#388 - “Epstein LIES!” - CIA John Kiriakou ERUPTS on Satanic Elite, Mossad & Most STUNNING Files

Summary

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Julian Dorey Podcast Ep. #388

“Epstein LIES!” – CIA John Kiriakou ERUPTS on Satanic Elite, Mossad & Most STUNNING Files

Release Date: February 23, 2026
Host: Julian Dorey
Guest: John Kiriakou (Former CIA, whistleblower, author, activist)

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Episode Overview

In this urgent, far-ranging episode, Julian brings back ex-CIA agent and whistleblower John Kiriakou to break down the explosive, newly released Epstein files, and what they reveal about intelligence agency involvement, elite networks, and ongoing coverups. It’s a candid, sometimes jaw-dropping discussion linking Epstein not just to Mossad but to multi-government intelligence brokering, arms dealing, media manipulation, and a “supra-government” elite system above presidents and prime ministers. Kiriakou and Dorey connect dots between global finance, arms trade, blackmail, and US, Israeli, British, and Saudi operations, all while wrestling with the systemic rot and lack of accountability. The episode also touches on looming events in Iran, media censorship, investigative journalism’s demise, and the existential threat to western monarchies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Would You Fake Epstein’s Death? (00:00-00:44, 119:18-121:37)

• Julian opens with a hypothetical: “If you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead... how would you do it?”
• John: “[Take] out the body—body double or silicone... in full view of everybody... Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree.” (00:15)
• They re-examine the official story—body removed, quick cremation, convenient media coverage—acknowledging how easily this could happen in a corrupt, incompetent prison system.

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2. Kiriakou’s Wild Year and CIA-to-Hollywood Transition (04:19-08:40)

• John starred in a movie directed by Tyrell Ventura (Jesse Ventura's son), playing a CIA security chief, cast specifically for his real CIA experience.
• John: “I would be a terrible actor... But Ty said, ‘You acted every day at the CIA.’” (05:06)
• John is now a SAG member, voted in Actor Awards, and reflects on the strangeness of his life arc.

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3. The Epstein Files: Unprecedented Revelations

(09:06–18:05, 21:24–38:58, 51:58–61:58, 130:59-147:14)

Emails, Codewords, and the Unmasking of Elite Networks

• Newly released Epstein emails show thousands of interactions between Epstein and powerful figures (Katherine Rummler, ex-Obama WH counsel: 11,500 emails; physicist Lawrence Krauss: 7,500).
• Revealed codewords (e.g., “pizza,” “grape soda,” “jerky”) appear in chilling, casual correspondence about illegal and immoral acts.
• Julian: “You meme to everyone like the worst sadistic kind... George Carlin always said, 'It's a big club, and you ain't in it.' ...It's a little club, and you ain't in it.” (11:45)
• Kiriakou expands: many in power not only knew, but acted as facilitators or protectors—"nothing is as it seems; behind every revelation there’s more."
• John: “I’m positive [Epstein] was an Israeli agent… likely not exclusive to Israel... a broker for multiple intelligence services.” (90:03, 92:41)
• Both men express shock and disgust at the normalization and protection of predators at the highest levels.

Monarchies, Royals & a Systemic Crisis

• UK monarchy is deeply implicated; British support for monarchy crashed from 80% to 50% (“existential risk”), with tangential threats to other European monarchies.
• Norwegian royals, Prince Andrew, and figures like Mandelson (with damning photo evidence) are directly connected.
• John: “This is enough to bring down the British government... This Keir Starmer may not last as long as Liz Truss’s head of cabbage.” (35:42)

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4. Congressional and DOJ Coverups — Everyone’s In On It

(14:26–17:00, 41:12–44:01, 131:46–134:05)

• John: Every administration, red and blue, since Clinton, covered up the scandal, with key tranches of evidence never released.
• Julian: “This is a systemic problem... Republicans, Democrats, everyone has had a chance to put this out. It’s the most massive pedophilia—& more—scandal ever.”
• Pam Bondi is personally refusing to comply with an overwhelming congressional order to unseal all files—“It has to be coming from above her.”
• Key point: statute of limitations on child sex crimes is only 5 years in the US, shielding most elite offenders.

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5. Epstein’s Origins: Arms Dealing, Iran-Contra, and Intelligence Ties

(98:19–134:05)

Deep Dives:

• Epstein's early ties to Adnan Khashoggi, Douglas Lease, and J. Stanley Pottinger placed him in elite arms dealing and money laundering operations—especially the Anglo-Saudi Al Yamama deal and Iran Contra.
• John: “The way his career moved as quickly as it did... tells me he connected with an official body early on—especially Mossad. They’re very good at spotting talent.” (105:07)
• Epstein wasn’t just an agent; more likely, he was a multiply-connected intelligence dealer, “an intelligence peddler but a much more sophisticated one.”
• Kiriakou breaks down how intelligence compartmentalization enabled Epstein to avoid being flagged—he had protection “at the White House, way back then [early 1980s].”
• Julian: “It’s like the mob... nobody can admit they know who this guy is, because then you have to say how you know him, and then everyone gets burned.” (133:53)

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6. Intelligence, Supragovernments, and the “Big Club”

(13:34–14:26, 47:51–56:25, 54:53–61:12, 150:24–152:19, 153:10–155:28)

• Echoing Tucker Carlson, both discuss the existence of a “supra-government” above presidents—a “fixer class” (Epstein, Khashoggi) serving a tier of bankers and arms traders who truly run global affairs.
• Davos, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg meetings are described not as conspiracy theories, but as real, influential forums.
• John: “David Rockefeller was the secret back channel to Saddam Hussein... There’s a lot I didn’t see at the time.” (56:57–59:08)
• Insight: major US defense contracts span all 435 congressional districts, structurally binding politicians to military-industrial interests.
• They connect arms deals to population control, global economics, and social manipulation.

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7. Manipulating Journalism & “Operation Mockingbird 2.0”

(65:17–77:23, 77:49–81:22)

• FOIA wizard Jason Leopold finds multiple journalists (e.g., Ken Dilanian) pre-cleared their stories about intelligence matters directly with the CIA.
• Access journalism, blacklisting, and subtle threats keep even top reporters in line.
• Investigative journalism is dying: “If you don’t have your self-respect and independence, what do you have?” (74:43, John)
• John: “They don’t need [Operation] Mockingbird anymore. They just threaten you and tell you you’re not invited to the Christmas party.” (73:14)
• Outlets no longer fund real investigations, while string-pullers dominate narratives, especially in digital media algorithms.

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8. Blackmail & Compromat: The Heart of the Operation

(84:31–89:49, 86:10)

• Julian: “Do you see any scenario where Jeffrey Epstein, as a spy—which he definitely was a spy—was not prioritizing blackmail?”
• John: “He had to have been... What’s the point if not to collect kompromat on everybody?”
• Kiriakou and Dorey discuss the importance of Epstein’s psychological manipulation skills, with a victim describing how Epstein “coached” her like a coach watches football tape—“bill Belichick and Tom Brady watching predators to see what works.”
• The operation was inherently offensive blackmail, not simply defensive or paranoid self-protection.

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9. Ghislaine Maxwell, Mossad, and Security Installations

(173:28–175:42)

• Israeli government (specifically, a security chief for ex-PM Ehud Barak) personally oversaw security installations in Epstein’s New York building post-2015.
• Extensive Israeli (party & state) connections with Maxwell, Epstein, secret “shadow commissions” post-9/11, and other power brokers surfaced in emails.
• John: “Jeffrey doesn't mind holes in the walls... we learned that in spades on the island house. Wow, man.”

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10. Can the Whole Thing “Blow Up”? And Why Not?

(166:27–169:54, 176:03–178:14)

• Dorey: “Do you just blow it all up?” Kiriakou: “We’re gonna have to... Demand the release of all remaining documents... and rely on people like you to make sense of them.”
• John: “There are no good guys in this story... Everyone with power gets away with it.”
• Despite overwhelming revelations, both question if the public or official response will ever match the scale of the crime.

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Noteworthy Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Files and the “Little Club”:
  “We didn’t even realize this little club existed within the big club.” — John Kiriakou (11:51)
• On Intelligence Agency Collusion:
  “At the CIA, Israel was ranked as a critical threat for counterintelligence... The Israelis are not our friends; they actively recruit Americans to spy on Israel’s behalf.” — Kiriakou (178:28)
• On Scope of Governmental Involvement:
  “Every administration, red and blue, has covered this up.” — Julian (43:02)
• On Arms Deals and the Pentagon:
  “Of the Pentagon’s $1 trillion budget, a third goes to weapons systems... more than half goes to contracts in every district. It structurally embeds the defense budget into politics.” — Kiriakou (50:37–53:50)
• On His First Encounter with Elite Influence:
  “David Rockefeller is the secret back channel to Saddam Hussein.” — Recalls his bafflement at why Rockefeller showed up in Bahrain (59:08)
• On Epstein’s Operation:
  “If you weren’t running blackmail, what was the point… it wasn’t defensive, it wasn’t just a kernel held for protection. It was 24/7 intelligence collection, offensive and systematic.” — John (89:23)
• On the Complicity and Future:
  “We have so many examples where covert actions were just taken for... imperialism... or just because we felt like overthrowing.” — Kiriakou (63:12)
• On Worldview Rewrite:
  “I’m intellectually exhausted now. I’m very upset by all this... what happened to our country?” — John (180:39–180:41)

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More Key Segments & Timestamps

• (09:06–13:34): Epstein Files — Pizzagate, codewords, shifting from “conspiracy” to evidence.
• (17:00–30:18): Emails, revelations of direct elite participation, revival of public memory (e.g., Clinton, royals).
• (34:44–40:37): Monarchies—existential threat, cascading crisis across Europe.
• (44:43–47:25): Pentagon, Congress, military-industrial complex—structural corruption.
• (77:23–86:10): Journalism, access, FOIA, and a complicit media culture.
• (121:49–124:33): Kiriakou’s personal reckoning with intelligence failures, covert operations, and the cost.
• (173:13–175:17): Mossad, Israeli government, Ghislaine Maxwell, security connections.
• (180:53–186:19): Breaking Iran news—inside scoop on anticipated attack, war as a distraction.

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Flow and Tone of the Conversation

• Frank, Candid, and Irreverent: The podcast is remarkably unfiltered. Both Julian and John curse frankly, laugh bleakly, and react in real time to the enormity of the revelations.
• Mixing Dark Humor With Outrage: Comic asides (e.g., “I was gonna buy Lincoln’s last turd” [01:10]) and bleak jokes are interwoven with genuine despair and anger.
• Disillusioned but Relentless: John Kiriakou frequently expresses exhaustion and frustration but continues to follow the evidence, questioning even his own prior certainties.
• Forensic and Deeply Informed: The duo’s conversation is grounded in both personal experience (Kiriakou’s time at CIA) and granular knowledge of the case files, intelligence craft, and international events.
• Desperately Looking for Justice: There’s a recurring theme of disappointment—neither expects powerful figures to face consequences, but both insist on the necessity of truth telling, transparency, and archives.

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Conclusion & Call to Action

• Julian: “What do we do? Do you just blow it all up?”
• John: “We’re gonna have to... Demand ALL the documents. Rely on honest investigators—like you—to make sense of them. Otherwise, they get away with it all.”

The episode ends with breaking news on a looming US strike on Iran, possibly to distract from the growing scandal—or as part of a well-known “wag the dog” pattern. Both men reflect on how the Epstein revelations, if unchecked, confirm just how captured and unaccountable global elites and their networks have become.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In:

You’ll leave this episode with your assumptions shattered about the depth and complexity of Epstein’s world—a world that’s less about one “lone predator” and more about the hidden mechanisms of global power, intelligence, blackmail, and how an “untouchable” elite system perpetuates itself while remaining, until now, largely beyond the law.

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[Give it a thought. Get back to me.] — Julian Dorey, (186:57)

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Transcript

[A]

If you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing, to wherever he's gonna go to get facial surgery and live out his life, how would you do it?

[B]

Oh, you would take out the body. Whether it's a body double or, you know, made out of silicone or whatever, take it out in full view of everybody. That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

[A]

They did do that.

[B]

Hello, I'm John Kiriakou, and I'm here to fuck shit up.

[A]

You're like the most famous guy on the Internet now. I don't recognize your normal voice. It's killing me.

[B]

I know, right? I don't know how this happened. It just happened. Like literally overnight. It just happened.

[A]

Can we pull up the latest one that we put up? Thief. Let's get John's live reaction. So when this was happening, when you and I did episodes 278 and 279 together, which was a year ago, I remember this was probably like an hour, 20 some minutes into the first episode. And I remember this whole Lincoln thing coming up out of nowhere. My God, this is cool. He's a Lincoln collector. And then you look at me with a dead straight face and you're like, yeah, I was trying to buy Lincoln's last turd. And I, at the time, we had Alessi in the studio. And I'm like turning to Alessi like, this. This motherfucker series. And then you're like, oh, yeah, I was trying to buy it. So, yeah, when this all started to break, like Danny on. On our editing team and I were looking at stuff, I'm like, you gotta make the Lincoln shit store. So he did. Let's run it. Can people see this, Steve?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, let's roll.

[B]

Show museum. And it was a museum of circus

[A]

freak shows from the 1800s. Stuff that had been in these circus sideshows. They had the shadow box hanging on

[B]

the wall and there's turd, and it

[A]

says, it's Abraham Lincoln's final turd. Come on.

[B]

So it says on the card, it

[A]

said when he arrived at Ford's theater, he had to drop a deuce. And so before he got seated, he went to the men's room and he dropped a deuce in the chamber pot. And then he went back to watch the play. Then he got shot. Somebody had the presence of mind, and they say presence of mind for the sickness.

[B]

Well, there are a lot of Lincoln collectors.

[A]

I see an article in the Washington Post about six months later saying it's going out of business and they're gonna auction everything off.

[B]

So I told my wife, I'm buying that.

[A]

She's like, oh, no, you're not. I said, oh, yes, I am. I'm buying that turd. My wife and I actually had a strong disagreement about this. We go to the auction and I.

[B]

I top out at twelve hundred bucks.

[A]

It ends up going for five grand. So the guy that ended up buying it sends it to some company for a DNA sample.

[B]

And what they found was it had

[A]

like microscopic bits of a Necco wafer in it. But Necco wafers weren't invented until 1880. It wasn't a shit.

[B]

It wasn't his. Some random guy's turd that somebody paid 5,000 doll. That is one of my better stories.

[A]

Oh, my God. Are you familiar with Black Twitter at all?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, you're not. You need to familiarize yourself. They love you. Really? Yo, this John Crazy, yo, There's my. Some words. I'm not allowed to say this out here. Just saying straight cat. But it's real. And I'm. I'm dying reading this.

[B]

And I'm telling you, it happened literally overnight. Yeah. And I don't understand why.

[A]

I know you don't. I mean, you're like, for people that don't know you personally, which is pretty much everyone out there listening, like, you've lived this amazing life and done all these incredible things or whatever, but it's always funny to talk to you, like, about content because you're like, oh, was that good? I'm like, yeah, John, like 15 million views on something's really good. And you're like, okay. And you leave and we're just like, you know what? You're happy as a clam. We'll keep it that way.

[B]

And, you know, some crazy stuff has happened since I saw you last. I've got this great friend, Tyrell Ventura. Jesse Ventura's son, Tai is one of the sweetest men I've ever. I've ever met. He's just a really good hearted, kind guy.

[A]

What's up, guys? Three quick things. Number one, if you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It is a huge, huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of these episodes, you can join via the link in my description or my pin comment. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community, a Chance to edit clips from the show and make money. You can join via the Discord link in my description below.

[B]

And he calls me one night in July and. And he says he wrote a movie and ties. Ty's a Hollywood guy. He's. He's done a lot in. In film. He wrote this movie. I was like, oh, that's cool. Good for you. And he said, well, you know, it's going to be. This is the story. I was like, yeah, that actually sounds like a compelling storyline. And I'm thinking, why is he telling me this? I'm happy for him. He's going to write this movie. And he said, you're gonna be in my movie. And I said, oh, thank you. No, no, no, I'm not interested. I said, listen, I'll be stiff and unconvincing. I would be a terrible actor. I've never acted before, and I would wreck your movie. And he said, well, I thought of that. And I thought you've been. You acted every day of your career when you were with the CIA. I said, well, that's actually. That's actually true. And he said, so I wrote the part specifically for you, and you're gonna be in the movie. So I went to Mexico for the whole month of October.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And we filmed this movie. And I'm very proud to say that I am now a member of the Screen Actors Guild.

[A]

Oh, you're in SAG now. That's not suspicious at all. I'm a CIA guy in sag.

[B]

I'm also now a professional Hollywood actor.

[A]

Did you feel like you were good at it when you were doing it? I feel like you're a natural.

[B]

No, I listen everybody around me, everybody else in the film was incredible. Like, I would stand there just off camera, watching them in awe of their ability to do this over and over and over again. Seeing we would do each scene 8, 10, 12 times. And they were so good. And they've all been in stuff. They've all been in movies and TV series and all kinds of stuff. And then the star of the movie is a really great guy, very generous with his time and his advice. Jeff Fahey. I really hit it off with him. He would stand just off camera and whisper directions to me. And it made me, like, I guess, believable enough that I didn't make an ass of myself in this movie. So we watched the first cut a couple of Saturdays ago, and I was like, this movie's actually good. Like, I would go to the theater to watch it.

[A]

What's it about?

[B]

It's about the richest guy in the world who's a cross between Elon Musk and. And Erik Prince. And he has a son who has become his daughter. And so they're estranged, and he hasn't told anybody, but he's dying of liver cancer. And so he invites the. The country's preeminent lefty podcaster and the country's preeminent righty podcaster to come, and he's going to tell his story for the first time, and then they sort of are competing with one another how they're going to shape the story. One falls apart, the other one gets it done. And then I'm the director of the guy's security detail, former CIA ops officer.

[A]

Oh, right on cue. There you go. But you had to play a bit of a tough guy, right?

[B]

Yeah, I had to play an asshole. The guy was an asshole and a liar.

[A]

You couldn't play that. I was in a dumpster all night.

[B]

No, that's another one that's taking the rounds. Do I smell like I've been with a woman?

