ENCORE: The DDC (Dead Dads Club)

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Episode: ENCORE: The DDC (Dead Dads Club)

Release Date: November 25, 2025
Hosts: Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

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Episode Overview

This episode marks a heartfelt and candid return as Kail and Becky rekindle not only their friendship but introduce the new direction of their podcast, "Karma & Chaos." With a focus on honest conversations around loss, friendship, family, personal growth, and modern adulthood, they share memories, discuss grief, rekindling relationships, and set the tone for the evolving themes of the show. Both are unfiltered and vulnerable as they swap stories and philosophical takes on karma, chaos, and the messiness of being human in your 30s.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rekindling Their Friendship & Life Updates

[03:30–06:40]

• Becky shares how her father’s passing was the catalyst for reconciling with Kail after a five-year fallout.
• The reconnection was facilitated through mutual friends and social media, leading to an honest conversation and a “fresh start.”
• Becky’s update: married to Leah ("an angel," ER PA), living her best life, deepening self-awareness and appreciation for friendship’s evolution.
• Both express excitement about being “the best versions of themselves” now.
• Kail, broadcasting from Disney’s Animal Kingdom Lodge, reminisces about past adventures with Becky and highlights how much they've changed.

Quote:

"We are able to give our best versions of ourselves to each other, when a lot of the time in the past it was kind of our worst versions of ourselves." — Becky, [05:22]

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2. Owning Up to the Past, Transparency & Healing

[06:40–10:47]

• Kail describes reaching out to Becky with empathy and nervousness, unsure what was appropriate after their fallout.
• Becky admits she’d “talked her shit” about Kail to others and wanted to clear the air up-front.
• Both discuss the importance of self-reflection, growth, and honesty in mending broken bonds.
• The fallout was attributed to being “bad versions” of themselves, not malice.

Quote:

"There was never a time that I didn’t think about you... the way that we fell out was not anybody’s fault." — Kail, [07:26]

Quote:

"Yeah, I was like, I talked my shit. And I don’t want that to come back and haunt me." — Becky, [10:47]

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3. On Rekindling Friendships & Growth

[12:40–14:02]

• Both hope their reconciliation can inspire others to reach out to lost friends and embrace healing, even if there are no expectations.
• Emphasis on allowing others and oneself to grow and reconnect without pressure.

Quote:

"...maybe just an awakening for everybody who wants to rekindle a friendship with someone. Like it is possible." — Kail, [12:49]

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4. Addressing Public Perceptions & Relationship Boundaries

[14:02–18:33]

• Addressing rumors and parasocial speculation about their chemistry and respective partners.
• Clarify that their dynamic is platonic and playful, never disrespectful.
• Funny DMs and internet speculation about their relationship dynamics are discussed.

Quote:

"There’s just something about it that I’m like, oh, ok. I love this for y’all. Taking notes." — Kail, about Becky and Leah’s relationship, [18:22]

Quote:

"We say all this to say that Becky and I are not cheating on our partners. Our partners are very aware of the dynamic..." — Kail, [16:41]

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5. Podcast Origins & the Meaning of ‘Karma & Chaos’

[19:12–22:17]

• The original podcast was to be "Chaos After Dark," focused on taboo topics.
• The show’s branding was rushed due to unforeseen contractual obligations; “Karma & Chaos” was Becky’s idea.
• Becky explains karma as the desire to spread and attract good, while Kail represents chaos.

Quote:

"I’ve been chasing good karma my entire life... The universe gives back what we put to it." — Becky, [21:16]

Quote:

"Can we just go change the entire Wikipedia page of chaos and just put all of my stuff?" — Kail, [22:17]

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6. Navigating Grief, Loss & Community Change

[23:20–29:21]

• Becky shares losing her father after eight years of anticipatory grief (he had primary progressive aphasia).
• She also discusses losing her best friend in 2016 (overdose) and how that shifted her perspective on living for others.
• Both discuss the grieving process for both people who have died and those still alive—friendships, estranged family.
• Becky acknowledges that listeners might “mourn the loss of the old show” and validates those feelings.

Quote:

"Pain is so universal... It’s a shame we’re taught that we have to hold things in." — Becky, [24:38]

Quote:

"Grief brings up untouched feelings you just don’t know are there." — Becky, [29:58]

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7. Understanding Family Dynamics & Generational Differences

[38:00–44:31]

• Becky’s childhood: the youngest of five, never had an “adult conversation” with her father, yet felt deeply loved.
• She points out the emotional limitations of the baby boomer generation and sees her parents’ capacity (or lack thereof) for emotional expression as largely generational.
• Kail probes differences in parental love, attention, and the sibling dynamic.

Quote:

"There was always someone that had the most love for sure... we were different humans and our parents just got along better with certain personalities." — Becky, [40:37–41:05]

Quote:

"That baby boomer generation has an inability emotionally to love children as much as, say, our generation." — Becky, [42:21]

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8. Reality TV, Authenticity, and Shared Memories

[47:21–55:16]

• Becky recalls being involved in Kail’s MTV “Teen Mom” journey and other TV projects—not as a paid friend, but for the experience.
• Both reminisce on the surrealness and the ups and downs of filming reality TV in their 20s.
• Becky reflects on watching old clips ("the pencil-thin eyebrows era") and considers doing rewatch commentaries for Patreon.

Quote:

"How many people were filming a TV show in their 20s? ...It was such a weird and cool time." — Kail, [50:39]

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9. Audience Engagement & Looking Forward

[55:16–56:47]

• They encourage listeners to share their own stories about grief, friendship, and relationships, and suggest future show topics by email.
• Both are vulnerable about the show’s current “work in progress” state but optimistic for growth and deep dives to come.

