Julian Dorey Podcast #344

Black Budget Tyranny, $37 Trillion Time BOMB & Pearl Harbor 2.0 | Scott Horton
Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Julian Dorey | Guest: Scott Horton

Brief Overview

In this episode, Julian Dorey is joined by Scott Horton, veteran libertarian foreign policy analyst, radio host, and author, for a dense, deep-dive discussion covering the true machinery of U.S. foreign policy, the CIA's unaccountable covert operations, the trillions spent on empire, the tangled origins of America’s postwar global dominance, and the ideological and strategic drivers of recent and current U.S. interventions, especially in the Middle East. The conversation touches on the pathological incentives behind endless war, the revolving door between empire and democratic ideals, the catastrophic effects of policy decisions on places like Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond, and how “Pearl Harbor moments” are cynically manufactured to fuel perpetual conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Major Insights

1. The CIA: Myth, Power and Unaccountability

• No Good in the CIA?

  • Scott Horton wastes no time:

    “No, they are absolutely the destructive force. … they got a black budget. By definition, their job is to break the law.” (00:04)

  • The CIA’s “black budget” fosters unaccountability and enables continual illegal activity with zero consequences or oversight.

• The CIA’s Role in Drug Smuggling and Covert Wars:

  • Horton describes learning as a child about Iran-Contra, CIA involvement in drug-running to fund illegal wars, and media complicity until mainstream films (e.g., American Made) made it “safe” to confront the truth.
  • Connections between vice presidents, state governors, and covert operations (e.g., H.W. Bush’s team running drugs into Clinton’s Arkansas).

• Postwar Power Structure:

  • Horton: The supposed balance of powers is largely bankrupt; after WWII, the National Security State and the CIA were created as organs of empire, not republican governance.

Notable Quote:

“What Congress likes to do is pass all their authority to the executive branch. That way, nothing's their fault, but they still get to keep all the money... Congress giving their power away to the President to let him decide, not them.” (04:56)

2. The Machinery of War and Unchecked Executive Power

• “New World Order” (NWO) Misconceptions:

  • Horton explains how the NWO meant US unilateral dominance—not some UN-centered world government.
  • The doctrine became: America will never allow another nation or alliance to challenge US military supremacy.
  • The result: $10 trillion spent on “terror wars,” millions dead, displaced, or traumatized.

• U.S. War Powers and the Erosion of Constraints:

  • War is waged now without Congressional declaration; “authorizations to use military force” serve as Congressional cop-outs, not real oversight.

Notable Quote:

“So by the time Bush came to town and Dick Cheney was really running the show ... Dick Cheney is not a One worlder, okay? Like there's a world government, but it's in Washington, D.C.” (07:29)

3. China, “Commercial Empire” vs “Sword Empire”

• China Builds, the US Bombs:

  • Julian: “China's using the pen where we have over the years proven to try to use the sword.” (16:04)
  • Horton: US sends soldiers and covert ops; China writes checks and builds infrastructure, often with long-term leverage.
  • The US political class sees any gain in Chinese influence as a crisis, despite China focusing on commercial, not colonial strategies.

• Is “Retreat” from Empire Catastrophe or Salvation?

  • Horton advocates for abandoning empire, focusing on US affairs, and letting European and Asian powers build their own security structures.
  • The $37 trillion US national debt makes endless foreign security guarantees unsustainable.

Notable Quote:

“If you need your government to rig the game for you ... so that you can have some local government expropriate property and turn it over to your buddies and your standard of living depends on that, ... that's wrong and unacceptable and so tough.” (20:44)

4. The Catastrophe in Yemen: How U.S. Policy Enabled Mass Disaster

• Obama’s Drones, the CIA, and Growing al-Qaeda:

  • Obama ordered targeted killings of bin Laden loyalists. But the result? Collateral deaths, mass resentment, and al-Qaeda bloomed:

    “They killed hundreds or low thousands of Pakistanis in those drone strikes trying to kill 29 guys. … Al Qaeda just grew more and more and more.” (50:01 – 54:27)

  • Growing chaos and civilian suffering followed every attempt at “precision” warfare.

