Sheena Shay (34:47)

Good. Thank you for having me. Always good to see you.

Heather McDonald (34:51)

I know you're so busy. So we are doing this, you know, so on the zoom, which is fine because sometimes I like it better because other times people say I interrupt people in this way. I can on zoom because I have so much to talk about. The book is great. First of all, I'm going to tell you how good the book is. It's so good. And I'm not blowing steam up your ass. So I'm sure the haters will say that. But there's one what I love about it is it kind of reads like when I used to be studying Shakespeare, Shakespearean plays, and I'd read Cliff Notes because that is what Vanderpump Rules is. It's so much of like. And what we didn't know is that these two people were talking and I ran around the corner and said this and if you've ever studied Shakespeare, that really he was like writing reality tv. It was, it's.

Sheena Shay (35:45)

So you're comparing me to Shakespeare.

Heather McDonald (35:47)

I'm comparing reality TV to Shakespeare. But you, the way you describe what was going on in your life but also in the show, which was, you know, he wrote plays is like, it's why I've always been fascinated by reality TV and why I've studied it and covered it. But how did you enjoy the process of writing the book?

Sheena Shay (36:07)

Oh, that's a loaded question. It was a lot. You know, it's cathartic for sure. It was great to put it all out there and to just literally put it in the book. But collaborating with someone, you know, I touch on that a bit. In the book. There was a leak. It was a process that didn't go extremely smooth and it was very challenging. So going through this, I now know if I do ever write another book, what I would do differently. What? I would maybe do the same, but for my first book, for a memoir, I didn't know what I was doing. I may be a natural storyteller and have a journalism degree. However, I don't know how to structure a book. I don't know what people will want to hear, what people won't want to hear. I could go on about my childhood for chapters, but how do we make it a little more concise? So the whole process, it was definitely a learning experience. Some great cathartic times, but also a lot of tears, full on panic attacks and wanting to just quit after I had a book deal in place.

Heather McDonald (37:22)

Well, you know, first of all, I guess you're saying, you know, I'm sure you, I've read all the criticism. I mean, you've done some interviews that reveal some of the juicier parts of the book and I'm seeing people most. So the most juicy part of the book is that you reveal that Brock, your now husband, father of Summer Moon, that after you had gotten married, which you got married after Summer was born, when she was about 2, during the scandal thing, Brock came to you because he. Now this is where I get a little confused. So he saw something on a blind or a Reddit that, that they, that someone was saying that he had had an affair and therefore he wanted to tell you before it came to fruition?

Sheena Shay (38:08)

Not exactly. So there were several blind items about him and Raquel that were complete bullshit. But I still had to question it. I still, in my brain was like, I mean, if Tom and Raquel did this, could Brock and Raquel have done it? Like, no, no way. So those. It was annoying, but that was fine. Then there was another blind item that came out about a girl supposedly who he dated before me in San Diego. Said she helped him pack his bags for the Australia trip where we made it official. He said that that was also bullshit. But then part of me was like, there's probably some truth to this. Maybe it wasn't that she packed his bags for Australia, but they probably were talking before me. I do know he was seeing someone before me. And he cut that off and we made it official in Bali. And as far as I knew, he was always faithful after that. So with that blind item, I think he was like, okay, the Raquel thing was completely bullshit. Like, yeah, there was someone I dated before, but also knowing what he had done, what if that's the next blind item that comes out? Because now either that woman feels like revealing it or she told a friend or someone Wants, you know, a few hundred bucks to sell a story. I don't even know how much you get for those. But I think he just felt like, if this is going to come out, Sheena deserves to hear it from me, not on some blind item on a blog site.

Heather McDonald (39:34)

And it never did come out.

Sheena Shay (39:36)

Well, then a couple days after my book sold, there was a big blog site that had a blind item saying I was writing a book. It just got picked up, and there was going to be a chapter where I revealed Brock had a physical and emotional affair. It was never emotional. So that was the part of the blind item that wasn't true. But this came out two days after I sold my book. And it didn't go anywhere else after that. It just kind of lived there. But knowing that it was out in the world, not knowing if it was going to be screenshot, if it was going to be posted somewhere else, it's behind a paywall. But maybe that is going to go somewhere else. Maybe it's going to go to Reddit. Like, I don't know. So then I felt like Brock had to tell my mom, needed to tell my sister, because I don't want my mom finding out from a blind item. You know, I've kept this for over a year secret, but now what do we do? I had a rough outline of the chapter of. If we put it in the book, here's what I would want to say. He read it and he was just like, no, like, this can't go in the book like this. And if you are going to put it in the book, you need to give a hell of a lot more detail. Which I did. And he didn't read it until it went to print. And then he was like, oh, wow, you really went all in. I'm like, you told me if I was going to put it in the book to add more detail. But once there, you know, was a blind item, and the more we talked about it, we went back and forth for probably about eight months. It's in the book. It's not in the book. The book sold without them knowing at all what chapter 16 was. There was a very vague description of what this chapter could be. The book sold. So I felt like the book stood alone and was a good enough book without it. But the more I sat with it, the more I thought about it. I'm like, this is completely inauthentic of me to put out a book, a memoir, where I'm telling people that I'm an open book and I'm going To tell you everything about me that you didn't know. But I'm going to leave out a chapter in the book, leave out a chapter of my life and go from Scandival to this past December. It doesn't like, how do I talk about the last year and a half now, two and a half years of my life since I've known this. If I don't put it in the book, it just wasn't going to be a real memoir that I would be genuinely proud of because I would feel like I did a disservice to myself and to everyone reading it that it wasn't the whole story.

