A Little Depressed & A Little Delusional

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Episode: A Little Depressed & A Little Delusional
Date: March 24, 2026
Summary Prepared By: PodcastOne

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Kail and Becky dive into the realities of navigating adulthood in their 30s with all its emotional highs, lows, and occasionally hilarious detours. Rekindling their friendship, they discuss everything from the nuanced spectrum of depression, trust in relationships, the struggle with modern “villages,” and the razor-thin line between karma and chaos in daily life. As always, their conversation is open, unfiltered, and sprinkled with wit and vulnerability—making it incredibly relatable for listeners riding the rollercoaster of modern adulthood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dark Humor, Friendship & Trust

Timestamps: 00:44 – 04:34

• Banter and Inside Jokes: The dynamic bursts in right away with laughs about pop culture and playful call-outs.
• Location Sharing: Discusses the implications and etiquette of sharing your phone location with friends and acquaintances.
• Quotes:
  • “I feel like that's a sign of trust—although you probably give it freely anyway.” – D [02:20]
  • “Now everyone who is worried about turning their location off, you don't have to go into your settings and hide your privacy because you could just turn it off for them and they won't know.” – C [03:51]

2. Open Talk About Depression

Timestamps: 04:41 – 10:23

• Rebecca’s Text: Becky shares a touching message from Kail’s assistant, Rebecca, about recognizing and expressing love during depression.
• Describing Depression: Both hosts are candid about going through unique depressive periods—what feeling “numb” or “burned out” is like despite being grateful.
• Dangerous Stereotypes: They touch on the dangers of “numb” depression, comparing it to cases like Robin Williams who appeared outwardly happy.
• Quotes:
  • “If you can acknowledge that you're depressed, you've definitely been through it before.” – C [05:33]
  • “This depression is weird...I know I have a really great life. I just am very numb to all feelings of it.” – D [06:53]
  • “Most suicides are like spur of the moment.” – B [09:22]

3. The Concept of ‘Village’ in Modern Life

Timestamps: 12:17 – 15:05

• Lamenting the Loss of Villages: Kail reads from a listener in their Facebook group about the myth versus reality of villages today.
• Acts of Service & Boundaries: Discusses the difference between people-pleasing and genuinely being “a villager” for others, and the risks of being hurt by those you deeply support.
• Quotes:
  • “It’s expensive to be a villager—whether that’s money or time.” – D [12:56]
  • “The people that I have put on a pedestal and was and would be their village...have been the people that have done me the most wrong.” – C [14:46]

4. Animal Reincarnation, Intrusive Thoughts & Cat Energy

Timestamps: 15:05 – 19:40

• What Would You Come Back As? Starts as a lighthearted discussion about reincarnation—wolf, shark, cat, tree.
• Cat Stories: Sharing stories about missing and returning cats, leading to conversations about intuition, strange luck, and intrusive thoughts.
• Memorable Exchange:
  • “I'm not saying I'm a fortune teller, but that cat did come back.” – C [16:55]
  • “I up.” (Regarding accidentally mentioning a dead cat) – C [16:06]

5. ‘Milkshake Before Meal?’ and Micro-Traditions

Timestamps: 20:11 – 21:53

• Order of Indulgence: Observes a diner family having milkshakes before the meal; debates if it’s better to start with what brings you joy.
• Regional Language Quirk: Laughs over whether people “eat or drink” milkshakes, realizing expressions differ by region.
• Quotes:
  • “Why not fill your tummy up with the thing that brings you happiness?” – D [20:38]
  • “A good milkshake, you eat it. A bad milkshake, you slurp it.” – C [21:33]

6. Addictive Personalities & ‘Addiction as Disease’ Debate

Timestamps: 24:26 – 41:05

• Dark Humor and Recovery: Navigating humor with loved ones who are recovering addicts, with Becky sharing candid examples of joking with her friend who overcame heroin addiction.
• Transfer Addiction: Discussion of the tendency for those in recovery to adopt new, sometimes extreme habits (e.g., “crunchy mom,” “gym bro”).
• Is Addiction a Disease?
  • The trio debates whether addiction is a disease or a choice, referencing genetic predisposition, dopamine, and personality type.
  • Recognizes that medical definitions support the disease model (see [35:55]), but also note individual responsibility and the nuance that not all addiction is rooted in genetics.
• Quotes:
  • “Addiction is a long term...can relapse and often requires ongoing treatment similar to diseases like diabetes or heart disease.” – D [35:55]
  • “Saying addiction is a disease does not remove the personal responsibility from the person to get sober.” – B [38:48]
  • “The addiction is not the disease. Your predisposition to be addicted to something, but the addiction to it is not a disease.” – C [33:17]

7. Palm Readings, AI, and Personality Quizzes

Timestamps: 42:07 – 44:14

• ChatGPT Palm Reading Prompt: Becky shares her experience using AI for a palm reading, despite not believing in the outcome. Triggers a brief discussion on seeking comfort from even meaningless sources.
• Quotes:
  • “It felt nice.” – D [43:03]
  • “There is nothing that interests me about what you're saying.” – C [43:14]

8. Who Would Notice If You Disappeared?

Timestamps: 44:39 – 50:57

• Thought Experiment: “If you turned your phone off for a week, who would come looking for you?” A candid, humorous but poignant examination of real-world support systems.
• Quotes:
  • “If I didn't talk to you for a week, but you're posting on socials, no, I'm not gonna come look for you because clearly you're fine.” – C [46:01]
  • “That's the depression talking.” – C [48:00]

9. Crime, Morality, and Loyalty

Timestamps: 51:00 – 55:36

• Fantasizing Disappearance: If the hosts staged their own disappearance, how would they do it? Fears about being “a bad liar.”
• Could You Kill for Family? The group discusses morality: Would you report your child if they did something horrible? Their answers are clear, but the emotional cost is evident.
• Quotes:
  • “I would. Because that's something that is not just...” (on reporting their child for a crime) – C [54:27]
  • “Because I raised you. So now that's something I have to sit with and I have to confront and I have to look at myself in the mirror knowing that I raised somebody that was capable of that.” – C [54:42]

10. Parenting, Accountability, and the Weight of Responsibility

Timestamps: 56:36 – 64:08

• Parenting & Consent: How to raise boys in the #MeToo era—teaching clear consent and communicating after dates.
• The Limits of Parental Influence: Grappling with genetic vs. environmental impact; stories of children with excellent upbringings still becoming troubled.
• Quotes:
  • “My good parenting could have never saved her. It doesn’t matter how good of a mom she was.” – C [60:05]
  • “The best you can do as a parent is giving them the tools that they need and doing the best that you can. And...whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.” – D [63:17]

11. Karma or Chaos? (Listener Story)

Timestamps: 64:13 – 66:33

• Laundry Mishap Story: Listener’s boyfriend tries to do his own laundry after blaming her for shrinking his hoodie, but ends up dying all their clothes pink with a red sock.
• Group Verdict: It's more “chaos” than “karma”—sometimes life is just messy.
• Quotes:
  • “I think it’s just chaos. I think it’s just poor luck. I don’t think it’s karma.” – D [65:44]
  • “But also just normalize doing your own laundry.” – C [65:53]

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “This depression is weird. Like, I know I'm really thankful for my life and I know that I have a really great life. I just am very numb to all feelings of it.” – D [06:53]
• “If you can acknowledge that you're depressed, you've definitely been through it before. Like, that's a really good point.” – C [05:33]
• “I'm not gonna snitch. But don't tell me.” – B [52:37]
• “Saying addiction is a disease does not remove the personal responsibility from the person to get sober.” – B [38:48]
• “The best you can do as a parent is giving them the tools that they need and doing the best that you can.” – D [63:17]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------|-------------| | Banter & Location Sharing | 00:44–04:34 | | Depression and Numbness | 04:41–10:23 | | Modern ‘Village’ Discussion | 12:17–15:05 | | Animal Reincarnation and Cats | 15:05–19:40 | | Milkshake First? | 20:11–21:53 | | Addiction as Disease Debate | 24:26–41:05 | | AI Palm Readings & Quizzes | 42:07–44:14 | | Who Would Notice Your Disappearance? | 44:39–50:57 | | Crime, Loyalty, Morality | 51:00–55:36 | | Parenting & Influence | 56:36–64:08 | | Karma or Chaos Story | 64:13–66:33 |

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Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode seamlessly blends serious, even somber topics (mental health, addiction, parental guilt) with humor, warmth, and a refusal to shy away from uncomfortable conversations. Kail and Becky’s chemistry delivers both laughs and real talk, making their vulnerabilities not only relatable but oddly comforting.

