(ENCORE) Stever Beaver (Happy Holidays!)

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Episode: (ENCORE) Stever Beaver (Happy Holidays!)
Release Date: December 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this festive holiday episode, hosts Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter dive into their personal holiday traditions, the emotional complexities of the season, and the rekindling of their friendship. Recorded in Kail’s office in Dover, Delaware, the episode is a candid mix of laughter, warmth, nostalgia, and real talk about family, motherhood, sleep struggles, grief during the holidays, and friendship drama—plus some irreverent fun around limos, pajamas, and pop culture.

The mood moves seamlessly from joyful reminiscing to frank discussions on grief and loss, offering listeners a deeply relatable look into modern adulthood—with extra holiday cheer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday Traditions, Culture, and Family Dynamics (00:37–10:43)

• Cultural Traditions: Becky discusses her attorney’s Jewish traditions and curiosity about Greek Orthodox customs. Kail explains her background and how her family celebrated Christmas, mentioning Greek Orthodox midnight mass and the difference between Greek and standard Easter celebrations.
  • "I just grew up in a Christmas household.” – Kail (01:51)
• Matching Pajamas & Holiday Spirit: Becky adores Christmas and makes Kail wear matching PJs for the episode (02:00–02:17).
• Changing Family Traditions: Both hosts reflect on how divorce, custody arrangements, and shifting family dynamics changed the meaning and logistics of holidays as adults and parents.
  • Becky shares how her family stopped celebrating Christmas when she was 13 and the complicated logistics with extended family custody schedules. She explains preferring a quiet Christmas with movies and Chinese food—no guilt, just honesty. (05:50–06:50)
• Gift Anxieties & Sibling Dynamics: Kail discusses feeling traumatized as “the youngest of five,” receiving less exciting gifts once family traditions scaled down, and how her nieces helped her rediscover her love for the holidays through a child’s eyes (07:19–09:38).

2. Motherhood: Anticipation, Sleep, and Practical Challenges (02:28–05:49, 14:24–15:26)

• Sleep Regression at 34?: Kail candidly discusses her unexpected struggle with sleep as she prepares for motherhood, wondering if it’s hormonal, psychological, or related to starting a new medication (Manjaro/GOP-1) (02:54–04:26).
  • “Is there such thing as a sleep regression at 34 years old?” – Kail (02:54)
  • Becky reassures: “Yeah, it’s real. It just is. No explanation... that’s not science backed, but it is.” (05:37)
• Motherhood Sleep Deprivation: Both admit the “hell” of the first year as moms with little sleep; Kail shares her caregiving experience for her dad as a preview of what’s to come (04:45–05:37).
• Small Children at Christmas: Kail and Becky agree the burden should not be on families with young kids to travel for the holidays. (10:03–10:43)
  • “Like, we’re the one with the small children.” – Becky (10:39)

3. Holiday Joy, Grief, and Navigating Firsts (16:07–24:28, 25:57–28:12)

• Childhood Nostalgia: Kail fondly recalls the tradition of stockings placed at her feet on Christmas morning—even after a drunken night passed out in the bathroom (17:09–17:23).
• Simple Gifts & Memories: Their families focused more on thoughtful, simple gifts (often from the Dollar Store), not expensive presents, underscoring the importance of connection over consumerism (17:44–18:22).
• Finding the Holiday Spirit: Becky admits she no longer feels compelled to celebrate Christmas, weighing the sadness of forced traditions against the desire for meaning and connection.
  • “The sadness... does not outweigh the desire to do Christmas...” – Becky (18:31)
• Permission to Feel (or Not): Kail offers validation to listeners experiencing their first holidays after a loss, reminding them that “grief can sit in the back”—it need not dominate or ruin moments of joy. (23:17–24:13)
  • “You're allowed to enjoy life still... grief can sit in the back.” – Kail (24:01)

4. Friendship: Rekindling, Boundaries, & Shared Experiences (28:12–32:23, 33:04–38:38)

• Celebrating Together: Kail invites Becky to her family’s Christmas Eve in two years—a playful pact that both agree to (“If we’re still friends...”) (28:13–28:37).
• Reunions & New Partners: Becky describes her first meeting with Kail’s partner Elijah and the relaxed, equal feeling he brings, calling out how Kail has allowed herself to be happy. (28:49–30:23)
  • “...you are clearly happy. I felt the breeze of the eye roll from here.” – Becky (29:18)
  • Kail discusses feeling safe to let some control go in this partnership, which defies “gender roles” and feels genuinely equal (30:23–31:18).
• Reuniting with Kids: Becky warmly recounts reconnecting with Kail’s children and the joy of picking up bonds with them—especially Isaac—where they left off (33:04–34:47). Kail describes the comfort and pride she feels seeing this connection:
  • “When people recognize the relationship that I have with my kids... it just makes me feel...” – Kail (38:04)
• Motherhood Guilt & Intensity: Kail shares her guilt over travel (“Do you ever feel guilty because you leave your kids so much?”), how separations hit her emotionally, and why she cherishes any moment together, no matter how chaotic. (38:38–40:22)

5. Holiday Whimsy, Couple “Weirdness,” and Humor (41:23–44:16)

• Making Up Silly Songs: Discussion about singing to their pets (“Stever Beaver”) and the weird things partners do—often only in front of those closest to them. (41:23–42:38)
  • “Her dog’s name is Stevie...we’re like, stever beaver!” – Becky (41:41)
  • Elijah rates Kail “probably like, a four” on the weirdness scale, which shocks her (43:57–44:13).

6. Books and Pop Culture Rabbit Holes (45:03–50:20)

• What They’re Reading: Kail is reading “None Left to Tell” and just received “The Crash” by Frieda McFadden (45:06–45:22). Becky started the “Red Rising” series and feels betrayed for not being warned about the emotional first chapters (45:30–45:59).
  • “Y’all are freaking fake for not warning me about how sad it is...” – Becky (45:35)
• Book Recommendations: Discussion of fantasy/smutty books (“Fourth Wing” as “X-rated Harry Potter”), suggestions for reading as couples, and explanations for the uninitiated (48:47–50:20).
• Pop culture drama: Kail and Becky break down the fallout between podcasters Brianna Chickenfry and Grace O’Malley (“everyone is picking sides... both wrong in their own ways...”). They share lessons learned about handling friendship fallouts privately versus airing it out online, highlighting why their own public silence enabled them to rebuild. (51:10–57:38)
  • “You never did that to me once.” – Kail (56:46)

7. Listener Community and Podcast Purpose (60:48–65:07)

• Becky reads a message from a listener who connected with other grieving moms through their podcast community—a powerful testament to the podcast building real connections (60:48–62:16).
  • “You’re making a difference, even when it seems overwhelming.” – Listener (61:12)
• Both hosts express gratitude, set boundaries around responding to every DM, and encourage joining their Facebook group for more shared support (62:16–65:07).
  • “...even if we don’t respond, we do see so many messages from you guys. So many comments. Like, we see them, we value them, we love them...” – Kail (63:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Christmas Traditions:
  • "My favorite Christmases are the nights that I got drunk with my sisters and brothers... and I got to write a note from Santa." – Kail (09:11)
• On Sleep Loss & New Motherhood:
  • "Is there such thing as a sleep regression at 34 years old?" – Kail (02:54)
  • "That part of motherhood... it’s absolute hell." – Becky (04:45)
• On Grief During the Holidays:
  • “You're allowed to enjoy life still... grief can sit in the back.” – Kail (24:01)
  • “If you’re grieving, those feelings are valid as well. So easy on yourself. I see everyone that might be going through firsts or seconds or thirds or tenths that are still hard.” – Kail (24:14)
• On Friendship:
  • "If either of us talked about our fallout publicly, we wouldn’t be friends again." – Becky (54:23)
  • "You never did that to me once." – Kail (56:46)
• On Parental Guilt:
  • "Within 20 minutes of waking up in the morning, they could piss me off... but I would go through that, being irritated and overstimulated, 10 times over just to be with them." – Kail (38:38)
• On Relationship Equality:
  • "We don’t have gender roles. In all aspects of this household, we’re a united front..." – Kail (30:23)

