Are We Really Just Friends?

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter Episode: Are We Really Just Friends? Release Date: June 3, 2025

In this engaging episode of Karma & Chaos, hosts Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter delve deep into the complexities of friendships, particularly the dynamics between men and women in platonic relationships. Through personal anecdotes, thoughtful discussions, and listener interactions, they explore societal norms, emotional intelligence, and the importance of representation in modern adulthood.

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1. Opening Remarks

The episode kicks off with Kail and Becky sharing their excitement about reconnecting and recording the podcast remotely. Becky expresses her joy in being together, stating, “I truly miss you” ([02:19]). Their warm greetings set a friendly and intimate tone for the conversations to follow.

2. Mexico Bachelor Party Experience

Becky recounts her recent trip to Mexico for Ryan’s bachelor party, highlighting both the fun and the unexpected challenges they faced. A notable moment occurs when Becky describes an interaction with an older couple who questioned her having male best friends:

“It makes me feel really loved.” – Becky ([02:05])

This encounter sparks a broader discussion about societal perceptions of female friendships with men, leading Becky to assert her boundaries firmly:

“Oh, it’s a you problem.” – Becky ([04:32])

3. Male Friendships and Sexualization

The core of the episode revolves around the tendency of men to sexualize their friendships with women. Kail shares her skepticism, stating:

“Straight women, not necessarily gay women, cannot have male best friends. They just cannot.” – Kail ([04:54])

Becky adds depth to this point by referencing feedback from their Facebook group, emphasizing the need to shield young boys from these prejudiced views:

“We need to stop doing that to young men and young boys.” – Becky ([05:19])

4. Emotional Support and Men’s Vulnerability

The conversation shifts to the importance of fostering emotional intelligence among men. Alessandra contributes by sharing her experiences with male friends who struggled to maintain platonic boundaries:

“I’ve seen all my guy friends cry.” – Becky ([17:55])

Kail underscores the necessity of creating safe spaces for men to express vulnerability without judgment:

“They need to have relationships where they can be vulnerable.” – Becky ([17:30])

5. Changing Behavioral Patterns and Surrounding Oneself

Kail and Becky discuss the impact of surrounding oneself with supportive and respectful individuals to break harmful generational cycles. Becky emphasizes:

“It takes one singular person or one singular instinct to change.” – Becky ([28:47])

Kail reflects on her own experiences and the positive influence of teachers who saw her differently:

“It was like the people they were hanging around changed me.” – Kail ([29:54])

6. Representation and LGBTQ+ Youth

Highlighting the significance of representation, Becky shares a heartwarming story about her friend’s daughter who proudly identifies the hosts as role models:

“She was like, aunt Becky and Leah got married, so that means that I can marry whoever I want.” – Becky ([51:13])

This segment underscores the critical role that visible and authentic relationships play in shaping young queer individuals’ understanding of love and relationships.

7. Listener Message: Dealing with Past Infidelity

The episode features a poignant listener message from Caitlin, who grapples with her husband's past affair:

“It is a betrayal no matter what.” – Caitlin’s message ([55:08])

Kail and Becky offer empathetic advice, emphasizing the importance of not rushing decisions and seeking emotional support:

“You do not have to make a decision right now.” – Kail ([57:20])

Becky adds practical guidance on rebuilding trust:

“Your partner needs to accept all of the things that they are going to have to go through.” – Becky ([58:34])

8. Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Kail and Becky reiterate the key takeaways:

• Emotional Intelligence: Encouraging men to embrace vulnerability.
• Healthy Friendships: Advocating for respectful and non-sexualized relationships.
• Representation Matters: Highlighting the positive impact of authentic role models for youth.

Becky humorously concludes with:

“If you see me in public, hit on me.” – Becky ([50:28])

Kail and Becky leave listeners with a heartfelt reminder of the importance of nurturing meaningful and respectful relationships in all facets of life.

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Notable Quotes:

• “I truly miss you.” – Becky ([02:19])
• “It makes me feel really loved.” – Becky ([02:05])
• “Straight women, not necessarily gay women, cannot have male best friends. They just cannot.” – Kail ([04:54])
• “We need to stop doing that to young men and young boys.” – Becky ([05:19])
• “I’ve seen all my guy friends cry.” – Becky ([17:55])
• “It takes one singular person or one singular instinct to change.” – Becky ([28:47])
• “She was like, aunt Becky and Leah got married, so that means that I can marry whoever I want.” – Becky ([51:13])
• “It is a betrayal no matter what.” – Caitlin’s message ([55:08])
• “You do not have to make a decision right now.” – Kail ([57:20])

This episode of Karma & Chaos offers a rich exploration of the intricacies of modern friendships, societal expectations, and the journey towards emotional authenticity. For listeners seeking relatable and thought-provoking conversations about navigating adulthood, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Becky]

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[Kayla]

Free [e-mail] wondery greenlight.com wondery what the.

[Alessandra]

You're cooking milk?

[Becky]

What is this cookie?

[Kayla]

You. I'm. What is going on?

[Alessandra]

That's what I said.

[Kayla]

And you're wearing white.

[Becky]

I did that on purpose.

[Alessandra]

And the color. And the color.

[Kayla]

You know what? I think you're blending in with your background a little bit.

[Becky]

Should I go put a black hoodie on?

[Kayla]

No, I think it's the lighting. Slash your skin is blending in with the stuff in the back.

[Alessandra]

No, it looks good. You look tan. I'm about to slather myself with baby oil.

[Kayla]

I don't like that you're tanner than me right now.

[Becky]

Do I look good?

[Kayla]

No.

[Alessandra]

Yeah. I told you, you don't.

[Kayla]

To Memorial Day barbecue.

[Becky]

Not freaking coming anyway. When is it?

[Kayla]

Sunday?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

When did you get home?

[Kayla]

Literally?

[Alessandra]

I was like in Mexico.

[Kayla]

Yeah. What was going on? Were you just chilling?

[Becky]

No, it wasn't just chilling. I'll tell you all about it. But maybe we should kick things off first. But. Okay.

[Kayla]

Anywho, good morning, good afternoon, good night.

[Becky]

Good morning, good evening, good day, good night. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, we love you. And thanks for being here.

[Kayla]

Oh, truly, thanks for being here.

[Becky]

Wow.

[Kayla]

Look tan. And I'm a little upset and I'm a little jealous.

[Becky]

Being told that I look tan is one of my love languages. So it makes me feel really loved.

[Kayla]

That you said your face next to mine. I'm glowing in the dark. Okay. I'm illuminating the way you are.

[Becky]

Look at everyone. Just take a moment that it might be watching. Look at this. My last bite of my cookie. It's an Oreo cookie thing. It's really good. I'm happy to see you. I. I truly miss you. And I say this, like all the time when we just jump on to record.