Heather McDonald (42:07)

Well, I totally understand that. Of what you're sharing and why you decide to share something, especially at your level of fame and the way the Internet works. And I can relate a lot to that, to revealing something now. So, I mean, as someone who knows you personally was very into the Sandoval. I follow a lot of people. I can say I never saw that or heard about it. I never had someone DM it to me. So that's kind of amazing, actually, that it didn't really get out there that much.

Sheena Shay (42:45)

I really am. But I just knew also, if I didn't put it in the book for the rest of my life, sure, maybe I take it to my grave. Maybe we die with it and no one else ever finds out. But I will always be thinking about it in the back of my mind. I will always be looking over my shoulder. I will be in every scene, moving forward of my reality TV career, wondering, do they know? Did they see that blind item? Are they going to say something about it? And then let's say it comes out? My book is inauthentic. Why would Sheena hide it on the show then hide it in her book? I wasn't willing to do that. Didn't even hide it from production. Season 11. I was processing it. I wasn't ready to reveal what we were going through because I hadn't made a decision on if I was going to stay or leave. I was going to fight as hard as I could to see if I was strong enough to stay because, of course it's easier to walk away. You betrayed me. Done with you. Bye. Moving on. But it wasn't so cut and dry. I have a child to think about. Well, of course we've this life together. I'm not going to let a mistake you made two and a half years ago define our future. When you've proven what an amazing husband you are. He is such an incredible father. To Summer. And I know that he has so much regrets from his past, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a second chance at being a dad.

Heather McDonald (44:08)

So to just get the timeline straight for people that are big Vanderpump people. So you're pregnant, unbeknownst to you, he is going to the gym and meets a girl and they have an affair for a short period of time. But it wasn't a one timer that ends. You have summer, you guys plan on getting married, you get engaged, all that scandival breaks. And during the scandival time you hear the stupid rumors about Raquel, but you don't know anything that he actually had ever stepped out while you guys were a couple. So when he tells you when you're about to watch Real Housewives in New Jersey, which I'm guessing, I don't know if that, if you've ever been able to watch it since, but maybe it's not coming back. No, no. Not saying I want that. Not saying I want that. So. So then you still have the final season that you guys were all in together to film. So so you have this in you. And we see you being worried about Tom Sandoval having thoughts about ending his life. You say that can't happen because in the book you reveal a very sad experience that you had with someone who did and that seems all very real and then it's coming to the end. And what's also really interesting about the book is you really go there in revealing what things you were pushed to do because of producers or Lisa Vanderpump and what just one particular thing that you and Lala and a couple of the other girls decided to make a bigger deal out of to have like a better fight happen, which was were you going to share your proposal or not? That you guys were actually engaged while Raquel and James were celebrating their engagement party. So I really appreciated that knowing how these shows work, knowing that other shows like the Hills, we now know through my good friend Spencer and Heidi, who are just the loveliest couple ever, that, you know, they weren't, they weren't, you know that that was very scripted. But yours really is.

Sheena Shay (46:27)

I talk about that a little bit in the book too with Heidi Spencer.

Heather McDonald (46:30)

That you like were. Did like a small bit with them. And then she drives up, she's like, hey girl, Hope you know that's great. Yeah. So that all that stuff is, is why everyone should buy the book because there's so many great other LA moments and things that were never caught on camera. And you like, you know, your early years in la, which I find so fun and relatable. But so with that, you know, the criticism that you're now getting from people who are never going to be your fan no matter what you write, you know, but this is big news story. Is she. I could see this being completely fake. She and Brock. I could see her putting Summer to bed and going, brock, I know how we're going to sell this book. Get me secured on the Valley, get me on Dancing with the Stars, get me all the parts because now I'll have sympathy because I was cheated on. And of course, we know that's not true, but how do you feel, feel about people thinking that you guys made this up to sell a book, which when someone put. That I immediately wrote, no, it's not true. There's no way. There's not a man on this earth that would say, yeah, let's do this and make me look horrible. Like, there's. There's no way.

Sheena Shay (47:48)

Yeah, no, I. Okay, so I've pretty much stayed out of the comment section. So the fact that people are saying I made it up. First of all, let's. Let's go back to season eight when they brought in new cast members and the show was being planned to split into two, which now became the Valley. And I was going to be a part of both shows. I was a part of the Valley before it existed. Then, you know, pandemic season nine, the cancellations, all of that, everything gets pushed. Now season 10 is picked up, which I'm offered a day rate for the second time. Slap in the face.

