#416 - “DARK Funding!” - Baron Trump Theory, Clavicular, Peter Thiel & THE BALLROOM | Jack Mac

Summary

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Julian Dorey Podcast #416 — “DARK Funding!” | Baron Trump Theory, Clavicular, Peter Thiel & THE BALLROOM | Guest: Jack Mac

Date: May 1, 2026

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Overview

In this wide-ranging, speculative, and characteristically freewheeling episode, Julian Dorey sits down with content creator and Barstool Sports personality Jack Mac to discuss the changing landscape of digital culture, influencer marketing, current-day political conspiracy theories, the persistent influence of AI, and the intersecting worlds of new media and power. Together, they examine viral phenomena like the looksmaxxing subculture, the story behind massively-followed figures such as Clavicular, and dive deep into theories—ranging from secret White House ballrooms to Peter Thiel's influence—while contemplating broader questions of authenticity, ambition, and the future of content.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pop Culture as Society’s Pulse & Barstool’s Influence

• The Power of Pop Culture Content
  • Jack reflects on how Barstool’s ethos is to cover everything people talk about “on a barstool”—whether trivial celebrity drama or breaking political events.

    “People talk about it. They may not admit to it… but people watch.” (Jack, 02:13)

  • Influencer marketing disproportionately targets women because of their purchasing power, shaping what content outlets pursue.
  • Alex Cooper (Call Her Daddy) is discussed as a “podcasting hall-of-famer.”

    “She’s been a top 10 podcaster since 2018. You know how insane that is?” (Jack, 04:12)

• Early Podcast Growth Stories
  • Reminiscence about the low-fi origins of Call Her Daddy, its impact on Barstool, and how female-driven content opened new markets.

Notable Moment:
Jack’s firsthand account as a Barstool intern witnessing Call Her Daddy’s breakout (05:46).

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2. Platform Dynamics: Facebook’s Enduring Power & Algorithm Anxiety

• Social Media Shifts
  • Facebook remains massive, especially among international and older demographics, despite its “uncool” rep among younger creators.

    “Facebook… is still the number one platform.” (Jack, 08:27)

  • Instagram, Threads, and Facebook cross-posting are strategic for maximizing reach, but creators feel stretched thin.
• Pacing Content Business Growth
  • Jack and Julian commiserate over the pressures of scaling—a few-person team vs. massive podcast operations.

    “It’s such a long game. You could be doing this for 20, 30, 40 years.” (Jack, 11:32)

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3. The Content Creator’s Mental Struggle: Presence, Catastrophizing, and Imposter Syndrome

• Managing Anxiety
  • Jack admits to spiraling into “catastrophizing” when projects fail or algorithms shift, sharing advice to prioritize the present and not obsess over remote “catastrophes.”

    “You get into this zone… ruminating on a .001% probability.” (Jack, 17:10)

  • Staying humble and accepting replaceability in the industry is simultaneously painful and grounding.

    “You’re tortured by the fact that… what if I wake up tomorrow and no one wants to listen? … That’s how replaceable you are.” (Julian, 17:48)

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4. The Rising Threat & Opportunity of Artificial Intelligence

• AI Copying Human Creators
  • Jack shares a cautionary tale from a Meta conference:

    “For the next two years, your goal should be to get this flyover [escape] effect… In two years, he feels AI will be able to… make 75 versions of you.” (Jack, 18:14)

  • The value of remaining “real” and building a recognizable personality that audiences will “seek out.”
  • Both marvel at AI-generated personalities and long-term risks.

Notable Quotes:

“People are going to start to not understand what’s real and what’s not. But if they know you’re real, they’ll seek you out.” (Jack, 19:04)

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5. AI Disinformation, Deepfakes, & Security

• Political and Geopolitical Paranoia
  • Speculations on state-level AI, deepfake content, and hidden tech capabilities (“the discombobulator”—Trump reference to secret US military tech).
  • Concerns about secret bunkers/ballrooms under the White House (“What’s going on with that ballroom, bro?” 28:15).
  • Wild detours into time-travel conspiracy (the Baron Trump novels and Nikola Tesla connections, 29:54–31:09).

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6. Disintegration of Political Trust and Conspiracy Acceptance

• The New Default to Skepticism and Paranoia
  • Julian and Jack reflect on how formerly “crazy” theories now get mainstream play:

    “There are some things people used to be called inherently crazy for saying that now are provably true.” (Julian, 49:16)

  • Social media saturation with both “real” and “fake” creators; even major political events are instantly doubted for authenticity (the Trump Hilton shooting this past weekend, 17:32, 49:03).
  • “The present thing is probably the thing… If I could have one skill, it’s that.” (Jack, 14:50)

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7. Polarization, Shifting Optics, & The Trumpian Era

• The Politics of Optics
  • Jack: “The Trump admin’s philosophy is: It doesn’t matter what the optics are. We win.” (36:38)
  • Debate over whether Trump’s unpredictability is calculated or chaotic; his administration compared to “reality TV.”
  • Recurring theme: every recent administration brings its own “unique” brand of dysfunction—“it’s just copy-paste with different actors.” (Jack, 36:38)

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8. Pandemic, Media, and the Collapse of Authority

• COVID Narratives and Media Failures
  • The initial shock, empty Times Square (41:11), Wall Street panic (43:04), the “Davey Day Trader” phenomenon, early skepticism from voices like Portnoy and Elon Musk.
  • Fauci’s rise and fall in public perception (46:53).

Notable Quotes:

“The vaccine part is crazy… it wasn’t like the polio vaccine. It wasn’t… How did we even know if it was safe and effective?” (Jack, 47:46)

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9. AI and Content Commoditization: Can Authenticity Survive?

• AI-Generated Content Markets
  • Speculation over AI’s capacity to supplant basic content creators while “real stories” and personalities retain value (80:16).
  • Concerns about gatekeeping and disclosure by major platforms (YouTube/Facebook) on what’s AI-generated, and the inadequacy of political regulation.
  • Julian: “Once people inherently know it’s not a human talking, they’re not going to get into it.” (80:16)
  • Jack: “What happens when it gets too good? … Can we rely on [Congress] to make the right calls on AI?” (80:26)

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10. Funding & Cultural Engineering: Clavicular, Looksmaxxing, and DARK Funding

• The Clavicular (Looksmaxxing) Phenomenon
  • Jack describes his interview with the controversial “looksmaxxer” Clavicular—a neurodivergent, meme-like livestreamer infamous for self-harmful beauty regimens.

    “If you IQ tested him, it would be very high.” (113:58)

  • The community is a small but intense pocket—encouraging physical obsession and self-alteration in impressionable young men.
  • The role of PR handlers, shadowy funding, and the question: Is this phenomenon organic, or astroturfed as a means of social demoralization?
  • Julian: “If I wanted to hack culture… I would convince an entire generation of men they have to… not reproduce and castrate themselves.” (112:14)
• The “Cookieverse” and Online Communities
  • “Cookie King,” another weird TikTok subculture, is cited as evidence of how online adolescent micro-celebrity can spiral into toxic trends.
  • Uncertainty about who funds/controls viral subcultures—speculative allusions to Peter Thiel, “Israeli mafia” ties, and new forms of influence brokering.

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11. Power, Purpose & the Nature of Drive

• Political Power vs. Entrepreneurial Ambition
  • Comparison between ambition in media (Dave Portnoy/Barstool) and in politics—why do some build, build, build after achieving all measures of outward success?
  • Jack: “I don't think it's an overall power desire dynamic… What do you do once you make all that money? I don't know. It kind of gets boring.” (71:04)
  • Political equivalents may be driven by ego, addiction to power, or even blackmail (“how big is it?” re: institutional blackmail and control, 73:18)
• Generational Wealth, Parenting & Privilege
  • Deep discussion on the risks/rewards of helping children with wealth—debating “trust fund” logic, drive, and the importance of building skills through earned adversity (154:18–159:41).

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12. Authenticity in Media and Relatability

• Authenticity as Enduring Value
  • Discussion on why audiences, over time, relate to and follow “people like us”—from Spider-Man and Michael Jordan to podcasters and politicians (140:15–143:48).
  • Analysis of how figures like Trump and Conor McGregor won over millions through “I am you” relatability, even if they ultimately lost touch with that essence after achieving great wealth or power (144:32–146:55).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If you can somehow get both [men and women audiences], you’re really in a great spot.” — Jack (03:08)
• “I spiral. I think, ‘Oh, this isn’t gonna work. That’s not gonna work.’ … I catastrophize.” — Jack (15:25)
• “The flyover effect thing was—people are going to start to not understand what’s real and what’s not. But if they know you’re real, they’ll seek you out.” — Jack (19:04)
• “The Trump admin’s philosophy: It doesn’t matter what the optics are. We win.” — Jack (36:38)
• “There are some things people used to be called inherently crazy for saying that now are provably true.” — Julian (49:16)
• “What happens when it gets too good? … Can we rely on [Congress] to make the right calls on AI?” — Jack (80:26)
• “If I wanted to hack culture to create that… I’d convince an entire generation of men that they have to… not reproduce and castrate themselves… just to keep up with the Joneses.” — Julian (112:14)
• “Tell yourself you slept well. Suddenly you feel like you did.” — Julian (87:29)
• “You have to have a weird, thick skin… But the person that can just continue on and not [let criticism eat them alive]—there’s a lot of people that just, the criticism eats them alive.” — Jack (131:30)
• “If your leg, if you got shot in the leg, you can’t delusional your way through it, but [with sleep]—who cares?” — Jack (86:54)
• “People relate to and follow ‘people like us.’” — Julian (142:43)
• “He took over the MMA world… knocked out Jose Aldo in 15 seconds with what he predicted…” — Jack (146:11)
• “It really is one video or one story and then you’re in it…” — Jack (164:29)

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Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | | :--- | :--- | | 00:01–07:30 | Barstool’s pop culture coverage, influencer dynamics, Call Her Daddy’s rise | | 08:00–13:30 | Social media platforms, Facebook vs. Instagram/TikTok, scaling content | | 13:30–18:00 | Content creator anxiety, presence, catastrophizing, imposter syndrome | | 18:00–21:20 | The AI “flyover effect”, authenticity vs. artificial replication | | 28:13–31:09 | The “ballroom” beneath the White House, Trump time-travel conspiracies | | 36:10–38:00 | Political optics: Trump admin vs. Biden’s, the philosophy of “we win” | | 41:10–48:13 | Pandemic psychology, empty cities, Fauci’s arc, media failures | | 49:03–53:36 | Trust in authority collapses, instant conspiracy theorizing | | 80:16–81:36 | AI content commoditization and regulation concerns | | 112:14–118:16 | Clavicular, looksmaxxing, funding theories, internet subcultures | | 140:15–143:48 | “IMU theory”, relatability as the ultimate superpower | | 154:18–159:41 | Privilege, wealth, and generational parenting debates | | 161:09–163:20 | Challenges of parenting today and understanding privilege | | 163:58–164:53 | Final reflections on success, impact, and future outlooks |

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Tone, Style & Format

• Fun, irreverent, speculative, and highly conversational.
• Willing to explore far-out theories but always loops back to self-awareness and practical realities.
• Guests and host switch between comedic asides and genuine reflections on societal and personal impact.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a tour de force of 2020s internet culture, pulling together memes, conspiracies, earnest creative advice, and macro-political observations. Jack Mac's firsthand experience at Barstool and in the influencer world makes for a rich, detailed discussion, while Julian Dorey’s probing style ensures the conversation remains both self-critical and authentic. Whether you want to understand how TikTok subcultures can shape a generation, why AI poses existential questions for creators, or why—at the end of the day—success often comes back to being “just like everyone else,” #416 delivers wide-ranging insight, humor, and food for thought.

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[End of summary]

Transcript

[Julian]

Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummerahead to learn more. See you this summer. Yeah, I've always thought about, like, the idea of how much pop culture influences everything, including like the establishment orientation of society now. And with you, it's like I could. I've been seeing your videos on my feed for years. It feels like at this point, but with you, it's like I could get a video about, like the latest Alex Cooper, Alex Earl drama that I somehow watch for three minutes and say, I can't believe I'm invested in this. Don't know why. And then I'll get a video about like, literally the bullets were not even on the ground yet from the Secret Service the other night. And you were like, all right, here's everything that happened with Donald Trump being shot at.

[Jack]

What the fuck? So Saturday night I was watching UFC card and then my friend was watching. There was NBA playoffs on, NHL Playoffs. And he was like, he a friend that typically isn't on the top of the ball. He's like, did Trump just get shot at? I was like, what are you talking about? Then I went to Twitter and obviously I saw it and it was evacuated. Then we saw. It's like, oh, was it possibly the plates falling? There was a lot of. And then we heard, I think Kaitlan Collins was the first one to say, no, there was a shooter in the Secret Service. At first I thought like, we felt like he was dead, but he was not. It was. He's obviously alive now. He's in prison. But. And then I was like, oh, this is big. And then I let a little bit more stuff come out because it was definitely a. We had to monitor the situation, as they say. But to go back to your point, initially, yeah, I think so. Barstool Sports was founded on the idea of we're going to cover everything that you talk about on a barstool.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

At a bar.

[Julian]

Yep.

[Jack]

So even though it's an interesting point where it's, oh, what does a 29 year old guy care about Alex Cooper, Alex Earl. But here's the thing. In my group chats, people are talking about it. At work, people are talking about it. They may not admit to it and they may Be like, that's kind of silly. That's stupid. But people watch. And then also I. You always want to. Just from a marketing point of view, having more women on, like, that buy into your stuff and follow you is huge because they make all of the mark or buying decisions across. Like, that's just.

[Julian]

Oh, I never thought of it that way.

[Jack]

Oh, oh, well, yeah, we got to get in on that if you want to have a true impact in terms of, like, influencer. I mean, all the deals go to women because women buy things. Dudes, you probably are wearing the same pair of shorts that you had from 2011.

[Julian]

That's correct. You're a thousand percent.

[Jack]

But women buy things every single day. And it's not just makeup, it's everything. So if you can somehow get both. If you can get men and women, you're really in the. You're really in a great spot. So that's what I'm always trying to get. Both. Because it's. If you can get women, you can get deals 100%. And women get most of the deals because they make the. Like, people can complain about it, but that's what they do. That's why Alex Earl is worth tens of millions of dollars at this point.

[Julian]

Yeah. I was unfamiliar with her game and everything going on there. Obviously, I know Alex Cooper well from the industry. I mean, I don't know her personally, but I know what you're saying, you know.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Friend of the show, Tim Dylan would say.

[Jack]

Well, but she is. I mean, you guys are in. I mean, you guys are in the same charts.

[Julian]

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you.

[Jack]

But she's been in the. I said it in a video. I was like, oh, she is. If you do a podcasting hall of fame, she's in it. And people got mad at me. She's been a top 10 podcaster since 2018.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And you know how insane that is. That's up there with part of my take and everything now. Part of my take's been longer, maybe a little bit higher. But she's. I mean, she's interviewed presidential candidates, she's interviewed reality star, she's interviewed biggest celebrities. So she is top of the top. She's in that podcasting hall of fame.

[Julian]

Her. I mean, she's controversial just because of, like, what the topic was and what she was coming up as. And she leaned into that 100%. And I would agree, regardless of, like, whether you would ever enjoy that kind of content. I'm pretty sure a lot of people listen to this show. Like, even on the comedy end, like, it's more dudes. In that case, that's not really the cup of tea listening to Alex Cooper talk about.

[Jack]

I've never listened to a full Call

[Julian]

of Daddy episode, but there's no doubt. Like, I remember when that was started, when it was the two of them, when it was her and Sophia, and it was real. Like, it hit this. It hit a niche that people didn't even realize was there in early mid 2018 by that point. And you were just like, whoa.

[Jack]

And it's huge for. It was unbelievably big for Barstool.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Before, people just thought of Barstow, specifically women's. Thought of it as a Instagram page.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And. And she and Sophia, they really. They just took the ball and they ran with it. Truly. They just. And they. They were saying things that were kind of crazy. But, I mean, it's kind of like it was locker room talk for women, and they were probably like, that's exactly what it sounds like in their rooms now. I didn't listen. I saw clips and all that. I was an intern at the time, so.

[Julian]

Oh, you were there?

[Jack]

I was there when I was popping off. And I mean, it was cool because when I started as an intern, they weren't there yet. And then you were an intern. So I started 2017 when I was still in college, and then 2018, I was still in college too, and I was an intern, but they popped off and then. Oh, girls actually cared that you worked at Barstool before, it was just only dudes, but colored out. He was like, oh, you know, Alex Cooper, you know, Sophia.

[Julian]

The fact that I think Dave, if I remember correctly, found them, like, the second upload, they did, and they were uploading in, like, 32g kilobits per second. The kbps. I never remember what that stands for in audio, which is, like, extremely low for people listening. We uploaded 192 on Spotify and 320 on YouTube. And that's been since day one. Like, they. She was literally editing it at her kitchen table. And that wasn't her skill, but it was so it caught people so much that it didn't matter. Like, that people just. Especially, like so many Gen Z millennial women were just so into it.

[Jack]

And a big moment for her, I think that really helped was before that, she was at a Rangers game with Noah Syndergaard.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

The old Mets pitcher And I think they were, like, making out at the. At the game. So when somebody presented that to Dave, he was like, oh, I know her. And they took the chance. I mean, they didn't think. I mean, they. They definitely took the chance knowing, oh, it could work out. But I don't think in their wildest dreams they would think it would be what it became. And it helped tremendously to Barstool.

[Julian]

Yeah. I mean, what do you pay at the beginning? I think their salary was like 75k a piece or something like that. I mean, for him, it's like, all

[Jack]

right, let's make this better, and we'll see that. Yeah. And what's funny is that it wasn't actually the first female podcast at Barstool. The first female podcast was Chicks in the Office.

[Julian]

I remember that.

[Jack]

And they are still killing it. They're just. They're one of the bigger success stories in our company's history, too. So those two.

[Julian]

That's Fran and Rhea.

[Jack]

Yeah. Were huge for to get Barstool more in the women category.

[Julian]

Well, I remember their big thing to me was I would still. That was probably, like, the last time I ever really looked at Facebook, like, in any way was like, probably 2015, early 2016, and they mastered the, like, maybe it was two to three minute video on Facebook space, and you would see them everywhere. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, Barstool's doing, like, the podcast.

[Jack]

And then. Yeah. No Facebook. It's so crazy that Facebook is still kind of the most visited social media platform ever. Are you guys big on Facebook?

[Julian]

No, we just. I shit you not.

[Jack]

I'm like, you guys, three weeks ago,

[Julian]

we got on, like, we've always had a page that I don't even know how to log into. We have never put content on there. Three weeks ago, we got on. I think we have, like, 25,000 followers already or something. That's crazy.

[Jack]

No, it's. It's massive. And it's specifically massive with older people. And then just. I think the Hispanic community, it's still massive and international, too. It is. Facebook. Facebook is still the number one platform.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's. It's like the most. That's what people were telling me. And for the longest time, for me, it's like. I mean, you see this very upstart kind of organization, if you call it. So it's always been like, I want to do 20 things, and I have to pick one or two at a time. So it was always like, all right, yeah, we'll get to that. And then I Hit up my boy Aiden, who knows like a good bit about Facebook. And he's like, bro, come on, it's 20, 26. You gotta.