Quote:

"Stick with us. Give us a chance. Don’t go anywhere yet, because this episode we know is all over the place. But... we’ll have a really good show." — Kail, [56:09]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On rekindling:

  "It was a pretty beautiful thing how our relationship kind of came back together. Kail reached out after my dad passed away...that validated those feelings for me." — Becky, [04:05]

• On public perception:

  "We’re not cheating on our partners...Becky and I have never been in love. Becky and I have never even had a crush on each other." — Kail, [16:37]

• On generational love:

  “I think that’s a generational thing...that baby boomer generation has an inability emotionally to love children as much as, say, our generation.” — Becky, [42:21]

• On grief and loss:

  "Grief is just crazy...I’ve been mourning my Dad’s death for eight years. He was diagnosed in, ironically, 2016." — Becky, [29:58]

• On the podcast’s mission:

  “We want to change direction; we want to love, we want to show emotions, we want to overly care for… they just put forth what they knew.” — Becky, [44:31]

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Important Timestamps

• Reunion and context: [03:30–06:40]
• Owning up, transparency: [06:40–10:47]
• Inspiration for reconnection: [12:40–14:02]
• Addressing rumors and boundaries: [14:02–18:33]
• Show naming and philosophy: [19:12–22:17]
• Navigating grief and transitions: [23:20–29:21]
• Generational parenting, family: [38:00–44:31]
• Reality TV memories: [47:21–55:16]
• Listener participation prompt: [55:16–56:47]

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Tone & Takeaways

Warm, unfiltered, and self-aware, this episode is a blend of humor, vulnerability, and genuine attempts to break down taboos around grief, loss, and changing relationships. Kail and Becky balance insights with playful banter, highlighting the power of growth, honesty, and the messy beauty of friendships—old, lost, and renewed. Their hope is to guide listeners through the karma and chaos of life, together.

To submit your stories or request episode topics:
Email [e-mail]
Follow @KarmaChaosPod on TikTok and Becky at @hayer25 on social platforms.

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Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Becky]

Guys, we have a surprise for you. We are doing a Black Friday sale on all our karma and chaos merch. You can get them [e-mail] with code KCBF25. Go get your merch.

[Kael]

You'll want to get the blanket. The blanket is a staple. We love her. She's plaid. She has a karmaroo design. We love it. And like Becky said, use code [e-mail]. The first episode of karma and Chaos. Actually, it's not, but we're re recording this episode for y' all because we don't know what the we're doing.

[Becky]

We do know what we're doing. We just needed to do it a little bit better and we, we needed to make sure that we just came in as clear headed as possible with all the answers and how we should be doing this for, for right now. Right? Going to grow. It's going to change. But hey everyone, welcome. First episode.

[Kael]

Yes, I'm happy to have you here. You're happy to have me?

[Becky]

I am.

[Kael]

I'm coming at you from Animal Kingdom Lodge in Disney and I just want to tell you that the last time I was actually in Disney was with Becky.

[Becky]

We drank around the world.

[Kael]

Well, I didn't drink around the world. But you drank around the world.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kael]

So the last time I was in Disney was a cool 10 years ago. Not 10 years ago. It was about seven years ago. I was here for a half marathon and it was me, Bone and our friend Lindsay, a mutual friend named Lindsay and Becky came along for the ride. And so that was, that was a good time. That was 2018.

[Becky]

It was the best decision I made to not run the marathon or half marathon or whatever it was. And I laid by the pool while they did it. And they showed up disheveled, disheveled afterwards. And I was just cool, calm, relaxed, enjoying the sun.

[Kael]

I was not enjoying myself. I would. I actually would love to do another half marathon because I feel like I. I did run way more than I expected to in that one, and I would definitely do it again, but I would want to train for it. And I did just get a treadmill, so maybe I'll come back for a half marathon. Maybe not the Disney one. I don't know.

[Becky]

Can't commit.

[Kael]

I don't know.

[Becky]

Could be convinced.

[Kael]

Disney is not for me. Okay. Disney is not for me. I'm gonna do a video later on all the things that I've learned about Disney. But this is strictly for the kids, and I do coming back for at.

[Becky]

Least five years until my hopefully, future children already.

[Kael]

Yeah, well, your future children and my littles, like, we can plan a trip together because they'll be all around the same age that we could come to do stuff like this. All right, so before we even get further ahead of ourselves, we want to reintroduce to you, Becky. Right. Because you guys knew our friendship before you knew our friendship five years ago, and things are just a lot different now. I think that after our falling out and our rekindling of a friendship, we are two entirely different people. And let's update everybody on where you're at in life right now.

[Becky]

Yeah. And it was a pretty beautiful thing how our relationship kind of came back together. Kael reached out after my dad passed away, and that was a time of my life that I had a lot of emotions going on. I was obviously mo morning the loss of my father. I was mourning a lot of lost friendships in a weird way, because I didn't know if people were going to reach out to me. And I wanted. There were certain people in my mind that I wanted to reach out when my dad passed away. And I felt a little bit guilty about that, that I even had those feelings. And when Kale reached out, it kind of. It validated those feelings for me, which automatically just put me in this vulnerable place to begin with. And so because of that, I reached back out to Kael, obviously, and we struck up a conversation and had an open and honest conversation. And really, ever since that point, it kind of was like, the past five years or the past five years, and let's move forward with this friendship and start building. And so that was back in June. So we didn't just rekindle our friendship and jump right onto a microphone, but we still are figuring, figuring out this dynamic. And, yeah, I'm happy to be here. But a couple things about myself, I am still with the same person that I was with when I left. We got married this year. We've been together for eight and a half years. Leah is the best human in this entire world.

[Kael]

She's an angel.

[Becky]

She is an angel and maybe one day you guys will get to meet her. She's a little shy, so we'll see.

[Kael]

She's so funny and she's just like. She truly is a breath of fresh air. Like you guys will love Leah and no.

[Becky]

Leah is also a medical provider. She is a PA in the er. So we live very different lives. I work from my desk, I work from home for a really wonderful company and I really enjoy it. And so yeah, the past five years have been crazy. A lot of ups and downs of life. I've lost my father. I had issues, you know, with friends, as we all do. But really I am in the best place that I've ever been. And I think that's also why this friendship rekindling is just this beautiful thing because we're able to give our best versions of ourselves to each other when a lot of the time in the past it was kind of our worst versions of ourselves. And I'm excited, I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to share light to this world. And yeah, I want to go back.

