#413 - "NASA Connection!" - Disturbing Missing Scientist Case Getting Weird | Lauren Conlin

Summary

Julian Dorey Podcast, Ep. 413

"NASA Connection!" - Disturbing Missing Scientist Case Getting Weird | Guest: Lauren Conlin

Date: April 24, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into the emerging and convoluted story of the so-called "Missing Scientists"—a series of mysterious deaths and disappearances among U.S. scientists, military officials, and workers in sensitive government positions over the past two years. Julian and guest journalist Lauren Conlin methodically break down the cases, question the mainstream narrative, analyze the evidence, and share reporting from both insiders and families involved. Using a mix of investigative rigor, skepticism, and pure speculation ("PURE SPEC"), the conversation explores the line between coincidence and conspiracy within current events, true crime, and government secrecy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Safety Files and Paranoia in Investigative Work

• Lauren starts by describing her "If I go missing" file, reflecting the dangers and paranoia that come with investigative journalism.
  • Quote: "The only drugs that I'll do are weed and mushrooms. So if you ever find anything else in my system, it was not me." (01:17)
• Discussion of digital and handwritten "dead man’s switches" and the permanence of digital records.

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2. Introduction to the Missing Scientists Case

• As of recording, "11 missing scientists"—but not all are actual scientists; the list includes people with access to sensitive materials, support staff, and those with varied levels of clearance.
• The case gained Lauren's interest after notable Air Force General Neil McCaslin, and his associate rocket scientist Monica Raza, vanished without a trace—with official responses strikingly vague and slow.

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3. Deep Dive: Prime Missing/Wrongful Death Cases

a. General McCaslin & Monica Raza (Pratt & Whitney)

• Both had clear professional overlap and government contracts.
  • McCaslin: Top-level military, MIT/Harvard background, “more credentialed than pretty much anyone on the planet.” (06:21)
  • Raza: Rocket scientist with co-patented alloys, deep involvement in aerospace engineering.
• Both cases: No bodies, law enforcement tight-lipped, FBI involvement.
  • Lauren: "Their disappearances are the strangest to me, the absolute strangest, because they vanished into thin air." (08:45)

b. Unusual Circumstances

• McCaslin left behind normal electronics, took only a revolver; family and neighbors, surveillance gaps.
• For both Raza and McCaslin, the location and scale of the wilderness complicate search efforts.
• Skepticism around local sheriff’s ability/resources vs. possible high-level cover-up.

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4. Case Categorization (37:05)

Julian and Lauren sort the "11" into clusters:

• Clearly Unrelated
  • Jason Thomas (Novartis scientist): Family tragedy, no security clearance. (78:07)
• Maybe Questionable:
  • Nuno Laurio (MIT Plasma Physicist): Killed by an unwell former classmate—officially "solved," but government disclosures are oddly tidy and possibly suspicious. (53:11–61:10)
• Possible/Peripheral:
  • Three non-scientists from nuclear labs (e.g., executive assistant, H.V.A.C. tech, and security head)—some with access to serious materials, but little direct evidence of foul play.
• Directly Tied / Most Disturbing:
  • McCaslin & Raza ("Red" cases): Experienced, sensitive-work scientists/officials, vanish inexplicably, overlap on projects and timelines.

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5. Skepticism Towards Media Sensationalism (79:03)

• Sensational headlines from outlets like Daily Mail muddy the public’s understanding for clicks; many cases require deeper disaggregation (“11 missing” often farfetched).
  • Lauren: "I think it's way more interesting just kind of sticking with Reza and McCaslin, because that... I don't see the issue with that." (79:22)

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6. Case-by-Case Breakdown

a. JPL/Caltech Murders

• Carl Grillmair: Astrophysicist murdered on porch by a local (Freddie Snyder) with a bizarre prior gun-related incident on same property—charges dropped “in the interest of justice,” then Snyder returns and kills Carl. Causes skepticism; Carl’s widow adamantly dismisses wider connection, though trauma may limit her awareness. (37:05–47:38)

b. MIT Plasma Physicist - Nuno Laurio

• Shot and killed by former classmate who had just committed a mass shooting at Brown University. Manifesto/transcript provided by DOJ, but lack of stated motive for Laurio's killing raises questions about the completeness and veracity of the official story. (53:11–67:12)

c. Administrative Staff/Families

• Melissa Cassius (Los Alamos): Disappeared after leaving home, phone factory reset, but family reports financial and familial stress; not likely government foul play (81:16–87:20).
• Steven Garcia (KCNSC): Security officer, last seen armed, suspected midlife/mental health crisis; unclear if foul play or self-harm (89:49–95:11)

d. Other Lab Staff

• Anthony Chavez: H.V.A.C. tech, retired, vanishes—little evidence of foul play, but unclear.
• Frank Maywald & Michael David Hicks (JPL scientists): Deaths by “natural causes” (obesity/heart problems) or unknown but not suspicious via public records.
  • Lauren: “I didn’t necessarily see anything... that would cause me to really want to dig further when there are other cases that seem to be a little more suspicious.”

e. Amy Eskridge:

• Early (2022) case revived in the narrative. Daughter of NASA scientist, exhibited paranoia/delusions before reported suicide. No government clearance, probable mental illness. (128:37–138:05)
  • Quote: “If you are saying out loud, they're gonna kill me if I do this… I don’t think necessarily the people that have information to be killed over... are going to behave that way.” (136:56)

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7. Conspiratorial Atmosphere, Government Secrecy, and Skepticism

• Real dangers for high-level scientists, history of intelligence kidnappings, but most cracks in the stories appear to have benign (or at least non-spy-thriller) explanations.
• Trouble getting coworkers/friends to talk; “unusual” lack of whistleblowers or inside info coming forward via normal journalistic channels. (60:33)
• Constant government redactions, missing files in e.g., Epstein saga—parallel to nuclear and UAP/“disclosure” fields.

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8. The Epstein Files and Systemic Cover-Ups

• Long digressions into the continued lack of transparency on the Epstein files and repeated institutional stonewalling of both public and victims.
  • Lauren: “The survivors... are not going to say anything. They’re not going to say anything.” (20:47)
• Congressional interest, political “groupthink,” and use of distraction stories to move the news cycle.
  • Julian: “It's always been the reality for humans. We all run in a crowd towards the latest noise... [But] you can walk and fucking chew gum at the same time.” (102:12–103:16)

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9. Fact vs. Speculation

• Hosts repeatedly and explicitly separate reporting (“on the record”) from speculation (“pure spec”), modeling responsible skepticism without wild accusations. (65:27)
• Refusal to “rule out” deep-state or foreign intelligence involvement—but caution against assigning agency sans evidence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “If I Go Missing” File:
  “I told my daughter's 10. I was like, if anything happens to me, there's something on my computer. You just open it up, you give it to the police... If you ever find anything else in my system, it was not me.” — Lauren (01:17)

• On Internet Outrage & Armchair Detectives:
  “We are living in an ass backwards world where somebody is a legitimate victim and people are coming at them saying they’re not doing things the way a victim should.” — Lauren (24:36)

• On Sensationalism:
  “Some of this is a headline, other parts of it are like, oh, there could be something there, but we got to stay with the facts...” — Julian (179:39)

• On Systemic Secrecy:
  “We’re never, ever getting what we want. We’re never going to get the unredacted files... What are we doing?” — Lauren (103:16)

• Biblical Alien Speculation:
  “In Ezekiel, ... a windstorm coming out of the north, four creatures with multiple faces, wheels on the ground... In my opinion, those are aliens. Come on!” — Lauren (173:58)

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Critical Timestamps

• McCaslin & Raza disappearances: 05:07–10:46
• Case Classification ("Who's Who"): 31:17–37:05
• Grillmair (JPL/caltech) murder analysis: 37:05–47:38
• MIT shooting / Plasma physicist breakdown: 53:11–61:33
• Discussion of Kevin McCarthy/White House response: 97:05–101:31
• Amy Eskridge, video analysis: 128:37–138:05
• Breakdown of Monica Raza’s final hike: 145:41–158:29
• McCaslin’s resume & disappearance review: 159:16–172:22
• Alien/UFO/Scripture tangent: 172:59–177:37

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Style and Tone

The conversation is in-depth, analytical, and alternates between wry cynicism, pure speculation, and fact-checked reporting. The hosts are candid about their gaps in knowledge, openly wrestle with the conspiratorial flavor of the times, and maintain a balance between gallows humor and the gravity of real tragedies.

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Conclusion

Julian and Lauren, through meticulous casework and honest speculation, assert that while government and media narratives around these "missing scientists" are sensationalized and rife with gaps, the true pattern is more complex—some deaths are explainable, others not so much. The cases of McCaslin and Raza, in particular, defy simple explanation and remain truly bizarre, warranting real scrutiny and further investigation. The episode serves as both a warning about media groupthink and a call for relentless, skeptical inquiry into matters of power, secrecy, and systemic abuse.

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For more updates and Lauren Conlin's ongoing investigations, links to her social media are provided in the show notes.

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This summary omits all ads, promotions, and off-topic tangents (unless part of case context or illustrating tone).

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

You got the laptop out. It must be serious.

[B]

It is. Everything is serious. I don't like the manifesto. I don't want. No, I don't. Well, I do have an if I go missing file, but you have an if I go. Of course I do. Do you know what people I piss off?

[A]

Who are you worried about?

[B]

I mean, there have been multiple people in my.

[A]

In my is around with schmoan schmoms.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I, if I open it up, it's, it's probably very interesting. I'll probably go date back to some people that I'm like, oh yeah, I

[A]

forgot now how does that work? So that's a dead woman switch. But like how does it go off? Is it like a Google Doc that says read me if I'm dead?

[B]

I basically told my husband. Even I told my daughter's 10. I was like, if anything happens to me, there's something on my computer. You just open it up, you give it to the police. Yeah, it'll. Bunch of options as to who it could be. I even have notes in there that said like, you know, I. The only drugs that I'll do are weed and mushrooms. So if you ever find anything else in my system, it is, it was not me.

[A]

Like stick with deep, it might be something else.

[B]

Well, you know, I mean, I'm just saying like it's. I spell it all out for you. Like I've done this and I've done that, but I would never do this.

[A]

You strike me as the kind of woman that does not leave any T's uncrossed or I's undotted.

[B]

I mean, I'm a little frustrated. Forgetful sometimes, I should say. Or I shouldn't say forgetful. Sorry. I'm overwhelmed with. With things. So yeah, I try not to. I. I try my hardest. So I'm the one waking up in the middle of the night writing things down or putting it in my phone. Yeah. You know when you're thinking. And I'm just like, if I don't do this now, or, yeah, write this down, I'll forget.

[A]

So I remember. You ever see the show Mad Men?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

All right, amazing. So you remember. Maybe it was like season three. I forget his name, but the one guy on the team had the idea in the middle of the night with Elisabeth Moss.

[B]

He's like, that's the greatest idea ever.

[A]

And he takes his whiskey, falls asleep, wakes up on the couch. He's like, oh, my God, it's gone. I had the best idea. And I saw that and I was like, bars. That is a sign. I need to record anytime.

[B]

I think it's going to work. No, you really do. You have to. And it's. Yeah. So I definitely. Yes, I write things down. I try to leave no stones unturned in my life, but yes.

[A]

Do you leave, like a handwritten thing behind, too, just in case the digital goes kaput?

[B]

I haven't. I haven't done that, but I have.

[A]

You're gonna do it now?

[B]

I mean, I have high hopes for the cloud. I don't know, I feel like, you know, if they. If they can. If they can get text messages and emails in Court from 2009 and Prior for certain cases, I think they can pull my. You know.

[A]

Yeah. Isn't it funny, like, how much they just yank out in discovery in any of these cases? Terrifying, right? There's no one who doesn't say something that can't be taken out of context from any year or any month or any week at any time.

[B]

100%. I mean, I. I would say don't put anything in writing that you don't want a judge to read.

[A]

That's the thing, man. My. My buddy Dylan used to have this quote in college. He was like, if anyone recorded our conversations, none of us would have jobs and meat would be in jail. And I'm like, you know, you. You could probably take anything out of context there, and that would be true.

[B]

Totally. And I say that as I say, don't text this stuff. I should really be listening to my own advice based on the memes I've been sharing lately. That's all right.

[A]

It's a very memeable time.

[B]

Yeah, it is, right?

[A]

The world's run by satanic psychos, so you might as well just enjoy the ship on the way down, right?

[B]

Yeah, I guess so.

[A]

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help thank you. But you're, you cover a lot of different stories, I'm sure. Like we were just talking for a half hour before you got on here about just a bunch of different cases all over the place. I was holding in a lot of questions, so we'll get to it. But you know, right now the soup du jour, if you might call it that, is these 11 currently 11 missing scientists. And I do say that in air quotes because we'll cover some of that stuff if people didn't see the episode deep, and I did last weekend where we got into some of the details of some of the people. Not like you though, you know, some of them are not actually scientists but they have access to things. So I think it's important to like make those distinctions. But before we get to like the who, what, when, where, why and what's going on, like how did you get into this story? How did it befall that now you are in the words of Jesse Weber, the Internet expert on the missing scientist.

[B]

No, no, I mean I don't think that I am. But what really, I guess captured my attention was General McCaslin going missing. I don't want to say it's, it'll sound like I'm, I'm sick, but like I enjoy a good investigation and, and I say that respectfully, of course, I don't want anyone to go missing. But I was baffled by this. And then shortly after that it was revealed that someone connected to him, Monica Raza, went missing five months prior. And so this, those two were the actual proven connections here, like on paper.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That they overlapped basically. General McCaslin, he oversaw government funding when she was at Pratt and Whitney. And I don't know if it was multiple projects, one project, but you know, that's a government contract. Pratt and Whitney, Yeah. So basically she was a rocket science there. Rocket scientist, excuse me. And she, you know, it's her, her trademark is available. She co patented these burn resistant, just metal alloys. So she is very smart and she knows a lot. General McCaslin, I mean talk about. He is more credentialed than pretty much anyone on the planet.

[A]

I want to say it almost made no sense. Like going through his resume, I was

[B]

like holy shit, insane. And so, you know, you HEAR More about McCaslin, you hear through his wife. He was experiencing some mental fog, some brain fog, but nothing crazy. He was still with it. That's one of the reasons he wanted to retire. And maybe he was a little frustrated by that, but he had a lot going on he was. He was consulting, you know, when he. He was an avid hiker. And I actually heard from some local sources as well that he also. He would always hike in an Apple watch or wear the Apple watch. And the day he went missing, they're not really talking about this, but he. He wasn't wearing his Apple watch. And that's interesting to me that the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office wouldn't kind of put that out there that, you know, don't you think, like, that's kind of important. They're just saying, oh, his cell phone wasn't with him. You know, he didn't wear his glasses. They're leaving out certain pieces of information, but they don't owe us anything. Right. I think we have to keep that in mind. Law enforcement, unless we're in imminent danger, they're only going to tell us the basics.

[A]

Do you think that that is some level of incompetence, or do you think that there could be something more sinister there? Like they're being told, this little sheriff's office, this is way above your pay grade.

[B]

I don't think that the FBI, who joined the investigation early on, before the White House, got involved, by the way, for General McCas, I don't think that they're going to tell Bernalillo county anything. And I saw a video clip from another journalist. He's great. He's a nerdy addict. He is in the area. And he basically asked a cop, I mean, he was just. He was in a squad car what he thought. And I thought the cop's answer was really irresponsible. He basically was just like, well, it's kind of fun to think of your theories type of thing. It was just strange. I was like, you're a cop. You can't talk like that. And he said, I. I called the sheriff's office yesterday, actually, and I was like, do you guys have an update? You have not put out an update since March. I specifically want to know about the Air Force sweatshirt that was found a mile and a half east from General McCaslin's home or his neighborhood. You know, they said there was no blood on it. His family and friends couldn't identify if it was his or not. Do we know anything about that? And he just said, we don't know anything. I kept pressing. They. They wouldn't tell me much of anything. So at this point, General McCaslin and Monica Raza, their disappearances are the strangest to me, the absolute strangest, because they vanished into thin air. And it's Very important, by the way, when you're investigating these cases, to go to those locations. I have not done that. So are you gonna do that? I.

[A]

We.

[B]

We will see. I would like to. So I've been looking, you know, the Mount Waterman area where Monica Reza disappeared.

[A]

Can we pull that up on a map?

[B]

And by the way, where she disappeared, I mean, it is hundreds of thousands of acres, but we know her last coordinates. We know where her hat was last found. And I have spoken to sources that knew her who have searched month after month after month. I mean, they've been searching since June. Nothing. I don't get it. And Neil. Neil McCaslin. That area, also very isolated. If you're familiar with the area, it's very easy. I have learned to just sort of slip away into nothingness. And it appears that's what he's done.

[A]

It's the leaving, as you said, it's the leaving stuff behind. Like he took. We now know he took one gun, but no Apple watch, no phone, no nothing.

[B]

Right. And, you know, with the gun, all we know is that it was missing. No one's actually seen him with the gun. You know, there is a still image of Steven Garcia from the kcnsc, also in New Mexico. Not a scientist, a nuclear official. He is seen walking away with a gun. There is a gun in his hand with Neil McCaslin again, you know, on the initial 911 call, his wife was asked if there were any weapons missing. And she's like, I can't really tell just from looking. Yeah, in the safe. But then after the fact, officials said, yeah, there was a.38 revolver missing. She also said he specifically changed his clothes before he left. I don't.

[A]

How did she know? Like, what. How did she describe?

[B]

Well, she basically said, so she was going to a doctor's appointment in the morning, and so she saw him, like, deliberately change his clothes before she left. And then a repairman came, apparently spoke to him. I mean, from what we know, everything was fine. But I would like to. To find this repair man. If you're listening, you're. If you're out there. I said this before. If you are out there, please. I mean, it's really important. I feel like just for. For profiling, you know, you got to talk to these people and. Yeah, and he just apparently walked out the door. And the Bernalillo County Sheriff's office has asked neighbors and neighbors. By the way, it's kind of sparse over there, but video footage, anything. And I feel like it might be similar to The Nancy Guthrie case, where there is footage, but we just haven't seen it. They're only releasing pieces of it. If anything, because I go back, they don't have to tell us anything. They don't owe us anything.