Heather McDonald (48:21)

Wait, I want to just go back to that part because I just read that part in the book and. Which is another reason why, you know, even if you people are like, why wouldn't she have shared this on the show? I am so proud of you that if you were going to share it, that you were going to save it for yourself. Whether it was going to be an explosive podcast episode, if it was going to be a special on NBC, or if it was going to be a book, I am so glad that you didn't give another huge part of your life on a platter. Because reading that scene in the book that you're about to go and watch what happens live, and the producer calls you, doesn't even know that you're about to go on. Watch what happens live. This. How disrespectful. You don't even know I'm doing your. To say, we need you to come in for the meeting. And then you call Alex Baskin, 5 minutes break batch, before you're about to sit with Annie Cohen, scared. And she's. You're like, what is this meeting about? He's like, it's not one that you're going to like. And then they demote you and put you to the day rate, which I'm really glad you didn't quit, because they did the same thing to Luann. And look at her. She had, like, you know, made the most money that season. Did a juicy thing, but it's a huge ego crusher, especially because we all know the show started because of you.

Sheena Shay (49:39)

So, like, yeah, no, a huge slap in the face to then have it happen to me a second time. And so in the pandemic, pregnant, you know, there's talks of the Valley. It is gonna happen. I meet with producers. They are wanting to shoot a pilot. They shoot a Zoom interview and all of this. And then I find out for season 10, I'm only being offered a day rate. And I'm like, you know, what, do we just walk away? Do we just say, fudge it, let's try the Valley. Let's go on that first season and do that? But then they weren't going to be filming anytime soon, so I'm like, or we do one more season, I collect my day rates. Maybe we get married on it, maybe we don't. We'll figure that out. We're already married. And then we'll talk about, you know, the Valley next year. Well, then we get picked up again. So I'm sorry, I'm not going to take a season one new show income over a season 11.

Heather McDonald (50:29)

Right.

Sheena Shay (50:30)

And so, you know, I pop in on that season two. I pop in on that because we still thought we had a season 12. I was never choosing the Valley over Vanderpump Rules. Now Vanderpump Rules has gone its way, and who knows what will happen season three. But for everyone saying, I'm so desperate to get on the Valley and I'm trying to sell a book and use my family and all of that, I just want to remind them that I've been a part of this show since before it actually existed, and I would never sell my family out to sell an actual book, I'm telling my truth because it's my story. And there's no way I could put out a memoir and not tell my full story. And if there's anything missing from the book, it's not anything that's a skeleton in my closet, because all of those are out and maybe could have gone into some more detail on some stuff, but I'm like, no, this is literally all of me. And it's kind of scary.

Heather McDonald (51:24)

I mean, I think that's great. And I can imagine the feeling you felt of being underappreciated and the fact that in reading the book, how often you did, you were the yes person. You were the person the producer could call or Lisa and say, hey, when we film tomorrow, you need to do this. And the conversations with Lisa are, you know, you're being truthful. I can see it happening. I don't think it's a bad thing. She's got a show, you know, it's kind of what the other housewives have said, you know, that she would, you know, have a way of talking and dropping things. I am friendly with Lisa and she has told me things that have yet to come out about cast members on certain shows she's participated in. And she's like, now don't tell anyone. And I don't think she knows who I am because I don't tell. When people say don't tell anyone. I actually don't. And I kind of was like. And she's. Some of the stories she's told me a couple times. And I'm like, I know you think I'm like, maybe these other bloggers don't say anything. Yeah, these other bloggers or whatever. But I. That's not how I run Juicy Scoop. That's not what Juicy Scoop is about. It's not what Heather McDonald Stand up comedians about. I love this stuff and I love to talk about it and explain it in a way that I know is juicy. And that's not, you know, jumping the gun and destroying someone's life before it's out there. Like, I'm always like, I'm not breaking news. I like to have the news out there and then I'll comment and talk about it because I'm not out to destroy someone's life. So I can totally see how that works. Don't necessarily think she's a bad person. But when, then in the book, you kind of felt like, you know, then again, when you're not useful, you felt unappreciated, pushed to the side, thrown away. And I think that's a really vulnerable thing that you wrote about too.

Sheena Shay (53:26)

Yeah, I kind of felt, you know, used after all of these years. It's like she could have told me from the beginning, look, I know you were involved in this situation a few years ago. His ex wife is on the show, you're probably going to run into her, but, you know, this could turn into something and maybe it would feel cathartic of you to apologize, to get like, she could have just been so honest with me and I would have been like, yeah, absolutely. It still would have been the same decision.

Heather McDonald (53:53)

But dating Eddie Cibrian and the, and the Brandi situation. Yeah. I mean, when it, when you really realize how blindsided you were. However, as a viewer, maybe it was the smartest way to execute it, though you were used as a pawn, but you did get a show out of it. It was a successful show. So it's like, in hindsight, would that have been the classier thing? But would have. It probably wouldn't have been as real. And the show is reality tv. But, you know, so it's all. But that's what's kind of interesting is then you as a 40 year old woman, you know, but you wrote this when you were 39. But like, you know, reflecting back on knowing everything that you know. Now let's jump to the final scene of the end of Vanderpump Rules as we know it. Okay. Which is you guys are in San Francisco and it's the final episode and it's very clear from everything we know now and what you guys have revealed on your own podcast and in your book that this one particular producer, Jeremiah, I guess it was him, is it him that was pushing you guys to want Ariana to have this scene in which she felt it would be a redemption scene for Tom Sandoval to like, hey, I'm really sorry, whatever. And she just wasn't going to give him that. She didn't want to give it to him. And to the viewers watching it, they, many of them felt that you and Lala were coming from a place which you did say, you know, this is, or whatever, you guys, this is our show, we have children. But to some people interpreting it was like, if you, if Ariana doesn't do this scene with Tom Sandoval, she's taking food out of, you know, Little Summer Moon in Ocean's Mouth, which when you say it like it seems. Yeah, it doesn't seem great. How do you feel now about that time and how you're being pushed in these directions and also being the breadwinner of your family and this being the majority of your income is being a star on Vanderpump Rules.

