Real Housewives’ Producer on Casting, Firing and Female Friendships

Summary

Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

Episode: Real Housewives’ Producer on Casting, Firing and Female Friendships

Guest: Paul Royston, reality TV producer
Air Date: March 12, 2026

---

Overview

This episode features Heather McDonald in lively conversation with Paul Royston, a reality TV producer with extensive experience on Real Housewives and other Bravo series. Together, they deliver an insider’s look into the casting process, difficult production decisions, behind-the-scenes drama, and the changing landscape of reality TV, with a focus on how friendships, fame, and actual life events shape what we see on screen. The discussion is filled with candid industry insights, juicy behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and thoughtful commentary on the evolving world of unscripted television.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Paul’s Background and Gay Awakening

• Heather introduces Paul as a first-time guest and recounts their earlier interactions ([00:00]-[01:12]).
• Paul credits Heather and her book as part of his coming out journey:

  “One of my favorite books was I'll Never Blue Ball in This Town Again … I was at home reading Heather McDonald’s books while the straight guys were at football.” ([01:28])

• Humorous exchange about Paul losing a job after attending a Chelsea Handler book signing, which led to a full-circle moment appearing on Juicy Scoop ([02:15]-[04:06]).
• Paul’s early career in entertainment: from E! News to reality TV, including his attempts to break into Hollywood from New Jersey/Philadelphia roots ([04:16]-[05:36]).

2. Breaking into Reality TV and Early Stories

• Transitioning from entertainment news to reality TV is depicted as much harder than expected.
• Paul’s first big production gig was on Vanderpump Rules, with vivid description of on-set life—like sweating “ass off” at Kentucky Castle for Jax and Brittany’s wedding ([08:35]-[10:33]).
• Behind the scenes at Vanderpump Rules:
  • Segment producing includes hustling talent, clearing locations, and scrambling when things go wrong ([10:33]).
  • Anecdote about “opening up” his relationship while in Kentucky for filming, which leads to personal drama! ([11:53]-[12:58])

3. Housewife Friendships, Scandals, and LGBTQ+ Representation

• Discussion of the controversy surrounding Jax and Brittany’s wedding pastor allegedly being anti-gay, confirming the couple are not homophobic but caught off guard by the controversy ([08:55]-[15:06]).
• Noting deeper issues with family attitudes in the South and how production teams/neighbors/families affect inclusivity on set ([15:21]-[15:58]).
• Tangent on casting diversity and authenticity: struggles producers face when balancing drama, real emotion, and “checking boxes” ([27:03])

4. Fame Cycle: Firing, Exile, and Comebacks (Vanderpump and Beyond)

• On the “cycle of life” for reality stars:

  “There's always a circle of life on these shows ... Stassi was thriving ... then she got canceled ... Jax, same thing. At some point he'll come back around.” ([16:59])

• Handling scandals: When domestic violence allegations emerged for James Kennedy, network and public distanced themselves ([17:48]-[19:51]).
• Conversation about reality star comebacks on shows like "The Traitors,” and the appeal of seeing stars in unexpected formats ([22:15]-[24:52]).

5. How Producers Shape Storylines and Handle Sensitive Information

• The Housewife-producer relationship is compared to a high-stakes trust game (like “The Traitors”):

  “Are you truly my friend, or are you Andy Cohen’s best friend?” ([29:42]-[30:16])

• Navigating off-limits secrets and turning gossip into storylines—sometimes producers facilitate rumors through other cast members to keep sources anonymous ([31:15]-[34:39]).
• Ethical dilemmas: balancing trust, friendship, and job responsibilities as a producer ([36:33]-[38:10]).

6. Casting: Insider Anecdotes, Friend Sabotage, and Audience Savvy

• Casting dilemmas:

  “I've had women ... refer a friend to the show, and the friend outs a family secret just to get cast—that’s so fucked.” ([36:45]-[38:04])

• The reality audience—and cast members—have become “too savvy,” leading to strategic alliances, leaks, and attempts to manipulate the narrative for screen time ([38:10]-[41:13]).

7. Production Woes: When Storylines Stall

• On Beverly Hills' slow seasons:

  “Sometimes at 50 you have a smooth year: Sorry, I'm not remodeling, not cheating, not divorcing... nothing eventful.” ([45:26]-[46:00])

• Problems when the cast lacks genuine friendships, leading to forced scenes and disjointed storylines ([46:13]-[48:49]).
• Praise for Amanda as a much-needed firestarter ([48:32]-[48:49]).

8. Shifts in Franchise Strategy and Spinoff Trends

• New cities, new formats:
  • Younger casts are trending, with focus shifting to new franchises to keep the brand fresh ([52:16]-[55:56]).
  • Discussion about “Ladies of London” and the value of spinoffs like “Ladies of ___” as formats more inclusive of non-traditional cast members ([56:15]-[59:16]).

9. Juicy Moments from “Ladies of London”

• The casting of a male anchor as a “friend of the women” and the successful inclusion of LGBTQ+ personalities—a possible new model ([58:41]-[59:16]).
• Fascination with dramatic cast exits, e.g., Dara leaving after being accused of being a “madam” and how modern context (Epstein) makes those storylines more loaded ([62:34]-[64:13]).
• Modern mean-girl tropes and influencer-generated drama as the new normal ([65:50]-[67:41]).

10. Security Issues and Flaunting Wealth

• Risks of showing wealth on TV:

  “They want you to show this, but then ... people are gonna say, ‘Well, we know they’re at BravoCon, so let’s go rob them.’” ([83:15])

• Strategies cast use to obscure their real-time locations and house exteriors, but how producers still want “aspirational homes” on camera ([83:02]-[86:14]).

11. The Truth about "Friend Of" Roles and What Makes Great TV

• Aspiration vs. authenticity: sometimes the most compelling stories come from producers or cast who aren’t living the high life ([86:22]-[88:39]).
• The importance of being entertaining over wealthy—proven by the enduring popularity of characters like Gina on OC or Brandi Glanville ([87:27]-[88:39]).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the producer-Housewife power dynamic:

  “The relationship between a housewife and her producer is The Traitors ... Can I trust you? Are you a traitor?”
  —Heather McDonald ([29:42])

• On manufactured drama:

  “Sometimes you have to push holes in a storyline and see what’s really going on ... You’re their friend, but also their co-worker. How do you navigate that balance?”
  —Paul Royston ([34:49]-[36:33])

• On authenticity:

  “I’d rather see someone live poorly but have an interesting story than act and buy all the fake shit and act like they’re rich.”
  —Heather McDonald ([86:11])

• On shifting franchise tropes:

  “Salt Lake [City] ... Monica’s house was a regular degular house. ... She was honest about it!”
  —Paul Royston ([88:50])

• On Housewives as escapism:

  “I’ve always viewed Housewives as escapism, but for me, I like where things are real ... real emotion, real things unfold.”
  —Paul Royston ([27:03])

---

Important Timestamps

• [01:28] Paul credits Heather with his gay awakening
• [04:24] Breaking into Hollywood/reality TV
• [08:54] Behind the scenes of Jax & Brittany’s wedding
• [13:33] Handling wedding drama and LGBTQ+ representation
• [16:59] Cycle of exile and comeback in reality TV
• [19:51] The dangers of scandal for reality stars
• [22:15] Sandoval, "The Traitors," and reality comebacks
• [29:42] Producer–Housewife relationship is “The Traitors”
• [36:46] Casting betrayals and friend sabotage
• [45:26] What happens when storylines stall
• [46:13] The challenge of casting affluent, connected women
• [56:15] “Ladies of London” and franchise evolution
• [62:34] Departure of "madam"-accused cast member
• [83:15] Security risks of showing wealth on reality TV
• [86:11] Authenticity versus affluence on Housewives franchises

---

Tone & Language

The episode features Heather’s signature playful, irreverent tone, with Paul matching her candor, humor, and inside knowledge. Language is casual, snarky, and peppered with pop culture references and gentle shade, but both speakers show deep affection for Bravo and its characters.

---

For New Listeners

This episode is ideal for reality TV junkies who crave an authentic, unfiltered look behind the camera. It blends real-life confessions, the ethics of storytelling, and hilarious stories about the chaos of producing reality drama. Whether you’re a Bravo superfan or just reality-curious, this is a must-listen for understanding why the Real Housewives phenomenon is as complex off screen as it is onscreen.

Transcript

[Heather McDonald]

Spring is here and there's a whole new way to chai at Starbucks that's made perfect for you. Choose your sweetness, dial it up or keep things light. Add a touch of pistachio, a hint of strawberry or vanilla, or make it a spring classic with lavender. Because this season there's endless ways to chai at Starbucks. Heather McDonald has got the juicest scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, juicy Mrs. Scoot is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales For real life, Mr. Segment, serial data and Serial Sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, Listen up. Whoop, whoop. Hannah McDonald, juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. So excited to have a first time Juicy Scoop guest, Paul Royston. He is a delight. He is adorable. But more importantly, his career has been producing real housewife shows in the reality world. And we met many years ago.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And then I rediscovered your cute face telling juicy stories on TikTok. And I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for coming.

[Paul Royston]

I'm honored to be here. I was like, before I start, I had to tell you, you are a part of, like, my gay awakening because love it.

[Heather McDonald]

Nothing could be more flattering.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, I was gonna say, I hope you appreciate this. When growing up, like, one of my favorite books was I'll never blue ball in this town again.

[Heather McDonald]

Really? Yes.

[Paul Royston]

You read it? Absolutely, I did.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my God, that is so nice.

[Paul Royston]

And I wasn't out then, but I'm like, hello. I mean, I'm reading your book and like, you know, the straight guys are like, we're going to the football game in high school. I'm like, I'm at home reading Heather McDonald's books. That's amazing. I love that.

[Heather McDonald]

Yes.

[Paul Royston]

So you were a part of my coming out journey, so thank you for that.

[Heather McDonald]

I always love it. I always love it when a cute guy comes up to me at a show and is like, my mom and I used to watch. And I'm like. And I'm like, I hope that mom knew.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, 100%.

[Heather McDonald]

Your son was 13 and staying up late to watch Chelsea lately. And especially loving Heather MacDonald. You have a fabulous gay son. There you go.

[Paul Royston]

That was our whole environment in our house. And I was like, you literally commented on one of my reels when I went to go see Chelsea at her book signing. And I got fired from my job at the time because Chelsea gave my brother a shout out on the show.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, wait, I remember this whole story.

[Paul Royston]

You commented on it and you're like, I wish I would have known because I would have given you like a shout. I would have said something like, on the show. Yeah. I got fired from my job because I called out, rightfully so, to do this and somebody saw the picture and I got fired from it.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, wait, so you had a job? What was the job?

[Paul Royston]

I worked at the Phillies in Philadelphia. The Phillies, if anybody knows that, the baseball team. And I worked like, I think people know the Phillies. I was like, I don't know if your audience. I'm like, you know, the gays. Hey, we're. It's the Phillies. It's the, you know, baseball.

