FOR THE HAYTERS S2E1 - Eczema: Having Thick Skin

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Episode: FOR THE HAYTERS S2E1 - Eczema: Having Thick Skin
Release Date: January 13, 2025
Host/Author: PodcastOne

---

Introduction

In the inaugural episode of Season 2, titled "Eczema: Having Thick Skin," hosts Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter delve into the challenging and often misunderstood journey of managing severe eczema. This episode features a heartfelt conversation with Fatima, a nurse battling chronic eczema and its debilitating effects on both her physical and emotional well-being. Through candid discussions, Fatima shares her personal struggles, treatment battles, and the profound impact of community support.

---

Guest Introduction: Fatima [01:01]

Becky warmly welcomes Fatima to the podcast, highlighting her as a special guest who is new to the podcasting scene. Fatima introduces herself, revealing her 31 years of age and setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of her eczema journey.

Fatima [02:08]: "So basically it's a skin condition where it's, you know, characterized by like red patches, dry patches. It's just constant itching."

---

Fatima’s Early Struggles with Eczema [02:07]

Fatima recounts her early years, beginning in childhood when her mother first noticed eczema on her skin. The condition became severe by the time she was in kindergarten, covering her body from head to toe.

Fatima [02:20]: "I was always red and, like, dry all the time. I remember waking up in the middle of the night scratching all the time."

---

Pregnancy and Eczema Flare-Up [04:17]

Upon becoming pregnant with her son, Fatima experienced a significant resurgence of eczema symptoms, exacerbated by a beer allergy. Her condition intensified during pregnancy, leading to sleepless nights and increasing discomfort.

Fatima [04:49]: "I was up all night scratching. It got to a point where, like, it was really interfering with like, my sleep."

---

Treatment Attempts and Topical Steroid Withdrawal [06:00 - 07:02]

Fatima details her arduous journey through various treatments prescribed by her dermatologist, including topical and oral steroids, injections, and antifungals. Despite these efforts, her eczema persisted and even worsened over time.

Fatima [07:02]: "We tried oral steroids. And the oral steroids kind of worked... but as soon as I started coming off that steroid dose pack, the patches would come back in the same spots again."

---

Emotional Impact and Mental Health [22:40 - 25:35]

The conversation shifts to the emotional toll of chronic eczema. Fatima opens up about feelings of isolation, depression, and the constant battle with self-esteem. She emphasizes how little support she felt despite having a supportive husband and mother.

Fatima [22:45]: "I just felt really alone and, like, borderline depressed. If I didn't have my son, I probably would have laid in bed all day and just cried."

---

The Role of Social Media and Community Support [25:35 - 37:53]

Discovering the topical steroid withdrawal (TSW) community on Instagram becomes a pivotal moment for Fatima. Connecting with others who share similar struggles provides her with hope, encouragement, and a sense of belonging.

Fatima [27:33]: "The amount of support the community has, the topical steroid withdrawal community on Instagram, like, it's insane. I'll post one picture, and everyone's like, you got this."

---

Self-Esteem and Personal Growth [43:03 - 55:40]

Through persistent positivity and embracing her journey, Fatima experiences significant personal growth. She learns to appreciate herself, improves her self-esteem, and gains a renewed sense of confidence despite ongoing flare-ups.

Fatima [43:03]: "I'm happy with this and I'm okay. Life is good. Despite everything I've gone through, I know I'm gonna get better."

---

Advice and Final Thoughts [59:01 - 60:14]

In her closing remarks, Fatima urges listeners to advocate for themselves, seek support, and embrace self-love. She highlights the importance of community and the transformative power of sharing one's story.

Fatima [59:02]: "Just be more positive. And, you know, I don't think I ever would have done anything to myself, but I don't think I would have been here mentally. I would have been still lost and confused had I not reached out."

---

Key Takeaways

• Chronic Eczema Struggles: Fatima's journey underscores the relentless challenges of managing severe eczema and the often limited effectiveness of conventional treatments.
• Emotional Toll: Beyond physical discomfort, eczema can lead to significant emotional distress, including depression and low self-esteem.
• Community Support: Social media communities, like the TSW group on Instagram, play a crucial role in providing support, understanding, and hope for individuals facing similar struggles.
• Personal Growth: Embracing positivity and self-love can lead to profound personal transformations, even amidst ongoing health battles.
• Advocacy: Sharing personal stories can not only aid in personal healing but also help raise awareness and foster supportive communities.

---

Notable Quotes

• Fatima on Isolation:

  "I just felt really alone and, like, borderline depressed." [22:45]

• Fatima on Community Support:

  "The amount of support the community has... is insane." [27:33]

• Fatima on Self-Love:

  "Just love yourself and just, you know, be yourself." [59:02]

• Becky on Positive Choices:

  "Whatever you're going through, it is a choice to change the way that you see it." [54:21]

---

Conclusion

"FOR THE HAYTERS S2E1 - Eczema: Having Thick Skin" offers a deeply personal and enlightening exploration of living with chronic eczema. Through Fatima's story, listeners gain insight into the physical and emotional challenges of the condition, the complexities of treatment options, and the undeniable power of community and self-advocacy. This episode serves as both a source of comfort for those experiencing similar struggles and an educational piece for those seeking to understand the multifaceted impact of eczema.

---

Note: For a visual representation of Fatima's journey and to connect with the TSW community, listeners are encouraged to visit her Instagram account, which she credits as pivotal in her healing process.

Transcript

[Fatima]

Amazing deals on activewear for all the ways you move are at Nordstrom Rack stores now.

[Becky]

How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Oh, I love these new Nikes.

[Fatima]

I always score at Rac. Stock up on new gear from the best brands in the game, starting at just $40. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rac.

[Laura]

The haters. For the haters. Come on, do it now or later. It don't matter what your name is. Share your story. We'll be waiting for the haters.

[Becky]

All right, you ready?

[Fatima]

Now I'm getting nervous, so just go.

[Becky]

All right, what's up, everybody? And welcome back to for the Haters podcast. My name is Becky, and we are also joined by Laura, who is our co founder and writer. For those of you that are new here, welcome. We have a special guest, Fatima, if you want to just say hello.

[Fatima]

Oh, hello.

[Becky]

Fatima's getting warmed up to the whole podcast thing, so it's fun. So, yeah. Awesome. Cool. So I'm pretty notorious, and I say that now almost every single time as well. Is if we want to just jump right into things, which means it's your turn to talk.

[Fatima]

Oh, me? Oh, crap.

[Doug]

All right, so that's not putting pressure.

[Becky]

On her at all. Here's what to do.

[Fatima]

Okay.

[Becky]

Just start off with yourself. You know, introduce yourself. Your. Why don't you talk about your early stages first? Like your early years and why you're here and what we're going to talk about.

[Fatima]

Okay. Okay.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Fatima]

All right. So I'm Fatima. I'm 31. Holy crap. Years old. So basically my story kind of starts when I was a baby, maybe about two, three. My mom started noticing I had eczema. Like, you know, some patches here and there didn't really get bad until I was about maybe five or six. I remember, like, kindergarten, first grade. And I was covered at that point, head to toe. For in eczema, I was always red and, like, dry all the time. I remember waking up in the middle of the night scratching all the time. And my brother still jokes about how he used to put boards on my arms because that way I couldn't scratch. I couldn't bend my arms. Oh, wow. Because it was so bad, my sister would wake up in the middle of the night and tell me, like, dude, stop scratching. Like, but for the.