[A]

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[B]

Idaho.

[A]

Idaho. Sorry, yeah, the Idaho. The Idaho. But you know, smaller sheriff's office for six to eight weeks. Whatever it was, they were being viewed as completely mishandling the case, not telling people Anything what was going on. And then they ended up tracking the guy across the country and got him. So like, I don't know if it's like ends justify the means kind of thing, but you would hope if we're seeing a similar pattern here, it ends with the same kind of, well, at least we get some sort of conclusion and know where he went or something like that.

[B]

Well, and I think that's the biggest thing is, is when you don't have a body, it's, yes, it's wild. Just because it's, you would think that, I mean, there would be a kidnapping of some sort when you don't have a body. I, I, that's where my head initially went. Without being too much of a conspiracy theorist, I was listening to a former FBI agent, Chris Wecker on Fox and, and he said something along the lines of, you know, it's not completely out of the ordinary for individuals with highly classified information to be kidnapped and tortured for intelligence. And it doesn't necessarily have to be our government. Right. I'm not saying, oh, it's the deep state, it could be a foreign government, but we, we just don't, we don't know enough. And so saying that out loud sounds insane. I realize how insane that sounds.

[A]

I sound that insane anymore in 2026.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And, and again, I am not saying that that is what's going on. I don't have definitive proof of that. Of course. Pure spec, Pure wild speculation. Wait, why are you smiling like that?

[A]

That's our thing.

[B]

Oh, when you Pure spec. Yeah. Okay. Is that why you guys like shared like a little like.

[A]

Yeah, it's a tagline, a little thing.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Sorry. That was cool. Anyway, now I've heard you say that before, but I, you guys are cute.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm going to get shit for saying that you're cute because that's going to, that's going to sound condescending and that's obviously not what I meant by it.

[A]

Yeah, you're like so self analytical. It's so funny.

[B]

Well, when you're a female and I feel like in this industry it's, it's wild the comments that you get. I hear YouTube and stuff everywhere, I would say, and people will say, don't read the comments, don't read the comments. And sometimes it's hard when you're like, if you're on X, you know, when you get notifications about, you know, I've had to turn X, like I've had to turn it off. I hear just about oh, she's so annoying. The craziest thing, someone the other day had commented, I've never gotten filler in my life before, but I just have so much filler in my face, and I'm like, this is crazy. Like, the people. Someone said, oh, I. I need to. I. I think I laughed really loudly, and my mouth was open, and they were like, wow, I feel like she needs to brush her tongue. Oh, my God, my tongue is totally brushed. I. I literally am like. I don't know if it was, like, the lighting. I'm sorry. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for saying it's so easy. And like I said, it's between notifications. If I talk too fast, if I laugh too loud, if I say, oh, you're cute, it's like anything and everything. I. I have to just. You're right. I have to just.

[A]

If I took my comments seriously or if you read them, you would assume I was Joseph Stalin. Like, you'd be like, true, it's him in second form. Alien hybrid of Joseph Stalin. But, like, that's just how the Internet is. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, people say weird things. First of all, half the accounts aren't real, and the other half are just retarded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just gotta know.

[B]

You're right. I read an article that many of them are just rage bait bots, and so I don't ever really respond. I mean, every once in a while, I'll just be really tired and I'll have one of those moments and. And you know what I've noticed? I've noticed every time I do that, I never feel good about it. I never walk away being like, yeah, I told them someone on the Internet, a stranger, is really gonna listen to me. I really made a point there. Like, no, I never feel good about it.

[A]

Your family respect what you do?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do your friends respect what you do?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

There you go. That's all matters. Yeah, that's it. The rest of it's all gravy.

[B]

You're right. You're right. Anyway, so you are cute. There you go. I stand by it. Okay.

[A]

No, I was a guy. We were fist bumping. That was very nice. But what were we saying pure spec about again? About if they were picked up by the Deep State or something like that. And again, it is totally pure spec. I'm just saying, it's like, first of all, that stuff does happen sometimes, but in the past, it might have been like, all right, we're going there a little too soon. But now it's like, we may not be saying that's what happened, but the fact that that is on the realm of possibilities is not crazy at all, considering all the ways we're seeing how the world works now that we previously didn't know before January 30th.

[B]

Yes, I, I agree with that. And I, I just can't, I can't get over just how much I have learned in the last. I, I want to just say the last few years. I. It's troubling. It's troubling. And, and it's scary. It really is scary. You grow up thinking that the president and the government, they're just heroic and they would never let anything bad happen to anyone, Right? That's, you know, you're taught that from, like, the third grade on, basically. And that's just not, that's not the case. And I know that the Trump administration, they really ran on the whole, we are transparent, right? We are this transparent government. We want to be different. And it started with the Epstein files. And I feel like, you know, there's a part of the, let's say the generation behind me, I'm a millennial, Gen Z, they felt like they were lied to during COVID Right. I feel like a lot of people felt like they were lied to. And then, you know, they voted for Trump. They, they wanted this transparency. And they, Bondi and Trump get in and they're handed these bullshit binders, and all of a sudden it's like, well, what, what did we vote for if we're not, if we're not going to get transparency? And then, you know, you have to ask yourself, and I'm sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, but we love that. But what has, what has changed since releasing the redacted files? The Epstein files, right. They're so heavily redacted from, from what we need to know. I mean, who's been arrested? What, what have we learned? And what have we gained from them releasing these? Absolutely nothing. We have gained nothing. There's been one arrest, Prince Andrew, but that, I'm not attributing that exactly. And I'm not attributing that to, you know, what's been released. It's just, it's frustrating. It's incredibly frustrating. And for the people still, you know, pounding and saying, we want the fight, you're never going to get them. You're never going to get what you want. And the victims or survivors of Epstein and the other men who abuse them. And women. And women, yes. Let me say that without going too far, they don't want to come forward because they are scared. Because I think that's the, the, you know, I think some people kind of say, well, we could just talk to the victims. They were, they were there. The survivors were on Epstein Island. They were, you know, they know who was there. They're not going to say anything. They're not going to say anything.

[A]

A lot of them dead too.

[B]

And that, however, I firmly believe that Virginia Giuffre, I do believe that she killed herself. I think some of her statements prior to her death, the whole. I have four months to live. I had a deception expert and statement analysis expert. His name is Jack Fox. He's great. He analyzed that. And I mean he just deep, deep rooted depression throughout that entire statement.

[A]

Yeah, first of all, Virginia was extremely brave doing what she did throughout her life to really keep pushing on that. And secondly, again, you. Oh, especially with this case, especially now, you always want to believe the absolute worst thing and people are right to be suspicious about that. I do have to say I, I've said this in the past, but I think a lot of people missed this. It was probably only once in a previous episode. But, you know, after Virginia died, there was a the tower. Paul Mary came out and commented something on her death that went completely under the radar that is really pertinent. And what that was is Tara Palmeri, longtime journalist at a bunch of different places, she did these podcasts in 2021 on Maxwell, one on Epstein, and they were basically like documentary podcasts, extremely well done. I've always talked about those people should go listen. But she went around with Virginia like, you know, like a tag team. And they were going to all former people that Virginia knew who either worked for Epstein or were around Epstein and stuff like that and trying to get interviews with them, some of whom they did, others whom turned them away. But Tara said Virginia was a friend of mine, not just a source. And so she confided in me and there are things that I totally kept in at her wishes that now that she is deceased and now that her family has decided to release some traumatic photographs of her in her final months, I do feel like I should say this. I being Tara in this case speaking, she said this on Twitter. She said Virginia, her husband beat the. Out of her and you know, it was an awful relationship and all that. And so do with that what you will. But, you know, does it, does that definitively mean she killed herself? No. But do, do I actually think there is a strong chance that in that case where we've seen a lot of fake suicides. When it pertains to the Epstein case, do I agree with you that there is a strong chance that she may have there?

[B]

Yes, I. Yeah. And it's. That's so heartbreaking. And, and what resurfaces is a Twitter post she made from six years prior saying she wasn't suicidal. Well, a lot changes in six years. She had a heartbreaking life. And if you look at just the legal process that she has had to go through for how many years, telling what happened, reliving that, I mean, can you imagine? I cannot imagine. I don't think the average person really can comprehend what that woman has. Has had to go through for. For so long, or had to go

[A]

through the bravery that she. Because it. And any abuse is horrific in all its forms. To be very clear. I don't mean to, like, put it on a pedestal, but if that's how this comes across. It's how it comes across. She was dealing also with the most powerful people in the world. And to go at that again and again for a while at the beginning, like, slightly alone in a lot of ways until it got momentum. And I understand that completely. You know, why Other victims were afraid to come forward. And then eventually, like through her bravery, some other people. There were people in the past who had. And then the volume got up because she kept pushing once the case was pushed under the rug. And you're right. I don't think any of us could ever imagine what it's like to be in those shoes and have to deal with that every single day hanging over you.

[B]

No, I really can't imagine. And, you know, not to. To pivot too hard, but I think about this during, you know, missing persons cases. I think of Nancy Guthrie and you see, you see the online fodder about just the Internet analyzing everything that the Guthrie family does, right? Well, why is Savannah the only one talking? Well, why did she return to work? Why? It's like, oh, my gosh, we are living in an ass backwards world where somebody is a legitimate victim and people are coming at them saying that they're not doing things the way a victim should. It's like, unless you have been in the position where your family member is missing, you don't know there is no right way or wrong way to act. And I say that, you know, respectfully. Of course, there are certain red flags, right, that you can point out. If a. A wife goes missing and the husband gets married the next week, obviously we can say, okay, I'm Gonna judge that, right? There are certain things I do feel like are okay to judge without sounding too hypocritical, but when it comes. When it comes to this type of thing, I'm like, oh, my gosh, everybody just needs to sort of, you know, just calm down a little bit because I. I just can't imagine if that was me. One of my children or a family member is missing, and then all of a sudden people are. Are just insane respecting what I've done on Instagram for the last, you know, the last five years or whatever. It's just. It's so strange. It's.

[A]

What do you think that is that makes us, like, not only be so interested in a lot of these cases, but makes certain people, a certain percentage of the population, want to actively be Sherlock Holmes and maybe be aggressively Sherlock Holmes in a way when it comes to judging all the people involved on any side of the issue that they're looking at.

[B]

I mean, I think obviously more and more people are interested in crime and true crime, as you mentioned. And I don't know, I think a lot of people are just secret narcissists and just so self, Self obsessed because I can't even tell you how many times, like, you know, a case will break. And it's a tragic case, a heartbreaking case where somebody is brutally murdered. And the comments are just like. And sorry, you're going to say I'm obsessed with comments, but they're just like, I told everybody this was gonna happen and nobody believed me. And it's like, what? This is not about you. This is not. I'm glad you were right and I'm glad you can sleep better. But what? What, like, okay, thanks for telling us again, I say this respectfully because, you know, when I first kind of came onto the scene, I was very quick to jump, very quick to speculate, very quick to make uneducated decisions on things after really only hearing maybe one side and an emotional side. Let's say I have learned so much in the years that I just, you know, I look back on some of my work and, and we all grow, right, as people, but I just cringe at some of it and I. Yeah, it's normal. It's normal, right?

[A]

Very normal.

[B]

This is good therapy.

[A]

I cringe as I did yesterday.

[B]

Okay, wait, me too.

[A]

I'm just, like, numb to it at this point, but it's still like, oh, why'd I say it like that? Oh, did it really?

[B]

No, I. That makes me feel better.

[A]

But I think. But I think that's a really good trait to have. I think people that are like that all was perfect and I haven't made a mist like you probably suck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're doing that, you know what I mean? You should be self critical and you know, that doesn't mean you need to be like the bots in the comments section or questioning, you know, the positioning of your head in a video or something like that. But you get what I mean. Like from the skill perspective of doing your job, putting all the case together correctly and trying to do right by what the case is. And like you raise a good point. These cases, regardless of what they are, they are in the public interest. People are fascinated with some of them. Perhaps some are more anecdotal and it just becomes more like people get locked into the story and then others are more consequential for all of us. Like an Epstein case or potentially like a missing scientist case. And it's a funny dance. Like De and I actually recently have talked about this more behind the scenes too because like we do a conversational comedy show here. You know, like we have a good time with people. We know how to be serious in certain spots of a conversation, but also like find a way to have fun with life and keep things as light. Like that's what my whole life has been. So it would be no different doing this job. That's the best part of it. But like the balance of having comedy and entertainment while also covering a very serious story with very real victims, like say an Epstein or dismissing person's case as what? Missing scientist case as well. Like it's a constant dance worth thinking about and judging. Like, okay, we just like when we do our episodes together, you know, all right, we just talked for 95 minutes. Where was Right? Where was. All right, where do we maybe need to pull a joke there or where could we add in a joke because we were being too serious. It's a weird dance because you want to be respectful of everything. But at the same time, in order to inform and also get the conversation started, like you gotta, you gotta entertain.

[B]

Yes, I, I agree. And I think for me it's, I don't have to entertain quite as much. But I think that when you jump from tragic case to an even more tragic case, you have to remind yourself not to be a robot and that, you know, these are real people. This is not just news that you're covering. And, and you know, with the missing scientists, for example, I mean, I'm reaching out to family, to friends. I'm, I'm not making crazy progress, but enough. And, you know, I had a phone call with Carl Grillmare's wife last week. He was the Caltech astrophysicist that was murdered on his porch.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I mean, I almost. By the end of the phone conversation, I'm almost crying, but I'm trying to, like, just keep it together because I just had to ask her. I'm just like, my God, are you still. Are you still in that house? Like, have you. And she's like, yeah, I'm still here.

[A]

It was, like, two months ago.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm just. But I'm just so heartbroken for her. I am so heartbroken for her because even on the phone, I'm telling her stuff about the case that she doesn't even know about. Okay. Yeah. So. And I don't even know everything, because this case, it's California, Los Angeles is horrible when it comes to court docs. You actually have to either write letters and then they mail you back a letter where you have to, like, put a check. It's insane. It's insane in 2026. Yeah. Or you can go pick up the documents at the courthouse, which I can't.

[A]

Someone's got to pay for you having shit.

[B]

I mean. Yeah. So. So, you know, with that being said, I have submitted a request here, but if you want to just get into his murder.

[A]

Yeah. So actually, right before we do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wanted to get your thoughts on this, because when Deef and I were trying to categorize this the other day, we did it in the following way, based on the 11 that are missing. And then I'll come right back to Grill Marin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And let you expand upon that. But it's like, at the bottom, in a category of one, we had the Novartis scientist Jason Thomas. And we basically, you know, rule out as a strong word, but we have strong doubts that he's in any way related. We can talk about that later. There's a whole.

[B]

You can say rollout. I get what you're saying.

[A]

And then the next category, also kind of alone, is the plasma physicist from mit. Lunar.

[B]

Correct. Nuno. Yeah.

[A]

Working on serious stuff. But it's like, very separate and separate.

[B]

But I have questions.

[A]

Okay, we'll come back to it. I have questions about the shooter, too, because it was wrapped up in a nice bow.

[B]

Correct. Oh. Oh, we're on the same page. Okay.

[A]

Then you have three non scientists from two different places. Two from Los Alamos, one from the Kansas City Nuclear whatever the fuck. And none of them, again, were in any way scientists or mathematicians or something like that. One was even Cassius was an executive assistant. Another I believe worked on H Vac. That one's still a little confusing.

[B]

Stephen Chavez.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Garcia was basically like a chief security guy at the Kansas City place.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Meaning they all. They were all confirmed to have. Based on the desk they sat on, they were required to have a high level clearance.

[B]

Except for Melissa.

[A]

Melissa did not have any kind of clearance.

[B]

And not that. Not that I have found. However, when you go to independently verify workplace information at Los Alamos, Casey, nsc, almost Wright Patterson. I try. Impossible.

[A]

All right, we're going to come back to that. That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they had their own category. I kind of marked them yellow. Like could be.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I got you.

[A]

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[B]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

[A]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.

[B]

We're married.

[A]

Me to a human, him to a bird.

[B]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[A]

Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

[B]

Liberty, Liberty. Liberty.

[A]

Liberty. And then there was Eskridge, who came out separately, which we recorded that in the day following her coming out. So we were able. On. We recorded Friday night. Def and I were able to look more at that Saturday. Sunday. You've really been looking at that. So we will get to her in some detail because there's some things there that are like, eh, I don't know.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But then at the top, I have one full category of five because they're all tied to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. But they're in tears. Right. So we have Grill mayor. We're going to talk about that in a minute. Where he's killed on his front porch. It's sketchy. You had a chance to talk with his wife. She had some interesting things to say. Then you have the two guys who died quietly. One. I forget their name.

[B]

Frank Maywald and Michael David Hicks. I'm a no for them. Just saying.

[A]

I think you might be right on that. They both worked on very serious things. One of them literally overlapping with grill mare when it comes to looking at exoplanets and liquid on those planets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

However they die, the only things we have are that they die without a cause of death.

[B]

No, there is. I don't know why people are saying that. You. I've. I'm on the. I have the medical examiner's website in Los Angeles. That's right here. All right.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna come back to that.

[B]

Probably rule them out. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

But at the top of that pyramid are the two you started off with, which are McCasland and. And Reza. Because they have a lot of overlap and they disappeared. They're not known dead. And man, did they work on some serious shit. So it's almost like this case is being blown out of proportion on one hand because there are a lot of like, loose ties being made to conveniently wrap it in a bow. That's nice for a headline. And then at the top of the pool, you. You kind of go from, like, yellow, yellow, yellow. Oh, red. Right. So that's kind of how we had it. So let's. It's perfect. You have grill there. Because he's, like, the fifth on that tier of five.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But let's go. Let's start with him. First of all, if you wouldn't mind, just for people that didn't hear episode 411 where we did talk about, like, what exactly happened, can you just rehash what happened with his murder and what happened two months before his murder?

