#392 - “It’s all STAGED!” - Top Cartel Journalist EXPOSES El Mencho’s Assassination | Kat Szulc

Summary

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Julian Dorey Podcast #392 Summary

“It’s all STAGED!” - Top Cartel Journalist EXPOSES El Mencho’s Assassination (w/ Kat Szulc)

Date: March 6, 2026
Host: Julian Dorey
Guest: Kat Szulc (Investigative Cartel Journalist)

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode delivers an investigative deep dive into the recent death of El Mencho, the notorious CJNG cartel leader, and scrutinizes the circumstances surrounding his supposed assassination. Kat Szulc draws on her firsthand reporting from the scene in Jalisco, Mexico, presenting potential evidence of a staged operation. The conversation further covers cartel history and operations, corruption in Mexico, U.S.-Mexico narco politics, cartel media myth-making, and the controversial recent arrest of Canadian cartel figure Ryan Wedding.

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Key Segments, Discussion Points, & Timestamps

1. Accessing El Mencho’s Compound: The Aftermath [00:35–05:00]

• Kat describes arriving at the alleged El Mencho compound in Tapalpa, Jalisco, 1.5 days after the operation.
  • The location is strikingly calm and resembles a tourist retreat, not a crime scene.
  • No police presence, burned cars/businesses, but otherwise “really nice, super safe” [00:45–01:15].
• Official story: El Mencho fled through forested area to a country club, where he was ultimately killed during a shootout that killed 25 National Guard and ~12 cartel men [01:30–02:50].
• Kat points out oddities: No crime scene tape, empty compound, no ongoing investigations.

2. Reputation & Accuracy in Cartel Journalism [05:00–08:44]

• Julian calls out how Kat’s work is often doubted or ridiculed until later proven accurate (notably the CJNG baby trafficking expose).
• “You put all the pieces together... you can make a pretty informed hypothesis.” – Kat [05:11]
• Discussing the baby-trafficking racket between CJNG and La Línea, which was widely doubted until U.S.-assisted arrests confirmed Kat’s reporting [06:29–07:50].

3. CJNG’s Origins, Operations & Narco Branding [08:44–13:14]

• Kat recounts how El Mencho, born in Michoacán, rose from illegal immigrant and ex-cop to CJNG leader and married into the Valencia “Los Cuinis” family, old-money narco royalty.
• “They literally are the Kennedys of Mexico... probably the richest family in Mexico.” – Kat [10:21]
• CJNG is a fusion of violent paramilitary force (Mencho) and established financial empire (Valencias).
• Details on cartel payrolls: police/military on the take, use of Excel spreadsheets to track payments [12:29–13:05].

4. The Real Story of CJNG’s Power & Expansion [13:14–21:17]

• CJNG combines financial and military strength to become Mexico’s most expansionist cartel.
• “They’re the fifth largest employer in Mexico.” – Kat [20:08]
• They expanded by absorbing local mafias and forming strategic alliances, even with rival Sinaloa factions.
• Kat outlines potential CJNG successors—El Cerro Tres (“03”), El Jardinero, El Yogur, and El Sapo—but notes a suspicious lack of infighting after Mencho’s death [21:19–26:01].

5. El Mencho’s Leadership & The Operation’s Logistics [29:33–41:12]

• El Mencho’s unique low-profile leadership style—a mythic figure, not flamboyant like El Chapo.
• “He was like a typical Mexican guy from the rancho... family man.” – Kat [38:31]
• U.S. intelligence provided Mexico with Mencho’s location; Mexico conducted the raid. Kat is deeply skeptical of the “official” story and describes the “kingpin strategy” as ultimately counterproductive [41:12].

6. On the Ground: Investigating the "Staged" Scene [47:53–62:00]

• Kat’s walkthrough of the compound: burned-out forests, intact homes, 50-caliber shell casings but NO bullet holes or physical evidence of an intense firefight.
• “There’s not a single bullet hole. There’s... zero shattered windows... four of us spent hours trying to find something.” – Kat [53:49–54:13]
• Scene appeared completely staged—fresh food was actually two weeks old, personal belongings left out, no bodies, almost no blood. (“This is bullshit,” she laments, exasperated [114:09].)

7. Theories & Implications: What Really Happened? [62:10–78:24]

• Kat presents three hypotheses:
  1. Operation happened but was embellished for PR.
  2. The wrong area was staged for press; real action went down at the country club.
  3. Mencho was already dying or dead, and CJNG/government cooperated to "gift" his capture to the U.S.
• Lack of chaos and infighting supports theory that power transition was pre-arranged.
• Symbolic, lavish funeral for Mencho is a “slap in the face” to ordinary Mexican families who lost loved ones to cartel violence [70:13–71:56].

8. U.S.-Mexico Strategy, Political Optics, and "Tacit Agreements" [75:20–80:47]

• Discussion about whether Mencho’s killing was coordinated for U.S./Mexican political benefit or media distraction.
• “Maybe you give us a pound of flesh once in a while so we can market it to the public, but... we’re not going to actually do what we did in Afghanistan.” – Julian [76:01]
• Kat pushes back on pure “distraction” theory; believes multiple truths can coexist but acknowledges the PR and tactical motivators.

9. Cartel-State Relations & Corruption (Power, Law, Impunity) [80:47–101:05]

• The conversation drifts into broad systemic corruption: politicians, cops, National Guard, courts all in the pay of cartels.
• “It’s a narco government and economy. How do you even separate that?” – Kat [113:32]

10. Ryan Wedding: Canada’s Most Notorious Narco [128:57–153:53]

• Kat recaps Ryan Wedding’s unlikely rise: from Olympic skier to cartel enforcer/trafficker, connected to both Sinaloa and Chapitos.
• His violence, connections, and business acumen made him a natural fit for high cartel ranks.
• His recent arrest came via self-surrender, coerced by U.S. threats to “something close” to him (details undisclosed by Kat).
• Details on “Cocaine Lawyer” Deepak Paradkar, a Canadian attorney–accomplice indicted for facilitating hits and acting as cartel mole [154:24–155:49].
• Insights into the mind-boggling leniency of Canadian justice for cartel crimes [156:06].

11. Ukraine: Cartels, Mercenaries, & War [157:20–170:02]

• Kat reports on Colombian mercenaries recruited to fight in Ukraine, later drawn into Mexican cartel violence.
• Cartels exploit global conflict: Colombians travel to Ukraine for mercenary duty, get combat/tech training, then hired by cartels on returning to Latin America.
• “The cartels have transnational nexus between every possible hostile environment... you could imagine.” – Kat [175:23]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the staged crime scene:

  • “There’s not a single bullet hole... four of us spent hours trying to find something.” — Kat [54:13]
  • “Let’s leave. What the fuck are we doing here? This is such bullshit.” — Kat [114:09]

• On narco mythmaking:

  • “His brand honestly brought more notoriety... music made people want to join CJNG... this is fiction! But for some people, it’s convincing.” — Kat [18:21]

• On cartel government fusion:

  • “It’s a narco government and economy. How do you even separate that?” — Kat [113:32]

• On the kingpin strategy:

  • “You chop off the head of the hydra and two worse ones grow back... Just causes more violence. Doesn’t work.” — Kat [41:15]

• On the lack of infighting:

  • “The leader is taken out, we should see three different guys vying for power... There should be a war in Zacatecas, a war in Veracruz, a war in Sinaloa... and they’re not. No. It doesn’t add up.” — Kat [100:22–100:48]

• On the realities of female journalism in cartel lands:

  • “A lot of people know where I’m at, know what flights I’m taking... but I don’t know if, down to the very bottom of, like, a cartel lookout... they’d recognize me.” — Kat [88:52]

• On Canadian legal impunity:

  • “If your boyfriend cheats, just kill him... you’re not going to do any time. You’ll be fine. This is a perfect example.” — Kat [156:06]

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Additional Noteworthy Segments

• CJNG Media Propaganda & Narco Corridos:
  Detailed discussion on how CJNG fostered a media/propaganda machine—using music to mythologize cartel life and even inspire recruitment [17:07–19:47].

• Culture of Distrust & Desensitization:
  Mexicans are so accustomed to violence and impunity that even children run for cover instinctively, but it rarely makes international news anymore [112:17–112:58].

• Ukraine Mercenary Pipeline:
  Kat tracks the journey of Colombian mercenaries supplying both sides of the Ukraine war, their eventual recruitment by Mexican syndicates for specialized violence [157:20–170:02].
  “Cartels are exploiting a war that already has very little resources... using Ukraine as a training ground, then bringing them to Mexico.”

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Closing

Kat’s fieldwork provides a rare, unfiltered vantage on the state-crime symbiosis governing Mexican narco-politics. Her reporting raises serious doubts about official accounts of El Mencho’s demise, offers context to recent kingpin strategy failures, and uncovers new narco-military intersections on a global scale.
Her Borderline Dispatches podcast and social channels host her video coverage of these investigations.

Follow Kat Szulc:

• Instagram: @katarinaszulc
• Podcast: Borderline Dispatches

For more:
All the supporting videos and maps referenced in this episode will be available on Kat's YouTube/Instagram and Borderline Dispatches.

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Transcript

[A]

Next up, a laughing session from the Laughing Cow. Now unpeel a wedge of the Laughing Cow. Light spreadable cheese. A delicious snack with 2 grams of protein and 25 calories per wedge.

[B]

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. So you're just getting back from El Metro's compound?

[A]

Yes, I was there for three days.

[B]

How the do you get onto El Mencho's compound right after. I mean he was like the most wanted guy in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How'd you get in there?

[A]

Well, it actually wasn't that complicated, so I got a lot of questions about this, but there was a lot of press there. It was wide open. So basically there's this compound of cabins in Tapalpa Jalisco, which is a really common tourist destination. It's actually super nice there. When I got there, I got there like a day and a half after the operation and it was super calm, really nice place. Like I felt like I was on vacation. It was super safe, really nice.

[B]

Looks beautiful.

[A]

It is. It's a pueblo Mexico. It's like a.

[B]

How's it look when there are dead bodies all over the street?

[A]

There were not. And that place doesn't actually have that. They do not have crime like that. And the only really thing that was that stood out was like there was like a few oxos that were burned to the ground because like of the, of the chaos that ensued following the operation, they were burning cars and businesses. But aside from that, it really wasn't that bad. We just had to go to like smaller local stores to get waters and whatever. But a lot of press was there. And this allegedly wasn't actually the place where he was captured or he was killed. Right. Because there's this compound with cabins, they're vacation rentals. And in front of it there's this basically like foresty area. It's kind of in. Within forest, I guess. And allegedly he escaped from this cabin compound through the forest to a country club which is right next door where he had a really big luxurious house. And it's in a. It's like a gated country club. And that's where he was found and then shot at. Like according to the official records of his death, he had multiple gunshot wounds like in his abdomen. And that's how he was killed. And during the operation, I think 25 National Guard members of Mexico's National Guard were killed.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And then, yeah, that was a big Hit, obviously.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then there was, I think, around. I have a lot of numbers to remember here, so I'm kind of just ballparking it. Yeah. But I think around 12 of El Mencho's guys were also murdered during this operation. And so I, I'm under the impression from being there at the cabins that his guys were staying at these cabins. And then I don't know if I guess during the operation he was there and then took off through the forest to the country club. So obviously having gone there is very different than just looking at pictures of it because. Well, first of all, to get into this, I'm going to call this area where the cabins are just the compound for the rest of this. Yeah. Episode. To get there. It's one narrow, ish road that goes from the highway. So you're, you're along the highway. I actually should have shared you a really good map that I have. But it's along the highway. You take a turn to this long, narrow road that takes you all the way up to this compound of cabins along that road. There's maybe like four or five really luxury homes there. And then you get to the cabins. When we got there, there was no National Guard, there were no police, nothing. It was just us.

[B]

Empty.

[A]

Yeah, it was literally me and my

[B]

cameraman and they took out Mexico's Bin Laden. And the place is completely ghost town two days later.

[A]

Yeah, no like police tape, nothing that. I don't know what that is. Oh, that's the town. Yeah, that's the city center.

[B]

Oh, this is like some of the stuff you said where cars are burned.

[A]

Yeah, they burned a lot of cars, but.

[B]

Cat, Cat, can we back up?

[A]

Sorry. Yeah, you're gonna have to help me out with this. Just so much happened being there. I'm like, still processing it.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of people right now listening, going, what the? Like, she's on the side of this thing. But what's going on? Who is this guy? You've been here three times before this episode. We have discussed El Mencho and cjng,

[A]

and I called it on that one.

[B]

You did call it on that last one.

[A]

I was shook. I forgot that I said that. And then I saw the clip and I was like, actually, my dad sent it to me and he's like, what the. Who are you working for? I was like, I, I. You know, cuz you kind of put, you put all the pieces together. You, you know, I have so much information, and this is. I live and breathe this. So then you, you get To a point where you can make a pretty informed hypothesis, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. I kind of wonder when people are going to stop giving you shit when you report a story and say it's all made up and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Because it's now been several times where you've reported a really big one, and people are like, she's full of shit. She has no idea what she's talking about. And a week later, it's like, ah, wait a minute.

[A]

Is she massaed?

[B]

Oh, wow. I wasn't going to go there, but.

[A]

No, but I get that a lot. Huh?

[B]

Are you.

[A]

I can't tell you. No. Oh, my God. Now your viewers are gonna literally. Do I have to answer that? Seriously?

[B]

Do you know what show you're on right now?

[A]

I know. It's like, everyone's gonna be like, oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, we take this very seriously around here.

[A]

Oh, my God, you need to stop. Because since I got back from Ukraine, my whole is filled with Russian

[B]

tracking down El Mento. It's. It's all. It's all adding up. But I will say in. Particularly in episode 336, when you broke the. I mean, I. I don't even know what to call that.

[A]

The baby.

[B]

Baby trafficking story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of cj. Of cjng. That was the one that Pete. I mean, I got so many people reaching out like, you're an idiot. How could you ever have her on about this? I'm like, I got all the risk. Oh, yeah, People didn't believe you. I'm like, I got. Trump did a whole pressure about it. Exactly. I said, I got all the receipts on this before we did it. I called you the second you reported that, and I was like, are you sure about this? How do you know? You told me. And then a week later, they arrest la. Can we pull that up? Deep? La Diabla from cg. Oh, I was in that house from cjng. But, like, they literally arrested the lady who was running this. The United States government helped with that. And the entire racket was exactly what you said and effectively what they were doing. It's absolutely disgusting. But CJNG started this new racket. Deep's got it up right here. That's the psychotic bitch who was running it. Martha Alicia Menendez. Her Mendez Aguilar, known as La Diabla. But what they were doing is. Is they were abducting young pregnant women, vulnerable women from lower socioeconomic environments, bringing them to trap houses, forcing them to have C sections, leaving their dead bodies on the side of the road, packaging up the babies alive and maybe sometimes dead for organ harvesting. I don't know, but at least alive. And would take them across the US border and traffic them for thousands and thousands of dollars.

[A]

Yeah, and it was between CG and Lania, which is still not designated a foreign terrorist organization.

[B]

Wait, why not? What's. Can you explain La linea to people?

[A]

Yeah, it's the basically like Juarez Cartel. It's. It's the cartel that runs Chihuahua, you know, that border state.

[B]

So why aren't they a terror group?

[A]

I don't know. That FTO designation list, I thought it would expand shortly after they first published it last year, and it hasn't.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And there's a lot that are missing on it, but.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know how that works.

[B]

Well, let's do a recap for people that haven't listened to you explain some of this before and we'll go into more detail this time because we've never given it the full kind of treatment here. But everyone is seeing on the news, cjng. These guys look crazy. They're seeing it in their social media feeds. Can you go through the history of them and who they are, where they operate and some of the insane types of operations they do? I mean, these guys dress in full blown special forces military gear.

[A]

Yeah, they do. And it's crazy. So funny, cuz everyone who was monitoring this situation came, kept reposting that old ass video of like, you think that these are Mexican military. They're not. It's CJ and G is like, yeah, we know, like shut up. Oh my God. It gets to a point where it's like, get with the times, people. But basically. Okay, so cg, the leader of CJ and G. El Mencho, he was from Michan, obviously a green gold state. We've talked about the avocado trafficking before. You know that monopoly that organized crime has on agriculture in Mexico? He. He actually illegally migrated to the us. He was then deported for like drug related charges. He also like took the blame for like this murder that his brother did. And there was like a bunch of lore of his life in the US At a certain point, he gets deported, goes back to Mexico, becomes a police officer. He eventually gets married to kind of the brains behind this all to Rosalinda Valencia. And she is from the notorious Valencia family who started the Millennial cartel back in 1950s-70s.

[B]

In the 50s.

[A]

Oh yeah, they're like the OGs.

[B]

I was going to say. That's way back.

[A]

Yeah, they're the OGs. And they became the Millennial cartel. They actually started with the agriculture stuff. The, the. The. They're from Michoan, the avocado trafficking and stuff. Using those roots to then traffic like coke, opium, weed.

[B]

Right. And they're like the Kennedys of Mexico.

[A]

They literally are. They're. They are so extremely powerful. And then she has like almost 20 siblings, and they're known as Los Queenis. Like, they are the. I would probably say the richest family in Mexico.

[B]

Los Queenies. What does that mean translated?

[A]

I don't know. That's just.

[B]

Oh, it's just like a slang.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think it has like a direct translation. I don't know. My Spanish is good, but like, sometimes there's. I'm like, I don't know, I'm not

[B]

Mexican, so pull up dual lingo or something.

[A]

I don't think du lingo will teach you that.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Anyways, they end up. It's like a blood alliance. Right. Because El Mencho, starting his CG and G, he gets with. And there was already nexus between Mencho's family and Los Quinis in a way. They get together. Los Quinis, the Valencia family ends up funding CJNG and Mencho. Yeah. And so essentially they're like the financial stronghold, whereas CG and G is like that violent powerhouse trafficking, that kind of paramilitary stronghold. Right. And which is why CG&G manages to become the most expansionist, powerful, and violent cartel across Mexico and have essentially power over almost every single Mexican state. Because between the finances, between the brains, the historical power, the. These guys can obviously pop off. Right. They had. I mean, we knew this, but after documents were published of what was found in El Mencho's country clubhouse where he was killed, there's like lists of all of the politicians and all of the police that were on the payroll. Yeah. So they have like, okay, this police force, like the police of Twito, the police of Tomatla, and. And how much they're making. And then the. The state police and then certain people on the federal police. And they referred to the federal police as Los Negros. And then people saw that. Yeah. Cuz you guys are American and you guys saw that and you're. Oh my God, CG is racist.

[B]

It's not where I was going. I just want to know why they referred.

[A]

Because federal police drive black police cars. And so that's how they would just. No, literally, people were like, oh my God, the racist. It's like, bro, this is Spanish. Okay. That pissed me off so bad.

[B]

Well, at least they kept a nice documented list for the Mexican IRS so they could review it later and properly go through the balance sheet. I mean, that's. Listen, I don't like cartels, but I do like my cartels to be organized financially.

[A]

Well, it's called organized crime for a reason. Because.

[B]

Organized financially, you know.

[A]

Right, because apparently in order to be an arco, you have to know how to use Excel.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, when you said that, I thought you meant like they were actually writing it down.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. It's like Excel spreadsheets. Print it out. Yeah, I know.

[B]

So should cut an ad about that. The cartels use it.

[A]

If it works for El Mencho, it'll work for you.

[B]

Anything to get our mind off the Epstein files. Oh my God.

