← Julian Dorey Podcast
Julian Dorey Podcast
#350 - The NBA’s Mafia Gambling Ring Scandal Could Get Way WORSE | Jeff Nadu
02:58:19
Loading summary
Transcript857 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Chauncey Billups hates to see you coming.
- [00:21]
B
I don't know if he does or not, but, I mean, we're definitely gonna bring him up. We are.
- [00:24]
A
We're gonna talk about all of it today.
- [00:26]
B
Yeah, it's a wild time to be alive, especially for someone like myself. And this kind of comes all full circle for me, you know, kind of what I do and some of my other life, you know, with the gambling and all that sort of thing. So I appreciate you having me back.
- [00:41]
A
Of course, of course. You were the first guy I thought of, like, when this dropped. I'm like, mob, gambling, sports, I need to hear what they do.
- [00:48]
B
Yeah, you were very nice about. You said, you know, you're the only one I want to talk to on this. I said, beautiful, I'll make it up.
- [00:54]
A
Well, I have the indictment right here. Physical form, old school.
- [00:58]
B
Yeah.
- [00:58]
A
You'd appreciate that.
- [01:00]
B
That is. I mean, the thing about this case is, like, it's not just one case, it's two cases.
- [01:06]
A
Yes.
- [01:07]
B
And a lot of these people know each other and, you know, you hear a lot of this, oh, there's still shoes to drop. I believe that's absolutely true. Because there's a lot of this stuff going on. I think you really just have to kind of remember what we've seen happen over the last year or two. So.
- [01:23]
A
Yeah, well, maybe at the top. Before we get into the nitty gritty, let's just start with the first case, the poker case. Can you just break down what the indictment says and, you know, where you actually can talk about some things like, you know, what you're hearing from mafia sources and stuff like that? Because this is literally straight out of Tony Soprano, except they also cheated.
- [01:45]
B
So I want to. I want to make this clear right out of the gate. Okay. The mafia for years, and we're talking decades in New York in certain businesses take a tax from everything. And when I say tax, they get a percentage of. And nowadays it's more like kind of seedy business. So like strip clubs, poker games, things of that nature. Back in the day, you know about regular extortion. They were extorting everybody. Now it's more or less. It's kind of a circuit group of people. They run poker, dice. This goes on in New Jersey. This goes on in Staten island, all the boroughs, and in particular areas in Manhattan. So for instance, Greenwich Village or one of these games was that goes to a certain family and they have a representation in that game. He collects, he gets a piece of every game. So, like, the fact that the mob's involved with this is not surprising. If you're playing at a game underground in New York, it's 99% sure there's some connection to the mob, whether it be an associate. There might be made guys in these clubs, and then there's always going to be that captain or made guy that is kind of the overseer of making sure everything runs, everybody gets paid.
- [03:03]
A
That was one of the things, though, in the indictment that I don't want to say it surprised me, but it seemed like a little convoluted in that, the way they wrote it up. And maybe they were just a little careless with how they wrote it in year. It seemed like games were being protected at the same time by multiple families. So.
- [03:19]
B
Well, yeah, so. And that's the thing. Like, I think there's this premonition. I've heard it on, you know, some. I'll say this real clear in this case and in the other case, some of the worst reporting you'll ever see went on with this case. I mean, it's just salacious. It's, you know, bringing up the. It's, it's cool to say Chauncey Billups, it was with the mob. Chauncey Billups, I could almost assuredly tell you, has never spoken to a mobster in his life. And if he did, he didn't know.
- [03:45]
A
He didn't know it. Right.
- [03:45]
B
Maybe he took a picture with somebody or something. But it's not like they were calling Chauncey on the phone and said, hey, bro, you showing up tonight, it didn't work like that. But yeah, I mean, these indictments can be a little confusing because you first have to understand the background of the games and how they work and these families work together. There's this thought in the media that they don't like each other, they're rivals. And these families, they all know each other. Most of them are cool. These families aren't fighting in the street. They all know each other. They all work together. Everybody gets a piece. So, like in one of the games, the Gambino and Genovese families both had representation in the game, allegedly. And like I said, if you're in the poker, underground poker scene, these games, they're, like I said, they're all over the tri state, everywhere. So, yeah, I think kind of understanding that side and that the people that are also involved in this are going to be. Some of, some of these people are some of the biggest cheaters in the gambling world, whether it be sports betting, poker.
- [04:51]
A
Like who?
- [04:53]
B
For instance, Amwar Awadi is a known scam artist. He's one of the biggest cheat scam artists in America.
- [05:01]
A
Also known as Flappy.
- [05:02]
B
Correct, Correct. And Amore's name popped up in the Jonte Porter case.
- [05:08]
A
Oh, shit. Tell people who Jonte Porter was.
- [05:11]
B
Yeah, so last year Jonte Porter. Jonte was an NBA player. His brother Michael Porter is quite a good player. Jonte played for the Raptors. Was kind of like a, you know, wasn't a particularly prominent player by any means. Um, I think the biggest thing you have to realize about the, the NBA people, whether it's Johnte Chauncey, Terry Rogier and Damon Jones, these are all people that gamble regularly. Some of these people, Chauncey Billups has been playing poker for, for a long time.
- [05:43]
A
Just poker or is he.
- [05:45]
B
Other games.
- [05:45]
A
A lot of other things too.
- [05:47]
B
Like I'm not going to say he's played poker his whole life, but like I've heard his name over the last 5ish years.
- [05:52]
A
In what context? Just playing poker or.
- [05:55]
B
No, if you, if you really know, and any Vegas, Louisiana, Whirly, wherever I have heard that Chauncey and another individual who is not in this indictment, but I've talked about. He's a prominent NBA player. I don't mind saying his name either. They scam games. They've been scamming games for years.
- [06:16]
A
We going to get a name?
- [06:18]
B
Paul Pierce. Everybody knows that.
- [06:22]
A
So. But to say they've been scamming games puts it beyond just them playing in like some regular poker game, but they're actually like cheating. Now when you say the cheating, because we're going to get to specifically what they did and they're accused of in this indictment. But when you're talking in that context of like Chauncey and Paul, what you had heard, are we talking regular old school, like chip stacking and stick and signaling, or are they actually using some of the things.
- [06:44]
B
No, they're, they're using like there could be some of that stuff, but they're using these shuffling machines, glasses, and I'm not going to say that they're like. What's interesting here is like. And this is why these, these indictments overlap in a way because if you read the sports betting indictment, there's a person in it called Eric Ernest. He's also in this indictment. He's in both Eric Earnest, from what I've been told is a close friend of Chauncey's. Eric is pretty tied into the gambling poker communities. Everything has all sorts of contacts. And I think that's kind of where some of the bridging of this goes. As far as, you know, they know each other through poker and somebody knows somebody else and they say, well, maybe he'd be willing to, to give us something, you know, but with poker. Yeah, I, Chauncey's played in games. I talked to one person that told me and there's. In this indictment, there's a reference of a game in April 2019 in Vegas. Correct. And this has come out publicly in the media. I posted it and Pablo Torre then posted a day or so later that Kevin Garnett played in that game. I think he played for about an hour. And I was told that he left.
- [07:57]
A
Did he win or lose?
- [07:59]
B
That I don't know. But my source told me that Chauncey quote cleaned up in that game. Now, the same source also told me that when he had met Chauncey, he knew that he had played, but he wasn't really good at it. And then he just all of a sudden became really good at it quick, you know, and it didn't make a lot of sense. And like the stuff I say about Paul Pierce, like, it's not a secret Paul Pierce plays poker. He was, he was in the ESPN when he was fired from espn with the strip club. Yeah, there was, he was playing a poker game. You know, he's played at some of the, he's played on stream poker. You know, when he plays poker he gets drunk and acts crazy.
- [08:34]
A
And there's nothing wrong with playing poker. It's a matter of if you're cheating people. Right. If that is the case.
- [08:40]
B
And there's this, there's this thought like, well, these guys make so much money, like, why, why do any of this? And it's such a ridiculous point because it's like everybody gambles. I mean, Dana White is a billionaire and gambles. You know. You know, some of the richest people on earth love to gamble. I think in terms of these athletes, this is. It started as they love to do it. And when you really play poker, when you really bet on sports, most of these people are degenerate gamblers. I mean, they just get in too deep and before you know it, it's, you know, like, I'll take Chauncey for instance. Like, let's say he makes five. I don't know what his.
- [09:20]
A
Yeah, I was just going to say, can we actually Google That Danny. So we got Danny filling in for Deef today. Shout out to Danny. He's new on the team here, doing a great job. But we should get like the year by year breakdown of Chauncey Bob's contract. So Chauncey Billup, coaching contract, but let's.
- [09:37]
B
Just take it and let's say he makes 5 million a year. Okay? You and I hear that. Danny hears that. Any guy on the street hears that. That's a lot of money, right? But think about this. He makes five mil a year. He really only makes about two, two and a half. He's got a wife, he's got kids. He's got to put them through school. He's got family, he's got. I mean, he lives in probably a really nice home like before. You know, it. Like, it's a good amount of money. But when you're gambling some of the levels that he is, he's not gambling, Julian, for five, ten dollars on the street. He's playing games with 50, 100, 200,000 on the table. You get in quick, you lose. I mean, 200,000 is a lot of money. And.
- [10:17]
A
But that's not what he. Just to be clear, like, I. I hear you, and it sounds like that might be a pattern that he has. What's so fascinating about his winnings as it's reported in this indictment, though, is that we're talking about, you know, 10 grand here, you know, 15 grand there for a guy that's making. We did pull it up, 4.7 million in salary and made, I believe, over $100 million in his MBA.
- [10:38]
B
But remember, in this indictment, the poker indictment, he's only listed as playing in one game in this indictment, and that's the one I told you in 2019. 2019, correct.
- [10:47]
A
Yeah. You were saying he was done. You tweeted this the other day. They did Chauncey Billups dirty with how they marketed this.
- [10:52]
B
Well, they did because they marketed it that he was in New York playing in Mafia run games when he wasn't. Like I said, I don't believe Chauncey Billups has ever met a mobster. I don't think he ever even played in the games in New York. But this is a nationwide ring of people who go to different cities and run games. So for instance, there's a woman in this case, her name is Sophie.
- [11:13]
A
We.
- [11:14]
B
I believe they call her Pookie. She. She's run games for years, whether it be in New York, whether it be in Vegas, like these. Some of these people have, like, Zen, you He's.
- [11:28]
A
He.
- [11:29]
B
He runs games in New York. There's a guy, Saul Bottcher, in this indictment. Same with him.
- [11:34]
A
Would anyone but Jeff. The FBI is always going to look for a case with organized crime, so if they can make one, they'll make one. Yeah, but would anyone really care if it was like the Sopranos games where it's just. They. It's a big game, so it's outside of a casino. It's illegal in that respect, but they're just taking a regular rake, and whoever wins, wins. Whereas in this one, they were rigging the actual games. That's why people.
- [11:56]
B
And that's. And that's the conversation I've had with so many people that are in the street and not in the street. People that are just. They play poker. I talked to one guy that plays in these games. He's played at Lexington Avenue and he's played at Washington Place, both in this indictment. Big guy. And he told me. That's the question I asked him, because I know for a fact the rake in these games is more money than you could ever need.
- [12:20]
A
Oh, yeah? Yeah.
- [12:21]
B
But they took it up a notch and said, you know, not only are we going to take an insane rake.
- [12:27]
A
We'Re going to cheat.
- [12:28]
B
We're going to cheat because, you know, the people that are playing in these games, some of them have tons of money.
- [12:33]
A
By the way, I should have done this. Sorry, Jeff. But for people out there who aren't familiar with the case, Chauncey Billups is the current head coach, like literally currently of the. Of the Portland Trailblazers. NBA legend. I kind of allude to that. But when we're saying rake, it's basically like when you're playing a hand in poker, I'm going to use round numbers here, and there's $100 in the pot, and someone wins it at the end. The house, which would normally be a casino, takes 2% or something like that.
- [12:59]
B
And it's every hand.
- [13:00]
A
Yes.
- [13:01]
B
So.
- [13:01]
A
But.
- [13:01]
B
But it's. It's a little different than if you go to the borgata to play 2, 5. It's like the rake that they're taking is insane. So let's say it's a 5K pot. They're. They're palm and chips. The. Like, it's. You don't even know how much they're taking half the time.
- [13:17]
A
They're palm and chips.
- [13:18]
B
Yeah. It's crazy. So, like, in one game, they can. They're making hundreds of thousands just off the rake. And it's like, that's the ridiculousness of it. And that's. I'm going to guarantee what some of the old timers in some of these families are saying. What the fuck? We had a good thing here. And that's why in a way, like I say, the mob and Chauncey kind of got screwed because one makes the other a lot more salacious. Right. If the NBA guys aren't in this, this is just another indictment.
- [13:48]
A
That's right. No one talks.
- [13:49]
B
This has happened four or five times against. No one talks about it over the last year.
- [13:53]
A
Yeah, there was expense.
- [13:54]
B
There was one in this state within three months ago, but there was no Chauncey Billups or whoever else. So only I heard about it.
- [14:02]
A
I remember Jeff Nadeu reporting on that Wayne Syndicate.
- [14:06]
B
Yeah, I'm one of the only people that does this. So it's like. But this is now a international story on every news station and every talking head in sports media is talking about it because it's a current NBA coach. Chauncey's problems are not in this case, they're in the other case. The fact that you're an open coach in the league currently. He coached the first night of the season just days ago. Yeah.
- [14:32]
A
Got indicted the next and then a.
- [14:34]
B
Day later he's, you know, that's, that's going to ruin his legacy. Like I said, if you're in these circles, like the gambling circle, like it wasn't overly surprising, at least to the people that I talked to, that Chauncey Billups was involved with this. So I mean, they had a feeling as far. Yeah. As far as the poker.
- [14:53]
A
Okay, we're going to come back to the poker thing and get into the nitty gritty with that. But we keep referencing this other case, which is the one you have it up here, Danny. It was the DL one. Yeah. So this one has. You said Chauncey's involved with this one despite the fact that he's not listed as a defendant.
- [15:10]
B
Yeah. So I want to start to be getting in this because this is, this is really like, it's fascinating how it all comes together. So there's two names in this six person indictment that are important. Number one is a person, De Niro Laster. Okay. Now De Niro Laster is a kid from near Cleveland, Shaker Heights area. Played college football, University of Kentucky. That kind of, you know, he's a pretty decent player. Played on D1. Terry Rozier, scary Terry. Correct. Went to a high school within five miles of him. They're friends, They've been friends, I believe they both graduated in 2014, I believe. So it all kind of comes together there. So there's the connection. They know each other. Okay. The biggest name though is Marvis Fairley. He's this guy from Mississippi. He goes by Bazino. He's in this indictment also. He is a sports betting tout handicapper. He has Instagram pages, that sort of thing where he sells pics.
- [16:20]
A
So he's like this stew finder in Mississippi.
- [16:22]
B
Right. And these are really. These people are very pervasive now, whether it's on Instagram, Twitter, you know, you'll see him driving around in really nice cars and they kind of sell the. You can be me if you listen to my gambling advice, you know. And I'm not stating whether he wins or loses. I don't know. I'm just going by what the indictment tells us. Rozier, there was talk that in a game, I believe it was 20, 24 against, was when we play for Charlotte, he plays in a game, he goes out eight minutes into the game with an injury. There would be extremely irregular betting into that prop. And that's the one thing that before I think you get into the actual case itself. One of the reasons that this is, I think very pervasive now is prop bets because when you were, when you were fixing like a point spread years ago, you almost had to have one or two or three people involved. I guess you could have one person do it, but a prop is so much easier to rig because it's literally the only. They're the person. The person controls whether they get enough rebounds or assists or whatever. And you look at a person like Rogier who isn't a big. He's not a wing player, he's a guard. So rebounds are his unlikeliest stat to gain. They were slamming his under rebound prop.
- [17:48]
A
What was it, like 1.5?
- [17:50]
B
I don't remember what it was, but it didn't matter because he went out of the game anyway. And as long as you play, the action counts. So they won automatically. And what they would announce in these indictments is it was extremely irregular. And what was happening was Rozier was communicating to Mr. Laster that you know, this was going to happen. According to the indictment, he went to Marvis Fairley and some of Fairley's co conspirators and they went to legal sports books and bet a ton of money on them.
- [18:20]
A
Do they have any text messages indicating that or is it all like phone logs?
- [18:25]
B
That hasn't been explained in the indictment, but I would imagine, yeah, whether it be there. There is some mention of apps like Damon Jones was sent money through Zell, things like that. And. And I have to tell you about a text message where. And we get to the dam because it's all. Every athlete has their own kind of story.
- [18:42]
A
Yeah.
- [18:42]
B
Now when we talk about Billups, Chauncey had a friend who I mentioned called Eric Ernest. Eric Earnest's name is involved in both poker and sports bank. He's kind of. Someone described him to me as like kind of a hustler. He's kind of always out there making money in games. I don't know how he makes a living, but people said that he's a guy that's out there in these games playing, betting sports, that sort of thing. Billups has. It's towards the end of the season, the Trailblazers are out of the playoff race and now we're fighting for spot in the draft lottery. So the worst team has the best chance. He initiates a conversation with Mr. Earnest that certain people aren't going to play, they're going to tank. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is again an NBA sitting head coach. It's insane doing this.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah.
- [19:37]
B
Okay. So he then gets this to Earnest. Earnest also goes to Marvis Fairley, who's this sports betting handicapper guy. And they make money off this.
- [19:50]
A
So the idea though that a sitting head coach would be involved in fixing their own team's games, especially to the downside, is like worst case scenario, I will say.
- [20:02]
B
And I think it is important, like fix, I think is a bit strong. I think he was giving information that the public was not given as well. So he, it was insider trading, essentially. Fixing would be like. I know what you're saying.
- [20:18]
A
If he takes out a guy who's got 37 points in the fourth quarter with two minutes to go because he needs to get some sort of prop bet through and then they lose the game. That's fixing.
- [20:26]
B
I'm just looking out for you. You never know. They take every word you say.
- [20:31]
A
But everything today is allegedly.
- [20:34]
B
Sure.
- [20:34]
A
And it's allegedly.
- [20:35]
B
And it's all in these indictments. I mean, that's the thing about indictments is like I wish people would just read them. They map out everything, you know. And I think what the problem in this case is in these, both these cases is literally no media read the indictment because they're saying a bunch of shit that just hasn't happened.
- [20:51]
A
But like what?
- [20:53]
B
Well, like again, like that Billups was playing with mobsters.
- [20:57]
A
Right?
- [20:57]
B
He didn't, but yeah. So Billups gives out information that the public was not made to know or didn't know at that point.
- [21:06]
A
Why is he not listed as a def. As. As a defendant on the indictment though? That's what I'm confused at. He.
- [21:13]
B
He's. Oh, oh. Because he's co conspirator 8. They didn't. They didn't name him. Go to the part where it discusses Portland Trailblazers. It. It essentially describes him. He's co conspirator 8.
- [21:24]
A
Do edit find next Danny and type in Portland.
- [21:28]
B
Yeah, it's. It's the part where they discuss the Portland.