Sheena Shay (56:01)

It was frustrating at the time where I felt like there was a big emotional weight put on Lala and I to carry out this Tom storyline. You know, I obviously had extreme sympathy for the mental state he was in, going through losing someone very close to me to suicide in my past. So that definitely struck a chord. Whether Lisa knew that or not, I'm not sure. But that kind of changed the path on how I was approaching him. I also knew that if I continued to project anger and hate on him, then I kind of had to keep doing that to my husband. And I wanted to work towards forgiving my husband, but then did that mean I had to forgive Tom? And it was this whole inner battle with me, and people want to go and say, you know, that I was so jealous of Ariana for getting Dancing with the Stars and all these opportunities, and now I'm trying to have my Ariana moment, and I'm like, no, I'm not trying to have that at all. I'm just trying to give some more context. And also, I think, if anything, one thing that I was envious of, of Ariana, it was two things, actually. She got to just walk away from the relationship. She got betrayed, and she got to leave. It wasn't that easy for me. But also one thing that I envy, that I also have so much respect for are how strong her boundaries are, because that's something that I struggle with. And now, in hindsight, looking back, she didn't owe it to anyone to have a conversation with Tom. Not me, not production, not the network, not anyone. She lived her truth. She was real on reality tv. She was authentic. And that meant walking away. And in the moment, it was frustrating when I felt like I was picking up the pieces of a job that I didn't want to do to fill in for her. But now, looking back, I'm like, she handled that like such a boss, and I didn't handle it as well as I could have. I also felt like my entire world was crashing down on me, and the one thing I was good at doing was my job.

Heather McDonald (57:58)

So have you. You know, I know that you are happy for her and she's just killing it on, you know, and it is amazing that she's on the show that is the most talked about show right now with the Love island and doing great, and I have no doubt that you are happy for her, but where is your friendship? Has she reached out since your book came out, by any chance? Has she read it or at least read interviews in which you spoke about her?

Sheena Shay (58:26)

We haven't talked since anything has come out with the book. I did send her a copy of it, so not sure if she's gotten that ready Yet I know she said on Amanda Hirsch's podcast she's more of an audiobook girl, so it does come with a, you know, audiobook credit or whatever. But, I mean, I hope she reads it. I hope she listens, and, you know, I hope we can have a conversation about it one day. But I completely respect her boundaries. I understand that I hurt her. I hope she understands where I felt hurt in this situation as well. But at the end of the day, I was the one hiding something. And I am a really good actress, apparently, because no one fudgeing knew. I said in the book, you know, I wished she would have noticed because I would have thought she knew me better than that. But then, even after I wrote the book, I thought about it. Like, my mom didn't notice. My sister didn't notice. People closest to me did not notice because I just acted like everything was fine and dandy. So that's not her fault. That can't be on her, you know, But I guess I just wished that maybe back then those closest to me checked in on me a little more. And I like, but how are you? You seem a little off. Because I'm like, did I just fool all of you guys like that? Well, like, no one ever noticed that something was just like, why is this affecting you so much? Why are you going so hard on Tom? Why are you trying to like.

Heather McDonald (59:57)

Yeah, but, you know, I'm going to tell Sheena, seeing I just read the book. You have a real pattern. And I'm sure maybe you've realized, but haven't of you take care of all these men in your life. You know, and the same thing happened with Shay. You, Mike Shea, you put him. You know, he was on the show. You married him. You had cold feet the day you got married. You. And you have that scene with a couple of girls, and they say, and the producer says, what is off? And again, you only give half of what was off, which was. You're pretty. He was lying to you. I remember we talked about this on the first. I think the first time you came on Juicy Scoop, because I thought it was, you know, so compelling that you realized he was abusing some type of, you know, prescription drug that was not. Was not prescribed for. And he. But he was lying. He was lying. You knew that from phone situations. He barred your sister's phone. You could check on an icloud, but in the lying about where he was for possible drug and alcohol abuse, you hid at that time from the show and from some friends that you. You saw suspicious Stuff of women writing him and DMing him and all of that. So I do feel that you have a real thing inside of you to protect the men that you're with. You've been on this show for so long, and I think there's something in that. You bring these guys on, they're on the show with you, and they love you, but if something doesn't go right, somehow you feel guilty because not only is this a fight for a normal person, maybe a few friends know, maybe a mother knows, but the world knows that your boyfriend fucked up.

Sheena Shay (61:48)

Yeah, I mean, that's accurate. I don't really have any.