[A]

People keep saying that and it's pissing me Off. Because you know what? Like, multiple things can exist at once.

[B]

That's true. And it's just Bill Gates, kind of. He's in some la troble or whatever.

[A]

For sakes. Yeah, I knew you were going to eventually bring this up because this has, like, been your beat lately, and I'm like, this is so out of my spectrum of coverage. Honest. I mean, I guess, yeah, we're going

[B]

to stay on cartels today.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

I'm just saying that as a side comment, because I don't like Bill Gates. That's all.

[A]

That's fair enough. I don't really think anyone should, but whatever. So, basically, yeah, so CJNG becomes this. Has this stronghold, and they have a ton of politicians on their payroll, obviously law enforcement, National Guard, military. And really, for them, like, obviously, it's a lot of money. But then certain police and certain sicarios, like hitmen and stuff. If these spreadsheets are real, which I think that they are, they're not making a lot of money. Like, a sario is making 4,000 pesos a month. That's like, in USD. What is that, like, $200?

[B]

It's not a lot. I don't know what the translation is, but it's not a lot. Well, it's like, what thief can check it either way?

[A]

I think, like, 20 pesos to a dollar.

[B]

I would think they'd be making more than that.

[A]

I mean, yeah, you're putting your life on the line, and killing for that much is crazy, but obviously this has to do.

[B]

Yeah, $226 is a peso. You there. So for 4,000 pesos.

[A]

Yeah. So it's just. It really goes to show how CG&G managed to really infiltrate culture and society as a whole. Right. There's so much music. I've talked about this before. I get a lot of hate about this, about how they really became like, a propaganda machine and, you know, like narco corridos, like narco music and movies and media has always existed, but CG&G managed to do it in such a way where they build a. Built a brand. Okay. And like El Mencho, he loved fights, and he was known as el Senor de los Gallos. The. The man of the roosters. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, probably. Yeah. Pause. It's okay. I couldn't directly translate. I'm proud of myself. I'm keeping a straight face.

[A]

I cannot. I'm sorry.

[B]

We'll bleep it out and then we'll cut this part right there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We'll do a Bleep and cut it to me and we'll just have, like, a pause laugh.

[A]

Okay. And I also knew this was gonna be a problem because I've been speaking Spanish the whole time, and I was.

[B]

That's okay. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah, so.

[A]

So he had on.

[B]

What were you saying before that he

[A]

had a whole brand surrounding him.

[B]

All right, so you finished laughing.

[A]

So his brand honestly brought more notoriety and was, like, convincing for a lot of people. When I was over there, I actually went and met with someone who sings and writes really popular narco corridos. He wouldn't give me an interview, but his songs are very much in support of CJ&G. And, like, they have a great beat and, like, the lyrics are super catchy. And he actually told me, he was like, you know what I don't like is how sometimes I get messages or meet people who are like, bro, your music made me want join CJ&G.

[B]

And he doesn't like that.

[A]

No, he said, bro, that's not how it's supposed to be. This is fiction. Like, this is not supposed to be convincing you. But this is the problem, right? A lot of this music, it's like, I've talked about this before. It's a gangster rap. Like, especially in the 90s where it really did, like, hype people up to join the gang life and stuff like that. Anyways, the point is, CG&G managed to build, like, this whole brand. Like, if they were to have sold merchandise, it would have been amazing. No, for real, it would have. How is that funny? What?

[B]

It was funny to me. Indeed.

[A]

Clearly. I don't know why.

[B]

Imagine just walking here with legs. Yeah, no, I. I don't. I. I've heard a lot about. We've talked about it with other people, too, about, like, the music influences and stuff. And it's interesting when you tie it to, like, gangster rap in America. But I think I was talking with Ed Calderon about this. To me, when you're actually saying the names, which they do in gangster rap sometimes, too, by the way, when you're actually saying the names of the gang and, like, in this case, the cartels, and totally glorifying it, when in fact, also, let's be real, the cartels are what run the country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, gangs in America aren't good, but they don't run the country. You know, what do you think's gonna happen? There's not a lot of opportunity. A lot of people are gonna be like, well, that sounds good to me.

[A]

Yeah, it seems Luxurious. It's like they're talking about how you get to shoot a scar and have Rolex and G Wagon or whatever. Like, it's really glorified. Anyways. Yeah. So they built this massive empire element.

[B]

Big. Like, size wise, like, it wears everywhere where they're out.

[A]

They're the fifth largest employer in Mexico.

[B]

Okay. Geographically, though, do they spread into other regions that technically aren't theirs?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like crazy.

[A]

Yeah. And we saw, honestly, the perfect example of this. And because I had been talking about how they were the most expansive cartel, and I felt like they just had power everywhere because they're also masters of absorption. So they would, like, go and align themselves with regional mafias or, like, fragmented cartels, and then they would just absorb that region. But the perfect example of this was how when the Sinaloa cartel fractured after they captured El Mayo and the Chapitos and La Mesa were going at it against each other, CJ&G formed an alliance with Los Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel and was, like, providing them with arms and stuff. Obviously, that was in a bid to then eventually absorb Sinaloa. And I think that they were getting close to that. I mean, I'm. That's, like, kind of a dangerous thing to say, but to be honest, I think that they were starting to really push their way into Sinaloa, and that would have been crazy because they would have had absolute control over all of the Mexican states.

[B]

So that didn't end up happening, though.

[A]

Well, it will probably eventually end up happening. Because this is one thing that has stood out to me is the fact that after, you know, the fall of El Mencho, there has not been any really infighting in the cg, which just doesn't really make sense because there were super. There are super powerful second in command, third in command of CJ and G, that. I was under the impression that after a few days, these guys would want to splinter off and start their own thing. And a lot of them have their own really loyal following. So when El Mencho was killed, everyone was like, who's going to be the leader? And I had. I was between El Cerro Tres, who. Which is Elemental stepson, and he's a Valencia, his wife, you know, part of the. The Queenies. Yeah, it was between him. It was between Hardinero, the guy who was basically heading the alliance between CG&G, and Los Chapitos, and it was between Yogurt. And everyone who was monitoring the situation for the first time was like, it's Yogurt. And I honestly Think some people were just saying that because they thought the name was interesting. Yeah, that's Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez.

[B]

Where was Nate do on this? Who did he think it was?

[A]

I think he thought it was Cerro Dress as well. Or. I don't actually remember, but we talked about it and this guy, El Cerro Tres, he's. He's an American citizen. He's born.

[B]

He's an American citizen.

[A]

Yeah, he was born in the States. Yeah.

[B]

And then what happened? He went back.

[A]

Yeah. Because that's what you do, right? You go to the States, you learn. It's like, who else did that? Assad, right? No, Assad went to the uk.

[B]

You talking about Syria? Yeah, yeah, he went to the uk. That happens a lot over there all the time. Like where someone from the Middle east from a power family will go get schooled in the UK and go back. I haven't heard. I mean, I'm sure. Obviously it happens. I haven't heard a ton of that.

[A]

Well, mentioned was in the States.

[B]

But he wasn't born here.

[A]

No, he wasn't. Right, but.

[B]

But he came here to do some trafficante stuff, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That's normal. I mean, but I mean it's not good. But like that's what they do. They set up all their. I mean we're the. We're the buyers of their product in this country. That makes sense. But this guy was born. Was he born in like LA or something?

[A]

He was born in. Yes. I'm in California or Orange County.

[B]

Okay. And then when did he go back to Mexico? He's like 18 or.

[A]

I actually don't know. That's a good question.

[B]

Yeah, let's look that up. That'd be interesting.

[A]

Santa Ana. Yeah. California in 84. Yeah, he has. He has dual citizenship.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I don't know when he went back. I don't actually know if it's known.

[B]

El Palon LR3 LJP, Tricky Trez and O3. He's got some pretty hard nicknames.

[A]

Yeah, he's known as L03 for the most part.03.

[B]

That's pretty hard. That's pretty hard. Okay, so that. Oh, that's. That looks like the US Department of State indictment against him. The third one, Deef, I think he

[A]

has a five million dollar bounty.

[B]

Yeah, there it is. Okay, so this is him. Let's go down. Let's see what. What the government said about Juan Carlos Valencia Gonzalez is one of the alleged leaders of the cartel de Jalisco Nueva Henri says assessed to be the most violent drug trafficking organization currently Operating in Mexico with the highest cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine trafficking capacity. Valencia Gonzalez. His mother, Rosalinda Gonzalez Valencia, as you pointed out, is married to CJNG leader Nemesio Ruben Oscara.

[A]

Not anymore. They've been divorced since, like, 2018.

[B]

Okay. El Mencho, making him Valencia Gonzalez stepfather. El Mencho is also a designated target with a $10 million bounty on his head. Okay, so he's charged with all the regular stuff, trafficking, conspiracy, murder, all that. Okay. All right, so this was one of them. And then who were the other two again, that they were wondering about?

[A]

El Jardinero. He's also from Michoacan.

[B]

That's the El Chapitos guy running the alliance.

[A]

And the thing about El Jadinero is he actually has, like, within CG and G, his own very loyal following. So I have a. Well, I don't know, but if anyone's gonna splinter off and try to start their own thing, I think it could be Hardinro.

[B]

What does that look like? If he tries to do that, A

[A]

lot of infighting, fight for power, trafficking routes. There's gonna be a lot of CJ&G retaliation against him, but I don't know if that's gonna happen.

[B]

He looks like a fucking Olmec statue.

[A]

Stop. You always fucking judge their appearances when I come on this podcast.

[B]

I'm just saying, look at the guy.

[A]

And I literally would get killed for something simple as that.

[B]

Like, I'm saying it, not you. So I'll get killed for it.

[A]

Yeah. I don't agree with that.

[B]

Okay, you don't. On the record, you don't agree with that. He does look like a garden. Them. But anyway. All right. So hard. And Arrow is another one. And then who's the third again?

[A]

Elur.

[B]

El Yogor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what's his story?

[A]

So he basically. Oh, and there's also El Sapo the frog. Yeah. And so basically, all these guys are sort of running really lucrative areas within Mexico. And it's. So because CG and G has such a widespread stronghold, they have to put people in charge of certain regions. Right. And so, like. Yeah, there you go. And he's trending. You know, there's not a lot known about yogurt the same way that we know about El Sapo or El Jardinero. And Eliogur kind of, like, recently surfaced to public eye type of thing, but he's really high up there in those top five. And then El Sapo, I'm pretty sure he runs a lot of Zacatecas. It's like With Los Metros, you know, like another group. So everyone has their role and everyone has their loyal following and is very powerful within their own rights. So what I thought was interesting was after El Mencho was killed, the fact that there wasn't like this bid for power and infighting didn't happen immediately. Instead, what we saw happen was one day of chaos. Yeah, against the Mexican federal government. They were killing National Guards. El Tuli, one of the guys within CJNG was, and he was up there with Mencho, told everyone, you get 20,000 pesos for every National Guard member that you kill. Then I think make like a day later, he was shot down by a minigun from a helicopter in one of the CG strong stronghold regions in Jalisco.

[B]

Wait, the guy who put out the bounty was killed? Yeah, Serves him right.

[A]

Like right after. And it was actually quite interesting that he, like, this didn't make as much news because he was a very powerful guy and very violent.

[B]

But he wasn't one of the main three people were thinking would be a successor when he was El Mencho's right hand.

[A]

No. No.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

I don't know. He was more of a financial operator. And I think, you know, I honestly do think, though, that possibly him being like, okay, everyone gets 20,000 pesos for taking out the National Guard. And he was the one who told everyone, fucking, let's go against the Mexican government, all hell breaks loose. He sent those orders. I think that could have been him kind of trying to push for that power. But he was taken out basically immediately after he put those orders out. And of course, the Mexican government would go hard for that because their National Guard members were dying. I mean, I posted a video on Instagram of, oh, it looked them laying on the side of the road by the National Guard vehicle, all shot up.

[B]

I mean, I'm used to. Because we covered a lot in here with people like you to come in and explain and show us stuff. I'm used to seeing some pretty crazy imagery out of Mexico when the cartels get pissed off for there's some type of war. But that was like, yeah, you know, I mean, I'm glad it stopped after a day or whatever. But you're looking at that during the first day where it's happening, and you're like, what the. Like, this is. This is like the end times right here. I mean, I don't know what you're looking a lot of, but it looked really bad.

[A]

And I honestly thought. I was like, if this goes on, a lot of people are Gonna die, and a lot of people are gonna get caught up in the firefights. But it only happened. It only lasted a day.

[B]

Now what? Let's go back to Mencho for a second because we've been talking about all the guys that would follow him up. You talked about, obviously, he married into the royal family in Mexico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He came back here after cutting his teeth, helping with the trafficking operations in America. But CJNG had this really fast rise. They did.

[A]

They came especially for a pretty new cartel.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, it's a 2010 cartel or 2009.

[B]

So now is he the founder of it, or was he.

[A]

He's considered the founder of it. Yeah. Okay, but what I. But if he didn't have the Valencia family, Los Cuinis, backing them, I don't think it wouldn't have happened, especially not the way that it did. And this is another thing, is, like, Rosalinda, she's free, she's out. Like, she was in Mexican custody for. I think it's. It was money laundering. And when she was arrested, they found, like, I think $12 million in her house. And this was another thing that was weird to me. When El mentioned was captured or killed, they said that they found in the house 17 million pesos and, like, 900 and something thousand USD, which to me just didn't make sense because you would have way more money than that, like, at your disposal. And I talked to a colleague. I talked to Johan Grill about this. He covers this, too. And he was like, well, you know, it's possible that they didn't, like, need that much, like, on hand cash. And we just agreed to disagree because I was like, I don't think that he would have under $10 million in cash at his disposal, you know, at his compound.

[B]

I would think it's even way more than that, too.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

How big that is.

[A]

Me too. And, like, hidden and stuff like that. I'm under the impression that it's possible that a lot of money got pocketed during the operation. We've seen that happen a lot before where there's, like, you know, empty Rolex boxes.

[B]

Right. And you're brave enough to go in there, you gotta. Yeah. Take your prize of it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, even. Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

So that was also odd to me. Anyways, Rosalinda is free. She, I guess she was on like house arrest but she's kind of nowhere to be found. And there's obviously a lot of nexus between her, her family and the Mexican federal government. She, A lot of, she's been sanctioned by ofac. A lot of her businesses have, but there's still a lot of businesses that have. Not that she runs that have not been sanctioned by ofac. And her daughter with Mencho Laisha, she was actually pictured at the funeral yesterday. Her. She was living in.

[B]

The daughter was.

[A]

Yeah, she, she's the youngest daughter. She was living in I think San Bernardino in like a 5 million dollar house that was paid for in cash with her husband. And her husband was actually just arrested last year I think was when I posted that last year or the year before and cartel guy. Oh yeah. And he had faked his death. So when he was arrested people were like oh, he's alive. Right. And like elementary previously faked his death so many times. And then there was also that rhetoric about like elemental like his liver is failing and he has crazy dialysis which I, I do believe that he had like cirrhosis and like. Wait, is that liver failure? Yeah, yeah, that's liver failure.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Yeah, it is. But I also didn't really believe it was maybe to the full extent that was being put out to the public to try, try to try to give this perception that he's weak and

[B]

frail, like old mafia don kind of PR thing.

[A]

Yeah, I got you. And so anyways, there's obviously clearly a lot of nexus between CG and G, the Queenies and the US And I lost my train of thought and I was going to say something very important.

[B]

Well, we were talking about the compound, didn't have a lot of money in it. People were taking their cut and everything. And then the wife had the money laundering charges, but she was let go. But the daughter's living in a five million dollar mansion with a cartel guy who's dead, but not dead.

[A]

Yeah. And then he gets arrested and she's back in Mexico. She was pictured at the funeral yesterday. I, I, it didn't look like her to me, but it is what it is. We're also the same age, which is like crazy to me, but anyways. Yeah, ask me something.

[B]

Yeah, you forgot where that was. No problem. Well, I'm sure we'll come back over it here. Because what I wanted to get at with el mention, this is why asking about it with like the Genesis, so he's like the founder, if you will, and they rise up quickly. He's able to build out, obviously a machine here of people, would you say? I mean, I think this is kind of what you're saying. I just want to make sure I understand. Literally, because he was married to Valencia and had the backing of all that money and that name brand, he was essentially allowed to start his own cartel. Meaning the Chapitos or some of the other cartels at the time in the region weren't looking at some new cartel starting and saying, we're going to stop this before it starts. They backed off because of who he was with.

[A]

It's quite possible.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But the Sinaloa cartel and CG and G always had, they were enemies there. And so that's why it was weird. Well, not weird, but it was really shocking when they kind of made that alliance with the Chapitos faction of, of the Sinaloa Cartel. They were not friends, they were adversaries. But because of the amount of money and power that Mencho held, they were able to gain so much manpower and access that at that point it was like, well, these cartels are essentially coexisting right now. That's like in very simple language.

[B]

Right. But they're, when they start up, they're bringing in Guys who have been in the cartels their whole life, maybe just associated with other ones. And now, essentially, they're starting this. It's like an expansion franchise in the NBA. So they have people that are experienced, meaning right from the jump, they already had networks all carved out in the United States. It's like they're starting day one. The business has a storefront.

[A]

Exactly. Because you're talking about marrying into a family that was basically heading the Millennial Cartel, which had nexus with Pablo Escobar's the Medellin cartel. So. And they were trafficking. At one point, I think they were trafficking, like, $30 million worth of cocaine every month, something like that. I mean, you can fact check me on that. But there was. It was just absurd. So, yeah, there was. It was. It ran very deep. The connection and the access.

[B]

So at what point did men show. Because when he starts cg. Cgng. Cjng. I always up.

[A]

I always say cjng, but everyone hears cgng. Yeah, I think it's just the way that I speak, and everyone. People are like, you're a dumbass. You don't even know it's cjng.

[B]

But, no, I have, like, the dyslexia with it every time I have to, like, think about which one's the J and which one's the G, because it's similar. So I'm right there with you.

[A]

But, no, but I'm not getting it wrong.

[B]

I say, I'm sure you're getting it

[A]

right, but the commenters are gonna say otherwise.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Who the cares?

[B]

But. But he. At some point, though, they get a big enough name that they piss off the United States government. They piss off everyone, even though they're buying off the Mexican government at the time that he goes into hiding effectively. But at the beginning, he wasn't necessarily in hiding.

[A]

He always kept a low profile. He really did always keep a low profile. This was a guy who was not like El Chapo in the sense where he was fucking trying to live at large and wanted the fame and the notoriety. I mean, there was, like, a level of, you know, wanting to be highly respected, and he was kind of like this mythological creature, but he. He kept it very low key. I mean, he was like a. A typical Mexican, like, guy from, like, the. The Rancho. Like, he. Like I said, he liked the fights. He was like this. He would drink. You know, he was also like a family man in terms of. He took care of the family very much. And a lot of narco corrido songs that refer to him talk about how at the end of the day he was like with the family.

[B]

Right. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he, he, he was. I think that's why he was able to go undetected for so long. It was also came as a surprise to me when like this whole thing went down because he was super low key.

[B]

How long do you think they knew where he was? Because he was. The whole thing was that no one knows where the guy is. If you were guessing how long the government knew, a couple years maybe.

[A]

I, I don't know. I mean. Okay, so the way we're told is that the US Collected all of the intelligence on this and then Mexico was the one who did the boots on the ground oper and Mexico was the one who did the boots on the ground operation. Now what I find odd about this. Well, there's a lot of things I find odd about.

[B]

Well, let's just start at the top. What's the first thing?