If you’re looking for honesty about the complexities of being a 30-something woman, mother, or friend—and the realization that sometimes life is just “a little depressed & a little delusional”—this episode delivers in full.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Are we rolling?

[C]

Are we on the air?

[D]

Are we live?

[C]

Live in 3, 2. Remember in iCarly when it would be

[D]

like that show in my entire life. Oh, good morning, good evening, good day, good night to all my karmarus out there. I hope you're having a wonderful day. I sounded like Delilah, didn't I? You did.

[C]

Good morning, good evening, good night to all, except for Ashley Trevino. She is booked.

[D]

What are you talking about?

[C]

Ashley Trevino went to prison.

[B]

Really? Who is that? For fraud.

[C]

And her total bond is 25 000. Its number of offenses one in Waxah, Texas.

[D]

What a way to start. Amount?

[C]

I don't know. I think it's welfare fraud, so I don't know that you could put a number on that. Exactly. Let me google it. How do you know who she is?

[D]

Like, did you just see it in the news? Yeah, it's been. It's.

[C]

Ashley Trevino first was introduced to me by Becky Hayter and Alessandra Gonzalez. So I. Ashley Trevino. My kids brought her up last night and I said, what the. Do you know about Ashley Trevino? Do you know what I mean? So she was charged with two felony offenses. It says securing execution of a document by deception, which is financial harm through trickery, and then health care fraud stemming from alleged incidents in May 2019 involving financial deceit and false health care. Billing through these through trickery is crazy work.

[D]

We were just talking before we decided to press record about sharing locations with people. I love when people share their locations with me. And I say this because I love when I leave my house for any reason, I am checking find my friends to see if there's anyone near me so I can just pop up and surprise them a little bit. I have Kale's location, which I feel like is a real form of trust with you. You know, like, I feel like that's a sign of trust. Although you probably give it freely anyway.

[C]

No, no.

[D]

I would argue that there's probably people that have your location that shouldn't also no. Okay, agree to disagree.

[C]

How do I see who has my location?

[D]

Go to find my friends. But.

[C]

Well, I'm going and removing. Like, why do these stop sharing location. I hope it doesn't send them a text because that would be really awkward.

[D]

It does.

[B]

It doesn't send them a text, but if they go text thread it'll say so and so stop sharing your location.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, so if I stop sharing my location with you, go to our text thread.

[B]

No, I didn't get anything.

[C]

Not. Well, it says I stopped sharing my location with you. Okay, so it doesn't even show in a text anymore.

[D]

Wow, that's good.

[C]

That's amazing. So I can really. Becky hater.

[D]

No location found.

[B]

Give me your location back though.

[C]

Answers. Okay, I'm sending it right now.

[D]

I have my location off. I don't know. It says no location found for Becky.

[C]

Well, now everyone who is worried about turning their location off, you don't have to go into your settings and hide your privacy because you could just turn it off for them and they won't know. So I'm sending Alessandra in the city.

[D]

I'm removing all the people that have mine and I don't have theirs though.

[C]

Same. That's what I just did.

[D]

That's what I did too in my sharing locations. I met random people at a bar and I have their location in here, which is so much fun. But the last one, which is so much. The last time I came here, I was on my way and I knew Kale wasn't around, but I was like, oh, I wonder where she is. And I looked at her location and I was five minutes away from her. She was at Gem Hair studio. And so I walked in just randomly and surprise her. And that was so.

[C]

Wasn't that.

[D]

Wasn't that so much fun?

[C]

Yeah, that was great.

[D]

Awesome.

[C]

That really was great. I loved that. I also.

[D]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[C]

I was just going to say that I read something on our Facebook group, but you can go ahead.

[D]

Well, I was just going to say I just shared my location with Rebecca, who is Kale's assistant. And Rebecca sent me a really nice text the other day.

[C]

What was it? Read it with the class. Share it with the class.

[D]

Well, I had like when we were at your house, I had said something about being depressed and she texted me and said, I've been thinking about what you were. What you were talking about earlier. I'm assuming since you can identify you are depressed, then this is something you have battled in life before.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[D]

I just want you to know that you are so loved by even more people than I'm aware that I am aware of. You light up every room you're in with little intention on doing so. If you ever need a reminder, just text me. I'm thankful you exist and I'm certain there are tons of others.

[C]

I love that.

[B]

That's.

[C]

That was really sweet.

[D]

So nice.

[C]

Also very insightful to say, like, if you can acknowledge that you're depressed, you've definitely been through it before. Like, that's a really good point.

[D]

Yeah, I'm going through a weird depression. Have I talked about that?

[C]

You have. You've talked a little bit about, about it. Like you're depressing era, but like, it is interesting that you can acknowledge, like, you can not label it, but like, identify it.

[D]

Well, I think it's because, like, I have built myself in such like, a positive way. Like, I am in. I intentionally got out of my last depression and like, built this life around me and a life that I love and a life that like, I want to continue living. And so when I stopped feeling like my life had any type of love in it, like, I was like, whoa, something's going on. And so historically, when I get depressed, I get like, super want to take a dirt nap. Wanna, like, not be here. Don't. Like, I'm not grateful. This depression is weird. Like, I know I'm really thankful for my life and I'm. I know that I have a really great life. I just am very numb to all feelings of it. So, like, I do not feel that over, like, overwhelming love when I leave a situation or like, when I'm like with my family. Like, I'm not so happy and present that moment and like, I should be that way. So I'm working on it.

[B]

Do you think, like, because I can, I can really relate. Like, this winter spicy depression was like, spicy because this winter was crazy. But I also think, like, there's so much insanity going on in the world.

[D]

I think January me up and I

[B]

think it's like a burnout almost, like where you just feel like. I feel you, like, just completely numb. Like, I don't feel happy. Like, the only emotion I do feel very heightened is anger, which is not very unusual for me. But, like, I just feel level.

[D]

Yeah. The thing that worries me a little bit is I feel myself sometimes feeling like I can't be happy because now this is just who I am. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, like, are people gonna think I'm weird because I'm happy when like I all I feel. It's. I don't know, it's a weird mental thing. We're getting there, we're working on it.

[C]

I am a little concerned about me. Yeah. Because this, what you're describing to me and I've been there. So I feel like also I like am concerned. This is giving and I don't mean to be insensitive. Like this is genuinely concern. It's like they're really happy. Like, or so you think people, actors, and then they ultimately unalive themselves like the ones that you never saw coming because they put on such a good front in front of people. And like, I'm like the first person that comes to mind is Robin Williams. And so that's like the first person I thought of. When you're describing this is like on the outside you look so happy. Right. But on the inside it's dark. Yeah, like it's dark.