[Becky]

For the. Sorry to cut you off. But for. If you want to kind of just explain what exhibit is, if someone listening doesn't know what it is.

[Fatima]

So basically it's a skin condition where it's, you know, characterized by like red patches, dry patches. It's just constant itching. And I guess that's really what it is. You know, it's just dry skin. Sometimes it's inflamed and red and, you know, it can be a little bit annoying and, you know, gets in the way of life sometimes if it's pretty bad. But for the most part, it could be manageable.

[Becky]

Okay.

[Fatima]

Yeah, so.

[Becky]

So after your child.

[Fatima]

So I kind of grew out of it. Maybe when I was in high school, I noticed for the first time that I wasn't constantly having flare ups all the time. And I actually went for years without having too many flare ups. Like I have a little bit of my arms on my legs, but they would always go away, like really quickly. I would just put a little bit of sometimes a steroid cream if it was too bad. But mostly like Usurin, Aveeno, Dove products, stuff like that. And it would go away pretty well. So. And yeah, so I was pretty much clear until college. I think I had one big flare up, but it was when I first started drinking beer. So I have a beer allergy. It just inflames and like exacerbates my eczema. So I can't really drink beer, which is fine. But it's like Becky's worst nightmare.

[Becky]

Maybe there's crown apple.

[Fatima]

That's the worst nightmare. That true? Oh, God. But I actually like the taste of beer. But anyway, so basically I was clear up until I got pregnant. I got pregnant with my son. I started to notice, like, I was just very itchy. And I googled it. You know, obviously I have eczema. It's just probably because of that. But they said sometimes the hormones in your pregnancy can make you really itchy. I would be up all night, like, scratching. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah. Am I allowed to curse?

[Doug]

Every single person asks that.

[Fatima]

I feel like you should. I was thinking on the way. I'm like, I shouldn't curse. Like, just don't.

[Becky]

But if it comes out, it comes out as well.

[Fatima]

So I would be up all night scratching. And it got to a point where, like, it was really interfering with like, my sleep. And like, I wasn't sleeping at all because then I was getting uncomfortable being pregnant. Like, this sucks. So I finally went to my, my regular OB and I asked him, like, is it safe to do like, any kind of stop topical steroids or anything like that? And he said, well, go to your dermatologist to find out. So I did. And he prescribed me like a very mild, like 1% basically over the counter cream. And he said to just mix it in with lotion just a little bit and rub it on and you should be fine. So I did that. And I did that pretty much. Not too much. I didn't really do it too often while I was pregnant with my son because I was nervous about the steroids affecting him too. Even though he said it would be safe. But so I stopped, you know, once I was close to my pregnancy, it started to wear off a little bit. I was starting to get more comfortable. I would have, like, patches, but it wasn't interfering with my sleep and stuff like that anymore. So when I had my son, it kind of went away and I had my eczema cleared up and I was, you know, loving life. Had this newborn. He was frigging awesome. And I'm like, everything's back to normal and I have this little person. It was great. But when I was about. When he was six months is when I started to notice that the symptoms started to come back again. And it was always, like, right in between my breast and like on my chest and a little bit on my face here, like mostly on this side. And it would just come and then, like, go and then, like, come and go. And then all of a sudden it was just like, really inflamed all the time. And I was like, what is happening? This is crazy. Like, I was so focused on my skin versus my newborn. Like, it was really, like, it sucked really bad. So. And I ended up going back to my dermatologist and was, you know, he tried me on so many different things, like more steroids and fluconazole and clobatazole, all the kinds of steroids.

[Doug]

These are all topical steroids.

[Fatima]

Topical steroids. And none of it was really working. I'd come back, pay the doctor again to tell me my eczema's flared. Yes, I know. Thank you. So then we tried oral steroids. And the oral steroids kind of worked. They worked and I was like, holy crap, I'm clear. That next day I was able to. It wasn't itchy. It was going right. The redness was gone. But as soon as I started coming off that steroid dose pack, the oral one, I started noticing, like, before it was even done, my patches would come back, like, in the same spots again. I'm like, oh, man. And we did like two rounds of oral steroids. And then we tried injections. We did IM injections and like, we started off at high dose and, like, it would go away. And the second they would start to wear off. Then he would give me another one at a lower dose. And he was hoping by the end of the IM stuff that it would go away. And it never did. And it just kept coming back and, like, worse each time. Like, I'd come in and they'd take pictures of me, you know, from head to toe, just to document everything. And I don't know, every time the nurse came in, she was like, God, that looks painful. I'm like, it is. Someone help me. You know? And, like, I don't know, it just kind of. It got so bad for a while. Then, like, it just was, like, really interfering with everything I was doing, because all I could think about was my skin. And all I could think about was how itchy I was. Like, I was so itchy all the time, and it's distracting.

[Doug]

Like, it's like, how could you even focus on that?

[Fatima]

It's so distracting. And, like, I would sit there because at the time that I noticed it was starting to get really bad. I would flare. It would get, like, raised and red to, like, warm and hot. And then after a few days, it starts to dry up. And then I would flake. So I'd literally be sitting there picking my flakes, and I'd be sweeping my flakes. Flakes off the floor. And, like, my son's sitting there playing while I'm, like, doing this. And, like, oh, man, I don't miss those days at all. But it was just. It was awful. So I went back to my dermatologist, and finally there's that new medication. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called Dupixent. It's basically like a biologic. So it's almost like an immunosuppressant where it suppresses your immune system, and it's supposed to help clear up your eczema. And it was strictly for eczema patients at the time, and I had to qualify to use it. So not because I wasn't on any more steroids. He was like, we have to try at least one more topical steroid. And I remember I was just like, I'm so done with this. Like, I can't keep putting this stuff on me. I didn't know what it was still yet at the time, so I agreed. I took my script. I didn't even fill it because I was just frustrated. I knew it wasn't going to work. We even tried antifungals because he thought at one point it was in it. I remember going to One of my appointments. And he looked at me and he was like, oh, this is fungal. Because it mostly was here and up. And he's like, you'll see that a lot. I'm like, okay. So I took the antifungals and it didn't do anything at all. So then he said, we'll have to try one more steroid. And I'm like, fine, whatever. I gave it a week. And I was like, it's not working. Give me the, give me the fucking dupix. And like. So I finally was able to get that. And that was a pain in the ass just to get the medication. Like it's a whole other story. But I finally get it. I get one dose in. It's like one injection every week because of insurance. Oh yeah, insurance. Like you have to make sure. Like they had to document everything. And then it was just the pharmacies to get it from, like a mail in pharmacy because no pharmacy carried it. So I had to get it like mailed in. This.

[Doug]

Was that new?

[Fatima]

Yeah, it's like pretty new on the market. And he said, said it works wonders. And it did, and it worked great. And like I was. I had two injections and I was clear. I have pictures from like the end of the year. It was like December into January and I had like no flare ups. Maybe a little redness here and there, but it, it wasn't bad at all. And I was like, so stoked. I'm like, okay, I finally found my thing. I was like, maybe after a while I can slowly come off of it and I won't have to be on anything.

[Becky]

Is that, Was that another steroid though?

