Goals For 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
Episode: Goals For 2025
Release Date: December 30, 2024

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

In the "Goals For 2025" episode of Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter, the hosts dive deep into their personal and professional aspirations for the upcoming year. Released on December 30, 2024, this episode offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the lives of Kail and Becky as they navigate their 30s, balancing friendship, family, and personal growth.

---

2. Announcement of “For the Haters” Bonus Episodes

Kail excitedly introduces a new segment titled “For the Haters”, set to launch in January. This series will feature bonus episodes uploaded weekly to the Karma & Chaos feed, allowing fans to access additional content.

Kail Lowry (00:27):
"For the haters will be starting to drop on Karma and chaos feed as bonus episodes. So if you are subscribed to the show Karma and Chaos, if you're listening to this, I hope you're subscribed. For the haters will be dropping once a week starting in January, which is really exciting."

Becky adds that they will be releasing older episodes, giving them a chance to revisit past discussions and gauge listener interest for potential sequels.

Becky Hayter (01:04):
"I'm gonna have to listen to as the week when they come out during the week because I might say some off the wall stuff about my life that is not relevant anymore."

This initiative aims to re-engage their audience and expand their content offerings.

---

3. Personal Stories and Anecdotes

Shortly after the announcement, Kail and Becky share personal anecdotes that set the tone for their candid and relatable conversation style. Becky's house experiences a plumbing emergency, leading to a minor flood, which they discuss humorously while reflecting on the challenges of homeownership.

Becky Hayter (04:13):
"Our basement was starting to flood."

Kail Lowry (06:32):
"We've got it. Gene, Leah's dad, came over and fixed everything. He was a saint."

These stories not only provide entertainment but also highlight the unpredictability of life, aligning with the podcast's theme of balancing karma and chaos.

---

4. Setting Goals for 2025

a. Kail's Goals

Kail shares her personal goals aimed at self-discovery and identity maintenance outside of her role as a mother.

Kail Lowry (08:22):
"In 2025, I want to develop a deeper sense of who Kail is. What do I like to do? What drives me, what motivates me, what makes me tick."

She emphasizes the importance of finding her own identity and personal style, moving away from adopting traits influenced by others.

Kail Lowry (18:48):
"I have a blog on my website, which is I do. And also you can watch the full video episodes on my Patreon patreon.com/kaillowry and that's it. Happy holidays. Happy new year."

Her professional goals focus on expanding the podcast's reach and diversifying content:

• Community Growth: "Continue to grow our community of like-minded individuals."
• Merchandise Launch: "Launch merch, build more brand awareness."
• Content Expansion: "More personal content with you outside of, like, the podcast."

Kail aims to create more dynamic content, potentially incorporating vlog-style segments to showcase her and Becky's friendship beyond the podcast format.

b. Becky's Goals

Becky outlines her personal goals, concentrating on emotional regulation and personal growth:

Becky Hayter (08:22):
"I want to be more intentional with my own personal growth next year. I know that I've been working on a lot of myself and my external relationships."

She acknowledges her tendency towards having a short fuse and her desire to manage feelings of overwhelm to foster a healthier environment for her future child.

Becky Hayter (09:53):
"I need to make sure that I said one of my worst traits... is the minor inconvenience that happens. We are ready to just uproot and throw everything away."

Her professional goals revolve around financial stability and business growth:

• Debt Management: Becky is nearing being debt-free, a significant milestone after managing credit card debt and loans.
• Side Business Growth: "I did a lot more work in my side business like from marketing consulting and that was really great to help me financially this past year."
• Podcast Expansion: "Secure the growth of this podcast because I think that it just can bring a lot to the world in general."
• Re-launching “For the Haters”: "Hopefully getting that back and its own platform eventually."

Becky emphasizes the importance of financial independence and expanding their podcast's influence.

---

5. Managing Finances and Debt

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing credit card debt and financial management. Becky openly shares her journey from accruing significant debt in her 20s to her current efforts in becoming debt-free.

Becky Hayter (32:12):
"The biggest issue with credit card debt is overspending and not realizing how much money is actually going out."

She details her strategies, such as transferring balances to 0% interest cards and seeking financial coaching from her sister. Becky underscores the importance of budgeting and the challenges of saying no to expenses.

Kail Lowry (35:34):
"But for those listening who, yeah, sort of like you in your 20s, you wouldn't say no and you would just swipe your card is like maybe in 2025, there are listeners who like need to say no in order to pay off their debts."

Becky advises listeners to prioritize debt repayment over social expenses and to seek support systems that align with their financial goals.

Becky Hayter (36:57):
"If you don't have the money at that point to do it, there's no shame in that. Like we're just human beings trying to navigate this life that everything is expensive to do and just find some things that are less expensive."

This candid conversation provides practical advice for listeners facing similar financial struggles, reinforcing the podcast's commitment to real-life issues.

---

6. Identity and Personal Growth

The hosts delve into discussions about personal identity, self-awareness, and the challenges of maintaining individuality within relationships.

Kaila Lowry (19:54):
"I want to develop, like, my personal style a little more. I feel like so often... I take traits and qualities from people around me, make them my own identity, because I don't know who I am."

Becky acknowledges her own struggles with self-identity and the impact of traits passed down through her family.

Becky Hayter (12:10):
"I need to make sure that I said one of my worst traits... is the minor inconvenience that happens... It's a really bad trait. It's something I've worked really hard to get."

This segment highlights the importance of self-development and maintaining one's identity amidst external influences.

---

7. Relationships and Infidelity

Kaila and Becky engage in a thought-provoking discussion about infidelity in relationships, questioning its inevitability and exploring different perspectives.

Kaila Lowry (40:30):
"If you caught your best friend's partner cheating and they offered you a million dollars to keep your mouth shut, would you?"

Becky responds by emphasizing the importance of the relationship's foundation and the nature of the friendship.

Becky Hayter (45:02):
"I think that's fair. I think there probably is some kind of infidelity... it depends on the relationship."

They debate whether long-term relationships are immune to infidelity, with Kail expressing skepticism about relationships lasting decades without any form of cheating.

Kaila Lowry (44:33):
"I cannot imagine a world where you are with somebody for 20, 30, 40, 50 years and you're telling me that you've never had any type of affair."

Becky introduces the concept of emotional versus physical cheating, asserting that emotional cheating can be more damaging.

Becky Hayter (43:37):
"I think emotional cheating is worse than physical cheating."

This nuanced conversation provides listeners with diverse viewpoints on trust, boundaries, and the complexities of human relationships.

---

8. Listener Story and Advice

The episode features a heartfelt listener submission from "Stassi Schroeder," who shares her struggles with supporting a friend trapped in a toxic and abusive relationship.

Stassi's Story (55:25 – 58:18):
Stassi describes her friend's tumultuous relationship characterized by financial dependency, emotional manipulation, and neglect of their child. She seeks advice on maintaining the friendship without compromising her own emotional well-being.

Kaila and Becky respond with empathy and practical advice:

Becky Hayter (58:18):
"I think it's important to first just recognize the compassion and commitment that you've had to your friend... You can set healthier boundaries for yourself."

Kaila Lowry (56:55):
"Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what she does. This friend is... it's not going to change what she does about this relationship."

They emphasize the importance of setting boundaries and self-care, acknowledging the difficulty of supporting someone in such a situation.

Becky Hayter (59:27):
"Life is hard and challenging. Roads aren't always straight. Sometimes we have to kind of veer off and take a pit stop for ourselves."

This segment offers profound support to listeners dealing with similar challenges, reinforcing the podcast's role as a source of guidance and solidarity.

---

9. Pregnancy Announcement and Future Plans

Towards the episode's conclusion, Becky joyfully announces that she and Leah are expecting a baby boy. The revelation is accompanied by lighthearted banter about baby names and the couple's excitement.

Becky Hayter (62:55):
"We thought it was a boy, so we weren't as jump scare shocked. So I'll send you the video because I did just take a video of us finding out. But we're so excited. We're so happy."

Kaila and Becky share their plans for the baby's name, blending personal meaning with cultural significance.

Becky Hayter (66:14):
"The boy's middle name will be Steven. So that's... that was my dad's middle name."

They discuss practical aspects of integrating the new family member into their lives, expressing gratitude for supportive male friends and family.

Becky Hayter (67:03):
"I am so excited that my kid will have such loving men around them, you know?"

This heartfelt announcement adds a personal touch to the episode, celebrating growth and new beginnings.

---

10. Closing Remarks

Kaila and Becky wrap up the episode with motivational messages encouraging listeners to set goals, stay positive, and believe in their journeys.

Kaila Lowry (71:02):
"Just fake it till you make it baby."

Becky Hayter (71:07):
"Fake it till you make it baby."

