Oct 23, 2025 with Lukas Gage

Summary

Podcast Summary: Just Trish – October 23, 2025

Guest: Lukas Gage
Host: Trisha Paytas
Co-host: (Mentioned: Oscar Gracey)
Episode Theme:
A candid and comedic conversation with actor and writer Lukas Gage on fame, attention-seeking, struggles with mental health, relationships, and Hollywood’s wild ride. Both host and guest share their unfiltered takes on internet fame, personal growth, borderline personality disorder, and the chaos—and unexpected peace—of living out loud.

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Episode Overview

Trisha welcomes actor and newly-minted memoirist Lukas Gage for a rich, hilarious, and deeply open interview. They discuss Lukas’s rise in Hollywood, personal battles with mental health, relationships with family and romantic partners, internet virality, and finding meaning and stability amidst the chaos. The two connect over shared experiences in fame, "delulu" manifesting, borderline personality disorder, and the perpetual tension between craving attention and wanting privacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lukas and Trisha’s Mutual Admiration (02:07–03:07)

• Trisha gushes over Lukas as her "favorite person of all time" and recounts DMing him for years.
• Lukas reveals he watched Trisha on YouTube as a teen, becoming a mukbang superfan.

Quote:

• "When you slid into my DMs, I actively tried not to freak out and… I've been following you since my teens." — Lukas Gage (02:20)

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2. Mukbangs, Body Image, and Postmates Roulette (03:07–04:27)

• Trisha and Lukas discuss "Postmates Roulette"—random food delivery as a social/mukbang game.
• Lukas says he'll eat anything ("Wendy’s chili and a Frosty"), and Trisha jokingly laments her mukbang self-consciousness.
• Both share fitness routines—Pilates and Solidcore, and Trisha marvels at Lukas’ physique.

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3. Path to Hollywood: Dreaming Big & Being "Delulu" (04:50–06:31)

• Trisha notes Lukas’ rapid career moves; Lukas credits "delulu is a solulu" (delusion is a solution) as his mantra.
• Lukas discusses moving to LA with no plan, living out of a Honda Fit, and hustling hard.
• He still drives the same car, now "pimped out," and jokes about his mom’s obsession with it.

Quote:

• "To quote you, just Delulu is a Salulu, you know?... I think a little bit of crazy is good." — Lukas Gage (05:18)

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4. Family, Childhood, and Craving Attention (07:14–08:29)

• Lukas’s mom is his number one fan, wearing merch from his cameo roles.
• Discussion about birth order (Lukas is the baby) and how many actors are youngest siblings.

Quote:

• "I think that there's something about wanting attention and not getting enough attention or getting too much attention as the baby..." — Lukas (08:18)

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5. Fame, Privacy, and The Memoir "I Wrote This For Attention" (08:29–09:39)

• Trisha grills Lukas on writing a memoir despite his private nature.
• Contrasts Trisha’s era of "trolling for attention" with Lukas’s subtler mischief (“I troll a little bit”).
• Discusses lying in interviews as a form of trolling and attention-seeking.

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6. Struggles with Mental Health: Borderline Personality Disorder and DBT Therapy (14:15–16:56)

• Both open up about being diagnosed with borderline personality disorder after years of misdiagnosis.
• Trisha shares positive experiences with DBT group therapy; Lukas found the skills groups “felt like school” but values learning to self-soothe.
• Discuss the paradox of craving and fearing attention, and the dangers of reading online hate.

Quote:

• "You want all this attention, you're like, begging for it. And then like, once you get it, like, don't look at me." — Trisha (11:05)
• "I think a little bit of crazy is good." — Lukas (05:18)

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7. High-Speed Relationship, Quickie Marriage, and Lessons Learned (17:51–18:19)

• Lukas describes his whirlwind marriage as part of a manic, untreated BPD period.
• Both hosts agree there’s something "iconic" about quick Hollywood weddings, like Pamela Anderson’s.
• They bond over "falling in love too easily" and intense relationships.

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8. Online Fame, Virality, and the Audition Apartment Incident (53:46–57:38)

• Lukas recounts his viral audition tape where a director unknowingly comments on his apartment.
• He described posting the footage after encouragement from peers (Jennifer Coolidge and Molly Shannon).
• Initial thrill turned to panic when it went viral; agents were nervous, opportunities (Kelly Clarkson Show, Drew Barrymore) poured in.

Quote:

• "I love attention. And then when I get it, it's too much and I hate it. And I'm like, get me away. What did I do?" — Lukas (57:38)

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9. Navigating Rejection, Familial Abandonment, and Healing (35:03–41:16)

• Trauma of being bullied as a child, moving schools, and being misunderstood.
• Complicated relationship with his father—abandonment, dad starting new family without telling him, but now, slowly reconnecting and developing forgiveness.

Quote:

• "I humanized my dad during this… I could see him as a kid… our parents are just, like, wounded kids doing the best." — Lukas (39:18)

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10. The Constant Quest for Validation & Evolving Relationship With Attention (65:07–66:05)

• Lukas says the thirst for attention will never fully go away, but now he seeks it in healthier ways (“the right kind of love, the right kind of attention”).
• Trisha and Lukas find solace knowing their childhood "please notice me" hunger remains, but life can be gentler.

Quote:

• "That little boy who wanted attention… is still very much in me and still shaking for his parents to be like, 'good job, kid.'" — Lukas (66:05)

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11. Hollywood Realities: Jump-Scaring, Friendships, and Community (60:22–62:44)

• Lukas describes being part of the young Hollywood "it crowd," but notes a sense of isolation: “Having fun isn’t fun anymore,” citing increased performativity and the impact of social media and the pandemic.
• Both miss organic, spontaneous good times.

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12. Career, Dreams, and What’s Next for Lukas Gage (67:15–68:38)

• Recent and upcoming projects: Netflix films, writing (sold movies), continued acting.
• Lukas feels more stable and content than ever; attention is now secondary to creative fulfillment and wellbeing.

Quote:

• "I want to keep getting better at [acting, writing, producing]… I want to just continue to get better." — Lukas (68:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Delulu is the salulu." — Lukas Gage (05:18)
• "I wrote this for attention." — Lukas, referencing his memoir (08:29)
• "I think I was doing very attention-seeking behavior… not medicated properly." — Lukas (09:14)
• "We love desperation." — Trisha (44:02)
• "You and like, Cardi B… just let you guys do whatever the f* you want." — Lukas (76:36)
• "That little boy who wanted attention… is still very much in me." — Lukas (66:05)
• "Having fun isn’t fun anymore." — Lukas (62:01)
• “I’m the baby.” — Lukas on family and attention, (07:42)
• "We love Delulu." — Trisha (44:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:07] – Meeting and mutual admiration, early YouTube days
• [03:34] – Mukbangs, food rituals, body image
• [05:18] – Delulu manifesting, moving to LA
• [08:29] – Writing for attention, privacy vs. memoir
• [14:15] – Mental health, BPD, DBT therapy
• [17:51] – Manic marriage era
• [35:03] – Spirituality, mediumship help with loss
• [39:18] – Relationship with father, forgiveness
• [53:46] – Viral audition/“apartment” tape story
• [60:22] – Hollywood circle, struggles with friendship
• [65:07] – Seeking attention, growing up, self-acceptance
• [67:15] – Writing, upcoming projects, feeling stable
• [76:24] – Movie dream: Trisha, Lukas, Cardi B
• [77:18] – Book promotion, audiobook, memoir

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Tone & Language

• Humorously raw; honest and self-deprecating with both Trisha and Lukas sharing personal flaws, embarrassing stories, and deep insecurities.
• Vibe shifts comfortably from light banter to intimate disclosures on trauma and healing.
• The rapport is energetic, supportive, and spontaneous—inviting listeners into a genuine kiki between two internet icons.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In:

This episode delivers an unpredictable mix of Hollywood gossip, mental health insight, confessional storytelling, and charming weirdness. Trisha and Lukas’s chemistry makes for an entertaining journey deep into the realities behind internet fame, the cost (and allure) of attention, and the power in simply saying the truth—even when it’s messy.

Recommended for:
Fans of pop culture gossip, mental health honesty, and the unfiltered “main character” energy only Trisha Paytas and Lukas Gage can provide.

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Lukas Gage’s memoir I Wrote This For Attention is out now, including audiobook (in his own voice).

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(End of summary)

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

I go to psychics all the time. I mean, I went to two in particular. I went to Theresa Caputo, the Long island medium.

[B]

Stop it.

[A]

And I went to Tyler Henry, the Hollywood medium. I think I was like, wait, why are we talking? Why is someone talking about my apartment while I'm acting? And now why am I self conscious about this apartment? Like, did I do the paint job?

[B]

Just me traumatizing you again.

[A]

What are some things that I got? I look like Shane Dawson.

[B]

The Shane Dawson is crazy. Cause you also give a Shane mention in your book.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Where you said people compared to him for like, queer rating.

[A]

Her name is Trish.

[B]

She's got the dish and all. Got some filthy rich, really hot topic queen, and that's what everybody thinks.

[A]

She's just.

[B]

All right. Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Gestures podcast. Oh, my gosh. Gagged. We have literally the hottest actor in the whole world. Someone I've been sliding into the DM since, I don't know, probably four years, five years now. I'm obsessed with him. You're probably obsessed with him. You probably seen him in every single TV show. It's Lucas Cage.

[A]

Oh, my God, this is my Christmas. I'm shaking right now. I'm not. Okay.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

You're my favorite person of all time.

[B]

That's crazy. How come we don't talk more? Because we would dm. But then I'm like, let me be cool about it. Let me not.

[A]

I think when you slid into my DMs, I. I actively tried not to freak out and not like, act like. I've been following you for. Since my childhood, since my teens.

[B]

Yeah, we really. Were you on social media, like as a kid, like watching?

[A]

I was like, yeah, I was just getting lost in the YouTube world of it all for a bit. I was never, I never YouTubed, but I, I don't watch that many. But you were one of a very select few, actually probably the only one.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's so random. Like, how would you even find.

[A]

How did I find you?

[B]

Yeah, like in the YouTube world, like I can't imagine.

[A]

I think it started with when you beat the. When you were going to beat the world record. Oh, yes. Do you remember that? Fastest stalker. That was my introduction to you. But the mukbangs is where it really, really hit for me.

[B]

I was so excited the other day. You're like, should we mukbang? And I never know if someone's being serious or not. Cause I was literally gonna be like, what's your order? Like, yes, absolutely.

[A]

I was serious.

[B]

Like, what kind of food though? Cause that's my other thing is I get like self conscious, obviously eat on camera, but I always get self conscious in front of someone cuz like, I'd be like, yeah, let's mukbang. And then they'll order like something so like little and I feel like embarrassed, you know, I mean. But are you like a fast food mukbanger? Are you like sweet greens? No, no.

[A]

Fuck no.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

No, no.