[Fatima]

No, no, not a steroid. It's a different class of medication, but it worked. The only thing, because it was an immunosuppressant, I carry the cold sore virus. So I get cold sores pretty. Not often, but I would get them. So because it suppresses your immune system, you get cold sores more often. And I was not just getting them on my lips, I was getting them on my eyes, up here on my neck, like really random spots. And I had a newborn at home and I'm like, shit, I can't like all of a sudden have one on my lips. And I'm giving him kisses all day long. Like I eat his face all day long. There's no way. Crap that I'm going to like, you know, just have one pop up. And like, I didn't, I didn't want to risk it, so I had to.

[Doug]

That's not the best trade off either.

[Fatima]

Exactly. So I had to make that difficult decision where I was finally comfortable. And it was only like three months that I had to come off of medication because the other alternative was to go on, like, antiviral. And I'm like, I don't. Just for me personally, I don't like medication. I'm a nurse. It's weird. I pop them into people's mouth all the time, but I don't like to take them personally. And so I said, I'll have to come off of it. I'll just have to deal with it. Because I didn't want to put him at risk. I didn't want to have him have to worry about that. Whatever.

[Doug]

Now, the antiviral would have been like a supplement to.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So what would it like? Why the apprehension? Just looks. I have no idea.

[Fatima]

I just didn't want to be on another medication. I had already, like, flooded my body in the last few months before then, like, with different kinds of things. And I was like, I don't, I don't. I'll just manage. And if it goes away, it goes away. If not, whatever. Like, I'll deal with it. So basically I stopped that. And that was a. So basically it's been a year since I've been on any kind of medication around this time. I stopped it last year and I didn't have any symptoms for a while. And I think it was like three months after I got that red. Same red spot, like here and in between breasts started itching and then right here started flaring again. I was like, okay, okay, it's fine. I'm gonna have to deal with it, whatever. But it got so bad. The one time I was at work, I was like, my boss used to call me a tomato. That's how red I was all the time. And I was like, hot all the time. But I was freezing cold, too. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I don't feel sick. Like, I feel fine. I was actually on, like, I was trying to change my diet thinking, you know, the eczema people are saying it starts from the gut. Okay, so let me change my diet. I changed my diet. I lost 30 pounds. I felt great, but all the symptoms still persisted. So. And I know, like, with anything it takes a while, like a good year, two years to really notice a change in, like, a chronic thing. But, like, I just felt like it was making everything worse. I stopped eating pretty much. I was drinking water, eating watermelon and drinking celery. Juice and my smoothies, and that was it. And I lost a lot of weight. I just didn't feel good, like, mentally. Then I was like, I don't know what the F is going on. I went back to my dermatologist, and he's like, it's just severe eczema. Okay, okay, okay.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Fatima]

Like, how many times can you hear that when you're just like, I understand that, but I need something to work, you know? Like, it's really fucking with me, you know?

[Doug]

Right.

[Fatima]

So where was I?

[Doug]

It was really fucking with you.

[Becky]

You had. You had decided to stop. And then a couple months later, you started showing.

[Fatima]

Started getting bad again. And, like, at that point, like, I started calling out of work a lot, and my boss, she kind of, you know, was like, you need to. Is there anything I can do? She kind of gave me, like, a couple days off here and there, and I was like, oh, that's fine. But the one day at work, I was just so red, and every doctor was like, oh, oh, oh, ooh. I'm like, yeah, I know. Thanks. Cause I don't know. And my one. My actual primary doctor was like, you need, like, a dose of oral steroids. And I was like, okay.

[Doug]

So the cycle starts again.

[Fatima]

Yeah. So eventually, like, I think I took them, and it just, like, didn't go. Go away again. And I'm like, I'm done, you know? Like, I don't know what to do. And my boss, actually. The one day I came back from lunch, and I was just sitting there with my hand here, and I was, like, shaking because I was just, like, so confused. Like, yeah, it was rough. I was just so confused, and, like, what is going on? What the fuck is going on to me? You know, I had this baby at home. Like, I should be, like, really enjoying this time with him. He was not even one at the time, and maybe he was one already. Yeah, he's like one and a half. And I'm like, he's so much fun right now. And, like, I'm not having any fun. And that sucked so bad. So my boss sent me home, and she actually talked to my doctor because, you know, they know each other through the hospital. And she basically told me, I'm putting you out of work for, like, a month. Dr. Mandel wants to admit you to the hospital just to run some tests and make sure it's really not anything else. Because I kept saying, like, I'm gonna take care of it. I'm gonna keep doing. I was doing the medical medium. I don't know if anyone's heard of him, but he's really popular with, like, chronic illnesses and healing chronic illnesses and eczema and things like that. So I was following his protocols and they were helping me, and I felt great, but my skin just wasn't budging. And everyone's like, I know you wanna do this the natural way, but let's try and see if it's something else. Like, let's just make sure it's not anything else. It's really bugging you. So I agreed, and I was admitted to the hospital for about three days. And they ran all their tests, you know, made sure I wasn't. What's that word now? Like, try and help me here.

[Becky]

I don't know.

[Fatima]

I know. I know you don't.

[Doug]

We can't help.

[Fatima]

Oh, yeah.

[Becky]

Oh, yeah.

[Fatima]

But anyway, they were trying to make sure it wasn't anything, like, you know, anything else, and. Yeah, anything else, but everything came back negative. Like, nothing popped up. Like, no red flags. And they actually consulted my dermatologist and allergist that I'd been seeing. They all came in. And at this point, I remember being in the hospital that first night, I was just researching a lot of stuff, and I had reached out to, like. I posted a couple pictures of myself on my Instagram account, my separate Instagram account from, like, my private one, because I was starting to document, like, my journey. I was like, let me see if I can stick with this and, like, really try and heal, you know? But I wanted to kind of document it. So I posted kind of like a cry for help on there. And I was just like, I don't know what this is. I don't know if anyone has any advice. I was thinking of this or this. And a couple of people actually reached out, and this one girl she had mentioned, go to this website, it's called. It's sand.comor.org, and it really looks like TSW. And I was like, I don't. I don't know what that is. So I actually kind of, like, brushed it off. Because I'm like, no, it's not that. Whatever. It's eczema. Everyone keeps saying it's eczema. So I remember that night, you know, she had said that. And I kind of just left it alone and listened to what everyone else was saying. You know, put. Try this cream, try that cream. And I'm like, okay. So my doctor, my dermatologist came to visit me, and he asked me, you know, told me it's just really severe eczema. I think I want to do a three day treatment where I pump you full of IV steroids and it's just like a really high dose for three days. And I'm like, that sounds terrible. No. So then I remember asking him, because some reason that was like flagging in my head, that tsw, I kind of looked it up. Topical steroid withdrawal. Okay. So I asked my doctor because I looked at some pictures, I'm like, it looked similar, but I wasn't convinced yet. And I asked him, do you know what TSW is? Or red skin syndrome is like the actual name for my condition, red skin syndrome. And he said, oh, well, I've heard of it. There's a doctor out in California that's kind of brought it up to convention sometimes that there's this thing called red skin syndrome, and when you come off the steroids, they go through what's called topical steroid withdrawal. And he's like, I've heard of it, but, you know, everyone kind of laughs it off because it's not a thing. And I go, oh, okay. So first in my head, I'm like, so he has heard of it. Okay, that's fine. So second of all, like, don't laugh at me. Like, I'm trying to ask you, seriously, is this something that it could be if this doctor is out there trying to push, like, this is a thing, we should bring more awareness to it. Why are you, like, so against it? You know, this guy's trying to help people. Why don't you be like, oh, maybe this is a thing. I. I'm sure he's seen it in his lifetime. Some patient of his come in with my condition or whatever, but he kind of laughed it off and I was, like, really pissed about it. So I kind of denied all my doctors. I went home and I did more research on topical steroid withdrawal. And the more I looked into it, I went to that website that the girl posted about, and every single symptom that was on there, like, it checked off all the boxes for me. And I was like, holy fucking shit. I think this is it. I think this is it. And, like, I did more research. I started following more people, and like, the more people I started following, like, their story was very similar to mine and like, their pictures were very similar to mine. And I was like, oh, my God. What?