They provide contact information and promote their social media channels, inviting listeners to engage further.

Becky Hayter (71:26):
"You can find me anywhere on Instagram. TikTok hater25. You can find me on my website beckyhater.com. Make sure to now follow for the haters for updates there at. For the haters... Come along. You do the journey."

Kaila Lowry (72:00):
"Videos and clips of Karma and Chaos are on the Killer Network Instagram. We are also on TikTok under Karma Chaos Podcast. You can email us or write in your [e-mail]."

The episode concludes with warm holiday and New Year wishes, leaving listeners inspired and connected.

---

Notable Quotes

• Kail Lowry (08:22):
  "I want to develop a deeper sense of who Kail is. What do I like to do? What drives me, what motivates me, what makes me tick."

• Becky Hayter (09:04):
  "I really want to try to work on that."

• Kaila Lowry (19:54):
  "I want to develop, like, my personal style a little more."

• Becky Hayter (32:12):
  "The biggest issue with credit card debt is overspending and not realizing how much money is actually going out."

• Becky Hayter (36:57):
  "There's no shame in that. Like we're just human beings trying to navigate this life that everything is expensive to do and just find some things that are less expensive."

• Kaila Lowry (40:30):
  "If you caught your best friend's partner cheating and they offered you a million dollars to keep your mouth shut, would you?"

• Becky Hayter (59:27):
  "Life is hard and challenging. Roads aren't always straight. Sometimes we have to kind of veer off and take a pit stop for ourselves."

• Becky Hayter (71:07):
  "Fake it till you make it baby."

---

Conclusion

In the "Goals For 2025" episode, Karma & Chaos delivers a blend of personal revelations, professional aspirations, practical advice, and heartfelt moments. Kail and Becky’s open discussions about financial struggles, relationship dynamics, and personal identity resonate deeply with listeners navigating similar life stages. The episode not only sets the stage for the future direction of the podcast but also reinforces the hosts' commitment to authenticity and community support.

For those who haven't tuned in yet, this episode epitomizes the essence of Karma & Chaos—a relatable, honest, and supportive space for modern adults facing the unpredictable mix of karma and chaos in their lives.

Transcript

[Becky Hater]

Foreign.

[Kaylory]

Rebecca Renee.

[Becky Hater]

Three, two, one. Good morning, good evening, good night, Good.

[Kaylory]

Morning, good evening, good night.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Oh, like depending on where you are in the world.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. Welcome back to Karma and cast.

[Kaylory]

Yeah, Karma and lots of chaos. What are you doing?

[Becky Hater]

Jumping right into it.

[Kaylory]

Yeah. I love your shirt. For the haters, we have some news regarding. For the haters. For the haters will be starting to drop on Karma and chaos feed as bonus episodes. So if you are subscribed to the show Karma and Chaos, if you're listening to this, I hope you're subscribed. For the haters will be dropping once a week starting in January, which is really exciting.

[Becky Hater]

So, yeah, we're gonna start releasing old episodes that are already out, so keep that in mind. I don't. I'm gonna have to listen to as the week when they come out during the week because I might say some off the wall stuff about my life that is not relevant anymore.

[Kaylory]

Is that you'll be able to gauge interest in people's stories and see who you should have upon for a part two.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, like, yeah, I'll be able to gauge interest about seeing who we can bring back. And then if people are listening, I feel like people can start submitting stories again about if they want to come on. For those that. That might not know. For the haters is something that I started as a passion project back in man. Was it like 2017?

[Kaylory]

No, that far it was 2018. 2018 or 2019, I think.

[Becky Hater]

No, it was definitely 2018 because we did it for two years because I.

[Kaylory]

Had Lux already, so he was 2017. So yeah, 2018 sounds about right.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. And essentially I just wanted to create a space for people to share their stories to help others feel like they were less alone. So it's. Every episode's a different person, Every episode's a different topic. And it's just an interview based podcast with sharing people's stories and, you know, just engaging with our community and helping each other out. It's great. I love it. I'm excited to bring it back.

[Kaylory]

I was just talking to someone on the phone before you and I got on this recording and we were talking about. I told her. I was like, you're not alone. Because she was. We were talking about how we don't want to do anything. Like we don't want to go to the physically go into a store. We don't want physically. Our partners want to go on dates with us. We don't want to go. And I was like, I'm pretty sure this is Depression. But, like, also, you're not alone. You know what I mean? So I was like, this is not. We're going to handle this in 2025.

[Becky Hater]

It's the season. That's what happens. Winter comes, it gets dark. One wants to leave their house.

[Kaylory]

Well, my kids keep asking me why it's dark when they wake up and why is it dark when they get home from school. And I'm like, I don't. I don't know how to answer that. I don't.

[Becky Hater]

Science, not science.

[Kaylory]

I don't know how to tell them, like, oh, by the way, this is going to happen for like several months out of the year, for the rest of your life. Like, I don't know how to explain it to them.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Which is so interesting. I can't wait for you to experience that as a mom. Like, your kids ask crazy questions and you're like, I. I just tell my kids flat out, like, I truly don't know the answer.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Just hope that they are okay with that.

[Becky Hater]

I will start writing these answers down so that I'm fully prepared for when I am a mother. I just want to let you know we didn't talk yesterday, which I feel like is a little weird. No, let me hear me out first.

[Kaylory]

Okay.

[Becky Hater]

I had myself a day as well.

[Kaylory]

Did you? Okay, yes, we.

[Becky Hater]

Last night or two nights ago, I got home from adult volleyball. I play adult volleyball on Wednesdays. It is adult volleyball. There's no children. It's literally. It's a female adult volleyball league.

[Kaylory]

Okay.

[Becky Hater]

And I get a text from Leah and it says, hey, a little bit of an emergency. And I say, leah, you're pregnant. You can't say that kind of stuff without explaining things no more. She goes, come downstairs when you get home. Our basement was starting to flood.

[Kaylory]

Okay. Because the craziest thing yesterday, I literally was like, I hope everything is okay. But like, I was between flying and like my pre op and like everything else. I was like, I hope that she's not. Not talking because something.

[Becky Hater]

She's mad at me. Our main line to our septic backed up and everything started coming back up.

[Kaylory]

Back up on your downstairs floor.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

You know, you have to get that pumped once a year or every other year.

[Becky Hater]

You don't have to. You have to get it pumped three to five years and so pulled every.

[Kaylory]

Other year at it.

[Becky Hater]

Depends how. How. I'm guessing how big your septic tank is. Our septic hadn't been pumped since 2001, so lesson learned. But actually it wasn't because our septic was full. There was a clog in the mainline so that someone shoved something that shouldn't have gone down the toilet in the toilet.

[Kaylory]

And like recently or just.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, recently. I had my niece and 10 of her 21 year old friends over. They always come over after Thanksgiving, so they must have done something and it was just like a slow backup from there.

[Kaylory]

Do you need to put signs in your bathroom that says do not flush sanitary?

[Becky Hater]

They must have like, like thrown up or something and like cleaned it up.

[Kaylory]

No, Becky, someone threw it. They literally put a.

[Becky Hater]

No, it was a club. We. We've got it. Gene, Leah's dad, came over and fixed everything. He was a saint. We, like, Leah and I were looking up Airbnbs. We were having such a stressful day because we were supposed to have a photo shoot yesterday. We didn't do it. We. My brother came in yesterday. My sister comes in today. Everyone's staying with us for the holidays. And so we were looking up Airbnbs because we were like, what are we going to do? Everyone's supposed to be here. If we don't have a toilet or running water, we're gonna have to go somewhere else. But Gene came and saved the day.

[Kaylory]

So is your house livable and you're able?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, everything's fine. The shit's cleaned up.

[Kaylory]

Like, I'm picturing floors up to the bed downstairs.

[Becky Hater]

No, no, it was like in the bathroom. It was a couple inches, but it.

[Kaylory]

Did you use a shop vac?

[Becky Hater]

No, we used a bunch of towels, but it was because Leah was doing wash and all the wash was coming back up. It wasn't going out, it was coming back up. So thankfully it was more. So just water and just whatever was clogged from the past, like couple weeks.

[Kaylory]

I don't know. I feel like you should print something that says like throw about sign.

[Becky Hater]

Okay, I'll get a sign. I called my niece and I said, you're on my shit list.

[Kaylory]

What did she say?

[Becky Hater]

She goes, I'm sorry. I. Like, I just don't know why someone would do that. I was like, I don't know either.

[Kaylory]

For 20 acres, go pick a corner.

[Becky Hater]

For real?

[Kaylory]

No, but lesson learned. You need to have your pump. You need to have it pumped pretty often. I also had that happen, but it came up through the toilet and so I was like, what the is going on? I didn't even know you had to get them pumped at that point. Houses that. The house that we used to have the 4th of July parties at.