Heather McDonald (61:51)

Yeah, I mean, it's. And I think that's kind of like. I kept seeing it, like in reading the book, you know, whether it's, you know, the Eddie Cibrian who, you know, really. I mean, you're right. You were 21. He was 33. He didn't wear a ring. This was before Google. You didn't know he was out with you at places you weren't exclusive. But then when you guys go to Mammoth and he pays for your ski equipment and he teaches you how to snowboard and you're with friends and how would any. Why would anybody Expecting his second child with a wife? And, you know, and so that was. I was like, yeah. And that is a huge difference and age difference and everything. And so, I mean, it was. It's a very. What I think is so interesting about the book is those beginning those. Those chapters all before Vanderpump starts and, you know, you living in your. Your cute apartment. I know exactly the. The building.

Sheena Shay (62:52)

You mean the font point.

Heather McDonald (62:54)

Yeah. It also makes you a little bit sad as a native Angeleno, how much LA has changed. Because I had a similar sit though I'm older than you. Like, you know, 25 years ago when I was, you know, living the Brentwood life and doing Groundlings and Stand Up, I had all those fun stories, which is in my book, you'll never blue ball of this town again. You talked about all the guys you fucked. I talked about the ones I dry humped. But it was a lot of those fun stories that I do when younger people read it. They're like, oh, my God, you went on this date and you went on this date. Like, people don't date anymore. Oh, my God, your neighborhood sounds so cute. It kind of makes me sad. And I'm praying that, like, Los Angeles can get cute again, because it feels like, I don't know, that a girl could, like, live the life that you And I live now in LA the way we lived it, you know, it sucks.

Sheena Shay (63:44)

It's so different. I mean, just even with social media, camera phones, like. Yeah, it's changed just so much. I felt like my generation was the last one where we got that normalcy. At a club where you could go out any night of the week, see Britney Spears 2000 or 2007 in a blue wig at Ledoux, and no one's taking photos of her. You know, paparazzi's outside. It was just like, what a time, right?

Heather McDonald (64:10)

Yeah. So that was all really cool. Now, another juicy thing is kind of like you. Your relationships with, like, threesomes and girls, and even one time you. You say at one time you started to catch feelings for one of these girls. And I feel like that is something that is pretty juicy to someone like me. I don't have friends that are married to men that had relationships with girls prior. I know it's like a much more fluid time, but, you know, we. We know from the show Kristen and Britney allegedly had a. A one night, you know, eat out. And then Lala and Ariana did. And then you talk about Don. How do you pronounce her name? Danya? Dania? Dana.

Sheena Shay (64:55)

Oh, no, that wasn't Dana who I was talking about.

Heather McDonald (64:57)

Wasn't there one girl that you said when you're pissed at Brock, you made out with her at a. Yeah, Dana.

Sheena Shay (65:04)

Cathedan, like, from the show, like.

Heather McDonald (65:06)

But then there was another girl that you. I guess you don't say who it is, but, like, you kind of were like, oh, can you speak on that? Because I think that's pretty juicy.

Sheena Shay (65:16)

Yeah. I mean, this was a girl who I met at Stagecoach 2019. It was at Neon Carnival, the only time they've ever done a Neon Carnival for that. The guy who she had just been with, I guess she ran into or something with him. And then I ran into Rob and his new girlfriend at Neon Carnival, and I just wasn't in a good place. Some guys from the bachelorette show, her friend was talking to one of them. So it kind of ended up just being the two of us. At this after party, we totally hit it off. We bonded. We met up the next day for the festival, and it just felt like we had known each other for so long. We had an instant connection. And when we got back to L. A. We just started hanging out all of the time. We were inseparable. And then there was one night. I remember we're at the shop bar at TomTom, and she just grabbed my face and kissed me. And I was like, what was that? Like, I was not expecting that. But then also, I didn't hate it. And then it became a more regular thing. And then would be out, and we would hold hands, and we would have our little date nights and whatnot. And I felt like maybe this could turn into something. Like, I don't know if this is my forever, if this is my future, but maybe it's my for now, like, maybe we explore where this goes. And I felt like both of us had deep feelings for each other, but I didn't know if either side was necessarily romantic. And I didn't want to have, like, the talk. I was too afraid of rejection and her being like, oh, no, sweetie, I just kiss you when I'm drunk. Like, it's nothing more. So neither of us really ever had that conversation because I met Brock that year. She was with me when I met him. So that kind of transition of, I don't know that this is going to turn into anything, because now I'm dating this guy. And Brock was not okay with it. When I kissed her one time. When we were all out together after, him and I were already official. And so naturally, we just kind of started to distance from each other. We went from being inseparable, talking all day every day, to just not hanging out much. Then we go into a pandemic. Brock and I were living at my house in Palm Springs. I actually gave her my apartment in Marina to go to with her cat. I was like, there's just. There's more space there. Like, go and quarantine there. And he knew that, and he was fine with it. But then just slowly through the pandemic, we just kind of grew apart. And I felt like it was a slow fallout. But I also knew the day Brock and I made it official and when he got so upset that I had kissed her again once, that I couldn't keep someone close to me in my life who I did have feelings for, who, you know, I was considering exploring something with. And slowly, we just kind of stopped talking. And she had sent me a really long text, like one of those ones you have to click on to expand. Never received a text like that in my life. But after I read it, I was just like, oh, my God, did I break this girl's heart, or did she just miss her friend? Like, it was a very confusing time in my life because I didn't fully explore what that was or what that could have been, because I met Brock, and Brock and I just had a spark from the beginning as well. And that was the path I chose. And, you know, so in your wild.