[A]

And then the best is they switch it back and your voice like, we later got divorced. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm gonna start cross. Oh, well, that's very good. I'm glad you're in SAG now. You said I just add it to the resume.

[B]

Right. Last night, I cast my votes for the SAG Awards now. Now called the Actor Awards.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

I took it very seriously. They, they, they send everybody. They're like, you know, 50 million people that are in the SAG, so it's not like, you know, this was anything necessarily special. It was for me. So they send you the list of nominees. They send you links to every one of the movies and the TV series. I watched every last one of them, and I cast educated votes.

[A]

Good for you, John. Someone's taking it seriously. They need your type in there.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But we are here, obviously, as like, kind of an emergency episode because of what's going on. And I know you have some stuff that you heard, whispers in the wind, if you will, about Iran. So we will get to that a little bit later. But I definitely want to start on the story of my lifetime, I think, is what I would say at this point. You and I have talked about it in the past on episodes with Epstein, and you know, how they've slowly rolled out this case and people found out information over the years, and now there's some files coming out and there's a lot of issues there. But. But I gotta tell you man, reading through these emails.

[B]

Yeah, Sickening.

[A]

There are so many things that in the past people might have presented to me. Random people with, let's say, no evidence that I was like, come on.

[B]

Yeah, I've done the same thing.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's been my response. Like, come on, you have evidence now

[A]

when you read it, are you like me? Where you're like, well, I can't rule this out anymore.

[B]

I will say I've got a great friend, Ben Swan, terrific investigative journalist who was laser focused on Pizzagate. And Pizzagate always sounded so insane to me that I was like, come on, man, what are you doing? You're going to kill your career with this Pizzagate thing. First of all, the pizza place doesn't even have a basement where they're keeping kids, right? And this clown from North Carolina drives up with an AR15 or whatever it was, AK47 and shoots the place up. And then he can't find a basement where the kids. Kids are being kept as sex slaves. And he, you know, gives himself up. And then we see these emails last week about, you know, take a Viagra and then we'll go get some pizza and grape soda. Ha.

[A]

It's, it's nuts.

[B]

I can't believe it. In some of these cases.

[A]

And the, you know, the, the, the code word usage. The, the other thing, John, that's so sinister is it's almost like it was a giant. You know, you meme to everyone like the worst sadistic kind because you have a guy emailing from account. From an account called Jee Vacation. Like you can't even make this up. That's like what your grandpa would make on an auto AOL account back in 1999 when he wanted to be hit to make an email. You know what I mean? And they talk so flippantly. Like, forget the most sadistic stuff where they're talking about children and the awful things they're doing to them like that. But they talk so flippantly about the world. And it had me rethinking what George Carlin once said. I always quote it. Everyone always quotes it. It's a big club and you're not in it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I think we have to fix the quote. It's a little club and you're not in it.

[B]

We didn't even realize this little club existed within the big club. I think that is fair. Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

Isn't that the truth? I think he's onto something. You know, Tucker's another guy who has been very deliberate about all this. He was never one to jump on rumor. He was always one of the guys who demanded to see evidence before he took a position. And I think even he is shocked by what has been released. And you know, there are a million other little strings that haven't been pulled yet. Don't forget, there are still reportedly between 3 and 3.3 million documents that have not yet been released that Pam Bondi has said won't be released. She's going to defy a bill passed 419 to 1 in the House and 99 to nothing in the Senate and signed by the president. And she's just going to say, no, I'm not going to do what the bill commands me to do and release these documents.

[A]

Do you think she's saying that or that's coming from above her.

[B]

It has to be coming from above her. It has to be. One of these little strings that I've been trying to focus on involves Katherine Remler, who was the Obama administration's White House counsel.

[A]

11,500 emails.

[B]

First of all, what the fuck, right? Like, does she do nothing all day long as the White House counsel other than chit chat with Jeffrey Epstein, number one. Number two, there's one. There's one email that she sent him saying, John Brennan, the CIA director gave me the CIA's highest honor today. Pretty cool, huh? Or pretty great, huh? And then she tries repeatedly to set up a lunch between Jeffrey Epstein and John Brennan. Why? To what end? And there's a bigger question here too, and that is what kind of judgment did these people exercise? This woman is supposed to be the President's personal legal advisor, his personal attorney, and this is what she's doing. And I have a theory that I'm confident about. Why would she be so close to John Brennan, of all people? Because every Tuesday morning at 7 o', clock, John Brennan chaired the kill list meeting. And we know that the kill list committee was chock full of attorneys, White House, nsc, CIA, doj, just to make sure that, yeah, you can legally go out and just kill these people this week and then we'll meet up again on Tuesday and come up with another list of people to kill. She was on the kill list committee. I'm confident of it. So she's either murdering people or she's chit chatting with Jeffrey Epstein again. What kind of judgment do these people have? And then where did she go? She became the general counsel at Goldman Sachs.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

At least they had the presence of mind to say, you got to go, that you can't survive this.

[A]

I will say this. They should have done that a few

[B]

ages ago when it was, when it was first released that she was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein. You're absolutely right.

[A]

That's right. And like, you know, there's just some. There's revelations of people that had stronger relationships to the point that, you know, they were personally in his life. I want to come back to Rummel in a minute because that's a big story. But like Lawrence Krause, I've said this a million times, sat in that chair two years ago, got connected to him through someone else that was on the podcast. He's a physicist. And then when he was coming in here, we knew he had known Jeffrey Epstein. I asked him about it on the podcast. He was a nice enough guy. He's got 7,500 emails with Jeffrey Epstein. So like, I'd love to be like, you know, and, and usually like I have a policy of not really talking against like people who have been in here and stuff like that. It's just like a part of the job. Let other people do that, but journalistically, like you have to do this. And I, I'm not planning on reaching out to Lawrence to ask him about this or whatever, but when you are coordinating with someone that much over all these years and we found out he was trying to get Jeffrey Epstein on the Joe rogan experience in 2017. God, you know, it's like, you know, bro, at that point, you know, and he said in the past, he was quoted as saying, like, you know, well, I only ever saw Jeffrey around young women who were 21 or 22. So I assumed that I believed him. Took him at his word when he

[B]

said funny because that's exactly what Peter Mendelsohn said.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until the picture was released of him in his underwear with a 16 year old, not realizing that he was being photographed.

[A]

That's right. And it's got, it's, it's gotta be said like when you see, there's other people that are in the emails where I don't really see anything and it's only a couple emails and they don't really seem to like, like know him well. And I'm like, all right, it's weird, but. All right. But to bring it back to Kathy now, 11,500. Very interesting that you put two and two together with the kill list, which leads to my question. And again, some of this has to be theorizing. John and I.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

We weren't there. So we don't know. Right?

[B]

We don't know.

[A]

But do you think that Kathy, before we get to the origins of Jeffrey Epstein and go through all that, do you think it was that Kathy is a rising star attorney becoming kind of like fixer? Especially once she got into the Obama orbit when he gets into office, do you think someone like that was just very clearly a target for Jeffrey and he then actually possibly befriended her and then because of the connections he had, she trusted him and with information related to things like, I don't know, perhaps a kill list.

[B]

I think that's likely because if you're hearing from people like Alan Dershowitz, what a great guy Jeffrey Epstein is. Right.

[A]

And you know, I know that's your best friend. Yeah. You love him.

[B]

Yeah, we, yeah, we really love each other. Again, what kind of judgment do these people have? If you're like the most important constitutional attorney in the world, then maybe you should keep your pants on. Probably in the presence of a 16 year old girl. Your defense that you kept your underwear on, that's not a defense. It's not a defense. You know, I was on the Piers Morgan show with him, I don't know, six, eight months ago, and Piers called it smackdown afterwards because I think I rattled him. I rattled Dershowitz. He. He said the most ridiculous thing. I said that I was confident that Epstein was a. Was a Mossad access agent. And I believe that I've been proven correct. I believe that I underestimated his contact with intelligence services. We could talk about that. But I'm positive that he was an Israeli agent of some sort. And Dershowitz just jumped all over me. And then he shouted, see, this is what he does. He interrupts to try to knock you off, off balance. But he shouted the most ridiculous thing and I laughed at him. He said that he was Epstein's attorney, and if Epstein was a spy for the Mossad, he could have gone to the White House and he could have gotten him a lighter sentence. And it's like I would have hung him from a tree.

[A]

No, John.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Like you think going to the White House, admitting that your client is spying for a foreign power on you.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That's going to get him leniency.

[A]

I saw we can't play it because it actually has like copyrighted music in the background. But I was just looking when right before you got here, that clip popped up in my feed of him saying that. And it was actually. I don't know if you noticed this because you were just on zoom, like going back and forth, but we can watch it afterwards and see everything. Everything. You could tell as he was getting through it. Once he had said CIA or Mossad and then said, I could have gone straight to the white, he went like, crap. Oh, whoops.

[B]

Cats out of the bag.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And you just see Bassett musef.

[B]

Like he was good.

[A]

Anyone else get that? You know what I mean? It was like, whoa. Yeah, but that's a good. That's the thing, John. And I've talked about this a bunch recently. It's like, you're Greek, American, right? You're born. You're born here.

[B]

Born here.

[A]

You're a dual citizen.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you're someone who served the American government.

[B]

Oh, I only became a dual citizen in 20. That's right. 10.

[A]

That's right. Okay, so you're even closer generationally. I'm like fourth generation or something like that. I'm half Italian, half Irish. No disrespect to the Irish side. I love my Irish fans out there. You know, I never identify with the culture. The food kind of sucks. I go out of my way to not celebrate St. Patrick's Day. It kind of is what it is. It's not a part of my family cultural history.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so, like, if something happened with Ireland tomorrow, I'd be like, oh, that's really sad. But my life would go on. On the other hand, the Italian side, that's my family culture on both sides that I have lived in the country. I have family in the country. I love that place. It's amazing. If tomorrow, though, as an American born Italian, Irish American, if the American government came to me and said, listen, Jules, some shit went down last night and it turns out we are at war with Italy, will you, before the question comes out, like, will you fight for us or them? I have on my American fatigues in AK47 and I'm taking the nearest plane trainer, automobile to get the fuck over to Italy and mow down whatever Mario and Luigi's get in my way in the wrong uniform, I'm going to hate it. I'm going to hate it, but I'm going to do it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And there's a lot of people whose names ended in a vowel in 1943, whose parents didn't even speak English, who did the same thing.

[B]

Exactly that.

[A]

And there are many American Jews who would say the same thing about America. I take issue. It's not about the race. I take issue with anyone like an Alan Dershowitz who you know goddamn well, American born dude who's made his whole life here. You know goddamn well if you ask him that question, you get a blank stare and he changed the subject and you know what the answer is.

[B]

Or even just accuse you of being an anti Semit.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't trust him. I don't like him, frankly. I don't know anybody that trusts him. He's just not the kind of guy that instills trust.

[A]

Yeah. And the thing about him that I have to give him is that ever since the Epstein story, like first came out, he is one of the only people, if maybe the only guy like from that orbit who will get in front of whatever camera is rolling to discuss the case directly. I will give him that. I Will also give him that as an attorney. He did represent the guy. He has a job to do there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whether we like it or not.

[B]

But David Boyce was on the other. He and I were both on Pierce the other day, and he made an important point, because David Boyce is one of the most important criminal defense attorneys in America. And he said that Dershowitz was more than just his attorney. He was his friend. And that's fine. You can be friends with. With your clients, even if your clients are scumbags. But he was Epstein's publicist, and that's not fine. He was, for all intents and purposes. Yeah.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Did. Did you happen to see Les Wexner's testimony?

[A]

I'm glad you brought that up, John.

[B]

Did you catch the hot mic moment?

[A]

If you say more than five words, I'm gonna fucking kill you. Yes, I did catch that. I loved it. How about the fucking. The react.

[B]

Yeah. Huh? Yeah. Boy, Les Wexner. I would have so many questions for Les Wexner. There aren't enough hours in the day. Right.

[A]

What would. What would be the first thing you'd ask him?

[B]

What would possess you to hire a seventh grade substitute math teacher who had never finished college to be tax advisor when you are the richest man in the state of Ohio? There wasn't one person in the entire United States of America for you to hire to advise you on your taxes than a seventh grade substitute math teacher who didn't finish college unless you were also having sex with him.

[A]

Oh, I didn't see that curveball coming at the end. That kind of just hit me.

[B]

Which. Which he has consistently denied he has consent.

[A]

You see his reaction that with his face, when they did bring that up in a separate question, I might add, they're like, did you ever. First of all, he's like, leaning forward like this the whole time, and they're like, did you ever. Did you ever have sexual relations with Jeffrey Epstein?

[B]

He's like, no.

[A]

I was like, I need a body language expert on that one. I don't know.

[B]

And you know what he did? According to Vanity Fair, as. As soon as people started asking that question, he ran out and got married. The guy was, you know, well into adulthood and had never been married. And then as soon as people started saying, I wonder if. If Wes, Les Wexner's gay, he ran out and got married.

[A]

See, this is what's strange about that. In particular, I can't speak for Les Wexner at all. But on the other side of the equation, because these Files, to be clear, seem to show it's girls, boys, children,

[B]

just in general, anything went.

[A]

But on the other side of the equation, in all the testimony, witnesses, people who were around Jeffrey Epstein coming forward. I have never heard something where it involved a male period. It was always young women.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Or little girls. Right. So for him to be. This would be a, you know, a gay relationship or encounter like that and that, I mean, I guess it's totally fine. I guess nothing's off the table. But it's a. That's always been like a little bit of a red herring for me. Like I wonder if it's like less is doing stuff with people that Jeffrey's providing and that.

[B]

That could very well have.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As well.

[A]

So you, you asked that question though about why you'd hire a. Yeah. Math teacher.

[B]

Why. And you give him so much money that he ends up power of attorney and. And power of attorney. He ends up with the widest townhouse in all of Manhattan.

[A]

You ever stood outside that place?

[B]

I went once. Yeah. It's gigantic. Yeah.

[A]

I give the demented tour of New York City.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Coming in town.

[B]

That's cool. That would be fun.

[A]

We stand there. But yeah, it's a big place.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

You ever see look at the Google Maps and see how far it goes back?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

This is like half the size.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's nuts. We'll get to letting it. But this was an answer related to the first half of your question, John. So let's let this play right here. Def. Why Les Wexner hire Jeffrey Epstein personal work for the Rothschild family in France? Well, specifically I talked to Elie de Rothschild and so I mentioned that earlier. So he represented their whole family. So there had been a whole bunch of people. Most of them I never would have met, but I knew la. He would say like I'm providing financial advice to the founders of Google. I'm financial. Providing financial advice to Jeff Bezos. To be clear. That was. That was later. That's good. That was later when he did that. That wasn't from that answer right there. But it seemed to me when you see the foot, there's a full four minute version of that as well that what Wexner was saying, whether it's true or not is certainly a question. But what he was saying is that he was really hitting at the point that like because he personally talked to some of the members of the Rothschilds family and they confirmed at the time, this allegedly being in the mid to late 80s, something like that.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

That they were, in fact, working with Jeffrey on whatever basis they were, he decided to do it.

[B]

Bonafides. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So first of all, do you believe that or you think there's more there?

[B]

Oh, there's got to be more there. So far in this entire story, nothing has been as it seemed. Nothing. There's been more behind all of it, behind every revelation. And if only half of it's been released and we're flipping out over what we've seen so far, what's the other half include, you know? And why wasn't it released? Is it even worse than what we've seen? Is it just a continuation of what we've seen? I will say that there are a lot of very important people out there who have questions that need to be answered. I hate that the statute of limitations is a problem here.

[A]

I hate that very much. Where is the statute a problem? Specifically?

[B]

A problem in that this stuff can't be prosecuted.

[A]

Which stuff?

[B]

Like child sex crimes.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. There aren't going to be any charges against anybody. They're going to be civil suits, but nobody's going to be charged with a crime. If you look at. Even in the uk, The UK has been very straightforward about all this. They have Mandelson now and former Prince Andrew. Andrew was charged with. With passing a document to Epstein that had to do with British business and trade negotiations.

[A]

Al Yamama.

[B]

Yeah, the Al Yamama deal. That's exactly right. And then Mandelson is rumored to have given him something from the Defense Ministry, which could be a violation of the State Secret, the Official Secrets Act. But none of this stuff has to do with sex.

[A]

We'll come back to the Alumama deal because that has to deal with, like, the origins here. I just. There is so much on the bone that, like, it's so hard to stay on one thing. So I apologize to people if we jump around a lot, but, like, John knows everything about this case, so that'll happen a little bit. But let's stay with Wexner for a minute. So you'd ask him about the source of wealth, then they have a relationship for at least 20 years. He claims that he cut him off in 2007. I don't know that I believe that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What else would you ask him? What would be the burning, or to quote Howard Lutnick, the cutting questions?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I would ask questions that I know he wouldn't answer truthfully or honestly. Like, I would want rundowns of every time he went to that island. There's a reason why literally every room, including the bathrooms, were wired for audio and video. Nobody does that.

[A]

He said he only went there once on his boat, with his family. On the record.

[B]

Right. I hope that's true. I don't believe him.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Not if you've been a. Not just a friend, but. But a close friend, a best friend for more than two decades. You went to the guy's house one time. Come on.

[A]

It's like Deef was saying with Howard Letnick's answer at Congress, where he's like, I went to the island, it was only for an hour, and I left with my wife, my children, and our nannies.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because people fly all the way to the Caribbean for one hour.

[A]

He's like, he couldn't say. Deep's like, you couldn't say you were there for the afternoon.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I mean, it's a fucking island.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. And that was after Lutnick denied that they were close friends.

[A]

Dutch at that one.

[B]

Look at Sarah Ferguson now. She's in a whole heap of trouble.

[A]

That's Prince Andrew's ex wife. Well, we knew for a long time that Jeffrey was like, floating her money because they were in debt up to their eyeballs. Right.

[B]

I have a good friend who represented her as one of her attorneys. And he said she was always broken. Always broke. I don't know where the money went. How can you be a member of the British royal family and be broke? I have no idea.

[A]

That whole thing's sketchy. I mean, specifically targeting that too.

[B]

And then after he's convicted in 2007 and she says publicly that she's cut him off, then she emails him, I'm so sorry, Jeffrey, I love you. You're the big brother I never had. And then she takes her daughters down there to visit him and then lies about it. Like, what kind of hold did he have on people? I don't understand this.