[Becky Hater]

Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. This is for the girlies listening that are homeowners. Get your septic pumped.

[Kaylory]

If you don't need a man, first of all, you don't. You can do this. Just call your local, like, septic or waste people and they will come do it. You can set up an appointment. You can do a standing appointment.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, you don't need a mess, right?

[Kaylory]

It does go by how big your septic is. And you know what's so funny? When I got quoted for the new house that I plan on putting on the land, at some point, they were like, for the amount of there's nine people in your house. Like, the amount. The size of your septic is going to be massive. And I was like, yeah, okay, got it. And she was like, you might even want to plan out two. And I was like, okay.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, we're. I was just talking to Jean the other day about putting another septic in here for the garage so I can build, like, a something above it. He's like, yeah, I can do that. No problem.

[Kaylory]

Nope, no big deal. Don't worry about it. Okay. I wanted to talk about goals of for 2025. We're closing out 2024. And so last night I did a little bit of brainstorming. I have, like, my personal goals, and then I have some podcast goals. What are your. Do you have personal ones?

[Becky Hater]

First of all, yeah, I do have personal goals. Goals. Jesus. I want to be more. More intentional with my own personal growth next year. I know that I've been. I've been working on a lot of myself and my external relationships. Like, being mindful of my external relationships was ultimately helps myself too. But I want to make sure that I do have a little bit of some anger issues. What? Like, they're not ang. Like, full anger issues. I just have a short fuse sometimes, and I really want to try to work on that.

[Kaylory]

Is it anger or is it like, you get frustrated?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I get overwhelmed. I get overstimulated.

[Kaylory]

Okay. I don't know that I would call that anger issues then. And do you think that you possibly have adhd?

[Becky Hater]

No, I don't think so. I don't have. The reason I don't is because I know that I probably have some sort of it, but I don't have, like, I can finish. I'm a start finish task person. Like, I can finish anything I start. I can do multiple things at a time. I just get overstimulated because I want to make sure that I'm preparing myself for motherhood as best that I can. And I don't want to take out my little frustrations on my child. So I really want to make sure I'm building and focusing on myself, going to therapy, working on things I can do to help.

[Kaylory]

When you say, when you say that you don't want to take those frustrations out on your child, do you mean, and I'm speaking from experience when I say this, so bear with me. If you are on a work call or a meeting or something and your child is like trying to talk to you or trying to like pulling on you or you know, something like that, and you're like, okay, hold like you like not snap at them but like, is that what you mean?

[Becky Hater]

No, I don't think that yet because like there's so much before that I think like things I can't control, right? The kid having a blowout in a situation that's really like not great and staying calm because there's nothing else I can do except handle this situation or being overstimulated from crying, being overstimulated from like the need of like lack of sleep and things of those sorts. So just working on like my breathing, working on myself to be able to be a good partner and be able to be there for Leah and be, be able to be calm for myself.

[Kaylory]

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I think that I don't know why you're laughing. I don't know why you're laughing. I think that it is incredible that you are self aware enough to like have that view. Because I never, until I was in it. I want to say that I think that in those moments where they do have a blowout or they are crying, me knowing the kind of person that you are, you are just going to do it, right? Like I think that you're. I don't want you to work yourself up over things like that because in the moment of things, you're just going to do the damn thing and people are like, oh, how did you get through that? And you're gonna be like, I don't know, I just do it. That's gonna be how you enhance. You and Leah handle these things. And I think a lot of moms across the board are so, so hard on themselves about stuff like that. But like, you just do it. You just figure it out. I don't ever see you. You might be frustrated in your head, but you're not going to take it out on your baby.

[Becky Hater]

I'm working on it and I love.

[Kaylory]

The self awareness, but I think that I don't want you to spend so much time thinking that that is something that I do way better than you are preparing for.

[Becky Hater]

I need to make sure that it said one of my worst traits, and this was passed down to me and my siblings have it as well, is the minor inconvenience that happens. We are ready to just uproot and throw everything away. It is a really.

[Kaylory]

You're not going to throw your baby away.

[Becky Hater]

It is a really bad trait. It's something I've worked really hard to get. I think I'm, like, almost through it. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but for example, I always give this example. One time, Leah broke up with me. Leah used to like to break up with me. And she broke up with me that next day. I got a U haul. I moved my stuff out and left and I had to go back to get something. And she left a note and it said, like, we could have talked or something.

[Kaylory]

Like, like she was going through something. Yes.

[Becky Hater]

And. And like, so, like the smallest inconvenient, like, I just was like, okay, it. I'll just. Just uproot and leave.

[Kaylory]

We could have talked is crazy. I mean, she's not wrong.

[Becky Hater]

No. Anyway, that was one of mine. What's one of yours?

[Kaylory]

One of mine is. Well, that is mine. Like, if Elijah talks to me out of, you know, the side of his mouth one time, like, we can end it all right here. We can be done. If you don't love me, say that right now. You can walk your ass up to that driveway and sleep in your own house. Could you imagine I said to Alessandra yesterday, I was like, could you imagine? Because I did get knocked up, like, first time we ever had sex. Right.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Could you imagine if we, like, didn't decide to try the relationship aspect of it and we just co parented and I, like, was like, okay, Rio, run up to your dad's. And like, he, like, ran up the driveway every other day or every other week. Like, did you imagine that?

[Becky Hater]

No. Yes.

[Kaylory]

I had a social experiment for a little experiment. Like, what would this be like? No, because the fact that he would be able to see every single person that comes in and out of my driveway and then I would have to pass his carport.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

I have to tell you what I've been thinking about for the past 48 hours. And I. I don't know if I owe you an apology or if it's like a whole conversation, I think for so long. I don't know what gave me this realization for so long. Probably Since I met you, I've had this, like, view or perception or, like, I don't want to call it an expectation of you that, like, you don't have any problems and that, you know, listen to me, you don't have any problems, and you handle everything so gracefully and you. So you can take on all my baggage. So anytime I have a problem, I go to you and. Because your life is pretty, pretty perfect, we kind of had the conversation in New Orleans where I was, like, telling you, like, just shocked by some of the things that you were telling me. And so I sort of have trauma dumped or problem dumped or I've talked to you about my problems without asking you about, like. Like you just said just now, this. This sewer problem. You're like, hold on. And I want to apologize for that because I just realized over this, like, new rekindling that, like, you're a human and you also have stuff going on.

[Becky Hater]

I laugh. I don't. I don't know. I'm laughing. But I. But I. I've talked about this before. I think that there's never been a time that you came to me where I was too overwhelmed with my stuff to be able to help you with yours.

[Kaylory]

But I didn't know you had stuff at all. Like, I didn't know that there was.

[Becky Hater]

Like, I thought I just live in.

[Kaylory]

This perfect world, frolicking through life.

[Becky Hater]

Frolicking through the woods. No, we'll talk, and we'll probably talk more about that. I mean, I don't think I. I am very fortunate in the life that I get to live, but I also choose to make my life better. Right? Like, anyone could have had their dad die this year, and it could have still been something that carries over them. I was just talking to someone about this yesterday. Or is it two days ago? I just, like, choose to just have a brighter light. That. And that's a choice. Like, that's a choice that you have to make. And it's not like, there aren't times that, you know, I'm, like, crying or being sad. But I recognize sad situations and sad situations are. You're allowed to have emotions about them. Like, it is a set. It's nothing else. In a sad situation. Like, there's no getting around that. Right?

[Kaylory]

But I just never.

[Becky Hater]

You just never. Never looked at me as a human.

[Kaylory]

I guess. But like, I was thinking, I never saw you cry until your dad passed away and we talked about it.

[Becky Hater]

You know, there's a character in your.

[Kaylory]

Book, if I ever wrote a novel, which is a Personal goal of mine in 2025 is to rework my current novel. Or.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I'm trying to think. I guess I. Maybe I wasn't a crier back then.

[Kaylory]

You've always been a crier. Like, now that I'm thinking back, like, I know that there have been times that you've been upset, but I never saw you cry. I've never seen you grieve.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

You know, I cry, like, twice a day. Like, right now. Like, even still.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Like, over. What would you say?

[Becky Hater]

Over anything. If there is something that makes me happy, that makes me sad. We were talking about baby names yesterday. I started crying. I saw a girl that was surprised by her girlfriend that start on TikTok. That started making me cry. My. Me and my friend. My friend Kate. We. Our relationship is pretty much us sending tiktoks to each other and then pictures of us crying. Like, let me just hold on. Crying, crying, crying, crying, crying. Wait, is there more there? Yep. Crying, crying.