Heather McDonald (68:48)

Days of, you know, really, the wild days were all kind of pre vanderpump, but in your wild days, you would have threesomes and stuff. But this is. But with this girl, did you only kiss, or would you go all the way, just the two of you?

Sheena Shay (69:03)

No, we didn't really make it to second base or anything. It was pretty much like cuddles, handholding, makeouts. Like, we hadn't gotten to the next level. I wasn't against it necessarily. It just hadn't happened yet. And had I not met Brock when I did, if we, you know, had a few more months together or however long, maybe it would have crossed another line. But it hadn't gotten there yet.

Heather McDonald (69:30)

So a couple other things. One, another thing that I thought was really juicy in the book is when you talk about how there was a editor named Bri who went on a podcast and laughed and said her favorite thing to do was to edit all of Sheena's cringiest moments together, and she got fired. Which I'm like, God, even the editors are thirsty to go on a podcast. Like, what the fuck? Like. And I think I relate to you as the pick me girl or whatever, because I, you know, when I was on Chelsea lately, we. We kind of had a heightened Personas of the regulars. And we did a show called, you know, after lately, which was like a curb your enthusiasm. We're playing ourselves, but it would be heightened stories heightened. And so my Persona was literally on the poster. The fame whore. Like, the fame. Which is like. Because I knew the Kardashians because we live near each other, and before either of us were an E, I knew them, so whatever. But meanwhile, I'm the fame whore. But you're the one that's, you know, hanging out with. With, you know, Jennifer Aniston and all these people. Okay, whatever. But I went along with it because, you know, I'm like, you ready down to do anything? Down to wear a camel toe and an open sketch and have the camera zoom in on my crotch. I did everything to keep that fucking job and provide for the family. So I totally relate to you. But that, like, that is heartbreaking. But it's also just like, I love that you included that part. And for people to know that. And part of the thing of Rob putting up the TV in seven minutes is kind of a really fun moment. I actually think that should be embraced. But it also made me go, you know, you kind of had this husband, I'm sure he was a nice guy, but Mike Shea wasn't doing that. And these other guys, and this guy actually was capable of things. And I'm like, Rob was handy, but Brock the builder is handier. He is handy.

Sheena Shay (71:30)

I cannot believe how impressed I was that the wall, like the hinges, whatever it's called, like that framework was already on his wall. He simply put it on, yes, in under seven minutes. But the fact that it took him close to seven minutes to put a TV on the brackets that were already in the wall, not so impressive. Putting a hit on a truck for the boat, not so impressive. But compared to my past relationship where I'm the one hanging up the artwork house, I'm the one fixing the WI fi when it goes out, setting up our landline, because when we lived at Park La Brea, we had no service. Just like all of those little things like I was so used to doing. So the fact that this man just put a TV on the wall, I was like, oh my God, he's a man.

Heather McDonald (72:16)

I mean, that's amazing. Okay, now let's jump to the whole Sandoval thing with Raquel. One of the things I didn't really know and I felt like I knew everything was when you found out, when she blurts out after you guys are hanging out that night after doing Watch what Happens Live where she says, I was having an affair with Tom Sandoval for seven months. Ariana just found out. And your reaction makes so much more sense when you read the book. Because Lala was suspicious, Katie was suspicious. You asked her point blank on more than one occasion if something was happening. And it was just, it was truly like such a weird gaslight situation that, that just makes, you know, it made so much more sense because it was a shock, but it wasn't totally. It was more like even a larger betrayal because you were like, we did ask. And I. And I was like, you're crazy, Lala. And like, I believe her. And all of that now, all this time passed like, what's your feelings now towards her? She, she had the podcast tell all. She ended that. She appears to be doing sound baths and like with a non entertainment person. Do you think that you would ever want to have a conversation with her?

Sheena Shay (73:37)

I think that would be up to her. She's the one who has me blocked. But you know, she's also the one who put me in the legal system.

Heather McDonald (73:43)

That was just that when that was going on with the restraining order and all that stuff, that was just shocking. Where, where Does. Where does the case and maybe you don't know where does the case. Where's the case now with her and. And suing Ariana and.

Sheena Shay (74:00)

No idea. Honestly. Yeah, Their lawsuits. Because, I mean, even when we talk, it's not about anything serious like that. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, going back to that, I just. I did feel like I needed to put that all in the book because there was so much more to the story that people didn't get, you know, and I wish her nothing but the best. You know, I hope she's happy in Arizona doing her sound baths. I think she needed to get her side of the story out on her podcast, and that's what she felt like she needed to do. That's why I wrote a book. You know, it can be cathartic, but I think it is healthiest for her to have stepped out of the spotlight. And, yeah, I mean, I hope she's doing well. You know, enough time has passed.

Heather McDonald (74:47)

Yeah.

Sheena Shay (74:49)

I'm certainly not going to be reaching out.