[B]

Yes, yes. So. And originally, by the way, this was clarified by his wife, because I even misreported this at first. So In December of 2025, a man that we now know as Freddy Snyder, he's 29 years old. We don't know much about him. We know that neighbors in the area kind of said he was sort of unhinged, but he was on Carl Grill's property with a rifle of some sort, an AR15 of some sort. And originally it was reported that Carl called 911 for someone trespassing on his property, but that's not the case. His wife said he actually went out and just kind of started talking to him, and he just, you know, they were talking, and he went back up to his wife, and his wife was like, what's going on? And he just said, you know, he's. He's kind of odd. He mentioned something about coyote hunting, but apparently when Freddie Snyder got down to the driveway, there were two cop cars waiting for him. And so, I guess, per Carl's wife, Louise, the cops asked Carl if he wanted to press charges, trespassing charges, which would be a misdemeanor in California. And he just said no. And, you know, his wife just said he was the nicest guy ever. He would have never wanted this guy to get in trouble. He thought he was weird, but, you know, whatever. Now, in the area of where he lives, which is Lano, California, and this is really important, again, I go back to these locations, right. It's pretty isolated. And his wife confirmed this, but she also confirmed that in the area within like a mile or so, two other people worked in aerospace research. I just for their safety, I'm not going to say where they work because, you know, whatever. I thought that was super interesting. But, you know, Freddie Snyder gets booked on a felony weapons charge. Okay. I'm looking at his. His booking information, and if you want to go to LA Mag, I have a whole article on Carl Grillmare alone where I Sort of screenshot, some of this stuff. And he was, he was just released on his own recognizance that. That day upon being booked for a felony. And by February 5th, the prosecutors just completely dismissed the case. And now, because I don't have the paperwork yet, I have, you know, I've requested this. I don't know the judge and I, I don't know the, the prosecutors, but I did email the Lada's office and I'm like, can you guys give me some more information while I'm waiting? Any kind of comment? And they just said, no, we don't have a comment on this. I mean, all I could find about this is that he was released under California Penal Code 1385, which is a provision that just allows a judge to dismiss or reduce charges, quote, in the interest of justice. Meaning he didn't have a criminal record, perhaps. But that's all we know right now.

[A]

So we don't really know anything about him.

[B]

No, there's. He has, like, no social media presence. I mean, nothing that I could really find. And I, I have his booking photo, which is, Is. Is also interesting because, you know, Los Angeles, and it's just funny, just they rarely release booking photos. Right. You have to jump through hoops to get these, unless you're David the singer. And in that case, they'll, they'll literally put it out there for you, which was shocking. So I, I do have his booking photo, and I, I put it in this. In this article.

[A]

Can I see it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Seems like a nice guy.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Who knows?

[A]

So he's 29.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Years and not 20.

[B]

I know, I know, right? I think it's the beard. But he. So he. Yeah. Charges dismissed February 5th, and then by February 16th, he goes back.

[A]

Did he have an attorney appear for him in court?

[B]

So he has not been arraigned yet. His arraignment has been pushed back. He's actually in twin towers now.

[A]

No, I mean, before, like, on when the charges were dismissed. Did he have any attorney listed to his name?

[B]

No, because it, it. No, nothing in the, Nothing in the docket. But, you know, I'm sure he had a public defender with him, because you pretty much are assigned one, unless you want to say that you're pro se. But again, I was surprised that his arraignment was pushed back till April 29, which kind of led me to believe that perhaps maybe there is some kind of NGI plea coming. Not guilty by reason of insanity. And in order to do that, you do have to Be, you know, evaluated and. And on, you know, both sides. So I, you know, I don't know, but he came back and shot him. And I don't know, two months later. Two months later, yeah.

[A]

What was this? February 19th?

[B]

This was the 16th. 16th, yeah. No motive that we know about. It's really strange that he was released and then came back and killed him. But his wife has said she thinks it's silly that everything is being sort of grouped in, like.

[A]

Why did she say it was silly?

[B]

She just said, you know, he has nothing to do with the other people. Like, I have no idea why anybody would say that. Like, he was. He was just murdered. I mean, she didn't say, like, he was just murdered. I'm saying that. But that was sort of her. Her tone. She was very dismissive of it.

[A]

But it's just interesting. The guy has all his charges dropped on February 5, you said, and he had been let out on his own recognizance back the day he was arrested in December. So he's been floating around for two months, then the charges get dropped, and then 11 days after that, he goes back to the original place where technically this all started in a way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And blows Carl away on, like, what

[B]

was the crime in the torso?

[A]

He just walked up with a gun. Do we know anything? Did he say anything?

[B]

Carl was on the. The porch. So if I had to guess, which I. I don't know all the details. This is. Yeah, pure spec. Yeah, pure spec. But I would say Freddie showed up and Carl was probably like, oh, this guy again. Probably came out onto the porch and got shot.

[A]

Is there a ring? Camera?

[B]

I requested all of this information, and. And listen, the chances that I get, because I requested, I basically, you know, I sent them the two case numbers. Right. So I'm thinking I will get information from the first case in December because that's closed. Carl's murder I may not get info on because it's an open investigation. Yeah. So at least I'm hoping I can get the 911 call from the first one to see if I can piece anything together here. And his wife was so kind. She said I could reach out to her again.

[A]

How'd you get in touch with her in the first place? You just call her?

[B]

Yeah, I just called her.

[A]

How long did you talk about?

[B]

Um, five minutes or so. Six minutes, maybe longer. Like I said, I feel. I feel bad because it's so fresh and it's so, you know, I mean, I. I even said, like, do you mind if I call you Again or text you, and if you want, I can even keep you updated on things. And she said, yeah, that would be great.

[A]

So. But she. And this. This is one of those places we try to be really careful because, again, these are real people. This is a real grieving widow. Her husband has freshly just been murdered. Is. You know, it's probably not fun to open up the Internet and see that a bunch of people are talking and speculating about it, unfortunately has been pulled into a story that. That now the White House is talking about. So it is in the public domain. That is what it is. I have seen in the past, though, and this is where it's a weird dance. Families, grieving families who are upset, and the priority is obviously the fact that they've just lost a loved one immediately do try to rule out or say, no, no, this had nothing to do with such and such. And then later it's like, oh, that probably had something to do with such and such.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's not their fault. But, like, do you think that it's a possibility that even though she's ruling this out, she, for very good reason, by the way, hasn't had a chance to see that there. Maybe he did know someone or there was something he worked on they never talked about or things like that?

[B]

For Carl Grilmare. No, no, no, no. I think that is entirely possible, though, respectfully, for Susan Wilkerson McCaslin, so Neil McCaslin's wife. I think her shutting down, all of this being connected to something larger. Again, respectfully, I think that might be what you just said for Carl's wife. I don't. I. What makes you say so? I guess without sounding too crazy, it is sort of a. I think I'm good at reading people. I think at. At this point, I. I felt like I was reading her. There was an intuition I had where the phone. Yes. And it's. It sounds nuts. It was just something about her voice, something about her tone, the way she was talking to me. It was almost also like she. I mean, she was happy. Not happy to talk to me, but she wasn't put off by this phone call, which I would just be so annoyed if a reporter. I mean, I, you know, that's why it's like sometimes you just hate your job that, you know, And. And I think initially looking at some of these cases, it took me a day or two to work up the courage not. Or just the balls, I guess, to be like, all right, let's just get it done and call these people. Yeah, you Know, because you do. I've gotten cursed out on the steps of a courthouse before where I went in the car and cried after, when I was, you know, in Oklahoma for a case and I had to approach a grieving fiance. And it was so embarrassing. And it was just. And you feel. Not that it's like, yes, the embarrassment is a part of it, but the way you feel inside, like a total piece of. When you're doing your job, but you're also trying to tell the story of this victim. Right. You're trying to. And. And this was me doing development for a potential documentary. I worked in development briefly and for certain crime cases. And that's when they basically send you out to just do research and try to get people to sign on to work with you. And I. It was the same thing. I'm like, well, gotta talk to him at some point. So here it goes. And it was. He was not happy.

[A]

It's hard. It's. It's hard. It's a weird. I'm not jealous of that part of your job.

[B]

Well, yeah, you know, yes.

[A]

But.

[B]

And.

[A]

And, yeah, like, you've done this for so long, and if you've done so many different cases, I do think there is something to be said for the fact that you can be on the phone with someone and kind of get a feeling. I also think that it's very possible that someone legitimately, like, not even just as an instantaneous shutdown reaction, someone legitimately thinks there's absolutely nothing there and has every reason to believe there's nothing there. Which, by the way, she may be 100. Correct. I'm. I lean towards the wife being correct. Here I am just asking questions on this. It's like, you know, even just reading her. Yeah, she might totally be telling the truth. And then maybe later we learn, oh, shit, he really knew this other guy too. And if that's the case, then we change our opinion.

[B]

Yeah, totally. I. I agree with that. I. I just think that that for Carl, I think it's a little different, but for. For the others, like Neil, I. I think there might be something more there.

[A]

Yeah. The fact that there's. And maybe we can then tie this into the MIT physicist in a second because you'll see where I'm going with this. The fact that it's just seemingly a normally unwell, for lack of a better word, maybe kind of crazy person doing it with no motive on the one hand, it's like. Well, unfortunately, that is what people who are unwell do. Sometimes they just. For no reason Hear voices in their head and they go kill someone.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's very real. And a lot of the percentage of the time that is what it is that it's no different in the percentage of the time with this case when we're looking at statistical probabilities. However, people's heads do go to like, man, he targeted him, he was there, he, he talked with him, didn't do anything, and then came back and as far as we know, just blew him away. And it's like of all the people he could have done that to. It's a remote place. A guy who happened to be working on this, you know, this is where people are like, ah, could it. It's convenient he didn't have a motive. It's convenient he's crazy. Could it be, you know, some MK Ultra guy or something?

[B]

Yeah, and we don't, we don't necessarily know if he had no motive or if he's crazy. It sounds like he's. Sounds like it. Yeah, it does. He also was arrested for a carjacking the same day that of. Of the murder.

[A]

So it's important.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, really. And so I just go back to like, you know, it was a very isolated area. Why was he there? You know, why was he on this property? Right. Like, why did he specifically, specifically go back to this property? I mean, it's just, it's. Yeah, it's, it's annoying to think about not having these answers. And I'm not, you know, I don't even know if annoying is the right word. I'm just like, I want more information. It's like, it's driving me bananas and same with the rest of these cases. And I will say I hate when this happens, but they are starting to keep me up at night because I just like, I don't, I don't like that. I just want to go to sleep.

[A]

Just let me sleep thinking about it. I mean, that's a part that you take the job home with you because these are active things going on. I understand that. Do you. Did you talk with his wife at all about. In the five minute call about his work or the nature of it?

[B]

Not really. I think that, I think that we can get there, her and I, I think, I think we can. But no, yeah, no, she, you know, she talked more about him as a person. Like he was so smart. I mean, and you know, like many of these guys, like, I mean to a point that I, I will never truly understand or comprehend, but she just said he was, was so smart and so Kind. And he was very, very well liked.

[A]

Sounds like it. I mean when we were reading up the stuff he was working on, I mean clearly you got to be water on distant planets.

[B]

I mean it's intense. It's intense. And. And it's all very unbelievable as well. Right.

[A]

I haven't talked to my friend David Kipping to see if he knew him. I should do. I should actually do that Thief. Because we had David in here for episode 358. He runs basically like. I. I forget what it's called the. God damn it. At Columbia University he runs the. What is it called? The. The center for something. Something Lost. Science and Technology Facilities Council. Yeah but there's a. It's got a really cool name like the Cool Worlds Lab or something like that at Columbia. Google. David Kipping Cool Worlds Lab, it's called something like that. But David looks. His expertise is in studying exoplanets and searching for life, which is exactly what Carl was doing out of Caltech and then associated with places like JPL for certain projects and stuff like that. Would be interesting if you know, obviously his wife has more important things to do like grieve her husband and everything right now. But if you do have future conversations with her, be interesting to hear what she could expand upon with. With the nature of his work for sure.

[B]

And I think I felt, you know, a little guilty as she's shutting it down sort of about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but she, she made a point to tell me. She's like I just want to tell you like this was misreported about what happened but. And I was like oh, that's actually so interesting. Do you have anything else that you can share? And you know, she, she said no. And. And again, I didn't really want to press but I do feel like I can give her some updates and when I do, I will get more info.

[A]

Okay. Now the other one that had a weird. Like this one is more buttoned up because we actually know more details based on what the government's telling us. Is the MIT plasma physicist because he was killed on December 15, I believe, two days after the shooting at Brown University.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

By the same shooter. That shooter killed two students and injured nine other students at Brown University and he had been classmates with the plasma physicist. But he drives from Brown over those two days to Boston and walks into the foyer of this guy's apartment complex and kills him.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then is later found a few days later the shooter inside a storage unit that he owned having a self inflicted. This is what it's reported as self inflicted gunshot wound. They also, I think from the storage unit, maybe you can correct me on this, they recovered videos of him admitting that he did these things and that he planned to do it, at least as it pertains to the Brown University shooting. But there was no motive.

[B]

Well, I mean, you, you said it. So Claudio Neeves Valente, that's his name, he shot and killed two students at Brown, like you said, injured the others and, or nine others. And I think if you want to play the conspiracy route around this one, which I'm not necessarily playing here, but you know, you could sort of say, okay, the FBI was involved with the Providence police at that time because, you know, the Providence police kind of got this not so great reputation as to not finding the shooter. And then, you know, we find out there's not cameras around Brown. So, you know, the university's under scrutiny and it's, it's just a mess.

[A]

They have cameras?

[B]

Well, apparently they have. So they have thousands of cameras, but they didn't have them in this science center. And there, I don't remember exactly, but the president of Brown came out and just made these really bullshit remarks. It felt like it just, it didn't feel genuine and it felt strange. And then, you know, when we heard the news that he had two days to go drive to Brookline, Massachusetts and shoot and kill an old classmate, you're like, well, wait a second, you guys could have stopped this. If you would have just done your jobs and stopped this, a man would still be alive. So I go back to like, okay, who dropped the ball? Exactly. Let's, let's go back and, and, you know, go through step by step when the FBI joined the investigation, what was going on? And while I haven't done that yet, I, I have sort of tracked the manifesto. Right. We saw a translation of that or a transcription of that. He said it in Portuguese on this video in the Salem, New Hampshire storage facility he was at. Which, by the way, I've been to. I'm from New Hampshire, my sister lives nearby and it's weird.

[A]

Storage facility.

[B]

Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's like not the actual. We don't know the actual unit. It was. They have not disclosed that. Well, no, I'm not sure. Yeah, no, no. But, but guilty person would say I am. I didn't, I feel like I didn't answer either way. I feel like you're, you're really trying with that one. But no, I think that we should all be skeptical when the DOJ Is like, here, let me give you something that you didn't ask for. So we didn't ask for anything, but all of a sudden they're like, we found a video and we've transcribed it into English. This is, you know, Claudio Nia's Valente. This is what he said. And federal authorities came out and said, well, it's very clear that he was targeting the students at Brown. Not clear about Nuno Lorio, nothing about that. They transcribed this for us in English. They gave us a transcription. We have no idea if we're seeing the whole thing. We have no clue. Why did you give it to us? Nobody asked. And there's no real explanation there except like this guy's crazy and he hates, you know, his life and, and he doesn't hate America, but he's not happy. It's just, it was, was stupid.

[A]

What was he up to at this point? Like, do we know what he's.

[B]

Nothing really. He was living in Florida, I guess, but I mean, he, he also studied astrophysics, I believe. Yeah. In Portugal and obviously at Brown. But he, he was troubled. It was just one of those things where I just felt like, oh, wow, they just want this to be over. So they're releasing information to us that we didn't ask for. And that. It reminds me of Charlie Kirk with Tyler Robinson when there, Jeff Gray is during a press conference reading these text messages between Tyler Robinson and his lover. And I'm like, wow, they really spelled out for us what happened exactly. Like, check under your keyboard, my love. Oh, was it you? Why? Well, like, it's just like really?

[A]

Some chatgpt.

[B]

Well, it's just like we don't talk. I mean, without knowing. Right. Like how they speak to one another. I'm just going to go ahead and guess that, you know, not many people really talk like that or put that stuff in writing, but for whatever reason, Utah is like, here you go.

[A]

It was literally beyond like the autism spectrum.

[B]

I was like, it's not wild, right? Again, no one asked, but you were giving it to us and you were explaining everything.

[A]

Also having like some old like curmudgeony fucking 70 year old white dude just like reading it like, my love is under the table.

[B]

It's like, it's like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

We couldn't get like a better performer. No, come on.

[B]

No, but I mean, again, he's asking or they, whatever the, the roommate or lover was like, they are asking all the questions and he's answering everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, wouldn't you be like, I'm not Gonna put this in writing right now. Let me call you. Like, it's just like, what? Like it just doesn't make sense.

[A]

It doesn't make sense.

[B]

No, it doesn't.

[A]

Now, is there the plasma mechanics, you know, because I study that all the time, in case that wasn't obvious. Is there anything in the nature of. How do you say his name again?

[B]

Nunyo. L'. Oreal.

[A]

Nuno Laurio's work at MIT that is potentially world changing or something of note where people might want them dead.

[B]

So I will just tell you. I don't know enough about that stuff.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

Yeah, if you wanna. I, you know, like that answer. Yeah, I can't, I can't. I, you know, I'm trying to dive into that. That's like, I guess the second layer for me for a lot of them is diving into their work. But I will tell you this. And I said this, I said this the other day on, on the. Sorry. I said this on the Will Kane show. And I didn't want this to be misconstrued at all. But you know, as a reporter or a journalist, when you're working on a story and you are putting stories out there, you're filing stories, you're doing podcasts, normally people come forward and they say, hey, I have some information for you about xyz. I've had one or two people do that, but nobody that actually worked alongside these people. And that's really rare for me as a journalist for someone to say like, you know, or I guess not to say. I should just say that like. And I think that most reporters and journalists would agree that all of a sudden your messages and emails start blowing up with people that hasn't happened.

[A]

That's bizarre. Dave, can you pull up Sam Altman's Alien Overlord app and ask it what Nuno Larrero was working on and if it, if any nature of his work was considered like world changing or something

[B]

like that, I feel like that would have come out like when he died, don't you? Like when he was murdered, we would have known, like, oh, he was this story to change the world.

[A]

This story wasn't out, but I remember it's like in the back of my mind. And I don't want to say for sure, sure or not. But I feel like I remember clips of people talking about this, like, yo, he was working on some. And I never took the time to like, yeah, I have no idea.

[B]

You must have different algorithms.