[B]

What's your mukbanga choice? If you had.

[A]

I think I'm with my friend Phoebe, he's here today. And we would do, we would. We would do like the Pizza Hut, Domino's, like every single thing. What do we do more?

[B]

We do this thing called Postmates Roulette.

[A]

Oh, Postmates Roulette.

[B]

Wait, what is this?

[A]

So we get a group of people and we can't tell anyone what we're ordering. Everyone has their own order and it's a surprise. And it's like the craziest. It's like jerk chicken meats, like sushi meats, ice cream, and we have to eat it all.

[B]

I might hate that though. I'm like weirdly love food, but picky eater. Okay, but you can eat anything.

[A]

Yeah, anything.

[B]

So if we have like Thai food, you're like, yeah, everything. If I have like Wendy's chili, you're.

[A]

Like, yeah, Ooh, yeah, Wendy's chili. And a Frosty though.

[B]

So good. Okay, that's so interesting because you have like such a great body. So I would just think, like, you're just so. Thank you. You know, I was trying. I was trying to find my waist cincher Today. I started Pilates, so I feel a little better. It's my third attention.

[A]

No, yeah, yeah, I'm into it.

[B]

Do you go to a gym or do you go to studio?

[A]

I do the solid core gym thing and I do aloe, too. You know, like the aloe gym.

[B]

I am obsessed with aloe. How do you get in there?

[A]

Come with me.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

You come with me anytime.

[B]

No, because it's like, that's like the. Like, the biggest gym. Like, Jake Shane is there.

[A]

You're elite.

[B]

No, that is not.

[A]

You have more on IMDb than any of us on there.

[B]

That is not true.

[A]

Yes, it is.

[B]

I've had one acting role as an extra in Modern Family.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

No acting. You are living my dream about you, okay? You're literally in every single TV show, every single everything.

[A]

How I just. I pop in for a couple minutes and just show my face.

[B]

It's not a couple minutes. You are key characters in, like, all of these. And it's like how you. You're from San Diego. How do you, like, get. How do you get there?

[A]

I think, to quote you, just Delulu is a Salulu, you know?

[B]

Are you delusional?

[A]

I'm completely delusional.

[B]

But you're not. Cause you're living it. Like, I'm delusional thinking I'll get cast in White Lotus. You were in it, but you're living.

[A]

It, too, and you're killing it. And you were on snl. I mean, I feel like you would have never guessed that. You know? Like, I think, like, if you just don't put any limit to yourself, and I do believe you have to be a little delusional and, like, shoot for the stars and not. I don't know. I think a little bit of crazy is good.

[B]

I think so, too, because I also think, like, delusion. Like, did you have any connections in industry? Were you, like, so. Yeah. To really want to, like, act and be in a TV show, like, you have to be that person to be like, yes, I'm a star.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. I had no plan. I moved up here and lived in a motel in my Honda Fit that I still drive.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

Yeah, I love my Honda.

[B]

Wait, why? Just to keep yourself humble or you love it?

[A]

I just, like, kind of love that little thing. It's so compact, and I can park anywhere, and I don't give a cars.

[B]

What year is It.

[A]

It's like, God, what year? It must be, like, 2013, 2014.

[B]

And it still runs?

[A]

Still runs.

[B]

Wow. How many miles?

[A]

At least 200 or more.

[B]

Yeah, you should probably get a new car.

[A]

I think it's time to get a new one. I decked it out. I got, like, tinted windows and, like, racing seats for it because I just thought it was really funny to, like, pimp out my. My Honda Fit.

[B]

Wait, have you shown this anywhere? No, that's kind of everything. It's very Pimp My Ride.

[A]

It's. Something's dying in there, though.

[B]

Like, the smell. Maybe it's a mouse.

[A]

There's. I think there's a dead mouse that's living in the ac.

[B]

You know what? For real, this happened to us. My Mercedes Maybach. They eat French fries in the. What is that little thing called? Anyways, we have to get it fixed, like, every few months, but they're always eating, like, fries in there. So if you leave food, a little mouse can come. Maybe that's what's happening.

[A]

I think it is, honestly.

[B]

And you, like, smell. Smell it.

[A]

I smell it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's time. It's time to get a new one.

[B]

It'd be hard to sell it, I guess, with the stench.

[A]

No, I'm not selling it for anything. I'll give it to my mom. My mom won't let me get rid of it. She wants it really bad.

[B]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

She, like, is obsessed with the food.

[B]

Is your mom up here? She's still.

[A]

She's in San Diego. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Because I know you're close with your mom. You dedicated to the book. One of the dedications.

[A]

One of the dedications, yeah.

[B]

Is she, like, your number one fan? Is she, like, obsessed with everything you do?

[A]

100 she. I'm in Smile 2 for five minutes, and she has a Smile 2 T shirt on it that she wears everywhere she goes and points to everybody at the store that, like, I like your shirt. And she's like, that's my son.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

Yeah. It's really cute.

[B]

That's actually adorable. I would do that, too, for my son. Are you baby?

[A]

I'm the baby.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. Do I get baby?

[B]

Yeah. We have a baby boy now, and I was born.

[A]

Oh, I know. How is Aquaman?

[B]

Aquaman is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're giving Aquaman. He has light eyes and blonde hair, which our girls are like, dark hair and stuff. So I was just like, yeah, you're giving baby Aquaman, but grown up the baby.

[A]

Are you done, do you think?

[B]

Yes. My tubes are Out.

[A]

Your tubes are out.

[B]

We removed them.

[A]

Yes. Okay. The baby is. The baby's the star. The baby is most likely to be an actor, I think.

[B]

Wait, why do you think that?

[A]

I think most people I know, I would say probably 75% of my friends are the youngest child that are actors.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I think that there's something about wanting attention and not getting enough attention or getting too much attention as the baby that, like, you just, you. You need more constantly.

[B]

I mean, literally the title of your book.

[A]

I wrote this for attention.

[B]

I wrote this for attention, which is so. Okay. I was so gagged knowing first that you ran. Like, wrote a memoir because you're, like, private. Like, really private. Like, if you go to, like your Wikipedia, there's no personal life section and it's like, okay, so you wrote this memoir, this, like, tell all. But then you're also like, talk in the book how much you want attention. And I'm like, well, you don't do anything for it. Like, you don't troll. Like, I was a troll and you're not like a troll.

[A]

I troll a little bit.

[B]

What was the troll that you've done?

[A]

I just think I will. I will lie a lot in interviews or I'll like, just kind of like mess with people back, period. Yeah, no, I will. And I do do things for attention. I think I had an era, especially where I was. I think I was first of all, maybe not medicated properly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went a little bit. A little cuckoo. And I think I was doing very attention seeking behavior.

[B]

What age is this?

[A]

This was probably two, three years ago. Yeah.

[B]

Marriage.

[A]

The marriage era. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Which is the marriage era. The year six months, which is. I hate to be that person, but it is, like, kind of iconic. Right.

[A]

It's sick.

[B]

Like, we do love, like a quickie marriage. If someone wanted to marry me, I would have married probably like 10 times by now.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's something kind of chic. It's like Pamela Anderson. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, falling in love and just being in the moment.

[A]

Okay. I did a movie last year with Pam Anderson. She played my mom. And you remind me of her.

[B]

Stop it.

[A]

You do.

[B]

Pam is like my queen.

[A]

She's my queen. She's the nicest, coolest person in the world. And like, and she. She says it like, you have to be bold to love. Yeah, I am so about that. I think that, like, fall in love is. I love love.

[B]

Yeah. It's the most beautiful thing. It just like, it's exciting. And then when you have that stability, you're like, you know, just feeling like your best self. Yeah, I'm gagged. Okay, wait, the Pam is in a movie?

[A]

It's a movie. Yeah, it's called Rose Bush Pruning. It's not out yet.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. And did you guys, like, bond on Saturdays? Like, talking?

[A]

We bonded on set. She would write me little notes in character as my mom. And I told her on set, it was that I was in the middle of writing a book. And like, her book was so great. And, you know, she's like the most. She's just like a loyal, protective mama.

[B]

You know, I love her too, because she's like, very similar to you where she is, like, private, but also like out there. You know what I mean? Like, she is, like, iconic for all. All that she is. All her weddings, everything, everything about her.

[A]

She had like, her moments too, where she was. I think it's like the classic actor thing. It's like, I want attention. I don't like, want attention. Look at me. Don't look at me. You know, it's like that I just constantly vacillate between the two.

[B]

Yeah. You talk about it in your book where you're just like, you know, you want all this attention. You're like, begging for it. And then like, once you get it, it's like, don't look at me. Yes. Which is resonates so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's also just like. You also talk about, like, wanting all kinds of negative attention. And I was like that too. Just like craving anything, even if it was bad. I almost like, wanted bad attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it was just like more sensational.

[A]

You know, I think I got addicted to reading the bad stuff I got. It was like feeding this dark part of my brain that I just wanted more and more. And it was almost like I was looking at the negative things to kind of confirm, like, the beliefs that I think about myself. Like, if that person sees that thing that they don't like about my face or my body or the way that I act, like it's. They were right. They can see it too, you know.

[B]

Oh, so like, comments about your physical appearance would bother you?

[A]

Not. I mean, yeah, they would bother me, but I would also look for it because I was like, oh, I feel that way too.

[B]

Wow. What would be an insecurity? Because you look at someone like you and you're like, oh, a perfect looking person.

[A]

I mean, there's a lot of people.

[B]

You don't just say, I Guess then more people will just like attack you. But like I can't even imagine they.

[A]

Would just, you know, I think there.

[B]

Just me traumatizing you again.

[A]

What are some things that I got? FAS syndrome. A lot of I look like Shane Dawson.

[B]

The Shane Dawson is crazy because you also give a Shane mention in your book.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Where you said people compared to him for like queer baiting. Yeah, people said you look like him. Love Shane, think he's so handsome. But that's crazy.

[A]

Yeah. No, I just don't see it. I get long legs. Long Legs. You know the movie Long Legs? Like Nicolas Cage. I see that one. No, like the crazy monster from Long Legs. I look I actually trolling you.

[B]

There's no way someone's like, you look like a monster.

[A]

I do. I think I, I, I need to see Dennis. Yeah, I know. I think, I think, I don't disagree. I think I'm conventionally and not conventionally. Like what you think of as an actor. I don't know, like there's not.

[B]

I think you're the conventional actor. You're like Rat, but you're Leonard. You know, you are that person as an actor.

[A]

I don't go for those, like those roles, which is okay. But I don't know, I just think people, people love to be online and it's all good.

[B]

Yeah. I think you definitely just shouldn't read. Do you read comments now?

[A]

I am pretty good about it. I still catch myself doing it. But I think not obsessively like I once did.

[B]

That's so much better.

[A]

It's so much better.

[B]

But you check your DMs. I DM'd you, so you're checking your DMs.

[A]

Yeah, I'll check for the DM for you. Yeah.