[Becky]

You, like, finally had an answer?

[Fatima]

I finally had an answer. And then for. So I finally had, like, something to call it. So all those months of me, like, scratching and up all night, like, itching and this and that, being red and whatnot. Like, I finally had something to call it. And I told my husband, I'm like, I think it's this. I really do think it's this. And he was like, okay, if you think it is. And I'm like, so I started doing more research on what topical steroid withdrawal is. So, yeah, since then, I've been just kind of like, I guess that's it. There's more to the story, but I.

[Becky]

Definitely have more, deeper questions. But I'm trying to think of how to put into words, to put into, like, a visual for people that aren't going. Not even to watch, like, on YouTube, but to understand how severe your skin was.

[Fatima]

It.

[Becky]

I don't even know. Like, I don't think that. Laura, you have seen pictures of how bad her skin was.

[Doug]

It's like, Leah showed me her Instagram before.

[Becky]

Did she?

[Doug]

You were documenting it. You said, yeah, yeah, maybe check you out.

[Becky]

Yeah. So we'll link her Instagram because it's. It, like, even, like, saying it doesn't really do justice to, like, the, like, House. Of how severe your skin had gotten from the withdraw.

[Fatima]

Right.

[Becky]

You know, afterwards.

[Doug]

Right.

[Becky]

Yeah. And I just want to make sure that point is. Is made so people check that out.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

I want to go back.

[Fatima]

Okay.

[Becky]

I want to dive a little bit deeper into the, like, the emotion they. Like the emotional struggle that you had to overcome through those hard times. Because I know. I mean, I know it's, like, a really tough subject for you, but I think it's important for people to understand that. That aspect of it as well, you know, like, what. What was the hardest thing emotionally for you?

[Fatima]

The hardest thing was. I just felt really alone.

[Becky]

It's okay.

[Fatima]

Very emotional. And like I said, I don't really talk about it out loud a lot. Like, I write a lot about it on Instagram, but I just felt really alone. And, like, even though I had my husband there who was watching me go through it, and my mom who's grown up watching me go through eczema, like, I just felt alone because I knew that there was something going on, and it wasn't that. It wasn't that. And I felt crazy half the time because, you know, everyone's like, oh, it'll get better. Just use this cream. Did you try this cream? Did you? Yes, yes, yes. How many times do I have to tell you? I've used every single thing known to man, every cream. I've spent countless money on stuff like that. But I just felt really alone and scared Because I was like, no one understands, like, you know, this, and I don't know if anyone's ever going to understand because I didn't think anyone was going through this. So I felt so alone and, like, borderline depressed. If I didn't have my son who got me up out of bed every day, I probably would have laid in bed all day and just cried because I didn't know what to do. Like, I couldn't control the itch. There was no amount of Benadryl or Benadryl cream that I could put. I. I can't slather Benadryl cream all over my body. Like, I just can't. They're this big, the tube. And, like, I would just lay there and cry if I didn't have my son to get me up every day. And, like, it. It was a struggle to get up and. Because it was very, very painful to, like, move. Everything hurt. It was like all the things happening to your skin at once. Like, you're dry, you're raw, you're oozing, you're peeling. It's like, get up, get your shit together real quick and do your day. Like, I had to. Like, I had no choice. No one else was gonna come and watch him for me because I was, you know, not feeling good. So, I mean, I was. I'm grateful for him. Like, I'm. I know there's reasons why I had him, and I think that was a huge part. Like, he was a huge part of my healing. But, yeah, just super alone and just scared a lot of the times, because, like, I just thought I was. This was going to be my life forever. Like, forever. I'm just going to be this peeling monster, walking around, trying to take care of this awesome baby. And, like, he never looked at me any different. And, like, the love in his eyes literally just was, like, just get me going. Little dude's so cool. I love him. I love him so much. But, yeah, just scared and alone. And I hated that feeling. But once I started finding a little bit more about it and posting more stuff on Instagram and finding more people like me, it. I'll say it 1500 times, like, my Instagram account saved my life.

[Becky]

I think that was gonna be my next question is asking more about it.

[Fatima]

It really did. And, like, the amount of support the community has, the topical steroid withdrawal community on Instagram, like, it's insane. I'll post one picture, and everyone's like, you got this. You know, just keep going. Because what happens with the red skin syndrome and the Topical steroid. With going through topical steroid withdrawal, you just have to kind of go through it. You have to, like, just not use any more steroids. You can use other people, try to manage it with certain things and whatever works for them, works for them. And, you know, that's great as long as you've come off the steroid. It takes about five to five months to about five years to recover, depending on how frequently and how long you were using the steroids. So I knew I was just like, I just have to go through it. Like, just get through it. So everyone kept saying that, just keep going, just keep going. You're doing great. You know, every day you're looking better, so just keep going. And I just kept that in my head. Okay, I'm gonna keep going. And I was so, like, glued to my Instagram account because I would follow other people and their stories and some people would be like, at the same point in me. Or other people would be, like, pretty much healed, like 90% healed, but still had some symptoms. And, you know, it was just very, like, uplifting to know, like, I know I'm gonna be okay one day. You know, I just have to go through it. I have to go through the worst part of it because it looked pretty scary. Once I figured out what it was and how people were healing and some of the, Some of the pictures, oh, my God. Some of the people, like, my, it was bad. And I say, because that was my experience, I had it bad. But to see some of the other people, like, bleeding and peeling, it's so scary. And you're like, oh, my God, I hope that's not going to be me. But if it's going to be me and I'm going to get better, I'm all for it. But it was so scary just to see other people's stories and how bad it really can get. If some people have been on topical steroids for, like, 20 plus years, you know, wow.

[Doug]

So imagine like the come down, come down.

[Fatima]

Well, yeah, the withdrawal could be a lot worse and it's a lot longer. So I'm grateful to not have been on it for so long. But I was on one of the. I think it's the most potent topical steroid like that is available, at least in the US So that's why I had, like, this giant tube. And like, I remember looking back on it and it was, like, squeezed out. It's like, you know, I got to withdraw this crap. Like, I'm ready.

[Becky]

It's interesting that that's not like, Something that they bring up as being like a. Like, if you take these, there is a chance of you going through withdrawal.

[Fatima]

And that's the problem.

[Doug]

Doctor said he didn't even really believe that.

