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Julian Dorey Podcast
#295 - "Secret Scholar" on Banned History, KGB's Warning & his Viral Firing | Warren Smith
03:12:53
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- [00:00]
Warren
If I were to just sit down and describe what I've seen at colleges, people don't believe it. This is a perfect example of the group of people that claim there's no such thing as the fabric of reality.
- [00:09]
Postmodern Professor
The trans movement needed postmodernism because woman is an invention.
- [00:13]
Warren
I think we're getting silly.
- [00:14]
Postmodern Professor
Hold on here. The category of man becomes meaningless.
- [00:17]
Interviewer
This is not supposed to be a dumb guy.
- [00:19]
Warren
No, he's a professor. So we can see now how the academy has been taken over by this type of thinking.
- [00:24]
Interviewer
Where do you think that started?
- [00:25]
Warren
The 60s pendulum shifts so drastically. That generation is now the professor class. So we have this cultural movement now where everyone is going into the pipeline. The pipeline's been corrupted. But I have had cultural Media studies. I have the textbook from it, and on the front is a raised fist, Chapter one. Then it goes through. So imagine that playing out in a classroom. Hey guys, I'm going to make a documentary about Winston Churchill. But you know he's racist, right? So when these postmodernist professors are up there claiming everything's malleable, nothing means anything, like college has been corrupt.
- [00:53]
Interviewer
Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge, huge help.
- [01:00]
Warren
Thank you.
- [01:11]
Interviewer
Warren. It's great to meet you, man. Thanks for driving down from Boston.
- [01:14]
Warren
No problem. Thank you for having me. This is really cool setup.
- [01:17]
Interviewer
I appreciate that, man. We, I, I actually I was turned on to you by Alessi. Alessi heard you on Rogan, so he sent me that. I listened to some of that and then I went down the rabbit hole of your channel. And your channel is awesome. You do incredibly philosophical breakdowns that are, I think, totally fact based rather than, you know, trying to put emotion into it, which is important with a lot of these, let's call it what it is, very high octane cultural discussions we have these days. So, you know, when did you first start, like almost seeing something in society where you're like, wait, looking at this all wrong, I can lend my voice to this kind of thing?
- [01:57]
Warren
Well, I wasn't sure I could lend my voice to it, but I would say 2016, when I went to or first arrived at Emerson for graduate school for like filmmaking or whatnot. Right. And yeah, there was, they have the, the like come meet potential roommates and find an apartment at the orientation. This is the first time I'd ever heard pronouns.
- [02:20]
Interviewer
Oh, you never heard those before?
- [02:21]
Warren
No, I had no idea. And I was blanking on What a pronoun. This is a true story. There's 30 people approximately in this room. They say, okay, we're going to go around. Introduce yourselves and give us your preferred pronoun. And they started going around and I couldn't pick up on the pattern and I couldn't remember what a preferred pronoun was. Like a verb. I understand that and everything, but. And I was trying to figure it out and I don't remember what I said when it came to me, but I was something like, like we. Or like, I don't. People won't verb.
- [02:46]
Interviewer
But.
- [02:47]
Warren
And everyone looked at me like this freaking guy. Like, I had no idea, I swear. Yeah, that sticks up. But that whole year we had Trump come into office. Yeah. The pushback, I think was the pendulum just went haywire and that's when I started to question things. Yeah.
- [03:07]
Interviewer
Were you politically active before that, would you say? Not at all. Had you ever really thought about it that much or.
- [03:13]
Warren
No, I always assumed Republicans bad, Democrats good. Yeah. Can everyone. I knew, I've never known I would say even someone who would be like, I'm conservative. Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm a conservative. I don't really want to pick a, a side in that. Or I think just think it's a limiting game.
- [03:33]
Interviewer
I agree with you. There's something about like society not only wants us to have a strong opinion on everything where it incentivizes that, especially with social media, but they want everything to have a label. And yet, you know, I always talk about it. The average person votes on the 1, 2 or maybe 3 issues that are actually important to them, you know, but there's fucking 10,000 issues or 100,000 issues. And yet you'll see people, regardless of what side of the spectrum they're on, kind of take on the rest of what the team does. Once they're like, oh, my team supports this thing, that, that's important to me, therefore they must be right about everything else. And this like group thing happens and then suddenly you get ideological capture.
- [04:21]
Warren
For sure. Yeah. We're seeing some interesting moves where people are having different perspectives on the right, but I think that's more. It's on both sides, but especially on the, the left side. We'll say the pushback I get is interesting because I don't feel like I'm very political. Like Destiny, for example, recently was made a video and I made a little response to it and we had sat, we'd spoken, we did a six hour sit down, you and Destiny and some Other people.
- [04:52]
Interviewer
I'm sorry to hear that.
- [04:53]
Warren
The act man. And I think he had. He was. He needed someone to be the fourth person. It was over the summer and I forgot how it came about, but I was like, sure, I'll do it.
- [05:04]
Interviewer
And you take some meth before that.
- [05:07]
Warren
It was a deep dive, man. That guy's like, I respect the. He does have a mind for absorbing information. I think about. I'm more interested in how people think and how to. The moves that are being made. So, like, what to think is the information. And he's really good at that. The deep dives into. I know more about this topic than you, but some of the best debates I've had, I come in as a blank slate kind of where it's like, I don't really know anything. And you just analyze the incoming information and just by asking questions, you don't even need to have a wealth of information on that topic. That video we were talking about earlier about the Harris voter changes his mind. He came in with Trump is guilty of rape. And I was like, I've never heard that. Tell me about it. I'm just asking questions. And then it dissolves. That doesn't require me being like, Destiny doing a deep dive into blah, blah, blah. So we just do different things. I've been thinking about maybe he wants to do a conversation. He, you know, it would be a debate with him. But I'm not that interested in political debating.
- [06:10]
Interviewer
But my issue with guys like that, and this reflects people on either side of the spectrum, in this case, Destiny is a guy who's on the left side, is that there's no doubt in my mind Destiny's a very smart guy. No doubt about that. But he has to comment on every single thing. And it's at a predetermined conclusion. And also, I think his thoughts get out of control. He gets ahead of himself. He's probably doing a little too much Adderall. And he will, like, you know, the look on someone's face when they're like, oh, I just went too far. Didn't know I was going to say that. That happens a lot with him. And I saw that. I think you made a video on it as well. But, like, after the attempted Trump assassination, you know, I don't know if he was, like, trying to quickly, like, get a side rim joke in there or not, but when you start saying, like, I'm gonna make fun of the dude who dies because he got shot because he was at a Trump rally, it's like, you're not, not only are you not helping here, but that, that's kind of a, I mean, let's call it what it is. That's a pretty inhumane, sick thought. You know, someone that disagrees with you and has a different opinion, comes from a different worldview than you. And because he was, in this case, Cory Comparatori, who was killed at the, at the Trump rally in July, because he was at supporting someone that you don't like, therefore is fair game for me to say, haha, you're dead. That's crazy.
- [07:33]
Warren
Yeah. And then he doubled down on it, you know, ran with it, went on Pierce Morgan and that's what I made the video about. But there is also that element with, it's the attention currency. So he did get attention from it. Did it hurt him? His fan base is pretty adamant with him. I don't think he could. He recently had a worse scandal, I would say.
- [07:56]
Interviewer
What, what was that?
- [07:57]
Warren
This. I don't know, something about like leaking sex tapes or nudes of a girl with some other girl in discord. And then he's getting sued for it and it's like nothing's going to take him out because his fans are just whatever. But he, he is very smart and that's what I realized with that document that took us six hours to go through just on January 6th. But intelligence is not wisdom. It was a deep dive into everything surrounding what he called the insurrection, January 6th and all the lead up to it. The aftermath. Yeah. The false slate of electors. It's, it was illuminating. Yeah. At the end of, the end of it though, it's still, I tried to articulate the fact that we're still good job destiny, but we still have a 50. We have a binary choice here between two, you know, we have two choices. Which is the least bad option. Everything you has. If it's a fact, it's a fact. And he does a good job presenting that. But that's not a compelling case to me necessarily that Kamala Harris would be the least bad option, even with all the context that you have provided.
- [09:06]
Interviewer
So what do you think on something like January 6th? Because obviously there's been, I would say like, you know, radically differing opinions from the respective two spectrums on, on what that day was. But as someone who's obviously trying to go into it, just saying, what are, what are the facts? What seemed to happen here? What was your takeaway from that?
- [09:27]
Warren
I think it was a, it was a mistake the way it was handled. I think Trump gave people the ultimate ammunition. That's still being used so politically it was a mistake. You can't hold him accountable for indirect actions, people's, other people's actions. I understand Destiny's point around the false slate of electors and the, the moves that he was trying to do with that. I forget the name of the lawyer. Cheese bro.
- [09:54]
Interviewer
Cheese bro.
- [09:55]
Warren
Cheese bro. I think Cheeseboro. Yeah, it. But apparently it's a legal maneuver. It's a little. It was kind of a Hail Mary, hail brain, hair brained move. But I do think there has been injustice around people being locked up for years that didn't commit direct violence. Yeah, I could understand his move to pardon. I think that people oversimplify it.
- [10:21]
Interviewer
I think you're 100% right on the oversimplification. And I also. It's refreshing to hear a nuance take on it because it's one of those, like, whenever it comes up, I get killed on that by either end of the spectrum because I always say I'm like, he was dumb enough to do that day. Like, you knew nothing was going to happen. No one in that town likes you. You lost an election. You're arguing over whether you lost the election or not. You're going to invite your most rabid supporters who are pissed off, who you're giving a bullhorn to, to come to this town on that day. You're inviting the people who don't like you to take advantage of that situation. That's why I didn't feel bad for him. That said, you know, it was crazy to me. You have a guy who, on January 7, he was at like his lowest point in 2021. And I, I always look at him like all. If I were a Democratic strategist or something like that. All they had to do was just go like this and back up. Just be like, hey, leave it there. Don't pound the drums. Don't call this 911 or something like that. But on January 8th, they took him off the Internet. A year later, a year and a half later, they raided his wife's panty drawer. You know, made him stronger, charge him with all this. Then they add a bunch of more cases to it over the next year. Then he almost gets shot. It was a four year evolution of him of proving his point.
- [11:49]
Warren
Yeah, yeah. No, I think you're, you're absolutely right about that. And that's like what I've been exploring through, looking at things, through stories, because that's, that's how the public is perceiving all of this. It's the hero's journey. The hero has to have adversity, conflict, drive, story. And all of those things you just mentioned were forms of adversity that he overcame. It just makes makes him stronger. So yeah, it was a mistake. I think we can all see right now the Democrats are like at their lowest point now.
- [12:18]
Interviewer
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- [13:02]
Warren
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- [13:03]
Interviewer
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- [14:06]
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- [14:44]
Interviewer
Yeah, it feels, it's, it's a different type of like, it's a very different road as to how they got there. But it's a similar vibe to me of like Republicans in 09 after you do like 8 years of Bush, Cheney, you know, where it's just like, I mean, everything you can get wrong, they got wrong. And now it's like the pendulum shifted hard to the left. And this time the pendulum feels like it shifted hard to the right because once again, you know, in this case, Biden, Harris, they come in everything you can kind of get wrong just on like a basic level, you get wrong. Like, let's open the border. Let's double down on woke stuff. Let's double down on letting kids be trans, you know, or telling, having the government tell parents what they can do with their kids. At some point, you know, people are going to have some common sense and be like, well, that's crazy.
- [15:33]
Warren
Yeah. I don't even think it's shifted right necessarily. It's, it's like the landscape moving. A lot of people describe Trump even as being kind of a classic Democrat or classic liberal, I shouldn't say.
- [15:44]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [15:46]
Warren
Brett Weinstein, all these people, Elon Musk, Tulsi Gabbard is. So yes, it's, we've got the Conservative Party, but it's. I think it's more complicated.
- [16:00]
Interviewer
For sure.
- [16:01]
Warren
Yeah.
- [16:01]
Interviewer
But you, so you started making videos like you said. You started at least thinking about this stuff during when Trump first came up and you're going to Emerson and you're hearing some new.
- [16:11]
Warren
The reaction to it was crazy because I remember the day after the election when you won. I was working as a freelance videographer to pay my way through grad school and I was working as the videographer for the dean. So I had my camera and everything working as a one man band. So I did everything myself. And the day after the election, I took my camera to the Boston Common. There was. They were losing their minds with this protest and it was huge. I have that footage. So, yeah, it was everything that happened after that. And I remember Finding Jordan Peterson, that was like peak Jordan Peterson time.
- [16:46]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [16:46]
Warren
And the intellectual dark web and all that. It's. Yeah, it's. And I think truth and has a power that when you find that stuff and you. You're watching him debate someone, like in that GQ interview, and it's just like bullets bouncing off a tank. You see truth, you're like, wait a minute. That's. It stands out. And then you start. That's what in. That's what intrigued me was watching that hero's journey kind of from the power of, like that there is this objective reality. Yeah. And that's what interests me, too. Every. In almost every video that I've made is kind of that battle of one person thinks that there's no such thing. Either there's no such thing as objective reality or it's malleable. And I can explain this if it doesn't make sense. And then the other side, it's like. Because what Peterson was saying is nothing will improve your life more than recognizing that there is this fabric of reality that's beyond social constructs, the reach of society. Nothing will improve your life more than living in accordance with those laws. So it's like being in a boat trying to get to shore and sailing with the wind and the currents versus a rudderless boat that doesn't even believe there are currents or winds. It's like you can put an outboard motor on it and force your way through. But. So that's the analogy I would use. And so it's like discovering those currents. And then when you debate and stuff, some people, when you have one person like that who's sailing with the tides, debating someone who's coming from the opposite view, they make it look easy. And I don't think it's so much like being able to recall information like what destiny does. It's more, are you in accordance with. Those are the most interesting debates to me. And those aren't really about deep dives into politics. It's things that are much more fundamental. Whether it's, can a man be a woman, but tomorrow can I decide I'm a woman, then gain access to all women's spaces legally? Which is claiming reality is malleable.
- [19:04]
Interviewer
Yeah. And it's also. People conflate language and science these days like crazy. So they try to. It's almost like the. The tragedy of philosophy, in a way. Like you try to deeply think about something to get to a new truth that you erase all the definitions on the way and then don't have a basis to work off of after that. That's what it feels like. Especially when you look at, you know, some of the things you're referring to, like what Jordan Peterson was coming up about, which had to do with like gender ideology or there's no such thing as a man and a woman.
- [19:36]
Warren
The.
- [19:36]
Interviewer
You mean there's no such thing like the. Like there has to be some sort of agreed upon definition. Now if you want to say, like our understanding scientifically of what that all comprises of at some point will be discovered to be slightly different, that's fine. But like we were able to create life because man comes together with woman and has a kid. It's just how it is. I mean, you can fight it with your language all you want, but that is the reality.
- [20:00]
Warren
Yeah, that's the. What I was trying to get out. The analogy of like boats floating on the surface, then beneath that is subtext, but not only subtext, but that's where the fabric of reality would be, which isn't going to change, even if you want to change the. The linguistics around that. So when you are hearing someone debate something like equity, then there's this game they're playing right now of redefining what that means. No, it's just putting posters for your job opening around. It's like that's advertising. It's not equity. Equity. It has a specific meaning and so it's really looking at those deeper realities.
- [20:36]
Interviewer
Yeah. Do you think that people, the algorithms are really what unknowingly change people and remove their ability to think because it's feeding them like a consistent idea that suddenly becomes their truth.
- [20:56]
Warren
Like the YouTube algorithm.
- [20:57]
Interviewer
Anything YouTube x Instagram.
- [21:02]
Warren
I still think there's. You're gonna seek things out. I. I know I myself, I'm not. I guess it determines what pops up in my feed, but there's a lot that pops up in my feed that I. I guess that's where critical thinking will come in. Because I think critical thinking is thinking for yourself to navigate the stories that make up the world and identify the patterns that really matter, which are acted out. They're not even verbal, I think. And that's where the real data resides. And that's the game that you're playing every day, whether you like it or not. So I don't know the algorithm. Sure, it's a contributing factor, but I don't think that's what's going to break your brain, honestly.
- [21:38]
Interviewer
Yeah, it's also, you know, again, like if people. Like we were talking about earlier, if people just adopt one idea because that's what speaks them like, oh, I'm really upset Roe v. Wade got overturned. I want to be pro choice. And then suddenly that means these hundred other things. And you just kind of take that on without thinking about it, like, because I think this, then I'm gonna think all that. That's certainly an issue. And guys like Jordan Peterson, you know, when, when they came up in that era, I think part of the allure to them was that they were encouraging people to not think about things one dimensionally and look at things themselves issue by issue and make a decision. And if something seemed like, if something that, you know, more reflected what they thought their team was, seemed to not make sense, then you should have the courage to be like, well, I may agree with this, but I'm not going to agree with that.
- [22:31]
Warren
Yeah, it was. These stories are vastly more complicated than we think. For example, he sits down with the GQ interview or Cathy Newman, and it's the simple, like the inequality, pay gap with women, and it's, well, it's not that simple. And then he spends an hour dissecting that and it's. That opens the door to so many other stories that are over simplified. So, and he did it, he did it through the lens of the. Going back to the fabric of that reality. The fabric of reality, of there is human nature, it's different with males and females. And there are, there's a logic to male behavior and female behavior has a logic. It can be understood to some degree. And because he's coming at it from a clinical psychologist perspective, what do you think?
- [23:15]
Interviewer
Like, people like Kathy Newman or, you know, I forget who the name of the interviewer was at gq. Like some of these places, you know, you're dealing with people who went to university, are intellectually capable and all those things, and yet they come at, they, they come into a sit down with a Jordan Peterson now or back then whatever, regardless of the era, and someone like a Jordan Peterson and they have this predetermined idea of what they want to do, they want to be combative. Do you think that's just because they want to be combative to go get clicks because that's what the story is, or do you think that they're ideologically captured?
- [23:53]
Warren
I think it wasn't that they want to just get clicks. I think they had an idea of who this guy was and they wanted to bring him down in that interview. And that's what backfired in those two very famous examples. I would say it forever altered Kathy Newman's career.
- [24:13]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [24:14]
Warren
She. And the meme that came out of that. Okay, what you're saying is. So, yeah, you could say to some extent it was just. She just wasn't listening to what he was saying. And then doing this caricature, the surface level caricature, over and over again. It's just a tactic that was so. Became so obvious. Yeah. That it was comical. So that is an example of how that happens, for sure. Yeah. It's having an idea that goes back to how we see the world through stories, characters who's. He's a villain, you know, and then they come in with that.
- [24:47]
Interviewer
Yeah. And that's the thing, though. We're living in, like, two separate realities at the same time where the heroes are someone else's villain and the villain someone else's heroes to an extent that I've never seen in the world.
- [24:56]
Warren
Yeah. And it's, I think it's, it doesn't work like that in reality. It's not just one. A person's not just all good or bad. And that's the best storytelling understands that. A Walter White, a Tony Soprano. That's right. Right. It's. And that's one of. I'm not going to talk about Peterson this whole time, I promise. But that's his point about. If you had lived in Germany during the Second World War, you really think you didn't have the capacity to be a Nazi. It's like you're made of the same thing. It's just a matter of what were you surrounded by at that time? Are you just somehow enlightened? Because you ask your average person at a college that, and they're like, I would never. It's, that's a lack of wisdom. It's important to recognize that you have that capacity because that's where wisdom comes from, so that you can understand your capacity to go bad. And that being conscious of that allows you to avoid it.