- [21:31]
A
Okay, so the mb this is section seven. The NBA was a professional. Oh no. That lists all the team go to next. Yeah, I think it's maybe page March 24, 2023 Portland Trailblazers game. I'm going to read this Jeff, so people have it. All right, fair enough. On or about March 24, 2023, the Portland Trail Blazers played the Chicago Bulls. Prior to the game, the Trailblazers record was 32 and 40 and the team was out of playoff contention with only 10 games remaining in the season prior to the March 24 game. Co conspirator 8 There he is. Told the defendant, Eric Ernest, there's your connection that the Trailblazers were going to be tanking, I. E. Intentionally losing to increase their odds of getting a better draft pick in the upcoming NBA draft. CO conspirator conspirator 8 told Ernest before the news was publicly announced that several of the Trailblazers best players, including Player 1, an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury but is not announced here, would be playing in the March 24 game. The information that the Trailblazers would be tanking and not playing Player one was not available to the public, including the betting companies. Prior to the March 24 game, the defendant, Eric Ernest provided this non public inside information to the defendant, Marvis Fairley, so that Fairly could place fraudulent wages on the game and show the profits with and share the profits with Ernest. In exchange, Fairly ultimately promised to pay earnest at least $5,000 if the bets go down a page if the bets against the Trailblazers were successful. In addition, Fairley texted Earnest. There it is. A screenshot of a purported $20,000 wire transfer from Fairly's bank account to Earnest, accompanied by the message address for wire. That's insane that you would put that.
- [23:16]
B
On it when what's. What. What also you didn't read is they Describe Co Conspirator 8 and he's a NBA All Star. Hall of Famer that played in the league from these days to this date and he's a prominent coach for the Trailblaz. So it essentially makes chauncey billups co conspirator 8.
- [23:33]
A
So why didn't they put his. I'm so confused. What's the legal thing there?
- [23:36]
B
I think there's, there's all sorts of, there's some co conspirators in here that are, that are named co conspirators. There are player certain one to be named. Like they figured out you can figure out who these people are.
- [23:48]
A
Right.
- [23:48]
B
My guess is though there could be superseding charges on, on actually charge him.
- [23:54]
A
In a later indictment probably because right now he's technically not charged in that indictment.
- [23:58]
B
Technically.
- [23:59]
A
Technically.
- [24:01]
B
And that would have to be something the feds would have to answer like why is he not listed? But like this is, you know, everybody's put this out already. But yeah, I mean it's really as simple as it says here. And this is again something I've tried to understand when you were a criminal really in any circle, this right here is the end for you.
- [24:23]
A
Yes. Because the phone.
- [24:25]
B
Yeah. And it's just so you know how hard it is to communicate without a phone. You know, even as simple as something like you go to do a murder and the phone's in your pocket and you think it's turned off. And it's not like that doesn't mean shit.
- [24:36]
A
Yeah.
- [24:37]
B
The only way you can stay away is by not having the phone with you.
- [24:40]
A
And you know what to your point is everybody, bro, I just had Mike Eagley in this chair two times.
- [24:45]
B
Yeah, I watched that. Yeah.
- [24:46]
A
So he literally tracked and went to the government to say you have a problem. From his bedroom with publicly available data, he tracked phones leaving Fort Bragg, going back to certain addresses, got the names of everyone there and then would watch these phones every month or two go to fucking Syria to Lafarge Concrete company and went to the government and said hey guys, your Delta Force undercover operation is findable in my bedroom. What do you think China's doing? So it's like now, now if you're a regular two bit criminal, think about how easy it is.
- [25:16]
B
But like what even is more like amazing about some of the stupidity in is like you don't even try to use like signal or telegram. Like you're just doing it on like a regular text message. You're then taking the money, wiring it. Like there's just so many things that like these people do. And again like I think anyone thinks Like, I'm not going to get caught. And I think in terms of, like, why the players did this, why the coaches did this, I think most of it probably goes back to the fact that they owed money. And like, when you look at John Tay Porter, who I talked about, johntay Porter owed a gambling debt.
- [25:53]
A
Yes.
- [25:54]
B
And he owed a gambling debt to some of the people that are listed in these indictments. So I think they go to them and say, look, you know, we're not going to threaten you. We're not going to do anything like that, but you owe me. Just don't grab a rebound. No one's ever going to find out, you know, and. And he thinks like, well, I do owe this and, you know, I want to keep betting or I don't want to have any problems, so I'm going to do it. And I just think the thought is no one would ever get caught, you know.
- [26:19]
A
You know what I want to know with this? This is where my head goes to. This can be very interesting if it's, if it comes out in court is these platforms, these betting platforms, they're obviously, you know, online electronic. They have their automatic data collectors. I wonder if people at the company flag these.
- [26:39]
B
Well, I'm going to tell you why they absolutely are. And this is how these people have been caught. I mentioned prop bets and kind of how they work. If on tonight's Monday Night Football game, there's millions of dollars in action, that's going to be very normal. Right. But some random prop. And that's the thing about these people. They didn't even try to hide, like, and bet, you know, 10, 20,000.
- [26:57]
A
Right.
- [26:58]
B
It was, we're going to bet as much as we can on some random prop, and we're the only people that know about it, like it. And this is why when someone brings up, well, see, this is what gambling's doing to these leagues. No, this is the good thing about why we have legalized gambling, because regulators spot this shit. And without. That's what the good thing about a regulated market is. It's regulated. It's just like, this has been one of my thoughts on why we need to legalize narcotics in America. Because when you legalize something, there's a regulated board that looks over it and makes sure that everything's working.
- [27:36]
A
So here's the one thing about that, Jeff, because I would like to think that way, too. But, like, something that I supported forever and do support is a legalization of weed. And yet I just had Steve Robinson in here, who's Uncovered all the ways that because they mass legalized it at once, all the ways fucking everyone's breaking every law and the regulars aren't doing shit about it.
- [27:57]
B
And that is true. That said, when it's illegal, there is no sort of oversight and everybody's doing it anyway.
- [28:04]
A
That's true.
- [28:05]
B
And when I talk about gambling, like if we didn't have legalization and we didn't have some of these big sports books and a regulated body that look over it, some of this stuff maybe wouldn't be under scrutiny. And remember, before PASPA was passed, the legalized betting law, this was all done offshore. So that brings in the fact of you're now dealing with foreign governments, maybe in some that we don't even deal with. And there's no way to even understand what's going on. So, yeah, I think the flagging of the wages, that's why this stuff popped up. And we've seen that with some of the other investigations that these bodies are doing. There was investigations the last several years into various college games. Temple University, New Orleans.
- [28:47]
A
Can you explain that one? The Temple University, yeah.
- [28:50]
B
So there was irregular bets on point spreads, wide moves in the line. I'm talking 13, 14 point moves in a basketball game, which is insane. And what we've seen is a lot of those are and have been under investigation. So I think all these people, and I'm gonna maybe say something that no one else has heard, but if you don't, and I'm not saying it's these people in these indictments, but there is a group of people currently, and it's not the mafia or anything like that, it's young kids that have a bunch of money that bet they're going to athletes and saying, look, everybody's doing this. You want to make some money sometime, hit me up. We'll make it work for you. I think that's absolutely going on because when we hear nil, you know, we think about, you know, the Cooper Flags of the world who are making tons of money. A lot of the schools involved in some of this stuff that were investigated, you know, schools like, you know, North Carolina, A&T was investigation.
- [29:51]
A
Yeah, they're making nothing.
- [29:52]
B
You know, people like that, they're not making little if any money. And, you know, I think it's just a real simple thought of like the money just dropped off on your stoop, you know, and, you know, you do what you got to do. Now, that hasn't been involved in an indictment. There's been investigations. Are they working towards something with that if they do, that's going to be really big.
- [30:15]
A
Oh, dude, I'll bet it's coming and it's coming.
- [30:18]
B
I think what's the sad part for me is like, I. I love college sports. It's my bread and butter when it comes to sports betting. I thoroughly enjoy it. And to hear I bet on that UAB Temple game, the one that I talked about. I mean, I remember the game perfectly. So it's.
- [30:36]
A
When was this? Last year.
- [30:37]
B
This was. I remember the game, it was like 100 to 72 or something. It was a wild game. Was it? The years run so consecutively. I think it was late 23, early 24. And I remember it was a big story. And the reason this whole, like there's a shadowy group that's doing this. There was a TikTok that went viral from some like third string quarterback at like Vanderbilt or something. And he said that he knows that there's this like Mafia like group that came to him and people just threw it out like, oh, this fucking kid's rage baiting or something. Engagement farming. And you know, I think in the circles that I've gotten to know and been in, like this is definitely happening.
- [31:23]
A
Oh yeah.
- [31:24]
B
You know, and I again want to, I don't want to be sit here and act like I'm an apologist for the Mafia, because I'm not. But like, I think what it really is is people that are likely maybe running games, poker games, and they also are sports bettors. Maybe they're someone who knows a mobster and they use it as. You don't want to say no to me.
- [31:44]
A
Right?
- [31:44]
B
You know, it's a tactic. I don't think they're out there like threatening to hurt people. It's just kind of. And that's the funny thing that I learned about in all the mob stuff I'm doing. Like, I think most Joe Q Public, they hear the word mafia and they think like, you know, what the movies have told us, you know, or what the Mafia maybe was 50 years ago. The mafia is not the powerful group that it was once.
- [32:11]
A
Right.
- [32:12]
B
But most people assume that it still is. Like if I go out on the street right now and I ask five people, when you hear the word mafia, what do you think of, you know, what they're gonna say?
- [32:22]
A
Generally murder.
- [32:24]
B
No. Tony Soprano.
- [32:26]
A
Oh, you're thinking of.
- [32:27]
B
They're just gonna bring up some fake movie actor or something or John Gotti or something like that. I think that most of America has a. A lost thought on like what, like Even some of the reporting in this, it's like the Mafia. It's like, from someone that I. I don't like to call myself an expert.
- [32:44]
A
But, like, you're an expert in the Mafia. Okay, well.
- [32:47]
B
And I'll tell you, like, I've been doing this four years. The amount of people in that life that have contacted me in one way or another that say, I love your show. I mean, I could write a book. I mean, it's not like they're bashing down my door a lot of the time. Look, would I walk around certain neighborhoods in Staten island or something by myself? Probably not.
- [33:11]
A
No one would.
- [33:11]
B
You know, I think it's really just like, you know, you worry about maybe some of the young kids that get upset or something. But, like I'm trying to point out here is the Mafia. I don't. They don't have that capability to go to athletes and stuff. They're not doing that. These are young people doing this.
- [33:25]
A
You've made the claim, though, publicly.
- [33:27]
B
Yeah.
- [33:27]
A
That the Mafia hasn't dropped a body in years. Now, before I fact. Before I go into this, there is no doubt that as far as, like, dropping bodies and stuff like that goes, compared to 30 years ago, there's no doubt that that would have pulled back a lot. But you're telling me that they haven't whacked anybody in the last decade.
- [33:48]
B
There is a no kill order in the mob right now.
- [33:51]
A
What. What kind of source do you have on that?
- [33:55]
B
There haven't been any.
- [33:57]
A
Yeah. That we know of.
- [33:58]
B
No, but let me explain it like this. So I want to also backtrack because there'll be people in the comments saying, well, hold on a second. Frank Cali, the alleged acting boss of the Gambino crime family, was killed in 2019. He wasn't killed by someone in the mob. He was killed by a crazed individual that he had a beef with.
- [34:19]
A
Right.
- [34:19]
B
Who was not in the Mafia, conveniently. Right. No, you can look it up. Anthony Comello was ruled insane. He's in a nut house somewhere in New York. That's the truth.
- [34:29]
A
I mean, does he have, like, a good coach as a lawyer or.
- [34:35]
B
Look, I don't like that pause, do I? I did an investigation into Anthony Comello. I talked to people that knew him as a child. I talked to people that knew him as a high schooler. Do I think at some point Anthony Camillo had a dream to be a mob guy? Probably. He was from Staten Island. Every kid does.
- [34:54]
A
Right.
- [34:54]
B
But was he in a family? Connected to a family? And did it for, you know, maybe in his stupid warped head he thought he was gonna impress somebody, but he was not sent by someone else. Frank Cali, if you talk around, was very respected by everybody that I know of in that life. No one said a bad word about him. He was a very powerful individual. He wasn't somewhere out there, he, you know, in public like a John Gotti would be. He was very low key, made money. He was a Sicilian guy, very respected.
- [35:24]
A
Wait, he was actually. So he's a zip. He was actually from Sicily.
- [35:26]
B
Yeah, he was part of the Sicilian faction of the family. Got it. And he, you know, he married into a pretty prominent family, so there's no involvement. Camillo was not like, working for someone else. And another family wanted Frank Cali dead. The last known murder involving the mob. Involving the mob was a guy, Michael Meldish, who was taken out in, I think it was 2014 in the Bronx. Michael Meldish was a Jewish guy. He was a gangster. And he had worked with the mob for years, off and on. The alleged people that did that hit were associates of the Mafia. That's the.
- [36:03]
A
Why did they do it?
- [36:05]
B
Well, there's a number of reasons why Michael Meldish was taken out. It's never truly been proven, one of which was that he owed money, a large amount of money, and he was basically telling them him to fuck off and he was not going to pay it. There's also a growing concern that Meldish was dating a woman that was connected to another member, because Meldish was actually beaten at a festival about a year before by members and associates of the Bonanno crime family, one of which is right here.
- [36:34]
A
Ernest Aiello.
- [36:35]
B
Ernest Aiello.
- [36:35]
A
Wasn't he just found guilty of something else, too?
- [36:37]
B
No, that's Joe Lonnie. I'll talk about Joe. Joe. Joe's. Joe's had a bad couple of weeks. But Ernest Aiello, weirdly enough, was someone who beat up Michael Meldish at. It was. I think it was the Giglio Feast, which is in Harlem. I think it's every October. I think it was just a couple of weeks ago Michael Meldish was attacked. And Ernie was supposedly one of the people that did that.
- [37:00]
A
And then a year later, he's dead.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah. So there's growing thought the people that were. That they ended up finding out. Suppose we did this. Were tied to the boss of the Lucchese crime family, a guy, Matty Madonna. He's actually serving life for this hit. Yeah, he's old. He's like in his late 80s they sent two hitters. One of them was a black associate, Terence Caldwell. He did pieces of work for the family occasionally. And then another kid, Chris Londonio is his name. And yeah, that was the last known mob hit. Some families like the Colombo family, the last known murder involving a member of the mob by another member of the mob was way back in 1999.
- [37:43]
A
Again though that we know of.
- [37:45]
B
Well, here's the thing. I mean we would know if someone was killed. I mean it would be reported.
- [37:50]
A
Nobody, no crime.
- [37:53]
B
Someone would wonder where they are.
- [37:54]
A
Sure, but there's some people every day.
- [37:56]
B
All I'm saying is, and you can, you could talk to Jerry Capeci at Gangland News, you could talk to any prominent bigger than me reporter on the mob. The ones that are still out there. There's largely been a no coder and we know that too because if you notice where are all the rats now? They're on YouTube, right? They walk around Little Italy. Yeah, the mob doesn't even kill them.
- [38:22]
A
That now hold on. So that would make sense to me though because of the public availability.
- [38:27]
B
I'm going to tell you why they don't do it. Because they've been neutered by the government. That's why they don't have power to do that anymore. And they're under scrutiny. They're constantly. Look at any time they can use the mafia in something, look at what happens, right? Anybody will tell you they're not killing nobody. It's not happening. Could some nutcase go off the deep end and do it and go off cold cock.
- [38:51]
A
Maybe now why don't they make. And I know they make some cases but you don't hear about it. I'm just gonna name one, for example about cases made against the Russian mafia a lot because that's totally different. I've talked to FBI guys who have been very specific that to be clear more along your thinking, the mafia doesn't really drop a lot of bodies anymore. They don't go as far as you and say they do none. But they do say like it's not like it used to be for sure. But they're like the Russians.
- [39:17]
B
What I also want to say, and I also want to make this clear, this is really important to say when I talk about no kill order, I'm talking about Cosa Nostra. Yes, five family. Yes, I know that I'm not like. I know you look at other organized and this is why the mafia is no longer on the criminal toes. Totem pole at the top.
- [39:32]
A
But that's why I'm asking Jeff.
- [39:33]
B
Yeah.
- [39:34]
A
If. If another type of Mafia faction, in this case, like the Russians are doing.
- [39:38]
B
That shit, which they are Albanians, you got.
- [39:41]
A
And they're not getting cr. There's not a giant public manhunt for the Russian organizations. What's stopping the Italians from being like, well, I guess we'd be okay, too?
- [39:50]
B
Well, because the difference between these groups and the one that we're talking about here is there have been some of the greatest films ever, ever made about them.
- [39:58]
A
You don't like Eastern Promises.
- [40:00]
B
It's a great movie, but it's not the Godfather. It's not Goodfellas. It's not the greatest television of all time. The Sopranos.
- [40:06]
A
Yes.
- [40:06]
B
The Mafia has become a pariah for the government, and they will. And they've done a great job stamping them out. I'm not going to tell you they haven't. That is probably the one thing this government from an organized crime at the FBI level did very well. And all of these guys, and I use that word neutered, because that's. That's what they are. They are.
- [40:26]
A
They.
- [40:26]
B
They are a eclipsed group that they cross the street the wrong way. Oh, yeah, they're getting jammed up. And I think this is what makes this indictment, this poker thing, so kind of crazy to me, because some of the people that they did end up doing business with here are.
- [40:42]
A
Are.
- [40:42]
B
Are considered what I would say to be hotheads. I do find it interesting that most of the. The mob guys in this. So your Ernie Aiello, Didino, Lee Fama, Tommy Gelardo, they're all in terms of the mob.
- [40:57]
A
Young wasn't Ruggiero's kid in this, too.
- [40:59]
B
Yep. Quack, quack. Yeah, Junior.
- [41:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:02]
B
You also have Joe Lonnie, who I could talk about.
- [41:05]
A
Yeah, Joe Lonnie's the one who's having a bad month.
- [41:08]
B
Yeah, Joe's had a really bad month. And you do look at. And what I referenced in a recent show I did about Lonnie and his people, I would say if there is a semblance of some violence coming back, we're starting to see it. In some of the recent indictments, particularly Joe's indictment, Joe was involved in late 2023 in an indictment surrounding members and associates of the Gambino crime family. Joe is a captain, allegedly. He is part of the Sicilian faction. He has ears to some of the top brass in that group. Joe and his associates were attempting to take over the carding and demolition industries. So essentially garbage and demolition and in that indictment, there are pervasive acts of violence. I'm talking about beating people with hammers, lighting things on fire.
- [41:56]
A
And that's what I'm talking about.
- [41:58]
B
And that's where. And I talked about that in a recent video. And I discussed kind of why the Gambino crime family on certain levels is starting to come back just a bit. And I think what goes to your argument and why you could see it maybe the next few years is recently. And what's funny is the FBI had mentioned about a month ago in a press release that you probably didn't even see that the. There's actually only one FBI squad now looking at all five families. C5. That's the only unit left. And I think with that and less oversight and some of. Again, these families are starting to get more young. And I talked about why the Gambino. They're starting to make new members. 20, 30, 40 years old. These are younger people in terms of the mob. And what I find that goes hand in hand with this is in the Lanny indictment. And in this indictment, younger people. Tommy Gilardo's like 40, 39, I think.
- [42:54]
A
And he has some sort of kind of senior role.
- [42:57]
B
Violent stuff. Yeah. And, you know, so I think if, as I said, I don't believe there's been any murders, and I know there hasn't been, could there be in the next few years? It wouldn't surprise me. But if you read to these indictments, there is starting to be more and more violence. And for anyone that says this isn't a violent case, I mean, you have to go back to, for instance, count six, Hobzack robbery, conspiracy. We talked about the cheating.
- [43:26]
A
Yeah.