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna go through like a couple hypothetical kind of situations with this. And because I was there and I saw the, and I was like, this is like insulting my intelligence. So I could see. So the US has been giving, since Trump's administration has been giving Mexico a list every couple of months of guys that they need gone.

[B]

Okay, we win them gun.

[A]

You could literally. Right. You can hear it. Yeah. And Mexico sometimes would fulfill this list, sometimes not. And I think that also CGNG was at a point where they were becoming so powerful that the US Believed that unless they applied the kingpin strategy, there was nothing else that they could do to put a dent in this cartel.

[B]

And as a review for people out there, the kingpin strategy is when you

[A]

take out the kingpin.

[B]

And that's it. That's just go right for the head.

[A]

Yeah, you just go right for the head of IT which I am a big proponent of hating. The kingpin strategy, it's completely ineffective and it ends up. It's like a hydra. Like, you chop off the head and two worse ones grow back.

[B]

You should have told them before I ran. It seems to be what we do around the world.

[A]

It is, yeah. US Loves the kingpin strategy. And I'm really just not sure why. I think it's just because it's like the easy get.

[B]

Perhaps it's a headline.

[A]

It is, it is. And it, it makes the US Especially for ill informed people. It makes the administration look incredibly powerful. Like, we took him out and it's like, okay. But it's, it doesn't work. And it also typically will Cause a lot of infighting, like what we saw what happened in Sinaloa when they got Chapo and then they got May, and it was like, so many innocent people's lives were absolutely ruined or they were killed. So kingpin strategy just provokes more violence, more power, and almost like more of a will to be like, we're gonna double down and we're gonna make this stronger.

[B]

Yeah. The more I watch things in. When you study history and then watch modern history as it happens around the world, the more I watch how things turn out with something like the kingpin strategy, which is the way a lot of governments have thought throughout time. The more I'm like, it's a really uncomfortable thing to say, but sometimes you have to deal with the devil, you know, because it will be. It's like, if I could have 40% of what I want and be pissed off about the 60, I don't. I'd rather be in that situation than have 5% of what I want and be pissed off about the 95. And there's just something about the human ego, and I understand this. That's like. That's unacceptable to me.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And then that's how a decision gets made. And then you get these vacuums, which, again, this. You laid this out last time we talked, literally.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And we're watching it unfold right now in real time.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think that it got to a point where the US probably told Mexico, you know what? We got to take out this kingpin. CJNG is way too powerful. We've sanctioned them to the tits, and it's not working. You guys are trying to get, like, lower level guys within the organization, and it's not working. So we're going to take them out. And if you guys don't do it, we're going to pull a unilateral operation and get our boots on the ground in Mexico more than there already are.

[B]

And more than there already are.

[A]

Yeah. And we're going to go and do it, and we're going to take credit because Mexico cannot handle this crisis. So we're going to go in, and we're going to make you guys embarrassed. And it's also important to keep in mind that President Claudia Shambaum of Mexico is a big proponent of a sovereign Mexico and no US Intervention. So if the US Gathered all of this intelligence, here's El Mencho. We know this. Why? Because his girlfriend, who is allegedly this, like, Mexican heiress, is going to visit him. And through a second, a third, a secondary person who knows her and where she's going and who she's going with. We've tracked exactly where he's at it. Okay, Friday night she goes to visit him. Saturday, she leaves. Two helicopters are flying around that compound for a couple hours.

[B]

Whose helicopters?

[A]

Mexico's. Okay, Sunday Menchos captured and killed and dies in transportation. I don't believe that. I don't believe he died, was the story. Yeah, that was the story. Now, wait.

[B]

So wait, they had. They literally put their helicopters in eyesight right there above the compound, flying around.

[A]

Everyone I spoke to in the town and mo. Like, only one guy was willing to go on the record because they're so scared to speak out about this. Fair enough. That was the same thing that happened when I worked in Sinaloa. Everyone heard and saw them. Everyone.

[B]

And he didn't leave?

[A]

No, he stayed.

[B]

That's okay. I see. Keep going. Okay, I'm clocking.

[A]

And so anyways, this is the story, right? And then he. He. There's a shootout. They pull him into the helicopter along with, I think it was like three other of his guys. Also, the plane that they transported them in is, like, very small. I forget what it's called.

[B]

They pulled his body. They pulled him into the helicopter.

[A]

Well, apparently he. Like, they brought him in because he was still alive at this point.

[B]

So they. All right, so they land the helicopter. It's not like they're dropping down a ladder or something.

[A]

I don't know if it was a helicopter plane, I think it was. And I have the name of it, the aircraft, on the tip of my tongue. But anyways, it's a small aircraft, essentially.

[B]

They get it on the ground, they bring him in.

[A]

Yeah. And then three of his guys, I think, and they all die in transport.

[B]

They might have been fucked up.

[A]

And so that's essentially the story of how Elementio was captured and killed a

[B]

day after seeing these helicopters that everyone

[A]

could see, like a few hours. Yeah, because it was like, it happened on Saturday, and then I think it was like Sunday early morning, like so late Saturday night. Sunday early morning.

[B]

And you said that. Let's go back into the mission now in the specifics, because you said this.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

25 Mexican military guys, National Guard. National Guard guys died in 12 that we know of.

[A]

Of his men.

[B]

Of his men died. Does that include the three in the aircraft?

[A]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

So what it. How did they. What is the story at least of how they assaulted the compound? Do we have any.

[A]

Are there any.

[B]

Is there any drone footage of the compound that we could look at that might help.

[A]

Oh, and I have some I could have brought. Sorry.

[B]

That's all right. We'll see if we can pull it

[A]

up, but go ahead anyways. So that's the road actually right there to drive in to that compound. I actually saw the remnants of those vehicles.

[B]

Oh, you know what, Cat? I forgot to do this earlier. This would be helpful. Can we pull up. Can you give Deef the name of the town again so we can pull up the Palpala so people can kind of get an idea. Let's do a topography map of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just, like, get bearings on where the location is, how remote it might be.

[A]

It's a pain in the ass to get up there.

[B]

It's up in the foothills, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So. All right, so what we. When we're looking at the. Where is it deep? Right there. So we're. Yeah, we're seeing the separation between, like, the mountains and the valley right there. Okay. And then can you zoom all the way out deep so we can get an idea just for people at home? So, you know, southwestern Mexico. Okay.

[A]

And so the mission.

[B]

We're talking about the mission.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what they reportedly did.

[A]

So this is what we're told, that essentially the military came through the forested area in front of all of these cabins that are on, like, this hilly region. Okay. Keep in mind, when I went there, okay. And we're told that Elementro ran from those cabins, through the fort, through a forest behind, into the country club. I was huffing and puffing, going from house to house. Okay. And, like, I work out, and I'm 25. This guy's 59 years old, apparently. Yeah. On dialysis, but apparently he's booking it through there in the videos. And, you know, everyone will see the video of my whole tour of this area. I'm literally like, I get to the top, and I'm like, guys, give me a second. Like, I taste blood. Because you're literally going like. It is a mountainous region. And so it's these winding roads between these cabins. So anyways, there's a forested area which now is all burned down to the ground. It's all char because fire broke out from grenades and the shootout, and so it. And firefighters couldn't get there. So it's just all basically black and charred. And so apparently from this main highway road, which, by the way, you can fucking see every single car driving on this main highway road from the cabin compound. It's very strategic location. The military came through the forest. All of the guys from the cabins start freaking out. They come down in the forest. There's this massive firefight, A bunch of people die. And to be fair, like, I did see blood. I did see remnants of grenades and bullets, shell casings.

[B]

Like, yeah, it looked normal. Ish.

[A]

It looked like. Like there was a firefight.

[B]

Right.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Meaning not. You weren't looking at it going, this looks staged. It. It looks like people were actually dying there.

[A]

It looked like, yeah, something happened. Did it look like the. The remnants of an operation to capture a Mencho? No.

[B]

Why do you say no? Because, like, I'm almost wondering, like, what would I expect it to look like? You know what I mean?

[A]

I was expecting to see way more bullets and shell casings and blood. Blood. But, I mean, there was a fire, so it's in. Everything is burned. So it's hard to say what would be still lasting there. At one point, like, I found this one bullet, and I go to pick it up, and my cameraman's like, stop. Like, it could be active. And it's like some of the fire is still smoldering. Well, I don't know now, but when I was there, like, it's still smoldering. So you're walking through, and it's like smoking underneath you. But anyways, then apparently, forces push through. They come up to the cabins, and El Mencho allegedly takes off from the cabins through forest behind these cabins to get into the country club, which is where his main house was.

[B]

But are you talking about like an actual golf course, country club kind of deal?

[A]

Yeah, literally. And then in the forest where he tries to escape through is where he's shot at, and they capture him.

[B]

All right, one part I was thinking about here, and I might be overthinking this, because I've just seen too much cartel in the. In the past. Guys lived out in the foothills for a long time. Like you said, he's got health problems as well. He's been the most powerful cartel person in Mexico for a while now. He's got this whole compound set up with all his soldiers there. He's got the second place where it's the country club where he's got a main residence that he can get to. And it's foothills, so you can dig through. How the hell did he not have some sort of tunnel dug or something like that? Some sort of escape valve, if you will?

[A]

I don't know. And I was actually trying to look for. Like that. Yeah, I went into every single house here, and everything was wide open, actually. All the lights were on in all of the houses.

[B]

Well, it was dark out when the firefight started.

[A]

Yeah. They had to see. Right. So I. I don't know.

[B]

That's inside right there.

[A]

Yeah. And I do have to say that some of these houses that had, like, broken windows or shell casings in them, that. That did not smell like gunpowder. But I don't know, I got there two days after. I guess they were not being inhabited. Like, people weren't living there. Okay. And I'll tell you why. Because, I mean, you can tell, like, the. The curtains were, like, just covered in dust, but not like dust of like, there was a firefight, but just like, you know, when you go to, like, it's a. Like some place where no one's lived for a while and it's like a canvas curtain and then all the white dust, like, is on you. That literally. I have that in on the video.

[B]

Can we pull up Kat's Instagram? She put up.

[A]

I don't know if I have that, like, because I have it in video. The long form episode. That's good.

[B]

But you at least put, like, some of this.

[A]

Okay, so. Okay, wait, go back to that website you were on. No, the. Of the. So you were showing a house. Go to a house that you showed.

[B]

Right there.

[A]

That one. So if this house. Okay. Is where I shot this video you guys are about to see.

[B]

So what, this is in the compound. This is one of the cabinet homes,

[A]

allegedly, where some of his men were saying. So this video. Yes. Is in there.

[B]

Okay, let's get some volume on this bad boy. See what we got. Go ahead.

[A]

Hideout houses. And you can see these. Yeah. So these are 50 caliber shells, but there's absolutely no damage in this house at all. I don't know, it just looks kind of weird to me, like, oh, they were defending themselves and there was a massive shooting.

[B]

Bullet holes you walk through.

[A]

All the windows were intact. There's more casings over there. There's casings. There's. There's not a single bullet hole. There's not a zero. Shattered window. And four of us spent hours trying to find something. We're in one of the hideout houses and you can see the. This wasn't just like, oh, I just took a glance. Okay. I was like, we were looking to disprove, you know, that there's no.

[B]

No, then no bullet holes in a place filled with bullet cases.

[A]

And then go back to the photo of that house. So you see that little garage right there, bottom left? There's a white Jeep parked in there with the keys in there, by the way. I turned on the car, there's on that driveway, there's a ton of 50 cal casings. That car is. There is not a dentist in that car. Not a dent. And then the front license plate of the car is removed. And so then at first glance you're like, oh, that's a narco vehicle. And one of the guys I was with was like, look, there's no license plate. I go, no, look in the top left of the windshield. There's a license plate right there.

[B]

All right, let's. Let's play this out. So to review, lives up in the foothills, there's helicopters reported by everyone who lives in the area the day before. Two helicopters circling that night or in the mid morning, the next morning. Suddenly Mexican military comes up through the hills in, in the forest, if you will. Alarms obviously go off or you know, they're signaled such that his men come down from the cabins and there's allegedly this firefight with bullets and grenades right there down in the forest. Slash on the road to get up into the compound. They try to get Cirrhosis El Mencho out of his place into the, into the country club across.

[A]

And you can see from this photo, do you see that hill? Like how it's slanted like that? It's all like steep hills to walk through there. So yeah, so Cirrhosis El Metro was

[B]

running through that, by the way. Actually, here's a good question while I go through this. Where is the, that smoke is his compound up to the right here?

[A]

It'll be to the left.

[B]

To the left. Now the smoke, what is that?

[A]

That's part of the fire, so obviously. So it's alleged that he ran through a path in that foresty area to get to the country clubhouse.

[B]

Okay, so they allege that when he was running on that path, they shot him and the men around him. And then the Mexican military during this firefight of which they lost 25 people, they were able to get him onto an aircraft. And on that aircraft, his three men that they brought on there with him and him died.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. You go into this house though, and

[A]

which is littered with 50 cal shell casings, but there's no bullet holes.

[B]

There's no bullet holes, there's no damage to the car.

[A]

Check all of those windows. I checked the wooden doors and you know, people were saying to me, they're like, it's because you don't understand how houses are made in Mexico. You know, they're not using shitty materials not to withstand a 50 cal.

[B]

It's. No, no, it's all good. What's it? A metal house.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So.

[A]

So anyways, being said, that being said in front of these cabins. So between where the cabins start and where the forest ends, there's this big kind of open, kind of like a parking lot. Okay. There. There was all of these personal belongings littered everywhere. Clothes, food remnants. There was like a little barbecue, a bunch of food. Stuff, like everything was just littered there. There's a truck, a pickup truck parked there, and a little motorcycle. That pickup truck and that motorcycle had no bullet holes on them. There was. They were in perfect condition.

[B]

And you videoed this for your long form?

[A]

I did. We can actually go to that video. I have it on my Instagram. But then on that truck, there's this little smear of blood.

[B]

Which. Which video?

[A]

That one?

[B]

No.

[A]

All right, you can see the truck behind me.

[B]

Some volume.

[A]

Cool. So this is five to the location in the world Mencho was captured a few days ago. This is literally the highest house he was staying at. I'm outside of it right now. It wasn't. This seems to be an area right in front of the house where his punos, his lookouts were looking out. They were camping out here to keep an eye out. There's towels and food remnants, sheets. And then there's a truck here in a motorcycle. And you can see there's actually blood on this truck. So behind me, right there is the forest area. It looks like the military came through kind of like this way. All of this forest in front of me is burned. Even some of it's still smoldering. But I'm seeing bullet shell casings everywhere. Obviously the blood and then remnants that really hit the fan here. One thing I'm seeing. This is me in that house. We is, you know, there. I've seen some blood here and there. A lot of.50 cal. Is there any? There's some right here. You see the jeep behind me? You guys can see there. And over here, there's a vehicle behind me. It doesn't have front plates, but the plates are still right there. It's also not a. It's not an armored car by any means. Not bulletproof. There's absolutely no damage to this house, but there are 50 caliber shell casings everywhere. And yet all of the walls, the windows, the vehicles are completely intact. I just arrived to the location.

[B]

All right, so this is what I'm getting at. That's the story we've been told. You're clearly finding things that don't line up at all.

[A]

And I'm not trying to be like, conspiracy just looks weird.

[B]

It's inarguable. There's a bunch of bullet casings with no holes, no blood, and house looks like.

[A]

So who were they shooting at? So what, they had the front door open and they were just boom, kill, boom kill, Right? What, do you have a fucking sharpshooter in that house?

[B]

So what do you think happened?

[A]

I don't know, but let me go pee first and then I'll give you my theories.

[B]

All right, we'll be right back. When Thief and I were in Europe a couple months ago, we did a lot of walking. Ain't that right, Thief? Oh, yeah. And no matter how much we did, I was comfortable every day in my Rag and Bone infused denim jeans. All I had to do was throw those suckers on in the morning and I felt good, looked good, and was good for the rest of the day and night. Rag and Bone Infuse offers a range of fits tailored for any style or occasion. From slim and straight to athletic and relaxed. Infused denim is a wardrobe staple that pairs perfectly with any outfit in whatever fit you prefer. When you throw them on for the first time, they feel like they've been broken in forever. They stretch where it counts and have structure where it matters. Personally, I'm a big sweatpants guy when I'm lounging around the house, so when I go out in jeans, I want them to feel like they're sweatpants too. And with Rag and Bone, that's exactly what you're going to feel like. You used to have to choose between jeans that looked great and jeans that actually lasted. With Rag and Bone infused denim, you finally get both crafted with a proprietary eight step over die process. Rag and Bone gives each piece a rich dimensional color that gets better with every wash. As an aside, guys, they're really fashionable and you can wear them with any kind of shirt or fit that you're looking for. And these things are built to last too. Rag and Bone has spent the last 20 years obsessed with making jeans that get better over time. Their infused denim lasts season after season and actually gets more comfortable the more you wear them. So it's time to upgrade your denim with Rag and Bone. For a limited time, our listeners are going to get 20% off their entire order using code Julian at ragmid-bone.com that's 20 off at rag mid-bone.com with promo code Julian. That link is in my description below. Hit that down there when Rag and Bone asks you where you heard about them, please Support our show and tell them I sent you rated T for teen. Hey, everyone, it's the best in the world. CM Punk, back to shake up WWE 2K26. This year, the show never stops. You're running the greatest spectacle on earth with the biggest roster we've ever had, over 400 superstars and legends from every era. Stack the tables, break the rules, burn it all down. And yeah, my very own showcase. Telling my story the way it should have been told. Because when the show never stops, anything is possible. Available March 13th pre order now. All right, so back to it. What? Again, this is pure speculation. You were able to at least see the scene, though. You've been there. You know, things are out of line. I agree with what you found. It's out of line.

[A]

It looks weird, right?

[B]

Whatever the story is, we know it's not what they're telling us. So just a guess, if you had to piece it together, what do you think might have actually happened?

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna run through various ideas that of what could have possibly happened and certain theories. And I'm not saying, you know, like I 100 believe any of them. And I'm also not like discrediting any of them. This is just certain possibilities. Okay, so first, and something that could be very realistic is that that yes, this operation went down exactly the way the Mexican government is telling us, and they captured and killed him. But then they also wanted it to look more powerful and interesting than it really was. And so they scattered some.50 cal bullets and made it look like, you know, they went through this war to get him, which is why they then left this area wide open for the press to just walk on and completely contaminate it and do whatever we wanted to there. That's a possibility. A second possibility is that he. That nothing happened at this area that I was at and it maybe all went down at the country club.

[B]

So why would they stage this area? What's the difference between a guy so

[A]

that the press could go in there and show people that the Mexican military did this huge operation without actually going to the real crime scene.

[B]

So they didn't let people to the country club?

[A]

No. So. Oh, let me give you some context about that. So I tried to go to the country club twice. So Reuters was able to get into that main house on the country club. And I'm pretty sure they were the only outlet that was able to get in there.

[B]

That's sketchy.

[A]

When I got to the country club entrance, there are basically like cassette does, like, what do you call that, like, every time I kind of come on your podcast, I feel like Hilaria Baldwin. Like, I'm serious. It's so embarrassing.

[B]

I didn't see that coming. That was really.

[A]

But there's like, the little, you know, like, the boxes with the person in it, and you, like, you talk to them and you're like, hey, like, can you. It has, like, the arm. Like, like, you know when you go through, like, a paid toll highway and you have to, like, hand the money to the woman in, like, the little box and then the arm lifts up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they have that. What do you call that in English?