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Conversation Timestamps for Key Segments

• Holiday traditions & family backgrounds: 00:37–06:50
• Motherhood and sleep issues: 02:54–05:49
• Holiday grief & permission to feel: 23:17–24:28
• Friendship deals & reunions: 28:12–34:47
• Parenting & emotional connections: 38:38–40:22
• Pop culture updates & drama: 51:10–57:38
• Listener stories & community: 60:48–65:07

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Tone & Style Reflection

The conversation is warm, irreverent, highly personal, and deeply relatable. Both hosts veil hard truths with humor and honesty, never shying away from tough topics, and frequently poking fun at themselves and each other. The episode balances vulnerability—especially on motherhood, grief, and friendship—with laugh-out-loud storytelling and classic “winging it” banter.

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For New Listeners: Why This Episode Is Worth Your Time

Kail and Becky invite you into their private world, where the messiness of real relationships, parenting, and adult life is not only accepted but celebrated. Whether you’re navigating grief, rethinking holiday traditions, dealing with complicated family structures, or seeking laughter in shared memories, this episode offers comfort and connection. Their willingness to address hard feelings alongside moments of pure silliness makes “Karma & Chaos” a space of community and authentic sharing.

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Happy Holidays from Karma & Chaos!

Transcript

[A]

Every holiday shopper's got a list. But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission. Like a gift run that turns into a disco snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family. Dog included. At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more. It's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic. Hey, welcome back to karma and chaos.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Coming at you live from Kale's office.

[B]

Coming at you live from Dover, Delaware.

[A]

From Dover, Delaware.

[B]

So I was talking to my attorney.

[A]

Happy holidays.

[B]

I can't get a word in. And she was telling me because she's Jewish. And she was telling me about some of the things that she does for the holidays. And she was asking me about what I do. And I said, well, of my girlfriends is at the house. And she grew up Greek Orthodox. And now I want to pick her brain about what she did for the holidays growing up mine.

[A]

I mean, I'm not Jewish, so that.

[B]

It'S not like Greek Orthodox. Is that, like a different religion?

[A]

Why? He said, what?

[B]

Is there traditions associated with being Greek Orthodox?

[A]

Yeah, but, like, not outside of.

[B]

Okay, so there's no, like.

[A]

I mean, like, there's church traditions, like, you go to midnight mass. But I feel like that's normal for Christians in general there.

[B]

Like, you know how, like, in my attorney's culture, she is Jewish, she celebrates Hanukkah, but she married someone who's not Jewish. So they also celebrate Christmas. Like, is there things. Do you celebrate Christmas after Christmas?

[A]

Greek Easter? Yeah, Greek Easter is different, but Christmas is, I think, the same for 12 days of Christmas.

[B]

Like, do you celebrate the 12 days?

[A]

No, I just celebrate. I don't even know.

[B]

Am I crazy? Do you get what I'm asking you?

[A]

I guess I get what you're asking, King, but I just grew up in a Christmas household.

[B]

Happy, merry Christmas.

[A]

Merry, happy holidays. Merry Christmas to those. I forced Kale to wear matching PJs because this is one of my favorite holidays. And if you want to see us in the matching. In the matching pajamas, go to patreon.com k. You can watch us giggle.

[B]

Anyway, she also asked me to change the blanket out because I had a springtime blanket and it didn't go with the Christmas vibes.

[A]

That's not even a springtime blanket. That's like a child's blanket.

[B]

Off. It's for Valley girl. Mom.

[A]

I also. I'm not fully recovered from New Orleans. I know. Last week's episode. I can't wait to re listen to it because.

[B]

No, I cannot wait to list I don't ever listen back. Yeah, the way that I cried laughing about that.

[A]

It was really good.

[B]

Was it, though? Like, I don't even know if the content was good. I just remember laughing a lot.

[A]

Comment down below you. Do you know that Tick Tocker?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, she's so funny. Anyway, my serious question is, and this is for everyone out there, is there such thing as a sleep regression? At 34 years old, I have been not sleeping. And I don't know if it's because I am now going to be a mother, and there's just like this newfound stress in my mind when. But I am someone who puts their head down on the pillow, closes my eyes, and I am asleep in two minutes and I am asleep for the rest of the night. I do not wake up. I wake up to my alarm, or I wake up if I've slept long enough, I don't wake up. These past two weeks, I cannot sleep.

[B]

I'm very afraid of what I'm about to say.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because if that's new and our rekindling is new.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's not about you. We rekindled back in June, right? It's about you.

[B]

It's like six months.

[A]

I think Leah thinks it's because I did a Manjaro shot two weeks ago.

[B]

What is that? Manjaro.

[A]

It's like the GOP one.

[B]

Oh, okay. Does it give you energy?

[A]

No, it makes you not feel great. But Leah couldn't sleep the first time she tried it, and. But I've done it before, so I. That's why I didn't associate it with it. But now I just, like, lay there at night and I don't sleep.

[B]

I wonder if anything, any of it has to do with the fact that you are about to be a mom.

[A]

And I only thinking about things.

[B]

Well, no, I almost. I. I just say that because it's like a subconscious thing, right? Like you're about to be up all night all the time. And I like. I don't know, I just feel like that might have something to do with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe, like, subconsciously, you know? But also, it's like prepping you. I just want you to know that that part of the mother of motherhood, like that first, like, year of sleep deprivation. I. It's absolute health.

[A]

Will say that I unfortunately got a little bit of a taste of it when I watched my dad because I would. He would stay over, like, two, three nights a week, right? And I wouldn't sleep because any movement, like, I'd, like, shoot up Awake and then cried at him like, please just go to sleep. Like, I need you to go to sleep. I'd wake up the next morning and be like, I understand how people snap like themselves or and their child because of this. Like, just the lack of sleep. The, like pleading just to just please go to sleep. Yeah. Anyway, back to Christmas.

[B]

Sleep depriv or no sleep regression at 30 years old. I. You know what? Yeah. It's real. It just is. There's no explanation associated. I don't have any that's not science backed, but it is. It's real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Christmas. Stop celebrating Christmas with my family. When I was 13 years old, stopped doing Christmas. Tried to bring it back when I became a mom. Started to go to my aunt's house and stuff like that for Christmas. And then it was a custody battle. It was a. It was a fight about custody every single year, no matter what was in the order. So I tried it for a couple years, decided that wasn't going to be working out. And my cousin got divorced at the same time I got divorced. And our years for Christmas didn't make sense. Like, she had her kids on the years that I didn't have my kids. And so it was just like, why am I even gonna go up there, drive four hours to be with everybody else's kids, not have my. We're done here. My attorney asked me that today when we were in court, and she was like, you don't do anything. And what about, you know, your kids with Elijah? And I'm like, no. If he wants to take the kids to his family's house, like, by all means, like, have a ball. I'm gonna watch movies and eat Chinese food.