- [43:26]
B
How they cheated was they were using rigged shuffling machines. Now, any casino in America, you've played poker, they all have shuffling machines. The thing that makes these different is think of it like a ghost gun. You have to get parts to assemble a ghost gun. You have to have someone add a switch to it even.
- [43:45]
A
Right.
- [43:46]
B
That has to be done by a person in particular. Not anybody can do that.
- [43:49]
A
Oh, shit. They're doing that with shuffling machines.
- [43:51]
B
Yeah. Think of it also like if you. If you. You watch Breaking Bad, right?
- [43:56]
A
Yeah, I did.
- [43:57]
B
So one of the challenges that Walt and Jesse have early on is they're trying to cook meth by using Sudafed, which is. You have to have a ton of Sudafed.
- [44:06]
A
Right.
- [44:07]
B
And there's now actually a law where, like, I have Zyrtec D, I use it for allergies. You can't buy more than one pack of Zyrtec. I don't know if you know that you have to sign, like a paper.
- [44:17]
A
Yeah.
- [44:18]
B
And that protects it against people. They call them Smurfs. They would take Smurfs and send them in the drugstores and buy a bunch of Sudafed. And what Walt and Jesse realize is if they get methylphenidate, I believe it is, they get in the big drums, they can make all sorts of method. It's way easier. But getting that's hard. Same thing with a rig shuffling machine. You can get a shuffler, but getting someone with a certain set of skills that can shuffle it and rig it, that's another story. And what these guys did, the greed, they didn't even pay for it. They just jammed the guy up and stole it from him. That's your hobzack robbery, conspiracy. And not only these geniuses, they use their own cars to do it. You see them on pole cameras, there's toll records. And they set him up. They pick the guy up with the shuffling machine. John Doe 7, he has the shuffling machine in his hands. Two of the defendants have a car in park, and two other defendants come up and rob him of the shuffling machine.
- [45:18]
A
Where is that in count six?
- [45:20]
B
That's in count seven.
- [45:21]
A
Okay.
- [45:22]
B
And I'll find where it describes what.
- [45:24]
A
They did in particular about between September 2023 and October 2023, both dates being approved, approximate and inclusive, within the Eastern District of New York and elsewhere. The defendants saw Bel Betcher Zen, who also known as Jonathan Chan. I love how it's. Jonathan.
- [45:39]
B
Yeah.
- [45:41]
A
Jonathan who? Screwy and Stanley and Seth Trussman, together with others, did knowingly and intentionally conspire to obstruct, delay and affect commerce and the movement of articles and commodities and commerce by extortion. In that the defendants and others obtain property, to wit, United States currency from John Doe number six with his consent, which consent was induced by wrongful use.
- [46:04]
B
I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
- [46:05]
A
In force, violence and fear.
- [46:07]
B
I'm going to send you the detention memo in this.
- [46:09]
A
The detention memo?
- [46:10]
B
Yeah. That will describe. That's actually better than the indictment. I can email it to you right now. That's right there.
- [46:18]
A
Yeah.
- [46:18]
B
That's enough.
- [46:19]
A
Okay. All right. Sorry, we couldn't find that for a minute. So we're back now. All right. I'm going to read this, Jeff. So this is the. What's it called? A detention.
- [46:27]
B
This is a part of the detention memo.
- [46:29]
A
Yeah. Okay. So robbery of John Doe number seven, count six, as Charged in count six of the indictment, defendants Awade, Hody, Mola, Manucci and Stroud plotted to rob a rig shuffling machine from John Doe number seven in September 2023. The robbery was successful in the early morning hours of September 7, 2023. Specifically, Stroud learned that John Doe 7, who was also involved in the operation of rig poker games, had had a rigged version of the deckmate one shuffler and he plotted with others to rob it from John Doe 7 at gunpoint. In the early morning hours of September 7, 2023, John Doe 7 was in was in a car with Hodi and Mazzola where two individuals recruited by Manucci approached the car brandish a gun and demanded the box from John Doe 7. At the time of the robbery, Hody, who was driving the car and in on the scheme along with Mazzola, kept the car in park and did not drive away. John Doe number seven turned over the rig shuffling machine to Minucci and the gunman. Evidence of the robbery includes text messages, pole camera footage and lighting's plate ready information showing that cars registered to Minuchi and Hody participated in the robbery. For example, on September 6, 2023, the day before the robbery, Goodson sent Stroud a photograph of John Doe 7 at the airport, apparently confirming that John Doe 7 had arrived in New York. At approximately 12:31am on September 7, poll camera footage showed Minucci's car arrive at Lexington Avenue at the same time. Right by the location to the same time Hody texted hour day, Nick is here. Do I let him up? I guess meaning light him up. To which I would a replied, tell him I'm coming down.
- [47:59]
B
No, that's the Nick was there to see him. Kind of like when I came here.
- [48:04]
A
Right.
- [48:04]
B
You know, Come on.
- [48:05]
A
Okay, so scroll down Danny. After the robbery, Hannah Day and I would say exchanged the following messages about how Awade had participated in the robbery of the decade.
- [48:15]
B
And so these messages are kind of quite funny. Hennon text howadi and says so you're robbing D1 machines now. And he sends a meme back like you hide your wife, hide your kids meme. And yeah, so it's just like very.
- [48:31]
A
Like it's nice to mobsters use memes too.
- [48:33]
B
Yeah, like, but these are like just young like game runner cheats that are like stealing shuffling machines. And there's also another situation where eventually. So I mentioned there's two games. There was one in Greenwich Village, 80 Washington Place and then there's one up in midtown. It's Lexington Avenue, 147 Lexington Avenue. It's in Kips Bay. At one point, the mob.
- [48:55]
A
Great neighborhoods, too.
- [48:56]
B
Yeah. At one point, the mob members and associates decide that they're going to combine both of the games. They're going to just have one big game on Lex. To which defendant Awadi says, fuck you guys. I'm starting my own game, and I'm going to keep it at Washington, and you're not gonna do shit about it, and I'm gonna have it the same day and time as you. To which the other count of violence comes in where defendant Gilardo and Ziliani, they're both. One's a mob made guy, the other's an associate. They run in this house during a game and beat up Awadi. And then Gelardo texts the other co. Conspirators and says, keep him the fuck away from us. Don't talk to any of him and his people. He's dead to us, basically.
- [49:44]
A
So imagine telling the mob, fuck you, I'm doing my own game.
- [49:47]
B
Well, but, but I think this goes back to what I said earlier, that, like, I think some guys just don't really worry about it. And I think. Think that nothing's going to happen. And there are still some. Some tough guys that are willing to hurt. Like, Gelardo is a. You know, anybody that I've talked to is a tough guy. Like, he's. He's a, you know, he. He goes. The gym guy, you know, he's. If you've ever seen Tommy Gelardo, you know, like, he's.
- [50:09]
A
Pull him up. Tommy.
- [50:10]
B
Tommy's, you know, he dated a mob wife.
- [50:13]
A
He's, you know, like from the show.
- [50:15]
B
Yeah.
- [50:16]
A
Yeah. Which one?
- [50:18]
B
She's in one of the pictures. Beautiful girl. I mean, I. I'll tell you one thing about Tommy. He has no trouble with the ladies.
- [50:25]
A
Yeah.
- [50:28]
B
He'S a. He's a big. That guy right there.
- [50:30]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [50:31]
B
Would you mess with him?
- [50:32]
A
He's. He's a big dude. Yeah.
- [50:34]
B
And Tommy is, you know. You know, he's a money maker.
- [50:38]
A
They see this fucking Ayo. Chauncey. Yeah, Chauncey. One in.
- [50:42]
B
What are you doing here?
- [50:43]
A
Yeah.
- [50:43]
B
You know, and they just ran in the game. And I think that's when this all kind of came apart, these games. Because I think one thing, like, when we look at these game runners, some of the guys in this indictment, so, like Amara Wadi, Saul Bettcher, like, all these guys, they run the games and they just kind of work in unison with these guys.
- [51:01]
A
What does that. See the one that says exclusive shell Shock. To the right, to the right, to the right. A little more. Right there. What does that say?
- [51:08]
B
That's Chauncey Bill.
- [51:10]
A
Yeah, but okay, I didn't know if it was showing this guy in the picture. It doesn't. Is that way. Is that Sophia way right there?
- [51:17]
B
I don't believe so. I think this is some sort of like charity game or something. But okay, yeah, that's just kind of, I think, showing us that he plays poker. I don't know what that's from. It could be. I've only seen her in one photo, so I don't know, a fan. But.
- [51:33]
A
But you would. To go back to Chauncey for one sec, just as a sidebar. So as you laid out towards the beginning of our conversation, you had heard that he was big into just gambling in general for years.
- [51:44]
B
Yeah.
- [51:45]
A
Did anyone ever insinuate to you that he was in debt to a lot of people and that he would therefore be a threat for insider.
- [51:56]
B
Well, you know, here's what I'll tell you. And this actually went viral the day this came out. This was said several years ago by a guy, Matt Berkey. He's a poker. Professional poker, Big poker player.
- [52:08]
A
Oh, I saw this video.
- [52:09]
B
Berkey has a podcast and he talked about years ago. He said it in 2019. You know, I knew this game was no good and Chauncey was at it. But like I said, the reason why, I think Chauncey, at least in the poker stuff, like I've said time and time again, I don't think he ever knew anyone in the mob. He played in a game that some of these defendants kind of worked overlapping on the west coast because these guys are all around the country.
- [52:34]
A
Well, that's. Jeff, that's also underscoring like a wild point here, the fact that it's some of these games where they're rigging it. They invite professional poker players who do nothing but play poker and are poker geniuses. They are that confident, wrongly so that they're not going to be caught, that they invite guys whose job it is to play the game and assume they're going to be like, oh, well, I guess I just got cleaned out by Chauncey Billups. Like, come on.
- [53:02]
B
Well, and that's. And that's why they, they reference, like the face card thing.
- [53:05]
A
Yeah.
- [53:06]
B
Which. Yeah, so a face card was, you know, a member of the cheating team that received some sort of, you know, money from it. He was. Then you have the quarter or the quarterback, which, like, directs all the people and what to do, because when you get these shuffling machines, there's also like stuff under the table that could read the card that has to be pushed to someone else and then in turn to someone else. So there's a lot of people that need to be involved. And then Chauncey and Damon Jones were involved in, you know, bringing like a guy, Kevin Garnett or something, big fish. Yeah, right.
- [53:43]
A
Victims.
- [53:44]
B
And that's the thing as well. I mean, I think the big thing that I would include in the poker stuff is there are two separate sets of games. The ones that are controlled by New York and the mobile and then all the other ones. Yeah, you know.
- [53:58]
A
Yeah, I think. You know, also it's got to be said the fact that if you're going to attract big fish, forget just the poker players, they're also allegedly attracting celebrity friends with deep pockets. And by the way, Kevin Garnett is someone who got taken for, I believe, $77 million by a financial advisor back in the day. So this is someone who's been a victim to stuff before. And if, and if this is alleged to be true, you, his friend Chauncey Bills, bring him to a game that you know is getting rigged. That is some low. I mean, it's all low life, but that is some low, low life.
- [54:34]
B
Yeah.
- [54:35]
A
And Kevin Garnett was just in Uncut Gems, which is a movie about, like, I mean, you can't even make this shit up.
- [54:40]
B
But, but I do think, like, I, I think we have to also remember, like, there's a, there's a fine line between, like, playing poker and though taking a rake is illegal. Like, everybody does that.
- [54:51]
A
Yes.
- [54:52]
B
You know, but like, where it becomes really scammy is when you're, again, like you just said, you're cheating. Like you're, you know, also, like when you play in these games, Like, I talked to one guy that played at Lex, the Lex game. He said he played there many times. He said, I asked him, I said, so if there are 10 games, how many are being cheated? He said all 10.
- [55:10]
A
And he knew it.
- [55:10]
B
Yeah.
- [55:11]
A
So he stopped playing those games.
- [55:13]
B
Exactly.
- [55:13]
A
Right.
- [55:13]
B
And he even told them my opinion.
- [55:15]
A
What kind of guy was this? Like, any someone.
- [55:18]
B
This guy? I mean. Yeah, I mean, this guy knows people for sure. I mean, is he a May guy? No, but like, he, he, he plays. You know, a lot of guys play. Maybe they run a game or something. But like, he knew what was going on. I mean, I think. But then again, there are people that just don't care. They have money, they don't Care like some of the fish that are in these games in New York, they don't.
- [55:40]
A
Care that they're losing and being.
- [55:41]
B
No, they're degenerate gamblers.
- [55:43]
A
But they, if they can't win.
- [55:44]
B
But I don't know if they knew. That's the thing.
- [55:46]
A
Right. Okay.
- [55:47]
B
Some people didn't. Some smart guys like you just said, like the poker pros.
- [55:50]
A
Yeah.
- [55:50]
B
They probably know. I'll tell you right now, if I went to a home game and there are two things going on I wouldn't play. If they allowed phones or they had a shuffling machine, I would wonder. No. So I played it. I'll shot him at Hustle Casino Live. It's a big prominent poker stream. Yeah. No phones. You put them in a locker.
- [56:13]
A
Yep.
- [56:14]
B
And it's a one hour delay on the stream. So like if you watch. The worst is a poker. It's not live.
- [56:20]
A
Oh, right.
- [56:21]
B
There's a delay to prevent this shit. Of course you go to some game in New York that is underground and off the beaten path, you know, and what's. I think what I want to tell the public about these games that so kind of inviting is these games anybody would want to play at. Like I've always said, the funnest thing you can do is play poker. It's so fun.
- [56:46]
A
It's a great game.
- [56:46]
B
And like you're there. And especially if you're winning, it's great. And these games are particularly great because they're in a beautiful home or like apartment. You get escorted up with like a big security guy. Everybody's money's good. It's not like you walk in with 100,000, it's all sent up before you get there. You walk up, beautiful table. I mean, you can, any food you want, they'll go get you great liquor. There are women there. And I'm talking. I've seen the women that are at these games.
- [57:18]
A
They do approved.
- [57:20]
B
They're just beautiful. They're topless. You know, I'm sure if you needed a loan, someone would give it to you. Like, it's a nice, inviting type of poker. It's better than going to like a borgata or something. Yeah, you know, it's, it's great. And I think that's kind of the inviting and, and that's the sad thing I think about this stuff is like I said before, they didn't need to cheat.
- [57:42]
A
Right.
- [57:42]
B
Like these games are already big enough.
- [57:44]
A
They're basically doing like what the Astros did, except at a poker table.
- [57:48]
B
Yeah. And what, what I think makes it really hard on like the, the Chauncey's and, and people like that Damon Jones as well. And I still want to talk about Damon.
- [57:57]
A
Yeah, we're going to talk about him in a minute.
- [57:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think what sets them up and, and, and I want to again make it clear in this poker indictment, there's only One mention of Mr. Billups playing in one of these games.
- [58:07]
A
2019.
- [58:08]
B
Correct. You know, do I believe. And have I heard that he's played poker for years and he's been involved in some tough stuff himself in poker? Yes, but that is not involved in this.
- [58:20]
A
Can we pull up Chauncey's Wikipedia? I just want to see a timeline here because he's been the coach now, the Blazers, the last two, three years. I just want to make sure before I speculate something here that I know.
- [58:33]
B
I mean, one other thing that I'll point out. I mean, in and around July And June of 23, one of the games John Doe won lost approximately $1.8 million. That's a, I mean, that's an insane amount of money. You know, that's how big these games can go.
- [58:55]
A
Yeah, let's see. All right, so go all the way down, Danny. I want to go past his professional career.
- [58:59]
B
I think he's been the coach since 21.
- [59:02]
A
Right. But I want to see. I believe he was in. Keep going. It's a while. He had a long career. All right. Okay. Okay. So big three, 2017. Billups was a player in that 2020, November 2020. So a year and a half after that 2019 game, he's hired as an assistant coach to the Clippers with Toronto, and then he's named head coach of the Trailblazers less than a year later in June 2021. Wasn't he in broadcasting before that?
- [59:34]
B
Yeah, I think he did some. Yeah, I think he did.
- [59:36]
A
I think it was at espn, which is over here.
- [59:39]
B
So is Paul Pierce as well.
- [59:40]
A
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Very interesting. Over here, dangerously close to where some New York games were being played. I'm not making any claims here. I'm just pointing out some geography. That's it. This is all allegedly. But that's, that's interesting.
- [59:54]
B
And again, I'm not saying this. I was told by people that Paul Pierce has played in New York games before. But then again, like, there have been stories that, that, you know, baseball players. I'm not going to name which ones played in these poker games. Like, that's public information.
- [60:08]
A
Yeah. And it also, to be clear, it does Just playing in the game doesn't make you guilty or anything, for all we know. And actually, it's more probable than not, especially if they're not named in this indictment. A lot of them were marks. They were. They were, quote, unquote, as you said, the term was used, face cards who were brought there for two reasons. To be a mark for their money, to be taken for a ride, and also to attract other people who have deep pockets without a high profile publicly to come there and be taken for a ride, which makes a lot of sense. It's just sad that it would appear that sometimes it was literally their friends, quote, unquote, inviting them to these games to get taken.
- [60:46]
B
Yeah. And I think, you know, that's. If that truly is what happened in the Garnett type thing. I know Antonio Gates. It's been reported he played at one of the games in Miami.
- [60:54]
A
I did that early.
- [60:55]
B
I did, yeah. Yeah, I did. Pablo Torrey then put it out, which I don't. I mean, Pablo is bigger than I am. You know, it's just what it is.
- [61:02]
A
But I think I have a hashtag, though.
- [61:04]
B
Well, he doesn't. But what I think that's cool about that is it gave me kind of some confirmation that the reporting that I'm getting is good info.
- [61:11]
A
What were they saying about Gates? What was the specific. Gates that played in one?
- [61:15]
B
Yeah, Gates played it. The game in Miami, which is referenced here. I've also heard another prominent athlete, a boxer, played there and others as well.
- [61:25]
A
I think that's the rhyme with Schmoyd Schmayweather.
- [61:28]
B
No.
- [61:29]
A
Okay.
- [61:30]
B
No, it rhymes with. I won't say it. I put it out, though. They were game in the Hamptons, you know.
- [61:37]
A
Oh, yeah, I saw that.
- [61:38]
B
How many?
- [61:39]
A
June 2023, by the way, during dangerously close to free agency tampering period.
- [61:43]
B
Yeah, I mean, right. And again, like, I think people see this money. It's like, you go to a game, you lose 105k at a game. I went to hustler and lost four or five grand. It's like, that's a decent amount of money to lose in a game.
- [61:57]
A
That's.
- [61:57]
B
That's a tough night, you lose 100k. I mean, if it's. If it's over two or three games.
- [62:01]
A
Yeah.
- [62:02]
B
It's just on both accounts, it's. It's not. It didn't have to happen. And it all goes back to the theory we were talking about with the mobile. A lot of these defendants, mob wise, are young, you know, and it's. I Think some of you're starting to see some of the younger guys starting to get in a little bit deeper to some of the violence and willing to take chances.
- [62:26]
A
What do you think is causing that? The fact that they're having success now suddenly with, like, let's call it like Gen Z and Millennials and recruiting. Is it the pop culture aspect?
- [62:37]
B
Nah, maybe. I think, you know, a lot of these kids, you know, I've always said, like, if you're a family member of these people, you know, it's pretty likely that you'll get into the life. So, like, if your father's a mob guy, you know, everybody wants to do what their dad did, you know, And I think to be a mob guy. Yeah. There is a part of, like, I'm a cool guy. And then, like, let's say you live in Howard Beach, Queens, you know, being a May guy is big thing, you know? You know how small communities are, you know, I know, like in the town I live in, you know, dude, in Jersey, it's. Yeah. You know, and like those little towns like that, like, I'm in, like, I'm not some celebrity, but, like, I get recognized. It's cool, you know, like, people. I see a bar, store, whatever. Like, that's kind of how it is. But for, like, mob guys, it's a certain level of, like, they get respect.