[Heather McDonald]

There's a small baseball team called the Phillies.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Okay.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

And I once worked for them and I worked like pitch em and tip em in like the fun plex where like the kids would go in there. And I'm like. So I called out one day and

[Heather McDonald]

some saying I'm sick.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. I just, I don't even. To go do this book signing at the Philadelphia Free Library with my mom and my brother.

[Heather McDonald]

Okay.

[Paul Royston]

And my brother, we got interviewed and the interviewer from the Philadelphia Inquirer was like, how is like your son, who's 16 and your other son 13, like, love Chelsea Lately as a mom, like, you let them stay up and watch it. And that was like the article. Right? Like, so, so scandalous. And it got out there. And then Chelsea gave my brother a shout out on the show at the time. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And I remember that episode. Yes.

[Paul Royston]

And people found out about it and they were like, well, you weren't out. And I'm like, what? So a drunken Delco mom got crazy and ran into the Funplex that day. Like, what really could I have been doing differently that I could not miss this opportunity? Right. Like, so. Yeah, I got fired for that moment. So.

[Heather McDonald]

And what a full circle moment.

[Paul Royston]

And now I'm here on Juicy Scoop. I'm honored. So amazing. Yes. Thank you for having me.

[Heather McDonald]

So let's just get a little history about you. Yeah. After you lost your job.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, I've come a long way.

[Heather McDonald]

Did you then go on to college?

[Paul Royston]

Yes. I went to Temple University in Philadelphia, so I stayed there. I grew up in New Jersey.

[Heather McDonald]

And how did you end up in the reality world?

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. So I grew up, like, watching you on Chelsea Lately. I loved the E. News era of E. So I tried to finesse my way any way possible, where I was like, I need to get out of New Jersey and Philadelphia and I need to get to Hollywood. So my first job was working for E. On the Live from the Red Carpet show. And then I was like, okay, I'm finessing my way into the newsroom that's a couple floors above. Cause I've always grown up watching it. I grew up with like the Ryan Seacrest, the Juliana Rancic. Yeah. And it was like such a time. I mean, you know, you literally were there. Yeah. And I'm sad because I missed like the Wilshire building, which I know was where you guys were at.

[Heather McDonald]

It was just such a. Yes. And it was always just where it was at. No, we weren't at the Wilshire building. I would go there for other things. We were at. We were at a building that we shared with Hulu. And we're like, hulu? Like that's never going to make it. Like, we were such assholes about this. That was at Olympic and Bundy. And then she got her new daily. We moved to Universal.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, okay.

[Heather McDonald]

And we took over the studio that Conan had had.

[Paul Royston]

Oh.

[Heather McDonald]

And. And then it ended there. But like, which was better for me? Cause it was closer. But yes, that Wilshire building was where it was.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And the Fashion Police. And you know, we knew other people that worked on other shows and it was a golden era. Now it might come back because it's coming back with the golden life.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And which is interesting that they. The girls are going all going back to E. And. And I think that's a smart move because now E is no longer part of Peacock, So who knows? It could be a whole new. Yeah, well, that's kind of reinventing itself, I think.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Well, that's why at that time when I really was like, I want to work there. It was so lively. It was just everything was going on. And then I was at E News, I worked on like Daily Pop and I was like, I feel. Feel like this checks a box, but it doesn't fully check everything. Like, I loved pop culture. I loved like reality tv. And I was like, I need to get like my feet wet and I need to get in here. And I thought being like young and like being in tv, the jump from entertainment news is gonna be so easy to get into reality tv. And then like I left that job at a short stint on like this Lindsay Lohan post production show for her like short lived Grease show, whatever. Oh my God.

[Heather McDonald]

I just talked about that the other day about she had a beach club.

[Paul Royston]

Right. It was like very short lived, no good promotion. And it was a one season wonder.

[Heather McDonald]

I wait, so she moves to Greece or she had. They just gave her a beach club. They just. They thought you could be like Lisa Vanderpump but with a beach club.

[Paul Royston]

Essentially, the idea, yeah, it was like, let's do a Vanderpump Rule.

[Heather McDonald]

There's drama and someone misses their. Their shift or didn't fill the champagne bucket. Yeah, okay, I remember that.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. You know, big like that. So I had this, like, you know, gig to work on, like a post clip show to promote it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

And it was like six weeks. And then after that, it was like crickets. Like, I didn't work on anything. Cause I was like, oh, my gosh. I have no. Like, you have to start over, you know, working from entertainment news to get into the reality TV world. So I'm just like, okay, this is more of a hustle than I really thought it was going to be. So months go by, and my first reality TV credit was Vanderpump Rules.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, my gosh. Wait, you know what? Let's jump to Vanderpump Rules. It's not. Wasn't my original order. This article just came out. Jax Taylor, formerly of Vanderpump Rules in the Valley, and Brittany Cartwright have reached a custody deal with alcohol restrictions. We're all rooting for Britney always. And they're coming back with the Valley. And Lala and she are good friends. I'm good friends with Lala. Lala has said Brittany's doing great and doing it, you know, And I did not stop following Jax. Has he disappeared off of Instagram? I feel like we have not seen him.

[Paul Royston]

I was gonna say it's been very quiet from what I've seen and, like, things that have come out. But I always laugh. Cause I feel like he is who. Like, what you see on the show is who he is in real life. Like, the first time that. That season that I worked on, it was the season that they got married.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Royston]

And I was like, you know, oh, I'm gonna go on like, all these fabulous trips and it's gonna be like, you know, I don't know, like the beach or some. Something exotic. And I got flown to the Kentucky Castle for my first. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, this is.

[Heather McDonald]

And how was that?

[Paul Royston]

I mean, so you.

[Heather McDonald]

So that was their wedding?

[Paul Royston]

Yes, that was their wedding.

[Heather McDonald]

I do remember there was some controversy about the wedding that caused. That contributed to the cancellation of them. And I believe them getting asked to leave the show, which was that their pastor had a. Was outspoken about maybe not being as accepting of gay people being married and being Part of the church. That's what I recall.

[Paul Royston]

I remember that. And the craziest thing was that the week that we were there doing it, it was Lexington pride. I'm like, I didn't even know Lexington, like, had a pride. And I remember I went out with one of my crew members. But

[Heather McDonald]

was it a good pride? Was it fun?

[Paul Royston]

Did you guys have fun? I mean, we're gonna support, you know, the community. But is it like West Hollywood where they go all out? No, not necessarily, but I. I remember just the irony of that happening with, like, the family and, you know, all the things with the pastor. And then I'm like, we're here, and this is Lexington pride.

[Heather McDonald]

But no, didn't they. Then they didn't have the pastor, right?

[Paul Royston]

They didn't. They decided they had Lance Bass then. Yes. Cause Lance, that was the big thing. Like, he came in that season. He was at the wedding. But I remember now that you're saying it, that was, like, a thing that came out where, like, everybody was like, do they do it? Do they move forward with this person? Like, what?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paul Royston]

But, yeah, I mean, was the wedding fun? Yeah, Yeah. I mean, like, you know, you go into these shows, and you think, like, you're gonna be, like, a part of it or, like, get to enjoy it. And, I mean, you're sweating your ass off. I'm like, my armpits are sweating. I got ass cracks wet. Like, you know, I'm here doing this, and you're watching it from above, and you're like, okay, it looks beautiful, but, you know, you're not in the midst.

[Heather McDonald]

So in that time, your job, you are, like, what, Hustling the talent, taking notes on the scenes. Like, what is it like to be a reality show producer?

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. So for that, I was a segment producer. So, like, there's, you know, so many. There's you Got Talent. Segment field. For this particular show, I was a segment producer. And, you know, what you do is usually clear location. So I remember, like, that first time on Vanderpump Rules. I, like, it was my first location, and we did it at El Compadre. And I remember they were like, you know, the crew. The crew showed up at the wrong location. Like, what are we gonna do? We gotta scramble. And, like, you know, this is my first one. You're like, shit, what do I do? Like, so it's things like that first segment where it's like, you know, you gotta make sure that, like, the crew's in there, they're getting, you know, everything set up. You Know, the talent's good and stuff. But for the Kentucky Castle, there wasn't really much for me to do at that point because I already, you know, I had a supervising segment producer and actual segment producer above me. And then I was kind of bottom of the food chain. But I remember, you know, just kind of going along with the flow and, like, just seeing what was happening. But I always laugh because that was, like, the first time that I tried to open up my relationship when I went on Vanderpump Rules.

[Heather McDonald]

What do you mean open up?

[Paul Royston]

Meaning, like, I was with my boyfriend

[Heather McDonald]

at the time, and you were like, let's have an open relationship. Like, we could fool around with other people.

[Paul Royston]

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So. And I remember I was, like, not really into it, but I'm like, okay. You know, as a gay, I feel like it's a rite of passage that you need to do this, right? Like, let's do it. So I ended up going on Grindr. You know, you're in this hotel room by yourself, and I start talking to this guy, and this guy's very, like, aggressive, and he's asking about, like, my boyfriend at the time. And I ended find to come out that he ended up finding my boyfriend that I was dating. And my boyfriend and him at the time were having, like, a secret thing on the side because this guy found me on social media while I was in Kentucky, and him and my boyfriend had, like, this little, like, affair, like, a little tryst, like, sexting, like, social, while I was in Kentucky for this. So I'm like, yeah, just, like, the irony of, like, the gay whole pastor thing to tie it back. I'm like, this was how my journey went. Because I'm like, you know, it gets lonely when you're on set sometimes and you're in the field. And I was younger.

[Heather McDonald]

They are broken up now. We all watched it from home. And you want to root for them. I liked them both separately and everything. But the girl saw. Poor Britney, saw the whole experience happen when he slept with the other girl, Faith, and it all came out and, you know, rot in hell. And so, you know, is there. Was there any, like. Any now that it's over with anybody being, like, rolling their eyes at this wedding or was everybody like, bells on. This marriage is gonna last forever?

[Paul Royston]

I mean, I feel like I remember the consensus of, like, the cast, like, the. The peers, like, you know, they're. Cause I remember there was one time when I worked with. We were doing something at Hyde on Sunset, and I was segment producer for it, and Jax came in and it was like, you know, man, everyone thinks that, you know, we're against gay people. Like, I love gay people. There's gay people in my wedding. And I'm like, I love that he's saying it to, like, the one gay guy that's on the crew, and it's me. And I'm just like, yeah, like, you know, I totally see it. You know, I never got any vibes that they were homophobe, you know, like, they're not.

[Heather McDonald]

No, absolutely not. I was just, oh, hey, this is my pastor. And nobody bothered to go. Let me just make sure that, you know, I could see why you didn't. A lot of people that aren't famous that are getting married. I was at a wedding and it was like a family, whatever, adjacent wedding, and the pastor literally was saying kind of very non inclusive stuff.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And some of the other, like. Like, we all had tension because we're all like, I'm bothered, but then also I'm like, I know my kids are gonna be bothered. I know the cousins are gonna be bothered, like. And then we're all like, this is. What are you supposed to do?