[A]

Yeah. Not my life. Not.

[B]

Why don't you like Christmas?

[A]

No, I do like Christmas, but I like Christmas now. But in my mind, I'm just thinking, do you feel like when your kids are adults, they're gonna resent not having Christmas? Growing up when they get to have Christmas in whatever life they are, like, choose to live with their families.

[B]

Are you asking about my kids?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. Because they don't know any different. They also have Christmas with their dads, so they will if they want.

[A]

Yeah. I just, I. I guess I really started to love Christmas. Well, different. There's different layers of me loving Christmas. I am not a good gift receiver. I was traumatized from Christmas growing up because I'm the youngest of five. So I got shafted from Christmas gift because Christmas was always this huge thing for all of my siblings. And then they. We stopped doing Bigger Christmas gifts and like, all these gifts when I was still at an age, I should have had it.

[B]

Wait, no, no, no, no, no, no. Break this down for me further. I'm not following.

[A]

Because I had such, like, older siblings, and so they. They stopped doing Christmas gifts for them. So it stopped being like, little. A lot of little gifts and just one big gift. But as like a 10 year old, that's not really what you want to experience as Chris from Christmas. You want to open a bunch of gifts and like. Well, at least for me, right from my family perspective.

[B]

But why didn't. Why didn't they just keep doing it for you? Because you were the youngest and they are so much older than you.

[A]

Yeah, mom, you're listening. Why didn't you keep doing it for me? So I hated. I really didn't like Christmas. I pinpoint it. I got a camcorder by, like, I was 12 or 13, and I was just like, what am I gonna do with a camcorder?

[B]

Oh, you didn't ask for it. No.

[A]

And so. And that was my only.

[B]

What?

[A]

And that was my only gift and which is expensive. Like, I should have been grateful, but.

[B]

Yeah, maybe for a digital camera.

[A]

Yeah, it just. What? Like, I don't know why I got it, but I got it. And from then, that's where me really not liking Christmas and gifts and everything kind of started. And then I. My nieces really made me fall back in love with Christmas because it was about them and not about myself, like.

[B]

Seeing it through their eyes.

[A]

Yeah. So. So my favorite Christmases are the nights that I got drunk with my sisters and brothers and family and I got to take a bite of a carrot. I got to write a note from Santa, like, you know, like, drinking with my family while my nieces were gonna wake up the next morning with, like, that Santa had, like, come. And those are my favorite Christmases, hands down.

[B]

Because you experienced it through them.

[A]

Yeah. And then for a while, it was. It just that that's what Christmas was about. And then I met Leah. And Leah wasn't a Christmas person. She was a product of divorce. She hated having to always have, you know, two Christmases. It never felt like something celebrated. And then we became Christmas people ourselves. Are. It looks like Santa's workshop in our house.

[B]

No, I love that.

[A]

We love Christmas.

[B]

Well, I think too, just to go back on, like, Leah's experience, it feels more of, like, scheduled. Like you have to sort of. Okay, well, I have to be at my dad's house at this time. I have to be at my mom's house at this time I have to like schedule it out. You don't get to like fully. Just like I want to go somewhere for Christmas and I want to be there. I don't want to have to worry about going to the next person's house at fucking 1:30 in the afternoon. Because otherwise, you know what I mean? It just feels like a lot. And especially with you about to become a mom is like. And I'm not going to tell you what to do obviously, but you know people that have small children, I just feel like to expect them to get up and like remove themselves from their home to go to them. It's like, well shouldn't you come to us? Like we're the one with the small children.

[A]

Small children comes to us already. We Christmas every year, so it'll be fun. This will be our last Christmas without a little child.

[B]

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[A]

Two Christmases from now will be like the true. I get to relive that again as a parent.

[B]

Probably three. Three Christmases two. Still not understanding.

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

Like Rio. I'm so excited he has no idea what the he's doing. Like, he's just happy to be here.

[A]

Knows a lot about dinosaurs though.

[B]

I read a study, it might have been a tick tock actually.

[A]

And I was just hanging out with him reading a book on dinosaurs. That's why.

[B]

I read something. But it was actually a tick tock.

[A]

I always do that.

[B]

That said, like, an obsession with dinosaurs is linked to like being extremely smart. Like there's like a link to the fascination and obsession with dinosaurs. And like sat next to me for.

[A]

30 minutes pointing at the SC name five dinosaurs and just kept talking about them. So.

[B]

Which is so funny because the book before, the one that he was giving you was also a dinosaur book, but it was more of like a cartoon dinosaur book, but it was still dinosaurs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So actually Leah just texted me. I sent her a picture of you and your Christmas pajamas with barn cat gumball venom. And she said, oh, my cute girl and a Giles mimic. My cute girl and a child's mimic.

[A]

Anyways, we do Christmas at our house. We're a big Christmas Eve family. We don't really celebrate Christmas Day too much.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Christmas Eve, the whole family comes over. We eat chicken parm every single Christmas Eve.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

We cook, we drink, we have so much fun. One of my favorite, some of my favorite memories. We grew up and trigger warning if.

[B]

You have children in the car, probably Skip the next 10 to 15 minutes because we talk about Santa.

[A]

Yeah. So I unfortunately didn't believe in Santa for a while because I was the youngest of five. My siblings woke me up to find our presents, to open them before Christmas Day. Like to open them very meticulously where you couldn't tell that they were opened. What, and your older siblings had to been like six or seven. Yeah. And like sneak to find them and open them and put them back. So Santa wasn't real for me for a really long time, which was fine. But for it was always really exciting because my parents always put stockings at our feet when we woke up at an every single age. It probably stopped when I was 20 and we would wake up and I would always go to bed so excited knowing that I would kick my feet and like feel my stocking at some point. And so when I think it was I was 18 or 19 and I got so drunk I passed out in the bathroom the night before and I woke up to my stocking at my feet in the bathroom.

[B]

In the bathroom.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Marianne is the go for that.

[A]

I don't know if it was my mom or my dad. I don't. My mom was definitely in charge of packing the stock, like, the presents, but I think my dad placed them, I.

[B]

Don'T know, like, in the bathroom.

[A]

Yeah. I can't wait to do that with our kids. Oh, thousand. That is. I. I haven't thought about that in forever because we haven't done it and so in 15 years. But waking and it's. And they were all tchotchke.

[B]

Like, what is that?

[A]

Like, socks, chapstick.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like, it was never. Christmas was never about expensive gifts for us. It was always just about the enjoyment of, like, opening. We were that family that my mom would bring us to the Dollar store to shop for everyone. And so we would go to the dollar store and we would get to pick out a gift for every. But it would. You know, we'd end up spending 20 bucks. Right. It was nothing. But it was still that act of, oh, this reminds me. Like, this candle reminds me of my sister.

[B]

We gotta tell Lindsay that. Because Lindsay and Will would fight about his Dollar Store candles. So you guys can gift each other Dollar store candles. Yeah.

[A]

So those are some of my favorite holiday. You should rethink your whole Grinch.