[Kaylory]

That's so funny. I always. One time I got stuck in a chicken coop, and out in the chicken coop at my house, and I was like, hey, guys, it's me, Kayl. I'm stuck in the chicken coop. So now me and Alessandra just send ugly pictures of ourselves doing stuff, and we're like, hey, it's me, Alessandra, or, hey, it's me, Kayl. Because everyone's like, why would you ever say, like, it's me, Kayl? Like, you're on the camera. Like, we can see you. Similar, similar. Love those relationships. Those are the best ones.

[Becky Hater]

Do you. Do you want me to start trauma dumping on you so it makes. Makes you think of me more as a real human?

[Kaylory]

If you feel comfortable. Yeah, okay. Like, just every minor inconvenience, and we can throw it away together.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. Like, hey, this just happened. Just letting you know, I just cried over this.

[Kaylory]

Yeah. So I know that you're real so that you're not a figment of my imagination.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

I mean, okay. So my personal goals. Let me just pull them up really quickly. I'm struggling deeply struggling with my identity in a way that, like, not even just outside of being a mom, because I think that's a regular struggle for so many people, is, like, who am I outside of being a mom? Remove the outside of being a mom part of the equation. I don't know who the fuck Kale is. So in 2025, I want to know. Like, I want to develop, like, a deeper sense of who Kale is. What do I like to do? What is, you know, what drives me, what motivates me, what makes me tick. I want to find a personal style. I feel like so often, and I don't know if it's adhd. I don't know if it's because I'm a people pleaser. I don't know what it is. I will see something I like and I take aspects of, like, it's sort of like I take traits and qualities from people around me, make them my own identity, because I don't know who the I am. And I even catch myself, like, saying certain things that other people say regularly. And so I just need to stop doing that. And I also would like to develop, like, my personal style a little more.

[Becky Hater]

Not just like, lesbian anymore.

[Kaylory]

Well, I am a lesbian, so, like, I think that's why.

[Becky Hater]

Wait, let me acknowledge what you just said first, because I think that's. I think that you have all the tools in your belt to be able to find those things. I think that you have enough going on to figure out what it is that you want to focus on and what you want to identify with. You got a lot great things going for you around you, so I'm excited for you to figure that out.

[Kaylory]

Well, when I buy new pieces of clothing, like, are the flannels in or out, though? Like, I don't. I was unaware of the flannel stigma.

[Becky Hater]

Flannels will never leave my wardrobe.

[Kaylory]

Mine either, but so I walk. You guys listening to this podcast? You saw the last week's episode of Becky and Myself in New Orleans, and I'm wearing a black and nude flannel. And I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. I thought I had an outfit put together, right? My Converse on, my black jeans, my flannel. There were four people in the room, including myself, and two of them said, wow, you look like a lesbian right now. And I said, what? The flannel is very lesbian esque. When was anyone going to tell me.

[Becky Hater]

That we own flannels? That's. That's been a known thing.

[Kaylory]

I love flannels and I am a lesbian.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, you're bisexual.

[Kaylory]

Yeah, Well, I told Elijah and he was just like. Literally, I don't even think he said anything.

[Becky Hater]

He was just like, yeah, when we have our. When we have our annual meetings, like our lesbian meetings, we go through and we like, say how we're gonna.

[Kaylory]

Lesbian meetings.

[Becky Hater]

Dude, I'm just with you.

[Kaylory]

Is that a thing? Like all you and all your local lesbies just.

[Becky Hater]

Just go through and pick the flannel that's in style that. That's gonna be in style that season so we can acknowledge each other on the streets. Did you know that there's, like, a head nod that. That, like, queer people do when they see each other on the streets to just be like, me, too.

[Kaylory]

Like, I see you. Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna start doing it. So, like, if I do it, are they gonna acknowledge me?

[Becky Hater]

You can't do that. You can't do that to anyone.

[Kaylory]

Oh, it's like, if you know them already.

[Becky Hater]

No, it's not. You're just gonna start nodding to everyone to see who nods back.

[Kaylory]

Is that. How do you do it then?

[Becky Hater]

What? You just go like.

[Kaylory]

So, like, why can't I just do it? Why can't I do it?

[Becky Hater]

Do you feel like you can point out other homosexuals?

[Kaylory]

Yeah, I do, actually. My data is so small.

[Becky Hater]

Then join the party.

[Kaylory]

Is there a lesbian app? Like, there is, like, Grindr or are women also on Grindr?

[Becky Hater]

No, there's lesbian apps.

[Kaylory]

What are they called?

[Becky Hater]

There is a app called Her.

[Kaylory]

Okay.

[Becky Hater]

There's an app called Tammy.

[Kaylory]

Tammy?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

They could have picked a better name. Tammy.

[Becky Hater]

You have a funny. I actually have a funny story about the. Her app. I was on it when one of the times that Leah broke up with me, I got back on the app, and so I had a profile, and then we got back together. So obviously I deleted it. And I went into the Quick check, and we were ordering food, and Leah was like, oh, I went to high school with that girl. And I said, she hits on me all the time. And Leah was like, no, she doesn't. She's not gay. I was like, okay. And for whatever reason, I. I don't know if I downloaded it to find something. I don't. I don't know. But I logged into it, and it was the girl from Quick Check messaging me on there. And I showed Leah, and I was like, I told you.

[Kaylory]

She say.

[Becky Hater]

She was like, I hate you. Like, I don't even know how this happens. It was funny.

[Kaylory]

You ever see her again after that?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I don't get uncomfortable around most people. The only people I would get uncomfortable around is people that used to be my best friends that are no longer my best friends.

[Kaylory]

Would you get uncomfortable if someone that you hooked up with was in the same room that, like, walked into the same restaurant that you and Leo were in?

[Becky Hater]

No. I would think it would be really funny because.

[Kaylory]

Well, because, like, Leah is so secure in your relationship that I don't think that it would. She would be affected.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, Leah can get a little bit jealous sometimes, but like in a cute way, not in like in. It's not really like a jealous way. She hasn't. I mean I've never. I've literally given her zero reasons to ever question my loyalty to her. I think it would be. I guess it depends who it was because like most of the people I've hooked up with are exes. All the other people are one night stands that I don't even know. So I wouldn't even know if they were walking into a room.

[Kaylory]

You like, forget who they are.

[Becky Hater]

Oh, a thousand percent. There's most people I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to pick out of a lineup.

[Kaylory]

I love that life for you.

[Becky Hater]

I have to put you all on to a new secret weapon. I saw it not only through this podcast, but it's been popping up on my tick tock as well. The Eurovaginal probiotics have legit changed my vagina's life. You could take two capsules a day. They keep everything smelling fresh down there. And to be honest, it's more comfortable during the day to day life as well. I swear by them. Many factors like sex, sweat from working out, hormones and periods can disrupt vaginal health and lead to an imbalance in vaginal flora and ph, unhealthy odor, slash taste, abnormal discharge, and even discomfort. Yo is a blend of four strains of probiotics that target vaginal health. Research shows that these strains support healthy vaginal odor, vaginal ph, vaginal flora, and yeast balance.

[Kaylory]

So if you guys are sexually active, you're concerned about your vaginal scent, you often feel vaginal discomfort or are prone to vaginal imbalance, then Neuro is definitely for you. And O Positive is on a mission to deliver innovative, clinically backed fun to take products that support women from their first period to well beyond their last.

[Becky Hater]

They are committed to breaking down stigmas and addressing the unspoken issues many women experience. Hormone health, vaginal health, menopause, etc OH Positive's ability to create real tangible results has made them a go to brand for millions of women.

[Kaylory]

You guys can take proactive care of your vaginal health and head to oppositive.com karma or enter karma at checkout for 25 off your first purchase. That's O P O S I T I V.com karma for 25% off.

[Becky Hater]

All right, let's go on to professional goals.

[Kaylory]

Okay, professional goals for this podcast specifically I wrote continue to grow our community of like minded individuals. Launch merch, build more brand Awareness and then more personal content with you outside of, like, the podcast. And what I mean by that is, like, you know, maybe we could do when we get together in person, like, more like vlog style for that day. So it's not just us on the podcast. It's like, who. What is Kale and Becky's friendship outside of the podcast? Like, something.

[Becky Hater]

What are they up to? Out in the wild?

[Kaylory]

Yeah, like, podcast.

[Becky Hater]

Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie.

[Kaylory]

Well, that's like, me and Lindsay's thing.

[Becky Hater]

Okay. Not me. What is. No, totally fine. Lindsay, I love you not stepping on toes. Who else can we compare it to? I'll have to find, like, a lesbian and kind of lesbian duo.

[Kaylory]

We should have named the podcast Lesbianist.

[Becky Hater]

There is a podcast called that. I'm going on it.

[Kaylory]

Oh, cool. Shameless Self Plug. Love that. When are you going on it?