[Kayla]

I'm sad that this is not in person. Like I was thinking, I don't want to get on this recording because I would rather it be in person. I think that we vibe off each other's energy so much better in person. But I'm happy you're here and I'M happy we're recording.

[Becky]

So I'm tan because I. Let me finish this bite.

[Kayla]

Yeah, People hate when I eat on the podcast, but watch everyone be like, yeah, Becky, go ahead and eat. Like, it's no big deal, but not.

[Becky]

Like, damn, she's sexy. I have. I have some things I need to get off my chest. I was in Mexico. If anyone's wondering why I'm tan. If you're watching. If you're not watching, make sure you go and comment that I look tan, because it is my love language. I was there for a bachelor party. Couple things I've listed out that I want to talk about.

[Kayla]

This bachelor party, whose was it?

[Becky]

Luke. So Ryan.

[Kayla]

Guys. Okay.

[Becky]

Ryan, Spencer, Luke are my three best friends from college. It was Luke's. Spencer. We went to Mexico last year. Luke's. We were going to Mexico this year. It was great all around. Really good experience. I did have an interesting interaction. When I first got there, this couple started complimenting my tattoo. It was an older couple, probably in their 60s, maybe 70s. And they were like, oh, like, oh, nice tattoo. Talking about this one. And I said, oh, it's in honor of, like, my friend that passed away. And then I said something like, he. The guy goes, did you say he? I said, yeah. He said, oh. I didn't, like, really realized that girls could have, like, guy best friends. And I said, what an interesting thing to say for someone that's on a bachelor party with 10 dudes. And he was like, what? He's like, I don't like. How can a girl be, like, best friends with guys? Like, I feel like I would just want to hook up with my girlfriends. I said, sounds like a you problem. But, like, what? Yeah.

[Kayla]

I tend to agree.

[Becky]

No. Yeah, someone commented.

[Alessandra]

You agree with.

[Kayla]

I tend to agree that when you are. And I don't care who comes for my neck on this. Straight women, not necessarily gay women, cannot have male best friends. They just cannot. One of them wanting to hook up with the other.

[Alessandra]

Until you straight up that my guy friends that I've had in my life, that the idea of even the fact that they are sexual beings makes me sick. Squeezy to my stomach.

[Kayla]

Not saying, it's you, you're gonna get canceled. I am. I might get canceled for saying it, but I have not had a male friend or best friend that has not overstepped the boundary and tried to cross lines at some point. So I tend to agree.

[Becky]

Well, someone commented on our Facebook group saying that, like, they have a son who everyone around them keeps, like, Sexualizing his friendship with a girl and she's nervous that he's not going to feel comfortable being friends with girls unless it's in that way. So I think we need to stop doing that to young men and young boys.

[Kayla]

Well, I think that by nature men are very sexual beings and I would go out on a limb and say that nine times out of 10. It doesn't necessarily mean that feelings are involved, but at some point they would want to or try to fudge their female friend. Nice.

[Alessandra]

I would love your opinion about like, is that our generation of men because of the way that they were raised and how is it going to be different for yalls kids and like the boys now? Because I don't think that's necessarily going to be the case because men are taught now, like boys are being taught now to not objectify women the same way that they were in the past. Like it was the rhetoric of boys will be boys and men are just inherently sexual beings so they can't control their urges is something that was ingrained to us. But that's not like, that's societal. You know what I mean? No, no. That's why I want you guys to have the conversation about like, how is it going to be different with your. Like, how can you change that?

[Kayla]

I think by nature men are just more sexually charged than women. I think that in our parents, generations and maybe before that it was like frowned upon for men and women to be friends because it made the woman, she was a. She was a slut, she was this or that. It was always shame towards the woman. I think in our generation it's sort of lightened a little bit. But in my personal experience, every guy that I have been super with has tried to do something and I don't know if it's because they think that I sleep around. I don't know if it's because they're just sexual. I don't know if it's because men act on impulse. I don't know. Moving forward and like raising sons. I teach, try to teach them not to objectify women. I also teach them not to put their hands on women like little girls. Like you have to ask for consent. Like, oh, can I hug you? Can I hold your hand? Can I? You know what I mean? But I just think by nature that's just the way it is. I. And part of it can be societal, but part of it is just by nature.

[Becky]

I think for you, you have a hard time seeing the other side because that's been like your lived experience. Your entire life. Like, you've never had a friend. Like, you keep saying that you've never had a friend that hasn't sexualized. Sexualized you. But I'd, like, I mean, I know I.

[Kayla]

My male friends have sexualized you. Like, tried to sleep with me in California one time. Like, he literally tried to sleep with me. And he had made comments about you made comments about Dom. Like, those are things that I just. I don't know.

[Becky]

I think that, I mean, I agree that men sexualize me as well. Like, friends of friends, like, of guys. Like, sexual. Like, but I, I don't think that has to be the. Like, I don't think, like, Leah has friends, like, best. Leah had a best guy friend growing up that they never hooked up or.

[Kayla]

Never, like, oh, I'm not saying that they hooked up, but I'm sure he thought about it. I'm sure he wanted to at some point.

[Alessandra]

I mean.

[Kayla]

Some men, I think, are more in control of their emotions and impulses than others and might not act on it. But that's not to say they didn't think about it. And if she knew that he thought about it, would that change the dynamic of their friendship?

[Becky]

I guess it's a hard conversation for me to have because I'm not in the shoes of, like, all of my. I would say my closest friends are men. Right. Like, but I'm just privileged to have. Like, I don't know. But I, I, I'm also gay, so, like, there isn't a sexual tension there for at least it. But there could. Like, I get. Because I get hit on by men. Like, it's not, like, I don't get hit on by men just because I'm gay. Like, but these are my homies. Like, those are, like, I love my homies. I love them so much.

[Kayla]

I need to hear Alessandra's perspective on this. Which part? On all of it.

[Alessandra]

Well, I told you, like, I personally have had, like, many male friendships that were not in any way sexual, but I also have had friends with, like, have been friends with men that, like, when we were drinking a little too much or something, and they've, like, tried to, like, sneak in my bed and hook up with me. That's 100 true. But I do think that this does have a lot to do with the way that we treat men as a society. Like, I was saying to you before, we've had this conversation when I was on the podcast, like, back when I first, like, went to Becky's house and y' all recorded, like, I Just think it's what society does to men. Like, I'm in agreement with you. Men are inherently sexual beings because testosterone is pumping through their body 24 7. But the ability to control those urges is not talk to them or it's made more acceptable to them that they don't have to like control those urges. For example, as a bisexual woman, I was in locker rooms. I've been in a million situations with women who are naked and I never once objectified them or felt like I couldn't control my own urges. So it's like, I do get the hormone parts of it, but I do think a lot of it is taught and I'm excited to see where the next generations take it because I do think it's really different. I think kids are taught differently. But I'm.