[Jack]

We gotta get on here.

[Julian]

I'm like, you're right, you're right. Let's go ahead.

[Jack]

And I also think it would be big because you have so many, like, different spectrums of guests that sometimes you'll have people that. People that are on there will know them. And there's a lot of people that probably already watch your. Your podcast religiously, that if you somehow pulled them, I would assume 15 to 20% of them, their number one app used is Facebook number one.

[Julian]

You think it's that much for social media?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Wow.

[Jack]

I mean, I guess that may be a bit high of a guess because you have a lot, a huge amount of people on YouTube. So maybe YouTube's their number one. But it's. I do, you know, separate box, though. Yeah.

[Julian]

Like, I look at YouTube. Separate, like Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. That's one box. And then YouTube's like, that's TV.

[Jack]

I think if. I mean that, that. That's just so like you were saying, you're an upstart, kind of. You do whatever you do. But if you had, like a true company come in and assess, I think they would say, no, dude, Facebook is where a lot of your fans already are. And you would get more. Because if there's 20% of your fans or 10% of your fans are on Facebook, that means the people that are on Facebook may be like them. And then they could become new fans.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Now that those are those big agencies that probably aren't worth it for you. Like, just. But the nice thing is if you connect it and you post on Facebook or on your Instagram and you connect it, it just. It can upload to that too. And it'll get pushed into the algorithm there already. It's just a cross posting because it's. And Instagram. And this is something Instagram wants you to post on Facebook.

[Julian]

They do.

[Jack]

And they want you to post on threads, too.

[Julian]

Oh, they really want threads now.

[Jack]

And it will only help your page.

[Julian]

Who the fuck is on threads?

[Jack]

There's people on there. I'm dead serious, man.

[Julian]

I know Deef's on there.

[Jack]

No, but people are on there.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Like, it's a little bit different. It does give kind of like a blue sky effect, but, but, but too substack. Oh, substacks. Like. Yeah. Do you write it all or.

[Julian]

No, I am a writer by trade initially.

[Jack]

I mean, subset could even be Something that would be. There's.

[Julian]

Jack. There is so much going on in my.

[Jack]

You have too much. Yeah.

[Julian]

I'm like, I gotta. You know, I always joke. It's like. You see, what Stephen Bartlett's pulled off with Diary of a CEO is amazing. He's built it for many, many years. He built companies before that, too. I didn't build before I did this. You know, he's got, like, 50 people. I got three guys in Christian, the Venezuelan now. I mean.

[Jack]

So the cool thing is, though, and something I remind myself a lot, too. This is such a long game.

[Julian]

It is.

[Jack]

I mean, I would assume. I mean, I want to do what I do forever. I mean, maybe at some point I stop, but I meant more so. I mean, think about it. You could be doing this for 20, 30, 40 years.

[Julian]

That's what I plan to.

[Jack]

And so it's such a long game. Like, you could get to those mediums at some point. The rush is. I think some people in the content game, they try to do too much, and then it's just. And sometimes it gets out of control. It's even happened to me. And then she's got to. You've got to focus on what you do best. I mean, if you don't get to Facebook, it's not the end of the world.

[Julian]

Yeah, I agree with you 100%, bro. It's almost like I'm always stepping out as best I can and, like, looking at the big picture and looking at it to where we've gotten, like, step by step, and it's. I think of this, like, proverbial scene in movies where, you know, there's one I'm thinking of right now. I can't think of the movie, but the captain is, like, going through this crazy storm in the middle of the ocean, and everyone's going, like, hit it now. He's like, not yet. Not. And they're like, we're all gonna die. And he's like, not till I say. And then eventually, like, they get to the last moment. It's like, now. And hit. Like, that's kind of how I look at this. And I'm like, we're not now yet. I mean, we're. I'm still saying, shut the fuck up. We're gonna get there.

[Jack]

We're. We're gonna.

[Julian]

You'll get there, and then I'll know that. I hope I'll know that moment where it's like, fudge it. Just every. I mean, I throw every dollar I have at this, but, like, throw every resource I have. Get in debt up to my eyeballs for like a month. And like just, Just go.

[Jack]

Yeah. Now the nice thing is, I mean, I know what you're saying. The nice thing is it's. I feel like that'll be there, but. And you could drive yourself crazy trying to find oneself crazy. The right moment is. That's right. And I will say, I mean one thing that you kind of look back on, if you do the work, I feel like it kind of just works out.

[Julian]

That's right, man. That's why we like, that's the thing. I get as present as I can. And I've gotten way better at it at like today. Right. So we have upped the volume in what we do so much, we're putting out three episodes a week. Two three hour episodes, which is, it's. It's nuts.

[Jack]

And you are doing things that are. I mean, for me not to take anything away from myself, but this one's probably a little bit easier than a guy that's coming in. Like, I was watching the one, the guy that. I forget his name. He was talking about homeschooling and it

[Julian]

was, oh, Spencer Taylor.

[Jack]

Just. Yeah. And he. You probably have to really make sure you don't sound like an idiot when like he comes in there. So you gotta, you have to make sure that you're on top of it reading stuff. I know he has that documentary that he put out. I still have to watch it. But it's. You're already kind of doing. You're already all in. Anybody would say that, that, oh yeah, you're already all in. But I mean, obviously. But there's always people that are going to be like, oh, we could take it to this level, that level. Maybe you could just like, you could just do it yourself. Who cares?

[Julian]

It. What I mean is I've been all in since day one. All my money goes back into this. I've been doing it seven days a week since March 13, 2020. But when I, when I'm talking about that moment, it's like where you hit it and suddenly those 15 phone calls you got to make to set up 15 things instead of one or two, like I said, just do it. And you don't think about like how much debt you're going to go into for that minute doing it.

[Jack]

Yeah, I know, I know what you're saying.

[Julian]

That's all it is. But for me, the only thing money is when I get it at the end of the month is it's just firewood.

[Jack]

You just put it back in.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's I take it, I go, oh, cool, Right back in.

[Jack]

Yeah. You pay rent, you pay for all the studio stuff and everything, and then you go back in. But, I mean, that's how you probably why you've gone from where you were on April 14, 2022, to where you are in 2026. And. But it's. The present thing is probably the thing that I. If I could have one skill, it's that. Yep. And I try to. I try to be better at that. I'm a guy who. It doesn't happen a lot, but I catastrophize a lot.

[Julian]

Like, catastrophize or.

[Jack]

I said that wrong.

[Julian]

I like that. I'm gonna use that.

[Jack]

But I like. I spiral.

[Julian]

Ah.

[Jack]

And I think. But. And you think, oh, this isn't gonna work. That's not gonna work. And it's not a negative thing. It's just something that I found out about myself throughout the years that I'm just. Yeah, I spiral.

[Julian]

What happens? What gets you to that?

[Jack]

I'm not sure why I try to get. What gets me there is. Oh, let's say you try something, you do something new, it doesn't work out. You're like, oh, all of this is going to end. There's like a fear that I have that tomorrow it's just. This was all facade, 100%, you know, and I guess you could call that. What's the term? Imposter syndrome. But I have to remind myself. No, and also you have to remind yourself. I was talking to you about my buddy who's a cop. He told me years ago. He's like, oh, Navy seals have this rule where it's just worry about the next meal until the next meal. So. All right, I'm gonna eat at 6pm it's now until 6pm Obviously, you have to think about the future, but truly, outside of a few kind of moments here and there, it's really the presence only that matter. So I try. That's the thing that I probably work on the most, to try to be more present than thinking too far down the line. And there's always new social media. We were just talking about Facebook substack. There's always new platforms, there's always new ideas, but you just want to make sure that you're on top of everything and you don't lose momentum. Like, that's fear.

[Julian]

Yes. It's like when you start to ruminate on things that haven't happened and are out of your control. In addition to that drive in you. I like that. Catastrophize. I'm going to use that. It's better. And spiraling, like it creates these catastrophes, so to speak, that haven't happened in your head. And while you're doing that, you're not doing something. Yeah.

[Jack]

And when you're doing that and you're spiraling, you're just. You get into this zone of you're almost ruminating on a.001% probability. And there's proof in the work. But my fear and what I spiral is like the algorithm's gonna change and just boot me out. Yeah, but what's the value in that when you're trying to make the next thing that works.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

Not very high.

[Julian]

But it also, you know what it does? It keeps you humble too, which is great. Like that. I love that. That's. It's like the double entendre of this job. You're tortured by the fact that you're like, holy shit, what if I wake up tomorrow and no one wants to listen?

[Jack]

No one gives a fuck.

[Julian]

Right. But then the other idea is like, bitch. That's how replaceable you are.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Oh, great. You know what I mean?

[Jack]

Yeah. And I mean. Yeah. And I'm definitely concerned about AI in its own way.

[Julian]

How so for you?

[Jack]

I remember last year I was at a meta conference. A meta, like their. You know when the CEO goes up, like Steve Jobs used to do it.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

And I was there and they invited me. It was great. But I was talking with this guy who's big in AI and he's like, he, he was like, for the next two years, your goal should be to get this flyover effect where you are almost seeked out. Because in two years, he feels the AI will be able though that people will create creators. They will take what you do and they'll be able to do it and they'll be able to make 75 versions of you. Find one that works and then that person just does it. And it's not a person, it's AI. Now, this is a guy that's big in AI and maybe a bit too confident. So I thought of that. But the flyover effect thing was. He was saying people are going to start to not understand what's real and what's not.

[Julian]

That's right.

[Jack]

But if they know you're real, they'll seek you out.

[Julian]

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[Jack]

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[Julian]

Yeah, it's escape velocity. I love that term.

[Jack]

So you almost get above. But the thing is, I mean I think of people that I It's funny, you. We were just talking about all those, oh, it's going to go wrong, it's going to go bad. I think of myself as. People will ask, oh, how did you do it? And I'm just like, I'm still doing it. I don't really even know. And then also it's like I just kind of got lucky. I have confidence in myself for sure. But I started making videos when TikTok was like, very popular and I started making blog and I had the backdrop of. And the kind of the blueprint of making or writing blogs. And so I knew, oh, I know what people like on the Internet. I'll just do this in video form. And then I just kind of got in the algorithm. I don't know if. And what if I was five years older? I mean, it's, it's very hard to grow now. I just got in at the right time.

[Julian]

Yeah, that's. That's an interesting point. Like, I, you know, I'm sure you can relate to this. There's so many messages now that I see maybe 1 or 2% of them. But when I see one and, and especially if I see one and a message says, like, hey, I'm thinking about starting something or doing something, I'd love to pick your brain. I always try to take that call. Sometimes I drop the ball on it. But I've been on a lot of calls with people because I never want to be the gu. That was like, you know, someone looked up to and then acted like they didn't believe in them or something. I have a real phobia about that. So I, I talk with people and, and I ask them, like, what are you trying to do? Oh, I'm trying to do a podcast. Oh, I'm trying to create this kind of content. Oh, I'm trying to do that. And I try to be real with them too. Like, hey, first of all, if that's your dream, go get it. Don't let anyone tell you not to. Secondly, have you thought about this or have you thought about that? And just like, how you're going to get started doing that? Because it was already, when I moved to this in early 2020, extremely saturated.

[Jack]

Yes.

[Julian]

It. Especially in 2022, 2023, the saturation went like that. I think in everything with contents. It is nuts, man.

[Jack]

And that's what I think they're saying too. That AI point is it's already saturated with real people and so. And it's going to become saturated with fake people too. There's already Fake like it's more. It's obvious to our eye where it's. I think there was a guy that said that he, he was running a fake Maga girl. Yes. Instagram. And she was just it very easy. I mean, if you want to make, if you want to make some money. Yeah, just be a fake maga girl and then just take Jack Posobics talking points and tweets and make them your own and just say, hey, chat gbt. Chat gbt. Redo this point and then make a video of it. And AI generated Maga girl to grift super dumb men and I. And so. And like you put yourself in a farm or some and then people believe it. And then, I mean, if you're okay morally with it taking those people's money, then that's your. I'm not here to tell you you can't. But it's a great thing that you can do in this. And, but, and there was another one I saw. It was in Politics related. It was. There's just this chick who's like, she's a fake farmer, but there's videos of her. She does look real. I know it's not because of little AI, but I'm sure if I showed my father, he would think it's real.

[Julian]

Do you see how. So there's two examples coming to my head right now. There was a speech that Varys gave to Tyrion in like the first or second season of Game of Thrones where he's talking about the three people, the three different types of people and who has the power. And he's like sitting there like, yeah, there are all kinds of videos that have reinvented him saying something new.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Julian]

And they look daint like I have to go like this. Like, well, I know that's not real, but could I tell that's not real if I hadn't seen.

[Jack]

But, but here's the thing. And that's the stuff that they're putting out there.

[Julian]

That's just what they. Exactly.

[Jack]

And now that goes back to like, what. Who. What's the AI that the military has, that the, the government has, that people have that are, are really now. I was just talking about the moral morality of scamming people in middle America that are 65 years old that think they're talking to a, like a hot MAGA chick. But we know that these people in high places, what are they doing? That is. And I mean, I was even thinking of. I was in the car on yesterday and I was thinking about how there was A guy, he was the Uber driver and next to it, he had one of those classic like bank robberies, kind of, but it's more a winter hat. But you only see the eyes and the face. Yeah, but I was thinking myself, there's probably ways now to wear skin tight.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

That is not even so you can go and rob a bank or do something or try an assassin, and that's not actually the person. I think about this often and it's probably elite. We see these makeup artists and stuff, but there's probably stuff out there that is. And now I'm not saying I know it, I'm just guessing.

[Julian]

No, no, you're. But you're right, there's two thoughts here. First of all, Annie J. I always say this. Say this one. Annie Jacobson wrote about this five, six years ago when she was writing about darpa. Whenever that was. If people remember what year that book came out, you know that there was data that DARPA was telepathically talking to Dolphins in like 1992. Like, what the else do you think they have?

[Jack]

There's some of these things that they come out that they were like, we were doing this in 1965.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

So what are they doing right fucking now, dude?

[Julian]

Yeah, they're running.

[Jack]

No, that's why I'm like, that's why I'm like, I can't. Like, I do care and I understand there's real life decisions that have to be made by politicians that get. That affect people day to day lives. But there's. And we're, we're just learning about what the ruling class is doing 20 years ago, 30 years ago. What are they doing now? Now I'm not saying there's like, I hope. I don't know. And they could be doing things that are just insane, that go beyond our. I mean, even Trump talked about, I think he called it discombobulator, that the, the machine that they used in Venezuela where it's like they went down and like these people, like they just, they press the button and these people just got violently ill. And he called it the discombobulate. He loves the discombobulator.

[Julian]

Did he describe what that looked like? I can't remember.

[Jack]

No, but if you remember, the New York Post came out with an article about it talking how there was. Or maybe there was somebody that worked for the New York Post that said the new. Or the, the military used a new machine that completely ruined.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah, scroll over on that. That's all from the ground, from what they used. That's not public.

[Jack]

You see like these. Yeah. But like that's like they have access to the things. And I mean, I think Trump does say more than the typical president has, but there's probably things that are being used that we're not even.

[Julian]

What's going on with that ballroom, bro?

[Jack]

Well, the ballroom.

[Julian]

So is it the ballroom or is it the ball room?

[Jack]

So there's always been something underneath the White House, right?

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And there's always been like the, the bunker of sorts. Now are they building something else underneath there? I'm. I'm not sure now.

[Julian]

Privately funded?

[Jack]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is, this goes to what's, what's, what's underneath there? I mean, I think it's more. It could be a bunker or it could be a place where it's like you could put. It's a modern day bunker, quote unquote, that you could put the President or the. Whoever needs to be down there and they can just control everything. No one can get down there. It's almost impossible. I don't know.

[Julian]

It's very. Because like Trump is. You wonder how calculated he is while trying to appear uncalculated sometimes. Yeah, right.

[Jack]

That's the ultimate question about.

[Julian]

That's a double entendre. But this has literally been like the weird reflexive talking point that he's gone to since Charlie Kirk died. Whenever he's talking about something, could be Charlie Kirk dying, could be the Iran war, could be attacking Venezuela, could be what the Fed did yesterday. Somehow in the conversation he goes, but D.C. the ballroom. We're working on that. Obviously it's a very important thing. Like, what is this about?

[Jack]

So is that. Or is that just his ego where he wants to have a final thing, like he wants to build another monument that's essentially the Trump monument in. On the. Where in D.C. and is this just his ego talking or is he this brilliant and that goes back to kind of this time traveling? There's that theory of that book that came out like in 1904, that bear. It's like the. The Times of Barron Trump. Have you seen this?

[Julian]

No way.

[Jack]

Okay, this is. Look up, like the theory behind Barron Trump and time traveling. And there's this, there's this book from like 1904 before Trump. I think Nikola Tesla is involved in some way.

[Julian]

Oh, well, Tesla, his apartment, when it was raided after his death. It was Donald Trump's uncle.

[Jack]

Yeah. So it was all.

[Julian]

Yeah, all right, well, this is real. You're not making this up. The theory that Barron Trump Is a time traveler. Stems from uncanny similarities between Donald Trump's youngest son and the protagonist of 19th century novels by Ingersoll Lockwood. The theory suggests that Barron Trump, a character who travels throughout time guided by a mentor named Don, predicts modern political event. Some speculating. The Trump family possesses time travel technology. The Lockwood novels written in 1890s, Barron Trump's marvelous underground journey and the travels and adventures of little Baron.

[Jack]

Those are the things that I'm like. I'm like, dude, wait, wait, wait.

[Julian]

Feature a young rich boy named Baron who lives in Castle Trump. You can't make this shit up.

[Jack]

I'm like. And then you think about Baron and it's. And you think of all the theories with Baron.

[Julian]

Oh yeah, he's seeing the fractals, bro.

[Jack]

And then it's. And then is Baron the next one up, per se. And then also you think about his other sons that have kind of been forgotten. Don Jr. And Eric Trump. And I mean, think about Tiffany Trump. She's the most forgotten one. Yeah. Poor kid. Yeah. Yeah. But she. It may be better that way because Don Jr. Can't walk around New York City.

[Julian]

No.

[Jack]

Nope. But Tiffany Trump, people point out by the. I mean, Kai Trump, that's the granddaughter. Granddaughter. She goes to. It was a bad timing. She goes to Erewhon with her Secret Service. You know where Erwan is? Oh, it's la.

[Julian]

Air Force One.

[Jack]

No, no, Erewhon is this. It's a Instagram it place to go in la. That is a grocery store. Think of Whole Foods times a hundred. And it's very expensive. Hailey Bieber has a smoothie there. It's good, but Erewhon. Anyways, I'm a strawberry.

[Julian]

I'm a bodega kind of guy. Yes.

[Jack]

$21 for a strawberry glaze.

[Julian]

Go yourself, dude.

[Jack]

I can't believe you don't know Erewhon. So here, this is where I have like the NPC brain, where I know all about all these like random things. That's why you're here. Yeah, but. Yeah, exactly. She goes to Error. She does it.

[Julian]

She.

[Jack]

She wants to be a YouTuber. She does a YouTube. And she's like, I took my. And it's a very. It's a thing. If you're not from la, influencers go out there and go, oh, I went to Erewhon for the first time. She goes with the Secret Service. And it was in the midst of. It was in the midst of something.