- [63:24]
A
Yeah. It's an interesting. Like, in the Internet culture where it's not the same as it was and now everyone can whip out a camera and whatever. I never knew any of those guys, but I was in a restaurant a few different times where, yeah, it was understood that one of those guys walked in and it's like, oh, yeah, one's whipping out their phones, you know.
- [63:43]
B
No, it's very. And like I said, when you live in like, like a small, like, Staten island type place where everybody knows everybody, you know, sometimes you just get into the life because it allows you to, like, have, like, you could be a businessman. You might own a car dealership or something. It allows you, like, like a leg up and, like, negotiating and shit, you know, so it's. It's. It's a lot different now, you know, it's. You don't have to kill somebody to get in. You don't have to be a big drug trafficker to get in. Like, a lot of the businesses that these guys are involved in, not poker, obviously, but there are a lot of them are involved in legitimate businesses.
- [64:17]
A
So how do you. Now. In the old days, when it was pure, you know, for a guy to get made. Very often it was. He had to make his bones first. Yeah, that's right. So that's not by making my making your bones, it's you kill a guy. So they're not doing that now. So what's the, and this is, what are you hearing are the equivalents of them making their bones to get made?
- [64:38]
B
They're not doing it. They just.
- [64:39]
A
Crime.
- [64:40]
B
The method of money making, the method of inviting at this point, and I'm going to tell you something that's pretty wild that not a lot of people will ever bring up. There are guys in this indictment, I'm not going to say who. One of which there's a question of. Years ago he was involved in a crime. He gave statements to the police, there's paperwork on it. He mentioned other people's names. Now in that world that is no good.
- [65:11]
A
You don't think that's a cheese eating rat bastard?
- [65:13]
B
Right? You can't even. And it's as simple as if you're on a fed case and they call you down and you start making small talk with a copy of like that's no good, you know. But one of them in this case, you know, that's, that's a question. He's involved in this now and it's like, well how, like why are you dealing with him? But I talked to somebody and they told me like nowadays it's as simple as you could be a stone cold rat. But if you can make money for.
- [65:45]
A
People, they letting you around cares.
- [65:49]
B
Some people, nobody cares. Now I'm not saying every one of them guys is like that because there's, you know, there's still some people in that life that you know, are dead in the wool gangsters. But are they, are they gonna. That's wild. Yeah, and that's, that's kind of the real concern that I have is just how, how as an organization can you continue like that? Cause we've seen it just get brittle down through government scrutiny and all that sort of thing. And I think that's another thing. And we've seen that in life in general where values are gone. Now I was listening, driving up here, I was listening to WIP and they had Seth Joyner on who played for the Eagles. And he was telling this really fascinating story about how when he was coming up as a player, anybody that could provide him some sort of guidance or advice, he would listen to and he told a story about, I think it was maybe 10 or so years ago, he was an intern for the Bills. He was a Linebacker, intern. He was helping coach. And he went to the head coach, Rex Ryan. At the time, I said, and. Or one of the Ryans, and said, rex, yeah. And he said, you know, we're not getting enough time with these kids, like, where we can actually teach them something. Because nowadays the league, like you, everything's mandated, practice wise. And he asked the kids, he said, give me 15 minutes after practice. I just want to show you guys some things. He said, the first day they all came, they never came again. And he was kind of trying to explain how, like, kids today are just way different. Like, the level of just, like, value and understanding of, like, older people and like, values and ethics are just, like, kind of gone. And I relate it to kind of what we're talking about here, because the gangsters that were coming up, you know, that you saw in the news from the 80s, you know, the John Gotti's, the Chin Gigantes, those kind of people, they grew up significantly different than these younger kids today. These younger kids today didn't have to struggle for anything. They live in nice houses. They can. They can run up bookie tabs and say, fuck you. You know, my father is. That's the best thing when someone says that. You know who my father is?
- [67:55]
A
Yeah, they're.
- [67:56]
B
They're a little like, it's just a pussy move. Like, if you lose, you know, a good amount of money, I'm not saying you have to, you know, if you can't pay it back, you get on a fucking payment plan, you know, but to just like, not pay it and be like, fuck you, you know, you know, who might.
- [68:08]
A
Yeah, like, that's crazy.
- [68:10]
B
That's the kind of shit you're dealing with, with these people out here. And, you know, again, if, if. If there was an informant, I asked, one guy said, I named the guy that. That is a known cooperator. He's on YouTube. I said, if he was in your neighborhood today and he can make money, would someone work with him? He said, without a doubt. They wouldn't even give a shit. There's no, you know, because I think that's also the problem too, is there are certain guys in that life now that they don't have the ability to make money like some others. There are some guys that are rich, construction tycoons and stuff like that. There are some guys that they might be a bookie or a loan shark, and it's not as easy for them now to make money doing that, you know, It's a lot different than it once was. The neighborhood's a little bit different. So they're kind of fighting hand to mouth. There are guys that are in that life today that are on Social Security, you know, and that life doesn't stop. You still have to earn. So, like, there are times you become desperate. There was a case, it was about 10 years ago, a guy, Vincent Asaro, he was a Bonanno captain.
- [69:13]
A
Yep. I remember this guy, Vinnie.
- [69:15]
B
Yeah. Howard beach guy. And throughout his life, Vinnie Asaro always had gambling issues. Big gambler. He was actually at one point in the 50s, addicted to heroin. He beat it, but he'd always had that dependence on something. And he got older and he was still a button man made guy. He was running out of Queens, and he was always this knockout guy where he didn't have construction and stuff like that. He was out breaking heads, doing what he had to do. And late in his life, he was about 80 years old, he started. He had a younger crew, like I'm talking about 20s. In fact, John Gotti's grandson was one of them. He was indicted for this. There's a guy, Gene Borrello as well. He's on YouTube.
- [69:57]
A
Oh, yeah, I talked to him once.
- [69:59]
B
Yeah, they were doing stuff for Vinnie, and in the end, they were doing some real crazy stuff like running houses, pistol whipping people. There was one situation where Vinny Asaro was driving in Howard beach on Cross Bay Boulevard and was cut off by a motorist. And he gets pissed. He takes the license plate and goes and looks up the guy. He tells them to go light his car on fire. They go do it. And, you know, in the end, long story short, they all got arrested. They were doing bank robberies, all sorts of stuff. And some of them cooperated. And Vincent Asaro's dependence on young associates who he could not trust and didn't know much about, they were hothead revolutionaries, did what they wanted. He ended up going to prison over that. He was in prison in his 80s. And the desperation some of these people have is when you're desperate to do things, you maybe will do things that you're not normally gonna do.
- [70:58]
A
That's right.
- [71:00]
B
And I think it goes whether it's old or young, you know, some guys just think, nobody's ever gonna catch me. But look at what we just talked about with the robbery of the deck shuffling machine. It's. You're in your own car in literally one of the most surveilled cities on the planet.
- [71:16]
A
Yep.
- [71:18]
B
You're not, can't.
- [71:19]
A
You can't go anywhere in New York without being in some Facial recognition.
- [71:22]
B
And the thing is, like, you're not in, like, even in like, maybe like Staten island, where, like, there's some trees or something. Like, you're literally doing it in Midtown.
- [71:31]
A
Yeah.
- [71:31]
B
Like, and that's, I think, the, the wildness of this. But in terms of like, Damon Jones.
- [71:38]
A
We go back to some of the other stuff. Let's go to Jones and Rosier and really break that down.
- [71:42]
B
Yeah.
- [71:43]
A
So, D I, I do have to say, when I saw, when I saw this whole indictment, immediately everyone was talking about Billups. And yes, is shocking. He's a sitting head coach in the NBA and all that. The name that I went, whoa. Because it was tied to, you know, things that had to do with games was Damon Jones. And I say this lightly because people love just taking this like six levels up right away. The reason I went who though? Is because Damon Jones was a career role player who's been out of the NBA for a while now, who is LeBron James, is maybe oldest friend in the NBA and one of his closest friends. And in this indictment, in the second indictment, specifically, it mentions how Damon Jones, who is allowed full access, or at least was allowed full access to the Los Angeles Lakers locker room and everything in 2023, Damon Jones gave information on LeBron James as it pertained to an injury that then led to bets that were made. Now, does that mean LeBron James knew what Damon Jones was doing? Absolutely not. If I were a betting man, no pun intended, would I probably say that LeBron James didn't have any idea about that? Yeah, but it is not a good look for the NBA when the biggest name on the planet has a close buddy who's very intimately describing it.
- [73:03]
B
Actually, it actually goes back to I interviewed Matt Boyer, who was a bookmaker for Shah. Ohtani's interpreter.
- [73:11]
A
Can you explain that whole thing?
- [73:13]
B
Yeah. So it goes hand in hand with this because I, I, I think it's, it's kind of the same scrutiny level. Right. Because Ohtani's this world class baseball player. So is LeBron like, these guys are high level athletes in it, you know, but I asked Boyer, I said, you know, you took millions of dollars in wagers from Ippe Muzihara. Did you A, ever meet Shohei Ohtani? And B, do you think he had any idea what was going on here?
- [73:36]
A
What'd he say?
- [73:37]
B
He said he was at events and saw him across the hall or across the room. Never really had any sort of conversation with him. Maybe. Hello. That's it. He said, as far as betting, do I think he knew that the guy was a better probably. Did he bet with him? No. And he told me that, like, Muzahara would always pay on the day that Dodgers payroll was paid.
- [74:02]
A
Interesting.
- [74:03]
B
Like, it would always come at that point.
- [74:05]
A
Meaning he was very confident that Shohei.
- [74:07]
B
Ohtani, they were very good friends, these two. Like, they were. They were very close, like, to the.
- [74:12]
A
Point that Ohtani and. Yeah, yeah.
- [74:14]
B
Like, Muzahara was so close to Ohtani that he had control of his bank account. And, like, when Shohei would get paid, like, Shohei had his own accounts for, like, promotions and stuff and, like, partnerships. But, yeah, like, when he would get paid, like, he'd just get this big wire and. Look, I don't. There's nothing wrong with being a good friend, you know? You know, if you have millions of dollars and your. Your friend is in deep, you know, you'll help him. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. But in terms of, like, LeBron in this situation, I think it's a similar one, and it's less even close to that, because I think LeBron just happened to be someone that they knew would. Would. Would make money if he was out. And, you know, Damon Jones, like a scumbag, you know, gave out that info. Damon Jones was an assistant. And. And what's crazy about Damon Jones is, like, he was really, like. He would do this stuff, like, give information and then text him and be like, hey, make sure you get enough down so dame can be taken care of here.
- [75:10]
A
Crazy.
- [75:11]
B
And then they would then send him.
- [75:12]
A
Zells, like, straight from the people. Go to the DL Doc and type in Jones Portland right there.
- [75:20]
B
Yeah, it's all very Type in Jones.
- [75:22]
A
I want to read.
- [75:23]
B
And it wasn't just LeBron either. It was Anthony Davis also. He's player four in this.
- [75:28]
A
All right, hold on one sec. All right, here we go. Now type in to find next. Okay, the fraudulent wagering scheme in or about settled.
- [75:38]
B
Down a little more, I think.
- [75:40]
A
Down a little more.
- [75:40]
B
I think that. Is that it there?
- [75:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so in or about between December 22 and March 24, the defendants, Eric Ernest. There he is again. Marvis Fairley, Shane Hennin, Damon Jones, De Niro Laster, and Terry Rozier together with others.
- [75:56]
B
No, that's the actual broad one. There's actually a particular spot with Damon Jones where they go over his involvement.
- [76:01]
A
All right, go up. It's like they did the next one. Danny, go to seven. There it is. The Portland Trailblazers game. No, it's Chauncey. We already read that. One. There's one. Where? It's clear. Yeah, yeah. Orlando Magic. Nope, that's Cleveland. God damn. There were so many.
- [76:18]
B
The last ones here I was right. Wrong on the number. There we go.
- [76:21]
A
There. Okay. By virtue, why did that not come up the first time? All right. By virtue of his relationship with Player 3, the Lakers and other NBA personnel, the defendant Damon Jones had access to non public information including medical information that had not been released to the public. This is for the February 9, 2023 and January 15, 2024 games. On multiple occasions during the 2223 and 2324 NBA seasons, including as early as approximately December 2022, Jones sold or attempted to sell for profit non public information to others including to the defendants Eric Ernest and Mark Jarvis fairly and others for the purpose of causing or enabling them to place fraudulent wages based on the non public information. For example honor about February 9, 2023, the Lakers played the Milwaukee Bucks. On the morning of the February 9th game, the defendant Damon Jones sent a text message to co conspirator 9 writing get get a big bet on Milwaukee tonight before the information is out.
- [77:23]
B
Insane.
- [77:24]
A
Player three is out tonight. That's probably referring to LeBron James. Could be Anthony Davis be enough. Bet enough so D. Jones can eat two now. At the times Jones provided this non public information about Player 3 to Co Conspirator 9, Player 3 was not ruled out of the NBA's injury injury report for the February 9th game due to a lower body injury. Player 3 did not play the February 9th game which the Lakers lost on multiple occasions during the 2324 season, including in connection with the 1-15-24 game between the Lakers and Oklahoma City Thunder. Damon Jones and Eric Ernest sold or attempted to sell to the defendant Marvis fairly non public information for the purpose of causing or enabling fairly to place wages on the non public information in exchange fairly agreed to pay Jones via Earnest Player 4, an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury was one of the Lakers best players during the 2324 season. Prior to January 15 game, the defendant Damon Jones claimed to have learned from the trainer for players three and four that player four was injured and was only going to play a limited number of minutes and or his performance would likely be affected in the game because of the injury. Jones shared this non public information with Ernest who then sent a text message to fairly saying hit me asap. Got one for you dude. He got some info. Ernest then shared the public information non public information about Player 4 with fairly fairly paid Jones approximately $2500 through an intermediary via a peer to peer mobile payment platform, accompanied by the message fee. And it's only 2500. Let me just pause one sec, Jeff. I want to tell these guys to stop drilling next. Next door and then we'll get your reaction on this.
- [79:07]
B
Sounds good.
- [79:09]
A
All right, we're back. So just. I read all that information right there. Download, Mr. Nindu.
- [79:16]
B
I mean, I just. I'm always fascinated by both criminals and somewhat pretend criminals, you know, even. But even regular people like the things you go to. To lie about. And a lot of it's just like, do you know how easy it is to fit. It's like when a person's cheating on their spouse, you know, like they do such stupid things.
- [79:37]
A
Yes.
- [79:37]
B
Like any, any, like Pee wee Detective could. Could figure it out.
- [79:42]
A
That's what I'm saying. Look at this. Look at the text.
- [79:44]
B
Yeah, and it's like, you know, this is why, like, I never give. I'm not really going to give the FBI credit for much, but, like, they don't really need to be that, like, particularly good investigators to find this shit out, you know, when you have resources like that, it's like, it's literally just right there, you know?
- [80:00]
A
Yeah. Why do you think that? Because all these games happened. The poker thing goes back as far as 2019, and then the games happen in 23:24. Is this just a matter of, like, they didn't have the whistle blown for this until recently? Because I would think a case like this doesn't take that long to put together. So maybe the poker one does a little bit, but the sports betting one's pretty straightforward.
- [80:21]
B
Well, I think in terms of what, what, what I'm about to tell you, my theory is, and I say this because I have, you know, documents, and I'm actually. I wish I could have spoke to him before, but I have a connection that could actually that was involved with one of these people. There's a guy in both of these indictments named Shane Hennan.
- [80:42]
A
Okay.
- [80:43]
B
Goes by Sugar Shane.
- [80:44]
A
Sugar Shane, Yeah.
- [80:45]
B
So Shane is similar in a way to Marvis Fairley. He's a sports betting tout kind of guy, a poker player. He's very close with Amar Awadi, which is also in this indictment. Shane is a guy who in the late 2000s was selling cocaine and was arrested by the Feds and he cooperated. He was a government witness, so much to the point that the person that he flipped against filed a motion that his witness testimony should be suppressed because of some of the things in the case. So this is a government informant. It's proven number one. And this goes back to money. Why are we dealing with people like this? Crazy. Okay, so my thought is, and I think in essence it will come out and like, there's a guy in like this, the mob reporting world. I believe he's even talked about it. I think it's abundantly clear that Shane Hennon has been a long time informant and he's served these cases up on a silver platter to the feds.
- [81:47]
A
But he's listed as a defendant here, right? For now.
- [81:50]
B
For now, every. Every rat's listed as a defendant at one point.
- [81:53]
A
Yeah. When I say they didn't make it, he's not a John Doe that they made the case with and aren't listing.
- [81:58]
B
Right, right. And when I say. I also want to make one thing clear when I say rat, like I probably should say informant. It's just easier to say and it's quicker and whatever.
- [82:06]
A
It's more fun.
- [82:06]
B
I'm not a mob guy, so I shouldn't say that. But he is, for all intents and purposes a. We have paperwork that he's an informant. He testified in the case. Um, it's so simple to find. You could just google Shane Hennan cocaine and it's like the third thing on Google.
- [82:22]
A
Do it. Shane Hennan cocaine.
- [82:24]
B
Yeah. He testified in a case against a person, Franco Badini, out in western Pennsylvania.
- [82:32]
A
Cocaine and then Cocaine.
- [82:33]
B
Yeah, cocaine.
- [82:33]
A
Put cocaine on the end of that. Well, that's not him. That's a different chain. Hen.
- [82:38]
B
So there's going to be. If you go down a little bit, maybe it's not.
- [82:42]
A
Well, now it's probably.
- [82:43]
B
There's the Villanova universe.
- [82:44]
A
Oh. USA versus Franco Badini. There it is. 2013.
- [82:49]
B
Now you have to go down a little bit. I don't know the exact page, but there's a part in this, in a.
- [82:53]
A
Motion where type in Hennin to find next.
- [82:56]
B
Yes, that would be perfect. N N E N. Yep.
- [83:01]
A
Okay, so Bedini next argues that the conviction should be reversed. This is an appeal, I guess, because the district court improperly admitted testimony of government witness Shane Henan, who testified that he had bought and sold drugs with Bedini in transactions unrelated to the conspiracy involving Quran.
- [83:19]
B
Okay, so what more do we need to see?
- [83:22]
A
Yeah.
- [83:22]
B
This is a government witness. Okay. Now when you were a government witness, okay, there are multiple levels of a government witness, but there are, I mean, and anybody that knows anything about the FBI knows this. There are hundreds of thousands of informants in this country right now that are being paid to make cases against people. Shane Hennan is also a known cheater. He's involved in poker, sports betting, all that stuff. And his name's popped up in the Johnte Porter case. His name's popped up in this case and in that other sports betting, Terry Rogier Rigg thing.
- [83:56]
A
Oh, he's in that too?
- [83:57]
B
Yes, he's in that as well.
- [83:59]
A
What's his role in that?
- [84:00]
B
He benefits off the information. Like Marvis Fairley. He goes and makes wagers.
- [84:05]
A
How about the. By the way, sorry to go off the side here, but how about the fact Damon Jones, for example, is making 2500 bucks for information?