[B]

That was fine. I don't even know what you call that. Drawbridge. I have no idea.

[A]

Anyways, like, the little. So that they have. All right.

[B]

Deep. But not just talking over.

[A]

But you're not paying to get into this country. Anyways, so it's basically like, the security. What are you guys.

[B]

I'm not. It's all him. He's just, like. He's on one today.

[A]

Anyway, the Hilaria Baldwin really got him for some reason.

[B]

Good. Let's get Alec Baldwin on the podcast. I keep forgetting that one. I feel like that'd be fun. Yeah. I want to know what happened.

[A]

Oh, my God. That was a very sad story.

[B]

It was very sad.

[A]

Anyways, so they have a few of those boxes with, like, security and then the arms. So you can't just drive right in. When I pull up to it on the first day, there's no one in any of those boxes, and all the arms are down, and you basically have to press on the intercom and someone will talk to you to let you in, but. And there were no police, no military there, but there were two. At least two very visible cartel lookouts that were right in front. Yeah. And so one of the guys that I was with, because I had hired some people to come with me. I know. Like, everyone always gives me shit for doing stuff alone. I did not do this. This assignment alone.

[B]

Yeah. Thank God.

[A]

It just. There was no way.

[B]

By the way. It's a quick little side path. Sorry to get you off. But when you go to do something like this, even if you hire a few people, aren't you worried that, like, if you go there and.

[A]

Oh, I know that the people aren't, like, by any means a security blanket. It's just in. In terms of, like, the gathering and the workflow just makes it easier because I'm not doing everything alone and all. And it also just makes me more anxious being alone, so. Yeah. And I Was doing it alone a lot. But now I, I, you know, to gather all of this content, I need to have a team.

[B]

Yeah. So you see the two cartel lookout guys?

[A]

Yeah. And like one of the guys I'm with kind of starts panicking and I'm like, don't worry, they're not going to do anything to us. Let's just drive up and I drove for a lot of this trip. And you'll see that in the content, which is like not ideal for filming. But I, you know, like woman on top. If I'm not doing it, like someone's gonna do it wrong type of thing. Right. So I'm like, we can just drive up. We drive up and the cartel lookouts don't say or do anything. But intercom is like, no, we have no presses allowed in. It's an order from the government. You can't come in. Okay. We leave, go to the cabins. The next day I'm like, let's try again. And the people I'm with are like, there's no way.

[B]

When did the Reuters guys get in there? Was it the day, the day before? Were you able to talk to anyone from their team who got in there?

[A]

No.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. And so basically the next day I take out cash and I'm like, let's go in. It's Mexico.

[B]

It's Mexico. Hey, why in Mexico?

[A]

You know, it's funny because when I first started in journalism, they're like, never pay, never give gifts. It goes against like journalistic standard practices. And I'm like, well, I don't think that really applies to covering cartels. Okay.

[B]

I think I agree with you.

[A]

Yeah. There's certain area where it's like, I'm not interviewing the mayor of small town Virginia here. Okay.

[B]

I gotta give him a taste, you know?

[A]

So we go back and there's a bunch of military blocking it off the next day. Yeah.

[B]

So when you say a bunch of military, we're talking like 20, 30 guys.

[A]

No, no, no. But there was some elements of military and it was just, it was a no go zone. And those guys are really stern on that and they don't like to be filmed and it's like a whole thing. So I was like, you know what, let's not even try. Let's go. I also like, like I didn't have enough cash to pay all of them. I'm being facetious, guys. But so yeah, so anyways, we leave and there was just no way for us to get into that country club. Now another thing that could have happened. Another theory is that El Mencho has already been dead. And I interviewed a lot of people who. This is what they believe in Mexico. El Mencho has been dead for a while. El Cerro Tres has been in El Mencho's position for a while, which is also probably why infighting didn't break out. And in order to please the United States government, so that they chill with their lists of people that they want, CG came to an agreement with the Mexican government and said, look, you can get the US off your back. Everyone will stay on our payroll. You let us continue operating as normal. But you guys can say that you took out mental, but at the same time, what evidence or proof was given to the US Government, then if that was already the case, to believe that he was killed, maybe he already died at the compound. And CJNG and the Mexican government came to an agreement that, hey, he's dying. So as soon as he dies, you guys can take credit and take his body. We. This is the first time, really, ever that we haven't seen a picture of the body. It was closed casket, which, I mean, if he.

[B]

Casket.

[A]

Yeah. Isn't it just like him, Michael Jackson and like. Like an Egyptian, like king that have had that.

[B]

Yeah. Can we pull that up? Thief. El Mencho's casket.

[A]

Oh, gold casket. And also, did you see the bouquet of roses in the shape of a rooster? Because he was the senor of the roosters.

[B]

He went out fighting. All right, do we have it? Yeah, there it is. Look at what a waste. You burying gold.

[A]

Listen, aside from a waste, I think for a lot of Mexican families and people who were victims of extreme violence by the cartels, this is just an additional slap in the face. You know, you have this really ostentatious funeral service, super luxurious. And there's so many missing and murdered people that were obviously at the hands of the cartel. And.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's. I agree. It's. That's exactly. It's. It's worse than a slap in the face.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also, I mean, can the Mexican government even do anything about that? Because he's dead, his family's technically allowed to do what they want.

[A]

When I was in Tapalpa, it was during this time where there was this back and forth between. This is gonna sound crazy. Back and forth between CJNG and the Mexican government because they wanted his body repatriated to the family. And so CJNG requested formally to the Mexican government, like, I think through a lawyer. I'm not even joking.

[B]

I know Avogadro's got to go in there. Give me the body.

[A]

So there was, like, this letter sent, and I'm pretty sure the president said that it was fake. Mexican president said it was fake. But, see, Mencho's family requested his body. They said that if they don't get the body by X date and time, that all hell was going to break loose. Mexico didn't give the body, but nothing really happened. And then eventually they did allegedly give the body back. I think the reason. I mean, the reasoning here was obviously they didn't want to give the body because they didn't want, like, a shrine to be built for him at the cemetery. You know, you've seen those photos and videos of the massive. So basically a mansion for a tombstone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And, you know, people will go there and, like, it's glorified, so they'll pay their respects and they'll do whatever the hell. But anyways, so that's another theory is that he was already dead or he was dying, and there was this agreement to get the US off the back. But there had to, obviously, have been some sort of evidence for the US to be satisfied with this operation.

[B]

Now, okay, there's a lot going on. I know on the surface, that makes sense. That's a very interesting theory. And at first, that makes sense, and I think it would make the most. Most sense that he wasn't dead for a while. It would make the most sense that they waited until he literally drew his last breath, and they're like, all right, let's go.

[A]

Yeah, so that at least they would have a body.

[B]

Right. And so. And a fresh body, if you will. Couple issues. Just I'm trying to poke holes in this to see what else there could be on the table. If we're missing something, that he faked his death, that I wasn't even gonna go there yet. But let's. Let's. Let's put a bookmark in that, because that's possible.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The fact that there was so much bloodshed that affected right down to civilians the next day, you would think something like that would have been a great first. Something like this where the Mexican government is going to the most dangerous cartel and saying, hey, all right, we're gonna make a little deal. You guys are gonna be allowed to operate. We're gonna give a pound of flesh when your guy dies to the U.S. trump's gonna be happy. And then, you know, you go your way, we go our way. The fact that they would make that deal and a part of that deal would say, yeah, you know, there's gonna be a lot of violence the next day too. And you're gonna kill a lot of civilians. But just make sure you cut it after day. That seems like a bridge too far. That's actually unnecessary.

[A]

Really? How else would you sell it? Also, I'm pretty sure one civilian died. The rest of them are National Guard.

[B]

So that was all. Everything we were seeing was just National Guard, even though they were shooting up all these public places? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Only one civilian died.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's actually somewhat impressive. Is that. That's true?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Can we check that? That's crazy.

[A]

And then also.

[B]

So they're sacrificing their own military guy like. Yeah, we know. You're going to have to come back at us and hit us.

[A]

I mean, you know, maybe it went too far. Maybe that wasn't part of. You know. This is all hypothetical. Can we.

[B]

It's all hypothetical.

[A]

Say that cuz I don't want people to be like, she sounds like Candace Owens talking about Charlie Kirk, so.

[B]

Okay. Based on reports following the death of Jisco, new generation cartel leader El Men Show at least 73 people died in resulting violence and military, which was lower than I thought. While the total death toll exceeded 70. The majority of these fatalities were identified as cartel members and security forces. Initial reports from authorities and news outlets mentioned at least one confirmed civilian death. You're right. And that's another thing. Like 73 bodies is a lot, by the way. I don't want to minimize that. It seemed a lot worse with the imagery we were seeing and hearing about place the airport being shut down.

[A]

Isn't that kind of the point?

[B]

Turn in place. Kind of the point.

[A]

Yeah. Oh my God.

[B]

Right? I see what you're saying. Get a good angle. Send it to the U.S. i got you.

[A]

Okay. And I think that I'm gonna get so canceled for this, but I mean, it's all right. The president is so like really standing down on. We are a. Mexico is a sovereign nation. Yeah. That. Yeah. We'll do whatever it takes so that US doesn't launch a unilateral operation.

[B]

Yeah. This. This gets into other recent events too. There's kind of some overlap here. So maybe we should bring this in. You had a Delta Force mission to extract the leader of a sovereign country on January 2nd because of drugs. Okay. Venezuela moves drugs. We know that. Compared to Mexico, they move three baggies in a fucking eight ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Like, it's not even. It's nothing.

[A]

It's a drop.

[B]

But we've declared terror organizations to Our neighboring country, that's even closer than Venezuela and we haven't invaded there to, you know, go boom, boom, boom on all these guys.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It feels like, you know, maybe I got a little tinfoil of hat on here, but it feels like there's some sort of tacit agreement to the PR campaign that that is meaning a tacit agreement between shine bomb and Trump where it's like we're gonna say all this, we're gonna declare em terrorist organizations, whatever. You help us out, you know, maybe give us a pound of flesh once in a while so we can market it to the public. But like, we're not gonna come in there. We're not going to actually do like what we did in Afghanistan or something like that.

[A]

And I also think because logistically, like the proximity obviously of u. S to Mexico, if there were u. S. Boots on the ground, it obviously increases the chance that there's going to be some sort of retaliation against Americans. This was one thing that was really pissing me off, I'm not gonna lie. When I was seeing how people in Puerto Vallarta, people, you know, on vacation, Americans and Canadians who were like, I'm in the middle of a war zone. And it's like, shut up and drink your pina colada. They're not gonna fucking kill you. Like, be so for real right now, like, are you with the cartel? Are you with the Mexican government? You probably couldn't even name the secretary of national security of Mexico. Nobody gives a about you, John. Literally. And they're all like on instagram, like, oh my God. It's like, shut up. Yeah. So anyways, that and then president shinbaum's response was also just like, really weird to me because as all of this was going on, like the chaos, she every morning she does her morning press conference, and this was probably like her most viewed one ever, I'm pretty sure. And she just gets up there and she's like, everyone remain calm. Like, we have control. No need to panic. It'll all be okay. And he's gone. Like, if I was shein bomb and I, you know, like, I seriously stand by this, I would have went up there and been like, mencho died like a dog. You know, like al Baghdadi. I would have been like, mencho died like a dog. This is the future of a sovereign and liberated Mexico. We this is war against the cartels. And we want all of you who hate the cartels, all of you who have missing and murdered family members, all of you who have been victims of these people, band Together, we're fucking taking them on. And we have the support of the United States government. This is going to be the new beginning, the end of drug cartels.

[B]

If I could see it her way for one second, she'd be dead before she got off the stage. If she did that, they'd be like, okay, time for her to go. Like, that's the. That's the shitty thing. They have such inroads to every. They are the ultimate parasites. I know they have inroads. I mean, you've done some amazing interviews with guys where it's so clear. Like, you're talking about, like, the governor of the region is like, well, he's on the fucking payroll, dude.

[A]

They're like. They don't even hide it.

[B]

Don't even hide it. So actually, though, actually, you want to.

[A]

This is crazy.

[B]

Please.

[A]

When I was in. I'm not going to say exactly where. I don't want to get in trouble, but one of the regions that I was in when I was reporting on this, I went out one night, just like, kind of touring the town in the middle of the night to see what was going on, and there was a local politician, and he was soliciting a hooker.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

that was news.

[A]

Take that out. Fine.

[B]

No, it was fine. It was good. We don't take those things out. It was a funny joke, a politician getting a hooker.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's common, revolutionary.

[A]

Okay, sorry. I'm gonna get so much hate for that now.

[B]

Can. Can you get the. On. On. On Twitter? Div. There's a video of Claudia Sheinbaum talking about the human rights of the cartel.

[A]

Okay. But to be fair, in her defense, unlike her predecessor, amlo, I think that's a deep.

[B]

Who.

[A]

He was always saying, like, abrazos, nobalazos. Hugs, not bullets. She's never explicitly said abrasives. No, but la.

[B]

Okay. All right. So if necessary, we'll mobilize. We don't want taxes on reminiscent. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Not that one. But I think that's the right press conference. Do shine bomb. Oh, wait, wait. What does that one say?

[A]

Oh, no, she's talking about electoral reform.

[B]

Okay. Yes, yes. Here we go. Wow. Yeah. Where she's talking about.

[A]

She got mad that this was getting shared after the El Mencho thing because she said things change, and this was in the past.

[B]

Oh, this was before.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This wasn't following. Everyone was sharing it like it was following this.

[B]

You know what? Let's not do that. If this was before and she's changed her tune on that then.

[A]

Yeah, this was before.

[B]

And she was. Basically what she was saying was, you know, we don't want to go to war. It wasn't hugs, not bullets, but it was a similar passive take. Yeah. It was like, they have right to, too. You can't just go after them. And actually, if I could steel man that for a second, it's just a little weird to talk about it in Mexico because it's like, oh, suddenly we care about individual rights, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But what she's saying is, because they are technically citizens of Mexico, they deserve a fair trial. The argument against that is they own the fucking courts. They own the go. They. They own the cops, they own the government. There's no such thing as a fair. Like. Like, you have to. The US Declared them terror groups. Easy for us to do because it's not our country. Right. You may need to do something like that internally and put language in such a declaration that does not set precedent such that you can do it to lesser people in the future, meaning people that aren't cartel. Just because you don't like them, like criminals, you want to go after you. Just anytime you see a criminal, eventually you could be like, he's a terrorist. Therefore, they have no rights. I understand the precedent, but, like, when you have such a strong, long, demonstrated history of these groups wreaking havoc across your country and on every environment and community that they're around, you might need to do something a little different than, like, hey, you know, let's just let the courts handle it.

[A]

Another way her policy contradicts itself is that when she's saying the human rights stuff and going by, you know, legalities, over the course of the last year, there have been, I think, like four, maybe five at this point, expulsions of Mexican fugitives to the United States. And it was not done under the extradition treaty, which was the policy outlined so that when these fugitives, like for example, when El Chapo was extradited to the US he cannot face the death penalty under the policy of the extradition treaty. Whereas over the last couple year, over the last year, when these. The same thing happened. These fugitives were expelled from Mexico to the US to face Mexican justice system. It was not done under the extradition treaty. So they were at risk, I guess, of facing the death penalty.

[B]

How's that legal?

[A]

They're internationally wanted fugitives, and so they committed crimes against Americans. So America has the right to request for them to face court, an American court. And so the paperwork was done in order to send them to the US but it was not. They were not extradited. They were expelled and, and transferred to the US none of them got the death penalty. Not even Caro Quintero, who was responsible for the death of DEA agent Kiki Camarena. But a lot of people believed, oh, he's gonna get, you know, he's gonna get the death penalty.

[B]

Oh, that's what I was thinking of earlier. One of the five guys you showed me, the last guy, the younger looking one with the long hair, literally looks like the dude who played Carol Quintero.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

In Narcos.

[A]

I didn't know.

[B]

I'm like, I feel like we already got the actor for Narco season three.

[A]

I think Narco season three is gonna be crazy.

[B]

Yeah, listen, the, the, you know, like the Netflix execs and the Narcos production they're eating was watching this and it was like the scene in the office for the, like, everyone remain calm. It's happening. Let's do it.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

But they should. It would be different if they're doing something as it's unfolding. Yeah, right. So they do a season that's covering like all this that just happened and then like shit's continue. I mean, I'm not rooting for violence and everything, but obviously, like, it's kind of chaos a little bit and there may be more chaos to come. Probably hope there's not. Probably will be hope there's not too. Then like season two can be like, yo, they're writing it while they're watching the news. Like, oh yeah.

[A]

Because it's not like back in the day where they were like talking about Amado Carrillo and stuff like that. You know, that's already done, but it's happening in real time now.

[B]

All right, so our possible theory is that he was dying or already dead and this was a pound of flesh for, you know, some underground, you know, handshake agreement to be like, you do your thing, we do ours, everyone's happy, let's move on. What about the other theory you brought up, which is that he faked his own death? Is there anything to that?

[A]

The thing is, I think really what's to that is that he's done it so many times before his son in law did it. He's been known to fake his own death. And that's part of him being the type of guy who lays under, you know, lays under the radar. Chapo never faked his death that I know of. And so, and sometimes it was very believable. We've seen people literally go on the record and be like. Like years ago and be like, yeah, he was.

[B]

He's.

[A]

He's. He's dead. I think he's dead. I was actually up until probably just maybe eight months ago, was still getting messages of people being like, do you think he's dead or alive?

[B]

When you say people, like sources in the cartel.

[A]

No, no. Random people.

[B]

All right.

[A]

People in the cartel. Yeah. No, Well, I know.

[B]

I. Because I know sometimes you do talk to people. Doesn't mean they're in the room with them or anything, but, like, I'd be curious to know if there were rumors among actual sicarios or guys like that who might have been saying even from other factions, like from the Chapitos or something like, yo, I think he might be dead. That'd be pretty interesting.

[A]

So the rumors that I've heard from certain sources within the cartels, and especially in this region, were that he was dying. I feel like that person in those movies where it's like, you know, you're, like, all strung out and you have all the pictures on the wall with, like, threads connecting it.

[B]

It's like the Charlie from Always Sunny meme.

[A]

Yeah. Where he's like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what I feel like. But I'm. I don't want it to sound like I'm crazy. It's just that after being there and considering the context of everything I know surrounding this, it's weird. And the fact that that chaos broke out, you know, it only happened for one day. I know. And it. It's obviously not great, and. But when I saw this news, when it broke, I was like, oh, so many people are gonna die, and so many people are gonna lose their livelihoods. Like, it's gonna be like, what happened in Sinaloa?

[B]

And then it stopped, and there was nothing. Right now. What was that stuck? Because you were flying in, like, when it was stopping, I guess. What was that stoppage like? Like, they had shut down a lot of. As you laid out earlier, it was pretty much just cartel and military guys killing each other. It wasn't as much civilians, but people were still spooked in these areas. When it stopped, it was. It like cockroaches just scattering off the street. And then everyone's like, oh, we're back to normal now.

[A]

Yeah. Like, there was no more burning buses in the middle of the. The streets and narco blockades. And so it was difficult for me because, like, obviously on the day the chaos. Chaos broke out, I couldn't get From Mexico City to Guadalajara to Jalisco, because there were narco blockades all across the highways and the airports were closed in Jalisco. So I was reaching out to people and I had people like, thank you to some of the subscribers that were like, I have a small aircraft. I can try to get you in. But it was just. I didn't know what to expect from the situation. And then all of a sudden, everything opened up like normal. I got there and all I saw was remnants of the burned buses all along the highways. But there were no more burning buses. There were no more narco blockades. I mean, sure, there were punters, cartel lookouts everywhere. Absolutely everywhere.