[A]

Do you think I. I don't think this for a second, but I have to ask this just so you can at least respond. Do you think some of these people might have actually believed him at his word, that he's like, yeah, I accidentally ordered a 17 year old. I thought. I thought she was 21. Do you think it's even possible that they would have believed.

[B]

I think it's possible that they wanted to believe it and then allowed themselves to believe it deep down? No. Unless you're deaf, dumb, and blind, Yep. I can't imagine. No. Plus, you know, it's not like people don't talk. I mean, even Trump said back in the day, Jeffrey likes him young. Too young for my taste.

[A]

Yeah, A lot of people said there's, there's even emails. I'm trying to remember who it was with. Maybe it was actually with Mandelson, but don't quote me on that. Where they're going back and forth and Jeffrey says, take a picture of, of you and, and send me a picture of you and the little girl or something like that. And the guy goes like, haha, yeah, sure.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. I interviewed a member of the British Parliament a couple days ago for my, my own podcast. And, and he said, this is enough to bring down the British government. Yeah, yeah, like judgment. What kind of judgment do you people have? And look, Mandelson has always been a scumbag, right? Everybody knew he was a crook. He had been credibly accused of, you know, embezzlement and extortion. He's just a crook. They're out there in politics. And so when word surfaced that he was close to Jeffrey Epstein and he had already had to be removed as Business Minister and from another couple of senior positions in the British Labour Party, he swore to Keir Starmer, now the Prime Minister of the uk, he swore to him that he barely knew Epstein. They had met once or twice, there was nothing to these rumors. And then the emails are released, including the photo of him with a 16 year old girl standing in his underwear. They're both looking at a laptop, so it's clear he does not realize he's being photographed. And then he had to admit that. Okay, all right, you caught me. So he's resigned from the House of Lords, he's been thrown out of the Labour Party. But people aren't just angry at Mandelson. And also he was recalled as the British Ambassador to the United States. He's no longer the ambassador. They're not angry just at Mandelson, they're angry at the Prime Minister because what kind of judgment do you have when everybody in the country knew this guy was a scumbag, but because he looked you in the eye and he smiled at you and said, oh, no, no, Prime Minister, it's not true. None of it's true. And then your reaction is, okay, I'm going to make you Ambassador to the United States of America. What goes through their minds? So this Keir Starmer may not last as long as Liz Truss's head of cabbage. This is bad.

[A]

Can already see the meme on that one. Yeah. So you're also into directly what Roana said as well. And one thing I like about Massie and Ro Khanna is their delivery is the same, with the exception of. I've never seen Massie get worked up like he did at Pam Bondi and I.

[B]

He rarely gets worked up.

[A]

I was happy.

[B]

But he genuinely dislikes Pam.

[A]

Oh, yeah, she's a liar. But Rohana will just like these two guys. Massey and Ronna will just like deliver this line about the Epstein files. It's like, wait, I'm sorry, what the fuck did you just say? And it's like, yeah. So we found. And there it is. All right, have a good one. They walk out. So Ro Khanna comes out maybe like two, three weeks ago, and he had just walked out of the doj where he got to see some of the stuff that they haven't released. And he was like, yeah. So the files show that this poses an existential risk for the entire monarchy system in the UK and then therefore across Europe. Because they're all fucking related.

[B]

Yes. Literally.

[A]

Which, you know, John, I. Obviously, we kind of fought a war about that here, like 250 years ago. I'm not a huge fan of monarchies. I wouldn't shed a tear about it.

[B]

Put a laughing emoji every time the Crown Prince of Greece posts something on Facebook.

[A]

I like that. Yeah.

[B]

Crown Prince of Greece. You're not even Greek. You're Danish. How dare you.

[A]

Shut up, Malaka. Get out of here. I like that. You gotta. I'll retweet that when you do it.

[B]

Let me know when you do it.

[A]

But it's like the other problem with this, and maybe I'm like overthinking this a little bit, but these systems are so entrenched where from a backdoor economics perspective, whether it be real estate holdings, financial holdings, funnels of money, things like that, if it all came down at once, it could crash the whole system. Yes, that's real.

[B]

I think it's real. Yeah. I was watching BBC this morning, as a matter of fact, and they said as recently as three years ago, 80% of the British people support the monarchy. Today, 50% of the British people support the monarchy. Yeah. This is. They're at a tipping point. And if the Brits go, everybody else is going to go too. Look at Norway. Whoever even heard of the Norwegian royal family? But now you got ties to Epstein. He got the Crown Prince's or Crown Princess's son, being two women, now he's got to go on trial. What kind of people are these? Like, is it really worth it to to prop up these phonies as your, as your monarchs? No, I don't think so.

[A]

Of course it's, that's not the question here. That's not the question. It's like, like if I were just responding with my anger, I'd want the entire system, we're not just talking monarchies, to just fucking get a reset button.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Right. But I also know how much that would affect all of us if it all happened all at once. And so that's the strange dance in trying to go through this case. How do you find a way to go in with the raid. Right. And hit all the cockroaches.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But not, you know, accidentally sprayed in grandma's mouth at the same time.

[B]

And this is where you run into that problem of statutes of limitations again. Because it would be far easier if you could just prosecute these people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, and show the people of every one of these countries involved that it doesn't matter how famous you are or how important you are, we're all equal under the law.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That's just not going to be the case here. All these famous rich people, they're all going to get away with it. It's sick.

[A]

You don't think anyone in the US will go to prison for this?

[B]

I don't. You know, I was talking to a constitutional attorney about this and he said the only way that this, that a prosecution could go forward is if the Justice Department could successfully argue that the COVID up of the original crime continued and constituted a conspiracy. So you couldn't be, you couldn't be prosecuted necessarily for the crime itself. You would be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit the crime. But he said even that is a stretch.

[A]

What with statutes of limitations though, what about all the stuff we're seeing like in this latest tranche where these things are occurring, but a lot of it between 2011 and 2019, I would think there's not, if you were cannibal acts on kids in 2015, like we would

[B]

be able to prosecute that in some cases. On the, on the sex cases, the statute is five years. And so we've missed it. Which, you know what may have been a part of the plan, why didn't Joe fucking Biden release all this information?

[A]

Thank you. Every administration, I would argue, since Clinton has covered this up. And that's the thing.

[B]

Absolutely, yes.

[A]

Right. You have Trump in office right now and there's a massive cover up happening and it should be called out. Will call it out. It is what it is. We'll talk about that more. But every administration rd, red and blue, has had a chance to put this out. So all these Democrats who are suddenly just jumping on the train here because they can, right? And they can read a question their intern gave them, that's an easy slam dunk because they covered this up. It's like, I have no energy for those people either. This is a systemic problem that has happened to where you're just at a point now where the Democrats are like, well, the Clintons are so far past time and they're so old and, you know, like, we can throw them under the bus. They ain't like that.

[B]

Nobody cares anymore.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Uhhuh. But what about the victims then? What they don't h. How does that benefit the victims in any way?

[A]

And why. Why you finally get to depose Les Wexner, which. How about the fact he was listed as a co conspirator in the documents?

[B]

See, we never knew that.

[A]

And he's never been interviewed.

[B]

Never. Like, where was the FBI all these years? And another thing, too, and this, this goes back to the very basis of this case. Epstein got a Sweetheart deal in 2006. Right. And the U.S. attorney for the, the. Whatever it was, the Southern District, the Central District of Florida, whatever it was, I guess it was the Central District has said this is Acosta, who became Labor Secretary in Trump's first term, said that he was ordered to give this, this sweetheart deal. Okay, so where do orders come? Who, who's the only person in, in the, in the system there who can order a U.S. attorney to do something? That's the Attorney General. Well, the Attorney General was Alberto Gonzalez, who didn't brush his hair in the morning without permission from the President or the Vice President. Right. He was like, legendary for his powerlessness and ill suiting for the, for the position. So was it Bush, was it Cheney? Who was it that was close enough to Epstein that he would want to swoop in and save Epstein by giving him the sweetheart deal? Nobody's ever answered that question. And Acosta apparently genuinely doesn't know the answer. His order came down from the Attorney General.

[A]

I think I believe him on that.

[B]

I do, too. I believe him because he said, I

[A]

was told he belonged to Intelligence.

[B]

Intelligence.

[A]

The line.

[B]

That was the word. He belonged to Intelligence.

[A]

Well, this gets into that super government kind of thing, because it's like you say Bush and Cheney, which makes a lot of sense to me, but, like, my whole worldview is just like, oh, yeah, it's ridiculous.

[B]

You know, I used to, I Used to just piss all over people's analysis when they would start talking about the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg and the Shangri La Conference. And then somebody to whom I used to be very close.

[A]

Used to.

[B]

Used to. And about whom a court order exists, saying, I cannot talk about her in any public forum. She went to one of those events. She was invited because she rose up high enough in the corporate structure that she went, and I couldn't wait to hear what was it like? And she said, it's a lot of really rich, really important people talking about arms deals.

[A]

Arms deals.

[B]

It was all about arms deals. And she said, except for Davos. She went to Davos and she said that's where they were all talking about how to manage the global economy. And I said, so all that shit's true, that they're the ones that sort of set the policy? And she said, yeah, I saw it with my own eyes.

[A]

I. But I'm.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not.

[A]

Can you give me a pen?

[B]

Allowed to identify who that person is. Nor will I.

[A]

It's on. It's on the counter out there. Usually. I. I've never needed that before, but I. I may need that today after. After hearing that. All right, so the Trilateral Commission, for people out there who are unfamiliar, this is something that's been written about a lot in the past, and once again, it's something that's always written off like,

[B]

oh, God, this is another conspiracy theory. Well, let's not go so fast.

[A]

It's all. It's a real thing.

[B]

It is. They even have a website. They have a website. We pull up the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg, they list all the people that attend by name. All these people. And you'll recognize 80% of them.

[A]

Oh, man. Well, I mean, I guess that's hiding in plain sight, but it's something where I. I guess what I should say is the connotation of. It was where the conspiracy theorists would be saying something, and people would be like, no, it's just this group. It's the. It's David Rockefeller.

[B]

Like, I know, right?

[A]

Arian de Rothschild, you know, and. Yeah, listen, they. We put Clinton on it.

[B]

He was.

[A]

He was bored after he left office, you know? And then you get Epstein in this. This. Sit down with Steve Bannon, we will talk about him. But you get Epstein saying, yeah, I was on the Trilateral Commission, and here's how I got on. And he makes it sound so simple.

[B]

Yeah, right?

[A]

I'm like, how do you even get there, buddy?

[B]

You're a kid from Coney island, somebody taps you on the shoulder, next thing you know you're getting an.

[A]

Dave, can you put the camera on John?

[B]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Son of a bitch.

[A]

Really? I knew it. But really?

[B]

Yeah, it was very.

[A]

She good in there?

[B]

God damn. It was very disappointing to me.

[A]

You can't talk about that by court ordered.

[B]

No, sir.

[A]

Yeah. I already didn't like her. Now I really don't like her. But. Wow. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. This is the life I've given myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is life I've given myself. Okay, so back to the 08 Sweetheart deal, because we're talking about where that would come from. You know, I'm trying to not let my brain run too wild with. Now every possible answer is all over here. It's all like, absolutely the worst thing ever. But clearly some of the answers are there. So without getting to his origin story yet, because that's. Again, we're gonna do that. But you talk about. At the Trilateral Commission, they are going over arms deals and everything. And now this is entering your world of things that you have witnessed around the world and how shit work. What is it about arms deals that would make it the number one priority for the quote, unquote, Illuminati of the world?

[B]

Of the Pentagon's $1 trillion budget, fully a third goes to weapons and weapons systems. Right. That's just for us. So couple that with what we're able to sell to other countries whose leaders are at these conferences. I mean, we're talking about, you know, probably a majority of the American economy year after year after year. That's how we employ Americans. I read something recently. Oh, the Washington Post, the New York Times, that the Pentagon has assiduously placed manufacturers, or I shouldn't say placed manufacturers. They have placed orders with manufacturers in literally every one of the 435 congressional districts. So literally every single member of Congress has constituents who are dependent on the defense economy, on the defense budget. And so there's no incentive for any member of Congress to vote no on dodge.

[A]

And they're also paid by all those companies.

[B]

Yeah, sure. I mean, it costs, what, 5, 8, 10, $20 million to run for Congress every two years? That money's gotta come from somewhere. So it comes from Defense Department PACs.

[A]

They buy them off on the micro and then it wins them. The macro. When you put the numbers together. Yeah, Deep. Would you pull up here?

[B]

Just confirming.

[A]

All right, so the Washington Post reports that the Pentagon structurally distributes manufacturing and contracting across almost every congressional District to secure broad local political, making budget cuts difficult. The strategy embeds defense spending into the local economy, with analysis showing that despite a high concentration of funds among top contractors, the broader supply chain is deeply embedded in domestic districts.

[B]

Yeah, a friend of mine has a little, kind of little mom and pop manufacturing plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania.

[A]

Airtime international.

[B]

No, no, no. It's a little. Just a little place you've never heard of. And he mentioned something to me one time. Oh, this is probably five years ago. He mentioned that he is entirely dependent on the Pentagon. And I was like, the Pentagon? I said, for what? Oh, I can't tell you. He said, it's a classified program. I said, seriously, George, like, I thought he was making, you know, heels for shoes or something. I didn't know what he was making. And then later on he told me, like, no, it's this little widget that fits inside, you know, the motor for a, you know, Patriot missile or something like that.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

It was like in. In Beaver County. And he's like, yeah. And then when I saw that report in the Washington Post, I was like, oh, of course, it all makes sense.

[A]

What percentage of the trilateral commission, if you had to broadly guess, do you think is influenced by bankers around the world?

[B]

Oh, all of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, all of it, sure.

[A]

The reason I asked that is because again, I. I love this supra term that Tucker came up with.

[B]

I think it's great, right?

[A]

So presidents of the power countries around the world, the ones that actually matter at the UN Rights think like U. S. China, Russia, and then, you know, the people below them too. But above that you got, let's say the fixer class like the Epstein's of the world, who really hold the power to pull the strings on the peasant of ante right here, who are the presidents and kings and all that. And then above that you have the people who finance them and the people who finance them as bankers. If you want to look at this this way and it's fair to do it right now, look at things like financing wars to make money and profit off death, which also we could even get into the conversation of them trying to manage population control and doing so. Is that a ridiculous statement?

[B]

I think that's a conversation that ought to be out there. Yeah.

[A]

What makes you think we should have that conversation? Like what kinds of things that you've heard?

[B]

Population control and even the reverse of that is something that is now making headlines. I read an article just in the past week or two that China likely does not have 1.1 billion people, that they've consistently lied about their population and that they probably have something, something closer to 650 million or 700 million people. But they want the rest of the world to believe that they have all these people because it makes, it makes the case for these strong economic numbers that they're always putting out, which also are probably not true. A country like Greece, Greece is in trouble because Greece went through this very long term economic. It was a depression. It wasn't even a recession. It was a depression. And so much of the educated middle class, doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, they just left. They went to the us, the uk, Australia, Canada, Germany. And so there almost is no middle class or no upper middle class in Greece. It just left. Well, the economy then is unsustainable because there's nobody there to create jobs. There was a, there was a piece, oh, years ago in the Washington Post saying if you look at the shrinkage in Russia's population, if it keeps declining at its current rate, you're going to like this. In 150 years, there won't be any Russians. They just won't exist anymore.

[A]

What's the State Department going to do?

[B]

I know, right? Then, what do you do? Now, of course, immigration changes that, that calculus, but you know, we're talking about the possible, what's the word, the possibility that countries just can no longer remain viable as countries without real population changes. I told you about my encounter with David Rockefeller, did I not?

[A]

You did not tell me about that. No.

[B]

I was working in Bahrain in the American Embassy. I was the economic officer and I was a longtime subscriber to this wonderful magazine called Art News Magazine. And I read this article about David Rockefeller being given this major like Art World award for the work that he's done over the course of 75 years or whatever it was for art in New York. And then we get a cable from the State Department saying that David Rockefeller is coming to Bahrain because he's being given an award by the Bahraini American Bankers Association. And the ambassador comes into my office, David Ransom, wonderful, wonderful ambassador, lovely human being, one of the best bosses I ever had. And he said, hey, we got a cable from State saying that David Rockefeller's coming out to Bahrain. He's going to collect this award from the Bankers Association. I said, the Bankers Association? And he said, yeah, I want you to be his control officer. I said, I'd love to be his control officer. What that means is you arrange the car, you arrange the, the hotel, you make sure he gets from point a To point b and just make sure there are no problems. If he wants to go shopping, you take him shopping. You do anything he wants. I welcomed it. Well, as soon as the bahrainis heard that david rockefeller was coming, his highness the emir announces, we're going to do a state dinner, right? So the entire cabinet, the entire royal family, the entire diplomatic corps, all the ambassadors, all the credited diplomats. This is a major event, like the biggest social event of the year. It's. It's at his main palace. They're like 500 people there. So I go, and I was saving my congress. See, I thought I was very clever. I was just a stupid kid. So I saved my congratulations for his award for the receiving line. So I say to the emir, it's such a pleasure to see you, your highness. And I said, the prime minister, we didn't like each other very much. Like, you know, hello, hello, hello. He would always say, hello, kiriakou. Yeah. And then he would kind of stare at me.

[A]

You're like the spy version of a veep episode. I don't know if anyone ever told you of that.

[B]

And then it comes david rockefeller. And I said, Mr. Rockefeller, I wanted to congratulate you on your, you know, whatever it was called, award. Oh, he lights up. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of that award. The guggenheim and the met. And then I, you know, go. And then the next night, he collects his award from the bankers association and he leaves. So we had a 9 o' clock meeting in the embassy every day. It was, you know, the ambassador, the deputy chief of mission, and the heads of all the department apartments. So I'm in there in the morning meeting. And the ambassador says, so the rockefeller visit went very well. And I said, because I'm an idiot. I said, why would a guy who's almost 100 years old fly halfway around the world to collect a little trophy from some bankers that he's never met before? And the ambassador goes like this. He goes, john, john, you're supposed to be the smart one. I said, what? What am I missing? He's like, he didn't come for the banker's award. That was his cover stop. And I said, so what was he doing here? He said, david rockefeller is the secret back channel to saddam hussein. He came here to make it look like he had business in the middle east. We put him on a military transport this morning and sent him to baghdad to tell saddam hussein to, cut it out or you're gonna get a bomb up your ass. And then he flew back from baghdad And I was like, man, I have a lot to learn. Wow.

