Julian Dorey Podcast #377 - "First Kill!"

Guest: Jesse Hamel
Date: January 27, 2026
Main Theme:
A gripping, honest exploration of modern warfare, drone technology, AI, bio-hybrids, and the philosophical and ethical dilemmas that shape national security—told through the eyes of Jesse Hamel, a 20-year Air Force veteran and founder working at the intersection of cutting-edge technology and defense.

Episode Overview

Julian Dorey sits down with Jesse Hamel—recently retired Air Force officer, former AC-130 gunship commander, and founder of the defense tech firm Victus. They dive deep into Jesse's journey from 9/11-inspired military service through the dawn of drone warfare, up to his current work fusing AI with drones. The conversation navigates everything from the morality of killing in war, to China's infiltration of US tech, to the possible nightmare scenario of unchecked AI and bio-hybrids.
Tone: Honest, reflective, sometimes darkly humorous, continually high-stakes and deeply personal.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Kill & The Ethics of Remote Warfare

Timestamp: [00:30] – [01:19], [138:33] – [150:56]

Jesse’s first combat kill was an Al Qaeda commander: “The first one I remember very distinctly was actually an Al Qaeda commander. So this is like the same organization that had directly attacked the towers close to here. You do feel it.” [00:38]
Moral preparation: Before joining, Jesse spent months in “prayer about the moral consequences of what I was going to start doing… I am now comfortable with this. I understand what I'm doing.” [143:11]
Hamel believes there is a “merciful” aspect to taking a life in defense of others, but acknowledges the “gravity” and cost of such actions—even at a distance.
PTSD & moral injury, especially among early drone operators, is real and often exacerbated by the separation between action and consequence: “A psyche can only take so much of that… you’d monitor your crews. Can they carry that weight? You gotta get them out for a bit.” [149:28]
The “distance” (both geographic and psychological) in drone warfare blurs lines: “That distance can kind of cause this dichotomy between, like, what just happened, what didn’t.” [141:34]

2. U.S. Tech Superiority, The CCP, & The AI Arms Race

Timestamp: [02:49] – [13:58], [21:21] – [33:13], [37:22] – [44:48]

AI war & China: The episode highlights the four variables to victory in the AI arms race (from Kai-Fu Lee’s “AI Superpowers”): government support, entrepreneurial talent, and others. Jesse warns we risk falling behind: “While the US was ahead in two or three… China would pass us in all. When I saw what you guys are doing...I was like, oh shit. This is the defense.” [03:13]
CCP uses U.S. freedom as a weapon: “Any area of human activity that has been monetized will be weaponized… US Telecom, every single aspect of the US telecom system, the CCP is fully penetrated.” [19:39–21:46]
Exploiting openness: The Chinese combine economic interdependence, IP theft, and embedded technological presence.
Julian references TikTok: “They use our freedom against us. TikTok in China...no TikTok after 9pm, only science videos. Here: 24/7, kids titties.” [25:32]

Quote:

“The same freedom that allowed this penetration can also be how we solve it because the American spirit uniquely does better than anybody in the history of the world.” —Jesse [27:11]

3. Guardrails: How Do We Prevent 1984?

Timestamp: [39:21] – [44:48], [61:26] – [70:38]

Transparency & protocol: The US must develop AI/tech with transparency, not black-boxed systems coordinating beyond human oversight. “It’s in our interest to develop protocols to allow the machines to coordinate...in a transparent way...That will also help us extricate malign foreign actors like the Chinese.” [38:41]
Moral risk & centralization: Both centralizing and abdicating technological power are dangerous—if the U.S. doesn’t lead, the CCP will. “We can create just tremendous human prosperity...if we do it wrong, we will enslave our kids and ourselves maybe permanently.” [39:15]
Colossal Labs, Biohybrids, Jurassic Park risk: “Any person from any field can look at that [biohybrid robot] and say that could be used for tremendous good —or tremendous evil.” [43:49]

4. AC-130 Gunship, Combat, and the Dawn of Drone Warfare

Timestamp: [08:29] – [13:58], [127:18] – [137:10]