[Julian]

Can we Google that?

[Jack]

Yes.

[Julian]

Oh, this is when we were. It was back in Iran.

[Jack]

It was something like that. And people were making fun of her like, how dare you do this. People are starving your. Your grandfather. And then. But she's just doing this stupid video.

[Julian]

Right?

[Jack]

And why. It struck a nerve.

[Julian]

Here we go.

[Jack]

But she's this 18 year old girl who isn't even in college yet. Oh no. She, she, she may be at my.

[Julian]

She's about to be.

[Jack]

She's about to be.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah. What was the headline? Def. Sorry. Kai Trump's cringy Erewhon. Gross. That's how they spell it.

[Jack]

Kai.

[Julian]

What?

[Jack]

Like Kai Sonata. Oh, wait. Erewhon. Sorry.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah. What in the name of fucking medieval times is that? Erewhon. Grocery store haul. And why it struck a nerve. All right, let's go down. So this is from March 11th. Kai Trump, the president's 18 year old influencer granddaughter, went to a grocery store and a lot of people aren't happy about it. That's because she didn't go to just any grocery store. She went to Arowan, a trendy market in Los Angeles notorious for wacky wellness offerings and exorbitant prices. In a YouTube video titled I Bought,

[Jack]

I Brought My Secret, that was what

[Julian]

brought my secret service to Arowan. Posted March 9, she documented her experience where she bought a smoothie for $20 each and her bill came out to $233. I'm about to go like

[Jack]

she didn't, didn't help me.

[Julian]

Let me get this line out. I'm about to go like bankrupt with this stuff. She said in the video I'm gonna need to file for bankruptcy now. I feel like you're gonna be all right.

[Jack]

Her grandfather does know a lot about bankruptcy.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's. I like this line. The French revolted for so much less. Straight up Hunger Games at this point. Lmao. Let them eat. Yeah, let them eat cake was what came to mind. Now she's an 18 year old kid, obviously like I was when I was 18, so.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Julian]

But now the clay.

[Jack]

Now it wasn't like she went to Erwan and someone stalked her. She posted it herself.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

So that's where I kind of get both sides, where it's like, why are you attacking 18 year old girl? But also you're posting a public figure to public figure. And if you want to be a YouTuber now. But yeah, she went to Erwan. She was going to go into bankruptcy over it. There's a lot of quote tweets about it. It was March 8, so I think that's around when Trump.

[Julian]

Well, Iran Was February twentiet, the night of February 27th into 28th.

[Jack]

So there we go. So it was a week into it, and everybody. So that's what I think. A lot of people.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's. It's like, this is my thing. When you looked at the Biden administration for four years, it was like a giant troll job, right? You had a president who, like, the lights weren't even on, forget whether or not he was home. A bunch of unelected people running the country. You had fucking luggage stealing transgenders, running your nuclear department. I mean, it was like this greatest

[Jack]

story of all time. It was. I didn't realize people. I think people do that a lot. That's a thing.

[Julian]

What, the stealing luggage?

[Jack]

Yeah, people just show up and stuff.

[Julian]

Like a klepto thing?

[Jack]

I think. No, I think people just do it because they know that, like, it's almost like a storage wars, but for free. Because you're by. You're just, you're just taking a bag

[Julian]

and then you're like, oh, well, now Palantir is taking over the airport. So maybe they'll.

[Jack]

So, yeah, so you'll. You'll steal it and then they'll kill you. They'll. They'll just shoot you dead. Or if you had like, you shared like, the wrong Benjamin Netanyahu meme. So it's either or.

[Julian]

Yeah, you're done. But, like, optically, it was top to bottom, it was like, embarrassing. And you're like, okay, it can't get worse than this, right? The Trump administration, it's an entire. It's hard to explain, but it's like a different language of it. But the optics everywhere are awful. You have a lady with a fake face running fucking the Homeland Security Department, spending millions of dollars while her husband's wearing fake titties out there that in their defense, they could have never known about the husband. You got like Cash Patel, who's one of the dumbest human beings and can't even. I mean, he's looking at two places at the same time at all times, but never. You got like top to bottom. It's a similar kind of thing, just. You know what I mean?

[Jack]

Like, no, it's a copy paste with a completely different actors. It's very. Yes. Now I. But I think, you know what I really think my, My read on it is I think the Trump, and this is what we kind of talked about before we started recording the Trump admins kind of philosophy is it doesn't matter what the optics are. We win.

[Julian]

Do you think that is how they've always been. Or do you think they got this enormous fucking big dick from, like, the culture shift when they won the election the second.

[Jack]

So when I say we win, that's their philosophy. I'm not saying they're winning. I'm not saying they're right.

[Julian]

Right. No, no.

[Jack]

But I think. And maybe, like, they like the COVID stuff. Everything that happened at. During COVID and then kind of the Biden administration. I mean, he lost in 2020, even though he says he doesn't. But he lost in 2020 for reelection, and then he won again. It was this crazy comeback story, but it really happened because we went through this crazy time period in Covid, which I think he gets a lot of shit for. For, like. I mean, he was the president when it started. That wasn't going to be stopped by anybody.

[Julian]

I agree.

[Jack]

I think that was. You could have put anybody in would have been impossible. The fact we even got to pull off the two weeks is almost like, crazy in the American spirit, where it's like the two, like, people. This country really did shut down for two weeks.

[Julian]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack]

The fact that that, like, people even kind of agreed to that is almost insane. They eventually fought back, and now today,

[Julian]

they would never agree to that.

[Jack]

It would never. If that happened again, it wouldn't end. Looking back, I don't know what I would have done. That's why even, like, people get on Cuomo. People get on Cuomo did make some pretty bad calls about the nursing homes. But I remember Scott Adams, who. Obviously more of a Trump guy. Right. When.

[Julian]

Yeah, rest in peace.

[Jack]

Rest in peace.

[Julian]

Just.

[Jack]

He was saying, like, he's like. It's very hard to say to a quality, should have done this. You should have done that because you're not in those meetings. You're not in those calls now. It doesn't help when it's just, like, at the same time. At the same time, he's going through another scandal, and he's like, hey, I'm Italian. It's just how I like the Dutch.

[Julian]

It's nothing much.

[Jack]

Yeah. He's like, I'm Italian. And then you have de Blasio saying, like, here's get the vaccine with the. The Shake Shack fries.

[Julian]

So it's like, here comes the airplane.

[Jack]

It doesn't. It doesn't help. So it's like. But his point was, like, making the calls is tough for a lot of people. That was an impossible situation.

[Julian]

Yeah. And. And when I talk to people about it who were from, like, outside the northeast corridor, Right here, right in other places of the country, man, do I totally understand their perspective, too. From the very beginning, where they were seeing, like, very little of it, you know, they're like, no one around them was getting sick. Why is the whole fucking world shutting down? The weird part about here, and I think this is why the psyop was so effective, is because if you remember the first two weeks, it was kind of nuts. No one knew nothing, you know, insane. It was.

[Jack]

I stay. So my dad had diabetes. He's had diabetes since he was 20, I think type one or whichever one used, like, genetic. So I was a little bit afraid to go home because at first you were told, like, if there is, like, they were saying, like, diabetes is. It turned out more. So the COVID was a little bit like, if you had type two and it was like, if you were very overweight and all that, that was where you should avoid. But I was a little bit concerned. I didn't want to go home. Like, imagine, I remember reading it was. Someone says, it's like the risk of you being alone for a month or two is far. Is far less than what you would feel like if you gave somebody Covid now and then. Like, imagine if you were the reason your father died. Like, it would be awful now. That's what we were thinking at first, then eventually became clear. It's like, oh, you could. It's. Yeah.

[Julian]

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[Jack]

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[Julian]

Yeah, dude.

[Jack]

And then you go to Times Square right now. There was. It's not a joke. There was literally nobody there. It was like a weird dystopian movie.

[Julian]

Yeah, I remember one of the. When I was really making shorts, that was a clip that really resonated my friend Taylor Ringgold back in episode 49, he was talking about it because he was going into WFA and to work every day, and he would just cut. He would ride in it from long island, like 9pm at night. And it was just like, I am legend. And you know, I. It's crazy because Feb. Friday, I'll never Forget this Friday, Feb. 28, 2020, was the last time I was in New York City before. Until like 10 months later or whatever.

[Jack]

I was in Madison Square Garden the night the city shut down.

[Julian]

You went to Big East?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

No shit. I remember when they canceled those games.

[Jack]

So the Big east canceled the next morning. They were gonna play that like a 12:00pm game.

[Julian]

Yeah, I was supposed to go to that.

[Jack]

And I was at it the night before with my friends. And that was the night that they. The. That Thunder Jazz game. Yes, after Rudy Gobert went like that, that Thunder Jazz game happened. And they were like, you were hear. There was like, the players are like all in a circle with like their mouths tied. And like, it was insane. And that. I think Trump gave a speech that night too. And my sister was studying abroad, so my parents were freaking out. And I was trying to be the voice of reason. I was like, guys, it's fun. But I was, I wasn't even saying from the COVID point of view. I was like, guys, if you think Trump in America is not going to get a bunch of rich study abroad kids out of Europe, you. I'm sorry, you're wrong. They're gonna come home. But the parents, of course. I get it. You're a little bit freaking out. It's like, I want to get my. She got home the next day, she was fine, but I was there and that was the last time. And then two days later, everything was shut down.

[Julian]

Well, this is what was crazy. I was still working on Wall street at the time. I was like, transitioning out of there. But, you know, I'm in it because I got clients. And the market was. That was the February I remember because Kobe Bryant's memorial was February 24th.

[Jack]

Craziest part.

[Julian]

And that's when the market started. Was that Monday. And so that Friday the 28th, I'm in the city. I have a meeting above Grand Central Station.

[Jack]

Okay. Yeah.

[Julian]

And I was early. So I go down into the bottom of Grand Central Station with the Bluetooth on to take some calls with clients. I'm like, refreshing the Dow and the S and P and it's like, like everything's red falling through the floor. The Dow's like down like 1700 points. And I remember I'm getting off this call with a client and I just look around and, and I see, you know, thousands of people down there and there's, you know, there's dudes in military uniforms returning from service or Whatever. There's, you know, a missionary trip over there. There's a commuter going to an office over there and everyone's normal. And I had this moment where I'm just like looking around, I'm like, we're going to be all right. Yeah, no, yeah, we're going to be fine. And then just.

[Jack]

I was firm on, oh, by Easter, because I think Easter that year before

[Julian]

it even like shut down.

[Jack]

So. And crazy enough, I was in London two weeks before, like that February like 18th to 25th or whatever. And during that time when you were around there in London, that's. It started over there a little bit more. I was almost shocked that we, I, I didn't get it. I don't think I ever got it. I never tested positive for Covid.

[Julian]

I did.

[Jack]

Yeah, I remember it, I do.

[Julian]

And I got a bunch after that,

[Jack]

but took a while now maybe like. But I did test a decent amount because they made us test at work like once every Monday. There must have been, for whatever reason, our air system must have been really good in our, in our office in Manhattan for barstool. Because even when people would get it, no one else would get it. It wouldn't become a office thing. And I'm not, that's not me saying like, oh, it's fake. I was just like, I think for whatever reason, maybe it was. And we're in like a Department of Education building. We're not in this really nice building. Yeah, we're in a building that's like, it's us. Then there's eight floors, Department of Education, then some fit, which is a college in fashion. Yeah, fashion, yeah. So this is, it's like old school New York building. For whatever reason, even when people would get it, we wouldn't, it would not spread.

[Julian]

You know, I haven't thought about this in a while. Like this era that April, May, June of the pandemic. Because this is when I was building the show around the clock. I moved back in my parents house, building the studio and I would just, you know, be working all day and I'd follow some content in the background. But like that was the, that was the Davey Day Trader era. That was Portnoy's moment. That's when that call her daddy shit blew up. And somehow everyone was like actually paying attention to that. And what's crazy is Dave, gotta give him a lot of credit for this. He was like such an early voice of reason on this. He saw what this was. I remember when he put out a video, probably like early May 2020 where he talked about. He's sitting in his apartment and he talks about this Fauci moving the goalposts over and over and. And you're just like, yeah. And then Elon went on Joe Rogan on May 4, and he was saying the same thing. And you're like, whoa. And suddenly you're looking at Elon Musk and Dave Portnoy. Interesting pairing there. And they're just saying like, everything that we're being told right now is not really what it is. And these people are just enjoying this. And that was the click moment where you're just like, oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jack]

It's crazy to think that first month Fouchi was a superstar.

[Julian]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack]

And then it all. Now he's.

[Julian]

I mean, he loved it.

[Jack]

Yeah, he fouch. Yeah. I mean, and he had that kind of northeast accent.

[Julian]

Wear your mask and everything will be all right. Shut the fuck up.

[Jack]

Well, that's. That's the craziest part about COVID is how we've been. The mask thing that then you get into the vaccine. I mean, I get it. I think they had the best of intentions. Now maybe there was some powerful ruling class above everybody that.

[Julian]

You still think they had the best of intentions after the shit we've seen? They're eating babies out there, potentially.

[Jack]

No, I know, I know, I know. I just. I mean, maybe they just knew Fauci was. This guy's like the. He'll just do by the code. I. I feel like they felt looking back. The vaccine part is crazy.

[Julian]

It's crazy.

[Jack]

And it's not because it wasn't even a vaccine. It wasn't like the polio vaccine. It was something that was just. And like, how did they. How do we even know if it was safe and effective? It looks like. Yeah, and we probably don't. Won't know for a while. You need some long term studies and. But it was a huge bet. And I get it. But also you look at these other countries and I know they're a little bit different, but like Sweden just kind of left, let everything just go. But it's tough because there were so many people dying.

[Julian]

Yeah, they were also. That's the thing. They incentivized. The insurance companies were incentivizing, that's the hospitals, to put Covid on the certificate because hospitals were losing money hand over fist because people were afraid to go to the hospital if they had any type of problem. And so. So they'd say, well, you get 13,000 bucks or whatever it was if someone died of COVID So some dudes had stage four pancreatic cancer, been in the icu, and then he dies, and they go, call it Covid, and suddenly that's a statistic. I mean, it's nuts. The incentivization, like, when you. Because now we look at this from, like, the post Epstein apocalypse, and you're like, holy. Who was. Who really was pulling the strings here?

[Jack]

No, I don't know. I wish. I wish I did. That's what it's. And you kind of see it. Even what just happened this past weekend. The immediate response is, I don't blame people for it.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

It's like, oh, that was fake. And I get why people say that, because there's so many. And obviously, even putting aside some of the things that are a little weird about what happened this past weekend, I'm more saying I get why people kind of are like that.

[Julian]

Yes. I. Dude. Even if there's stuff where I'm like, all right, come on, let's relax. Let's let things come out. I can't sit here and let alone lecture, like, yell at people or get upset at people for thinking the worst when there are some of the things that people used to be called inherently crazy for saying that now are, like, provably true. And you're like, guess I can't rule out this other stuff, you know?

[Jack]

And it's so funny because. And this is kind of. I remember I was told in just the really basic, like, apart, maybe it's US History or AP Poli Sci or whatever. And they were just saying. They said, politics is very simple. If you look back, the country goes one way and then it shifts to the other way, and then it goes back and then it shifts the other way. And it's so funny because the people that were mad at that were in 2020-2024, it's like, oh, just take the vaccine. Shut up. Like, enough with the conspiracy theories. Now, those are the same people that are saying, oh, that was the fakest thing we've ever seen with. But here's the thing. It will. It will shift back two in ten years. I could. We will sit down here, and then the same thing will happen. And then. And the people that were the conspiracy theories are the ones that aren't even questioning things anymore. So it's like, It's. It's very. It's just this shift back and forth, and that's where sometimes they lose me a little bit. But I'm all for people. I mean, if you want to ask those questions Ask those questions. I don't know how you would recruit caltech mixed skin kid that had a Blue sky account that was talking with William Stencil and like.

[Julian]

And he's gonna live. Yeah.

[Jack]

And I don't. And he has to go to jail for the rest of his life. I don't know how you would recruit them, but screws are things you never know.

[Julian]

Like there's. And that's where you can't just run to stuff with. Had absolutely no evidence to go off of which to be clear, people were doing about five seconds.

[Jack]

Of course. Of course, of course.

[Julian]

But like the fact that your head runs to. Considering the idea that like, maybe it was MK Ultra. You have to crazy.

[Jack]

I was gonna bring it up. It's like maybe MK Ultra or maybe that discombobulator thing that we were just talking about. Maybe there's a discombobulator that can just trick your brain.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

I say like, I don't know.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I think that's a crazy thing to say. But I get why people are like,

[Julian]

yeah, you were talking about the masks earlier. I forgot about this. Right.

[Jack]

I was thinking around maybe you. Yeah. The mask.

[Julian]

John Amendez, who was like the godmother of like fucking CIA disguises. She tells a story and there's a picture of it. H.W. bush was at CIA. Obviously she knew him. Like they had a close relationship. And then he's. I think it was at this point he's president. He's not vice president anymore. He's actually president. So maybe it's like 1990. And she tells the story where she had come up with the new prototype mask, and she's like, let's test it out. She did a full briefing, closer than you, to me, to him, for like an hour, and then went like this. And he was like, what the.

[Jack]

30 years ago.

[Julian]

35 years.

[Jack]

35 years ago.

[Julian]

What do you think they got now, bro? You see those videos of dudes putting on the mask and like tighten it up like this and then putting the hoodie up and you're like, I. I would not know. And that's a basic like, you know, out of like a Spencer store in the mall.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah. They just want to steal to go get like, get 50k in jewelry.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

What are they willing to do where it's like trillions of dollars are on the line. I mean, I. Now it's not even money, it's power. Because it's like at a certain point, I mean, all these people are fine for the rest of their life, no matter What? Mm. So it's.

[Julian]

That's not what it's about.

[Jack]

What? It's not money. I mean, they already made it.

[Julian]

Money's away keeping score.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

That's it.

[Jack]

And then they're just power. I mean, it's the egos. I don't know if it's wanting their place in history. I don't really even know because I saw a tweet coming in here. It was like. So we're talking kind of on more of the theory side. On the real side, there's a huge chance, as this guy who just got arrested, he thought he was going to become like a Luigi Mangione figure and he was going to potentially kill somebody and then become a political kind of hero.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

But no one gives a fuck because he's not that good looking. And it's just. It's just he's a kind of a weird. Like, he's a average looking guy, and he failed. So that. And, I mean, I think it's fair as a human being to think of things from a probability point of view. And, yeah, there's. There's a chance it's fake. There's a chance that this guy's just crazy. And there's a chance that he thought he could do something. And then also all the indications. I can't believe they had it at this Hilton.

[Julian]

That's why they need the ballroom, Jack.

[Jack]

I know, I know, I know. And then the first. And I will say. I mean, when these people are saying these things, and it's like the first time an FBI director went to the White House Correspondence.

[Julian]

You got C SPAN fucking throwing. They were throwing side shots at it. Can we pull this up? Before the shots rang out, they're like, I guess C Span. This is like their, you know, Met Gala or whatever.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

So they're. They got the cameras for all 10 people watching home. And they're like. And there's Cash Patel, to be clear, you need to be a credentialed media member. I'm not really sure how he's here. He's technically not in the cabinet.