[B]

And do they know. Do a lot of them know who you are?

[A]

I would hope not. I mean, because I report in English, I feel like that I have a little bit of. What's the word?

[B]

Like, anonymity.

[A]

Yeah, I guess.

[B]

I don't know, though, because you. You now, you've broken some serious stories. You know, you've been on Sean Ryan show. Like, I don't know if I do

[A]

know that I am tracked in Mexico by. By God knows who.

[B]

What do you mean tracked?

[A]

There a lot of people know where I'm at, know what flights I'm taking, and. But I don't know if, like, down to the very bottom of, like, a cartel lookout who's really not making that much money and is, like, on their motorcycle, just. Just the person who's, like, alerting if, you know, there's some sort of military action or whatever. I don't think those guys recognize me. And they saw me because, like, I was driving through and I'm going up the windy roads to, like, cartel strongholds to see what it's like. And they're, like, looking at you in

[B]

the car like, she's back.

[A]

No, I just said they're, oh, pretty girl. Like, that's it. Like, what is she doing here? You know, I don't think. I think if I did stuff in Spanish and, like, more frequently, then, yeah, then it would be a problem. But I'm always, like, with, like, American outlets and stuff.

[B]

I just thought of something.

[A]

What?

[B]

From a couple minutes ago. I don't know why I just thought of this with what you were saying. So just to go back for a minute, you said there's three options. It's either he's dead, and it just didn't go down as they said, he's dead, but he was really dying and it was just a deal made with the government, or he faked his death. What about the fourth door? What if it was a quiet overthrow? You mentioned that in this literally excel spreadsheets, you can see the sicarias are basically paid in like, you know, they're being given like a box of trophy. That's it, you know. So what if, what if enough people quietly got together and said, you know, one of the three guys we were talking about, we'll get behind you. Let's give this guy up quietly to the government and act like we didn't, by the way.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. And it would have had to have the agreement with the Valencia family, Los quinis.

[B]

It would have had to have.

[A]

Yeah, it would have had to have that. But I mean, you never know. Maybe because what set. What we're told is that he was tracked through this woman that he was seeing. Yeah.

[B]

Was she actually like an only fans model or something?

[A]

No. Oh my God.

[B]

That was like fake news.

[A]

No. Yeah, dude, that was stressing me out

[B]

because all the images were AI but

[A]

people were fully going viral for posting random Mexican only fan girls. And they were like going on live, crying, being like, I don't know him, like I wasn't him. And that's. Dude, they were putting targets on those girls backs. Like that was very dangerous. And I, I was talking with someone about. Then they're like, well, who cares? And I was like, well, how could you not? What if someone did that to me? What if someone who was like, oh, well, actually Katerina Schultz was going. That would.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God. Absolutely not.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

So no, it wasn't. From what we can tell, it was actually a very age appropriate woman who was seeing him and she came from a very rich family. I mean mention clearly had something where he could just date really rich women.

[B]

But that's again, that's based on the story they're telling us. Oh yeah. We tracked them here or there.

[A]

And that's coming from the U. S. Side on the intelligence op.

[B]

Wait, explain that.

[A]

Because the U. S. Gathered all of the intelligence and handed it to Mexico on a silver platter and said, all right, now go get them.

[B]

Yeah, that's something. I. I agree with you. Something's. Even without talking about the scene itself, which we know something's off there. Something's really.

[A]

Well, so I'm always like, when I go into these things, like I'm a very critical person. You know this. Right. So it's like that's. I'm a journalist, ask all the questions. What doesn't add up, whatever And I try to be really logical and rational about these things and not to get, you know, in over my head.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you've noticed that because even when I talk on your podcast, like, sometimes if I do say something that may sound crazy to some people, it typically ends up being right. Because I do try to rationalize with this. You know, I was trying to do that, whatever. And I went in honestly under the impression that, yeah, the operation happened and he was killed. But. And. But I still had these questions in the back of my mind and we weren't getting any answers. And I thought it was weird that we never saw the body. I thought it was weird that there was no infighting. And then I got there and I'm like, something doesn't add up, like, at all. It is so weird. And the first person I talked to when I got to the PALPA was like, yeah, we all were kind of freaking out. Something was weird because on Saturday, of all the plane. Like the two planes flying above.

[B]

Yeah, it's also. And this is where. Because I do all different types of content here, right. And I'm always looking at all these different places. Whereas, like, you right now are very focused on that area of the world and cartels and stuff, and you're doing your job covering what is a major story. But I am. I've always been obsessed with news cycles and how they're used for political purposes.

[A]

Dude. And this news cycle has been just demented.

[B]

So these. The. With these Epstein file things that happened. The latest drop is the one that happened on January 30th, and that was the boogeyman one that people will not let go righteously so. Because it's some of the worst shit I've ever seen. And this is such a problem for the whole government. Huge problem, huge distraction. They're freaking out about it. And in a span of three days, we saw the reports coming out, including on this podcast from John Kiriakou, straight from the White House, which he turned out to be right about. He's about three days ahead. But we saw reports coming out that they're going to start the war with Iran, which is not our war. We saw the night before that, that Thursday the 19th, Trump come out and announce that he wants the Pentagon to redact the UFO files. They're literally giving us aliens, like, to try to get our mind off this stuff. And then we see El Mencho taken out on Sunday with U.S. intelligence. And I'm like, to me, if that is how it went down, even if it's not how it went down on the actual final, like, boom, boom, boom shooting that happened. It's like they knew where he was forever and they had that in the back pocket. And they're like, yeah, when we really need to change the story. Oh, cartels look. Violence crazy. Look at the pictures, you know, get people's minds off it to distract from other things. And I cannot help but think this is one small pebble in that skip on the, on on the top of, of the water to just try to get people to watch that instead of look over here and see what's really going wrong.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know if I agree with that. I think that a lot of things can happen at once and yeah, it's

[B]

pretty interesting that three major things would happen.

[A]

I've been getting a lot of comments like what you're saying right now, but I, I think that there's just a lot going on. I mean it could be.

[B]

It could be.

[A]

I also, like, in terms of the Epstein thing, I think it's just enough that they just have been releasing it in small doses microdosing the public and everyone kind of just at a certain point gets really desensitized to stuff like that and it gets brushed under the rug no matter what. I don't even think they need to drop some big thing in order for the public to just not really.

[B]

I would disagree. After last one. And again, I'm more in it but

[A]

like, you are more in it than me.

[B]

This last one. These documents are some of the worst I've ever seen in my life. And it the volume of pub righteously so public outrage after this latest drop on January 30th went up by a scale of 20x.

[A]

People are going to hate me for this. But like that's, I can't look at that stuff. I like, you know, I saw like bits and pieces and then there was like one thing that I was like, okay, anytime I see something with related to these files, I'm. I, I can't.

[B]

What was that?

[A]

It was like a, it was just really, really violent and just really bad. I that type of stuff really bugs me. And I think I've said this on your podcast before, like, I would rather be murdered than raped. And like there's so much like rape and kids and stuff. I, I and I hate to be that person. Like I've always been like, I'm not ignorant, you know, and even if it's painful, you have to look at it. You have to. But some of it is so Vile. Like, I, I just can't. Julian.

[B]

No, I, I understand. That also says a lot that you're like, I can't with this. Like that because I see a lot of bad. And like you see awful.

[A]

Like first person, first person in, like in front of me. Yeah, yeah. But I, I.

[B]

You're making my point for me. Like, this is how visceral that latest one is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People. I mean, it's just. I've said this, but it's such a red line for me. Like, I mean it was a red line already before this, but now that you have some proof, or at least hardcore smoke around the fire, at the very least needing some more evidence to some of the most monstrous. There's something about. Sorry, I'm choking on water.

[A]

Right, I can see that. But this news cycle has been crazy. I mean, like, what. But January alone felt like I lived like 30 years because I went from Colombia, Venezuela to Ukraine to the northern border to Mexico. Like I was just like a hooker's panties. Like I was just everywhere. And it was the following the news cycle. And then now people are like, are you going to Iran? And I'm like, guys, I. There's. There's a line. And you know what? I haven't slept.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like there's only.

[B]

You can stay away from Iran.

[A]

And I don't. Yeah, there's.

[B]

I don't think you'd do well. There's. There.

[A]

Why? Cuz I'm a woman.

[B]

Also, you're not American, you're Canadian, but you know what I mean, you're coming from this part of the world and it's.

[A]

And they don't know rockets going in there. Right. In a lot of the parts of like the world, they don't know the difference between Canadian and American and impossible basically to identify yourself.

[B]

Exactly. But let's. I, I want to talk about some of the things you've been doing, which is pretty wild. But before we get there, I want to make sure we get through the whole CJNG stuff. So. So we got our theories on what it could be. You're. There is a power vacuum right now, but based on what we're thinking, it could just be for show. And they already have someone who's very clearly in charge. Have we seen. Since the violence died down between the military and the CJNG faction factions the day after, have we had major reports of serious violence from within the cartel world?

[A]

Yeah, but adversarial cartels not from within cjng.

[B]

So they're not shooting at each other.

[A]

No.

[B]

That tells me they've had it figured out.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And you don't figure that out one night to the next.

[B]

No, you don't. Come on now. Did El Mencho. Is there evidence that El men show handpicked?

[A]

Who was it gonna be?

[B]

We do know that. Yeah, and which do we know who he handpicked?

[A]

It's El Cerro Tres. The stepson.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And I'm sure that that was also upon the recommendation of his ex wife, Rosalinda.

[B]

Right? So no one's gonna with that choice. You got the Kenny, the Mexican Kennedy's behind it. You got the guy who founded the whole.

[A]

That's where the money behind it.

[B]

That's where the money is. He's been on both sides of the border, okay?

[A]

He's a very strategic choice for sure.

[B]

Now, what is the deal with the Chapitos and cgng? See?

[A]

God damn it, you said it. Right? You did. You said cjng.

[B]

All right, whatever. You get the point.

[A]

Point?

[B]

The what? What is. What is the deal in the wake of El Mencho between those two?

[A]

Oh, that alliance stays alive.

[B]

It's so they're not hitting each other.

[A]

Okay. From what I've seen so far over the course of this week, nothing has really changed.

[B]

Yeah, it's an inside job.

[A]

It just doesn't. It doesn't add up. Like, I know cartels like this. What I study.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the fact that the leader is taken out, we should see three different guys vying for power. There should be a war in Zacatecas. There should be a war in Veracruz. There be a war in Sinaloa. Well, there already is, but you know what I mean. There should be Mitran and Jalisco right now.

[B]

Should.

[A]

And Colima should just be balls to the wall. And they're not. No.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's a setup.

[A]

But when I was in kma, there was like, the day I got there, there was a narco banner put up, and there's obviously some sort of infighting going on in there between, like. But I'm pretty sure it's. It doesn't have to do with the cjng. It has.

[B]

Where was it?

[A]

In Colima, which is the neighboring state with Jalisco. There was an ARCO banner put up and they were naming it, named all of the politicians who are on the payroll. And that's a tactic of infighting because one group is funding those politicians, so the other group will name them to call out that group.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they use them as like a. It's like a proxy. Right?

[B]

Yeah. They know that that's not our guys. Leave them out to burn.

[A]

Yeah, I got you. But it's certainly. There's. There isn't anything right now that's indicating. Oh, my God, CJNG is up in flames. I mean, you remember I came here right after I was reporting in Sinaloa, after El Mayo was gone. It was a war zone show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. I literally got off the airport, and we're driving, and it's just bodies and bodies and military. Just boom, boom. Like, at night, no one's going out. There's a curfew, no kids can't go to school. A lot of the days, every night, I'm being alerted of shootouts and narco blockades, and we're going to cover it. And then in the morning, it's just like, bodies upon bodies. That's infighting.

[B]

Yes. And we're not seeing any of that right now.

[A]

No. Yeah, man. I had one of the best, like, brunches of my life in Tapalpa. I was literally sitting on the patio smoking and eating my freaking chilaquiles, and just. I felt like I was on vacation. And Guadalajara is fine. Not fine. Okay. Like, I don't want to.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

You know what I mean? But, like, considering the context, and I want people to keep that in mind because some of the listeners are not very critical sometimes where it's like, when I say, oh, it's all fine and dandy, it doesn't necessarily mean, oh, you know, you're in Maui. But it Just considering the context of the environment. Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You. You hate when I insult your.

[B]

No, I think I. I think you're fine. Funny, like, unintentionally sometimes, but that's pretty good. So you. But when you first went down there, like, when you were first coming on the show back in 265, you know, you had gone down there to cover Sinaloa, and again, you're covering it, like, in the wake of, like, you said, oh, myo. Having that whole. Very still, by the way, actually, before I asked this. Do we have updates on that?

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was set up by the Chapitos. They betrayed him, sold him out to the U.S. he was. Was. They set him up. He was kidnapped and brought into the

[B]

U.S. was he CIA?

[A]

I don't know. I don't.

[B]

Is it quite possible, though?

[A]

I don't know. You asked me this about every single kingpin. It's so hard for me to say.

[B]

He's a. He's such a prime target, though, for that.

[A]

But Aren't they all?

[B]

They are. But he operated so quietly and so simply through all the ups and downs with El Chapo and everything, and was really like, the dude. And El Chapo is, like, kind of more the public figure, if you will, for so long. And he goes so far back.

[A]

I think he went the longest without being captured. Right. Yeah. Another. Actually, glad you brought this up. I did read someone's kind of, like, opinion piece about how they think that the Chapitos actually sold out Mencho because since the alliance, they were privy to more information about him. And because, you know, all the Chapitos essentially are in the US at this point, except for Ivan Archibaldo, who, by the way, crazy that Ivan has outlasted everyone. Okay? Outlasted wedding, outlasted Mencho, outlasted Maduro. Like, Ivan crazy because Ivan has been, like, number one target and he's like, always just in Sinalo and there have been so many failed operations where, oh, we almost got him, but there was, like, this hidden tunnel and it's like every. Like, it's literally happened, like, I think, like, three times now, which is crazy.

[B]

I'm RJ Decker, the private investigator uncovering the Sunshine State's darkest secret secrets. Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show. RJ freaking Decker. As I live and breathe, he's a private eye. It's not a standard murder. Something bigger and a public mass trying

[A]

to get some back to prison today.

[B]

You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. RJ Decker. Series premiere Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[A]

Support is available 247 with Verbo Care. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support. Yeah, that's. I just think it's crazy. But, like, what the. But I don't know about what. CIA.

[B]

Yeah. With El Mayo. I just. It. The whole thing with him is very.

[A]

You've always asked me this. I don't know. And I don't. I don't want to, like, make an opinion because I'm not.

[B]

I don't want you to do that.

[A]

I think people actually appreciate that. I don't. Don't do that.

[B]

Yes, they do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't make.

[A]

No, I will. I never do. And if I'm wrong, I admit it. I actually. I was wrong about something this year or like I said, I'll make you guys a bet. I don't think Ryan Wedding is ever going to see a cell. That was one thing.

[B]

We're going to come to that story. Hold that thought because there was. That's another one that's like kind of interesting how that.

[A]

I know all the ins and outs of that story. Okay. I'm not entirely sure what I can say publicly about.

[B]

Okay, yeah, we'll go through.

[A]

But if people had known or were able to know what I know. Yeah, whatever.

[B]

I got you. But like there's that guy I've told you about before who I got connected to a while ago through a cartel dude who's like definitely still in CIA, but like one of those 50 year guys who made his bones the first 20 some years of his career. He got into CIA as a knockout in Mexico where they embedded him with the cartels. With the Felix Arellano brothers.

[A]

Yeah. Is that right, Ariano? Felix?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, he's very cagey. I've been. We've like he wants to do the podcast and we've been talking about it for like a year and a half. But he's always going to some third world country to overthrow government. Like his company just shows up there. It's like him and like.

[A]

But he's willing to do this with his face.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No way.

[B]

I call not in CIA anymore. He's.

[A]

But I feel like you never actually leave the CIA.

[B]

That's what I agree. Unless you're like John Kiriakou and they like throw you in prison. Like, I don't think you leave. And like it's just funny because he's got it. He's got a company. Shout out Brian. He's got a company with like three other ex spooky people from CIA and all these other places. And in the words of Luis Navia is like they show up in some third world country and six months later the whole government's overthrown. Who would have thought?

[A]

Venezuela, right?

[B]

But no, it wasn't in Venezuela. It's usually like Africa or like countries never heard of or whatever.

[A]

Africa's not a country, but you know what I mean.

[B]

I meant the countries in Africa.

[A]

Do you know that a lot of your viewers love when I do that to you.

[B]

But you know that guy, I. Now I'd really be burning to get them on because we know CIA has used cartels for their own whatever forever and like it's the ultimate like devil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep. Yeah, very interesting. But back to we'll come to Ryan wedding because I do want to go through all that. That was crazy, dude. But with Sinaloa, because that was the initial. You were. You Were doing all those stories when you first got down there, and you've mentioned them today because you mentioned the, the Chapito's alliance with one faction of CJNG and everything. What is, what's outside of that? Like, what's the status of them from a power perspective in Mexico at this point, given that El Mayo and El Chapo are now gone.

[A]

Honestly, I don't want to talk about who I think is winning that war because I, I, I got a death threat about that.

[B]

Oh, no, yeah, let's not do that.

[A]

I know. And I, because I had talked about it and I was super open about it.

[B]

It. Why'd you. Who, what kinds of people gave you death?

[A]

Someone within that, within the faction that I said was not doing well and

[B]

so they hit you up personally instead.

[A]

It was, it was real. And I talked about this on a podcast like a few days ago or something. They asked me if, you know, death threats, and I was like, I can identify when. It's just like, you know, this empty threat of someone trying to scare me versus when it's something that I actually need to pay attention to. And unfortunately, I know that it impacts hopefully not the integrity of my job, but certainly the content of what I can say. But also like, it's my life. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so there was, I did, like, receive a message and multiple people actually flagged it to me that there was like, chatter about this and that it. Some people were just unhappy that I was saying that, like, basically what I thought was happening within this infighting. So I just rather not give an.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

Cuz.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, no. And, and I'm actually happy to hear you talk like that. Cuz in the past, I feel like you would have been like, you know what it. But like, you, you got it. I think when you're doing a job like yours, first of all, there's not many people who do it. Secondly, like, the stories you do get are insane and like.

[A]

But that's why. Because I've always kind of been fearless about it.

[B]

It. But there's a line.

[A]

Well, when the threat literally is like, substantial. I mean, yeah, it sucks because I don't want to be scared out of saying the truth, but I just don't even think that this is worth it. I think anyone who's a critical thinker could look at the, the bigger picture, that civil war, let's call it, and could form their own opinion. So. Yeah, but I, I don't really just want to talk about that. Exactly.

[B]

Yeah, no, we, we won't Especially if

[A]

I have to go back to Sinaloa at some point.

[B]

Like, that's what I'm saying. Make like. And there could be people out there who are just, they want to complain about anything and they're, there's always going to be people like that. But you have to make, like, trade off decisions sometimes where it's like, all right, I want to do 100% right. I want to get every thing. I want to be able to say whatever I want. If I do that, I'm dead. So would I rather be able to do 80% of what I want and continue to do the job and do it extremely effectively and for many years and actually help save lives and maybe change the trajectory of stuff and shut up about the other 20% so that I can do that and live? Yeah, that's what you got to do.