Jesse’s story: Joined the Air Force after 9/11 (“I wrestled with things for a little bit, but by Christmas of that junior year, I was like, all right, I'm serving in some capacity.” [06:50])
Chose air power for its uniquely American “asymmetric dominance.”
AC-130 gunship: “When I think of drones and robotics, what I'm trying to enable is that same relationship...how do you get to the point where a warfighter thinks about their drone...as an extension of their own actions.” [13:58]
Early drone integration: “You’re flying around, you look over, there's nobody in that plane...It was weird right at first.” [128:11]
The first joint attacks with drones were “pretty wild… they got the 15 killstreak, or something like that from Call of Duty.” [137:35]

5. Decision-Making Under Fire, the Reality of Choices in War and Business

Timestamp: [87:44] – [103:23]

Decisions are never clean: “There’s never a decision where it’s perfectly clear, I fully understand, and there’s zero risk... Maturity is understanding they're always like that.” [88:20]
Cites Special Operations practice: always list “the risk of inaction” in every plan—not just risks of action. [91:03]
Entrepreneurial crossover: “Founding a company is kind of a personal development journey disguised as a business...slaying your daily dragon.” [102:22]
Stress and resilience: “How do you develop resiliency against stress is way more interesting than how do you manage it and try to reduce it.” [98:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Any area of human activity that has been monetized will be weaponized.”
—Jesse Hamel [19:54]
“Transparency, you know, sunlight will kill the disinfectant. That’s the disinfectant, right? It’ll kill the malign things.”
—Jesse Hamel [153:39]
“Do you want to live in a world where the CCP develops that tech for woolly mammoths?... We don't want that world.”
—Jesse Hamel [50:42]
“What can be monetized will be weaponized.”
—Jesse Hamel [44:48]
“Purity of heart is to will one thing.”
—Jesse Hamel paraphrasing Kierkegaard [157:15]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro to Biohybrids/AI Dangers: [01:12] – [01:19]
“Bio hybrid robot made with living brain and muscle cells...”
China’s Infiltration of US Tech: [21:21] – [22:51]
Moral Dilemma of Remote Warfare: [143:11] – [150:56]
First Drone-Gunship Integrated Strike: [137:07] – [137:35]
Drones & The 1984 Surveillance Trap: [61:26] – [70:38]
Decision-making and ‘Risk of Inaction’: [87:44] – [93:04]
Purpose, Identity, and Building the Future Self: [114:48] – [119:56]
‘Purity of heart is to will one thing’ (Kierkegaard): [157:10] – [159:52]

Flow & Structure

Candid camaraderie and dark humor—Julian’s “I do think you guys have a hell of a voice” [01:24], book and movie references (Top Gun, Lord of the Rings, Jordan clips).
Technical, then philosophical: Rapid fire between war stories (“You’re flying, you look over, there’s nobody in that plane...”), national security analysis (“US telecom is fully penetrated by the CCP...”), then ethical deep-dives (Kierkegaard, the purity of single-mindedness, moral injury).
Alternates between personal anecdotes and global implications, always grounding the technology in its lived human, moral, and political realities.

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

Modern warfare is being transformed by AI, drones, and bio-hybrids, with enormous stakes for national sovereignty and personal morality.
China is not just an economic competitor, but a fully embedded adversary in America’s technology infrastructure, using our openness as a weapon—unless we can out-innovate them.
Drones and autonomous systems present both the greatest opportunity for security and the greatest threat for abuse. Guardrails must be built with urgent, values-driven leadership.
Those who have held the power to kill—even through machines—wrestle with the deepest moral consequences, emphasize the need for leadership with clarity, honesty, and character.
At every level, from battlefield to boardroom, decision-making demands evaluating both action and inaction, risk and consequence, and being willing to confront the hard truth, not just learn endlessly around it.

For a deeper look at combat, technology, and morality in the 21st century—told by one of America’s modern warriors and thinkers—this episode is essential listening.

