Gratitude Makes Life Worth Living

Summary

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Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Episode: Gratitude Makes Life Worth Living
Date: October 14, 2025
PodcastOne

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Episode Overview

In this candid and emotionally charged episode, Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter reunite to discuss the ups, downs, and messy in-betweens of life in their 30s. The central theme is the power of gratitude and perspective, even in the face of loss and change. Becky bravely opens up about her recent miscarriage and IVF journey while Kail shares her support and related experiences. The two also explore friendship dynamics, family joys, and find light-hearted moments amid heavy topics. The episode is a raw, honest portrayal of modern adulthood, resilience, and the healing that can come from sharing your story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reconnecting and Inclusivity in Community

• The episode opens with playful banter about time zones and the community built around their podcast and book club.
• [00:21] Kail: “We are inclusive of all countries and time zones.”
• Both hosts express excitement about new podcast merch and discuss its fashion, humorously suggesting their collective “lesbian” aesthetic.

2. Becky’s Miscarriage and IVF Journey

• Becky reveals her recent miscarriage following a successful IVF transfer that turned tragic. She describes the emotional, physical, and relational toll of IVF and loss.
• [03:08] Becky: “I think this is a part of my healing journey — letting people in. I think it’s important for us to share so that other people can feel less alone.”
• Details include the anticipation, loss of heartbeat, and difficulty of deciding between waiting or surgical intervention (DNC).
• Becky emphasizes gratitude for her existing family, especially her child Bex, and the support she received from friends and family.
• [04:06] Becky: “I came home to Bex just smiling at me… I’m so thankful for him… I’m obsessed with this child, and I’m so happy and thankful that I have him.”
• Discussion of the compounded stress of infertility, IVF medications, and the mental toll.
• [07:25] Kail: “IVF… it takes a toll on you mentally. Your body is going through one thing, but your mind is somewhere else.”

3. Honest Grieving, Humor, and Moving Forward

• Becky shares her approach to grief, using projects (like renovating her garage into an office) to stay occupied.
• Both use dark humor to cope: “Even the best fall down sometimes” [02:17] and jokes about reviving embryos with physical labor [09:52].
• Becky clarifies she is mourning not just the embryo, but the physical ordeal and what her body has undergone.
• Plans to take a break from IVF and all related efforts until next year, focusing on healing.

4. IVF, Miscarriage, and Support Systems

• Kail draws parallels to her own miscarriage experience, stressing the unpredictability and emotional complexity.
• Discusses the unique pain for those who are open about fertility journeys and the awkwardness of community responses.
• [15:09] Becky: “It’s just another life lesson… people have asked me, ‘Where are you at in your journey?’… I’m thankful to have this platform to speak through it so that I can close that chapter.”
• Critiques how society approaches and speaks about miscarriage, the taboos, and supporting those going through loss.
• Becky voices hope that her experience doesn’t inhibit friends from sharing their own happiness and milestones.

5. The Power of Gratitude and Perspective

• Becky repeatedly returns to gratitude as an anchor through loss, highlighting her joy in the family she has.
• [20:28] Becky: “I have so much to be thankful for… Like, my life is perfect right now. So anything that comes next is just an addition.”
• Both discuss the coexistence of happiness and sadness and positive reframing.
• [30:05] Kail: “Negative and positive are allowed to coexist. You’re allowed to be sad… but if you keep reminding yourself of positive things, it’s just going to help.”

6. Friendships and Support During Crisis

• Appreciative mention of friends who showed up with flowers, meals, and kind gestures, reinforcing the importance of community when facing hard times.
• Becky shares, “I don’t feel like I need to be pregnant to fulfill my life… If I try one more time and do not get pregnant… that’s okay.” [22:33]

7. Book Club, Trips, and Travel Antics

• Recap of their Salem trip, including parenting mishaps and stroller struggles.
• Hilarious public encounter with fan confusion: a child mistaking a random older woman for Kail from “16 and Pregnant.”
  [36:02] Becky: “He goes, ‘Excuse me, ma’am, were you on 16 and Pregnant?’… Kale whips her head around and starts shopping… it was so funny.”
• Future plans for annual Salem trips and tips for traveling there with kids.

8. Pop Culture, Identity, and “Teen Mom” Legacy

• Kail expresses mixed feelings about being recognized for “Teen Mom” and the challenges of outgrowing a reality TV label.
• [41:29] Kail: “I love that we’re creating a platform and a community that’s so separated from Teen Mom… I never thought that would be my claim to fame forever.”
• Lighthearted banter about Kris Jenner and glow-up aspirations.

9. Parenting Scenarios & Values

• Thoughtful debate on what they’d do if their kids gave up a D1 college spot for a romantic partner.
  [46:33] Kail: “I’m conflicted… if I’m paying for it, do I have a say?… For me, it’s about the trajectory of my child’s life.”
• Both stress the importance of independence, experience, and building connections in college beyond academics.

10. Book Recommendations & Friendly Dares

• Becky’s reading binge helps her cope; she reviews thrillers Never Lie and Housemaid, recommending them.
• Friendly reading bets lead to plans for wacky food-eating competitions.
• On reading habits:
  [59:33] Becky: “It’s a good book, and you’ll understand why fantasy is such a great genre.”
  Kail admits to never reading Harry Potter.