[B]

How about romantically? Are you ever looking in the DMs?

[A]

No, not, no. But not right now. No.

[B]

You wouldn't date a fan?

[A]

Never. Never say never.

[B]

It's hard to say no to not dating a fan because like, who hasn't seen you in something like, oh, he's so cute. Like, of course they'd want to eat you. So it'd be weird if someone goes on date.

[A]

I don't know. I just said. Right.

[B]

Like, but if someone's like on a date, like, I have no idea who you are. Like, never saw you. Don't know what that is. Like, you know, that's like not real.

[A]

I've had, I think I've had someone do the opposite where they pretended that they hadn't seen something And I'm like, that's weird to be, like, fake about it.

[B]

To be like, oh, you acted. And what. What have I seen you. And you list all the big shows you've done, and they're like, yeah, I think that's, like, weirder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Are you. So a couple years ago, you talk about this being in a manic episode for six months, and you do talk about it in the book.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I was, like, surprised because on Andy Cohen Watch what Happens Live, you were very much like, Plead the Fifth.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, like, this book, you're saying, like, everything. You say how you feel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You go, like, into.

[A]

Yeah, I go into it all. I mean, I think people thought I was kidding when I said that on Watch what Happens Live, and I fully was in a manic episode. I was not prescribed the right medication. I was. I think I was misdiagnosed for a little bit and, like, put on different things, and it was, you know, it was a trial of, like, what worked and what didn't. And I think when you have a personality disorder, some things can exacerbate and make you crazy.

[B]

That. So you're a borderline personality disorder, as am I, which is.

[A]

Oh, I love that. We BPD girlies.

[B]

Yes. Which when I was young, wasn't, like, a thing because I was misdiagnosed, too. I was, like, bipolar, taking lithium, you know, and it's just, like, that was. Made me absolutely insane to be on that. So once the borderline discovery came about, I was, like, 31 when I found out, and I was like, oh, this makes so much more sense. And then I could actually get to, like, the right therapy. Like you said, I was just getting medicated, which is something I didn't need. And then, like, when I got into the right therapy, I was just like, this is it. The group therapy. It was so much better.

[A]

You liked the group therapy?

[B]

Yeah. Did you do DBT classes?

[A]

Oh, my God. I did DBT classes and I couldn't stand them. Why? Well, I love hearing from other people's point of view and, like, connecting with that and being like, I feel less alone. You feel not crazy that you. You know when people talk about splitting or they talk about the manic episodes, or they talk about these intense relationships. That's beautiful and amazing. But I hated the DBT skills groups where they teach you, like, touching ice and, like, counting color. Counting, you know, counting things in your head and reorganizing when you're. It just felt like school. Did you feel that way?

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Like a worksheet of, like, how to be normal.

[B]

Yes. But I kind of needed it, like, even to say, like. Like you were saying, like, counting spaces in between your breath. I was like, oh, this actually helps.

[A]

Me calm down the breathing. I. Hard.

[B]

Yeah. It's kind of like meditation.

[A]

The breathing is something I do still.

[B]

I did what you were talking about.

[A]

They would do, like.

[B]

Like, touch ice. I never did that.

[A]

Yeah, they were like, when you're upset, you're gonna grab ice. And actually, to be fair, and there is merit to a lot of the things that they talk about. But I think for. For a while, I was like, guys, how much can we talk about touching ice and listening to opposite music? That was a big thing. What was that? I don't know if you're, like, going. If you're manic or you're like, you know, you're dealing with an intense breakup. You're not gonna listen to breakup music. You're gonna listen to, like, I'm feeling good again and I'm feeling happy and, you know, some Selena Gomez or something.

[B]

Is that what you listen to?

[A]

For sure, yeah.

[B]

That's what you switch. So, like, Andrew, I never heard that, but that makes sense, too.

[A]

It makes sense, but it just was, like, doing those classes over and over again. I was like, God, I can't do it anymore.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. They were like, so what do you do something now? Do you do. Yeah, you just do, like, individual.

[A]

I do individual DBT therapy and CBT therapy.

[B]

I love. I have, like, the little flashcards that I do. It's so good. So I love that during. So, yeah, being in a relationship when you're, like, untreated or unmedicated or not doing the work is actually the scariest thing ever. And it's wild to see because it was so public. And both of you guys are very private in general. I mean, you both have books coming out now, but both of you are private in general. And then now it's like, all of a sudden, you're, like, getting married on, like, the Kardashians and, like, in the most extravagant way. How did. I guess. You said you were manic. But does it take two to do that? Because also, like, he's also like, yeah, let's do this in six months. You know what I mean? Or just in love.

[A]

No, it was less than that to get married. It was. It was like a couple. Yeah, it was really quick.

[B]

Was your mom there, too, right?

[A]

My mom was there, I think. You know, I can't speak for his experience of it, but I do Think it takes two to tango. But I think I was also like, I wanted love so bad that when someone proposed or asked me to do this and was so in, I was just like, let's go.

[B]

Is this your first proposal? Was it your first?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it was my first.

[B]

I'm surprised someone like you, I feel like, would have lots of proposals.

[A]

Oh, my God. Coming from you. Yeah. I'll be your guys third.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Have you ever done that? I love it. A little throuple.

[A]

Not dating throuple, but that's kind of.

[B]

Everything you find them on. Like Tinder is where I see your throuples.

[A]

What's the other one? Field or something with the threesome one. No, Field.

[B]

Yeah, Phoebe's like.

[A]

Phoebe's like. I've been on that one.

[B]

Sponsored by.

[A]

I love sponsored by Field.

[B]

No, I love it. They call them like unicorns when you're like your third. Yeah, I love to be a third.

[A]

Me too. I like being the third.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never want to share when I'm in the cup. I'm like, it's about me.

[B]

No, that sounds even just now. I know it was a joke. I was like. I often threatened. I was like, oh, my gosh, what if I'm kicked out of this? What am I like, not in this. Like, that was like. It terrifies me because I'm so. Well, we're the same. I'm so, like, jealous and so. I don't know, Like, I'm insecure too, I suppose. I don't know. I like to be a third because then they give you all the attention.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're. You're the special one. You're the unicorn.

[B]

Yes. Which we love. Growing up, were you shy? Were you outgoing?

[A]

I think it's the same thing with the book and the title and the thing of my whole life of, like, wanting attention and being this like, exhibitionist, but also being like, really shy and like, quiet at the same time. I think I was always like that. Even as a kid. I was like this quiet, meek kid at school. But then I'd go to the summer camp and be like the biggest and be performing on stage and like dancing and singing and like a completely different kid.

[B]

Wait, what kind of summer camp was it? Acting.

[A]

They had acting in it. It was like acting, Singing, mov stunts, paintballing. Like, it was the weirdest camp. Yeah, it was very bizarre.

[B]

Do you remember? We can bleep it. Do you remember the names? I feel like I went to one too. Oh, okay. Okay. Cause I was in The Carlsbad area. And I did Christian Youth cyt and it was like.

[A]

Christian Youth cyt?

[B]

Yeah. Did you do cyt?

[A]

I did cyt.

[B]

That was like, my thing.

[A]

Wait, why were you in Carlsbad area?

[B]

Yeah, I was in Carlsbad. Our age difference. But I was in Carlsbad when I was. My dad lived there, so it was like, from 5 to 15. I would do summer camps there.

[A]

Wait, wait, every summer you would go to Carlsbad?

[B]

My dad. Yeah. He still lives out in Temecula. But yeah, he's always. Ever since I was a kid, because I was born here in Riverside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then we moved back to Illinois. But I always come visit my dad in the summers, and I love that area. So, like, I saw Encinitas in San Diego. My brother was in La Jolla. Like, he lived there for so long, went to USD, all that. So I love San Diego. Anyways, I thought, do we go? But no. We're also a big age difference, so.

[A]

We wouldn't have been there. No, I mean, I wish I would have run into you. I. I was. Yeah. Carlsbad. I did middle school for. Because it was next to the Encinitas border. Yeah, I did cycle. Yeah, I did all that. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I would go to Ponto beach all the time. And Carlsbad.

[B]

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[A]

I was for a little bit. Yeah, it was horrible. But I think like, you know, it is in north county, like if you don't surf, you're a loser.

[B]

Did you ever go to the North County Fair Mall?

[A]

Oh, my God. Always in the Del Mar Fair.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

No, that's the best. Those are. That area is just like a cute.

[A]

It is.

[B]

I love it. Okay, so are you singing at camp? Are you acting?

[A]

Oh, yeah, I did everything. I did. I made little movies. I would like direct these movies and learn how to do Final Cut Pro and make these little zombie films and. Oh my God, I was obsessed. I did Rockstar Camp for a little bit and made like a single.

[B]

So you sing.

[A]

I'm horrible. I can't sing. I just like to pretend I'm not like you. I don't have.

[B]

Well, first of all, I'm also horrible.

[A]

I've heard the songs. I love your songs.

[B]

I did a whole tour just like totally off pitch, just singing to a track, just living my best life. But I feel like if you did an album, if you did a single, you must be somewhat good. You must have some.

[A]

No, I think like it was like a bunch of like 12 year olds that were all off key, like making a song.

[B]

And you were the lead singer, though.

[A]

I was. I was a lead for it. They put a lot of auto tune in, but yeah, it was fun.

[B]

Oh, wow. At least you had auto tune. When I was a kid, we definitely didn't have that. Okay. But then you talk about one of the first. I think it's the Intro of your book, basically, is just how you were bullied in school. And you said you were shy. So what, were they threatened by you? What were they bullying you for?

[A]

In sixth grade in Carlsbad, I went to this school, and I decided I was gonna be, like, this jock bro. I decided not to be that quiet kid anymore. And I became friends with the popular kids, and I smoked a cigarette with. And then the next day, we stole my brother's Lucky Strike cigarette. The next day, he told the whole school that I pinned him down and forced him to smoke a cigarette. So the whole school, like, hated me.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. They would, like, hit me with, like, BB guns and, like, bully me, and it was ruthless. Like, these kids were tough, and it was a lie. I know. Yeah. He wanted to smoke a cigarette.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He didn't, like, force him to pin.

[A]

Someone down and force him to smoke a cigarette. Oh, my God. We watched the movie Thirteen, I think, and wanted to smoke cigarettes to be like Evie Zamora and Tracy.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah. That movie was life changing. Yeah.

[A]

Life changing changed my DNA. And then so, like. Yeah, they just. They ruined my life. And my mom, for the last three months of sixth grade was like, you're not going to school. You're gonna. We lived in Encinitas, so there was no reason to go to Carlsbad school anyway. But she was like, you're gonna go to a new school in Encinitas. And then I found my friends.

[B]

And then you had, like, a transformation. You're like, this is a new school, new start.