[A]

That didn't impact your worldview a little bit?

[B]

Oh, yeah, it sure did. Like, things are not what they seem.

[A]

Might be an inappropriate thing to say these days, but that's like a Jay Z line. Yeah. We got Rockefeller out there with Saddam. Yeah, yeah, that's.

[B]

I'm friendly with his daughter now and she.

[A]

Rockefeller.

[B]

Yeah, Abby Rockefeller. She's very, very sweet. No, no, she's a communist. And. Yeah, Abby's great. She. She went to Harvard in the 60s and became a communist and rebelled against her family. And she gives all of her money to left wing charities and concerns. She's fantastic too.

[A]

Good, keep going. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, I. I mentioned the story to her and she said, yeah, that sounds exactly like something my dad would do. Yeah, what do I know?

[A]

Yeah, well, she went the opposite way. Give her that, I guess. But how'd you become friends with her there?

[B]

I'm on the board of COVID Action magazine. And. And she's a supporter of the magazine.

[A]

No kidding. That's not Covert Action magazine. That doesn't sound sketchy at all.

[B]

It was founded by Philip Agee, who the CIA tried to assassinate for decades. He was a CIA case officer who saw what covert actions were. Were doing to innocent people in Latin America in the late 60s. And so he went public and wrote a book called Inside the Company. And as an appendix at the back of the book, he listed the names of every CIA officer he ever encountered and outed everybody and then took off for Cuba. And the CIA hunted him down from country to country to country. They finally gave up. He died in Cuba, I don't know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And his son has kept the magazine going. And the co founder of the magazine, Lou Wolf, shout out to Lou, who's now like 87 or 88 years old. He's a good friend of mine. This was Lou's baby with Philip Agee. And the magazine, still a monthly concern. I write for it every month.

[A]

Do you think we have so many examples of where covert actions were just taken for imperialism purposes or just because we felt like overthrowing.

[B]

There's actually a Wikipedia page.

[A]

Let's pull it up.

[B]

Yeah, CIA covert action, Wikipedia. The first one was the 1949 Italian election.

[A]

Right. With the communists. And there was a deleted scene in the Godfather that Francis Coppola put in there where Michael's walking in the fields with Fabrizio.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he sees it in the. In the hillsides at Corleone. And he sees the, the red, like little army of, you know, communist supporters right there. And he's like, whatever. And Fabrizio is like comunisti. And that was right around that it's taken place right around the time where that was going to be a thing where they were going to come in and take over the power vacuum, post Mussolini with the opposite side.

[B]

And then CIA is like, no, no you don't. That, that covert action operation, it was the first one and it's been declassified by the CIA. It was very simple. They gave $150,000 in cash to the Christian Democratic Party, which was the Conservative Party. It was behind the communists in the polls. They were going to lose the election. The communists were going to win. You can't have a communist government in Western Europe. Right. That's just for the east Eastern part of Europe. And so what they did is they used that money to bribe journalists to write pro conservative articles in the run up to the election. And they were able to swing just enough votes that the conservatives won.

[A]

And it was only 150 grand.

[B]

Yeah, it was the first one. So that was a lot of money in the 40s though.

[A]

I know, but for the whole party, for a bunch of journalists? I mean, I'm splitting up that pie. It's getting smaller and like Don Calavazzini was taking a baseball bat to people too.

[B]

Well, I mean, think of it this way too. If you're a journalist and you're asked to write 500 words, that's probably worth $500 in 1949. Money. I mean, if that's what you get paid today, that was a lot of money in 1949.

[A]

Yeah, but if I'm gonna swing an election, you gotta add a zero to that.

[B]

Yeah, maybe.

[A]

Yeah. So you're. Alright, so we're looking at this Wikipedia page. Everyone else can pull this up too. And it's funny cause Wikipedia is run by the CIA and they can't even stop this article from happening.

[B]

Well, oftentimes the CIA gets, gets outed. When people look at the, at the ISP information for the editors, it oftentimes goes back to Langley.

[A]

They're that dumb. Come on.

[B]

Yeah, they're that dumb. Really? Yeah, yeah. I remember in my own case, we, we asked, we asked for something in discovery. I don't remember what it was. And it was, we were, we were having a meeting, all the attorneys, I had 11 attorneys. And one of them said, hey, we should ask for X. And one of the other attorneys said, oh, come on, they're not that stupid. And he said, no, actually, they are that stupid. And sure enough, they had fucked it up. And. And they ended up having to drop three charges just because of that. They're arrogant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They think they're smarter than everybody else. Is that they don't make mistakes. Or even if they do make mistakes, you're not smart enough to figure out that they've made a mistake. And that's just simply not true.

[A]

But it's also like, John, they have a VC arm, as we've outlined before.

[B]

They do.

[A]

Or everyone outlines it in Q Tel.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they admit who they invest. Oh, yeah, we threw money at Palantir.

[B]

Sure. And now look at Palantir. Billions in revenue.

[A]

And it's like, that's where sometimes I wonder. Yes, I hear you. There's hubris there. There's you. We can do what we want. We're seeing that play out on a massive scale right now. But sometimes I wonder if there's. If I'm crazy to wonder, too, if there's like a 5D chess thing here where people are like, we know some of this will come out, and that's what we want to happen because we want society to sure the out.

[B]

Sure. That happens. That. That happens sometimes. Yeah.

[A]

And it could have happened with things that. Not even related to your case, but that CIA might do as it relates to Wikipedia, where they're like, yeah, people will flip out about this by 2025. After 2026. After we do that whole pandemic thing.

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[A]

Oh, exactly.

[B]

I mean, as an example. Sure. Why not?

[A]

Hypothetically.

[B]

Hypothetically, sure, sure. And another thing, too, is if you throw, you know, so many of these ideas for operations out there or these little mini operations, there are some that are just gonna, you know, not come to people's attention. They're not gonna realize that it's a. Some sort of a covert action operation or disinformation operation.

[A]

A disinformation. See, that's the big one. Now, today, you don't know who's behind keyboards anywhere. Right. We do it to a doctor.

[B]

You don't. But even. Even the people who are supposed to be the good guys, you can't trust. I've told you this before. I've got this buddy, Jason Leopold. He's at Bloomberg. Jason is one of the best investigative journalists I've ever encountered in my life. And honest. Honest as the day is long. He. He's the FOIA king. He's filed more Freedom of Information act requests than anybody else in the history of the Freedom of Information Act. To the point where George W. Bush's Pentagon spokesman called him a FOIA terrorist. On the record called him a FOIA terrorist. It was Jason that broke the Hillary Clinton email scandal. Whoa.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

Through a FOIA request.

[A]

He got that through a FOIA. That's it.

[B]

So he told me. This is about 10 years ago. He told me that he was bored. One week over Christmas break, he was bored, so he just filed a FOIA request. He had nothing else to do.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

And he asks for all communications between the CIA and all journalists, period. Any for this period? No, no, for this. This period of whatever it was a year, I think, is what it was. And you know, the CIA never, ever, ever answers FOIAs. They say, oh, they send you a letter saying, okay, thank you. It's in queue. Well, I filed a FOIA request 15 years ago. I'm still waiting.

[A]

What's the legality of that, though?

[B]

They have 60 days. So what happens is when day 60 comes, you have to sue them and you will always win. And because the law is clear, they have 60 days, you will always win, and the judge will always make them pay your legal fees because you. Because you won.

[A]

But

[B]

he wins every single.

[A]

So they do give it to him.

[B]

Yeah, they have to.

[A]

Why haven't you gotten yours?

[B]

It's been because I haven't sued them. I don't care anymore. I wanted to write an article about.

[A]

Start a GoFundMe so John can sue these guys.

[B]

I wanted to write an article about a guy who I think was probably a CIA officer in the early 50s, and he became a science fiction author. And then he had a mental breakdown and committed suicide. And I think he was one of the MK Ultra victims.

[A]

Do you want to say who this is or.

[B]

You know what? To tell you the honest to God's truth, I don't remember his name anymore. It's been so many years. I'm sure I still have the FOIA request.

[A]

The way that started, I was worried you were going to say L. Ron Hubbard.

[B]

No, no, no, no. I don't want to poke that hornet. I have enough problems in my life, thank you. You take on the Church of Scientology? No way. So anyway, he files this FOIA request at Christmas. This is like Christmas of 2015, maybe. And they don't respond, so he sues them. He used the same attorney every time. Jeffrey Light, who's now retired. Jeffrey never, ever, ever lost a FOIA case. And so finally they just give him this dump. And he found several Things that were fascinating. One Kendallanian, formerly of the Los Angeles Times, now the chief intelligence correspondent. Chief national security correspondent for NBC News and Ms. Now. Okay, he was writing articles and then sending them to the CIA for clearance before he sent them to his own editors. Is it okay, guys if I write this about you? Because if it's not okay, just tell me and I'll kill you.

[A]

It. Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. Number one, scandalous. He should have resigned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Number two, there was this young, unknown, hungry, independent journalist who actually stumbled on a story and he's like, hey, I found this information and I'm writing this article. It's going to go out tomorrow. Would you care to comment? And they wrote back to him and they said, so help us God, if you publish this, you will never be invited to the Christmas party ever again. And we will never give you an off the record briefing. You're going to be banned. Oh, and he killed his own article. You know, people say all the time, oh, operation, you know, Grasshopper or whatever it was called. Paper, not Paperclip. What was the one that, where they were recruiting journalists.

[A]

Operation. Oh, my God, whatever. Not Midnight Climax.

[B]

No, that. That was part of MK Ultra.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Mark Gagnon and I talked about that in September 2024 on his show. I remember that, but I can't remember the name.

[B]

Mockingbird. Thank you. Operation Mockingbird. People are like, well, you know, Operation Mockingbird. They don't need Operation Mockingbird anymore. They just threaten you and tell you you're not invited to the Christmas party. They don't need to recruit people anymore.

[A]

It's access journalism.

[B]

That's exactly what it is. And it's a result of the demise of investigative journalism. Very, very few outlets anywhere in America have budgets for investigative journalism anymore.

[A]

I have. I can't say that I've had people like from Intelligence or something call up and try to get you to do stuff, but I've had some weird calls from normal people with normal jobs, you know, let's say in like middleman type things where they're trying to anchor you to ideas and stories and certain people and stuff like that. I've dealt with it a lot and it to me immediately blinks off as like audience capture.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And almost all the time, these are things that if I did it, not every time, but a lot of the times, if I did it, we'd make a lot of money. Yeah, a lot of money.

[B]

I believe it.

[A]

I won't say what it was, but there were back to back days a couple months ago where I was offered whale and whale. These are episodes that would. They would pay my bills for seven, eight months. And I could not have said no fast enough. Enough.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

Because I know algorithmically what it would also do. And that's what they do. They want to get people. They. Whoever the they are, because it's someone

[B]

who's below and you'll never figure it out.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Who they are.

[A]

They want to influence people to get just certain things in the algorithm at all times. So their income becomes tethered to that. And that's a really dangerous thing. I've said to people before. I know I knew the system probably enough by March or April 2022 that I won't get into details. But if I wanted to have 8 or 9 million subscribers today, I could have done it.

[B]

I have 1.13, which is also incredible.

[A]

Thank you. I would love to be able to. To have more money to put into this though, and really be able to build it out. And I can't do that. But I've kept my principles intact in doing that because to get to that eight or nine, you are selling your soul. There is absolutely no middle ground. There is no gray area. I know exactly what it was. And it's like, do it or don't. But that's an easy call for me.

[B]

Yeah. I have to agree with you. If you don't have your self respect and independence, then what do you have?

[A]

Yeah. Now there's another side to what you're saying, though, about the journalists, though, that gets really weird. And a mutual friend of ours, Joby Warwick, has talked about this openly.

[B]

Joby. Joby's like the guiding light on this issue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's very diplomatic.

[A]

One of the most diplomatic people I've ever met in my life. So Joby's been the national security reporter forever. Forever at the Washington Post. He's got two Pulitzers and.

[B]

And he's an incredible author. Like his books just rocket straight to number one on the New York Times bestsellers list. And they're incredibly researched.

[A]

They're so well done. But love the guy. And the very first time I ever talked with him on episode 134, he was going through it and then talked about it with me off camera. He said, there's a really tough thing. He's like, I've got sources in intelligence that I'm really good friends with and stuff. And that's like, then are they telling you the truth? Are they using the friendship? But then also he goes, you'll write a story and As a journalist, you have to go to the people involved with the story and offer a chance to comment before it gets published. And he'll get a con. He'll get a call from CIA with his editor in the room right there or NSA or whoever and say, if you publish this, X number of people will die.

[B]

Yeah, they always say that.

[A]

Right. And he said, we legit have to go into a conference room and basically play like blind, you know, monkeys throwing darts at the board to see if this is one of those where they're lying or not.

[B]

That's absolutely true. Yes. And if it's really, really sensitive, you'll get a call from the national Security advisor above the CIA director.

[A]

Shouldn't that set off a lot of alarm bells, though?

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

What is the line there? Like, if you. Let's say there is one and for real, 150 people, whoever they are, are going to die from it.

[B]

But there's no easy answer. I will say though, that they, they throw that whole blood on your hands argument at people all the time. Tom Drake tells this fantastic story. Tom Drake, the NSA whistleblower? Tom. Tom is the one who, who first told us that NSA was spying on Americans. After 9 11. They were just waiting for 911 to happen so that they could spy on Americans, which is what they did, and they continued to do 25 years later. So Tom was charged with nine felonies, including seven counts of espionage and two counts of theft of government property, which was the information. He walked out of the building with the information in his head, and they charged him with theft.

[A]

Thought crime.

[B]

Yeah. So to make a long story short, the entire case fell apart and all of the charges were thrown out. But he went to a proffer meeting at the Justice Department where they say, here's the information we have against you, and here's the sentence we're going to ask for when we convict you. Unless you want to confess, tell us some answers to questions we may have, and then we can talk about a slightly later sentence. So he was looking at. It was like 55 years. It was. I think it was 55 years. A long time. And. And they said, you have the blood of dozens of American soldiers on your hands. And to his credit, he says, name one. One single soldier who died because I said NSA was spying on Americans. Name one and I'll take a guilty plea. Name him. And then they backed off. And then later on, after the case was thrown out, they left the accusations against him on the NSA and the DOJ websites, but they took out the slide where they accused him of having the blood of American soldiers on his hands. They just make that up and throw it at you to scare you. They do it all the time.

[A]

They even did it with Maduro.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's a bad guy.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

Remember the cartel de Los Solis that got removed from the indictment the minute he touched down over here?

[B]

Never existed on 30th Street. Never existed.

[A]

There's. I don't. I forget the term for it off the top of my head. Maybe if I describe it right you can look it up deep. But like the, ah, it's like obfuscation by overstimulation, like providing way too much information that people are like, I ain't reading all that. That you can just kind of like poke in little things like just millions of Epstein documents. That's exactly. I love the transition that you were catching on to there, John, because as you said correctly. And we should go back to that now because that's why people are here. But as you said very correctly, there's another two and a half to three million documents. I've heard varying numbers on that. Correct me in the comments, people that they have now said we're never going to release. And people like Tim Burchette have come out and said who's seen some of these documents, has come out and said things like this includes cannibalism. Yeah. And stuff like that. And you have to wonder when you think about, let's say, a report that Marjorie Taylor Greene has relayed about her conversation with Donald Trump on this to where he said this is going to hurt a lot of my friends if it comes out. You have to wonder what types of friends are being protected, obviously. And then furthermore, why the are you friends with these people? These are the things they do. Because to me it's like I don't want the president to be a pedophile or associated with that and stuff. I want to believe he's not, but. And they fired Joe Paterno in two days for covering up one guy in 2002. The guy had the fucking stadium named after him at Penn State. This is the President of the United States who along again, and I will say this along with every administration before him, name him, Clinton, Obama, Bush, Biden, Trump won all of them. They've all covered this up. And it's the most massive pedophilia and many other things scandal. We will talk about the national security in a minute. The that we've ever seen. What does that say about him?

[B]

A lot, unfortunately. And I'll add something to that. There's an internal Bureau of Prisons rule at DOJ that anybody convicted of a child sex crime is forbidden from serving his or her sentence in a minimum security work camp. Can't do it. They also don't serve their sentences in maximum security penitentiaries or medium security prisons because they'll be killed there. Right. Everybody beats on pedophiles in prison, so all of the pedophiles go to low security prisons. So there's still, you know, the double concertina wire and the controlled movements and all that stuff. But in a minimum, you're free to just come and go as you please. There are no locked doors, there are no bars in the windows. Most everybody works in town, you know, as a janitor or a gardener.

[A]

Pedophiles are working in town.

[B]

They're not supposed to be because there aren't supposed to be any pedophiles in the minimum security work camps. But that's where Ghislaine Maxwell was sent. Minimum security work. She's the only pedophile in the entire federal prison system who's in a minimum security work camp and she was transferred there by the President. Why? Why would he do something like that?

[A]

I sent you an article before this, Steve. There were a few in the text. I don't know if you can pull it up, but it was the guy talking about the three reports related to Maxwell and Trump. If you just go through our text chain, it's somewhere in there. But what Deep will get it in a sec, because I sent deep, like 15 things right before we went on. But, but you have to wonder,

[B]

I

[A]

mean, this is a lady who's pictured at the Clinton's daughter's funeral leaning over the edge. This is a lady who's pictured with every master of the universe. This is a lady who's directly tied to the Royal Family, whose father is at the center of this whole thing, who knew Donald Trump for 30. Like, they know she knew everybody. So what is she? What does she have on him?

[B]

Him?

[A]

Like maybe here's a good way to start it. Do you see any scenario where Jeffrey Epstein, as a spy, which he definitely was a spy, was not prioritizing blackmail as a means to get whatever it is he needed to get?