[D]

It just feels like I've been through like super dark depressions where like my mind convinced me that like my life wasn't worth living. And like, I don't feel that way. Like I value my life, I value my. The people around me, I just know.

[C]

But I. The concerning part for me and like, obviously I don't know know Robin. I didn't know Robin Williams. But like, I don't think that when he like unalived himself, like, my guess is that he probably didn't premeditate. It is sort of like that what is the. What is a spirit? No, no, like something in the moment, spur of the moment, spur of the moment decision.

[D]

It led to it like got there.

[C]

It wasn't like a super dark depression where you're having thoughts and you're like, I don't want to be here. It's like the one that you're describing is how I pictured like the Robin Williams or you know, things like that.

[B]

Most suicides actually are like spur of the moment.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm concerned they might be

[B]

like having suicidal ideation, whatever that looks like for them. Like for some people, it's literally like thinking about killing themselves. For some people it's like, I just don't want to exist anymore. For some people it's like, life would be better if I was dead. It's whatever version of suicidal ideation is for you. And one day it just becomes sounds so overwhelming that you just do it most of the time. That's like how suicides occur. And it's hard because, like, you like what you're describing. Like, I wouldn't. I don't feel like, your energy like that when you're around me. Right. But like, I can tell that you're a little bit like, down. But, like, your energy isn't giving that. Like, you're not giving that to me. So, like, that's like you're the scary part of it all. And it's like it's hard because it's that. That moment, like that lack of fulfillment, almost like nothing feels fulfilling. Like you're just doing the motions.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Sorry.

[D]

It's okay. Could be worse.

[C]

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[D]

Anywho, I had something I wanted to talk about, but now I forget, so I'm gonna make sure I look at my little handy dandy notebook.

[C]

Okay, well, while you look, I'm gonna read something that was on our Karma and Chaos Facebook group.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

And Elisa Jones said, everyone talks about wanting a village and feeling like, they don't have one. But we also live in a time where many people prefer to keep to themselves to avoid getting involved with other people. Do you think that shift in how we interact is part of the reason villages are dying? Or do you feel like you are. You would be a villager if given the chance?

[D]

I mean, we talk about this often. For myself, I, I am a villager. Every single chance that I'm given to be a villager, I think that people are just burnt out of life. And like, it's really hard to be in a villager of like, during these just like, times of life too. It's expensive to be a villager. Whether that's money, money or time. I literally, like, if I am given the opportunity to be a villager, I'm

[C]

a villager through and through.

[D]

10 out of 10 times. I. But, you know, it's. It's hard to, like, I do feel like there are people who will be that person for me, but like, I do feel like I have people in my life that I like. I'm that person for them, but I don't know if they would be that person for me.

[C]

Yeah, we've definitely talked about that. I don't know if I'm a people pleaser or a villager because they're different.

[D]

Yeah. I think that it's really hard to dissect your life because it's really hard to put people in categories in your life. Right. Like, who is a true friend, who is a friend and a co worker who like, actually knows you as a person. So I think that it's hard, but I think that the people that you care about, like, no question or thought is that and like, you are a villager for them.

[C]

Interesting.

[D]

I think the other people who are like, you know, questionable if like they are actually your village, like, mutually. I think you're a people pleaser in that way.

[C]

The people that I have put on a pedestal and was and would be their village, one of their villagers, have been the people that have done me the. The most wrong. In the deepest ways.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

In the deepest ways.

[D]

Being a human being is hard.

[C]

Yeah, it is. It is really weird. It is tough. Like, you could come back to earth as something else. Like, I never want to come back as anything, but if I did, if I had to, it would be like a wolf or a shark. Like, what would you come back as?

[D]

I don't know why my mind, like went to being a tree and you

[C]

need to read the book the Vegetarian.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. It's not about being a vegetarian.

[D]

I mean, it is, but it's not a house cat.

[C]

Okay. Indoor, outdoor, Indoor.

[D]

Indoor, outdoor.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Free as. I. I'd come back as one of my cats.

[C]

Oh, okay. The one with one eye or that

[D]

one never came back home, so that's the one.

[C]

I would do that. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[D]

Oh, wait.

[B]

Rebecca.

[C]

One time.

[D]

Look at Rebecca's face. Look at Rebecca's face. What'd you do?

[C]

I. Up.

[D]

When?

[C]

What?

[D]

She brought up my dead cat, thinking it was still alive.

[B]

Well, and, like, when the. The cat originally ran away last time we were recording, and Kel could not stop bringing up cats during that recording for some reason.

[D]

Yeah, like.

[C]

And I was so funny, but, like,

[B]

like, you didn't want to do it. Your brain, it was like an intrusive thought. Like, because you would say. You'd say cat.

[C]

Like, oh, my God. Like, immediately after knowing. Then it happened to Kayla.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, hey, Kayla, I'm just following up on this. And she goes, my cat's missing, dude. And I'm like, oh, like I'm asking you for something when you're actively trying

[B]

to go finding her cat in the mountains of Appalachia.

[C]

But I will say, I'm not saying that I'm a fortune teller or anything, but that cat did come back.

[D]

It did?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, they're so nice.

[C]

And so I, I, I sent my. I put my good vibes out there. And I mean, I do have black cat energy, so, like, I don't know if that was a black cat, but, like, maybe it was. I thought telepathy kind of deal.

[D]

I thought it was an orange cat. Okay.

[C]

I wasn't sure. Yeah, I didn't know. But I have cat energy. Cats.

[B]

One did go one thing and never came back.

[C]

Correct. The one that I. Sorry, Kayla, if this is traumatic. Don't listen to this. If your name is Kayla, can you put this before Kayla? If. If you're listening to this, I need you to Skip ahead about 15 minutes.

[D]

We're not talking about her cats for 15 minutes.

[C]

What I was gonna say was that I did text, and I was like, I have hope that this, the cat will come back. And then that one did.

[B]

He did the next day.

[D]

Remember that?

[C]

So I may or may not be a horse whisperer. Also a cat whisperer.

[B]

I know. Joke on the coffee convos recording.

[D]

Can I. Can I ask a question?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Did you not care enough about me to do that for my cat?

[C]

Use your psychic abilities. Yours was my second experience with Like a cat missing. And I just. What?

[D]

It was the first.

[C]

No, that's not what I said. I said that your cat going missing was my second experience of a cat going missing. And I'm sorry, who was the first? Me.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Actually, me times two. Can I tell you a story about my gray cat that went missing? Okay. So when I was 12. So Sergeant Pepper. You guys are. Know who that is? May have been Fetty's sibling. Don't know. Sergeant Pepper went missing and he literally returned like four years later when I died.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

He didn't go missing when. So the cat was missing. I think four years is probably like, at that time, it felt like for you it was like a year. It was like two. One or two years. Swear to God. Swear to God. A year or two later.

[D]

Well, now your story is just changing and we don't really know what to do.

[C]

I'm just thinking, like, back then it was. It felt longer. But like now looking back, I only lived in that house for two or three years and the cat went missing for years while I lived there. So it had to be within the one to three year frame. So I say all that to say there is still hope of Fetty coming back and also Kayla's other cat.

[D]

It was winter hard.

[C]

Sergeant Pepper survived harsh conditions in the sticks of Lake Wallen. Paul Pack.

[B]

All right.

[C]

But he did come back to die. So in fact, he didn't survive like he did, but he didn't. Do you know what I mean?

[D]

Yeah. Cool. Great cat conversation.