- [25:50]
Interviewer
It's a good way of putting it. I, I. There's a line I think about all the time. I've said it on the podcast a bunch. But, you know, we throw around this term, if I were blank, than I would blank. And sometimes, you know, I'll think about and be like, okay, I'm willing to say that on this thing. But we say that for so many things that we comment on. And you, you don't know. You don't know how you'd handle certain other environments with different. A different impetus in them or a different time in the case of the example you bring up. And yet People seem to have this, especially, like, when looking at history, they have this idea that you either had to be perfect or you were bad. And that seems to be an increasing problem because I understand that, you know, we learn more about history as, as we get more information or go back and look at questions that were left unanswered. But when we start, we're kind of at this point now where any history, particularly even history that's like, net good, involving the United States or something like that, we, I would say, like across the political spectrum, you see people on either end of the spectrum trying to constantly just say, no, no, this bad. And they try to, you know, like, whitewash things in, into one category. And I get really worried about that as someone who loves history, because it's like, yes, history is written by the victors. Yes, there are certain things that are kind of like, we're not going to talk about that, but if you can accept some of the basic things that formulate the society that I feel really lucky to live in today, at some point, it feels like that will crash it down in on itself.
- [27:28]
Warren
Do you ever worry about that society crashing on itself? Yeah, man. I mean, yeah, I was talking like, with Churchill and there's that. And I think that's a fine conversation to have because he had flaws, for sure.
- [27:44]
Interviewer
Yes, he did.
- [27:45]
Warren
Because I was. When I first pitched, okay, my thesis movie or whatnot, which had to do with him, the only note I was presented with, I stood up in front of the class and present this idea. And then it's like crickets. And the feedback is, you know, Winston Churchill is a racist. Right. It's like that. And that's all I got. And yes, and now on the right, we have like, Rogan just had him on that. Daryl Cooper, which is fine. It's. I get his point. He's kind of making that point that you're making. Honestly, it's like he goes a little bit further, but it's essentially just. It's more nuanced and that's. There's nothing wrong with that.
- [28:19]
Interviewer
But yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the, the, the, the thing about that guy and I, I, especially when someone I haven't talked with yet, I'll have my opinions kind of off camera, but I'm a little careful with going at things until I've litigated the idea myself. But, you know, all right, you want to look at, in Daryl Cooper's case, you want to look at World War II and say, maybe there's a couple things we weren't told here. Fine. When you then start to meet that with confirmation bias. So let's run with that thread you just talked about with Churchill. Churchill's a racist. Every world leader of every empirical nation at that time or high level nation at that time was a little bit racist.
- [29:00]
Warren
Right. It was imperial. Right.
- [29:02]
Interviewer
I'm not condoning that. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I, for one, think that some of Churchill's policy with. With India was. Was putrid, you know, and that's. That's one example. But you have to measure things against scales of evil. And when we start then getting to a confirmation bias area where you are. You are. Even if you're not saying this overtly, but you're starting to now be like, well, actually, no, Churchill was the bad guy in the war and Hitler's still a psychopath. Still psychopath. It's like. It's like you're grounding people in that. Like, listen, you know, token one on the team. I'm still saying Hitler's a psychopath, but.
- [29:38]
Warren
He really wasn't the bad guy.
- [29:41]
Interviewer
That's gonna. I see where that goes.
- [29:42]
Warren
Right.
- [29:42]
Interviewer
I know where this goes over time.
- [29:44]
Warren
Yeah. I think that was a mistake to say. I just fundamentally think it's inaccurate.
- [29:48]
Interviewer
Yeah, it is.
- [29:49]
Warren
And then I saw someone reacting to that video two days ago, and they pulled up an old tweet of his, which I think was a mistake. Did you see that tweet where it's like, Germany back then, and then it shows Germany during the Olympics saying, Germany back then. And it's got Hitler walking through the shot saying, this was preferable. Yeah. To these numbskulls dressed up in purple makeup. It's like, maybe not the best move, but. Yeah. Do you think. Did you watch the episode with Rogan?
- [30:13]
Interviewer
I did.
- [30:14]
Warren
Do you think he pushed back enough? No.
- [30:17]
Interviewer
Love, Joe. It's the greatest to ever do what.
- [30:20]
Warren
What.
- [30:20]
Interviewer
What we do. He's the reason we're allowed to exist. But no.
- [30:28]
Warren
Yeah, there was. What was it? There was one point where he trapped himself. Daryl Cooper did. Joe kind of started to call him out. He's like, what was it? What was it? He was like, well, when. Okay, so you're saying this about. At what point did Hitler start making these moves against the Jewish people? As though he was trying to talk about, like. And Cooper tried to. He doesn't really answer it, and he starts to try, and he didn't want to admit that it was way sooner than people think. He kind of blurs that line. It's like, he was making moves way before war had really broken out. Like the Lebensborn program. What was that, 38, 37, I believe was the beginning of the Lebanon's Born program where they were kidnapping children, Dutch children, to breed human breeding to create their next generation. So anyways, it's also.
- [31:21]
Interviewer
What about the 3 million poles too, right? That they killed along the way?
- [31:25]
Warren
Yeah.
- [31:26]
Interviewer
You know, this isn't. They. They make it all. They make it all about one issue. And like, now the Internet's pushing every single thing on the Jews and stuff like that. And it's like, okay, when people do wrong, call it out. Like, I'm gonna sit here and say, like, hold two thoughts at the same time. The current is. The current Israeli government is very bad. I do not with Smotrich. I do not fuck with Ben gvir, who I believe is out now, but was in that government for a while. Do not fuck with Netanyahu. I think what they're doing in Gaza is completely wrong. And I also think that as a party that, you know, there's a lot of parties in Israel that want a minority part of the vote. They do not represent all the people of Israel. I, for one, would not want people around the world, and I know they did. And I understand this conflating me with George Bush and Dick Cheney when we started all those wars. Right. So I try to pay the same respect to the people. I. I can say all that. And I can say that, like, Mossad is extreme, extremely good at what they do, and they do some very dirty, including Jeffrey Epstein, which I believe was their operation. And at the same token, I can also say that World War II was very bad. The Holocaust was very bad. It did happen. There's all kinds of evidence for you people out there, for people who are now trying to re litigate something like this. And a guy like Hitler, who, yeah, he hated the Jews a lot. He also hated a lot of other people and hated things that in his mind weren't pure. All of that was bad. And the fact that you either have to be all here or all here on an issue as historically, like, separate, by the way, as. As something like that is where we're just in this case now focusing on one race being like the Jewish people is crazy. And it does make me wonder how many people out there who are saying these things, like, are friends with any Jewish people or something. You know, my one friend Noah used to. I'm from New Jersey, obviously, my friends are Italian, Irish, Greek and Jewish. Like, that's what it is. And, you know, Hispanic. But, you know, my one friend Noah used to say, like, where's my check? I'm like, what check? He's like, the check. I'm supposed to get a check from the Cabal. That's what everyone tells me. It comes in the mail, like, once a month. It pays me off. And obviously, the joke is that, like, you think there's, like, this big thing with everyone, but now you're just falling, trapped to the same thing. We've fallen into the trap of over time, which is that you start to. You start to pick bad people and then conflate an entire race with said bad people. I got news for you, man. Every race has bad people, and they do bad things. You know, go look at the fucking. What's it called? What's Klaus Schwab's thing? World Economic Forum. There's every race represented on that thing. I can tell you a lot of those people aren't too good, but people don't want to talk about that. Why? Why. Why are we, like, why do we go back to this pattern where we have to, like, pick the one boogeyman and people are like, it's everything.
- [34:18]
Warren
Then because we make sense of the world through narrative, makes it easier. That complexity, it's almost like our minds. No, I agree. I think what you're saying makes. Is perfectly reasonable, and it's a good way of approaching this. But to answer, yeah, I think that is why. It's just it. It's a way to simplify the vast complexity.
- [34:44]
Interviewer
You bring up the. The one tweet. And, like, I. I do try to be careful when people are just posting screenshots of some tweets, because things can be taken out of context. The one you bring up, I don't think is, like, he said what he said there. Whether or not talking about Daryl Cooper, talking about the. The picture of the. Of Hitler in front of the eiffel Tower in 1940 versus the Olympics pre ceremony. You know, he could have. It could have been, like, kind of a joke. I'll give him that. I. I don't know. But, yeah, like, do I. I did a live on YouTube back when that happened. Like, the Olympics, pre ceremony. That was cringy as fuck. And, like, you call it out, but it's an anecdotal thing, right? And it's not to say that that's not representative of a bigger pattern, that people are like, okay, maybe we should get something like this in line. But, like, society will move in pendulums and start to get in line. You've seen that in some of the elections since then already. Whereas when you're talking about a nation that had significant GDP and minus their crazy eugenics science, some.
- [35:47]
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- [36:25]
Interviewer
Very high level engineering and scientific endeavors as Nazi Germany did with a psychopath who wanted to take all the land. Lebensram. His word, not mine. You know, I don't know how you can look at that and say, you know, maybe that would have been better. You think someone like that wants to stop there? Like, people talk about Putin, oh, where will he stop? Putin has the GDP of Italy. In Russia, all due respect, he don't have 17, $18 trillion of GDP. So it's limited. Hitler had a high GDP. He rebuilt a lot of that economy. It was a threat. And sometimes I feel like people can't.
- [37:03]
Warren
But Russia has more weaponry than the Nazis ever had.
- [37:09]
Interviewer
That's true. That's true. So you're saying that. So if people are concerned about, like Putin as a Hitler, they have a reason to do that. Not necessarily.
- [37:20]
Warren
No. No, I'm not trying to compare Putin. I think that would be a mistake. I think that's one of the mistakes that's being made because people looking at, I think Churchill made the right move, that was the right move to stand your ground and not negotiate or try for a ceasefire, which they. They honestly had tried a ceasefire with. Yes, Hitler, but he was, he had already taken over year all of Europe except England at that point or the uk. He was bent on as much domination. They don't think you can compare that. It's just not quite accurate to compare the two. But my point there is just so, I think when Trump is sitting there with Zelensky, he's. That should be his. We are trusting him to make that. His number one priority is avoiding nuclear conflict because it would be the end for us and them. And yeah, that's, that's my only. I haven't. I don't have much of a. I did one video on that, and it's really all. That was the only, the only point I was trying to make. I don't think it was that nuanced. It's just like, that's the framework in which we have. That's the first principle to examine this through. I just forgot what I was gonna say, but I do that, too. Oh, and if it's. If, if you have the chance to do a ceasefire, try it. I understand people are saying, well, there's like a huge chance he'll break the ceasefire, but, okay, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Then if you can stop the bullets, let's stop them. And I understand the argument that that'll just allow them to become stronger. In the meantime, they'll rearm.
- [39:00]
Interviewer
And so it's not a. It's not a black and white solution for something like that. It never. Exactly. It never is. And people want that because, you know, they'll. They'll either say, they'll get pissed righteously. So in some ways that, oh, we've given $500 billion to Ukraine and so they decide that the issue is completely null and void, or they'll be like, throw Ukraine flag in their bio and say, fund them into perpetuity.
- [39:27]
Warren
Yeah. And what's interesting is when I see comments just on what I just articulated there. Like I was saying, that was the point of that video. I see a Warren is a. A Russian or a Putin sympathizer now. And everything's like, really? How do you deduce that from just that? So. And that's also. It's just the general. The critics. I would say that some. There's some people that really don't like me. Yeah. And what I'm doing. And I guess it's because they think I'm like, Destiny wants to debate and the conditions of debating me. He's like, I don't want to talk about philosophy or anything esoteric. Like, I don't like all that mumbo jumbo. I'll debate you on anything to do with Trump's policy. Like. Like, man, that doesn't interest me. I'm not an expert on. It's not what I. You know. But you're more interested in how people think. Yes. Rather than the information, which is what people think. And Destiny is an information guy. That's what he does for hours every day. And he's good at it. But he's going to out information. Me on whatever it is. I don't. I'm just. And for the same reason, he doesn't want to get into the philosophical or the esoteric or how, you know, this. The. The Just mentioning his video. When he made the video, it was so funny because I was. I forget which one it was talking. Oh, it was a Neil DeGrasse Tyson on, like, with Shapiro. And he's talking about, you can't make an. You can't observe an objective fact. It depends on how you want to use that fact. And Shapiro's pointing out, why is it not enough to just be able to make an observation about an objective fact? Destiny lost his mind on it and started talking about the difference between a social construct and objective fact. He's like this suit. He's using every, like, keyword for a suit. A pseudo intellectual. It made for some funny content out of that. But. So we just come. We're just different. Interested in different things.
- [41:30]
Interviewer
But he wants to try to pull you into his.
- [41:32]
Warren
Well, his. His. I messaged him, actually. I was like, hey, man, I'd be happy to chat because I think there's. He had some good points. He was. First he was analyzing. It was during his regular show. He was covering. No, I forget which one. Oh, Tim Pool verse, that new guy. I forget his name. He's like this younger guy. And they were talking about Smith, Tim Pool. You're talking about, like, the January 6th thing. And I think I made some mistakes because I was. I was just analyzing the moves, the plays that are occurring on the field of that game. And I think I made some mistakes on it. Like there was some information back information. Maybe Tim wasn't as right as he was pretending. And so he made some good points around that. Then he launched into that other video and that's where I was like, I can. Fair enough on that other one. But there's some points I think I can clarify on. On the Shapiro vs. Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Because that's the entire point of that video is how the objective reality is under attack. And that's important.
- [42:33]
Interviewer
But yeah, I actually. So your. Your channel's so bingeable for people out there who haven't seen it. We're gonna have Warren's link down in the description. All the videos are like seven to ten minutes. And you. You put them. I can tell you come from like, a filmmaker, like, director background because you put them together so perf. Clear.
- [42:51]
Warren
Thank you.
- [42:52]
Interviewer
Resolution and. And analysis of the conflict and all that. But the Neil DeGrasse Tyson one you're talking about with Ben Shapiro. It's like when I hear stuff like that, like I. I've heard Neil Science takes over the years. I don't necessarily agree with some of the stuff he says on, for example, not being open to there being. Or seemingly not being open to the idea of life beyond here or what it might do to interact with us. But the guy's so smart and. And he spent his life building, you know, as to use his words, trying to find objective fact or whatever. And yet he. It's almost like he can't hear his own words. What he's saying with Ben Shapiro when it comes to arguing. Right, right.
- [43:35]
Warren
It's like Jon Stewart. We're talking about that. It's like when you get. They can be. They can have a great reputation. You're like, oh, I'm really. I drive with everything they're saying. But they get to that one thing that doesn't fit within the larger story. And it's like, how. How can we. So that's. But that's the point that interests me. The real that space where that occurs. So it's.
- [43:58]
Interviewer
Can we actually play a little bit of this one right here? We have it up the. The. The Tim Pool. It's called Tim Pool Destroys the Left. New Star Whiz kid Luke Beasley. This is the one you were talking about, right?
- [44:08]
Warren
Yeah, this is the one the destiny was. I've gotten some criticism on this one.
- [44:12]
Interviewer
Okay, let's hear this. Are you gonna make the fentanyl case? I'm not gonna make. I'm asking you what you think happened. You're the one who brought it up. I was curious what your belief was about it. Yeah, I think that someone kneeled. I think he brought it up and so he asked you about it and then you asked him back. And I'm just curious about what you.
- [44:29]
Warren
What your. Your opinion is on it.
- [44:30]
Interviewer
I think you don't have one. I think you don't know what to say.
- [44:32]
Warren
Wind trapped. He tries to act as though he's maintaining the frame with sarcasm.
- [44:36]
Interviewer
If you can't define what Any data that.
- [44:39]
Warren
It.
- [44:39]
Interviewer
Stop it if I stop what? Define it. Define it if I stop. Stop. Define right wing. If I took the time to properly write out a definition.
- [44:48]
Warren
The same technique David Pakman uses. This guy has spent a lot of time with David Pacman. Some people call him a David Pakman clone because he's using the same techniques, but they are weak techniques and they just dissolve.
- [44:59]
Interviewer
I'm only going to speak on things I'M very informed on. So I'm not going to tell you exactly to the month that they should get if you don't have a thought on how long they should be in prison. It's fine. What you do a lot. It's fine to say we don't know how the your argument fails. You're just gonna ask hyper specific, slightly irrelevant questions to me.
- [45:17]
Warren
How is it irrelevant? And Luke Beasley just continues to play stupid. It's this dismissal of evidence that is so alarming, which is why I think this debate resonated with so many people. How is that irrelevant about.
- [45:29]
Interviewer
Because I don't think it's relevant for me to figure out because I didn't sit in these courtrooms and listen to the details of every case, exactly how long each one. How could you advocate for someone to be in jail if you don't know? Well, I can tell you.
- [45:38]
Warren
You.
- [45:39]
Interviewer
Because Trump is saying we should subvert that process because he thinks what they did was patriotic and should then pardon them.
- [45:47]
Warren
Trump is not conducting these pardons because he feels that what occurred on that day was good. I think it's that he feels that it was unfair. That's a big difference. Or.
- [45:56]
Interviewer
Or I think three years is long enough and that's a wrong stance.
- [46:00]
Warren
But. Okay. How is it wrong?
- [46:01]
Interviewer
I just explained it to you.
- [46:02]
Warren
No, no, no, no, no, you didn't.
- [46:04]
Interviewer
You said the court process should play out the way it is.
- [46:07]
Warren
You could literally count in this exchange how many times Luke Beasley says, I just explained it to you, therefore I don't need to articulate it again. It's like, right. Tim Poole does a good job of not letting him get away with that. He says, no, you didn't explain it to me.
- [46:21]
Interviewer
My opinion on the amount of time should be served for a crime is not just wrong because you like courts. No, no. I need to explain that. Why the time frame I'm asserting is should be longer than three years. No, I'm saying the default. You have to have overwhelming, compelling evidence that someone has been wronged to justify a president stepping in and saying I'm subverting the justice system outcome.
- [46:45]
Warren
Pardoning Hunter Biden disproves that argument.
- [46:51]
Interviewer
I don't know.
- [46:51]
Warren
Yeah. Looking at it now, I'm not. I don't remember what everyone was so up in arms about, but for me it was. First thing that's interesting is like how you're maintaining the frame, which is just a technique. It's not so much like the information. Yeah. So the confidence level. David Pakman does this a lot. And I, that I was noticing. But. So this is the non verbal communication, the patterns that yes, we pick up on. And I see David Pakman doing that. I had just done a video about David Pakman, so I've just been. I was noticing that. And he uses some of the same phrases. I can't remember what it was. We talk about it in the video, but it's. Tim Pool seems to be coming from that blank slate position we were kind of talking about where it's like, okay, you're the one making the assertion that they deserve this, so therefore you're the one who's compelled to have the evidence. Right. So if I'm accusing someone, I have to provide the evidence. He's simply saying, okay, you need to present your justification for why they do deserve this sentence. And I think the criticisms coming around, maybe it was something that wasn't in that cut or it's something to do with a specific case that Tim was defending with one of those people. But looking at that portion of it, it seems to be around what is the right number of years to be for a non violent crime. Like maybe because I'm just looking at like without outside information, just looking at that game, the moves that are occurring and trying to analyze those moves. Like you're watching, like you're a commentator watching a sports game game, kind of. That's the approach I started taking with it. But the video that interest. My favorite video, the one that interests me the most was when Joe Rogan had on the postmodern professor.
- [48:30]
Interviewer
Oh, the thus guy, Thaddus Russell.
- [48:33]
Warren
I did two videos on him.
- [48:34]
Interviewer
All right, let, let's pull that up because that, first of all, it's a great video. I saw that one. Secondly, I remember listening to that podcast when it, when it came out and I, that whole segment, when that went off the rails, I just kept going back and listening to like the guy's tone and I'm, and I'm hearing like how he arrived at these conclusions and I'm like, this is not supposed to be a dumb guy.
- [48:59]
Warren
No, he's a professor. Yeah, he's debated on stage. But this is a perfect example of the group of people that claim there's no such thing as a, as the fabric of reality, so how can you even live in accordance with it? It's all malleable. And he's going to make that argument.