11. Listener Dilemma: Friendship Fallout

• Listener writes in about a fallout with an 18-year friend after a drunken misunderstanding.
  [65:24] Kail: “Seems like people have too big of an ego or pride to not talk.”
• Both recommend letting time pass, but acknowledge more context is needed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grief and Gratitude:
  “I came home to Bex just smiling at me… It just clicked in my head — holy shit, I’m so thankful for him.”
  — Becky [04:24]

• On IVF and Resilience:
  “IVF… it takes a toll on you mentally. Your body is going through one thing, but your mind is somewhere else.”
  — Kail [07:25]

• On Support Systems:
  “How lucky are we to have that support system in these moments?”
  — Becky [21:33]

• Life Perspective & Acceptance:
  “If Lee and I never have any more kids… we are so blessed with this perfect fucking child… So anything that comes next is just an addition.”
  — Becky [20:28]

• On Legacy and Identity:
  “I love that we’re creating a platform and a community that’s so separated from Teen Mom.”
  — Kail [41:29]

• On Positivity and Coexistence:
  “Negative and positive are allowed to coexist.”
  — Becky [30:05]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:21 – Podcast inclusivity & global listeners
• 03:08 – Becky discusses miscarriage & IVF openly
• 04:24 – Gratitude amid grief
• 07:25 – The mental toll of IVF
• 11:16 – Light-hearted break with shopping talk
• 15:09 – Navigating miscarriage publicly
• 20:28 – Gratitude for family, even after loss
• 30:05 – On allowing positive and negative feelings to coexist
• 36:02 – Hilarious Salem meet-and-greet story
• 41:29 – Creating a post-‘Teen Mom’ identity
• 46:33 – Complex parenting hypothetical: college scholarships & relationships
• 59:33 – Becky on the fantasy genre’s appeal

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Tone & Style

• Tone: Relatable, raw, humorous, and unfiltered. Becky leans into dark humor while delivering vulnerable truths; Kail offers grounded empathy and curiosity.
• Language: Authentic, conversational, peppered with candid anecdotes, expletives for emphasis, and a strong sense of camaraderie.

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Takeaways

• Sharing Grief Promotes Healing: Becky’s openness about loss offers comfort and camaraderie for listeners going through similar struggles.
• Gratitude Changes Perspective: Both hosts highlight the transformative power of focusing on what you still have amid setback.
• Friendship and Community Matter: Shared struggles and gestures of kindness, from both friends and fans, are what carry us through tough times.
• It’s Okay to Let Joy and Sorrow Coexist: A recurring theme is that happiness does not cancel out pain — there’s space for both.
• Don’t Put Life on Pause for Others: The D1-college debate reinforces letting kids chase dreams, not relationships.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a testament to the healing power of vulnerability, laughter, and deep conversations about things we’re often taught not to say out loud. With real talk about miscarriage, family upheaval, evolving friendships, and gratitude as a tool for resilience, Kail and Becky remind listeners that even in chaos, there’s still karma — and joy — to be found.

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For more, find Becky at @hater25 everywhere and tune into “For the Haters.” Don’t miss their next Salem adventure and be sure to check out Karma & Chaos merch!

Transcript

[Kayl]

Hello, Rebecca hater, first and foremost, good.

[Becky]

Morning, good evening, good day, good night to my Karmarus.

[Kayl]

Speaking of good morning, good day, good night, whatever. We did book club live the other night, and Kat is a Turtle in Chapter 7 Book Club, and she gets on stage to have a conversation with us with Carter Wilson, and it is middle of the night, right? Like, the Chapter 7 live was 7:30pm Eastern Standard Time. She's in the UK and it was in fact, like, one or two in the morning. So I want to apologize to you for giving you such a hard time for saying that, because you know what? We are inclusive of all countries and time zones.

[Kayla]

Kayl.

[Becky]

It's not even about a time zone.

[Kayla]

It's.

[Becky]

People listen to it at different times of the day.

[Kayl]

Oh, well, I. Okay. I would also like to acknowledge the fact that we match today in two different merches. You guys can go over to for the haters, listen to the podcast, but I am wearing Karma and Chaos University. And this was brought to you by all of our karmarus that have attended Karma and Chaos University.

[Becky]

I. I'm jealous because I do love the merch. It's been a while. It's good to be back. It's.

[Kayl]

You know, I was just gonna say really quickly that we could style the merch, like, show people how to wear it so it's not just like. And I'm not like, the most fashion forward.

[Becky]

So you want every single Karmaroo to dress like a lesbian?

[Kayl]

If the two of us like a lesbian.

[Becky]

Yeah. If the two of us style it, it's gonna be like, a T shirt with a flannel and, like, true socks and a beanie. Yeah.

[Kayl]

Our freaking video of us, like, doing all this stuff. And I never realized, like, how much I do, in fact, look like a lesbian until I saw myself in crew socks and sneakers. Okay.

[Becky]

Yeah, well, even the best fall down sometimes, you know?

[Kayl]

No, I love being a lesbian.

[Becky]

What are you looking at?

[Kayl]

Trying to get something to upload that won't upload. Okay.

[Becky]

Anyways, I'm happy. We're happy to be back. I don't know if I don't know the structure of how we should do this, because I do want to address some things. I initially.

[Kayla]

Well, my eyes are ready. What the hell, Kale?

[Kayl]

I'm really sorry.

[Kayla]

I thought. You know, I've been mentally preparing to talk about this, and I was fine up until five minutes before recording, and I got so overwhelmed and. Not that I don't want to talk about it, because I do.

[Kayl]

I think it's Important.

[Kayla]

I think this is a part of my healing journey of. Is, like, letting people in. I think I've always been really honest and, like, open about my life and, like, the struggles because I think it's important for us to share so that other people can feel less alone.

[Becky]

Right.

[Kayla]

So as you guys, I'm like, I really didn't think I was going to cry. I don't know why.