[Kael]

A little bit to talk about are rekindling too. I was sitting in Taylor's salon chair. You guys know of Taylor from me posting about her. She is a mutual friend of Becky and myself and I just. Taylor is also just an angel on this earth. She's so funny. And so I was getting my hair done and she was actually the reason why. She's how I found out that Becky's dad passed away and Larry was such a good guy. So I. There was just something, I didn't know how to go about that reaching out because we did have such a big fallout that I just didn't know if I should be extra personal and reach out directly or if I should put it in the comments. I didn't know how to go about doing it and I didn't want it to be, you know, I didn't know. So I just commented because I was like, I didn't know if you even wanted to hear from me. So I was like, oh, I don't know if this would be like a smack in the face if I DMD you. I didn't know how to. I just didn't know what to do. And so I was in the salon chair and I commented and then when you messaged me directly. I was like, okay, this could be good. And I was really nervous. And, you know, obviously, Larry was such a good, like, a light in this world, and I didn't want to make it about something else. And so once we continued talking, I was like, okay, this is moving in the right direction. And so I was. I was feeling pretty good about it, but there was never. And I said this to you before. I've said it publicly before. Like, there was never a time that I didn't think about you. And I think that the way that we fell out was not anybody's fault. Like, it wasn't your fault, it wasn't my fault. It was just who we were at that time. And we. Not even. I don't even necessarily think that we needed to separate from each other. I think that we just, like, weren't good versions of ourselves. And I know that a lot of people were like, kale, can't keep a friend. But I think we're here to say that that's not necessarily the case in our fallout.

[Becky]

No. And we were just. We weren't. We were like the worst versions of ourselves at that point. Right. Yeah, we both. We both just had a lot of growing up to do, and as we cared and love. Loved each other so much, and we both knew that we just were surrounded by our own personal issues and then issues, you know, surrounding us when we were together. And we were young, you know, like, maybe not on age by a lot of people, but we were 25 years old or 20, whatever. Well, I guess, yeah, I was 25.

[Kael]

Around 25.

[Becky]

I was a little older. Yeah.

[Kael]

But you learn a lot in your 20s. And I just feel like, regardless of that, I was not surrounded by great people at that time. I also was just not making really good decisions. I had just went through 2019, the end of 2019, and I don't even know if I ever. I don't know if I told you what happened to me at the end of 2019, so that'll be a conversation for another day. But that night changed the entire trajectory of my life, in my opinion. So, yeah, I think that I was not in a good place at all. And so I think for us, it was just a learning experience, and we took a step back from each other. I don't think I ever hated you. I never was like, oh, I can't stand Becky. Or I hated her, but what really, really, really stuck out to me. And I. I hate that I keep bringing it up, but I do think there was A lot of strength in what you did. There was a lot of, like, I don't know, it was just so respectful to. Respectable to me was. I remember I was going to pick up Matt from the airport and I was like, hey, like, I won't have any kids. I'm going to head to the airport to pick my friend up. You know, I can. We can talk. So we got on the phone and Becky was like, I would hate to see us take a step in this positive direction of rekindling our friendship. And then people come out of the woodworks and, you know, say, oh, Becky this, or. Or she engaged in, you know, shitty conversations about you. And then we take a step back and it's like, why do we even become friends again? Becky admitted she was like, hey, like, I said things that were probably not great, and I just want you to hear it from me. And so I know that sounds crazy, but to me, how many people do you know admit to doing that?

[Becky]

Yeah, I was like, I talked my shit. And I don't want that to come back and haunt me.

[Kael]

No, and I respect that. Like, I feel like you could have been like, no, I never said anything about you. I just hated you. And we moved on and. But you didn't. You were like, hey, like, by the way. And you. You even told me who you said stuff to, which was even, like, I was like, oh, okay. And honestly, it wasn't. I wasn't even mad. I kind of laughed about it. Because when you have a friendship fallout, a lot of times people talk shit. But I will say you never went to the Internet. Aside from the Eyes on Live, I'll.

[Becky]

Never live that down. All right, I got a confession to make. I used to think that pajamas were just old T shirts or whatever clean leggings I could find, but now I've seen the light, and it is Skims. We've got a five month old at home, so sleep is rare and precious. And when it does happen, I want to be comfortable. The skim sleep set feels like I'm wearing a cloud. It's soft, it's breathable, and somehow makes me feel like I have my life together, even if I've got spit up on one shoulder.

[Kael]

I.

[Becky]

What I didn't expect is how much I'd want to wear these all day. Like, fully. The person doing at home virtual work in my pajamas now. No shame. And listen, if you're holiday shopping, Skims has sleepwear for literally everyone. Women, men, kids, even pets. You could knock out your whole list in one order. Shop your favorite [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in a survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday shop is now [e-mail].

[Kael]

But we're excited to bring you along on this journey and rekindling our friendship as new people. Really. And I hope that this is info to anyone who wants to reach out to a friend that they maybe had a falling out with or just grew apart from and wants to rekindle a friendship or become friends again. Like, hopefully this will be inspiration for you guys because, I mean, I. I can't speak for Becky, but I never stopped loving you for the entire time that we weren't friends. Like, I had to actively choose not to look at your Instagram to put me down into a spiral. But I hope that, you know, this is a. Maybe just an awakening for everybody who wants to rekindle a friendship with someone. Like it is possible.

[Becky]

Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn't have to have expectations either. You know, maybe it's just something that you need to say to someone to try to heal yourself, to get some sort of closure to a situation. But, you know, we grow as humans, and if you're not growing, you're not really living right. And so give yourself that chance to allow someone to come back into your life, to meet yourself again. And yeah, I'm. I'm excited. I'm excited because again, I've never. This is the best place in my life I've ever been. And I just really would love to bring you guys along with this journey as. As Kayla and I kind of come back together.

[Kael]

Yeah, no, I'm super, super excited. I think it's gonna be a good. A good time. And we can also address some of the things that you guys have thought about Becky and myself. First of all, our partners are. They're not. We're not cheating on them. We've never cheated on them.

[Becky]

No. And I always think it's funny because, you know, I'm obviously, I read the comments. I've read the comments of coming back into the limelight of your shadows. And people are concerned about our relationships, your relationship with Elijah, my. My relationship, being married. And it's just. It's really fun for. I don't want to say fun. It's fun for us because we know each other and we know our relationships. Five years ago, inside of Mine and Kale's relationship, it was. That was the nature of what people wanted. People wanted to see us in that light. People had the love to gossip about what we did and how we were, and we just kind of fed into that. And Absolutely. We just like aren't. We aren't those people anymore. And we. I don't want to say we aren't those people because we're always naturally just have that connection.