[Becky Hater]

We're recording in two weeks, I think.

[Kaylory]

Oh, cute. Okay, cool. And then the next time I see you in person, we will be in, I think, Philly. And then we go to New York.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Which is exciting.

[Becky Hater]

My Prof. Those are really great professional goals. I think that. I love that. I think that there could be more content based around, like, stuff we do that would be a lot of fun. We have so much fun together.

[Kaylory]

So we just laugh so much. I. Yeah. Like, we could have did alligator balls when we were in New Orleans. Way harder to get the footage on our own than anyone. Like, the people that you see any influencers, content creators, YouTubers, all of those people that are getting the content themselves. Like, Alex Earl is so fudgeing good at it. And I just can't get it for some reason. Like, I just. I guess. What is the that sound that Julia? I know the girlies. I know the vibes, and I don't know them. I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to execute. Like, I can have all these ideas, and I just don't.

[Becky Hater]

You really should, though, because you have already monopolized people's time by. You get. You get people to listen to three hours a week on podcasts for you, which is pretty impressive.

[Kaylory]

Which. Shout out to every single listener who listens to one, two, or all of my shows. Like, you guys are the MVPs. Truly. I love.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. And they stand for you 10 toes deep. They love you.

[Kaylory]

Sorry, I have to.

[Becky Hater]

And they like to see you grow and thrive, which I love. I think some of my professional goals are to continue in the direction that I went this year. I did a lot more work in my Side business like from a marketing consulting and that was really great to help me financially this past year. I am a credit card debt girly and we've. I don't know if I've talked about that before. So I am two payments away from being credit card debt free and I've worked really, really, really, really hard to get here and that was because of the side work that I put in outside of like my full time job. I had a lot of growth in my full time job too. And so that is something that I want to continue to kind of thrive in and just build myself as a better business person. From a podcast perspective, I really want to secure the growth of this podcast because I think that it just can bring a lot to the world in general. And I think that it's really great for our relationship and our relationship building and it's. I love it. I've been having so much fun with this and so like the bigger it gets, the more successful and more we can put into it. So growth here and then obviously with for the haters relaunching, hopefully getting that back and its own platform eventually. So the goal is to launch it here to build awareness behind it to see if there's enough people that will listen and then it can, we can start recording and it being its own show. This was a really great year for me from a professional standpoint. So I'm excited to kind of continue that.

[Kaylory]

I have two comments. One, 2024 was one of my best years and also one of my most emotionally draining years. Very, very exhausting. Lots of anxiety, lots of, you know, sleepless nights, things like that. But simultaneously professionally my exploded. So best and worst year in so many different ways. My second comment is, would you be willing to talk about your debt journey and your. Because you know, Kristen is like, she manages my finances and she does a really, really good job. I don't do a good job. But I say that to say that the, the influx of people who are constantly asking for us to talk about that that is I would say one of the number one questions that people ask. And I think that you talking about your journey might help someone. And for sure, you know, because I asked you when you told me that you were and was like, well, what did you go into debt from? Like I, I only just recently in the last five years got a credit card. So like I. And Kristen has helped me manage them. So I have never fully like 20 credit cards. I feel like, okay, well can you talk about it a little bit and we can Go and we can go in depth about it on another episode.

[Becky Hater]

But just wanted to talk about a little bit now. Or you want us to just have.

[Kaylory]

A whole episode about it? How if we talk a little bit about it now, we can see how people respond to interest.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

And. And maybe Kristen would have some helpful tips in regards to this that we can like mention on the next episode. An episode. But like I said, this is something that people ask about all the time. So I just was wondering if you were comfortable.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I think the biggest issue with, with over it's. It's all about overspending and not realizing how much money is actually going out. Right. So my debt first came from when I first got my credit card out of college and I wanted to live beyond my means and not for nothing, and I say this and I don't want this to be what people take from it, but I do not regret my life I lived at all. I didn't go above my mean to the point of like complete disarray. But I spent way too much money in my 20s and you know, I didn't say no to things even if I didn't have the money to do it. Yeah, I would just put it on my credit card and. And I'm paying for it now. A lot of my debt. A lot of my debt now comes from the house. We didn't take out any like mortgage to re. To re renovate the house. So we did a lot of like credit card debt.

[Kaylory]

Personal.

[Becky Hater]

Like I borrowed money from my mom. So I still.

[Kaylory]

Oh, why not do like a home equity line of credit?

[Becky Hater]

Because the house is in. Is it in our names yet?

[Kaylory]

Oh, okay. So the home equity line of credit would be under whoever's name it's in.

[Becky Hater]

And Leah's dad's name.

[Kaylory]

They would have to qualify. Okay, got it. Yeah.

[Becky Hater]

So we just. That's what. That's made sense to us. And I'm not completely out of debt. I still have personal loans that I'm paying off. I still have money that I owe my mom that I'm paying off, which was thankful that she was able to because she's lent me a lot of money for the big chunk of the renovations and I've just been paying it off. But yeah, credit card debt sucks. I. It's like a never ending cycle because I would always just like. But what you can do is you can take like if you have a large chunk of money on your credit card, you might be able to open a new one if you're good with Your money don't do this or it just becomes in a repeating process where you can transfer that balance to a 0% interest rate for like two years so you have a better chance of paying it off. And I just kept doing that and I kept transferring it, then paying that off and then adding more. And yeah, I put myself in a really bad position. And then my sister, we've talked about her before. My sister has like a financial coaching for like everyday people to help with budgeting. It's really inexpensive for her services and she helped me a lot. She helped me figure out what budget I needed to stay into. I don't really follow a budget. I just know what I can and can't really spend. But I also, I make a lot more money now than I did 10 years ago.

[Kaylory]

So that being said, how do you say no to things simply from a financial aspect, like if you cannot do it, I can leave my house.

[Becky Hater]

Huh Said I don't leave my house.

[Kaylory]

Someone asks you to go do something, do you just, you just say no? Like, I can't.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, if it's like something bigger. But again, I've worked really hard the past couple years that I don't have to say no too much. Like, I've really grown in my career. I've really done the work on the side.

[Kaylory]

But I, for those listening who, yeah, sort of like you in your 20s, you wouldn't say no and you would just swipe your card is like, maybe in 2025, there are listeners who like need to say no in order to pay off their debts. And how do you say no? Like, because I don't know that I would be comfortable basically saying like, I don't have the money to go do that. Like, I don't think I would have the balls to do that. And you want to pull the power to do that because the end goal is okay, if you want to clear your debt and you can't go out to this dinner and event that's going to cost you a hundred dollars that, that could go towards the credit card payment is like giving people the power and the, you know, the support to say no to something like that.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I think it's finding the comfort, comfortableness in like, I, if I have a, if I can't do something or if I, if I can't do a vacation, I'll say a vacation because that is what I have to say no to. Now if my friends are asking me to do something, I'll be like, oh, like, I can't afford to spend that right now, I normally put it on right. Like, oh, I just got married this year. Oh, we just did ivf. Like I can't afford an expense like that. And it's nothing to shameful of. Like you, like if you don't have the money at that point to do it, there's no shame in that. Like we're just human beings trying to navigate this life that everything is expensive to do and just find some things that are less expensive. Right.

[Kaylory]

Part of it is like social media and keeping up with the Joneses and then also the FOMO fear of being left out of certain things with your friends or like if all your friends are going on a group vacation and you can't go. Like that's really hard to, like that's a hard pill to swallow.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, you're. Yeah. And you're not wrong, I think. And. But maybe it's finding some friends that like kind of have the same, like kind of can live that same life as you do. Right. Going to a picnic in a park instead of going to a five star restaurant. Like finding, finding things that can balance your journey. Like, and also social media is so fake. And I mean that in like the most in a way that can help you just rationalize what you're doing. Like I, I have a love hate relationship with social media because I love social media because I can connect with people that I wouldn't be able to connect with to show them a life that they can possibly have specifically speaking to like queer people. Right. I can, I can show them this. But not for nothing, if you could look at my social media and I could go home and have a terrible relationship with Leah. Right. Like that's that I know people that have that. So take social media for you know what it is and, and don't try to completely navigate your life based on what other people are doing because I know a lot of people that portray themselves on social media as this perfect, happy person and they, they are not that at home.

[Kaylory]

I mean I know a lot of people like that. I would say a lot of people are like that. I mean we, it's a highlight reel, right? Like it's not. We're not going to go on and show our struggles. I do want to show my struggles because I know that if it helps one person then I'm doing my job as so I, that's sort of where I am. I want to maybe not talk about shitting my pants in public as often in 2025. I hope I don't shit myself in Public as often in 2025. So there's nothing to talk about. But I think. I don't know. I want to bring more realness and rawness. Sort of like TikTok. I feel somebody. Was it Alessandra? Somebody said something to me about TikTok being like, where you go to be human, and then Instagram is where you go to see, like, the highlight reels, like, the good things. I hope that the change of Instagram in that way is sort of like a pivot to also being, like, a real TikTok.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love when. I mean, but that's like, you see successful, like, influencers that are. Right. Alex Earl, great example, is very honest about her life and, like, honest about the struggles as well. Yeah, I love it.