[Kayl]

I don't know what I thought. I think I disassociated for you.

[Becky]

Two months ago, I did a transfer.

[Kayla]

And it was successful until it was. Until it wasn't. So Tuesday, I found out that I did. What the is going on? I haven't been upset about this since I found out.

[Becky]

Sorry.

[Kayl]

Do not apologize.

[Kayla]

I did find out that I had a miscarriage. And so while Kayl was dealing with the death of her dad, I was dealing with the death of an embryo. And so it was just. It was a week of a lot. I mean, there's, like, a lot of things that I've been thinking about and want to say. Overall, I am okay. I think that there's probably going to be a lot of people on here that have experienced it. Unfortunately, it's something that's really common, and I. It's something that I've always, like, had in the back of my mind. So I feel like I was. I prepared myself for it. Obviously, you can never really prepare of everything. And so we. I went to go get an ultrasound, and during that ultrasound, we. They weren't able to find a heartbeat. And they were the week before. So, yeah, I, like, got home. I was upset, rightfully so, but I. I came home and I want to.

[Becky]

Make sure that I preface by anything.

[Kayla]

That I'm about to say is, like.

[Becky]

My experience of it. Just because this is what I use to help me get through it.

[Kayla]

I don't want it to discredit how.

[Becky]

Someone else healed from it or wasn't.

[Kayla]

Able to heal from it. But when I came home, I came home to, like, Bex just, like, smiling at me. And, like, for whatever reason, like, it just, like, clicked in my head. Like, there was, like, a switch in me that, like, was like, holy shit. Like, I'm so thankful for him. And, like, obviously I've talked about it on here. Like, I've struggled with the connection with him and struggled with, like, my love for him. And it was like a weird. Just like, holy shit. I'm obsessed with this child, and I'm so happy and so thankful that I have him. And even, like, Leah, like, I Feel like Leah and I have also been going through the trials of, like, having, like, having a newborn, and, you know, like, it's no longer us. Our relationship is no longer a priority. And I feel like the past 10 years, like, that's been a huge part of my identity, was, like, my love for her and, like, my love for our relationship. And even with this, I feel like it softened us from, like, the past couple months of us just, like, focusing on surviving. And so with that, I've just, like, been so thankful for my life and, like, my friends and my family that it's, like, just helped with all of the healing of things that come from the loss. And quite, quite honestly, for me, the morning was more so of, like, what I was doing to my body than it was the loss of the embryo itself.

[Becky]

Like, IVF is hard.

[Kayla]

Like, the medicines you up, like, it's. It's a lot. And so, like, doing them for so long, even before the transfer, all you can think about is, holy. I have to go through all of that again. Like, I have to go, like, to be able to have a child. Like, I have to go through that all. All again. And so it's just been. It's been a Time takes a.

[Kayl]

Like, a toll on you mentally. Like, your body is going through one thing with ivf. It's taking a mental toll as well.

[Becky]

Yeah, I think that I feel. I mean, I was fine, and I.

[Kayla]

Was doing, like, okay. I. I know that this has some.

[Becky]

So yesterday I went to the doctor.

[Kayla]

And, like, I decided I'm going to do surgery next week because the whole.

[Becky]

Like, waiting around is, like, not for me. Like, I'm, like, mentally, like, I just.

[Kayla]

Can'T deal with, like, when is it gonna happen? When is it gonna pass?

[Becky]

Like, it's really hard, and it's, like.

[Kayla]

It me up even more because, like, you feel, like, a sense of hope that maybe they're wrong because, like, nothing has happened. I'm not bleeding. I'm not in pain. And so I'm just, like, really struggling with that. And so I went to the doctors yesterday, and I decided next week. So when this airs, the next day, I'm gonna get the dnc and I'm actually getting another ultrasound because mentally, I'm like, what if the first one was wrong? So, like, I'm gonna go for another ultrasound on Monday just to, like, confirm. Like, double confirm. So after next week, hopefully my. My healing will just start. Like, I can kind of move forward. And then Lee and I decided we're.

[Becky]

Kind of just taking a Break.

[Kayla]

Well, I'm taking a break from everything until.

[Becky]

Till next year, so that's the update. So if you were mad at me.

[Kayla]

For not being on, I hope you.

[Becky]

Have some type of sympathy for me.

[Kayl]

I don't want to laugh. Like, I don't even know. I don't say anything because I just want to support you. I feel like if I talk about anything else at this point, it's like, if missing you, if anyone knows anything.

[Becky]

I'm like, such a dark humor person.

[Kayl]

Same.

[Becky]

I jumped right into a project, like, we were talking, and I'm like, I literally just bought all the materials to build my garage out into my office. That's what I do in, like, times of struggle. Like, I need to just stay occupied and stay busy.

[Kayl]

Well, then I would like to apologize to you and to our listeners because I basically removed you from that recording and was like, you need to breathe and take time. And Becky was like, no, I just carried all this up to my office, and I'm like, I can't participate in this because you need a moment.

[Becky]

But, yeah, speaking of carrying all that up, I carried, like, 45 sheets of double drywall up my steps with this guy that delivered them. I died. Like, I literally was like, if it wasn't. I was so embarrassed to stop. So I, Like, I kept going and. And I walked inside and my face was red, and Leah's looking at me, and I'm like, leah, like, I need to go get another ultrasound right now, because I probably just shocked that thing back to life.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Becky]

So we had a good laugh there.

[Kayla]

It's been a.