[Kael]

It's not. It's not this like deep romantic connection that you guys think it is. We played into it because that's what y' all wanted. Wanted, right?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kael]

And so I think that was. We just played into it. But we. And like we might play around, but it's never in a way that is disrespectful to our partners. Like, it's all just to be fun or funny. Like, it's never. Becky and I have never been in love. Becky and I have never even had a crush on each other. So we see your concerns and I got a really funny DM about this and so I wanted to read it to Becky. Kale, stop sign. This is an emergency. Please proceed with caution with Becky. And I thought this was going to go somewhere like something with like, this is me talking. Yeah.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kael]

You are doing two good in life right now to have your shit come and bite you in the ass. Becky might be good for you, but is it good for you and Hot Neighbor, meaning me and Alexa? The chemistry between you and Becky is too much. And it isn't respectful. It might be authentic, but it's not respectful. Boundaries. Boundaries. I don't care that she has a long term partner. I don't care that you are happy with Hot Neighbor. And I don't care that you have never actually been with her and that she's a lesbian. I can see it all over your face. Also, the constant touching is like, you guys can't help it. Physically touching, it looks okay, but it really isn't.

[Becky]

Is she following us around?

[Kael]

It's like, wow. I love that. I love the concern. It was true concern. I feel. Oh, but you don't have anything to worry about. We say all this to say that Becky and I are not cheating on our partners. Our partners are very aware of the dynamic of our relationship. And also, I just want to reiterate the fact that Becky and I have never been in love or had crushes on each other. So you guys don't have to worry. It's all truly an act. It's just the dynamic of a relationship. And Moving forward, even if we play around, we're not. It's not real.

[Becky]

Yeah. And I can't stress this enough. And as you all get to know me more, I am so madly in my life that it is a little bit disgusting.

[Kael]

No.

[Becky]

I'm obsessed with her.

[Kael]

They are. Let me just tell y' all something. I went to Becky's new. It's new to me. The house that they live in now, they lived in for a couple years, but obviously I missed a few chapters and I went over there. When I tell y', all, the obsession between the two of them is sickening. And it's truly something that I think is only in lesbians, honestly, because everything, every corner of their house is of each other. Like, I have never seen anything like it. And like, when they kiss each other goodbye, I was like, what is going on? Like, what is going on? And it's not one sided either. So I feel like in a lot of heterosexual couples, it's very. Like, one person is more in love with the other than the other one. This situation between Becky and Leah is. And, like, I felt weird because I was, like, watching them because I was like, what? And like, there's just something about it that I'm like, oh, okay. I love this for y' all taking notes. Yeah. No, truly. Truly taking notes.

[Becky]

Yeah. So do you guys have nothing to worry about? I'm excited. I really want you guys to get to know me outside of this idea that you already have. And I think that you'll learn more about me, obviously, as we talk and as we engage in different conversations about whether they're serious things, whether they're joking or happy or fun. I'm just excited to be here and I'm excited for the opportunity to even get to know people in this community. Right. Kale already has a community. I already know a lot of people from it. But I'm excited to be back here and I'm excited to learn and grow more and just kind of make an impact.

[Kael]

So if you guys remember, maybe some of you do, maybe some of you don't. We were supposed to do a podcast five years ago that was called Chaos After Dark. And I truly don't remember how Chaos became part of, like, my brand, like, my personal brand.

[Becky]

So you guys don't know how it became?

[Kael]

Well, I do, but I don't know where the name came from. Right. Like, Kale in the chaos. I want to say maybe, like, a fan wrote in and said it. Maybe it was Kristen. Kristen named a lot of my stuff. I will Give credit where credit is due. Like, I don't name any of the shit that I have except for my children. So even those came from Kristen. So, Caitlin, the chaos became part of my brand, and Becky and I were going to do this podcast that was, like, not safe for work, sort of. Sort of topics, a lot of taboo topics. And I do think that we could still touch on some of those things. Anything that we find interesting, I think that we could talk about with other people, but not necessarily our personal, intimate lives at the stages of life that we are in right now. I also want to say, if you guys can follow the bouncing ball here, Becky and I were not originally starting this podcast until 2025. So just to clarify that whole part of this entire thing, I was personally faced with contractual obligations that still needed to fulfilled, and so Becky and I basically jumped right into it. Instead of starting in 2025, we had to start in two weeks. So we had to quickly come up with the name for this podcast because we have to do our branding and everything else that we thought we had three months still to do. And so we were trying to name this podcast, and Becky really liked the name Good Karma, but I was like, you know what? People are not going to. They're not going to see it that way. And I know that the way that this podcast came about as soon as it did was not how we planned and was probably not expected by the general public. I was like, I just don't think good karma is going to be a good option for us. And I really like, you know, we were going to have chaos after dark. And so Becky came up with the name Karma and Chaos. So talk about the karma portion of it. Why that hits home for you.

[Becky]

Yeah, I. I think that there's always this instinctual thought that karma is bad, right? You're getting bad karma, karma comes to find you. But what. The way that I see it, I've been chasing good karma my entire life, or I wouldn't say my entire life. Everyone has their faults, everyone has had their downfalls, but I really try to give to the world that what I want to receive. And so this idea of karma is just something that is close to my heart because I think that the universe gives back what we put to it. And I really enjoy trying to just make sure I'm leaving behind and leaving in place, just at least a little sprinkle of good. And so that is why I liked karma. And kale is the definition of chaos.

[Kael]

So do you think they'll put my picture by that, by the definition in the dictionary?

[Becky]

No, but you could probably change it on Wikipedia.

[Kael]

You're like small wins. Kale, honestly, can we just go change the entire Wikipedia page of chaos and just put all of my stuff like I like? That would be iconic for sure. Going forward, I hope that people give myself as well as Becky a chance because I do think that there has been, I know there's been a lot of changes and growth in myself, but also in Becky too. And I hope that in this podcast you guys see that. And I hope that now that you understand that this was not a podcast to step on anyone's toes or to smack, you know, in these face. That's not what this was about at all. And so I hope that you guys, you know, understand that. And I know, I just want this to be like a positive space too, because you've dealt with a lot of grief and with, you know, your dad passing away and you saying that you sort of were grieving the loss of friendships, I feel like there's a way to talk about that and give people, give people a chance to find comfort in some of the things that we talk about. And I hope that we can give back to this community in that way.