Julian Dorey Podcast #377 - "First Kill!"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Kill & The Ethics of Remote Warfare

Timestamp: [00:30] – [01:19], [138:33] – [150:56]

Jesse’s first combat kill was an Al Qaeda commander: “The first one I remember very distinctly was actually an Al Qaeda commander. So this is like the same organization that had directly attacked the towers close to here. You do feel it.” [00:38]
Moral preparation: Before joining, Jesse spent months in “prayer about the moral consequences of what I was going to start doing… I am now comfortable with this. I understand what I'm doing.” [143:11]
Hamel believes there is a “merciful” aspect to taking a life in defense of others, but acknowledges the “gravity” and cost of such actions—even at a distance.
PTSD & moral injury, especially among early drone operators, is real and often exacerbated by the separation between action and consequence: “A psyche can only take so much of that… you’d monitor your crews. Can they carry that weight? You gotta get them out for a bit.” [149:28]
The “distance” (both geographic and psychological) in drone warfare blurs lines: “That distance can kind of cause this dichotomy between, like, what just happened, what didn’t.” [141:34]

2. U.S. Tech Superiority, The CCP, & The AI Arms Race

Timestamp: [02:49] – [13:58], [21:21] – [33:13], [37:22] – [44:48]

AI war & China: The episode highlights the four variables to victory in the AI arms race (from Kai-Fu Lee’s “AI Superpowers”): government support, entrepreneurial talent, and others. Jesse warns we risk falling behind: “While the US was ahead in two or three… China would pass us in all. When I saw what you guys are doing...I was like, oh shit. This is the defense.” [03:13]
CCP uses U.S. freedom as a weapon: “Any area of human activity that has been monetized will be weaponized… US Telecom, every single aspect of the US telecom system, the CCP is fully penetrated.” [19:39–21:46]
Exploiting openness: The Chinese combine economic interdependence, IP theft, and embedded technological presence.
Julian references TikTok: “They use our freedom against us. TikTok in China...no TikTok after 9pm, only science videos. Here: 24/7, kids titties.” [25:32]

Quote:

“The same freedom that allowed this penetration can also be how we solve it because the American spirit uniquely does better than anybody in the history of the world.” —Jesse [27:11]

3. Guardrails: How Do We Prevent 1984?

Timestamp: [39:21] – [44:48], [61:26] – [70:38]

Transparency & protocol: The US must develop AI/tech with transparency, not black-boxed systems coordinating beyond human oversight. “It’s in our interest to develop protocols to allow the machines to coordinate...in a transparent way...That will also help us extricate malign foreign actors like the Chinese.” [38:41]
Moral risk & centralization: Both centralizing and abdicating technological power are dangerous—if the U.S. doesn’t lead, the CCP will. “We can create just tremendous human prosperity...if we do it wrong, we will enslave our kids and ourselves maybe permanently.” [39:15]
Colossal Labs, Biohybrids, Jurassic Park risk: “Any person from any field can look at that [biohybrid robot] and say that could be used for tremendous good —or tremendous evil.” [43:49]

4. AC-130 Gunship, Combat, and the Dawn of Drone Warfare

Timestamp: [08:29] – [13:58], [127:18] – [137:10]

Jesse’s story: Joined the Air Force after 9/11 (“I wrestled with things for a little bit, but by Christmas of that junior year, I was like, all right, I'm serving in some capacity.” [06:50])
Chose air power for its uniquely American “asymmetric dominance.”
AC-130 gunship: “When I think of drones and robotics, what I'm trying to enable is that same relationship...how do you get to the point where a warfighter thinks about their drone...as an extension of their own actions.” [13:58]
Early drone integration: “You’re flying around, you look over, there's nobody in that plane...It was weird right at first.” [128:11]
The first joint attacks with drones were “pretty wild… they got the 15 killstreak, or something like that from Call of Duty.” [137:35]

5. Decision-Making Under Fire, the Reality of Choices in War and Business

Timestamp: [87:44] – [103:23]

