Julian Dorey Podcast #345
Scott Horton WARNS about Nuclear War, Netanyahu & Iran
Date: October 14, 2025

Episode Overview

In this widely ranging and impassioned conversation, Julian Dorey welcomes renowned antiwar journalist and libertarian thinker Scott Horton to dissect the escalating risks of nuclear war in the Middle East, with a particular focus on Iran, Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu, and U.S. foreign policy. Horton offers deep historical context, sharp critique of American intervention, and a libertarian's vision of foreign policy, while Dorey draws out practical, moral, and strategic questions about global power, alliances, and the future of peace. Together, they dive into not just the current flare-ups, but the roots of modern American empire.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. American Foreign Policy & Its Domestic Costs

[01:57 – 08:25]

• Horton on U.S. Empire: The modern U.S. government’s desire to maintain global dominance is fundamentally incompatible with the original intent of the Constitution and a limited, decentralized republic.
  • “Our Constitution doesn’t describe that. … You can’t do that with a limited government. You need inflationary money, you need income taxation.” (Scott Horton, 03:23)
• Debt & the Military-Industrial Complex: Horton rails against the $37 trillion national debt, critiquing welfare but arguing the greater affront is funding foreign wars without accountability.

“Even worse than that is like helping the Israelis blow up some Palestinian kid… But even worse than that, in a way, I mean this in a sick, weird, disgusting way… When my money they take straight out of my pocket is just going to pay interest on the debt to the Central bank of South Korea.”
— Scott Horton (07:37)

2. Libertarian Economics, Austrian School, and Anarcho-Capitalism

[08:45 – 18:09]

• Austrian Economists & Hard Money: The conversation shifts to the influence of Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, and their advocacy for sound money and libertarian principles. Horton recommends key reading for understanding government corruption and monetary policy.

  “They argue that no, and I’m pretty much sold on that just because I got no use for these bastards.”
  — Scott Horton [09:17]

• Rothbard’s Historical Framing: Horton explains Rothbard’s take on left vs. right, the origins of liberalism, and how capitalists were originally the “left” fighting against entrenched power.

  “It was private property that destroyed feudalism.”
  — Scott Horton [12:14]

3. Ron Paul’s Influence & American Non-Interventionism

[18:09 – 32:29]

• Ron Paul's Legacy: Horton credits Ron Paul as the movement’s great communicator and predictor, whose antiwar, anti-Fed message inspired millions.

• Key Ron Paul Moments: The “Giuliani moment” at the 2007 debate is highlighted, where Ron calls out U.S. intervention as the root cause of September 11 (“blowback”) and stands firm amidst political backlash.

  “He won over 20 million people overnight with that.”
  — Scott Horton [32:13]

4. U.S.-Iran Relations: A Deep Dive

[40:41 – 81:31]

• History of Iran’s Nuclear Program: Horton sketches the arc from American support under the Shah to dual containment under Clinton, outlining repeated lost opportunities for peaceful engagement.
  • How the Iraq War, Israeli influence, and neocon strategy sabotaged normalization.
• The Nuclear Negotiations: Review of the “Axis of Evil” framing, the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and the Obama-era Iran nuclear deal (“JCPOA”).
  • Horton: The deal rolled back Iran’s program and introduced unprecedented inspections; Trump’s withdrawal set the current dangerous trajectory.
  • Horton asserts, “I think Obama was legitimately worried that Israel was going to do what they did last June and just go ahead and start the war.” [71:00]
• Why Now? Risks of a Wider War:
  • Israel’s June attacks on Iran put the world at risk of a new Middle East war, backed by the U.S.—counter to Trump’s original promises.

“Israel attacked them because right now, everything’s coming up, Benjamin.” — Scott Horton [81:33]

• The 60% Enrichment Debate:
  • Horton emphasizes Iran’s uranium enrichment is a diplomatic bargaining chip, not a rush to a bomb—unless pushed further.