[Becky]

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[Kael]

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[Becky]

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[Kael]

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[Becky]

We have both lived quite a life. I've. I've suffered a lot of loss in my life, I've experienced all different kinds of battles that I've had to face. And I think that life is easier lived when we share those battles because we're not meant to do them alone. And, you know, everyone listening has suffered through something and, you know, pain is so universal throughout everyone that it. It's a shame that we're taught that we have to hold things in. And I kind of just. I want to speak to what this means for me personally in this situation. I know that there's a lot of hesitation around me coming in. I know that there is just people upset. Right. You just spent the last four years with the same. Or the people listening. You spent the last four years with the same people listening in for every Tuesday. So you guys are going to mourn this loss in some capacity, and we had no ill intentions of coming in and just kind of replacing it. So I just want to make sure people understand that your feelings are so validated and feeling some type of discomfort and change and discomfort and just the chaos of kind of how this all unfolded. And I get it, and I just hope and wish that in the future we get a chance to kind of let you enjoy this and how we're going to play out this show again. We're going to bring a lot of light to situations and just talk through life and just kind of try to get through it together. Be open. I'm such an open and transparent person. You can see that already on my kind of my socials, I have a blog speaking through. My wife and I are going through IVF right now and the struggles of ivf. That's. That's kind of the topic in my life, but just obviously recently lost my dad. I'm the youngest of five, so I've had trouble and fallouts with siblings before. We all have great relationships now. If you guys want to follow along and get to know a little bit more about myself, I do have a bunch of personal blog posts out there already at beckyhater.com, haters spelled with a Y H A Y Z E R. And I used to have a podcast, so bear with me in getting back into the podcast world. I have been out of the game for five years, six years almost. But the first two seasons of for the Haters is still out there, and I intend to actually bring that back once I kind of get back back into the rhythm of all of this. For the Haters is something that was so close to my heart. It brought a lot of good back into this world and A lot of what I stand for as a person shined through in that podcast of just speaking to all different kinds of traumatic events and just life that people lived. And I shed light to their stories. Every episode's a different person. Every episode is a different traumatic event that happened to someone. So, yeah, I'm excited to get that back running. But there are two seasons that are still.

[Kael]

Still circulating for the haters was really cool because it wasn't really focusing on people who had huge followings. It was more sort of talking through really traumatic life events or childhoods or whatever that person went through. And so I think that was really cool, you know, giving a platform to people who otherwise wouldn't necessarily have it, a chance to talk through their traumas and their. Their pain and their loss. And I think that was really a unique spin on, you know, the pod in. In the podcasting space. And so I think that everyone sort of offers something different, but so many people can relate to each person's episode. And I think you have that. That's still up on YouTube, right?

[Becky]

Yeah, it's on. It's on YouTube. Every platform that you can find or you listen to your podcast as well. I think that in this world that we live in, we're often faced. We're often put in a position to face things alone. And I think that when we open up and we allow ourselves to be there for each other and give other people the opportunity to be there, it allows us to heal more and heal in a way that is, in a long term, just benefits us. Right, for growth, for different possibilities. We've both been in really dark places where we both, you know, didn't want to be here. We thought that not being here was better than the alternative. And I think that allows for me to relate in a way, and probably yourself, too, just to. To people in general and those struggling with either mental health or just life. Life's hard. Like, life can be really hard. And there's zero reason that we should feel alone in that space when we're all feeling that or we all have felt that way.

[Kael]

When you were talking about losing your dad, had you sort of grieving the losses of friendships? That's so interesting to me. It's so interesting how losing someone affects different people differently. Right. Like, I had lost a friend in high school, and that had me questioning whether there was a God or. Or not. It was just, like such a weird. I. I don't even know how to explain it. And so when you're talking about your. You were grieving you said you felt selfish, but I wonder what about the loss of your dad even had you questioning or. Or grieving the losses of not just me, but all the. Any friendships that you lost.

[Becky]

Yeah. I think that grief brings up feelings, like, untouched feelings that you just don't know are there. Right. I lost my best friend in 2016, and that was my first experience with death in a. In a really traumatic way. He overdosed. He was, you know, my best friend. And I took that instance where my life was no longer to be lived just for myself. I was living my life for those that, you know, life's life was cut short for them. And so that could have gone either way. Right. I could have gone into a spiral of death and just sadness, or I. I went the other way of being happy. Like, how lucky am I that I got to spend the first 26 years of my life or 16 years of my life with this person in my life? And I think I've just carried that through. I've been mourning my Dad's death for eight years. He was diagnosed in, ironically, 2016. 2016 was a really weird year. And so I've. I had to actively already mourn. Right. He'll never meet my children. He'll. He was never going to be present for my wedding day, whether that be physically or mentally. I had to mourn these things over the past eight years, which. Grief of someone alive just comes at a different capacity. And when you're grieving someone alive, I think it brings up other grief that you're also going through. And my dad, I was lucky that I had zero regrets. Right. A lot of the thing with death is that we face regrets in life of missed conversations or things that you never were able to discuss. I had a really great relationship with my dad. It wasn't very, like, a talking relationship, but I knew he loved me, and I knew that we had the times that we did, and I cared for him as I did. But, yeah, grief is just crazy. Like, we. We are all going, why is it I always say this? Why isn't grief taught? Why isn't grief taught better in school? Just because it's not like, no one's gonna go through it. Not everyone's gonna experience death in their life, and it's something that's inevitable. So why aren't we taught how to deal with it a little bit easier on us? Right. Like, it's always gonna be sad. You're allowed to be sad during grief, but I just think there's more beautiful ways to. To honor People, we do need to.

[Kael]

Be taught about death because Lux told me to step on a crack. And I said, why would I do that? And he said, it will because your mom, you'll break her back. And I was like, well, my mom's dead to me. And he said, oh good, then she's probably looking up at us in hello. So. So we definitely all deal with death differently. Lux is something.