[B]

No, I have no desire like the sadness.

[A]

Even you and Elijah?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, you did do it.

[B]

We tried to do it last year after Christmas. We celebrated. I think it was like, the 27th or something like that. We did stockings. We did not do big gifts. And it just. It's just not for me. I have absolutely no interest. Like, you know, how you weigh. Like, the pros and the cons. You know, the pros outweigh the cons. Like, the sadness does not. The desire to do Christmas does not outweigh the sadness or anything. Like, I don't give a at this point. You know what I mean? Like, I feel lonely, and I let myself feel a little bit lonely for a couple little minutes and, like, sadness for, like, what used to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But other than that, I don't give a. Like, next year would like to be in another country.

[A]

How about this? Let's Make a Deal.

[B]

I'm not good at deals right now with you. We're 0 for 1. Okay? We're oh for 1 right now.

[A]

What was the first one?

[B]

The first one was, I told you it was done. Not gonna complain for the rest of the day. And I failed in three hours.

[A]

Kale woke up in the morning, complained about something, and looked at me and said, I'm not complaining for the rest of the day. And I said, I bet you a hundred dollars you will. You said you stood on ten toes and said, I'm not gonna complain. And then she threw a fit about a limo.

[B]

So why would someone book a stretch limo with malicious intent.

[A]

In the middle of a mental breakdown? And I looked at Lindsay and I said, do you think this is a bad time to bring up our bet?

[B]

I need to know we're talking. We're not. Please. If you're listening to this comment below, we are not considering any sort of monetary value here. Right. Because that's not. Comment on this post or whatever. I don't know what's going on. Oh, I'm thinking of, like, the clips. You know what I mean? What I'm trying to say is do not consider money. And what I'm about to say. Because what I'm about to say is going to come off very tone deaf. And I'm aware. I don't understand. I thought that we did away with stretch limos. I thought they were no longer being made, sold, utilized. There's just.

[A]

There's just a graveyard for them.

[B]

I thought they were all in a junkyard. And we were done with stretch limos. So we go to this event. It's me, Alessandra, Lindsay, and Becky. And a stretch limo pulls up to pick us up. And I look at him and I'm like, where's the car?

[A]

He's like, you said, I'm not getting in bad, sir.

[B]

I don't want to get in this.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not getting it in my head.

[B]

I said, where is the car? I thought I said it out loud. When Alessandra, I believe it was you that were like. Was like, this is the car. And I was like, no, it's not like, I don't want to get in this. It was a stretch limo with a hatchback.

[A]

Lindsay.

[B]

Taking us to a red carpet event. And I said, who the would book this? Why was this book. We could have gotten an Uber black. My favorite part was, you didn't know I was going to turn the strobe lights on. You did that. That was you.

[A]

Alessandra said she put the strobe lights on.

[B]

You guys.

[A]

Me and Lindsay were having the time of our life. And then the next day, Chandy texted us and goes, looks like you guys had so much fun in the limo. And Kel goes, who paid you to say that? I said, not the limo. He goes, what? It did? And I said, yeah, me and Lindsay had a blast.

[B]

It was not like, why would we. I thought they were rest in peace, you know what I mean? Like, Serious. Like dead serious in your whole soul. Because I thought that that was booked to purposely embarrass me. And I said to Alessandra, I look at her and I said, was that Melissa? Hold on. Was that malicious intent?

[A]

Like dead ass serious? Dude, she was so pissed. Like it was.

[B]

Why would you do that? Like, I would rather be seen in a Subaru.

[A]

It was so unnecessary though. Yeah.

[B]

Anyways, love Christmas. Hate Christmas.

[A]

So now that this has been two episodes with no crying, I do just want to bring up no crying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because people are like, oh, let's lighten, let's get some light hearted.

[B]

Oh, are you about to turn this one upside down?

[A]

Yeah, just a little bit.

[B]

Slightly.

[A]

Just a little bit. I. Because I want to recognize this is a lot of people's first holidays, including myself without someone there. And it's hard to navigate. Right. Like, you know you want. I've been navigating grief for a really long time. I don't like to dim my light because of grief. And I feel that people struggle with that, that they aren't allowed to enjoy something. And the moment they realize they're enjoying it, they kind of shut it down because they feel like they should be grieving instead. And I just want to give people a little bit of permission. You're allowed to enjoy life still. You're allowed to be happy and be excited and have those emotions of grief sitting there in the background. You know, they're allowed to take the back seat sometimes. Right. Grief can sit in the back. Enjoy it as much as you can.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But also on the other side, if you're grieving, those feelings are valid as well. So easy on yourself. I see everyone that might be going through firsts or seconds or thirds or tenths that are still hard.

[B]

So yeah, Okay. Now that the holidays are coming to a close, I just want to remind you guys that when life gets busy and you kind of don't know where to start or after the holidays and the leftovers are all gone, meal prep usually falls off the list. And that's why I want to remind you of Tempo. Tempo delivers fresh chef crafted dietitian approved meals right to your door. Each meal is perfectly portioned for lunch or dinner and ready in just two minutes. So that means real food, real fast, without the sad desk lunch or the drive thru regret. I can't tell you how many times I'm like, oh, McDonald's sounds good, but I don't want to do another fast food line. And with 20 new recipes every single week from nutrient rich ingredients Tempo keeps things exciting and helps you stay consistent with healthy habits. So no matter what your goals are, there's a Tempo meal for you. Protein packed meals with up to 30 grams of protein, calorie conscious, carb conscious and even fiber rich. It's convenient, but it's also flexible to fit the way you want to eat. And Tempo is even the official partner of the 2025 CrossFit Games, which is amazing. Proving their meals are built to support optimal nutrition and performance. For a limited time, Tempo is offering our listeners 60% off your first box. Go to tempomeals.com karma that's tempomeals.com karma for 60% off your first box. Tempomeals.com karma rules and restrictions may apply.

[A]

Holidays can be. I mean, even for you, right? Too. Holidays are obviously hard for you.

[B]

For sure. No, they're sad. I definitely feel my feelings and I think some years are harder than others. But I don't, I don't know how to say this without again, being tone deaf is like I haven't really lost someone that was super close to me in that way. So I can't speak to that part of it.

[A]

Yeah, but it's. Your grief isn't because of loss. Your grief is loss of an experience. Like, and that's just as sad.

[B]

I don't know if I feel it. I don't know if I feel it that same way.

[A]

You feel it in anger and denial. You don't feel it in sadness. Denial of denying Christmas. There's. I said I'm denying Christmas. The first time I came here, I was like, kale, you need like Christmas lights. Like, girl, this house is needed. It doesn't have to be. I should have just said lights because the word Christmas just triggered her into it. Absolutely not.

[B]

I don't think I recognize that it's like that angry, like. No, you say Christmas. Absolutely not.

[A]

I'm a sucker for lights. Permanent lighting. I haven't. The permanent lighting at my house is really nice. So, yeah, Christmas, I'm excited. And it's mine and Leah's. We got engaged on Christmas.

[B]

Christmas. We used to. We talked about it. We touched about it. We, we touched on this before. We used to do Christmas traditions. We did Kalahari one year with the kids.

[A]

We did.