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I don't even think that the bride and groom, like, thought about the whole thing of what that could be like.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So young people getting married, you know, it's an important thing. Like, just make sure that you're. Because I don't think it had. No, of course. I don't think either one of them are at all homophobic at all. No, definitely not.

[Paul Royston]

And I mean, I think it's public knowledge because the mom was very, like, Britney's mom on the show was like, are you gay? Like, I think she, like, schooled Jax on one of the episodes. Do you remember that?

[Heather McDonald]

Where she was, like, asked Jax if he was gay?

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Remember when Jax had, like, the older

[Heather McDonald]

man that he worked with or lived

[Paul Royston]

with, and that came up at one point? And I remember, like, while we were filming, you know, there was issue because it was Lexington Pride. I remember some people of her family, like, didn't want to film at certain places because of it being so close to the Gay Pride festival. So, I mean, and when I think about that, I just. When you're there in Lexington, I mean, in Kentucky, I'm like, can you. I mean, you can't fault. You can fault these people for thinking that way, but, like, you can't blame her, right, that her family's like that. Because, I mean, when you look around, you're like, yeah, it makes sense. Why These people cannot be so open and understanding.

[Heather McDonald]

Right. And you can't control everybody that goes to your wedding or everyone that's in your family or what they put on their front lawn. You know what I mean? It's just like. Yeah, I totally see that. But it sounds like she'll be thriving and. Yeah, I don't know. I hope Jax is doing better. I don't know what he is doing. I mean, I thought maybe he. Maybe he'll be coming back and doing appearance. It doesn't sound like he's in this season at all.

[Paul Royston]

That's what it sounded like to me, too. Like that he's just completely out, not in the picture, and it's just.

[Heather McDonald]

And not filming or anything. Yeah, but I don't think that will. Hopefully, that won't be forever, because, you know, I'm like, thinking if he does get it together and maybe she has a boyfriend and he comes and is supportive of the boyfriend hanging out with Cruz, and then they could move him back in. I mean, he is just a very entertaining person to watch.

[Paul Royston]

Well, there's also something.

[Heather McDonald]

Even when he's, you know. Yeah. Like, it's just like. Yeah. You just can't believe he's just such a character, you know?

[Paul Royston]

Well, there's always something funny. I mean, I guess it's not funny, but to me, it's like there's always, like, a circle of life on these shows. Right. Like, Stassi, she was Thrive. Like that season that I worked on Thriving, you know, she had the. I remember saying to her, like, oh, my gosh, you're having the best year ever. Like, you know, she got engaged, she had the book tour, she was getting a spinoff, I think, or, like, podcast series or something, and then she ended up getting canceled. Right. And then it kind of just completely askew. And then we didn't see her for a little bit, and then now she's kind of back up, and it's like taking accountability. She's moved forward, I think, you know, she's apologized for it. Jax, I feel like the same thing. Like, we saw a really dark side of him. Things kind of hit rock bottom, and then I feel like now he's gonna kind of disappear, and then at some point, he'll come back around.

[Heather McDonald]

What do you think about James Kennedy? Do you think we'll hear from him again?

[Paul Royston]

I. The last thing that I saw, what was the. There was a big thing that happened with.

[Heather McDonald]

He was with his girlfriend, and there was an account that there was a domestic violence call, and she. He was not charged with anything formally. And she. She did not press charges. They did break up.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

But the account that was told to the cop, which got out to the press, was enough to make, I think, everybody just be, like, kind of like there's too many other things. His relationship with Kristen Doughty. There were other stories with Raquel, Rachel. Raquel, and. And so, you know, and he was really out of height of a thing. Yeah, I saw him the night that that happened, and he was. Is Kathy Hilton's, like, Christmas party through direct.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And he was, you know, very excited about all the. All the opportunities coming up. He's pitching shows. He's doing this. The DJ career is popping. Invited us to. You know, he had, like, a residency. I mean, I don't. I don't. He's another one that. I don't know if I stopped following him or I don't think.

[Paul Royston]

I haven't seen him.

[Heather McDonald]

I just don't see it, like, in the cycle of things, you know? And.

[Paul Royston]

Well, see, that's the thing, too, is, like, you're hot. You're such a hot commodity. That's why I always think it's so interesting. It's like when you're popping and, like, you are, you know, in thriving on one reality show or an unscripted project, like, people are gonna find ways to, like, pimp you out in other ways, Right? Like, you're gonna get the podcast deal, you're gonna get a spinoff series. So I always just think it's so interesting how something. I mean, granted, domestic violence is a very serious thing, but, like, you know, when you were at that height of it, you know, you said that he's pitching all these shows. You get so much momentum, but then as soon as one thing goes wrong, it's like you're forgotten about Jax. We don't see James Kennedy. Same thing. It's just like, you go completely off the radar, and no one. No one will touch you.

[Heather McDonald]

This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Jones Road Beauty. When I don't have to do a full face of makeup, I still am not comfortable going out with nothing on. And that is why I love this Jones Road Beauty balm. I can put it over my makeup, like I'm doing right now, to give me just that really natural golden hour glow. But also when I just am not gonna do the full makeup thing, but I want a little something, I put that on. People are like, did you get a facial? What laser are you using? It is so easy. You don't need any brushes and it just feels natural. It just feels like you're absolutely not wearing any makeup at all. And I absolutely love it. I also want to tell you about they just launched an eyeshadow stick which is already a staple that I absolutely love using. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time our Juicy Scoopers are getting a free shimmer face oil on their first purchase. When they use code Juicy Scoop at checkout. Just go to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Juicy Scoop at checkout. After you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support Juicy Scoop and tell them Heather McDonald's sent you. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Quince. So my sister Shannon and I were talking about her upcoming trip and she's like I just want some cool linen clothes. Like I want to look like a chic traveling gal walking the earth. Okay. And I'm like, well let me tell you, you know where to go girl. Because we both shop there. Quints. And I absolutely love it because she went there and she got everything she needed because they do use premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk. She's got a great like long skirt that's just goes with everything. She's even wearing it to court. Lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters perfect for the changing seasons. They have it all right now. Go to quince.com 2c4 free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q U I n c e.com juicy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com juicy what do you think about Tom Sandoval? He's still hanging on for dear life.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, I think they're. Because you know what I think the best thing was he was just on

[Heather McDonald]

watch for him's live.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, Traders was the best thing for him.

[Heather McDonald]

Totally.

[Paul Royston]

Because I think when you get out of like when you see people like Lisa Rinna on Traders.

[Heather McDonald]

Great.

[Paul Royston]

You know what I mean? There's something Candace on Traders like you get to see them in a different light than being in that type of pressure cooker and environment and I feel like it get you get to see more of like a silly side or maybe not a side where you're like going in and you're like oh, I got my boxing Gloves on, bitch. Like, we're going at it.

[Heather McDonald]

The Traders is such a weird, simple, yet fast Great.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know why. It's. It's just such a great. It's so great. And there's House of Villains and things like that, but it's just not for me hitting like the Traitors. I hope that people are thinking of other type of shows like that. Yeah, that can really make it so fun for these former big reality stars to still kind of stay relevant and show what made them famous. Like, I would like to see Jax or James Kennedy on the Traitors. Yeah, like, to me, that would be interesting.

[Paul Royston]

I'm so happy you're saying that because I just met with somebody who was a network exec and I was saying how I love an underdog, like a one season wonder or somebody who just kind of fell off and you like to see them kind of pop back up. And I always am trying to find, you know, being in the unscripted world, I'm always like, how can you find these type of people who maybe like haven't had big momentum, but you want to see how they would be in a different format. Like kind of what we're talking about. And the problem is is, you know, people are like, well, they have the traitors. That's where these people who kind of, you know, go into oblivion kind of can revamp their career. But I'm like, there's something different where I would love to see like you have these OG people like, you know, Teresa, Nene, you know, people who are.

[Heather McDonald]

Bethany, what do you think about just doing like a traitors or type of traitors? For me, I don't watch the Challenge and the Survivors anymore.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I get that they mix them all up. And also that might make it fun. Cause it was like, oh, the Housewives are gonna have. And when they're like, the Housewives are gonna have each other's back, I'm like, when they've never had each other's back, why would they have each other's back from a different even franchise or season? Like if they can't have their own cities back, like, who. But like, for me, I would rather, I think it would be more, it would be fun just to see it with Bravo. Should be working on shows like a Traitors, but just for Bravo. Past talent.

[Paul Royston]

Well, because I think there's a lot like these one season wonders that go on Housewives, right? Like, where are they? You know, I want to know what they're doing. Like, I want to See, if they're down and out and they're losing paychecks and they can't, you know, live the same life that they used to. Like, those are the type of people that I'm like, oh, it'd be really interesting. You see the people who have built an entire career off of it, like Anini or Teresa or Bethany, like I was saying. And then you see the people who literally have no momentum, they have no star power, and they haven't had that same kind of luck. So I'm always like, oh, right.

[Heather McDonald]

But then. But then there'll be something negative that follows them forever. Like, sadly, on Real Housewives of oc, Lynn Curtin's daughter is really struggled, and some buddy with an iPhone found her. And. And, you know, and then I think that person. God bless them. But I also feel like that could be a little unsavory. Like, she keeps going back to her and Lancaster.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And being like, well, we're trying to get you some money. And I'm like, okay, spend. So you're collecting the money, whoever's doing the phone, and then we're supposed to believe you're giving it to Lynn Curtin's daughter to stay in this gross hotel, like, the whole thing. And then people are like, no, Lynn's trying to help her. And then she ended up doing an interview. And, you know, when she tells her story, she's like, I was 15 or sister. We were, like, 15, 16 when the show started. On the show, we were actively drinking. They show that in the original episode, we get evicted. The same week that my mom is getting. Getting a facelift, they end up getting divorced. It's just. Yeah. Of course, that is such a vulnerable time for a teenager. And at that time, there wasn't social media, but they were also, like, one of two shows, like, so of this. So there was a lot more eyes on the show.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And then to have it go and be able to repeat over and over while she's down and out and struggling with addiction. I mean, that's the part where it's like.

[Paul Royston]

I know. Well, that's the thing, right? Like, do viewers really want to watch that?

[Heather McDonald]

Like, no. No. Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

And that's kind of like the Mary Cosby of it all with Salt Lake City, you know, with people talking about, like, oh, is it too soon for people to pick up cameras and start putting them in your face when you're going through something as serious as that? I've always viewed Housewives as, like, escapism. But then, for me, I like you know, where things are real. Because I think the big thing that I always say now is, like, on the casting side, you can see when people are coming in and they know, I gotta check this off the list. I gotta act this way, I gotta show up this way. I gotta flaunt this type of lifestyle, and when I know it's so tragic and dark. But, like, that is real life, right? Like, you're getting to see a real emotion. You're getting to see real things unfold. And that, to me, is kind of what I think.