[A]

Yeah. And I was like, I'm not gonna be with. Like, I'm gonna be tough. I just wouldn't let. I was changed, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, maybe a little bit of a. Cause I wasn't gonna let people be mean to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah. Then I met my best friends. Yeah. Still have best friends with them from.

[B]

High school, I guess. Seventh grade. Really?

[A]

On seventh grade? Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's amazing.

[A]

That's like.

[B]

That's hard. Especially with Borderline. It's really hard to, like, keep friends. Like, I don't even know.

[A]

Do you find that a lot? Like, because their relationships are so intense, and you have these fallouts. And to be honest with the. In sixth grade, like, the cigarette thing wasn't my fault, but I would have other things that were, like, relationships were so intense. Like, if they would beat me in handball, like, I would want to fight them and, like, go crazy. Like, there was, like, those emotions you can't control. So it had some Justification that I was probably, like, a nightmare to be friends with.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, same. To this day, I always tell people, like, I'm a horrible friend. You don't want to be friends with me.

[A]

I say that, too.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I bad at texting, and I. And I'm better now controlling emotions, like, the all or nothing thing. But I was the exact same way. I was. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can, like, control it now. But also, I don't have friends now, so it's easier to.

[A]

I don't really either.

[B]

Not lash at me.

[A]

I have, like, two and. But. And the ones I have, are they.

[B]

You have a bestie.

[A]

I have a bestie. I have two. I said, you're one of them. She has put up with so much. I've been one of the worst friends of all time to her.

[B]

Aww.

[A]

And she's stuck through it.

[B]

I love him.

[A]

Aw.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Do you ever think maybe this is, like, not a great question to ask, but do you ever think, like, you could, like, get married to each other?

[A]

No. We talk about all the time and, like, what is.

[B]

What's the outcome? What's the discussion? I think we're just waiting.

[A]

I think we're waiting for the right time.

[B]

The first thing you said was, I'm his Moses. And it caught me off guard.

[A]

I was like, okay, I'm his Moses.

[B]

I was like, wait, I love this. It's a different coming out. I was like, okay, we love this.

[A]

So much opposite coming out. I'm dead.

[B]

Isn't it, like. Cause it is like, me with sexuality and gender, I'm always just, like, all over the place with it. So I always just think if you're in love with someone or you connect with someone. Right. Someone saw you through the hardest. Don't you feel maybe this is the borderline that you're like, wow, I'm in love. Cause I fall in love with everybody, too.

[A]

I've fallen in love so many times. No, I agree completely. First of all, I do think it's a spectrum, and I think people lie somewhere on whatever end or in the middle or whatever. But, yeah, I fully get what you're saying. I've connected with. So can I. Can I talk about one video that you posted that I really please the I'm a chicken nugget one, having a manic episode and being on the floor. And, like, I actually understand that sentiment. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know it's crazy, or maybe it wasn't, like, articulated right, but I knew exactly what you felt in that moment, I swear to God.

[B]

I appreciate you saying that. I feel like I'm getting emotional over this because it is such a meme, and it's, like, so silly, and I can, like, acknowledge it, but, like, yes, those were all, like, valid feelings. It was, like, a manic episode, and, like, the fact that anybody could understand that. I appreciate that.

[A]

I really do. And I totally get it, too. I get what it's like to have, like, a meme of. I mean, I didn't have a meme, but I had people, like, clearly, like, coming for me, being like, you're in full fur with straightened hair, and, like, you looked hot. Thank you. I looked insane.

[B]

But Rock of Love, as you called.

[A]

It, I loved it. Rock of Love. Oh, my God, you should have been on Rock of Love.

[B]

I would have loved more.

[A]

Bret Michaels would have loved you.

[B]

Well, I interviewed him for my old podcast issue with Trish during quarantine, and their PR person said, just don't ask about Rock of Love. And I was like, that's all I care about.

[A]

That's all I can talk about.

[B]

That's all I want to know about it. Because that show was my everything.

[A]

It was my everything.

[B]

You must have been a child watching a child.

[A]

I watched it with my mom in middle school. I was obsessed.

[B]

What are your other siblings doing while you're watching with your mom? Are you all watching Family Time Together? Rock of Love?

[A]

No, it was just me and my mom. It was our. It was our bonding time.

[B]

I really hope Aquaman turns out like you.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Watching.

[A]

I need to be Aquaman's godfather and show him the way.

[B]

That would be everything. I feel like that would be amazing. Absolutely. Yes. Do it. We have a baptism coming up in a couple months.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

So I. Yeah, I was obsessed with that show, and I was a little too young. I was 20. I was about to be 21 when they did Rock of Love Bust.

[A]

Like, every contestant on the show was your.

[B]

I know, but, like, you had to be 21 to drink, right? So I was, like, 20. I was, like, right at the cutoff, and I was devastated. I was.

[A]

Do you remember the girl from Rock of Love Bust, Marcia, who threw up her Doritos? Yeah.

[B]

Do you know her?

[A]

Oh, I was just obsessed with her. That was like my. That's how I envisioned love to be. Like, I wanted to be Bret Michaels. I wanted to have a group of people to go on dates with and fall in love with, and that was my, like, peak romance as a kid.

[B]

I feel like Bring back the furry coat.

[A]

Bring back.

[B]

And the leather pants. And you could do it. You could do a reboot.

[A]

I don't know. I looked a little bit like Siegfried and Roy or something during that. I heard you say that before.

[B]

They're wearing white, tight glitter. You guys are in black leathers. Like, you are giving.

[A]

I don't know, like, you know, we were giving something. I. I was.

[B]

I like the matching. By the way, find a partner who will match with you. That's everything.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That. Yeah, that's cute.

[B]

Me romanticizing your horrible marriage. But I was like, I loved it.

[A]

I love the fits. The fits weren't quite. Yeah, they weren't. They weren't quite what I wanted it to be.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

What would you have done? I wanted it, you know, it was a last. It was a very last minute wedding. It was a very last minute decision. It was literally there was not thought put into it. So I wish I could have just had a little bit more time to curate a look. But also I was manic. So I think at the time I thought it looked awesome.

[B]

What would you have done different now or for the next wedding?

[A]

The next wedding. I think just like a little bit more. I think I would lose the fur of it all.

[B]

Okay, no fur. Anyways.

[A]

I think the fur is not. I mean, the fur in Vegas and like 100 degree weather was so insane.

[B]

I loved. I really did, but I get you. Okay, so no fur. Are you sticking with the. Was it vinyl or leather you're wearing?

[A]

It was leather.

[B]

No leather anymore.

[A]

No, no. Maybe like a latex. Sweating would be. That'd be hot, right?

[B]

Vinyl's probably less sweaty.

[A]

Vinyl's a little less sweaty, but I think, like, fully lean in. It was like quite, like, not. Not quite figured out yet.

[B]

Okay, so you do want to go, like, scandalous for the next one. You're not gonna go traditional, like, down the aisle. Tuxedo, Montecito.

[A]

No, Montecito.

[B]

Yeah, I think you'd be like getting married at the Rosewood or something.

[A]

Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, I could maybe. Maybe to switch it up this time from the White Chapel to the Rosewood.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I could see it for you. I love envisioning weddings, like, since I was a little kid. Were you, like, dreaming of, like, weddings when you were little or. Not really.

[A]

Not really. I just. I was just. I loved love so much. I would envision love. And I think I was, I think, addicted to love from an early age. Even, like the girlfriends I had in middle school and high School, like, they were my life. I would obsess over them.

[B]

We really love that. What would you do for them?

[A]

Just, like, had to be with. I think it's like a BPD thing. Like with a favorite person. You heard that term where like, yeah, like, that's. They're your world. You can't live without them. Their approval and their validation is everything to you. And if you don't get, like. I would have to be on aim with them all the time. Time. Or Facebook Messenger. And then MySpace. And then @ night, like, we'd be on the phone till like four in the morning and my mom would be like, you have to go to bed.

[B]

Oh, my God, that's so. You're like the dream boyfriend, though. Especially, like, girls in, like, middle school. Like, guys are like, not interested in girls like that. Like, they are, like, embarrassed by them, whatever. And I feel like you were like the dream winner. You're, like, obsessed with them.

[A]

Seemed like a closeted personality disorder.

[B]

Did they know. Did they know that you were gay in high school?

[A]

I talk about this girl in the book with a lower back tattoo. Love in my life. Like, truly ahead of her time. The most iconic person of all time. And she and I would, you know, we'd have sex and then she'd be like, I think that. I think you might be. I don't think you're gay, but maybe you're bi. And I'd be like, what do you mean? Like, no, I'm not. I'm not at all. And she'd be like, I don't know. I think that there's just something about you. She was like, how'd she know? She was intuitive. She was a witch. She knew. She knew what was up, but she was cool with it. And she was like, I'll, like, I'm down. Like, you can do it. She would fully have pegged me.

[B]

I did it to many a boyfriend and they swear they're straight, which I might honestly. Whatever.

[A]

They say there's a thing with the clit down the prostate. What did they say?

[B]

There's a clit in the prostate. Who said that?

[A]

I don't know. Read it somewhere.

[B]

Peggy's underrated. And I feel like most guys, like, even like guys like fingers, toothbrushes, straight or what, you know what I mean? Like, a little bit of everything. But yeah, that's so interesting too. So I. I consider myself a witch too, but I definitely did not know. I think you're a witch for sure.

[A]

You're like. You're tapped into something.

[B]

Yeah, you are. The spell work of it all. Yeah. Do you identify with any spiritual.

[A]

I mean, I'm. I'm woo woo as like, I. I go to psychics all the time. I mean, I went to two in particular. I went to Teresa Caputo, the Long island medium.

[B]

Stop it.

[A]

And I went to Tyler Henry, the Hollywood medium. Those two.

[B]

Was it filmed both of them or.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

You just went for yourself.

[A]

I'd like. I slid in the DM like I did with you, begging to come on and talk to you. I did Teresa's podcast as like a thank you. She. She did it with me and my mom, but, I mean, it's real. I don't. I don't care what anyone says.

[B]

Mediums are like. They talk to the dead.

[A]

Yeah. And the things that they would say and the. You. I just. It's so specific. It's so. I mean, she would, like, channel them. And it was. It actually gives me a peace of mind because I stress about death and what happens when we die. And that was. Those two scenarios were the two things that, like, put me at peace.

[B]

What was it? What was it about it? Cause I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

[A]

I think that just, like, really. I think with like, my best friend Tessa, my grandma that I talk about in the book, like, really feeling like the things that the messages that she was saying were. There's just no way that Teresa Kaputa the Long island media and could have talked to anybody and found out specific conversations, specific things that we ate together and the way that she would act and talk with them. I could, like, I felt like I was with them and I. And it just. I felt. I felt them with me, and I felt like there's more than just the physical life. I just. Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

Did they say anything, like, specifically where, like, we're okay or you just knew that they were there?