- [49:13]
Interviewer
It's crazy. Alessi, let's hit that play and hear.
- [49:15]
Warren
Him take that a step further and.
- [49:16]
Postmodern Professor
Say that none of these things are biologically determined, that there is no natural essence to anything, fabric reality.
- [49:25]
Warren
Just think about those words, the claim that there is no natural essence, no.
- [49:30]
Postmodern Professor
Natural reality, which means that we now are free to choose our own destiny.
- [49:37]
Warren
See why this is motivating, why this is their goal? Because it is liberating for so much more ideology to follow, which we will see in a moment.
- [49:46]
Postmodern Professor
Prior to the 1960s and 70s, it was the dominant belief that if you were born a woman, you were going to be a wife and a mother.
- [49:57]
Warren
He's bringing in examples of, like, the role of a woman in a household, which is going to be a cultural idea which can evolve. But he's tying that in quickly with the sleight of hand into biological reality.
- [50:12]
Postmodern Professor
We saw, first of all, that all these categories have changed over time, which tells us that they're just inventions. They're just inventions that get reinvented all the time.
- [50:20]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [50:21]
Warren
He's so serious.
- [50:22]
Postmodern Professor
And second of all, they have served.
- [50:23]
Warren
The purpose, the greatest breakthrough of the.
- [50:24]
Postmodern Professor
21St ruling elites, because they get to put people in their boxes and control them more easily.
- [50:29]
Warren
And there's the point of how these are just tools for power. Tools of the tyrants.
- [50:36]
Postmodern Professor
Those people over there, those are black. Therefore they should be our slaves. So it's okay for us to have them as slaves. Those women over there, we don't want them, you know, working for NASA.
- [50:46]
Warren
So they.
- [50:47]
Postmodern Professor
We will have a rule against women working for NASA.
- [50:49]
Warren
Yes, but women working for NASA has nothing to do with biology. So that's a false parallel. He's just slyly slipping in there.
- [50:55]
Postmodern Professor
So postmodernists said, none of this is biological. None of this is inevitable. You are now free to do what you want as an individual. It was a liberating moment. It has become the dominant way of thinking in academia.
- [51:09]
Warren
What he just said there is very important. This has become the dominant way of thinking in academia. He's openly acknowledging that.
- [51:15]
Postmodern Professor
I have to say, in my view, it is the supreme achievement of academics.
- [51:22]
Warren
Joe's reaction to that is priceless. He's like, that's it.
- [51:28]
Interviewer
Keep this going.
- [51:29]
Warren
That's it. That's it. Really does have a bone to pick with Jordan Peterson. He did call out last video. He calls out Jordan Peterson, this appearance on Joe Rogan. So.
- [51:41]
Postmodern Professor
And this is the second. My second disagreement with Jordan Peterson. He thinks that all this. The stuff in college campuses that's crazy. Is because of postmodernism.
- [51:50]
Warren
This is a big deal. And you heard him earlier articulate that this has become the predominant way of thinking in academia. So this is important.
- [51:58]
Postmodern Professor
It has become the dominant way of thinking in academia. It is the supreme achievement of academics.
- [52:04]
Warren
It's kind of ironic. This is actually impeding the places women have access to.
- [52:10]
Postmodern Professor
Women are allowed, very much so. Into places they weren't allowed before.
- [52:13]
Warren
A woman in a changing room with a five year old daughter no longer has privacy from male genitalia, which according to this guy is. There's no such thing. He's literally going to make that argument.
- [52:24]
Postmodern Professor
The trans movement needed that, needed postmodernism to make that intervention and say, no, that's not true.
- [52:30]
Warren
Right.
- [52:30]
Postmodern Professor
You can actually be a woman.
- [52:31]
Warren
Because.
- [52:32]
Postmodern Professor
Because woman is an invention. It's a social construct we're talking about.
- [52:35]
Warren
No one is born a man.
- [52:37]
Interviewer
You're not born a man. I'm not born.
- [52:38]
Postmodern Professor
I'm saying, I'm saying that. No, I think, I think we're getting silly. Hold on here. I think it's the category of man becomes meaningless.
- [52:45]
Interviewer
Does it?
- [52:45]
Postmodern Professor
Yeah, we just did this, man.
- [52:47]
Warren
But it's not.
- [52:48]
Postmodern Professor
Yeah, no, it is.
- [52:49]
Interviewer
Of course it's not an invention.
- [52:50]
Warren
One of them has a penis and testicles. It's a male.
- [52:53]
Postmodern Professor
The thing we see, we call, call it a penis.
- [52:55]
Warren
Right. So here's where we start to move into the wacky territory and actually attack the fabric of reality and biology.
- [53:02]
Postmodern Professor
What trans, much of the trans movement now is doing, which makes me so sad, is that they're saying that I am biologically, essentially, naturally, you know, in my core, a woman.
- [53:15]
Interviewer
Oh, no, no, no one is.
- [53:17]
Warren
No one is. Because there is no such thing, according to his logic, as a biological woman.
- [53:22]
Postmodern Professor
A lot of the trans movement now is doing. This is a good word, reifying. They're making these ideas, these abstractions real again. They're making these claims that are similar to Sam Harris's claims and to old racist claims and to old Texas claims professors right there.
- [53:37]
Warren
He's equating biology with racism and sexism.
- [53:42]
Postmodern Professor
Right, because you've heard a lot of trans people say this, right? I was born a woman. That's, that's what they often say. What I'm saying is no one was born anything.
- [53:54]
Warren
You're losing me in a huge way.
- [53:56]
Interviewer
Why you don't.
- [53:57]
Warren
And this is where it goes off the rails.
- [53:59]
Interviewer
You don't think you're born a man?
- [54:00]
Postmodern Professor
No.
- [54:01]
Interviewer
What are you born? Why are you a man?
- [54:04]
Postmodern Professor
For all sorts of reasons.
- [54:06]
Warren
For all sorts of reasons. None of them being, we just decided. None of them being the XY chromosome, None of them being, you have testicles we went being, you have a penis. He's conflating how we use categories of language, which are tools made by human beings to be able to communicate. And he's conflating that with biological categories. That's why I think Joe Rogan is getting disconnected, because that's a leap.
- [54:30]
Postmodern Professor
Is there certain inventions, certain social constructs that do nothing but bad things?
- [54:34]
Warren
This is a very common tactic. There are. Because there are some categories that do bad things. Therefore we cannot have any categories. That's similar to saying because there are some bad aspects to capitalism. Capitalism needs to be overturned to do no good.
- [54:50]
Postmodern Professor
And they're only social constructs like race and gender.
- [54:56]
Interviewer
What. What is that?
- [54:58]
Warren
Like, what.
- [54:59]
Interviewer
What? Not a dumb guy. Like, intellectually, as it's supposed to be, making an opinion that is.
- [55:11]
Warren
It's like too much time in the academy, too much education. They. They get caught up in it. It's. And it's not as. That's a. That's gold right there. Just that. Not. But the segment with Rogue. And I love that. That guy in general, because I was. It's kind of like you. If I were to just sit down and talking to the camera about this and describe what I've seen at colleges and things people don't believe it. This gives us a chance to see the words coming out of his own mouth. And so you can't dismiss it. And that's why I enjoy the format. So when I say gold, it's like. That's why. It's like, oh, there's some. This. It serves that purpose. It's because I have encountered so many professors like that studying even. Okay, I'm a graduate student studying filmmaking, but I have had cultural media studies that are required at the college.
- [56:01]
Interviewer
And I said cultural media studies.
- [56:03]
Warren
Yeah. And it's. And I have the textbook from it still. And on the front is a raised fist. And it. The first chapter one is Karl Marx. And it's. Then it goes through postmodernism. It's talking. It's applying Marxism to you as a content creator, essentially as a college student who's trying to make movies or whatever it is you're making content. Which is true. How Marxism can be applied to that. How the ruling class. It went from. In Marxism claiming that the ruling class are the only ones because they're not working all day on the factory lines. They have more time to think, therefore they dominate the intellectual landscape to now applying that same logic to content creation. Right. Marshall McLuhan. The medium is the message. And so it's that that seeps down to even filmmaking. So you are literally learning postmodernism. As a graduate film student.
- [57:00]
Interviewer
Where do you think that started?
- [57:03]
Warren
Where it's. Well, they say that in France in the 60s with postmodernism, that's when it. I believe in. Well, in the 60s is when we started seeing it in America, but that's when.
- [57:15]
Interviewer
By the way, keep the mic like in front of you.
- [57:16]
Warren
Yeah, the French, apparently the French intellectual movement. Yeah, it was France in the 60s and then we saw the cultural movement in the 60s. Just think about the countercultural culture. Vietnam War for very good reasons, but the pendulum kind of went. And now that was my parents generation. So that's why I think I grew up surrounded by everyone who. It's like Republic conservatives were these nasty things in Vietnam. And I can see why they view the world through that lens, but they're not adapting to the new information as the story changes. They're locked into the old story and that's blinding them to everything now with Elon Musk. And it's like. And that's where the disconnect occurs. So now I go home and I'm vilified by like my best friends, but they're starting to get better. But when I first went home, when I went home the first time after like that viral video thing and I started making content like they were.
- [58:11]
Interviewer
Warren, how could you.
- [58:12]
Warren
That's literally. They were in tears, man. Like, oh no. Yeah, I felt bad, but at the same time I'm happy. I'm like, anytime you want to talk about it, I will talk about it. I'm not going to invade, like, and I'm just very calm about it and rationed. Like you're met with emotion. Yeah, but I'm happy to talk about any time. And I'm trying to lay out the logic as simple as I can about. Okay if I. Okay, we'll call him John. But. Okay, John, but tomorrow if I decide I'm a woman, I still have male genitalia. Like I can you acknowledge that. And it's like, but you can't say that, Warren. And it's like.
- [58:49]
Interviewer
And they can't say that.
- [58:51]
Warren
That was what I. He's. You can't. Yeah, yeah. He was saying you can't say that they're not a real woman.
- [58:57]
Interviewer
And why did you say why? Make him explain it.
- [59:01]
Warren
Well, essentially you're what you brought you. Okay, John, but look at the. But that would allow me then tomorrow to have access to this space where there could be a six year old and her mom does that. Mom, is it fair to that mom, does she have a right to decide if that 6 year old sees my junk or not? And their only logical response. It's not a logical response. The only response is, but you're not allowed to say that because they can't contend with it logically.
- [59:30]
Interviewer
You're not allowed to say that.
- [59:32]
Warren
Well, that's transphobic.
- [59:34]
Interviewer
Exactly.
- [59:35]
Warren
That's all J.K. rowling is saying.
- [59:38]
Interviewer
We're going to talk about J.K. rowling. You had some. Yeah. You had one convert. You had one conversation. It could have been longer than five minutes with one kid. We just annihilated them with, with how people run with group things. So I want to get to that. But staying on this point, how did we get to a point? Is it, is it strictly, you think, because of academia and where it got with Marxism, which I do want to come back to in a minute, but like how do we get to a point where the answer to a question is when you say why? They just say because you can't say that. And when you say but why can't we? And they just say because, like how?
- [60:11]
Warren
Well, let's walk. We, we started walking through it. So the 60s pendulum shifts so drastically. That generation is now the professor class. Those are the professor, the approximate age. They're starting to age out, they're retiring now. So but they predominantly, they dominated academia and the number of diverging perspective, conservative perspective, like I don't, I don't know the exact number, but it's very small, like 10%, something like that will approximate. So we can see now how the, the academy has been taken over by this type of thinking, right? Yeah. Okay, then what is the impact of the academy college, when we're telling kids that you have to go to college to be able to succeed. So now and there it's the only thing that you can, you can't go. You can qualify for a loan really without any collateral or like, like we'll give you the loan. You can never default on the loan, can never claim bankruptcy. It's the only loan like that, I believe. So we have this cultural movement now where everyone is going into the pipeline. The pipeline's been corrupted. I would say it's not so much Marxism. Marxism morphed into postmodernism and postmodernism has morphed into this larger story that we'll just call the left. And if you. The problem with that thinking though is it just takes that little bit of question, that little bit of prodding to now be A bigot. And we saw this with J.K. rowling. So imagine that playing out in a classroom. Hey guys, I'm going to make a documentary about Winston Churchill or make a narrative film on that. But you know he's racist, right? Here's another example. I wrote a movie. This was, I was building the world of the secret scholars before there was a YouTube channel. Okay? This kid, he's a genius and he's, it's like, is he insane or is he really a genius? And he's trying to make a flying ship that's powered by lunar power, okay? It's a, it's a movie, okay? And he's going to try and make this, this flying ship and it looks like a gypsy wagon and it can fly. I met, I pitched that Crickets. Warren, you're not allowed to say gypsy. That's racist. And I'd never heard that before. And. Okay, but what do you think about the story? Crickets? And so, yeah, that's what the experience is. Kind of like that first day of like, okay, preferred pronouns. Don't know what that is. And it just, it's one thing after another. There's protests at Emerson College because they're claiming Emerson College is racist. One of the most left leaning brainwashed colleges out there. And no one can really provide any evidence because it's all. And I was talking about this with, with, with Joe Rogan and I guess couldn't remember any specific examples. And I think the reason for that is because it's, it's subconscious. Their, their argument is that it's microaggressions. It's critical race theory. You don't need evidence when it comes to critical race theory. It's.
- [62:55]
Interviewer
You don't need micro.
- [62:56]
Warren
No, it's microaggression. I'm so racist, I can't even, I don't even know I'm racist. So I don't know that I'm. What I'm doing. I, I can't even identify that it's racist. So it just becomes a subjective interpretation on their part. If they feel like it's racist, it's therefore it's racist. So then they can use that as evidence. Next thing you know, there's 300 students parading in with placards to interrupt the faculty meeting. True story. Next day, I'm in a pedagogy course with the dean and the head of the Social Justice Center. I left this part out of the story with you. I wish I had included that. There's a Social Justice Center. The head of that office is sitting in there. And even the dean was like, this is. And he's the same generation as my parents and like, same thinking and everything. Because I remember. And in that meeting, four hour class, there was three white students. We were all told to shut up for the entire time. Concede our space. We weren't allowed to talk.
- [63:51]
Interviewer
Color, space.
- [63:51]
Warren
Right. Color of our skin, all that. I was like, this is weird. This seems like logically the opposite of treating people the same regardless of the color of their skin. But okay. Hadn't really started to wake up fully yet. Get in the elevator. Going down with the dean. It's just me and him in the elevator. And he's like. And I literally remember this. And he says under his breath, he's like, they were talking about decolonializing the canon, meaning the great works of literature that are being shared. And it's his responsibility to monitor the canon or to decide what the canon is and is it being taught or not. So he's being told that he's racist unless he decolonializes the cannon. He's in the elevator. He's like, this is bullshit. Decolonializing the canon. But he wouldn't say anything out loud in that room because everyone was terrified. People's jobs were on the line. One professor spoke out. And then. And he was the. The president of the college wrote a letter. I still have it. To this one professor who was willing to say, we shouldn't bow to mob rule. This isn't a good thing to do. That's essentially all it was.
- [64:55]
Interviewer
That's all he said.
- [64:56]
Warren
Essentially. But articulated in a professorial. Right, right. The president of the college writes a letter. I'm so disappointed. And sends it out to every single individual with an Emerson. Edu email address. Yeah, that's like mobbing him.
- [65:16]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [65:16]
Warren
Bullying him into silence. The one person who was willing to say something. True story.
- [65:23]
Interviewer
That's. Now that. That professor had. You had classes with him.
- [65:28]
Warren
Did you know? I didn't know that professor.
- [65:29]
Interviewer
She didn't know. So you don't know, like, what his viewpoint is. That that is the idea of groupthink and how it gets into things. I, I remember when I was in college taking a management 101 class, they were, they were teaching us a few different, like, you know, business terms or whatever. And they had like, you know, efficiency, effectiveness, one other, like very, you know, normal one. And then it said group think. And I'd never seen this word before. I thought, I thought they had made up a word. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like they're making up a word here, some type of term, and they explained what it was, which is the idea that when, you know, one idea is prevented, and I'm paraphrasing here, but in a large group, other parts of the group will go along with it to be agreeable or whatever, regardless of whether or not it actually has merit or makes sense or whatever. And I think about that moment all the time in my life because it's defined how I look at so many things. Because I never realized that it's probably like the most important term in our modern, like, discourse that could possibly exist. And when you tell me a story like that, that is groupthink at its highest and worst form. Because you have someone who I'm gonna. And I don't know this because you didn't know the background professor. But let's say that at this school where most people seem to think one way, this professor was no exception, and he did as well. Which means for however many years he's been there, whether it's five or 10 years, when every issue where it's like, oh, insert one coin here, I'm a part of the team. He's been a part of the team and has in good faith in that way proven himself to be a part of the team. The minute he says, wait a minute, you know, maybe the intention. He's not even saying the intentions are bad. He didn't. Based on what you told me, he's not even saying they're bad. He's saying the outcome is. The outcome has downstream effects that we should think about and they go off with his head.
- [67:24]
Warren
Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. There's a lack of evidence. If we are bowing to a mob of people that are making these claims without evidence, which is probably not a good thing to do. And we're supposed to be standing for the opposite. We're supposed to be shaping the young minds. And yeah, it's. I should have talked about that. I think. Yeah. With Joe, I didn't. I gave like a half baked version of that story. But it's just even crazy. Then afterwards I was thinking, I was like, wait, there was so much more to that. So I'm glad you never say everything.
- [67:55]
Interviewer
You want to say. I, I did. The part of that episode I listened to I thought was awesome. So you're just being critical, but you're self critical. But you know, I was also. And I'm like surprised you haven't been on a ton of more our podcast as well, because like your videos are obviously great, but you're thinking about things and you're coming at it from a real lot. Like I said earlier, like a logical lens, which is so welcome to the conversation.
- [68:17]
Warren
There's only been a few people I've said, yeah, I was talking about with you about this a little bit. And I was. There's one more that shortly after I got fired, the Free Press said Barry Weiss wants to sit down with you in person. And I didn't know who that. I googled it. Okay, cool. Free Press, like she's. And, and. But they sent Michael Moynihan, who's a great guy, cool guy and everything. And he sat in my. Right in front of that bookcase and we did this whole thing. He brought a. Hired a professional cinematographer, lights. Decided it was too over lit. And I was like, man, I do. I record down here every day. Like you can light down here, just take down some of the lights. I didn't say that. I was like, you're in charge, whatever you want to do. He's like, let's move it to the driveway. So move it out to my driveway. And we do it. And then there's a lawnmower going off and we have to stop. There's an airplane, so we have to stop every. Anyways, they ended up not even releasing it.
- [69:14]
Interviewer
And I don't release it.
- [69:15]
Warren
No. And I emailed Michael, like, are you still planning? Because at the. This is interesting. Because going into it I was like, sure, I'm not going to mention the name of the school though. I was like, as long as you don't mind that school you worked at. Right? That's my one thing of not the name. I'll talk about it all you want, but. And, and they agreed to it. And then afterwards he, we wrapped and he said, yeah, you know, I was like skeptical about whether this whole thing was real or not. But then enough people talked about it that I figured it's real. I said, well, that's not logical. Just because a bunch of people talk about something doesn't mean it's real. And he was probably like, who the hell would say that? And I was just thinking logically, like how I do. And he might have taken that to be like I'm pulling a scam or something. Because then a few days later I was driving down here, the other one, I did his actual sit down, the comedy seller was driving down to do that the next day and I get an email saying hey from him saying, hey. Just for my journalistic integrity. I just need you to share the name with me off the record. And I was like, dude, I don't know you. I don't trust you. Like, and me and him had even talked about how it's a common tactic, because Fox News were like, we want to write a piece about it, but we need the name of the school for legal. And I was like, they need a mob. And he's like, yeah, they often do that. And they wait till the last minute to pressure you, saying, we won't run it otherwise. And then he does the exact same thing, and they never ran it. And I don't know if it's because of that, or maybe it's because my address was in the background because they did it in the driveway. It might have docks the house. Maybe it was the airplanes. I don't know. But they never released it, so.