[Becky]

Where did he come from?

[Kael]

I don't know when I asked.

[Becky]

So quick witted when I ask him.

[Kael]

He tells me from my vagina. So I. I know that you haven't. Alessandra said Lux is 10 toes down for his mom. When I tell y', all, that boy is a rider. He is. He's not playing. No. But to be fair, like, you really do experience death all different kinds of ways. And yeah, I think I had mentioned in the last episode that we recorded when Becky and I were live for my Philadelphia show, we were all backstage and for those of you guys who couldn't attend, I had Tracy Carnazo opened for me and her best friend is Noel. If you guys listen to Team mom trash talk. I also had the do dads there for our last segment. And we're sitting backstage and I look around the room and everybody's dads were dead. All of them. Becky, Noel, Tracy, Tom, Jerry, Kristen. And then Alessandra and I are looking at it. Alessandra wasn't there, but I had brought her up in spirit and I was like, and me and Alessandra's are dead beats. So I guess that we're all just in this dead dad's club. The only way to get through it is to laugh and it's kind of up. But I think that to Becky's point, Becky had a great relationship with her dad. So I feel like I just, I don't know how that, how it would be like to grieve a father where you don't have a good relationship and you're trying to get through that. But in the room we all laughed, but it, it wasn't funny to me. I was just like trying. I was just. Didn't even know what to say.

[Becky]

Yeah, I. It wasn't funny to me.

[Kael]

It wasn't funny to me. Kristen actually said that she couldn't imagine grieving someone who's still alive. And I, to Becky's point, she also just said that while she was grieving the loss of her dad over the last eight years, I could not imagine, but in some senses I can because I feel like I have grieved my mom. I never really grieved my dad because my dad has never been in my life. Right? But like my mom when she's sober is such a good person and she true, I do treat her like she's dead to me because we don't have a relationship and you've met more of my kids than my mom has.

[Becky]

And it's okay to grieve someone living. It's. It's okay to be in that situation of having feelings of that way. I mean, we grieve friendship loss, we grieve relationship loss, right? Like when you break up with your significant other or you're broken up with your grief is just a constant in the world. So I've got a five month old at home, which means I'm living in survival mode. Sleep deprived, constantly multitasking and feeling like my body is just weird. Like not sick but not quite right either. I keep noticing things feel off, like discomfort, nothing major, but definitely not how I used to feel. And listen, when you've barely had time to shower and you're trying to reclaim any scrap of intimacy or confidence, that stuff matters. That's when I found Neuro from O Positive. It's a Daily vaginal probiotic, two capsules a day, that supports pH balance, helps with odor and just keeps things healthy down there. What I love is that it's actually backed by research and made with real doctors. I noticed a difference in just a couple weeks. More balance, more confidence. Like finally feeling myself again. If your body has been sending you weird little help me signals lately, Euro might be exactly what you need. It's not just about fixing problems. It's about feeling good in your body again. Take proactive care of your health and head to oppositive.com karma or enter karma at checkout for 25 off your first purchase. That's O-P-O-S-I-T-I V.com karma for 25 off.

[Kael]

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[Becky]

There's deeper conversations that we could have because I could go into a million different directions of relationships with my. Especially with my father because it's crazy for me to think about. I've never had an adult conversation with my dad. So I still.

[Kael]

Wait, before he was, before he got sick. Is that the right term to say he got sick? Or is that not how you.

[Becky]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, he was.

[Kael]

Did you say what he had?

[Becky]

He has. He had primary progressive aphasia. So it's a frontal lobe dementia. It's what Bruce Willis was diagnosed with. That's what I always say. Because people kind of tend to know that happen. It affects your ability to communicate. You essentially become mute. And you're also affects physical. After you become mute to short term memory is kind of completely gone.

[Kael]

But you didn't have. Have you before your dad got sick, did you have an adult conversation with him? Or did you mean like you don't never really had those types of conversations in your relationship?

[Becky]

I moved home from Philly when I was 25. Right. So I never. Me and my dad didn't talk on the phone. We didn't have conversations like that. And I didn't really reach a point of needing help until that age, you know.

[Kael]

But both can be true. You could have a really great relationship with your dad, but you didn't have that sort of adult sort of.

[Becky]

I never had an adult relationship with him ever.

[Kael]

Okay, but you had a good relationship with him?

[Becky]

Yeah, I didn't have a bad relationship with him. Like he was always. It was always just fun and happiness when I, when we were together, it was always jokes and laughing.

[Kael]

But even as a child. You mean you. Through your whole relationship with your dad and your dad passed away. Your parents were still married too?

[Becky]

They were, yeah.

[Kael]

This is so interesting. Because I don't think that I knew that about your relationship. I have hung out with Larry before, and so I just. I guess. Okay, so it wasn't for a lack of depth in the relationship. It was just your personalities. You never really had to have an.

[Becky]

Adult conversation, just a quiet man.

[Kael]

Did your siblings have the same sort of relationship?

[Becky]

I think that. No, I think we all had different relationships with him, which is funny.

[Kael]

Do you feel like, as the youngest of five, that you're. And I asked this because I have a lot of children, right. Like, do you feel like your relationships with your parents, your dad, your mom were all equal but very different? Or do you feel like you had to fight for the love and attention that other siblings got?

[Becky]

Our. Our relationships were never equal. Her face just changed. Yeah, our. Our relationships were all very different and our relationships were never equal. And it all depended. It was different. In every stage of our life, there was. There was always someone that had the most love for sure.

[Kael]

Because of circumstances or because. Because what I just, I'm trying to understand because I didn't grow up with siblings. And so it's. When people ask me who my favorite child is, I'm like, I literally don't have one. And like, I joke with my kids and I'm like, whoever is the best behaved, but it's a joke. But it's like, not funny because I think that I need to love my kids that are going through a hard time. I need to love them a little bit harder because they're the ones that need it in that moment. But it's interesting because I thought that your family was. When you have told me stories about needing to be home at 5 o' clock for dinner or whatever the time was, like you had to be home for your traditional dinner. Your. Your mother put food on, hot meals on the table every, like, I just picture this, like, picture perfect childhood with, like, really great relationships with your parents.