[A]

Well, Tessa made fun of my tattoo that I got for her. Cause I got this massive tattoo for her, and she was like, why do you have a cross on you? What is going on? That is the most insane tattoo ever. It's a crazy tattoo that I have her. And bringing up meals that we had had, like, specific meals and just feeling like. I think she said something to my grandma said. Which I was before I even wrote in the book. But, like, my grandma saying, like, don't worry about not having enough time. We had so much time together because that last little era when I was manic, I, like, abandoned my whole family. I didn't Talk to anyone.

[B]

Oh, during the marriage?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And during. Yeah, during the week of Everything fell apart was the week that my grandma died. And, like. Oh, no.

[B]

So she was still alive during all that?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Did she try to reach out to you and you were just not having it. You were just like. I know.

[A]

I think I was just to everyone. And I would. I would see her once in a while or I would pick up a call, but I wasn't. I wasn't there the way that I should have been.

[B]

But I don't think it's your fault. Like, again, it's the borderline.

[A]

You got swept up.

[B]

Yeah. Being in love, I mean, that was, like, the first week we met, too. It was like, I was, like, so in love, but I was also, like, very. And I remember my. I remember, like, my favorite. My only relative that I, like, care about, my Uncle Joe, he, like, passed away that week we met. And I didn't even know because I wasn't even looking at my phone. Like, I was obsessed with him. I was, like, doing, like, Xanax, just being, like, blacked out, and I was like, oh, my God, I didn't even know. Like, it's a scary thing. And then you feel bad, and then you're like, well, where was I? And you're, like, just being in love and up.

[A]

Yeah. And she literally said that in the thing. Like, you were in love, you were doing your thing. We had so much. We had more time together than most grandmas and grandsons did. Like, do not worry about that time.

[B]

What a crazy time. So your marriage is ending publicly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your grandma passes away, and I see.

[A]

My dad for the first time in a decade at the same. And, like, I mean, like, being in a room with him more than two minutes, you know, dealing with, like, his mom dying, my grandma dying, and having to actually have a conversation.

[B]

His mom?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you were close with her, but not your dad?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And do you. You didn't grow up with him?

[A]

I grew up with him until I was a teenager, and then he kind of drifted away, basically. Yeah. Got remarried and had kids without telling us and. Yeah.

[B]

Just started a whole new family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have a relationship with him now?

[A]

I. Yeah. No, we do. I mean, it's not. We see each other, like, once or twice a year. I think part of this book, honestly, was having forgiveness. And I think that you can only love to the extent that you were taught to love. And I think I. I humanized my dad. Oh, my God. I. Yeah, I humanized him during this thing because. Oh, my God, Trisha. I spent a lot of time, you know, hating him and resenting him. And in that moment when I saw him with our grandma, like, I. I saw him as a kid, you know, and I'm like, our parents are just, like, wounded kids and doing the best and loving to the best of their abilities, and they grew up in a different era of, like, you know, they weren't. They weren't given that, you know, and they weren't learned. They didn't learn to go to therapy and do that. So, like, I don't. I didn't blame him so much. And. And I could see him in that moment. Like, I never had seen my dad cry my whole entire life. And all I wanted to do. I write in the book, I want to do, see my dad cry, like, a little. And I saw him do it to, like, get emotional and see him as a. As a human. And so, yeah, we have a fractured relationship, but we have a relationship. And I say in the book, like, I. I hate my dad, but I love him as a person, you know, he's my dad, you know.

[B]

Relationship.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

To be. What age was. Did he. Were you, like, 13?

[A]

I was like, 13 when he started. Yeah, he started kind of just distancing himself. And then when I was 16, it was revealed that he had gotten married and two twins were about to come out. I was just like, what the f. And I think, you know, I think with the borderline stuff, like the abandonment.

[B]

Abandonment is the scariest. I think it's the scariest. Fear, attachment, style, all of it, like, just that codependency. Like, you'll have it. I have it, I think, for life. I don't think I'll ever, like, get over no amount of therapy. Like, I always tell them I was. I'm like, just don't, like, leave me in the middle night. Like, that's my thing with my dad is, like, we left in the middle of the night, and I never, like, saw him for a while, for a couple years. And it's like. So whenever people would leave, even if it was a hookup, like, in the middle of the night, I'd be, like, pissed. Like, oh, my God. I'd cuss them out. I'd be like, what the. Like, you know, and it's like, abandonment. But that's a very interesting age because that's 16, right? Like, you're aware. I was, like, three. So you're not, like, fully aware, but, like, 16. You're fully aware that, like, oh, he's not here.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, 100. I. I think. Yeah. It's like, it's almost. There's some other confusing things that happen in the book that I talk about at a younger age that you can't really identify. You can't really put words to, like, those experiences and those things. But I think at 16, when you have that happen, like, it's so. It's so painful. It's so. And it's, it's. It's clear. You're like you are being replaced. But yeah, that was. That was a really, really crazy, crazy week.

[B]

I can't even imagine. And seeing him after 10 years and then going through all that, it's like, it's a lot.

[A]

When we had seen each other here and there and there was a thing that I actually cut from the book, but like, I had run into him at the Grove with his new family.

[B]

At what age is this? Are you like, famous now or are you still.

[A]

No, no, I was like, struggling. I was like, just auditioning and stuff and. And like acknowledging each other at the Grove.

[B]

So you. What did you say? What'd you do? That's it.

[A]

It was like a really. Because he was with the wife and I never. It's really complicated, but like, I never. I. Yeah, it was just so. There was moments like that where we'd run into each other or I'd have like a lunch with him or something for. But it was. It was never more than like 20 minutes. So, you know, I spent three days straight in my grandma's apartment with him and having to like reconcile and have a normal conversation and not like a surface level, 20 minute lunch once a year or running into him because he lives in LA too.

[B]

That's. That would be tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Having to see. Do you think any of that had to do with like, your marriage ending or is it two separate things for you?

[A]

Personally, I think it was. I think to me it was two separate things. I think at that moment. I think at that moment it's like any bull, any resentment, any fights, any arguments we had had to be put to the side because we were just there for the same reason to be there for, you know, the person that we loved and cared about so much that like all the other just went away. You know, there's more. More important stuff to talk about and focus on. You know, so in a way it was kind of, I don't know, maybe. Maybe a blessing.

[B]

And this is two years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So two years later, how are you feeling about everything? And you have a book Coming out, which is amazing.

[A]

It's so crazy. I can't believe I wrote a book. It's psychotic.

[B]

That is what made you. Because you are so private everywhere. I know he said I wrote this for attention, but are you, like, prepared? Like, are you?

[A]

I don't know if I am. Honestly, like, I think it's so crazy because I spent two years or a year actually writing it completely, but two year process of doing this whole thing. And it was great. I was in the privacy of my own home and I could kind of, like really dig into myself and not lie and not bull. Like, I had to really be honest. And that felt good. And now I'm like, oh, I have to share it with the world. That's crazy. That's insane. Did I say too much? Did I do? I don't know, but I think. I think we'll find out. We'll find out. I'm sure people will hate on it and I'm sure people will be say I'm an oversharer and it's polarizing, but, like, so am I. Yeah. You know, like, I think that's why I connect with you a lot, actually. Like, I think people can think that you're polarizing or a lot. And I think people think I'm like, a loudmouth and probably say too much and shut up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe I'm a little bit, like, too desperate and giddy, but, like, that's who I am. That's who you are.

[B]

We love desperation. Delulu.

[A]

We love Delulu.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Connect to you.

[B]

Same. When I read this book, especially, like, the lying part, I think it was so interesting because I literally was saying before I got here to Phoebe, I was like. I felt like I was reading because I'm trying to start to write a book too. And literally my first one is like, just so you all know, I'm like, I'm a liar sometimes. I'm trying. Like you said, I'm trying. But here's the thing maybe you relate to. It is like sometimes you lie so much to yourself. Right. Like, I try not to get anyone else in trouble. Like, I lied to, like, protect myself or whatever. Like that. But sometimes you lies about so many things or so, you know, you start believing their truth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have to, like, really? Because I have someone, like, helping me and I'm like, let me get back to you on this. Because I actually don't remember if I just said it happened this way or it did happen this way. And it's like, really hard to sometimes when you're a liar. Differentiate my lying right now. You know, it's like so hard. Have you lied during this interview?

[A]

Probably somewhere in there sometimes. Me too, somewhere. I'm sure I do.

[B]

The comments will clock me. I'll be like, oh, I've never had a hot dog. And they'll be like, when Lizzo was on, I was like, oh, I never had a salad or vegetables. Cut to me eating like so many salads. And I was like, totally. But I didn't know in the time. Sometimes I just had to eat.

[A]

Well, I think you say it so much that you start to believe it and you're like, I don't know. I think it's like a really lying I talk about in the book. It's a survival tool and I did it as a kid to kind of rewrite what I wanted my reality to be or what I wanted the truth to be. And it worked great. It was a amazing way to not deal with your and I think it just stopped serving me as much. But I still am caught doing little lies. It's more like embellishments to make things more interesting or tell a story better or it's never to deliberately hurt people.

[B]

Like, maybe it was before I think I saw one. You said smile too. Yeah, I think it was on the red carpet of that you were like, I saw the blood and I was puking over it. And then you're like, maybe it was more of a dry heaven. And I was like, oh, I do that all the time too.

[A]

I mean, like, impress junkets. I lie so much. I mean, it's just the same question over and over and over and over.

[B]

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[A]

Now again and to the point where like, I'm just gonna lie for myself because it's. That's kind of fun.

[B]

Yeah, you're an actor too. You could be like, I was acting.

[A]

I was acting. Who cares? Who cares? Also, I do a game with other actors. If I'm doing a press junket with them and I'm like, you have to use this word in the next prompt and you have to lie about something.

[B]

Oh my God, did they do it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it gets boring you have to. There's nothing wrong with it if you're not hurting anyone.

[A]

Look, I think the point of them is to, like, get clickbait and watch. Make people watch the movie. So, of course.

[B]

How do we clickbait this?

[A]

How do we click? Probably me crying about my daddy on Trisha's podcast.

[B]

Could you imagine? That's what we're saying is, like, his abandonment. Yeah. His daddy issues led him to his divorce. You know, like, that'd be.

[A]

I think I feel safe with you. I think I did not.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've never cried in an interview.

[B]

Well, I appreciate, like, the realness, because I think so many people, like, don't talk about it. And again, especially you, you know, you're someone who is relatively private until this book. And it's, you know, it's emotion.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And it's like, I don't know. You have also, like, really good eye contact. So when we, like, look at each other, like, are we the same person?

[A]

No, I know. I feel. I feel tapped in. And I love that we're both cluster B personality girlies. What the hell?

[B]

Actually, though, no, it's so weird. Like, so many of the similarities are that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, being borderline and being. Having all these issues, you are still very successful. I would love. Because, like I said, you're living my dream life. And still at 37, I'm hoping to get my big break. So how did, like, your first one. Your first big break is Euphoria.