[C]

All right, well, that didn't hit the way I thought it would.

[D]

But how did you think it was gonna hit that everyone would have hope

[C]

that their cats come back?

[D]

Why would I hold on to that hope? Anyway, I was at the diner the other day and every week, Yeah, I do go to the Blairstown diner quite often.

[C]

They should sponsor you. It is shout out to for the haters. It's a local podcast. Local to the diner. You should sponsor for the Haters podcast.

[D]

You should sponsor it. There was two parents and a grown kid, probably in high school, and we were watching them. It was brunch time. And they ordered milkshakes first before their meal. And it, like, itched a part of my brain of, like, they can't have milkshakes before. Before they eat lunch or before they eat their meal.

[C]

Why the not.

[D]

And that's what I thought. Like, why not? Like, why not fill your tummy up with the thing that brings you happiness? Because when I eat a milkshake after my meal, I don't eat that much of it, because I'm full from my meal. And I guess that's the whole point. But the milkshake brought me so much happiness. I should have started with that thing.

[C]

Well, I also feel like maybe that's their tradition. Like, maybe when they. Maybe it was, like, for special occasions, they go and they eat their milkshakes first. They drink their milkshakes first.

[D]

Do you often say, eat your milkshake?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. You eat your milkshake. Because sometimes they're so thick, you have to use a spoon. So then you're eating it, you're not drinking it. Like a good milkshake. You can't really suck that through a. Through a straw.

[D]

Yeah, if the straw is a big straw.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Which all milkshakes should have, but they don't.

[C]

I don't even. Down below. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just.

[D]

Dude, do you drink it or eat it?

[C]

You eat it. A good milkshake. You eat it. A bad milkshake. You slurp it.

[B]

I've never said I ate a milkshake. Never, ever. Even, like a thicky one, like, with like, a cupcake on top. No, I have said I drank a milkshake.

[D]

I've never in my entire life have said, let me go eat a milkshake.

[B]

I don't think I've ever even heard anybody say that.

[D]

No, that's crazy.

[C]

I think it's, like, interchangeable, Right? Like, you could say, I get why you say it.

[D]

That's crazy that we both have.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And that you two have never even heard of it.

[C]

I've said both.

[B]

Maybe it's a Jersey or Delaware thing.

[C]

Like, I've definitely said, drink a milkshake before.

[D]

No, because that's what you're supposed to say.

[C]

Shut up. Shut the up. We have fun.

[D]

Ask the people of your socials. It'll get good engagement.

[C]

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[D]

Do you have any friends that are.

[C]

I don't have any friends, actually. Hey you outside of this room. Okay, I'll go myself.

[D]

That's not true. I know that you don't have any friends in this situation. It is really so like having a dark sense of humor and having a best friend that is like a recovering addict is such a fun mix and like blend of things. What? What? Wow, that's random. Did I like, did I stutter or like I just don't know what you're talking about? Yeah, left field.

[C]

I need more context, clarity, more. I need you to elaborate. You can't just say a sentence like that.

[D]

Well, I was not planning on stopping there, so it could have just.

[C]

You could have had a warm up. Yeah, you could have warmed us up

[D]

to this kind of transition. Like what?

[C]

Please? Like maybe, you know, the transition that I would have gone with would have been like, I would like to talk about something that's a little different. And why is it different?

[D]

A lot of people have addict best friends. Addict best friends.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[D]

It's not a. So like I'm not in a.

[C]

Like you're not in a union.

[D]

What is the word?

[B]

No, I have, I do have a best friend that's a recovering addict. It just like, it just came out of nowhere for me. Do you know what I mean?

[C]

Like, you didn't There was no, like,

[D]

do you want me to try again?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

There's, like, dark sense of humor and having a. Such a fun place to be.

[C]

Okay, so, like.

[D]

Like, someone who's comfortable with their. His, like, background. Right. Where the butt of jokes can be about their past drug use. Oh, you know. Okay. So I have a. Like, one of my good friends is a recovering addict.

[B]

Like, what.

[C]

What's was the jugger choice? Oh, wow. Okay.

[D]

Yeah. And so it's so funny because, you know, she's a mom now, lives, like, a great life, and there's just so many instances and things of what she says where she's questioning, like, eating something or, like, taking a. Taking medicine. And it's. And she's like, I don't know if I want to put this in my body. I'm like, dude, you literally did heroin.

[B]

And.

[D]

And you say that? Yeah, it's.

[C]

Does she laugh?

[D]

Oh, yeah. It's like, she says it about herself, too.

[C]

Okay. I mean, that's a good point. It's like, hey, like, should I put polyester on my skin? And it's like, you've literally shot up heroin.

[D]

What do you mean? You know, I. I remember so vividly, and this is. I'm gonna say this, and I. You guys better not fucking argue about this in our Facebook group, because I'm not saying it over the controversy of it, but I remember her sitting on my living room floor in the height of COVID and her sitting there and being like. Like, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna get the COVID vaccine. Like, I don't know what's in it. And I'm like, dude, you literally did heroin. Like, that's. That's why you're not gonna get it. And she's like, damn. Like, you're right.

[C]

Like, well, it's like, well, you know what? Transfer. What is it called?

[B]

Transfer addiction?

[C]

Yeah. Like, you know how some recovering addicts, like, go to the gym and stuff, and they're like, gym bros, like, through and through, and, like, that's how they, like, keep their head on straight?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like one ext to the next. Like, there is no. What is the word I'm looking for? Like, there's no in between. It's like, you're either on heroin or you're a gym bro, or you're on heroin or you're like a crunchy mom, all natural, no chemicals, no like, the extremes. So that's really interesting.

[B]

I think it's a personality type. Like, obviously, addiction is A disease. It does not discriminate. So it's genetic about that. But then there's also personality types like my. I'll speak to myself. I have extremely addicted of personality.

[C]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

How much weed do I smoke? A lot. And I myself sitting here right now will tell you that I'm addicted to weed. I'm addicted to coffee.

[C]

Can we take a couple steps back, though, and address the addicted to anything? What.

[D]

I'm not addicted to anything.

[C]

What can. Can we talk about the addiction is a disease thing? Because I. I have issues with that. Like, I. Let me not say I have issues with that. I struggle with that. I go back and forth with that. I think that there's a genetic component. The same way there's a genetic component to mental illness, some mental illnesses or pcos. There are genetic factors there. But like, what do you mean it's a disease?

[B]

Well, because it can be passed down genetically. It is a disease. Like, it's something you're thinking position to.

[C]

I don't think it can be passed down, though. I think that it's like you can have a genetic. There's like a genetic component which means like the addictive personality type of trait. But like, like I have a big problem when my. When people refer to my mom, right? Like, oh, addiction is a disease. No, that was a choice.

[B]

And it does get to that point too. Like, I more so mean like the way that people can fall into addiction can be like a disease. So whether, like, for example, because I'm predispositioned to addiction, I have a lot of addiction in my family. I'm pre disposition to it. So like I said, can smoke so much weed and get addicted to it. Whereas, like, maybe Rebecca doesn't have an addictive personality and she could do something and not get addicted to it. And that way it becomes an issue. Do you know what I mean? Or the person who gets into a car accident and breaks their leg and starts popping Percocet and addicted to it.

[C]

But where's the disease part of the

[B]

predisposition to it genetically.