[B]

He had to have been right. I mean, what's the point of running the operation if it's not to collect compromat on everybody? Just in case, you know, one of the things that I learned very early on at the CIA was we really, really didn't like to Squeeze people, right, with, you know, surreptitiously taken photographs of them with prostitutes or, you know, you want, you want to recruit somebody based on a friendly relationship. You want them to do it it because they like you and they trust you. They're probably doing it for the money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you don't want to threaten people. The Russians do that. The Israelis also do that. And so from the very beginning, I thought that this, this was a part of the whole Epstein saga. It was about blackmail. It had to have been. I don't understand it otherwise. I don't understand what the draw. First of all, he's a creepy looking guy. Yeah. He's naked half the time. Apparently Virginia Giuffre said he had a deformed penis that looked like an egg. So what's this guy have going for him besides money? But they all have money, so what's the difference?

[A]

See, now I want to say something serious, but you're making me laugh. So I had an Epstein victim sitting in that chair the other day. And this part's not funny, but the thing that really struck me in what she was saying, and that episode will come out after this one, by the way, people, it'll be two episodes, was how brilliant of a manipulator he was.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting.

[A]

And that's what he had going for him. And I'm gonna give you an example on this, that she would say he would call her up because she was a model and set an actress and set her up with meetings in Hollywood, New York, wherever. That he's not going to be at was someone powerful that he knew. And the idea is that she's going to get r ped at these meetings.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And she would go to them and most of the time nothing would happen. But he would call her after every single one. Now, when she brought this up an hour earlier, I had asked her the question. I had said, do you think that, like, we don't know much about Jeffrey Epstein's childhood. We know he had parents, we know he had a brother, grew up in Coney island, but we don't know what was going on when Jeffrey Epstein was 9 years old. So it's possible he's a monster that was abused as a child? Certainly possible, sure. But like, let's assume he wasn't. Where do you think a person like that learns the psychological tactics to be able to become this monster to get people? And she was like, that's a great, great question. And it's like a rhetorical question. I don't expect anyone to have an answer. But then an hour later, she's talking about these phone calls. He would call her after all of these meetings, and he'd want to know every detail, like. Like drastically, like, all right, what do you say? What do you do? And. And he'd be like, did you hook up with her? Which means that she would have been raped. And she'd be like, no. And he'd be like, why not? What. When you went in there, what do you do? What do you say? And I said, oh, my God. He's like Bill Belichick and Tom Brady watching football tape, except he's getting tape of predators and what works and what doesn't.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so that guy having those types of skills, and, like, the first time he came in and met her, he wanted to know about her dreams, her family, the dynamics, what she was interested in, life, places she wanted to go. You know, all these psychological things that hook you to someone and make you trust them. He obviously had those skills, and these skills would be paramount, correct me if I'm wrong, in being able to be someone who wanted to surreptitiously get information for espionage purposes. Is that fair to say?

[B]

Absolutely. Yes, 100%.

[A]

So with the blackmail, I was talking with someone else on the phone the other day, who I'll probably have on the podcast to talk about this and make the arguments, but he was, I don't know, Steel manning the argument that the blackmail was defensive blackmail, paranoia, blackmail. And at the end of his argument, I said to him, I was like, every leap you had to make to make the argument that it was just defensive in. In nature. I don't have to make a single one of those leaps to say it was offensive in nature.

[B]

Absolutely right. Absolutely right. You know, and it's one thing to have a little kernel of a story that you tuck back in your mind just in case you need it to protect yourself at some point. It's an entirely different thing to 24 hours a day, collect intelligence on everybody. I just don't buy the argument that it was defensive in nature. No.

[A]

Meaning he was doing that. That for himself. But the question is. And now. Now we should get to the origin story. Was he doing that at the behest as a literal employee or as a.

[B]

Well, see, that's really the $64,000 question. And my thinking has evolved. Do you know what that's a reference to?

[A]

I actually don't.

[B]

Oh, it's a. It was a game show in the 1950s called the $64,000 Question. It was like Jeopardy. You get to the end and if you win the big prize, it's $64,000. But it went off the air because it turned out it was fixed. And so the producers and the hosts were prosecuted. So it's no, it was no longer on TV after a few years anyway, when somebody cuts right to the chase, that's the $64,000 question. Gotcha. My thinking has changed on this, has evolved on this. I've always maintained that Epstein to me, was obviously a Mossad access agent. And I said that right here on the show. Now, with the release of this latest tranche of documents, I think he was more than that and that he was probably not exclusive to the Israelis. I think he was what's called an intelligence peddler or an intelligence broker, but a more sophisticated one. What an intelligence peddler is normally is, let's say you are a Pakistani guy and you work in a restaurant and two Al Qaeda guys come into the restaurant, they have lunch and you hear something. You go to the American embassy and you say, listen, I've got this bit of information. I want to talk to a CIA office officer. So John comes downstairs and I say, well, what do you have? And you give me the information. Okay, sounds plausible. I'm going to give you a few hundred dollars for your trouble. But then you go to the British embassy and do the same thing, and then the French embassy and then the Russian embassy and then the Chinese embassy, and you've just made six months worth of salary. Right, that's an intelligence peddler. Epstein would have been far, far more sophisticated than that. And his intelligence is not coming from two Al Qaeda guys having lunch. It's coming from Bill Clinton and Bill Gates and Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew and all of these other movers and shakers that he was constantly in touch with. Now who. Who would it have been for? Well, we now know from these documents that through his attorney, he was actively seeking an admission by the CIA that he was somehow associated with the CIA. And they did the same thing with the National Security Council. It doesn't look like they ever got a response.

[A]

They foiaed them when he went to jail, summer 2019. And this was what was interesting. He foid them for the dates between sometime in 2000 and 2014. Now, here's why this was interesting to me, John, because there, there's a bigger point. I don't want to get lost, but we'll tangent. I've. I'm very open minded on this now. Because I, I agree with you. I think we're seeing a lot more. And I think like I saw Dave Smith tweet out something that would have seemed crazy a few weeks ago. And now I'm like, that's not crazy. Where he said, I used to think Epstein worked for Mossad. Now I wonder if Mossad worked for Epstein. I don't think I'm there. However, it does feel like there wasn't a. I used the word employee in my question. It does not feel like there was an employee relationship.

[B]

I agree. And, and that's one of the things that I've, I've changed in my own mind. Not an employee of Mossad. We know from these latest documents that he had some sort of association with MI5 and MI6, essentially the FBI and the CIA of the UK.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

We know that he made an approach to the German intelligence service and we know that he tried hard to get a one on one meeting with Vladimir Putin. They went back and forth and back and forth. And finally the Russians agreed that he could meet with Putin and three other people. And he said, no, it has to be just Putin. And the Russians said, no. What the fuck is that all about? Why would he, what would he have to say to Vladimir Putin? Putin that is so sensitive that the head of the, you know, SVR couldn't be in the room. He had to say it directly to Putin.

[A]

All right, let me throw a fishing line out here. That's all this is, people. It's a fishing line. You don't have to bite on this. So I had David Satter in for episodes 92 and 133 back in 2022.

[B]

I don't know how you remember the episode numbers. I don't remember who I interviewed a week ago. And I see the, the icon pop up on my thing. I'm like, I have no idea.

[A]

I have a photographic, audio, visual memory. It helps. But David Satter was actually roommates with Bill Clinton or on the same hall as Bill Clinton at Oxford and knew him and then later had some issues with Clinton, which was interesting. Really nice guy. I like David. David became the chief Moscow correspondent for the financial times in 1976.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He was then kicked out of the Soviet Union in somewhere the area 87, 88. He was one of the last people unkicked out after it flipped over to being Russia again, but came back and as Russia was rebuilding itself, if you want to call it that, became the preeminent psychologist of Putin in the Western world. He eventually became the First Western journalist to be banned from Russia in December 2013. Conveniently right before Maidan, when he was at the Ukrainian embassy looking to go back into Russia. Basically he got the FSB line where they're like, I forget what the exact line was. It was like 15 minutes into episode 92. It was very dramatic, but like it was something like, whoa, okay, you're gonna get whacked if you go in there. And so David obviously has a lot of strong opinions because Putin literally killed some of his friends. Boris Nemtsov was someone he was tight with. Anna Politskaya was someone he was tight with. Right. So obviously he doesn't like him at all. And I fully understand that. But I was. After David was there the first time, I was reading one of his books and I forget which one it was, but there was a little mention in there that just made my, like the hairs on, on my arm go up.

[B]

Up.

[A]

Six months before that maybe I had been reading this series by Henry Abbott about the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Apollo Global. That ring a bell?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So Drexel Burnham Lambert becomes the guys who found Leon Black. All that basically. Henry Abbott was a, is a basketball reporter. He had a blog on ESPN called True Hoops. I used to read this when I was a kid. And then ESPN laid off everybody in the 2000 and tens because they lost money. So he just kept his blog and did it from the outside. So he sees that some guys from Apollo Global get on the ownership of like three different NBA teams. And in 2020 he's like, that's interesting. They're kind of connected to Epstein. Let me do an investigation.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

He's planning on doing a two or three part investigation. Fucking guy goes nuts. It becomes a 21 chapter investigation. Some of the greatest I have ever read in my life. And one of the things that he really outlined, and it was sourced out the wazoo, was the whole admin khashoggi thing. And the admin. I've been waiting to bring this up the whole time. The admin relationship with Jeffrey Epstein from an arms dealing perspective, from a sex trafficking perspective, from an international like government communication perspective. So fast forward again back six months later. I'm reading David's book and he mentions this one war that was like war. It was like one day. Yeah, that happened in the middle of like the second Chechen War, when Putin's basically seizing power at the time as a wartime leader and then eventually is able to move up the elections and get into the off. Get into office. But Some. I forget even what it was, but some army invaded that was related to Russia. Correct me if I'm wrong in the comments, but it was something like this, basically, like invaded Dagestan with a bunch of helicopters, drop, you know, a few bombs or something, and then left. And they were going to come back. But a meeting was organized between the Russian government and the Dagestanis in either Monte Carlo or Nice.

[B]

Seriously.

[A]

At the home of Adnan Khashoggi. And he just had it in there.

[B]

That is a very. That is a stereotypical Adnan Khashoggi thing to do.

[A]

And why would that be? For people out there who are not familiar with Adnan Khashoggi.

[B]

His actual name in Arabic is. Is Khashoggi. Saudi. Saudi arms dealer. Saudi man about the world fixer, friend of kings and presidents and prime ministers. The uncle of Jamal Khashoggi, who was the Washington Post columnist whacked by the Saudi crown prince.

[A]

Believe he's a cousin to Dodi F. Too?

[B]

No.

[A]

Did I say that out loud? Can we Google that?

[B]

Is that true?

[A]

Did I make that up? I might have made that up. Kogi related to Dodi F. Ed.

[B]

So you know, when he's the maternal uncle. No way. The Fayeds are Egyptians.

[A]

Yeah. Uncle and nephew.

[B]

Pull it up for you.

[A]

Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi was the maternal uncle of Dodi Fayed, making them uncle and nephew rather than cousins. Dodi Fayed's mother was Samira Kashogi.

[B]

Oh. Who was my sister, actual uncle and nephew.

[A]

And Jody Fayed was the man that Princess Diana was dating who was killed alongside her in Paris.

[B]

I never knew that. I never knew that.

[A]

Continue, John.

[B]

So it's all tied together. It is.

[A]

It's all tied to.

[B]

The world's not a. Not a big place. No. So when. When Congress passed a law in 1983 that we could no longer arm the. The Contra rebels, Colonel Oliver north, who was the Pentagon designee to the National Security Council, decided to just go around the law. And he did that by contacting Adnan Khashoggi and organizing a very complicated operation whereby we would sell arms to the Iranians, which was against the law. We would do that through Khashoggi. He used his own bank account in Cyprus to take payment for the. For the weapons. And then he would give the money. He would take, you know, 10 for himself. He was. Mr. 10%. He would take the money and then transfer it to accounts controlled by Oliver north and John Poindexter and Admiral Richard Secord. All from the National Security Council and then used that money to buy arms on the gray market to send to the Contra rebels. It was all illegal. Everybody was indicted. Nobody really was punished, even though they were indicted. And Anant Khashoggi just took his money and smiled and got back on the yacht and steamed around the Mediterranean.

[A]

He's a fixer, among many other things. But who he worked for himself. Who did he most assist in his efforts? I genuinely don't know the answer.

[B]

Probably us.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, he was very, very close to the Saudi royal family. Of course, he was a Saudi. Is a Saudi. I think he's still alive, although he's got to be really old by now. He was very close to the Saudi leadership. He's deceased now. Oh yeah, 2017. Yeah, he's pretty old. Yeah, he wasn't that old. 83, 82. So he was one of these guys like Mark Rich, who would just deal with anybody who had money, anybody who could pay. So he would work with the Israelis, he would work with the Americans, he would work with, you know, anybody, the Libyans, the North Koreans. It just, it didn't make any difference.

[A]

Now there, there's two guys though, because what you're talking about also with Iran Contra ties into that Al Yamama deal that happened, which was around the same area. I'll come back to that. But there's. There's two guys that Epstein comes into contact with upon leaving Bear Stearns, who basically seemed to cut his teeth in arms dealing and I'll say sex trafficking. He probably already had pretty good expertise in money laundering, which he seemed to learn well when he was on Wall Street. But it's Khashoggi and English pronunciation there. And Douglas Lease, I don't know him in Britain, so Douglas Lease, I, I should have had this. There's a guy who did an amazing 20 minute, like documentary on YouTube outlining this whole thing. I want to find it so that we can give him credit. But I had heard about this before. Douglas Lees was a guy that Epstein claimed to have a falling out with later, who was basically like a British fixer and arms dealer who took in Jeffrey. I forget how he got introduced to him, but it was at the same time as Khashoggi. And they started. Then the Iran Contra thing came in and the Al Yamama deal came in in Saudi Arabia. And what happened later is that Epstein's fake passport, which is like Maurice or something, whatever was recovered, which they, which you can deduce from the time it would have had to be provided to be that good by some sort of intelligence service. Is that fair to say?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

In the early 80s. And they were able to afterwards chart with the information we've gotten through files, chart all of Epstein's movements through countries directly related to Saudi. Getting to Saudi Arabia on all the right dates to help in some way for this deal to go through. Is he not working for anyone? Because there's something I'm going to bring up after this. But at that point, is he just a guy who's getting introduced to these other independent contractors and therefore just working for them and it serves whatever purpose it serves? Or do you think, think at that point perhaps he was already working with Mossad or CIA or both?

[B]

Oh, I think the latter, especially Mossad. They're very good at spotting talent. They really are. A lot of thought goes into this kind of thing. And you know, the way. The way his career moved as quickly as it did, the way he accumulated wealth at a fantastic speed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Tells me that. That he connected with an official body. Early on, when I was at the CIA, I never ever heard of Jeffrey Epstein. Never, not once. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but never once did his name ever come up. And you know, for. For a while I was up on the seventh floor spending all day, every day with the director, the deputy director, the deputy Director for operations, the, The Chief of staff, the, you know, executive director, the deputy Executive Director. These are serious people. They're running the CIA. And it never, ever came up, even offhandedly. We talked about a lot.

[A]

I. So, so you did talk about. What was the context of that? Usually he could do anything.

[B]

He could do anything. And he was willing to do anything so long as there was a nice fat paycheck for him at the end.

[A]

Right. I'd asked another guy I know who had. Who was at FBI, if he had come across. He's like, oh, yeah, there's a flowchart on that big time.

[B]

Aliamama was so huge. I mean, everybody knew about Aliya Mama. And Aliya Mama was also very public. The, the.

[A]

What was the nature of that deal again? It was like 100 maybe. I don't want to get the number wrong. It was a little that deep.

[B]

Can we. Can we just. So I can refresh my own memory too. 600,000 barrels.

[A]

So 600,000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. Name of a series of record arms sales by the United Kingdom to Saudi Arabia, paid for by the delivery of up to 600,000, 000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. The prime contractor has been Bay Systems and its predecessor, British Aerospace. The first sales occurred in September 1985. And the most recent contract for 72 Euro fighter Typhoon multi role fighters was signed in August 2006. So this goes on for long.

[B]

Decades.

[A]

Decades, yeah. And part of what Prince Andrew is now being accused of when he was trade envoy for 10 years, is covering up or refusing to share information as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in the Al Yamama deal.

[B]

That's right. So what? See, this is yet another question that we're probably not going to get an answer to. What could Jeffrey Epstein possibly have been able to contribute in the El Yamama deal?

[A]

I've been thinking about almost nothing else for the last seven hours.

[B]

He's not even the right nationality.

[A]

Right. You know, he did kind of have that thing though, where, especially back then when he had the fro going and all that, where you could kind of blend. I'll give him that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But he had us. He had. He had those manipulation skills with people where. And also, John, I don't know, maybe you could speak to this better because you can look at this from an espionage perspective, because you're trained to think like that. But in regular. In the regular world world. Right. Which espionage occurs in the regular world? Guys like him, when you hear him talk, the Coney island accent, the all shucks kind of whatever, just on the surface, it's disarming, right?

[B]

Absolutely. That's all part of the. Part of the thing, part of the delivery, part of the training. Sure.

[A]

There's something about that. It reminded me in a different way of. Of my friend Luis Navia, who was here in episodes 221 and 222. He was like the chief smuggler for the cartels, except the Asian ones. His quote, not mine. Around the world until 2000, when he was taken down an operation journey in Venezuela by like 15 countries. But he. He walks up. You think he's a mix between Francis ford Coppola and Mr. Magoo. He never carried a gun. He wasn't the violent guy. And he'd just be like, oh, what the. And people were like, I can't even. No. Like Luis were holding. He would tell these stories and they're like, no, Luis, we're gonna kill you. And he's like, listen, bro, I. I got places to be. Like, can we go to the bar or something? And they'd be like, this guy. And they just wouldn't.

[B]

Some are unflappable Right? Yeah.

[A]

And it's. I think there's a little something like that in Jeffrey Epstein, where people even from a totally different background, worldview or, you know, political desires, they'd get in a room with them and they're like at the balls on this guy. Could you see that?

[B]

Absolutely, yeah. Although, yeah, I could see that through the first arrest even. But then he had to have concluded that things were so bad in 2019 that this, this was, was over.

[A]

You know why, why do you say that?

[B]

Because he killed himself.

[A]

You do believe he did?

[B]

I do. I believe he killed himself.