- [84:14]
B
Well, I think that could be just. I don't know if that's the only. He maybe was paid more. But yeah, I think. And I think the biggest question that in all this people will ask is, like, why were they doing this? And I think it really just probably started as they like to gamble. They probably got in it like Porter a little too deep and they said, look like, work it off another way.
- [84:36]
A
Right. You know, you know, who had.
- [84:38]
B
We're amongst friends here because all these people, we found most of these people know each other.
- [84:44]
A
Yeah.
- [84:44]
B
Like, whether it's Billups, Eric Ernest, like, all these people know each other.
- [84:47]
A
They're directly connected. But there was a very interesting interview with Michael Porter, Jontay's brother, a few months back, where he was very candid. You know, obviously he had nothing to do with what his brother was doing and all that. But of course he was asked about it because it's his brother, and he said he's like, you know, legalized gambling itself is one thing, but when you do it and then have it so close to the sport itself, where you're hand in hand, where the NBA, for example, has partnerships with all this stuff, you are inviting these kinds of things to happen. Now, his brother was a situation like the most kind of extreme. Like, he got. He was a gambler. He got in debt to people. He got in debt to dangerous people. They said, take a fall as the ninth man. We'll put some prop bets on it. And then got. But he's like, even what Michael was saying is even less than that. Like someone that gets in trouble and then can do something where they're coerced to do it. It's like you are inviting people to just, you know, around and open up a DraftKings account and then make the wrong bet sometimes, and then the entire integrity of the sport is put into question. And I got to say, I really. It was hard for me to make arguments against what he was saying as it pertains to the direct partnerships between the two.
- [85:58]
B
Well, I will say, like, in terms of that as a discussion, number one, I probably would say on a weekly basis, people DM me and say, like, if you were a novice gambler, how would you do this? Or I want to get into this, can you give me information on how to do it? And I always tell them, like, if someone asked me, would I redo everything I've done as far as would I gamble this long? That sort of thing, there's nothing good in it, really. If you're going to gamble, it can start very. It's like drugs. You can start with just doing weed. And then you're like, you know what? Coke looks pretty fun. And like, gambling for most people is very. It's something you can control. I'm sure everybody here has gambled. But then you start maybe deciding, you know what, I want to bet more, and you bet more. And then it's like, well, I've been a gambler, so maybe I'll start taking bets or something else. And it's before you know it, when you are around people. My mother used to talk to me about this when I would go to casinos and I was a kid, like, I was 18, 19 years old, and she would say something, and I never really thought about it. And then when I got older, I realized, wow, she was so right. She called casinos dens of iniquity.
- [87:12]
A
Dens of iniquity, yeah.
- [87:14]
B
And essentially just means that look at everything that goes on in a casino. Look at the people that go there. For the most part, it's for the most part, a place where very little good happens. And it's something I didn't really ever think about. But it's no secret that if you start gambling and sports betting and playing poker, you're gonna be eventually around characters. And in terms of what Michael said, I think he's 100% right. You know, before Paso was introduced, like, gambling was the backroom thing that it used to be, and it wasn't involved so heavily. But the way you stop this is number one. And what makes this really bad for these defendants in the sports case is they're gonna drop the hammer on them and say, look, you fuck around with this shit, this is what's gonna happen to you.
- [88:06]
A
Yep.
- [88:06]
B
So Porter, banned for life, gone. These people similar. It's going to be something really bad for them. And you look at someone like Billups you know, Chauncey, as you stated, you were very correct. He was one of the best players in like, he was a great player when he was with Detroit and some of those teams. I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. His career and legacy could be ruined. And they're through no fault. They're through his own fault. Throw in, if you want to eliminate this, which they'll never do, stop allowing people to bet on props. That's really.
- [88:44]
A
How would you like just in general.
- [88:46]
B
Yeah.
- [88:46]
A
Just ban all props.
- [88:48]
B
I'm not saying.
- [88:48]
A
But that would cut the legs of the industry. Right. They make a lot of money on that.
- [88:53]
B
Yeah. And that's the sad date moi that we're at here. Because these companies, they don't want to lose any money.
- [89:00]
A
Right.
- [89:01]
B
But then when this stuff happens, it's like we're not involved.
- [89:04]
A
And it's like now. But again, it's interesting and we'll find this out once they actually start presenting the case. But if the companies are also doing the, I don't know, like honorable thing or what they're supposed to do, where they are reporting this when it happens, then they would have a good argument to say, look, we're doing our job. We don't want to see any illegal gambling, so we're reporting it. And then you guys go make the case and deter people in the future.
- [89:27]
B
Well, that's the, that's the interesting thing about, like when people talk about shoes to drop. Like, because we see the feds do this a lot where they'll, they'll go gung ho on stuff and they'll try to make a, like a proclamation. If you do this, this is what's going to happen and we're going to have the dope on the table type thing, you know, which they did with Cash Patel and this whole thing. It'll be interesting to see if they continue to investigate because as I told you, if you are betting and if you're involved with the sports betting stuff and you know, some of these investigations are going on, it'll be interesting to see if something comes from those investigations where they were just sitting on it and building their case and we get another indictment of all of them in college and then we get another indictment involved in this and that. Or they just do this, set an example to a couple of people.
- [90:10]
A
Yep.
- [90:11]
B
They then start, you know, hey, you got to stop with this.
- [90:14]
A
Yep.
- [90:16]
B
I don't know. We'll see. But this is bad for these people. If they are either found guilty or they plea and they accept responsibility, you know, they're, they're fucked.
- [90:28]
A
What kind of prison time you think if they accept responsibility? Like a year or two kind of deal.
- [90:33]
B
I don't know that. I think that's also something like I keep kind of going off. But like, like this case, like outside of the violence that we talked about with some of the mob guys, most of these charges are pretty weak. I mean, as far as, like you're not going to get like years in prison for this, like a simple bookmaking charge. Like you take bets. I mean a lot of time you're not even going to jail.
- [90:56]
A
Yeah, but rigging a game, which is robbery.
- [90:59]
B
I would. And that's, and that's another question like, and I heard someone mention this, like, do gamblers come together and file a clash action lawsuit against. Because, because to be fair, if I bet on these games, I was fucking cheated.
- [91:13]
A
Yeah.
- [91:15]
B
They had information, I didn't.
- [91:16]
A
Yeah.
- [91:17]
B
So it's almost like when you have a cop that is corrupt, it taints every case.
- [91:23]
A
That's right.
- [91:24]
B
Every game that Mr. Billups or Rozier or any of these were, was involved in could have been tainted.
- [91:29]
A
Yep.
- [91:30]
B
So that's going to be interesting too to see if there's some sort of class action lawsuit against some of the, you know, whoever it's against, where gamblers try to get something out of it. Like I said to stop this. If you eliminate a props, I think that would help. But they're not going to do that. That's such a huge part of their business and their share market share. But because like I said, it's harder to fix a game like a point spread.
- [91:57]
A
What about the fact that. So like Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA is now being called before Congress to discuss this. And one of the things that he's going to get drilled about is the fact that they did, and they were very public about it, did an investigation specifically into Terry Rozier and four months ago cleared him of all wrongdoing. And you and I both know when it comes to like the NFL, NBA and these major leagues, when they have an investigation done, the people that they have doing this are like X, CIA X FBI. Like serious, serious. The highest powered, four names, same law firms in, In America. In, in America, basically. And so not to say that that guarantees they're going to get everything right, but when you publicly say we're investigating someone, go through this whole investigative process, probably throw a lot of money at it too. Of course. Throw a lot of money at it and then publicly say no, he's good only for something like this that seems in hindsight painfully obvious to come out months later. Do you think that that is the kind of thing that will lead to like an Adam Silver being forced to step down?
- [93:07]
B
Yeah, I mean he's really got some explaining to do with that because again, like you said, you should believe in the, you know, oversight of the NBA and their backroom people that are doing this stuff, the security. And this is why like when you look at someone like, you know that guy Big Dom, I was just took.
- [93:23]
A
The words out of my mouth.
- [93:24]
B
Like that's why I think he's gotten so much like love in America because he is really good at that.
- [93:31]
A
Oh, dude, I've heard some stories.
- [93:33]
B
Like he's like, he's particularly efficient at finding negative things to sway people away from a particular person. He does a very good job at security. They should learn a little something from him. I mean, and you mentioned like some of the three other organizations that maybe work with these places. I think one thing I learned in doing the mob stuff that I do and like talking and getting sources and stuff is that the FBI, they watch my show. Like I know more about the mob than they do. You know, it's like, it makes you wonder sometimes I think like, like I'm sure in. On your show on the Julian Dory show, I'm sure you've put out stuff that the FBI is like, we didn't know that.
- [94:17]
A
Like maybe they.
- [94:18]
B
If you don't think they, if you don't think the FBI watches these shows.
- [94:22]
A
I know for a fact whenever you have an ex intel guy on here, they have a deployment department where they, they, they probably don't watch it, they probably have AI to scan it.
- [94:31]
B
But they literally even local police departments, the New York City Police Department, and that's not local, but that's a huge police department. They have literally a, a group like a, A squad called the Internet squad. They basically just watch shit on the Internet and try to find crime. Like if they're doing this, you don't think they're watching you? Me, they watch this stuff. So I think my, my thought and what I'm saying there is like, I don't know, maybe the NBA's just getting the worst agents that weren't really good. And I don't know who looked into this case, but they're going to be fired, I would have to imagine because they have real egg on their face here. Because the thought is you ran this investigation, you gave us clearance. But we've also seen that like, the NFL, they do investigations into people, and it's like, well, how are you seeing this? This guy was charged with this. How did you know?
- [95:23]
A
Yeah, the one I can think of on the NFL that blew up in their face was Ray Rice, because the video wasn't out. But they did. They did. Like, they just mishandled it. And they should have punished him much more than they did, but I believe they had had access to it, and they did suspend him six games and say he was clearly guilty of this. So at least they weren't like, oh, no, nothing happened here. But it was a bad look because then people saw the video and they're like, all domestic violence is bad. That's like fucking. And that's like the worst video you could see. Yeah, I mean, it was horrific.
- [95:54]
B
But I also think, too, that. And I want to. This should be the most important thing that we say here today, because I've been on your show and I've said this before, and I want to make clear everything alleged in this indictment is alleged. And these people should be awarded their day in court. Just like, you know, I was on your show last time. I was one for one. Kohberger. I was wrong on Diddy. I was absolutely right on.
- [96:18]
A
Yeah, you were right about Diddy. You were right about another one and then wrong about Cobra. What was the other one you were right about?
- [96:25]
B
I don't remember. But. But what I'm. What I'm leaning towards is like, we need. We obviously see that these are pretty, Pretty strong charges. And I would imagine that this is a federal case, which is different from State. The feds, as we've talked about before, look at how much information is here. The case is already delivered. And that's why you see the 98% conviction rate. It's not that they convict every person. It's literally 90% of the 98% plea, and that's counted as a conviction.
- [96:56]
A
Right.
- [96:56]
B
So they're gonna come to a lot like most of these defendants, where they're 31. In the poker indictment, I would have to venture to believe that three or four will cooperate, maybe more, and the rest will plead. I don't think one of these people will go to trial.
- [97:09]
A
I think you're probably going to be right about that also, because they have. I mean, the text message data is insane, especially on. Not the poker one, but on. On the other one. That data is. So it's not circumstantial. But in that case, one plus one plus one equals three.
- [97:26]
B
But in that case, you have higher profile names with more money and they're going to state we didn't do this and we'll prove to you we didn't do it.
- [97:34]
A
We're going to see though if they have the superseding indictment where then Billups his name and then maybe, who knows, there's no evidence right now, but some other people as well. And it could, it could turn very bad. And this could be a culture shifting event because like you mentioned some of the college stuff and allegedly maybe some investigations going on into that. I believe we, we definitely talked about this. I can't remember if it was off air or on air. I think it was on air when in episode 301 when we were here together, we talked about like nil. And I told you what my theory on this has been and I can't say I'm right or wrong yet, but I'm looking a little better every day, is that you had all these old dudes at the NCAA who profited off all these kids for free forever and said fuck you. Anytime someone wanted to just, you know, go make money at an ice cream store for, you know, an appearance. And then finally the public pressure got so heavy that they had to give in. And my thought was they sat in their back office and said, okay, you want it, we'll give you all.
- [98:34]
B
And now it's open season.
- [98:35]
A
And now it's open season. And you mix it into where you have things where gambling is directly supported and you have 18 and 19 year old kids who are by definition not bright at that age with decision making. It's like, what the fuck do you.
- [98:50]
B
Think could happen in terms of the college? And I won't, I will not put names, but I've heard big names, like bigger type players that either were pro, whatever, if it comes out, it'll be bad. Now I think what this will do, these cases is it does give. Like everyone's now on notice and if you keep doing this, you're doubly as stupid. I mean, cause I mean there's a lot of scrutiny. Throw in like, like I said, I have it on pretty good authority that already people are flipping over this case. And like I said, Shane Hennig. No, no, not mobsters, like a lot of the, like the poker, sports betting people. But like Shane Hennon, I mean it would probably be a pretty strong indication that, you know, he's involved, he's done it before, he's cooperated before. And like a lot of these guys, they'll just go to them and say, look man, like, we got you here. There's a bunch of mob guys in here that will just say, you know, what are you offering? I'm not cooperating.
- [99:54]
A
Right.
- [99:54]
B
Okay, well, you can go to trial, we'll give you football numbers if you get guilty, or you can just take three years.
- [100:00]
A
Right.
- [100:01]
B
Plead, boom, boom, game over. For these mob guys, this is a small pinch. This ain't a big thing.
- [100:06]
A
Yeah. They're just annoyed by the public scrutiny because of the names.
- [100:09]
B
Yeah. And that's, that's the big thing. Like, that's what's wild about this is like if, like I said earlier, if, if it was one or the other, like if it was just billups. Right. And like there was no mob involved, I don't think it would be as big a story. It would be a big story.
- [100:22]
A
I agree. 100 but.
- [100:24]
B
And like the mob, if there was no billups involved or any NBA thing, it would just be a, like a poker.
- [100:29]
A
It would, it would still be a big story because he's a sitting coach. But the allure and sexiness for a headline of adding in the mafia, like this is the Godfather with the NBA.
- [100:42]
B
Well, and it also is bad for like some of these people. Like Joel Lonnie is listed here and I mentioned him earlier, Like Joelani two weeks ago, pled guilty in federal court. He was initially offered, offered 15 years. He declined, got a better deal. So he's gonna get. He pled. He's gonna probably get, I would say 72ish months, maybe more. It's like six years.
- [101:07]
A
Yeah.
- [101:07]
B
And Joe's, Joe's aged pretty badly over the last year or two.
- [101:11]
A
Yeah. He's gotta be in his 70s, right?
- [101:13]
B
No, I think he's like early 60s. But I mean, in aging, like he looks a lot different than he did just a year or two ago. So. But, but then he gets hit with this case and it's like, it was just literally like a two week thing. Now he's gonna have to face another case.
- [101:28]
A
Yeah.
- [101:30]
B
So it was a particularly bad week for him.
- [101:33]
A
What was the case? Because it's a great example. You were one of the few guys even that really talked about it. But this was in the last year where all the guys in Wayne, New Jersey connected to the mob were taken down. What were they charged with again?
- [101:46]
B
Yeah, so that was a, that was kind of funny because that case was almost really similar to this one.
- [101:52]
A
Was it gambling?
- [101:53]
B
It was poker games and bookmaking. And it was a state case out of New Jersey. The attorney general. And that's what's wild now, like most of the cases we see are state cases against the mob. The feds really have not made the mob a priority. It's New York state, Letitia James and like her people. And then in New Jersey they've been making the cases and yeah, it was a series of poker games that are hosted in like the northern New Jersey area. And a couple of the guys ensnared were big people. And one of the guys, George Zapoli, he's a rumored administration member. He's on the top levels of that family. So, you know, there was a sitting councilman, I believe out of one of the, one of the areas up here, maybe near Newark somewhere.
- [102:41]
A
Sounds about right.
- [102:42]
B
Yeah, but like that case nobody even heard about. Yeah, there was a case in 2024 with the Gambino crime family. Same group here, they were jammed up in a $20 million gambling ring. They were taking $22 million in wagers. They had loan sharking, they, all sorts of stuff. Did you hear about it?
- [103:03]
A
Nope. Didn't have Chauncey Billups on it.
- [103:06]
B
Exactly.
- [103:07]
A
Yeah.
- [103:07]
B
So like if I'm an old timer, I'm thinking to myself, what the fuck are you assholes? And what's crazy is Chauncey Billups in terms of these guys, none of these mob guys even knew him. Like it would just lumped in because they all like when you have an indictment a lot of the time, like you don't even know some people. Like I'm gonna guess that like, I don't know, Lee Fama probably didn't know some of these people.
- [103:33]
A
Sure, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of different, A lot of different people, a lot of different.
- [103:36]
B
But you see a lot of crossover too because like Lee Fama, alleged made guy, his uncle is a big. Or not his uncle, his brother's a big timer in that Gambino family. He's also a big time poker player. He plays poker, won tournaments. He's, he's kind of a weird noi conduit. So the, the, the thought of this, the, the rigging these games, it just didn't have to happen. And, and they got greedy and, and now they're in an international investigation with the NBA and I think going to have a lot of scrutiny. And now a group that wants to.
- [104:10]
A
Stay quiet, the mob, now they're in the press.
- [104:13]
B
Now they're in. Yeah, now they're in the press.
- [104:15]
A
Yeah. It's a bad. Look. The other thing that happened on this, that could absolutely be nothing, that was just very interesting to Me is Chauncey Billups gets arrested, he gets arraigned, and he walks out of. I think it was the courthouse after, you know, he left on his own volition. And he's wearing a clutch sports hoodie. And I'm like, of all. Of all the pieces of clothing you could have picked up that morning, you picked up the one that was like LeBron's agency, where he's got one of his friends in this case. Was that. Was that a bat signal?
- [104:53]
B
I think this is one thing about the world now that I get kind of annoyed with is that everything's a conspiracy.
- [104:59]
A
Yeah.
- [105:00]
B
And it's like, people have to start putting themselves in the position. So when that happens, it's literally still dark out.
- [105:09]
A
Okay.
- [105:10]
B
You're with your wife in bed. She probably doesn't know shit. You get that knock on the door, and, like, we go back to the dope on the table type thing. They also have something where they want to parade you out in front of everybody. Now, they didn't do this necessarily here, but I'm going to guess that Mr. Billups was arrested quite early in the morning. And that could have just happened to be the sweatshirt. If he was wearing a, I don't know, some Sean John. Not that that's popular.
- [105:36]
A
Right.
- [105:37]
B
Will we connect him to Diddy?
- [105:38]
A
Right.
- [105:39]
B
If he wore a Donald Trump hoodie, would Donald Trump be involved?
- [105:42]
A
Right.
- [105:42]
B
You know, it's. I think it's an easy thing. And those people are so famous, like the LeBron James.
- [105:47]
A
I think you're probably right.
- [105:48]
B
Like, we connect everything. Look, was it a statement? I know when I come here, like, there are certain things I'm not gonna wear, but I'm not like, you know. Cause again, I, you know, I have to think about, like, I'm gonna be on a show for three hours. I'm not gonna just sit here and wear some advertiser that's not paying me, you know, so, like, I think a little bit about it, but, like, if I was arrested by the Feds, you know, I've gotten. Not that knock on the door, but like, a constable came to my house once, and it was early in the morning, and I. I just grabbed whatever I could see first just so I could answer the door.
- [106:20]
A
Right.
- [106:20]
B
You know, so it's like, I think that's kind of what happened here. Now, if it was choreographed, maybe there's a message there. I don't know.