[Kayla]

I hear you.

[Alessandra]

And for a really long time I struggled with men in general because I was always sexualized. Like I developed really young. So men always scared me and they always overly sexualized me. It wasn't until I got a little bit older, which is really gross and weird if you think about it. Like they sexualized me more when I was younger and not when I got older, which is a whole other fucking conversation. But when I got older and I started actually being able to have like real friendships with them, that I had a different perspective of them, but I used to feel the exact same way.

[Becky]

I think it'll be interesting with like my son and like my kids that are having sons around me too, because it's going to be so normalized of having like cross gender relationships. Right? Like they're going to see me and their dad be best friends. They'll see, right? Like the, like all the kids around us are going to be able to see that. So. And also I'm really aware of things that are being said too, like just the sexualizing of little kids in general of like, oh, is that your boyfriend or girlfriend? Like, be. I try to speak with inclusive language. But Alessandra, you just triggered such a thought of mine because while we were in Mexico, there was this girl there that like had an only fans and she makes a lot of money off of only fans. And like she was cute. Like nothing. Like not my type. Not. But like she looks like she was 12, like with braces. And I'm like, that's why she makes so much money, is because men are disgusting.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Oh, a hundred percent. We've had this conversation. I don't know if it was on here, just in general about porn and why porn isn't inherently like bad and you know, ruins the male mind. And you see it like young teen girl or stepmom and stepdaughter. We have a problem. Like think about why women shave their vagina. Why do you want to look prepubescent? Women have hair on their vagina. Children do not foreign.

[Kayla]

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[Alessandra]

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[Kayla]

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[Alessandra]

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[Becky]

I have a bone to pick with like whoever in society decided to start like having women have long hair and shaving and just needing to be more well kept together. Because I would have just been happy if everyone had bald heads. You know, I'm with it.

[Kayla]

Bald head like on their heads or.

[Becky]

Yep, on top of their noggin.

[Kayla]

No, I do not have the head shape for that. My children do not have the head shape for that.

[Becky]

And so you wouldn't know any different if everyone just did it.

[Kayla]

Okay, okay. So what was the final conclusion of the conversation that you had with said man in Mexico?

[Becky]

Oh, I just walked away. Wasn't worth my Time.

[Kayla]

I love that and I hope moving forward the rest of 2025, that I can do that as well. Walk away from things that are not worth my time and my breath.

[Becky]

Fair.

[Kayla]

So thank you for sharing.

[Becky]

You're welcome. I also wanted to acknowledge. I wrote this in my notes. It's really beautiful for me to be around men that have a love and like, appreciation for their relationships and family and partners at home. Because a lot of the com, like you could assume what happened on a bachelor party, right? Like, conversations that happen, you always hear people, like, you know, when they get together, they probably talk shit on their family and wives and like every single person, like, like, we're just talking so highly. Especially obviously me and Spencer are going to be new dads soon and that's a really great part of our life. But like, everyone was just talking so highly of how much they love either being a husband or like a dad and talking about their partners. And it was just really beautiful to just be around men that just speak. Speak like that in a room that their partners aren't in.

[Kayla]

I spend a lot of my time talking about men and I that it's no secret. And I will not act like I'm not gonna sit here and act like I don't do that, because I absolutely do. But I do think that there is a small percentage of men and I stand on small percentage that do appreciate being in a relationship and do value. And I think that's why, like, it's not just because you're gay, right? Like, it's also because you have found men in your life that do value their friendship with you. It sort of goes hand in hand. I don't think that a relationship with a woman, like a platonic friendship with a woman is for every man, not every man is going to value that. And so I think the type of men that you specifically surround yourself with are also people who are the small percentage of people who appreciate their partner. And like, I don't know. I was talking to someone over the weekend and he was saying how like, his two brothers are married and they're not super. They're just maybe one of them is not very happy. And I'm like, I just, I don't. It scares me to like, be with a man and like, marry a man and get to a place where like, they're not happy, where like, a woman will adapt to the situation and like, try to make things better. And like, men don't have that same mentality or drive or desire. It's just like, I Don't know, it's weird.

[Becky]

I think it's also about making like, about men making safe places for each other though too. There's a lack of, there's a lack of support between men in their friendships and like allowing for deeper conversations, hard conversations, emotional conversations. Like allowing, allowing each other to feel like they can be vulnerable. Like I've seen all my guy friends cry. Right. Like I've seen them all cry and happiness. I've seen them cry just like an emotional settings. And I don't, like, not everyone has the, has the emotional like intelligence to do that or has people around them that allows them to, to be that way. Right. Like men are just raised with that, that mentality.

[Kayla]

Like that mentality. Yeah. Like it stems from their family and how their family approaches that, but then also from that is who you surround yourself with as people. Right. Like, and unless you're willing to do the work to change that, I think that so many men are never going to be comfortable.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

You know, and I don't know if, if I end up marrying a man, I hope that he surrounds himself with people who are like minded and want a family and want to be around their wives and like honor their wives and like I want whoever I end up with to be that.

[Becky]

Yeah. I don't agree more. I think everyone deserves that.

[Alessandra]

I'm curious to know like when Billy and I first started dating, he was around some men that I was like. Like they don't prioritize their family. They talk about women in a way that is not something I with or what I would want my partner to be around and absorb and also think. And I always say like you are who you're surrounded with yourself in the sense of humans are sponges. Like we are environments. Like we pick on, on the things that like the people around us say and they do and they act. So energy is so real and transferable and I don't fuck with that. But I think that's what you and Billy immediately had a connection. And I what Kayl was saying, it's a special kind of man to have an intimate, close friendship with a woman because of what society has done. So I'm sure in your experience, like did it take you time to find those male friendships like that like in your experience around other men, Like I'm sure you saw that toxicity in that conversation and how other men perpetuate that with each other?

[Becky]

For sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like even like someone like Luke was saying to someone like, oh, what are you here for? And he was like, oh, I'm here for my bachelor party. And someone was like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, sorry. Like, something, like, alluding to, like, it being of this bad decision. And he was talking about. He's like, I don't get it. Like, I get to marry my best friend. Like, I get to marry someone I love. Like, like, I, like, I just feel bad for people that feel as if, like, creating a life with someone, being vulnerable with someone, like, allowing yourself to love, receive love, give love, just, like, isn't an environment that they feel comfortable in. Unfortunately, this podcast is 99.9999 woman. So the men aren't gonna hear this, but maybe you guys, Maybe they'll tag.

[Kayla]

Someone who will because I don't have.

[Becky]

A conversation with your husband.