[Jack]

And Hegseth was there, too.

[Julian]

Hegseth is in the cabinet.

[Jack]

Oh, so that's more possible.

[Julian]

You know who I didn't see there?

[Jack]

Who?

[Julian]

Howard Lutnick.

[Jack]

Howard Lut.

[Julian]

I never saw my boy Howie there. This is interesting. That's just really interesting.

[Jack]

Howard. Howard is. It's funny because Howard's in every photo behind. And people will not post tweets. They'll be like, who's that guy behind Him. And it's like the people that know. It's kind of that meme. It's like the people that know. The people that don't know. Yeah, yeah, the guy. And it's like the people that know. And it's like, like deep ride.

[Julian]

Yeah, it's. If you go to Twitter, I just love the initial headline Patel. I've never been intoxicated on the job. Excellent. But if you go to Twitter, type in C Span, Patel. And they like, you just hear the. The people doing this. We're in dis. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. All right, let's get volume on this.

[Jack]

Here we go.

[Julian]

This is great. This is great. We got to mark that because that'll be. We'll be discussing the dinner, talking about issues, taking your calls as well. Looks like cash Patel is at. In the ballroom itself. Do not know who invited him. Again, you have to be a media organization and a member of the White House Correspondents association to have a table.

[Jack]

All right, so. So. So C span's so interesting because it's WFAN for. Yes. For like, it's literally WFAN for international or not. Or for politics.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

But even, like, less so. It's almost a. Because WFAN for politics was like Rush Limbaugh and all that. Like, C SPAN's kind of almost the.

[Julian]

They're the PBS.

[Jack]

Yeah. And people call in. Like, they literally call in. Who is watching? I've never heard of. I. I know people that watch. If you go into. This is another thing that fascinates me is TV ratings for Fox News, CNN, MSNBC are all driven by old people. Communities.

[Julian]

100. The average. The average listeners two years ago was 68, 69 and 70.

[Jack]

They're all around the same. Yep. And then you hear about. It's like. And then you hear from. My parents don't watch news like that. Maybe they'll turn it on if something's happening. But like, I've never been home. And then my. You. There's my dad watching MSNBC or Fox News. But then you talk to people say, yeah, my grandfather. You go home, they have Fox News on 8pm to 8pm they haven't missed the five in 15 years. I'm like, I guess someone has to watch it.

[Julian]

I was with. My dad's like, just old school passive, you know. What's that playing in the background? Yeah, it sounds about right. You know, like that and really smart guy. He just. Just doesn't have time to like, actually pay that close attention. So I'M down in Florida with him and I forget what it was he was asking me about, like Tucker Carlson's opinion on something with Israel that he heard about. So we have on when the war broke out, Tucker did this like 90 minute sit down, explaining the whole thing like, I'm Tucker Carlson, this is all wrong. And so we stick it on. And at one point he goes, obviously no one supports this work except for. You know, I hate to say it, but the people born between 1946 and 1964 watch Fox News. And I'm just like driving the car, looking straightforward, not saying anything, and my dad's just over there like,

[Jack]

damn it, got him.

[Julian]

That's me. Just like. That is entirely fascinating.

[Jack]

How does Fox News handle that? Because how do you keep your base while also trying to get new people in? Because where. What happens to those viewers? Is it just kind of the people that are born from 1965 to 1980 and 15, 20 years, they're the ones that are going to be watching? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't know though.

[Julian]

I think they're right. This is my guess. I don't know because I don't know anyone at these networks in particularly. But you know, when you look at cnn, when you look at Fox, when you look at msnbc, I am guessing it's like they realize the boomer generation is the largest, most overstuffed generation there is. They're going to ride this turkey as long as they can suck the last bit of the fucking fat out of it for money and for power and to get things through like FISA Warrens and Palantir and wars with Iran and bullshit here and bullshit there. And 10 years from now they don't care if it's gone because no one below those ages is ever going back to that. So they're just riding it while they can and sucking the rest.

[Jack]

And do you think, what do you think happened? So that's the big question. The people that are kind of rising up now, like even right and or left, do you think these are people that can make the change? Because, I mean, let's be real, Trump was supposed to make the change that was this whole thing, drain the swamp. But it's not really like you could even be someone that really loves Trump. And I think you could sit them down and say, hey, you drain the swamp. And they would kind of be like, yeah, but is it impossible to. Or is it just. And are. Is it. Do you not have enough time to do it? And is It. He's trying to drain the swamp, and then the courts are. There's these courts that stop it. I. I don't know. That's more saying from his point of view, or he was just lying. He just. He needed the money anyways. And here's the thing.

[Julian]

Here's the thing about Trump that's so confusing to me. When his first administration was very chaotic to me. I have political differences with Trump. I'm gonna have political differences with everyone who has been president, because I really don't identify with. With either party. But, like, when you. When. Once he was gone and he was gone for a little bit, you know, he got past all the hoopla with January 6th and all that, and you could really just think about it. I remember in, like, 2022, looking back on his presidency, and yes, it was chaotic. Yes, you never knew what he was going to tweet. Yes, there were things you didn't like. Yes, there were very dumb people hired. Yes. Mistakes all over the place. I'm not saying that wasn't the case, but I remember thinking about, like, what everyone was so worried about before he got.

[Jack]

Didn't happen.

[Julian]

And I was like, exactly. I was like, didn't happen. I said, I completely agreed with you. I said, Covid was going to happen to whoever was in there. That was like. Like, whatever, fine. There were things mishandled. Who cares? Before that, I'm like, was it the worst presidency I've ever seen? I was like, no, no. George Bush, George Washington, worst. I don't think Obama was a great president. I'm like, Trump was. He was fine now. And now. This is why I say this. When he was getting attacked. Attacked, Attacked while he was out of office, they threw charges on this guy. They, you know, were they. They. They almost killed him. Like, the whole bit, whatever that was, you know, it was almost like, okay, we've seen this before. He would. Yeah, he's a liar. Yeah, he's a New York guy. But, like, it was. It can't be worse than this, right? And then he comes in and it's opposite day on everything. And it's a different kind of bad. Like, Biden's bad was a very different vibe to it. Like we talked about earlier, this is a different kind of bad right here. But it's bad. And it's. To your point, it is whatever the opposite of drain the swamp is. They're literally building like a fucking Palantir Super Fest nest underneath the goddamn White House, as far as I'm concerned.

[Jack]

Yeah. You know, I Think that's a fair assumption. I mean, what, what even is that? And that's even like the 13th on the list of concerns, right? I mean, I think you saw what happened to Venezuela and you're like, okay, got in, got out. In theory, you could be against it completely. But it didn't get into this endless war. But this what's going on in Iran, it could be endless again. And then that brings us back to kind of Bush into Obama days and it's just now also another thing that I'm thinking about is now is this just Trumpian or is are we going through this? Like we're, we're so in, we're desensitized to it. But there's so many things happening every single day. The New York Times didn't even have the assassination attempt on their back cover on Sunday morning. Really? Yeah. Now I don't know if that's because Saturday night into Sunday, what you get? No, no, I saw it on Twitter. But, but, but you. I, I don't think it was on the, on the. The but. And there's so many things that happen and we over criticize everything, which is great. I think politicians should be over criticized of anything.

[Julian]

Agreed.

[Jack]

What will the next one look like? It. Does it kind of go back to the Obama thing where it's like nothing ever happens? Or do we go back to the Biden where it's like we have kind of a zombie running it? Or is it kind of just the Trumpian politics exist and then there's kind of the opposite effect of Trump that comes in that whoever wins, I mean if, if it's Newsom, if it's. I mean, I guess Newsom's kind of the leader now. I guess Kamala could run again. I don't think they would run Kamala again.

[Julian]

I can't run.

[Jack]

But she, she wins in these polls that they put out. She does.

[Julian]

What polls?

[Jack]

I. Well, that's another thing. The polls are a legit joke.

[Julian]

The fucking Soros polls. Like what are we talking about? But she can't put a sentence together.

[Jack]

Don't get me wrong. I mean, I think she would do.

[Julian]

I don't want to be president.

[Jack]

Like Newsom is definitely. Or Josh Shapiro, but I mean Josh

[Julian]

Shapiro never win because of the Israel.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. They didn't pick them because of, I mean picking Tim Walls is one of the all time decisions.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Because you could have gotten a Tim Kaine who Hillary had who was just whatever.

[Julian]

Yeah, he was white milk Toast.

[Jack]

Yeah, Milk toast. Tim, when he was walking out like this and then he's like, I'm a football coach actually. It's get the fuck out of here, dude. And he got married. Like his biggest, his, his favorite thing of all time was like the Tenement Square. He got married on the Tenement Square anniversary. He loves China. Minnesota is its own thing.

[Julian]

I felt. It felt like a troll. That's what everything feels like. It's a simulation.

[Jack]

But here's the thing. That's the establish like the establishment to an extent. I think it shifted a little bit in 2024, but they still got huge money from huge donors of people that are the establishment. I mean, George Clooney is the establishment. And there's people. There was so many CEOs that were supporting it, so many companies. How does that decision get made? How does somebody not look at that and think, this isn't going to work? I get why the Josh Shapiro thing didn't work. But even with that concern, I mean, she still had the same. There was a big kind of looking at why she lost. And they still feel as if her. Like a lot of people said it was like people didn't come out because they were kind of concerned about her potential support of Israel. So like if that was the first. That's a huge. No, a huge. If I recall correctly, they're kind of looking back on it a lot. They're kind of. When they went back and played Monday morning quarterback and they did the full kind of analysis, that was something that

[Julian]

came up, I guess, to prevent some of the hard left vote from coming out. That's like, that's what I'm saying. Because that, that's what like I don't think Kamala had an issue. I think Kamala was another peasant of a. On the string who wasn't going to do a goddamn thing.

[Jack]

Of course.

[Julian]

But like when you write down her policy positions, that was. Here we go.

[Jack]

Yes, Scoop. Dems working on secret report found Gaza costs.

[Julian]

She didn't speak up enough.

[Jack]

Yeah. But even though, like here's the thing, you're trying to please people that she. What could she possibly say right now? I understand it's. But these are people that want. It was like, oh, they want. The thing that she probably would have had to do there would be you. I'm going to recognize Palestine as its own state.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

And. But then also, I mean this is what. This is the issue with political stuff and then political suicide. And then you should probably lose a lot of donors. I mean that's the kind of, that's why it's like I can't imagine wanting to be political to that extent. If you just do stuff online, you talk about stuff online, it doesn't matter. You have your own fucking home. You can defend yourself. All of that. You're out there. You have to play so many games.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

And that's why I even, I think that's why I kind of feel a little bit. Kamala is her own thing. But I feel bad. It's like you. But then again you picked this power hungry game. You knew it. You could have stopped after you were in California. You could have like. And then also you can get out and make fucking $5 million a year being a consultant.

[Julian]

Why do you think they go for it when they know they, they're going to be owned?

[Jack]

I think there is a power and ego desire within people that I can't fathom. And that's probably just because like my mother and father were just great. They don't really have it right. There's some people that just. It's inside of them. It may be genetic.

[Julian]

Let me ask you this because I was thinking this earlier, like, how well do you know Dave Portnoy?

[Jack]

Not well enough. Not well at all. He's just my boss. He's just my boss and I like that he's my boss. That it's more. Yeah. He's not someone that really unless you're an og. I don't think you really know him that well.

[Julian]

But you, you probably know a little bit more about him than the average person on the street. 100%. Okay, so like Dave Portnoy self made, built this whole thing standing, you know, on, at train stops, handing out paper, newspapers in 03 after leaving his job. I respect the fuck out of it. Builds this over so many years, ends up taking some, some chips off the table, selling to Carlisle Group in 2015, whatever that was, part of it. Maintains full control though. Ends up then getting that back, but then giving up to pen and maintaining control of the company but not having control of the overall thing and then somehow ends up getting his 500 million dollar investment back for $1 and gets the whole thing back. He's as far as things are concerned like, like a billionaire. And yet to me everything I hear, he still hungrily attacks every day just like he did seven, eight years ago.

[Jack]

Even like I think he's definitely somebody that's a little bit more. Well obviously he's still an ambitious, hungry guy because if not he would have just went away but he's not like back when I started, he was in the office every single day. Now he's more, he goes, he's in Florida, he kind of runs like, I mean it's kind of an operation that's a little bit. And also I think it's strategic because he knows that he's not going to be around forever and not wanting to do everything Barcelona related forever. So he needs. You're almost forcing the content employees that you have to almost make it by themselves without him, if that makes sense.

[Julian]

Because still being, here's my question, Jack still being so big, so involved publicly, clearly the face of the brand and all that. He seems from the outside, even if there's some things where he's thinking about the future like that he seems like he is still driven to build, build, build, get this thing bigger. Get this thing bigger. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, by the way, but I'm curious like for a little lesser parallel here to like running the fucking country or whatever, what makes a guy like that, who's done more monetarily than or in his wildest dreams want to still have that drive to do that?

[Jack]

So I think it's two things. One, I may sound like a bootlicker, but I think he truly, he bought the company back. He said this publicly. He did say he was like, I just want to keep this company break even. We want to grow, of course, but we want to keep it break even. I think he actually cares about the people that he employs. He will call them names and everything. But he's New England, Boston. Like he's going to call you stuff. If he really hated you, he'd fire you, right? He'd get rid of you. And then also I think there's like, I mean he's a guy that always. He probably would have been doing what he's doing if it never really worked out the way that it did. And he makes all this money. What's he kind of. He may like kind of being front and center, but not that much. I don't know why does he do it? There may be a little bit of a. But also what do you do once you make all that money? Do you think you would stop? Let's say I give you $100 million now. I don't think you'd stop. Maybe you do one a week, but even. No, I don't even know. You strike me as somebody that would do it. It still two or three times a week. Maybe there's a little bit Better of a setup. And it's a little bit like you would have more options just because money is buying power, literally. But I think it's also. I think about. It's like, if you got this money, like, what would you do? I don't know. I mean, it kind of gets boring if you just.

[Julian]

Yeah, I'll never fully retire.

[Jack]

Exactly. You would get bored. I think about it and maybe. And he does, and I think he really likes the idea of, like, he can give back to people. He did that whole barstool fund thing. He loves to help individuals. That very sad stuff that happens with police firemen, when there's just awful things that happen on the job. And of course, there's a lot of things that happen all the time. He can't do it for every person, but he does that a lot. And so maybe I don't know what makes him tick. Yeah, I. I don't think it's an overall power desire dynamic because he's not hitting everybody up every day and being like, make sure you do this, make sure you do that. He kind of lets you run free.

[Julian]

That's cool.

[Jack]

Which is really cool. And especially from a creative point of view.

[Julian]

So let's bring it back to the politicians.

[Jack]

Did I go to the bathroom quickly?

[Julian]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

We'll be right back.

[Julian]

All right, we're back. So what I was going to ask you was you brought up the original point where we got on that tangent about, you know, Dave and how he looks at power. You brought up the point of, like, what is it for these politicians that they want to do it where they're still going to be bought off, but, like, there's something about the power that they. They love, even though they could get out of that and go make $5 million to go give a speech somewhere or whatever. So do you think it is a parallel on a way higher scale to, like, in a bad way in this case, to like Dave? Like, well, I just want to keep continuing. I built barstool, so I'll just keep continuing. It doesn't matter how much money I have. And they're like, well, I became a politician, so I'll just keep continuing. And that means I need to try to be this position instead of that position or get to the highest position.

[Jack]

Yeah. So maybe it's just that, that they continue to try to get to that next step, the next goal along the way. But yeah, it is a good point that maybe it's just them continuing and they've done it for so long and maybe They've done things. And this kind of goes to a lot of the other theories. It's like maybe they've done things along the way that they. I'm not saying this specifically about Kamala. I'm saying this just in general. Maybe they've done things along the way and maybe they can't stop. Maybe there's a little bit of a no, you're going to do this or else. And now what is that else? We expose this, we expose that. I mean, that kind of goes back to all of the blackmailing. And I'm sure that exists. And now my bigger question is how big is it?

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

And is it as big as kind of the. Is it not big or is it as big as the craziest thought about it is. Which in the middle. Which is still pretty damn big.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And this goes back. We talked about Kristi Noem's husband with the. The fake big boobs or whatever that he's into.

[Julian]

Whatever was going on there.

[Jack]

He had to tell Kristina and the FBI or maybe CIA before she started or maybe in the midst of it because they were saying they will use it like other countries will use this as blackmail. So we need to know about this.

[Julian]

Wait, he told them about it?

[Jack]

I think before it became public. If you look it up. He had to tell intelligence agencies because they could have used.

[Julian]

Back when she got the job.

[Jack]

Yes.

[Julian]

And they still gave her the job. No way.

[Jack]

I. I'm pretty sure that was in those articles. You could look it up like it's. It's there. I mean, I think the intelligence agencies were saying, hey, we need to know. They may have even found it and said, we need to know about this. Is it true? If it is, we need to be prepared for blackmail about it because that's how these. And where's that blackmail from? Who knows? Could be from our allies, could be from other people as well. You never know. Of course you never know.

[Julian]

That's the thing. There's no. There's no such thing, in my opinion as a full blown ally in any way is looking to one up everyone around the world. There's no such thing as that. Are there places that are certainly closer friends and friendly? Yeah, but we still all spy on each other.

[Jack]

Like here, Kiriko. How do you say Kiriaku? Kiriakou. He was talking about that too. And he's talked about it in a lot of interviews. It's. It's everywhere. And he was. I think he was referencing it. So when he worked with. I mean, he probably has the ultimate brain for this. But it's like when you work with spies, I mean, they're spying on you already. And even when you go and work with a specific agency that's supposed to be your, your friend, they're probably spying on you too. I mean, like, I'm sure Mossad knows everything about everything.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

And that's their job, though. And they're, you can hate them. They're really good at it.

[Julian]

They're the best in the world at it.

[Jack]

And that's probably why we allied up with them to an extent. I mean, that goes all the way back. I'm not the biggest expert on that, but I will say, I mean, like, we send them money because they probably give us stuff back.

[Julian]

Yeah. But they give us intelligence.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's what. Yeah.

[Julian]

To so many people who are like, they give us the intelligence that they want the intelligence to be so that we can go do the things that they can't do themselves. Which, by the way, let me be clear, I think the same way if I were them. But the fact, I think what has pissed off Americans more than ever is the fact that our people continually go along with, with that. And we're like, why is that interesting?

[Jack]

I think it's, it's really valuable to ask all those questions. Yeah, why is someone an ally? And then I mean, I even think, I mean, when I'm discussing and thinking about NATO and all of that, it's like we're paying all of this extra and we're doing all of this for kind of countries across Europe to exist in their own kind of fantasy world. And then we, if anything goes wrong for them, then we have to come in. And then we're also getting screwed on a lot of those deals. That makes sense to me in terms of why you'd be against it. But you have to ask those same questions about, in a military point of view as well. And I mean, the Middle East, I mean, we'll probably die without having answers about the Middle East.

[Julian]

And the other issue is that, you know, this isn't the 1980s, 1990s, America, we don't have a burgeoning middle class like we did back then. People are being left behind. This dystopian world has shown its fangs, especially over the last six, seven years, more than ever. And people are losing. They're getting apathetic and angry and jobs

[Jack]

are going to start going away.