[Kaylory]

I have a question for you. For today's episode of Karma and Chaos. I need to know. I have talked about through therapy and on the podcast is like, my therapist would. Would tell me that it is not your place to tell someone that their partner is cheating on them. We've had these conversations, and it's like, at one point in my life, I would run to that person and be like, so and so is cheating on you. But when I went through my own experiences, through things like that, I learned that it's not my place. I also do think that it depends on the relationship you have with the person. So, like, if it's your sister, I feel like you're gonna make a different decision than it is, like, for someone that you are acquainted with or like your best friend that is your. Is basically your sister. Like, it's gonna be different. So my question to you is, if you caught your best friend's partner cheating and they offered you a million dollars to keep your mouth shut, would you.

[Becky Hater]

So I'm gonna put myself in this situation with Ryan because Ryan doesn't have a part. Like all of my best friends right now. I'm also best friends with their partner. So I think that would be a very difficult place to be. That's like, a different conversation. If Ryan. If I saw a girl that Ryan was dating cheating on him, I would tell him 100%. But I also. It depends on your relationship, right? Because if I went to Ryan and was. He wouldn't be embarrassed that I knew, because a lot of the time, right. If it was more of, like, an acquaintance friend and I told them, they would be like, it probably would cause friction between us, and then we probably wouldn't be friends anymore because there wasn't a value of friendship to begin with and I've seen that happen, right? Like it's just like stay in your lane, get the out of here. Like like this isn't your relationship. Because what happens if they stay together? They might choose to stay together. Cheating doesn't end relationship. So it just makes it really uncomfortable. But like again if it was Ryan in this situation, I would 1000% have a conversation with him. But in a. Not in like coming to him being like, dude, I found this out. Being like, hey, I love you, I want the best for you. But I guess I would give the person the opportunity to tell them first. Like hey, you should really tell them or I don't fucking know. Sometimes I feel like cheating. It depends on how it was done is better left just like never talked about.

[Kaylory]

Give me an example of that.

[Becky Hater]

So like I don't like say, say that was me, right. Me and Leah are together and I'm out drunk at a bar and I make out with some random person that I'll never talk to again. And it was a one off kind of situation. It was a fuck up situation. It's gonna hurt our relationship more if she knows than if I tell. Then if she doesn't know, right. Like I'm holding that guilt myself and if I share it with her then we're both holding it and I rather, I'd rather just hold it than tell her. I think. I don't know. I've never been in this situation.

[Kaylory]

But wait, that's actually really interesting because I feel like I don't know that cheating would be that. But that sort of goes back to the conversation that we had about can you be too honest with your partner? Yeah, I don't know that cheating for me falls into that category. But that goes back to like if it maybe it wasn't cheating, maybe it was like friend drama or relationship drama or something that just like an incident that happened with someone sort of the same. Right. Like you can be too honest. If it's going to do more damage to the relationship to share that with them, it's probably best not to.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. And I'm not talking about a fair cheating. Right. That's emotional. If there's emotional cheating involved, that's completely different. Like that is warrant for a conversation. But some type of just reckless physical cheating. I don't know. I think emotional cheating is worse than physical cheating.

[Kaylory]

So I mean I would also agree.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. Yeah. Cheating is a wild place to, to. Okay.

[Kaylory]

Because now I have a second question, a follow up question.

[Becky Hater]

Okay.

[Kaylory]

Do you think that cheating is inevitable? In relationships that last 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, it depends on when.

[Becky Hater]

When they started dating. I think that cheating is inevitable in the early stages of relationships. If you're young that like. And then you end up being together for 20 years. Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Okay, so I sort of have a different perspective here. I think that relationships who, you know, where people are together for, you know, 20 years, 30 years, you can't tell me that they did not have chemistry with someone else in that 20 years. Or maybe when you go through a certain phase in the relationship, like your roommates or whatever. I'm not saying it's okay.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

But I'm saying that I think that it's possible that, you know, certain couples that have been together that many years have gone through some infidelity, whether it's emotional, physical, maybe they take a break from each other and they go see other people, but it could still be considered infidelity in some ways. Makes, how do you not.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, I, I, I think that's fair. I think that there probably is some kind of. And it also depends on the relationship. Right?

[Kaylory]

Like, like, I think I would be naive to think, and I don't know this for sure, but my grandparents were married for 50 years before they passed away. You're, you mean to tell me that they have never.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, I don't know. I guess.

[Kaylory]

And then like, you know that there are going to be people that write in and say, well, my parents or my grandparents have been married for 50 years and you know, there was never any infidelity, infidelity that you know of. Your parents are not going to tell you those things. Your grandparents are not going to probably tell you those things. And they might downplay them, they might exaggerate them, whatever that looks like. But to me, like, I cannot imagine a world where you are with somebody for 20, 30, 40, 50 years and you're telling me that you've never had any type of affair or cheating, scandal, any of that. I don't believe it.

[Becky Hater]

I guess I'll tell you and like, we'll have to like come back and regroup on this in 20 years and see where we're at. But I, I don't imagine. I also very, am very self aware. I fall in love very easily. So like any situation that, and not in like a relationship way, but if I find myself in a situation or becoming friends with someone that I would like, if me and Leah broke up, that's who I would go to. I wouldn't have a relationship or friendship with Them.

[Kaylory]

Since you fall in love easily, do you think that you could love two people at one time?

[Becky Hater]

A thousand percent.

[Kaylory]

And what do you. What would you do? What if you fell in love? Like, you met someone who fell in love and you were with Leah?

[Becky Hater]

Like, I wouldn't put myself in that situation.

[Kaylory]

But you don't know who you're gonna meet.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, but you. I can't fall in love with someone within, like, five seconds of meeting them. I guess I can, but I don't know. I. I'm so. I think love is a choice. I think being in, Like, I think being in a relationship and. And growing a relationship is a choice that you make every single day. So if I ever wake up and start choosing outside of. Of being with Leah, then that's a bigger conversation. Right? I would never. I would never. Right now, I don't know what I would do. I would never think that I would be able to. To handle that. Navigating, putting my efforts and time into someone else. Because we are also in a position. I don't leave my house. I work from home. I'm not making building relationships with people via teams messages. Like, I'm not putting myself in those situations to fall in love really, with anyone else. Right.

[Kaylory]

Yeah. No, I feel like she might be.

[Becky Hater]

In the situation because she, like, she. I don't know. I. I don't think. I don't fear that for us and I. And if it does happen, I think that I don't know if that's a relationship ended. Like, it's not a ending point for me.

[Kaylory]

That's how I feel. Like I'm not. And especially because, you know, if Elijah and I are together for 10 or 15 years and something like that happens, I think that we would need to evaluate our relationship and for sure, like, where. Not that. Where did we go wrong? But like, where to reconnect so that this doesn't happen and you're not seeking out something somewhere else or accidentally finding something somewhere else because.

[Becky Hater]

Exactly.

[Kaylory]

Somewhere in our relationship. And that's the difference, I think, between someone who is like a chronic cheater or like a serial cheater is like, I don't believe that once a cheater, always a cheater. I do not believe that.

[Becky Hater]

I don't believe that either.

[Kaylory]

So it's so interesting.

[Becky Hater]

I think it depends too. Like, it's all about your. It's all about the foundation of your relationship and what it is that is being done. Like, if. If I end up putting my. Giving myself emotionally to someone else, like, what is wrong with my like my relationship that I felt like I needed to do that or like individual. If someone is in that situation of feeling like they want something else like that that's a more self work situation than it is relationship. Because it also could lead back to the millions of times we've talked about this on the podcast. Being what like the toxicness of a relationship and people finding healthy love afterwards and them not being fulfilled by healthy love. And so that's a lot of self work that comes with, with being able to accept and be in healthy love without trying to find the chaos elsewhere.

[Kaylory]

I'm finally in a place where I'm not looking for chaos.

[Becky Hater]

So yeah, I also, I also just, I know that we are wrapping up the new this year and I want to we talk through kind of our, our own personal goals, our own professional goals and what to us. There have been years that my goal for that next year was just to stay alive. And that at itself is totally okay. You don't have to have these crazy aspirations or any goals to work towards. Like just being able to wake up and live day by day is enough. If that's what you need and know that that's not girls, boys, they, thems. I have been there before in that position where like literally my only goal for that new year resolution was to stay alive. So doesn't hurt to think about what maybe other like what it is that you need and if that's it, that's fine. But I really hope that this next year for everyone listening brings some type of good. Not that we're wrapping up this episode, but I just want to wrap up the conversation around like just resol like resolutions. Last day of the year. Here we go. Let's fucking kill it.