[Kayla]

I think that I read I have fallen victim to romance novels, which before my. My heart was so ice cold that I never. I was, like, not reading those cliche romance novels, and now I just read them and I. I love this. And they're so layered and, like, real. But, like, all the men that are in the books, like, appreciate the woman.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

And so I just want to surround myself. Like, if. If I'm gonna have men in my life, I want them to be ones that appreciate the rel and that are not afraid to be affectionate and show. Like, all the men that you're friends with, right? Like, they're platonic, but it radiates through. And like, so when you post with them or you talk about them, like, I know without knowing them that they appreciate you. And I love that. And those are the types of people. Those are the types of men that I want to be around if I'm going to be around men, but also that I want my sons to be.

[Becky]

I talked about this on here before. Like, I. I think my eyes got wet a little bit. I'm not gonna try to think too much into it, but, like, how lucky am I that, like, my son gets to be raised around men like them, right? Like, that's gonna make, like, a huge difference in their lives that they get to be emotional. They like that he can be emotional, right? Like, he feels safety because he has men around them that allow, like, that give him the permission, right, To. To be that person.

[Kayla]

I really love this conversation. Maybe I'll give a little bit of credit to men from now on. Just a little.

[Becky]

Well, I also, like, it's. I was talking about this before. Like, I feel like I probably. I probably get more love and affection from my guy friends, and I give more love and affection than like some couples. Like some couples that like supposed to be in love and stuff like that. I just think we need to raise standards a little bit and expectations of what we. Why do you make that baby?

[Kayla]

No, because I agree.

[Becky]

Yeah. Like women, we as, as the female community or whatever it is, whoever's dating men, just raise your standards to make them not think the bare minimum is okay.

[Kayla]

Yeah. I think also yeah. To your point and to elaborate off of that a little bit, it's like women not lowering their standards. When we lower our standards, we're allowing that behaviors and those types of qualities or characteristics to perpetuate. And if we want better for men, we have to stop accepting less.

[Becky]

Yeah. And that goes for you masks out there too.

[Kayla]

Yeah, it does.

[Becky]

Yeah. Stop being and trying to be like men.

[Kayla]

I'm gonna text somebody really quick.

[Alessandra]

Just said stop trying to be a man. No, that is true. Because you know how many times like my aunts are like older women have told me every man's gonna cheat. You just gotta get over it. Like that's what's gonna happen, honey. Like you're gonna have that if you want to marry what you're gonna deal with or.

[Kayla]

Oh, they're so stupid.

[Alessandra]

They don't know better. They do. I was not born with some manual that the universe just handed me that a man does not have access to it's learned behaviors. It's like making excuses for them. And I've been in a relationship with a straight white man at that for eight years. We've lived together for seven of those eight years. And I had to, we've had to have so many arguments, painful conversations like that to get to the point of where we are now. Because he wasn't taught like that society just infantilizes them too. And that's the difference between men who want a mommy and men who want a partner that they can cherish. Those are the differences in the conversations of marriage. It's true. Someone that's going to take care of them and versus someone that they can equally take care of. Those are the differences.

[Kayla]

Speaking of that, when I went to therapy this morning, I was talking about like a relationship dynamic with my therapist and like we were talking about sort of, sort of that what Alessandra just said about like wanting a mommy and like, I don't know, just like taking care of like a person in a relationship. It could be the woman to the man or the man to the woman is like being with someone who challenges you and like helps you succeed or are you Lowering your standards to like, your own personal goals, your own standards to take care of the other partner because she was like, you know, you have to be with someone that's going to challenge you and like want you to succeed and exceed and do all of the things. And that's so interesting I that we're having this conversation.

[Becky]

The universe works in mysterious ways.

[Kayla]

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[Alessandra]

There is a very big difference too upon like men who are willing to have that conversation and work on it because like it's, it's not necessarily our fault too that they're taught like that they have to just be willing to hear it. But there is a difference between like I always say, like me and Billy had a lot of the issues that a lot of women have with their men in the beginning of their relationship. The difference was that Billy wanted to change and he actively showed me every single time that he was trying. It didn't get perfect off the bat after one conversation and one attempt at trying, but he always Tried. And that's the difference. That's what you're talking about. Somebody who is going to bring themselves up to your level so that eventually you guys can succeed together is really different than someone you're dragging around your neck like an albatross. It's completely different.

[Kayla]

But how does one get to a place in general, right? Not just a man, just any fucking buddy. Why? How do they get to the place of wanting to do better and wanting to change and wanting to just be better in general, right? Like, for me, I got so sick of my own behaviors and my own whatever. So, like, when I went to therapy this morning and I told her, I was like, I don't want to repeat this. Like, I. I don't want to repeat it. But not everyone ever gets there, let alone men. Men are already, I feel less emotionally intelligent than women. So, like. And that doesn't go for just relationships, like romantic relationships, but just in general as people. How do we get to a place where, okay, I want to change my behavior. I'm recognizing, acknowledging, I want to change it.

[Becky]

It's all about who you surround yourself with.

[Kayla]

I think that's.

[Becky]

I think that's the core being of it, right?

[Kayla]

Like, if you're stuck in a. The place where you're just perpetuating the toxicity, how do you. Because here's the thing, right? Like the butterfly effect, sort of. If I surrounded myself with people like my mom because I didn't have a choice growing up, it was like, you know, the people that my mom hung around and then their kids, I could have turned out very differently. So then. But I didn't have another choice. That was who my mom was hanging out with, right? Like, those were the kids of the people she was hanging out with. If I don't have any other other way to hang out with better people, and then those better people aren't shunning, because a lot of times it was like, you can't play with her. You cannot play with Kaylin. Her mom's a drunk. Her mom's this, her mom's a that. You can't play with her. She can't come over anymore. Stuff like that. How. How do you get to a place in your adult life, I guess, where you're like, okay, I want to change this.

[Becky]

I think you're unironically shedding light into the very depths of the issues with our society. Like, it is so much deeper than, like, you just, like, literally explained it. Perf of, like, marginalized communities and why, like, people can't just get out of situations for that exact reason. So I just want to recognize that first and foremost, I like. It's hard, right? Because, like, people don't get out. That's kind of the issue. That's where these cycles and generational cycles come from. It takes one singular person or one singular instinct. Like, whether it was a teacher that saw you in a different light, whether it was just a situation that, that luck or the universe brought you into that, like, made other people see you in a different light. I think it's really hard for people to get out of situations like, that you're, like, you're speaking to. But, like, I think that when they get an opportunity to see life kind of differently, that that can be what, like, changes them.

[Kayla]

I keep saying that. It, it, it. All it took was one person in my childhood to make a positive impact, to see me differently. I could get. I could literally cry thinking about it. I'm friends with him on Facebook, literally my teacher from 11th grade. But not. Not to say that he, like, got me out of, like, that cycle or whatever, but he just saw me differently, so I knew that it was possible for him for other people to see me differently.