[Julian]

That's right.

[Jack]

And specifically jobs of kind of those middle class. And that may. Doesn't really even exist anymore. But even more so, and that goes back to kind of, I was talking about AI from a content creation point of view. But the bigger question, like, what happens? I really don't know now is this going to be. And this is kind of the Gary Vee point of view. It's like, oh, there's always new technology. There's the radio. They freaked out about that. The Internet, the printing press, the line in the. Why am I blanking? Where they would. People used to have jobs working in car factory line, assembly line. Thank you. Like all these things that jobs have always come and go.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

But this one feels a little bit different if.

[Julian]

And that's. And to Gary V's point, that's what we say about everything. This one feels different. This is the new normal. The question is we've never created something that can actually outthink us and it's

[Jack]

only going to get smarter.

[Julian]

And it's only going to get smarter. Now let's go back to what you were saying earlier about when you were talking with the Meta AI guy because this is fascinating to me now.

[Jack]

I just want to make it clear that wasn't a guy that worked. Worked at Meta. It was a. Another influencer there.

[Julian]

Got it.

[Jack]

But they, they were. But I didn't hear that from a Meta AI specific person. I just want to make that clear.

[Julian]

But this is someone that you would characterize as being very much in that space, understanding. Okay. So I think there's something to be said about commoditized content to where let's say you're someone who's not necessarily like a personality, you're just a here's how to do this or whatever content. And there's nothing particularly special or charismatic about you that draws people to. In like an artistic communication way. Yeah, you're in trouble. You're in deep trouble with AI. But I do think, and I don't think this is the bias of my industry and, and being in this, I've thought about this a lot over the past five, six, seven years. I do think the actual substantive communication, which has a whole range to it topics all, all different subcategories and stuff like that, but things where people need to feel like there's that. That thing where it's a person and they can relate to them and it's what it is. While there will be some AI that I think is so good that when people first hear it, they could get tricked, I think that the, the veil of companies also revealing what is AI, which is going to be important to legislate like YouTube will have to say this channel's AI or Facebook will have to say this, this page is AI and stuff like that. Once we. As long as we have those guardrails set up, I think once people know that, like, let's say they're listening to a show talking about current events or a guy telling his story or something, once people inherently know that it's not a human talking, they're not going to get into it. That's why that Drake and the Weekend AI song, that was fire, when you first, like hear the first bars of it, that came out a year and a half ago. No one listens to that because it's A.I.

[Jack]

i know, but like that one of the top Spotify country songs recently.

[Julian]

But did it. What happened when it got revealed to be A.I. i don't know.

[Jack]

I don't know. And so I just. My response to that, even though I think I agree probably 90%, is what happens when it gets too good. And also what you just said, and I actually agree with what you were saying, but you're talking about Congress. You're talking like, we can't rely on those people to make the right calls on AI they fucked up everything else. How are they going to be the ones that put the guardrails now? It's kind of. It's really kind of scary. But also, I mean, the big, the big people here are Elon Zuck, TikTok's, its own thing with China, and now it's in America. But it's like, that's Oracle now.

[Julian]

And then.

[Jack]

And you could talk. Yeah, then. And then. I mean, who knows? Maybe these are all. These are the people that really will control it. And how good will they be at

[Julian]

identifying AI and that's also a real concern, too, because it's like at some point, Donald Trump represented the outsider to places and people, just like many of those people you just mentioned. And now term two, right from day one, they're on the deus at the inauguration, and then the next day they're rolling out AI with Larry Ellison, Altman.

[Jack]

Altman.

[Julian]

Like, what is that, man?

[Jack]

And then, I mean, obviously Elon's involved, and then like, Elon and Altman are kind of going back and forth between. But that could even be fake. Just. I mean, it could really be fake. Just. They're just showing. Oh, there's different.

[Julian]

Thought they used to like each other like a decade ago.

[Jack]

And they. Those are two guys that probably could like each other tomorrow. It's the same thing with Elon and Trump. They get they go back and forth. One time. One day, Elon saying that Trump can't is on. Is that's why he's not releasing them. He's on the Epstein list. And the next or two months later, he's at Mar a Lago. Right. They're almost. But here's the thing. Is that calculated or is everyone just running around with their heads cut off? I don't know.

[Julian]

Question man. What if it is reality TV versus what if it is really just a clown show?

[Jack]

I think a lot. I think that it may be both. But even thinking about. You said reality tv. Of course, I go back. I mean, that's Trump's bread and butter. And that's why when I said earlier, it's like Trump. The thought process behind Trump and everything in that. In that administration is if people freak out about something, it doesn't matter. We go on to the next day. You just keep going.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

You literally. It won't matter. And it may matter, but it's more. So their philosophy is, we don't care, we continue on. That's kind of Trump's entire thing. And you kind of see that from what he wrote in his books and everything, where he's just, oh, I don't care. I just keep going.

[Julian]

He learned, like, he really took what Roy Cohn told him to harden. You never admit defeat.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You always change the. What are the three things.

[Jack]

It's like, admit nothing, deny everything, and keep going. He doesn't, basically. Yeah, but he doesn't. He doesn't care. He just laughs it off. Or he's like, oh, you're wrong. And then attacks the media member and then just keeps going. But here's the thing. How many media members. Attack, attack, attack. And then. And then he just continues on.

[Julian]

Yep. Attack, attack, attack. Admit nothing, deny everything, claim victory, never admit defeat.

[Jack]

What does that sound? And then. And also Trumpian move is make everything worse and then make it a percent better and then say, look, we won, we won. Exactly.

[Julian]

We got the straight of Hormuz open for an hour. Yeah, it was totally open, fucking for free two months ago.

[Jack]

No, I know, I know now, but here's the thing. What Trump will say will be, well, now look at the American oil. Like we're going to produce more here. Now, was that his goal and thought process when he did it?

[Julian]

Or

[Jack]

it's also kind of like in a weird way, and even Democrats will admit to this. Trump somehow always comes out on top. This feels like it may be over, like the run may be over, but he just but think about it. Like, January 6th happened. He denied every election result. He won the election. Four years later, he came out on top.

[Julian]

I mean, what happened two days after January 6? 6.

[Jack]

On January 8.

[Julian]

Forget. Forget all the controversy over whatever happened.

[Jack]

Okay, yeah.

[Julian]

January 6th.

[Jack]

Just ignore. Yeah. No, no. What happened on January?

[Julian]

Remember when it was there?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Right. And it was like, oh, this is bad. He was. He was castrated on January 7th. He was like.

[Jack]

Even.

[Julian]

Like, his hardest core supporters are like, all right, I can't just. All right, whatever. Like, two weeks. Whatever. January 8th, he got kicked off the Internet everywhere. And they immediately made him an underdog. Immediately. They made him the guy who was being attacked. And he got to say, look what they're doing. They're doing it to the sitting president. What do you think they can do to you? Then a year and a half later, they raid his wife's panty drawers and charge him with all these crazy fucking charges. Then he almost gets his head blown off. And they kept it. Got to the point where people were like, yo, this motherfucker.

[Jack]

And then he has a mug shot. Yeah. And people wear it on a shirt. But that's the point of what I was trying to say. It's like, we just win. And it's almost luck. But it's just. There's. I. I was talking with my friends. I was. And people. It's. There was, It's, I think, a Jewish saying. There's just like a North Star of sorts, where it's just like. No, it just works out. And it's in, like, the tour or whatever. And I. There's. And it's in every culture, too, but. But I forget the term, but Trump kind of has that, where it's just kind of. And then also, like, Dave Portnoy gets the company back for a dollar.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

And it's like he finds the caller. Daddy.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And then. But Trump. And then, like, oh, people attacked Dave. But then he just keeps going, what are you gonna do? And then you find the next.

[Julian]

Yeah. Defunding. Cam Zulatova. This phrase is rooted in Jewish tradition, specifically with the sage nachem and ish gamzu.

[Jack]

There we go.

[Julian]

Used it to mean that even in a situation that appears negative, a greater good or spiritual lesson will ultimate, ultimately emerge. Which there's something to be said for that, too, like, in a serious way. Like, you know, there's a.

[Jack]

There's something viral on Twitter right now. It's like the placebo effect of sleep.

[Julian]

Yes. Tell yourself you slept well. Suddenly you feel like you did.

[Jack]

And then like, there's just kind of. I mean, this is kind of. This goes back to. It's maxing. Like, I mean, and I mean no disrespect to anybody that. But, But Max, is the idea of like, no, I'm gonna win. It's like, I. I guess the better term is delusional maxing. But it's like obviously if you're. If your leg, if you got shot in the leg, you can't delusional your way through it, but it's right next. Oh, who cares?

[Julian]

The power.

[Jack]

You're freaking out. I don't know.

[Julian]

Our belief is real though.

[Jack]

It's insane. I mean, that's probably. That's something that. Yeah. And that goes beyond religion. Like. Or it is religion, but it's the way. You know, we've had religious wars forever. But it's the power of. And that's what. Yeah, but the power of. And that's what. And this is kind of more of on the crazy side. It's like, why do you think they gave people all those wearable, like trackers? Because when it, when you. I'm not saying it's fake, but it's like you see that you slept shitty, then you slept shitty. But if you just like, oh no, I don't sleep bad. And you just keep going.

[Julian]

I shit you not. Because you're referring to that tweet I saw. The same tweet.

[Jack]

Yeah. People were talking about what they like, the whoop. The. Which are great companies, but. But yeah. Or the aura ring.

[Julian]

Well, no, no, the first one you mentioned about the placebo. The placebo effect. Like, I didn't sleep very well last night cuz I went to bed late and I. You not on my walk. I. I'm very routine. I have the same exact routine in the morning. It's the one part of my day I control. And on my walk to the gym, I just told myself, I said I feel great. I slept great last night and I had a really good workout this morning.

[Jack]

There you go.

[Julian]

I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Jack]

And also the human. The one thing I remind myself. The human body is insane.

[Julian]

Yes, it is.

[Jack]

It's the. That like AI can't replicate it. It's like. It's truly like the human body. Think about all that's been through for forever.

[Julian]

You know, it's funny you say that, because I was the what.

[Jack]

What got me. Now, obviously there's things that happen and it's not. This is. We're all talking within reason yeah, like you can't delusional max your way through cancer, but you may, you may be able to really think positively, but you should. You go to the doctor, all that. But the little thing like sleeping and then also kind of this idea where it's like when things go bad, it's like, oh, who cares now that's really hard to do. But the ones that have perfected it, Trump's probably one of them.

[Julian]

Yes, I, I do think no matter what, there's something to be said for that. He really, he has a delusional and I wouldn't even call it a positive self. Self belief. He's always negative in how he talks. But like for himself and for winning, he has a delusional positive belief and reinforcement. And when you repeatedly use words like tremendous, terrific, amazing. We went above and beyond. We won like never before. Many people were saying it. Many, many people.

[Jack]

You start to greatest economy ever.

[Julian]

Yeah. You start to see it now that has a lot of negative effects.

[Jack]

Yes. But yes.

[Julian]

He's like, he buys it.

[Jack]

Oh, he buys it to his deathbed. And I mean even like in theory, I mean, not to say, I mean we just saw what happened with Eric Swalwell. Romp had very similar things too. Now that. But Trump just continued on. Yeah, Swalwell's dead. Not dead dead, but he's. Maybe he'll pop up on like MSNBC eventually.

[Julian]

But that was a hell of a fucking. He had a Diddy esque apology video or whatever that was. It's like, all right, let's sit in the hotel room. Let's make sure we're in front of the hotel blinds, which is totally not where they film pornos. And by the way, don't wear a tie. Open up your shirt, act like you just. And you're finishing to talk about why you didn't sexually assault.

[Jack]

Craziest part about him is I think the. That stuff where that's obviously not good. What happened with all the. His staffers and all that. That man dated a Chinese spy for multiple years.

[Julian]

Oh yeah, Fang. That's while he was on the intelligence committee for a long time. That's right after.

[Jack]

And how often like that may be happening without us even knowing. You do have to think I'm not here.

[Julian]

That shit happens.

[Jack]

The honeypot stuff. Oh my God.

[Julian]

All the time.

[Jack]

And let's be real. I mean there's like a lot of people that come from a lot of these countries that they could find like a very attractive woman. Send them over. I would assume. How many honey pots happen in D.C.

[Julian]

dude, I hate to say this. I hate to be this guy. I think about it. Oh, for myself.

[Jack]

Oh, 100. I think you should. 100. I think about it for myself too. And you have to think about it just from a. Like. And I think there was a article written probably months ago as how it happens a lot in San Francisco. And because they want to get the technology. There was someone that worked. I don't know if it was Oracle, one of those top tier ones. There was a woman that he married that was a Russian spy. He was with her for 25 years.

[Julian]

Oh, if I could tell you some stories.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But that's probably. And that's public. There's probably like, think about it.

[Julian]

There's a lot of that.

[Jack]

And, and they won't even. Yeah, that's the spy inside. The spy who married a techie inside. The rise of sex warfare in Silicon Valley.

[Julian]

Chinese and Russian operatives are reportedly using attractive women to infiltrate tech companies, seduce employees, and, and steal trade secrets.

[Jack]

And obviously this has been happening forever. I mean, how long have operatives used attractive women? Forever, probably. That's because that's the number one weakness of, of powerful men. I mean, in men in general, it's

[Julian]

like, dude, I, I. And I, I hate myself for even. It's an. It feels like a, I feel guilty and it's like an impure thought.

[Jack]

I think when I look through something like an ego thing too. It's like, why would anyone want. But I, especially you, dude, you have an influence that is. And you probably don't even think about it because you're.

[Julian]

I don't think about it.

[Jack]

You're in this studio, you're. And you're just like, oh, we did the podcast that did well, nice. We did the next one. I mean, I really mean this. From a true point, the impact that you have is very dangerous to a status quo that already exists. Now, there's a lot of you, but not really. I know you think there's a lot of you, but not really. But you know how insane it is to be able to post a video with a random homeschool. Like, I was advocating for homeschooling. And it gets hundreds of thousands of views and then that doesn't include clips. People would pay. Brands would pay for that impact and people that really want the impact. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for each one. But you don't think about it because you're in the studio in Hoboken, New Jersey.

[Julian]

No, no, dude, you, you know what I mean? I'm nailing it.

[Jack]

Yeah, you're like, just like. And you wake up, you go to the gym.

[Julian]

I talk about it all the time. Like I'm. I'm an extremely private person. I keep it. Which is so ironic because like you people get to know me doing this. Like they, they just do. Because I'm talking with people of all different backgrounds for three hours at a time multiple times a week. And like they get to know who you are and that is a nature of it. But like there's this and then there's my life and what it's been since day one when I had zero followers six years ago in my parents house. And press the upload button is the same it is today. We're recording this. Not live right now. No one knows you're here. We're chilling in fucking Hoboken. And later I'm gonna hit this magical button that says upload. And five days later I'm gonna get back and be like, wow, people watched that.

[Jack]

People watched it. And then people are going. And people will clip it and people will put it up and you'll put up on your own pages and then think about it. You're talking to people all over the world right away. So I mean. And that's something that people need.

[Julian]

The impact thinking about that.

[Jack]

I know, I know.

[Julian]

It's like, like it re. Like it's a thought. When I go through some of these, especially when they're like a 12, I'm like, yeah.

[Jack]

And then also do you think like, do you, do you ever. And I, I think I've heard you discuss this. Are you ever thinking about that from like who you invite on?

[Julian]

Yes. And people don't see what happens behind the scenes now with us talking about people coming on. I hate that we have to have these conversations, but I got some stories for you, man.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly. And you know, and then also you've. I think people trust you. So you probably have gotten a lot of stuff and they know, they've told you things and they've never gotten out. So that helps. Yeah, but I mean you've talked to so many people and like how many people? And then there's the, the chances are. I mean, and this isn't. We didn't talk about Joe Rogan forever, but people were posting. They were like, oh, look at all these people that were in the Epstein files that were on Rogan.

[Julian]

It's not fair to him.

[Jack]

That's not fair.

[Julian]

It's not fair to him.

[Jack]

Also, he did say no to Jeff. That's a crazy story that. That one guy wanted him on, but he's had, like, over a thousand episodes.

[Julian]

It's the only one where I was like, and who the fuck am I to talk? Right? I'm a huge believer in not doing Stones from Glass Houses, but when he had on Peter Thiel last year, and this is before the Epstein stuff came out and all that, but I was. I was like. Like, I don't know about that one. Like, I feel like that's going to bite you in the ass. But he also, as. From what I understand, like, he put that off for a long time and then finally was like, it. Like, all it takes is being like it one day, and you do it.

[Jack]

I know.

[Julian]

And then it's done.

[Jack]

But you.

[Julian]

I've done that.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly.

[Julian]

With people that no one's ever heard of.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly.

[Julian]

Exactly. You know, So I think people. And. And. And it's so strange. People love to just rip apart Rogan for every decision he makes now. And I'm like, none of this exists without him.

[Jack]

I know, I know.

[Julian]

Where were you when he was getting attacked by the whole machine three years ago? Who were you?

[Jack]

I know.

[Julian]

You know, it's so. Listen, he's not perfect, but no one's perfect.

[Jack]

I think it's a great point of view. He hits upload, and then he just goes about his day.

[Julian]

I don't know. Look, I don't know him at all. I've never talked to him in my life. Obviously, I have 60 friends in common with him. I don't know that it's that simple anymore, unfortunately, because he's been so viciously attacked again and again. But from everything I hear, the nonchalance of the actual recording is like. Just like. It was like he walks in, hey, ready to go? Like, let's go, let's go. You know, and that's. That is the most important part. It's a matter of I. I think what happens. And it's not just like in podcasting or whatever. I think it's in anything when something starts and it's just pure. And there's not. And there's not people yelling at you or whatever. There's this. There's a special upstart nature to it, and then eventually it gets bigger, and it's not your fault, but it gets tentacles and it gets all these, you know, hard stops at three emails and like that. And I don't think he's gotten that big. But with anything, you lose at some point, like some of the luster and the specialness, because you're thinking about bullshit. And that's something I always try to pull back here because I'm like, yo, six years in, this is just like, it was day one. I have to think a little bit more about some people that come on. But, like, I'm still. You know, I put on a shirt about 60 seconds before you got here today. You know, that's. That's not even normal for me. I'm like this dude that just rolls out of his apartment and talks with me. People. And I'm always saying, we got to keep this purity, however this is. And if that means that I still have to. Like, I do all the thumbnails, right? If that means I still have to be doing that three years from now because we retain the purity, it. I'll do it.

[Jack]

Yeah, the purity is definitely something that. Yeah. And once it grows even more, then it really gets out of control, because then it's like, I have these people that are working for me, and it's like, that's probably a question you got to really think about as an owner. It's like, I have to make these decisions that. That, for me, I'm fine with the risk. But there's people. There's 10, 15, 20 people that work for me, and then you don't want to screw them over. Now. It's a lot easier when it's people that, you know, are.

[Julian]

Yeah, I got my best friends working.

[Jack]

Exactly. And it's like, they're on. You guys are all on the same page.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

But once it becomes so big, you have to make these calls that are really, really difficult.