[Heather McDonald]

It's a really hard thing, because as the talent, as Mary Crosby, there's two ways to look at it. One is, I'll just not share this and go mourn by myself, which sounds awful. Or I'll use this opportunity to shed a life on this epidemic and also be busy. You know, a lot of people after a tragedy, they want to go back to work. They want to, you know, because they're like, I don't want to just be left at home to, like, wallow in my bed. Like, I need to, like, get up and do other things. So, I mean, it's one of those things I don't think anyone can judge. And as long as she wants to do it and is on board to do it, then I think it's, you know, it's up. If she's gonna do it, then I don't think they should say, no, you can't, or you have to do it. You signed a contract, and I'm sure that it was a mutual agreement to share this part of her life.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think of, like, when I have worked as, like, a talent producer on these shows, like, I always felt conflicted in those moments. I mean, granted, nothing ever as serious as that, but when, you know, a housewife, like, comes to you and your job is to, like, build a relationship and really, like, you know, develop trust and understanding. It's very, like, conflicting, I feel, when they come to you because they know they can trust you. You're this outlet. You have all these cooks in the kitchen, and they're like, you're the one person that I can go to and divulge this information. And sometimes, you know, it's your job to, like, navigate. Okay, do we put this on camera? Do we show this to the world? Or do I respect this person's wishes? You know, telling me, hey, this is between me and you. I'm just trying to, like, you know, I feel like.

[Heather McDonald]

I feel like the relationship. The relationship between a housewife and Her Real Housewife producer is the Traitors. It's basically the Traitors. Can I trust you? Are you a traitor? Are you faithful? Are you truly?

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's a test. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Are you truly my friend as my producer, or are you really Annie Cohen's best friend? Like, yeah, what do you like? That's such an interesting position to be in. And I've always. I've always thought a great scripted show would be something fictional, like Housewives.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Behind the scenes. And the star would be a producer.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Who's gets. Because every season could be, like, a different thing, and they get caught into it.

[Paul Royston]

And I always believe if, like, I mean, I don't know how much the networks would want the cameras to really showcase those things. But, like, the casting part of it, the talent producing, like, that's a series in itself. Right? Like, I mean, how conflicting of is it, you know, if somebody's sitting there saying, like, hey, I. You know, I know this woman's really struggling. You know, her husband's cheating on her. I know this is happening. You know, she's my best friend. I don't want to put that out there. She's telling me this now, and I'm sitting there like, okay, I really love this person who I've developed a relationship with, but if she says this and that other cast mate is gonna know that it was her that said it. Right. Cause she's the only one that's privy to it. And then that demise is their friendship, then that comes on me that I betrayed someone. It's just, like, so messy now in

[Heather McDonald]

protecting you and your position. So hypothetically. Yeah, hypothetically, this is the situation. Maybe not you.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

But would other producers figure out a way to get that juicy information out there without jeopardizing the relationship where the one housewife is like, I can't believe you told. Like, I. I think, you know, we've seen it, like, with New Jersey, where it would be. All of a sudden, Teresa would go, well, I heard a rumor that. What was the girl's. What was the.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, Jackie Goldschneider. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

It's not in the photo. I heard that Jackie's. You know, her.

[Paul Royston]

Evan was.

[Heather McDonald]

Evan was messing around at the gym.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Which I'm like, at the gym. I immediately thought, this is a double juicy scoop. Because I just thought, like, gay shit, right? You're at a gym. I didn't think cruising or something. I didn't think hitting on a girl or helping her do her squats. I just immediately thought, like, you know, Old school.

[Paul Royston]

You're on Grindr in a hotel room in Kentucky.

[Heather McDonald]

The sauna is like, okay. Like, I don't know what happened. So I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe you're saying that. Well, it was just a rumor. Well, where did the rumor start? You know? And then sometimes as a cast member, you're like, okay, so now to get the story off of you, or you have no storyline at any moment. So I kind of want to know what you guys think as that at any moment, I go to the dinner party. I've been on the show for five years. It's the Real Housewives of, you know, Westlake Village. And I go and I sit down and I'm like, I mean, I heard a rumor that Sasha's husband was seen with, like, a really young gay guy in Puerto Vallarta.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. So that you would most likely have already, like, if you're a talent producer, you're already talking to them about, like, hey, we're gonna try to get this scene with you here, xyz, with this amount of people, whatever. So at that point, if they know that they're going into that scene, they're gonna be like, oh, in their mind, it's gonna be like, am I gonna bring this up then, right? Is this gonna be the moment that I'm gonna unfold and drop that bomb?

[Heather McDonald]

Okay, so now here's the hypothetical. Yeah, I go do that. Okay? Tell another girl that. That this other person who's already on the show, I had a rumor he has a little gay boyfriend, okay? They were in Puerto Vallarta together. And that girl kind of knows it's true, okay? But she's like, my friend is fine with him having a secret gay lover, but this would destroy her family, the conservative relatives. She wants to stay married. The little gay lover does her hair extensions for free. She doesn't want this.

[Paul Royston]

That's not that bad. I was gonna say. She might like that.

[Heather McDonald]

She doesn't want this out there. She does not care. She doesn't wanna fuck the husband. She's glad he's gay, like, whatever, but she doesn't wanna out this out there. And so then that girl goes, bravo, Bravo. Fucking bravo. Excuse me. And she gets up and she goes to you guys and she's like, cut, cut.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Do not put that in now. What do you do now?

[Paul Royston]

See, well, they're airing that shit because that's on camera. So she's already. If you're blowing up and you're making like it, then now they're going to die. Yeah. Now they're div.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

If I'm somebody who they're. They're just telling me yeah. On the phone and they're like, you know, kind of giving me tidbits. That's for me to say, okay, is this something we can push forward? Is this something that feels like there's holes in it? It's not adding up. Because sometimes also, like, you gotta remember if you're on camera and, like, you're watching a wife and a husband and their chemistry is completely fucked, and they're not, like, intimate or they're not seeing each other, you're gonna be like, okay, we're a producer. Like, we're gonna start pushing holes in this and seeing what's going on here. But if on camera, you're showing up, making it look like it's the best thing in the world, but somebody knows something that the producers don't know, then that opens up a whole nother can of worms. For that example, though, you're seeing that. So you're gonna push that further, right? Like, you're gonna dive in and now get to the bottom of it. If you're coming in saying, bravo, Bravo,

[Heather McDonald]

don't you wish that was a real storyline? That's so good.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure that. Honestly, I'm sure that there has been. That we just haven't seen it. I mean, there's been a couple questionable relationships on that show and throughout the cities. But, yeah, I mean, for me, it's just hard. Like, I always felt, like, so empathetic. Cause I'm like, oh, I love these women. They show up, they give us their all. For the most part, a majority of them, they're coming in, they know it's a paycheck. They're dedicated to it for the most part. And you know when they start to feel like you're their outlet. Because if they tell XYZ on the show, they know it's gonna become a storyline. So it's like that hard balance where I'm like, oh, you're their friend. But then you're also like, you know, their co worker. And it's like, how do you navigate that balance of not putting their shit out there and losing their trust? The whole job for that particular role is building trust within somebody. Right field producers.

[Heather McDonald]

How does someone. Like, is there a training process for what you do?

[Paul Royston]

No, no, there isn't. Somebody who's like, you're getting thrown into the wall. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. You just kind of figure it out and you kind of develop your own style.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, I've gone through field producing, segment producing, casting, producing, development, producing all of the above. And I feel like you never get a full, like, okay, let's have a training manual that you're not. No, you're getting thrown into it. I mean, even casting, right. I mean, there's things where I've had women someone say, hypothetically, is telling me. I mean, I put this out on social media, but one of the shows I was casting for, you know, a woman was referring her friend to come on the show, and this woman told me, like, hey, one of my children is not my husband's biological child. But, you know, this is something that we're not going to talk about. It's just off, you know, camera. She referred a friend, and her friend is now putting that information out there to try to get on the show and make it a storyline. I'm like, that is so fucked. Because that is like your girl, that's your best friend. Right? So I'm like, it just examples like that. Like, you know, people know what they're doing. It's very hard to navigate that.

[Heather McDonald]

But so the friend was like, I have this nugget.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I'm jealous of my friend who's a regular on the show, and I want to get on it. So if you have me on it, I will throw this nugget bomb at a luncheon.

[Paul Royston]

Or if, like, you know, this is going to be. I'm letting you know this because maybe this could be a future story that could unfold. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

So is that a problem too? In that the audience, after 20 years who also might want to be cast members, have become so savvy and sophisticated that they're coming and they're, whatever, being secret bloggers, Like Monica Von Te.

[Paul Royston]

What was that reality?

[Heather McDonald]

Von Teal Von Te on Real House of Salt Lake City. And like, you know, maneuvering their way into it or giving info to secret bloggers or they're the secret blogger or.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Does that make it harder or better at this point? Does that help storyline that we're in this situation?

[Paul Royston]

Does it? I mean, I personally don't like it because it's been done so much now. Like, I'm like, if you're gonna do, like, it's like the binder of at the reunions. It's like, if you're gonna come here, like, give me Kenya more scepter at least, you know, like, that was something different. Like now I hate the same song and dance repeating.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

So I'M like, listen, I'm not gonna stop someone's hustle and get their bag. Like, if you to come on the show, just be quicker and savvy about it. If you're going to do something we've already seen. No, that's boring. Like, I had an. You know, we were casting for a show and one of the women found out one of the girls in town was on the show. She gets my number. Somehow, being a casting producer, I guess it's just now out there and she's like, lambasting this cast member on the show, saying, if you want to know xyz, she's a fraud. She's. And to me, it's like, I get she's mad, but. And she probably thinks it's her way of getting on a show, but it's tasteless because I'm like, you're doing something that we've already seen. Like, you're badmouthing somebody saying they're a fraud, they cheat on their husband, they're a scammer. It's like, come up with something better. You know, like, I'm just like, give me something more.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, come up better than. Come up with something better than a grifting, cheater, gold digger. Because we already did that.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. And just kind of like telling the cast, are they a vampire? Yeah, like, give me something.

[Heather McDonald]

Give me something.

[Paul Royston]

Like, do they take their head off at night and replace, like, what, you know, order they, like, what are they doing? I just need something more than this. Like. And, yeah, I'm not mad at that. I think, like, if somebody's truly not forthcoming and they, you know, do have skeletons in the closet, you know what you're signing up for, too. That's a thing. Like, on these shows, I always say, like, look, if you're coming on these shows, you're doing it. I just said this recently. It's like, you know, I've talked to, like, a billionaire's wife on the show, like, to see if they would go on it. Like, if you really want to be on this type of show, you know what you're getting yourself into, you know what you're signing up for. And it's a huge platform. And I think people, whether they have money or not, they want to do it for the fame. And, you know, these people will sell other people down the river because they're like, well, I want my ticket. I want to get on the show. So I always think the behind the scenes of all the casting stuff and just the trying to get on the show and the tactics that to me is just so interesting because you have to be so calculated to do that kind of stuff. So it's just so. It's crazy to me.