• Saudi Power Politics and U.S. Complicity:

  • The U.S. first worked with Yemen’s Houthis to kill al-Qaeda, then shifted to backing the Saudis, who supported al-Qaeda to fight the Houthis:

    “Barack Obama turned around and stabbed the Houthis in the back and took al Qaeda's side against them…” (64:54)

  • US military ran logistics, maintenance, and blockade enforcement for the Saudi campaign, culminating in famine and mass death:

    “The Saudi way of war was to bomb all the farms, kill the horses in their stables, bomb all the fishermen's boats ... Starve the population... to inflict collective punishment...” (73:32 – 74:49)

• Trump’s Continuation and Congressional Futility:

  • Trump kept the war running, vetoed Congressional attempts to stop it—largely because of defense contractor pressure (e.g., Raytheon profits).
  • “They always say no new wars ... but he bombed the crap out of them the whole time.” (76:36)

5. How Policy “Blowback” Creates Perpetual Disaster

• Origin Stories of Modern Terror Threats:

  • Horton details how America’s post-Cold War interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Balkans, and elsewhere directly produced today’s adversaries.
  • “These were America's mercenaries that we had backed in Afghanistan, in Bosnia, in Kosovo and Chechnya … while at the same time completely driving them crazy by occupying bases in Saudi Arabia … backing Israel’s wars….”

• War on Terror: The “Pearl Harbor” Script:

  • Julian and Horton discuss how U.S. planners see every major war as requiring a “Pearl Harbor” moment to overcome public resistance.
  • Project for a New American Century’s “Rebuilding America's Defenses” (1998) used that explicit language—the idea that only a major shock could unleash radical policy change.

Notable Quote:

“It is obvious too that there's a motive there to maybe allow one through. That was my assumption at the time was that they'll allow one through so they can escalate into the new century...” (140:16)

6. The Iraq War: Neoconservativism, Israel, and Manufactured Consent

• Who are the Neocons?

  • Horton traces their roots:
    • Former Trotskyites and Cold War Democrats moving to the right after the 1960s.
    • Central to the neocon rise: a network entwined with military contractors and the Israel lobby; think tanks and media mouthpieces like Project for the New American Century, Foundation for Defense of Democracies, AEI, etc.

• Motivation for War:

  • Not primarily oil or “democracy promotion”—but Israeli strategic interests, as articulated in the “A Clean Break” memo to Netanyahu in '96.
  • The war was sold as a pretext for US preeminence post-9/11, and as a way to “remake the Middle East” for Israel’s benefit via regime change in Iraq, then Syria, Iran, and beyond.
  • Horton repeatedly notes neocon policymakers like Richard Perle, David Wurmser, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, and how they dominated key government positions under W. Bush.

• Deception & Media Manipulation:

  • “The neoconservatives are the ones who really got it done.”
  • Lies about WMDs, Saddam-Al Qaeda ties, and humanitarian horrors were engineered and laundered through approved channels, both inside and outside government.

Notable Quote:

“They're divided up. They wrote you had guys ensconced at the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Washington Post, and then especially, and most importantly, at the National Review and the Weekly Standard. And of course, Fox News all day long.” (109:19)

• Strategic Catastrophe and Blowback:
  • Instead of a quick regime change, the war empowered Iran, fueled sectarian conflict, led to the rise of ISIS, and resulted in hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths and millions displaced.

7. The World Wars, Pearl Harbor, and the Revisionist Lens

• Were the US and Britain “forced” into WW2 / Pearl Harbor?

  • Horton: The war was provoked by deliberate escalation and backdoor dealings (“the McCollum memo”), not the result of naive isolationism.
  • The US and British governments manipulated events to gain public support for war, often at the expense of their own citizens’ opposition.

• Churchill, FDR, and the Origins of the US Global Order:

  • Buchanan and AJP Taylor’s revisionist history: Churchill’s “war guarantee” to Poland was blundered posturing; the British government acted out of self-interest and imperial anxiety, not just anti-Nazism.
  • Post-war US power cemented World Empire, at unbelievable cost.