[Julian]

I would assume that's also something Rogan's done an amazing job with. He doesn't have a huge team. He doesn't have a huge team. I think the part that probably sucks for him is, like, all the security that he has to do. And, like, that. That's different. But, like, you know, you see all these other podcasts, they got 40 people with headsets. When you walk up to it, it's like, that's not what this space was. If I ever do that, put back my.

[Jack]

No figured.

[Julian]

If not literal YouTube, don't demonetize me for.

[Jack]

No. Yeah. No. You go to some of these places, and there's. There's, like, they have, like, 15 editors now. I get it. It's great. It's good for the economy. It's good for the people that are doing it. But, yeah, it's. It's. And they're. They're really on every single word that you Say I walked in here, you. You set up the cameras yourself. You were adjusting them. It's very simple. You go to the bathroom when you have to go to the bathroom. It's a very chill atmosphere. There's some that you go to. It's because these businesses, these companies, they've seen what the power of the spoken word, the media holds and new media, and they need to get involved. I mean, look, OpenAI paid how much money for TBPN, which is the.

[Julian]

Yeah, tell people about that.

[Jack]

So TBPN is kind of think of if the tech world had a sports center and they started a year ago,

[Julian]

what they get like 200 million.

[Jack]

Yeah. Now, I was a little bit surprised by the number, knowing how I. Now, I don't want to sound like I'm hating in on them. What am I doing wrong?

[Julian]

What am I doing wrong?

[Jack]

And I was even. I hit up. And I hit up my agent. I was like, what the fuck? I was like, did I just do everything wrong? And he was like, well, Open AI probably pay. Overpaid a little bit. And then also little. And then also, here's the thing. I think OpenAI could put a billion dollars in front of you. I think you'd say no.

[Julian]

I'd say no.

[Jack]

Yeah. I don't think you want to do

[Julian]

it because I'm an idiot. I'm genuinely.

[Jack]

Well, that's another thing where that is. Is it better to just play the game to the. To the max degree? But if you don't want to, then here's the thing. I think you would lose a lot of fans.

[Julian]

I would lose everyone. And they. They would know I sold out, and I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Julian]

So that's the most important thing to me.

[Jack]

So then why does it matter now? Obviously, you want money, but you're gonna make money.

[Julian]

Yeah, I say that as a joke, but it's also like they're valuing. And no disrespect to these guys, but they're valuing them. You know, at 7,000 views an episode, at $200 million, what the fuck are you and me with?

[Jack]

So. So that's what I was gonna say. And I'm not even them in any way, because I really think I hate when you see other content people hate on other content people, because it's like they're all doing their own thing. Everything is valued different ways. And also, maybe they have this grandiose plan. I look at that and I see the views that you do on every single podcast episode. So that but that would throw the entire thing out of whack. But here's the thing. A lot of people aren't going to say yes to open AI, you know,

[Julian]

and that's another thing. Pretend it was an open AI. But though, like, I'm a big believer in what have people done versus what do they say. And it takes time. You got to, you know, you come out into the world, you got to develop a reputation, and that is the only thing you die with and you're still forgotten about a week later.

[Jack]

But, like, it's so sad. We were just talking about Kobe and Kobe gets talked about, but like, not like, you should. I mean, that guy's like one of the most. And you can. You can discuss Kobe in a lot of different ways. But yeah, I mean, there's people that die. And like, you could die now and the president could tweet about you and say, I'm glad you're fucking dead. Like, think about that. But think about that now. That's Trump. But just in general, people die. That's the sad. That's probably one thing I try to work on a lot. It's like, you shouldn't be. You should be okay with your morality. But yeah, no, that. I remember when I was five years old, I remembered. I remember thinking about, like, what happens when you die? And it's never left me.

[Julian]

What do you mean it's never left you?

[Jack]

Like, I always think about that. Not always. That's the wrong way to say it, but I remember I was like 5 years old and I remember.

[Julian]

I.

[Jack]

Like, it wasn't. I just. I. Maybe I cried out. I remember asking my mom, like, what happens when you die?

[Julian]

What she said.

[Jack]

She was like, oh, your grandma is in heaven and that's what happens. And like, that's what's going to. And if you. If you're a good person. I was five, but I've always thought it's just kind of death in general. I'm always thinking about like, your morality. It's like, damn. And what? This place goes on forever? What happens after that? It gives me anxiety in a way that's I can operate with. It's not like a deathly anxiety, but it's. It's something that's probably been in humans forever. Like that kind of like knot in your stomach where you're like, wait, what happens after this? But the people that I envy the most are the guys that like modern day people that just don't care. The guy that goes into the boxing ring or an MMA cage says, It, I don't care. I'm gonna go, right? I'm gonna go fight. And yeah, I could really, like something really awful could happen. Lock that cage. It's me and another man and we're gonna fight until the end. Now, obviously there's a ref, there's rules, but those are the people that I look at. I'm like, holy. Those are guys that don't give a. Yeah. You have to have like a certain thing within inside of you that's just. And I'm talking even people that do it. Not even like, oh, you can talk about Ilya Toporia, you could talk about Terence Crawford, you could talk about Floyd Mayweather, but I'm talking even people that kind of just do it to do it to do it.

[Julian]

Yeah, everyone's wired differently. And I. There's two things I always remind myself because I want to take a step back for a second and go back to a question you asked a minute ago. But like, number one, I've only ever lived between my two ears. I can psychologically look at data and see how other people think, but I can never fully know how each individual. Individual things. And number two, and this, this is why I want to go back to your question. One thing I always say is people. And sometimes I get caught doing it too. And I just did people throw around the term. If I were blank, then I would blank about very serious things all the time. And the fact of the matter is you never fully know until you're faced with your decision. So no one has ever put anywhere near a billion dollars in front of me, to be very clear.

[Jack]

Okay. Yeah.

[Julian]

What I can say though, though, is that I have had a lot of money and default test to this Alessio test this. I've had a lot of money put in front of me from people and I have instantaneously said no because I. Whatever that thing is. And maybe that's why I'm not well capitalized. Maybe that's why I don't own a house. Maybe that's why I haven't made nearly as much money on the show as I have. But that thing that exists in people to wear like the ultimate scorecard is how much money they're making at all times. I don't have that. I never have. I am a fulfillment guy. I am a guy that when I go to bed at night, if I look in the mirror, I'm like, do I enjoy what I do? Like, I think Gary Vee used to have a term about this. There's people who are Romantic about how they make money. And he wasn't necessarily complimentarily complimentary in saying that. But I realized early on, you know what? I am romantic about how I make money. I only want to make money on things that I really actually value and things that make me feel. Feel good. And if that makes me weaker than other people and being able to move forward with a bank account like other people can and I can't, I'm fine with that.

[Jack]

Yeah. I also think. And this is probably something. And, and this is what friends tell me. My parents tell me they're very supportive. They're great. I feel like that's one of the luckiest things you can ever have is like really supportive parents or even just one. But both of mine, I, I just lucked out. I won the lottery with that too. Is. And this is what I'm going to tell you. Like, the impact you have is like, I mean, I know you don't believe this. It's otherworldly. You're probably of. I mean, it's tough to say, but of people in media. Like, I mean, I. There's not a lot of people doing what you're doing. I think you think of it. I know, but like, I really, truly mean that. It's like, I mean, you're. We could pull up your numbers, but like having consistently six figure, seven figure views on podcasting episodes, just on YouTube, we don't see the audio numbers. We don't have that publicly. But like, then you add those up and you can like calculate. You think about it. That's an impact that like, you can't, you can put a monetary value on it, but it's, it's you, you. I don't think that really matters for you. And you may even have a reputation because I know how all these places work. Every fucking talent agency in the world knows who you are. Far every uta, caa, wme, but in every company, not every company, because marking these people like. And that's another discussion for another time where it's like, who runs marketing? That's another discussion for another time. But these people know. But they also probably know. It's like, oh, he doesn't want to do it. They know.

[Julian]

Like, that's so strange.

[Jack]

But like, drew, like.

[Julian]

And then they're like, I'm at W. I've been at WME for a long time. I love my agent. He's great.

[Jack]

Yeah. But like, those are people that, that there's even. Because then we get to the discussion of. And this kind of goes back to Peter Thiel. It's like they've always tried to have those types of people in their back pockets. And you go. And this goes to J.D. vance. And then it goes into, it's like, oh, when did he start to have a connection with this person that turns out to be. What's Peter Thiel Top 10 most powerful person in the world. If we had to guess publicly.

[Julian]

That we know of.

[Jack]

That we know of. Yeah. How big is. And then it's. But how do they get these new people? And that's where I don't know.

[Julian]

That's. That's a great question, man. And that, because they would start these

[Jack]

and it's always interesting when I hear it. It's like they would run these newspapers in these college towns and they would like Peter Teal or they would invest in them and they would, and they would find. And there was other people, there was people. This is how they would find specific political people. I forget the name. They would invest heavily and these are people that would kind of be hand selected to be the next because they see how they write and like there are people, people underneath these powerful people reading all these. And they would find, yeah, is this it?

[Julian]

Thief.

[Jack]

Yes. The Stanford Review.

[Julian]

In 1987, Teal Co founded the Stanford Review, a conservative and libertarian student newspaper at Stan University. Ongoing support. Teal has maintained relationship with the paper for over 35 years, providing financial donations and acting as a mentor to staff.

[Jack]

And Peter Thiel is not unique in this. There's people that throughout specifically this is how like Rhinos kind of worked with within like the Republican Party where it's. They would find these people that are politically active in college and then obviously if they're writing for the right wing newspaper within the college or the Review, whatever it is, then they would find and see who they thought was really talented and then they would kind of take them under their wing. They would get a really good job. They would get not even a really good job. They would say, hey, you want to come work for us? And then this person who has these grandiose ideas in college gets told we want to help you run for somewhere in a small district. And then before you fucking know it, you're a senator. And they come back and say, hey, remember me? Or hey, hey, we've been with you the whole time. This needs to get through. And then along the way, if you're thinking really crazy, I mean think about all the things that we've done as like throughout my 20s to 29, oh,

[Julian]

everyone can get, got, get Got in a way.

[Jack]

And like, get gotten away is just like even just a conversation you had at the bar with your buddies that you didn't really mean or anything thing you get. God, you get caught. So. And then it's this search. And Peter Thiel's not unique in this. I'm sure somebody will point it out in the comments. There's other people that have been doing this for a while, I think. I forget the name, but there's people. If you can tie back a lot of politicians. And this is kind of the chicken or the egg, because if you're writing for a public or for a newspaper in college, you're probably likely to get involved in politics. But they also kind of like, they're always keeping an eye on it. And then I wouldn't be surprised now if they're always keeping an eye on people that are making videos that are. That's the new newspaper. They find the 18, 19 year old and they say, hey, yeah, you're taking

[Julian]

the words on, right? Deep, chisetic, clavicular.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Julian]

Funding him.

[Jack]

Well, I. So I interviewed him.

[Julian]

You did?

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

What's he like?

[Jack]

Really neurodivergent.

[Julian]

No shit, Sherlock.

[Jack]

You know what's crazy? He went to Seton Hall Prep. Yeah, he did. Hoboken.

[Julian]

Yeah. I think I know some kids who went to school with him.

[Jack]

I don't know if anyone's funding him now. He did just open a club with people that are like a little bit more like on like a Jewish mafia side.

[Julian]

A little bit of Israeli Mafia.

[Jack]

Israeli mafia side, which I've heard some things that aren't great.

[Julian]

Like what?

[Jack]

I just think it was more so. So I. Not that I heard it specifically, but it was more like, look them up. Like, here, I could get the name.

[Julian]

When did you interview him?

[Jack]

Right before he shot that alligator. He told me, like, tiptoe maxing and tiptoe maxing. Wait, let me find.

[Julian]

Oh, my God.

[Jack]

So I.

[Julian]

What. What did Channel 5 report? Thief.

[Jack]

Yeah, so I was that more of like a conspiratorial type video. Like, I think they were a little bit more of a. So that's always been the thought. Where is.

[Julian]

There's like a guy like Uncle T or something like that who gives him all these donations.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And. And here's where the thought is. Peter Thiel talks about, like, transcending, which is dangerously close to ascending the human race and creating like a second digital race and basically like promoting transhumanism ideas and whatever. And I'm just saying here, Jack Mack, if I Wanted to hack culture to create that I would convince an entire generation of men that they got to take 60 million drugs and looks max and not reproduce and castrate themselves themselves into perpetuity, whatever it is, you know, just to try to keep up with the Joneses and create that standard. I mean when you listen, I, I actually feel as much as I joke about it and whatever with, with clavicular, I, I empathize with the kid and more specifically like I, I feel. I don't know if this is the right word but like pity for him, you know, because he's been, he clearly is very neurodivergent as you said. So he's got, he's. And I think he was a non verbal autistic for a couple years when he was, when he was a child. So like he has some actual rooted health issues and society was able to torture him in such a way that he feels like this is the only way to be able to exist among people. And unfortunately at age 20 he doesn't have. He's just out there trying to make money and doing his thing. He doesn't understand what he's being used for for in my opinion. And there's people who would be like he knows damn. Always do maybe. But like I think he's just a really dumb young kid and he's been just thrown into this spotlight out of nowhere and I, I feel bad for him.

[Jack]

Yeah. So he was. He's a smart guy. As a lot of nerd aversion people are. He knows. I would say like if you IQ tested him it would be very high.

[Julian]

You know he's from Hoboken. Yeah.

[Jack]

And I think he's just, I mean it's a great question. I mean and you have to think about it. We're talking about all of these newspapers and college newspapers and I was telling like, oh, they found that's JD Vance and all that. Yeah. They probably are doing with tiktoking too. I mean but here's the thing with Clav. I've known about him for a while.

[Julian]

When did you first find out about him?

[Jack]

Two summers ago.

[Julian]

And for people out there, a lot of people listening do know who he is because he's been astroturfed all over the Internet. But for people out there who don't know who he is is and what his thing is. Can you give a full context on.

[Jack]

So clavicular has risen to fame recently for specifically streaming and being a looks maxer. And also the looks maxing is essentially the. If you're A looks maxer and you're a guy. It's. And it's just essentially just trying to become better looking. But he uses very aggressive techniques. So that would be, that would be like hammering your face to try to break small bones within it and then it regrows and gives you better cheekbones and. Which is all feature.

[Julian]

That's apparently pseudoscience.

[Jack]

Yeah, that may be. I don't know if this is. I, I do not. I'm not endorsing this, but this is a guy that's like, yeah, like, I think he took like hgh, like, like steroids when he was younger. I don't know if that's confirmed, but this is like what, what a lot of the looks maxing community is saying. And then you are. Especially when you're younger, it's the chance to really, like, you can do things that you. Because your body is morphing into what it's going to be. So you can be a lot more aggressive. You can't. His thing. I don't know if this is true, but you can't get taller once your growth plates close, of course. But you can be a little bit more aggressive when you're younger. He says. And like also you can be aggressive with all these drugs, but also so you can really fuck up your endocrine system and it can be really, really bad. Now he's risen because he's kind of funny in his own way. He has this weird way of talking, which is terms like jester, which is just clown gooning, which was already pretty popular. But like jester maxing looks maxing. And he adds maxing to the end. Like, we're podcast maxing right now. He went up to a girl once on Stream when he was having a party party and she was sitting alone. He's like, oh, are you okay? You're alone maxing right now. But he says it. And so I was talking to him. I was like, don't you find the comedy in this? He was like, no, anyone that thinks that's funny is retarded. And I was like. And I, I. And I was like, I. And I was like, I don't want to be disrespectful to you. I was like, do you really mean. It's like, no, I think that's just how I talk. And anyone that thinks it's funny is, is just wrong. That's just how I talk talk. And I don't. And he says, I don't get why people clip it. And it gets hundreds of millions of views and all of this, but also this is a guy that, that's why he's popular and he's. And I've said, do you think you've created kind of. Because his whole thing. I, I asked him. It was very apparent. You and I are having a conversation right now. We take joy in this conversation. I was like, it feels like you don't take joy in anything. And he said, he's like, yeah, that's just how I'm wired. And then I said, what gives you joy? And this is crazy. But he said, without. And within a second he said, meth. And he, he. I was like, are you. Do you still take meth? And he's like, no, not anymore. But I was like, but that's what fires you up. He's like, that's what fires me up. And I was like, what about helping looks Max? He's like, yeah, but no one really wants to do that anymore. And I said, well, do you think you've kind of created this community that doesn't really value anymore? He's like, yeah, that's definitely a possibility. Just because he has such a big. I mean, this looks like this is a very. This should be a very small community.00001% of the Internet now. What are the effects of this?

[Julian]

Dude, I. And that's the thing. I was so fucking stupid when I was 20 years old. I was stupid when I was 25.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Julian]

You know, so I have always felt bad for these kids at any level of attention when they're thrown into the spotlight and then they have to look stupid in front of the world, and then maybe they convince everyone else to be stupid too. So that's why I empathize with him. But like, what, you know, he's 20 now, but he was starting this stuff when he was as, as far as I've seen, like when he's like 16, where, where the. Were his parents? You know, your kids in the bathroom. Your neurodivergent kid, by the way, is in the bathroom hammering his face. I remember I saw clips of him talking about his mom would, like, try to take away his hammer.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But like, clearly something's off here. Maybe get some help.

[Jack]

Well, they took him, they took away his passports too, because he wanted to go to Turkey to get double jaw surgery. And double jaw surgery, for those that don't know, would be to like accentuate. But here's the thing. If you, if you look up this kid, I mean, the kid is a good looking guy already, but he says there's are. You know how, bro, he's on 12 milligrams of reticide.

[Julian]

Of what?

[Jack]

Retta. It's a peptide. What does this one do? It's like, you know how GLP1s. It works on one receptor. Then there's like, not Manjaro, there's another one that works on two receptors. Retta works on three, but it's a peptide. Is not approved by the fda. You get it from China or Mexico. Co it's gonna. My prediction is someone may be watching this by the time that it gets approved. Because these pharmaceutical companies like hims, like Lily, all of them, they're. They see, bro, if you look up Google Trends, Retta gets searched like no other people are obsessed with it. So that means they want that to come in. RFK Jr. Has talked about it on Rogan, saying that he's going to get some of them in. This is all the peptide Crazy. But here's the thing about Clav. Clap's been around. Clav was a part of this weird thing on the Internet called the cookieverse.

[Julian]

Cookieverse.

[Jack]

So this is when I get very. Just like, this is Cookie. So there was this weird.

[Julian]

That's why you're here, Jack, man. Keep cooking.

[Jack]

Yeah. So there's this guy, and he's still popular online. You can look him up. His name's Cookie king. Big on TikTok, specifically for kids, probably 14 to maybe 21. But usually, like, a lot of his fans were very young. And his name's Cookie King. And he created this cookieverse where he had a lot of people that he would just. He posts like 20, 25 times a day. And a lot of them, these cookieverses, he meets all these people. Clav was a part of it. Here's. Here's Cookie King.

[Julian]

This is real.