[A]

Yeah, it could. I have no idea what accounts those were, but yeah, yeah, we're gonna see what it spits out here. Obviously, extremely smart guy. He had won a lot of awards, had received a lot of recognition. He was also like one of the fast tracked. I don't know if that's the right term, but like young professors working on certain research that was, you know, made him exemplary.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I know he was, he was the director of the, the Plasma Science Infusion center at mit. But I could not tell you exactly what they were working on at that time.

[A]

It's also strange because MIT is one that shows up at the middle of so many.

[B]

McCaslin is an MIT grad. Yeah, yeah, it's true, huh?

[A]

And like, people love looking at the Harvard thing and there's a lot to look at there, to be clear. But like, man, MIT is tied to everything from random scientists to Netanyahu. You know, there's some weird things going on. All right, so Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone.

[B]

Paying big wireless way too much.

[A]

Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint.

[B]

You can get premium wireless for just

[A]

as $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway.

[B]

Give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[A]

See full [e-mail] save on family essentials at Safeway and Albertsons. This week at Safeway and Albertsons, fresh cut cantaloupe, watermelon, pineapple or melon medley bowls, 24 ounces are $5 each and wild caught lobster tails are $4.99 each. Limit eight member price plus selected sizes and varieties of Doritos Lays, Cheetos, sun chips and Kettle cook chips are $1.99 each. Limit for member price. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. Can we just blow this up a little bit? Because it's like size is seven. All right, so his primary focus was magnetic reconnection, a phenomenon that sits at the intersection of astrophysics and fusion energy, which I'm sure we all understand. Magnetic reconnection is a ubiquitous phenomenon in nature. Solar flares, magnetospheric substorms, and the sawtooth and tearing instabilities in Toko Max are just a few examples of events where reconnection plays a key role. Why it mattered his work had direct implications for fusion energy, one of humanity's most sought after clean energy sources. Lauriero's lab at MIT's Plasma Science Infusion center illuminated how plasma behaves inside fusion reactors, which could help prevent material failures and better contain the plasma to harvest electricity. Beyond very Nikola Tesla, kind of beyond fusion. His research reached into astrophysics and it addressed complex problems at the center of fusion vacuum chambers and at the edges of the universe, advancing scientists understanding of plasma behavior, including turbulence, and uncovering the physics behind astronomical phenomena like solar flares. And you know what? Now I'm remembering something that I saw in a headline that I don't know if was true. So we're going to check it. Yeah, but it had something to do with this guy proposed some sort of theory. I want to say it was with plasma fusion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That could be disproved Earth's magnetic something, something. I'm seeing it in my photographic memory, might have been something made up. So if it's made up, we'll say that.

[B]

But you know, I don't, I don't see a connection per se to the others until you get to the physics behind, you know, astronomical phenomenas like solar flares. You could sort of loop that in, I guess. But I don't, I don't know. I don't necessarily see a connection, but I don't either. I do see just questions, government questions. That's government questions. Yeah. I go back to like, and just bear with me because I am a reporter, I report on facts. Yes. I want to be known for reporting on facts. That's why this topic is tough.

[A]

My favorite thing you said today is when you said, I don't know about that one, so I don't want to talk about it. People try to fucking answer every single question. It is really. I get a lot of trust in people when they're like, I'm not sure.

[B]

Oh, well that's great. Yeah. I mean, I'm hoping you cut that actually. No, no, I'm just kidding. So it's like, because she doesn't know, I will say like, I, I, I want to report on facts. I don't want to report on wild speculation. And I don't want to be one of those people that's like, the government's killing everybody. But you know, you go back to, back to jfk, right? And then you go back to Thomas Michael Crooks who reported. I don't know, it's like, where do you, does the government find these people? Like, did they find Claudio Neaves in, in Miami. And they're like, this guy looks good. He looks crazy. He looks like he's ready. You know, Freddie Snyder, who shot Carl Grillmeyer, is the government. Like, you know what? He looks crazy enough. Let's wild spec.

[A]

Yeah, but that's like the genesis of the term pure spec, by the way, because we don't want to, like, say things and be like, yo, by the way, this is true. We're like, hey, could it be this?

[B]

And I hope that people can also understand the difference. When I am on a podcast speculating as to when I am reporting, you know, on the news or on. You know what I mean, on paper, like it is. It should be very clear that I am. I'm just riffing with you and speculating. But, yeah, that. That crosses my mind sometimes for sure. Just because it's. It's healthy and normal to ask questions.

[A]

Yes. Do we get anything deep? No. Yeah, he was. There was. No. I saw that headline somewhere. It's probably on some fake Russian bond account, but I definitely saw, like, he proposed that the earth's magnetic course. Yeah, he did do a lot of good work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Left behind a great legacy for sure. So he was a separate bucket as well. And I think you did a good job establishing. It's just weird that the government was like, yeah, look, bow tied and everything. Found his body. We're all good to go. He was in your old storage unit.

[B]

No, not mine. I just been there before. Yeah, just.

[A]

Yeah, because I've been to a lot of stores.

[B]

No, after the fact. It was after the fact.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My parents live, like, 45 minutes from

[A]

there, and they drove 45 minutes to it. That was the nearest storage facility. No, you're now a suspect.

[B]

No, you are not getting it. I visited after. Sorry, I'm eating your microphone. I went there after, like, after this whole thing. I wanted to check it out.

[A]

I didn't get that.

[B]

Yeah. You didn't get that. Yeah, no, no. I don't just, like, rent out a random storage facility in Salem.

[A]

You made it sound like the first time, like, yeah, I've been there before.

[B]

Yeah, I have.

[A]

That's how you said. Yeah, but, like, you have to say after.

[B]

Yes, sorry. Sorry. I went there after, but. But also, what was weird about that, too, is that they were surrounding the area that night, by the way, and he had already shot himself, like, hours before, so I don't. The whole thing is weird. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, well, they have to move the body, you know.

[B]

Yeah, but they were acting like, you know, we haven't apprehended the suspect yet. We haven't been. It was just. It was strange.

[A]

You got to send the fixer in there to make the scene what you need to be.

[B]

Yep. There you go.

[A]

I'll tell you, I was. I was filming something for Discovery Channel. It's gonna be coming out. Out in a week or two out in Colorado with Andy Bustamante, who is literally, like, the CIA guy who never saw a conspiracy he couldn't shut down and be like this. So real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was all the more stunning that he was the one proposing this. But he rebuilt Epstein's cell and also got a hold of every single publicly available at any point document related to the prison itself and related to the Epstein case as it relates to the prison itself. And blew my mind. Went through a whole physics representation of every place in the cell, including things on that one particular cell that are actually drawn differently on the schematic of the prison officially than what it actually looks like. And then looked at me and said, yeah. Not only do I not think he killed himself, which, you know, we pretty much all agree on that. He goes, I think they got him out.

[B]

Oh, God, don't tell me that. Yeah, don't tell me that and any.

[A]

And he made it. Said like. It was like. I'm like, you.

[B]

You.

[A]

You're telling me. You of all people are telling me you think he got out?

[B]

That is what.

[A]

Yeah. And that made me. Because he's like, oh, yeah, it's easy. Here's how they would have done it.

[B]

I'm like, so what? Did he have anything to say about the state of his prison cell? I have never seen a prison cell so messy.

[A]

Oh, he rebuilt it down to the prescription.

[B]

I was gonna say, so what. How. How are we not talking about, like, the fact that this guy is allowed in. In a federal prison or jail. I'm sorry. A federal jail, which obviously is now closed. He's allowed to have prescription pill bottles in there. He's allowed to. To have multiple sets of sheets and to literally keep his cell that messy. That makes absolutely no sense. Zero sense.

[A]

They also let him into the only prison cell that has an extra wall that creates an L that can block vision from the door, and that also creates a 4 by 8 room on the other side of it where someone could survive easily on MREs for up to 72 hours if they had to.

[B]

But then who. Who did they find? I mean, Dr. Baden did that autopsy. Who? They said he had a fractured thyroid.

[A]

That body had a prostate and he didn't have a prostate.

[B]

You saw this in the autopsy report.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

Why is this not talked about more? Why did I miss this?

[A]

Like, they don't want you to talk about it. I was suspicious because I'm like, why is Andy talking about this?

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Now. Now I'm like.

[B]

I'm like, just send me this information. I. I need to. I mean, that is so wild.

[A]

My whole thing is like. We filmed for eight hours that day, and he filmed. There's one other guy who's gonna be in that episode. He filmed the weekend before. You know, it's TV. They gotta cut this down to 43 minutes for an hour show. There's a lot people aren't going to see. So I'm going to see how it comes out and then, you know, talk with him. I know he was pushing Discovery to give him the footage so that he can also promote the show by putting the extra footage on the Internet, but I think people should. Because I didn't know what we were going to talk about when I went out there. He didn't tell me. So this is all. I'm getting it in real time. And I think people should be able to, like, look at what we said and look at all the documents and break it down for themselves and see if they can come up with something. But it was weird because I. I kept saying. I was saying it on camera and off camera. I'm like, you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're telling me that he got credibility?

[B]

I mean, no, but.

[A]

But then my brain was going the opposite. Like, why are you telling me this?

[B]

You're funny.

[A]

Why are you switching up 180?

[B]

So this hasn't come out yet, though. So really what you're saying is it's. It's coming out, and I feel like then it's going to really blow up. I. I feel like, because you telling me that somebody who really doesn't believe in any type of conspiracies, he goes directly on. On facts alone, not his facts. Yeah, but that his own research in facts that really piques my interest and that, I think really has legs. And I mean, when you. I am skeptical about the whole. When people comment, he's alive, he's alive. I'm like, okay, stop it.

[A]

I never thought that I really.

[B]

Okay, but those people that say that don't have proof. This guy, you know what I'm saying? Where it's like.

[A]

Like, fine, and, like, you'll see me. We're, you know. Because I've known him for a long Time. We're having a good time. I'm talkative, I'm busting his balls.

[B]

We're.

[A]

And you're probably only gonna see two minutes of the 65 minute conversation we had to start because again, like the other context. But then he says, look to your right and has the cell built there. I was like, what the. And takes me in there and I slowly get more and more speechless as it goes on because I start to realize where it's going. And then we get to the government docs and I'm just like, like, I'm like, I feel like this is bad tv cuz I. Wow. I'm just looking at like he proved that. I think I want to say was. There were two main reports that came out after it was FBI and doj. I want to say it was the FBI one. He showed that they took a picture of a different cell. He said, here's why this is not the same cell.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And there was. I'll just say, cuz it's not out yet, but there was another guy he brought in there the week before who I'll just say was in the prison who 100% has said for years, oh yeah, he killed himself. Like literally, like not that he's. Yeah, it was dead or alive. Like literally, like he even killed himself.

[B]

That author. It was no. Oh, do you know what I'm talking about though? That said he was next door and he's like, he definitely killed himself. Have you seen that guy? I forget his name. I'll find it. But yeah, continue. Sorry. Author. Yeah, he was like, he was, he was an author. He was, he was somewhat a known guy, but I think he just said that because he wanted to be released.

[A]

Yeah, that's a different guy. But what I'll say is that basically Andy brought this guy in, got him to confirm everything he said for years on camera, like, oh yeah, he's dead. He killed himself. Here's why, yada yada. And then took him in there and he said it was the same thing. By the end he was like, holy, he's alive.

[B]

Oh my.

[A]

Like the guy was so shocked. His whole world was like shattered.

[B]

I just got chills. I know, I really did.

[A]

I did too. I called deep, like halfway through the shoot, like, you're not gonna believe this, pal. You know?

[B]

Well, I mean it. I don't. Oh God, I don't know. John Luke Brunel, he was killed.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

So you think he was killed?

[A]

Jean Luc Brunel was absolutely, in my opinion, did not Commit suicide. I don't know any details of. We don't know any. That was in France. We don't know what was in that prison.

[B]

We don't know. But.

[A]

But they killed him on the Saturday morning of President's Day weekend in the United States. It's dead in the news cycle.

[B]

Isn't that insane?

[A]

They always do that.

[B]

Insane. I found that to be insane. I. I mean, yeah, it's. Oh, my gosh. I. That's what. I just. I don't know if I can believe. I don't know. I don't know anything. And it's funny. I have to watch what I talk about at home. I. You know, or I talk loudly. My kids are seven and a half and 10, and I don't even realize it sometimes, but we were at. I know, but I don't say. I don't even know. Like, so we're. We're at my daughter's baseball softball game. Sorry. I'm sitting on the bleachers and, you know, my husband's off doing whatever. It's just my daughter's playing. It's me and my son. There's other parents. And my son just, like, gets in my face. He's kind of like, you know, making faces like this. And he just yells, like, so weird. Out of nowhere. He just goes, jeffrey Epstein. Wicked loud. And all the parents are just like, like, what is this? He just says his name really loudly, literally for no reason. No reason at all. So weird. So awkward. I have no idea. I'm so embarrassed. And I'm like, what? Hell. And so I just. I did like a stupid, like, TikTok on it. And all the comments were like, did your son see him? Was he behind you? And I'm like, stop it. I'm like, stop it right now. I know. It freaked me out. It freaked me out.

[A]

Every other kid's going into school writing the Cat is in the Room, and your son's writing Jeffrey Epstein, literally.

[B]

Well, so what my. My son does. It's like another joke in our house, and it's. It's awful. He literally does this joke. I think I might have showed him a video, which is so dumb, but it was like a. A parody of this kid opening a gift for Christmas. And he just goes, the Epstein Files. Thanks, Santa. And my son says it all the time, and he's 7. And I've had to be like, dude, don't say that out loud. Like, it's really messed up. Yeah, I know. I love him. Makes me proud. No, I'm just Kidding. But, yeah. Oh.

[A]

Oh, my God. We've come a long way from genderless kindergarten, like, three years ago.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, now we've got. Now we've got Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, it's true.

[A]

Well, yeah, I don't. I don't know, to be clear. I'm just saying it. Definitely a lot of new things I hadn't seen. And, you know, when Andy gets into stuff, he had a dummy of the body there and he was, like, breaking the body in half and he's like, well, he's not dead that way.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And, like, doing all, like. Like perfectly, like, almost like an athlete. And it was so strange. And I'm just, like, looking at the camera filming me and all the crews, like, laughing.

[B]

I'm like, you say you. I'm excited for this.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

This is going to be great.

[A]

I don't know. But I got. I got you off the side just because we were talking about the MIT guy.

[B]

So. Yes, the.

[A]

Just real quick as. As a review for people who didn't see us break down the whole thing. The Novartis guy, his mom dies a month before. He's an only child. He's 45. He's married, but no kids. And his dad, an hour after his mom died, has a heart attack and dies in his arms. And he was depressed.

[B]

That's. What else do we know that. So basically, he worked for Novartis. His wife said he was very depressed because of his parents and he had been. He'd been struggling. That. That's what she said. I mean, there. There is a article on people, I believe. It's just. It kind of lays it all out for you. Also through a local affiliate as well. And again, he had no ties to the government, no crazy security clearance. I mean, I think that's just. You can. Very, very tragic, but I don't think you can group that in with. With.

[A]

Why did he get pulled into this?

[B]

I don't know. This was the Daily Mail, who sort of put it all together initially, I feel.

[A]

And. And that's the thing. And that's what hurts stories like this. That's why it's good to go case by case and. And be realistic about it, too, because it's like, I guess the headline is sexier when it's 11 missing scientists instead of 10. And it's definitely sexier than saying six missing scientists and related to places that could have scientists.

[B]

I get it. But I think it's way more interesting just kind of sticking with Reza and McCaslin, because that I just. Yeah, I don't see the issue with that. I don't.

[A]

Well, let's go through the three who are definitely not scientists, who are with Los Alamos and the Kansas City Nuclear Laboratory. So starting with Ms. Kassias.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She disappeared. She has. She decides to work remote one day, gets lunch with her daughter.

[B]

She forgot her badge or something like that. She said it wasn't, you know, but it wasn't anything. Wasn't anything crazy. She was last seen walking along the highway after.

[A]

Highway.

[B]

Yeah. After bringing her daughter lunch, I guess. And so the thing about this one with Melissa Cassius or Cassias. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that.

[A]

Cassius.

[B]

Okay. You know, she was in an administrative role. Typically they don't have a very high security clearance. There was a Dateline episode about her. Again, typically you're not going to do a Dateline episode on somebody who was taken out by the government.

[A]

The Dateline episode.

[B]

This is 2025 or. Here, let me.

[A]

So she has a date. Line up.

[B]

It was. Yeah. Or maybe here, here's the article from Dateline. So if you read. I don't know. Should I send this to one of you guys?

[A]

Yeah, can you send it to joeydeifgmail.com? he'll pull it up exactly how it sounds. D, E, E, F. Yep.

[B]

Oh, I already have your email.

[A]

That's. Wow.

[B]

Well, he's probably on the.

[A]

Oh, that's right. It never comes up to me when I do that. Yeah. Taos, New Mexico.

[B]

Oh, you already have it. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Melissa Cassius last seen walking eastbound on, on a highway in Tulpa on June 26. The 53 year old's belongings, including her car person phones were found inside her home. This is the one that was weird to me. Phone was factory reset.

[B]

I mean I don't. Have you done that?

[A]

No.

[B]

You've never done that before?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is that normal?

[B]

I don't think it's. I don't think it's totally abnormal.

[A]

What do you think?

[B]

I mean, so I feel. And let me. Hold on, let me make sure I'm doing this. Okay. So the, the factory reset. I mean, I mean obviously if you're planning on getting a new phone, you do that. Right? And then if, let's say you have, I don't know, issues with your phone, you, you can do that and then you can just sort of re. Download the cloud, whatever. So it's not common, but it's not. I think there could be an explanation for it. I just, you know, her family came out and said there was some financial issues as well.

[A]

That's important.

[B]

Yeah, I, I just don't, I think it was her. D, I, I, I can't.

[A]

So her daughter has spoken at some point?

[B]

Yes, yes. They, I mean, she, like, 25, something like that. Quotes. Yeah. All over. Literally all over. Dateline. Her, she picked up. Let's see. Her daughter, Sierra. Let me go make sure I have this. Oh, yeah. And, and her husband has spoken out too, to, To Dateline. I mean, there. I just feel like, Sorry. Yeah. I just feel like if, if the government was somehow involved with this or a foreign government, we, we wouldn't be hearing all of this. Or it wouldn't be. How do I say it?