- [70:39]
Interviewer
They never released it.
- [70:40]
Warren
And then I made a video about Barry Weiss and Joe Rogan. She probably wasn't happy with that.
- [70:44]
Interviewer
Yeah, I'm gonna have to check that one out. So what would it. Would you go at her about she.
- [70:51]
Warren
She did a she. Same thing, same pattern as the student with JK rolling the presupposition around Tulsi Gabbard. I forget what. What it was, but she. She was making a claim. It had no evidence to back it up, and she got trapped in it.
- [71:05]
Interviewer
Hold on. Let me turn on your mic. It was.
- [71:07]
Warren
I remember that video.
- [71:08]
Interviewer
It was about the whole Russian agent thing.
- [71:10]
Warren
And she was making the whole argument.
- [71:11]
Interviewer
Being that Tulsi Gabbard's a Russian agent on Joe Rogan. And Joe's like, I know Tulsi.
- [71:17]
Warren
We're good friends.
- [71:17]
Interviewer
And she's like, she's a. She's an agent. She's a Russian agent. There's the proof.
- [71:21]
Warren
Go look at it.
- [71:22]
Interviewer
And then Joe's like, what?
- [71:24]
Warren
Yeah, and there's. And then he asked her, and, like, she can't. He's like, so given that you don't have any proof, do you think that's a good thing to say? And she's like, well, it's known. I don't. I don't know how I know, but it's known. Which is exactly what that student said in that first video. Well, a lot of people have somewhere said. Right. I've heard a lot of people say it, so it must be true. That's all I was trying to say to Michael, that I was like, dude, just because a bunch of people. I'm not lying about this. But your logic is often. He was like, probably not that's so.
- [71:52]
Interviewer
Disappointing though that they didn't.
- [71:54]
Warren
It's. I mean I went on to have. You can't complain when you get to sit down with Jordan Peterson for two hours later. So it panned out. What.
- [72:01]
Interviewer
What was that like sitting with him? That was a guy that would.
- [72:04]
Warren
That you really deeply respect. It's like one of those moments that Angel Rogan. Those are two things I'll never forget. But it's interesting how I feel like sitting down with Jordan Peterson. I feel like that one win it way better for some reason. Like he was. Joe just has a different style and wasn't Joe at all. It was me. I feel like I. Because with Peterson there's this thing where he talks about you just you can feel when your words make you feel weak or strong. So I said that's how I'm gonna go into this. And I mean I, I promise myself if I ever do get the chance to talk to Jordan Peterson, I'm just gonna be like completely honest. And what the. He talks about that just letting the cards fall where they may. And that's the philosophy I took is like no prep really or anything. And I feel like that made for a much better conversation in the given also the way that he psychologically can guide a conversation and the premise, the framing of it. There was a better story as well on the. On Rogan's. Most people watching that one are like who is this guy? And I didn't talk really as much. He opens it up with yeah, and you got fired. And I just kind of moved on from it. Right? I don't. And that's what people wanted to hear about. So then they're like who is this guy talking about Heath Ledger making movies and stuff? Because they don't know anything about it. So then it's less interesting. Here's the thing.
- [73:25]
Interviewer
You're like, it's funny. We were talking off camera before this and you're like very self critical and you know watch everything you say. And I, I appreciate that a lot because you want to put the best foot forward. But people like when they see someone like you who makes very straightforward, very on topic, very niche type video on one specific thing where you get to demonstrate your power of how you think they like then learning about how that person got there.
- [73:51]
Warren
If they know right. If they've seen the videos maybe and if they. And those people seem to enjoy it, but it's like looking at it and I shouldn't tell me. He's like don't read the comments. And he's right. But the person who is, like, who is this guy? Like, I didn't do a good job of setting the stage or anything to then make that interesting. Whereas the whole Peterson conversation, it was around that journey, so. And also with. With Rogan, there was no. There was no lead up with Peterson either. But I just, like, walked in, we just sat down, and I was like, whoa. And you're on. You're. You're on, like, the biggest podcast in the world. And it's pretty cool, though.
- [74:24]
Interviewer
I'm glad. I'm glad he. I mean, we wouldn't have found you if. If. I mean, maybe eventually we would have, but that's how we got turned on to it. I know a lot of people probably went to your channel.
- [74:33]
Warren
So you think it went okay?
- [74:34]
Interviewer
Yes. Yeah. I listened to, like, the first hour of it. Unless you listen, like, all of it. Right, right. Yeah, it was very good. You thought it was good? Yeah, of course. I. I thought that's what made me interested. I was like, oh, this guy's thinking deeply about things versus reactive responses. I could tell because you take your.
- [74:51]
Warren
Time when you respond.
- [74:52]
Interviewer
It reminds me of that Keanu Reeves interview where they asked him a question, he just sat there and then he answered. Or like, don't think it's the wrong way.
- [74:59]
Warren
Like, Kanye was some moment. He's like, I'm going to take.
- [75:03]
Interviewer
I'm going to take my.
- [75:04]
Warren
My moment. Wait.
- [75:05]
Interviewer
And I was like, I. I like that.
- [75:07]
Warren
I'm like, that's funny.
- [75:08]
Interviewer
Would have been better to say three years ago, but that's.
- [75:11]
Warren
No, I get it. I get what you mean. Because that's funny. Because I thought I. I didn't take enough time on that one. Like Peterson. I did. And that one, I was just. But it was. It was a lot of fun, man. It was a great conversation. I just feel like we were just talk shooting the. You know, and most people are like. But it was a lot of fun. It was a moment I will never forget. And I feel like I didn't quite articulate that enough to him, just how much it meant to me either.
- [75:34]
Interviewer
I'm sure. I'm sure he got it. I'm sure. Because he sees what you're talking about and there's got to be a piece of it from a philosophical standpoint that he's like, ah, that makes sense. That, like, he listened to me coming up. You know what I mean? Because that is what the allure of him was when he was first coming up. It was just trying to stay strictly with what's the logic of the situation. Remove your emotion. What do you, what are the facts here? How can we best find them? And, and you know, I think the political spectrum is different now and I think everyone gets, you know, pushed in different ways. I don't, I don't think he's any different with that, but he's certainly a guy that, from a, from a deeper thinking perspective, I've, I've respected a lot in the past. And, and I think it's, I think it's cool when, you know, the new era of that gets to, you know, kind of cross pollinate with him a little bit.
- [76:21]
Warren
He's getting so much hate right now. I guess I don't know how much of that is real or not. The. Because I look, looked at comments like I shouldn't have on. But it was funny. YouTube, you look at your positive sometimes I try to, but, you know, I tried to, but you're looking at it on Spotify it was like all negative. And it's almost to the point where it looks like bots because it's, I don't, there's.
- [76:47]
Interviewer
There, there's. With guys like him, I, I can't give you percentages. I can't sit here and give you the exact evidence of stuff, but there's no doubt that there's some unnatural.
- [76:57]
Warren
Because how could there be such a discrepancy between you two in this other platform?
- [77:02]
Interviewer
I think that's a fair question and I think that's probably, I mean, look at, look at the attacks he's taken for so long. My biggest wish of Jordan Peterson, my biggest criticism of him has been one thing over, over the past few years. Delete your Twitter. Because he reads everything and he comes at things like I, it's, it's human nature. This is another one of those perfect situations of like, like be very careful saying, if I were blank, then I would blank. I've never dealt with the kind of, that he has dealt with now for Christ, like nine, 10 years. It's been like a decade, right? So the, when, when you get pushed, it's like the physics law of life. For every action there's an equal opposite reaction. When that reaction is like this human nature says you're gonna punch back like that. And I think that, that he was so viciously, unfairly attacked, taken out of context, villainized all these things. And now while this is all happening, a lot of people were loving him. A lot of people were seeing through that which I think sometimes we lose sight of. And he might be no Different. But it got to a point where, especially from behind the keyboard, where people say, you know, fuck you, die. I think that got to him too much. And there's things in his Twitter that to me, I'm like, damn it.
- [78:22]
Warren
It.
- [78:23]
Interviewer
So I'll give you an example. It was actually one that hits close to home. He, he. You know what I'm talking about. The Hoboken hasn't had a traffic death in like, what is it, like eight years or something like that, Right? So we, we got a really good system. This is a great neighborhood here. We got a really good system with the lights. They're all delayed by like six or seven seconds between the walking symbol. And I studied this stuff, but, you know, so the AP wrote a story about how new or what was the title was like, hoboken's traffic laws have prevented no deaths in the last eight years or something. And Peterson took a screenshot of that title and he said, this is your woke agenda or something like that. And I'm just like, doc logo. All right, this is, this is a good thing.
- [79:10]
Warren
All right.
- [79:11]
Interviewer
I don't give a fuck whether it was Republican, Democrat, or, you know, the fucking lemon peel over there that made this. People aren't dying. The roads are pretty safe. Yeah, here it is. You have become pathetic beyond comprehension at ap. And the woke death will soon visit you. And the. And, and it's literally, the title is A New Jersey city has that limited street parking. Hasn't had a traffic death in seven years.
- [79:35]
Warren
Yeah, man. You know, like, I've just been off Twitter.
- [79:38]
Interviewer
Good for you.
- [79:39]
Warren
I don't. I have.
- [79:40]
Interviewer
That's what he should do. Just get off Twitter.
- [79:43]
Warren
Yeah, I, I hate seeing the recent stuff with like, him and Candace and I don't know what to make of any of that. It's just.
- [79:50]
Interviewer
You don't know what to make of it.
- [79:52]
Warren
Well, I mean, what do you make of it?
- [79:56]
Interviewer
I think, I think it's what I said. I think people when they're, when they, when a finger is thrown in their face over and over again, we are, you and I are capable this. Everyone listening is capable of this. You can eventually become what they want you to become. There's a human psychology of that. And it's not to say they've. They be. Candace is a little bit of different story. But it's not to say, like he's done that, but are there aspects of him, like when they were trying to say you're just a right wing troll or something like that 10 years ago, are there aspects of him, where now you can point to it and be like, it might not be your intention. You might be having a bad morning, but do you see where the people who don't like you can take something out of context and now define you this way? And again, who the am I? I never dealt with something like that.
- [80:40]
Warren
That.
- [80:41]
Interviewer
And, like, I would love to think I would deal with it the best way. I'm also from New Jersey, though, and I don't know how much, you know people from Jersey, but, like, we punch back. Yeah, we punch back twice as hard. I'm no different on that. So it's like, I do try to look at guys like Peterson. I try to look at guys like Rogan, who dealt with ridiculous attacks for two, three years there during the pandemic on stuff that he was much more right about than the other side. And it's like. Like, you know, I think he handled a lot of that extremely well. And so I take that as like, oh, there's a lesson from the goat. Like, okay, what do you do? Do you log off here? Do you not comment on this thing? It's never going to be perfect. But, you know, I can. I can learn from the great things people do. And I also have the benefit, when you're coming behind people like this, to learn from the things where it's like, oh, they could have done this better because they had to face it before. I may have to face it or you may have to have to face it.
- [81:34]
Warren
Yeah. I hate seeing the division and the stuff going on.
- [81:38]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [81:38]
Warren
With Daily Wire and all that. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
- [81:41]
Interviewer
It's like Alessi was saying, like, it's almost like independent media became the media there. Like, from a business perspective.
- [81:49]
Warren
Yeah. And you saw Jeremy Boring. Right, Stepping down.
- [81:52]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [81:53]
Warren
Yeah. It's like this. There's these two factions forming. It's just like, what are the two.
- [82:00]
Interviewer
Factions in your mind?
- [82:02]
Warren
In my mind. I mean, I guess you could say it's around Israel, but it seems to be more and more. There's just a lot of people that don't like Daily Wire and Jerry. I think it was. Yeah. And I understand it. I stepped in this on Rogan with Brett Cooper. Next thing I know, he's asking me to explain the Cooper situation. I was like, oh, God. And then you get flack for that because people like, why are you talking about driving drama on Joe Rogan or anything? But it was interesting because it definitely played out into something bigger. And then he had Ian Carroll on. I'm surprised he didn't talk about it.
- [82:34]
Interviewer
At all, but about the LA Wire stuff.
- [82:36]
Warren
He's the one who kind of like broke the whole but yeah, no, I think they made this goes to the I think it's a really important idea. It's not what you do, but how you do it. So the school that fired me, they could have gotten rid of me easily without it it posing whatever threat they view it as like they there's so in the same way they could have parted ways with her and relaunched the show. I think there were some mistakes made. I can. I don't think I believe them. They didn't have hire an acting coach or anything. And I probably should have clarified that. I hope I didn't piss anyone off when I was talking about that.
- [83:14]
Interviewer
Yeah. For people that didn't hear the Rogan podcast, can you just briefly give a.
- [83:17]
Warren
Well, he just. Like I said, I was talking because we were talking about movies and everything. I Death saying the daily wires positioned to really do something if pin dragon cycle lands like Game of Thrones. It's a big if. But. But this recent Brett Cooper stuff is gonna probably throw a wrench in that and it's definitely going to now.
- [83:34]
Interviewer
Yeah, but what? But what?
- [83:35]
Warren
And he goes. He goes. Exactly. That's what he asked me. He's like, what Brett Cooper stuff? Oh, Lord. All right. And I Jamie, are you familiar with this? And he's like, yeah, I've heard a little bit. So I tried to break it down as basic as like what we actually know. And he's saying, why did she leave? But we don't know NDAs and everything. Okay. We can kind of think it through and speculate. She's pulling more views than almost. I think she was the second biggest, maybe the biggest that time now that Candace was gone, she probably wasn't. She's like, I'm not getting paid based upon the views. Maybe I'd like to renegotiate. Maybe I want to. She just bought a farm. Probably the commute. She was probably just kind of. Now we have new evidence though of like indicators data that shows probably maybe there was something between her and Jeremy boreing it. So I kind of just like stepped stepped into that trying to explain this thing. And he's like, but I don't get it. I was like, yeah, we don't get it. We don't know what's going on. So I couldn't really answer it adequately. And I, I But I do think, yeah, now they're getting flack like Ian Carol saying that's what screwed them over was trying to enter the realm of filmmaking and everything. And that's why Jeremy Bor is gone, they think, and because it's driven them in debt. And it's because it is making a movie. The. One of the worst things you can invest in. It's like nightclubs, restaurants and movies. It's one of the most difficult ways to make your money back, to make a profit. It's so difficult there. His whole point in their philosophy was that it. The culture that's a. Hollywood has a foothold on the culture. It's like the factory of dreams. It has impacted the culture. So if someone could. And we don't have an alternative to this union model, that's so. It was exciting to me to see someone offering alternative. We have angel studios. They were even partnering a bit for distribution with Daily Wire. But it's. Yeah, they could have done it. They, they did make mistakes there. And then the story. Because this goes to how we view the world through stories. And then there's a villain now and the story catches momentum and becomes larger and larger. And that's what this is an example of. It just snowballed because of not what they did, but how they. They did it.
- [85:44]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [85:44]
Warren
What he came out and said afterwards.
- [85:47]
Interviewer
Yeah, I, I don't. I'm not the most like read in guy on that because, like, I don't. I never really followed Daily Wire content, but I have seen from afar just over like the Twitter drama, like over the years. And that guy was always in the middle of it, obviously. Like he. The guy, Jeremy Boring, he's. How. He's running the ship or whatever. But it, it felt like. And unless you was making this point off camera, it felt like in this case, you know, with respect to calling it independent media, this is a conservative independent media outlet. They're. They're upfront about that. So that's. That's their side, but they're. They were trying to market themselves as like the, you know, the antithesis of the mainstream media. And yet the same exact kind of backroom suit seems to be happening there. You know, like pulling the strings like that. And it's kind of.
- [86:34]
Warren
It's big money.
- [86:35]
Interviewer
It's big. Exactly.
- [86:36]
Warren
It's gotten big. So I. It's still alternative in the sense it's not like CNN or one of the. You know, it started as this. Yes. They had seed funding and. Yeah, I think there, there was some.
- [86:50]
Interviewer
Yeah, I guess we'll see. Ian. Ian's a Internet friend of mine, but he's gonna Be coming on the show.
- [86:56]
Warren
Oh, cool.
- [86:57]
Interviewer
In a couple months. He. He was all over that one. So I'd like to see, like, where it's played out to at that point and, and, and see what he says about it. But, you know, I just forgetting, you know, the outlets that may lean one way or the other with independent media, it's something I'm really thinking about as, as being a part of it. You know, you're looking at our fucking operation in her quotes right here. You know, this is like an underdog kind of thing. I love that. But, but, you know, especially as society moves in these pendulums over time, which it always will, you know, you look Since World War II, you got Truman, Eisenhower, you know, JFK, slash Johnson, Nixon slash Ford when he gets kicked out, Carter, Reagan. Reagan bought four years of H.W. clinton, you know, Bush, Obama, Trump. But like, it goes back and forth. So that's gonna, that's just how society runs from one spectrum to the other. So I think in the middle of that, if independent media is going to solve for the sins of mainstream media, we need to be very careful to not fall into those same traps. And that includes the business side, which is what you're pointing out right now with Daily Wire and making it, you know, a bunch of suits saying what content's going to play the best versus, like, what are we covering here and what type of truth are we trying to get to, Right? And then the other part of it is also bias and not, not teaming up with any political party or things like that, you know, and unfortunately, we're all defending people in independent media right now. Sometimes it is just how things look rather than how things are, which is a shitty part of our world. But we do got to be cognizant of that, you know, and I'd like to think I am, and hopefully I'll. I'll get better at that too. But, you know, that's why when I bring people on here, I'm trying to bring people from all spectrums. I stay away from extreme political stuff as much as I can. But, you know, it should be like, people learn more listening to entertainment, whether it be on my show or other people's shows, but they also are in a position where they can make their own conclusions about stuff. I don't want to sit here and like, what's that, what's that term? Why is it not like, I don't want to be like, oh, he's the thought leader or whatever, like, stuff like that. I'm like, like, no, I'M the independent media covering different. Talking to different people, shooting the. You guys all make your own call. Like, that's. I. In an ideal world, that's. We'll be 10 years from now looking back on and we'll be like, all right, that's where we are.
- [89:32]
Warren
Yeah, yeah, you're doing a good job.
- [89:38]
Interviewer
I'm trying. Well, let's, let's, let's, let's get to.
- [89:40]
Warren
Your, get to your story a little.
- [89:42]
Interviewer
Bit because I, I did want to hear a little more of that when you were on Joe's show, but you were going into some other stuff that I thought was really good. But you. Were you a teacher right away after school or how did you get into teaching and, and who did you teach without? Yeah, you know.
- [90:00]
Warren
No, I could talk about anything. I'll talk about whatever. Yeah. So grad school, I started teaching some classes at Emerson and I still teach one to two classes a semester. I developed a class like how to make a living with a camera and which is essentially what we're doing. You know, it's. Whether it's narrative or whatnot, most of the people taking the class now are doing this kind of stuff. And so then I'm like, okay, I need a full time job because I'm not going to make enough just doing that. And it. Who gets the professor kind of positions? I was like, I'm not going to hold my breath like, anyways, so I, I ended up at a public school, regular, average public high school for a year. And then Covid hit and I was teaching the same thing. And yeah, it was a really cool department because it's kind of like there's the wood shop teacher. I was like the digital vocational how to make a living with these tools. Covid hits. And because of the teachers union, they cut all first year hires regardless of performance. So that's kind of one of the bones I have to pick with unions is the fact that it allows things that like that to happen rather than how you're doing your performance or anything.
- [91:12]
Interviewer
Right.