[Fatima]

That was exactly. That is the common thing. You'll hear through everyone's stories. Like, they'll go to so many doctors and they're like, no, I don't know what this topical steroid is. Whatever thing you're talking about, red skin syndrome, like, it's not a thing. And like, you'll hear other people say their doctors are like, no, no, no. It's, you know, they'll just keep offering steroids and it's a conspiracy with the pharmacy. I believe it. I believe it. I'm a nurse. I, you know, and like, like I said, I'm a nurse. So I administer IV steroids to people and they always say, like, you know, we can't be on this too long. You have to come off of it quickly. And we have to taper you off of it because if you stop it, you can have like rebound effects, you know, with whatever you're using it for. So I'm like, okay, so if we're using it for such a short amount of time, like with these kind of medications, how come it's allowed to apply it onto your skin, your largest organ on your body? For 20 years, I've heard people just, you know, from the day they were born until, like, they finally find out. Like, that is insane. It's insane to like even think that is allowed.

[Doug]

I think there's a business reason why they don't disclose.

[Fatima]

It has to be something, you know, but like, that's why a lot of us are really trying to push our stories out there. And like, wearing a shirt. This is called Preventable. It's one of the people I follow on Instagram, she actually made this documentary called Preventable and it's protecting our largest organ. It's really just trying to get the information out there. She did a lot of researching. She's been to. She went over to Japan and looked at a certain. This one doctor in Japan has this kind of healing process that he does with, you know, his patients over there. And she interviewed him. It was just like a really nice, well put together documentary. And it's really just about, like wanting to get our voices heard and reformed for the, the administration of this medication and just kind of understanding, like, topical steroids, you can use them. Because not everyone's going to go through topical steroid withdrawal. Not everyone does, but some people do. And that just needs to be like, a warning label, like a, you know, a serious side of an adverse effect of the medication. It's not really listed on there, but that's really why a lot of people are trying to get the word out there and share their story and, you know, push for that reform for the medication.

[Becky]

Yeah. I want to bring back just. You were just talking about social media, and I want to make it a point to know. I mean, it's something that we advocate for as well. So, you know, social media can be such, like, a dark place. Place for a lot of people. They go to f. Like, it can be demeaning, it can be cruel. It can be a very toxic environment. But we try to make it known that social media can also be a very good thing.

[Fatima]

Oh, yeah.

[Becky]

You know, even what we do here is exactly everything that you said is. Is bringing people's stories to light so that others don't feel alone that are going through something similar.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

And there are so many people that have these stories, and I was just talking to one of the guests that we had on. I'm not gonna say who it was, because I don't know if they're gonna be before or after this, but they didn't think that their story was, like, valid. Validified enough to share it with people. Like, people wouldn't care about their stories. And I was just like. I'm like, you have a story. Like, yeah. You have something that you went through, and people need you to tell it.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Like, people need you to hear it. Sure. And I don't know if you've realized it yet or. Or not, but I'm sure by you sharing your story publicly on social media, that it helped a lot more people than. Than you're even aware of.

[Fatima]

I've gotten some people that message me, and they're like, wow, I didn't think this was a thing. Or, you know, I'm glad you shared this. Or I came across your page and, like, thank you for sharing this. Like, your story inspires you or inspires them.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Fatima]

And it's really nice to hear because that's what I needed. I needed that. I didn't have anyone to tell me, like, it's gonna be okay. Like, you know, like I said, I felt so lost.

[Becky]

Like, someone that went through it.

[Fatima]

Yeah. And, like, I didn't know what was going on. And when someone finally reached out to me and I saw these people, like, it was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna be fine.

[Becky]

You felt like you were a part of like, almost like a community.

[Fatima]

I feel like I've made so many like, friends friends, like through Instagram. Like, we message each other, like, how you doing? You know, like this one girl, she'll always message me and be like, I started picking my face. It was like an hour today. And I'm like, it's fine. I'm like, allow yourself to do it.

[Becky]

You know, this is what we were talking about before, like having like a sponsor.

[Doug]

Exactly, exactly.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It's a two way street. You've helped them.

[Fatima]

Exactly.

[Doug]

Really as a community.

[Fatima]

And it's, it's nice to, you know, you post things and people are like, oh yeah, that was me today. And you're like, oh, yeah. Topical serum withdrawal, you know, so it's like, it's really nice. But I, I never would have said it before going through this. I remember I actually stopped using my Facebook account because I was just seeing so many things on there and I'm like, I can't, I can't do this. Like, I just need to focus on, focus on just like one thing, you know, just lift it up a little bit.

[Becky]

Oh, wrong way. Other way. Yeah, there you go.

[Fatima]

Okay. So once I stopped that and I was just more focused on my Instagram account, then the whole thing started. But, you know, just, it was, it.

[Becky]

Was really like, social media is incredible. It's the biggest community that there is in this entire world. And to have at your fingertips the ability to find other people that have similar stories that can help you get through a struggle, that's an incredible thing.

[Fatima]

Right.

[Becky]

You know, and if we focused more on that, then it would be a.

[Doug]

Little bit of research for a talk that we'd go given out of college and literally half of the world is on social media.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like three point something billion people. That's a wild.

[Fatima]

Yeah. I mean, I've connected with not just people in the US but mostly in the UK and a lot of other countries, you know, so that's. And you feel like they're here with you, you know, like in my little phone, my friends are here to talk me through my day and, you know, get me going, you know? You know, now I feel like I'm doing that for other people. So once people started reaching out and like, it's fulfilling almost and it kind of, it's more positive and a lot of people posted like, about positivity and this and that. So, like, I learned to, you know, kind of change my way of thinking about it. And like, sometimes it can be a little Dark. And some people are, you know, it's hard. It's really hard to go through the withdrawal. And like, some people just feel like even with the community in the positivity everyone's sharing, they still feel like they're never gonna get through it. Because when you're in it, you know, they say, just keep going, but you're like, but how much further do I have to go? So some people feel so lost, but I changed my ways of thinking. Like, I just feel like I'm more of a positive person now because of it and because other people share a lot of stuff. And I started following that thing, and I started following this thing. And it was more about, like, just being in the moment and being okay with what you're going through. And I think that's what helped me really heal was, you know, just changing my thought process and following all these other things that were so inspiring and positive that was on a social media, you know. And like, now I just pieces this moment right now sitting here talking with you guys. And I'm happy with this and I'm okay. Life is good. Despite everything I've gone through, I know I'm gonna get better. And I think once I finally admitted that I was okay with going through this process and knowing that I'm going to be okay, despite what my body and my face and everything that's going on, that's hurting, burning, whatever is bleeding right now, it's gonna stop one day. And I feel like that really turned my healing around. Cause I just believed in myself. And I just kept telling myself every day, like, you got this. You're gonna have a great day. Like, skin, you're fucking doing awesome. Like, you're doing, like, my body constantly. All our bodies are constantly working for us every day. Like, always just doing what it's supposed to do. And you don't. You're not aware of it, but once you become more aware of it, you're, like, more appreciative. Like, holy shit. Like, I didn't do anything. No drugs. Like, I stopped using any kind of moisturizer because I went through. I started doing moisturizer withdrawal, where you stop using, like, any kind of ointments or creams and you kind of cold turkey.

[Doug]

Got the same time.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Nothing at all.