[Becky]

It's been a time. It's. It's weird. It's a weird. Like, I. I was doing okay, and then there's just moments of just like. And it's really just grief around my body. Like, I'm. I'm really just like, I. I fortunately didn't feel like. It was like a. Like, I don't feel like I lost a child. And that's just how I feel because, like, it was still early. Like, I didn't. I'm not mourning that loss. Like, it's just. That's not how I'm. How I'm processing it. It's just like, dude, like, every shot for the past, like, four or five months, I've taken all for nothing, and then I've just started all over again. So.

[Kayl]

Okay. I just placed my skims order for their holiday collection, and I did the cypress green sleep set. I'm super, super excited. I love skims. You guys know that I wear it all the time. You guys have to try skims because I'm telling you, before skims underwear was always an afterthought for me and now I can wear skims undies.

[Becky]

I like to get skims for Lia because she deserves to feel fantastic in whatever she wears and the fits Everyday Lace Tanga specifically is something that she has not taken off. It's made with the same buttery soft fits everyday fabric that everyone is obsessed with, but with a delicate lace trim that adds the perfect touch of sexy. It's hands down the most comfortable underwear that I've given her and it makes her feel amazing every time she wears it.

[Kayl]

Shop our favorite bras and [e-mail] and app after you placed your order. Be sure to let them know that we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select Karma and Chaos in the drop down menu that follows.

[Becky]

Guess what?

[Kayl]

What?

[Becky]

I used my Quint sleep sack last night for the first time and Bex had one of the best night's sleeps that he's ever had.

[Kayl]

I love that. And cooler days call for layers so you guys can get them on quint. Think about $50 Mongolian cashmere premium denim sleep sacks for babies. We love that. And luxe outerwear. These are pieces that turn into your fall uniform and I'm obsessed.

[Becky]

I'm eyeing their wool coats still. They look designer level but cost a fraction of the price and the quality. Honestly just as good, if not better because Quint partners directly with top tier ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. They deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless.

[Kayl]

And I definitely need smart purchases these days. So I love that. Quint is great. You guys can find your fall staples at quint. Go to quinn.comkarma for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's q-u I n c e.comkarma to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comkarma so if you don't mind me asking, can you will you talk about how like all the medicine that you're taking for IVF keeps you pregnant? And that's part of the reason, potentially part of the reason why the it'll take longer hasn't expelled it. But what would you Can I talk about mine or would you rather just no.

[Becky]

Yeah, please do. Yeah.

[Kayl]

So I had a miscarriage in 2016 and it took over two months, it still did not come out. And so they ended up giving me chemo shots in my butt to expel it. On the flip side of that, go to an ultrasound on a Thursday or a Friday with Rio, no heartbeat. By Tuesday, he. By Monday or Tuesday he. It. They were able to find a heartbeat. Yeah, you just like never know what you're. What's gonna happen. And to your point, like, maybe your story will help, but like keeping you pregnant because of the meds is also. Could be a factor. Right.

[Becky]

For sure. And I stopped my meds the day that I found out. So like, but also I've had a. I've had.

[Kayla]

Huh.

[Kayl]

Like cold turkey.

[Becky]

Yeah. Besides, one of them you have to wean off of.

[Kayl]

Okay. But the rest, like, you're. It's fine to like just stop.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Yeah. And so, but like with it, like I've been taking progesterone, I've been taking estrogen. So like my body is like just fueled right now for pregnancy. And so it's like holding on and like nurturing still. Like, it's not just like allowing. And that's. And you know, I didn't. Like, it's not just like you get to be told that like you are having a miscarriage and like that's it. Like you have to make decisions now. Like do you wait, not like for it to naturally pass? Do you get. Have like surgery or do you just take a pill? That's going to help. And, and it's just, it's like weird, right? Like you're walking into an office and like there's some irony. Like the, the doctor that's doing my DNC is the doctor that birthed Bex. Right. So like there's just some like weird irony to like the whole situation, like we're walking in with our three month old and like having to also mourn. And people are awkward, right? Like people are awkward and uncomfortable around like these conversations. But it's, you know, it's just another life lesson of like, people have asked me, oh, where are you at in your, in your journey? Which is normal. Because I'm so like forward facing and that's why, like, I'm excited. Not excited. Like, I'm thankful to be able to have this platform to like speak through it so that like I, I can close that chapter so people don't feel like they have to ask me that because I feel bad. Because it's like, you know, how, how bad would someone feel if they came up to me? They're like, oh, where Are you on your fertility journey? And it's like, oh, I just miscarried. And then it's like, oh, God, like, what? You know, but it makes you think, like, how do you like asking around those questions?

[Kayl]

So is, is that what sort of played into you getting doing the transfer and not telling anyone?

[Becky]

Because oh, for sure, a hundred percent.

[Kayl]

That you with Creed. I guess it was for your birthday weekend.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Guys told me that you had done it, so.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

And I don't expect you to tell me every single thing that you guys choose to do. Like, and so I was shocked that you did it and didn't talk about it. Shocked, indifferent. But, like, I don't know how to. Like, I wasn't happier. I was just like, whatever you guys felt was best. But is that part of the reason why you didn't want to share it in case this, like, yeah, I, I.

[Becky]

I didn't want for people to ask, like, how the transfer went if it wasn't successful.

[Kayl]

Okay.