[D]

I brought this up. I was thinking about this the other day while I was talking about this the other day, and there was a couple things that made me think of it a little differently. And I. I have it here because like what, like when you talk about how genes affect things. So these are genes that can affect, like becoming an addict is like how your brain responds to dopamine, how quickly you develop tolerance, how strongly substances trigger pleasure or relief, how your body metabolizes drugs or alcohol. Are all genetic things, like. And, like, all of those can be related to things outside of, like, drugs. So, like, you, like, my ability or my tolerance for drinking, like, could be something genetic, right? Like, it's a genetic. Genetic makeup of myself. So.

[C]

But how does that make it a disease? Like, that's the part that I'm like, okay, because a lot of people, like, especially during my childhood, when they would enable and justify my mom's behavior, it would be like, it's a disease. Remember, it's a disease. Well, addiction is a disease. Alcoholism is a disease.

[D]

Do you think that, like, depression is a disease or, like, anxiety is a disease?

[C]

No, I think the depression is what depression is and anxiety is what anxiety is. But what I call them diseases. I don't think so, because it's like something.

[D]

It's like a chemical makeup. Like, it's diff. Like, it makes your body different.

[B]

So, like, okay, like she said, I. I have adhd, so I don't have. My. My brain doesn't make dopamine. So that's why people with ADHD do make up a large percentage of the addiction pop population, because our brains don't make it naturally, so we're constantly seeking it. So it's easy to fall into that because we don't have it.

[C]

Which is also interesting to me because I also have adhd.

[B]

But I definitely do things to get dopamine that you probably won't even recognize or give you dopamine.

[C]

No, I know that. I know that. But, like, when it comes to, like, drugs and alcohol, like, I. I've done both. I mean, I'm not a drinker or anything, but, like, I also, like, I don't have any desire to do it. I don't have any. When I do drink, I can control myself. I can remember everything that happened. I. I don't. And it's not something I particularly like doing. So it's really interesting to me. Like, what is the disease part of it? Like, when I think of a disease, I'm thinking of, like, okay, cancer is something that you. You sometimes get and you can never get. Like, you can't get rid of it, or you have a really hard time getting rid of it, and it's not a choice. And then addiction at some point, like,

[B]

think becomes a choice.

[C]

Yes, I think it starts a choice. Not always. Not always is.

[D]

I need to look this up and come back to the conversation so that I can get a more.

[C]

Well, can you look like, okay, so that we can talk? Because this is something that I need to Complete the thought.

[B]

I also wonder too because like you have like.

[D]

I agree it's hard to like for me to imagine like cancer is a disease. Like you don't have that choice of having cancer or not.

[C]

And some addictions can start that way. Like if you have surgery and now you're addicted to.

[D]

I do believe that like, like mental, like from a chemical makeup. Like that's why it's like it's a part. Like I could do a drug and not become addicted to it.

[C]

Same.

[D]

So like it is chem. It's about the genetic makeup of them

[C]

that makes them so that then to me, based on that, yeah, you're gonna Google when I go pee. But like based on what you just said, the addiction is not the disease. Your predisposition to be addicted to something, but the addiction to it is not a disease. You are just genetically more prone to develop a habit. Yeah, but so what is the disease part of it?

[D]

That's it. That's why it's a disease. Because it's already in your body.

[C]

The addiction is not in your body.

[D]

But.

[B]

No, but the genetic markers to be addicted are just like cancer. Some people can be pre genetic. Like dispos. Like, like breast cancer, for example. You can get tested for the Braca gene and that is a disease, but it's your pre. Genetically dispos. Like do you know what I'm saying?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So it just depends.

[D]

I've never had to. I've just always just like thought of it like that.

[C]

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[D]

Here are some five key points. Number one it changes brain structure and chemistry. Addictive substances alter the brain's reward system, especially chemicals like dopamine. Over time, the brain becomes dependent on the substance to feel normal. Number two, it causes loss of control. People with addiction often want to stop but struggle to do so. The part of the brain responsible for decision making and impulse control becomes weakened. It has genetic risk Factors. Research shows 40 to 60% of addiction risk can be inherited, meaning some people are biologically more vulnerable than others. Number four. It follows the pattern of chronic diseases. Addiction is a long term, is long term, can relapse and often requires ongoing treatment similar to diseases like diabetes or heart disease. Number five major medical organizations classified as a disease groups like the American Medical association and that's National National Institute on Drug Abuse recognize addiction as a chronic brain disorder.

[C]

A chronic brain disorder. Wow.

[B]

It says to like it's rooted. It's often rooted in neurochemical differences such as fewer dopamine receptors or as suggested by Harvard Health, environmental factors that cause epigenetic changes in the brain, like reward circuits. Just like we were talking about before. Like, trauma is genetic because it's in your cells.

[C]

So would you say that's a disease? Trauma is a disease?

[B]

I do. I think it makes people sick. People might disagree with me, but I.

[C]

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. I'm just questioning. I'm just. No, I'm challenging it because it just like everybody in this room, I'm sure, has been impacted by someone who has an addiction at some point in their life. Right. But like I have a hard time resonating with it. Like it the one of the points that you read said it follows the same pattern. Okay, it might follow the same pattern as heart disease or cancer, but it's. It's not those things.

[B]

I don't think every addict is predispedis posed to it as a disease.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But some are right. I don't think addiction always right.

[C]

Comes from a pre. Like, you know what I mean? I can get behind that. And for. For that specifically, I don't necessarily think that we should just blanket statement that it's a disease then, because it's not a disease for everybody. That's not fair to say. For my mom, who grew up in an otherwise very normal and great family with a great. Like, nobody else had addiction issues. Like, why all of a sudden is she. We can't prove that she was predisposition. Predisposed to it because nobody before her had addiction. You're not going to use that as an excuse because she had to live for. She had. She could have fought through and she chose not to. So to me, don't sit there and say that she has a disease. Maybe somebody else does.

[B]

But even.

[C]

And.

[B]

And saying something is a disease doesn't mean it's not your responsibility to figure it out either. Like, remove. Like saying addiction is a disease does not remove the personal responsibility from the person to get sober. Especially if you're a parent. Especially if you're a parent. Because, like, I know myself. I'm always going to be addicted to something. Like, it's just who I am, like, within my nature. So when I stop smoking weed need. I'm gonna have something else that I get addicted to. I just know it. Just figuring out like a healthy thing to become addicted to or like, that gives me the same like, dopamine cycle hit. Do you know what I mean? So it's. It's working with the quote unquote disease, if we're gonna call it that.

[C]

Okay. I could get behind that.

[D]

I also think that you don't see situations as clearly when there's a personal connection involved.

[C]

No, but I'm saying, like, it's. If your friend that you just described.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

If you told me like, addiction from

[D]

like a great family, great environment, like was raised like.

[C]

No, but you know, for example, she had a history of addiction in her family prior to that.

[D]

I don't think so.

[C]

And you said, you know, she has a disease, that would. I would be more empathetic and understanding to that. Right. Like, yeah, I don't know her from a can of paint. So for me, if you told me like, all of those things be like, okay, maybe for her it's a disease, but not for Susie.

[B]

Like, for you, you're predisposed to addiction as well.

[C]

Predisposed to it. And I have never put myself in a position to Be addicted to something like that.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Even. But, like, even how I respond to medication, too is like, I'm technically predisposed, I guess, just by my mom's history. But, like, I respond really well to, like, medications, and I don't have those same. Like, I just don't have, like, an addictive personality.

[B]

That's a neurotransmitter thing. Like, that's how your body is genetically made up. Like, I really have a low tolerance to, like, paint. Like, Percocet or something. Like, I can't take a normal dose.

[C]

Like, I usually have really high. Like, 2.5 of Xanax would do nothing for me.