[Becky]

Yeah, exactly. It takes one person. It takes one situation for you to hold more value, I think. I mean, you speaking to that and just speaking. There's so many times in these conversations that things you say make me realize just more like, about you and more about the way that you were raised. And even that how you said, like, parents wouldn't let that kids hang out with you because of who your mom is. I think that's just eye opening in itself. And I think that there's a lot that people can learn from that in being more inclusive to kids that you might feel that way. Like, people just need to be loved. Like, they're just not being loved and not being cared for. And like, giving someone that opportunity or giving someone that grace or giving someone that conversation can literally change someone's life.

[Kayla]

There are friends that Lincoln has had, and I specifically use Lincoln as an example because his friend group is very different than, like, Elliot's or, you know, Lux's. I'm, I'm. I, like, have real friendships with the parents of Lux's friends. And I don't know if it's just. It was just the timing, but Lincoln specifically has brought friends over. And I'm like, they are more frustrating, but I know what it's like to be that kid. It doesn't matter how frustrating they are for me. I'm never gonna Say no, because I know what it's like to just need that one person who's gonna let their kid be friends with them. Does that make sense?

[Becky]

Like, a million percent.

[Kayla]

So I say all that to say, I don't know how we got here, don't know how I was crying on a Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever the day this is. I didn't have a Brian therapy today, and here I am on the podcast bawling my eyes out.

[Alessandra]

I just started crying because I was having a similar conversation with my mom and my aunt because my best friend died when I was 12. She had a kind of similar situation to you where her mom was, like, now as an adult, I understand, like, she was going through it as a kid. I thought she was just funny and fun, you know? My friend was being dropped off like it was either my house, her cousin, or my other friend's house every single weekend. The reason she passed is because her mom stopped asking for help. And it kind of broke my heart when we found out, like, she was crossing the highway to get a protractor for homework in the middle of the night in a February, like, dark night, because her mom was out gallivanting wherever she was. And none of us found out, like, the condition she was living in until she passed away. And we went and helped, like, pack up her home. And she was basically living, like, in a shack on the side of the road with, like, you know, running electricity, and none of us knew. And my aunt said something to me about it when we were talking yesterday, and she was like, sometimes the universe does these things because we can't understand what kind of life she would have lived otherwise if she hadn't passed so early with her mom. And I said, like, it breaks my heart because it wouldn't have been that way. Like, my mom, like, the other women in her life, like, the mothers in her life would have have bought tooth and nail for that not to happen. And it makes such a big difference. And I think sometimes things have to happen so that you can become that mom for another kid, so that you can help, like, break that cycle. And it sucks. But sometimes it just helps, like, put certain things in perspective of, like, why did I have to go through this? Well, maybe it's for a reason, ultimately, you know.

[Kayla]

Yeah. To see the bigger picture.

[Becky]

Absolutely. What a conversation.

[Kayla]

Crying on a Wednesday.

[Becky]

Dude, I've been crying a lot lately. It's been crazy.

[Kayla]

Like, are you. I'm getting my period in the next 7ish days. So your period last week, What?

[Becky]

Like, you said that last week.

[Kayla]

No, last week I said, my period is coming up.

[Becky]

Yeah, no, I'm not getting my period. I'm just an emotional person. But tick tock's been me up lately. Life's been like, even on vacation, I like, my eyes started kept watering because one of our friends, Andy, he just kept talking about how like, great it is to be a dad. And I'm just like, Jesus, I can't even. Like, I am going to be unwell when Bex gets here. I am like, it's not going to be good.

[Kayla]

You're going to be an emotional mess.

[Becky]

It like I'm going to be crying all the time. Yeah, you might be anywho to change the conversations to the other side of the spectrum from my trip. I came home and I said, leah, I'm a little disappointed. I didn't get hit on that much. She started laughing. I was like, I didn't get hit on that much. Do you think that I'm losing it? She goes, no, but good.

[Kayla]

She doesn't want other people looking at you. But you're not losing it. You're just. You're in it. This is just a season of life right now where no one's hitting on you. They know you're about to be a mom. They know that you.

[Becky]

I didn't say I didn't get hit on at all. It's just I feel like I get hit on more.

[Kayla]

Who's hitting on you, women or men? Or both?

[Becky]

Both.

[Kayla]

That must be so fun.

[Becky]

It is fun.

[Kayla]

I got a DM request from a woman not that long ago. It was like maybe four to ten business days ago. And she said, let me know when you're ready to be treated right. And I said, and I'm thinking to myself, I could get used to this.

[Becky]

Oh my God.

[Kayla]

Specifically from women. You know what I mean?

[Becky]

Yeah, I do know what you mean. Speaking of, I met a couple girls. I met a couple, a bunch of people this weekend. Multiple swingers, multiple people in poly relationships. And I. It is very fascinating to me. Do you think that you could ever be in a poly relationship?

[Kayla]

No, I don't judge. Like, I'm more. So any questions I have or my, I guess, aversion to doing it myself is not out of judgment. I genuinely am so curious about it and I have so many questions out of pure curiosity. But I don't, like, I'm not. I have no judgments towards it. Like, I. I have always said that I do not think that humans are meant to be monogamous. And what and what I mean by that is whatever that looks like for somebody. For me, it means that I was not meant to be with one person. From the time I was with someone till now, I've been with multiple people. For some people, not being monogamous means that they are with multiple people at one time. That that is for every individual to decide for themselves. And I also am a firm believer that you can love more than one person at one time. You're probably going to love them differently, but I think that you can love more than one person at one time. And. But I'm so fascinated by polygamy and polyamory. Both of them. Because they're both. I think they're different.

[Becky]

No clue.

[Alessandra]

They are. So polygamy is like you have a relationship with all of the people together. And polyamory is that like each partner has their own outside relationship. Sometimes it can be together, but it's also like you're exploring outside of it. Polygamy is like having three wives.

[Kayla]

Polygamy makes more sense to me in terms of like psychology. Like if I fall in love with, with Tom and I fall in love with Michelle, it makes sense for me that I'm in love with both of these people, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to love each other. Does that make sense?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

So fascinating to me.

[Alessandra]

Makes more sense to you than polygamy.

[Kayla]

Say that again.

[Alessandra]

Polyamory makes more sense to you than polygamy. Like having out relationships with other people versus having like a throttle.

[Kayla]

Yes, that makes more sense in like terms of.

[Alessandra]

Of. Yeah.

[Kayla]

Like I think about times that I've cheated, right? Like I was with someone that I probably liked or loved at the, like them at the very least. And then I cheated on them with somebody who I had feelings for. Don't expect them to fall in love. Don't expect them to be in a relationship with me. But I like, I love both of them.