[A]

What makes you believe that? Considering all the evidence that they have.

[B]

See, but the evidence. The evidence isn't as clear as I think most people would want it to be. For example, and I based this on my own experience in the federal prison

[A]

system,

[B]

the guards, number one, have their heads up their asses 24 hours a day. The only qualification to be a prison guard in the federal system, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is you have to be working on a ged and no felony convictions. That's it. There's this rule that prisoners can't touch the mail, right? So we have mail call every day at 4 o' clock and the guards are supposed to say your name and hand you your mail. Most of the time the guards didn't do mail call. Prisoners did mail call in violation of the rule of the rules. Any idea why? Because they couldn't read. It was as simple as that. The guards couldn't read. Total incompetence. Basically, yeah. I mean, they literally could not read to call out the names. So number one, they're idiots. Number two, the cameras are always broken. Always. I was a janitor in the chapel when I was in prison. And every day part of my job was to go in there and break up guys having sex in the chapel. In the chapel? Yeah. Because of the Lord. That's what I said. You guys, this is God's house, for heaven's sake. What are you gonna do? But the reason they would all be having sex in the chapel is because they knew that the cameras didn't work. None of the cameras were. The guards are supposed to be doing their rounds every 15 minutes, or if there's a suicide watch situation going on, every eight minutes. And with Epstein, they, it was like two hours before they, they finally made their rounds. Why? Because, number one, they're either jacking off in the, in the guard booth, which happens all the friggin time, or they're sound asleep in the guard booth, or they're on the phone with their girlfriends or they're surfing the Internet. So, no, they don't. They don't make the rounds. And then people are like, oh, but there's a glitch. You know, there's this one second glitch. Yeah, yeah, because every night the cameras reset themselves. They're old cameras. They still use tape, and they tape over yesterday's.

[A]

Then why don't they let the guards talk? Why were the guards like, oh, they

[B]

would never let the. Because the guards are. I just stopped myself from saying a word that's not supposed to be. These guys are so stupid. You know, a guard from the prison where I was emailed me. He saw one of the podcasts and he said, this is exactly why we wanted to kill you. And I said, bring it, tough guy.

[A]

Why he wanted to kill you?

[B]

Yeah, because I say they're morons and retards and this and that, and it's all true. It's true. Learn to read, and then maybe we can have a conversation. I mean, otherwise, put up. Let's go. I'm not afraid of these guys. But this is why everything went wrong. Because what we saw go wrong the night Jeffrey Epstein died goes wrong every night.

[A]

It's the same thing, but so perfectly like that. You think it could line up that way?

[B]

Yes, I saw it. I saw it. For example, not supposed to have microwaves in the housing unit. Unit, right? And then people are like, ah, you know, you bitch long enough, they're gonna. They're gonna put in a microwave. So they put in a microwave. All right? There was a serial killer in my unit, and he took a liking to me inexplicably. So we called him Truck because he was a long distance truck driver and he would murder prostitutes all along his route. He got caught. So. So he would be like, hey, John, he had these, like, rotten black little nubs for teeth. John, I saved you a seat in the TV room. Watch the Steelers game. I'm like, thanks, Truck. Or hey, there's a new classic rock station. I know you like classic rock at 1600am thank you, Truck. Truck Hated. Hated. Hated pedophiles. Hated that them fully a third of the prison is pedophiles. Because remember, they're all at the low security level, right? So there's like this rule in prison. No pedophiles are allowed in the TV room. And pedophiles aren't even allowed in their own room unless it's to sleep. Okay? So if you're a pedophile and it's the middle of the day, get the out of the room. Well, there's a pedophile in Israel room. And the guy's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He won't stop talking. Well, another thing is pedophiles aren't allowed to have any visitors in their rooms. You can't have another pedophile because they're going to talk about pedophilia, which is what they do. They relive their crimes every single day. They like, they can't help themselves. So this pedophile is just yapping away and Truck is getting angrier and angrier and angrier. And finally the pedophile lays down for a nap. Truck had gone to the commissary and he bought a bottle of olive oil which is $2.85. You can, because everybody cooks in their cells.

[A]

Plastic or glass?

[B]

Plastic. So he pours the olive oil into a bowl and he microwaves it. So it's boiling. Like literally it's bubbling, boiling scalding oil. And he pours it on the pedophile's face while he's sleeping. And the guy, the scream, I'll never forget the scream. And his skin is just like dropping off of his skull. And pedophile got a pedophile. The pedophile got, you know, medevac to Pittsburgh. They landed a helicopter in the yard and medevacked him to Pittsburgh. Truck got another 10 years onto the 40 he was already doing for being a serial killer.

[A]

It was only doing 40 as a serial killer.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

He had a great lawyer.

[B]

Yeah, he did. But the point is that there are rules for everything and nobody pays any attention to them. And nothing works the way it's supposed to.

[A]

Then why does the Justice Department come out and say things like, oh, here's all the evidence. And then they show that they didn't put all the evidence out. And I'm just talking about like that.

[B]

But then that proves my point because people are idiots at every single level. It doesn't matter if you went to Harvard Law School, you can still be an idiot.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And another thing too. This is a lesson that government officials, especially senior government officials, just cannot learn. And it is that the COVID up of the crime is always worse than the crime.

[A]

Oh yeah, always. Lie begets 10 more lies begets 100 more lies.

[B]

And Richard Nixon didn't resign because of Watergate. Richard Nixon resigned because of the COVID up of Watergate. I think it's the same situation here.

[A]

All right, well, let me flip it around on you. I have always Thought still do think that Jeffrey Epstein is dead.

[B]

I.

[A]

And I feel pretty comfortable.

[B]

I spoke to his brother recently. I said, is he dead? And he's like, he's dead. I. I identified the body. I'm just.

[A]

I mean, I spoke to O.J. i didn't speak to him, but he said he didn't do it.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, he identified the body. He said, I think he was murdered. And that's a debate, you know, that he wanted to have with me. But he said, yeah, he's dead. I identified his body. I took it to the crematorium.

[A]

Joseph Scott Morgan, friend of mine, broke this down. He's a medical death investigator. He broke it down, like, scientifically, with all the bones, the highway bone and all that, about what would not make sense about it being suicide and therefore being murder. Obviously, Dr. Michael Boden, who's like the goat with all this. He's the goat, also does not think that he killed himself. So it's possible. It's at least possible that he was killed.

[B]

It's possible. Definitely. Absolutely.

[A]

Now, I do think he's dead. But again, this whole thing is just like you. You almost have to open your mind to everything that's crazy. So I'll ask it like this. If you were tasked, not that you ever would be, it's hypothetical, people, but if you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing, to wherever he's gonna go to get facial surgery and live out his life, how would you do it?

[B]

Oh, you would take out the body. Whether it's a. A body double or, you know, made out of silicone or whatever, take it out in full view of everybody. That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

[A]

They did do that. And there was a New York Post reporter, very ready to go, and there

[B]

was the conversation about the Earth, which I've heard a thousand million times.

[A]

Those ones I'm always a little skeptical of, because they can doctor them, of course.

[B]

Well, it's like this stupid, obviously, AI generated picture of him just like, walking down the street in Tel Aviv.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that one's not real. But I'm saying, like, so the recipe you just gave me, though, is in line. It's not to say that's what happened.

[B]

That's what they did. Yeah, sure.

[A]

Yeah. Because I had another guy in here, Kendice Gibson, who's worked in media forever, and he's like, the idea that a New York Post reporter on an early Saturday morning in August, was that ready to go immediately after this?

[B]

Yeah. Sketchy. And another thing too is if I wanted, if I wanted to initiate a cover up of this scale, I would cremate whatever it is I took out on that gurney because otherwise you'd be. You'd be having people say, okay, let's just settle this. We're going to dig them up, up, we're going to get a court order, we're going to exhume the body, we're going to do DNA testing and make sure that this is Jeffrey Epstein. Can't do that. Cremated.

[A]

I don't know anymore, John. I really don't.

[B]

I have to tell you, I was jaded anyway because of my own personal experience. But now it's like I don't believe anything anymore. Not at face value, anyway.

[A]

Have you had your, like any kind of moment where you think back to a bunch of stuff, different moments and visions of like, things you did that you were certain were because of one thing in one way and one person and one mission that you're now like, wait a minute, why was that guy there too?

[B]

I think about that kind of thing all the time. Yeah, I do. And in some cases it's taken years for me to finally conclude, like, oh, crap, that's what that was about. I've thought about this Rockefeller thing a million times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I've told you the story. It was the one and only time I ever received a phone call from Colin Powell. I told you this story.

[A]

You told the Internet in the new voice as well.

[B]

Yeah, and in the new voice, but I think about that a lot too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and, and I remember when it first happened, I remember thinking, this wasn't your fault. Don't let it bother you. And it's bothered me for decades.

[A]

It's human lives. You're a real person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The story was that Colin Powell asked how to target someone in Iraq. John said what it was, gave him

[B]

his address, and then he found out

[A]

eight of them got bombed later.

[B]

There was one time, dozens of cruise missiles, you know, vaporize the building.

[A]

Every time I watch that clip, I think of the fucking Mark Wahlberg line. The Departed. Yeah, it can send a fucking cruise middle missile up the ass of a camel from a thousand yards away. Thousand miles away.

[B]

Not to get too far off the topic, but the assassination of. I'm in a Zawahidi, the number two in Al Qaeda, you know, we shot him with a, with a drone Launched missile. Right. The missile had no warhead on it. Right. We did that on purpose because we didn't want to kill the women and children inside the apartment. He came out onto the balcony to smoke a cigarette, fired the missile at him. It went completely through his body. A missile went completely through his body and with no warhead, there was no explosion. Can you imagine cleaning up that mess?

[A]

I appreciate the responsibility on that one. At least they didn't hit a wedding.

[B]

Oh, we did.

[A]

It's a little better than the Obama hit every.

[B]

Every wedding during Obama.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that was interesting. But the thing I had wanted to bring it to when I was bringing up the early origins of Jeffrey Epstein with that Al Yamama deal is obviously the point there is that there is some sort of relationship with intelligence. Intelligences.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

At the time. And there is a tweet.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Send it to you, chief. Yep, he has it up. So this is from Ronald Reagan about Iran Contra. Okay. In his new auto. And this is from back in the day obviously because he's dead. In the new autobiography, former President Ronald Reagan says Israel was the instigator and prime mover in the Iran Contra affair. He blames the Israelis for misleading him into believing he was selling arms to so called Iranian moderates when some quote, may have had links to the Ayatollah Khamenese government and were trying to obtain weapons under false pretenses, unquote. Israel began the arms deals with Iran when it contacted Robert McFarlane, Reagan's national security Advisor to propose the first sale and continued to press the secret dealings thereafter. Reagan writes in An American Life that Prime Minister Shimon Perez was behind the proposal. The former President says Iranian middlemen endorsed by Israel helped quote, win the freedom of three hostages, unquote. Reagan adds, but the same middlemen behaved at times like bait and switch con men with the sole intentions of profiteering. So with Iran Contra they were trying to get weapons to the Sandinistas in South America and they were trying to do it by financing 150 million dollar deal to with through Iran when we weren't supposed to be dealing with post revolution Iran in the 80s. That's like the very, very high level version of it.

[B]

But it says down here too, Patrick Alley says that that Epstein was, was roommates with with Stanley Pottinger. He was in up to his neck in Iran Contra. Roommates, partners and roommates with J. Stanley Pottinger who helped ship weapons to Iran prior to Iran Contra.

[A]

Can we read this, Steve?

[B]

Good grief.

[A]

So according to his Former friend, the journalist Jesse Kornbluth. Who's Epstein up there? Ass. Yep. In pause in the mid-1980s, Epstein said he worked. He worked for governments to recover money looted by African dictators and occasionally subcontracted to those same autocrats to help them hide their stolen money. A source who spoke with journalist Vicky Ward from vanity fair. The O3 piece said one of Epstein's clients was the late Saudi arms dealer Khashoggi, a middleman in the AM in the Iran Contra scandal who helped smuggle cash for the Marcos family out of the Philippines. In 1988, Khashoggi was arrested in Switzerland. That's hard to do. For concealing assets. And later faced fraud and racketeering charges in the U.S. he was later acquitted. Must have a great attorney. That year he sold his 200. He sold his 282 foot yacht to the Sultan of Brunei who soon flipped it to Donald Trump. And let's go to the next one right here. Epstein was fired from Bear Stearns around the time he met Douglas Lee's who I was telling you about. Epstein then started a short lived partnership with J. Stanley Pottinger, a former U.S. department of justice official who was investigated for his role in dealing arms. The Islamic Pro Republic of Iran. The Iran Contra affair appears to be a pivotal moment in Epstein's life. Between 81 and 86, the Reagan administration covertly sold arms to Iran which was at war with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. So they were selling to the Iranians they didn't like because they liked Saddam Hussein even less.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My question is, is why is he. This didn't wasn't clocking to me at first because I looked at this very quickly before we got on air. Why is Reagan saying that that benefited the Israelis when the Israelis really don't like the Iranian regime? Like that has always been their big bug.

[B]

But the Iranians back then didn't have a nuclear program and it was Iraq that was the real like immediate threat to Israel because the Iraqis did have a nuclear program and a biological weapons program and a chemical weapons program. And they were working with a Belgian inventor named Gerald Bull to, to the. The Iraqis were to build something called the, the big gun. This is one of the very first things I learned about my first week at the CIA. Gerald Bull created this, this giant gun that was so big you just had to sort of lean the barrel up against the side of a mountain, point it in essentially the right direction and then fire it and it would send a shell as far as a missile would go. And nobody wanted to buy it. They're like, what are we going to do with this giant gun? Right. It's as big as a house. And so the Iraqis said, we'll take it. And so the Iraqis bought this thing. And before it kept cracking. When Bull would test it, it kept cracking. So he came up with this idea to put what he called a condom on the inside of the gun to smooth the barrel and to keep the. The reverberation from the shot from cracking it. But before he could test it with the condom inside, the Israelis assassinated him.

[A]

They're pretty good at that.

[B]

Yeah. Gerald Bull and his giant gun. I remember saying to my boss, like I say, I was only on the job for a week. I said, this is a joke, right? And he said, no, no, this is deadly serious. It's a giant gun. They have to lean it up on the side of the mountain to fire it.

[A]

I'm picturing that thing in Game of Thrones they were trying to take the dragon out with just like, come on, baby, let's go. All right, so you had always maintained that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad access agent. Do you think I wanted to bring this up first so we at least had the context, what Ronald Reagan said about this. Probably his handler said about it, because I don't think he was all there by the time he wrote that book.

[B]

Yeah, not a chance.

[A]

So. So do you think that in something like that, if, in fact the Israelis had an interest in seeing Iraq be neutralized more, do you think that this is the prime type of situation where he could have been recruited at that time?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

Do you think that's what happened?

[B]

You know, when you're. When you put all of these episodes together in a line that would make sense to me. Yes.

[A]

Next question. This is a deal where the CIA is running a lot of ops as well, meaning they have to know he's involved with this.

[B]

You know, that's a good question. He would have had to have bumped up against CIA ops people. Or even if not CIA ops people, NSC people who were in up to their necks in this thing.

[A]

National Security Council.

[B]

National Security Council, you know, the likes of. Of, as I said, Admiral Poindexter, Richard Secord, Oliver north, all these guys. So even if. If you're not dealing directly with agency people, although you probably would be, you're going to at least be dealing with White House people.

[A]

Now, you had said earlier you had never heard Jeffrey Epstein mention at CIA. You did hear Khashoggi mentioned, though.

[B]

A bunch all the time.

[A]

Shogi was also like extremely public for. Throughout a lot of his life.

[B]

That's right. If

[A]

seven people from the NSC and CIA directly dealt or at least bumped into Jeffrey Epstein during said mission, Iran Contra, which was a cover up, they were covering up something they were doing.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Is it reasonable to say that the compartmentalization structure of espionage bureaucracy in the United States government would mean that those people would chart this, maybe have it in their own files, but not necessarily share it with anybody?

[B]

And I can tell you exactly how that would play out. If I were one of the agency guys involved and I run into this American guy who's in the middle of it and he's not with us, and he's not with the White House people, then who the hell is he with? So what I would have done is I first would have gone to the White House people and say, who's this American, this Epstein guy? And then I would have gone to the FBI and say, listen, just so you know, we're doing this highly compartmentalized top secret operation. You don't need to know what it's about, but you do need to know that there is a private citizen involved who's an American, just so you can start a file on him just in case this is going to be a counterintelligence problem for us in the future. It doesn't look like that was ever done. I can't imagine why that was going

[A]

to be my next question. What would be some.

[B]

He had to have had protection at the White House. He had to, at that time, way back then, sometime between 1981 and 1980, you know, four or five.

[A]

All right, wait a second. That would make sense for a second. So if he has protection at the White House, maybe through a technical intermediary like Oliver north or something like that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

They're doing this under the table. It's a crime.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he's gonna be. It's more like the mob, like, all right, I'm not saying nothing. I know who that guy is. But I can't tell people I know who that guy is, because then they'll say, how do you know who that guy is? And now we got a pun problem.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's right. See, you know, I had never thought of that.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

But now that we're playing it out. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

[A]

This is why you're here. So I had always. Again, my mind is very open on all this. I am not married to Any of this stuff what I had always thought just very 30,000 foot view in the air. And some people have misheard me on recent episodes on how I explain this. So I need to do a better job. I'd always looked at it like, okay, he's working with Mossad or. And you have to say this, or with other intelligence organizations in Israel, because they're not the only one.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Like Jonathan Pollard wasn't with Mossad, he was with the military.

[B]

That's right, it was military.

[A]

Same shit.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Different name.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But Mossad's an easy way to put it.

[B]

You know, we have what, 18 different intelligence agencies, right.