[Fatima]

Well, at one point, once I started doing my research about tsw, I saw a lot of people were going through a moisturizer withdrawal, and they said they had, like, their healing time. Had, like, it went a lot faster from withholding from just moisturizer. Some people go through NMT or no moisture therapy where they actually do moisturizer withdrawal. So no creams or anything like that, but they actually limit their intake of fluids. They don't really shower as often. And exercising is really good because it's getting all that stuff out of you. And I didn't go that severe because I was on, like, a fruit and veggie diet, so consuming all liquids pretty much, you know, So I was like, I'll just do the moisturizer withdrawal. And that's when my skin went from, like, super beet, red tomato, as my boss would call me, to just dry, dry. Oh, God, it would dry up so much. I couldn't even move my face, like, to smile. Like, it would hur. Because my skin would crack. I couldn't even turn my neck because my neck was so dry. And then I'd be really red and raw again. And, like, it was just a vicious cycle.

[Doug]

What's the lesser of two evils?

[Fatima]

I don't know. I don't know if there is one. The dry phase, because I know that I'm coming down from a flare, so I know my body's healing. I get really super itchy at that time. Like, I just want to scratch. And, like, I'm literally sitting in a pile of flare skin flakes, as gross as that is. But that's what happens. And. But that's the best part because, you know, I'm healing. I went through another flare, and I just keep telling myself, I'm like, all right, I'm ready for the next one. Because the more I flare, I feel like the more I'm getting this stuff out of my body, you know, so. Because it's coming out through my skin, you know, where else is it going to go other than the normal ways it's going to come out? Right.

[Doug]

It's not. And it's not gross.

[Fatima]

Like, I think that there's. Yeah.

[Doug]

Unfortunately, a stigma here that I hope, you know, would not exist, but, you know, it does. And, you know, earlier when you. I wanted to circle back to this anyway, so maybe this is a good segue.

[Fatima]

You.

[Doug]

You kept saying that you were scared, that you and you felt alone. And I wanted to know if that was more because you were worried about the permanence of your condition or because you were worried about people's perception of your condition.

[Fatima]

Probably both. Okay. Ingle parts. Yeah. I think I was like, crap, this is gonna be me forever. And then, like, to even go out anywhere, because my husband goes to work every day, and it's just me, and someone has to go to the food store to go food shopping. So I would sit there in the car and kind of just like, okay, give myself pep talk. It would take me, like, 15, 20 minutes to get out of the car, and my son is in the back screaming, like, come on.

[Doug]

What the.

[Fatima]

We've been here for 20 minutes. Like, get it going, ladies. So I'm like, all right. So I stopped, like, looking in mirrors. I just wouldn't look at myself. I didn't want to, because I was like, if I do, it's just gonna. I don't want to see it. It's. That was mostly if I needed to go somewhere. Like, if I had to go to the store, I wouldn't look in any of the mirrors in the car. Like, I would just get out and go and do my thing. And, like, in the beginning, it was really rough because I'm like, I know people are gonna look at me. I know it. And I don't know, at the time, I was. I was worried about what people were thinking. But like I said, I kind of just changed my thought process. And, like, I would go into the store and be like, I would fucking look too. You know, I don't know what that is. And I'm gonna be curious. It's natural to be curious. To see someone that looks like the way I did, to just look real quick and be like, oh, I wonder what that's about. They're probably gonna forget about you the second they get in their car. And that's the kind of thinking I had to keep reminding myself. I'm like, people are curious. They're gonna be curious. Let them be curious. They're never gonna follow you home and, like, you know, stalk your life for the rest of your life. And being like, why do you look like that?

[Doug]

Why do you look right? No, you're absolutely right.

[Fatima]

I was like, okay, just. Just go in the store. Get your knee and get out. And I always survived, and I always made it back to the car, and I was always okay. So I was like, all right, until next time.

[Doug]

So I think this is so okay.

[Fatima]

This.

[Doug]

This is really important because I don't think that people realize, like, the. The emotional damage that this can do to a person, right? Because unless you've had skin problems, you don't quite get it.

[Fatima]

Right? And.

[Doug]

And I think this is a bigger message because it's not just for somebody. I mean, you're. You're. And this is not to suggest that I understand what you went through at all but growing up, I had what I would consider severe acne. It probably wasn't, but I was on every topical medication that they would prescribe me. Accutane eventually. And it totally fucked with my mind.

[Fatima]

Oh yeah.

[Doug]

And you reach a point where you're just like, why am I doing all of this? Like, why am I caking on makeup and afraid to leave the house? And you know, like, so. So there's a spectrum here of people who are worried about their perception. And you just hit on such a good point. No one is going to remember, right? We scrutinize ourselves a hundredfold. Oh yeah. Nobody's looking at us under the same microscope that we're looking at ourselves. I think it's just we have to be kinder to ourselves.

[Fatima]

We do. I know. It's like, I think of this going through the withdrawal. It's not just withdrawal of my skin. It's just withdrawal of everything that I've thought about myself for years. Like, before I had, yeah, I had eczema here and there. But before it was my skin, it was just my head just telling me, like, you're not good enough, you know, like, you're not pretty enough and you, you know, you're not good at this. They're better than you. And, you know, and so going through this really changed my perception of just myself. And I've, I've said it to my husband. I'm like, I've never looked at myself in the mirror this way before. And he's like, what do you mean? Because I remember at one point I was just in the bathroom crying and he came and he just kind of like, it's okay, you're going to be fine. You know, gave me a hug and I'm just like, I, I was so, like, I hated the way I looked and I knew, you know, there's times you're still like, shit, I have to do this again, like, because it just felt never ending at the time. But now I just, I look at myself so differently in the mirror. I feel like I stand like 5 inches taller than I am and like, I just feel like proud to be who I am because I feel like I've gone through not just a physical change, but a really big emotional change too.

[Becky]

So you can tell too? Yeah, you can absolutely tell. It's like, like when you walk into a room and like, I, I don't really like mentioning that. Like, so I, I know I call her fatty. I know Fatty from college. We're a part of a very close knit friend Group. So we spend two to three, maybe even four times a year we all get together. But you can tell like when you walk into a room now, it's like the room is yours. You know what I mean? It's not, it's not like, it's not like you're hiding behind like a mask anymore. It's like you walk in and it's like, here I am like, and this is, and that's amazing. Like, yeah. And to like hear just like everything that you had to overcome to like get to that point, it's like, and even you know, following you on social media, your poor, your posts like inspire me. Like you'll post stuff and a lot of things. Like I'll even repost because I'm like, damn, like I needed to hear this. And like it's, it's a ripple effect. Like your life is a thousand percent affecting other people's life positively. And like I, I'm so appreciative of like you, the person you are, the person that you've honestly become. Because the effect that you're going to have on this world is incredible.

[Fatima]

That means a lot. It really does mean a lot. And to know someone that has seen me before this and then kind of like I guess on the other side, like, you know, I mean, I'm not there yet, but I've definitely changed. I've definitely changed. And like I feel good every day. And like, even though I'm super itchy some days because like I'm. I would consider myself about like 75% healed in my head, I still have flare ups like every day. Like my skin really hasn't had a break in like two years. You know, I constantly flaring and peeling here and there, but my piles of skin have gotten less and less and you know, I'm actually able to sleep in my bed now. I was sleeping on the couch for a few months. Like that killed me a little bit because I remember for like two or three months I was sleeping on the couch at home, but not even laying on the couch. Like couldn't sleep on the couch. I would like this.

[Doug]

That's so sad.