Heather McDonald (74:51)

And how do you feel about the Valley as a show? Have you enjoyed watching it? I mean, you show up, but, you know, you're not a part of the drama. You basically, you know, Janet's the drama, and Janet was your friend and met you at an event which people are getting criticizing her. You know, she was a fan. It's like you approach people because you saw them on a show. I mean, she's been around quite a long time to finally make it on the show. So what are your feelings towards all of that?

Sheena Shay (75:24)

Well, and also, people are acting like. I posted I was going to be at the Mondri on that day. Like, I had an appearance and she sought me out. It just so happened I went to the Mondri on that day and ran into her. You know, I think, yeah, she's getting a ton of hate right now and watching the show, I can understand why the audience has certain perspectives and, you know, hopefully one day you're able to see more of her story and more context and, you know, she has her podcast and whatnot, so it is hard to watch. Alex says, you know, he's like, yeah, everyone's saying the show's dark. Like, yeah, it is. This is reality. You know, people are going through dark shit. So it's. It's hard to watch my friends go through such hard times. You know, it is challenging to watch, and hopefully moving forward, it's a little more fun and, you know, but I think that was the reality.

Heather McDonald (76:17)

I mean, I wonder being that she, you know, was around it being your friend. We see her in several episodes of Vanderpump Rules. She was always like, at your parties and stuff. Even she probably thought, out of all the people to be on reality tv, okay, I'm prepared, I'm prepared. But the truth is, if it's a reality show, yeah, you say something and you can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle, and if it's juicy, they're going to keep it. Even if she went running up to them and said, hey, can you take out the part that, that I said about Danny essaying? Can you? They wouldn't. So, you know, there's nothing she can do at this point. She was just, you know, in an argument and when you're in arguments with people that, you know, if cameras weren't around, those things might have been said. It's like, yes, you're on the clock, but you've been vacationing and you're drinking and you're living your life. And like, you know, it is, it is really hard, you know, to, to be like, okay, what have I, you know, even when in the book, when you're like, I didn't really want to give them the, the wedding because they were like, we don't want to see Brock anymore. And then they're like, well, if you do the wedding, you know, and it's just kind of like. But then again, you know, like, I have to give them something. So, sure, let's have a fun wedding. Now, the thing that you put the wedding on the, on the show, besides us, maybe the venue giving you a deal because they want to be featured on the show. This, the show never gives you like, hey, here's 30,000 towards your wedding. Or do they.

Sheena Shay (77:53)

No, there's small budgets towards a tab for a party. It's like never more than a thousand dollars. Like maybe 2 to 500. Where it's like, okay, we have this at the tab, or you get two drinks. Like, whatever it is. There's a very, a bare minimum that gets put towards these parties. So when you see all the housewives with these elaborate parties and stuff, the network is not paying for them, production's not paying for them. We either get trade outs and we get shit for free for posting, or we're paying for it out of our own pocket. They did not contribute anything to my wedding other than we were able to get some trades for stuff because it was featured on the show. And I mean, the wedding was incredible. So I was really happy that they did end up filming it, but they didn't pay for it at all.

Heather McDonald (78:37)

And are you happy that you didn't wear a two piece wedding gown?

Sheena Shay (78:41)

You know, it would have been probably a more appropriate setting, the beach. But I wanted to go a little more timeless, a little more classic. And that's what I did. I felt like my first wedding too. I regretted the color of my hair. Just like, why would you have your wedding photos with this, you know, blonde kind of highlight ombre look like that's not classic and timeless. I wanted my dark hair. But what am I going to do? Retake our wedding photos? I mean.

Heather McDonald (79:15)

Yeah. And isn't it crazy that you know, the dress designer, you know, and his husband that, that had they said the right last name and not just Tom, where they said we saw Raquel kissing Tom. They actually told you that and you didn't inquire? You just assumed it was Tom Schwartz. How different. That's why when, when I'm reading it, which reminds me of like the Shakespearean plays that were too hard for me to understand. And I'd get these things called Cliff Notes. And the way they would describe, you know, like so many things in your life too is like that where you say, if I hadn't of, you know, been hurt by this person, then I wouldn't have gone to this party and I wouldn't have met this person and then this. I wouldn't have been on the. I wouldn't have worked at Villa. And if I hadn't worked at the Villa, then I wouldn't have got Villa Blanca, then I wouldn't have been on the show. And like, I think that's like a really a cool thing that you've recognized in your writing as well and reflecting on your life. Like, I always say that too. Like there's, there's times where you, you people go, do you have regrets? You know, and there's little regrets I have. I should have bought a playset for my sons in my backyard, whatever. I always bring that up a million times. Okay. My husband was like, you could go down to the park, whatever. I would have just liked to have a cup of coffee and watch them play. But as far as like jobs, losing out on a home that you maybe, maybe made an offer on, all of those things, I will say they all work out. Like being fired from a job, breaking up with something, they all work out. It just might take months or years. And then one day you wake up and you're like, thank God that happened. Thank God I told off that person and the relationship ended in a Negative way because then I wouldn't have been at rock bottom and I wouldn't have built this new business. Like, all those things have to happen. And so, you know, in concluding, like, there's just. It's a great book. I think it should be a TV show.