[A]

You would think one or two might be enough, but you'd think. But I always thought he worked with them. And then the thing that really shifted things for Jeffrey Epstein in his timeline was The, I believe, September 2002 flight with Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker, which made Page Six. Prior to then, Jeffrey Epstein was known as a New York City socialite and not known publicly. He was known on the socialite circles which, which by the way, when someone's known as a socialite in New York, red flags should be flying. But he's, he's a, in this case, a good spy. He's doing all his sick, he's going to the White House 18 times, no one knows who the fuck the guy is and everything. And then all of a sudden, boom, flight happens, Page Six story. Then he has to do the interview with Vicky Ward in March 2003. He's out there. No coincidence in some ways that his case starts coming up in 05 in Florida because he's a known guy in some respects. And so my thought always was, and if I were a betting man, I would have said it was probably late 90s when Clinton was still in office. My bet always was that CIA was asleep at the wheel. Maybe because of the compartmentalization we just talked about. And you know, then they probably find out maybe it's 1996, I'll put a year on it. 97. They find out so far this guy's been to the Clinton White House 15 times. Maybe they're like, who the fuck, yeah, who is this guy in the British lady whose dad ran the Daily Mirror and he started all the fucking peer reviews and runs all our kids textbooks in America and got buried on the Mount of Olives and fucking Israel five days after he got pushed off a boat. Why is this motherfucker coming in with the guy who's Taking blowjobs from the fucking intern.

[B]

You know, imagine the stories that you could piece together if you had unfettered access just to the visitor logs, just to that.

[A]

Uh huh, right? So someone, Linda at Langley, right, goes, wait a minute, we got a problem. Takes it up the chain of command, suddenly says, boss, I don't know who the fuck this guy is. They then take 10 minutes to look into it and they're like, oh my God, he's running a fucking pedal ring at the behest of the Victoria's Secret guy in fucking New York City. And holy. He's involved with Iran Contra. He's fucking working with Mossad. He seems to be an intelligence dealer. The fucking wife, who's not really the wife's a problem. She's connected up the ass to all this shit. Oh my God, they got dirt on everyone, including the current President. This is a crisis the likes of which if we outed this, everything could fall. Sounds very familiar today, by the way. So they say in that moment now, you know, I proposed a New Jersey solution. I'm like, just fucking blow his brains out, right? You know, say to Mossad, what are you gonna do about it?

[B]

I know a lot of guys that would do that.

[A]

Right. Okay, good. I don't know where they were at this time. You know, we could have called up fucking Vinnie and Rocco.

[B]

They didn't take care of catching exactly what I was thinking.

[A]

That's right. But they didn't do that. And this is what I just always posited. And it's a theory, I can't say like, yo, I got evidence this happened. But I'm like, they looked at it and they said, oh shit. And they go to the guy and they go, all right, you know that we know that you know that we know that you know that we know what you're doing here. And you know that we know that you know that we know that you fucking have been doing this a long time and you could take down the whole system if we tell people about that. And so you know that we know that you know that we know that now we're in a Mexican stand off. And so here's the deal. You're gonna have to keep doing whatever it is the you do. But now you pay a tax, you're on our soil, you're going to give us some information too. And so now what, John? What did he FOIA he FOIA the years 2000 to 2014 pretty interesting to me. I'll say, am I crazy or am I crazy? Crazy.

[B]

No It's a. It's a great catch. And it also would tend to implicate both the Bush and the Clinton administrations.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Sorry. Bush and Obama.

[A]

Wait, now you look. Oh, from the years he. Foia. Okay, I thought. I thought you're talking about the backtrack of what they didn't catch now.

[B]

The backtrack. Now you've convinced me that this started even earlier than I thought.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was thinking Clinton and it's not. It's earlier, it's earlier.

[A]

There were some files missing. Two.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Not. Not just the two and a half or three million. I mean, they're in there. But did you see the chart of the years that they're really missing from? Can we pull up that tweet thief, just so people can see this? I have to rethink everything. I have to rethink things that in the past I would have said where I feel okay about this take. And now I have to look at it and say, julian, that was a ice cold. Scalding ice cold, if you will take. And this is just one of these things. Like it is what it is. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is a data dump. I'm going to simplify this for you, John, because there's some more specific details here, but it is showing basically, like, if you will, a percentage of data sets from the Epstein files that are presented over the years. And we can see that there is a massive gap and basically, like you in the chart, if you will, between the years of 1999 to 2001, when, among other things, you had the tech bubble blow up. You had. I believe that's 99 is when the Lewinsky impeachment trials happening. You have the election of 2000, the highly contested election of 2000, John Kiriakou, where, I don't know, someone Google this for me. But I think there was a big point of contention in Palm beach county as it pertains to that election. And that's where one Jeffrey Epstein did happen to reside. Just. Just looking at some things here. Yep. And then in 2001, you have the worst terrorist attack in United States history in New York and D.C. and in the skies over that fell over Pennsylvania with United 93. And suddenly all these files are missing. But, John, we did get an email from 2003 that slipped through the cracks.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, you haven't seen this one?

[B]

No, I haven't seen it.

[A]

So there's an email thief. Boom. He's got it. He's all over it. This from 2003, someone named Ed Epstein sends an email to one Gmax Gan Maxwell saying, Any interest in being on the Shadow Commission on 911? The membership list is secret. She responds, thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the Shadow Commission.

[B]

A shadow Commission. It takes my breath away. Oh my God. This should be the banner headline.

[A]

What, what do you make of that?

[B]

I don't even know what to say. I mean, nobody believes what the 911 Commission concluded anyway. That's right. But the fact that there was a Shadow Commission with a secret membership list and Ghislaine Maxwell talked about it in 2003.

[A]

Why? That's what I want to know.

[B]

Good question.

[A]

And it's like this goes back to a compartmentalization thing too, John, because what we do have on the record that we know happens happened is somewhere, I think it was like July 6, 2001, maybe like August 11. The dates might be slightly off. There are two meetings that occur at the White House, one of them with Condoleezza Rice, where CIA sent literally Tenant Kofer Black and some dudes who are still like Rich Blee, who's still, I think undercover. That's. I think that's a fake name if I remember correctly, where they tell them in a tax coming. So like when you look at the whole like, well, CIA definitely did. The CIA had a lot of incompetence because they didn't share information with FBI. And there's, there's a lot of issues there and they deserve a ton of blame. But that was the one thing in this that was always like the canary in the coal mine for me where I'm like, well it couldn't have been that like they, they had the leadership warning about it. So yeah, they did. You know, maybe it's the White House, I don't know. But there's also advanced knowledge that we know about from the Saudis who have always been covered up and we know about with the five guys from Assad in Fort Lee who were videotaping the thing who were sent back to Israel on November 6, 2001.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

And I know a guy from the office that arrested them. And to this day he wonders why the. They didn't get why the. So when I see stuff like this, I'm like, how many countries are involved in this thing?

[B]

God, this is bad.

[A]

And is it even countries versus is it this trilateral elite just in general, like everyone wants to just immediately, immediately say it's Israel, it's Saudi Arabia, it's the CIA. How about all the above who are working for all the above. Possible.

[B]

Possible. Yes, yes. Incredible. Sickening, I think is how what I first said when we sat down and started talking. This just makes me sick.

[A]

I don't even know what to do with them.

[B]

Gmax.

[A]

Gmax redacted.

[B]

She must have BCC'd him. Jeffrey. Why would it be in the Epstein files? Why would it be on his computer? I don't know. She BCC'd him. The membership list secret. She's not even. Was she an American at the time?

[A]

I don't. Did she ever become an American officially?

[B]

I don't know. I wonder.

[A]

Like we talk about this small group, you know, you got the Commerce Secretary and Transition Chair who just. Yes. Eli Maxwell is a naturalized American citizen, born in France to British and French parents and raised in England. She moved to the United States in 91 following her father's death. She holds triple citizenship. Being a citizen of the us, UK and France. Makes sense.

[B]

Can say that again.

[A]

Yeah. So.

[B]

But not Israel. Not interesting. Yeah,

[A]

Man. You have a guy like Lutnick who runs the transition team as the Commerce Secretary, always in Trump's ear, advising him. Shares a wall with Jeffrey Epstein for technically 21 years, but he claims it was 14 because he didn't move in till 05. Who knows if even that's true? Openly lies on camera. Just drop blood with this dramatic story about the first and last time time I ever spent time with that man. And then he said so I never dealt with him in business, socially, or even for philanthropy. And what he was really doing was remembering all the things he did deal with them on. Because now we saw it on the emails of what it was. But the guy has, as of the time of this recording on Friday afternoon, he has not resigned yet. Still doing his job. And also we find out his sister was one of the founding members of the TerraMar project, which was like Ellen's post Jeffrey conviction post, Jeffrey's never gonna marry me project that she did. Pet project that has something to do with the oceans that she did a TED Talk on.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Do these people just all like each other?

[B]

They must. They must. I'm glad I don't know people like this.

[A]

You don't?

[B]

I don't. No. No. I would feel dirty all the time.

[A]

Well, there's a guy in the middle for. Well, actually, John, we can't forget this. Do you see what Hillary Clinton said the other day?

[B]

Oh, no. What'd she say?

[A]

She said that they have. Can we play the video Deep. I did it in my solo episode. It's coming out two days before this. But it's worth repeating because again we got the picture of Gan in the row looking at Chelsea coming down the aisle at her wedding. We know about the 25 to 27 flights on the Lolita Express. Yep. We got images of Clinton all with Epstein. Obviously the Clintons are their whole thing as well on the side that doesn't even have to do with Epstein. We know about the 18 known visits that happened to the White House. And yet he'll. Let's, let's run it. The Hillary Clinton says this when asked about the links between the Clinton and the Epstein's and Epstein regret the links that there have been.

[B]

You know, we have no links.

[A]

We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some rides on the airplane for his charitable work. For charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him. Did you ever meet Maxwell? I did on a few occasions.

[B]

And thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative. So it to me is not something

[A]

that is really at the heart of what this matter is about.

[B]

They are accused and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women.

[A]

That should be the focus. And we are more than happy to say what we know, which is very limited and totally unrelated to their behavior or their crimes. And we want to do it in public because let's make this transparent. The survivors deserve that, the public deserves that. But God,

[B]

they just lie with straight faces.

[A]

Straight faces. How does a guy like Jeffrey Epstein get so involved with, with Bill Clinton clearly before he got into office?

[B]

Yeah, it's a good question. Could he have spotted Bill Clinton that early on in the process? Just another governor was a governor who

[A]

was letting Barry Seal fly coke planes in the MENA with no questions asked.

[B]

Yeah. Although I always believed he was told, hey, we're going to do this and you're going to say it's okay. And he did.

[A]

What makes you think that?

[B]

Because that would have been a federal operation. I mean we all knew, everybody knows now that the CIA was allowing cocaine into the country, making its way to Los Angeles. So it would have been federal. It's not up to a governor to say, no, no, you can't, can't, you can't do this. It's like, shut the up. We're doing it,

[A]

we're gonna do it and you'll become president.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Exactly what we say.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's just always funny when Hill, when Hillary. Not funny, but it's kind of sick when Hillary talks about, like, women and victims and stuff like that. And then you think about the things that both of them are actually accused of. It's like, come on. That's what I mean. The political opportunism of this. That's. I'll call out all day. It's like, nobody gets a win here.

[B]

No, no. There are no good guys in this whole thing. And then, you know, just makes me feel that much worse that Virginia Giuffre took her life. I can't even. I can't even fathom the pressure that she was under, you know, and she kind of cracked in slow motion. Remember, weeks in advance of her death, she said she had been, like, hit by a school bus or something. And I don't remember the whole. The whole story, but she kind of cracked up right in front of our eyes.

[A]

Yeah. It's. It's suspicious. And apparently also does have to be said her husband did beat her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As well.

[B]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

She had confided that in. In Tara pal Mary, who's a journalist that she worked with. And so once her family released photos of her from towards the end of her life that included, like, standing photos of her with bruises all over her. Her. Tara said that she did. She had promised, obviously, not to say anything, but she's like, now that Virginia is deceased and her family has released these photos, I do feel like I should also reveal that her husband beat her all the time. Doesn't mean she didn't. There's not something fishy there.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, she. She.

[B]

Yeah, this is bad.

[A]

She went after a lot of people, and I just. You know, it's like these people, they see all these things 20, 30, 40 years ahead their cute little Bilderberg meetings, but they couldn't see the Internet coming.

[B]

Yeah, right. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

It's kind of weird, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a guy that's been at the middle of all this. Steve Bannon, who I mentioned Henry Abbott earlier. Shout out to Henry for turning me on to this. Back in 2021, 2022, all turned out to be true. It was all true. Steve Bannon goes way back with Leon Black and all those guys. You can trace it back to the 80s, and you can trace back the earliest investments in things that became Cambridge Analytica in 1992. So they were already thinking about how to influence people through fear all the way back then, but they weren't thinking about the very tools they were building being used against them to have the public be Able to discuss things in the open, including the. They do behind closed doors. Imagine why. That doesn't make sense to me though. Like, what am I missing there?

[B]

You know, one of my favorite movies is, is a 1970s sci fi film called Soylent Green you mentioned last time. Yep, I did. And Soylent Green takes place in the, the. In the future. It was filmed in like 1972 or something, and I think it takes place in 2015. And cars, you know, float on the air and the world is overpopulated and people can't afford food. And it gives you a pretty good depiction of. Of a world that's on the brink of just falling apart. The only thing that they just got completely and totally wrong was every time Charlton Heston, the main character who's a policeman, every time he needed to make a call, he'd pull over to the side of the road, go into a phone booth and make the call. I guess there are just some things people don't see.

[A]

That's a good way to put it.

[B]

You know, I remember being. I was in a station in the Middle East. I was there on temporary duty for, for a week, week and a half, and there was a tech team in from headquarters and they were installing the first ever email program. And so everybody in the station was gathered around this computer and they're showing us that you. You click on this little button that had an envelope on it, and then you write in somebody's name and hit refresh and their actual name pops up. And then you can just write them a. Like a letter. It's called electronic mail email. And the station chief says, wait a minute, wait a minute. Are you saying that my people can have access to anybody they want? They just write this electronic mail and hit send? And the guy said, yes. And the chief said, I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. And then he sort of made this edict that there would be none of this email in his station. Sometimes you just don't see it. You just can't. Your brain can't comprehend it. And maybe that's what we're looking at here with, with our 2020 hindsight.

[A]

I don't understand, though, in the 2010s, once it was a real thing. Yeah.

[B]

Why didn't they adapt?

[A]

Yeah, because it's like, yes, obviously these people were talking in a way that they didn't think the DOJ would ever release their emails to the public. Right. But you have people in 2021, 2022, 2023, keeping their jobs and Saying, no, I regret my relationship, but I didn't really know him. And now it comes out that they did. And yet maybe I'm thinking of this too simply and I'm the farthest thing from a lawyer, but discovery exists. If you get sued civilly and stuff, you get access to everything and that can get leaked. So why, it often does. Right? So these people being so arrogant in to be like, ah, no one will ever know that I had 11, 500 emails with the dude, so I'll keep my job at Goldman Sachs.

[B]

Just incredible. Yeah, it's crazy what goes through somebody's mind. Like she knew how many emails. I mean, she at least in her mind had a ballpark figure. Kathy Rummeler, Kathy Rumler, how many emails she exchanged with, with Jeffrey Epstein. And did she think that by not telling the C suite at Goldman Sachs that it just wasn't going to be a problem, that this was never going to come to light? I mean, the Guy died in 2019, it's 2026. And it never occurred to her, you know, maybe I should try to get ahead of this, this is going to be a problem. Or was she that arrogant to think that she could just weather this? And you know, if you're the CEO of, if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs, you have to be saying, rumbler. What was she thinking?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he should have done that though, three years ago.

[B]

Yeah, he should have. Yes.

[A]

Just cut ties with these people. You know, like when it, when it, when they're in that kind of position, it gets weird when he's like friends with, with or associating with guys in academia and stuff like that because you're like, well, you know, funders come in and fund stuff. And now we see a lot of. That was a lot closer than that.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

To be clear. But like when you're a lawyer at the Obama Justice Department, like the lawyer or in the Obama White House, and you have that kind of access and you were dealing with this guy a ton who you know is a spy now, you have to know you're going to be fried in this. It's. There's just no way to look at it.

[B]

And if you've got the kind of money that the general counsel at Goldman Sachs would have, then you hire a reputation recovery firm. Right. And they're out there reputation.com for, you know, average people like you and me or Peggy Siegel. Or Peggy Siegel and get ahead of this. And I don't think anybody thought to do that.

[A]

They did not. And it's very clear that Jeffrey maintained all of his power, or I should say almost all of his powerful contexts, including new ones post conviction.

[B]

You know, that's the oddest thing to me was that conviction. This is a child sex crime conviction as entry level as it was for him because of the sweetheart deal. You think that that would send people screaming from the room. And it didn't. It didn't set him back at all. He just jumped right in, in, right back in. No problem.

[A]

What do you think the angle with Bannon was? Looking at this because Bannon leaves the White House with Trump after he's fired, and then from all the texts we can see, which are cringe. The emails we can see, he is essentially becoming that PR guy.

[B]

Yeah, he is.

[A]

For Jeffrey Epstein. He even has an email in there where he's like, you have a jihad against you. The likes of which I've never seen, and I've seen a of lot of. And then, you know, they're following up emails on here where he's sending Jeffrey articles and saying, well, this makes you sound like you're contrite and, you know, talking about all this stuff. And then he films them on camera for what was reported to be up to 18 hours worth of footage. We have like two to four hours of it or something through the files. You know, this is a guy, Bannon, who, like I said, goes way back to the 80s with all these people. Is he. Is he a spy? Like, I've always believed that. Do you think that's plausible?

[B]

Plausible? Sure. Likely. I can't imagine why. Because at the position that he was counselor to the President, he would have been vetted. Should have been vetted nine ways from Sunday. He should have been. The FBI should have been all over this course. You know my position on the FBI, so.

[A]

But Howard, you say that Howard L. The Commerce Advisor, Leon Block's Leon Black's son, works in the administration. Like These are vetting 101.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. You're right. Sure, it's plausible. I'm trying to think what the hook would be. Be what. What the. What the vulnerability would be to recruit him. Because Bannon's almost a billionaire, right? He owns the rights to Seinfeld and a whole bunch of other things he's worth. The last I saw, several years ago, he was worth $750 million. So you're not going to recruit him with money

[A]

unless he was recruited before he got it.

[B]

Unless. Okay, that's a good point.

[A]

He always ends up in places that's the thing, he's always in the right place.

[B]

He's long been in the right place at the right time.