[Heather McDonald]

You guys know I'm so busy, but there's nothing that bothers me more than when I open up the fridge and I want to cook something at home, I want to make my lunch and I don't have anything because I didn't go grocery shopping and I don't like going grocery shopping. And that is what I love about Thrive. Thrive Market is a membership based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are simply just hop on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship and save, free gifts, and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any of the products they carry. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. There's no trade offs for yummy food, so if your kids want Mac and cheese, if they want some sugary snacks, they have those versions that are better with less sugar, more nutrition. Ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member? Join Thrive Market with my link thrive market.com juicy scoop for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift this episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Olipop. Oh my God. This is definitely one of my favorite flavors. It's classic root beer. I love Olipop because sometimes I need a treat and I want to drink something that's better for me than your typical soda. This is high fiber, low sugar. It is absolutely promoting a better digestive system. It is really doing so many things all at once and it's all beneficial to you. Get a free can of Olipop. Buy two cans of Olipop in store and we'll pay you back for one. Works on any flavor, any retailer. Drinkollipop.com Juicy Scoop Olipop is sold online at Drinkollipop.com as well as Amazon and available in the soda aisle and with the chilled beverages at thousands of retailers nationwide including Walmart, Target, Costco and Whole Foods. This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Acorns. So many people are focused on where their money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow and with the Acorns potential screen you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money even if all you've got is literally spare change. I absolutely love this. I think it's so important and so many people don't do this or they think they've got a lifetime ahead to start. This really helps. If you're not as financial savvy as you would hope to be, they do all of it for you. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus. Investment join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com juicyscoop or download the Acorns app to get started. Fate non client endorsement Compensation it provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers, accounts, age and investment settings does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorn's portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] JuiceScoop let's go and talk a little bit about one of the shows I'm watching right now, which is Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. This season has been a little criticized as being not very juicy, not very eventful. Yeah, a little bit. I will always watch these women. I'm always down. What do you do when just not a lot's happening with the cast amongst each other and also not a lot of exciting things are happening in the people's lives. I mean sometimes you have at 50 you have kind of a smooth year

[Paul Royston]

and this is about your life.

[Heather McDonald]

Sorry, I'm not remodeling my house. Sorry my mother has been cheating. My husband's not cheating. I'm not getting divorced. You know, my kids are fine.

[Paul Royston]

No my husband's gay. Secret lovers. Not adding hair extensions into my hair.

[Heather McDonald]

You know, we're not like literally I'm my other side career is non existent. I'm not doing Halloween 52 like Halloween 52. Like I'm still separated from Mauricio on the fourth year.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, I have strong opinions on this.

[Heather McDonald]

So let's hear.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So tell me so and meaning and so when you said like what do you do in those situations? This to me all comes back to casting. Right. This show is hard to cast. I've worked on this. I've cast it on this show before.

[Heather McDonald]

Beverly Hills particularly.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Okay. It's hard to cast because the caliber is these women need to check a Lot of boxes. You're in LA and Beverly Hills. You represent wealth, affluentness, entertainment. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Everyone's a little bit besides Sutton. Even I feel like Bose being that she was an executive. I mean, everybody on this cast throughout the years are like, either entertainment Hollywood or entertainment adjacent.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah, she. You know, I mean, perfect example. She's smart.

[Heather McDonald]

Which one? Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Paul Royston]

I mean, you come on the show and look, she's on a show with Jimmy Fallon now. She's building this whole brand. Like that, to me, is the calculation of being smart when you're on a platform like this. Right. I feel like it comes down to casting because we just gotta accept that the women of Beverly Hills, they're not friends. Like, they really aren't. Like, when you watch Salt Lake, you're like, these girls love each other. There's something there where they're connected. Right. I've been watching. I watch just as much as I work on it. I'm a consumer of it. And I was like, have the last three episodes just been, like, three girls filming in the Hamptons by themselves? And then every scene is like, someone just FaceTiming because the producers are like, okay, let's get a scene where it makes it look like you guys are communicating still.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

Cause it just feels so disjointed. Then I feel like Amanda's just in her house by herself and everybody hates her. And I'm like, what is going on? It just is like no one's connected at all. And I think that's what's really hard, because you want to have a boom moment. You want to have a Lisa Rinna or Garcelle. You want to have a Rachel Zone.

[Heather McDonald]

You stole my fucking house. Like, you know, like, you want to have.

[Paul Royston]

Well, you want to have the star power of what brings those type of women in. They're heavy hitters. They represent Beverly Hills. But when Rachel Zo doesn't know anybody in the cast and it feels disjointed, it's like, well, yeah, that's why nobody's. No fights are really happening. So I would say if I was a producer, now I'm having to deal with casting decision on that. Now it falls on me to be like, okay, what is the story? Right? What can we bring out of these women? What is actually happening? And it's how much those women are willing to go there and put out there. That's why I said, like, people are hating on Amanda. I kind of like her because I'm like.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, without Amanda, this channel would really be Struggling.

[Paul Royston]

I like a girl that comes in and is, like, just making people mad for just being them. Like, I love a delusional housewife. I love somebody who's all mana, manifestation, whatnot. But, yeah, without her, there would be nothing.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, but I do think it is interesting and relatable that, you know, at one time, you know, Mauricio and Kyle and PK And Dorit had this great foursome friendship that we saw. This was the couples, and this happens in life. Not only do one of them break up, but you all break up. But then Kyle and Mauricio are having their cake and eating it, too, and eating each other. I mean, they're just staying married, getting along, like, you know, half brother and sister or something. Like. And then people are just, like, getting mad that she's not filing or whatever. And I'm like, listen, she doesn't want to split up the houses.

[Paul Royston]

Why would she Doesn't. Yeah, why would she?

[Heather McDonald]

Why would he, when he can have another apartment, show up at all the houses, be good with the daughters, young women, and just go, hoo, hoo, hoo, and show up on the show and, like, laugh and. And she doesn't seem to care because she's probably been checked out for years, and now she bought a place in Tennessee.

[Paul Royston]

Listen, he's not getting divorced because he makes his rounds being married to her. He's been on Real housewives of Potomac. He's been on.

[Heather McDonald]

It's like, the best thing ever. And I just think you're like, yeah, you know? Yeah. Why. Why would you. I mean, I always said they're not going to get divorced until one of them truly falls in love with somebody else. And that lover partner is like, pull the trigger. This isn't working. Like, we're not doing this anymore. And that's why I think the whole, like, secretive love affair with Morgan Wade had to be a secretive love affair because they were getting divorced.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And, you know, and now she's just like, okay, well, I'll walk around and I'll talk about Dorit and PK which in real life, you would be talking about Dorit and PK with your friends.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, of course.

[Heather McDonald]

100. Your friends are your close friends going through divorce. Someone gets up from the table, and you're like, oh, do you like her new boyfriend? He wouldn't be for me. I mean, I'm. I live this life without cameras.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, that's what she would do. So it's like, oh, well, you shouldn't be talking about that. That's that is reality. And, like, if it's not juicy enough for you, I think it's. I think you can. What's good is that even though it's like a simple storyline, it's not, you stole my goddamn house. No one's going to rehab. But it is, like, I missed. It gives us people at home to go.

[Paul Royston]

Is.

[Heather McDonald]

Should Kyle shut the fuck up? Is Kyle actually being concerned for her friend, which I believe. Does she even, like, dorit at all? Should dorit be annoyed that they're talking about her or not?

[Paul Royston]

I mean, I just kind of feel like. Do. Like I'm over kind of the story. Like, I'm.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, I get why we get over the storyline, but that's where I feel like it's such a hard job, because as someone who loves it, as a fan, also makes it part of my content and talks about it, I all. I sympathize with the producers. I sympathize with the lady at home who's bored. I sympathize with the person who's living life who's like, again, I'm sorry. It's my life. Do you want me to create something? Do you want me to file for divorce when I really don't want to? It would not serve me at this time in my Life. Maybe in two years I will. Maybe in 10 years I will. Maybe I never will. Maybe we'll be grandparents together and call it a fucking day. I don't know.

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's why I think it's such a tricky show, right? Because I think if you lose, I'm like, looking back and I'm like, going through each one. I'm like, well, so if you lose Kyle. Kyle. You can't lose Kyle. Cause at this point, it would. It would feel like nothing is there, Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Paul Royston]

It would just feel empty. But the thing is now what I realized over time and just the way that the housewives has been, you know, moving forward is that they want to skew younger. Because when you look at it now, Sutton, she's not married. She doesn't have her kids really on the show. I mean, who else is on it? Now you have Amanda, who fits what they are looking for because she's got

[Heather McDonald]

younger kids and she's like, 40.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You see more of that. Um, Erica, you don't see. She has. Her kid's never been on the show. She's not married. You don't even see the guy that she's dating. Dorit. Her kids are in it, but she's not married. Anymore. Rachel Zo.

[Heather McDonald]

I just realized we haven't seen the kids in it this season. I don't know if that's something they agreed together.

[Paul Royston]

I haven't really seen. I don't think she talks about them,

[Heather McDonald]

but I feel like we don't see them. Not that we need to see them, but, you know.

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's the thing is that with these shows it's like, well, then what is it? It's just that they don't have real. Like when you fall in love with housewives, it's because you had access inside their home. You got to see their day to day, waking up, taking the kids. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I remember one of the first years with Kyle, and when I had Kyle on my show, I remember I said this and at the time, you know, I had little kids and I just remember she's putting Portia to sleep, who's like two and a half. And when you have a little kid like that, you know, they lay down with me, mommy, and she's having a party. She wants to get back to the party. And so she's like laying there and she's like rolling out of the bed down the hallway so that the kid doesn't wake up. And that's funny and like, so relatable.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

You know what I mean? It's like.

[Paul Royston]

And the problem is, is when the kids start not being on the show anymore, you're. I mean, I'm not a mom or a woman, so I can't speak on it. But you could. I mean, your life changes. Like you're, you're not at home as much. Maybe you're not as involved in those type of day to day things. So what do you have going on in your life? Well, I, you know, not much. So it's like, yeah, how, how hard is that for a producer to try to pull those things out of it? Right. I mean, I just feel like for this particular city, it's been kind of the same storyline.

[Heather McDonald]

Do you think, like the merging of like, like I feel like for the, for the good cities that are like, the city's also a character like New York and Beverly Hills, where you just won't get tired of it because you see these beautiful, like, do you think there'll ever be a time where they kind of just do Beverly Hills and they keep OGs and women that age and then it's like Beverly Hills 2.0.

[Paul Royston]

I don't know. I think the route that they're gonna go forward more is new cities, new cities. Because I think you get. It's less money for the women.

[Heather McDonald]

So everyone's starting off at a lower pay rate.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Less money. And it's a way to skew younger in terms of getting to see, you know. You know Kyle. And you love Kyle. Cause you grew up watching her. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Paul Royston]

So it's like. I've watched her kids grow up. When you see Portia's, like, 21 years old, taking shots at the bar now, I'm like. You're like, oh, my gosh. I remember when she was in a diaper on the show. Right, right. So you're like, holy shit. So you feel very connected to the. You know, as an audience member watching it. So I think my take would be, oh, new cities fall in love with new people, and they start to build momentum. I mean, Salt Lake had, like, you know, a rough start, I think, you know, in terms of the fan base. And then it took a couple years for it really to pop. But I foresee that happening with new cities and new.