- [91:13]
Warren
And through. Yeah, that was a turn of fate that I found myself at this school that was still open during COVID Therefore, behaviorally challenged students and some students. There's two floors. Like students upstairs have more physical serious handicaps or drawbacks like down syndrome, whatnot. Downstairs it might be what you're. They were either too much of a bully, too bullied in a gang struggle with drugs, whatever. Like, so those students need somewhere to go. So the, the public schools pay $25,000 ahead to send Them to this school.
- [91:56]
Interviewer
Wow. And what is. What, what. What age are we?
- [92:00]
Warren
Are we still middle school and high school? Okay. Mostly high school, though. So the first three years, I was just working with high school on one site. I grew the multimedia program, then had my. Then I opened it up to the entire building, so both floors and all the students and. And I had my own space kind of like across the street. And across the street I had my own space. And it was really cool. And that's how I fell into it.
- [92:26]
Interviewer
Okay, and how many years did you spend?
- [92:28]
Warren
I was there four years.
- [92:30]
Interviewer
It seems like the way you talk about it, it was very fulfilling work. Like, you really enjoyed working with the kids.
- [92:36]
Warren
Yeah, those kind of students. You know, it's. It's challenging. It's. We're all on walkie talkies because fights and things can break out any time. And we go through training to where we can go hands on if we need to.
- [92:49]
Interviewer
Oh, you got left up book. We can't test that out.
- [92:54]
Warren
We don't bunch them. But yeah, man, a lot of stuff, like, yeah, craziness. So it keeps you on your toes. It felt kind of like this is how it should be. In an ideal world, it would be like the special forces of education, right. Small teams working with, like, the most challenging students. But what, in reality, what ends up happening is it's kind of. Many of them are kind of bottom of the barrel. I don't give a crap, you know, and so that's some of the flaws I saw. It was kind of the people making the decisions didn't even work in the school. And this is the problem we're seeing in colleges, high schools as well. The administration's growing massively. So outside my room across the street, they would have their quarterly meetings or once a month meeting. So I'd walk out of my, like, lab and there would be 20 many people meet. And I didn't know a single one. I'd never seen them before. I mean, except for these meetings.
- [93:50]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [93:50]
Warren
And they're the ones making all the decisions. So it was a business, the. With a board and everything. And they're making the money, $25,000 ahead. It's churning them out. And then it's like, okay, well, how do these students get accepted? You would think there would be some kind of protocol or policy, because if they don't get accepted there, they don't have many other options. But what would happen is they would just tour them through and then they would be like, okay, you think we should accept this kid? Or Not. And oftentimes it was. It was just like five people kind of being like, sure and vote. It was kind of what I saw was, this person's gonna make our life too challenging, so let's just say no. And it's like, well, what's going to happen to that kid? So there was a lot of that. It's all. It became this thing where the. The adults are just trying to keep their lives as simple as possible and then kind of forget what we're trying to. Trying to do. So. And it's just run as a business. There's a lot of those types of schools within.
- [94:44]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [94:45]
Warren
This district. There's multiple of them and they're all running around this kind of business model and no one knows was really what's going on there. And they're. They've never had to worry about anyone knowing what's going on or seeing or caring. So when that video went viral, I think it was like a. Caught everyone off guard, caught me off guard. So I think it was more just having a teacher there suddenly. And clearly I'm going to try and run with this opportunity and give this YouTube thing a go because I'm not making that much money doing this. It's like. It's almost like you take that job because it allows you the schedule to try and grow something else. So I'm not going to sacrifice trying to grow something else because I can't do this for my whole life. I can't afford it. It's just. You don't get paid much. Yes. Yeah.
- [95:32]
Interviewer
It's a thankless job.
- [95:34]
Warren
So when you do, suddenly this door opens. Yeah, I'm going to run, see how far I can go. And I think that scared them because they saw I wasn't stopping, you know, and so I think that's. Yes.
- [95:44]
Interviewer
You never said the name of the school in your videos ever.
- [95:47]
Warren
No, they, they. Their big thing was like, hey, if you sign this document in NDA, essentially saying, you know, it would have given them control. My YouTube channel will pay you all this money.
- [95:57]
Interviewer
We'll pay you all this money.
- [95:59]
Warren
Yeah, yeah. They said, we'll pay you for the end of the year plus this bonus. And then I had. I got a lawyer. Peter Bozin helped me get a lawyer. She reached out. She's like, look, man, this guy's got a. My audience at that time was like, 50,000.
- [96:10]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [96:11]
Warren
But she was like, look, he has the potential to grow. It's not worth the money that you're offering. So she got him to raise it. But it's still. She looked at it and it was like, you should. These were her exact words. She goes, I've done a lot of these negotiations, and usually I tell my client, just take the money, because who cares? Why do you need to be able to talk. Talk about this, just move on? But I wouldn't sign this. If there's any way you can afford to pass on this money, and I needed that money. She's like, you're going to be looking over your shoulder the rest of your life. Because if you ever. All the HR called me. The only contact I got from the school around this thing was, so you need to get a lawyer to look at this. It's just a document saying that. That you won't say any lies. You won't lie about the school. It was not. I was like, sure, sign me up. I won't lie, like, if that's all it is. But no, it was. It would have given them control over the original, that viral video. There was narratives that I had done with the music teacher that were filmed, like, in part a scene we did in the classroom or in the recording studio. You know, it's like. Because that's where a lot of the tools were. We would film after school and stuff. And it would have given. Technically, given them control of that. And for the rest of my life, they could have. If. If they had ever found a way that I'd. Oh, I'd breached it. They would just take all that money back, and I'd be looking over my shoulder the rest of my life. I just wanted to. She goes, if you just don't say you can move on with your rights, they call it your rights intact. Yes.
- [97:32]
Interviewer
It's good advice.
- [97:33]
Warren
And so I bit the bullet. I'm so glad I did. So glad I did.
- [97:38]
Interviewer
You were making some money, though. And even though the audience was smaller at that point, you were making some money on YouTube.
- [97:43]
Warren
2,000Amonth. Okay. So 3,000amonth. So I was freaking out, man.
- [97:47]
Interviewer
I was like, but you're still a teacher. At the time.
- [97:50]
Warren
When I got fired, I freaked out because I was like, I'm not making enough.
- [97:53]
Interviewer
Right, right. We're gonna get there in a minute. I. I just. I want to stay on this track because that's wild. So they were. If I'm understanding this correctly, they were going to basically take ownership of your channel once I got fired, they.
- [98:07]
Warren
That was like, we'll pay you for the. We're gonna. So that's. They try and act like it's standard, like we're gonna pay you what we owe you. If you like the right. Like you're. The salary we owe you, Even the money we owe you for the time you've already taught. No, they were going to give me that, like, to the end of this week, we'll pay you for like there was two, like a month left in the year. This was around June, I believe.
- [98:30]
Interviewer
Oh, so this is when you go to get fired.
- [98:32]
Warren
I get fired. And then like three days later, I get a call from HR with this document and they email it over and that. I never hear another word from them. And I was not. I was like, I can't even afford a lawyer. And so eventually I did bite the bullet and she worked for. For what? She didn't charge me what she should have. She charged me like 2,000 to do all of it.
- [98:54]
Interviewer
Oh, that's nice.
- [98:55]
Warren
Two or three thousand.
- [98:55]
Interviewer
Nice lady.
- [98:56]
Warren
Yeah. Because she knew I was in a pickle.
- [98:59]
Interviewer
I want to go back for a second, though, even before this. So I like to actually kind of similar to you with your background, I like to see the, the. How people's stories generate and how their worldview generates. So to me, the way I'm looking at it, correct me if I'm wrong, is. Is two kind of seminal things happen. On the one hand, you go to Emerson to pursue, you know, your dreams and your passion what you love, which is obviously like making films and getting into that end of the industry. And you encounter this new kind of like group thing. Very weird. Call it maybe like Marxist ideology.
- [99:35]
Warren
Well, let me, like, I. What? I. I wasn't trying to get in. I had been in LA for two, you know, almost three years. I was trying to become a professor or a teacher, something like. I loved working with a camera, trying to connect with an audience. Never really. I had made. I had produced, written and produced a feature film, some short films, but I was. No, I wasn't. I didn't see Hollywood any in my future. And I still. I don't. I still don't. I think it's. It's not a lifestyle or a game I want to play. So I was trying to find. My parents were both professors, so I was like, this is a cool way to do what you love, to teach what you do. And so that's how.
- [100:16]
Interviewer
Anyways, okay, so you're trying to get into the teaching side of it, but you're in like teaching within, like filmmaking and media and stuff like that. So it's towards your passions. Okay. You encounter this kind of ideology and you're like, that's interesting. And this is a world that I'm maybe trying to get into. And this is how they never thought.
- [100:38]
Warren
I would be doing this kind of in that world, like sitting with Peterson or Rogan or something like that. Like I was a consumer of that world. I liked it. Never thought that would be the kind of content I made.
- [100:48]
Interviewer
Oh yeah, that's not what I mean. I mean like the world that the people who were saying these beliefs are in, like the professors and academia itself. Right. So you're kind of thinking like, huh, this is interesting. They all think like this and I'm going to be a part of that. So that's got to be a little weird.
- [101:03]
Warren
Yeah, yeah. But I figured I, and I still teach that class. I just wouldn't allow that to enter in my classroom. It's, you know, I mean, it's not like, yeah, being a professor would still be a really cool lifestyle.
- [101:20]
Interviewer
So you still think that. But it's strange to see what the culture was becoming.
- [101:25]
Warren
Yeah, the college has been corrupted.
- [101:27]
Interviewer
This is helpful. I want to make sure I have this right. So that part happens. Then one thing leads to another. You end up teaching not at a university, but you're teaching at a high school. You end up in this middle school and high school area where you're working with kids who have some difficult challenges. And so you know, to do that kind of job where you're not getting paid well at all, you and you know, you're working with some of the more difficult type of situations like that. That takes a lot of heart to do that. And like I for one have so many. I, I wasn't in a situation like that, but I have so many teachers just from school growing up who I'm sure never made any money but like got me to where I am today that I'm so appreciative of. So it's, it's, it's a thankless job job, as I say. But you're doing that at a young age, like you know, in your 20s, working with these kids, 30s, the early 30s, working with these kids and you're starting to form these worldviews. And now suddenly at, at the level of children and education, which is supposed to be in theory like the purist, like open minded. We're gonna go try to educate the next generation. You're seeing a business around it with people who have nothing to do with what happens in the classroom, trying to dictate what happens in there. And so you're seeing the reason I'm Bringing this up is because to me, you're seeing two different things here. You're seeing like a cultural shift group think ideology that seems to be permeating spaces that it shouldn't permeate. And you're also seeing that the world, even at the level of things that are supposed to be pure, is running in like a. In a business standpoint rather than what's best for the kids in this case. And so I would imagine that's got to be disheartening and maybe even lead to some cynicism.
- [103:13]
Warren
It was definitely disheartening. It felt like I was in a game often where it's so. It's so surreal. It's so hard to describe. That's why I like doing videos like that where they're saying the words. You have the evidence. I can describe it for you. But it felt. So there's the principal and assistant principal that hired me, got taken out out on the same day in this kind of coup a year before me, there was two factions that emerged that were kind of vying and they won. They both are just vanish one day. Like they're let out and they're just in the middle of the day. That's how they do it there. So those people that were meeting make the decision. There's one lady who is in charge, the executive director. It's a reason. She gives a reason. We all know it's. It's just this goes to the idea of it's not what you do, but how you do it. She's so used to seeing the outcome, and she has the power to make that outcome occur. She doesn't even care how she does it. She's like, we can pull the trigger and get rid of them. Doesn't. Who cares? And no one can push back. Doesn't matter. There's no op. There's no transparency. That's how they run it. That's how she runs it. It. So I. There was that kind of. With me where it's just like, we just got to find the thing, the way to pull the trigger. So does that answer your. So okay, so there was this game often that's where I. Why I talk about. People don't. So if you have a coworker you don't like, like that coup that was happening. It's not verbal. It's not spoken out loud. The same way that when they fire them, they don't say the real reason. Reason. Their behavior indicates that you have all this. These patterns, the data that we act out. So if I Don't like this co worker. I'm not going to say it to their face. My body language and behavior, my decisions will indicate what I really think. So that's the information you had to navigate this game. That's kind of like it's not survival, but survival within that office place, that workplace. And I think a lot of people can relate to this workplace politics. It's common. So you're learning how to identify these patterns. That's critical thinking. What's their motivation? What's coming next? How can I counter this? So there was a lot of that, but cynical. There was times where it's like, maybe I need to. Yeah. And then. But there's also that you get comfortable and you're doing your thing every day. It's allowing you time to work on these other things. And I was working on a Secret Scholars Society short film, and the music teacher and I were doing that and playing with YouTube stuff, actually movie reviews and conversations and. But it kind of changed when that viral video did hit. He and I made a point of trying to run with it. And once a week at my house, set up a studio, started to go for it.
- [106:02]
Interviewer
Now the viral video, to go back for a minute, was the J.K. rowling.
- [106:05]
Warren
Yeah. So I teach students podcasting as one format, video editing, photography, 3D printing. And they wanted me to do a newscast. And we had the student in my classroom supposed to do a newscast. Getting cold feet. Cast getting cold feet. I was like, here, I'll sit in the chair. Let's have a conversation. As a warmup. Is there anything you want to talk about? Yeah, I'd like to talk to you about Harry Potter, I think he said. I said, all right. So the camera was rolling, and that's where the exchange came from. And then there was this thing called your teaching portfolio with artifacts. And I'd already had the YouTube channel, so I uploaded it to there. Being like, this is vaguely interesting. I'll try something different. It's kind of interesting. I'd had. I was really inspired by Jordan Peterson recording his lectures. I thought that was really cool. And I had done that in the past. That first year of teaching, I did that a lot. The students really liked it. Archetypes in Harry Potter. And they like, yeah, and those are still on my channel. And so it wasn't completely alien to me. I was like, those are fun. I admire Peterson doing it. So I uploaded it. Didn't expect anyone to watch it. It.
- [107:10]
Interviewer
Boom.
- [107:11]
Warren
That's how it happened.
- [107:12]
Interviewer
Yeah. Can we actually pull that video up this is the one that's like 4 minutes, 50 seconds. Something like that.
- [107:16]
Warren
Something like that, yeah.
- [107:18]
Interviewer
So just hit popular on Warren's channel.
- [107:23]
Warren
It's good. That top one right there. When a student asks about jk. Rolling. Yeah, right there. Let's.
- [107:28]
Interviewer
Let's listen this.
- [107:29]
Warren
Cuz you.
- [107:29]
Interviewer
It was such good logic.
- [107:32]
Warren
Hold on. The add off. So these guys want to talk about J.K. rowling. So what's going on with that? What do you want to know?
- [107:45]
Student
She's had a pretty controversial past. I just want to know what are your thoughts on it? Do you still like her work despite her bigoted opinions?
- [107:55]
Warren
So let's get specific though. Let's define bigoted opinions. What opinions are bigoted? We're going to treat, treat this as a thought experiment. I'm not going to say what's right or wrong or what. I think the whole point is to learn how to think, not what to think. Yeah. So when you say bigoted, you're starting with the conclusion that given her bigoted opinions. First, let's start with does she have bigoted opinions? So when you say bigoted, she has.
- [108:17]
Student
Had a history of being extremely transphobic.
- [108:20]
Warren
I've heard. You've heard. So what? Can you give me an example?
- [108:25]
Student
If you look at her Twitter, I think you could see a few things. If you want, I could try and find.
- [108:30]
Warren
See if you can find. See if you can find one.
- [108:33]
Student
So one of these tweets that she came up with in 2019, she said, dress however you please, call yourself whatever you like, sleep with any consenting adult who will have you live your best life in peace and security. But fourth, women out of their jobs for starting that, for stating that sex is real.
- [108:58]
Warren
So you find that bigoted. What do you find about it?
- [109:01]
Student
Was. It was deemed transphobic. Like I myself.
- [109:07]
Warren
Do you find that transphobic yourself?
- [109:10]
Student
I don't really have an opinion on it, but I'm just going with what a lot of other people have said.
- [109:16]
Warren
So let's pause it. Let's not go with what other people are saying. Let's try and learn how to critically think. So let's analyze the tweet ourselves. So that statement, do you see anything problematic? Disregarding other people's opinions?
- [109:32]
Student
She did try and pin some things on a specific group of people where.
- [109:42]
Warren
She does it do that. Can you read that?
- [109:44]
Student
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real.
- [109:50]
Warren
So when I hear that, I'm interpreting that as meaning if a woman says that, you know, saying that there's a difference between Men and female, and then being attacked as transphobic. I think that's what she's saying. By attacking someone for stating that sex is real.
- [110:05]
Student
That is exactly what she's saying.
- [110:07]
Warren
Is that transphobic?
- [110:09]
Student
So to me, no, stating that sex is real is not transphobic. It's just a fact of life. It exists.
- [110:19]
Warren
So is there anything you disagree with in that tweet?
- [110:23]
Student
In that tweet, I can't really see anything that I myself disagree with, but I can see why some people would think, oh, oh, this is offensive. We can't have that here or something, because, sure, there's an apology tweet.
- [110:41]
Warren
Let's read that. What did she say? I haven't read that.
- [110:44]
Student
I respect every trans person's right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I'd march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by people being female. I do not believe it is hateful to say.
- [111:03]
Warren
So you see anything problematic there?
- [111:08]
Student
She's apologizing. So, no, not really. If I, if I could read it.
- [111:14]
Warren
Again, it sounds like the same, a very similar statement as what she was just saying. She's basically saying like, I have nothing. To me, this is what I interpret as I have nothing against someone being trans.
- [111:22]
Student
Exactly.
- [111:23]
Warren
Your life. But you just don't get to impose on my, you can live how you want. I can live how I want.
- [111:30]
Student
Yeah.
- [111:30]
Warren
And let's all, you know.
- [111:31]
Student
Exactly.
- [111:33]
Warren
So I guess now. So now that we're looking at it like, oh, there's not much difference between me or her. Do you. Why do you, do you think it's fair that there's a. That she's being attacked by a large group of people and people are calling her. Like you said at the beginning of this conversation, you said, given the fact that you, J.K. rowling, is transphobic, how do you feel about Harry Potter now, retroactively looking at that statement, do you think that that was the best way.
- [111:58]
Student
To phrase, no, I feel like an idiot now?
- [112:07]
Interviewer
That's. See, it's the most basic thing. It's what you were talking about earlier. It's like people just hear noise. They don't have of even bullet point understanding of maybe even what happened. And they're like, therefore a lot of people are saying this. It must be true.
- [112:26]
Warren
It's also a good example of the blank slate, because I can't. I'm not accountable or spun up or familiar with every tweet she's put out there. So I'm coming at her from, okay, you're making a claim. What evidence is there? That's very different than what we were using, the example of destiny, of doing a deep dive. So people have tried to say, well, she said this, this other time. You missed that. It's like, I can't account for every single thing she's ever said. The point is, within the framework of that game being played, what is being. So. It's kind of like a courtroom. It's like that's why a courtroom agrees upon the evidence being presented in that case. It's. It's not like everything else. It's what's within the walls of this room. What. What's being presented.
- [113:07]
Interviewer
So now, in, in the. Without going into all the specifics of what the back and forth was, when this J.K. rowling thing actually did happen, the overall context, if I remember correctly, was Basically, I'm paraphrasing. J.K. rowling came out defending women's rights to the point that she was saying that, you know, trans women don't necessarily belong in women's bathrooms or it would.