[A]

Yeah. I would say that was, like. That show was massive. 20, 20, 19.

[B]

Okay, so this is before your viral audition.

[A]

Before my viral. Yeah.

[B]

So you get euphoria. How do you get this? I feel like that's what everyone needs to know is, like, do you have an agent?

[A]

Well, I. This is a crazy story I tell in the book. I lied again. I lied to a Louisiana agent for this movie called Assassination Nation. I auditioned in la. They gave it to some famous person, and I was like, this is the coolest script ever. I have to do it. Lied, get a Louisiana agent. Then she goes, okay, you have to come read with me tomorrow if you want to read for this movie. I fly out that day, meet this lady, audition for her audition for Sam Levinson's movie Assassination Nation, where I met Phoebe in the room. I fell asleep on a park right before I went in. So I was completely sunburned, out of breath, deathly hungover, and won them over in the room and then had to figure out a couch to sleep on the couch in Assassination Nation. Then that led to Euphoria. Because I met Sam and he wanted to give me another shot. And I think that's the thing is being that scrappy, bold, just taking a chance, being dilulu. Maybe a little bit of lying.

[B]

Lying. I lied all the time on my resume. I said I was an extra in Titanic, that I was one of the children in the ocean Frozen. And everyone believed it. When I first came, they were gagged. You worked for James Tamron? I was like, yeah, I was five dead. Yeah.

[A]

I would lie and say I went to, like, some university. I'd always do something, like, niche that people wouldn't hear about and, like, lie about. Like, I did a pilot called One of the Two, and it's, like, about Twins on abc. It just didn't get picked up. But I was the lead. Like, I would lie on all my resumes.

[B]

You kind of have to, because how do you build a resume without having a resume?

[A]

I would lie to agents, and the agents in la, I would lie and say, hey, we met at this place. And they were like, I'm blanking on that memory. I don't remember that. And I'm like, I promise gaslighting at that point. Just gaslighting these agents.

[B]

I do, too. My MySpace name was Tricia Tarantino. I was 18 years old, and everyone was like, oh, are you, like, married to Quentin Tarantino? And I was like, oh, we're just related. And they're like, oh. So I would get invited to, like, so many things because I was, like, 18, fresh. And they were like, oh, my God, this is. This. She knows Quentin Tarantino. She's, you know, I'm his niece. I'm his whatever, you know, I just, like, lie about anything. And probably why Quentin is, like, scared of me. I mean, he was really nice to me when I met him a few times when I was early on. But. Okay, wait, so you have euphoria? Which, by the way, I was gonna tell you this before, but I was, like, saving it for camera. Is like. We were trying to watch it because, like, a couple, like a year ago we tried to watch it because everyone keeps talking about it. And so we tried to watch it, and literally, after. What was it? Was it the first episode or second episode? Your big scene? Yeah. And I was just like. That's when we, like, turned it off. I was just like, honestly, too real. Like, you know, it's too. I guess, good. You're a good actor. But I really was just like, this feels too real. I don't know. We never finished past the second episode. That was it. It was like. And I wanted to because everyone, like, loved the second season and Stu. Yeah, it was. It's pretty intense.

[A]

It's intense. It's a hard watch.

[B]

Are you like, do you have to, like, trigger yourself to do those kind of things or do you get re. Traumatize yourself or can you separate it?

[A]

Okay, well, I think this is something that we can agree on or we can connect on is like, there's a lot of bad parts about having a personality disorder, but I think the one good part about it is we can get emotional and get to those places and get very worked up easily. Right. I think, I think for a little bit in la and when that happened, it was like, it was easy for me to go to those intense, you know, big scenes that if they needed someone to do that, that was like. I was like, oh, perfect. I'm the guy for that. Like, I got you on there. Leading Charming man was a little bit harder for me to tap into, but then.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. It still is.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Why do I feel like on White Lotus, you're leading Charming Man?

[A]

I'm literally in the background.

[B]

No, you literally get the sex scene.

[A]

I mean, I get. Now that's like what's memorable about it.

[B]

But, like, which is my favorite scene? I say it publicly so much. I love Murray Bartlett more than anything. I love him. I love him in everything he's done.

[A]

He is so talented. He is so hot.

[B]

He's hot, right?

[A]

Oh, my God, he's so hot. And he's just like, so sweet. Yeah. We all came up with the idea of getting together that day.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

Yeah, it was supposed to be sexual.

[B]

And you were like, let's do this.

[A]

I was like, we've seen sex. Come on, let's eat some. That's.

[B]

And so is your mom watching this? You, like, let them watch it or.

[A]

No, my mom. I did. Yes, my mom and my grandma, I think. I didn't tell. I didn't tell them about the eating for some reason. I remember my mom, like, had a watch party with, like, her friends and I'm like, getting full blown eating out and she was like, love your butt. But, like, next time can you please.

[B]

Give me a warning?

[A]

Give me a warning when I have my friends over to watch.

[B]

You parents with friends is, like, a little hard, but I do think you, like, made the show. I really do. Because I don't think we had heard of White Lotus before that scene. You know, it was like the first season, obviously. And yeah, I had no idea. But then everyone was talking about that, and I was like, well, let's watch it.

[A]

Yeah. It was funny to have it be, like, a zeitgeisty moment on Twitter and stuff when that happened, because it was, like, I said it was something that we came up with in the moment of, like, let's just do instead. That's funnier.

[B]

Oh, my God. So iconic. They need more of that on screen.

[A]

I think they do. They have pegging on screen in Hunting Wives, if you've been watching that.

[B]

No, I'm. See, that's my, like, little kink. So I need to watch it.

[A]

You got to do. You got to.

[B]

Is it graphic?

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[B]

Wow. I haven't watched it yet.

[A]

You're going to love it.

[B]

It's on Netflix.

[A]

It's like, wigs. Yeah.

[B]

Are you in it?

[A]

No, I wish. I would love to be. Oh, my God, I'd love to be in that one.

[B]

Do you have, like, a contract with Netflix where you, like, have to be in, like, everything?

[A]

No.

[B]

I feel like you are, like, you. You were just, like, in that, and you're, like, in so many things. And I was like, oh, I know.

[A]

I don't know. I would love a contract. I would love to stop auditioning.

[B]

I would love you to audition stuff.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You can't just show, like, your, like, literally resume at this point. Real resume.

[A]

I wish. No, I still am. I'm still fighting. Fighting the fight.

[B]

Okay, I need to talk about this moment, because it's, like, my favorite viral moment of yours is obviously I watched it, and I was like, this is so insane. And it's the audition clip from 2020 that you posted, and you posted it yourself. It wasn't even, like, leaked. Okay, this is wild. You never said what you auditioned for. You don't have to say what you were auditioning for. But what. What. Like, how did that happen? You know what I mean? Like, how. How did that even happen? Did he think he was on mute?

[A]

Like, I. Yeah, I think it was. It was actually the audition before the White Lotus. It was another fox. I already said the show. It was a fox show. You could say it. And I think it was my first audition of the Pandemic, so I was like, I need a job. I need something, and I'm getting ready to do the scene. We're, like, doing our hellos and whatever, and everyone turns their screen to black and mutes, and I hear his. His British voice.

[B]

Why would he say that? That's so random.

[A]

You know, I Don't think. I don't know if he was really even trying to come for me or, like, trying to be belittling with whoever he was with. I think he was maybe, like, trying to show sympathy in like a kind of odd way. But I wasn't that serious. It wasn't that deep. It was just really hilarious to me in the moment that he wasn't muted.

[B]

No, but your reaction is scared. You're like, ooh. Like, you're like, oh, it's actually not. Yet. You handled it well. You are so quick on your feet. If that was me, especially with Borderline, I'd be like, who the are you? Let's see your apartment. Let's see. Turn on your light again. You know what I mean?

[A]

It was a sick apartment.

[B]

He did. Oh, you saw it?

[A]

It was nice.

[B]

Yours also didn't look bad just because you had a tv.

[A]

It wasn't bad? No, it wasn't bad. And I think, you know, I think maybe if it was like, being like, oh, it sucks that he's in the pandemic with his living room and his bedroom is the same room and whatever. I think he was maybe sympathizing or anything, but I think I was like, wait, why are we talking? Why is someone talking about my apartment while I'm acting? And now why am I self conscious about this apartment? Did I do the paint job?

[B]

Yeah, you love your Honda. Why can't you love.

[A]

I love my Honda Fit. I love my studio. I miss that studio.

[B]

Oh, you're not in there anymore.

[A]

No, I had to. It was, like, haunted after that video.

[B]

Oh, really? Think it was cursed?

[A]

Well, I just, like a couple months later, month or two later, I got White Lotus. And then I got a little drunk and posted it in Hawaii.

[B]

This story is in your book. You talk about you're with Jennifer Coolidge. Are you sharing bad audition stories?

[A]

Yeah, it was like, Molly Shannon, Jennifer Coolidge, like the queens of comedy, just all talking about our worst audition story. And of course, being my little attention seeking self, I was like, I got the best story and I have it on video.

[B]

I mean, you did have the best. I don't think anyone could top it.

[A]

They were shook.

[B]

So they're like, you're like, so I'm gonna just post it.

[A]

And then, like, literally posted it and checked my phone eight hours later to Phoebe being like, are you okay? When I was like, what are you. What are you talking about? She's like, sweetie, you're viral.

[B]

No. And did you panic? You said in the book you kind of like, had a little.

[A]

Oh, well, you know, I think when I first posted it, I was like. I was like, giddy. I was like, I did it. I did it. And like, you know, sharing with a couple friends that would repost it. And then when I woke up from whatever nap or sleep I had and saw how big it got, then it started to be like, oh, did I just blow up my whole entire career?

[B]

Are you getting a call from anyone? Like, agents or.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. People were pissed at first. Yeah.

[B]

They're probably like, this looks so bad. Like, you're just exposing people and you're on a huge show. Which obviously wasn't huge at the time because it was new, but probably were like, have this good job right now in Maui.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, did I just blow this up? Am I a liability now? Am I just like the. And I remember offers were coming in, like, come on the Kelly Clarkson show. Come on the Drew Barrymore Show. We wanna do a renovation. I was like, no, no, put it to bed, Put it to bed. Put it to bed.

[B]

We were right. You love attention. You think this would be your moment.

[A]

That's the thing about the book. I love attention. And then when I get it, it's too much and I hate it. And I'm like, get me away. What did I do? I like small doses of attention.

[B]

Like, controlled attention.

[A]

I. From like a person. Like a individual person. Like, I like your attention right now. I like an attention from a partner. I like.

[B]

You don't like the world attention.

[A]

I used to. And now, like. And now I think in that moment that. And I thought I wanted it so bad and I. And I. I think I probably still do in ways, but, like, not like that. It's too much.

[B]

I just like, when you go out in public, do you like random people coming up to you?