[B]

So, like, someone like me who doesn't have as many neurotransmitters to take that in is going to get high off of a regular dose of Percocet, whereas you're just going to get the pain, like. Like, free situation from it. And then that way I'm more predisposed to being addicted to it. Does that make sense?

[C]

So would that mean that even though my mom's an addict, I'm actually not predisposed to it?

[B]

No, but because you are epigenetically, not just your neurotransmitters.

[C]

Basically, the moral of the story is, I will not be trying drugs.

[D]

You know what I am addicted to?

[C]

What?

[D]

Taking tests and then not getting the results.

[C]

Like what?

[D]

Like, you know when, like a. A test pops. Pops up on. On Instagram and it's like, oh, find out if you are smart or what's your IQ or blah, blah. And then you go through the test and it's like, pay $10 to get your results. And then I just never.

[C]

Yeah, because why would you.

[D]

But I do it all the time. I'll go through all the questions and then it'll get. I know. I know that it's gonna ask me for money, and I know that I'm not gonna pay for the results.

[C]

Okay, I would. I'm addicted to that. My colors red. Like, I want to do that. Like, the. What colors are best for you?

[D]

I also would like to do that.

[C]

That's a one of those things where, like, you could pay for the results, and it's like, can I just Google it or something?

[D]

Have you done the Chat GBT hand reading?

[C]

I don't know how to use Chat GPT properly, so I hardly use it.

[D]

So I.

[C]

Hand reading.

[D]

I ass. This is. I can't read my entire palm reading. I should say.

[C]

Hold on. What's the prompt I put in?

[D]

I'm about to Read it to you. Anyone listening? Here is the prompt for palm reading. It says, pretend you are one of the best palm readers there is and tell me everything there is to know about my palm line. Minds, past, present and future. It won't get hurt. I won't get hurt. 100. Be 100 honest. Don't hold anything back, please.

[C]

Do you believe what's. What's gonna pop up?

[D]

No.

[C]

Like, so why do it?

[D]

I don't know. It felt nice.

[B]

It.

[C]

Actually, you're such an interesting person because there. I have no interest in that whatsoever. Like, there is nothing that interests me about what you're saying.

[D]

It said that I have have long fingers with fairly square palm. The classic air plus earth mix. Analytical but emotional, strategic but intuitive. You think deeply, but once you decide, you move.

[C]

Yeah, that sounds very generic.

[D]

It. Okay, well, it also says your heart line is deep and slightly curved upwards towards your index finger. Finger. That means you love deeply and loyally. Say you are not casual with emotion. When you attach, you attach with your whole nervous system.

[C]

Okay, but to be fair, isn't your things named Sam?

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Sam knows you pretty well.

[D]

I also thought that I should have put it into a different one to see what I came up with. I. Yeah, because it used like, specific. Like, interview. Like, it said specific things about me, but it was nice to read. It gave me a little boost of confidence.

[C]

If that works for you, I. I'm here for it. It. Yeah, I'm here for it.

[D]

You should do it, though.

[C]

No, I don't. I literally don't care.

[D]

Okay. This was. I'm like. This was one of the best conversations I've ever had in my life.

[C]

Which. Which conversation?

[D]

The one we just had about the palm reading.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[D]

You know.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[D]

This one time.

[C]

How old were you? You got to start it with one time when I was.

[D]

Honestly, anytime you talk, it's always about your childhood and it always freaks me out. Like, you always, like, revert back to when you were a kid and it like, it's always like a jump scare. Because.

[C]

What does that even mean?

[D]

Because it's like, when I talk about things, I'm talking about, like, adults doing it or, like, older. And then it's like, yeah, when I was nine, I did the same thing and I'm like, what the. If you turned your phone off for an entire week, who do you think would come to look for you?

[C]

Go, Rebecca.

[D]

That's it?

[C]

Honestly, all of it. A week. All three of you in this room would come look for me and possibly Kelsey it wouldn't take a week.

[B]

It would take like 36 hours.

[C]

Why was I thinking 36 hours? Also, really? I literally, like, you said it while I was about to, like, say it out loud.

[D]

Can you grab my nutty buddy off the trash, please? Off the trash.

[C]

Are you asking me this? Are you asking me this because you're concerned or you asking me this because, like, like, this is a conversation.

[D]

I think it's a convers. Like a conversation.

[C]

I do think my kids would ask where I was. I don't know that they would come look for me specifically, but definitely the three people in this room would. Would come look for me. Who do you think would come look for you?

[D]

Probably just Leah.

[C]

I'd come look for you.

[D]

No.

[C]

Yeah, I would.

[D]

I don't think so.

[C]

Really?

[D]

If you didn't hear from me for. For a week.

[C]

Week.

[D]

You're so. I don't think that you would come

[C]

live for me if I didn't hear from you. You weren't posting on socials. I didn't have any. Like, nobody has heard from you. Yes, the I would.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If I didn't talk to you for a week. But you're posting all over socials. No, I'm not gonna come look for you because clearly you're fine.

[B]

You know who we're not going to look for? Lindsay Chrisley. Because she does that often. She'll turn her phone off and her

[C]

location for like two weeks. Lindsay stopped sharing her location with me and I no longer am. We're not doing that anymore. So if she turns, if she does, if I don't hear from her, that's just normal behavior for her. Going to the gym can be discouraging, especially if you're putting in the work but barely seeing changes. But with tonal, you can actually see your progress with every workout. Becky and I were just talking about how hard it is to actually get to the gym, but tonal offers a complete change for you guys. So Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the guidance of a personal trainer anytime at home with one sleek system. Honestly, it's beautiful. If you guys haven't seen them, go check them out on their website. These are designed to reduce your mental load. And Tonal is the ultimate strength training system, helping you focus less on the workout planning and more on getting the results. There's no more second guessing your form because tonal gives you real time coaching cues to dial in your form and help you lift safely and effectively. After a quick assessment, Tonal sets the optimal weight for every Move and adjusts in 1 pound increments as you get stronger. So you're always challenged. And right now, tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your tonal purchase with promo code karma, that's tonal.com and use promo code karma for $200 off. Your purchase. That's tonal.com promo code karma for $200 off.

[D]

I think Leah. Well, I think Leah would. Well, I don't know.

[B]

Anyway, Leah would come looking for you 100% that maybe. What?

[C]

I think that's the depression talking.

[D]

I'm like, sitting here like, no, me, if.

[C]

If I went missing for a week, I will say that killer people on killer network would wonder where their paychecks are. So I feel like they would start asking questions for sure.

[B]

Rebecca pays us.

[C]

Oh, okay. Never mind. I take that back. I'm not the one doing paper.

[B]

But, like, if I don't hear from you from, like, by like 11am I'm like, what the is going on?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah. Should I. Should I try it?

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

We're worried enough.

[C]

Okay. You're like, we. Our anxiety is all through the roof for all different reasons. No, that's the last thing you need to do market research on.

[B]

I live three hours away. Like, I cannot get in my car

[C]

and be like, where the is, Kale? But, like, like, when you're thinking about going missing, have you ever heard of the people who, like, stage their own kidnappings and things like that? Like, what would be your plan? Like, what would you do?

[D]

I think about this often of, like, people staging things like, what if people that are on for the haters are just coming on and, like, telling a completely lie of a story, like, their entire story is just false.

[C]

I'm gonna come on for the haters and lie.

[D]

I'm gonna have you on in my new style format because it's gonna be sick.

[C]

Okay. I'm excited.

[D]

Like, a story for it would be, like, beautiful. Yeah, I agree.

[B]

You couldn't love that.

[C]

No.

[B]

No. Kale, you've been documenting your life, like, on podcast, and you don't even remember what you said.