[B]

We did Legoland with the kids. I definitely would be willing to bring that back because it's not like Christmas itself. It's more like a critic. Christmas time. Experience, experience, tradition situation. So I would definitely do that or I would do like a Christmas trip. Like if the other kids are with their dads. And I know that people have mixed feelings on this, but, like, if the other kids are with their dads for Christmas break, I would be willing to take, like, my kids with Elijah, like, on a trip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, I mean, at the end of.

[A]

The day, I'd be willing to do that, too, but I'd have to be back on Christmas Eve.

[B]

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. So, like, not do it.

[A]

Like, maybe I would leave Christmas Day.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same for sure. And then come back, like, around New Year's because, like, school. Back to school or whatever. Yeah, I just. I don't know, maybe one day. But for now, it's.

[A]

I never got to my deal.

[B]

What is your deal?

[A]

Two years from now, if we're still friends, You could. You should come and celebrate Christmas Eve with me and my family.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You and whatever kids you have.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Deal?

[B]

Yeah, deal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If we're still friends. Why did you add that part?

[A]

I just like to fuel the fire, you know?

[B]

Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.

[A]

Speaking of, we never talked about my reunion with your kids and my reunion or my first time meeting Elijah.

[B]

Yeah, I actually have a clip of the first time of you meeting Elijah, so I will post that somewhere.

[A]

Yeah, I think it was. It was really cool for me because you clearly love him and you are clearly happy. I felt the breeze of the eye roll from here.

[B]

You don't have to, like, exploit me in front of everyone about it.

[A]

Well, I do, because I'm proud of you for, like, allowing yourself to find happiness. Not a lot of people.

[B]

No, I know. I'm just. I'm. I'm giving you a hard time because it feels to me, I think, that in the past, where I would get, like, very cold and defensive surrounding anything involving a relationship, it feels like when I commit to someone in a real way, it feels like I'm giving up my independence and autonomy, and it feels like I'm giving up my power. And I don't know why I see it that way. And so, like, actually admitting publicly that I love him is. Has been difficult for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's like, I'm giving, and he doesn't make me feel that way, but, like, I feel like I'm giving up something.

[A]

Yeah, I. I don't think it looks like you're giving up anything, which is also important to recognize. You just have some walls that have come down, and it's really beautiful to say what I like. I was sitting there watching you guys, and you guys were, like, holding hands and being cute. And I was like, kel's happy. This is. This is nice.

[B]

He is probably one of the only people, one of two of the only people that I have been with that are. Oh, let me not discredit the other. Like, one of the very few people I've been with that are an equal partner in a way that is. We don't have gender roles. We. Yeah. In all aspects of this household is, like, we a united front. Like, there has been times where some of the kids will come up to me and be like, oh, can I have this? And then I look to Elijah first, because I'm thinking, okay, like, we have to be on the same page. Did he already say no? How did, like, we so and so. And then, like, even just, like, household chores are, like, trying to do certain things, it just feels very equal. And I think that that is part of the reason why I feel like I have let some of my control go, because he.

[A]

He's also a good person. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, like, 100 through.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, robbing the cradle a little bit, but.

[A]

Yeah. But military people have, like, what, five, ten years added on fast. Yeah. But I also was happy because I wanted to make sure me coming back into the picture. I didn't want to come into another situation that there was any type of friction between me and the person that you were. I didn't. Like, I didn't think that we wouldn't have gotten along, because obviously, we've said before, I can get along with a lot of people, but I wanted to make sure there was, like, a respect between us and just some sort of happiness. And I feel like I got that. Like, I feel like we kind of. We, like, hit it off. And, like, I've. I would hang out with him outside.

[B]

Of you, and I hope you do.

[A]

Yeah. Like, he barged into your office. You weren't home. I've been here all day. Kale hasn't been.

[B]

Did he know you were in here?

[A]

He did know I was here.

[B]

Oh, he did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, he knew I was here, and he, like. And, like, he just smiled at me, and I got up and, like, and gave him a hug because I was happy to see him.

[B]

Well, so I made the mistake of I, like, told him you were coming, but then we had a change of plans and, like, when we were gonna record and everything like, that. I, like, didn't tell him until last night. He was so upset about not being able to clean this office before you came in here, and he's like, you're telling me this Last minute. And I'm like, Like, I promise you, she does not give a. Oh, I don't care.

[A]

I'm, like, the low maintenance friend.

[B]

Yeah. No, I. I don't think that there is any friction. And then you also love his cousin, which is his best friend's wife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who live in his house right up the road. Not up the road, up the driveway. Yeah. And so. And I loved that you got to, like, hang out with them. They're really great people.

[A]

Yeah, it was great. And. And obviously I came too late at night to see the babies at first, which I feel like, worked out better because I was able to give attention to the older kids, and it was really cute to see that. I. I don't know why I questioned if they would remember me or not. I knew eyes. I. I was worried Isaac wouldn't be. But then why wouldn't he?

[B]

That Isaac wouldn't remember you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is so weird because he's the oldest.

[A]

I know. I. I definitely just assumed the two other ones didn't remember me, but.

[B]

Which is weird because Lux, I think, warmed up to, like, he wanted you to pick him up from school today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, was quick reminder, I think, also because we had. Lux loves to watch his YouTube videos. And you're in the birthday one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think that's why, because he frequently went back to that. And so I think he knows you from that. Like, he never.

[A]

Which is cute. And even Lincoln, like, I feel like we also connected right away again. When I saw him, obviously, everyone to everyone went to bed, and me and Isaac stayed up for, like, hours that night hanging out. And it was just.

[B]

I think y' all were up till, like, 3:00am I was, like, going to bed.

[A]

We were, like, watching. It was just. It was just really nice to be around him and to feel. To know that he was safe. I guess. I don't know. Just because I. Like, I've obviously always cared for him and loved him as a person, and he's always held a special place in my heart. So getting that time with him was really special. And obviously, we're gonna get more time in the future. But it was cool. Yeah, it was nice.

[B]

And then the babies the next day warmed right up to you. Except for Rio, but Valley doesn't with anyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like. Like, Twiz can't hold her, I don't think. I think Cam is hit or miss. Like, people cannot hold Valley. So when she warmed right up to.

[A]

You, I was like, oh, yeah, she knows.

[B]

She knows. But versus my little love Bug, I.

[A]

Will say it was. I was texting Leah about that morning and that. That morning was. Was really special to me because I.

[B]

Because I don't know what you're gonna say, but that's so. Okay. So from fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help being human. And that's what the Life Kit podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments with confidence and clarity. This is something I've needed over the last few years because sometimes things are great and sometimes I have to make a ton of decisions that I'm not super comfortable making. I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness. They also have actionable guidance I can use. No fluff, no judgment, trusted voices, and expert advice to help take me to the next step, no matter how big or small. And you get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting, and your career. And then walk away with a game plan that you can actually implement right away. Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live better. Starting now. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr.

[A]

I woke up, I slept on their couch and I woke up to. It was like one child after another coming down and you fact that I.

[B]

Have so many kids that you can.

[A]

Say that and they were all here but you were sitting on the couch and each time another child came down, the first thing they did was come and love you. And like every single one and all like they laid with you, they talked to you, they like want, they wanted your attention and it was just so, so beautiful to see. I. I texted Lee. I was like I can't wait to have this with you. You know what I mean? Stop. Yeah. And so it made my eyes are watering. I feel like I got dust.

[B]

It's cat hair.

[A]

It made me really happy again to see you in a place of happiness.

[B]

And.