[Becky]

Don't we all wish we had. No, I think it was. It was. Everything was different. I. I was a student athlete my entire life. So my life was in a spotlight forever. I was a good athlete. My sister got into a lot of trouble growing up. She was kind of a. And so there was just different. We were different humans and our parents just got along better with certain personalities, other, you know, opposed to others. Like, we all were loved and cared for as any parent should. But I think that it's a general, you know, I think it's a generational thing that, that generation. Right. That baby boomer generation has A inability emotionally to love children as much as say, our generation or my older sister's generation. I think that that is very apparent. And so there was just an emotional disconnect. Disconnect for sure.

[Kael]

Well, do you think it's a lack of ability to love the way that we do now, or do you think it's a lack of, of display of love? Because I feel like, I mean, I don't know this for sure, but. Wait, how old were your parents? How old are your parents?

[Becky]

My dad was 68, my mom is 71.

[Kael]

Okay, so they're a little bit older than my mom. I mean, my mom's a little bit different, but when I look at the generations of like my mom's older brother, absolute lack of just all of it. Like, I don't think that he, like, he literally wrote letters and said things to like, like he doesn't want relationships with us. So like, I think to your point, yes, I think that they had a lack of ability altogether, but I also think some of them had the, had the ability to love and wanted to love, but they, they were taught not to display the affection.

[Becky]

Yeah. So I think the biggest difference is that the older generation often is like, this is what I dealt with, so I'm going to do what I. What was done to me, to you, the way that our generation kind of works. And the difference is we don't want to give forward of what was done to us. We want to, we want to change the direction we want to love. We want to show emotions, we want to overly care for and it's not. And so I give a little bit of grace and empathy to write my mom or my dad because they were, they were not treated that well by their parents and so they didn't know any different. Human. They're humans too. Right. So they're just, they just put forth of what they knew.

[Kael]

And I feel like that has been your perspective for so many things over the years that I have talked to you about like certain topics. The whole Duck Dynasty situation with the one guy who had all of these feelings towards the gay people and you were like, what did you all expect? Like, he couldn't have known any different. And you were not like offend, you weren't offended. Right. Like you were giving him sort of the benefit of the doubt in, you know, all of like how he was raised, like who he was around. He couldn't know any different.

[Becky]

Yeah. And, and I still am like that because I, I live in the area of where homophobia is still real. Right. Like, I. I experienced that in my childhood. I experienced that in life. And so I know how people were raised. And until someone is given the facts of what they need or given the chance to just meet someone. Right. Has he ever had the. Had he. Had he ever had a conversation with a gay person and still decided that he hated gay people? Right. So I just think that everything is a deeper level.

[Kael]

To bring this episode sort of full circle. I want to go down memory lane a little bit to talk about how we met, because I don't think that the first time we recorded this episode, we didn't have the details correct, and.

[Becky]

We were all over the place.

[Kael]

No, truly, for those of you guys listening, Becky and I could not get our shit together. And we had totally different memories of how we met, and we were both wrong, because by halfway through the conversation, we ended up realizing that we were both wrong. We thought that we met at Hobby's deployment party, like his going away party.

[Becky]

Which was actually camp. Like he was going to basic camp. Basic. Basic.

[Kael]

Is that training?

[Becky]

Basic basic training. Yeah.

[Kael]

But we thought that we met at his deployment going away party, which was in 2016, but she was. But then halfway through the conversation, we realized Becky was at our wedding in 2012 or 2013. Because actually, Javi and I got married twice. For. For those of you guys who don't know, we got married at. Through justice of the Peace, and then we also had a huge wedding one year later. So we got married in 2012. Becky and I met at Javi's going away party to basic training for the military, and we met through Becky's ex. Becky's ex actually lied to Becky about our relationship, and I didn't find that out until years and years later, which was really interesting to me, because why. Why do we have to lie about how we met? But then it was determined that I also lied to Javi about how Kim and I met, because Javi was not going to be on board to go to a concert with someone that I had off the Internet. So I had to also lie to him and be like, yeah, we went to school together, which we did not.

[Becky]

Maybe that's why Kim told me that you guys went to school together because you lied to Javi and told me.

[Kael]

She told me to.

[Becky]

Yeah. So maybe that's why she lied to me about it.

[Kael]

Oh, well, we should have all had, like, a come to Jesus meeting at some point to discuss that, because that was really weird to find out, like, years later. But so that's how we met and then when Javi and I got divorced, I think by nature, and I think this happens a lot. This sort of also kind of ties back to, like, grieving the loss of friendships, is that sometimes, I think whether you're married or not, when you're in a relationship with someone for a period of time and you develop relationships with friends of your significant other and they become your friend as well, it's really, really hard to either stay friends with both and you're sort of by default, picking a side, or you're. You're becoming. You're on one side or the other. And I think that that can be really, really hard. And I think just by nature, Becky and I remained friends, and then Becky's ex and Javi remained friends for some time. And so that's sort of what happened was, like, in the divorce, I got Becky, and then Javi got Kim. Kim.

[Becky]

Yeah. And then we. We stayed. We had such a great friendship for what it was at that time. Like, we had the best friendship for what we both could put out there in the capacity of our maturity level, in the capacity of everything going in. Around in life. But we had so much fun. We've experienced quite a bit of life together, traveling. We used to go do Christmas trips every year with. With the. Both. With the two of us and the. And the kids we used to go on. And we should start that again. What was it, the annual Christmas trip?

[Kael]

No, we have to, because I don't do Christmas with my. I don't know if I told you this, but I think around the time that we stopped being friends, I. Oh, I think it was before we stopped being friends, I stopped doing Christmas. I don't do Christmas gifts. I don't do the tree thing. I did try the tree thing last year. No gifts. And I still don't love it. So I'm definitely down to do Christmas trips again. Down for the experience.

[Becky]

And with. With me potentially having children on the way, it could be fun.

[Kael]

Yes, I think that would be really fun.

[Becky]

We should do that. But for those that don't know, I don't think we touched on this. I was a part of Never paid on contrary to people's beliefs, but I was never paid to be Kael's friend.

[Kael]

Oh. I didn't know where we were going with this. Did you sign an NDA, though?

[Lauren]

No.