[Alessandra]

I'm gonna send you guys a tick tock account after this recording. There's a woman who talks about that she has a sister wife and it's because she would grow up in a cult that like, like made you do that. But now they're not in it, but they decided to all stay married. It's so fascinating to me, like, honestly, sounds dope like you have another mom to help you do like, specifically. Yeah. Oh, a woman. Yeah, a woman.

[Becky]

Of course.

[Kayla]

This is an ad by Better Help. Becky and I have both talked about our struggles with mental health, with depression, with going through some really challenging things in life. And we know that that therapy has helped us so much get through these dark times. And also just talking about it with you guys has, has really helped. Also. I also learned that men go through a lot of pressure and they face immense pressure from performing to providing and keeping it all together. Six million men in the US suffer from depression every year and a lot of times it goes undiagnosed. And so if you are a man and you're feeling the weight of your world right now, talk to someone. I know that it might sound hard. You could talk to anyone, a friend, a loved one, a therapist. And BetterHelp is a great option too, if you don't really know where to start. BetterHelp has over 35,000 therapists. BetterHelp is the world's largest online platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. You don't have to worry about getting in the car, driving to an appointment, driving back and trying to figure out the driving time plus the session. That's something that I really, really like to talk about when it comes to online therapy. And as the the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. You guys can talk it out with Better Help and Our listeners get 10 off their first [e-mail] Karma that's better. H E L p.com Karma Anyway, where were you going with this, Rebecca Hayter?

[Becky]

It was just, I was just having some interesting conversations, like, trying to figure out the root cause of. Like, there's no root cause.

[Kayla]

We're human.

[Becky]

Yeah, that's what I came to the conclusion of.

[Kayla]

Like, do you really think that we're meant to be monogamous?

[Becky]

I think that we are meant to live in communities where we have support from other people.

[Kayla]

How do you do that without falling in love with multiple people?

[Becky]

I, I agree. I think it's a. Interesting conversation. Like, I fall in love really easily. I don't leave my house that often. So I'm never really putting myself in situations to like, allow for there to be any kind of conversation. If I'm, if I'm start having a conversation with someone that I could be like, oh, I would definitely date this person or hook up with them. I tend to take myself out of that situation to have. But like, I'm not putting myself in those situations on purpose. Like, it's intentful.

[Kayla]

So Like, I think that that's where like people getting super jealous and like deceitful in their relationships is like, like, oh, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong. Where it's ingrained in us for it to be wrong. But really, I think a small percentage of it is really human nature. And it's all comes down to like, if you're gonna act on it or not, depending on what the, the conversations that you're having with your partner are, what would they. What would be cheating, what would be not, but like, it would be impossible. Like when people are in relationships and they're like, oh, I can't believe you find. Find that other person attractive. Like, have you lost your mind? You're a huge. You're a creature. Yeah, of course you're gonna think somebody else is attractive.

[Becky]

Like my cheating, if I were to ever had, which I don't foresee a future that I would. If I were to cheat on Leah, it would be a thousand times worse if I cheated on her in an emotional way than a physical way. Because if I like just have like a one night stand with someone and it means nothing. Like if I like randomly make out with someone at a bar or something, like that definitely meant absolutely nothing to me. But if I like give my emotions and give my like love and being to someone else, that's gonna like be a lot different.

[Kayla]

I agree.

[Becky]

I also like, I'm like, I'm not. I'm also not one. Like I find everyone attractive.

[Kayla]

Like even me.

[Becky]

Yes.

[Kayla]

Thanks.

[Becky]

That's all, that's all she needed today, folks.

[Kayla]

And the rest was history. My entire day was great.

[Becky]

Like people are beautiful. So like, like mostly women. I. Who. Where was I that I said, your husband is one of the most attractive people I've ever met, met or seen. I forget. I think men are attractive too.

[Kayla]

Some. Some of them are, but mostly not.

[Becky]

Yeah. So I agree. I don't think that like denying yourself that there's like attraction other places I think is just ignorant.

[Kayla]

Well, no, and that's. I just for. It's a lot of stories that I hear about like, my friends will come and maybe I was like this too when I was younger, like very jealous of my person finding someone else attractive. But like, I've lived enough lives between then and now that I like understand that you can't help it. And it's just like nature of.

[Becky]

Yeah. Of life being hit on is enough for me. I don't need To. I don't need to go anywhere past that. It was fun. When I said that to Leah, she goes, becky, you get hit on online all the time. I said, yeah, but it's not the same in person.

[Kayla]

It's definitely. Just. Definitely hits different.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, but, you know, would consider the enjoyment of getting hit on cheating.

[Becky]

It's not.

[Alessandra]

No, I agree. That's crazy.

[Kayla]

Oh, well. And getting mad at someone in a relationship for being hit on. What the did you want me to do about that?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Oh, no. But I need to send you guys this picture in the group. Like, Billy is, like, anytime, like, a barista, like, hits on him or gives him, like, whipped cream for free, he immediately texts me. The other day, he sent me a picture with a woman. His hands are behind his back. Physical contact at all. And that's why I think when me and Billy are like, we're gonna get down with being swingers, because I trust that man. Like, he is this, like, barricade. Like, it is the funniest you've ever seen in your entire life.

[Kayla]

And then there are people who cannot control themselves. They get hit on and immediately take it to the next level.

[Becky]

But that's. That's also. That's also the a part of the game. Right. It's like, are you, like, you're not reciprocating it in a way that, like, is disrespectful to your relationship? You're not making people seem like they have a chance. When I get hit on the first. The probably the next 20 words out of my mouth are, you should see how hot my wife is. Like, you should see us. You know what I'm like.

[Kayla]

Yeah, but not everyone is like that. I think that people. No cheating can, in my opinion, stem from, like, you're maybe not used to getting hit on, and so you act on it.

[Becky]

Yeah. Like, you want that or you, like, you just don't feel the attention at home either. Right. Like, you're not getting that validation inside your relationship too.

[Kayla]

Have you ever heard of post nut clarity?

[Becky]

No, I have.

[Kayla]

Someone told me about this yesterday. That's why I literally. It's like, top of mind. Wait, why are you. Why, Alessandro? What was the woman who has had.

[Alessandra]

One night stands I've experienced, like, what goblin did I just bring home?

[Kayla]

No, not the goblin. No.

[Alessandra]

So he's out of your apartment. It's rough.

[Kayla]

He literally told me that there is something that men. I don't know if women do it. Maybe women also have it, but he was speaking from a man's perspective. Like post nut clarity, where you're like, you act on impulse. It's not maybe someone that you would even normally hook up with, but for whatever reason, you hook up with this person. And after you, you come, you're like, what the was that? Like, what did I just do? Holy. What did I do? I just up and I. Because I would say more women are more emotional cheaters. And it's like, not necessarily about that. I like, can't understand, like, I'm gonna someone and then just be like, what the was that? Like, I knew what I was doing when I did it.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

And so he was telling me about post not clarity, and I was just floored because I was like, but. So men really will stick it in anything and then think about the consequences later.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

Yikes.