[A]

Obviously I've always respected you as a mom and as a mother and it was just a reminder of that because your kids love you so much.

[B]

Don't, because I'll start crying. But especially after the emotional day that I've had today, it's like everything being called into question and it's just like, like I feel secure in my relationship with my kids. Yeah, so I like, I know that, but also when people recognize the relationship that I have with my kids, both. Both as a whole, but like, also independently is something that, you know, I really value a lot. So when you. When you say things like that just like, makes me feel.

[A]

Yeah, they literally, like, even today, they come up to you, they want. They look at you looking for attention, and you give them your attention and then they go on their way. I don't see that. I guess I'm not around that age, kids, but I don't know it. There's just something about it. You could tell how much they love you.

[B]

And I love them and you.

[A]

And that's the thing. Like every. Every child that came down, you showed excitement to see them and you were. And the babies and. And everyone. I was just like, this is like, I want this life.

[B]

When we were in Louisiana and the remote engineer that came out to record, like, film that episode when you. I don't know if I think Alessandro might have been in the room. I know you weren't. And I think it was around the time we were eating and he was like, do you ever feel guilty because you leave your kids so much? And I was like, yeah, that's like. It eats me alive. Do you know that when I hit the ground in Philadelphia after that New Orleans trip, I. There was no stopping the tears that. And nobody. I was still on the plane and I'm sobbing because I'm like, I want to be with my kids so bad. And like, it's so funny. And I was thinking about it this morning, like, 20 minutes with, you know, within 20 minutes of waking up in the morning, they could piss me off and get under my skin. But, like, I would go through that, like, being irritated and like, what is it called? Over stimulated, you know, 10 times over, just to be with them. Like, I will. I don't care. You know what I mean? But this, the, the. And I couldn't stop crying. It was like those ones that just keep flowing and flowing and you're not even trying to. But I don't know. And I think I cannot wait for you to experience that with Leah, especially because you love Leah so much. And I. There has to be something. Like, I'm not saying that people who are single moms or that aren't with the parent, the other parent are not. They don't love their kids. But I think that there is just something so special about raising a child with the person that you are absolutely the in love with, raising a family or raising your kids. Or even dogs, animals, whatever. There's just something so special about it, and I just am looking forward to that for you because I see your relationship with Leah and, you know, I see how much love there is there, and I just know that you guys are gonna have the best. The best time.

[A]

The best time. We. We were just talking about this the other day. We were sitting on the couch, and I looked over at her and I was like, how lucky are we that we get to raise a child? And we are. We're gonna embarrass them so much because we love each other so much.

[B]

Oh, ask my kids. And they will tell you, like, because we just grab each other's butts. And I'm like, chris's little face. And my kids are like, oh, wait, are you singers? Yeah, we sing everything. I'll be like, you're getting on my nerves. And then we just. I have to go poop. And, like, everything is a song, so. And my kids. It's so funny. Link. We came home from Lincoln's game on Wednesday. He had a soccer game. Someone that we know at the soccer games, she's like, a crazy person. Like, she's like, like, like truly unhinged. And he goes, I thought you were crazy. But she's crazier. But I'm like, this is us. Like, we're. We're just a crazy bunch. But, yeah, we sing. But they're. It's normal for them to hear us sing.

[A]

We sing. We. We have songs that we sing to our animals.

[B]

And do you want to run one down for us? Like, what kind of songs do you sing to your.

[A]

I don't ever know if there's like, we'll be like, oh, Steve or Beaver. Her dog's name is Stevie.

[B]

You're like, steve or Beaver.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I love that. My kids don't do it, though.

[A]

I love Leroni. Leah's. So do you think I think I'm weird because of Leah? I was ne. I was. I was always a weird person. And. But Leah is so weird.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Like, still, she'll have these weird fits, and she'll, like, start walking around like a dinosaur, Making noises and singing. I truly believe that Leah can sing. Like, and she just never will take it seriously. And if you start listening too much to her, she'll stop. But. But she s. Then she'll like. She does weird things. Like, I don't know.

[B]

Oh, I'm much like Leah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Elijah is so normal now because of her. Right? Like, you wouldn't do that on your own. Do you think Trisha Paytas would put us, like, as a feature on her new album?

[A]

Me or you and l like all of us. I'm not just. I'm tone deaf.

[B]

Yeah, I know, but we could autotune.

[A]

Yeah, I'm down. Ster. Beaver.

[B]

That's the name of the episode. Stever Beaver with Becky and Kale. Yeah, Steve Beaver. I don't really have much to say here outside of. I'm pretty sure that Elijah thinks that I'm the weirdest person he's ever met. Let me ask him. Let me call him. In here. Steve. Hello. Can you come in here really fast? Okay. Watch me say Steve or Beaver. I don't think he'll react. He's not gonna react at all.

[A]

There he is.

[B]

Steve or beaver? Babe, on a scale of 1 to 10, how weird would you say that I am? Let's go 1 to 10. Like, 1 being the least weird, 10 being the most weird. Who do you think's weirder? Mirror. You. Yeah, same. I didn't really think about that.

[A]

Now you're probably like, a four.

[B]

Oh, you shocked the hell out of me. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say that I'm the weirdest person you've ever met because I always sing things and I do this to you and I just swipe my finger up your butt.

[A]

I mean, you had to throw that part on you.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Okay then. Okay, that's fine.

[A]

You're in the clear.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I'd give Leah a seven. So she's so weird in the cutest way. But she's not weird around everyone, right?

[B]

Like, you have. That's, like, a certain level of intimacy before you can get weird.

[A]

I would say there's probably a handful of my friends that have seen Leo weird. Her friends probably have seen her weird.

[B]

But seeing someone weird, that is so funny to me. Me.

[A]

You're the best.

[B]

You are.

[A]

Thanks for loving my friend.

[B]

How much do you love me on a scale of 1 to 10?

[A]

Oh, he said I can't fit. On a scale.

[B]

Why did Tyler Baltiera just text me and say, serious question. What is book talk and what does it mean?

[A]

Oh, great transition.

[B]

Why?

[A]

What book are you reading right now?

[B]

I'm still reading. None left to tell. But I just got an art copy of the crash by Frida McFadden. My pants. I literally saw it. I was like. Because it doesn't come out until next month. Oh, I know what book you're reading. So what book are you reading? Tell the people what book you're reading.

[A]

I have just started the Red Rising series.

[B]

Oh, it's a series?

[A]

Yeah. I think there's eight books in it.

[B]

Oh, you know what book I we should start the Addicted series or Magnolia Parks.

[A]

I have something to say real quick. I posted on my Instagram that I was starting the Red Rising series and every single person that has ever read that book. Y' all are freaking fake for not warning me about how sad it is the first three chapters. I was crying on the plane in the first three chapters.

[B]

Like in front of people.

[A]

No, I. I was hiding in my seat like that. I. If I was home, I would have been hysterical crying. I was so freaking sad first. And it was really hard to get into the first three chapters too, because there was a lot of names, a lot of clans, a lot of all this. And it was like I wasn't picking up or following along. And then all of a sudden it hit me. Now I'm hooked.

[B]

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[A]

I know that. I know that. No men. Not many men listen probably to this podcast. There's probably a handful.

[B]

Shout out our man Ryan. We love Ryan. We'll show you.

[A]

Ryan listens to this.