[Heather McDonald]

New cities popping. Like Salt Lake.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it just makes more sense. I mean, this brand, it's a brand. Anytime you see the Real Housewives stamped on it, you're gonna watch it, Right?

[Heather McDonald]

So let's talk about Ladies of London. There's just two episodes out. I think it airs right after Real Housewives. Beverly Hills, I think.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So there's two out.

[Paul Royston]

I'm obsessed.

[Heather McDonald]

It was brilliant the way they marketed this. So I'm giving Bravo props like I always do. Though I wish I'd get some props back.

[Paul Royston]

Who do we gotta talk to to get that for you?

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. I turned with Andy. I turned on Watch what Happens Live. And Bose was on next to. I'm learning everyone's name. This girl with a pony. Micah.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, Micah. Yeah, Micah. She's the one that Dara. They had the falling out, right? Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And so right when it starts, Annie goes. Now, when was the last time you talked to Dara and she never came back to the show?

[Paul Royston]

Shajara or Dara? I'm saying Dara. I think it's Dara. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't know. And she's never coming back to the show, and she's not in the poster. And I immediately go, oh, my God. London started airing. I didn't even know. I immediately went over to Peacock and watched those two episodes because I'm like, something went down where a cast member left after two episodes. Like, I was like, that is juicy. So I start. So I watched the two episodes, and you Know this. They're not calling it Real Housewives. Do you know why?

[Paul Royston]

Because there is a Real Housewives of London, and they didn't.

[Heather McDonald]

They just want to start fresh.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. Well, because I think for them, in the culture that we're kind of living in, most shows that are breaking through are shows that either have original IP of some sort. Right. Like, you already are familiar with it. Like I always say, like, the only thing in my mind that has really stuck out in its own form is Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, because.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Paul Royston]

That's just like lightning in a bottle on a show. Right. But like, these shows, like Ladies of London, you're already familiar because you know that there was already a series on Bravo before. So you're kind of like, oh, let's see what it looks like. So that is my take of why it's just a Ladies of London also,

[Heather McDonald]

I think a Ladies. So the Ladies of London. So that could be. We could now do Ladies of Chicago. Yeah, we could do Ladies of. I think it's brilliant because so many times they're not housewives, they're not married, they're not straight. And now we actually have a man on the show who is, I think, the star of the show, kind of the anchor, because he's friends with everybody and he's really funny and he's dry. He is a real pretty good.

[Paul Royston]

Like, you could just tell as a cast, like, he knows. Like, he's like, hey, let's drive this story.

[Heather McDonald]

And so. And I think that's the way it should go. I think if Real Housewives, I think, should stay a cast of women, I mean, I think some things we just.

[Paul Royston]

They're not broke. Don't fix it.

[Heather McDonald]

We just gotta have. But I like this Ladies of London thing where it's just. It's predominantly still women. But a guy doesn't just have to be the best friend that comes in and out. Like, he can actually be a real person because he really is hanging out with these women and everything.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And of course, he's so funny and everything.

[Paul Royston]

I feel like they used to do that back in the day on Housewives. Like, I mean, the gay wasn't like

[Heather McDonald]

the Real Housewives of Atlanta. They had, like. Like, those two guys.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, they had. Oh, my gosh. It was. Oh, my gosh.

[Heather McDonald]

One had cheekbones and one.

[Paul Royston]

Dwight.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

Dwight Eubanks.

[Heather McDonald]

And then one was, like, the hairdresser

[Paul Royston]

that was like, Lawrence. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

Or whatever. Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And so. But this. But I kind of. This was a really good casting. And, you know, I'VE never even been to London, but again, gorgeous, gorgeous city.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So there's a lot to look at. So it just kind of transports you into a beautiful place. And these people are different. It's fun. And there's a handful. Like, half is American, which I also like.

[Paul Royston]

And I can't tell who's who. But I was like, I don't even need to know who's who, because if you have a premiere like that was. I'm like, I'm just locked in and I'm gonna figure it out along the way. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

And I was confused in the beginning between the two older women, one that lives with a bird and one that looks like she has smeared lipstick.

[Paul Royston]

Kimmy and Marco.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, those are those two.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, Kimmy in the green. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

So I'm like, those two are interchangeable.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Then there's three brunette, like, model actresses.

[Paul Royston]

Missy. I like her. That's the. The mod. That's the one who blew the whistle on Dar. I like her. She's gorgeous.

[Heather McDonald]

You know? And then there's this beautiful black woman who's like, looks like Tandy Newton, who. Who has, you know, some type of royalty. I don't even care if she's boring. I just like to look at her, and I like her outfits and I like that she lives in a castle. Anyway, the Micah story. So now I'm gonna blow up the Micah story for you. So too bad, but you can watch it. So Micah has this friend and she's American, and she is kind of an influencer that's talking about etiquette. And she has this friend who she's like, oh, my God. We were best friends in college and she's this beautiful Asian woman. We don't even know her name. Dara Darragh. And she's actually an architect. And they are cutting it so brilliantly where the Dara girl is like, I barely knew Micah in college. We're not really friends. And then they have this blow up scene where it's called out at the dinner that Dara has called Micah cringe and, like, been kind of nasty about her. And she just basically goes, this isn't for me, and gets up and, like,

[Paul Royston]

I mean, it's like, it's great. I mean, because now I'm like, oh, we're. We're still not even in the story. Like, the two episodes are just about this. Yeah, no spoiler alert. But yeah, I mean, it completely takes a complete turn because now we're like, oh, that wasn't even fully getting into the story. That's like, now one and done. Like, we're over that.

[Heather McDonald]

Related to the Dara. Because I'm like, if I was cruel and talked shit about my friend and was called out on it on camera and I didn't need to do this job, I think I might do the same thing. I might be like, just get me out. People will forget about and people will. If this becomes a hit, people aren't going to remember that girl in a year or two.

[Paul Royston]

You don't think so?

[Heather McDonald]

No, I don't. And then. But what I thought was really crazy in this day and age of Epstein files is that the rumor they drop in the first episode is that same woman, Dara, who is a bitch to Micah, is a madam.

[Paul Royston]

Yes. She's an alleged mistress. Yes.

[Heather McDonald]

And a madam. Now, this could be funnier. Ten years ago.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

When there was the happy hooker and there were the girls that were hooker lights like I used to talk about, and there was the Heidi Fleiss. But now it's all negative.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. It's all.

[Heather McDonald]

Not one person wants to be a hooker unless they're on. Only fans and they do it themselves. Everyone's trafficked. We never used the word trafficked before. So it's just like, if she's being accused of this, like, setting people up.

[Paul Royston]

Well, just. It's a time that it's like, you want to watch how you for are free. Yeah. You're saying it. Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

And I'm like, oh, my God. And then the fact that that dare woman, like, well, it's not true. So I don't.

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's the thing too, is that I said, see, when you. That's first of all, great casting because I mean, to me, I'm like, somebody had to reveal that there was suspicion that she was an alleged madam. If that's already coming out, like the first one or two episodes. Right. So, like, that, to me is great casting. But for this, I think that's the problem is, like, running away from the cameras and doing that. Now they're breaking the fourth wall, which is what I love, because I think it gives more insight on what actually, like, you're seeing the producers hiding behind the back with the little monitor, you know, in the kitchen when she comes in and she's like, I'm done. I'm out. You know? And I think that to me is.

[Heather McDonald]

And what's crazy, when I heard about that, she left the show for Andy Cohen. I'm starting to watch it. I'm like, oh, well, she's gonna be like, you're accusing me of being a fucking mad. I'm like, I'm out.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

No, it was just she was being accused of being, like, a shitty friend or a shitty person. And they all were like, we've all heard you shitty things about her.

[Paul Royston]

The.

[Heather McDonald]

The madam is probably the most flattering thing they said about. I was like, oh, my God.

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's the thing too, right, Is that she came in. She obviously does well for herself financially. She came in for the fame. And I'm like, what possessed this woman to come into a show where she's getting called a madam? And this is like, we're not talking about, like, I'm like, girl, that's child's play in housewives world. You know, if you get called a madam, a hooker, like, okay, what did you think about?

[Heather McDonald]

Because I thought if someone said. Like, I just had someone recently say, I heard that you. You know, someone told me you said this about me. Okay. I did a little investigation. I'm like, you gotta. You got a message from a troll. Like, I've never talked about you outside of when we've been on the show together. It's just. And what they said that I said was never anything I've ever said about anybody. It's. It's typical mean girl shit. It just. If you listen to me, if Chat GPT, if you ask Chat GPT, what's something mean Heather would say about another woman, it wouldn't be that, because they would have taken everything I've said for 10 years and given the right answer. I'm like, this just isn't something I've said. So I did immediately, like, correct this girl and going, just. Can you look where the source is?

[Paul Royston]

This isn't.

[Heather McDonald]

Because I didn't want this. This person to go to bed feeling

[Paul Royston]

that you would do that I would do.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I was like, I know how it feels to be trolled by a troll, and it's all made up just so they just were like, just want to with people.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So I'm always the one that's like. I'm always saying that about, like, juicy crimes too. Like, when someone's being accused of murder, I'm like, And they're just sitting there and they don't take the stand. I'm like, I think I'd be like,

[Paul Royston]

I didn't kill my husband. You're gonna fight for it. I don't know.

[Heather McDonald]

But I thought it was like a very weird reaction when it came out when the Micah girls goes, look, they were talking at this party that You're a madam.

[Paul Royston]

And she's like, I know, right? I know. It was like.

[Heather McDonald]

It was very weird. I'm like, either you knew this scene was coming or you have heard this before or something. Not that you were it and making a commission, but maybe there was something in your past where you did introduce somebody to some situation that was a situation ship involving money. I don't know.

[Paul Royston]

Well, the producer had to, like, there's no way that this would have been brewing and she would have no idea that this would have been a thing. Because I think Micah brought it up to her on camera, remember?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

And she was like, oh, well, someone told me, like, she deflected. So she just gave me the vibe of she was somebody who probably was, like, difficult to work with in terms of, like, I'm not gonna talk about it. I'm gonna completely shut down. And you can't go on a show like this and shut down. Like, that's just not how it works. Because you're gonna need to defend yourself. You're gonna need to push back. You're gonna need to talk about uncomfortable things. I mean, the thing with Micah came up to her and was like, can we talk about it? No, babe, but I love you. And she, like, kissed her. It was like the weirdest thing. I'm like, what is this? Like, it just.

[Heather McDonald]

It was almost like a Jesus and Judas thing. Like, it was a little.

[Paul Royston]

It was so bizarre, but I was like, I want to see. Like, I want more. But that, to me, was just somebody who came in not knowing what this world entails and signed up for something that she thought was just going to be like rainbows and butterflies. And I'm like, that's not it, girl. Like, if, you know, you're signing up for a show like this.