[A]

Yeah. And, but it, it was hard for me to accept that you would, you know that because you know me. So it was like, it, but it got to a point where I was like, yeah, that was the kind of the pay, like the, I had to accept that essentially.

[B]

And, and it's, it is the right decision. So we'll stay off that. That's no problem. Because, like, they're still basically right. Oh, yeah, still.

[A]

It's still ongoing constantly. And I'm constantly being shown videos of someone in the MAA faction or someone in the Chapitos faction being murdered or like the literal gunfights within, like, the forest regions.

[B]

How much of it is dragging on to civilians?

[A]

I think right now, I mean, no comes to a head every now and then where there's like a really public shootout and you have, like, kids that just got out of school running for their lives, like taking shelter in some woman's home. And, you know, it happens. But because also everyone's desensitized. Been going on for a while now. It doesn't, you know, make the headlines as much. It certainly doesn't make the headlines in here. I mean, in Mexico I see it all the time, but everyone's very desensitized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we talked about this. The desensitization of all that population is, is at an extreme.

[B]

I mean, I, I, I get it, though. They've been living with it for decades. So long. It's generation country. Yeah. We have Carolina here and she, her family's still there there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was last June when you were here. And it's like, you know, we just take for granted how many of us, obviously we have some gang violence problems in this country. And there's some places where people do live with. With some things like that. You go outside, you got a duck from bullets, and that's horrible. But at the scale that it is

[A]

in Mexico, because in Mexico, it's a like narco.

[B]

It's everywhere.

[A]

Government and economy.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So how do you even separate that?

[B]

You don't. Is there.

[A]

I don't. Ask me for a solution right now.

[B]

No, no, no. Not a solution.

[A]

It's like, my least favorite question. Because you think if I had the

[B]

answer, like, we'd be talking. No, no, no. You'd be meeting with more important people. But, like, have you seen any slight improvement at all in the corruption department?

[A]

No. No.

[B]

Yeah. It's still absolutely not every bit as bad as it was.

[A]

Yeah. And probably, if not even, like, worse. Now with this weird conspiracy I have about elemental.

[B]

I don't think it's a weird conspiracy at all. You found it. You found a stage scene.

[A]

You know what? I. When I was there. So on the first day, I went to the cabins. I went in like, oh, my God. Okay, we're gonna be here. We're gonna get this coverage, and I'm going to show people what this is like. And at one point, I think my cameraman got it on camera. I was, like, pissed because I. When I saw, like, the shell casings and, like, just the way the scene looked. There's definitely, like, one scene of me where I'm just like, let's leave. Like, what the fuck are we doing here? This is like, this is such bullshit. And I started getting mad, like, the way sometimes you get mad on your podcast. Like, I kind of crashed out. And my cameraman, like, at the team I was with, they were like, it's okay. We think the same thing. And then I spoke with some reporters that were also there who are with, like, a legacy media outlet. And I was like, do you guys think I'm crazy? And they were like, no, we're thinking the same thing.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm shocked they let you guys in there.

[A]

There was no one to let us in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, you just walk right up and you're able to go in. I'm shocked. Shocked that given that it's so clearly staged, they didn't just create a perimeter and make some excuse and, I don't know, bulldoze the place.

[A]

One of the windows in one of the houses and shoot it out. I know in one of the. The houses, the one that I think was, like, vacant. There's like sliding windows. Okay. And so in this house, do you know that, like, I don't. I don't know how to explain this properly. So, like, in sliding windows or sliding window doors, you ever seen people who will, like, cut a piece of wood or like a piece of tube to put it in that space where it slides so that if someone tries to break in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this house had that. And on the inside. Sorry, on the inside is like the glass sliding doors. And on the outside is like a bug net, right? Well, in this house, there is like the window is broken. Like, a piece of the window on the sliding door is broken, and the glass is inside the house. And like the. The. The rupture pushes inside, but the net on the other side of the door is completely intact. And then there's like one like, bullet, but it's not like a bullet that was shot on the floor. It's like it fell out of the clip. I have a picture.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Can you show me that?

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

This is just like, like, like put a little more effort in it, guys.

[A]

Bro, I know.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, if you're gonna do a cover up, like a good cover up creates evidence. They couldn't even take the time, like, blow out a few windows with some bullets. How hard is it? No one's gonna know. Put a body in there. Yeah, get Epstein's fake body. Put it in there.

[A]

Here you go. This is. This is great. And then you can slide. Okay. So you can't see the net in that photo, but there's a net on the other side. And you see the glasses, like, inside. Then you see the bullet that fell out of the clip on the floor.

[B]

And it's like aimed perfectly facing outside too.

[A]

Okay. But I'm not taking that. Just the aim. Don't take that into consideration because so many people have been in this house,

[B]

so they could have moved it.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, at one point, one of the guys I was with was like, look at that shell. It's on like this rubber mattress that. And it didn't melt it. I'm like, hey, guys, like, let's not be stupid here, because shit's, like been moving around. There's been so many people in here.

[B]

And this is where the glass is broken. That's a close up of it. I'll put that up. Thief. Can you see it in focus? So that's where it's. And there's side of the wood.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Where the wood would have gone.

[A]

No, the wood is on the ground.

[B]

I know, but where the wood would have gone. Like, see how the wood is right there? And that's where it's broken on. That side isn't from that.

[A]

I'm talking about here. Yeah, there's a tube.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In there. There. That wood is from a broken door over here.

[B]

Oh, so that's not even the thing you're talking about.

[A]

And you can see this piece of glass is actually facing me.

[B]

Like, it looks broken from the outside.

[A]

Oh, when I zoom in, you can see there's net here. And the net is in Perfect. I'm not even talking in the mic.

[B]

You're good. You're good.

[A]

The net is in perfect condition. So it looks like it was broken from the outside, but it. I don't know, like. But I'm also not a CIA investigator. Csi. I mean, right.

[B]

That's a little Freudian slip right there.

[A]

Because we're talking about it. Don't try to push some narrative.

[B]

They got a Z. They got a zebra on the wall. Oh, there was a lot of zebra Taxiderm. Zebra. That's wild. You couldn't take that with you as a souvenir.

[A]

So you want to know what's crazy? You know how many DMS I got of people telling me they'd pay me like X amount of money to bring them like shell casings and stuff like that?

[B]

Probably.

[A]

It would have been so profitable.

[B]

But now what am I looking at? What am I looking at here?

[A]

A Jesus statue with the window broken in.

[B]

But what's in the background? Like a Trojan horse statue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that a hillside behind there? Okay.

[A]

No, there's more houses behind the Trojan statue.

[B]

Yeah. What is this? What is the syringe?

[A]

Medication?

[B]

Oh, it's for insulin. I see that. Okay. Pictures of Jesus and Mary. They were very holy people.

[A]

Did I tell you about the watermelon?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, so I'll show it to you.

[B]

I love watermelon.

[A]

Okay, so. Oh, this is like a great map of, like. That's what I want to show.

[B]

Oh, can we see that? Let's hold that.

[A]

So the green area are the cabins.

[B]

All right. Green area right there we got div.

[A]

The green areas. The green area. Tell me when. The green area is the cabins. The red area is the forest area in front where the military apparently came through. The pink area is that road, the side road that leads up from the highway. And then the blue area is the. Is the country club. Blue areas. Country club.

[B]

Well, that's a big ass country club.

[A]

I. Top left is where the part where he Was at where he. He apparently went through. Tried to get tooth from the forest.

[B]

Was he a golfer? Like, was he just, like, out there, like, you know, doing car run the cartel?

[A]

I don't actually know if there was, like, golf there. I couldn't get in.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. I'm not seeing holes and sand traps. So why do they call it a country club?

[A]

Because it's a country club.

[B]

Yeah, but usually, like, I. I usually hear, like, golfers.

[A]

They're in Mexico. There's. There's country clubs, and, like, people go swimming there and eat there. And it's for, like, a lot of rich people to, like, have an escape. Escape from, like, the shitty town that they live in.

[B]

So it doesn't have to have a golf course.

[A]

One of my friends in a state, it kind of has that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I wanted to show you the watermelon.

[B]

Yeah. What's going on there?

[A]

Okay. So they said that, like, they went in and, like, all these guys were living there and that obviously there was, like, this huge conflict, and so everyone kind of stopped what they were doing, and there was, like, food and everything left out. And this, I mean, I would assume, obviously, watermelon was cut, like, right. Like before the opera. Like, it was obviously not that long before this whole thing went. Okay.

[B]

They brought the catering in first.

[A]

I like. This watermelon is over a week old outside.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's molded.

[A]

But this is. This is two days after the operation. So what, did these guys just leave the watermelon out there for two weeks.

[B]

Weeks?

[A]

No way. Or no one was there. They abandoned it a long time ago.

[B]

No, that's molded as.

[A]

Yeah, white. I asked Chatgpt what that molding looks like, and my chemist friend, and she's like, that's over 10 days old.

[B]

Yeah, no, I. I can actually, because I've left a watermelon in the back of the fridge. Like. Like in a fridge that's like 34, 35 degrees or something like that before by accident, and it doesn't look this bad.

[A]

And also after weeks that those cabins, they're built to be really cool. So even though, like, outside it was really warm, when you're in the sun in those cabins, it's. It's very cool. What are you looking at?

[B]

Is that the WI fi?

[A]

I think that's a phone number, but

[B]

in two digits at a time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cabana Numero Ocho.

[A]

I think it's for the administration for that, for those.

[B]

Oh. Oh. It could be, like, an extension. And then you took a picture of, like, barcode up there.

[A]

Oh. Because I wanted to know if the jeep was stolen, which. It was from the States.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds about right. Who are the guys on the horses? Is that the cartel lookouts?

[A]

No, no, no. Those are just guys that I thought looked cool on the donkeys. I don't even think those are horses, Julian. They look like mules.

[B]

Wait, I can't. It was far away. Yeah, they're not horses. They are mules. You're right, they're small. Poor mule, man. That guy's like, too tall.

[A]

Okay, you need to stop sliding there because I don't know what the is in there. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Okay. All right. And so the poll point is, it's sketchy, period.

[A]

Very sketchy. And then at one point, this one was interesting to me. So, like, out front, front, there was like a little barbecue, and it was like, obviously filled with ash. And so, dude, I'm like, what was in here? Because this was also right at the borderline between the parking lot and the forest where apparently the operated operatives came up. So I just like, literally started digging through the ash. Like, when I got there, I was just like, I want to see everything. Right? Which is why I have pictures of the router even. And look what I found in the ash in that barbecue.

[B]

In the ash.

[A]

That little photo. And then slide again. And there's another one.

[B]

Is this cartel? Guys, girls.

[A]

That's what I thought. But then someone else told me, I bet you if you put those pictures into a missing person, they're missing.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But I don't know. I'm in the process of trying to figure that out. And don't show those pictures.

[B]

I won't.

[A]

And I'm not gonna. It's two women. Just so you guys know. It's like they look like past passport photos.

[B]

It's like, what you.

[A]

It's like, yeah, little passport photos.

[B]

They're not. They're not. Like, when I. Let me describe it, right, they look like square cutouts of what would be

[A]

a. Yeah, but it's a selfie.

[B]

But it's a selfie shot that you would see on Instagram.

[A]

Like a Facebook profile. Yeah. And they're like, whoa, that's.

[B]

Oh, that's chill up my spine.

[A]

But why would those photos just like. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I.

[B]

Because they were targets for something.

[A]

I'm driving myself crazy with this.

[B]

That's nuts.

[A]

Cuz I thought, oh, maybe you know what? Whoever these cartel lookouts were tried to, like, ditch some stuff that could like, identify them. But it was in the ash in the barbecue. But, like, these photos aren't burnt.

[B]

That's really weird.

[A]

And then also, I. So I was like, maybe they're, like, the girlfriends of them. But then I was like. Or maybe these were, like, targets, you know, like human trafficking or girls that they would bring to the compound to. And we know that about cg and G is like, at their. Like at the Rancho Seguire, you know, that extermination camp. 60 kilometers. We talked about that. That, you know, they were bringing a lot of girls there for sex services. And so those could be those girls. So I am gonna. I have to figure out how to do it in, like, an ethical way, but try to, you know, get in touch with those collective groups of people who search for missing people in Mexico and see if maybe those girls are them. I had someone try to, like, find who they were, like, social media pages, and we couldn't find anything.

[B]

Yeah, I. I wonder also, as well, because it's a.

[A]

And it's also important to keep in

[B]

mind that was running the Kidnapping pregnant women, too.

[A]

Yeah. But also important to keep in mind that at this place, like, there was a ton. I found a ton of bottles of lube and Viagra. So if it was, like, just men there. I mean, unless they were gay. But there's the photos of women kidnapping

[B]

women, bringing them back. Yeah. That's crazy, man. And, like, go ahead.

[A]

You look at the pictures of those girls. Like, they're not from, like, high socioeconomic backgrounds. You know, it's like a. It's a. A looks like. Could be a victim of. Yep. Yeah.

[B]

Do we have. By the way, I forgot to ask you this earlier. Ever since they arrested La Diabla to take down that ring, do we have evidence that things like that with, you know, trafficking babies and stuff is still continuing?

[A]

No, it seems like it. That was, like, that extortion ring that was operating. It and a few other young women, like, even some minors have been arrested for also working with her. Yeah, yeah. They were the ones responsible for a

[B]

lot of, like, so they would lure them. Oh, it's horrible. Death penalty. That's horrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What about. You know, since Trump came in, obviously the border's tighter, so that was part of the reason they're finding new rackets to make money. How is the border right now as it pertains to, like. Like, even just CGNJ getting in or CJNG getting in. Drugs to America? Are they just getting creative with different ways to do it, or is their volume Severely impacted.

[A]

It's not severely impacted. It's about the same numbers spiked again in November. But that's also just. That doesn't really mean anything in my opinion. Like, that. That. That just happens.

[B]

Just happens?

[A]

Yeah. Like, seizure numbers spiked, but I never really trust seizure numbers. And I did, like, a whole substack article on. Because. Just because, like, they caught more or they caught less doesn't mean that the volume that's actually being trafficked is any different. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So to me, like, when I look at seizure numbers, like, I rarely report on it because I just don't think that it has any really, like, substantial ground to say, like, oh, my God, they're trafficking so much more just because, you know, maybe for that month, a bunch more reason, a bunch of more operations were deployed by BP or something like that.

[B]

And also, you could look at it the other way if you wanted to, but I think it's has the same problem as what you just pointed out in this direction. And that is it's like, oh, well, that means they're getting more of it and they're catching more of it. But it's also like, like you said, what's the real volume that they're even going after each month and what's getting through that they don't know about? Valid. All right, real quick now I got to go to the bathroom, but let's come back and talk Ryan Wedding, because that was crazy.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Right back. All right, we're back. So since you and I last talked, Ryan Wedding, as you alluded to earlier, was caught as I'm gonna have you do a review of just like, who he is for some people who may be unfamiliar or need to be re familiarized with it. But you did say that you didn't think he would get caught. I didn't, but he. Apparently they were. You know, there were. There was a lot of, like, misinfo around it. Like, did he surrender himself or was he actually caught how it went down, what the agreement was. So let's start with who he was and then what happened here.

[A]

So Ryan Wedding was a Canadian Olympic athlete who then became a bouncer. He's actually from the same city as me. He's from Bank. Well, he's from Thunder Bay, Ontario, but then grew up just outside of Vancouver.

[B]

Apple don't fall too far from the tree.

[A]

And he comes from

[B]

off. Hey, you're covering it. He's doing it. He's getting the Yang.

[A]

I know. We honestly aren't that different.

[B]

That's Right, You're going to go around that corner.

[A]

And he's from actually a. A really prominent family in Canada. They had a ski resort. His dad is an engineer. And then they moved to bc, to Coquitlam, which is like a suburb right outside of Vancouver, which is where he went to school. He was in, like gifted programs. Super smart kid growing up. Obviously skied really well because he went to the Olympics. He went to Salt lake, I think 2002.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Don't think he placed. And then ended up working as a bouncer at a nightclub in Vancouver where he made a lot of contacts with Hell's Angels criminals. You know how that goes. It's like textbook.

[B]

No, that is textbook.

[A]

So starts trafficking, goes to Southern California for like, kind of one of the bigger drops of the beginning of his career. Gets caught, goes to jail, or, you know, drug trafficker. University.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Makes amazing connections. Starts, gets connected with the Colombians, the Americans. This is also the time when marijuana is still illegal. And British Columbia, where he was living, has some of the best marijuana in the world, B.C. bud. So he, he gets. Makes all the context, starts doing this trafficking. Fast forward. I mean, I could go on and on, right? Oh, he. Yeah. So then he goes to Mexico, aligns himself very well with the Chapitos, like

[B]

the late 2000s kind of deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At this point.

[A]

Huh. Aligns himself really well with the Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel.

[B]

Now why did they bring him into the inner sanctum? This gringo from Canada, obviously, like you said, he has access to, you know, BC bud, but they got a lot of bud.

[A]

See, I have a lot to say about this because obviously I had been like studying wedding very thoroughly and I think. Okay, for the cultural aspect and the trust, actually, let's start with his intellect. He was very smart. I think that he was very good at making contacts with the Chinese, Colombians and Mexicans and then the Hell's Angels. And so he was able to really prove that he could up profit trafficking under the radar, moving a lot of product. Basically the textbook way to move up the ranks in the drug trafficking world. Aside from that, I think in a sense, like, he was kind of like me in a way where he, he knew how to just assimilate into the culture. He got along with these people, he knew how to chat with them. He married a Mexican woman, they had kids together. He was also very violent and had a really big ego, which can take you a long way, obviously, in this world. And he knew how to take people out that he was worried about. And so the Chapitos really trusted him because he made a lot of money. He had had or has a very high iq, and this is someone that they knew could connect them with the right people and keep operations running and. And make it even more lucrative than they already had. He was a good nexus for North America.

[B]

Right. At what point did he start becoming like a.

[A]

A top dog?

[B]

Not even just that we. There's like 40 or 50 murders that are allegedly attributed to him. And that's.

[A]

I think it's a lot more.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Right. At what point did he cross that Rubicon and start becoming a dude ordering people's heads off?

[A]

I think pretty early on. Yeah, I think it was pretty early on in his career where he wanted people to know not to cross him, not to. With him. And I think that it got to a point where even the Chinese were scared of him. And the Chinese do business very differently than the Mexicans. They're very low key and they're very money oriented and ideological. Oriented. Yeah, oriented ideologically. And so I think when he put out a hit on a Chinese person was when there was some sort of, you know, realization that, okay, he is not to be crossed.

[B]

Who was the Chinese guy that he put a hit on? Oh, we're not saying.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it someone.

[A]

It's someone where. That I. I got. From a source. Got it. That's, you know, in that same world that I cannot. Okay, dime out.

[B]

All right. Did the guy die? Did he put the hit on him and. And the guy died.

[A]

The guy was murdered.

[B]

Right. So the hit happened. Meaning was it someone. I don't know if you can say this. If you can't, no problem. Is it someone directly connected, like Chinese government?

[A]

I don't know. I. That I actually don't know. Okay. But there was supposed to be some business that was done and it just didn't work out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Anyways, wedding, you know, he has his family, but he also has a lot of nexus in Colombia. He starts working with this one woman who's basically a madame, who helps him run business and take out hits. He starts dating this girl Daniela. She was, I think, actually working for the madame as a prostitute. They get together. He almost uses Daniela, like, as a honeypot in a lot of circumstances is to, you know, be friends with so and so's girlfriend so that we can get close to them and see where they really stand or take out a hit on them. Daniela has really bad opsec, a Colombian bbl, Baddie probably isn't gonna have great opsec.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No hate. But honestly, just.