[B]

So Ryan squared. We love that.

[A]

I would encourage you. I know that it'll be so hard to get your man to read. Read any. You should try to get to read 4th Wing together. If you've never read 4th Wing and you're listening it to this, try to get your man to read it too.

[B]

For the smut.

[A]

Yeah. There's just something about it.

[B]

Give us a. Give us an idea. Because we're thinking it's Shrek fantasy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'm thinking these are cartoon characters.

[A]

North Wing is an X rated Harry Potter. They don't have, like, it's their character. They're literally like, if Harry Potter and Hermione hooked up. You know that's not true.

[B]

There. It's.

[A]

There's so much sexual tension between the characters. And then, like, they don't give you it for so long, and then finally they do, and it's six pages long. I'm just like.

[B]

It's. It's. I'm not a smut girly. I never.

[A]

I can't even read, though.

[B]

I cannot even read humans.

[A]

I. Yeah, but there's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

There's something about it that if you.

[B]

Want smut and you're looking for real people. Archer's voice.

[A]

No, that's not what men want.

[B]

So it's Harry Potter on crack.

[A]

It's like Hunger Games. Harry Potter because it's based on a dragon College.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I'm thinking Avatar.

[A]

That's not.

[B]

You have. It's fantasy. Right? Like, but I'm not hating it either. Like, I'm not hating on it. I will give it a try.

[A]

You need to read Fourth Wing.

[B]

I will give it a try. I don't know when I'm gonna get to it because I have a Santa scroll.

[A]

You and Elijah should read Fourth Wing together and on our Kindles. Yeah. And see what happens.

[B]

Is it on Kindle Unlimited?

[A]

I would love to get a report back if you and Elijah read Fourth Wing together.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes. Deal. Actually, you could tell Elijah and he will probably start it like, tomorrow.

[A]

Have you. You seen any of the Brianna chicken Fry and Grace o'? Malley?

[B]

Who the is Grace o'? Malley?

[A]

The one that was dating Zach. Brian.

[B]

No, I know who Chicken Fry is.

[A]

Grace is her best friend. Who. Who. They had a pot.

[B]

They had one together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And during Brianna's relationship with Zach, it. And it like, put a strain on the relationship between. Between Brianna and Grace. And then there's just recently had been a blowout out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they stopped the podcast. All then, like, everyone is picking sides. There's. It. There's a lot of. It would be really hard to give a synopsis of the whole situation, but, like, Brianna was speaking towards something that happened to Grace. Like trauma that happened to her.

[B]

On their podcast.

[A]

Yeah. On their podcast, people thought Brianna was speaking insensitively towards the situation. In my mind, it was her projecting her own things that happened to her anyway. And then the Internet went crazy hating on Brianna. And now Brianna is opening up about her and Grace's relationship and people are pissed that she's opening up about it and xyz. So there's a lot going on with them and there's a lot of hate on the Internet going around both ways. Brianna thought that Grace should have stood up for her.

[B]

For what?

[A]

For the Internet talk. Like just slamming her for the way that she reacted. And if Grace didn't feel that way, like standing up for. They're childhood best friends.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Let me just backtrack. Banna Chicken Fry. Grace are childhood best friends. Start a podcast.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

They're doing a podcast episode together.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Bana is being insensitive towards Grace.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About something that happened to Grace.

[A]

Yes. That's the way the Internet. Yes. Is portraying this.

[B]

There is a blowup over this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Bana is now upset that Grace did not defend her to the trolls. And everything that people are saying online.

[A]

That happened a while ago, but that's resurfacing because Brianna and Zach Brian just broke up and Grace and Brianna had a issue because of the Brianna being in a toxic relationship with Zach Bryan.

[B]

Oh, this sounds oddly familiar.

[A]

Yeah. So I've just been reading. I've just been seeing people hate and pick sides and saying, this person was right, this person was wrong. I just want to throw my two cents into it. Obviously, I don't know them as people, but I truly believe they're both wrong in their own. In their own ways, because I know that I've been a person in a toxic relationship. That's Hurt my best, like, best friends from that relationship, shutting people out, making them feel less than what they are, which was wrong in the first place. But then the situation of the Internet completely shaming some, like your best friend and you not standing up for them, something that you kind of can relate to, is also wrong to me. I think the whole situation of them, there's just so much outside their best friends, like childhood best friends, and I think that they're both in a situation that we were in of a lot of outside drama.

[B]

Fueling.

[A]

Fueling their. Like this person was telling them this, this person was telling them that. And now Brianna just did a podcast saying that she basically gave Grace everything that she had, which is starting a whole new feud.

[B]

But is it true?

[A]

True to an extent. To an. Yeah, to an extent.

[B]

Was Grace already in the public eye? No.

[A]

It's very relative to your life and situations. So we're. We'll have to come back once you learn a little bit more on this. But I just. I think that they're both wrong. I think that they both went through traumatics things. I don't think they should have talked about their friendship at all publicly because it. That is going to hurt them in the long, long run. If either of us talked about our fallout publicly, we wouldn't be friends again. Right.

[B]

I think that. What. And this goes across the board for any public figure or celebrity or somebody that has a lot of. I don't. Popularity, I guess just like any sort of social status. I don't really know what I'm trying to say. A following. We'll say that when you add that element to any friendship fallout, any fallout whatsoever. There is so many. That one detail adds so many layers. Oh, come on.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Is that.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Deadpool.

[B]

It's Deadpool. He's in the building right now.

[A]

Hey, Biggie.

[B]

Just silently open the door. So slow. You look good. Can you close the door, though, babe?

[A]

Bye, sweetie. We're almost done.

[B]

No words he did say, but I just wish you saw.

[A]

He just slowly open the door and I could see it from the corner of my eye.

[B]

No, because he does it with. He's sleeping. Like he sleepwalks. No. It's so terrifying. So that one little detail of having any amount of following, whether it's 50,000 followers or 500,000 followers, that small detail changes everything and adds so many layers. And truly, it's trauma.

[A]

Yeah. I feel. I. I just see it's filling up my tik Tok and I see both sides and I feel so bad for them because you know that they love and care about each other as human beings. And I know what A, toxic relationships do to people, and B, fame does to people and people around them. And so they're just both in this bubble of just being bounced back and forth and being thrown against each other and seeing all these people, like, pin them against each other. And at the end of the day, they're both right and they're both wrong. Like, they're both hurt for valid reasons. And there was hate thrown around because of that hurt, which we as humans go through all the time. It's just not a public thing. And now it's just like this huge public blowout between two friends that are gonna have a hard time healing, which makes me really sad because they, like, they were best friends. Like, they just, it, it makes me sad to see, and it makes me sad to see people pin, pin so much hate towards one singular person and not understanding all perspective, perspectives. Yeah.

[B]

You said something that is something that I stand by, and I, when I say stand by it, I stand 10 toes down on it. Is that you, you and I never talked about our falling out publicly. And that is part of the reason why I was able to move forward with you and be friends with you. Because you never did that to me once. That level, that little veil or like that little layer of trust like that. Because. Right. Like, unfortunately, and fortunately, my personal life is how I provide for my family. So the second that you try to penetrate that and me, basically, I will never look back. So the amount of people who I think we could have worked it out, like the, the fallouts that I've had, we could have worked. Like, I could have worked out so many of them, but they went public about it. I will never look at you the same.