- [113:34]
Warren
Open up the capacity. We were using the example. If I decide tomorrow I'm a woman now, I have legal access, right? That's going to have an impact on women. So you do you. But when we have an objective line that is crossed when what is your freedoms can't be imposed upon someone else's. So when we give this new group trying to be moral, we're trying to do the right thing and give them these. These rights. But what that's doing is it's impacting another, an entire half the population's rights. It's opened the potential for that, that to occur. It's not a matter of what the frequency at which it's occurring. It's logically it will open the door for that to occur. And it's not just bathrooms. It's. That's the. Why this has become something larger. It's. We're. It's about the legal implications of this right. It's the. If we're going to legally declare you a woman, it's not like, do I think you're a woman? The law is saying that you are now a woman. That has legal ramifications.
- [114:38]
Interviewer
And God forbid, as a woman, you would speak out and say, this could be a slippery slope here that makes you a transphobe or whatever all these terms they put on her were. Which is crazy, because as, as far as I can tell, prior to this happening, should again, she had always been someone who had kind of signaled the right things with, you know, probably a liberal.
- [115:02]
Warren
Right.
- [115:02]
Interviewer
Yes. And now one thing where she says something that is based in. In a strong objective fact which has to do with gender and spaces where they can therefore enter. She's suddenly kicked out from that.
- [115:17]
Warren
She got a lot of flack from it.
- [115:22]
Interviewer
That stuff. I kind of wonder if that's starting to. To turn, though, because society is like, they've seen enough of the cancellations that they're like, we can't do this anymore.
- [115:32]
Warren
Yeah. You just had Gavin Newsom break away and all that. It's. A lot of people know it, but it's. You can't break away from the team. Yeah. It's. They're. They're dug in. And so.
- [115:48]
Interviewer
But if someone like Gavin Newsom's breaking away.
- [115:50]
Warren
Yeah. I think that. I think the dam is about to break. Break. Honestly, I think that's a sign of a crack in the dam. I think it's just gotten too far. They're good. They have to pivot because they're losing. They've never been in such a bad position polling wise. Jon Stewart was just articulating this the other day. It's like. It's like you guys are cooked, so you've got to. But then again, he's. I wonder what his position would be on that specific. We heard him debate about. Okay. It's okay, according to him, to have these irreversible surgeries and minors. Because he claims it's the equivalent. It's life or death on the same level as cancer, which I think is not logically true. Agreed. But I would be curious to hear his thoughts on this portion of the conversation.
- [116:34]
Interviewer
Yeah, I. I wonder if some of that is like. Also, again, even people like John got caught up in ideological capture. And it's almost like you come to at some point, like, wait a minute.
- [116:43]
Warren
What the.
- [116:43]
Interviewer
Are we saying? And I'm willing to. You know, there's people who are like, I'll never forget every single thing they said them. But, like, just on the basis of, like, people getting along again and common sense trying to win out. I am cool with people suddenly being like, you know what? I had really strong opinions on that and I was wrong. Like, I think that's a part of the healing process with just. Just the things that got crazy that got off. Not. Not the stuff that's actually like, you know, a political policy type. You know, they could go this way or could go that way. I'm talking the stuff that, like, a Common parent could be like, wait a.
- [117:16]
Warren
Minute, that, that's what I'm talking about with the fabric of reality. That's what interests me. These kind of things, not so much politics, but politics can enter into that for sure.
- [117:26]
Interviewer
All right, so back, back to your story though. So you. A video like the one we just watched, J.K. rowling goes viral.
- [117:31]
Warren
That one goes viral.
- [117:32]
Interviewer
What year was that?
- [117:33]
Warren
Last year.
- [117:34]
Interviewer
Okay, so it's before. How long after that did you get. Get fired?
- [117:41]
Warren
Month, Two months.
- [117:42]
Interviewer
Oh, so it wasn't that long.
- [117:44]
Warren
No, it bubbled for a bit. The other teacher and I started to make more content. Yeah, there was people at school that probably. But no one said anything to me, to my face. We were talking about nonverbal. They're not going to say certain things that. Yeah, I, and I was talking to Jordan Peterson about this where I had another exchange with a student, a very similar exchange, and I uploaded that. So I did the exact same thing. And they decided that they. There was a rule change I guess that gave them the ability to use that and to say, well, it was okay before, but now there's a rule change retroactively. I don't think it was ret. There was an email that went out the day, like a week so that I uploaded that and it took like three weeks before it. Someone put it on X. And then like I did Pierce Morgan after that and, and then the day after Pierce Morgan I went, went to a meeting with the head executive director and her lawyers and they said, well, there's no rules broken, kid doesn't appear on screen. We have releases for him anyways. And, and you didn't identify the school, so good luck, you know. And. Yeah, but that same day an email went out, a one sentence email that said just a reminder moving forward. I think it said if you're going to upload anything, check with your specific blah, blah, blah person. Okay. And so I did that time. I didn't check with this person that gave them what they needed to fire.
- [119:21]
Interviewer
So. And, and did you, if I remember this correctly, because you put out a video like the day after this happen unless you and I watch when I got fired.
- [119:27]
Warren
Yeah, right.
- [119:27]
Interviewer
This is like 10, 11 months ago, something like that. So you, you saw the writing on the wall that at some point that was going to happen.
- [119:38]
Warren
I knew it was coming. I thought that they would just not renew my contract over the summer and claim some thing.
- [119:46]
Interviewer
So you thought you had time?
- [119:49]
Warren
Yeah, I was kind of looking for other things. I thought there was like a 70% chance they just wouldn't renew my thing because of the live. It was just.
- [119:56]
Interviewer
Just.
- [119:57]
Warren
It'd be easier for them to just get rid of it. Get rid of me. I didn't see that coming. I honestly didn't think there would be any issue uploading that video. And I even told the music teacher that I was working with that I was uploading it. They days went by, they didn't say anything. And they had been. The lawyer later found out because I had uploaded another one with that same kid talking about socialism. But the lighting was so bad because I was being backlit. I uploaded it to X and removed it. Like, I would test things on X to see before moving it to YouTube to not compromise the algorithm. And later they used that as evidence. Well, he knew he wasn't. He uploaded it to X and then deleted it four days later. So it's like. And I was just thinking. So you sat on that. You could have said something to me, but you wanted it to be a problem, so you let the problem occur so that you could use it. So that. That's an indicator to me. I went home that day, threw up the rest of the day, slept on the bathroom, got my crap kind of together. There's some trails by my house. I just walked around the trails all day. The next day, sat down, recorded that video, waited a few days, and then uploaded it.
- [121:13]
Interviewer
You can see in the video, you can see this stress manifesting in your body. Because you talk about, though. And this is what bothers me with any scenario like this, regardless of what the context is. Again, you taking the classy road, not naming the school, not naming the people involved, which, you know, you had said some people were, like, yelling at you for that. That's. I think that's just taking the high road. I think you should be commended for that. That's really cool that you're doing that, because you don't have to do that. But, you know, you talked about that one woman who was saying one thing to your face and clearly back.
- [121:46]
Warren
Yeah, that was the executive director. And part of that was just cathartic. Quick, recording that video. I wasn't sure I was even gonna post it, but I did record it that next day, so it was fresh, and it was just. Yeah. And then I. I wasn't sure what to do about it, but I posted it and. And then I got a message from J.K. rowling, which is cool.
- [122:07]
Interviewer
Oh, you did? What'd she say?
- [122:10]
Warren
She's like, I appreciate seeing a teacher be kind of, like, grounded or sensible. And she was offering to help. She's like, do you have anything lined up?
- [122:22]
Interviewer
Write me a check, JK. Like, carve me out 100 grand. We'll be good.
- [122:26]
Warren
I couldn't. Yeah. I was like, I couldn't do that. You know, I didn't know what to say. I was just like, I really appreciate it. That means a lot. But I was. I couldn't ask. She was off. She was essentially, you know, she was like, how are you doing financially? Is it. You know, I stand to help.
- [122:40]
Interviewer
She went there.
- [122:41]
Warren
Wow. But so it meant a lot. So that's another one of those moments that I'll never forget.
- [122:47]
Interviewer
That's very cool.
- [122:48]
Warren
And people were kind of like, yeah, it doesn't feel like it now, but they're doing you a favor. And it turns out that probably was true. But in the moment, there was. When you're in the unknown, it sure doesn't feel that way.
- [122:59]
Interviewer
No. I don't know it from that type of trauma. I mean, because they. You know, you said they literally took your laptop from you. You had. You had. There was a book you were working on for, like, two years on that.
- [123:09]
Warren
Yeah.
- [123:09]
Interviewer
Did you ever get that back?
- [123:10]
Warren
The lawyer kind of negotiated that, and I met their lawyer in a parking lot down the street from my house and got a thumb drive back. It was weird, man. It was because the music teacher. We'd set up the studio using our own equipment. So I posted that video a few days later. He's like, okay. I never heard. He texted me one day. He's like, are you okay? And then a few days later, he's like, can I come get the gear? I was like, yeah. And so I asked him. I was like, what do you want to do about the YouTube channel? He's like, I can't do it anymore. I can't keep going on it. I'm not gonna be able to do it anymore. I. And I kind of knew he was going to say that, like, school probably was like, you can't.
- [123:44]
Interviewer
Oh, yeah.
- [123:45]
Warren
And so he packed up his gear, but he left. There was, like, this little mixer kind of thing, and I was like, can I buy that off you? So that'll allow me to run a podcast on my computer. He just left it that in the mic. And then I get an email from the school claiming I have their microphone. Oh, God. And I just like, you and I, because they had an identical one. And I saw it the day that I left, and. And I was like, you guys are just being dicks. But I. They're like if you give us the mic, we'll give you your flash drive back and blah, blah, blah. So I got that. I've never spoken to that teacher since. He's never talked to me or reached out. It was bizarre, man. It was strange.
- [124:31]
Interviewer
I'm sorry you went through that.
- [124:32]
Warren
That's, it's looking back on it, you know, it's, that's part of why I kind of, when I was on Rogan, I was like, I mean this is the stuff I should have laid the foundation for, for people that have no idea who I am to, to give some kind of background. But it's like when you go through something, I just, I don't want them to even live rent free in my head. It's like I was just looking. I remember in that those days, I can't wait for the day where I can not think about, about this and be able to never think about them again.
- [125:04]
Interviewer
Well, when you, after you post that, that first video, you're at this crossroads obviously because like you were saying, you're, you're making two, three grand a month on YouTube. You just had your job taken from you. So financially you can't live on that. So you're nervous, righteously so. But you start creating a lot of content and it does well because you're good at what you do and people want to hear you talk now.
- [125:27]
Warren
You, you.
- [125:27]
Interviewer
It's the unknown though, like you said, you don't know that before that happens. But looking back on it, you mentioned something a minute ago about some of it being like sort of a blessing in disguise. But like, do you think the, the desperation of the moment actually led to great work?
- [125:43]
Warren
It focuses you, you're like, I'm all in on this. And so that does. And then you're doing it full time, which you kind of have to do if you're really going to make it work. You got to treat it like a full time job up.
- [125:53]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [125:53]
Warren
As opposed to what I was doing. And I slowly did kind of find the format that like what we've been looking at and I really enjoy that format because I do all the editing and that's really where it comes together because you find the logic in the editing and it allows you to really play with some of these episodes where you can cut out. You don't want to, you don't want to recontextualize something unfairly. But oftentimes in these conversations they'll make a point and then they'll, they'll divert off and there's filler and then they'll come back to it. If you remove that filler and you stay in the logical consistency, it really hammers home the game that's being played. So I really enjoyed that kind of format. And then it makes the content more transformative enough to where you don't get hit by a copyright strike because you're transforming it a little bit. And. But as long as you're not unfairly doing that or you're making it look like something it's not, but it allows us to, through editing, to really explore the logic. And then I'll usually just sit down and do one take. Often just one take, two takes. Sometimes I'll do a third after the fact if I think of something that I need to add. But it's usually just as simple as that.
- [127:05]
Interviewer
It's natural. I like that. Yeah. Because, like, when I see the. The. Your. For people that, you know, haven't seen your channel. We did play one of the videos earlier, the one on Tim Pool that shows it really well. But like, like the speed, the subtle speed you have with the edits, in and out, in and out is. It's like, I. I don't want to, like, overstate it, but it has like, that bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Like, kind of Tarantino feel where it's like, here we are, here's the story. Oh, let's go back to Samuel Jackson.
- [127:32]
Warren
Here's the story.
- [127:33]
Interviewer
Oh, let's go back to Samuel Jackson. And it. But you do it in, like, a really subtle way and it. And it does make it entertaining. And like you said, the thing you do have to be careful with is, like, not. Not having it go so fast. It takes something out of context. But, you know, it's almost like when I'm watching to it or listening to it, I'm interpreting what they're saying. And then you're kind of being our. Getting our brain in the right direction. Like, you're the brain coming in and being like. So that means. And it's. It's educational. I like it.
- [128:03]
Warren
Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm trying with that. Sometimes it'll work better than other times. And sometimes I get a lot of feedback. Stop interrupting the damn video. Well, if you want to watch the video, go watch the video. You know, And I have to do that often to avoid. To make it copyright free and. But more. More importantly, that's my thought process. I'm trying to. If there's not something. The hardest part is finding the video where I feel like I can offer something. It's not just reacting or recounting the news of what's just. I'm not really a political commentator in that sense. There's got to be some kind of interesting move that's occurring that I can dig into a little bit. So that's the hardest part is finding the ideas because it isn't just what happened yesterday in the news.
- [128:52]
Interviewer
It's only been 10, 11 months. But you know, obviously, like success does help, you know, some wounds for sure. I would imagine. That said, you're still a human being and. And you were definitely up and down wronged in this situation.
- [129:08]
Warren
But I am there where it's like, I don't care.
- [129:10]
Interviewer
You don't. So my question was going to be like, no, it's. Do you. Do you forgive these people or is it just.
- [129:16]
Warren
Yeah, it's fine off a part of it, man. Honestly, it's. What's the phrase? It's, it's. It's. It's not. It's business. It's not personal. You know, like, I get it. It's. I. I don't. In a way, like they did do me a favor in a way it was kind of stupid the way they did it because it just fueled me and it's kind of put them in a worse position. Like they were probably like, now he's on Rogan. Oh God. Like they're.
- [129:43]
Interviewer
They're really.
- [129:46]
Warren
So. But it's.
- [129:47]
Interviewer
Well, you're not throwing them under the bus.
- [129:49]
Warren
No, it. Because in the biggest. I thought about it for a while and. But I just knew it doesn't. It didn't feel right and it would just. Cause what would the point be? No good would come from it. It would Cause potentially not. I don't think most people would even care, but some nut could be. It just. It would be a stupid thing to do. It's. It wouldn't be a wise thing to do. It wouldn't do. There's a lot of good people at that school.
- [130:14]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [130:15]
Warren
It would be causing kids complications potentially, though I don't think many people would care. But it's just. There's no point. It's not important.
- [130:23]
Interviewer
Yeah, it's tough living in. In the world we do now where small things can be accessed by people around the world. I was talking with someone the other night who's from Springfield, Ohio, which is where the whole. They're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs and that whole thing came from. And he was talking about like how they had to. I think it was like they had to close Some of the schools that they were getting bomb threats every day from things that were emanating from outside the country. And it's like the second and third order effects of what was happening to people who had nothing to do with, you know, whatever the argument was over that, you know, take the, Take the issue at hand and you forget there's collateral damage around it. And so I, I do think, you know, I, again, I would like to think I, I would be able to take the high road like you, too. And I think, I think you should be commended for that because again, obviously, that lady seems to me like she's kind of a. And, you know, it is what it is, but there's a lot of other good people there who. Yeah, it's no, it's no fault of them.
- [131:19]
Warren
She has done people dirty before. Even worse than I think, than me. Like the, the principal who hired me and the assistant principal. They're the, they're the ones who got me that job. Like, I interviewed with them. They hired me that she really did them dirty because they were there for eight years. They messaged me afterwards and they're like, hey, if you ever need a resident, a reference or anything. Because I was like, how am I going to get another teaching position? My whole four past four years, I'm just. And if I don't, they said, if you sign the NDA, we'll write you a letter of recommendation.
- [131:54]
Interviewer
They throw that in like it's the golden ticket. Didn't really do much.
- [131:58]
Warren
No, but it's all good. It's all worked out good.
- [132:00]
Interviewer
Well, here you are now, and you're making a lot of videos and, and moving the Conversation Station forward and getting on to, you know, some good platforms, which is great.
- [132:10]
Warren
We'll see what happens.
- [132:11]
Interviewer
Now, what, what do you. One of the things I always think about is the term critical thinking and how it's thrown around.
- [132:18]
Warren
Yes.
- [132:19]
Interviewer
And here's my one issue with it. We got to a point in the social pendulum where it seemed like, particularly on, like, the far left side, there was a lack of. Of quote, unquote, critical thinking, which I think is perfectly. That's a fair assessment. But to me, what's happened is almost the majority of the times someone will talk to me and tell me to critically think. There's someone who is hard on the right. And the connotation of them telling me to critically think is that if my critical thinking conclusion does not come out onto the right side, I therefore am not critically thinking, which defeats the entire purpose of what the term Critical thinking is supposed to mean do you think. Have you seen patterns like that as well?
- [133:10]
Warren
For sure, it's, it's. It can be thrown around.
- [133:12]
Interviewer
Yeah, for sure.
- [133:13]
Warren
I think it's thinking first and foremost thinking for yourself. Not just oh I've heard this, I've heard that. Thinking for yourself in order to navigate the stories that make up the world. Because we as we have identified we. That's how we make sense of all this. Which leads to the oversimplification but not. I've realized there's another part to that and it's not. It's the non verbal patterns as well but all patterns, not just the non verbal but the stories and patterns that make up the world. So you can. And why there can be stories and patterns. Yeah. We were talking about how like in the wake of the video the. I could see that coming from non verbal communication. There's patterns. People act out what they really think. They don't say it through the behavior. And so picking up on that use all the data that you can to navigate your own office work policy or politics, office place politics or politics or whatever it is. But often it's, it transcends politics and it's being able to anticipate what's coming at you, whatever it is, where it's coming from, what's going to happen next so that you can make the best move at any given time.
- [134:28]
Interviewer
I like that.
- [134:29]
Warren
It's a good one.
- [134:31]
Interviewer
I mean you've talked a lot about how your I guess like interest in filmmaking and that background shapes how you look at things. But what do you think of I. I'd heard you say this with Joe. You think that in the future people are going to look at films as.
- [134:47]
Warren
Like the historical document potential. It's. I should have elaborated on that more that it's not just that's going to be one of the artifacts but also podcasting like the content will be on the. When movies are really good or shows when content can get to that level. But, but Joe's most famous episodes maybe like Elon Musk smoking with you know that might be studied as an artifact one day with this mind. Yeah it's when it's done right And I was trying to identify kind of like when Christopher Nolan can nail it. Some of these people can just nail it like Heath Ledger and what it's and then trying to identify what is it it. Because we can't really. That transcends language. We can't say why Heath Ledger is a good actor, why the Joker was it's like you can have different theories. No one can really explain why this one actor is able to. There's a lot of actors out there. What makes them good. They're very natural. There's all these different words, but it transcends what we can even articulate. And that goes to that idea of. There's, yeah, the, the fabric of reality. And those stories that are masterful come because Christopher Nolan making Dunkirk. It's great. There's, there's an inf. This is where postmodern, postmodernism comes in. Because there's an infinite ways to tell any story true and that's where they get it right. But it's str. Trying to find the, you can feel it click in when you find. It's a pattern as well. It's like a puzzle you're figuring out. That's the screenwriting process. And it's. Then it's almost as though when it does click, you're telling the story for the sake of that story, not just to give the, like a, the Snow White potentially might be one of those where they're making something, trying to make what the audience wants to see say, no, this is for the sake of the story, which is for the sake of the very fabric of reality, in a way. And as a consequence, it now resonates with the audience. So that, I think can echo through all content creation, but it's more of an observation on the. How limited words actually are. Yeah. It doesn't take away from the fabric of reality, though.