[C]

Well, no, like, I would just get on for the haters and just tell, like, an elaborate lie that's not the truth.

[B]

Just, like, anyway, squirrels.

[D]

What story would you come up with?

[C]

With? I need to tell that story. What story would. I'd go off the grid internationally, probably somewhere where I don't have a fan base. My guess would probably be not Europe, maybe Asia or Africa, where there's probably not a whole lot of teen mom.

[D]

You think a 510, what white running back is gonna not stick out in an Asian country?

[C]

First of all, running back is fast as. And I'm not. So that's number. I'm like a middle linebacker, first of all. Second of all, I'm not 5 10. I'm 5' 8.

[D]

Whatever.

[C]

I mean, would I stick out in Asia? Probably. But would people recognize me? Probably not. So. So my point is, I'd go off the grid somewhere. I would go somewhere I don't have a fan base and I would just start my life. And that is how I would go. I wouldn't even leave an explanation anywhere. Like, it would just be, I have disappeared into thin air.

[D]

Would you leave any clues behind, though?

[C]

No.

[D]

Like, you just disappear.

[C]

Well, I would, like, pay all my bills in the United States and then like, cut them off with no warning. Just say, okay, I'm ending services. And then I would leave.

[D]

So that's not staging a kidnapping or staging like.

[C]

Oh, that's like just like planning my disappearance. Yeah, okay. No, I. See, here's the thing. I'm a really bad liar, as you know, and it would not be best for me to stage a kidnapping because I would fail. I would fail, so. I know, just get myself into trouble.

[D]

I think that it would be successful. If you paid someone to do it, it.

[C]

Yeah, but then you run the risk of that person coming out or like, telling your story.

[D]

Kill them.

[C]

I couldn't kill somebody. You couldn't. It. It doesn't matter. Life or death. I couldn't kill someone.

[D]

I think you could.

[C]

No, I couldn't.

[D]

I think that if someone. You watch someone kill one of your kids, you could absolutely kill someone. 100%.

[C]

The way that my anxiety and conscience are set up. I don't know that that's true.

[D]

If I watch someone hurt, like, like threaten the life of someone I love, I could 100% at least I think, right? You never know until you're in the situation. But yeah, like, I wouldn't be able to do pre, pre meditated murder.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Oh, hell no. No, hell no.

[B]

Like, I would never tell you.

[C]

No, please don't. Yeah, like, I'm not even being funny. Don't. I'm not going to judge you. But like, also, don't tell me because the way that my conscience would eat, like, I would be like, oh my God. Like, because I. I don't want to get in trouble. Trouble.

[B]

I don't either.

[C]

I don't want to get in trouble.

[B]

So nobody tell me that you killed a person either.

[C]

Okay, so you're also a snitch.

[B]

I'm not gonna snitch. But don't tell me.

[C]

Same. Like, I'm not gonna go to the authorities. No, but I am. I will live the rest of my life wondering if I'm gonna get in trouble because I knew the secret and didn't tell.

[B]

Yeah, I'd probably go into psychosis.

[D]

No.

[C]

1,000%. 1,000% psychosis based on the mere fact that I know about it and didn't do anything. And, like, also, what the does someone do with that information? Like, I watched Homicide Detective on Netflix or whatever, and I know we. I talked about it somewhere. I don't remember where, if it was you or somebody else. But I was saying how, like, there were multiple people in on this murder, and so many people were, like, knew about it, and it, like, went unsolved for years and years and years and years and years. Like, I almost, like, couldn't believe it because I'm like, so you pull up a car to someone's house with a dead body in it, and he agrees to keep the car with the dead body in it overnight for, like, a night or two or however long it was, and then you get rid of it. But, like, he knew about the body in the car and that you were keeping it there, and then you were just going to dispose of it and he knew about it and didn't tell it. Like, to me, I cannot wrap my head around that. Like, I. It's like, do you just go into this, like, weird, I don't believe it kind of, or like, you're gaslighting yourself into thinking it wasn't real because, like, how do you participate and, like, know and then you don't do anything about it?

[B]

It.

[C]

I.

[D]

Well, I don't know what the situation behind it. Did they kill someone that deserved to be killed?

[C]

It's like a love triangle. And, like, the woman cheated on her man with this other guy who cheated on his wife, and then that boyfriend killed the guy and then hid the body and, like, disposed of it and did all of that, and then that's how it all transpired.

[B]

Morbid question. If one of your children, you found out, did something like that, would you call the authorities?

[C]

Yeah, I would.

[D]

Yeah, I would.

[C]

I would. Because that's something that is not just.

[D]

It also depends, like, did the per. Like, what is the scenario of it. But, yeah, you have to. I don't know. Yeah, you have to.

[C]

And. And. And that would be equally Devastating, I think, for me, because I raised you. So now that's something I have to sit with and I have to confront and I have to look at myself in the mirror knowing that I raised somebody that was capable of that. Yeah, I would tell all my kids. I would.

[B]

Yeah, I. Yeah. There was this video recently that went viral and this man, his son killed a. Like a locksmith came to help him open his door and he literally just like point blank shot the man and walked out as if nothing happened. And the dad, like, was there and was so horrified. Like, he was just like pacing up and down, like, how could you do this? How could you do. He wasn't worried about his son. He was worried about the man who just lost his life. Like, I get that, but I. I think a lot of thing. Things come down to parenting, but I don't think everything comes down to parenting.

[C]

No, no, for sure not. But no, if my kids did that, I would, I would tell.

[D]

It's even. And like, having a kid is so, like, terrifying too. Especially like having a boy and like teaching them like the proper etiquettes of. So I know, I'm trying to figure out how, like, if. How to say this without making it. I know that. I know a situation where there was someone that was charged for like rape or statutory rape, and their thought process behind it was like, I was always told that I need a yes or no answer. And that was what was instilled in their mind. But like, the way that they went about trying to get that yes or no answer was like a pressure to get it. Yeah, but like, from this kid's mind, he was like, I did what I needed. Like, I, like. Because the girl was saying, I don't know. And he was like, like, I can't. We can't do this with an I don't know. Like, it has to be yes or no. And so from his position, like he was. Thought he was doing. And like, when I heard about it, I was like, well, like, yeah, like, you deserve the penalties that you get.

[C]

Because if it says if it's. I don't know, consider it a no.

[D]

Exactly. But that's not what he was taught. Right? Like, and so I say this because of the importance of how you educate your children.

[C]

That brings me to a really good point. So when we were in Dallas for coffee combos, we had a conversation about consent. And the same way sometimes, like for work or for maybe like heated situations, you recap a phone call via email so that it's like, okay, this is what we talked about on the phone. Let me put it in. In an email so that it is a recap that makes sense to me. This person was telling us in Dallas that we should teach our sons to do the same thing in dates. You take a woman out for a date and then whether there was kissing or anything like that, it's like, hey, I really enjoyed my time tonight. I hope that you had as good of a time as I did, kind of recapping the D in text and then their response, hey, I didn't have a good time, or no response at all, or a good response or whatever will actually could help or. Or hurt. I guess in theory, in a situation when it comes down to, like, consent and things like that, and I actually thought that was a good idea. Like, obviously you could put anything in a text or an email, but, like, in theory, you're not going to put a bunch of lies in there and be like, oh, like, we had a really good time. Like, I hope I could take you out again. And then, you know how girls had have. Sometimes they can, like, accuse someone that they didn't want to sleep with and say, oh, it was rape or whatever. If you recap the. The date or the situation. And I'm not saying this is foolproof. Right. Like, I'm not saying every single situation do this, but like, to recap a date in text, in writing, in a way that both parties are acknowledging that there was no coercion, There was no. I said no, and you did it anyway. Like, you're most likely not going to recap a night that you did that. Does that make sense? Like, if it's not an expl. Explicit and direct yes, it should always be a no.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And that's really, really hard because I think just by nature, men are more impulsive and boys are more impulsive. And so that's really hard. And I just think about, like, raising six boys.