[Kaylory]

Just to add on to that though, really quickly, if you are someone who is struggling, you know, with wanting to be here, thinking that it would be better without you here, it's absolutely untrue. And if you hold on a little bit longer, it's going to get better. And I know that that feels like it's not true when you're in that moment or you're going through those moments and those months and those weeks and just trying to get through the day to day, like hold on because it does get better and. And there is a place where you can find happiness again. And I know that feels impossible.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. There's one thing that, if there's one thing that I learned is that faking something till it doesn't feel like it's fake anymore is so true. Like I am until you make it, it's serious. Like, I am blindly. I'm becoming blindly optimistic. And it felt too so uncomfortable to do in the beginning to stay positive because it didn't feel authentic. Right. But because I consistently just kept doing that, it literally is my authentic self now. So, like, being positive, doing xyz, faking. Faking an emotion of. Of happiness or faking emotion or whatever that is. It might feel inauthentic to begin with, but just push forward, continue it, because it become. It can become kind of something who you are exactly opposite, though. Like, if you also, like, continue to be one thing, you'll stay that way.

[Kaylory]

But y'all got this speaking into existence also there. I don't. When I was depressed, there was no getting out of bed. There was. So I couldn't have faked anything if I wanted to. So I literally would just show up to the podcast just to be there. So, yeah, it's rough, but hold on, because it will get better. Even if you're not able to fake it. Like, Becky's talking about. Like, you will get you through it.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Now I'm ready for the listener writing.

[Becky Hater]

Okay. Hi, Kaylin. Becky, first, I want to say I'm so glad Becky is back. I have always admired the dynamic the two of you had, so I was crushed when I learned that the two of you stepped away from your friendship. I now see that it was likely the best thing that you two could have done, as it allowed you both the space to grow in the way you both needed to do. Very true. Thank you for recognizing that. I agree. I am reaching out because I'm struggling with a very difficult situation involving my best friend, and I'm. And I deeply value your perspective and advice. My best friend has a long history of unhealthy relationships, and her current partner is one of the most toxic. He's a narcissist who constantly plays mind games, pulling her into his cycles of toxicity and making it nearly impossible for her to move forward. He's a deeply miserable person who seems determined to keep her as miserable, as miserable as he is going out of his way to hold her back and prevent her from building a better life. He's also an alcoholic who cares about no one but himself. A few months after they got together, he totaled her car and left the scene. Never once offered to help get her a new one. So now she has a higher car payment and car insurance. He's gone to jail once and prison once. Both times, she financially supported him while being behind bars. He Was so good at telling her what she wanted to hear, which was how good things were going to be when he got out. Only he went back to the alcohol and lifestyle as soon as he was free. When he's angry at her, he takes it out on their daughter. Back when they lived together, he never wanted anything to do with their child. He was always looking for excuses to leave the house and even when he was there, he contributed nothing. My friend worked a full time job, yet he refused to work, wouldn't help around the house, wouldn't take care of their daughter, and he left her to handle everything on her own. She's essentially had to care for two children. Yes, I consider him a child and three dogs. While managing a job cleaning, laundry and everything else in their household, they go through these cycles where she blocks him and but then unblocks him. As soon as he notices, he wheedles, weasels his way back in and pulls her back into this toxic cycle. She ends up so far back set back that she can't even see how far she's come when he wasn't in the picture. It's heartbreaking to watch her stuck in this position, especially when I know how much better she could do for herself or her and her daughter. As someone who grew up watching my mom do the same exact patterns as I as I was growing up, it's deja vu. One of the hardest parts about this is seeing. Seeing how dealing with the person often leaves her without the patience for her toddler at the end of the day. I know right now she's little and likely won't remember this, but if it continues on, I know exactly the kind of feelings her will develop because I was the child at that at one time.

[Kaylory]

That makes me sad because yes, they won't remember it, but it will affect them. They're like sponges. So all the. The fighting that you're doing in front of them, they don't remember it, but it changes who they are?

[Becky Hater]

Absolutely.

[Kaylory]

This feels like it was written about someone that I also was with. So that's absolutely heartbreaking. The horrible part and the bad news that I have is that did I not wait?

[Becky Hater]

Should I not finish?

[Kaylory]

Oh, I thought it was done. My bad.

[Becky Hater]

Hold your horses there, Kale. She has struggle. She has struggled with low self esteem and self worth for as long as I've known. Makes it even harder for her to see a way out because she doesn't love herself enough to continue settling for this. I've tried to offer advice and support, but she doesn't seem ready to make changes. Often she only realizes the value of my advice after she. After things have fallen apart, I have suggested that she go to therapy. I know I can't make her want better for herself, but it's exhausting being the person who always tries to make help as an empath. I feel her pain deeply and it's taking a toll on my own well being. I don't want to abandon my best friend, especially when she needs someone in her corner. But I'm reaching a point where I feel like I'm compromising too much myself. How do I maintain this friendship in a way that protects my emotional help? How do I stay positive without being pulled into chaos? I know this is really long, but if you made it this far, thank you so much for taking the time to read this. I truly appreciate the advice anyone can offer.

[Kaylory]

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what she does. This friend is. It doesn't matter what she says, what she does, how many people are going to support her. It's not going to change what she does about this relationship. And I will say this. I look back at my relationship with certain people and I see how and why and when and all of those things about why certain people stuck around and why certain people couldn't. Because it was taking a mental toll on our friendship and on them, on themselves as an individual, like Bone, for a long time, had to step away from our friendship. We didn't have a falling out. We didn't. It wasn't like that. It was more like she had to remove herself because it was not good for her. My. My toxic relationship was not good for her. I'm not mad at her in any way, shape or form for having to make that decision herself. And I actually feel worse. Worse that she felt like she was in a position where she was between a rock and a hard place. But nothing that any of y'all told me, and y'all did tell me nothing would have changed anything. It wouldn't have changed because I thought that I could change him. I thought that I could make it work. I thought that he would pick me. I thought that at some point he would realize. And it wasn't until I hit my own wall that I was like, okay, I have to. I'm done.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been the. I've been this friend multiple times. I. I think it's important to first just recognize the compassion and commitment that you've had to your friend. It's like, clear that you care deeply about her, and it's really never easy just showing up when the situation feels so heavy. One of the hardest truths that kind of you have to accept is when we love someone is we can't make decisions for them. What you're doing, offering advice is kind of the best thing that you can be doing right now. But also, I need to encourage healthy boundaries, especially if it's starting to affect you and. And your life and your relationships. You can. I. I have had to create boundaries with people. And there might be a way to do this. We've talked about this before. Is just in a natural way where it's not an ultimatum way, because ultimatums are really hard to come back from. So maybe just trying to sell. Set healthier boundaries for yourself of how available you are to her. I know that's really hard to do.

[Kaylory]

And you don't have to announce them. Like, you don't have to say, I'm setting this boundary. Because at the end of the day, it is up to you to stay firm in them. You can't make someone abide by your boundaries. So if your boundary is okay, you know, I'm gonna, you know, truly stop hanging out with this person so often or stop talking to this person so often. And then you have to stay firm in that or, you know, whatever. Whatever the boundary is. Right? And maybe it is a natural progression of going in separate directions. That doesn't mean you don't still love that person. It doesn't mean that you don't still care about that person. But I also just want to say that, like, this is something that my therapist would say is an addiction. That. That. That for sure that your best friend is addicted to that relationship in that person in a way that she's seeking out. The highs of that relationship. She called it. Was it chasing the dragon or something. She compared it to a heroin addiction my therapist did because she said that they are constantly chasing that same first high that they had the first time they went to. They got on heroin, right? Or the first time. Yeah, I think it was heroin that she compared it to. And you're chasing that high of the relationship, that good feeling, those dopamine hits, whatever, from the first sort of beginning of the relationship or whenever that that high was. And it's. It's not going to go away until they're done. And for me, it was them having a baby with someone else. That was the nail in the coffin. And truly, I literally said to Alessandra yesterday that was the best thing that could have happened, period.

[Becky Hater]

Life is hard and challenging. Roads aren't always straight. Sometimes we have to kind of veer off and take a pit stop for ourselves. Just remember that it's okay to take care of yourself, too, in situations. I know the guilt will be there. And I am a empath as well, so I can just relate to how hard that is. But like we said, doesn't have to be a thing that's mentioned. Start just kind of protecting your peace a little bit more. And that's what I have to say.