- [106:27]
A
Yeah, I don't think it was. You have to. I. I'm with you. I don't think it's Anything but, like, it was just kind of like little cherry on. On top of the Sunday kind of thing.
- [106:36]
B
And to. To. To piggyback off that. Gilbert arena started trolling in this. Because Gilbert.
- [106:43]
A
I didn't see it.
- [106:43]
B
Yeah. Because Gilbert was arrested about six months ago in a poker game thing also.
- [106:47]
A
Yes.
- [106:48]
B
And according to some people that I talked to, they told me that Gilbert owned the home, and he essentially rented the house out, and they were running poker games there. So Gilbert got jammed up. And Gilbert, you know, had been trolling recently. And people. I did some videos on this. You don't know how many people. Gilbert's a snitch. Gilbert's this, Gilbert's that. And it's like, I don't think these cases are totally separate. They have nothing to do with each other. But, you know, it's easy to connect the dots, you know? And, like, you know how nowadays, like, when you post stuff, like, there's always going to be someone that mentions that E P S T E I guy that got, you know, that mentioned everybody works for some shadowy government. Like, you have those people. I just think there are certain groups of people that are. Conspiracy theorists.
- [107:35]
A
Yeah. You know, my issue is that every. It's fun to talk about some of them for sure. Like, you know, when you're just sitting on a podcast and shooting the. But there is a large swath of the population that thinks that every thing ever was a conspiracy, and that feels like that is programming to me, because if I. There are real conspiracies, and there are real powerful people who do those things, and if I wanted to discredit the masses from being able to point out conspiracies, I would make sure that they. I turn them into loons. Pretending like, you know, throwing a fucking piece of meat into a pile of dogs just to watch them rip each other apart so that the real conspiracies could kind of be tucked away in the middle of all the clear bullshit. And I worry about that because I get it. You know, people lived through Covid. They saw things that were fucking insane. I totally get it. I saw the same things. I have a lot of the same thoughts on those things. But it's like, you have to still look at things on evidence. When people talk about Epstein, the evidence there is insane. Right.
- [108:41]
B
That's the problem that I have in, like. Like. And that's the challenge, I think, in even doing some of this stuff and, like, talking about cases is, like, people are programmed now to just believe what they're told.
- [108:53]
A
Yes.
- [108:54]
B
And I saw A quote once, and I think it's one of the more prophetic quotes I've ever seen. It's by this old writer and she. She. She made a quote once and stated that all you need is one group of people to brainwash a generation. That reality doesn't exist.
- [109:09]
A
Yes.
- [109:10]
B
And I think what we've seen. And there's that meme of that KGB agent talking about the warfare.
- [109:16]
A
Ideological subversion.
- [109:18]
B
Yeah. And you don't need a bullet. You just need that subversion of things. And I saw it so profoundly in that Diddy case. It is really. Look, I'm not gonna. I said that in the episode before. I'm not gonna try to tell you that Diddy is not, you know, a scumbag who beat up Cassie. We saw that.
- [109:34]
A
Yes.
- [109:35]
B
He's a bad guy for that. And he should always have to remember and be told that. But was he a person who trafficked people? No, but he was made to believe that. I know people very close to me that brought up child sex crime. There's none of that here.
- [109:52]
A
And this is where you nailed it on the case because you were looking at the indictments and what they were brain than you were looking at it once they presented in court. And you were. I can't think of anything you were wrong about. The thing is like, do I think Diddy is probably a scumbag? Definitely a scumbag for sure. Do I think that it's probable that he probably did do things like sex trafficking and stuff like that? Yes. Did they prove any of that in that case or did they even bring charges that made sense to prove something like that? No, they didn't.
- [110:21]
B
And they overcharged him him badly. And certain people lost their jobs because of it. And I think when you look into the high profile cases like this one like that, you look into Mangione prime example there as well. I think I stated this on your show.
- [110:34]
A
That was the other one. You were right about a lot of things on.
- [110:36]
B
It is. And I'm no attorney. I mean, I'm sure you talk to like, you know, attorneys.
- [110:42]
A
Yeah. I had Jesse Weber on here.
- [110:43]
B
Like even I think he'll tell you.
- [110:45]
A
Jesse Weber and you had almost the same exact takeaways.
- [110:48]
B
But it's an insane idea that the federal government in the eastern southern districts are prosecuting a lone murder charge. That never happens. The only time they charge murder is an overt act in some sort of racketeering case. So let's say the mafia whacked somebody and it's part of a Racketeering case. Racketeering, Murder in the aid of racketeering. One lone insular murder charge. Why is the feds even involved in that case? It's headlines. They wanted that, that. Remember the shot where he's handcuffed?
- [111:18]
A
Yeah. Like he was walking off the helicopter. Asylum.
- [111:20]
B
Yeah. And what I think they're not realizing is it's going against them. And I'm not going to tell you that. I don't know. I don't know if Luigi's guilty or not guilty. The evidence seems pretty bad against them. But what you're doing is you're taking groups of people that feel marginalized, whether it be younger people, poor people, people that hate insurance companies. You're marginalizing them and saying, this is a bad guy and what's the problem is he's a good looking guy, young people like him.
- [111:52]
A
Wait, what do you mean marginalized?
- [111:53]
B
You're basically like, you put it out there that he's a bad guy, he's a murderer, which he could be. But what you're in a way doing is he's then in his defense coming out and saying, I did this because something in my life happened and an insurance company fucked me and that's why I did this. And there's a certain group of people that are saying, you know what? My grandma died because of an insurance company.
- [112:19]
A
I see what you're saying.
- [112:20]
B
I've been fucked by insurance too. And there are most people in America. I don't know if you take 20 people off the street, my guess is more than half would say I'm not a big fan of the government. Right.
- [112:32]
A
Yes.
- [112:33]
B
So what we're starting to find is in this day and age there's more people that are sympathetic to a person like Luigi.
- [112:39]
A
Mandy, I see what you're saying.
- [112:40]
B
And it's like, fuck the government. Look at what they're doing to this guy. Do I think it's right to, you know, celebrate him? Look, you know, insurance companies are bad. Is that guy that was killed, he's not the scapegoat. You know what he allegedly did, he screwed up. But it almost seems like you do all that stuff, you mask yourself up and then you keep the gun. How does that make sense?
- [113:08]
A
Yeah, I mean, look, it's.
- [113:09]
B
And they paint him look as a crazed nutcase.
- [113:12]
A
It's a. And we're hopefully we're going to actually find out some truth for. I have some doubts on that. But like, it's a simple situation here. You can look at the insurance industry and say it's a disgrace. And it totally is. Completely agree. I've seen that pain on my own when I had my health problems. Now extrapolate that to someone who has fucking cancer. Like something that's actually life. Like, it's insane.
- [113:34]
B
And I told you this when I came here on 301. I think it's going to be really hard to find 12 impartial jurors because that is such a problem in America of someone. I'm sure everyone here, anyone out in the street you talk to, they've had some sort of run in with car insurance or medical insurance or whatever. And it's. That's the thing about federal cases. Like you've gotta. Or any case really, whether someone did something or not fair, you have to prove in court. Like in federal cases, there are people that I know that absolutely said to me under a shadow of a doubt, I did not do this, but I can't prove it. So I'm gonna just plead guilty and hopefully they don't give me too many times. Yeah, you know, that's the crazy thing. So.
- [114:25]
A
But Jeff, you should be able to say that the scumbaggery of the, of the insurance industry.
- [114:33]
B
I like that I use that word a lot.
- [114:35]
A
But like that's entirely the case. And also the government deserves a lot of blame in that too for that system being in a. And a hand feed, hand feeding, hand system for a long time. All that's true. You can also say that therefore there are some people in that industry who are just not good people. Whether or not this CEO is one of them or not, I'm not really sure. But like, maybe we also live in a society though where like basic standards have to be the case for this to not be Mad Max Fury Road. And when you have a dude taking a city bike down 57th street to whack a guy on security camera at 6:30am in the morning in the biggest city in the country because he runs a company that he doesn't like. The precedent of that is not good. No, but in any way you look at it.
- [115:22]
B
But what I'm trying to point out here, and I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist, we just talked about how I'm really not. But we do have to remember we see a guy doing this, we don't see his face. We don't have any idea if that's him. That's why it doesn't make sense. You did all that stuff, but you kept the gun, you kept the bag.
- [115:41]
A
Why.
- [115:43]
B
Why did you go through the method of masking up and stuff, all to just keep the gun. Like there's just things about it. But what my point is in all of bringing up this is we go back to this case because this is also out of the largest, like eastern Southern District, these are the biggest districts for the federal government. And you know, the courts in this country are in New York City. And I heard a lot of people, you know, you look at Gaya Kash Patel, I'm not going to say I like or dislike him, but he couldn't even pronounce these families names. Like, and it's like you hear some of these people talking about like the mafia was involved in Point. No, they're not. There's no defendant. The word mafia is never in that sports betting indictment.
- [116:27]
A
Not once.
- [116:28]
B
No, there is no mention of the word mob, Mafia, La Cosa Nostra, which by the way, it's Cosa Nostra. La Cosa Nostra does not make sense in the Italian language. If you read that fucking indictment. There is not one mention of the mob in it. There is no mob defendant in it. There is no associate in it, nothing. That's the point I'm trying to make here.
- [116:48]
A
So it's like that's indictment too, right?
- [116:50]
B
Yeah, Rosier. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Like, it almost seemed like. And I tweeted this, Castro doesn't even understand the case he's prosecuting.
- [117:00]
A
That wouldn't be the first.
- [117:01]
B
It's like he's just out there. And I've also heard people say, like, are these, this administration? Every administration has ax to grind with certain people. Is I heard a conspiracy theory that I think it was Stephen A said this, that this is the Trump administration getting back at the kneeling and all that kind of stuff. So he's sending his Justice Department after them now. I don't believe that, but I actually.
- [117:24]
A
Don'T believe that either.
- [117:25]
B
No, but like Stephen A's talking about, this is, this is what's going to happen in sports. And it's like, so I would just tell anybody that that sees these big cases, most of the time, these are public indictments. Go on. You don't even have to print it out. Just read through it a little bit.
- [117:41]
A
Right?
- [117:42]
B
Because like someone said to me on my show, I did the other day, it was so amazing. It's like, well, I don't know. I mean, really just read it. I did a little research on who Shane Hennan was and I found out he was a cooperator. I, I in a previous case I know about some of these defendants. So it kind of just all pieced together and, you know, I would just tell everyone to do. I think Chauncey Bills knew Mafia members? No, I don't. I don't think he ever met one.
- [118:09]
A
Makes a great story, though.
- [118:11]
B
And why let the truth get in the way?
- [118:13]
A
Right. You know, Shammy season one.
- [118:16]
B
I think it'll be interesting to see what happens next. You know, is there another indictment? Are the people involved? Is there a college one that comes out? I have to wonder, though, if these people in this cohort that weren't arrested and they're still out doing this shit.
- [118:33]
A
Yeah, this could be. And hopefully it's not just for the sake of.
- [118:37]
B
Well, let me ask you.
- [118:38]
A
It could be the tip of the iceberg.
- [118:39]
B
Let's say you were a cheater. Like you were involved in the sports betting world and you were doing this and this happened. Would you keep doing it?
- [118:45]
A
Absolutely not. Right.
- [118:47]
B
So you'd hope that it's some sort of diversion?
- [118:49]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best case scenario. Yeah. It's going to get interesting, though. I hope. I hope that this is, like I said, not the tip of the iceberg. And I hope we actually do get some more information beyond just, you know, the 23 pages here in this indictment and however many pages are in the other, because it'll be interesting to see, you know, in court, even if it doesn't go to trial. But if there's information out there that kind of clears up who was actually involved with. With who, that goes beyond what, you know, people are making with headlines right now.
- [119:21]
B
And it's just simple, really. You know, it's just simple. Looking up things like the connection between De Niro Laster, who was from Ohio, and Terry Rougier, who went to high school in Ohio. You know, a lot of these people, like I said, we're friends. And I think in terms of the worst things for this, the basketball players and coaches, they're going to have real problems because again, that whole business is about integrity and, you know, being a, you know.
- [119:50]
A
Yeah, yeah. There was a guy, you remember Faye Vincent. He was the commissioner before Bud Selig in the mlb.
- [119:57]
B
Okay. Yeah, it was a while back, so like the 90s.
- [120:00]
A
89 to 92. So Faye Vincent, my grandfather knew him and so I knew Faye Vincent when I was growing up. He was a great man. The guy wrote, you know, like a letter in my support for some stuff later in my life. Just an amazing, amazing guy. And he didn't give a. What people thought of him. Because he was not viewed as popular. Because among other things, he was the guy who kicked out Pete Rose from baseball for life. And what I will say, Faye Vincent died earlier this year, so rest in peace to him. But he. What I respected Rose, actually, what I. Yeah, they both did. That was interesting. But what I respected a lot about Faye Vincent was he looked at it truly like the integrity of the game. And the integrity of the game involved people in America being able to have a family event that they go to and watch the greatest at their sport compete in an honest way and where crime doesn't get involved and where problems that, you know, would affect that experience don't get involved. And with what I. What I never could understand when I was younger and I get it now just because, you know, I guess like you get a little wiser when you get older. But I could never understand why Faye Vincent didn't say some of the things publicly that he would say that I would hear him say behind the scenes. And I'll say one of them now. He used to tell me that he had no intention of kicking Pete Rose out for life. He went to Pete, they had him dead to rights. There was no question here. Like, they knew for a fact he had done this and it was a problem. And everyone loved Pete Rose. He was an amazing player and a fucking legend and played the game the right way, all these things. And he and Bart Giamatti. At the time it was first starting, Bart was still alive. He was Faye Vincent's close friend and the commissioner before him. He had a heart attack during this investigation and died suddenly. Paul Giamatti's father. But they went to Pete and they just said, hey, we got you. You fucked up. This is bad. You're going to be punished. But like, just tell the truth and you'll get kicked out of the game for a few years. We will rehabilitate your image, rehabilitate the game's image, and you will be able to have some dignity and eventually get into the hall of Fame and stuff. He told him to go themselves and he wouldn't admit to anything and he lied. The things he would do behind the scenes, some of that stuff, I'll let him grave with him. And it's like, this is a gut now I see what's happening now with sports and. And some of that integrity just being so blatantly affected. And that is exactly why he had the stance that he did, because this cannot fucking stand. This is horrible.
- [122:38]
B
And you can't blame him for that. And that's Why? I said you're going to have to set an example here with the punishments here, particularly in the NBA because you know, you need to, I mean, you need to get a handle on this. I mean, the John Tay Porter stuff kind of opened that all. And you know, look, Johnte was, you know, you know, a lower level player, but it doesn't matter. You have to nip it in the bud.
- [122:59]
A
That's right.
- [123:00]
B
And this was going on during that, but now you almost, I don't know if you have a clean slate. Do I think more NBA players would be picked up for this? I don't think. I truly don't believe there's a lot of professionals that are involved in this type of thing. I think if there's anyone that would be involved in some of the recent stuff as far as with the college and stuff, I think that's more of like your lower level program. That's right. And again, we saw the investigations into that.
- [123:24]
A
So yeah, I think the guys who. It's always going to be, regardless of what the, what the platform is, whether it's the actual pros in the NBA where they're making X number of money or you know, kids in college making Y number of money, the lower ends of those platforms, the people that are on the edges that are most vulnerable are the ones that could get caught up in this kind of thing.
- [123:46]
B
And the thing that they tell you about gambling, they don't really want to tell you, but they have to tell you. But it's most important. This is why anybody that listens to this, I'm sure most people that do gamble, you got to do it responsibly because eventually you could be put in a situation where, you know, you can't get out of it or you're in, you're, you're having to work for some people you don't want to be around. These people here, most of them are dead in the wool. They are scam artists, cutthroat, and that's just who they are.
- [124:18]
A
Right.
- [124:19]
B
Most people aren't like that though. But this is who you have to deal with. Just people you don't want to deal with.
- [124:24]
A
Right.
- [124:25]
B
And it is also a shame to me too because like, I do know of people that went to these games and they told me like, they're fun, you know, they, we had a great time. There was a lot of good people in them. It's just, I think they got a little too, you know, little too involved. And, and again, some of these people are really bad. Like, like Some of them are some of the biggest scammers in the country. They owe millions of dollars. They would steal from you for your last dollar. So when you gamble, sometimes you got to get involved with this. Stick to just having fun, you know, don't try to be the next, you know.
- [124:58]
A
Right.
- [124:59]
B
Stu Finer or something.
- [125:01]
A
Well, even.
- [125:02]
B
He'll tell you.
- [125:02]
A
Even Stu talked about that, man, and he will.
- [125:05]
B
He'll tell you the same you. I'm sure he went into the stories he had to deal with, you know, and Stu's a really sweet guy, man. You know, I've met him many times, like barstool. And he. He'll tell you, you know, I'm sure he would tell his own kids, stay out of this, you know, but it's so gambling. So pushed in your face now.
- [125:25]
A
Ubiquitous now. Well, you were going to be coming in here sometime soon, no matter what, and then this case drops. So it's great we could go through this whole thing and we'll see how this all develops and everything. But you know what I like about you is whenever goes down, I know I'm getting in the do take online. I know there's going to be some sort of, like, all right, everyone's saying this. What's Jeff saying? And sometimes it's in line. Other times it's like, well, we're not looking at this the right way. And one of the ones that's been driving me nuts just with the insanity of people making claims that are just sometimes changing videos with AI or, you know, speculating on things that just seem to have absolutely no proof behind it, is the whole, like, Charlie Kirk thing. You and I were going to be talking about that. So I, I think also in. In light of some of the things we're bringing up, we. We should go through that. But I just recorded with Brian Enten the other day that's going to be coming out next week. He's. I can guarantee you Brian, who's like a longtime great reporter, is going to get shit for what he said about Charlie Kirk. But he's reporting on the case, in my opinion, the right way. He's talking to sources.
- [126:28]
B
I will say on.
- [126:29]
A
He's on the ground and he's trying to play it like a newsman and not someone trying to, like, inject the theories of the universe, which is.
- [126:36]
B
I respect that a lot about Brian. I will say I do have a bit of a bone to pick with him about having people like John Aight on your platform to talk about stuff. John Aight told me this Guy was blue. I wouldn't believe him. John Aight is a awful individual.
- [126:52]
A
Can you explain to people who John Aight is?
- [126:55]
B
Yeah, Councilman Aight. That's the. That's the crazy thing about it.
- [126:58]
A
I just discussed with someone the other day. This has come up a few times over the past few years, but him coming on the show, which is interesting.
- [127:05]
B
Well, just know that everything you have that he tells you is going to be insane. I have voicemails four or five minutes long from him, you know, threatening me, calling Jeff.
- [127:13]
A
You have no idea. You understand?
- [127:15]
B
Yeah. You blow job, you know, this and that. You fat Albanian. I would, you know, r word you on the street, shit like that. He's essentially John Elliot's a guy, Albanian guy. It's funny because back in the day, he pretended he was Italian to get into that cohort. He was tertiarily. Is that a word?
- [127:37]
A
We're gonna go with it.