[B]

It's a fair point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she looked good, though.

[A]

She did. She's a body a lot of those in Colombia. Baddie behind bars. Yeah.

[B]

That's talent.

[A]

That'd be a great series if anyone wants to pick that up.

[B]

Actually, I might watch that.

[A]

I think a lot of people.

[B]

Sounds pretty good. Deep. Let's work on it.

[A]

Hey, that's my idea.

[B]

Baddie behind larceny. Yeah, something. We'll come up with it.

[A]

Yeah, that's my idea.

[B]

Listen, you just said it on the Julian Dory podcast, so we now own the ip, but please continue, for the love of God.

[A]

Whatever. Anyways, so Ryan wedding becomes a big target for the United States. And to my knowledge, the United States had actually been tracking him for a while and knew where he was. But for the Mexicans, he wasn't a top priority. And there needed to be, obviously, cooperation in order for them to get him.

[B]

Why did the Mexicans not have a top priority on a gringo who had come across the border their place?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I would think that would be their guy. Be like, oh, easy.

[A]

Great fall guy, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it was, but I, I, I think that also Ryan had a lot of really powerful people on his payroll and so that kind of kept the attention off of him or people were like, wary of going after him. And he was known to be very violent. Now here's the thing. His last residence was literally in a very high end gated community in Mexico City.

[B]

Out in the open, effectively, yeah.

[A]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase. About 4 in 10 people taking MGLIS achieved itch relief in clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[B]

Hemplis Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebgliss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis, allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Eglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[A]

Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit ebglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-LilyRx or 1-800-545-5979. And that's one thing we know about Wedding. He had a very big ego. I'd also like to clarify that. That whole Instagram page that came out about him.

[B]

Oh, AI is not real.

[A]

And everyone was like, fell for that. Everyone. The Mexican president fell for it.

[B]

She did.

[A]

In her morning press conference. She said, of course he gave himself up. He posted a picture of himself in front of the embassy and then tried to blame it on Meta for not putting an AI sticker on it.

[B]

God, that was so obviously AI bro. It was like, hello, my name is Ryan. I mean, I could see them writing it in Pakistan. Yeah, you know.

[A]

Oh, my God, it was so brutal. And then I got a ton of hate because I was like, if any of you believe that this is real. I mean, the one photo, he was wearing, like, a hublot and it's upside down. And I'm like, like, my guy wedding would never be caught dead in a hublo. He's a Rolex guy. People were like, shut up.

[B]

What was. And they do put out a fucking hilarious tweet about that. I forget what he said.

[A]

Him and I were going back and forth that whole time.

[B]

It's like, I have. He said, I have something to sell you, but it was funny as fuck. He's like, if you think this is real, I wish I had it, but I can't remember it.

[A]

He's so funny, and he gets so much shit.

[B]

Oh, it's awesome.

[A]

And when him and I collaborate, people are like, why would you have him on? He's so funny. Like, how can I not?

[B]

Funniest and the nicest guy ever. I love Jeff.

[A]

He's super nice. Yeah, great dude. He know.

[B]

And really, like, you know, no one's perfect with stuff. He covers a lot of different things,

[A]

but he's not an idiot.

[B]

But Jeff knows his way around a lot of man for sure. Like, I'm impressed with his. With his cartel knowledge on stuff. But anyway, you were saying. So he becomes. At some point there in the 2010s, he's like a topish dog kind of deal. And he got to the FBI. 10 most wanted in the last few years, right?

[A]

Yeah. And I had been talking about it, and everyone's like, nobody knows this guy. And I'm like, well, you're about to.

[B]

They do now.

[A]

And now they do. And everyone was, like, flipping out about it. And I was like, I told you guys. Yeah, sorry. Now that's my age showing. I told you, right Now.

[B]

Does Cash Patel pay you in cash or a check in the mail?

[A]

It's like a massage transfer through his girlfriend. What is that? Why was that, like, the worst thing I've done?

[B]

That's funny. We might get sued now. That was. It's a joke.

[A]

Oh, because she does sue people for that.

[B]

It's a joke. She would never be involved in such endeavors.

[A]

But she is.

[B]

Damn it, Cat, I'm trying to. Look. Trying to help you out.

[A]

I'm also a girl who likes medium ugly guys, but sister. Okay, let's be. For.

[B]

That's a bridge, too. Just saying, one eye is going one way, the other guy's going another. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

I can't believe that was the most out of pocket thing that you thought I said, because she. But she actually does take legal action, huh?

[B]

She does. Should she sue?

[A]

I think cb no. She sued a podcaster.

[B]

Candace Owens. Was that it?

[A]

No, she.

[B]

Oh. Who's the guy France sued?

[A]

Candace Owens.

[B]

Who? Chisu specifically. Kyle Seraphin. I don't know who that is. Elijah Schaefer. I don't think I know who that is either. Samuel Parker. I thought that was a meme account. Samuel Parker. Isn't that, like, the fat meme?

[A]

No, he's a former Utah Senate Republican Party primary candidate.

[B]

I'm thinking of someone different. Okay. Podcaster. Yeah. Yeah. So. Oh, that's. We're just making jokes here, bro.

[A]

If I sued everyone for who came at me saying some like this. This.

[B]

That. You can't. That's.

[A]

Grow a backbone. Get a hobby. Okay? Like, literally less embarrassing if you download Candy Crush and play it for four hours a day. Come on. If I was her, I would have leaned into it. But then you can't.

[B]

That one you might not be able to lean into, but, like, just let it go.

[A]

Like, who cares? It's so much.

[B]

You're not marrying the guy for love.

[A]

And also, like, you know. Oh, my God. See, you're on the same page with me. I mean, come on, look at him and, like, listen to him, bro.

[B]

Videos of him with the hockey team,

[A]

dude, him doing that presser after Ryan wedding, being like, yeah, we got him. And you can't even hear him because he decided to do it on tarmac. I'm like, just shut up. Oh, my God. And the way he tried to make it seem like. Like he caught him red handed.

[B]

He's got to be in front of every camera anytime they do something, bro.

[A]

Everyone in the FBI must have been like, shut up.

[B]

Yeah. And like, when you. The FBI was so broken. To be very clear, when he got in there, there were so many problems in there. It's not to say every agent's bad or anything, but there were so many rogue cells in there. But, like, you know, with him running it, I get it. If there's people who have been there a long time, even if I don't like them, who are like, come on, man. Man. Like, it's just. It. It. He's watching incompetency in public at. At. At every turn. So with this one, like you said, he comes out. Wasn't he like, on the plane with him or something? Like, coming down with him?

[A]

They literally rode the plane back together. And I can almost guarantee you he was like, bro, like, I know you're a criminal, but, like, mad respects, bro, Bro. Like that Daytona. Oh, my God. My authorized dealer just, like, put me on a wait list.

[B]

Can we get a selfie?

[A]

100. He did 100. You think he didn't take a fucking selfie with wedding?

[B]

I'll see you in Valhalla, brother. Oh, my God. Oh, that's so good, bro.

[A]

You're fucking.

[B]

I'm gonna reject him when he's gone because it is a lot of fun to make fun of him. That part I'm gonna miss.

[A]

It's entertainment.

[B]

He's not even a moving target. He's just still. But you don't know where to aim because this eye is looking at the fractals and that one's, you know, it's like, whoa, wait a minute. It gets you all disoriented. And like, when they put you in those, like, fake drunk goggles, you're like, where is he?

[A]

Yeah. I almost feel like they probably just captured him so Cash could have a little, like, shindig with him.

[B]

That's right. So what happened, though? Like, what do we know and what are we unsure of? Up to this?

[A]

I'm. I'm actually sure about exactly what happened.

[B]

Let's put it on the record. Cameron, Rena Schultz.

[A]

So he was basically strong armed by the US Government into surrendering himself and

[B]

how did they do that?

[A]

There was something close, like, personal to him that they used against him. I can't say it. And he said, okay, and gave himself up.

[B]

Did he have any kind of agreement with them for certain punishments that would be offered?

[A]

I don't know, but I'm under the impression that. Yes.

[B]

So maybe he's like, all right, I can do 20 years. I'll tell you what you want.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. And so some people were saying, like, oh, the chapitos betrayed him, gave him up. That did not happen. People were saying, oh, no, he didn't surrender himself. They actually went in and grabbed him. But no, it was. He. He did surrender. And obviously, like, Cash Patel was in Mexico City when it happened. They tried to say, like, he was going for something else. When the. Does Cash Patel ever go to Mexico City? What are you laughing at?

[B]

No, I. No, it's a good. It's a good point. I. I don't know why Cash Patel

[A]

would be in Mexico City, vacations in Tel Aviv, leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't help it.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

Oh. Because then I do. You don't have to do it, right?

[B]

No, we've done it. It's just funny to hear someone else do it.

[A]

I mean, come on.

[B]

I always have to say, like, don't sue me. It's. It's just a joke.

[A]

But you can sue me.

[B]

I don't give a. I know you don't.

[A]

I live in Mexico. What are you gonna do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come get you, Extract me.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I mean, maybe a great story.

[B]

Maybe it. That would help your brand.

[A]

Yeah. Massage just distracted me from Mexico. And it was Mossad in the shape of Cash Patel.

[B]

In the shape of Cash Patel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How Hindu of you. Okay.

[A]

Is he even Hindu?

[B]

I don't know. This has gone too far. Okay. It's not the personal Cash. Oh, my God. Funny. I'll just never forget him going on Sean Ryan show and saying, if I were put in charge of the FBI, I would turn the J. Edgar Hoover building into a museum. Day one. It's like, no, you won't.

[A]

Did he go on Sean before or after me?

[B]

Before. Yeah. Yeah. He went on before he got into

[A]

the administration when I went on Sean. He makes you sign a wall. And I. If I had seen Cash's name, I just would have put in in brackets like, massad lover.

[B]

Brought the spunk today. I appreciate it.

[A]

Well, I also know that, like, especially, I mean, mean, you know, I, I. It's. It's mostly this operation, the wedding operation that. Where I was like, shut up, Cash. Like, I know a lot of people, especially a lot of girls that I know were like, cash. After the whole hockey room thing, that was the cringiest.

[B]

I don't know if I've ever had in. In the. At least in the past year, more secondhand embarrassment for a public figure than watching that video. That was like, watching the kid whose parents locked him up and made him play, like, one of his six instruments to get into college for 18 years. And then he gets there and he's like, all right, guys, let's go. Hard. It was. Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. And I know, like, a lot of my girlfriends were like, e. Like. And now I hate him. And I'm like, it took me.

[B]

Ladies, where you been?

[A]

Hey, you ever heard of a guy named Ryan Wedding?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. You see him walk off the plane with Cash and that FBI agent? Next time. Yeah. Anyway. Anyways, so, yeah, Ryan did surrender, and

[B]

that caught everyone off guard, though, obviously.

[A]

Yeah, I thought I. I thought they were going to kill him. Yeah. I didn't think that they were gonna arrest him. I thought they were gonna kill him. And I actually have reason to believe that. That. That was.

[B]

Yeah, but if he shows up to surrender outside of a police station, they can't just blow him away.

[A]

No, they weren't going to do it like that. They. If he surrendered, they were going to get him. But I thought that they were going

[B]

to just throw him out of the plane on the way to America.

[A]

No, I. I thought that maybe, you know, hypothetically, he would be. Maybe. No, you know what? I'm not going to say it.

[B]

Okay. You blue balls, us. That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Sorry, I can't.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

Especially because with the wedding stuff, I've had so many, like, sources that I've been talking to that are just, like, super close to it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That I just don't want to lose any of that.

[B]

Where is he right now?

[A]

In California.

[B]

Do we have, like, a upcoming court date where we're gonna.

[A]

Should be?

[B]

Yeah, let's pull that up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's federal court. Right.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

So there's no cameras in there.

[A]

No.

[B]

I hate that.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

They gotta change that.

[A]

That's court in Canada, too.

[B]

He first appeared in the United States federal court on Monday, January 26, 2026, and pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. March 24 in court again on February 11, and his trial is scheduled. Whoa, that's a fast trial. Trials beginning March 24th.

[A]

Yeah, they just arrested.

[B]

This is like, an international criminal drug conspiracy. And the trial started. That's a. Yeah, speedy trial, baby. That took the words out of my mouth. Thief. Very constitutional. Nothing's happening there. That's weird. Epstein's been like 12 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And also like, Diddy was. Got all kinds of shit because he was moving up his trial and pushing it for it to happen early, and it happened 10 months after he was arrested. And that was all here.

[A]

This was right away way. Yeah.

[B]

What are we missing? Katarina Schultz?

[A]

I don't know. I'm. I'm curious to see if he's going to dime people out. I know that he was pissed off that his ex right hand man, Andrew Clark, who's also in jail, dimed him out, like, gave a lot of information on him. He sang like a canary. I don't know if he will. His lawyer Columbo said that. He's not talking. He's not talking.

[B]

Second, but I think lawyer's not actually named Colombo.

[A]

It is. It's. And he's a very famous lawyer.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

His. He's. He's like a mob boss lawyer. Really?

[B]

Jeff knows him with a name like Columb. Of course Jeff knows him with a name like Colombo. Come on. Yeah. What's Ryan Weddings lawyer's name. Anthony Colombo, whose grandfather Joe Colombo was a long. Wow. Yeah. You can't make that shit up. This is Joe Colombo's grandson representing him in court. Your Honor, my guy is fucking innocent, okay? He never did a goddamn thing. Nothing. And he's not saying shit to the prosecutors. Oh, my God. That's awesome. I thought that was a joke.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, that's him. Oh, okay. So we're monitoring the situation.

[A]

That's all we're doing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Has there been any.

[A]

But I did want to clarify, like, his capture because, like, everyone, so many people are like, no, they, they. He did not surrender. He did.

[B]

He did.

[A]

He did.

[B]

But the pictures were fake, obviously.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What has been on the ground with his business operations. Have we seen any reverberations from that?

[A]

I don't know. But a lot of people around him have been caught. Right. He had this lawyer in Canada who was basically sending him voice recordings of meetings with his adversaries to tell to. He was. This Canadian lawyer was advising Ryan Wedding on who to take out and he's been arrested. He was extradited to the U.S. actually,

[B]

can we pull that up? The lawyer was diamond out people to get hit.

[A]

He was recording meeting with Ryan's adversaries and then sending Ryan the recordings. But yeah, you got to kill this Guy.

[B]

Yo, that's a Canadian Saul Goodman right there.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

No, literally, we need that CH show.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

He's got like corny ass commercials. Gets off from the camera, calls him up, be like, yo, whack that guy.

[A]

No, literally, that's what was happening. I think he was already extradited to the us.

[B]

Sometimes real life is just even better than the movies.

[A]

No, it really is. I say that all the time.

[B]

You can't even make this up.

[A]

Reality is way more shocking than fiction. No, wrong.

[B]

Well, that's definitely, definitely. That's his girl. Business ain't a booming then how? I mean, come on. She's a corpse. Oh, my God. Whoa, whoa, listen. That's me, not you. Don't worry about it. I'll eat. No, it's just so funny that Par.

[A]

Why you say it?

[B]

What is so funny about that? That's not what I was expecting. Cocaine.

[A]

He's an Indian guy.

[B]

Somewhere Tyler Oliveira is going, look. See? Told you. All right. Deepak Paradicar, a Brampton based lawyer often referred to as the Cocaine Lawyer. We have our show name. Let's work on the script. Deep was arrested in November 2025 for his alleged role in drug trafficking and murder conspiracy. Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Led by former Canadian Olympian Ryan Wedding. We take murder very seriously here, though. In all seriousness, people, it's very bad

[A]

that he was advising murder.

[B]

The U.S. department of the treasury and Department of justice accused Parrot Carr of violating legal ethics by allowing Wedding and his associates to eavesdrop on privilege communication and assisting in a plot to kill a federal witness. Whoa.

[A]

And they did kill a dark.

[B]

That's dark as.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Par is alleged to have it to have advised Wedding to murder a federal witness, telling him, quote, if you kill the witness, the case will be dismissed. Whoa. That's actually dark as.

[A]

And he was. Look, he used his Instagram username. Username used to be cocaine. Underscore Lawyer. Lawyer.

[B]

Cocaine lawyer. I'm telling you, Instagram is just not

[A]

good for some people, dude. Okay, I know.

[B]

Posting Paradicar had previously been reprimanded by the Law Society of Ontario in 2017 for posting a photo on Instagram with the caption cocaine lawyer. 2.5 kilos of cocaine charges drop. Straight word, homie. Okay, I think I've got a Venice. But despite the severe allegation.

[A]

No, it's Canada. I know we've talked about this.

[B]

Despite the severe allegations that I just read, Parrot Carr was granted bail in Canada in December 2025 while while facing extradition to the United States you're never going to see.

[A]

So do you remember the time when I. The first time I came on your podcast and I said the best way to explain the legal justice system is if I. I tell my girlfriends. And I was joking, but I tell my girlfriends, if your boyfriend cheats on you, just kill him. Like, you're not going to do any time. Like, you'll be fine. Right. This is a perfect example of that. Like, you can commit any crime in Canada and get away with it.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Which is why the US Wants him extradited, because in Canada, he's a free man. When I was in Ukraine, I was just. Everyone was like, obviously it was Soviet Union, right? And I'm Polish. So, like, we have, like, the red fear here. And everyone in Ukraine was like, oh, Canada, socialist country in Ukraine.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're, like, scared. Yeah.

[B]

Of Canada.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a lot more pressing things to be scared.

[A]

I was like, yeah. They're like, oh, that's a Syrian.

[B]

They got like. They're all, like.

[A]

They're all, like, so concerned, and they're like, you soon Communism. Like, you have lots of Chinese there. Scary.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I mean, they're not.

[B]

I mean, they have a point.

[A]

They're not wrong.

[B]

They're not wrong, like, at all. But still, the fact that they're that worried about something halfway and they have

[A]

Russians just obliterating them. I know.

[B]

All right, so what. How do you. What was the story you did in Ukraine and what were what you see?

[A]

Oh, Colombian mercenaries that are going there to fight are being recruited by the cartels.

[B]

Yeah, they're being. All right, hold on. That was a loaded statement. The Mexican cartels are recruiting Colombians.

[A]

I mean, that have fought in Ukraine. They're good it to go to the front lines in. In Mexico to fight adversary cartels.

[B]

All right, that's not where I thought this was going.

[A]

Oh, what did you think? I was.

[B]

I thought it was the other way around. I thought you were saying the Mexican cartels were recruiting Colombian hitmen to send over to Ukraine on the front line. The Colombian hitmen are being pulled into Ukraine to fight on the front line with them, I assume with, like, Western government tax dollars.

[A]

So Colombia has the largest number of. Of foreign mercenaries in the world. So you go. You see any war in Africa or the middle anywhere, and that's. It's like a ideological thing, but it's also a money thing. So basically, there's a lot of Colombian mercenaries fighting in both Russia and Ukraine, and they go, there because they get paid, they learn drone tactics, frontline warfare, you name it. It. Now, because of this, the cartels will then contact these Colombians who fought in Ukraine, because they know that they're, like, soldiers at this point, bring them to Mexico and pay them to work for the cartels along the front lines in. In, like, shootouts and basically like, battles. Now, sbu, Ukrainian intelligence, launched an investigation in this, because what was also happening at a certain point, I think the investigation was launched last summer. Summer. What was also happening was private military companies were getting paid by the cartels to bring Colombians to Ukraine to infiltrate their training services so that they would get trained up and then go from there to Mexico. Because when you go to Ukraine as a foreign mercenary, you have to serve. I think the minimum is six months. Once your six months are done, you can get out of there. Yes.