[Becky]

And we expected to not have a successful transfer. Like, we, that's why we started so early. And then like, we thought it was going to take multiple times, which now we know it might. And even like, and that that was hard too. Right. Like, we had to sit there and think about all the people we told that we had a successful transfer to let them know that, like, I miscarried. And I don't regret telling people because, like, it's really nice of the support I've had like, since, like I've had to tell my friends and things like this, like the support, the check ins of like, I appreciate beyond anything. And so I, I'm happy and sad in the same breath because, like, it was a lot to have to like, do, you know, a tour of letting people know that, that the pregnancy was no longer viable and you know, having to tell our parents and just like, things like that. My, like, my mom was great about it. Like, she also was saying that how she's had a couple miscarriages and things of those sorts. And it's just weird. It's like a weird, like, surreal thing because it happens so much and you don't know. I don't know why.

[Kayla]

I don't know.

[Kayl]

I wonder what it is that makes it like, so hard to talk about it is that we don't know what to say when someone miscarries. Like, I don't really know what the taboo.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Are around it.

[Becky]

Yeah. Like, how do you even cut, like how do you even comfort someone? Because everyone is gonna have different feelings around It Right.

[Kayl]

Like some people will be in your situation and feel the loss of a child where you're. You personally do not feel the loss of a child. I think that, yeah, to your point, like, different people will have different perspectives on that, especially in your situation where you're actively trying to get pregnant. And so, and then, I mean, I remember a cousin said to my face, like, she was devastated that I got pregnant as a teenager because she was a full blown adult and couldn't get pregnant and was very devastated by that. And so it's like, that's the tricky subject too, for some people. Yeah.

[Kayla]

But I don't.

[Kayl]

Is it.

[Becky]

Like, I hope that me going through this, I have a couple friends that are trying and I have a couple friends that are about to have kids. Like, I hope it doesn't discredit them from. Or dislike. What is the word I'm looking for? Like, me, like them not coming to me and their happiness because I'm going through this. Because I don't feel that way. Like, I don't. And like, I don't feel like, why do I deserve this and someone else doesn't type of thing that I just don't think that's how my brain works anyway. So if you're listening and you're my friend, I hope this doesn't prevent you from sharing your happiness.

[Kayl]

I mean, that's really, really, like, I don't want to say big of you, but like, considerate. Like, I don't.

[Becky]

I know. I just have so, like, I have so much to be thankful for. Like, and it just puts things into perspective. Like if, if Leah and I and Lee and I agreed on that, agree on this, like, if Lee and I never have any more kids, if that's something that can't happen for us, like, we are so blessed with like this perfect fucking child. Like, you know, like, and so like, my life is perfect right now. So anything that like comes like next is just an addition to it. And so, like, I'm just so thankful for, for the life that I have that it just makes everything easier to process and like, to like, deal with 100. Like, I literally came home and just like, looked at the accent was like, holy. Like, I love this kid so much and like, he is so perfect. And like, I like, wow. Like, my life, I can't ask for.

[Kayl]

More, you know, so I'm gonna adopt that mentality. Thank you so much.

[Becky]

I mean, it's just, it makes life livable. Like, life is hard. And like, especially in the world that we live in, like, everything hard. So just, like, appreciating the little things and just. I don't know, like, I. It made me even more appreciative of, like, certain friends, too, right? Like, you see people who care for you and, like, how lucky am I that I had friends that cared enough to, like, ask how they can support me, that, you know, like, you sent me flowers. I had a friend send me dinner that night. Like, I had a. Like, Carson and Kelsey dropped off food. They didn't even say anything. They dropped off dinner for a couple nights on our deck. And, like. Like, how lucky are we to have that support system in, like, these moments? So if I'll try one more time. And that's. And that's also another thing. I don't feel like I need to be pregnant to fulfill my life. Some women do. And, like, I understand that, but that's just not me. So, like, if I try one more time and I do not get pregnant and have a successful pregnancy, like, that's. That's okay. Leah can get pregnant.

[Kayla]

Like, that's not for me.

[Becky]

Well, but you. You sure should know I'm not telling anyone if I do a transfer, if I'm pregnant until I get to, like, 20 fucking weeks or something.

[Kayl]

I don't blame you at all. I do not blame you at all. I think that you have to do what's right for your family. So.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Foreign.

[Becky]

Message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program.

[Kayl]

Today is actually Buddha's birthday, and thank you. I really appreciate that. Buddha's great, but he also just recently had a really unfortunate vet visit. And with that being said, we all know that your pet is part of the family, right? So you do pretty much anything for them. We know. I talked about it on the last episode. You had ACL surgery for your dog before for. So they're part of the family. And these days, we ensure just about everything, right? So you might as well insure your pet as well. We ensure cars that lose value the second we drive them off phones that we trade in trips that we haven't even taken yet. But our pets, who truly are irreplaceable, go unprotected. But with ASPCA Pet Health Insurance, you can get help with unexpected vet bills to make sure that your dog or cat gets the carrot when they need it.

[Becky]

When you enroll in ASPCA pet health insurance plan, you could get a $25Amazon gift card. It's a little treat for you while you're doing something great for your pet. The program offers customizable accident and illness plans, making it easy to get your pet the care that they may need. You can tailor your plan to fit your budget, your lifestyle, and your pet's particular quirks, because big vet bills never show up when it's convenient.

[Kayl]

To Explore coverage, visit aspcapetinsurance.com Karma that's aspcapetinsurance.Com Karma Eligibility restrictions apply. Visit aspcapetinsurance.COM Amazon Terms for more info. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Ltd. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. This is an ad by Better Help. While we're recording this, it's October 10th World Mental Health Day and this year we're saying thank you to therapists. Better health therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys and behind every single one is a therapist who showed up, listened and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy like the right question, a safe space to cry or a small win can change lives. Even though Becky and I will probably cry no matter what, we certainly will.