[A]

Or they'd be trying to normalize it like any other missing person.

[B]

No, I don't think we would have all of the, like, we see her on surveillance. We haven't seen Anyone else, like McCaslyn or Raza on surveillance. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's been. And like, we have. Oh, she's, that's weird. She's walking along, you know, we have her last known location. It's just very, it's, it's just different to me.

[A]

Yeah. My, my only spec here was because, again, like you said, executive assistant, she's not working on the nuclear codes, but she's at Los Alamos, which has some of the most classified shit in the country there. The only spec was like, did she see something she wasn't supposed to see? And then we're like, does she get a call from Liam Neeson saying, I'm a danger to people like you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then decides, nope, I gotta tell someone about this, and doesn't shut up. And they're like, all right, well, you need to come meet us. And she never makes it home. I, that's, that is really pure spec.

[B]

That, that is, that is an option. Sure, she saw something that she shouldn't have seen. But however, I go back to, why would they.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Why would she be walking along the street, you know, or the highway? I'm sorry, why, why would she do that? Why would she have all these things that morning that were seemingly, you know, forgetting her badge from work and what, you know what I mean? Like, if, if the government was planning to do something or if an official at Los Alamos was planning to do. You know what I mean? It doesn't.

[A]

Highway person.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't really ask up to me.

[A]

I, I, I lean towards what you Say, it's just. It's. It's a little bizarre. The. The thing that's also another possibility is the fact that she just. She used the excuse of, like, forgot her badge to be able to stay home and then took her daughter to lunch.

[B]

She brought her daughter, like, a Subway sandwich at work and she dropped it off. Is that so?

[A]

Did she see her daughter?

[B]

She did. And apparently this was a common thing. Sometimes she would bring her daughter lunch. The one thing, I guess that's weird. There is a report that she possibly got into a car, but we don't know the make and model of the car that. That I can. I can find.

[A]

Well, that would explain why she was walking along the highway. She was looking for someone who was going to scoop her quickly.

[B]

Well, and so if that is true, that she did get into a vehicle. I mean, that. Yeah, unfortunately. And she's never been seen again, we could.

[A]

Could.

[B]

We could speculate. Something very dark happened.

[A]

Of course. But why is she on the highway in the first place? Why she leave all her stuff behind? Why does she make sure she sees her daughters if it's gonna be one last time?

[B]

You're asking good questions. I just feel like we don't. We don't know.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's enough.

[B]

We don't know anything. Yeah, I. Yeah, I mean. And she left. Yeah, she left her personal items behind. Again. Weird. But I. I don't know. I.

[A]

It's a tough one.

[B]

Yeah, Melissa is tough. I just go back to, like, you didn't. You didn't really have enough clearance, I guess, but you make a good. Unless you saw something. Unless you saw something. I. Yeah, one other thing. She. Her daughter found a check also that her mother never took to the bank that she was supposed to cash again.

[A]

From whom?

[B]

I. I don't know. It's just from her daughter. Like, her daughter gave her check, said, you know, cash this. I. I'm assuming it was from her or from whatever, but I will say, I don't know if you've ever done this, but, like, if I think I'm just running out really quickly for something. Like, I don't. Like, even if I'm working from home, you know, my kids, schools, like, three blocks away. I will just walk out the door and go get them.

[A]

100. What kind of highway was this, by the way? Are we Talking like an i95 kind of thing or like a. A1. A kind of thing.

[B]

Thing meaning, like. Yeah.

[A]

Could you, like, literally live on the highway or. How close did she live to the highway?

[B]

Three miles. She lived. All right.

[A]

See, that's the weird part. I do sometimes go outside without taking a wallet or anything, but I'm walking in the bodega downstairs. You know what I mean? I'm not walking three miles to go to a highway and hold up my thumb and say, need. Need a ride?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I, I don't, I don't know.

[A]

I mean, look, maybe she had, she, she was, I don't know, like cheating on her husband or so. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. Her husband is baffled. They are. Her family is absolutely baffled. They have no idea. Zero clue. Zero clue. I think this is an incredibly strange disappearance. We don't know enough to know if, if it is connected. Again, it's, you know, I go back to like when I am working on these cases and I'm trying to independently verify.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The places of work. Los Alamos, the kcnsc. The, the Public affairs office. I mean it's, I think for, it was for the Wright Patterson. I called, I wanted to, to check in about General McCaslin and, and public Affairs. They were very nice. But the woman I spoke to was like, we can only tell you like six months from six months prior. And also we can't even tell you anything. We can just say yes or no. It was really weird. So I was like, okay, so if I want to know if XYZ person was there, you know that you can just say yes. And she said, that's correct. The Casey nsc. I'm actually on a ticketed wait list for verification about Steven Garcia. I just wanted to know how long he was there. He was the reported custodians, manager of weapons. Manager. How do you. I'm, I'm mispronouncing that. Sorry. He was the custodian of weapons.

[A]

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong here, when we were looking at it, is that effectively he was like Ben Stiller a night at the museum. He had access to everything. He's not necessarily doing anything with it. But he knows where all the bodies are buried.

[B]

That is correct. And I actually did an interview this morning with a deputy administrator of the National Nuclear Security Administration. He was under the Biden administration. And he said someone like Steven Garcia, while they may not know everything like you said, they do have a very high security clearance. They have access to all of these non nuclear weapons because you know, the KCNSC is responsible for making 80% of the non nuclear components. You know that. So I, I go back to Steven Garcia. I think his might have been A mental health crisis.

[A]

Yeah. What can we go to the story there and what happened? He took a handgun as well.

[B]

Yeah. He has been missing. I mean, so his family, I have not been able to get in touch with. I've. I've reached out a few times, and again, I've tried to independently verify his, his job. Exactly. But he was last seen actually holding a weapon, holding a handgun. And the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office, you know, they made a note saying that he might be a danger to himself

[A]

when the report came in. So his family said he. We. Did they report him missing?

[B]

Well, yes, they reported him missing, but, like, we don't, you know, we don't know exactly how that went down, but. When was this again? This was August of 2025.

[A]

Okay. So. And we don't know exactly how it went down, but at some point he leaves the house. Was it midday? Was it night? Do we know anything?

[B]

Yeah, midday.

[A]

Midday, he leaves his house. So he's not at work? No, no, he wasn't going to work.

[B]

Nope. He was in the, the. I think if you've seen the still photo, he's in, like, cargo shorts and like a. Yeah. And I mean, you can see on Facebook, too, there's. There's family members saying, please, you know, help find him if anyone knows anything. And they're, they're sharing the flyer. There's no information about, you know, he, he may have been going through it. He. I, I haven't seen anything like that. But, but going back to, you know, just guys like, like this guy I spoke to, Frank Rose, they are under a lot of pressure. It's. It's a very, you know, chaotic and just a stressful place to work. So they're not immune to mental health issues, of course, you know, so, like,

[A]

think about the timeline. Like, to be clear, when you look across the 11, it's between 2022 and 2026. But think about the state of the world in this timeline. It's right post pandemic when. Which was a lot of things going on there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, you know, Ukraine breaks out, and suddenly there's a hot war in Eastern Europe with East and west on a proxy. And that keeps going. Now there's almost 2 billion, 2 million bodies from that four years later, which for NAMP, whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is crazy. And then, then you have the Gaza thing break out that now in 2025, by the way, a couple months before this breaks into a whole nuclear question with Iran. And we go and bomb Iran and bomb Their nuclear facilities, which they claim was a success and clearly wasn't, you know, or it was not what they said based on the fact that then we went in there nine months later. So, like, all these, The. The. If this were a population hot on your. On your stove, that you were boiling the water, the steam is coming through the top lid, and you got to put the pasta in now or that shit's gonna blow at some point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. No, absolutely, absolutely. I. I feel like this one is. Is separate. I do.

[A]

Separate.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, the details. The details initially, when you don't necessarily go beyond the headlines. And I think that, you know, when I first. First saw this headline and I first saw him with a gun, my initial thought was like, this is chilling Because Neil McCaslin also disappeared, you know, in New Mexico, reportedly walking out with a gun. But then you look a little further and you're like, okay, these men are completely different. They are not the same. They are absolutely not the same. I mean, a lot of people go missing every year. Right?

[A]

Let's say, though, so let's play this out. Let's say I'm a North Korean undercover agent. What could I do with a guy like Steven Garcia if I plucked him?

[B]

I mean, that's. That's a. That's a good point. That's a really good point. However. However. And if you want to get conspiratorial again, you gotta ask questions. No, but. But I'm saying, like, the. The fact that law enforcement was like, he could be considered a danger to himself, you know, was that.

[A]

I think I started to ask you this, but we got on something else with it. Was that based on things the family had said when they called it in?

[B]

This. This is what I am assuming. We don't know exactly. However, when you see a guy holding a gun. Yeah, no, what's interesting is, like, why would you not assume that he's a danger to others if he's holding a handgun? Why are you just assuming himself? You know what I mean? So I don't really understand why we haven't really kind of peeled back layers there. I would think that you see a still like that and you're like, whoa, whoa. But, no, he's a danger to himself.

[A]

And here it is. Deep, has it up. So he's. Is that a gun in his right hand?

[B]

Yes, apparently that's. That's the gun. Exactly.

[A]

He's. As you said, he's not in any kind of work uniform. He's just in regular Civilian clothes again, like. And. And. And maybe it's just he's going through it, and it could very well be that it's just weird that he worked where he worked and had access to what he accessed. Because. Because a guy like this. Do we know how close to his house that is? Or that's just sometime later?

[B]

We don't. I can. So it's. We don't know exactly how close. No, he is not. And. And again, that's what I would like to know. I would like to know more about that. But there's not much out there about Stephen Garcia, which is why I'm trying to get in touch with family. So if you hear this. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I'm here. I'm here to help. Maybe he's getting.

[A]

Maybe some North Korean agent calls him and says, hello, Stephen. We're right outside like you are. If you tell anyone about this, maybe, you know, could.

[B]

Maybe. Right. Like, none of us can say yes or no. Yeah. Without a. Or beyond a shadow of a doubt, I guess. But.

[A]

Okay, here we go. Here's some details. Deeps on it. So on June 26, 2025.

[B]

Oh, no, that's Melissa. Yeah.

[A]

Do we have a story? Can you find a story like this for Garcia? So if it gives any kind of time.

[B]

The Daily Mail, their initial story, who they got from a source. It really just says. Especially on the. On the missing photo, it just says, last seen in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this is the same one you're looking at.

[B]

No, I. I mean, I haven't looked at this one in a while, but.

[A]

Okay. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It doesn't say, like, he disappeared at 12:15pm it's just more general.

[B]

Yeah. But what's. It's surprising, though, that there's, you know, there wasn't any standalone local media articles, because there actually were some standalone local articles on Anthony Chavez, who disappeared, who worked Los Alamos. Yeah, there's some standalone articles there, but for this guy, not much.

[A]

Not much.

[B]

No.

[A]

And. And that's where it doesn't help, because here's the other thing, and we're not saying this, but this is a good little sidebar because you gotta think like this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is this just a giant distraction? There's a lot of stories.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That they want out of the news. The good thing is we keep covering all the other ones, too. But a lot of people start talking about this now, maybe they, you know, move on from the Iran war, which is a big cluster. That was a distraction, potentially Essentially just saying pure spec for the Epstein files, which was an even bigger cluster fuck. And they're like, all right, let's give them. You know, back there, Don Draper's drunk, and he's going give them missing scientists.

[B]

No, I. I literally said that the other day. I totally agree with you. There's also an element where the White House is almost. And a lot of these congressmen who are going on the news, James Comer, Eric Burleson, there's an element. Tim Burchett and, you know, I really respect these guys. I do. But there is an element there where they love getting clipped and they love going viral, and they love saying these, oh, if you would have seen what I saw, you know, and stuff like that. And then. And then, you know, again, I think we had brought this up or we had sort of talked about this. You're like, there's no. There's no public cause of death for this one guy. And I'm like, well, yes, there is. A lot of these guys are saying that, but they're not actually digging in yet. They're just sort of. They're still grouping them together, and they're not. Not peeling back the layers of each and every one. And they're too agreeable almost. You know.

[A]

You know what I didn't like when Peter Doocy asked about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Caroline Levitt, who's been in hell. Been in hell for the past four months, and, you know, with these press secretaries, I. If there's one thing I will give to them, because I've been extremely critical of her, extremely critical of KCP before her. Their job is to go live. Like, their job is to go out there and they say, you're gonna say this, and, like, it puts them in an awful position. And, man, do they look awful doing it. But, like, she, like, smiled when she got this one. Like, oh, that's a nice one. Oh, yeah, no, we're gonna look into the missing scientist. I'm like, why are you excited to hear about 11 people dead?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Disappeared.

[B]

And like I said, all of a sudden, these statements were just, like, so agreeable. They were so, like, we.

[A]

We.

[B]

We're taking this seriously. These are very important people. Blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, okay, that was. That was surprising. And then the next thing you know, it's like, every time one of these guys are on. On Fox or, you know, wherever, mainly Fox, they're talking about how seriously they're taking it and how important these people were and how they had, you know, XYZ security clearances. And, and you're just like, okay, you know, why is no one. Or I should say why are none of these congressmen skeptical? Why. And I say this about Democrats, actually. And, and I'm not trying to be political here, because I'm going to go ahead and I'm gonna obviously say this about Republicans, but something that was always concerning to me about the Democrats is they always seem to agree on everything. And that is weird. I'm just like, really? You know, with COVID you want to close the schools. You guys unanimously agree. I mean, you want to close every. You guys all agree. Not one of you has anything to say about this. Okay, got it. Republicans right now, not one of you is stepping up and saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me just, Let me tell you guys this. This might be too. This might be a coincidence. Or I don't agree with. With this. Not one person has stepped up and said that. The Republicans all agree.

[A]

It's all a. It is all just a group thing. Think power, bureaucracy. And I'll admit I'm an optimist when it comes to life in the world. I'm a total cynic when it comes to the government, and I've been that way since 2017, like, literally on record. And, you know, every accusation you see turns into a projection of something that is very similar. Maybe it's not the same thing. Maybe the Democrats say there's no such thing as a gender, but then the Republicans say there's no such thing as a sex traffic victim. For Jeffrey episode Epstein, these are two different things, but birds of the same feather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I, I think it's a great point you make watching the instantaneous agreeableness on this. And then two hours later, Trump's in front of Marine Chopper 1. He's like, yeah, we're looking into it. It's a big deal. And it's like, yeah. And it's like, okay, he probably can't even name one of the people in the. In.

[B]

In that, you know, and think about the Republican infighting. I mean, they, I, I actually always respected that about the Republican Party. I loved the fact that they were always fighting. They couldn't agree. I just, I felt like that was just. It's. It's nuanced. Politics are nuanced, and I think it's healthy. And I. Yes. And so again, I go back and I always was criticizing the Democrats for just kind of being like, well, you know, we agree on. And I'm just like, so now I'm looking at The Republicans. And I'm like, not one of you is asking questions on the other side. Not one of you. You're all like, yes, this is very serious. And we need. It's just like, okay, now you're making.

[A]

That's why we went to Iran.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Basically, scientists just went missing.

[B]

Yeah. Yep. So, going back to what you said, do I think this could be a distraction? Definitely. Absolutely. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail]. own the dream.

[A]

I've just watched. I've had a lot of people stopping me actually, on the street. And it's crazy. Like, this is such a low bar, but stopping me and saying, dude, you know, the fact that you and D are staying with reporting on the files for at least some part of your episode every week, week, and you're periodically bringing in some guests to cover this is so important. And do not stop, because that was now, like, five stories ago, and everyone is moving on, and it's like, the biggest story ever. And it gives me some reassurance that, like, at least we're doing our little teeny part here. But, like, this is the reality. It's always been the reality for humans. We all run in a crowd towards the latest noise. And it's not to say you shouldn't look at it. That's why we're doing this podcast right now. But I'm always going to keep it like, yo, so, all right, we were just talking about this other story. We'll come over here and look at this right now. But we want to wonder why we're looking at this. All the reasons, including the ones that are not convenient for the people who want us to look at it. And we're also not going to forget about this over here. You can do both. You can walk and fucking chew gum at the same time.

[B]

But let me. Let me ask you, though, what. What are you trying to accomplish, I guess, at this point, with the Epstein files? Because I personally believe that we are never, ever getting what we want. We're never going to get the unredacted files. We're never going to get the names of these johns. These Powerful men. We have an idea who a lot of them are. You know, I mean, I. I just feel like guys like just Staley, for example. He's not. He's not going to prison. There's nothing. He. There's. We. Sorry. I. I want to be. I want to say this in a way that won't get me sued or, you know, whatever, but it's just, like, we can agree he did some things. Dean Kamen, who's actually from my hometown. I felt like he was implicated in some very, very gross ways. And the files. He's never. I mean, what are we doing? Like, what are we.

[A]

You know, cynically, I agree with you. I think that likely. If you held a gun to my head and said, based on the probabilities, what will this be? I agree that it'll get covered up and people won't. Won't be shown justice. What I will be able to say is that my little teeny corner of the Internet where I did what I could. I did everything I could. Like, I won't be able to say, I didn't do everything I could. Yeah, that's it. You know, and, like, that sucks, because at the end of the day, that's like saying, oh, here's a nice participation trophy.

[B]

Look, I did.

[A]

Gold star.

[B]

Yeah. And you know what's funny, too? It's like, you. I just feel like so many. So many people in Congress were so fake about it. You know, you had Marsha Blackburn at one point, just. You know, she just loved just being, you know, in the. The. The. In the spotlight, the center of attention, demanding the files, all these things. And now all of a sudden, where are you now? Where is she now? Literally? Have we heard from her? Have we heard from her about the files? And I don't even know.

[A]

I just feel like Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, you don't have. You don't have to necessarily turn against Trump to demand the files. I. I just don't.

[A]

Apparently, you do now. Well, all because you said it's a giant hoax.

[B]

Yeah, that was funny. That was funny. That was crazy.