[A]

There was one phone call I was on with a guy who was talking my ear off back in 2022. That another one of those like shiver up the spines. Because this was after I had read the Abbott piece. I was onto this with Steve Bannon and this dude was listening off a whole bunch of things and he starts talking about this guy Brock, Mighty Ducks Brock guy. Can we Google that? Brock Pierce? Brock Pierce. You know about Brock Pierce?

[B]

No.

[A]

Brock Pierce is worth a ton of money. Made it. He was in that Mighty Ducks actor ends up, I'm gonna really shorten this up for people. But he ends up in a partnership business wise with this guy who ends up having these parties out in Hollywood where they, the, the. The guy is, is raping boys, underage boys, my God. And that ends up coming out. And then they all flee to Spain. That guy ends up getting arrested. He stands, I think he stands trial or makes a deal or something and then eventually gets permission to leave the country for some sort of surgery and never comes back and gets a new name.

[B]

Oh my goodness.

[A]

Rock. Because. Can you pull up as Wikipedia Div? Because now it's in there, there and this is starting to like break open. I've been telling people to pull on this, but go down deep. Brock ends up up a little more. More, more, more, more. Right? And up a little more. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Brock ends up founding in 2001. Now I'm going right off Wikipedia people. He founded Internet Gaming Entertainment Payment, a company that pioneered the MMORPG currency selling services industry. Between 04 and 05, IGE spent more than $25 million buying out seven smaller competitors, including four auction platforms and many fan and content sites. In. In 05, Pierce estimated the IGE accounted for about 50 of this online market in the U.S. which has about $500 million in annual volume. Pierce brought in Steve Bannon, formerly of Goldman Sachs and Breitbart News, to seek venture capital, and a deal was made in February 2006, yielding 60 million, of which Pierce took away 20 million for a minority stake. The next year, the company faced a class action lawsuit. With no assets, the company failed and Pierce was conveniently forced out. Now go down to the Epstein section. In February 2026, an investigation by the Kiev Independent and newly released US Department of Justice documents on Jeffrey Epstein reported that the files included an email in which a man identified as Pierce, described as a co founder of Tether, told Epstein that a boat in Antigua full of amazing Ukraine's finest was waiting for him. A separate analysis of the same document released by the crypto news outlet Proto stated that in 2012, after Eptine asked Pierce to take take photos and find me a present during a trip to Moscow, Kievan Odessa, which is where they would source a lot of underage women and traffic them, by the way. Pierce emailed Epstein's dozens of photographs of Ukrainian woman named Anastasia and closed the message by writing that Ukraine is now my favorite country. And in another email, he invited Epstein to join him on a boat in Antigua, once again full of Ukraine's finest. This is stuff that is now new online that I was told in 2002 directly about, about this. And just conveniently this guy, before he even blows up, he was a Mighty Ducks actor before he blows up as a businessman. And before like this person I was on the phone with also told me about his Jeffrey Epstein connections as well. Before that, he just happens to bring in Steve Bannon to this video game community that also. Then this is where it gets above my pay grade. But it has. And they've pulled that mic around because I want you to say what you're going to say, but it has to do with. With moving money online. That's like through video game coins that can be laundered into other stuff. Maybe people out there can help me, but Thief. Go ahead.

[B]

I was gonna say because it was

[A]

a big thing that China had first gotten involved with with the video game Runescape, they'd sell in game currency for real money. But this is weird. And I'm only going to bring this

[B]

point up for you to pull on

[A]

if you want this whole conspiracy that they keep seeing all this activity from Epstein's account on Fortnite in all these video games.

[B]

Just think that's a weird little connection

[A]

now to know that Bannon was involved with that.

[B]

Just saying.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, that's crazy. It's weird. I don't know, man. And he's still very much an insider in Washington. He's got his podcast, he's got a house on Capitol Hill. The war room. Yep. Yeah.

[A]

What do we do? Do you just blow it all up?

[B]

You know what? We're gonna have to. We're gonna have to, like, even if it means taking to the streets, demand the release of all the remaining documents. We have to. They have to be released. First of all, the law mandates that they be released. It's not at the Pam Body or anybody else. They have to be Released. That's the law. And then we need to rely on people like you to go through these things and make sense of them.

[A]

How about all the code words they're using?

[B]

Yeah, see, now that's another thing. See, and this is we're weakened by the fact that we can't charge people with crimes. You know, imagine how easy, how much easier it would be to say, look, you're involved in this. We've got a conspiracy charge hanging over you. You're going to do at least five years. Or you can tell us what all these code words mean and walk us through this one step at a time, and then we'll figure out, you know, something a little easier. But the DOJ can't do that.

[A]

There's one that's used in there that Deef and I were looking for at this morning. And you know, your brain runs in a lot of different directions where it says jerky. And there was a guy who did a nice breakdown of this De. Let me give you this, dude. I actually have it right here. So I want to give him a shout out. This is Dr. G explains on YouTube. And what I liked is he didn't he. Even when it was obvious where it's like, all right, we can definitely make some sort of like this type of conclusion there. He didn't. He just reported the emails. But the way they. They refer to, we need more jerky. We need to put it in the fridge. We need this number of pounds of it. We have to cook it. This email right here that De pulled up says, how is your jerky situation? Should I bring any more? And there's another email to Jeffrey Epstein from unknown. Francis has time to come tomorrow to show me how to make. Make it jerky. Class anyone? It will also. He will also bring you a taste of his new jerky recipe from the restaurant and sends a warm hello. He is working in a restaurant called Cannibal and cooks. Is this real? This is from jmail. Wait for it. Beef jerky and steak. He has time at 3pm tomorrow if this is okay with you. And they refer to like. Didn't they refer to storing it like chemically?

[B]

No.

[A]

In freezers. In free. Yeah, that's why I thought blood.

[B]

Jeez, man. I mean, see, this is why we need the rest of these documents. I agree.

[A]

The whole thing is a 4chan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A dream.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I will freely admit it.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Did that. Yeah, they did what? Fortunate sent me some. There's also an Epstein connection to the creator of 4chan quote moot and how. No, you're good. And how he and Bannon helped to create Politics r Politics, which basically create. Created the alt right pipeline that helped Trump win the election.

[B]

It just goes deeper and deeper and deeper.

[A]

Okay, can you pull up the Peter Thiel Brexit email exchange with. With Epstein 2016. June 2016. It's probably not in. I have this one about the collapse. Is that what you're talking about? Yes. Okay, so Epstein, you know what's crazy, bro?

[B]

I remember.

[A]

Oh, God, that's so weird. Remember where I was when this happened too? This wasn't that far away. Okay, so Brexit he sends to Peter Thiel Brexit. Just the beginning. Peter Thiel responds of what? And Epstein goes return to tribalism counter to globalization. Amazing new alliances. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. And as I said in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding them next bargain. This is where the whole bankers profiteering off of war. And obviously Peter Teal is not a banker. Jeffrey worked in finance for bankers and stuff, but like they're from the banker class, if you will. This is where I look at that and go, well, here you go.

[B]

Wow. Oh, my God.

[A]

I never seen you so speechless. This much.

[B]

I feel bad that I'm so shocked that I can't contribute very much. It's so overwhelming. It's so sickening. I. I didn't realize it was this deep. Incredible. And you know, Jeffrey Epstein aside, and Gilly Max. Well, of course. These are the people that are still running the country. Yes, they're running the economy.

[A]

Notice the vice president hasn't said anything. Not a word recently.

[B]

Not a single word.

[A]

That's his chief funder right there.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

He also had a.

[B]

He created J.D. vance.

[A]

Yes, but actually before that. Are you aware that J.D. vance had a fundraiser dinner at Les Wexner's house in 2017 that I was

[B]

not aware, but that actually doesn't surprise me me.

[A]

Oh, it doesn't?

[B]

No, because Les Wexner was the guy in Columbus, Ohio. And if you're a Republican in Ohio, you need to kiss the ring. Yeah, I did not know it though.

[A]

If remove our own guilt in this for a second because we definitely have some that I. I do believe. And again, I'm very open to changing my opinion on things, but I do believe believe in this situation, CIA or. And U. S. Intelligence has blood on its hands with all this. I. I just don't see a scenario where they don't. But you Also have other governments that do as well. Yes, and it's. It's multiple. It's an ally like the uk. It's an ally like Israel, where we know Jeffrey had significant contacts, including Ahood Barack. It also came out in the emails that the US the. The Israeli UN security team came over to install all of his security at his place. Oh, you didn't see that? Can we pull up this email?

[B]

Are you kidding me?

[A]

John's having a crisis of conscious right now. I'm sorry, there's been a lot of me talking the last half hour while John's just like questioning everything. All right, so this is from Mario Nafal, Israeli government.

[B]

Oh, I just talked to Mario two days ago.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The chances. Israeli government installed security systems Epstein's Manhattan building where he housed underage models. Starting 2016. Israeli mission to the UN coordinated with Epstein's staff to install alarm sensors and surveillance equipment. Rafi Shlomo, who? You know, I said this earlier, very Russian name. Head of security for former Israeli pm. Ahud Barack personally controlled access to the apartment, did background checks on cleaners, remotely disabled alarms when people needed to enter, and Epstein personally improved it. All the emails are right there. I read these in the solo episode the other day. But this. This tweets up on the screen. Just if you wouldn't mind deep. Just pulling up the email so people can see it. But this is the back and forth and then the other one, I think also this is where they're going through the details. But then this is where it's laid out with the Hood's name in there and everything. I believe Nelia Hood was on the other email. His wife, I assume. But they're going through the whole things of what they're going to be wiring. And it seems like they have a pretty chummy relationship.

[B]

It sure seems that way. And Jeffrey doesn't mind holes in the walls. Of course. We learned that in spades at the island house. Wow, man.

[A]

Did you see Netanyahu's response to no

[B]

know the Love to hear it.

[A]

I'm paraphrasing here, but he said this actually proves that we are not guilty because Ahud Barack has attempted to overthrow the entire Israeli order as a political opponent for many years and operated. I don't know if he said in like the George Soros crowd or something like that, but he was like insinuating like, you know, anti Israel. And we're talking about a dude, a hubarak, who does have opposite politics in many cases.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To Netanyahu except in the case of, you know, trying to grow Israel, which, you know, that's, that's what they're trying to do. How they do that is certainly the question. But, you know, to say that about a dude who is like within Israel, a legendary special forces guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who got it. We have that. The New York City shot from the movie Munich right there. Where he gets a shout out in the movie.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

While they're doing. While Masad is doing some of the. Right. And then he becomes prime minister, eventually defense minister and everything. But being with Epstein is a way to show that you're innocent. That seems a little.

[B]

No, he's flailing around.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

Is it an unsurvivable. Because of the public's reaction if that information were flat out confirmed by both governments, Is it an unsurvivable act. Act for an allyship between the two nations? Oh, no, it's not.

[B]

No, no. This is going to be a little blip, a temporary blip. Oh, listen, the Israelis, the, the pro Israel lobby, mostly in the form of apac, is so entrenched in American politics, American society, American culture. Culture that the relationship isn't changing at all. It's only because of the likes of, of Tucker Carlson, people with large followings out there speaking truth and talking about what America first really means that might make a difference. People are gonna, they're gonna say, oh, well, that Ehud Barack. Well, first of all, he's a. Has been. Secondly, you know, that was a long time ago. It's almost 10 years ago. And it's not Netanyahu. Netanyahu is the one in charge now. That's going to be the reaction.

[A]

But the public is so aware of some of these things though, now, because many people on the left and. Right. It's a very bipartisan thing.

[B]

Very much so, yes.

[A]

And so you think even in this kind of year, it would be a blip if we found out that had some sort of confirmation that the most prolific known public pedophile, spy dude, arms dealer, trilateral commission person, Coney island resident, you know, was running a Mossad honeypot operation with all the above and money laundering.

[B]

We just moved on. They didn't care for more than a few weeks when Jonathan Pollard was caught red handed and they were managing the operation from the Israeli Defense Minister's office.

[A]

Rafi Aytan was overseeing it, I believe.

[B]

Right. It didn't matter. And the Israelis hemmed and hawed and then kind of quietly apologized and everything just kind of roared right back. And I think that's what we're going to see again.

[A]

So here's the other thing a lot of people say online, and I, and I understand why they say it, but I have you in the studio right now as someone who used to be in the intelligence community, who can speak to this, but people will always and say CIA equals Mossad, Mossad equals CIA.

[B]

Just simply not true.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That, that's a statement made out of ignorance. Yeah.

[A]

Now why, why do you say that? Because I agree with you from what you've told me. But I'd love for you to explain

[B]

it to everybody because the Mossad actively spies on the United States. Actively. Yes, we have a close operational relationship with Mossad. But to say we're two peas in a pod like that. Absolutely not. True. True. We are with the Brits, the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the five eyes countries. We have very close relations with several other, you know, NATO countries. But the Israelis. Listen, at the CIA, Israel was ranked as critical threat for counterintelligence along with Russia, China, Cuba and North Korea. Yeah. The Israelis are not our friends. They actively recruit Americans to spy on Israel's behalf to betray the United States.

[A]

Now, the people who make those arguments, though, one place where I could see from their lens is when you look at the top of the chain with, say, directors of these agencies who are political appointees, you have a guy like Mike Pompeo who ran CIA, who could not possibly be more pro Israel. Right.

[B]

Not possible to be more pro Israel than Mike Pompeo.

[A]

So is it possible that there are some pockets where there is some overlap, but for the most part, as you're saying, the rank and file and people who work at the agencies, they don't really like each other.

[B]

Sure, yeah, it's possible to say that. And presidents come and go, administrations change, change. The, the relationship is, is, you know, fraternal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

At the working level, it's not so nice.

[A]

The last thing today, John, this has been good, but I know that some of this is.

[B]

I'm intellectually exhausted now. I'm very upset by all this.

[A]

I can see. So I, I don't, I don't want

[B]

to like what happened to our country.

[A]

I don't want to show you, But I do have to get to the one thing that we left off from the beginning, which is what you heard about the whole Iran thing. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to let you go with whatever you're allowed to say.

[B]

So I have, I have a friend, former CIA officer, who was at the White House this morning talking to his friends, and he says that a decision has been made to attack Iran on Monday or Tuesday. The President yesterday gave the Iranians 10 days to, to, you know, accept our proposals for an end to their ballistic missile program, an end to, to their uranium enrichment program, an end to supporting groups in the Middle east like Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. But he's done this before. Well, he'll, he'll give you 10 days, he'll give you two weeks, and then he'll just attack two days later into it. He thinks that that keeps people off balance. The USS Abraham Lincoln has been in the Arabian Sea for weeks. We've got about two dozen support ships in the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Sea, the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean. We've got the USS Gerald Ford, which is in Gibraltar right now. It's, it's passing through the Straits of Gibraltar like today, on its way to the eastern Mediterranean and probably through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea. So we've, we're going to have enough assets to attack Iran in the next couple of days. And so he said that there are battle lines, that the anti war forces are JD Vance and Tulsi Gabbard. He said that the pro.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's it. He said the pro war people are led by Marco Rubio and include Pete Hegseth and now the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And I stopped him on that point this morning and I said, wait a minute. I said, during the Iraq war, at the start of the Iraq war, the most stridently anti war component was the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They were always the last ones that wanted to attack because they know what war it. And he said, ah, but you forget, Trump has replaced all of the Joint Chiefs this year, this past, in the past 12 months, which I had forgotten. Any of these four star generals who, you know, had worked their way up through the ranks but had served under Biden, he fired all of them. All of them. And he promoted people that he knew would be politically loyal. So I, you know, Julian, I, I've always been one of these glass half full guys. I'm, I'm, me too. I've always been optimistic about things and I've been saying a lot in my own podcasts, in written pieces. You know, we, we went through round one with the Omanis and Muscat. We went through round two with Swiss in Geneva. Both sides came out and said, said these were both productive meetings. We're going to go to round three. Everything's Looking good. The Omanis are asking us to just relax and let them do what they're good at. The Omanis are really, really good at diplomacy. Really good. They're very, very good friends. And they're honest. So the Iranians trust them as well. And I think that none of that really matters right now. I think a decision's been made.

[A]

Do you think this is to distract from the current scandal?

[B]

Probably in part, yeah.

[A]

About them saying they're gonna release the UFO files last night, which I've wanted released forever, but I know, right?

[B]

I mean, we've been talking about this for years.

[A]

The timing.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. Yep.

[A]

Same movie over and over again, different actors, just remakes.

[B]

And you remember, you're probably a little bit too young, but in the 90s, the movie Wag the Dog was like, you know, people had their hair on fire. Oh, my God. Look, this movie's about the President made a war to distract from his affair. It's like, yeah, how quaint that is now. So quaint.

[A]

That seems to be all that happens, and people have short memories. Well, I hope that I. I will take that clip and put that out tomorrow, Saturday, so that we can make. And maybe get some attention on that to see if somehow that little ripple ends up making its way to change some decisions. Because one of the promises of Trump's campaign was no more endless wars. Going into Iran is entirely different than going into Venezuela.

[B]

92 million people. It's a gigantic country. It's bigger than Texas, and it has 92 million people. And I think that at the White House, they have. Have just. They have just bitten right into this Israeli propaganda, the same kind of propaganda we got in 2003, that as soon as we cross that border, they're going to throw flowers at us and they're going to greet us as liberators, and we're all going to live happily ever after, and everybody's going to get rich on the new oil deals, and that's just not going to happen. It never happens.

[A]

Crazy world, John.

[B]

It is, man.

[A]

Well, I'm sorry to blow your mind a few times today.

[B]

I was. I'm not often stunned into speechlessness.

[A]

You also blew my mind. As regular, though. That happens every single time. Like, you just. Your life experiences are insane. And I'm really, you know, jokes aside with the memes, I'm so happy to see you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

The attention you deserve. For a long time, for people that. That are just learning about John online, your story had a long, very unfair downswing to it that, you know, been

[B]

an odyssey, that's for sure. Getting back, we all get a good laugh, you know, out of these memes, but this, this was deadly serious.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no doubt about it. But I'm. I'm really happy to see it and we'll continue supporting it here.

[B]

Good to see you again.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

Always.

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Thank you. All right, take care.

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Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Hopefully we're not at war with Iran. Peace. Thank you as always for watching this video, guys. If you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button as well as that like button before you leave. See you for the next episode.

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