[Heather McDonald]

And you know what also makes me excited about this is, like, the same way when people write me and they're like, okay, we're doing our girls weekend in la. And besides, you know, going to whatever, this restaurant, what other, like, weird places should we go? Whatever this makes me go. I definitely, like, want to plan, like, a girls trip to London, since I've never been. And I want to go to that

[Paul Royston]

Asian restaurant, all the spots that they've gone in. I want to do all that stuff because isn't it funny? Because people do that in LA all the time. They're like, let's go to Sur. And I'm like, okay. And now we're like, no, let's go to London and do this. I'm like, I'm down. That actually would be really fun.

[Heather McDonald]

It would be really fun. Anyway, everyone should watch it. I think it's a real fresh. Now there's rumors that Real Housewives of Miami is on an indefinite pause or not coming back. Can you give us any inside scoop?

[Paul Royston]

I don't believe that to be true because I feel like there's no way that they would just pull the plug on this. I think what this comes down to, again, casting. You need women. First of all, the people love Dr. Nicole. She's never coming back to the show. She doesn't want to. And then you get somebody with like money like Stephanie, who's been vocal about saying, ugh, I don't know if I would put myself into that again. Todd has a lawsuit out against Bravo, apparently.

[Heather McDonald]

But then she's back with him. Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

So I just think. And then also, you know, you gotta look at it. Larsa, not married. Kids are older. Adrianna, kids are older, not married. I'm trying to think, who else? I mean, Lisa, she's going through a divorce, has young kids.

[Heather McDonald]

But see, I see you just saying all that. I'm remembering them and I, I think they're all great. Like, I think it, I say bring them back. Like, I feel like they're all like, I love it.

[Paul Royston]

I wish I was the, Like, I don't make the. This is from like my understanding of just like where the, the connection of where viewers don't, like, I mean, they have a cult following, but like, it's not here. Skyrocketing, you know. And I think it comes down to disconnection of the women and not having real story. I mean, like, how many times can you watch Lisa go, you know, date,

[Heather McDonald]

date, and then fight with. Yeah, fight with Larsa. Yeah. Alexia.

[Paul Royston]

And it's Miami too. Right. Like, it's a hard. It's like Beverly Hills, another city that. It's hard because you get a lot of people who maybe look the part, but do they actually fit the bill? Like, you can look the part, but do you have the financial means to live that lifestyle? Are you really connected to these women by any ounce of degree of separation to connect them to each other? And do you really have the personality where you can step in?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. You kind of get me thinking with the Rhode island coming and stuff and the success of Salt Lake City, even though I was sort of not overly into Dallas and I don't really miss it because I felt like there wasn't. I don't know, it's really about the people. So it's like, but I wonder. Yeah. If the city's almost too big and the characters in it aren't big enough or something. Like, it kind of has to fit. Like, the city has to be the right size and the connection always has to be real, which is why, like, New Jersey and, you know, the sisters, how it originally started was such a hit. What do you think will happen with New Jersey? We keep waiting to hear what's going on there.

[Paul Royston]

Same thing. I think they. I think the network has been so used to turn and burn, like, you know, New Jersey infamous for that. I mean, they filmed a reunion while they were still filming a season. At one point, like, they would just crunch these bad boys out. I think now because they know that other cities are coming, they have other shows, a lot more shows on their slate. They don't need to turn these shows out the way that they used to. And I actually think for a show like this, it's beneficial. More time has passed because then you can get past, okay, we're not doing another Teresa versus Melissa thing. They made amends. They know what they're doing, you know, and it kind of lets things cool off a little bit. And I also think another city that's hard to cast just because, well, state to cast, because, you know, who is really connected, who fits that bill? You have really strong stars on the show. I mean, Teresa alone is, I mean, a star. You have Margaret, you have Melissa, you have Dolores. Like, those are heavy hitters. So it's like, where do those girls stack, too? And then you have to think the age part of it, too. Right. Who are the women that are coming in with young kids? They did try to do it this season. I don't know. I mean, they didn't.

[Heather McDonald]

Danielle.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. It didn't land. I feel like for the viewers with these two, because I think the Teresa and Melissa stuff was so dark again.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

It'll come back. They're not going to cancel New Jersey. They're not going to cancel Miami either. I think it comes. I mean, I'm saying this. I don't 100% know, but in my gut, I can't imagine that they would let these shows go. To me, it's all about good casting and taking their time with it.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

Oops.

[Heather McDonald]

I. Yeah, I think it's interesting that they. They just picked plucked Dolores out to go and spend a summer in Rhode Island.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, well, see, that's where I think she has a genuine connection to one of the women. And I feel like that is a smart move, them doing that. Because I even feel like, oh, the New York reboot, Carol has been announced to be in the mix of it. And I'm like, oh, okay. This is really smart and a good tactic because you bring in that core audience of that legacy of what you liked of the show. Right. Like, you liked Carol. Cause she really fit New York. You feel like you know her. Same thing with Dolores. You feel like you know her. You do know her. You watch her on Traders New Jersey all these years, you put her in a new city, then you're like, oh, there's something there. It's different than just plucking brand new people and throwing them to the wolves. I think it's like, maybe a new tactic that Bravo's using of, like, let's give some IP of people that we know already and then build the show around that in a way. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. When does Rhode island come out?

[Paul Royston]

April 2nd.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, and then the Valley comes out then, too, right? Like April 1st or something. Yeah, that'll be an exciting situation. Okay, going back to Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, what happens when you have, like, the friend, like, Natalie goes, oh,

[Paul Royston]

yeah, we don't know her at all. Yeah, poor girl.

[Heather McDonald]

Natalie goes. Is just there and she goes to Italy. And I don't know if, like, she never pops during the season and they can't, like, really cut around her. But then, you know, it's like she shows up one day and she's like, I had a happy ending by a man at a massage.

[Paul Royston]

And I'm like, when they did that, it was like, we don't need girl. That's the first time I ever heard you talk.

[Heather McDonald]

I felt like that was so planned. And it's like, it's not even original, like, joke or story or anything.

[Paul Royston]

I know.

[Heather McDonald]

And it's kind of gross.

[Paul Royston]

But you can't even be mad at her because if not saying you are, but the audience, I feel like, in terms of saying, like, oh, you know,

[Heather McDonald]

why she, like, trying to be provocative?

[Paul Royston]

Or why is she just so boring? It's like, that's just. They're not giving her enough air time or she didn't pop, or she just

[Heather McDonald]

doesn't cut out all her other interesting stuff or whatever. And, like. But I'm sure, like, she maybe had a story like that and they're like, tell that story because, like, all the women will die. But I also want to say that story, like, sometimes I wonder, like, you know, some. Some guy that's producing it maybe heard that and thought that was like, oh, my God, a Woman getting a happy ending. It's like there was a whole storyline on Sex and the City about that in which, you know, it was written by men. Where Kim Cattrall, like, gets kicked out of the spa because she keeps going back for happy ending but also does someone at home. Honestly, I don't want to think about, like, if that's gross.

[Paul Royston]

You don't like that?

[Heather McDonald]

I don't like it.

[Paul Royston]

You don't.

[Heather McDonald]

I don't think it's.

[Paul Royston]

Is that where Heather McDonald draws the line on housewives?

[Heather McDonald]

I get why it's in a gay world.

[Paul Royston]

It's like a real treat, but for women.

[Heather McDonald]

But for a woman to think that you're like, getting a massage and that guy just starts to like, diddle your

[Paul Royston]

bean and you're like, I didn't really know how.

[Heather McDonald]

Who cares? I'm divorced. Like, there's just something about it that's like, I don't know. I mean, nobody even really made a big deal out of it. And I. I haven't until now. I just thinking like, that's the only thing we're going to remember this poor girl about.

[Paul Royston]

About getting a happy ending at her massage. I didn't even know what a woman's happy end. Like, I know guy. I mean, I'm gay. I live in West Hollywood. I know we all know what a

[Heather McDonald]

happy ending is for any guy. There's a. A dick and there's something you do with it.

[Paul Royston]

I didn't know with girls. Like, I was like, oh, like, do what? Like, I didn't know that was a real thing. I went to a place. I go to a massage place.

[Heather McDonald]

I assume it's he's massaging you and then he starts, you know, getting to a place where you then orgasm, whatever that is. I figure with, you know, finger you, whatever. And you know, and then I almost

[Paul Royston]

got and sold it because I. I put my friend onto a place. A. We're not gonna out the name, but it's a place close by that I go to for. They've given me legit massages. I've been like, oh my gosh. I feel like a new person. My friend has gone to about four different people, gets a happy ending every time. He goes. And I'm like, do I take this personally? Like, why are they not doing this to me? Like, why are you getting every person on the roster and they're trying.

[Heather McDonald]

There is a. I thought there was like an unwritten rule hint where it. It's like you kind of say, I thought it was like, do you Want that? And then you either. Like, for men at like places that do both, just legit massage it. I one time was somewhere in Encino and I had like an hour to kill and I'm in like a square thing and I see like the little, you know, cat waving, you know, like Asian place, whatever. And I'm like, I like love a massage. I don't care if it's like a random spot, whatever. So I go in and it's like all covered up and everything. And this lady comes out, she's like, hello. And I'm like, oh, hi. I was wanting to get a massage. And they're like, no. And so then I realized, oh, my God, this is a legit sex shop. Like, it was like, they're not gonna take me. They only want men. Give the happy ending, pay more than the $42 for the massage. And then I was like, oh, because I. Yeah, like, like the. Because when I go into those strip mom places, they're totally legit. I get a massage and there might be somebody in a cot lay next to me getting massage, but I'm like, whatever, half the price. Burke Williams. But yeah, I. I just thought that was just such a weird thing. And then I feel kind of bad

[Paul Royston]

because, like, this is what she's going to be remembered.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah. And I doesn't. And then someone made it, made a video about like, all of a sudden, I'm turning on the after show and she's sitting there. They're like, why is she on the after show? She must pop later then.

[Paul Royston]

This is what I'm thinking. If you want to hear my hot take. My hot take is that I'm thinking, she doesn't pop that. What happens sometimes on these shows is that somebody can come in as a full time cast member and it just. The cards don't pan out for you. I had somebody on a franchise who started off full time. They could not give the story that they promised and they just became a friend of. They were demotivated.

[Heather McDonald]

Now when you say that without getting yourself in trouble, give the story you promised. What's an example? Hypothetically. Like, let's do a hypothetical. So you're not revealing anything.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

I tell you something. In our interviews, everyone's like, holy shit, she's great. Have her on.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, what would be a story that then I don't deliver?

[Paul Royston]

My husband is gonna be on camera. We have this great relationship and it's thriving. You know, I'm working on rebuilding my relationship with my. My sibling and my parents. Parents don't want to be on camera. Siblings don't want to be on camera. Husband doesn't want to be on camera. You're like. I mean, it's like, what are we showing you? Knitting. And, you know, like, what are we gonna do at this point? You know, it's like, well, I love

[Heather McDonald]

Sutton, but the other day, her scene was watching her. I know tv with the three cats and a dog. And I almost felt like. I almost felt that as a viewer and as someone that knows tv. Like, they shared. To show that they showed that part

[Paul Royston]

just to do it, just to.

[Heather McDonald]

To kind of, like, fuck her a little bit.

[Paul Royston]

To kind of be like, well, there's nothing going on.