[Becky]

It is fascinating. Human genetics, you know, like, genetics.

[Kayla]

Do you think cheating is genetic?

[Becky]

I think no. I think that, like, your testosterone levels.

[Kayla]

Are probably like, okay, so then like you were saying, masculine lesbians, if they have higher testosterone. Yeah, testosterone. I also have high testosterone.

[Becky]

So she's a mess.

[Kayla]

I'm a mask. I'm a switch. I just. Yeah. What the is that? Like, have you ever done that? Have you ever had a one night stand? And you're like, what the did I just do? Or you've never really been in a situation where it mattered what the you just did?

[Becky]

No, I've never been in a situation where it mattered because I've never cheated on anyone. Or like, the only one night stands I've had were when I was single for the week between my girlfriend.

[Kayla]

Oh, yeah.

[Alessandra]

I want to clarify. It wasn't cheating. It was more so like. Like, I'm not actually attractive to this person. I was just drunk off tequila and wanted to have sex. I never have cheated. Just want to clarify.

[Kayla]

Alessandra and Becky have never cheated in their lives. And I have absolutely cheated. But contrary to popular belief, I did not cheat on every single person I've been with. So just for those listening who are going to run back to all the troll pages, thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. I love my dogs. And when you have a pet, you love taking care of them because in their own way, they're taking care of you. But even if you're the best pet parent in the world, unpredictable things can happen. Unfortunately, Buddha was hit by a car last year and he needed surgery. He needed to fix his little foot. And that's where insurance comes into play. Fortunately, you can always give your care a boost. With ASPCA pet health insurance, your pet is part of the family and you want the best for them no matter what. But the vet bills can really add up. And that's why you should check out pet insurance. And with ASPCA pet health insurance, you can focus on the care your pet deserves and cover what matters the most. We know we insure so many things from cars and homes to cell phones and even travel plans, but what about insurance for your cat or your dog? Isaac recently brought home a kitten and I immediately was like, we need pet health insurance. Okay, so with ASPCA pet health insurance, you can focus on the care your pet deserves and cover what matters most. Most. The ASPCA Pet health insurance program offers customizable accident and illness plans, making it easier for pet parents like us to help our pets get the care they may need. And to explore this coverage, visit aspcapetinsurance.com karma that's aspcapetinsurance.Com karma again, that's aspcapetinsura.com karma this is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Ltd. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance.

[Becky]

You think that we should have a boxing match together? Yeah. Against each other?

[Kayla]

No.

[Becky]

We could raise money for charity or something.

[Kayla]

I'm not signing up to get my ass whooped, but thank you. There are only about one person in this entire world that I would sign up to go into a boxing match with you. I'm never. Because I already know what you're capable of. And I know that I have no chance in hell.

[Becky]

So that also. That also makes me feel better.

[Kayla]

That tracks.

[Becky]

So moral of this story is we need a more normalize emotions between men so they become softer beings. We need to treat our boys better and raise our girls to have higher standards.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Becky]

And last moral of the story is, if you see me in public, hit on me.

[Kayla]

If you see Becky in public, just tell her how good she looks. Tell her you think she's attractive, but you don't want to take it any further.

[Becky]

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that support. Oh, maybe. Maybe I'll get hit on at Pride.

[Kayla]

I hope I get hit on it. Pride.

[Alessandra]

You're definitely getting hit on on Pride. Both of you are crazy.

[Becky]

Should we make out again?

[Kayla]

Wait, this is the anniversary of us making out. Should we carry signs around of the picture? Yeah, make out. Make out. Make Out. Imagine my kids will be like, what the.

[Becky]

Yeah. They'll be so confused. Like, what the.

[Kayla]

Like, why'd you make out with Aunt Becky?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

Brooding incest.

[Becky]

Also. That's also another thing. Like, I probably have talked about this before, but that's why representation matters so much for people like, especially like, young queer youth. Like, I could never imagine have. Being. Have lived an authentic life since the moment I started having, like, thoughts of attraction to people. Because I never really knew I was gay. Because I never really met any gay people until college. I never even knew what it really was. And so it's just a really beautiful thing that youth today feels like there is a little bit more opportunity for them.

[Kayla]

Yeah. Speaking of that, Jojo Siwa is getting a lot of. For her sexuality. What's going on with that?

[Becky]

She's a little.

[Kayla]

Is she not? Does it matter? Like, why are we creating?

[Becky]

It doesn't matter, right? Like, I like, if she wants to end up being with a guy that is like, you, you don't. People shouldn't have to be locked into a label or whatever they think. I probably could end up dating a guy if I, like, met a guy that I, like, fell in love with. But the thing with her is she's just messy with her relationships. Like, she's very public with her relationships and is really messy with, like, the starting and the stopping of it. So if you want to give her shit, give her shit for just being a bad partner. Don't give her about her sexuality. Like, what the. Does it matter?

[Kayla]

Okay, Because I was confused. Like, who gives a. If she's with a man or a woman? Like, who cares?

[Becky]

But it's also, It's. I don't think it's like, I don't think she is with that guy, which also makes like. But it seems like she is. But also we, you know, like, you should know better than most people. Like, people prying into celebrities lives too, like, trying to understand what's going on and like, who's.

[Kayla]

Like, who cares?

[Becky]

Everyone cares. But who.

[Kayla]

I don't give a. If you were with a man, if you came to me. Well, no, I wouldn't want to wish that on your family. But, like, if you came to me, you're like, I'm gonna go back to a man. I'd be like, okay, did you feel the need to announce that to me?

[Becky]

It would. You would react very differently. Not in, like, I didn't feel accepted, but in a. What the. What does he look? How does that happen?

[Kayla]

Like a man. They're Disgusting.

[Becky]

A man.

[Kayla]

Like, penises are ugly. Like, what do you mean? But outside of that, Like, I wouldn't. It wouldn't be like a. Are you straight now? It would just be like, you love people, but, like, why did you pick a man?

[Becky]

Yeah. Hopefully that day will never come. But you never know. Speaking of just representation, real quick, I wanted to tell this quick little story. Do you know my. No, you haven't met her. I'm not even gonna say names, but one of my friends has a daughter, and she calls her the gay police because, like, she loves me and Leah so much. She's 7 years old, and, like, so, like, one time she was playing merit, like, marriage with, like, her little group of friends, and she was like, oh, I'm gonna marry this girl. And someone was like, you can't do that. Like, it's. That's a boy. Like, it has to be a boy. And she was like, aunt Becky and Leah got married, so that means that I can get. I can marry whoever I want. And then she just FaceTimed me last night to tell me that, like, there was another little boy in her school that was saying something that, like, two women, like, they have to be able to have babies. And she's like, like, aunt Becky and Leah are having a baby, and women can decide not to have children, too, and that's okay. Like. Like. So we call her the little gay police now.