[Becky]

No.

[Kael]

Okay. Will you sign one now?

[Becky]

No, no, no. I think that if at any point I was gonna talk about you publicly, it would have been in the past five years.

[Kael]

Oh, for sure. I think that if I would have.

[Becky]

Sold you out, it would have been in my immature days, not my maturity days, but we did Teen Mom. I was on Teen mom quite a bit with you. I did marriage boot camp with you. I did Game of Clones. Game of Clones with you. I did summer. I came to summer unions with you as well. But it was always fun. It was never, like, something that I expected to get paid for. It was just a fun time to be hanging out. We got our dinners paid for.

[Kael]

And.

[Becky]

At that time of life, that was more than enough.

[Kael]

I feel like our. During that time, like your early 20s, like, it was such a cool and surreal experience. Like, how many people were filming a TV show in their 20s? You know what I mean? And so I think in that. In that respect, like, it was just such a weird and cool time. Like, I even look back and I'm like, was I really on TV for 13 years? Like, that just feels so insane to me. And when I look back, and obviously there are pros and cons to everything, but I'm like, that was a really cool time.

[Becky]

Like, overall, yeah, like, con being someone diving onto a table that we're eating dinner at.

[Kael]

Okay, so Becky and I were having this dinner. What was that dinner for? Was that for your birthday?

[Becky]

It was for my ex's birthday.

[Kael]

Okay, so we were all at a dinner and.

[Becky]

Yeah, it was a lot of people too.

[Kael]

There was.

[Becky]

Spencer was there.

[Kael]

Okay, so Becky has a best friend named Spencer. Also. Congratulations to Spencer. If you're listening on your wedding and getting.

[Becky]

She's definitely not listening.

[Kael]

Listening, but okay, maybe his wife is.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kael]

Hi, Amanda. I hope that you'll take the position we're offering. I. We were just, like, all chilling, and this person gets up. He must have been up, and literally just dives onto this set table with all sorts of food and plates and everything else. Dives head first onto our table that we're eating at.

[Becky]

It was crazy. Everyone was so shocked. Someone, one of my friends that was there brought it up to me the other day. But that was one of the cons of. Of being on TV for so long.

[Kael]

People just love to have their attention.

[Becky]

It's funny, because that was always a question that people would ask me in the wild, would be, you know, is reality TV real? And I'd always have to go into the explanation of, like, the scenario of what filming Team mom was like in minor detail. But.

[Kael]

Well, I will say, though, compared to the other reality shows that I've been a part of, I will say that Teen mom has been the most real. So for sure that's what.

[Becky]

And I never doubt it. I'm not a reality TV person, so I don't have much to compare it to, but the situations were always real. It was just always brought up out of. Not context, but out of the situation. You always had to retalk about issues. And so that always just made things really hard and just kind of blew up.

[Kael]

And if something happened off, off camera while we weren't filming. Yeah, we would have to recreate it or re. Talk about it. And so that's where we would come out and you know, publicly or on social media and be like, well, that's not how it really happened. Because when you have to recreate something or you have to rehab a conversation that already happened, that's sort of what we meant. But yeah, I mean, they weren't, they weren't completely made up situations or telling us to do something. It was just like, hey, can you have a conversation about this that happened? Or can you have a conversation about, can you guys go for a walk and talk about this? And so there were, I can't say that it was like there was nothing that was like made up or they had to make it make sense for the viewers. So if anyone has ever followed my journey and I go back and forth about, yeah, I do reality tv again, I think on the right circumstances I would. But in terms of that, it's like, I mean, you have to recreate certain things.

[Becky]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. It would be like they would be chiming in from the back of your producers, ask her this question and then just to spark it. And then it would unfortunately spark frustration because you're revisiting something that was not good. It was a fight about something.

[Kael]

So you're just, can we, for Patreon, should we go look for like all the episodes that you and I did together and like rewatch them? Yeah, that should be so fun.

[Becky]

I just saw one on Tick Tock of Us. Dude, I don't. You could have paid me money to tell me that this happened and I would have been like, no, I don't remember that. It's like we, it's me, you, Gigi, Peach and Kim and we go out to dinner and we convince you to go out with us after. Afterwards, I saw this and I was like, first of all, the pencil thin eyebrows is real.

[Kael]

Did I also have pencil thin eyebrows?

[Becky]

Everyone did. And I was like, no way is that. I don't even remember this. I had a collar and a sweater and a side ponytail.

[Kael]

No, you didn't.

[Becky]

Yes, I did.

[Kael]

Okay, so we're. That's where 100 doing that in 2025. We can react in real time. People would love that. That also, we would love to hear about your relationships and rekindlings and maybe even experience with grief in any way, whatever that looks like. If it's a death. If it's a death. If it's a loved one that you, you know, that didn't pass away, but you're grieving the loss, you guys can email us at Karma Chaos Pod gmail dot com.

[Becky]

Yeah, and that goes for any other topics too, right? We're here to learn. We understand that there's certain topics that people might want us to talk about. We're gonna yap for as long as we can about things that we enjoy. But if we're not hitting topics that might be relevant to your life, feel free to, you know, reach out to us, send us a little inquiry, be like, hey, can you talk about this and talk about that? And we'll, we'll do it.

[Kael]

We'll talk about it. We'll love it. And in the meantime, you guys can follow us over on socials. We have a TikTok called Karma Chaos Pod on TikTok. You can follow Becky at hater25 on all socials, I hope. Stick with us. Give us a chance. Don't go anywhere yet because this episode we know is all over the place. But I think once we get, once we find our footing, we'll have a really good show and I think that we can have a lot of fun for sure.

[Becky]

And also the branding right now is not our branding in the future. We just needed some temp placeholders thrown together by yours truly. So be nice or Leah will be sad. And we don't like when Leah's sad, period.

[Kael]

Thank you, Alessandra, for helping us through this episode. Also, Becky, love you so much. And we'll see you guys next week.

[Becky]

Thank you so much.

[Kael]

Too. Foreign.

[Lauren]

Hi, I'm Lauren. And I'm Chandler. And we're the hosts of Pop Apologists podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, Real housewives drama, and anything and everything. Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that a listers might mean more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for pop apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.

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