[Jack]

And you know Santa Cruz Medicinals.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

He does this locked in. And he's tried to help. He, I would say, is a great guy who's older. That's not the Peter Thiel he's helping. Truly. He's like, guys, just go to the gym. You don't have to take all these crazy things. Your hormones are through the fucking roof already. Just go to the gym. You're 18. You can put on all the muscle in the world. And he does these locked in events. And he did it with Cookie King once. And he did it and Clav was there. And this was this past summer. That's when I really got and saw Clav for the first time. Beyond just kind of some random videos, but looksmaxing Became very popular on TikTok in 2022-2023. And then clav was kind of doing that and he was already big. There was these forums that exist. And then he did it on TikTok and then he kind of. He is what he is now, but he's been around. Do I think he was funded? My guess is no. But nothing would surprise me.

[Julian]

That's what I'm saying, dude. When I look at different ways. Tyler Oliveira and I were talking about this in episode 363 when he was in here. But like, when I look at different ways as to how I would destroy collapsed society upon itself, there's. There's a hundred, maybe a thousand different broad variables. You need to do that. This is one, one of them. No, this is how. This is how you destroy when. When you start making people destroy who they are as a person to try to win the affection and appeal of other people strictly on that metric. And then you mainstream that and make that the popular thing so that other kids who are highly. You know, how impressionable. I was impressionable when I was 27.

[Jack]

I'm impressionable now.

[Julian]

Yeah, absolutely. But like on a whole nother level. And then you look at these 18 year olds, bro, I was an only child. I was on an island. Like, I was looking around going, all right, what are we supposed to do? Like, it makes me so sad. And it's. And it's. And it's also pushing men and women away from each other because that's another thing. And I put a tweet out about this, you know, and maybe some of its maturity and I'm a little older and I've been where I need to be and I know what I want in women. But like when you look at all these women that he's hanging out with and, and glorifying and to be clear,

[Jack]

you know what he does?

[Julian]

What does he do?

[Jack]

All of those women are like, a lot of them are her. His only fans, models and he makes money off of them. So it's like, you know, it's like the Internet pimp in its own way.

[Julian]

You're making my point for me. He. When you see what is now being glorified, all these girls are like the most pro. I was going to say the most prototypical club girls. Well, now you're telling me they're even like onlyfans models. And like just getting back to our basic evolution, when I see these clips of these women, they do not possess a single trait that you look for in a mother of Your child. Not one. Yeah, not one.

[Jack]

Yeah. He. But here's the thing. I don't think he thinks about it like that.

[Julian]

Of course he doesn't. That's the point.

[Jack]

I what would if I was to make a case for why he's not what he is are not funded is his PR guy was this guy by the name of Mitchell Jackson. Mitchell Jackson runs and this was a infamous tweet. He runs like the Arkham Jail. What's the Arkham Asylum? He's. He runs an Arkham Asylum of people he runs. I if you look up Arkham Asylum Mitchell Jackson tweet you should see who's his PR people. This guy's the nicest guy in the world. I love this guy Mitchell Jackson Jackson. But I'm going to show you his list of people that he represents. He resent represents the Arkham Asylum. Candace Owens.

[Julian]

Yeah, I gotta see this deep we can use he's going back and forth. We can use the camera too a little more if that's good. Yeah, I want to see what you're talking about here. I'm not familiar with this.

[Jack]

Yeah. So Mitchell Jackson but he dropped him recently. Mitchell did drop because he was concerned about his drug usage. Look up Mitchell Jackson type in Jack on Google. If you look it up on Google. Google. If you just type in Mitchell Jackson Arkham Asylum the first tweet will pop up because I looked it up I think literally yesterday.

[Julian]

All right, we got it. So bro is running Arkhamazon described quote unquote interloper. The 33 year old PR pro is accustomed to working behind the scenes on behalf of Horizon. High profile and frequently shit stirring clients such as Candace Owens, Brett Cooper, Adam Friedland, Caroline Calloway and Adam22. Quote I gravitate towards clientele that have something to say because otherwise I'd be bored. Jackson tells me adding oh, this is from Taylor Lorenz.

[Jack]

So Taylor Lorenz. I also interviewed Taylor Lorenz.

[Julian]

Wait, is he at an agency or is he just a PR guy? Just a PR guy. So he's not like a CIA guy or something like that?

[Jack]

Okay, now maybe Mitchell Jackson is fucking bought off. You never know. But Mitchell Jackson. And here's the thing. When I interviewed Clap, I got asked. They asked the company. I was like I'll do it. And then I showed it and I showed up. He showed up like clap was still sleeping. And then Mitchell showed up. He had like a. He got. He showed up with food he was eating and we were just shooting this. He's like, yeah, Clap Will be up in a few minutes. And then he.

[Julian]

Did you have to pay for. For it?

[Jack]

No.

[Julian]

Interesting.

[Jack]

And then I think some people have. But they asked like. And this is when he was doing this 30 day stream where he ended up eventually getting arrested. But he. But in the midst of it, they needed stuff to do. And that was when I was the day after, two days after Andrew Callahan interviewed him. And Clive ended the interview early and Mitchell was like, oh, can you just not do it about politics? And I said, yeah, I don't really want to talk to him about it. I know you could definitely talk to him about it all. I mean, he was a part of an international incident with Andrew Tate and Nick Fuentes when they played Hail in the club.

[Julian]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack]

Yeah. And so. But I was. I don't really. I would rather talk to him about. I'd rather talk to him about his. Like, I want to get inside the mind of what makes him tick. Right. And I want to talk about the looksmaxing stuff. And I mean I. The saddest part was when he's like. Yeah, I was like, does anything fire you up? And he's like, not really Matt Math. Which is kind of sad.

[Julian]

That's so sad.

[Jack]

But Mitchell Jackson dropped him and he said, you need to get help and I won't return to helping you until it's very funny. Because Mitchell Jackson, he's this centric gay man. He's. He's just, he's, he's, he's a very. There's. He is, he is, you know, he's gay and he. His relationship with Clap's pretty funny. It's like Clav is this gay PR person. But Clive has really liked him. And ever since Mitchell said you have to get sober, Clive has claimed he's been sober.

[Julian]

Claimed.

[Jack]

Yeah. I mean, what did he do?

[Julian]

He just like OD'd on a stream or something.

[Jack]

Yeah, but he was. He takes these like beta blockers and then he adds alcohol in the mix and then he adds a bunch of other boy. He.

[Julian]

He's not. Isn't he 20? He's not even drinking age. He just turned 21. Okay, that is.

[Jack]

Okay. So, yeah, he's the kind of the original OG looks Max or YouTube. Like, remember Rich Piana?

[Julian]

Rich Piana? You've never show me a picture of Rich Piana. Sometimes the names don't do it.

[Jack]

He was like eight hour dumbbell session. You'll recognize this guy. This guy was OG Internet legend.

[Julian]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

He unfortunately died. Rest in peace to him. I Loved his videos. He was so fun, funny.

[Julian]

What died in clear water.

[Jack]

Yeah. Rich Piana, 5% nutrition. He was unbelievable. But Ziz, he was huge. Clive is kind of like him too. But then there was another guy. I forget his name.

[Julian]

Do you see? Do you see this ending? Not tragically well.

[Jack]

They. They both died.

[Julian]

I know, I know. That's what I'm saying. Do you. For. Do you see? And. And like. I don't mean to be morbid around here. I wish. Clavicular. Nothing but the best. And I hope he comes off all this he's doing. But like, do you think we are sitting here five years from now talking about someone who is still alive?

[Jack]

Yeah. You.

[Julian]

Do you think he'll live the next five years?

[Jack]

I think he's so neurod divergent that if he gets help from off of drugs. He's so focused in a way that is could be valuable for him. He doesn't like going out. That's why he took drugs, is why he told me. But he kind of has this weird kind of bad feedback loop where good content for him is being out in public. He said he's a guy that he's told me and when we were interviewing, he's like. He's the guy who. That could go and be in his house for two weeks not talk to a single person and he wouldn't. It wouldn't matter to him.

[Julian]

Yep.

[Jack]

Maybe he'll talk to people online, but not really. But he's the guy that. And he says the reason that I take these drugs is because literally the day that I. I interviewed him, he tried to go out to a club that night without any drugs. He had a panic attack.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

So it's. It is. That's the sad part for the kid. I feel bad for the kid, but. And then he has this bad feedback loop where it's like the content that my people want is not me talking about looks maxing, but want me to go out. Out to the club and be mean to like a. Like a blonde chick, you know?

[Julian]

Let me tell you something, man. I don't know anything about the type of content he does. I don't know anything about the streaming world or the instantaneous reaction like that. So I have to speak from a separate address here, if you will. But if you fall into that trap of just giving what you think, I won't even call it people what you think the algorithm wants at all times. You will completely lose yourself. And this is where I give myself a little bit of grace for maybe starting later. Than I should have in the years when I was trying to find myself and figure out what I wanted to do with my life, when I should have had the answers in front of me. One of the things I did, unbeknownst to me, this was going to be useful, is I watched people online and across all different sectors and how they would change and what would change them and what the crowd would do to them and how they would react and how they would live through it. And there were so many valuable. It's not to say I'm perfect by any stretch, but there were so many valuable lessons I learned before I ever even bought a camera that I had all these examples of, like, ooh, remember when that guy did that thing because he thought that was gonna be. Don't do that.

[Jack]

Yeah. And you want to be really. You want to be very careful, especially about just. Yeah, just be yourself. And also, it happens in a lot of different ways. It can happen with you. The fame becomes too much, or you try to seek out something that you think's owed to you, where it's like, oh, I have this amount of views, followers, I should be this, that, or the other. And then also, there's a lot of people that. If you can't take, like, you need to be able. You have to have a weird, thick skin in a way that. I think there's. I know people that have thick skin, but. But they can't take criticism online, and it kills them online. I've kind of. I'm like, beyond past that. I'm kind of. But I still have it. Like, you're a human. You hear things and you. You don't want to. You don't want to. But the person that can kind of just continue on and not. But there's a lot of people that just. The criticism eats them alive. I've seen it happen, and they just are never the same. And maybe that's good for them. Maybe that wasn't. It wasn't. Wasn't. The Internet wasn't for them in their own way. But. And then people change a lot, and

[Julian]

you have to be willing to accept it, man.

[Jack]

And also, I think there has to be a grace for yourself that is. I'm gonna figure it out, but it's tough. I mean, I'm still. I've. I spend so much of my time feeling like I haven't figured it out. That. And that's probably. That's the catastrophizing and the spiraling, which

[Julian]

isn't valuable for the day's tasks that Part's not valuable. But the idea that you. You are operating under the assumption at all times that your does stink.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Is a huge asset. Now spiraling. I agree. You got to find that middle ground. But, like, the alternative of, like, I can't do wrong, you're done when you do that. Like, there was an old quote, ironically, from Connor McGregor, who ended up living. I know this is where he goes. People get comfortable with a win. They get real comfortable with a win. And when you get comfortable with a win, that's how you get a loss.

[Jack]

You know what's so interesting? And this is probably why I like mma, ufc, so much. I also heard from somebody. I don't know if it was this guy, but I think it was Kamaru Usman. He said he lost two or three in a row for the first time in, like, ever. And he said, it's easy. You can get used to losing, losing. So it's also both sides. It's so funny how life is just both sides. But McGregor, I watch old McGregor clips. I'm like, this guy was the one.

[Julian]

He was the one.

[Jack]

He was in a way that he. He was going to lose. And, like, he was going to lose. The guys like Habib, but Habib even handled Habib pretty well.

[Julian]

He.

[Jack]

He took a round off him before he got finished, which is insane to say. He could have went back to the left. He was there. He was alive.

[Julian]

There was a time where he would have

[Jack]

the money. We lost the McGregor, and he could have been it like a movie. Like. Yeah. And even if it wasn't now, it's just. It's. It's sad. I mean, the drugs got him.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I think he's a little bit better now, but it's just. It.

[Julian]

It.

[Jack]

We lost. We lost a prime of his. He went on a run that is online. It doesn't happen a lot. There won't be. And I say this a lot. I talk about MMA and UFC. We'll never see another Conor McGregor once.

[Julian]

I think what did it. I've said this for a long time, was the Mayweather fight. He went eight rounds with a still brilliant Floyd Mayweather. The best boxer in the world. The greatest defensive boxer probably defensively of all time.

[Jack]

Of all time. Yeah.

[Julian]

And, you know, made fucking $60 million in one fell swoop. And it was like, how do you top that? It's. It's like. It would be like, what's a really good example here, like, Patrick Mahomes deciding to play in the NBA one day and dropping 35. They don't win. But he drops 35 in a game where he's lined up against Prime, LeBron and Durant, right? Like, that's what he pulled off. And it's almost like that old Hagler quote where he's like. Like it's really hard to get up at 4am and work when you're sleeping in silk pajamas. He got into the silk pajamas and he couldn't recreate that. You know, I was out there with the plumbers and the morning, my friend, you know, I was making nothing.

[Jack]

So the only. And I think what also contributed to it was he had this rivalry right after it with Habib that was happening throughout. That brought out that instinctual kind of warfare that every man kind of has. And then once it was over,

[Julian]

like,

[Jack]

he had it against Dustin, but then Dustin knocks him out. And then he fights Dustin again. Dustin's beat him up. His. Like, his leg. His leg is. And then he's just. Then he's. Then he's finished. Like, but even. Even then, I don't think he wasn't like he was. And also it was. It was. It was such a unique. I mean, he came from a place. It wasn't like he came from this family or. Or gym that was known for iconic. There's guys. So right now, one of the best fighters in the world, I'd argue probably best. Islam Makhachev. He. He, like, he. He was trained by Khabib's father. He's. He's. Was in Khabib's gym. Best friends with Khabib. We've been hearing about him from forever. McGregor came onto the scene. No one knew who the fuck he was. No one knew he was fighting. Ireland never had anything from an MMA perspective. They had some great boxers throughout the years, but MMA made the fuck up. And also he had. He had this innate ability to turn people's lights off in a way that not a lot of people have. It's a gift. But it's not like he was an athletic freak dude.

[Julian]

Nah, he was up here. Yeah, he had it. That was his. And you know what? Have you ever. Because, like, I, by the way, I was really humbled. You were telling me before camera, like, you've listened to the show for a long time. That's always wild me when that's the case. But have you ever heard me talk about the IMU theory that Charlie Rocket

[Jack]

came up with, possibly continue on?

[Julian]

Yeah. So sorry to people who have heard this before, but I ended up having Charlie in here. He's a friend now. Awesome, dude. For episode 352, one of my favorite podcasts of all time. But Charlie had this theory called the IMU theory that he came up with about seven years ago. And I remember it was at the beginning of 2019, end of 2018. And I remember seeing it and I remember just being like, oh, my God. Oh my God. This guy just figured out life. Like, I. I never have that reaction. Got it, but it made sense. And basically he sat down one day and he. And he was just curious if you know Charlie at all. He is exactly what you see on camera. He is genuinely the most curious. Like, I want to wonder about that question right there. Let's find out.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Julian]

Kind of guy. And he goes, I wonder who the highest grossing by revenue superhero of all time is. That's comics, movies, tv, everything in between. And he's thinking it's gonna be Batman or Superman or something like that. And to his surprise, it was Spider Man. He's like, that's interesting. Spider Man's the one whose face you can't see. He's not particularly good looking, doesn't have a chiseled chin, Came from like a lower middle class background. Parents were dead. Wanted the girl, couldn't get the girl.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Had a weird talent, wasn't flying through the air. He was. He was a fucking spike. That's interesting. He was relatable, though. Okay, what is the biggest religion by following in the world? All right. Christianity. All right, who's the hero of Christianity? Jesus Christ. This was a carpenter. He didn't wear, you know, in a time where you could have worn gold plated armor and come in on a white horse. Horse, you know, as the God king, if you will, and everyone would have bowed down to you. He didn't do that. He wore regular clothes, as I said. Was a carpenter a basic, you know,

[Jack]

working man's kind of Muhammad as well?

[Julian]

For sure. Yeah. This just happened to be the one.

[Jack]

I know, I know, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like very similar. Like, it's just like they're the. And. And Muhammad was a guy that fought in battles. Like, it was like, I like with everybody.

[Julian]

Yeah, that's right. And he went around and instead of having, you know, all these fucking armies following him, he had 12 friends. And then sometimes he would give a sermon and, you know, he was just kind of. He hung out with poor people. He was like the average person. So he goes, all right, if this can work with a corporation, we're really onto something. He goes, what is the most famous Corporation of all time. And he goes, holy shit, it's Apple. Everyone's got this in their hands. Who founded Apple? Steve Jobs. First corporate guy to say, fuck the suit, he looked like your dad. In a time where people were coming up with technology and naming Things, and Spiron 6000 or Xenix 4500, he named his products Lisa, iPod, iPhone. He named the products after you. And he goes, holy. This whole time where we're living in this culture where Instagram comes up and social media comes up, and the paradigm becomes, oh, my God, I'm not like you, I'm not like you, I'm not like you, I'm better than you, I'm above you, I'm clavicular, I'm ascending or whatever, whatever. The people that we actually most relate to, forget all the clicks, forget all the things where people run short term. The people we relate to over the long time are the people that are just like us. So what about sports? And he goes, all right, LeBron James is amazing. And at the time Kobe was alive. And he's like, kobe's amazing and they're beloved, no doubt about it. And think about Kobe before he died, where, like, you know, it's an extra level legend after he dies, but he's like the athlete that is unlike, that has transcended everyone, is Michael Jordan. And yes, Michael Jordan now is a reclusive billionaire. But think about when Michael Jordan was coming up through his career and his rise. He was cut from his high school basketball team. He was the scrawny kid that wouldn't get a shot. Then he gets to unc, wins a title, does all these amazing things, grows into his body. And they say, we're still going to draft Sam Bui, above you, comes into the NBA, they ignore him, ignore him, ignore him over and over again. And then he can't get over the top. Finally gets over the top in year seven, Wins the title, wins three in a row, loses his dad, tragically throws his life away, goes and plays baseball, makes an idiot of himself in front of the world to some people because he wasn't as good at it as bass at basketball. Comes back, wins all these titles and everything. Had the song. Because I'm like you, he's like me. And you know what? I want to be like Mike. Like, he had that thing, that passion. He's like everything. Sports, religion, corporations, superheroes, people, over time are going to go to the people that they most relate to. And that's why when you're marketing to people and you shouldn't even think about it from like a marketing perspective, but saying in general speak to people like you are just like them, not like you are above them. And I think we have gotten to a point where we have sold society a lie that for some reason, reason we have to be better than people or this different thing and it ends up creating all those tentacles we talked about earlier when people come around in headsets so you feel more important and it's like the thing that makes things special are the fact that something like this starts with a backwards hat in your parents house and you got to keep that energy.

[Jack]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with

[Julian]

a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good

[Jack]

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[Julian]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway.

[Jack]

Give it a try.

[Julian]

@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for

[Jack]

3 month plan equivalent to $15 per

[Julian]

month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available,

[Jack]

taxes and fees extra.

[Julian]

See full [e-mail] and I mean even

[Jack]

to go off of that, I mean kind of how Trump won is that. Yeah.

[Julian]

100.

[Jack]

Even though. But that's the craziest part about him is he was born with the golden spoon, New York real estate, all of that. But he was he somehow related to that because he talked like them.

[Julian]

What do you do? He put on the hard hat and he walked into West Virginia and said I fuck with you.