[Kayla]

Wait. Lux asked me yesterday on the way to soccer. It was on the way to soccer, away from. Whatever it was was before or after soccer. And he was. He said that one of Lincoln's friends told him how to make a baby. And I was like, oh, my God. And I said, what did he say? And he told me, and I was like, he got half of the details correct. And then it was like, well, a dad does this and a mom does this. And I literally said, but Aunt Becky and her wife are having a baby. And he sort of was just like, oh, okay, so how do you do that? I was, like, sort of the same way. Like, it's still the same ingredients. And I, like, tried to explain it to him, but I was like, like, we'll talk more about it when you're a little bit older, so you can understand. But I literally have to use you guys as an example, because I don't know any other lesbians that are having a baby.

[Becky]

Happy, Happy to be the first.

[Kayla]

Before we go, we have an. Is it karma or is it chaos? Hey, ladies. Love your podcast so much. So happy you're back being besties you are a great duo. My current situation is doing my head in. I really need some others opinions. I don't know if this is my karma or just some crazy chaos that I didn't wish for. I mentioned karma because I have cheated in the past in a previous relationship. Same tease girl. I get it. I found out recently that my now husband had a full on affair for four months with a girl, but it was five years ago. She even felt pregnant and he made her have an abortion. They were seeing each other at least five times per week. She was single but she knew he had a partner, a son and didn't care. I was living with him and we had our two year old son. In the meantime we've got married and had another son. He blows it off by saying it was so long ago and he was young and stupid and would never do anything like that again. He was also on steroids for the gym and they turned him into making dumb decisions. I'm just still in complete shock. He even proposed to me after the abortion and then saw her one more time after this. It's so disgusting. I do think in the last five years he has been faithful. But how on earth can I just move past this? Where's his punishment? I don't want our family to break up. I just don't know how to forgive and try to forget something so intense. Thank you for any advice. It doesn't matter if it was five years ago, 10 years ago, three years ago, three months ago, you just found out. So it is a betrayal no matter what. So I do not give a fuck if it was 20 fucking years ago. It is a betrayal.

[Becky]

It is a valid reason for wanting. Like you're going. You're going to go through different stages of grief.

[Kayla]

Yeah. And for me, you don't get to just blow it off because it happened five years ago. That's not how this works. Like that's not how the human brain works. That's not how we process things. It is brand new to you. You just found out. So with that being said, I have no advice outside of not making a decision right now. Is probably the only advice I can give is you do not have to make a decision right now. I think you need to sit with it for a little bit. If you know that you don't want your family to break up, I think that's okay and nobody can tell you otherwise. But with that being said, you don't also have to make permanent decisions based on your emotions in this moment.

[Becky]

Caitlin, I think that was really great advice from you.

[Kayla]

Shocking.

[Becky]

I know, I know. My advice is two things. Staying with someone after you've been cheated on is the hardest thing that you'll ever have to do in your life. And if you are not prepared or do not think that you can do that, don't. Number two is your partner needs to accept all of the things that they are going to have to go through in these next six months. Year of needing some type of. What is the word?

[Kayla]

Reassurance.

[Becky]

Yeah, reassurance. They are going to have to deal with you getting mad at things that they. You used to not get mad at. They're going to have to just eat every single argument and eat all the shit that is going to come because is you're going to be insecure about this. The smallest things moving forward, it'll go away. But these next six months to a year are really rough and you need a partner that is going to accept the damages that they caused.

[Kayla]

And I think just to piggyback off of what you're saying too is more. Maybe it's not even about the cheating itself at this point because it was five years ago, but they need to support you through this grieving process if you want to work it out. And they also want to work it out. If your husband wants to work it out too. He needs to be a. A true support system. There was a conversation that came up when we were with the girls and it was like if cheating comes up in conversations or in a movie or in this or in that, like your partner needs to provide reassurance and true unconditional love while you're going through this because there's going to be times where you're okay. They're going to be days and weeks that you're okay. And then there's going to be times where you. You don't know why you're getting emotional, but something triggers. There's that memory in you and you know about it and you're going through. It's a roller coaster of emotions. And I know this because I've been a cheater and I've been cheated on. I've been on both sides of it and you don't have to make any decisions. But if he's not going to support you through this process for this next six months to a year, like Becky said, and I think that that's a good time frame. If he does not support you and reassure you in the next six to 12 months, I personally wouldn't stay. It's because at that point it's more about the reassurance and the effort and the work that he's going to put in than it about the cheating. That's my personal take on it.

[Becky]

Yeah, don't give him a pass to sweep this on the rug because it was so long ago. Like, this is fresh, new, new news to you. So do what you got to do. Protect yourself, take care of yourself, because that shit is not easy at all.

[Kayla]

Yep. Love that. I sent you a stamp shirt. Are you going to buy it?

[Becky]

I love you. We are in different tax brackets. I don't spend $90 on a T shirt.

[Kayla]

I'll buy it for you.

[Becky]

No, I don't need it.

[Kayla]

Don't worry, I'll get it for you.

[Becky]

I did, however, did just spend money on a new vlogging camera, but I justified it as a write off because I have been vlogging more and I wanted a better camera to vlog with with.

[Kayla]

Okay, that's fair. But I also think that this shirt could be a tax write off because we talked about it on the podcast and you'll wear it on the podcast. So it is also a tax write off. It's on the podcast. You're vlogging in it. It's a write off.

[Becky]

I'm picking up what you're putting down.

[Kayla]

But yeah, you know, so justifications.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayla]

Technicality. All right, y' all. We hope that you loved this episode of Karma and Chaos. Where can people find you, you hater25.

[Becky]

On all social media? Send me a DM telling me I'm cute.

[Kayla]

Also, don't forget to subscribe for the haters on Spotify, Apple, wherever you can get your podcast. The season 3 is out now. You can also follow Becky's Instagram for the haters. Do you have a Facebook group?

[Becky]

Yeah, for the haters.

[Kayla]

And all of our Pride merch is also out on kaylavry.com and we would love for you to be wearing your lesbian.

[Becky]

See you guys at Pride.

[Kayla]

See ya.

[Alessandra]

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[Kayla]

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[Alessandra]

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[Kayla]

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[Becky]

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[Alessandra]

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[Kayla]

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[Alessandra]

Hi, I'm Adam Rippon and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I.

[Becky]

Probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits.

[Alessandra]

Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I Unclear, but if you've ever.

[Becky]

Laid awake at night cringing at something.

[Alessandra]

You said five years ago, congratulations. You found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.