Sheena Shay (81:10)

Thank you.

Heather McDonald (81:11)

I think it should be a scripted show. And I think that's what I'm going to manifest for you in your new thing, that you will be executive producing things that would be very interesting from that time. I think there's. Now we're on almost 20 years. Happy Days was about the 50s. It came out in the 70s. People are thirsting for stuff 20 years ago. And so I think it would be a great show. I think people would love to see LA during that time. And I think you are a story of a girl that did all the right things. She went to college, she took that class. I took that same class with Marky Costello, that hosting class. All those things. Thought you do. All these things got into the beginnings of the explosion of reality tv, but not the infancy of it. You were familiar with it. And. And then also, like, as you embark on this, you know, the fact that you are, you know, committed to your marriage and that this did happen two years ago and you guys are still together and working through it, how. How is he taking it? Like, how is he. Brock. Dealing with it? Is he off social media? Is he turning comments off, like, what are you guys doing to get through this time while you also enjoy the success of the book?

Sheena Shay (82:33)

Yeah, trying to protect our piece for sure. He has had a hard time with it. You know, he's trying to stay off social media, stay out of the comment section. He will be on my podcast next week, so we will be going into more of this then. But it's been tough. You know, we've dealt with it privately for so long and for the past eight, nine months, you know, with family and the closest friends to us. But now it's out there for the world. So it's not easy, you know, having an Us Weekly cover that I'm so proud of, but then the giant word cheating across my chest. It's like, he's like, well, I was proud of you for getting a cover, but, like, I don't really want to post that on my page. And I'm like, I understand. But, you know, this is something that we chose to put in the book and it is going to be a big topic of conversation. So just know that, like, we're in this for the long run. I'm not going anywhere. He's not going anywhere. We're committed to working on our relationship.

Heather McDonald (83:35)

You know, and is. Is the thing that does tie everything together is cheating and infidelity. You know, the show started because, you know, they found out that you had a. An affair before he got with Leanne. What's her name? Leanne Rimes. However, I remember seeing that it was the first story that came out was, Eddie Cibrian is cheating with Leann Rimes, and he's married to this woman, Brandi Glanville. No one had heard of Brandi Glanville. They sought her out then. And I remember my friend said, you know, the newest housewife on real houses, Beverly Hills, is the girl that. The woman that Eddie Cibrian cheated on. So she got hired because he cheated with Leann Rimes, who was a bigger name. Then they brought Vanderpump in because you had a history and put, you know, the scarlet letter on you. And then the scannable thing exploded because that was so interesting, because not only was there a cheating layer, but it was a layer with a best friend. And I think the audience is women, and we do find this very compelling to talk about. You know, it is. It's the oldest sin in a marriage. It happens, you know, is why it's interesting. You know, if everybody on these shows had perfect marriages and perfect friendships and perfect businesses, they mostly. Those people don't get asked back, like, or they don't get. They don't get hired. Like, it's not juicy enough. And then they're like, come up with a better storyline than your kid, you know, suffering with a learning disability. Well, you're like, well, that's all I've got. Like, what do you want? You.

Sheena Shay (85:18)

You.

Heather McDonald (85:18)

You. You want me to have a. You want me to just suddenly create something? And I know none of these things are created. That's why I was like, oh, my God. Seeing these, like, tiktoks and stuff of like, I think China did it so that she could sell books and finally get on Dancing with the Stars.

Sheena Shay (85:35)

That is so not a goal of mine anymore. I'm just like, that was a dream of Sheena from her 20s and 30s. That's not a dream of Sheena in her 40s.

Heather McDonald (85:46)

So if they asked today.

Sheena Shay (85:48)

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Heather McDonald (85:52)

Yeah, I know. You know, it is so much work.

Sheena Shay (85:55)

Yeah. I mean, going on book tour right now is stressing me out. Leaving my daughter. I think I'm gonna bring her on the last leg for us because, you know, being gone for five days and I'm back for like one and a half.

Heather McDonald (86:07)

You have a, you have a huge tour going you're doing. I see lots of city wineries, which I've done those. Those are great, intimate, good food and drink. Like, what can they, if they go to your live show, what can they expect and why should they buy a ticket?

Sheena Shay (86:21)

It's going to be such a fun show. Honestly, there's going to be performances of some sort in every show. The Austin show, I'm really excited to do for those performances. I am going to be giving very fun prizes away at each show and each show is going to be a little different. I have some amazing guests who are going to join me at different cities and different legs of the tour and it's just going to be very entertaining. You know, It's. There's the 92y event with the chicks in the office that'll be more of a sit down, moderated, serious discussion. But I do have something fun planned for the end of that and the rest of it. I mean, it's going to be an entertaining, live, fun show.

Heather McDonald (87:08)

Yes. Well, thank you so much, everybody. Get the book and if you prefer audio, get the, the audio. You know where to find Sheena Shay and her podcast as well. And your dates are on there. So if she's coming to a near city, city near you and you've got questions and you want to see it, go see it. I, I do like to read a book, especially if my friends have written it and I think you did a great job and, and you know, I wish you guys the best and I'll see you soon.

Sheena Shay (87:39)

Thank you.

Heather McDonald (87:40)

Thank you.