[Fatima]

I wouldn't sleep. I would literally be awake until like 4 o'clock in the morning because I was like kind of distracting myself from not scratching so much and I couldn't really get comfortable and like behind my ears were so oozy all the time and like everything would stick to me. Like my clothes, my blankets, my pillows, my sheets would be all messed up. I'm like, I'm gonna go sleep on the couch. And that. That first night. And then, like, it was fine after that. And then it was like, a couple months later, like, my husband was, like, going upstairs and he's bringing the babies, like, good night, whatever. And I'm like, this sucks. I'm here alone. And here I am again feeling alone, you know? And, like, that was kind of like, in the pit of it, where before I kind of felt okay with it. I just was like, now I'm going to sleep alone. It makes me sad, though, because I actually follow some people and some people will post on Facebook, like, their support groups and stuff about, like, this one girl recently posted how her boyfriend left her or her fiance. I don't even know. Their significant other left because they couldn't just deal with it. They couldn't handle it. And I'm so blessed and so lucky to have my husband who really, from day one, never looked at me different. And I remember the one day I was. We were going to Atlantic City for my mom's birthday, and I finally felt, like, okay, and, like, I still had, like, dry patches, but I wasn't as red. I'm, like, going to Atlantic City. My hair was starting to grow back because I had lost a lot of hair in the front, and I was, like, confident. It was the first time I didn't wear a headband out in public. And I was like, I'm okay. But my husband never looked at me any different, and I was like, I feel normal. He's like, you always looked normal. You always looked fine. Like, what do you like? He saw all past that, and I'm so blessed to have such a support person. And, like, he. He's like my silent rock, I call him, because he doesn't really always know what to say or do, so he'll just kind of, like, pat my leg. Shout out to Doug, yeah, Dougie, he's good. He's a good man. And, like, he's just. Was always just very supportive and never, like, gave me any inkling that I looked weird at all. He would never, like, look at me any kind of weird way. He would just look at me like I was me, and I needed that, and I needed that reassurance. Like, sometimes. Sometimes I wish he would have been like, oh, babe, you're so perfect. I love you. But that's not Doug. And I know that. But, you know, he's never left my side. Like, he didn't leave me. He didn't think about leaving me. And, like, that reassured me in my head, I'M like, see, people do love you, so stop. Get out of your head sometimes. So I'm so grateful to have him and my baby and all my family that kind of were like, you'll be fine. And once. I like my mom, she's funny. She still thinks it's like eczema. And she's like, did you change your detergent? Did you try this? Did you? Yes, Mom. It's not that. It's don't kiss the dog in your skin. I'm like, oh, she's hypoallergenic.

[Becky]

She's fine.

[Fatima]

But that's my mom wanting me the best for me and trying to, like, you know, try everything she can to make me well. And I'm like, but I'm getting there. And she actually commented on one of my pictures and she was like, look what you did. No steroids, no creams, no nothing. All natural. Go you. You go, girl. You keep going. I'm like, I love you. She's so silly. But, you know, it's. That's a huge thing to have other than, you know, just a support system. Like I did initially on Instagram or on Instagram and the TSW community. So huge. Like, that's why I don't get it. Like, there's so many people so affected by this. So many people. And like, the fact that no one really knows about it is, is why there's still many people. And I follow this one guy in California. He got topical steroid withdrawal from using over the counter creams. Not, like strong stuff that I was using. He had a small patch on his leg, used it a couple times, doctor told him to, and it kept getting bigger and bigger. And then it started going other places and he kept putting it on, putting it on. And finally he figured out that it was topical steroid or red skin syndrome that he had and went through the withdrawal. And he's going through a pretty bad withdrawal. You know, he's a very positive person. I love following people that are just like, every day their skin's falling off, they're like, hey, what's up, guys? Like, look what I'm doing today. I'm like, okay, I can do this. So it's really nice how.

[Doug]

And I don't know if this is a silly question or if it's answerable, but how many people within the TSW community that you are part of were on topical steroids because of eczema? The mass majority?

[Fatima]

I think so.

[Doug]

Okay, so it's not like people who have acne or people who have Psoriasis.

[Fatima]

I think it was mostly just people, at least that I know of, people that had like flare ups. The one girl I'm I talk to a lot from her pregnancy, that's how she got through. Started on the steroids and a lot of people, it was mostly eczema or psoriasis and anything that needed like. But mostly eczema.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Fatima]

That I, at least I'm aware of. I don't. Not a lot of people. Not everyone will kind of share their backstory. Some people do, you know, if they're new to the, you know, the community, they'll be like, hey, I'm this person. I'm 23. This is how I got through it. And I'm like, okay, I was just.

[Doug]

Wondering what else doctors are prescribing topical designs for.

[Fatima]

I guess, whatever, I don't know. But from what I know, just mostly eczema that I'm aware of, you know.

[Becky]

But so what we like to do at the end is we ask our viewers and listeners to ask some questions for you.

[Fatima]

Okay.

[Becky]

So we'll ask like two or three, depending on how long the answers are. But they're, they're rather simple.

[Doug]

We had quite a few. I like two. Two of them. Not, not the second one. Not that you can see what I'm looking at. So that was a really dumb clarification. Okay, so I'm gonna ask this one first because I think the second one probably makes sense as the follow up. Okay. Someone wrote, how does it affect your self esteem? It's been a struggle for me and I know we kind of talked about that, but I feel like we didn't really elaborate on that. So if like maybe you have a.

[Fatima]

Story or how did like in the beginning or, or just in general, I'd.

[Becky]

Give a little preview or overview of then and now.

[Fatima]

Okay. Well, my self esteem was always pretty shitty, I would say, if I'm being honest. Like I didn't like myself very much, you know, and going through this, it really put a damper on that. And I think that's why I felt almost like really depressed because I was like, you know, now this, you know, I don't like anything else about myself now. It's like everything on, like that's visual that everyone can see now they're gonna not like me too. But, but like I said, just really changing my mindset and just trying to be more for myself and just understanding more of myself. And you know, it's weird, like it's a topical thing that I'm going through. But it's more deep now. Like, you know, I read a lot of self help books and like there's one girl, her name's Camille Knowles on Instagram, she wrote a book called the Beauty of Eczema and I read that and that was really a life changer for me because her story really resonated with me and her self esteem was the same. Like she's a beautiful girl, you know, and went through, you know, her severe eczema and her self esteem was down. She didn't want to be near anyone and I didn't want to be near anyone. I was like, I had to go to work eventually, you know, but and make it work. And it was just really nice to see how she changed her life. Just being more positive. So just really giving yourself like a pat on the back sometimes and just say like you're doing okay.

[Becky]

You know, One thing I do I, I want to interject with is you've, you've said it a couple times throughout the time that we have talked about. It's making a choice. And I think that's so important for people to understand that. And I know people don't always like hearing this, but whatever you're going through, it is a choice to change the way that you see it. Yeah, you can't change. You might not be able to change the situation or change what is happening, but it is a hundred percent a choice of how you react and that is applicable to every single thing in life. And I don't want to go too far off track, but a lot of the reason of who I am today is because of the bad things that happened to me and me choosing to use them in a positive way and choosing positive attitude over anything else. And we talked a lot about that with Mark when, or June when he came on. It's a choice and we had. And it's not always easy, right? It's. And sometimes waking up even now, you know, I wake up and I have my off days. But you have to find it in yourself to choose to, to change and to make that difference.

[Fatima]

It's hard.

[Becky]

It's so hard.