[Becky]

And I just, you know, we are appreciating and showing appreciation for therapists. My therapist shout out to her because she gets me through the dark times and she supports me through everything and Better Help is shining the spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place.

[Kayl]

Better Help has quality therapists and they work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US. They also have a therapist match commitment where BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. You just fill out a short questionnaire, it helps identify your needs and preferences and then their 10 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means that they typically get it right the first time. But if you aren't happy with your first therapist, you can switch to a different therapist at any time for no additional charge. And you guys can go read the client reviews. They have over 30,000 therapists and BetterHelp is the worst world's largest online therapy platform Having served over 5 million people globally and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

[Becky]

This World Mental Health Day we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward if you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10 off their first [e-mail] Karma that's better. H E L P.com Karma and also to wrap this up, if I get fat in the next, which I've already gained like 10, I gained weight after I get off my IVF meds. So if you're like, becky, what the hell is going on? Leave me alone. I'm about to go on Ozempic. I'm about to get whatever it's called, Botox. I'm coming back stronger.

[Kayl]

Anyway, I think that you are a very strong person and I'm really proud of you.

[Kayla]

I love you. Thank you.

[Becky]

I missed you too. But I think, I think we should.

[Kayla]

Talk a little bit more about Salem.

[Kayl]

Okay.

[Becky]

Unless there's any other more questions from the peanut gallery.

[Kayl]

No, none from me. But I do anticipate that the listeners are going to have a lot of questions. If you're up for a conversation after this airs, there's a positive. People will want to share their stories or their questions. And so I just. If that's something that you're open to for our next recording, I, you know, you can say or not say it.

[Kayla]

Yeah, I'm an open book also.

[Becky]

You look great.

[Kayl]

I do?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Well, thanks. I. I'm healing. I don't know about my lips still. It's getting there maybe. But I, it does look like it.

[Becky]

Has some movement or maybe I'm just getting used to it.

[Kayl]

I think people are getting used to it, which is really hard. You can see it more. Yeah.

[Becky]

But like it's not like it's definitely improving or something. Yeah.

[Kayl]

Well, she put one unit of dysport on this side and the plastic surgeon was basically like I could go a little bit more so that it's even. I do have a follow up appointment the day this airs. I have a follow up appointment to look at like steroid options and other. Maybe acupuncture. Funny enough physical therapy to see if we can even it out.

[Kayla]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

But I was apprehensive to post some of the pictures from Salem because I noticed like it feels like I look like.

[Becky]

Jimmy.

[Kayl]

What's his name? Jimmy Neutron in the, in the mask. Like all chin. That's what it feels like when I look at my pictures. Specifically. This side is like real heavy on the chin. You know what I mean?

[Becky]

Yeah. We should move past that eventually.

[Kayl]

Okay.

[Becky]

You look great. You look like. You look like. I don't Know, it feels like even, like your energy is better.

[Kayl]

Really? Because I've been negative all week.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Negative this week.

[Becky]

Well, you should turn that around. Maybe it's just because I'm here now.

[Kayl]

Honestly, what you said about, like, how lucky are you that you have a lot. Like, the life that you have in the support system is like, something that I is gonna stick with me for a long time, and I hope to use that right there. It's like, okay. I have been focusing so heavily on the negative that it's hard to not be negative.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

So when you put it into that perspective, it's like, makes more sense. It makes it a little bit easier to look at the good. Does it? You know, because people like, oh, like, be happy with what you have, or, like, it's not that bad, or it could be worse, but it's never, like, look at the life I live. So, yeah, there are negative things happening, but, like, look at the life I lit. You know what I'm saying?

[Becky]

And negative and positive are allowed to coexist. Right. Like, you're allowed to be sad and. And feel things of, like, negative or sadness or anger or whatever it is. But, like, ultimately, if you keep reminding yourself of positive things, it's just going to help. What did. So I talked about this on here of when Natasha came here, and she left post it notes. So Natasha came with us to Salem, and Kayl got to meet her and her husband Alcides for the first time.

[Kayl]

I love them so much. Like, I. I love them like, they are such good people and just, like, good energy and just. I don't know, like, they're a breath of fresh air. And I.

[Becky]

What did Natasha's post it note say?

[Kayl]

Oh, okay. I did take a picture of it because. And maybe Lissa can post it on Carmine Chaos Socials.

[Becky]

Natasha got coffee for everyone and. Or Al did or someone. And Natasha put a post it note on Kale's coffee.

[Kayl]

And this from a couple episodes back. It was, like, a few weeks ago. Becky was telling a story about Natasha, who is his best friend, who basically did all the things for them after their embryo transfer. And then also after Beck was born. Yeah, she put post it notes all over the place. And so she texted me, like, on the side out of our group chat, which already I was like, she hates my guts. Like, she. And she was like, hey, like, Al's going to get coffees. Like, can I. Can we get you something? And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, thank you. And there was two. She left it outside my door. And then there was two post it notes and it said you owe yourself the love you freely give to others. And the second one under it was like, I heard you need some of my affirmations or my post it notes.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

She also said that she is like a. An avid listener of karma and chaos, so I appreciate her so much.

[Kayla]

That's so cute.

[Becky]

She's also. That's. Those are Bex's air quote godparents, so.

[Kayl]

Oh, I love that though. I mean, you have to.

[Becky]

So Salem was a really good time. Salem is like our favorite place. Becks was really good. But I will however, say one thing I was not prepared for as a new parent and traveling with a kid. The hardest part for us was having a stroller. A stroller is so inconvenient. Like the size of it, bringing it places.