[A]

No, I feel like I'm not. I'm like B minus list, C plus. Like the perfect amount where I get like one person a day.

[B]

That's a lot. That's a lot. Like, every time you go out, like, one person. That's a lot.

[A]

I think that is.

[B]

That's like famous. That's famous.

[A]

I feel like I. You know, I have some friends that are a list really famous. And I'm like. Seems so annoying, like, going out to eat with them and like, they can't. People won't leave them alone. I feel like if I went out with you, it would be, no, hell no. People would freak. The.

[B]

I do love a little mob. I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

You Like a little mob.

[B]

I used to. Not anymore, but when I'd go to New York, I'd like go see a show and I'd take a picture of the playbill like before. And then I'd come out and there'd be like a mob. That was a while ago.

[A]

New York's a different beast. New York is different.

[B]

Yeah. Cuz it's so close.

[A]

It's so close. And like there's so many people that like, I remember after White Lotus and I didn't get noticed in LA or whatever. And then I would go to New York and be like, wait, am I famous? Yeah.

[B]

Really? You got more people in New York? Oh, well, especially.

[A]

I think that was just like such a. Like a big moment and there's nothing on tv and I was in New York at that moment and. And. And I just think there's so many people run. People are not on their phones. Like in la. Like people are looking around and socializing.

[B]

That's true. Right? They see you more. Yeah, I guess if we were out together, I'd probably be like showing something in the background so people could see us.

[A]

Oh my God. Can we please post non stop together?

[B]

Be like this Epic Grove, the most popular place ever. Like just casually. Do you ever go to get noticed any place? Place like the Grove or Disneyland or somewhere?

[A]

No, not to get noticed. I wouldn't say.

[B]

You don't love to just meet fans around. I like, sometimes like crave it.

[A]

Oh, at Chili's. I love Chili's. I mean me, Meg, Stalter, Phoebe, Charlie. We like, we just do that for fun.

[B]

Wait. Oh, okay. I thought wigs was like a show.

[A]

No wigs. Like just like we put on wigs. Oh, my love.

[B]

Oh my gosh. When is that happening?

[A]

Well, whenever you want.

[B]

That would be everything. I love a triple dipper.

[A]

Oh, my God, the triple dipper.

[B]

The honey crisper chicken, the fried cheese pulls like that sounds so good. Speaking of May Salter, you're in this like, Hollywood like it group right now. Like it's you. I don't know how to say his last name, but I love him. Seems Owen. Theo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that how you say it? Makes dolls? Like you guys are in this group. Oh, God, you're an overcome state. You're in every. You're literally in everything. When we saw you in that. In that, like one episode, like, how the hell is he? And everything. It's crazy. Which I love, by the way. But how?

[A]

Jump, Scare gauge?

[B]

Trigger? Warning? No, it's everything. I feel like you are this, like, character. Like, you are Varsity Blues. You are like, if someone needs this look, you are that. But how did you guys all know each other? Are you, like, snl, where you all go to, like, Groundlings together or something? Or how do you all know each other? You're always together.

[A]

Yeah, I think. I think a lot of them are just. Because I do jump scares on multiple shows. I just go, like, from show to show, and I meet people on set and become friends with them and. And then, you know, like, the little Hollywood lame parties, and then you meet your people that are like, oh, thank God you're here. Thank God. Like, there's some fun people.

[B]

And maybe in Hollywood. Cause I was thinking, like, okay, you can't, like, maintain friendships. We were talking about earlier. But I guess, like, Hollywood people are kind of like, you just see each other at events and that's your friendships. Not necessarily with them, but just in general.

[A]

I don't really. No, I don't really. I think. Do I have friends? Do we have friends?

[B]

You have one, you have Phoebe.

[A]

We have, like, a couple, but it's just like. I don't know if you feel this way. It's, like, not the same anymore.

[B]

Friends.

[A]

Friends. And, like, having fun isn't fun anymore.

[B]

No. I don't even know, like, I don't even know what I would do for fun.

[A]

I don't eat either. I eat a lot. I do like, I. I love.

[B]

You do polit. I do reform replies. I know. We talked about it.

[A]

We have a lot of fun.

[B]

I went this morning and I'm obsessed anyways.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

That's fun.

[A]

I guess it's fun, but, like, I remember, like, going to parties in LA a decade ago, and everything felt so fun. People were, like, not so much. People had fun. I feel like it feels really performative now.

[B]

Do you think?

[A]

I do. I really do think, like, it's not the same or like something. Like something happened during the pandemic where I feel like people don't know how to socialize and have fun as much anymore.

[B]

I could see that. Maybe also too, like, TikTok like, everyone wants it for. I mean, me too included. I will. I went out last night for the first time ever in my life. I never go to clubs. I never do anything. And I, like, was. I was like, I think I should TikTok this. Like, I think everyone probably thinks that way. I'm 37 and I feel that way. So maybe that's what ruins it for people like you, who are not necessarily all about, like, can we just live in the moment?

[A]

Right, Right. And I'm not opposing. Like, look, I love taking pictures and all and doing that, but I feel like there's a time and a place, and I feel like it's just. I just, like, miss having fun. I want. Can we hang out more? Can we hang out, period?

[B]

I was gonna be that annoying person. I'll be that annoying person that I'll be like, let's TikTok. Let's do this. Like, I don't think I've ever hung out with someone who does. So I. I know what you mean. But I am that person that can't be in the moment if I go out. I'm like, I gotta document it, I guess.

[A]

Right? Right. That's okay with you, But I feel like your personality is so fun. I could just talk to you for hours and be entertained, but I don't know.

[B]

Do you find. Here's my other thing. Did you ever have an identity crisis? Cause sometimes I'm. I don't even know if I'm fun. I don't even know who I am when I'm not fun.

[A]

Yeah, all the time. I don't know who I am, period. Sometimes I'm like, I don't even know if I trust that voice in my head, if that's mine. I'm like, are you real? Are you. I don't know. I'm like. I constantly have, like, a crisis with that a lot.

[B]

Yeah, I'm the same way. Like, I love the idea of going to Chili's and, like, wigs, but then I'm also just like, ooh, am I fun? Am I. Am I a normal person? Do I know how to socialize? Probably not.

[A]

Well, can I tell you something about that Chili's story? No. I didn't lie. Well, we thought it was so fun and, like, such a funny idea. And then, like, we get there and, like. Like, it wasn't fun.

[B]

Why?

[A]

It was, like, too. It was, like, trying too hard to have fun. It was, like, funny in theory, and then the actual execution of it. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I think. I think that's every. Everybody. I think everyone has high expectations. It's gonna be amazing, and I don't think it ever is.

[A]

No, I don't think it is. I think, like, the best nights, the best moments are the ones that are unplanned. And, like, right now, this moment, a.

[B]

Little unplanned moment right here.

[A]

A little unplanned. Kiki.

[B]

No, I feel you. That's why I like doing the podcast that's my socializing. Because I really don't see anybody ever.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of. That's why I'm glad I have, like, a husband and kids because I probably would have just rotted in my apartment because I never went out, even in my 20s. I was just in my apartment. Yeah. I was just making chicken nugget videos and getting high by myself. You know what I mean?

[A]

Sus with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or you are me, though. I feel I am you.

[B]

I know we had. Are the same. That's why I emailed you. I was like. After I read your book, I was kind of like.

[A]

Like, that was such a nice email.

[B]

That was so crazy.

[A]

That was like your approval of it and you saying that you related to it was beyond.

[B]

Well, the ending too. And I, like, I got something. I'm not gonna give it away, but like, the attention, the only intention that matters. When you talk about the end, I was just like. I cried. I was like, honestly, that's so real, you know? But do you think, like, I read the book and I'm like, yes, that's the concept I want to grasp. Do you think the yearning for, like, love, validation, attention will ever go away?

[A]

No, it never will. Never will, never will. But I can do it in the right ways. I can look at for the right kind of love, the right kind of validation, the right kind of attention. I can. I can get attention for things that matter, that are. That are for good and not to be sensationalized and be a provocateur, which I'll always be, though. I'll always. I think we'll always be in on it. We'll always be kind of with everyone and kind of, you know, twisting the. You know, we're like. But I think it's. It's the way that you execute it now. And I think, you know, you learn from your mistakes and you learn from the areas that you. Maybe you did it the wrong way, you said the wrong thing, or you. But that's. That's life, you know, we're always constantly changing and growing. But I think that part of me, that little boy who wanted attention, who was shaking his for his parents to laugh at him in a Playboy Bunny outfit. Like, that kid is still very much in me and still shaking for his parents to be like, good job, kid.

[B]

I wish your picture was in the book. You know how sometimes memories have those pictures in there? I wish that would have been in there, that one of you.

[A]

I know, me too.

[B]

Playboy bunny. Were you watching Girls Next Door? Is that what inspired you or why.

[A]

Did you girls next door was later. I watched that religiously afterwards.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[A]

Love. And Kendra Wilkinson, I believe, went to my high school to different like a decade before me or something like that. We went to, like, this continuation school where you get when you get kicked out. And she went there and there was like a picture of Kendra out there.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know your school was continuation.

[A]

Well, I talk about it in the book just for a little tiny chapter where, like, I get kicked out and then I have to go to, like, this. Yeah, I get kicked out of school for a grade. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Bad boy.

[A]

I was a bad boy. I was a bad boy for a minute. How do you feel?

[B]

Where do you. What's like one thing or movie or where do you see yourself, like, next year? What are you like? What's your plans? Obviously, this book is gonna be big. Are you turning it into a TV show? Are you making more movies? Are you gonna be a social media star?

[A]

I don't know how to tick tock still. I've tried it. I downloaded it, did a couple. I don't know how to do it. They're so bad. You have to help me do one.

[B]

I. I didn't see you do TikTok, so I didn't even like.

[A]

I was like three followers on it. I don't know how to do it.

[B]

Wait, really? I would love to. You do. When you do mukbang roulettes, you guys should tick tock. I think that is a TikTok.

[A]

I think I should probably do that. I. I want to continue. I really love writing so much. Like, I wanted to write a book since I was a kid. I've wanted to write movies since I was a kid. I started writing movies with Phoebe. Some of them not great. Some of them are great.

[B]

Wait, multiple movies?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We sold some things together, and I want to continue to keep doing that. Yeah, yeah. There's one. There's one on Netflix that's out right now.

[B]

What's it called?

[A]

It's called Down Low.

[B]

Oh, my God. What's about being on the down low.

[A]

But a masseuse who comes to help a man, they. A closeted man. They have a threesome, goes wrong, they kill the third, they have to hide the body.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Love it. Dark. Is it all men? The threesome?

[A]

It's all. It's all men. But we have. We have Audra McDonald and Judith Light in there. You know, Tony award winner Audra McDonald's here in Gypsy. So good. So, so good.

[B]

Oh, my God. I have to watch.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, my God. You're, like, selling movies. That's crazy.