- [137:00]
Interviewer
Yeah, I, I, I completely agree. You, you had made, I'd heard you make the point that it's some of the greatness lies in what the great actors don't do and stuff like that. I completely agreed with that point because, you know, you're taught in any industry and any job like, oh, if you're not doing more, you're not doing anything. But, but the reality is simplification over, over complication.
- [137:25]
Warren
It goes to the idea that we act out what we really think. So the actor. That's what I was trying to use with that analogy. It's like you give the. Anyone can have the screenplay, but what the actor does is everything else beyond the words.
- [137:36]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [137:36]
Warren
Because what do they, first thing they want to understand? What do I want out of the scene? Because that's going to determine the subtext. It's going to determine everything in the same way your office, place, politics. They're going to act out what they want. And that's the data. So, yeah, doing the subtext work, and that determines your behavior. And that's where acting really resides. It's not because that determines how the words are delivered. It's. It is the. I probably oversimplified it too much to where I, I made the mistake of saying most communication is non verbal. I don't think that's true just when you're sitting on a podcast, but I think we, we communicate. It's almost like, more, it's almost as though we, we tell what we really think through our actions and our, our actions. Because talk is cheap. Anyone can say anything.
- [138:23]
Interviewer
I would amend that slightly and actually say you're more right than you think. Instead of saying most communication is non verbal, I would say most communication is not the words you say. So I would include the verbal part in the, in the sounds we make to go along with the body language. But, but it's how you say things and what your body's doing when you say those things. You know, we can see the actor come on the screen as an example, who's like, yeah, so what are we doing on Tuesday? And you're like, that would never be said like that. In that scenario, all he's doing is walking into an apartment and talking to his girl about what they're doing. Then you see the guy walking and go, what, what are we doing on Tuesday? And you believe you're. It's like, it's like that old Pacino quote. You can fool, you can fool the eye, but it's not the heart. Right. And that's. I, I, I think that's more what you're getting at. And it does include maybe the sounds we make, but not necessarily what we're saying.
- [139:17]
Warren
That's good. I like that. Yeah, I'll use that. That's.
- [139:21]
Interviewer
Hey, all day. You don't even have to psych me. You can make it yours. What, What? I, I mean, you, you talk about, you can't really explain in, in full words why something's great or why it works, but as best you can. Like what, what, what made Heath Ledger have such an impact on you?
- [139:41]
Warren
I think he was fearless. And at the age I was, I was about to enter film school, I was like 18, 19. I had, yeah, I was about to go to film school, I think, and I saw something. Maybe I saw something of myself in it. Whereas it was like this guy who didn't want to. It was all about the roles that he turned down. He turned down, like, everything. After 10 things I hate about you, he, like, passed on everything until the point where he Was almost broke. And then the Patriot came along.
- [140:25]
Interviewer
Great. One of my all time favorites.
- [140:27]
Warren
And he just chose these fearless roles and I admired that. Yeah. There's just things about him that I can't explain. I don't know. It's. At the time it was probably just the. And he was doing these little indie films that most people haven't even seen that it feels like maybe I just miss those kind of movies too. They're still being made, they're still out there, but not being backed by the studios in the same way. Monsters, Ball Candy, things like that.
- [140:57]
Interviewer
That.
- [140:57]
Warren
But it feels like it's made for you or it's like it's not for.
- [141:03]
Interviewer
I don't know, commercial consumption, if you will.
- [141:06]
Warren
It's commercial, but it's. It was like when I read Harry Potter before, it was cool. I was. I was 11 when Harry Potter came out as the same age as him. It wasn't a hit yet, but it was like, whoa, this is really good. And friends were reading it and there was getting. It was getting buzzed. But there was no movies wasn't. And then it became a phenomenon at that golden window there. It's. It feels like it was just for you.
- [141:29]
Interviewer
Yes, I know what you're like.
- [141:31]
Warren
And then people are talking about. You're like, no, that's my thing. Like, then they make a movie. It's like, no, no, I see what you're saying.
- [141:38]
Interviewer
What, what did.
- [141:39]
Warren
What. What pro.
- [141:39]
Interviewer
I. I don't know much about that.
- [141:41]
Warren
Like what projects did.
- [141:42]
Interviewer
Was he turning down? Obviously there were some.
- [141:44]
Warren
They wanted him to do the heartthrob stuff. After 10 things I hate about you. Did you see that?
- [141:51]
Interviewer
Of course I seen that.
- [141:52]
Warren
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. And he wanted to do. He was like this art house guy. This art guy. He was a weirdo. But it was. Yeah, man. And then it just. The right thing came along and he. With the Joker. It was. I mean. But I was. I was like, he's amazing. Before that. But just that mix of the fact that he could do something like that, that was it. It's just universally recognized. Yeah. It's like that kind of indicates that there is this fabric of reality when. And the audience doesn't lie. Because if it's not just all subjective, it's like we can recognize real almost it's not real, but you know what I mean, where it's the fact that it could be so universal shows that there's some connecting thread within all of us that. Yeah. That echoes to something deeper. So when these postmodernist professors are up there claiming everything's malleable. Nothing means anything. Anything. Like.
- [142:52]
Interviewer
Yeah, he, he, he took a, a comic book character and made it feel like the guy, the evil guy down the street.
- [143:00]
Warren
Well, I've never, I've never met a guy like that. You, what you mean?
- [143:02]
Interviewer
I'm saying, like, on a smaller level, Right? On a way smaller level. But, like, the patterns.
- [143:07]
Warren
Yeah.
- [143:07]
Interviewer
You know, he brought it home. It was relatable.
- [143:10]
Warren
Yeah. And just the way he, he did it, I think. Yeah. To have that confidence and fearlessness and that could apply to anything in your life. But.
- [143:23]
Interviewer
Who else inspired you? Coming up, like, as you went, like, what made you want to be a filmmaker in the first place?
- [143:29]
Warren
It was the coolest thing. It was. It's like you're creating worlds. You're wielding time and space. With music, it's taking. We have literary patterns, telling stories and books, but it's taking that to the three dimension. And it's the culmination of everything. And then that's why I love editing because it's, it's the rhythm combined with music, and suddenly it makes the audience feel something. And that was the coolest thing, is to be able to make them that. That feeling. You get that. Because that's really what you're trying to do at the end of the day, is elicit an emotional response from the audience. It's, it's just crazy that if we can. And music does this as well as well, the right frequency of the right notes in the right order. If you can get just the right note at this one, you have a hit, and it creates a feeling like we respond emotionally. And that, to me, it's crazy that, that. And no one can explain it, really. So that was just really exciting. And I thought, I mean, what could be cooler than that? And I had a lot of fun doing it. And I, I, I was good at it, man. In undergrad, I was on fire writing short films and, and you were writing short films then that were produced at film school, and it's. They would finance them, and they were, they were not bad, but people can watch them. Teal is my favorite one. What's about. It's about a girl. We just. It opens up in a gas station, and there's this girl standing there next to the cashier, and he starts flirting with her. And, and something's off, though. And then this officer walks into frame, puts down two coffees, and he's like, let me get a pack of, like, cool blues. He's. And turns to her because you want anything, and he's got, like, a bulletproof vest and everything. It's like, what's going on? And then she says goodbye, and they walk out, and you realize she's in handcuffs. And then they. And he's transporting her to this juvie center. And the whole movie just takes place in the car. Car. And then it ends with them arriving and him dropping her off. It's super simple.
- [145:31]
Interviewer
But what was the thread where you came up with a story like that?
- [145:35]
Warren
I have no idea. Oh, well, no idea. I was at a house party, just got into film school. I was 21, so I was drinking age or at a house party, and they raided the house party. And I'm the only one that got arrested because I was like. I was like, I'm 21, dude. I'm going home. And I stood up to give my ID and they made an example out of me, threw me in custom. Then they. Everyone left. Left. They just want. They told me they. We just. We needed to make a show. And they said, but because we put you in handcuffs, we got to drive you down there. Don't worry, it'll get dismissed. And blah, blah, blah. They're really nice. It was, like, weird, this. As soon as, like, the party was over, they were nice, and we were in the car. I mean, cuffs in the back of this car. He's like, what music do you want to listen to? Blah, blah, blah. That's where I got the idea of, like, this human connection that occurs when you're in that position. And then it's weird to see that I kind of ended up teaching at a school that's like, one step away from. From juvie. Yeah. And then I did another movie set in juvie.
- [146:30]
Interviewer
You did another movie set in.
- [146:31]
Warren
As a continuation, kind of, but with a different. A different actress playing a similar character called Redwoods.
- [146:38]
Interviewer
And what was that? Like, what was the concept?
- [146:40]
Warren
It's this. It's within juvie, where this girl. There's something's going on. It's kind of unrealistic because there's males and females in the same juvie center, but there are some like that. But it's like, what's going on where she's meeting with the psychiatrist and something's going on between the guy and the psychiatrist. You're trying to figure out this dynamic. It's a little dark. But.
- [147:00]
Interviewer
Where do you think that. Where do you think that comes from? Like, you mentioned the idea where the original film comes from. But then when. When you start. When you have. When when you then take that thread and you're like, okay, now I got a second one. It could be called Redwoods. It's going to take place in juvie. We're going to kind of continue that. But then you start going down the path of what these characters, like what the story becomes and what it leads to and what the characters are like, where.
- [147:22]
Warren
It's the world. At first. I start with the world. Or it's like, this is an interesting setting. There's something about this character. I know it's a girl. I don't know the angle in. I don't know where she is. Like, are we at juvie? Are we not? And then I. It clicks where you find that pattern and it's like. You can feel it. You're like, this will work. And it worked. It's one of the. It. It really. I really think it was the strongest one I've ever made because it is so simple and it's gotten great responses. You can feel it when it clicks and it's so. But it starts with like. There's something interesting about this. I'm not sure what it is. It's a feeling. You can feel it. And I would often listen to music on repeat because the music is causing a. In the same way we were talking about the right notes, it's causing this emotional response that you want to kind of replicate through the movie. Now you got to figure out how to connect that through a story. But it. So I listen to the same few songs just on repeat. It was like cra. It would drive someone crazy if they could hear literally there. Bun I. Bun B. Was bun this? Like, it's stupid. I don't.
- [148:28]
Interviewer
It's not stupid.
- [148:29]
Warren
I'm not gonna even say. But there was something about this one verse that I can't explain it.
- [148:35]
Interviewer
It hit the right chord in your bloodstream.
- [148:37]
Warren
I did one mafia one where it was like. Like inspired by the Sopranos, but high school. Like, it's like the. The son of the guy and he's like high school level. And it's like the high school kids are like carrying out the collections for him and stuff. And it takes. All takes place on Christmas Eve. I like to keep it simple where it's not. Most people, when they try and do a short film, they have. They treat it like a movie where you have all these scenes. It's like, dude, you have 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 5 minutes. Like, treat it like a silver. A situation. Like many of the most impactful encounters in life are with a complete stranger. And then you never see each other again, you know, but there was something about that that's really interesting to me. So. Yeah, it's keeping it simple where it's just this one almost like one scene that plays out.
- [149:28]
Interviewer
Where would you write? Like, what was your process? Would it just be random, you get the idea and run with it, or did you have a real system?
- [149:35]
Warren
I would. I was trying to write before I got to film school, where I was playing with the idea, listening to music. I would make myself do it for like an hour at least every day, two hours. Because if I didn't feel like I was making progress, I would get really antsy.
- [149:49]
Interviewer
And you're. And you were strictly trying to write short films at the time because.
- [149:53]
Warren
Well, I knew that that's what I would be able to make.
- [149:55]
Interviewer
Right.
- [149:56]
Warren
With the equipment and the crew and all that. That. And then we established that crew. We were like, okay, we're gonna raise 25, 000. We were gonna try and raise as much as we could. We got 25, 000. Everyone worked for free. So we were able to produce a feature film shot on a red that should have cost at least half a million. Sean, you can watch it on Amazon if I put it up for free on YouTube. As the crow Flies. The original as the Crow Flies, which I don't like. That title is supposed to be Hillbilly Highway.
- [150:26]
Interviewer
Hillbilly highway, yeah.
- [150:28]
Warren
You can pull it up if you.
- [150:28]
Interviewer
Want, but what was the concept there?
- [150:30]
Warren
That is from where I. I wrote it around where I grew up. It's about two modern day bootleggers trying to deliver money so they can get enough money to like, set their family up.
- [150:41]
Interviewer
Modern day bootleggers.
- [150:43]
Warren
So it was inspired by, like, Winter's Bone.
- [150:46]
Interviewer
Interesting.
- [150:46]
Warren
So it was supposed to be this edgy neo noir kind of western type, like, kind of like what Taylor Sheridan's doing now. But.
- [150:54]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [150:55]
Warren
Yes. They. The editor and the director kind of changed the tone or.
- [151:01]
Interviewer
Oh, this is an hour. 15 minutes too.
- [151:03]
Warren
Yeah, it's a full length.
- [151:04]
Interviewer
Whoa.
- [151:06]
Warren
So this is now.
- [151:07]
Interviewer
Now are you. Wait, are. So you didn't direct this?
- [151:09]
Warren
I wrote it and produced it.
- [151:11]
Interviewer
Wrote it and produced it.
- [151:12]
Warren
But this is where I'm from. We filmed it. We. In my house, in my yard. Everybody was camping out at my house, my cabin. All these locations are where I grew up.
- [151:22]
Interviewer
I love these establishment shots.
- [151:24]
Warren
Yeah. So the camera man, it's like, it looks good. Some of the acting's not great.
- [151:28]
Interviewer
Well, that's how it goes with.
- [151:29]
Warren
Right. But we were able to get production value. That. It's amazing what you can do now with these cameras.
- [151:36]
Interviewer
And this is back in 2014, too?
- [151:38]
Warren
Yeah, we shot it the summer of 2013. It was distributed 2015 or 2016.
- [151:46]
Interviewer
That's got to be cool. Bringing something to life. Life that you wrote, where you grew up.
- [151:51]
Warren
It's the ultimate feeling, man, when you create a world in your mind, and then you see it brought to life with all these people. That's one of my classmates.
- [152:04]
Interviewer
That's so cool.
- [152:05]
Warren
Yeah.
- [152:06]
Interviewer
And you have that forever, too.
- [152:08]
Warren
Yeah, and then you have forever. It's like a time capsule, you know, it's crazy.
- [152:12]
Interviewer
We can pause it right there and elastic just so we can. We'll put the link below.
- [152:15]
Warren
So that's where it looks like where I grew up.
- [152:17]
Interviewer
That's. Is that a far shot of the town that's nearby?
- [152:21]
Warren
Right outside town.
- [152:22]
Interviewer
Is that a rock right there?
- [152:23]
Warren
That's a mining thing where they. Yeah. Fellasbar mode.
- [152:27]
Interviewer
Wow. Yeah. Like, you know, the. The beautiful thing about art is that you could look at something like the greatest movie of all time, like the Godfather, and see how it. You know, it's lived on for over 50 years. It's so. It has its own brand. It sells billions of dollars around the world and whatever, and it's viewed as this seminal work. But then you can look at something that, like, you create that maybe doesn't get a ton of tension or something like this, but it hits right. And, you know, it hit right. And maybe, you know, you're not Leonardo da Vinci, so it doesn't.
- [153:02]
Warren
This didn't hit right, but it looks good, you know?
- [153:05]
Interviewer
You know what I mean?
- [153:06]
Warren
I'll stand behind to you, like what you.
- [153:07]
Interviewer
What you wrote and the fact that you were able to bring it to life, that there's something beautiful about that.
- [153:12]
Warren
Yeah, man, that's like teal I. Yeah, that was the. Well, it wasn't the first short film. It was the first one with, like, a real crew over time, and it was financed by the school. I did one little one at this filmmaking summer camp when I was in high school. It was just a girl sitting on a bench reading a book. This old man comes and sits down. They have a conversation. Then she gets up and goes on her way, and you realize she's, like, running away from home, and he gives her some advice and blows. That encounter of, like, two strangers, and then they go the separate ways. Never see each other again. That one was lost because we didn't have the tech back then. We only had it on one dvd and someone tried to mail it to me, and it got lost.
- [153:46]
Interviewer
Oh, it's gone. You don't even have it?
- [153:49]
Warren
No. Sucks. That does suck. Yeah. But we have teal and everything. We have the other ones.
- [153:55]
Interviewer
All right, so you got some other ones. How many did you do all together?
- [154:00]
Warren
Five. Wow. Well, that's not including. Then the. My thesis one. The heart that the Secret Scholar Society came out of. That's the one I kind of talked about on Joe Rogan a little bit with the Harvard and World War II. That was my thesis in 2016. 17, 18. Yeah.
- [154:14]
Interviewer
Can you refill us in on that?
- [154:15]
Warren
There was the Untold Story of Winston Churchill. Needed to meet with Roosevelt. Everyone was against the war. 98 of Americans. Prior to Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt was up for re election, so he couldn't be seen meeting with him. So he sent the president of Harvard. Roosevelt went to Harvard. There was a secret network. There was no CIA. There was only the FBI. They had no spies. So they used colleges essentially, like in this weird. They realized we need these gentlemen, this new breed of, like, gentleman spy. They have access, they have money, they have the charm. Blah, blah, blah. That was their thinking. So they sent him. He flew in in the middle of the Blitz, met with Churchill, smuggled back all this research, set up a secret lab that started preparing for war. Secret to the American people. Didn't even know about it prior to Pearl Harbor. Then Pearl harbor changed everything overnight. Harvard became like a war machine overnight. And only 50 students graduated. The following year. Everyone went to war. It was crazy. And. But the. The network between Yale, there was the Ivy Leagues. There was like five.
- [155:23]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [155:24]
Warren
And they were all working together to try and help accomplish these things. Like. And that leads to Oppenheimer. This is way before the movie Oppenheimer was even coming out. And then. So to watch that movie, I was like, whoa, dude, I know about all that. Because Conant, president of Harvard, was leading that with. He was so.
- [155:43]
Interviewer
And what was the project again there that you were doing?
- [155:45]
Warren
You remember that's called Harvard Zero. And that. It was. You have the A story of that and then the B story of the lacrosse team. And there's one. There was two black students at Harvard that year. There was no women. They went to Radcliffe and they were on. The. One was on the lacrosse team, and they were supposed to play the Navy. And then the. They said, no, he can't play. So. Because you have a black player. So all that. The whole team was like, well, we just won't play. But the. They were Ordered to by the school. And so they. My theory is they just forfeited kind of. They pretended to play because they didn't score a single point. So the last thing that comes up, you're interjecting that with this other story that's happening at the parallel time and all of this is true. Like that really happened. That student was there and I'm in it. I'm playing the. I'm playing Langdon Marvin Jr. Roosevelt's godson who was the president of the student body, who's got to get a speech and rally. Then he rally them for all the changes that are coming. And yeah, in the last text that comes up, it is like, so they played blah, blah, blah. And this final score was Navy 12, Harvard 0. So it's called Harvard 0.
- [156:53]
Interviewer
What a crazy sub.
- [156:54]
Warren
Sub story right there. And then I messed around. I was messing around with the secret scholar society, which is a whole modern day. That was like an experimental. Me and the music teacher shot over like a month. It's not very good. I need to recut it.
- [157:10]
Interviewer
What, what was it?
- [157:12]
Warren
It's like me, I'm acting in it. He's acting in it. I'm playing this guy at Harvard who can see the patterns that make up the world. He was working in like a trading office and he's able to read the stock market and predict human nature. And he sees the symbol that taps. He's trying to find out the secret about the secret Scholar society we were just talking about. Does it really exist? And he gets into like cryptocurrency and he's able to like, he's trying. There's this ancient knowledge that the secret scholars are like kind of protecting, kind of. That would allow the. It allows him to predict the stock markets and Bitcoin and all of that. And it's half baked. It's not there yet, but I've been playing with it. It.
- [157:54]
Interviewer
So you want to come back?