[Fatima]

It's hard especially you know, going through anything you're going through that you feel like you're never going to get out of this. Like you're just like this is because it's such, it's that moment right then and there, you don't know what the future holds and you already know what you've been through. But like that moment you just feel like this is it, you know, but it's not.

[Becky]

And it's. And it's so much easier to just let yourself think negatively. Like, it's just so much easier to be like, I wonder. My life sucks.

[Fatima]

You know that?

[Becky]

And it's so easy to feel, like.

[Fatima]

So easy to just be down on yourself all the time. Like, I don't know why that.

[Becky]

And it's such a conscious, like it's. It's almost like that's your natural reaction.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

And it's such a conscious choice to be better.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Right.

[Doug]

Do you think it's easier to succumb to misery than it is?

[Becky]

Yeah, I think.

[Fatima]

I think that's why once you, like, feel good about yourself, you really just feel good about yourself. Because then you look back and you're like, I made it through that. Like, and I'm better. And I'm so much better. Like, you know, so much better, like, mentally and physically and like, you know, I don't know, it's so hard to just really want to just sit in a hole and do nothing and, you know, really just hate life. But you have to just look at everything positively. I don't know. I tell myself every day, you're gonna have a good day. Okay, we're gonna do this. I take three deep breaths and I go through and I do my thing, you know.

[Doug]

Sure. That's your morning ritual?

[Fatima]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, now it includes. It's like a lot of yoga and meditating and stuff like that. Yeah, I never did any of that. I was always very religious and I prayed a lot, but I never like meditated, sat there and just gave time to myself. And I think we give so much of ourselves that we don't give ourselves like a minute to just be on our own heads and feel our own bodies and just be okay, you know, with ourselves.

[Doug]

I'm big on prayer, but I think that there is a delineation between meditation.

[Fatima]

Definitely.

[Doug]

Prayer is sort of like you're giving yourself to God.

[Fatima]

Yes.

[Doug]

Meditation is like you're giving yourself to yourself.

[Fatima]

Right, right.

[Doug]

I think it's good that you've.

[Becky]

You do both.

[Fatima]

Yeah, I do both. And it's just really nice to have five minutes of like, quiet, you know, meditating doesn't have to be hours long. You could sit for five minutes and just, you know, keep calm in your head. Don't think of anything. Just relax and you feel so good afterwards. It's weird. It's weird.

[Doug]

All right, so actually you answered number two before I could ask it. The follow up to that was just what tips have helped you with mental health while dealing with skin problems. You know, you mentioned the author, but if you have anything to add to.

[Fatima]

It, go for it. No, but that book really helped. It just really resonated with me. And I follow her, and she's very positive and bubbly, and I'm like, I need to be this. I need to be positive, bubbly. I want to be beautiful like her, even though I am beautiful. Tell myself that.

[Becky]

But it almost feels forced sometimes. Yeah, but. And. And that's okay. Like, sometimes you have to force yourself to be positive because that's the only way that it's going to become a natural routine you have. It's even. And I say this a lot with. With communication. You know, get gaining a good communication with someone. It's gonna feel forced in the beginning.

[Fatima]

If you don't have that exact.

[Becky]

It's gonna be a feel of forced conversation. The same thing with being positive. You might feel like you aren't being true to yourself because you're trying to be overly positive, but it becomes a natural thing after that. Forced.

[Fatima]

That.

[Doug]

That's a very good point.

[Fatima]

It's actually very true because in the very beginning, my really good friend Shannon, she changed her life and was really doing a lot of positive things and just trying to deal with any emotional baggage she had. And, like, dealing with it, she's changed her life. And following that, at first, I'm like. I feel like I'm just copying her. Like, I'm just copying somebody's like, you know, instructions, do this, do that, do this. But the more I did it, the more good I felt. And, like, I just. It just now just flows out of me. I think. I think it annoys my husband a little bit. Everything's gonna be fine. Everything's always okay. So now he's like, it's gonna be fine, right? I'm like, yes, it is.

[Doug]

But it works, right? Like, it's a choice, and then it's a habit, and then it's second nature.

[Fatima]

And then suddenly it's you. Yeah, pretty much.

[Becky]

Yeah. And you have to get. And a lot of people don't get through that, like, awkward, forced nature of it, which you have to.

[Fatima]

Yeah. Like, anything you said, nothing comes. You got to start somewhere.

[Doug]

I don't think anything worthwhile comes.

[Becky]

Very easy.

[Fatima]

Pretty much, right? Yeah.

[Doug]

Easily.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Absolutely not. So, unfortunately, we are out of time. But the final, final thing that we do at the end is always ask for a last word of advice. If, you know, there's a message you want to send out if whatever you want to say that you feel like you need to say.

[Fatima]

All right, well, you can think about.

[Becky]

It for a second if you want.

[Fatima]

Well, I just feel like a lot of people need to, you know, just. It's hard, like I said, just to be okay with yourself. Just be okay with who you are in this moment and just know that you're alive, you're breathing, you know? And people ask me, like, why are you so happy all the time? I'm like, because I'm here. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't making those conscious choices like we talk about, too. Just be more positive. And, you know, I don't think I ever would have done anything to myself, but I don't think I would have been here mentally. I would have been still lost and confused had I not reached out. Just, you know, be an advocate for yourself. If you know something's not going right, you know, reach out to people, get help. Ask for help. Just ask. Because the moment you ask, someone's gonna answer your question. If it's not the right thing at first, it eventually is. Like, I asked so many people until I finally really asked, and I put pictures out there and put my story out there and was like, I need help, because if I don't get help now, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I found the help, and now I'm helping myself. And I don't know, I just think people really advocate for yourself. Love yourself and just, you know, be yourself. Be you. Just love yourself.

[Becky]

I love that.

[Doug]

I love that a lot.

[Becky]

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. You did amazing. And I am so thankful for you coming out here and, you know, talking to us. I think. And I think this every single time. And I'm so thankful for everything that I'm doing or we're doing with all this. But I think your story is going to help a lot of people. And I'm so grateful to have this platform to share with people I know, with people I don't know, with everyone, just to, you know, get your story out there, because it deserves to be heard. And there's so many people that you deserve to help that. That don't know they. They need the help yet.

[Fatima]

So I appreciate this, too. I remember when you first started saying you're going to do something like this. I'm like, that sounds really cool. Yeah, like, really cool. And here I am, weird. I had a short. A story to share.

[Becky]

But every. Every single person, everyone has a story to share. It's so true. Laura, do you have any final.

[Doug]

I just. I really loved everything you said, and I. I think that you. Without saying this explicitly, what it. What my takeaway from this was is that it's more than just sort of choosing to stay. It's choosing to live happily.

[Fatima]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And I think.

[Fatima]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

That's the second step that people don't tend to.

[Fatima]

I like that.

[Doug]

Well, you said it.

[Fatima]

I did, but it's true. And I. Yeah.

[Doug]

So thank you.

[Fatima]

Yeah, thank you, too.

[Becky]

Thank you. All right, guys, thank you for another great week of listening. If you're not doing so already, please make sure to follow, like, subscribe, share platform with whoever you can. You know, another person that you share this with could be another person that we help. If you have a story that you want to share with us, please reach out. We're always doing new stuff, so thanks for joining our journey. Thank you. All right, guys, have a good day. Night. Whenever you're listening or watching.

[Laura]

For the haters. For the haters. Come on, do it now or later. It don't matter what your name is. Share your story. We'll be waiting for the haters.