Notable Quote:

“So, you know, none of this was thought through well or done right at all by anyone. … That's the best of all timelines, is the way World War II worked out because we finally got in there. I'm not so sure of that. I don't think the German Reich could have outlived Hitler and I don't think he could have lived very long in any circumstance…” (156:10)

8. Lessons from the “Forever Wars” and America’s Declining Power

• Why Opposite Policies (Imperialism vs. Isolationism) Get Weaponized:

  • The US routinely demonizes “isolationism” to justify ongoing intervention, but it’s empire that has produced danger, blowback, and decline.
  • Horton underscores the cost: Trillions wasted, millions dead, and a government now $37 trillion in debt.

• Why the US Should “Retreat” and What That Might Look Like:

  • Return to the principles of John Quincy Adams and the original Monroe Doctrine: Defend the home front, avoid entanglements, and empower other regions to solve their own security.
  • Horton tears down the “if not us, chaos” argument, noting that unmanaged intervention is what creates the chaos.

Notable Quote:

“If we want to have our republic here, we're going to have to leave the old world to the old world.” (179:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scott Horton on CIA’s Permanent Lawlessness:

  “They are absolutely the destructive force that you describe them to be. And why? Because it's unaccountable power. They got a black budget and they can never get in trouble for anything.” (39:07)

• On Ideological Roots of Permanent War:

  “What Congress likes to do is pass all their authority to the executive branch. That way, nothing's their fault, but they still get to keep all the money....” (04:56)

• On Yemen:

  “America goes in there, we get them in a debt trap and then we confiscate all their natural resources permanently...the confessions of the economic hitman.” (17:39-18:53)

• On Neocon Influence in Iraq War:

  “They're the ones who really got it done...The neoconservatives are the ones who really got it done. And so they're divided up...especially, and most importantly, at the National Review and the Weekly Standard. And of course, Fox News all day long.” (109:19)

• On US justification for preemptive war:

  “We can't wait for the proof to be a smoking... A mushroom cloud. We can't wait for the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. What if an American city got nuked because you wouldn't let us preempt this threat?” (132:56)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• CIA, Iran-Contra, Drugs, and Power: 00:00 – 04:00
• How War Powers Shift (Post-WWII): 04:20 – 08:20
• US Unipolar Era and Global Hubris: 08:26 – 12:40
• Comparing US Empire to Chinese Expansion: 16:04 – 22:20
• Why Not “Isolationism”? Superior to Empire: 20:24 – 24:17
• Yemen: From Drone War to Proxy Hell: 49:52 – 64:41
• Switching Sides: US Enables AQAP in Yemen: 64:54 – 73:32
• Trump’s Continuation and Raytheon Profits: 76:08 – 78:54
• Afghanistan as the "Least Supported & Opposed" War: 78:54 – 82:00
• Origins and Motives of the Neoconservatives: 88:33 – 96:09
• Israel, Lobby Power, and Endless Wars: 99:01 – 104:55
• Pearl Harbor/False Flag Mentality in War Policy: 140:08 – 144:02
• US/Britain in WW2, Revisionist History: 152:08 – 159:03
• Grand Lessons: Why the US Needs to Leave Empire Behind: 179:48 – 183:21

Tone & Style

Scott Horton maintains a sharply anti-establishment, libertarian, and revisionist tone—speaking in rapid-fire detail, referencing both mainstream and contrarian sources, and weaving together news events, historical context, and personal commentary. He is animated, deeply skeptical of official narratives, and unflinching in critiquing US foreign policy from both left and right angles. Julian Dorey encourages open debate, pushes for clarification, and peppers the discussion with contemporary parallels and probing questions, keeping the energy high and sometimes injecting dark humor.

Conclusion

This episode provides a rich, unfiltered tour through America’s foreign policy machine—pulling back the curtain on covert power structures, the origins of endless war, and the real-world consequences for millions at home and abroad. Horton argues persuasively that the “Pearl Harbor” model for policy change is not just history, it’s a continually deployed tool for empire. The great question he leaves for listeners: Will the US learn from its mistakes, or keep running the “black budget” world on borrowed time and blood?

For further information:

• Scott Horton’s books: "Enough Already" and "Provoked: How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine"
• See specific timestamps above for segments of greatest interest.