[B]

How'd you get hooked up with this story?

[A]

Because I saw that. The SBU report.

[B]

And you just went out there?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who'd you contact? Like, just one of the guys on one of the mercenaries.

[A]

Yeah, I contacted mercenaries, and then I had, like, a local journalist who didn't know this was happening, and then they

[B]

said, come on out.

[A]

Yeah. Well, so then. And I went to a prisoner of war camp where a lot of Latin American mercenaries that were fighting alongside Russians were captured.

[B]

Can you pull up the picture from Cat's Instagram?

[A]

Oh, I got.

[B]

Yeah, I think I saw this.

[A]

I had to blur their faces because it breaks the Geneva Convention.

[B]

It br. What do you mean? You see the one right there?

[A]

It goes against. No, no, those are. It's the next one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're all blurred.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This one.

[B]

What was the one we were just looking at? That was the one I was talking about, the one in the snow.

[A]

Oh, this is the prisoner of war camp. The other one is. Was a training.

[B]

So this is Ukrainian prisoner of war camp where they're holding Russian soldiers who happen to be Latin American mercenaries.

[A]

Yeah. There was also African guys there.

[B]

Go back to the other one.

[A]

It was, like, very international.

[B]

And then the one before that, there's

[A]

Latin American guys here, too. You see some of them actually have the Colombian flag. I don't know if you can see it in that photo, but they're. This is where they're being trained to then go to the front lines.

[B]

Okay, so you're at the training camp.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say, what

[B]

was it like there? Were you, like, afraid? Did you see fighting in the distance?

[A]

So a lot of people. If you've seen this photo, in the previous photo, a lot of people were like, this is AI. And they're not wrong. I actually had to use like a AI blurring tool for their faces and for the skyline. So you can see the trees in the back are like, mangled. But it's actually Ukrainian law that press cannot, or even like, if you're on tick tock or whatever, you cannot post anything that can identify military infrastructure in Ukraine.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So, yeah. And people were like, this is fake. And like, it's not fake. It's just that I literally could be in big shit for this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I had to abide by their standards, which is fair enough. I mean, you know, it's a war zone. It's a country protecting itself from invasion. I think following this assignment was actually scarier than actually being there, because then I had a lot of Russian people somehow get my phone number, email reaching out to me, being like, like, we want you to tell us how Ukraine is arming the cartels. Which is not the story.

[B]

Because the story.

[A]

The story is that the cartels are exploiting a war that already has very little resources. And so the Ukrainians are very much against this. Right. Having people who are using their warfare experience in Ukraine to then go and arm criminal organization. But of course, Russian propaganda is trying to take the story that I'm pursuing and use it against Ukraine. And I really don't want that to happen. But sometimes with like this, you just can't help it. I'll actually show you something that's really freaky.

[B]

It's amazing how much like, like this is what I mean. It's Russia and Ukraine fighting. Right. But there's money coming from all over the world, from east and west, west proxies fighting both sides. There's help, army help coming from said places without necessarily it being their own countrymen in some cases. And then you have this underbelly business of the money that's being funded into it being used to ship in mercenary soldiers from wherever the. To fight in the middle. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And it's been going on for over four years.

[A]

It is. And this year was particularly bad because it's the coldest winter in Ukraine in the last 15 years. And it's the first year in the war where Russia has attacked all the power plants. So we had no heat or water.

[B]

Wait a second. They attacked all the power plants?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was that a cyber attack or was it.

[A]

No, no, no. They bombed them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And so I would literally sleep in that Fucking jacket.

[B]

How long were you there?

[A]

Like three weeks.

[B]

How did you get in?

[A]

I took a fucking 18 hour train from Barshaba to Kiev, Kiev from Poland

[B]

to Kiev, and there wasn't any. Oh, yeah.

[A]

On the train in, we had to sit for like three hours, which is why it ended up being so long because Russia was bombing the railways.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

And keep in mind, I'm in this ass Soviet train, literally. So from the Soviet Union, where it's three tight bunk beds in one little carriage.

[B]

No meal service? No meal service.

[A]

No, no. But thankfully, on the train in, I was actually with this older Ukrainian couple and she brought everything to make sandwiches and we couldn't even communicate. For some reason, I was under the impression that I could just work, like, communicate in Polish with them and they're like, no, we speak Ukrainian. I'm like, sorry, but okay, I wanted to show you this. And this stressed me out, I'm not going to lie. So let me show the camera. Can you. Okay. So this was my Instagram following demographic for, like, ever.

[B]

Can you see it?

[A]

Thief. You have LA, NY. So basically almost 90% of my following is American. Now. Pass me this.

[B]

Can I see it real quick? Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Oh, the screen went dark. Why'd you. Okay, now this is what my Instagram demographic looks like now of profile views.

[B]

Oh, boy. Yeah, you're on the flowchart.

[A]

Moscow, St. Petersburg.

[B]

Putin's like, this. This girl's gotta go. She's a problem.

[A]

Like, actually, don't go back there. I'm not.

[B]

I'm serious.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

Yeah, that's wild. I can't ever go there either.

[A]

So basically I knew that I was already blacklisted from Russia, like, for. Since the beginning of the war, because I was actually working in legacy media at the beginning of the war, like in a Canadian newsroom room and was putting out reports on it. And obviously, like, anyone who spoke against the Russian invasion was basically blacklisted from going to Ukraine, especially if you're a journalist right now, or sorry, to Russia. So now though, because I was there and then also I interviewed prisoners of war who told me. So Russia is offering foreign mercenaries a lot more money than Ukraine offers them. But these mercenaries who are going to Russia never actually get paid. They're being used as human shields by the Russians. I've been sent videos, literally from telegram of Russians who have, like African mercenaries. And they're like, obviously being very racist and being like, this guy is me. Like, we just use him to. And obviously these guys don't know what they're saying they don't speak Russian.

[B]

Right? Nuts.

[A]

Yeah. And so the cartels are exploiting this because now maybe I can show you a video actually of this guy who's gotten some popularity. He's a Colombian guy who was fighting the war in Russia or in Ukraine and now he's on the front lines with CG and G. Imagine Colombia's climate

[B]

and you got to go to Ukraine in the middle of urban warfare and forest warfare in the dead of winter. That survive the Ukraine and it's like, all right, go do it in Colombia. Yeah. And then you get murk the second you get home. What are you giving me, Cat?

[A]

Again, this guy. So here this guy was fighting in Ukraine as a foreign mercenary and has now been recruited by the cartels and is in Michoacan shooting up.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, I'm not going to show this video on there.

[A]

Is it violent? And he says it in the video. He's like, from Ukraine to Mexico.

[B]

That's nuts. Yeah, I knew nothing about this. So this doc, a lot of people out now, right?

[A]

No, not yet. It's coming out I think this month. It's a pain in the ass to edit because I was given so much access, but I have to fucking blur so much stuff.

[B]

You're doing the editing?

[A]

No, absolutely not.

[B]

So it's a pain in someone else's ass.

[A]

It is, but I have to check everything because the editor obviously didn't go with us and I have to really make sure otherwise I will never be able to go to the country again and I'll probably face legal action.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know if I'd go back if I were you. Like I said, I feel like that's a one and doner.

[A]

So I asked my. I had hired someone to be vixer and translator and he started spoke both Ukrainian and Russian because he was born in Soviet Union in a place where you had to learn Russian. And I said, you know, how bad would it be if I try to get into Russia? And he goes, you'll have a one way ticket to Moscow and you're done. Because also what Russia is doing is there's obviously these prisoner of war transfers. Right. And so if they take someone like me, I'm a high value target to then be able to get a bunch of prisoners, political and prisoners of war. War back into Russia and they use me as an exchange.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I really don't want that.

[B]

I don't want that either. That's. But stay away.

[A]

Yeah, it was, it was very Sad to be. I mean, okay, to be fair, too, there are a lot of foreign mercenaries there who are good soldiers, who are there because they believe that the. The Russian invasion is bad and they. They want to help Ukrainians. And Ukraine is like. Like the Latin American country of Europe. Honestly, the cultures are very similar, the mindset, they're very resilient people. And so a lot of the Latin American mercenaries that go there really identify with them and get really close to them. So they're not all like this. But this was enough of a problem for sbu, essentially, Ukraine, CIA, to open up an investigation into. Was also very hard for me to interview political figures about this because their concern, of course, was Russia's going to use this against us. And I already see it happening. I mean, my email has been bombarded with Russian propaganda news outlets being like, can we have you on to talk about how Ukraine is arming the cartels? And it's like, well, that's not what's happening. Right. The angle matters here. And what's happening is cartels are exploiting a war. I mean, in Ukraine, fucking in. Obviously, there's no airports, right? So we have to drive around everywhere, take a train. The roads are absolutely destroyed. They're like Mexican roads. Why? Because all of the resources are going to the war effort.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not to, you know, regular repairments of an city infrastructure.

[B]

Jesus Christ, what a mess. Every time I think this thing can't be a bigger mess. And by the way, we were talking about it yesterday on a podcast, but you got that the casualties are up at an estimated 1.8 million. At this point, the deaths are somewhere between 500,000.

[A]

It's like, I interviewed one woman whose son died, and she said, we're not going to have any men left in our country.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And I felt horrible for her. And then, you know, there's this also other narrative coming from Americans, too. And I. I saw. I was told about something that happened, an unnamed. Which I should just say it, but I had a sort of prominent American journalist wanted an interview with a Ukrainian politician. And when the Ukrainian politician was like, I can't. Whatever, he kind of grabbed him and said, well, I pay for your war. You owe me an interview. And it's someone you would never guess.

[B]

That's kind of wild.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that.

[B]

I mean, it's. It's got. It's got. It's got to stop, though. There has. You have to have. Especially the whole west is funding it, so they. They call the shots Not Ukrainians, not the Ukraine government, because there is no war without the west funding it. And they got to be, oh, Ukraine

[A]

would be Russia right now.

[B]

Yeah, you got to be the bigger man here. You don't have to like Putin at all. But, like, you can't just keep trying to make a point with people's lives because you hate Putin now that much. Like, make some sort of compromise here and end this. People are dying.

[A]

Yeah, but the peace treaty is not a peace treaty whatsoever.

[B]

What?

[A]

The Trump's proposed peace treaty to end the war. It's. Or the agreement. I'm pretty sure it's called the peace treaty. It's literally just to let Putin take over, that everyone in Ukraine has to speak Russian, and then Putin will never stop. Putin wants. It's only the Soviet Union talking about

[B]

the Don bastard region, where most of them already do speak Russian, but they're not Russian. But a lot of them do identify

[A]

as Russian, but a lot of them don't. And a lot of people I met who speak Russian from that region refuse to speak Russian. Refuse. When I made my fixer, when we went to that POW camp and I wanted to interview this one of the prisoners who spoke Russian, I was like, oh, I want to interview him. And my fixer was like, but I think he speaks Russian. And I said, but you speak Russian. And he's like, okay. They reject it. And I understand it. And a lot of people who are not from or have ties to Eastern Europe will not fully understand it, but it's complicated. Soviet Union was horrible, and everyone rejects it. My babcha, my grandma who lived in Soviet Union was like, this is the worst possible outcome for anyone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She renounced her Polish passport just because she was so afraid that the Soviet Union would come back. Back. And she's been living in Canada for. I can, Like, a long time. Probably like 50 years at this point.

[B]

No, I. I get it. And. And the argument here is not. It's not like, oh, is. Is Putin not that bad? Or whatever. Like, Putin. Putin is. Is. Is what he is. He's a dictator. You can go look at his record. He kills his political opponents. Always has. But he's not. He's not a dummy.

[A]

No, he's not.

[B]

He's not.

[A]

The same goes for, like, Ryan Wedding or Mention or whoever we're talking about at the cartels, but just because you're smart.

[B]

Totally different, though. No, it's.

[A]

It is totally different. But a high IQ person, they.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Still be an evil person.

[B]

There has to be a way here. Though, because at the end of the day, and I always cite this, Russia's GDP is the size of Italy. Okay? So there is a limit to no matter what power he wants, there's a limit to what they can do. It is different than like when Hitler was going across Europe with the fastest growing gdp, the best military in the world, the best technology. It's a different kind of thing. And that's a tough pill for people to swallow. But like my number one thing is let's stop people dying. And if there's a way to do that, some cooler heads got to prevail. And yeah, it's got to be better than whatever's been proposed to this point that seems like they're not trying hard enough and anyone, anyone to get it across. A lot of Ukraine, the last administration just wanted fucking go on forever.

[A]

A lot of Ukrainian people I spoke to would honestly rather die fighting for the sovereignty than succumb to Russia.

[B]

Yeah, but I think there's ways to do it without succumbing to Russia. And unfortunately what that is going to require is some sort of NATO compromise as well. And they don't want to hear that. And I understand why they don't want to hear that. But if they do that, that, and then Putin decides to break something two, three years from now, they will have the full right to as NATO to go in there and wreck them.

[A]

And it'll be interesting how it changes now because Russia was backed by or has been backed by Iran for a lot of it. Like Iran supplied the shahed drones to Russia, which Ukraine doesn't have anything comparable to that. And now what we're seeing, I don't know how what that's going to look like, to be honest either. Anyways, the point is the cartels have transnational nexus between every possible hostile environment, political economy you could ever imagine.

[B]

And you know what sucks. But unfortunately it's like making the case for it. We wonder why spy agencies, instead of trying to stop the cartels, use them as a vehicle. This is why.

[A]

Why this is a perfect example of that.

[B]

You don't think there's some sources and of course there are. Come on, there's a million of them. You probably talk to five, probably. You know what I mean?

[A]

I mean, some people I spoke to, it was this one guy, he was a Brazilian guy, he worked in tech in Brazil and then he said he allegedly got a fake job offer to go work in St. Petersburg and then they ended up throwing him on the front lines to fly drones. But it was very Obvious to me that he was lying, that he had insane drone capacities and he wanted to go over there to make money and fly drones. He ended up getting captured by Ukrainian forces.

[B]

What about the guys you were talking to in the prisoner camp from, like, a human rights perspective? What were your observations?

[A]

Well, it seemed as though they were very much following the Geneva Convention, but it was also very controlled, what we were shown. So we were given a tour. But then also, like, at one point, there were. The Geneva Convention was, like, printed out and laminated on the wall, but it was, like, all in English.

[B]

You're talking to the guy and, like, Ben Stiller from Happy Gilmore's behind him.

[A]

Like, and then at one point, so, yeah, okay, so they were. We were shown and told, you know, they're given three meals a day. They're showered. We actually were given bread to eat that the prisoners made.

[B]

Oh, this sounds like a. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It was, like, interesting, to say the least. And then at one point, mean, we have this on camera. And I'm not, you know, I, I, I hope that Ukraine, you know, can beat this invasion. Like, I just want to make that clear. I do not support Russia at all. But we went to be shown, like, the recreational room where, like, they watch TV or whatever, and it's like this little room probably, like, around this size, and it's, like, lined with chairs, and they had all the prisoners sitting down, looking at a black TV that wasn't plugged in. In, like, silence. Please stop. Because, Because I walk in and my cameraman is behind me, and I'm like, what is this? And, like, at the same time, our translator is translating from, like, the guards and the head of the prison, and they're like, this is where they watch. And then I'm like, but they're not watching tv. And, like, and I'm processing it as I'm watching it. And then the guard, like, freaks out and is like, you at least turn on the tv. You guys make me look like a idiot. Like, starts yelling. Translator was, like, telling me he was super good, right? And I burst out laughing.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I felt so bad. But it just, it looked so bad. And I'm like, come on, guys. Like, get it together.

[B]

Turn the propaganda up.

[A]

Like, it just looked really bad. But I mean, on. But I also interviewed a lot of. Okay, so this is where it gets complicated, because journalistic standards and ethics in terms of interviewing prisoners of war war is very complicated. And so this was certainly the most complicated assignment I've ever done in my life. Because technically, when you're interviewing prisoners of war. It can be done. It's typically done under duress. They don't have a choice. And as the journalist, you may not know that because the guards are telling them you're gonna talk to them or you're not like eating for a week. Right. And you have to tell them positive things. And so when I was talking to the prisoners of war one on one, they brought me one guy into this office that we were interviewing them and there were two guards in there. So it was me, my cameraman, my fixer slash translator, and two guards. And he's like, the prisoner is very nervous and he sits down, he's Colombian. And I start speaking to him in Spanish and he's like, I don't, I don't know, like if I want to talk to you. And I was like, okay, I understand that. And, and the guard, as we're talking in Spanish, you can hear her doing the Google Translate on her phone. Like, you know when you hit the microphone button and he's like looking at them and I just turn and my transit. I'm like, you got to tell the guards to get the out. Yeah. And someone from the Ministry of Defense came with us because we needed federal like permission to be there. But at this point, the guy from the Ministry of Defense kind of knew how I, how I am.

[B]

It's like this girl got elephant balls.

[A]

And the female guard looks at me and I'm like, she's translating, like. And I'm not going to talk to him with them in here. Cuz it's probably already that he doesn't have a choice to talk to me, but I want to see if I can somehow connect with him. And. But I don't want any intimidation because I'm not here to do that. Right. And so then the Ministry of Defense guy actually was like, had my back and he's like, okay, like, we'll all leave. So he gets them out. And I'm sitting with this Colombian guy and I'm like, so how do they treat you here? Which is also a question you're actually technically not supposed to ask. But you know, there were so there's so many rules when I was reading about it in the moment too. Like, you want to know things, you don't know if you're getting right information. And so I don't. It was very complicated and I, I know that I didn't operate perfectly when reporting on this situation, but I tried my best environment. It is, it really is. And so that made it very complicated. At one point, we go into a library where there was this. This guy who was kind of operating the library. He's a prisoner of war. And I go, can you. To my translator. Can you ask him if he wants to talk to me? He was, like, a very tall, handsome guy who apparently was from Ukraine and went to fight in Russia. So I thought that was weird. And then he was like, no. In Russian, speaking Russian. And the guards are all, like, staring at him. And so then they all walk out first, and I'm kind of slowly walking out, and I look at him, and he whispers to me in English. He spoke English the whole time, so there were just a lot of weird things that happened on this assignment. So. And then I went from that assignment straight to elementary crib, where, like, it just was all weird again.

[B]

Traveling the world, doing your thing.

[A]

Yeah, but it's not like, really, you know, some of my girlfriends are like. They get to go to Milan and, like, Paris. I'm at the Eiffel Tower.

[B]

I'm going to war.

[A]

So, hi, I'm in a Russian prisoner of war. I'm in the place where elementary was killed.

[B]

Like, you chose in Cat Schultz. But you're doing a good job. It's a pretty wild scoop you guys got with the men show compound and stuff, so we'll be monitoring that story. People can follow you on Instagram. We have that link below as well as X.

[A]

And then all the. All the videos of what we've just talked about will be on my podcast on Borderline Dispatches.

[B]

Excellent. We'll have that link down below as well. Thank you, as always, for coming in. Thanks for having us to cover this.

[A]

Yeah, thanks.

[B]

All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below. New Year, New me. Cute. But how about New Year, new money? With Experian, you can actually take control of your finances. Check your FICO score, find ways to save, and get matched with credit card offers, giving you time to power through those New Year's goals. You know you're gonna crush. Start the year off right. Download the Experian app based on FICO

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