Decisions are never clean: “There’s never a decision where it’s perfectly clear, I fully understand, and there’s zero risk... Maturity is understanding they're always like that.” [88:20]
Cites Special Operations practice: always list “the risk of inaction” in every plan—not just risks of action. [91:03]
Entrepreneurial crossover: “Founding a company is kind of a personal development journey disguised as a business...slaying your daily dragon.” [102:22]
Stress and resilience: “How do you develop resiliency against stress is way more interesting than how do you manage it and try to reduce it.” [98:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Any area of human activity that has been monetized will be weaponized.”
—Jesse Hamel [19:54]
“Transparency, you know, sunlight will kill the disinfectant. That’s the disinfectant, right? It’ll kill the malign things.”
—Jesse Hamel [153:39]
“Do you want to live in a world where the CCP develops that tech for woolly mammoths?... We don't want that world.”
—Jesse Hamel [50:42]
“What can be monetized will be weaponized.”
—Jesse Hamel [44:48]
“Purity of heart is to will one thing.”
—Jesse Hamel paraphrasing Kierkegaard [157:15]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro to Biohybrids/AI Dangers: [01:12] – [01:19]
“Bio hybrid robot made with living brain and muscle cells...”
China’s Infiltration of US Tech: [21:21] – [22:51]
Moral Dilemma of Remote Warfare: [143:11] – [150:56]
First Drone-Gunship Integrated Strike: [137:07] – [137:35]
Drones & The 1984 Surveillance Trap: [61:26] – [70:38]
Decision-making and ‘Risk of Inaction’: [87:44] – [93:04]
Purpose, Identity, and Building the Future Self: [114:48] – [119:56]
‘Purity of heart is to will one thing’ (Kierkegaard): [157:10] – [159:52]

Flow & Structure

Candid camaraderie and dark humor—Julian’s “I do think you guys have a hell of a voice” [01:24], book and movie references (Top Gun, Lord of the Rings, Jordan clips).
Technical, then philosophical: Rapid fire between war stories (“You’re flying, you look over, there’s nobody in that plane...”), national security analysis (“US telecom is fully penetrated by the CCP...”), then ethical deep-dives (Kierkegaard, the purity of single-mindedness, moral injury).
Alternates between personal anecdotes and global implications, always grounding the technology in its lived human, moral, and political realities.

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

Modern warfare is being transformed by AI, drones, and bio-hybrids, with enormous stakes for national sovereignty and personal morality.
China is not just an economic competitor, but a fully embedded adversary in America’s technology infrastructure, using our openness as a weapon—unless we can out-innovate them.
Drones and autonomous systems present both the greatest opportunity for security and the greatest threat for abuse. Guardrails must be built with urgent, values-driven leadership.
Those who have held the power to kill—even through machines—wrestle with the deepest moral consequences, emphasize the need for leadership with clarity, honesty, and character.
At every level, from battlefield to boardroom, decision-making demands evaluating both action and inaction, risk and consequence, and being willing to confront the hard truth, not just learn endlessly around it.

For a deeper look at combat, technology, and morality in the 21st century—told by one of America’s modern warriors and thinkers—this episode is essential listening.

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#377 - "First Kill!" - Palantir, Nuclear War, Bio-Hybrids & AC-130 Bombing | Jesse Hamel

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Summary

Julian Dorey Podcast #377 - "First Kill!"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Kill & The Ethics of Remote Warfare

2. U.S. Tech Superiority, The CCP, & The AI Arms Race

3. Guardrails: How Do We Prevent 1984?

4. AC-130 Gunship, Combat, and the Dawn of Drone Warfare

5. Decision-Making Under Fire, the Reality of Choices in War and Business

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Flow & Structure

Takeaways for Non-Listeners

Summary

Julian Dorey Podcast #377 - "First Kill!"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Kill & The Ethics of Remote Warfare

2. U.S. Tech Superiority, The CCP, & The AI Arms Race

3. Guardrails: How Do We Prevent 1984?

4. AC-130 Gunship, Combat, and the Dawn of Drone Warfare

5. Decision-Making Under Fire, the Reality of Choices in War and Business

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Flow & Structure

Takeaways for Non-Listeners