[A]

I wanna. Yeah, I wanna keep creating stuff. I wanna keep. And I'm growing. I know I'm a baby writer and a baby actor, and I want to keep getting better at it and keep honing in on my craft, you know, writing, producing, acting. I want to do it all. I want to just continue to get better.

[B]

Oh, my God, I love that. And then, like, in your personal life, are you just happy where you're at right now? Are you, like, living in the moment?

[A]

My personal life is really good. I feel like I'm the most stable I've ever been, ever. I finally, like, figured out whatever the. Is going on in my head and whatever the right meds were or whatever the right amount of validation. I just feel like I feel good right now. I feel like I'm not constantly yearning for something or someone or some feeling to, like, make me feel better on your own is.

[B]

To achieve that on your own is actually amazing accomplishment. This episode is brought to you by Rakuten. If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know and love the thrill of a deal. But are you getting the deal and cash back? Rakuten shoppers, do they get the brands they love? Savings and cash back. And you can get it, too. Stack sales on top of cash back and feel what it's like to know you're maximizing savings. It's easy to use and you get cash back sent to you through PayPal or check. The idea is simple. The brands you love pay Rakuten for sending them shoppers, and Rakuten shares the money with you as cash back. Download the free Rakuten app or go to rakuten.com to start saving today. It's the most rewarding way to shop. That's R a K u t e n rakuten.com this is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan. Real United Airlines customers.

[A]

We were returning home, and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew.

[B]

I got to sit in the driver's seat.

[A]

I grew up in an aviation family, and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age.

[B]

That's Andrew, a real United pilot.

[A]

These small interactions can shape a kid's future.

[B]

It felt like I was the captain.

[A]

Allowing my son to see the flight.

[B]

Deck will stick with us forever.

[A]

That's how good leads the way. I'm just bored as.

[B]

Oh, what? How are you bored?

[A]

I'm content, but I'm bored. Does that make sense? I'm just like, I need. I'm.

[B]

You want the chaos? You want a little chaos?

[A]

I think a part of me will always miss, like, a little bit of chaos.

[B]

Boredom's good.

[A]

I love the war. I love, like, kind of like you love the war. Like, I love, like, it's a quote from Big Little Lies. And it's like you miss the war, Celeste. It's like what the therapist says to Nicole Kidman. What's Big Little Lies?

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

You're TV show into it. Yeah. You're gonna love it.

[B]

It's out now.

[A]

Yeah, it's out now. It's been out for like five years right now.

[B]

I would love. Yes. Okay.

[A]

No, I feel. I feel good, and I feel boredom is good.

[B]

By the way, I always call us boring. I'm like, we are the most boring people. And people think of it as like, I'm complaining, but I like. I kinda like, yes, it can be, like, boring, but it's like, nice and peaceful, you know, it's like going out in the chaos. Like last night I was like, oh, my God. Like, it was the first time I've ever been out of the house in like, I don't know, like, five years. And I was like, I'm scared. You know, I kinda like just being bored sometimes. You're not gonna get into trouble, right?

[A]

It's like when you're looking for that trouble, crazy person to date, it's like, it's not gonna end well, especially.

[B]

Cause you're so stable and you're so good right now. Like, I worry for you if you find someone, like you meet Bret Michaels or something, and you're just like, let's go.

[A]

You know, if it was Bret Michaels, I would have to be like, let's go. Let's go.

[B]

Attractive back then. No, I think he's still one of the hottest people in the world.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. You know, why did you watch it then?

[A]

The girls. I was obsessed with the girls on the show.

[B]

Wait. Oh, yeah. There were divas, I guess. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God. Like the. The girl, like, with. God. Brandy. Brandy C. Brandy C. Oh, my God, I love Brandy.

[B]

And she had her other friend. I forgot her name, but they did. They were like a duo. Brandy was it.

[A]

No, Brandy M. Was a different one. No, Brandi Lacey. Heather.

[B]

Lacey. She has a podcast go on her podcast.

[A]

I have to go on Lacey's podcast.

[B]

Daisy, she had Heather.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Jess. I have a wig that looks like Jess.

[A]

The pink haired one?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God, it does. What was the girl that got second in second season that won? Amber.

[B]

Amber won. Yeah.

[A]

Third season was Taya. Taya. I think they're still together.

[B]

No, I think he was married during the whole show.

[A]

Was he?

[B]

Yeah, I think he still is. I follow him religiously. He's like, happy birthday to Christy OR Happy anniversary, 25 years together.

[A]

I was like, stop. He sent me a cowboy hat.

[B]

Did you ask him for one?

[A]

And he just sent it. I DMed him.

[B]

Oh, you've been DMing too?

[A]

I've been DMing him.

[B]

I don't look at Brad Michaels. I don't know what he's doing. It's like, no, you loved him.

[A]

I've been looking. I think I got tired. Confused with someone else. Yeah. I told him he was in the book and an inspiration to me and he sent me a hat.

[B]

I love. I love that he's an inspiration. He's an inspiration to all of us, really.

[A]

He honestly was an American treasure. It still is.

[B]

I love it. I love that. You like. Yeah. Gave him a shout out of everything. I'm obsessed with you in every way. I hope that we can.

[A]

No, we're.

[B]

We're like, say, hang out, but are we? No, we both are. Like, we don't. We're not good friends.

[A]

No, no, we're gonna hang out. I'm saying we are.

[B]

We're good. We're good friends because we're bad friends. You know?

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, let's hang out. And like, I don't know. But I'm telling you, if you do go to Chili's, it's very close. So I'm.

[A]

No, I'm going to Chili's with you. Can we have a Chili's Pop? Like a popup? You can tell people, like, yeah, meet and greet.

[B]

What if I'm just like, me and Lucas are going here? I would tag it. Put a location tag on there.

[A]

I'm so down.

[B]

And just see how many people show up. No one shows up.

[A]

It's just us at Chilies in wigs, waiting by a limo.

[B]

Like, just like, who wants to meet us? You should do that for your book. Are you going on a book tour?

[A]

Yeah, I'm doing la, San Diego, London, New York, and Chili's with you.

[B]

That would be everything.

[A]

It would be so sick.

[B]

Wait, that's okay. Have you done meet and greets before? No.

[A]

No, never.

[B]

Oh, are you excited?

[A]

I just hope someone shows up.

[B]

Everyone's gonna show up. I feel like a lot of moms like you too.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Like my mom, for one. But I also know other moms that were really excited. I told like a few moms actually. Those are the people I know and they're like, I love him.

[A]

Aww.

[B]

Do you find that a lot in public?

[A]

Older women? I mean, I love an older eccentric woman. That's like my cup of tea. I'm on a group chat with a bunch of them. I FaceTime with all of them.

[B]

Maybe I need to be on that group chat.

[A]

Oh my God. Can you please do an appearance? I'm one of them. Please do an appearance. We will freak out. Yeah, I think maybe gays and moms get down with me.

[B]

Okay. I thought the gays made me jealous.

[A]

There's like a love. They kind of hate me too. They actually all hate me.

[B]

No, I don't think.

[A]

No, I think they kind of do. They kind of do. It's okay.

[B]

No, but. But I know. I just feel like you're just like a good looking gay and they just might be like, damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can't hype them up too much, you know? No. Girls and gays love you. But older women too.

[A]

I think older women is my demographic. Older type of woman.

[B]

Do like a romance novel or something like that.

[A]

I would love to. I used to write Wattpad novels with Phoebe online with about like, romance.

[B]

We really? Was it about celebrities or was it just about.

[A]

One of them is about. One of them is, like, about a hotel of actors that like, start and then one of them is about, like, a dorky girl and like a popular guy falling in love.

[B]

Wait, I love that. Are these just like ideas you have in your head or is it based on, like, life?

[A]

Just ideas we have in our head.

[B]

Just little fantasies.

[A]

Just little fantasies. I was really bored during the pandemic. It was you and Wattpad during the pandemic.

[B]

You were doing this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought it was like 2013.

[A]

This was like three years ago.

[B]

I want to read them. Is it still up?

[A]

Yeah, they're still out.

[B]

I love a fanfic. And I love me too. Trashy novels.

[A]

Romance novels. Me too.

[B]

You're gorgeous.

[A]

You're gorgeous.

[B]

You're so appreciative. You're the hottest. You really are. I really. If anyone knows, I've been wearing sweatshirts, but I was like, today is the day. I'm getting dressed up.

[A]

It's my beautiful.

[B]

Everything about you is amazing and I'm so happy for you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And anything else besides the book what's coming up? Are you in the next White Lotus? It's going to France.

[A]

I know. I saw that. I'm tech avail. I'm so ready. I'm just doing a couple. Couple little Netflix movies that are coming out like you said. Netflix you are.

[B]

Put them on contract.

[A]

Put them on contract.

[B]

Back in the day, they used to do, like, MGM contractors, like Judy Garland. You should be on the Netflix one. You and Adam Sandler. $10 billion.

[A]

You and I on the MGM, like, contract, like, have to use two movies a year with both of us.

[B]

Please put me in any of your contracts. I would love to be a part of them.

[A]

We'll talk after this script. We've just sold another movie. You are perfect. There's a part for you and I would die if you played it.

[B]

I'm obsessed. Are you serious?

[A]

I'm dead serious.

[B]

My goal is to act.

[A]

No, you put me. We just need to put. No, you can. We just need a camera in front of you and you can do whatever you want. Like, I feel like you and like, Cardi B. Have you watched the Trials? I'm like, get a camera in front of, like, you and her and just let you guys do whatever the you want.

[B]

Are we both gonna be in it?

[A]

Please.

[B]

Is that the rules?

[A]

That's my dream. Is you two in this movie?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm manifesting it right now.

[B]

I would love. My goal is to be in one movie, so. Yes, accepted. Part accepted.

[A]

Done.

[B]

Put me on tech avail? Is that what you just said?

[A]

I don't know. Put me on hold. You're on hold.

[B]

I am so excited. Oh, my God. Well, I booked my first acting gig here. Thank you so much. I'm so gagged for it. And give me the contracts. I love you too. Thank you so much. Lucas Gage, his new book I wrote this for attention is out everywhere.

[A]

Is it out by this time of the video? I mean, probably.

[B]

I think your people were like, hold it. And I was like, okay. So, yeah, Target, Barnes and Noble. The airport.

[A]

Target, Barnes and Noble. Audible, Amazon, Airport.

[B]

Did you want audible book?

[A]

I did the audible, yeah.

[B]

In your own voice?

[A]

In my own voice, yeah.

[B]

I love. I love when people do memoirs.

[A]

You like? The audible's fun.

[B]

I like hearing someone like, their emotion.

[A]

I think the audible adds, like, an element. That's really good.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay, we'll check it out on audible.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Thank you for being here. And we'll. I don't know, we'll see you in another episode, I guess.

[A]

Please. I'm coming back.

[B]

Okay.