- [127:38]
B
He was somewhat close to Junior Gotti at one point, the son of John Gotti. They were close friends. In fact, he was. Junior was his best man at his wedding. They were pretty close. And eventually there was a big falling out because John Aloyd is a drug dealer, as John would call him a garbage pail. And he flipped and cooperated and nobody believed him. There were no real convictions that came out of his testimony. John Gotti Jr. Beat the rap on the case because nobody believes John. A light. He over inflates who he was. He says he was the chief. And that's what I get a kick out of at these news programs, the chief enforcer. What does that even mean? What is he the number one guy you pick? He didn't even know John Gotti. He's talking about on documentaries, this guy John Alight that he had principal information about the night Paul Castellano was going to be killed. He's like. He was like in his early 20s. Yeah. They're going to tell some random Albanian guy that nobody knew. Paul was going.
- [128:39]
A
Was he insinuating that he had something to do with it?
- [128:42]
B
No, he was like. He directly knew about it. He's talked about, like, in the 70s, we were running New York. What are you. You were 14, Jon. What are you talking about? He just over inflates who he is and people believe it because he looks kind of like a guy that would do that. And I'm not gonna lie, like, I've done shows on Jon. I think they're fair. Has he shot people? Has he beat people up? Yeah, at one point. Jon was a tough guy. But what. He's taken his story and he's over inflated it into saying that he was this like principal hitman for John Gotti senior. And he was the this and that and. And he's just gotten to the point now where they put him on and it's. It's laughable some of the. The comments he makes.
- [129:24]
A
I mean, so Brian talked to him, though.
- [129:27]
B
They had him on the News Nation the other night. And I just get a kick.
- [129:30]
A
He goes on a lot of stuff.
- [129:31]
B
Yeah, I get a kick out of it. You know, he was on this new Joey Molino documentary on Netflix.
- [129:36]
A
Yeah, Shrat. Dave Shiser and. And George Anastasia are supposed to come in here sometime.
- [129:41]
B
Yeah, they did a nice job. And they. Yeah, they had John on. And it's like John wasn't even like, what does he know about Philly? You know, it's just. It's weird. I. I don't want to say I have an axe grind with John, but John's been overly ridiculous to me in the time that I've done this. And I've learned with a lot of these guys, they're. They don't. They don't think I should be talking about this stuff. And maybe in a way, they're partially right, but what I've been able to do is build something.
- [130:09]
A
Why not? You're not in the world.
- [130:11]
B
Well, that's. That's the thing. They think that, what do I know about it? And I think some of them are like, why does he have more followers than me? I was in this, like, you know, and it's like, you know, I've had some guys that are. That are coppers that have told me to go myself. When I try to talk to them, they. They don't want nothing to do with me. And it's. When I started this show, I never. It was just a hobby. I just enjoyed that stuff. I watched the films. I wanted to kind of like, understand some of the things. I never envisioned that it would become something that I could make money off of and like, be on things like this. I never thought it would become that. And in fact, I didn't really ever want it to become this, but I did it and it's worked out for me in a way. And I think they've gotten to the point where they don't think I should be talking about it because they always reference, like, there are guys that aren't in the streets and they don't know nothing about this. But go back to Enten. I think he's terrific. His co burger stuff that he did was. I mean, I thought it was some of the best reporting. And there's not a lot of good reporters left.
- [131:10]
A
You know, he's one of them.
- [131:11]
B
I've raved.
- [131:12]
A
He's great.
- [131:12]
B
I've raved you about Katarina. I mean, Schultz. Yeah. I mean, Brian does a great job.
- [131:17]
A
Which by the way, shout out to Kat the amount of she got for reporting that baby trafficking story. And she was a thousand percent. Right. And I do want to say this as well, because this is some credibility.
- [131:29]
B
That's another thing they don't do.
- [131:30]
A
I would have never. And, and she and I, we've done, we had done multiple podcasts before. Before we did that one as an emergency podcast. I would have never done that podcast if she didn't have the goods. And when she and I went through like over the phone, what she had, it was irre, fucking futile. I'll put it this way. Everything that I've seen publicly since then, she already.
- [131:53]
B
And that's my. That's another kind of problem that I have with some of the news media, you know, and I'm not saying news nation, but even like some of the big, you know, CNNs places like that importance in like the Pablo Torre stuff. I know I'm not as big as Pablo Torre. Okay, I get that. But I had information and because I'm not as big an account as his, you know, like, it's. And that's one of my problems that I have about Kat. I think Kat is a terrific journalist. I think she, she is a just, it's really well done. And the fact that, like, nobody had her on to talk about it.
- [132:28]
A
Crazy.
- [132:29]
B
She went and got that information. She put her life at risk.
- [132:32]
A
Yes. She went down there after she was here.
- [132:35]
B
Yeah. And like, to me, that's really wrong that like, I get. And I know all these people that watch this show. I know you don't like my fucking haircut. I know you do not like me or whatever, but the truth of the matter is whether you like me or not, I am one of the foremost authorities right now on the mafia in this country. It's that simple. And it bothers me that like, we're putting on this salacious bullshit and it makes me wonder, do we really want the truth or do we just want to fuck around?
- [133:04]
A
People want credit. That's what they want. It's like the old ESPN thing. According to sources, that's how they would always report something when like another network had it first or another reporter.
- [133:13]
B
But then when Someone does do that, like Kat, it's. We're gonna just pretend she doesn't exist.
- [133:18]
A
Right.
- [133:18]
B
And we're gonna push it as our own story.
- [133:20]
A
Exactly.
- [133:21]
B
You know, and that's why I do really respect some of the people that are in, let's say the cartel journalist world. You know, there's a guy all source news, you know, he always credits people. You know, a lot of those guys, they understand the dangers of doing that, you know, And I never compare myself to Kat because Kat is going into Mexico and like, she's really getting into the crux of this stuff. And it's just wrong to me that on big level shit like that, like that story, she didn't necessarily get the credit for it. And it bothers me. She should have been on every news program in America.
- [133:54]
A
Absolutely. And she, you know, there's also like in all these worlds you're talking about within that particular lane, like the. The cartel lane for some people, you know, there's like certainly a jealousy factor and stuff. For like, who the is this upstart doing this? I can tell you someone who's not like that is Ed Calderon. I called her own's like, hey, who's ever got what?
- [134:15]
B
I don't understand too about that because I deal with that a lot in the mob genre. Like, I know that they may come on your show. I've tried to talk to George. Dave.
- [134:26]
A
I've never talked to George. I know Dave personally.
- [134:28]
B
I've tried to talk to all those guys. They won't talk to me. Why that is, I don't know. Maybe they don't think I should be doing it. But here's the truth. And I said this just a couple of seconds ago. I've been able to build this platform. And it helps you because on YouTube, when I do a video on John Gotti Jr. If you're doing a video on someone else connected to John Gotti Jr. Someone might see your video because of mine. That's right. I might get something out of something you did. I never understood the thought of, like, I've always tried to help people. And I realize it's hurt me because it's kind of screwed me. In the mob world genre, you try to help people because I think it's beneficial if a new person comes in.
- [135:08]
A
You know, 100, man. But in this business, unfortunately, and it goes far beyond like the mob niche, it's really all the niches, unfortunately. You know, there's a lot of people who are thinking for me to have. You have to have not and like, you know, what if that's how they want to think, hey, all the best to them. But I can only control what I control in here. And my. When I do stuff, it's always trying to help the people who come on or help them with stuff afterwards. And like, if it comes back around, great. If not great, like, you just control what you can control. And that's what I fortunate it's like that.
- [135:41]
B
And that's what I've learned. And look, I know you were talking about Charlie Kirk. I didn't mean to go off on that.
- [135:45]
A
No, we'll come back to it.
- [135:46]
B
But. But, yeah, I, I just wish, like, you know, I always know, like, in terms of what I do, I've always said, like, there are always going to be people that are never going to give me credit for anything, you know, and, you know, like I said many times, you know, whether or not you like the person that I am or what I look like or whatever, I have made a living off the Internet for over a decade.
- [136:10]
A
Yeah.
- [136:10]
B
And that when I look back on everything I've done in my life, the best thing I can ever say is I can do things like on a Monday, drive up here and speak to you because, you know, I see it out, you know, in front of my house, you know, guys working, you know, hard jobs like my father did. And I think, like, man, I'm. I'm so lucky that Monday is not Monday for me like everybody else. You know, I can find ways to make money and, and like, that's, to me what I've won in doing. And I guess there's just people that don't. That bothers them, you know, can't worry about it, man.
- [136:42]
A
It's just a drag on you. I, I see what you're saying, but, you know, it's also another thing when you're on the grid, like, I'm not doing this when you're on, on the ground reporting stories and stuff, and you're so like, you don't have a lot of your own show. Like, Cat just got her own show recently, but she didn't for a while before that. It's like when someone doesn't give you credit for it, you don't. Yeah, anything.
- [137:08]
B
It's almost, you know, like I said with, with what I was saying, like, you, you just maybe just don't have as big enough accounts to people. But what don't you agree with, with Charlie Kirk and me? I was curious. You said that I say things sometimes you don't agree with.
- [137:21]
A
No, Just in general. I didn't mean that towards Charlie Kirk. I wanted your, your. Now that we're over, we're a month and a half removed from us and.
- [137:28]
B
The Internet seems like so long ago does.
- [137:30]
A
It's crazy.
- [137:30]
B
Seems like that was months.
- [137:31]
A
But like, what, what do you think of where. Forget like what people are speculating on. I mean, bring up whatever you want, but as far as what we've been told, I thought Tyler Robinson shooting up, you know, and just didn't like him because he had political differences related to the trans issue. Like, do you think that's the truth or do you think we're not being told?
- [137:53]
B
Well, look, when it comes to this kind of stuff, you know, I'm just an onlooker. You know, I'm not a weapons expert, I'm not a military expert. You know, I remember when it happened just in some of the small like true crime stuff I've looked into and that sort of thing. It seemed like a shot that a normal person probably couldn't do, especially a really young person who probably has limited weapons training. My first thought was it's an incredibly proficient shot from a far away. And it was only one shot. If you notice that comes across to me as that is a hitman who is trained to do that. Most of the time when you see a shooting on a street, right, you just shoot randomly and you just hit whoever you hit. It takes a special kind of person, I said this in your other show, to walk up to a person and shoot him in the back of the head and walk away like nothing happened. It takes a special person to perch themselves up on a building several hundred yards away and fire a shot with that proficiency. Because when he was hit, and any person that knows anything about the human body knows that. And I've seen my fair share of carotid arteries being severed. That's what happened. He was dead as soon as it hit him, instantly. Because when you sever an artery, it's not like you can go to the doctor and they can tie it up. When that hits, hit, it's over. And then I started talking to people and I know you've talked to guys that have been in the military and high level training and things like that, and they said, well, with their weapon that he had, it's not as hard a shot as you would figure, but I'd really be interested in speaking to somebody most notably that was maybe an expert in that Las Vegas shooting with Paddock, because I remember when that happened. Like when you're that High shooting at the trajectory of the way he was. Normal people can't do things like that. And it just. I thought of that when this happened. Do I think that the kid that they brought out did this? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
- [140:03]
A
Why doesn't it make a lot of sense?
- [140:05]
B
Just because, like, I just don't feel like people like that are capable of doing things like that.
- [140:09]
A
The part to me that's above my pay grade that I'm gonna have someone in here. We're trying to find those right now to go through is the 3006 bullet. I'm just going off of what people who are experts in shooting have gone through. And it seems fairly unanimous. Please correct me in the comments if you're seeing contrary cases made about this online, but it seems fairly unanimous that, like, from sub 200 yards, a 30 or six bullet would blow someone's entire head square off. And that did not happen here. And then when you had his producer come out and basically do, like, the magic holy bullet tweet, which also, you know, the context of that tweet was. Yeah, he was basically. Andrew Colvett was saying a few weeks ago on Twitter, he's like, yeah, I actually got to talk with the surgeon who worked on Charlie at the hospital, and he said it was nothing but a miracle. I believe that's the word he used, that the bullet did not go through the other side. He said Charlie was basically built like Superman, which is like magic bullet theory all over again. And also he's saying it like it made Charlie special or whatever. And I hate to break it to you, but not to be morose here, but he. He's dead. Yeah. It didn't change, like, whether or not it went out or not. It's not some fudgeing miracle he died.
- [141:27]
B
Right. You know, and also, like, I want to. I said it when this happened. I mean, this is one of the sickest, most wrong things we've ever seen happen in this country, because it's. It's really just a war on media. And what you don't or do agree with, my whole thought just is in the terms of the kid that did it supposedly, like, it's a really also hard thing to. Once you do something like this, to then get, like, literally get up and walk out and blend in and like that. Like, most people can't do shit like that.
- [141:57]
A
Right.
- [141:57]
B
Especially a young person who really has no experience doing it. You know, it's. We're trying to sell the fact that a young person callously Walked up and killed someone the way he did. Now, I'm not going to say that. My guess is he probably had major mental problems. And that's my point in all of this, the biggest problem America faces is a mental health crisis.
- [142:20]
A
Agreed.
- [142:21]
B
It has nothing more to do with that than anything. I'll go back to a shooting that happened a couple of months ago in Minneapolis. It was a Catholic school shooting. I mean, I watched a video of the individual that did that. He put out a 15 minute video the night before where he went over every bullet, every piece of weaponry he had. I mean, this was a deranged character, man. And like, I don't want to rehash like what we've talked about on the show. We did. But like, I have a small amount of experience with that. And it's like, it's a shame that we've seen over the last 20 plus years. Not only are we not investing in that department, but we have eliminated it. Even the little town that I live in, it's a town of 60, 70,000 people. When I was a kid, we had multiple mental institutions for young people, for older people, for whatever. You know how many we have now? 1. So where are the mentally ill people? They're on the street. And then we go to a city like this, New York, let's say. And you just 10x100 exit and it's. Where are all the mentally ill people? They're in the subways. They're in. They're on the street. At what point are we going to understand that this is the problem?
- [143:42]
A
It is a problem. And even beyond the extremely obvious examples like that, when you go up next to the subway and you see someone who's screaming into the air, clearly not well, when you look at a lot of these mass shooters, in any event.
- [143:57]
B
Normal people don't walk into school.
- [143:59]
A
That's right.
- [144:00]
B
And shoot people in the head. Kids and stuff.
- [144:02]
A
But why don't we talk about the fact that almost every time they're on SSRIs and drugs like that that are completely with their head. Now, I'm not saying those drugs aren't made.
- [144:14]
B
No, I will reason, I will.
- [144:15]
A
But they're. They're handed out like jelly beans.
- [144:18]
B
I told you that when I went into the, the place that I went after a while it was just, I had to stay there and I just started observing and I saw all the people. There were 31 people in my unit. I was the only person not on medication. And I thought to myself, this medication is clearly not helping. But Andor it's probably making them worse. And like I said to you just now, like normal thinking people don't do this type of shit. I could understand you have a hardship, maybe you go through a breakdown. Let's say that's normal, that happens. But when we were younger, let's say Even the late 90s, school shooters were just like kids that were bullied.
- [145:02]
A
Well, the first real one we knew about was Columbine in 99.
- [145:05]
B
Well, what if I told you there was another one before that? It was way worse. And it's actually I was having this conversation with my mom and I'm sure there will be a person in the comments that says what I'm about to say. I'm glorifying this person, but I'm not. And I would never. But, but I, I think we need to look more into the sadness of how do kids get that broken.
- [145:26]
A
What was the school shooting before?
- [145:28]
B
There was an individual in 1999, his name was Kip Kinkle. So same year, I believe it was the late 98. I'm sorry. Okay, Kip Kinkle, right around there.
- [145:38]
A
Let's, let's plug that in. K I, P and then what is it?
- [145:41]
B
K I P, K I N, K E L. Okay. K I N, K E L. Yeah, it's fine.
- [145:51]
A
And so I'll do it.
- [145:52]
B
Yeah. And he's, he's old now. He's in his 40s. He's in prison.
- [145:55]
A
Wikipedia. 1990. Down to the right. 1998, Thurston High School shooting.
- [145:59]
B
Yeah. Kip Kinkle.
- [146:00]
A
On May 28, 1998, 15 year old freshman student Kipling Kinkle opened fire with a semi automatic rifle in the cafeteria of Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon, killing two of his classmates and wounding 25 others. He had killed his parents at the family home the previous day following his suspension pending an expulsion hearing. After he admitted to school officials that he was keeping a stolen handgun in his locker, fellow students subdued him leading to his arrest. He later characterized his action as an attempt to get others to kill him since he wanted to take his own life after killing his parents, but could not bring himself to do it.
- [146:36]
B
And I want to, I always like to give shouts to creators that, that I think do a really good job. There's a YouTuber documenting evil and he almost exclusively talks about school shootings and he goes through two three hour videos where he does this incredible research on these people. And like when you look into Kip Ginkel, he was one of those damaged people you could ever come across you hear his interrogation tapes where he's just talking about my whole, he's crying. My whole life all I hear is people telling me to do things. Like, he was an incredibly broken person. And I wonder like, how does a person like that, how do we not see this? You put him on medication, but then he has a couple of good weeks and you take him off it. You buy him, you know, like, I just wonder like, people like this. And Kip Kinkle is still in prison. Kip Kinkle's in his 40s. He did this massacre when he was what, 15? And you know, I'm not gonna tell people they should go listen to his interrogation, but it's, I don't feel bad for him, but like the way he cries and like, just, I don't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. Like, he talks about systematically killing his father and how, like, and while he's talking about, he's literally fucking sobbing, crying. This is a 15 year old child with major mental problems. We then find out that like people like Kip Kinkle, they did a study of the shooter of Sandy Hook's brain and there was a brain doctor that said it was the most damaged brain I've ever come across.
- [148:17]
A
I think I remember that.
- [148:18]
B
How are these people at these ages, this mentally ill? It's a great question, you know, and it's. I'm not, I'm not sitting here trying to like say that these aren't bad people, but most, 100% of people that do this type of stuff are mentally ill. Yeah, yeah. And it's, I guess there's maybe one or two that are just evil people. Yeah, but that's a mental illness, isn't it?
- [148:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, but I think what you're talking about is more actually documented. Completely chemically imbalanced beyond just being like an evil person. And, and yeah, I, I agree with you. And I, I think it's, I think it's horrible. I mean, look into if that's something, if that's also something that did in fact happen here with Charlie Kirk. You now have it on a level where, you know, you create a huge political problem out of it because of who was shot for free speech.
- [149:11]
B
And that's how it turns into. I mean, you look at, you look at the Nicholas Cruz, the Stoneman Douglas here.
- [149:16]
A
Yeah. I mean, he said he had weed psychosis, I think. Right.
- [149:19]
B
Well, but if you look in his background, he was a foster kid. His father was never in a picture and his mother was a doctor would Also state that he had never seen a pregnant woman that consumed more alcohol than her. And what people don't realize is alcohol is the worst thing possible for a growing child.
- [149:42]
A
Oh yeah.
- [149:43]
B
And I'm not gonna say that that's the reason, but like, we always find that most of these people come from horrifically bad backgrounds and, or that leads to major mental illness.
- [149:54]
A
Yeah.
- [149:55]
B
So I don't, I don't know what. And go back to Kirk. Like, I think all of the, you know, that person obviously had. And then all the, all this political stuff is thrown at you and you never quite know who you are. You never know quite what to believe and what not to believe, you know, and, and I think a lot of people too, there's a, there's a group of people that want to just belong to something.
- [150:16]
A
Yes.
- [150:17]
B
So like, you know, someone like this kid, he wanted to behoove the community that he thought was right. You know, there's like, I've looked into a guy and I'm really interested and fascinated by like people from America that go and become terrorists.
- [150:37]
A
Like Anwar Al Aulaqi, guys like that.
- [150:39]
B
Well, no, like, I'm talking about people that grew up in America.
- [150:41]
A
Yeah, he did.