- [157:55]
Warren
I'd like to make it into a full movie.
- [157:58]
Interviewer
So are you back in the mindset now as opposed to when you were.
- [158:02]
Warren
Going now I've been. It's always in the back of my mind, but I'm just so focused on trying to keep the channel going because.
- [158:08]
Interviewer
Yeah, I like that you focus and like I live the same thing. You get really great focusing at one thing, seeing that through, getting it to a point where it's like escape velocity where you're good. And now, now at that point you can bridge out to some of your other interests. That's what I'm trying To do too.
- [158:25]
Warren
It was. I feel you there because I posted the awful rough cut of that experimental concept, like a week literally, I think a week or two before that viral video.
- [158:36]
Interviewer
Did you. Have you ever read the book the Splendid in the Bile by Eric Larson?
- [158:41]
Warren
No.
- [158:41]
Interviewer
Crazy book. Now it's more, I guess, forte of the moment, given the whole Churchill argument. But it's about May 10, 1940 to I believe like May 10, 1941, about Winston Churchill. And it reads like a thriller and covers the bombing of Britain, which is crazy history. Yes. And it's phenomenal.
- [159:02]
Warren
What's it called again?
- [159:03]
Interviewer
It's called the Splendid and the Vile. And there are it taught like I've studied World War II all my life in the grand great thing about it is there's always new things and new threads that you find and like, oh my God, never knew this or never knew that. But the crazy thing is that because you mentioned it in, in explaining your concept right there, America was extremely isolationist prior to world prior to Pearl Harbor. And so it's interesting that like you found the thread where the Harvard president literally has to do like almost like a covert meeting because Roosevelt can't be seen to do this. But Roosevelt had an election on November 5, 1940. And in the build up to that, Churchill was calling him, going like, this Hitler guy is crazy. He's bombing us. Please help. And Roosevelt wanted to help him, but he's like, lynn, lease, I'm gonna lose the election if I help you.
- [160:00]
Warren
Yeah.
- [160:00]
Interviewer
So there was even a point where Churchill, they, the U.S. had like two boats that were completely unusable ships in some port somewhere in the Caribbean. And they had literally put a vote through Congress to yay or nay, are we going to destroy the boats because they're not usable. And Churchill calls him up and goes, listen, those two pieces of shit, it didn't pass in Congress, but you guys don't want them. Can you please give them to us? And Roosevelt's like, if I give you that, I'm going to lose the election. So we got to figure out like a backhanded way for me to get this.
- [160:33]
Warren
You see darkest hour, they show that in darkest hour they did. He's on the phone with him and he's like, we can get a team of horses up to the Canadian border. We can't use vehicles to tow them across the border, but we can get a team of horses and pull those across. And because we're not allowed to use vehicles according to this treaty, the Lind Lease agreement or whatnot, I think that's similar to.
- [160:55]
Interviewer
Very similar.
- [160:55]
Warren
He talks about two destroyers in that. There's a line of, in the movie. And I think that's what he's talking about. Talking about.
- [161:01]
Interviewer
Yeah, it just, it. And now it like drives home as well. Like we were talking about what like Daryl Cooper saying and stuff like Churchill was the one trying to say like, yo, this. I never realized how bad the bombing of Britain got and how much of an onslaught it was. And the way, because like the way that the, the Nazi Luftwaffe, the, their, their air force, it was very advanced, but planes were still coming along. So like there was. Was a strict system they had to follow to be able to make it across the Channel and back on, you know, whatever airtime.
- [161:32]
Warren
Dunkirk. Yes. Yeah. And it shows. Like you had what was like in less, yeah, 30 minutes or something. It was crazy of air time nuts.
- [161:41]
Interviewer
And they're just bombing everything and, you know, lands falling and no one would get into the war. And then Pearl harbor happens. And I've had, I've had a couple guys on the podcast, Jesse Fink was on here talking about it. And then Colonel Greg Gadson actually brought it up as well a month or two later. But, you know, there's a lot of evidence to show that there was intelligence that both Britain and the United States had that something like Pearl harbor would happen. And it's a really dangerous thing to kind of get at. But that was a horrible event, obviously. I'm very frightened to wonder what the world would look like if it hadn't happened.
- [162:23]
Warren
No. Yeah. And afterwards, what did Churchill say? He's like, tonight I, I, I, I sleep the rest of the. The saved and the thankful. I think it was because he knew that was his. He was praying for something. And yeah, it's tw. It's crazy to frame it in that way because lives were lost. They woke a sleeping dragon, man. And yeah, had that not happened. I wonder what Hitler's response to that though, to that was. Because if that hadn't happened, man, who knows? He was probably like God now.
- [162:51]
Interviewer
Yeah, he made, he made a huge mistake, though, because it was his move. He had this pact with Japan that, you know, he didn't have any allegiance to anyone. He got pulled out of that. He didn't think anything of them. But, you know, it happens on December 7th. And then I think it was like December 11th, he has one of the, you know, like government conferences or something in, in Munich or Berlin, one of them. And he decides to declare war on the United States because he's probably methed out and like, it, gosh, we're gonna do it. But that, you know, took his forefront war and made it a real forefront war. And that was the beginning of the end. I mean, like, it's a crazy thing. Like sometimes the one thing is that once the war never should have happened and you know, hindsight being 20 20, hopefully people could have seen what an issue Hitler was earlier than they did. But once it was happening and minus obviously all the death and everything that came with that, it's a good thing that he was in charge of the military and not someone with a little bit more, I don't know, patience. Because they were so powerful that if they had gone one front at a time. Yeah, might be a different world.
- [164:09]
Warren
Yeah, he screwed up.
- [164:10]
Interviewer
Screwed up, Ben.
- [164:12]
Warren
They had him at Dunkirk, man. If they just pushed forward at Dunkirk, they could have wiped them out. Yeah, they held back.
- [164:18]
Interviewer
You know what? Unrelated. But I, I just was thinking that one thing I didn't ask you about earlier when you were talking about academia was the whole. We were talking about like Marxism and some of that, and you talked about how postmodernism was like born in, in France and then, you know, kind of worked its way into academia.
- [164:35]
Warren
You.
- [164:36]
Interviewer
Have you ever seen that famous video though, of the. Of the former KGB guy Yuri Besmanov, talking about how to inject like Marxism into. Okay, Alessi, can we pull this up? I know you've seen it for people out there. I know a lot of people seen it. But for those who haven't, we should definitely play this. It's interesting because he kind of play by play is how this is going to go down.
- [165:03]
Warren
When the Soviets use the phrase ideological subversion, what do they mean by it?
- [165:08]
Yuri Besmanov
Ideological subversion is the process which is legitimate, overt and open. You can see it with your own eyes. All you have to do, all American mass media has to do, is to unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes, and they can see it. There is no mystery. There is nothing to do with espionage. I know that espionage intelligence gathering looks more romantic. It sells more deodorants through the advertising. Probably that's why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond type of thrilleries. But in reality, the main emphasis of the KGB is not in the area of intelligence at all. According to my opinion and opinion of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion. Or active measures actively mere pryatie in the language of the KGB or psychological warfare. What it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country. It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and it's divided in four basic stages. The first one being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which requires to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words, much to Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism. The result. The result you can see most of the people who graduated in 60s dropouts or half baked intellectuals are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system. You are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You cannot change their mind. Even if you, if you expose them to authentic information, even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior. In other words, these people. The process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To get rid society of these people, you need another 20 or 15 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society. And yet these people have been programmed.
- [168:32]
Warren
And as you say in place and.
- [168:34]
Yuri Besmanov
Who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept. These are the very people who would.
- [168:39]
Interviewer
Be marked for extermination in this country.
- [168:41]
Yuri Besmanov
Most of them yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in future what the beautiful society of equality is and social justice means in practice. Obviously they will revolt. They will be very unhappy, frustrated people. And the Marxist Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the links of dissenters, dissidents. Unlike in present United States, there will be no place for dissent in future Marxist Leninist America. Here you can get popular like Daniel Ellsberg and filthy rich like Jane Fonda for being dissident, for criticizing your Pentagon. In future these people will be simply squashed like cockroaches. Nobody is going to pay them Nothing for their beautiful noble ideas of equality. This they don't understand and it will be greatest shock for them.
- [169:42]
Warren
Them.
- [169:42]
Yuri Besmanov
Of course, the demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already for the last 25 years. Actually it's over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where previously not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such a tremendous success. Most of it is done by Americans too. And Americans thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures, even if I tell you take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he. He is going to receive a kick in the. In his fat bottom. Yeah, when the military boot crashes his.
- [170:47]
Warren
So who is this guy again?
- [170:48]
Interviewer
This is a former KGB agent named Yuri Besmanov.
- [170:52]
Warren
How'd they get him to talk so openly?
- [170:55]
Interviewer
He was a defector. So he was explaining in this case how the KGB does ideological subversive. I like how he says that, but I remember episode 43 of Matt Kiminash. The first time I saw this clip, he had us pull it up and when I heard it for the first time, all the patterns made sense. And the reason I wanted to bring it up was because I wanted to ask you, like you mentioned, maybe the post modernism being born in France or whatever, you know, we don't think it's France is like, you know, they're a friendly country in, in a lot of ways. But you know, when you look at a Russia or you look at countries that have ideological differences with us, where we're a China, where, you know, they, there's things about us that they don't like, obviously, and would and would like us to hate about ourselves because they, they want their ideology to win. Do you think that within academia it's reasonable to say that perhaps the trail of money and some of the funding comes from sources not necessarily like the kgb. But it could be things like that to get people to think a certain way, as he put it, over a generation, so that it starts to infect and spread the.
- [172:01]
Warren
Like a cancer China? Yes. And I'll tell you what I saw at Emerson with Russia, I don't know how they would be. I believe everything you say makes sense. How are they pumping that in though, given that it did come from France? So I'm curious of that. Let's think about that. But with China at Emerson. So when I screened in the graduate program is different from undergrad. The demographics, I'm not exaggerating. I would estimate 75, if not 80 of the student body was Chinese. Like, meaning they had just come over from China to study. And I don't know if that's unique to just Emerson, but I'm telling you what I saw firsthand. They have deep business ties with China where in my third year, they were asking for a student ambassador to go over to China for the meeting. And they do that. They have a heavy marketing in China. The dean who hired me to be her personal videographer that I was working for would regularly fly to China each year. The night I screened my feature film, I told Joe about this, but I was in the audience. Almost the entire auditorium was Chinese. Every other movie that screened that night was in Chinese only like the. Obviously there was not completely Chinese in the audience. But yeah, I understand the professors. There was a couple. There were numerous classes I enrolled in, showed up. I was not only the only American student, I was the only non Chinese student. And I would withdraw from those classes. Not because. Because it was. For example, one was, I specifically remember, was a directing class and there were many group projects. I sat for the first class. She laid out the syllabus. I saw the group projects and we had to group up and they were speaking in Chinese and I was like, how am I going to do this? So I switched classes for that very reason. It just wouldn't have been practical. But so I don't. I don't understand how many. That many students are directly from China. I even did a little mini documentary where I would interview them and ask them about that. They said it was. Well, we had the one child policy for a long time and it's very prestigious where I come from. The parents want their one child to be able to study at one of these universities. It's. So they do that and then they go back. There were those cries of racism and their claims where there's not enough professors that look like me. I don't have enough classmates that look like me. Okay. If you want that solved. Well, when 80% of the students are Chinese. Yeah. Well, most of them are Chinese, so. So white. We'll just use the term white people were definitely not by any means in the graduate program. A majority at all, though those protests were coming from undergrads predominantly. But that was very unusual. I was bewildered by that. So they definitely, absolutely have business ties over there. Yeah.
- [175:02]
Interviewer
Yeah, I see, I see how when you have an open democracy that you know, allows protests and allows free speech, which is a part of what the fabric of this country is built on. I see how other nations who hate that can use that against itself. You know, that means they're free to fund things, to inject conversation. I, I always cite this example but you know, probably the one benefit of the CCP being communist is that with their kids, for example, they turn off their tick tock at whatever it is, 9 o' clock at night and their tick tock feed is nature videos and science videos. So they're learning and then our tick tock feeds 247 and it's titty videos.
- [175:52]
Warren
That course I was talking about with the textbook book, it has marks as the first chapter. That class, that Cultural media studies was one of those classes. 80% as usual, Chinese. I remember the specific day we were talking about policing the Internet and I remember he, he called on me and I said, well let's ask like one of you guys. Do you think that it's possible? Is it prac. How's it working out? Like do you, what's your experience? Does it work? Because I don't see how we would police the Internet or I forget the government controlling the Internet or shutting it down. We were talking about the practicality. I was like well how's that working? Like is it possible? And he goes whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't talk about that with them. Like I was like it was off limits. I was like, what's the point of having a graduate student level course if we can't talk to the students about the reality of what we're examining in the class? So there was a lot of that, like, oh, we can't talk about that, can't insult this. It's. And they often those students, they will not speak ill of their government because it's deeply. It'll get back programmed in. And they're afraid for good reason as well.
- [177:04]
Interviewer
People tell on them too. I've heard, I've heard of that before. You know, there's different kids that go to the same college and then one hear some, they report it back. I mean it's, it, let's call it what it is. It's 1984 type stuff.
- [177:18]
Warren
Yeah, I've met people in the wake of getting fired. I was trying to get a startup going and this guy was like, yeah, we can help with this start. So I was at his house that week before leading up I posted that video from his house. He's Married to a Chinese woman. Her parents were visiting and when not just her parents, like three aunts and uncles. I remember sitting there at dinner and they was talking about how he had been in a re education camp and had all his property property seized and his business seized. I remember feeling a deep respect for him though because he was like, had been through it and you could see it in his eyes. I, I just can't imagine that he had been re educated since he won't and no one knows really what would go on and he won't talk about it. But it was crazy man. And I was just thinking to myself I would, how why not stay here? But they can't legally I guess like they, they were, they were just visiting for a while but it was like I can't imagine going back to that.
- [178:16]
Interviewer
Yeah, it's, it's terrifying and it's stuff like that. When I hear things like that or see some things along those lines like that's when I'm really grateful to live here with all the problems we have. Like I do think, I do think we can solve these things. You know, like if you look at social media which is the source of the public square that causing a lot of the division. I mean let's just be frank about that. You know, we're in 2025. If you view like the dawn of Facebook is the real dawn of Internet 2.0 social media, that's like 0607. So effectively, whether you are the 80 year old grandma on Facebook right now.
- [178:59]
Warren
Or.
- [179:01]
Interviewer
The 1819 year old on Instagram. Instagram, everyone's the same age when it comes to social media. We're all just leaving teenager and headed to college. Now I don't know about you, but I was a idiot when I was 18. I didn't know about the world. And so we've all been playing with this toy of ideology and spreading ideology and opinions and gossip that is social media. And is the Internet like babies or, or you know, pre adolescents with matchmakers and around. And so society has not had a chance to mature with that yet. Again, regardless of what your age is, maybe you're older and have more wisdom. Well when it comes to this, you're 18 years old as well in a lot of ways. And I wonder as we age, obviously there will be things that transcend social media and you know, Internet 3.0 and 4.0 will change some of the interaction. But that behavior of being able to live behind a keyboard or the phone or whatever, it's gonna, whatever the medium is going to be. I wonder if as a society, we will be able to mature and deal with that tool better. What do you think?
- [180:10]
Warren
Get better at using the Internet?
- [180:12]
Interviewer
Yeah. Get better at how we interact with each other on the Internet.
- [180:22]
Warren
I don't know. I don't know. I think it's maybe if we can get a return to wisdom, like working with Stu, with that generation. Like, there's that new Netflix series that just came out. That's. It is a masterpiece. I get. It's really well done. I understand some of the concern because it's like criticizing the manosphere and Andrew Tate and all that, but the. What's it called? Adolescent Lessons. If you haven't seen it, watch it. Yeah, it's worth it. It's. Every episode is one long take, but it's exploring, like, it's exploring that idea of what's going on. I think it's more of. They're trying to make it sound like it's the manosphere and Andrew Tate, but I think it's showing the impact of social media on kids that would lead a kid to do what he does in that. And then it's all. The whole thing is just exploring in four episodes why, how. What's going. And it's in England, so I'm gonna have to check that out. The adults use language, the story, to make sense of it as. It's Andrew Tate, it's the manosphere. It's this red pill movement. Not the rip. The. The manosphere red pill. Yeah. Because that makes it understandable, more digestible. But you never hear any of the kids say that. I think it's the adults. That's how they make sense of it, though. What makes me a little bit hesitant about it is listening to the filmmakers discuss. That was one of the things they were trying to critique. So had I not heard that, I'd be like, oh, that was an artful take on it. Because that is more of a reflection of reality. But I don't know, man. I don't. I don't. I mean, it doesn't have to do with the Internet. It's more like returning to wisdom, which transcends the Internet. It's just another tool. If you have the wisdom, then you can. You'll be fine. But do the kids have the wisdom? There's more of a pushback, though. Things are changing, I think, like, having people like. I know there's a lot of hate around Elon Musk right now, but having people like that, that are like, what you guys are doing, Joe, all These. It's. It's not what it was a few years ago. Things are changing. We'll have to see.
- [182:33]
Interviewer
I don't know, what do you think a guy is like Andrew Tate, who come up, you know, bombastically as a response to something.
- [182:41]
Warren
I think he's playing a character a lot. I don't know enough. I get the concern. I also believe in innocent till proven guilty. I don't know. I can't really comment on it. You know, I. I think it transcends him.
- [182:57]
Interviewer
He's just.
- [182:57]
Warren
He understands that we make sense of the world through stories and we need characters, and he's playing a character within that story. He mastered that, but he's filling that void around masculinity. I think Jordan Peterson does a better, more wise job of it, and there's a rift between them that we're seeing. And I would probably go more with Jordan Peterson.
- [183:22]
Interviewer
But I think you're right that he's playing a character. Oh, yeah. And it's like, kind of sees in the moment, and it's like one of those things where he'll say 10 things really fast and like, eight of them are like. Like, what did he just say?
- [183:36]
Warren
Yeah, he played it beautifully.
- [183:37]
Interviewer
Right. But then he'll hit that thing that's like, ah, all right, that makes some sense. And that kind of anchors kids, you know, there's.
- [183:45]
Warren
There's wisdom within it. That's how. Why it's so effective, because he's taking a deep message, dressing it up in a way. The. It's the attention economy. Yeah, it worked, you know, so I don't know. I'm not saying he's a good guy or anything. I don't know what he did or didn't do.
- [184:04]
Interviewer
Yeah, well, dude, we. We covered a lot of ground today.
- [184:06]
Warren
Yeah, great.
- [184:06]
Interviewer
We've been talking for, like, three hours.
- [184:08]
Warren
Oh, really? Yeah. But you're, You're.
- [184:10]
Interviewer
For everyone who hasn't seen your channel highly recommend it. We'll have the link down in description. I love your videos. I love how you think about things, and I'm glad to see you doing well and, and, and taking advantage of. Of a tough break that you've now turned into a real positive.
- [184:24]
Warren
Hopefully I can keep it going. And your feedback has been really. It's a rare thing getting, like, face to face, a real person who's seen the videos and like, oh, this is cool. So it helps a lot. So really, I really appreciate you guys.
- [184:35]
Interviewer
I'm glad to hear that. Dude, we're gonna have to do this again.
- [184:36]
Warren
Sometime for sure. Anytime.
- [184:38]
Interviewer
All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me.
- [184:41]
Warren
Peace.
- [184:41]
Yuri Besmanov
Peace.
- [184:42]
Interviewer
Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that, like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and E X, those links are in my description below.
- [184:54]
Warren
Paquettes Expedia Viv esparadis frutarda la musica.
- [184:59]
Interviewer
Contodos to santidos bibimos parabindarte paquetes experiencias pormenos Expedia vivimos paraviajar.