5. Israel’s Political Landscape, American Influence, and Netanyahu

[84:34 – 119:27]

• Netanyahu’s Strategy:
  • Horton discusses Netanyahu’s maneuverings, reliance on hardliners for power, and support of militant groups to thwart a Palestinian state.
  • The deep entanglement of U.S. politics with Israeli interests (citing campaign donations, embassy moves, pardons, etc.).
• Ethics & Realpolitik:
  • Dorey and Horton debate whether Israel serves America’s strategic interests, with Horton concluding Israel is often an obstacle even to empire’s aims.

“Tell me what advantage Israel gives the United States there. The only one I can think of is they help Barack Obama back Al Qaeda in Syria, but that was him committing treason for them, wasn’t it?”
— Scott Horton [105:22]

• Netanyahu’s Power & The Future:
  • While acknowledging his charisma and Machiavellian skills, both agree his continued leadership has isolated Israel globally.
  • Horton: “[Netanyahu] is by light years ... the most savvy and capable prime minister that Israel could possibly have … but he’s so violent and murderous and horrible that he’s undermined support for the project itself overall, seemingly.”

6. U.S. Wars in Context: Ukraine, Russia, and NATO

[119:36 – 124:09]

• Antiwar Framework:
  • Horton’s new book ‘Provoked’ blames Clinton-era NATO expansion and U.S. intervention in the Balkans for the current Ukraine conflagration.
  • “NATO expansion and the Balkan wars … then W. Bush tore up all the treaties, continue NATO expansion, did the color coded revolutions…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the cost of empire:
  “If we could get rid of the, the, part of the most expensive part of our national government that people care the least about and, and want the least... we could have even a continental defense...but that ain’t gonna happen.”
  — Scott Horton [04:37]

• On Israel-U.S. relations:
  “These are all Donald Trump’s friends. And no, Arabs are not really. You know what I mean? ... All his friends in California, too, on his TV business and whatever. ... He hangs out with Jews. He always has.”
  — Scott Horton [86:30]

• On Iran’s nuclear program:
  “Would you please come and sit at the table and talk? That was what it was. If they wanted to go to 90 and make bombs, they could. If they wanted to make 90% and hold it and say, you know, I could make a bomb out of this, they could have done that. They did not do that.”
  — Scott Horton [81:20]

• On U.S. responsibility and blowback:
  “We just have to stop the intervention. I mean, that’s it. ... They’ve all been motivated by American foreign policy. ... That’s what it’s always been.”
  — Scott Horton [99:37, 103:44]

• On Netanyahu’s unique power:
  “By light years ... Netanyahu is the most savvy and capable prime minister that Israel could possibly have. ... There is no one in the lineup who has the political levels of control and sophistication that this man can wield throughout the United States and Europe.”
  — Scott Horton [112:44]

Important Timestamps

• U.S. Empire & Constitution: [01:57 – 08:25]
• Libertarianism, Austrian Economics: [08:45 – 18:09]
• Ron Paul’s Legacy & Influence: [18:09 – 32:29]
• History of U.S.-Iran Relations: [40:41 – 54:00]
• Netanyahu, U.S. Foreign Policy, and War Risks: [67:35 – 98:36]
• Israel’s Hardliners and Current Strategy: [84:34 – 119:27]
• Ukraine, NATO, and Russia: [119:36 – 124:09]

Episode Conclusion

Dorey and Horton conclude that current militaristic U.S. policies—especially in support of Israel—are not only morally wrong but against American interests and even the stated goals of empire. Horton is pessimistic about the likelihood of reform but insists a deliberate return to constitutional principles and non-intervention is the only rational course. As the global risk of nuclear conflict rises, these warnings are urgent.

• Scott Horton's new projects and books can be found at scotthorton.org and the newly announced Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom.

For listeners seeking a historically grounded, antiwar perspective, this episode offers an unvarnished critique and a suite of resources for further investigation.