[Kayl]

And what's crazy though is like, it is pretty, like your stroller is pretty compact. So it's not big, bulky ones that they had when Elliot was born or when Lincoln was born. It's like a more complex, complex, more compact stroller. But even just when we went, I think it was the witch's dungeon. And it was like, you got to leave the stroller. And it's like, well, where do you want us to put it?

[Becky]

Yeah, this thousand dollar stroller.

[Kayl]

You're like, I hope no one takes it kind of. Yeah, the witch's dungeon. I. Here's the thing about Salem. I plan to go every year for the rest of my life. And I also want people to understand. I'm going to do a video of like the do's and don'ts. I think I'm not as, like, I'm not a vet like you. But just after the first time, like, I learned very quickly how this needs to go. The thing about bringing kids to Salem is like, what? We are interested in the history of Salem because of the witch trials. I'm telling you right now, most children do not give one single. They don't care. Okay. Even I was like, okay, well, I'll bring Elliot and Lincoln because they'll understand, like, the history and it's like educational. And this is stuff that they're gonna learn in school, right? So I'm having a grand old time because I learned about it at two different school districts. And Lincoln's like not giving one single that these were real witch trials, like in real life, like, he didn't care. So if you bring your kids to Salem until they're old enough to fully respect and understand the history, it's just gonna Be a free for all. For them.

[Becky]

Yeah. Like you have to find stuff to entertain them with.

[Kayl]

Yes. But you should have done a haunted house. Well, so I. There are still things that I didn't get to do.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Oh, for sure. I did set an alarm on my phone for January 2nd to book for September 2000. And I double checked my custody arrangements. I also have all of my children that weekend. So it is very possible that I will bring Lux and Creed also next time. And I will not be flying to Salem ever again because that flight was 57 minutes and I paid for first class for a 57 minute flight on a plane this big. And so the first class was not first class. In fact, I was with everybody. So driving, riding dirty all the way to Salem next year.

[Becky]

Riding dirty.

[Kayl]

Yeah.

[Becky]

There was something really funny and I'm so glad that I wrote this down because I would have forgotten about it. There's something so funny that happened while we were in Salem and it was probably the funniest experience I've ever had with being with Kale in public. And so where you're going with this, as, as you guys probably are aware, it actually wasn't too bad of people like coming up and asking for pictures and like saying hi. One thing, I will say bef.

[Kayla]

Go ahead.

[Kayl]

I disagree.

[Becky]

It wasn't as bad as other situations I've been in.

[Kayl]

Oh, okay. But it was. I mean, yeah, I think that's what it was.

[Becky]

One thing that's so funny to me is when people call your name and call you the wrong name and like if. It just like cracks me up inside. But okay, so we were walking in the.

[Kayl]

Whatever you're about to say, do I. Am I aware?

[Becky]

Yes. And so we're walking in the park and this poor kid goes up to this woman who is probably 60 years old right next to us, right? And he goes, excuse me, ma', am, were you on 16 and pregnant? And Cal whips her head around the other way and starts shopping like, because he didn't. He wasn't talking to her. He was literally like a 60 year old woman. And she like looks at the kid and like looks at, I think it's her daughter or someone like a younger girl that she was with. And they were like looking at each other so confused. And they were like, no. And they start laughing. The poor kid walks away and then asks another person if they're from 16 pregnant because their mom told them that someone was over there.

[Kayl]

Why would that poor child's mom do that?

[Becky]

It was so funny. And the person, we were looking at pins and the person that was selling the pins was like, why does he keep saying that? And I'm like, I don't know. And then finally he came up to you and you were like, yes.

[Kayl]

I didn't say yeah. I said it was you.

[Becky]

I said, oh, yeah, you said it was me. And I was like, come on. And then I was like, no, it's her. And he was like, oh, that's so cool. That was it.

[Kayl]

I just like, I never know how to react to those things because it's like, I don't want to be like, yeah, it was me. I was on tv. Like, I don't love that. But I also like this poor kid, like, his mom really embarrassed the out of him.

[Becky]

Yeah, it was so. I was.

[Kayla]

I was laughing so hard.

[Kayl]

I have my period right now. And whether I'm dealing with period symptoms, supporting my fertility like Becky is, or just trying to feel my best every single day, Parallel has something specifically designed for where I am right now. With no more generic multivitamins.

[Becky]

For too long, we've been stuck with generic one size fits all vitamins. And the work is put on us to know what additional supplements we need to support our symptoms. Parallel is reinventing vitamins from the ground up. As the first OB GYN founded vitamin company, they're defining a new era of women's health. One where your supplements actually understand your hormones, your life stage and your unique needs. It's about time.

[Kayl]

These are comprehensive vitamin packs, doctor formulated routines and convenient daily packs. I'm obsessed with this, especially for travel. So for Salem, we're gone for four days. You grab four packs instead of bringing 12 bottles for all of your vitamins. And they have daily powders including protein, electrolyte, sleep support and greens powder, which is nice. And the daily powers that do more than just the basics. All powders are safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding, but are designed for all life stages. They're made with bioavailable ingredients your body can actually absorb. And exclusive for our listeners, new customers can get 20 off your first order with code karma, visit parallel health.com that's spelled P E R E L e l h E-A-L t h.com if you're tired of waking up hungover or worrying about what happened last night, Willy's is a great alternative to drinking alcohol because Willy's is THC infused social tonic. And Becky and I both got this and we're obsessed.

[Becky]

Yeah. And how can you fit it into your routine? Right, like there's some people that just want to take the edge off. They want to relax without alcohol. Wanting to avoid hangovers at all costs. This is a great substitute to really make sure you are staying on your game and replacing alcohol when needed. Weekend wind downs Creative sessions Willie's is.