[Heather McDonald]

If you are not back next season, it's because you maybe couldn't deliver those things. Which is unfortunate, because sometimes you do, like I said, get to a certain age, and if you're not dating anyone and you're not. And your kids don't live with you and. And they're not particularly, like, wanting to be on the show or FaceTime you every day and tell you about their exciting thing or have you be stressed about them.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. It's like, what are you gonna do?

[Heather McDonald]

What are you gonna do?

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's why I think with Natalie, it's either something was promised or things were just so boring that they brought her in there with the assumption of, like, maybe she'll make it pop and give a little more. And it's either that she got overshadowed or they brought her in and she didn't pop the way that they thought she was gonna pop. But that's disappointing. Cause I think this season, they needed someone like that to really make it happen.

[Heather McDonald]

So, hypothetically, do you keep Amanda?

[Paul Royston]

If I was producing the show, yes. Oh, yeah, I'm keeping her. Absolutely. I like somebody that can come on a show and just make bitches mad just for being them. That, to me, is just hysterical. Granted, if they're really toxic behind the scenes or whatever, let that come to light.

[Heather McDonald]

But I don't think she is. I think that she's just. But she's getting a reaction, and that's important.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, my gosh. I think it's so amazing. I just love when someone just comes in and it just lights people up and they just get mad. And right now, it just feels like her against everybody.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

Kyle is just, like, probably holding on. Cause Kyle's been through the ropes at this. Like, been through the wringer of knowing this girl's gonna get next season off if I don't jump in. And help her out. Right?

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah.

[Paul Royston]

So she's her only real friend at

[Heather McDonald]

this point, which I kind of like too. I kind of like her being like, well, we are supposed to give opinions about each other. And then you're mad that she's giving an opinion about you. Like, what else are we doing on the fucking show?

[Paul Royston]

Exactly.

[Heather McDonald]

Then, like, so I kind of like that. There's been more, like, moments like that. Like, our job is to talk about our lives and talk about each other. The other thing is, sadly, Rachel Zoe was robbed. Now, you know, I talked about this on the show.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So she was robbed. Kathy Hilton, while her husband was there, was robbed. Kyle has been robbed. Dorit has been robbed. Garcelle has had two SWAT situations where someone calls a SWAT team to her house. What do you. Has that ever been an issue in that you're showing these people's homes? I mean, on the other flip side of it, everyone can find your address, you know, so unless you live in high security, gated communities, people could drive up to your house, they could take a photo of the outside of your house. Even if you're doing a false house on the outside. Like they did the Kardashians for so many years.

[Paul Royston]

I mean, Rihanna's house too. Just.

[Heather McDonald]

That was horrific.

[Paul Royston]

Scary.

[Heather McDonald]

So, I mean, does that ever. Is that ever a discussion or like. And then you're supposed to show your goods and show that you're wealthy yet.

[Paul Royston]

Well, that's the problem is that they want you to show this. But then there's a really bad side of it when you're putting it out there, that people are gonna say, well, we know they're at BravoCon during this weekend, so let's go and rob. Like, I mean, that's really.

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, there's something. Sure. Even if you don't post in real time, being like, I'm at this restaurant and you actually take your photos and you do it. Oh, we had. You know, now I'm back. Here was my great weekend at Watch what Happens Live. You're at Watch what Happens Live.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You might not be filming right now, but you filmed it two hours ago, which means you're not in la.

[Paul Royston]

I've seen that in real time. There was one time we were in Vegas and I saw a housewife there, and I was like, wait, is that her? And I'm like, oh, yeah, that is her. But I'm watching her story, and her story is that she's posting at her house. She's there. But I'm like, oh, no, she's here in Vegas. That's smart. And then I saw a couple days later is when she posted that she was in Vegas. And I'm like, oh, that's probably because she was back home at that point. That is very smart.

[Heather McDonald]

But sometimes you just. You're too big on it, or you're on a show, you're on a live show, you're on a New York show,

[Paul Royston]

and people know your schedule.

[Heather McDonald]

You really can. I mean, I guess I. I was saying, like, you know. Yeah, I think that's another thing people need to consider when they go on a Real Housewife show. Then on the Case of Potomac, they jumped on the being robbed bandwagon, but they were never robbed.

[Paul Royston]

You're like. You're like, can't make this shit up, right?

[Heather McDonald]

I mean, they were never robbed. And then they said, we were robbed. And then they added things to.

[Paul Royston]

Well, to your point about the house exterior shots, there were moments, specifically when I worked on Interpump Rules, when a lot of the cast members were starting to make money and they were buying all their houses in the Valley. And they were. A lot of them were like, we don't want exterior shots of our house because those houses aren't in a gated community. They're just, like, right off the street. I mean, granted, some of those houses, too, are off the street, too. I mean, they might have big gates in Beverly Hills, but, I mean, Sutton lives on a main road, you know, so it's like, we see it. But, yeah, that has been a point of people. Like, I don't know if I want my full exterior of my house out there, but that's a big thing. Like, in casting, like, when you're looking, you're like, what does your house look like? Right? Like, that's a big thing. They want to know if you are walking the walk. You're talking the talk. Like, so I feel like that is the Housewives brand of, like, seeing, like, you're saying, what do you live? Like, what is your lifestyle? But I feel like the future. That could be a big thing for people. Not wanting to put that out there now.

[Heather McDonald]

That's what was so funny about this pretty woman on Ladies of London that she lives in, like, a fucking hobbit house.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, my. Oh, the one with the bird.

[Heather McDonald]

Yeah, she lives with a bird. It's like a tiny. The most tiny. I don't even know how the cameraman fit in there.

[Paul Royston]

The paint's peeling on the roof. There's like, bird shit everywhere.

[Heather McDonald]

But then I'm like, super Intrigued with her life story.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Cause she's like, oh, I had all this money and then I got nothing. And now I'm like, I live with a bird. And like, like I was like, there's something there. Yeah, as long as it's honest, I don't care.

[Paul Royston]

That's how I feel too. That's why it's hard. Like, there have been women.

[Heather McDonald]

I'd rather see someone live poorly but have an interesting story than someone to act and buy all the fake shit and act like they're rich.

[Paul Royston]

So happy you're saying that because when there have been projects that I've worked on where if their house doesn't look the part, they, they're not in the mix, like, that's a deal breaker. Like if your house doesn't look a certain way, like, it's like, well, what makes this Real Housewives? Why would you come on here? And I agree. I'd rather see somebody live in maybe a more modest home. But then in the bigger picture is like, does that take away the image of housewives? Because what do you think of Housewives? It's women who live a particular life, you know, an affluent life, an expensive life. So it's like, well, if she's living in the house that, you know, the kid that I graduated high school with just bought, you know, it's like, like, does that really mean anything? But I agree.

[Heather McDonald]

But then I think it's like, as long as you're like, in interesting and you're, you know, like as long as you're doing the job, you're clever, you're funny, you have an interesting point of view. You're fun to watch on TV because whether you're attractive or both or you know how to put an out together or. And you actually have a real connection to the. These other women. I mean, like Gina, people always criticize, oh, Gina on O.C. she's not rich.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

So what? Like, you know what I mean? She's.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, done.

[Heather McDonald]

She's funny. In the confessional, she's interesting.

[Paul Royston]

Like, oh, she's. To me, I feel like she's become somebody like, full. Like she knows her job now. Like, she's great. Like, I think she's actually.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, the thing that people forget is that it's just all subjective. It's entertainment.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

You were not hiring people to work at the factory.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Where you're like, well, you're supposed to know how to work a 25 inch screw or something. Like, like there's no criteria. Like, and so it's just like, no. No rules apply in entertainment. Just be entertaining.

[Paul Royston]

Well, I think their thing of what they do is that's the friend of role.

[Heather McDonald]

Right.

[Paul Royston]

We can get a Brandi Glanville. Brandi did not live like the rest of the Beverly Hills ladies. And what did they do? They're like, you're going to be a friend of. Right.

[Heather McDonald]

Because you mean afterwards, because she became a regular.

[Paul Royston]

Well, yeah, she did, but that's because she proved herself as a friend. Her personality, like you're saying, it's like she's quick, savvy, witty, but she did not live a very aspirational life in terms of financials, you know, And I think that's what they do because then their point would be, well, if we just let anybody with, you know, a regular house or regular lifestyle, then that's just. Now every. It's a free for all. Anybody can join the show.

[Heather McDonald]

But I kind of feel like that is Salt Lake.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah.

[Heather McDonald]

Like, I mean, like, you know, Meredith comes off wealthy and Lisa says she's wealthy, but like, Whitney lives in, like a cute, normal house and always has.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah. I mean, Monica, I loved when she came on for the sake of her house was like a regular degular house. Like, it was just cute and nice. But she definitely. And she was honest about it. That's what I liked about it. Like, hey, this is not the type of lifestyle I live, you know?

[Heather McDonald]

Right. Well, this has been so much fun. I thoroughly have enjoyed you being on the show.

[Paul Royston]

Oh, my gosh. Thanks for having me.

[Heather McDonald]

And we can talk about housewives all the time. So you'll have to come back.

[Paul Royston]

Please let me come back and tell

[Heather McDonald]

everybody where they can follow you because you give good TikTok and insight and funny.

[Paul Royston]

Yeah, follow me. Just my name on TikTok Instagram. Paul Royston and I have a podcast with my mom where we talk about these Hollywood stories, all the good stuff growing up and surviving in Hollywood. And that is at. Hold on. I'm calling my mom. So we have a podcast that we record every week and drop every Monday. So yeah, you can see.

[Heather McDonald]

That's a great name. I love it.

[Paul Royston]

Thank you.

[Heather McDonald]

Well, thank you so much for coming. You're so excited.

[Paul Royston]

Thanks for having me. Thank you. You. Thank you.

[Heather McDonald]

And Everybody. Go to heathermcdonald.net for everything, tickets to my shows. I'll be in Salt Lake City March 20th and 21st and to join Patreon. Thank you.

[Paul Royston]

Bye. Close your eyes.

[Heather McDonald]

Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts

[Paul Royston]

in time for this class.

[Heather McDonald]

I got them delivered free from Winnie 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Paul Royston]

And breathe.

[Heather McDonald]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[Paul Royston]

It's tax season and at Lifelock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.

[Heather McDonald]

Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. It works for members like I'm Haley and I've lost 100 pounds. Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. It's all in one place. Weight Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effect support.

[Paul Royston]

I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pounds. Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing. I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers.

[Heather McDonald]

I realized that it would take more than a prescription to lose weight and

[Paul Royston]

feel good on a GLP1.

[Heather McDonald]

Better results, expert support Lose more weight,

[Paul Royston]

make it last I can't imagine doing a GLP1 without Weight Watchers.

[Heather McDonald]

Get started for as low as $25 at weightwatchers.com GLP1 medications require eligibility and prescription patients on 15 milligrams of prize appetite and an average of 21% weight loss and a 72 week clinical trial when paired with diet and exercise. First month is always 25 for the 12 month plus plan does not include the cost of GLP1 medications.