[A]

Yeah, right. When I saw them publicly start talking about it, you were like, oh.

[B]

I was like, she's never coming back.

[A]

I feel like they're not coming back from this.

[B]

And they've reached out.

[A]

What?

[B]

Almost all of them have reached out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You went public. I will never, I literally will never talk to you again.

[A]

I'm sure now that we've talked about. Your phone is listening to you, so it'll pop up on your tick tock.

[B]

Yeah, I haven't seen any of that.

[A]

When you're in it. I, I, and maybe it's just because I relate to both sides. Like, I've been a person that have, has been left, left as a friend because of a toxic relationship. And I've also been the Person that has cut out people because of a toxic relationship. So I just know the fuel and pain and, like, hatred you have for yourself for doing that. The hatred you have for so many people. So I just feel. And they're young, too, and they're both trying to have their careers and things like that, but I just think people need to back. Back off them and just let you know. But they won't, because now.

[B]

Well, and it's also, unfortunately, entertainment. Right. Like, unfortunately for sure. When something like that. Even smaller. On a smaller scale, it's like, that is entertainment to other people. So they will never let it. Let that go. Like, they're not gonna. They're not gonna leave them alone, unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah, But I did want to bring that up. Yeah, I'm sure people will.

[B]

I honestly, like, I hate to say it, but, like, just so I have an idea, like, I hope it does start coming up on my phone just so I can understand what. Yeah. Like, what you're talking about. Because I didn't know who Zach Bryan was until Lindsay told me. I was like. I don't know. Like, even. She even, like, played a song, and I was like, I have no idea. Person is. I didn't know who Brianna Chicken Fry was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just.

[A]

I know from following Barstool.

[B]

Yeah. And then I was talking to Alessandra, and she was explaining to me how barstool works, and basically, like, you know, how they. Was it. Was it you that told me, like, when things are, like, when people are pitted against each other, they, like, form shows out of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is, like, up. But also genius is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's like, friend could have been. That's. I know that wasn't Barstool, but it could have been.

[A]

Did you see. Wow, this is all over the place. But did you see Ethan's response to her being on snl?

[B]

No.

[A]

So there was a clip that was going around of Ethan and Trisha when they were on Frenemies, and her saying she was. She wanted to be on snl. And he said that I would cut my arm off if you ever made it to SNL now. And so that clip is surfacing now that she's been on it. And he was really respectful. He was like this, you know, we're not giving her her flowers. She deserves it. Let's stop talking about what I said and focus on the fact that she did an incredible job on snl and then was like, can we. Can we order, like, a fake arm and bedazzle it and send it to her? Like, as. Like giving her.

[B]

Her. Her flowers.

[A]

Her flowers of it.

[B]

Hey, man, do you have anything you want to say in the mic? What are you reading right now? All right, Lincoln, what are you reading right now?

[A]

Diary of a Wimpy Kid.

[B]

Is that your favorite book series? Yeah. How many. How many Diary of a Wimpy Kid books have you read?

[A]

Probably like.

[B]

14 of 19, I think, or like, 12, period. We love that.

[A]

Are you gonna ask him about how happy he is, is that I'm back in your life?

[B]

How happy are you that back. That Becky is back in our lives? You just here, like, two weeks ago. She was just here, like, two weeks ago. I love that we have a spectator in this building, in the producer. Okay, so this came from someone who was messaging me about something else, and then she said, on a much more positive note, I've connected with some. I've connected with a few mamas from the Baby Mama, Karma and Chaos page who lost their babies, just like me. Me. One of them was one who wrote in and that you and Becky read her story. We've connected, and I'm helping her the best I can navigate through it. I know on that podcast you talked about feeling like it's hard to have time for. For everything and friendships, but because of your podcast, you're creating friendships from list from your listeners to listeners. Just know that you guys are making a difference, even when it seems overwhelming at times. And I know that that's not, like, a super deep story, but, like, it sort of is, right? Like. Like, we're helping people connect because they have similar stories or trauma or grief or friendship fallouts or friendships that they're making. And I just. I think that that's the community that I want to build with this podcast specifically. Not that we don't have that with, you know, coffee combos or anything. I just think that that audience is a little bit different and they can connect differently than this one. This one is, like, I hope this is less surface level and more like deeper connections.

[A]

Absolutely. I think I baseline just because of conversations I like to have and. And bring out other people, too, that it'll naturally flow in that direction. I hold some guilt around not answering people, but my dms, ever since, obviously, I came back and have started this podcast, are flooded with people, and I. I enjoy reading them. I just don't have the capacity to give myself to every single person because a lot of the time, the messages that are coming through are in relation to grief, to ivf, to xyz, and they're freaking Beautiful. And I value and appreciate every single message that comes through. I just. I can't. Once I start, if. If I start. Start answering every single one, I'm never going to be able to stop. And I have to find that boundary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when I go into the Facebook group, I enjoy that because I'm able to respond and not feel like I have to continue to respond. And so I really love being in that Facebook group and going in and seeing people connect and seeing people relate and seeing people be there for one another and me be able to just chime in and be like, wow, wow, love this.

[B]

But also, just either way, whether it be DMS or Facebook, like, going in and being able to read it, because even though we might not respond, like, it still matters to us, it still means a lot to us. And we just hope that you guys can feel a sense of community within this podcast. So even if you don't relate to something like, you know, I. I can't relate to someone close to me passing away, you know, but I still relate to, you know, your grief journey in some way. And I hope that you can find. Find, you know, a common ground with other people in the Facebook group. And I know that there were a lot of people that were hesitant to give us a chance, but there, they have messaged us and said that they were glad that they did. So even if we don't respond, we do see so many messages from you guys. So many comments. Like, we see them, we value them, we love them, and, you know, it's just that we can't respond to every single person for sure. So if you guys want to run into us to potentially have your story shared or any comments, questions that you guys have, topics of conversation that you want us to talk about on here, you guys can write into us atinfo karma chaos podcast.com and we will get to as many as we can. Hopefully over you know, the next several weeks, we will be able to touch on one or two per episode.

[A]

Yeah. And we re. We read them and. And get sent them too. So even if we don't bring them up, your story is being heard. And again, if it's not responded to, just know that we value every single message that comes our way.

[B]

Absolutely. And if you guys want to watch the full episode, you guys can go over to patreon.com Kale Lowry that's full free. Also listen to for the Haters, which is on Apple and Spotify.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And those are season one and season two are up. And so we are hoping that 2025 brings a new season for the haters.

[A]

So yeah, I'm excited about that.

[B]

Yes. Also, don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter to keep up with us in real time and any events coming up. Also, there will be an events tab for 2025 for four days coming so klo.com and we'll see you guys later. Happy holidays. See ya. With all the best movies but longer.

[A]

Days are brutal so we start feeling frugal.

[B]

TV stream Pluto TV streaming Pluto TV.

[A]

For free stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street Ted, the Expendables and so much more on Pluto TV stream now pay never. Hi, I'm Lauren.

[B]

And I'm Chandler and we're the hosts.

[A]

Of Pop Apologist Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives.

[B]

Real Housewives, drama, and anything and everything.

[A]

Taylor Swift.

[B]

We're two sisters who make no apologies.

[A]

For our love of pop culture and the fact that a listers might mean.

[B]

More to us than each other.

[A]

Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for pop Apologists.

[B]

Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.