[D]

Yeah. So having boys is scary. And there's so much responsibility of, like, I even think now of how, like, the things that I need to make sure that I'm teaching him and like, even, like, consent of their own body. Right. Because, like, boys are also the other side of things where they're in a lot of situations with adults that they don't feel comfortable talking about things that might happen to them. And, like, there's just so much when you become a parent that I feel now responsible for to at least give them the tools that they need to be able to feel safe in all situations, feel safe coming to me See, feel respectful of, of other people's bodies.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And all the things.

[C]

I would agree.

[B]

I have another question. This woman on Tik Tok said like she is well off. Right. So she anticipates being able to provide financially for her children like through their life. She says if her son like has a child and is not doing the right thing, they're getting completely financially cut off.

[C]

I actually love that also because she could still in theory help the grandchild, but doesn't have to help the dad. I mean I'm not against that. It's so interesting. I, I said this to Lindsay too. Like I have so much empathy for parents of not. Let me not say I have so much empathy. I have empathy for certain parents who you see in like Dateline or ID Channel who are like their child is the murderer or the rapist or the person. Yeah. Because it seems it's not always the parents fault. Right. Like I even got on Tick Tock and this woman was talking about how her daughter had, was, was dealing with a lot of struggles and she said my parent, my good parenting could have never saved her. It doesn't matter how good of a mom she was. She knew from a very young age that her, her daughter's young age that no matter how good her parenting was, that her daughter, there was something maybe biologically different about her daughter, that it was never going to help. And so that's really sad and scary. Like you still, I mean mom guilt and parent guilt is already so challenging. Like imagine you're in a situation like that where it's like you were the best mom you could have been and it still wasn't good enough.

[D]

Yeah. But I mean I had the, I had that guy on my on for the haters that suffered from intrusive thoughts of hurting people. Like his, that's how his OCD presented itself.

[C]

Oh wow.

[D]

And like that's not a one off situation. Like there's plenty of people that probably go through that and not medicated. Not like helping because and, or even like that's probably what happens a lot of the time with people who do end up like hurting people. Like there are conditions out there that are making people do what they're doing. Like that's like not, they didn't, they weren't parented bad. Right. Like the parenting didn't have anything to do with having that ocd. So like I said to go off of what you were saying. It's like kids can be suffering not because of parenting.

[C]

Agreed.

[D]

Which is scary and terrifying.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Wild that, like, I mean, I can't believe you have seven kids, you know?

[C]

Yeah. And the more I think about it, the scarier it is for the simple fact that it's like, okay, Elliot's turning out really well. Okay, cool. Lincoln is turning out really well, you know? And you don't really know until you know, you know, And. And even then, you don't. Because mental illness can strike at any. Really any. Right. And I think, like, like, schizophrenia or addiction or just, like, life lives and, like, you don't know what that will do to somebody. And so when you think about, like, okay, I have to try to be a good mom seven times. Right. Or like, their dads have to be good dads seven. Not seven times, but, like, for each of their children. So. And then what do you do? Like, if you know, I don't know,

[D]

girl, you tell me.

[C]

Because, like, I think about my grandparents, right? They have four children. One of them's a doctor, one of them is a teacher, one of them died, and one of them's an addict. And it's like, well, what the. Yeah, they did their best.

[D]

I think the best you can do as a parent is giving them the tools that they need and doing the best that you can. And. And, like, whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.

[C]

My grandmother told me when I told her I was pregnant, she was. It's like, babies are born. Like, this isn't a. Like, a problem that's going to go away. Like, you. Like, this isn't like a. What, Like a. Not a frenzy, but, like, this isn't something that you're just dealing with right now. Like, this baby is going to come into the world, and you are going to have to take care of this human, and you are going to be responsible. And I, to this day, don't think it held the weight then that it holds now, because now it's like, okay, I'm 16 years in, and I only now realize that, like, oh. Like, whatever my kid ends up being. A lot of that has to do with parenting and not saying all of it. Yeah. But a lot of it is parenting. You only have 18 summers before you there. They have to be an adult for the rest of their lives. And that's scary.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think at 16, you have the cognitive ability to understand that.

[C]

No.

[B]

Like, your brain wasn't developed enough to

[C]

emotionally, and it was already stunted in and of itself. So. Huh. All right. Is it karma or is it chaos? Hi, ladies. I need to know if this is karma or just pure chaos. Pure chaos. A few weeks ago, my boyfriend accused me of shrinking his favorite hoodie in the dryer. I told him I absolutely did not shrink it, and maybe, just maybe, it was already too small. Instead of arguing about it, I told him if he was so worried about his clothes, he could start doing his own laundry. Well, he did. The first time he washed everything. He threw all of our clothes in together with one bright red sock. Every single one of my white and beige clothes item items came out pink. My sweater, sweatpants, and even my bathrobe. Everything looked like it had been tiedyed for Valentine's Day. I was furious. But here's the best part. Two days later, he pulled out the same hoodie he accused me of shrinking, and it was all same pink and it's still too small. Now he's mad at me again because apparently this entire situation is somehow my fault. So I need to know, is this karma for telling him to do his own laundry out of pettiness, or is it just chaos?

[D]

You know what's funny is I feel like I've been in this situation before.

[C]

What does that mean?

[D]

Like, I've gotten pissed at Leah for like something of mine ruining and the wash and it. And it's like, well then do your. Like, I don't do like, Leah does our laundry and. And that. It's like, well, do your own laundry. And then for like a week I'll do my own laundry. And then it falls off again. Anyway, I think it's just chaos. I think it's just poor luck. I don't think it's karma, but yeah, I agree.

[C]

I think it's. It's a little bit of chaos, but also just normalized. Doing your own laundry.

[D]

Do you do your own laundry?

[C]

Well, no, but like, I mean, in a part. I mean, like, mean what I mean is not doing your partner's laundry.

[D]

Okay, Leah. Thank God Leah doesn't listen to this

[C]

podcast, but does she do your laundry?

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Are you an acts of service girly?

[D]

I'm a. I have enough clothes to wear for a year so my laundry would never get done.

[C]

I'm an acts of service girly. So like, I. That would be something for me. But like, I'm not doing somebody else's

[D]

laundry is an act of service. Like, that's how she receives love, so that's how she tries to give love. I'm a physical, toxic touch girly.

[C]

So if she didn't do your laundry, you would not give us a. A?

[D]

No, I wouldn't give a.

[C]

Okay. I don't do Ike's laundry. I didn't do Elijah's laundry.

[D]

I know.

[C]

Anyways, happy Tuesday.

[D]

Anyways, happy Tuesday. Thanks for being here. We love you guys. And we'll see you next time on karma and chaos. Love you. Bye.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

If I'm lying, I'm dying. This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra.

[B]

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[D]

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Huzzah.

[C]

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[D]

Hey, guys, it's your friend Michelle Collins, and I'm here to invite you to listen to the Michelle Collins Show. Yes, that's my show. Show unfiltered, unscripted, unhinged. And covers pretty much everything you're going to want to care about. It's funny, it's fearless. It could go off the rails at any moment and often does. So follow rate and review the Michelle Collins show wherever you get your podcasts and let's spiral together.