[A]

And then it. It's nuts. It's. It's absolutely nuts. And it's really, like, you know, I understand why people were completely disillusioned with the last administration. They were objectively awful on everything that GasLit America for four years over and over again, starting with the fact that Joe Biden literally wasn't, like, alive for four years. I mean, it's. It's ridiculous. So I don't. I'm not One of these people that's going to be like, how could people vote for Trump? I understand exactly why they did, but it was a, it was a mistake in independent media for people to endorse him. And I don't, I'm not slighting those people at all. It wasn't an opportunity for me to interview him and bring them on here. I wasn't big enough to do it. So, you know, easy for me to sit in my glass house and say that. But I did say that to people at the time. I said that this is, this is going to be a regret threat even. I did not think it would go this far. It would go as far as him starting another endless war. Hopefully it's not going to be in Iran. It would go as far as him gaslighting people on the Epstein files. It would go as far as him literally pushing away and turning away all the people who got him into office, including people I don't even like, by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In some cases, you know, it's like, like. And you're gonna listen to Mark Levin.

[B]

I mean, I definitely, I do try to, I don't know, I try to stay away from politics, but it's. I, I will say I, I do think and I, I hope I do, I think I judge each side pretty, pretty equally, although I do lean more conservatively and that's sort of where my background is. But I, I'm an independent thinker. So I have been super vocal about certain things, you know, with the Trump administration. Pam Bondi, I definitely. But I don't know at this point, I, I just think that I don't, I don't know what happened to us. I guess, like, I don't know how else to say it. Like, I don't know what happened to us.

[A]

By the way, the people given, like the Democrats a pass on these Epstein story. On the Epstein story. Fuck that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Five, four or five administrations have covered this up. Left and right. People guilty are on the left and right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like now it's just politically expedient for them to be able to read a statement and make some idiot witness look bad because, you know, they it up or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And no, no, we're not giving any credit. The only people that I look at and I go, they have consistently done things that were even unpopular at the time for either of their parties are like, like Roana Massie and to an extent, Nancy Mace, you know, and it's just, it's, it has been the biggest exposure to me of the system Being rancid. And also, you know, the fact that these people that you think are like, you know, in some cases going to be your godsend on the left or right side of the aisle, they're not, they're. They report to a guy who reports to a guy and the guy they report to in the middle in some cases is someone who owns an island and kids. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, what's your, what's your thought on the insane allegations of eating babies or children?

[A]

We do not have definitive proof of it. And this is really important to say the fact that I can't rule it out though, because there are emails you can point to where you're like, maybe baby is crazy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And the fact that we, there's 3 million files that we know of that still haven't been released. What do they say in it? And what some of the congressmen from both sides of the aisle who have seen, some of them have said is not exactly reassuring. It's like we have dipped so low that it is on the table that something like cannibalism or I don't even know, could exist. But to, for me, if I went into a court of law right now with the publicly available information, went to make that case.

[B]

Case.

[A]

The jury deliberates for an hour and comes back and says no case.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the fact that they even have to think about it, six months ago, the jury wouldn't have even left the room.

[B]

Yes. I, I mean it, it sounds insane. And again, if you would have asked me about something like this a couple years ago, I would have laughed you out of the room. And not to, to get on a tangent, but I was investigating a case out of Utah and it was sort of becoming a string of cases and it was about this psychiatrist who was accused of. He was reportedly a high ranking member of the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Church. Mormon, but he was accused of actually being a high ranking member of the Church of Satan and his daughter had. It's a whole thing. But basically they had written a victim impact statement that's very long. I didn't sleep for weeks after reading it. And the crazy part is they had named some names in this victim impact statement and one of the names was at the time, the district attorney. The district attorney actually held a press conference about this and addressed these allegations and said it was all for political gain because an election was coming up. And by the way, this district attorney, his name is David Levitt, he moved to Scotland and he bought a castle apparently. And he's. Yeah. And by the way, the other thing about him, David, that's what you do.

[A]

You move to Scotland.

[B]

Well, well. So this crazy person, this crazy guy, his. You might have heard of this guy. He was a fugitive. I'm blanking on his last name. It's been a minute, Nick.

[A]

I'll tell you what. You want to grab it? And then let's dig deep into this. I got to go to the bathroom really bad, but I want to hear about this.

[B]

How dare you. Yeah, I got it.

[A]

All right. We'll be right back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, we're back. So you found this guy's last name?

[B]

Yeah. So his name is. Is Nick. Nicholas Rossi. Okay. And Nicholas Rossi, essentially, he. He was a fugitive. He was wanted for rape in Utah, and he was later found in Scotland because he had Covid. He wound up in a hospital. And David Levitt was prosecuting his case. And Nick Rossi, he went by another name as well. And it. He was publishing parts of the victim impact statement on Twitter, on a website, and it was. It was bad. It was very bad. So it did not make David Levitt look very good. His wife also was named in some of these. Some of these writings, I should say. And he extradited him back, and he ended up putting him in prison because he was convicted on this. This rape charge, which kind of gave David Lovett some elevation here. But David Lovett also, he has done several interviews around an adoption of a child, a indigenous child, I guess, where the father has stated that they want this child. Child's back because they did not agree to this adoption. He had some connect. It's very weird. He had some connections with somebody in. In the. On the tribal land, and this exchange was done, and. And the father, again, did not agree to this. So it's a whole thing. But now David Levitt doesn't live here. However, the therapist, David Lee Hamblin, whose daughter wrote this victim impact statement, they. I've heard they're gonna be filing a civil suit. I haven't seen anything like that. But other people came out after and accused David Lee Hamblin of assaulting them when they were patients of his or when they were kids. And he was charged, but he's never gone to trial. There's always been some kind of. Of administration issue or clerical issue or. Yeah, whatever. But it's so much more than that. I can't even really do it justice. This whole story, I guess.

[A]

You know, I think about this all the time. It's just making me think of this specific example right here. But the greatest season of TV ever written was the first season of True Detective.

[B]

That was good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So this came out January 2014. Nick Pizzolato wrote it I think in 2012 and 2013. You know, unbelievable work. But for people who haven't seen it, it's, it's basically turns in this whole Louisiana good old boys network that involves child trafficking and rape and just the most disgusting things ever. And the more the years go by, the more I think two things. A, Nick was Earl to something that's been going on for a long time and B, that did not just. And I'd love to bring Nick on the show open invite to discuss like how he wrote this because it was unbelievable what he put together. And then McConaughey and Harrelson obviously did an incredible job. But like I feel like it came from somewhere meaning like Nick had heard about some of these networks that existed and done really good research on what it was and was able to bring it to life in a fictionalized version. But when I hear stories and this is not the far from the only one that exists like what you're talking about and when we see something like the Epstein thing playing out in front of us, it's like the really uncomfortable conversation is that things like this are far more widespread and far more socially power driven than we would have in any way ever even imagined.

[B]

Oh yeah, I mean I, I did not, how do I say this upon looking at the Utah case and, and by the way, one of the daughters did go to police and, and her case was thrown out I believe a decade ago. And then others, thankfully others came forward and, and by the way, when her case was was thrown out, reportedly they had him on a recording apologizing to one of his daughters for, for raping them. This is David Lee Hamblin and I feel comfortable saying this out loud because again he did have a, you know, there was a case against him. I don't know where it's at now. I have to check. But when I read this victim impact statement and I mentioned to you I, I didn't really sleep. It was because I, I did not not think that this type of thing existed. I mean the details that they got into and when we talk about eating babies, for example, there is a whole section about impregnating just for the purpose of aborting and then eating. Obviously I don't have proof of this. This of course but you know, if you live through the 80s, the satanic panic, you know, there are was it groups of People that do this. So what? I mean. Yeah, yeah. No, really. And, and just the other part of this is because, because this area in Utah, the American Fork area, it is close to a lot of these, these tribal lands. Some of these children, they don't have birth certificates. They don't actually technically exist. So if you take one of these children and you, let's say, sacrifice them, who's going to come looking for them? It makes me really sad to think about because there are at least two instances in this document that talks about that. And I want to be clear. I'm not, I'm only naming the names that are, are, you know, that have come out there and denied the allegations and are on record saying that, you know, yes, they, they acknowledge that they were accused, but they didn't do anything. There are names in there that have really sued a lot of people and a lot of Utah based content creators about this. But I do know that there are still survivors out there who want their story told. And it just sucks because they're silenced by the system because they don't have the money for an attorney. They don't have the money to, you know, to, to stand up against the giant. Right.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's, it is, it's, it's terrifying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, and again, it ties together unfortunately so perfectly when they're close to a place where they can get kids that don't exist on the ledger and do what they do. And it's hard not to think about, you know, how deep does a secret society like that go? What, what do they have access to that makes them believe that, you know, their sickness is doing what, what they're supposed to do. I, I, I, I, I can't, in some ways, I'm really grateful. I can't fathom that. But it is. You know, I also got to imagine when you do a lot of these stories, like, as a woman too, and when you see like, like, you know, and to be clear, it's also young boys in a lot of cases too. But when you see like young women totally taken advantage of and silenced or killed or what, Worse, I don't know, you know, that's got to hit home.

[B]

It's, you know, I think without, without sounding insensitive. Also, I think when I look at these stories and then I, these stories which are so horrific and where you have victims or survivors who have just been through it and then, you know, sitting in court for Harvey Weinstein's third retrial, where even the prosecutors are saying, okay, this girl was in a four year relationship with Harvey. Right. They did have consensual sex. He did things for her. He took her here, he took her there. You know, we're trying him on one occasion in a hotel room where she says that she said no, again, it's, it's just like, I don't, Sorry, I don't want to get canceled for saying this. It's such a fine line to toe, but you are sitting there and you were like, okay, you, you were having sexual relations with this man for four years. It's clear she wasn't very proud of that. Right? He's disgusting. Very powerful. You have to see the evidence. You. I was there for part of trial two in New York. Then I, I switched over to Diddy. But when you, you hear a lot of this evidence and, and I am only talking about the Jessica Mann case. Case specifically. I'm not talking about California. I know that he assaulted women. Or else why the hell would he pay such a huge sum of money for part of these civil suits if he wasn't actually guilty? In my opinion, he is guilty there. But when you hear about this, you're just like, man, I have real, I've spoken to victims who have horrible stories, and I understand there's also a, you know, not every story is the same. Not every survivors. You know, I get that. I totally get that. There's just something about it, you know, when you're sitting there and you're like, okay, well, you know, this feels strange.

[A]

Some are more compelling than others for sure.

[B]

Yeah. It just doesn't, I don't know. And I mentioned to you guys when I walked in, like, you know, we're in court yesterday and Alvin Bragg walks in and you're like, oh, yeah, like, go get the criminal. Yeah, no, he's the da. It's like, go catch the criminals, please. Like this man in a wheelchair that is basically dead. Like, he's basically dead. I'm sorry. Like, he's not a threat to our city. Right now you're trying this man for a third time on a class E felony. You know, like, I, I, I understand where maybe as a whole it's important to, to the survivors or to, you know, people that, that, but it's political

[A]

theater at the end of the day, him coming.

[B]

Hundred percent. Do you think if this guy's name was like, Johnson Har, like we'd be here for that? Harvey Johnson? No, we wouldn't be. It's because he's Harvey Weinstein. And for whatever reason, Alvin Bragg thinks that like winning that case will make him look good. And I just. I think it's. It's the opposite. I'm. I'm kind of pissed that we're spending our, you know, I live in Manhattan. My money is going to that trial. It's so silly.

[A]

I understand.

[B]

And then. And also the Jessica man, the. The victim and all this, like, she has to tell her story over and over again. Again. I'm not especially moved by her story because that's. That's my opinion. But that doesn't mean that, you know, she didn't necessarily go through it. Sure. I'm just saying to make her get up there for. Right. How many times now that also seems weird.

[A]

Yeah. It's just those cases are also, you know, like, we hear about the Weinstein one because of. And righteously so, like, how powerful he was and. And the people he took advantage of. But then. Then there's all these other cases that are powerful people that just maybe aren't on the news, national news, or you don't know their name or whatever, but it's the same kind of thing or worse. And, you know, you're going out there and getting the stories. So I, I was unfamiliar with the Utah one. I have to look into that.

[B]

You have to. You have to look it up. I. Like I said, it actually makes me sad that I, I can't. I wasn't ready to, or I guess I wasn't prepared to speak on it, but. But I went so deep. I went so deep. Up all night talking to survivors. I mean, it. It's. It's a lot. It's crazy. So maybe. Maybe for another time. I'll. Yeah. Refresh on. Yeah, that's him. He is. Yeah. No, I. It's.

[A]

Yeah, we got. We Also deep. We got to get Pizzolato in here. We got to figure that out. He's ghost noted as a writer, but. Yeah. All right, well, let's get. Let's get back to the missing scientists because we left off. Garcia was interesting, some lack of details, but also reported as a danger to himself, but not other people. That could be a clerical mistake or it could be what the. But the guy, Chavez, who was retired, 78 years old, retired from Los Alamos. He had been. Prior to working at Los Alamos, he worked at an H Vac company. So the way I understood the reporting was that he had a high level clearance, similarly to Garcia, because he had access to a lot of serious stuff at Los Alamos, but he wasn't a scientist, and he was probably Working on H Vac. Some of that was a little unclear. What do you know?

[B]

Yes, I. So I also reported that he was an H Vac tech. Now, again, I could not independently verify this through Public Affairs. I am still working on it. But he disappeared in May of 2025 on foot. He left his home in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and his neighborhood was the. The Denver Steel's neighborhood, which is not as isolated. Right. As some of the others. But his wallet, keys and cigarettes were on the living room table and his car was locked in the driveway. And he per. A friend had. His friend said he never carried a cell phone, so would.

[A]

Did he have any documented medical issues pertaining to potential early onset dementia or something like that that people have discussed?

[B]

Nope, not. Not that's been reported.

[A]

He's never been seen again. There's no body.

[B]

No body. He. They said he hiked in Pueblo Canyon often, but it didn't seem like he left home that day to prepare for a hike. Right. And the weather wasn't that great. Great. So why he left his home, that remains a mystery.

[A]

Do we know how long ago he had retired from Los Alamos?

[B]

I don't. I'm. Again, I'm not. No, I'm not sure. Again, that just goes back to Public affairs being like, sorry. So it's tough. You got to find sources. I did reach out to. To one source that I found on Facebook. I'm still waiting. So that seems to be the key here. But again, it's like not many people want to talk about this.

[A]

Right. And again, that could be nothing too, because he wasn't one of the scientists or something like that. He was someone at least working on at least something else. It's not related to actually dealing with any weaponry or advanced technology, but he could have had access to see something he wasn't supposed to see. If you want to go there. Pure spec. But. So that's the three that were the non. Guaranteed, non scientists. We covered the MIT guy and we. And we. We covered Jason Thomas, the Novartis guy, which seems to be totally, totally separate. But then there's two more classes. The first one is Amy Eskridge, and then the second one is the five scientists, some of whom we've already covered. We'll knock out a couple more and then kind of get to McCaslin a little more. Yeah, but Amy Eskridge, like I was saying, when we had a chance to look at some videos of her and everything over the weekend after we recorded this last one, some of it feels a little Bit like, and I don't mean to be insensitive here, but that she was a little nutty. Definitely not dumb. For sure. She was definitely smart. I do have a friend who I'll say, spoke with someone very close to her this weekend who assured him that, A, she was dead, b, it was suicide, and C, yes, she was smart and could work on some things, but she thought she was a 10 on the smart scale. But she overestimated how smart she was and drove herself crazy because of that. And so that's why, like, whenever. Yes. There are times, of course, when people are like, I am not suicidal, and things like that, where they're saying it in a perfectly calm tone and just being clear as, you know, a. A kill switch kind of whatever. With her, it was a little bit more like. Are. Are you not, you know, like. Like there. I'm just saying hers was. She wasn't the kind of buttoned up person Carl Grillmare was.

[B]

Yes. 100. I. I would agree with that. Her parents have come out and said, look, scientists died. Oh, they have, yes. Her. Her father said this. Dr. Richard Eskridge, who was a former NASA scientist and also founded the Institute of Exotic Science with Amy. They work together. And look, her messages have been surfacing online recently, which, yeah, they say things like, she thinks she's being watched. Someone went through her underwear drawer. She feels threatened. It is in writing that she said this before her death, which I think fuels more speculation as to, like, look how perfect this is. She was saying that somebody was after her and then she died. Well, I had a source reach out to me and. And say that she was suffering from some delusions. I. You know, again, it's tough because, you know, now we can't say one way or another. Right. Because we. We are not privy to all of her work. We know that she did not have any type of government clearance. Right. She had. No, no, not that. Not that I could find. I know that she. Those videos she keeps saying disclosure is coming out of Huntsville. It is coming, in my opinion, some of those videos. And I'm. I'm not a doctor. Right, of course. She seems a little twitchy, almost like something tweaking, something like on some kind of medication that I couldn't necessarily pinpoint, but it all felt too odd and too perfect that she was saying these things. And then it's like, you know, she didn't. She didn't kill herself. There's no way. Eric Burleson recently came out, and there's no proof behind this, but he Said that she could have been affected by something called Havana syndrome, which is a condition tied to unexplained neurological symptoms. So. And, and that could have been that she was exposed to something. Right. When she directed energy. Yes, there you go. So again, you know, but Ross Coulter has come out and said, no, she did not kill herself. You know, and he's done the research.

[A]

But Ross also said the egg was an alien.

[B]

Yeah, listen, I, I just don't. I'm not.

[A]

No disrespect, I just, I, I think Ross sometimes runs with anything in the I want to believe syndrome case. So that's not the. For a story like this. That's not the guy I'm gonna go to first on the facts.

[B]

Right, agree. I totally agree with you.

[A]

I'm not trying to shred him.

[B]

No. But I think it's important that we sort of put all this, you know, in one pot and then kind of stir it and see what we have here. But yeah, I don't think that. I think that she most likely killed herself.

[A]

And it was also misleading when the Daily Mail came out with it and said 11 scientists now dead for the missing scientists, when in fact this was back in 2022.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And she would have been the first one on the list, by the way, that's deceased. Do we have a video of her talking deep so that, so that people can see this? I'm sure there's something.

[B]

It's the one where she's like. It's kind of from the, the neck up almost. That's where I sort of felt the, the tweakiness of I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Now she's in Huntsville. That. He's gonna pull this up in a second. She's in Huntsville. That's where NASA has. I. What is it? Redstone Lab, or am I making that up? Is that what it is?