[Jack]

You fuck with you. Like you guys got fucked. Yeah. And they. I think that's something that a lot of the politicians need to think about in ways that like obviously Trump, Trump is taking multiple wrong steps. But how do you do it a little bit like him and do it the right way?

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

Because even though you think of it, and I would even say Obama did it too. Obama had the. Oh, I would love to have a beer with him. I may disagree with him politically, but he's a guy that I could have a conversation with. You don't have that with Tim Walls. You don't have that with Kamala. You don't have that with like, you didn't have that with Mitt Romney. You didn't have that like and like George Bush a little bit too. Even George Bush seems like a guy that even though I don't know if I would have a beer with him, but he did have that like and fuck it like. And now watch this drive. Like. Like where after so. But the relatability. And I was going to say, what is everyone's favorite NBA story of the 21st century?

[Julian]

NBA story.

[Jack]

NBA. I'm going to say it and you're going to be like, yeah. What was the one that transcended the NBA more than anything else of the 21st century recently? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It happened. Yeah. I would even say it was past 15. Yeah, past 15 years. It's gonna hit you. What is the best story of the Warriors? No. Jeremy Lynn.

[Julian]

It was short lived. But.

[Jack]

Yeah, no, that is that it was short lived. Yes, I would say.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

You're right. But even like Steph Curry is more like you and I than LeBron James.

[Julian]

Guess the Jeremy L. But you are right. I see exactly what you're saying. That that's who Conor. We started this tangent though. That's who Conor was. Connor was the son of. Of working class Irish people who then had to work as a plumber for 18 hours a day and commute an hour to work over these bumbling hills. Who had nothing and would train with every amount of energy he had left at night. And he had the girl who stood by him, him. And when he had nothing, would sleep on the floor with him and built himself up and came out of nowhere and he was that dude. And then it's like when he crossed that Mayweather Rubicon, suddenly he became, I'm not like you. I'm this thing. And he lost the whole magic of what put him there in the first place. And that is a lesson.

[Jack]

One of my favorite sports moments ever is he took over like the MMA world and Jose Aldo was this unstoppable force. No one thought anyone could beat him. He knocked him out in 15 seconds with what he predicted.

[Julian]

I saw his left hand, it twitched

[Jack]

like, you can't.

[Julian]

Yeah, unreal.

[Jack]

You can't. And I talk about it. It gives you chills. I remember where I was when I watched it and it's just like, holy. He did. Did it. And it does. It wasn't even like. There's always been great moments where there's been upsets and all that. It wasn't really even an upset because they were very well matched. No one thought they could beat. He could beat Jose Aldo, but people did to an extent. No one thought anyone would beat Aldo and he knocked him out in 15 seconds and he was bigger than life. And then it just lost him. Yeah, no, it's. It's sad. It's. It's. You have to. But that's got to be hard when you, you own a Maybach. A Maybach yacht where you want to do or you own it yet. How do you relate with the regular person?

[Julian]

I like my Honda. I like my flip flops.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

I like my chicken cooked in bulk.

[Jack]

But maybe that's the key.

[Julian]

That's the key, man. And don't lose it.

[Jack]

And also like a lot of these people that end up a little bit more than that. Don't get me wrong. Everyone wants to elevate, but a lot of people, there's a lot of people

[Julian]

that doesn't make them happy.

[Jack]

And also you see their, their, their kids too.

[Julian]

That's right.

[Jack]

Right. I went to boarding school.

[Julian]

You went to boarding. Where'd you go?

[Jack]

Kent school.

[Julian]

Where's that?

[Jack]

Kent, Connecticut. It's probably 15, 20 minutes outside Poughkeepsie. So it's up on like, near the Hudson, right on the border of upstate New York in Connecticut. I just saw a lot of people. Parents were there, had everything. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly lucky, but it was a different level.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jack]

And there's a lot of people that have every advantage in the world could never get it together to this day. There was people that like, I, before I went to boarding school, I went to another school, very similar, not as privileged, but privileged people. And they were. 98% of people also graduated college. I went to a school with like, it's more, more prestige, more money, more everything thing. A lot of people never got through college. There's a lot of people, like, and it's just because. And it's goes back to like what I said. Like, my parents are my. Yeah. It's like if I, like, that's, that's why I was like. And that's kind of when I was talking about earlier where we were talk discussing the, the videos and Tik Tok and all that. It's like I kind of just got lucky, but. And that's the same thing with my parents. And it, it happens. And you kind of see these people that go to get kind of lost in the sauce, literally and figuratively. And like, they kind of just lose it.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

But there are people that can do both. There's a lot of people that have done.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want, by the way, I don't want to vilify how people make decisions and stuff like that. What I am vilifying is the people who do it strictly to be able to say they do it to hold something over other people. The people I always identified with the most of the people that I would meet have a three hour conversation with them. I about life, not know what they did and later find out they were like that.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And have. And you know, they didn't walk in Rolex this and chain. I love that.

[Jack]

Well, that Kirakao story with how he was talking with Elon Musk and he didn't even realize it. It kind of. But now Elon's his own thing we get to discuss about Elon forever. But I mean Elon at his core is obsessed with the idea of space and kind of technology and he'll die with at. That's right. So that's why I kind of think like maybe clavicular can work it out because there is that Elon that like. But it's look smacks and it's a little bit different.

[Julian]

Elon Musk, the clavicular. Oh, they're gonna love that in the comments. Yeah, I would do it too. No, you.

[Jack]

But no, it's just like I. But that's what I taken. But you know what?

[Julian]

That.

[Jack]

That's what popped into my head now. That's probably why sometimes like it's. Sometimes I'll say stuff and I'll do these videos and like it's kind of silly in theory Clavicular to Elon Musk, but it is kind of like that conversation. That's my goal. It's like you're having the conversation and like if the video is good enough and you're explaining something or talking about something. But the ones that work the best are where they were. And that's why. And that's why some of them work and some of them don't. But no, it's. It's a. Yeah. And I even think about it and I think it's like if you had all this more money, like what would really change? Life would get a little bit easier, quote unquote. But like the best thing that you could probably do is like it would be sick if you had a house, a private chef, a nice gym at home and then the ability to be able to travel or go anywhere you want, whenever. Now that's insane amount of money. But if I had to say it but after that I'd be like, like, like, I don't know. Like. I mean you like how many places of like houses can you own? That's.

[Julian]

I. I don't own under. You know, do you really need one

[Jack]

in California, Texas, New York?

[Julian]

No.

[Jack]

And then on Long island and then in Florida. Do you real. I Don't. I don't know. But maybe you have so much money you have to park that money somewhere.

[Julian]

Maybe. But like my whole thing is there. There's things that I over time I would have said at some point like oh, I regret being there instead of knowing I should have been here. And then I realize and get the grace of like whoa, look what I was able to learn because I went into the wrong thing, right? Like I came out of college, I'm like, well, I gotta get a job. And I got a job on Wall street that was not a fit for me at all. Love. The people I work with didn't like the work, but it taught me so much about life because I was helping manage the money for like the ultra people that had. I would make one trade and it would be more money than I, I have ever seen in my life like at any point ever. And I got to learn. I don't want to make it all sound like it was bad examples. I saw good examples too of people who had a lot of money and you'd never knew it know it. And they were happy as could be. Their family was happy as could be. The next generations were doing their own things and had purpose. And then I would see the opposite examples of the quote unquote mo money, mo problems. Invented problems where those kids you talk about at boarding. So I saw a lot of those and I, I felt bad for them because they were dead. They were dead from the time they were born because mommy and daddy wanted to make sure they had all the money and they never had to do anything. They never had to work and they lived these purposeless lives where they could pay for anything. But they were never happy and they were never going to be. And like it made me realize because like I got big dreams. I started this day one. I want to be the best to ever do it. Anything less is a failure. Well, guess what? Even if I'm not great at making money, I know a lot of money comes with that. Yeah, I need to find a woman that is cool with not owning a fucking 12 room mansion. I need to find, be able to build a family to where like my kids, they do their own fucking thing. I don't want to trust funds or like that. I've never understood.

[Jack]

You may want trust funds.

[Julian]

I. Dude, I've never understood the generational wealth thing. I've never understood.

[Jack]

I have now I don't have a trust fund but I think if you can help your kids kid buy a house and not have to think about can be huge, but 0 to 18 is one the biggest. Like, like it's not because when you think about trust fund kids, you think about the uppity. But it's like, if you have your kids, why wouldn't you give them the ability to not have to worry about rent now it can cause more and maybe you learn lessons along the way. But also. So the other option is usually it's like giving the money to the fucking government. So it's like maybe you could put it other places. But if you have this money, you have three kids, you trust them, you've spent your time raising them to make sure that yes, they have nice things, but this isn't like they're not bullshit rich kid stereotype. They have. Like, why wouldn't you you now maybe it's required. Hey, you have to have a job. You have to do this, you have to do that. I'm gonna buy. This is your apartment now. But like, I don't want to hear about you spending all your money on like going out every week or like, are you walking?

[Julian]

I'll tell you why. Because I think you have to have drive. And I don't think that you can coerce drive. I think it has to be something that comes from within, that has the environment to build itself into being able to happen in the first place. And here's what I mean by that. I would totally let my kids after college live in the house so they don't have to pay rent and stuff like that, which I think is a huge advantage by the way. That is the only reason this podcast exists.

[Jack]

Exactly.

[Julian]

My parents, like, I went and lived on my own for five years, had all these rent bills and shit. And then the pandemic happened and my dad let me move back in and I built a studio there. I could never have afforded a rent on a studio to build this show for years. I would totally let my kids do stuff like that. That. But the whole concept of like paying for your kids lifestyles and things like that, there needs to be. I don't know, maybe my opinion would adjust on this, but it never has to this point. There needs to be some level of like actually creating something yourself, having drive, going out there and getting it without having the backstop of like mommy and daddy will pay that bill for me. You know what I mean? Like there's. Dude, I've never carried debt in my Life. I remember 2022, I literally had $0 and my computer snapped. It was a whole thing. And I was like, oh my God. And this is when I was making crazy shorts and it was like reliant on growing the show and I had to go to someone really close to me and very sheepishly say, you know, you think you could spot me a few thousand dollars to get this laptop? I'll pay. They're like, julian, are you. Of course. Yeah. You don't even have to pay. But I paid that 28 days.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

Like, I don't want to owe anyone anything.

[Jack]

Of course.

[Julian]

You know, and there's just something about that and not. And gamifying it so that you don't know that you have that or something so special.

[Jack]

Yeah. I think you, like, I completely get your point of view. I guess I'm just trying to think now. I mean, like, I pay, right. I don't. It's not like my parents gave me an apartment that I live in. But I think to myself, if, like you had that ability, wouldn't you do it for your kid? But I. I'm not a. I'm not a father. So I don't know. And I think you. But like. And that is. Right. How do you make sure that he doesn't or she doesn't lose that drive and maybe the eye of the drive? Because it's like I have to pay rent at the end of the month and I've been very lucky and I've made it far enough where like, I'm not thinking about rent at the end of the month. But you are. Theoretically, it's like, no, I have a job. I have to do this, that the other. But I think giving the kid the advantage and knowing that you raised them right for the first 18 years, they're going to take advantage of it. But I also hear your point of view.

[Julian]

It's a tough question that I'm going to have to actually answer and really live through and understand when I am a parent. And that is the thing. We are talking about a hypothetical here. I have some strong opinions. I on that because I've seen both sides of it to where like, I see other kids where it goes really bad or the parents do it right and it goes really well. And the ones where I see it go really well are where the parents are like, yo, you're on your own. And you know, that doesn't. When those kids have the advantage of growing up and they have things that other kids aren't blessed to have, roof over their head, food always there, clothes on their back, no questions asked, they don't have to go get a job when they're 11 or something like that.

[Jack]

I mean that's.

[Julian]

You know what I mean?

[Jack]

That like even that. And that's something that I remind myself. But like even that is like you're in top 2%, 3% of the world.

[Julian]

Absolutely.

[Jack]

And that's enough. And that is a necessity. That's like almost like it feels like that's required in America. And I think that should be. But the, the, the. The privilege that exists in America even. And that's easy for me to say, but I just mean just in general. Like we are like you don't. And that's why I try to expose myself to watching things and hearing stories. Stories like we don't understand. If you've never been there and you like. I mean, probably Kirakao knows a lot more.

[Julian]

It's like, oh yeah.

[Jack]

There's tens of millions of people that are born. Are hundreds of millions of people. Billions that are born into a life they won't make. Yep. $10,000 in their life. American dollars.

[Julian]

Yep.

[Jack]

It's insane. But we like, that's why. And that's not to say you shouldn't ask for more of the society that you love live in. But it is crazy that. I mean, that's another thing. It's like your zip code that you're born in is so important.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

And it's very. And I. That's one of the things I lucked out on. That's why I always say, yep, privilege. But I don't know what I would do. It's a. And maybe along the way you kind of answer those questions and you get to. Because you answer questions right now with people that you trust. Those people will have kids, they'll go through things, you'll see things. I also think there's very important things along the way. Way if you know, it's not that ability to make sure that you have to make ends meet to get food on the table. Maybe it's like you're gamifying it. And that's why I think sports are so important even if you're not that good. Like my kid's probably not going to be very good at anything in terms of like he'll high school. But like it's very important to get involved with it.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And also I think the camaraderie of it, the teammates, the. No, that. That's. That's a huge thing.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jack]

Because you get to know, especially as a guy, I'm sure it's important for girls too. But as a guy, if you never a part of a team You're.

[Julian]

I agree.

[Jack]

Even if you weren't even that good. But like, if you. And like, you kind of get a camaraderie with, like, oh, this sucks, but it, it's very important. And so that's what. But again, I don't know.

[Julian]

No, but we're going to find out.

[Jack]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to find out.

[Julian]

But you and I will have this conversation 20 years from now. What are you thinking, pal?

[Jack]

But then, I mean, like, I think about it like, and my parents are from Brooklyn and they elevated themselves in ways that their. Their brothers and sisters did as well. But I grew up in a way that was very privileged. And I feel like they made sure to make that I was not somebody that thought, like, I'm not here sitting here with the quote, unquote, success on social, saying to myself, oh, I deserve that. I, like, I'm someone that's thinking about, oh, like, what. What could go wrong? And I think they did in a really good way. So they probably. And. And I'm sure you could do that. And that's something that happens throughout their younger years. And if you can help them in their years when they're out of college, especially in this weird economy that we're living in, it's only going to get worse. It may be valuable, but it may not.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And I guess that's probably the question that you ask as yourself, the parent. As a parent, every single day, when you have decisions, should they. And it's like, should you be very strict about who they hang out with or not? Is it valuable to have them, like, fall on their face? And it's like, oh, is it valuable for them to be in the wrong group? And then like, that group takes advantage of them and then you're like, hey, this is what happens? Or do you try to. Yeah, I don't know.

[Julian]

It's. I. Yeah, I mean, look, like I said, I have like, these ideas that are stolen from ideas of seeing things that worked or didn't work in the past that I feel strongly about. But I'll know when I'm in the position. Yeah. Hopefully I make the right calls. You know what I mean? But it's the hardest job in the world, but it's the most important job too. And it's something I really look forward to. You're doing. But you also. The number one thing is you have to find the right woman. Yeah. Holy. Do you gotta find the right woman? Because you guys aren't gonna agree on everything that's not life. Like, you're gonna have disagreements, but you have to have a similar, at least philosophy on life and North Star in a way, you know, and it sounds like your parents had that. My parents. I was lucky. They certainly have that. And like, I think that's a huge advantage in. And of course itself when you have parents who like, get it and you know, again, no one's perfect, but like, they get all the important stuff. Right. Like, that's like being halfway down the third baseline in life.

[Jack]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I can only imagine what those discussions are like. But you have to be very clear, especially when with the person that you're fuck.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Yeah. You like, if you're having a child with, you have to be really. And I mean, you hear nasty, nasty stories and it's sad that but. And you see it. It's like. It just like it and it up for the. The child as well. I mean, you. We all know kids that went through divorces or like parents went away, all that. And you see the effect on them. And it's like that kid was a. Was a. Was a star and then his parents got divorced.

[Julian]

Yeah. Yeah. It's another.

[Jack]

No, it's a very sad. It's. And you try and you, you stay friends with them, of course, but they go through things that you can't. Like, you can't relate. I can't to relate to it because my parents didn't.

[Julian]

That's right. Jack Mack, you're a smart guy, bro.

[Jack]

Oh, well, this is a lot of fun. I mean, I enjoyed it. I feel like I didn't even know how this would go in terms of what we talked about. Obviously, the shooting at the White House Correspondence center was big, but I really appreciate you saying I'm a smart guy. I'm trying to be. I've made some stupid calls along the ways along the way. That was very funny. I made some stupid calls along the ways. I was stupid in that sentence. But I'm trying to be somebody that makes the next right call.

[Julian]

That's all that matters, pal. You're doing great.

[Jack]

Thank you. And I, as a fan of the show, I've appreciated this show in a lot of ways. I love listening to it, even if it's something I know nothing about or know a lot about and I learn a lot. And it's been awesome to see it grow too, because I think that's something that's very inspiring. And also, also hearing like, what we talked about today, betting on yourself and really believing in it and then also knowing what the future and thinking about it. It's really, really special to see and it's cool. It's kind of like watching a, a basketball player evolve his game.

[Julian]

I appreciate that.

[Jack]

So. And I can't wait to see what's next. And I don't think we know. Like, you never know what your next thing's going to be. It really is one video or one story and then you're. It's, it's that. That's it. And then you're in it.

[Julian]

And hopefully you're not Diana Rossini.

[Jack]

Yeah. Yes. On that note, sleep with the coach. Do not do that. But you could be that story if you want to go in that way. And then you could go a different route. Jack back.

[Julian]

We're gonna link your x and your

[Jack]

IG and YouTube if you want to watch that collab interview.

[Julian]

Check all the links to make sure I have everything.

[Jack]

I want to go follow Jack Taylor Lorenz. I'm gonna do some more in the future as well. See ya.

[Julian]

All right.

[Jack]

I think I'm gonna do one with you. I'm gonna ask that actually. Yeah, I would love to do it with you. So we'll do that sometime in the summer, maybe somewhere in Hoboken.

[Julian]

Anytime, bro. You let me know.

[Jack]

Okay.

[Julian]

We'll link that down below. Yeah, go follow.

[Jack]

Thanks guys for watching.

[Julian]

Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. What's up guys? Thanks so much for watching the video. If you have not subscribed, please hit that subscribe button before you leave. As well as leaving a like on the video to huge. A huge help. You can join my patreon via the link in the description and you can also join my clipping community via the Discord link down below. See you for the next episode. Let's be honest. Buying cannabis shouldn't be complicated, sketchy or low quality. That's why I want to tell you about Mood.com that's M-O-Ood.com Mood ships federally legal cannabis straight to your door. No medical card, no hassle. And here's the the quality is better than anything you'll find at your local dispensary. Yeah, I said it. Whether you're into edibles, concentrates, flour, or just looking to explore, you'll find it all at Mood. And it's not just the variety that makes them stand out. Every product is sourced from small American owned family farms that care deeply about what they grow. It's cannabis you can trust, delivered discreetly and ready to elevate your mood. And because you're a listener, you get 20% off your first order order. Just head to mood. Com, that's mood.com to get started.