[Kaylory]

I wish I had better advice.

[Becky Hater]

Just, you're hurt like that. It just sucks. It's a shitty. It's a shitty, shitty, shitty situation to be in. I probably should have brought this up in the beginning of the podcast.

[Kaylory]

What?

[Becky Hater]

Now that we've gone through a million other different conversations, but thank. Thankfully that you guys are still listening and don't go anywhere. So the other day, we were driving into the city for dinner with some friends, and Leah got a text message that said that she got her results from the genetic testing for the baby. And I said, leah, we can't look at them. We have a photo shoot scheduled to do a gender reveal.

[Kaylory]

Is this the one that didn't do?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, the photo shoot we didn't do yesterday. But we went into the city, we had dinner, we came home, Leah went to bed. I stayed up reading a little bit longer, and then it was probably like an hour and a half, and I went into the room and she was still up, and she was like, don't you think we should just look at them? And so I said, yes. Well, it was hard because the gender results were grouped with genetic results, and the genetic results obviously are.

[Kaylory]

I guess. Can I guess what it is?

[Becky Hater]

Probably just as important.

[Kaylory]

Can I?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Kaylory]

Is it a boy?

[Becky Hater]

Alessandra, what's your guess? It is a boy. Oh, we are. We thought it was a boy, so we weren't as, like, jump scare shocked. So I'll send you the video because I did just take a video of, like, us finding out. But we're so excited. We're so happy.

[Kaylory]

Oh, my. And I just. I feel. I love that. I love that.

[Becky Hater]

I feel like I deserve to be a boy mom. At least to begin with.

[Kaylory]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

If you're anything like me, you'll have six boys, so it's fine.

[Becky Hater]

Oh, my God. I know, I know.

[Kaylory]

So now do you have a, Like a fir. You don't have to say what it is, but do you have a firm boy name picked out?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Can you text it to me?

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. I'll text it to you both and I'll text you the video. We're just, we're so excited. Obviously, I said this before. There's some sort of. What is the word I use because my brain's not working? Oh, symbolism. There's some sort of symbolism just with my dad passing away. Also, this is the only embryo that I have. And so for now, if he stays viable, which we're at 12 weeks, so hopefully everything continues to stay the way that it should. This might be the only biological kid that I have. I don't know if I'd go through another retrieval process after this. I don't feel the need to. If he, if he comes out and everything is fine. And so if I, I, I just, I feel like it meant something that it was a boy and like, it. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm happy. I can't wait. I know. Crazy. And his middle name will be Steven. So that's. That was my dad's middle name. Even though if we had a girl, we would have used the name Stevie probably for the middle name, which would have been cute too. But we're so pumped. Like, we are going to be like boy moms and I. This is going to be really fucked up. And this just shows the place that we live. But some part of me is, for two reasons, thankful. I think that from a mental perspective, it'll be easier for us to. To first have a boy to deal with what it's like bringing a human into the world because it's a little bit safer for men in this world. So raising a girl can be, I feel, like, a lot scarier. And then secondly, which is weird thing to say, but obviously, whatever the gender was going to be, I'd want to, like, dress them up how I dress up. And I feel like I'll. I won't get as much shit for dressing my little boy up in the clothes that I want.

[Kaylory]

Yeah.

[Becky Hater]

I feel like people would have talked shit of, like, me trying to groom a girl into being, like, a lesbian. Lesbian just from the way dressing them. Yeah.

[Kaylory]

So that's so valid.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. So we're. We're excited, like, we're gonna have a little boy.

[Kaylory]

I'm so excited. Also, that could be versus little bestie, because they won't even be two years apart. They'll be like. Yeah, like a year and like, 18 months apart. So Taylor is having Valley's bestie, and you're having versus Bestie.

[Becky Hater]

Yes. I also want to acknowledge how I had. I. You obviously know how close I am to my friends and how much I love my friends. But I went through this emotional thought process of just how, like, how thankful I am to have such close guy friends. I could cry. Crying on the episodes just because. Let me gather myself. Like, I'm not gonna be able to.

[Kaylory]

Say it without crying. When you cry, it automatically makes me want to cry.

[Becky Hater]

Breathing through the tears, just, like, how thankful I am that my kid will have, like, such loving men around them, you know?

[Kaylory]

Yeah. And to have, you know, male figures, because I still think that's important.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah, for sure. And just, like, how lucky I am to have that. To know that there's people around me that's gonna love them. And especially just having that male presence, because I know that it's important. It doesn't have to be a biological thing. So. Yeah. I'm just excited. I'm.

[Kaylory]

Okay. So when is. When is a baby shower?

[Becky Hater]

I don't know. I guess it would be in. When do you have baby showers?

[Kaylory]

Like, usually month seven or eight.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. So probably in June. End of May. June.

[Kaylory]

Okay. Just so I can block it off on my calendar.

[Becky Hater]

Are you gonna come?

[Kaylory]

Well, I would hope so. That's why I'm asking.

[Becky Hater]

Is Elijah gonna come or is it.

[Kaylory]

Going to be co ed?

[Becky Hater]

My best friends are men, so. Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Oh, that is such a cute name.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

So the. So Hater Makrovich.

[Becky Hater]

So I think we're gonna do Hater as a second middle name so that they don't have to use two last names throughout their life. But, yeah, it'll be Hayter Mackovich.

[Kaylory]

I. Rio has two middle names. I don't think it actually matters if it's the middle or last name only. And I only say that because when you fill out for kindergarten registration, when you get a license, when you get all of that, it's actually not differentiated between middle name and last name.

[Becky Hater]

Okay.

[Kaylory]

I don't know. Yeah.

[Becky Hater]

My dad's dead, so he doesn't care about his last name. And Leah's dad is alive and well, and he does. And he, like, has some feelings towards it about, like, continuing on. Their name and last name wasn't as important to me. It wasn't something that I felt too strongly about.

[Kaylory]

Right. So with his feeling, like, the feelings that you shared on, like, an earlier episode about, like, the biology, you know, biological situation.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

Does that matter that it would be his last name? Carry on.

[Becky Hater]

I don't think so, because. Right. Oh, it's snowing. So pretty. Sorry, Squirrel.

[Kaylory]

Because it's not biologically his, but I don't, I don't.

[Becky Hater]

I think that I was just dealing with my own self insecurities like kind of going through that. I think because when we told him it was a boy, he started crying.

[Kaylory]

Maybe he'll feel differently when he watches Leah's belly get bigger because she don't.

[Becky Hater]

Think he felt anyway to begin with. I think that I was just making things up in my head and like dealing with the emotions that come along with it. He's so excited. Like so excited. Like he's like started crying when we. He found just because with a boy. Right. Like he in his mind could have someone that comes to the farm. Not that a girl couldn't have done.

[Kaylory]

It but I think men just look.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

They want. They want another man to.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah.

[Kaylory]

You know that. I mean Elijah loves his daughter. Right. Like. But I think having a boy first for Elijah was know.

[Becky Hater]

Yeah. Yeah. So.

[Kaylory]

Well, I'm really excited for you. I love the name. I can't wait. I'll be there for the baby shower.

[Becky Hater]

And then we're gonna like. I'm so excited. I can't wait to. I can't wait to meet him.

[Kaylory]

Well, I'm really excited for you. Congratulations.

[Becky Hater]

Thank you. And that's it for karma and chaos this week, guys. New year starting two days from now or one day, I don't know.

[Kaylory]

Make your list. Do your vision board. Do your affirmations.

[Becky Hater]

Believe in the universe. Keep putting out what you want.

[Kaylory]

Yes. Fake it till you make it baby.

[Becky Hater]

Fake it till you make it baby.

[Kaylory]

Videos and clips of karma and chaos are on the killer network Instagram. We are also on TikTok under Karma chaos podcast. You can email us or write in your [e-mail] and where can we find you, Becky?

[Becky Hater]

You can find me anywhere on Instagram. TikTok hater25. You can find me on my website beckyhater.com make sure to now follow for the haters for updates there at. For the haters. Haters is spelled like my last name with a Y H A Y T E R. Come along. You do the journey.

[Kaylory]

You do a blog on your website, which is I do. And also you can watch the full video episodes on my patreon patreon.com kayllory and that's it. Happy holidays. Happy new year.

[Becky Hater]

Happy new year everyone. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you all.

[Kaylory]

See ya.

[Becky Hater]

See ya. Hi, I'm Stassi Schroeder. On my podcast I share candid updates from my personal life, chat with some of my best friends about what's going going on in our lives, give commentary on the latest pop culture headlines, and sometimes deep dive into random topics. I'm obsessed with, like, human design. It's a bit all over the place, but that's how I like it. And you will too. Listen to my podcast, Stassi, wherever you get your podcasts.