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

It's like Redstone Lab or something like that. Basically they work on all kinds of propulsion stuff there. Huntsville is also one of the places where like the operation paper Clip clip, you know, Nazi scientists. Yeah. Redstone Arsenal ended up going to similarly to Wright Patterson, which you mentioned earlier. And I put a little check mark in that. We'll come back to that. You know, there's a lot of alien related or UFO related folklore from those places, some of which may not be folklore at all. It could have some truth to it, but you know, that all being together and then the fact that her father is a legitimate, long time well known NASA scientists, it gets righteously so. It Gets people thinking. But here is. Here is her, I guess, shortly before she died. Let's just get a little. Little Amy just to hear kind of what she was talking about.

[B]

Independently discovered. Four other times. He said, it has been. He said, it has been suppressed every single fucking time.

[A]

Time.

[B]

And he said, I don't think they're going to suppress it this time.

[A]

Talking about this.

[B]

He said, I think you're in the clear. He. He said, they obviously know about you because I've had multiple, both protective and threatening interactions with various agency affiliations, whatever. He was like, if. If you haven't had a US Government agent come to you and say, stop, Shut the up. Stop. Shut the up. Up. If that hasn't happened, they're going to let you do it. They're waiting. They're like, there. There are SSP that are twiddling their thumbs like, is Amy not going to publish soon? G. We've been influencing this forever. Doesn't she know we want her to publish? Jesus. Like, there's multiple people doing that right now. And on the other side of the fence, there's multiple parties looking at each other like, didn't we tell this three years ago that we kill people for this? Is she not listening? What is she doing? She's still doing it. What? We told her we were gonna kill her three years ago. So I have these two, like, I have these two different scenarios floating constantly in my life where I have people being like, do it, do it, do it. You're the one. Do it. And then I have multiple people. People being like, they're gonna kill you. Don't do it. They're gonna kill you.

[A]

Okay. Dee, if you had something on this, too. Yeah, I saw something the other day. I wasn't sure if you saw this too, that there was reports that she had, like, quit pain medication cold turkey.

[B]

Her mom said that? Yeah, her mom said she was experiencing pain. I don't know. Again, I'm not an expert, but looking at that video, she. She's maybe drunk. Maybe something is in her system there. Something is not, I'm willing to say. I mean, it's the mannerisms, too. The. The itching, the nose constantly.

[A]

The.

[B]

You know, the ha. It's. She's constantly moving. She's slurring a little bit. There's a few words that she slurred. Her eyes look very, very big. Yeah, there's something off about that. So, yeah, maybe that was when she was on some kind of pain medication.

[A]

And it's like, why?

[B]

What?

[A]

So this was Jeremy Reese's show alien scientists online. To be clear, you know, I, I see him at the top there, so I assume that's what it was. Again, doesn't mean it totally rules it out. But why is someone who also might be on something going and if they're allegedly this close to the world's most famous, deepest, darkest secret, openly talking about it on a Zoom YouTube channel, you know what I mean? Like, like, yeah, some red flags are flying with that. And I, I also do have to say, and this will, if this reveals some bias, it's only fair that I say this. I, I've just seen some with this space when you start getting to the UFOs and the people who come out and talk about them. I have seen some horrible and stuff get proven later that like, okay, because I, I totally believe aliens exist. I totally believe be believe we're not alone. But it's like, what are they coming out and telling us? I'm not even saying they haven't been here, but why are they openly volunteering all this stuff? And then I've seen behind the scenes some stories that were brought blow up meaning like, yeah, proven totally false that then other stories that I thought had decent evidence which might still, I don't know. But it leads me to question it because like I know that the same guys who brought those stories are the ones who brought this one.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I do feel like if you are saying out loud they're gonna kill me if I do this, they're gonna kill me. I don't think necessarily the people that have information to be killed over potentially are going to do that, are going to behave that way.

[A]

Edward Snowden never did that.

[B]

That is, that is my opinion. Yeah. So I just feel like this, it's not connected. And I, I, I do, I believe at this moment that she did take her own life tragically.

[A]

But, and the thing that sucks for the parents is because the father strictly had that title and worked at NASA, everyone's gonna be like, well, that's what he's forced to say. Or that he's a part of the COVID 100%. Listen.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Can't say 0% chance, but, but you know, I think you got to be careful making that leap, especially when you have other evidence in front of you where you're like, clearly, she, she was loosening her deck a little bit. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes, 100%.

[A]

And like, listen, she went to, she had some serious degrees and stuff like that. Like, this was not a dumb girl. No. But she, she Definitely had some. Some at least reported history of delusions. Does that mean for a fact she's lying about everything? No, but you should be very skeptical, especially considering the fact it took the Daily Mail so long to go back and find her and then say she's the 11th. But really she was the first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and you found out she didn't have government contracts. Because that's what we thought she did.

[B]

When. From where, though?

[A]

When we went. Oh, we went on air because this had just happened. Happened. We were.

[B]

And.

[A]

And that's. We're. That's why we say pure spec with some things, because, like, we're trying to be careful with where the facts line up or where something's going to change because we find out something new. But when we talked about her for a few minutes, that was it. You know, her location, where she was and the company that she worked for, you know, we thought therefore was contracting with the government.

[B]

I have found no evidence of that. I mean, but. So. But that doesn't. I. I mean, I guess there could be a chance, but I have found zero. Yeah. Zero.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so now back to MIT's out of the way. Novartis is out of the way. Eskridge is out of the way for now. The other three who weren't scientists are out of the way. We talked about Grilmare Grill or Grilmar. He was working on a Caltech guy who had worked with jpl, working on finding liquid on foreign exoplanets out in the galaxy. Pretty important stuff. His wife says nothing to see here really quickly because you had mentioned you had something that I didn't on the other two guys where there was no listed cause of death. One of the people I was thinking of in the obituary, I forget his name. In the obituary, it mentioned give donations to Alcoholics Anonymous. The other one where it claimed there was no cause of death. Perhaps you're going to correct me on that. He was also 61. He wasn't 30.

[B]

Right.

[A]

People die, right? 61. They get cancer.

[B]

You're talking about two different people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, but can we go through these two guys?

[B]

Yes. So first we can talk about Michael David Hicks, who you had mentioned in his obituary. It did read, quote, donation and Michael's memory can be made to al.anon.org that was in his obituary. Michael David Hicks was a planetary scientist affiliated with JPL and NASA. He contributed to asteroid research, just work, I guess, related to planetary defense missions. He died in 2023. And his cause of death is actually available Publicly on the Los Angeles Medical Examiner's website. And so I am looking at it right now, actually. Let me send you if you want to see.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

My. I put this in my most recent story from the other day. I'll send it to you deep. Okay, so his cause of death is arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease. That's cause. A cause. D. I'm sorry, Other significant conditions or morbid obesity. And the one thing that I guess a conspiracy theorist could take note of on this is the body status. Not brought in. The medical examiner's office never saw the body, but that's completely common. If someone has a heart attack and first responders, you know, show up and determine what happened, they don't necessarily need to send the body to the Emmy's office. They won't accept it.

[A]

And also, both of those things. What was the first. What was the official name of the heart condition?

[B]

Arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease.

[A]

Okay, so heart problems and obesity are two things that could be. I'm not saying they are, but they are. Are also related sometimes to alcoholism, of course, because you're not exactly active in that case. Not necessarily everyone, but sometimes that is the case. So.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Would make sense. And again, there's. This is where you have to look at the law of numbers a little bit. There's tens of thousands of people, very smart people, working on things like this. Some of them are obese. Some of them have alcohol problems. And you know what? At some point, they all do die. We all die. You know, and again, he was, what, 58?

[B]

He was 59.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, he's not 30.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, he's younger. There's some issues there. And, you know, I understand why people are asking questions, but I tend to agree with you. That feels pretty natural to me.

[B]

It does, it does. I mean, again, without digging too much further, personally, I did not feel the need to contact his family about that. You know, And I guess as I continue to work on this story, I probably should just. So I can say that I checked all the boxes. Right. But in the immediate as I'm digging that, I just sort of pushed to the side. I said, okay, I can sort of. For now anyway, until I get a little more information, I can, you know, table that and move on to the next one.

[A]

Now, Maywald was also working at JPL. He's the one that died at 61, where they claim there's no cause of death listed. And he. His work also, at some point, involved exoplanets and trying to determine if there was scientifically habitable worlds there, which would include trying to find liquids on these planets. Which is very similar to Carl Grillmare's research.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

So what. What am I missing there?

[B]

So with Frank, um, what I will say about that is that he. Reportedly, he was German. Reportedly he died in Los Angeles. That is what his obituary says. However, he is not listed on the medical examiner's website. So I will say that he is not listed anywhere. Um, it could be because maybe he. His. His name is. You know, I've tried a bunch of different names. Names. Francis. I've tried. You know, I've been. I looked up, like, the German version of Frank to see if there was one. I haven't really found anything. I have not reached out to his wife yet. I have her contact information. But with Frank, everything that's listed on his obituary and the guest book and, you know, from. From what I've seen, they all say that Frank was just this larger than life guy. Always smiling, always. Always cracking jokes, always hugging people. And the notes and photos of him, and there's a lot like this man looked like he had a lot of friends and a lot of fun too, by the way. It's just. It's. It's joy, it's laughter, it's love. And I'm also not an idiot. I know that anyone could paint that picture. But to have that many people in his life paint the picture of happiness and love and joy. And they're talking about his work. They're saying how brilliant he was, how. You know what I mean? And. And somebody. There's. There was messages about how he was a manager and. And he trained this person and that. I just. I didn't necessarily see anything again, that would cause me to really want to dig further when there are other cases that seem to be a little more suspicious. Like I said, the one thing I did notice is that he's not. He's not in the database.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So that. That is something to look into. That go. Absolutely. Definitely.

[A]

You can get an update on that if. If you track it all the way down.

[B]

Yes, for sure. Yes.

[A]

Okay. Now, at the top of the pyramid, though, are the ones we started this with, that we touched on just some of the weird. But we can get deeper into now, which is Monica and then.

[B]

And General Mc.

[A]

General. So with Monica, it's so sinister to. To. With the disappearance story where she's. I believe she's walking with one friend. They're both experienced hikers, which, as we said the other day, moral of the Story. Don't go. Go hiking, people don't. Don't go for a long walk alone with nothing like, just stay at home. Maybe this doesn't happen. But she's hiking, and the friend looks back, at one point, she's 30ft behind. She smiles and waves, and the next time he looks back, she's gone. And as you said, they've searched across all these acreage. They found nothing. But what was. What was the nature specifically of her work and when it overlapped vis a vis jpl and you named another company earlier with the general.

[B]

Yeah. Let me go back, if you don't mind, please. So I've spoken to several sources in Monica's life, actually, and I got a little more information about that hike. So apparently the terrain that they were on is very steep, and even the most experienced hiker probably shouldn't jog or run. And for whatever reason, Monica decided to run. The male companion that she was with, I believe, encouraged her to run. I am told by a source that this male companion had a habit of sort of pushing the limit, maybe putting people in danger too much. They all knew each other, that the hikers and many of the searchers from a yoga group, because Monica was training to be a yoga instructor. The practice of yoga that she was practicing, it incorporated Vedic science and astrology. So it was in her. Her wheelhouse. And this one source said, you know, I didn't really know much about her prior work. I just knew she was a scientist. The crazy part is that the male hiker who last saw her, and again, they should have never been running, but they were. He gave the last known coordinates. He also gave the last known coordinates to where they found her hat. And I guess she had, like, a visor on, and her scent seemed to stop at the hat, which is also very weird. But her last known coordinates were actually much closer to the road or the highway than I think a lot of people initially thought. Yeah. So. And again, I'm learning this because I'm in a Facebook group, and I'm just, like, you know, messaging all these people I'm trying to call them, and. And some of them are, again, receptive, and they'll tell me certain things. But let me just put it this way. I know who the last person she was with. I. I know who that is. I've chosen at this point, obviously, not to put his name out there. You don't want the Internet turning on them. And I. I don't know enough. But this person, if he wasn't already showing, should have Been grilled by police.

[A]

Was she married?

[B]

Not, not that I know of. I, another source had told me that they had a younger family member who just looked up to Monica like a motherly figure. Like she was just so incredibly sweet to everybody.

[A]

Did she have any kids? Was she divorced?

[B]

Not that I, I've seen. And, and again it's weird because some of the people that I talked to, it's like they knew her, but they, they didn't almost. They knew her through yoga. So it's this, it's this community. So going back to, I guess you know, what she had worked on and how she overlapped with General McCaslin. And you know, I learned this based on her, her LinkedIn page. So she goes by Monica Jacinto, if you want to just pull that up, up. But basically one of the companies and there's only two companies listed. It's like it's. God, sorry, Rocket. Yeah, it's Aerojet Rocketdyne. Yep, that's her. And then. Yeah.

[A]

And then fellow materials science engineering at Aerojet Rocketdyne.

[B]

Yeah. So now General McCaslin when he was at, let me see, when he was at the Air Force Research Lab at Wright PATTERSON, that was 2011. May 2011 to July of 2013. And so Monica, she was at Pratt and Whitney during that time. She was there until 2012. So that is where I believe there was a government contract.

[A]

Well, I also saw there was overlap in the early 2000s between the two of them with JPL, I believe. Believe.

[B]

Okay, so I could have been two places. I did not see that. This is. Yeah, this is what I was looking at. And so obviously Pratt and Whitney is a major aerospace company that designs and builds aircraft engines specifically for military jets and commercial airplanes. And she was also said to be a total genius. You know, she co patented this burn resistant metal alloy and she was just working on a lot of, of stuff. And I just think that her disappearance is worth talking about because like General McCaslin, she appeared to vanish into thin air. And that's what I don't get. You know, this person's last known coordinates. And I have looked at the, I mean like I said it. Hundreds of thousands of acres. But I've studied this area even though it'd be better if I was there. I, I've spoken to people that have hiked this. They have all said we should have been able to find her. It shouldn't be that difficult. Months and months and months, dude. Like months.

[A]

All right, so two questions. One, have there been other reported? Like Rape, kidnappings and stuff like this on these trails. And then two. What kind of animals are we dealing with outside?

[B]

Yeah, so the. That's. It's interesting. I. There's not, there's not a lot of rapes or kidnappings, I guess. But there are like coyotes for example,

[A]

for one, for one or two coyotes to get her without a scent totally away with no blood trail. Sounds crazy.

[B]

I was just about to say you. They. They don't. Sorry. An animal is not going to eat her entire body.

[A]

There is going to be scream.

[B]

Exactly. Well, so there was another document floating around Twitter. Okay. And I don't know the origin of this document. I had just seen it and it. So I don't know. I don't know. Again, you know how valid this is. But there was a report that she disappeared or she was last seen around 9:10am around 2:30pm per this document. Again, I don't. I don't know. Other hikers heard screams at 2:30, but five hours later. But again, it's like. Well then why, why is it that in all the articles that you see initially when, you know, when the police are putting this out there, why, why didn't we know about that? Why didn't we hear that? It just seems strange, so.

[A]

It's very strange.

[B]

Yeah. And so I don't know. I'll take that with a grain of salt. I just don't. I don't know if I can sit here and say, oh, this was a tragic, unfortunate hiking accident or incident when we haven't found it. Her.

[A]

She disappeared June 2025, is that right?

[B]

June 22, I believe.

[A]

June 22, yes. All right, this is really reaching. I'm just throwing it out there because it's interesting. She disappears shortly after they bomb foro.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

McCaslin disappears hours before they invade Iran again. Is there anything there? I don't see any evidence for that.

[B]

But I was gonna say, I mean, look, by all accounts, Monica was retired per her friends. Now if she was working on something classified, obviously her friends would not know.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But I would think that you wouldn't have the time to be participating in a yoga group. Right? I don't know. And, and training to be a yoga.

[A]

If you're retired and you're pulled into something classified to do something, part of it is you gotta. You can't tell anyone. And so you gotta have a cover which involves living your life.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not gonna pull you in the lab 247 because people are gonna be like, where the. Is Monica?

[B]

Yeah. Okay, that's totally fair. She just did seem to have a lot of time with these friends.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

In this yoga group, they all describe, you know, hanging out a lot, being close like that. But again, they just knew her as this retired scientist, dentist, and she had

[A]

never been married, never had kids, so

[B]

I, I could not find anything about that. I. I don't. I don't know.

[A]

She's calling herself a different name on LinkedIn. That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, again, she, you know, I, I couldn't necessarily find anything, but I didn't, I didn't ask. I didn't ask the, the sources this. When I was discussing this with them, I was mainly focused on her disappearance.

[A]

What did the other hiker say about. So when she disappeared and he realized she was no longer behind on him, what did he do? How soon before he called the cops?

[B]

I mean, I think it was. He kind of was confused. You know, he was looking himself for maybe an hour. I'm not certain about that timeline, but I do know that. And, and I'm just saying, quote, her family. That's her family. A source told me her family was kind of like, why, why do you always let her go behind you? Like. And, and the word always was used like, like maybe this was a thing, you know, like, why didn't you. Why didn't you? I don't know.

[A]

I. I said they were very close to the highway.

[B]

No, where she was. Yeah, closer. Not very close, but closer than close.

[A]

We talking.

[B]

I'd have to get the, the coordinates. I actually. Within a mile, I can get the last coordinate minutes. I actually put them. You know what, I put them up on Twitter this morning, actually. I put.

[A]

I can't tell how far away we are there. Deep. Like what? Yeah, and could be fucking 30 miles right there.

[B]

So there it is. It's hiker last seen and then her hat found. So it's last seen at 34.341756. I don't know.

[A]

He's pulling it up.

[B]

Okay. I'm like, if you want to just put the court. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Can you do that on Google? I've never done that on Google Maps.

[B]

Okay, it's ready at 34 dot at 34. Well.

[A]

Oh, altitude. So it would be 0. 34.

[B]

Yep. Dot 34, 1756. And then comma dash 117954. Oh, sorry. 954729.

[A]

You have 034 in there twice.

[B]

Yeah, well, it is, it is. Hold on. It is.

[A]

That's a range.

[B]

Well, it Was. Yeah, but it is at. It's 34.34. So that was.

[A]

It's not 0.34. It's 34.34.