- [150:42]
B
Did he? But he, I'm talking more or less like you like people that are, let's say I'm white. Right? Like not, not with a Muslim background.
- [150:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.
- [150:52]
B
And I, I found a guy in Russia. He was a Russian born guy, he grew up in, in, you know, near Moscow. And he actually started in neo Nazi beliefs and then randomly converts to Islam.
- [151:08]
A
That starts quite the jump right there.
- [151:10]
B
Right. And then starts believing in, you know, radical Islam, Salafist Islam. And anybody that knew him stated like, this is who this kid was his whole life. He would just go with whoever would accept him. And that's what a lot of these people it's about. Just like they're so. They don't belong anywhere.
- [151:28]
A
A lost soul looking for a home.
- [151:30]
B
And we talked about 764 last time I was hearing and thank God, you know, five, six months later, they've done some stuff about it. But you look at those types of people in society, they're not respected, they're often trampled and they don't mean anything and they have no purpose. But then they can go on the Internet and say, this is my world, that's it. 100% I belong to something. And that's why I always get a kick out of like some of the most goofy, strange people in the world are moderators of things like on the Internet, Reddit moderators. It's like you think you're this, like. And it's like you're just a fucking moderator on a Reddit group. Chill out. You feel important, but you feel important. Yeah, it's like that kid in school that was always, you know, going to the principal on you, you know, like, why are you doing this? You want to feel like someone cares about you. I think that's another problem, too. We've been told that all these groups mean something, right? Like, we have to be a part of this or, you know, what happened to just being a free thinker?
- [152:28]
A
Yes.
- [152:28]
B
And that's what I always have tried to do. You know, I bet there will be one day where someone will call me a piece of liberal and the next day you Trump supporter, scumbag, hick, you know?
- [152:41]
A
Right. And it's like, yeah, you can't. You're not someone that can be put in any kind of box, like, if people follow you on X. And I would highly recommend it, like you, for better or worse, call it like you see it on stuff. And I appreciate that because it is the easiest way to make money online these days or build a profile is just, you know, picking a set of beliefs, whether it's political or not political and running all the way.
- [153:08]
B
And I will never do that. I will never. Another thing that is a major problem with young people nowadays and, you know, the age group after me, is their willingness to throw away any ethics, morals or values they have and excuse awful behavior for views. And it's just for views.
- [153:30]
A
Yep.
- [153:31]
B
Yeah, I'm hanging with child molesters, but just views.
- [153:34]
A
Yeah.
- [153:34]
B
No, there's certain things you don't do.
- [153:37]
A
That's right.
- [153:37]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [153:38]
A
That's right.
- [153:39]
B
I'm not going to. I'm not going to be this or that for views. And what I also think is really concerning about social media is we have awarded that behavior 100% on Twitter. If you align with something and Elon Musk agrees with it, you're gonna make a ton of money. And as soon as you stop agreeing, well's cut off.
- [154:01]
A
That's all it is, man. It's just money. It's. Where does the attention flow? Attention equals money.
- [154:06]
B
And then we wonder, wherever kids went, they're trying to be the next fucking Jake Paul or this person or that person. It's just concerning, but.
- [154:15]
A
Or you could be Jeff Nadeu and be the number one trending worldwide person on three days because you get on.
- [154:21]
B
A plane and notice that that was a strictly. I've never done anything for rage bait. I've never, I've never pretended to be someone I'm not. I am who I am.
- [154:30]
A
Right.
- [154:30]
B
I like my haircut. I like the way I dress. I like the gold chain I wear.
- [154:34]
A
Good.
- [154:35]
B
I like who I am. I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not. I don't. I don't want hair like yours. I don't like it.
- [154:41]
A
Not a lot of people do.
- [154:42]
B
You don't like my. It's, it's, it's my life. That's a good thing. So what, what essentially happened was there's a rumor that had been started over a decade ago that from a. For a person that does not like me and I don't like him. We used to work together where there was some sort of, according to them, confirmation that I was on a government watch list and I was not allowed to fly. I was on the no Fly list.
- [155:05]
A
Insinuating that you were a terrorist threat.
- [155:07]
B
Correct. And I, you know, I've flown my whole life. You know, I've. I can't say I could prove it because like, who really does that? Who takes pictures? Like, hey, I'm on the airplane. Like, I don't, I don't do that. But that company barstool I had. There had been some certain points where I wasn't able to go to an event or, you know, and it all comes to fruition. Dave hears about it and Jeff doesn't show up to anything. So maybe he is on the no fly. So back in July, I mentioned I had gotten in touch with Hustler Casino and we had agreed on me going out to play in a game. And it was the middle of summer and it was a Sunday. I was gonna leave. Cause the game is on Monday. So I was leaving Sunday night from Harrisburg International, which is about a half an hour from my house. This is a smaller airport, but I could fly into Chicago and then run into la. And I like that. Cause it's real close to my house. I get to the airport about 3 o'. Clock. I was leaving at 6ish. And I get the, the text that my flight's delayed, which is fine. I'm not leaving at 7:20 is what it is. I'm sitting there and. And I had made a post because, you know, everybody knew that I was on the no Fly list. I took a video going through security.
- [156:23]
A
Yeah, you're like, you, yeah.
- [156:25]
B
All you motherfuckers. Like, I'm through security. So I can't be on the no Fly list. I then was bored. I go up to the gate, United gate, and I was just like, confirming. Because I don't fly much. I confirm, like, hey, I just want to make sure I'm on this flight. You got the right seat for me, because I'm big on that. I like 1A or 2A or 2D. What? Like, I like front row stuff. Like, you know, I like to be in the front.
- [156:48]
A
First class kind of guy. Yes.
- [156:50]
B
Or just, like, at the front of, like, comfort or whatever. And she goes, your flight was canceled half hour ago over the phone. And I said, why would I still be here then? And why would I be asking you if I'm on the flight, if I canceled it? She said, well, somebody canceled it.
- [157:12]
A
They called in a threat.
- [157:13]
B
So I called. I was working with a company. I was promoting them. They paid for the flight. And I said, did you guys cancel this? No, I said. She said, why would we cancel it? I said, I don't know. And I'm arguing with this lady. I'm like, what do I do? And she goes, well, see if any other flights in this airport will take you otherwise. She said, I've worked here for 12 years. You're not getting on this flight. And I had already put out this video, and I had like a million views at this point, like an hour. And I'm like, what do I do? Like, I'm gonna look like I'm not. I am on the no Fly list now. So I remember I called a friend of mine, Jack Mack. He didn't answer.
- [157:59]
A
He was Barstool.
- [158:00]
B
Yeah, he's a friend of mine. And no, he didn't answer. And I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna get this bag, I'm gonna go to my car, and I'm gonna drive home, and I'm gonna just turn my phone off, and I'm gonna find a way to get on a flight tomorrow morning and get out there. And I'm not gonna let anybody know where I am. I'm just gonna go dark. Because I figured if I just went dark, like, no one would know. Like, I would just pretend like I got there late and just went to sleep. And I woke up in la, you know, And I would make it there and no one would find out. So I. I went to bed. I actually wait. I went home, ate dinner, went to bed, and I was on Twitter. I didn't like anything. I didn't do anything. It was like I was a ghost. I didn't respond to texts. People facetimed me, called me. The only person I answered was my mother. I didn't even tell her. I didn't tell anybody.
- [158:52]
A
Mama Nadu wasn't in on the floor? No.
- [158:54]
B
And I remember I got up the next day at 5:30. I had set a. It was a 8:20 flight. I got up there, everything was great. I get on the flight, I get out to Chicago like 1050 flight one.
- [159:08]
A
So you already flew?
- [159:09]
B
Yes. So I got. I went from Harris to Chicago. It's like an hour and a half. I get out there and my concern, I had realized at that point was it's now light out and there's a bunch of people here. You get to an airport early, nobody's there really. But I'm like, what if somebody sees me? So I went to. I forgot my sunglasses on this flight. I went to sunglasses and bought a pair of sunglasses and just tried to like subvert people's attention. And the concerning thing about me is as you can see, I'm not exactly a blend into the crowd guy.
- [159:43]
A
You look like fucking demolition man.
- [159:44]
B
Yeah, like everybody knows me. Like people if you do see me, I'm not. I'm kind of an eccentric looking guy. But I got through everything. Nobody came up to me. I got on the flight and I'm on a united flight to LA. I'm landing there locally like 1:30 afternoon.
- [160:01]
A
Gate 68B, 70B 70B.
- [160:04]
B
I'm on the flight. I watched an episode sopranos. I got something. I was in first class that flight. So I was eating and I decided, you know what, I'm gonna get on Twitter. I'm gonna get some wifi and get on Twitter and I just get a fucking wave like yo, like they're talking about you on bar. So right now there's like 30,000 people watching.
- [160:24]
A
The whole company shut down. They had live streams like of people gathered in large rooms with multiple cameras watching to see if nadu would land.
- [160:33]
B
At lax and somebody DM me and I didn't respond. They said, yo, you're number one trending above Kobe. And I said Kobe, really? And I turned the act on and it was around the time where they had invited these two random people to like film me at the airport. And they're watching the flight simulator and everything. And around when we landed like I fully knew what was going on. And I want to make it clear to anyone that's not aware. Like when we said there was a lot of people watching, I think there was like 35,000 people watching.
- [161:05]
A
Oh yeah. The stream was nuts.
- [161:06]
B
It was insane. And I kind of knew, like, I was going to be, like, a second or third person off the flight. And I just kind of played it cool. I never contacted anybody. And that was the first time in my life I ever really kind of planned something in content. But I had thought by that point, you know what? I deserve this. These fucking assholes fuck with my flight. I had to deal with this stupid no Fly List shit forever. And what people don't realize is, like, I was in a kind of a bad spot because I didn't know if, like, an air marshal was gonna come, like, fuck with me over this. Like, put me in a room and, like, is this true? And, like, make me go under a bunch of bullshit. So I get there, and then the rest was history. And it ended up being. It's like, a huge thing.
- [161:49]
A
And, yeah, I can't play any of it. We did it with Riz Verk after we recorded, right after this all happened, and it got, like, copyright claims, so we had to take it out. But the edits were unreal. They had, like. They had, like, the Kanye music of, like, people waiting for the reaction. Like, oh, oh, oh, there he is. And then just people. Yeah, it was funny as, like, explaining this to my mom and dad for, like, a good 20 minutes. The entire story starts to end was quite an experience.
- [162:15]
B
Well, that's the thing about Barstow, and I think that's why, like, Barstow, in a way, has become so popular just through stories like that, you know, Like, I watched some of the videos on it. Like, they were really, like, viral and crazy. And it also goes back to, like, you'd have to then explain the story between me and this individual and why we don't have it.
- [162:33]
A
I'm not gonna say his name.
- [162:35]
B
I just don't. I, I, I, I. I've kind of tried to move on from that in a way, you know? You know, he.
- [162:42]
A
He.
- [162:42]
B
Rico, he's.
- [162:43]
A
Is it real? Yeah, it's real, right?
- [162:46]
B
Definitely real. And we've had running since then.
- [162:49]
A
I saw the one where you guys went up and did the content and.
- [162:52]
B
Like, dude, but that wasn't set up either.
- [162:54]
A
I can't. I can't play because, again, it's copyrighted. But, you know, you got Portnoy and Big Cat sitting there, and he comes over, and you don't flinch.
- [163:02]
B
So I'll tell you what happened.
- [163:03]
A
We.
- [163:04]
B
I was contacted by someone at Barstool, which, you know, with one of the sports books that they work with, they wanted to do A poker tournament. And I, you know, I play. And they came to me and were like, yo, would you fly up to Foxwoods and play? Yeah.
- [163:17]
A
You went Chauncey Billups?
- [163:18]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [163:19]
A
Right?
- [163:20]
B
He wasn't there. So I go to Foxwoods and I get to my room and he's like, the game starts at six. He goes, but would you. Would you come into Pick' em, the podcast they have and, you know, do some stuff? And I didn't know what would happen. I said, you know, if I go in there, it's gonna be. It's gonna be bad. And he said, I'll just come in. So I go in, I sit down, and the premise was we were gonna do like a football contest, like, pick games and stuff. And it was weird because it's like you two are sitting there and he was sitting closest to me. And I remember I sat down and just like, very friendly. I was just like, how are you? Like to him, he's like, don't fucking touch me. And he flipped the fuck out. Got him. It was crazy. And I didn't flinch because I knew he wasn't going to do.
- [164:03]
A
You did not flinch. He. I don't think he was going to do anything either. Because if you notice every time he can, you know, he's screaming like a madman in your face. Every time he came to do it, you just be like, yeah, like, he was being like. Like fake holding himself back. Like, if he wanted to hit you, he's going to hit you.
- [164:19]
B
And I knew that. But, like, one of the problems that. That has persisted with him for forever in this is. And I've asked him through emissaries to stop doing this. And he. He continues to do it and he cannot control himself. But when we did the flight thing, he made a comment about my sister. And, you know, I've said before, like, you can say whatever you want about me. I don't care. Don't bring up my family. They have nothing to do with what I do. And just like anybody, someone's family is separate.
- [164:49]
A
Yes.
- [164:49]
B
You know, and my sister and my family are good sports. Like, my sister gets a kick out of some of this stuff, you know? Cause she's just like. Just like a regular person. It's funny to be mentioned, but, like, during that casino thing, he made a comment about my father. And that. That really, really got to me because, you know, that's a hard. And I don't mention family ever.
- [165:12]
A
Right.
- [165:12]
B
I hate his guts, but I would never mention his family. They have nothing to do with this.
- [165:16]
A
Yeah, that's fucked up.
- [165:16]
B
And he did it again. And that's when it. It got to me. And I. I went to them and we had an episode the following week where I went on Zoom and I said, look, I'm done with this. I've asked this dude multiple times, stop mentioning my family. I said, here's what we'll do. Set up our Ferrati fight up. And that's how it went. He didn't want to do it, they didn't want to do it. I said, okay, then, I'm out.
- [165:38]
A
Yeah, fuck him.
- [165:38]
B
I'm done then. And, you know, he. I will say this, you know, to kind of end this. My. The two year anniversary came up. And I will say he reached out to me and said some very nice stuff to me about it. It doesn't forgive what he did. And that's kind of where we, I think, got to a decent point. But that's really what got to me. And I said, you know what? Fuck this. I'm not doing this. No more. Like, you've done this persistently for five, six years. We've been fighting for like 10. And this is a very real thing. I don't like him, he doesn't like me. But I always try to be at least fair to him, you know, and I tried to make it. Make it right. And he never wanted to do that. So.
- [166:23]
A
Oh, good for you.
- [166:24]
B
You know, that's that. And I'm. I do my own thing. And, you know, I've always tried to be sustainable on my own. I was sustainable before Barstool, I'll be sustainable after. But I will say this, and I said this before. They've done. Dave's done a lot for me. I like Dave. He was always good to me. We haven't always agreed, you know, I think that he liked me, he respected what I was able to do. Do I get them a lot of views? Yeah, I never really complained about that because it helped me too, you know.
- [166:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's mutually beneficial, but.
- [166:54]
B
But, you know, I. What's crazy is like, now there's talk that, you know, they want me to do this, the spring break thing. They're doing this like, it's like a real world type of thing.
- [167:05]
A
You wouldn't have to go to Mexico, would you?
- [167:07]
B
I don't know. I don't think. I think they're talking about Florida. But no, I told him it's in Mexico. I'm not doing it. But. But yeah, so we'll see. I mean, the whole thing with me and barstool is, it's never over.
- [167:18]
A
Yeah, you guys are like, they do.
- [167:20]
B
Their thing, I do mine.
- [167:22]
A
Yeah.
- [167:22]
B
Like, there'll be people that'll call me and like, they'll say, hey, can you come on and do a show about this? Or, you know, can you be in this? Or whatever, you know. I went down to New Jersey this summer. We did a. Yeah, you did.
- [167:32]
A
The Shore House bar.
- [167:32]
B
Still beach house for a night.
- [167:34]
A
I saw, I saw all the videos. You just at the bar, Mack, and teaching all the guys game real quick for you.
- [167:39]
B
So real quick. That's a kind of wild story that connects back to this too. So I go to the Barstow beach house. It was in Manasquan, which is, you know, central Jersey shore area. And we're out. And I don't think you can understand, like, we went out that night, it was like, awesome. We were like celebrities. Osprey had a line a block long. We just walked right in and I got to talking to a girl and we, we were talking the whole night. And at the end of the night, she says to me, she's like, we want to go to DJs. And I'm like, okay, I mean, let's go to DJs. And I told her, I said, look, I'm gonna just be honest with you. I don't, I don't think they're gonna let me in. And she says, well, why not? And explaining to her anything about barstools, like, you explain it to your family. And I said, but, you know, you see all these cameras and stuff. We're doing like a, it's like a reality type show. And she had to sign like a waiver to even be on it, everything. So we go to DJs, and I walk up. Soon as they make contact with the bar back security guy, Nope. So you're not allowed in. He said, we received a memo today. You're not allowed in here.
- [168:51]
A
Got a memo.
- [168:51]
B
And they showed me my Twitter profile, the mugshot pic, and, and he goes, you're not coming in.
- [168:58]
A
He goes, united, pal.
- [168:59]
B
He said, listen. He says, I know who you are. I think you're funny. He said, but management told me you can't come in. And I made a big scene.
- [169:08]
A
Oh, you made a scene outside DJs.
- [169:10]
B
I, I, I stopped, I said to the girl, I said, it was great meeting you. I said, have fun. I said, don't let me ruin your night. Go with your friends. And she went in.
- [169:19]
A
Gentleman Jeff.
- [169:20]
B
Yeah, I, I don't, you know, I don't want to push that life on anybody. And, like, this guy comes out. I guess he was like some general manager or something, and he's, like, made a big deal about it, and I. I basically flipped the out. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like, who. What, did someone call you and tell you I can't come in here? Who the did this? And I think it led back to him. You know, he's tight with them people there, so. Yeah, DJs.
- [169:45]
A
Good for you, Jeff.
- [169:46]
B
Yeah. That place, letting.
- [169:47]
A
Letting the girl go in and have fun. That's why.
- [169:49]
B
She was a cool girl. I liked her a lot. Lot, actually. She was cool.
- [169:52]
A
Well, I think. I think you've handled the aftermath of that whole thing with Rico well. It is funny entertainment. And you and Barstool, you know, you're like the. You're like the couple who's always broken up, but, you know, you still go back. And we're good.
- [170:07]
B
We're good where we are.
- [170:08]
A
Every now and then, we're good where.
- [170:09]
B
We are because I. I do my own thing, they do theirs.
- [170:13]
A
That's right.
- [170:13]
B
And we can come together and do stuff. Keep.
- [170:15]
A
Keep doing it, bro. I love your. I love your acting. Twitter. It's always gonna be Twitter made by. I love your ex. It's a great follow, and thanks for breaking down this whole.
- [170:23]
B
Yeah, I don't know how it is a bit complicated, but it'll be. It'll be interesting to see what comes from it.
- [170:29]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But people can go back and watch episode 301 with you. This one will be, I think, episode 350.
- [170:34]
B
And I do want to say one thing to you real quick as we end. You're terrific as well. You do a lot of great work. Some of your guests, I mean, I. I've really enjoyed.
- [170:43]
A
I appreciate that a lot.
- [170:44]
B
Checking them out.
- [170:44]
A
I appreciate that a lot. It's been fun talking with you too, as always.
- [170:47]
B
As always. Thanks, man.
- [170:48]
A
All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me.
- [170:51]
B
Peace.
- [170:52]
A
Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that, like, button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.