[B]

Okay. 34.34. 1756. Yeah,

[A]

I never done that before.

[B]

I. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. It'd be interesting to see how accessible it would be for someone to be able to get in there.

[B]

It's hard. It's hard, hard to. It's hard to tell on. Right. On some of these maps. Oh, yeah. Maybe you could do it that way. But I actually. It's funny because I am so bad with this. I actually sent the coordinates to a geoprofiler, so he's going to get back to me on that. Yeah. So, you know, we'll see. Like I said, I. I don't know everything, but hopefully I can find the people that do know a lot more than me. But, yeah, I do know that they had said, yeah, her family was kind of like, what the hell to this guy.

[A]

And we don't know if the cops have grilled him. You got to assume they have.

[B]

I'm assuming they have because. Right. Like, it's. Yeah, it's. It's kind of like that's. That's their job to talk to the last person that.

[A]

Who found the hat. Him or the cops.

[B]

I don't know who found the hat. That is. That is unclear. I was actually looking through the Facebook group to see if I could, you know.

[A]

Is he married?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, I. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So walk into the woods. One walks out.

[B]

Oh, there was a female companion as well, But I cannot get information as to where this female companion was at the time. There's two of them, so.

[A]

That's what I thought.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, there was talking like it was only two.

[B]

No. Yeah, it's. It's weird because I don't know enough about where. I'm kind of like, well, where the hell was. Was this girl again? Work in progress. You know, still trying to get these answers because for me, it's like I'm in the middle here of like, trying to figure out from an investigation standpoint, like location wise, geography, and then it's like you've got their, their work backgrounds as well. You know, you've got to separate them first and then sort of put everything together, I guess, for sure. Yeah.

[A]

Now this is June 2025.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

McCaslin, who we demonstrated at least one overlap with, perhaps two over the years. He disappears February 27, 2026, on a Friday. Went out for A hike in the morning or with just the shot or just the pistol like we said, which his wife didn't even know he took at the time. And that's all we got. Now his, his background, we alluded to it earlier that it's a who's who and what's what, and you've mentioned a few places he's been, but can you just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Run through the highlights of that real quick so people understand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And before I ask that, did he have any demonstrated medical conditions or any dementia related things or stuff that could explain him wandering away?

[B]

His wife said no dementia, just the, the mental fog or the brain fog, which was frustrating for him, but not a huge deal. I guess he was somewhat at risk, I guess when they, they put out the silver alert for him. And also multiple people, it's like, here, I'll show it to. It's like when someone older goes missing. Like there was one for Nancy Guthrie and. Yeah. But multiple people have mentioned to me that live in the Albuquerque area that they didn't get the social alert right away, which is very rare. So I don't know why, I don't know. You know, I, I'm not, not sure why that would be, but it was brought to my attention. Interesting. Yeah. Another thing I just want to add is that on February 19, that is when Trump put on Truth Social, that he would be releasing all of the UAP files.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So, you know. Yeah, there it is. And I think it says, yeah, due to his medical issues. I don't know, his wife, you know, she didn't really allude to any type of medical issue, which is so strange. Yeah, that was very, very weird. But yeah. So General McCaslin, he was a commander at the Air Force Research Lab, stationed at Wright Patterson. He was the Director of Special programs at the U.S. department of Defense. He worked at the Air Force Base where he worked in space, Space acquisition programming. He was, he was at the one

[A]

in la, too, I think, for a while too.

[B]

He was El Segund. Yeah. California. And then he worked at the Air Force Research lab in New Mexico as well. It was, yeah. In the early 2000s, he was the director of Operations in Colorado at an Air Force base. And he MIT educated. Harvard. Mit.

[A]

He was Air Force baseball, Force Academy before that.

[B]

Yep. And you know, his wife, you know, she was dispelling a lot of the, the rumors. She did this in March, basically. And I go back, we talked about this earlier where I think that maybe she respectfully was, was dispelling before she possibly knew all of the facts and all of the details. And, and I. I said this the other day, like, what. What do you tell your spouse about work when you are working in, you know, a sector like this? She also said, quote, it is true that when Neil was in the Air Force, he had access to some highly classified programs and information. He retired from the air force almost 13 years ago and has had only very commonly held clearances since. It seems quite unlikely that he was taken to. To extract very dated secrets from him. Hone in on the. It seems quite unlikely. She doesn't actually know. She's just saying, like, I don't know, but it seems unlikely. But, like, what. What do we actually know? She also brought up the fact that Neil, he has a brief association with the UFO community through Tom DeLonge. And Tom DeLonge was a former Blink 182 frontman, founder of the organization to the Stars. But then if you want to tie Hillary Clinton into this, there. Yeah, there. There were emails. Yep. When his. When his computer was. Was hacked. Whatever the Russians hacked. Yeah, his. His stuff. There was emails about General McCaslin and Tom DeLonge. And so she said that things sort of died down after that. But she said. And again, she could just be saying this. She says they were only talking and working together about sort of a fictional media project that. That Tom was working on. Yeah, she said that. She said. What was it exactly? She said, oh, yeah, Tom's fiction, book and media activities. That was her. Her exact words. So she said this connection is not a reason for someone to abduct Neil. He doesn't have any special knowledge about the extraterrestrial bodies and debris from the Roswell crash stored at Wright Patterson. Well, if he did, is he gonna tell you? Like, is he gonna tell you?

[A]

That's the other thing. Probably not. But his wife's also like a serious scientist, too.

[B]

Yeah. Right. But it doesn't matter. Like, she didn't work next to him. And so that's when she sort of said, you know, maybe the best hypothesis is the aliens beamed him up to the Mothership. And that's not helpful. No. And it's interesting, you know, you go back to, like, you never. You never want to. Don't victimize victims. But you're just like, man, you. I don't know her as a person, but it is interesting that she's cracking jokes. Right. That just might be her personality. But your husband's missing. It's seems like a. I don't know. I don't know people.

[A]

What do they say people grieve differently?

[B]

Yes, that's exactly.

[A]

That is true. But like, like, if you're doing Erica Kirk pyrotechnics for seven months afterwards and never around your kid and seemingly excited to take over at some point, people can be like, all right, come on.

[B]

I mean, yeah, I, I get it. I totally get it. And, and that's what I say. Like, I'm not trying to, Like, I'm just. I think it's interesting. She made.

[A]

It is interesting.

[B]

Interesting and, and interesting that you are addressing these things and you are sort of, you know, trying to stick a pin in them. Her 911 call I found to be very interesting. Well, because she said the words, you know, I don't. I have to. I, I had it written down somewhere. But she said, and I'm paraphrasing, it would indicate possibly that he did not want to be found based on the fact that he changed clothes, he left what he would normally take back at home. You know, and I go back to saying, like, researching this area, if you know the area very well, it would be very easy to slip away and not be found. And I continue to get just amazed sometimes at how people can just leave, walk away, run away. And, you know, they don't seem to be. And I'm not talking about General McCaslin, but other people, right. They don't seem to be. Be highly intelligent. They don't seem, you know, but they, they evade law enforcement. They, they seem to hide from. From the world, from the public view. I mean, what was that football coach that had child. Do you remember that out of. I'm just shocked. He seemed like a dumbass. And we still haven't found him, Travis.

[A]

Oh, I remember this.

[B]

Yeah, what is it?

[A]

This was a few months ago. They still haven't found that guy.

[B]

Not that I know. You know, I'm, I should check. I'm checking right now. Yeah, the high school football coach. No, they haven't found this dude. Missing Virginia high school football coach Travis Turner, that's his name. And that's, that's what I'm saying. Like, what? We still have not found this guy. He seems like a regular dumbass to me. And it's like, what, why? He walked off again with a gun. He could be dead somewhere. Or. But, but also, if he's dead somewhere,

[A]

well, maybe NAMBLA has a fucking underground railroad road and they just get all these scumbags out, which is not what we're talking about with.

[B]

No, that's. But that's what I'M saying where it's like how it's, it's, it's mind blowing to me. But with McCaslin, he, he's intelligent enough. I do feel like where if he doesn't want to be found, he's not going to be found, but he is.

[A]

There is no doubt when it comes to potential military secret related alien folklore and UFO folklore, if you will, he is a form of a forest gump when you look at his career. Yes, if there's a there there, and there's certainly some sort of there there, whether or not it's what they tell us is a totally separate question. But like if there's a there there, he is on a short list of candidates of people who would have multiple levels of intelligence related to those things. Now, being on the to the Stars academy is also sketchy because like that is just filled with intel guys like Jim Semivan and stuff like that, that who sometimes come out and make these huge claims and it's like, all right, what are they really? My thought is, what are they really distracting us from? You know, but yeah, for him to so systematically walk out like that, change clothes, take a handgun, leave everything else behind, don't put on the Apple watch, don't tell your wife about it, leave. And there's no trace. They find the Air Force sweatshirt. How far away?

[B]

A mile and a half.

[A]

A mile and a half away. So he shed. That was the sweatshirt he wore out? He shed that or it was forcibly taken off him? I don't know.

[B]

We don't know if it was his.

[A]

We don't. Oh no, we don't even know if he was wearing that.

[B]

But that's. No, they found it. And that's what I'm saying. Like nobody could identify that. No. Yeah, it's weird. And you know something else? Eric Burleson has been coming out and saying. I, I reached out to General McCaslin twice and then he just disappeared. And I reached out to his office, you know, about this, trying to get information. I was unimpressed. I mean, I was thankful that I got a response, but I was a little frustrated by the fact that he seems to say so much more on network news. And I couldn't seem to get anything out of him except I don't want to speculate on anything out of respect for his family, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, you're on the news talking about how you guys reached out to him. So when I saw this, I reached back out to his office and I was like, I don't understand, like why did I to, you know, I, I can't watch every report and I can't watch every podcast to get information, although I'm trying to. But if I email you directly, like maybe you could include certain things like. Right. And say that. And so I just said, I heard him say this. Can you let me know why? And, and I know the why, because he wanted information. I mean the whole UAP disclosure conversation came up, I think, think, you know, with the House Oversight Committee back in September of 2025. That's what the letter said when they were asking for all the videos, the 46 videos. So it was something relating to that, I believe. And I just said like, can you give me a timeline here? Like, like, you know, why, you know, you wanted to find out more info. And, and his office just said the investigate. Oh, okay. They said the investigation began in the spring of 2025. And I think the big thing here is he said our office has reached out to dozens of individuals. Okay, well you're not saying that. You're only saying you reached out to McCaslin. So you reached out to dozens of individuals who I'm assuming are still with us. So stop doing shit for clicks. It's annoying me.

[A]

Like McCaslin have retired in 2013 from government. Government sometime in there.

[B]

So.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

What's. It's funny because his wife said, yeah, he retired 13 years ago. His LinkedIn says. Yeah, well it's.

[A]

He's a boarded director somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So he's doing things right?

[B]

He's a consultant.

[A]

Yes, he's a consultant at another company. So he's still, that's what I'm saying. He's still places where he's very intellectually engaged on the things that are part of his expertise that he spent all his time in the government about. And he definitely holds, you know, access to having seen highly, highly classified things throughout his career from someone who is also just not a traditional military guy. This is a literal like rocket scientist kind of trained, specialty trained dude.

[B]

I mean his credentials are out of this world.

[A]

Have you ever had any interest in like looking into UFOs and what we know or what we don't?

[B]

Yeah, I've been, I've been all into that and I, I will say that I, Me too. I have spoken to some individuals that. Dr. Bill Byrne, I don't know if you've heard of him. I do know that he produced the show UFO Hunters on, on the History Channel. He co wrote the book the day after Roswell and he's a bit older, and doing a. Doing a video interview with him was interesting because he had, like, the. His phone, like, up his nose, so it didn't look great.

[A]

You know, I'm here, but I'm not a cat.

[B]

Yeah, no. And so it was that paired with some of the stuff that he was saying that was so out of this world, where he was like, no, I've spoken to emissaries, I've spoken to aliens, and they told me this, and I'm just like, all right.

[A]

He went all the way there.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you gotta. And I'm. I'm really glad that I'm talking to people like that, but I. I'm trying to go more middle ground because I do believe, like you said, you know, we're not alone. I think it would be naive to think that we are the only species right. On this planet. I. I just don't think that. Or not. I shouldn't say on this planet. In. How do I say it?

[A]

I know what you mean. In the galaxy. In the universe.

[B]

Yes, in the universe. Thank you. Yeah. I don't think that there's little green men. I don't think that we're talking about Independence Day when they're in, like, glass. Like, I don't think that. But until it happens, it. This, I will say, has taken over my life to the point that, like, I was in church on Sunday and I'm just, like, zoning out a little bit. No. And, like, flipping through the Bible, and I think it was, like, Ezekiel 1, chapter 4. Wild. Where. I mean, you'd have to pull this up to really.

[A]

Ezekiel 1, chapter 4, I think.

[B]

Yeah. You'd have to really pull this up. Up where Ezekiel is. Is warned by four creatures that are.

[A]

We got to make sure this ain't a Pulp Fiction quote.

[B]

No, no, no. He is. He is warned about the Israelites. He, as something beams down, right? Beams down. Four creatures with, like, multiple faces. They also talk about the wheels on this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, it is. I literally was freaking out. I showed my husband. I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

I'm like, oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'm like, look, look, look, look. And he was like, you're insane. Like, you are. You are. Really. Let's see.

[A]

Ezekiel 1, four key details. A windstorm from the north. Ezekiel witnesses a massive divine.

[B]

He's.

[A]

Define the windstorm. Let's get it. Because it's like, in my 30th year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day, while I was among the exiles by the Kibar River. The heavens were open and I saw visions of God. God. On the 5th of the month. It was the 5th year of the exile of King whatever the his name is. The word of the Lord came to Ezekiel, the priest, the son of Boozy, by the K? Bar river in the land of the Babylonians. There the hand of the Lord was on him. I looked and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north. An immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal. And in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance, their form was human. But each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight, their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. Under the wings. On their four sides, they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings. And the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead. They did not turn as they move. Their faces look like this. Each of the four had the face of a human being. And on the right side of each face, face of a lion. And on the left, the face of an ox. Each also had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward. Each wing touches that of the creep, touching that of the creature on either side. And each had two other wings covering its body. Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go without turning as they went. The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures. It was was bright and lightning flashed out of it. The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning. Where should I skip to?

[B]

You should go down to when the living creatures moved the wheels besides and. Or you can go above. Actually, the rims were high. I mean, that's.

[A]

As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground. Besides each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels. They sparkled like topaz. And all four looked alike alike. Each appeared to be bat made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they move, they would go in and out four directions the creatures face. The wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome. And all four rims were full of eyes all around. When the living creatures move, the wheels beside them moved. And when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go. And the wheels would rise along with them them because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When the creatures move, they also move. When the creatures stood still, they also stood still. And when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them because the spirit, living creatures was in the wheels. Maybe it's a paraplegic angel. I don't know. It might be in a wheelchair.

[B]

It's possible. It's.

[A]

They had a face of an eagle and an ox.

[B]

I'm sorry, at that time, that. To me, those are aliens. Come on. Come on. And. And we are talking about a UFO with the wheel. Come on.

[A]

In my head, I was reading that in Samuel L. Jackson's voice and the wheels were turning.

[B]

Yeah. No, but I mean, how wild is that? It's kind of wild.

[A]

Pretty nuts. It's pretty nuts.

[B]

And I'm trying not to be. I'm trying not to be nuts. I'm trying not to be nuts, but. Yeah.

[A]

Eight days after he says they're gonna release the UFOs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

McCaslin goes away.

[B]

Yeah. Did something and go off in his head where he's like, oh, no. Oh, no. Or. Or did.

[A]

He's gotta go.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Or it could be the, the question here is, are there foreign operations? Because guys like that would certainly be sought after by any country, including allies. You know, you could be in the UK and be like, oh, that, that nuclear Air Force guy over there. We can get some good info out of that chap.

[B]

Yeah, I. I guess I'm wondering. And it's, it's, you know, it'll take a lot more research, but how many guys out there are like, General McCaslin, are there a lot? Are there? Like I said, if Eric Burleson's office is saying we reached out to dozens of people. Okay.

[A]

But not with his full kind of resume.

[B]

There's not a lot you would think, but I don't. I don't actually know. I haven't seen anyone like that, that.

[A]

Running all these bases. It's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It can't be a lot because he ran some of the most serious places. And it's not one or two. He ran like five of them or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

[A]

We're talking long career military man, like full true and blue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Part of the team. And then afterwards, when he leaves, he's working with the guys who are very much still on the team. Like the Jim. Semivans of the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's weird. It's very weird.

[B]

It's Weird. I'm trying to be level headed.

[A]

You're doing a great job.

[B]

I'm trying. It's. Yeah. And, and like I said, I wish I could spend all day on this. I, I actually really wish I could, but I do cover a lot of stuff, so it gets taxing. Yeah, it does get taxing, but it's an important story, I think.

[A]

Well, we're gonna keep looking at it along with the other important stories that we're not putting away. That's what we do in here. We do our best with that. But as if some crazy happens or you get some updates, we're going to need you to. You got come by and give them.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

This has been great though. Your breakdown is great. I really appreciate how objective you are on everything and like trying to get to the facts. And I think it does help clear up what we suspected and what, what I think a lot of people out there suspected, which is that some of this is a headline, other parts of it are like, oh, there could be something there, but we got to stay with the facts as we know them and then ask questions on many of the open ended parts of some of these cases, which there definitely are.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I. Yeah, there, there's something weird with let's say two of them for sure, I think. Is it connected to the government? To a foreign government? I don't know at this point. I still don't.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

To be continued. All right, so Lauren, we'll put your links down below to your ex and your Instagram. Anything else you want, we'll link that as well. Everyone go follow Lauren. She's reporting on a million different big time cases. If it's interesting, it's probably on her pages, so go check it out. Thank you so much for breaking all this down today.

[B]

Thank you for having me. This was fun.

[A]

Of course. All right, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me.

[B]

Me.

[A]

Peace. What's up guys? Thanks so much for watching the video. If you have not subscribed, please hit that subscribe button before you leave. As well as leaving a like on the video. It's a huge, huge help. You can join my Patreon via the link in the description and you can also join my clipping community via the Discord link down below. See you for the next episode.