[Kayl]

For all of these purposes and it's crafted by the legendary Willie Nelson. It was inspired by Willie's way of living where peace flows freely and hangovers are a thing of the past, which I never want to struggle with a hangover. Like I've had one, maybe two hangovers my whole life and I would just never. I would love to never experience that again. Willie's is not the feared edible that you ate too much of in college. Each bottle of Willys is third party lab tested for accurate dosage so you can trust and customize your experience. Willie's unique blend of thc, cb, CBG and L Theanine delivers a feeling of calm, clarity, euphoria and relaxation. One shot of Willies will help you relax, unwind and de stress.

[Becky]

Willie sold out three times in the first six months with over 50,000 happy customers and they just restocked. Willy ships directly to your doorstep in 40/states. Order now at drink willys.com and use code karma for 20% off your first order plus free shipping on orders over $95. And enjoy life in the high country. And then that next day I woke up and like, Leah's like, becky, what is this? And then it was like a video of us at in Salem that someone posted. She was like, this is so weird.

[Kayl]

Someone sent it to me, like, texted it to me and I was like, what the. Like, they're literally taking like, what is that? Like, it's a whole account. And they like put my Snapchats together and they like take videos of me and then post them and act like it's like, me. Yeah, I don't know, but I. I'll tell people it's you that was on 16 and pregnant until the end of time. Weren't you on Team Mom?

[Becky]

Are you Becky from Teen Mom?

[Kayl]

Are you Becky, Becky from Karma? Actually a lot of people said, I.

[Becky]

Love you guys podcast.

[Kayl]

I love your podcast. And so I love that we're creating a platform and like a community that's so separated from Teen mom. Because for sure, I don't think that when I started Teen Mom I ever thought that I would. That would be my, like, claim to fame forever. And like, I feel bad because, like, even Chelsea from Teen mom is on hd, but people still know they don't say Chelsea from hgtv. They say, yeah, you will have that.

[Becky]

Brand for your entire life.

[Kayl]

Yeah, for sure. It's like, how do I. Should I contact Kris Jenner and be like, basically, how do I get out of this? Because she got Kim from sex tape to, like, billionaire. So, like, should I just reach out to Chris and be like, hey, I have a male empire versus a girl empire. Like, what do I do?

[Becky]

It's funny you bring her up because it's a tick tock of her popped up on my tick tock yesterday and it was Chris Appleton or whoever, her hairstylist.

[Kayl]

Oh, okay.

[Becky]

And the beginning of the tick tock, I did not know it was her. Like, you could have shown me the picture of her, actually.

[Kayl]

Chris.

[Becky]

Chris. Like it. Like, not in, like a bad or a good way. It was just like, I saw it and I'm like, oh, I wonder who that is. And then there's like a transition part of it. And I was like, oh. I was like, holy. Wait, look.

[Kayl]

Oh, well, because she just had, like, the best face.

[Becky]

But, like, that doesn't look like her.

[Kayl]

I think it's the towel just throwing everybody off.

[Becky]

Then that looks like her.

[Kayl]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Becky]

But, like, in the beginning, I was like, I don't even know who that is. And then I was like, oh, whoa.

[Kayl]

If I look like Kris Jenner, I'll live forever. But if I start to get wrinkly, I'm out.

[Becky]

Well, they have solutions for that.

[Kayl]

I'm never going through what I just went through ever again. Okay.

[Kayla]

No Botox.

[Kayl]

Yeah, I do that.

[Becky]

Yeah. So Salem on the list again next year.

[Kayl]

You.

[Becky]

Oh, I have a bone to pick with you. Because last episode we recorded together, you said for people to hit you up as a plug for Labubus.

[Kayl]

I shouldn't have done that.

[Becky]

Yeah, because you know what? People reach out to me to get to you because I'm easier to reach than you are.

[Kayl]

Now they're reaching out to you about Labubus.

[Becky]

So if you're listening and you're this person, this isn't specifically about you. I sometimes go through spurts of answering people, like dms. Like, I'll read my requested DMS and I'll go through spurts of, like, answering them if they're really nice messages. Like sometimes when I'm like. Like, I'll probably go through another spurt of answering people after this episode comes out of people, like, sending really nice messages about, like, the miscarriage and stuff. But then they have access to me after I. If I answer one dm, they have access to me for the rest of their life. Right. Like, I'm not gonna block them. Like, that's like. So people. Like, there's people who have access to me that I don't know. So they'll send me dms because I've answered one time. So people are asking for Labubus.

[Kayl]

They're also asking me for the boo boos. And like.

[Becky]

Yeah, but I. I have a soul that, like, feels guilty.

[Kayl]

So, like, you're saying I don't have a soul?

[Kayla]

No.

[Becky]

What do I do?

[Kayl]

You're.

[Becky]

You said you can get them. Blaboo boo. So how do I. How do we make this work out?

[Kayl]

I have given away all of the extra la boo boos that I've had. I have given them away two children. I don't have any extras in my possession any longer. So this is a message to let y' all know that I have gifted all of my boot labus extra ones.

[Becky]

So she. I tried.

[Kayl]

You did. And I. I did give a lot of them to children. No adults.

[Becky]

Did you see that case I sent you? The shadow box.

[Kayl]

I loved that idea. I just don't have anywhere to put it.

[Becky]

You have a whole content house. Put it somewhere there.

[Kayl]

It's not really the aesthetic here. You know what I mean? Like, this is going for, like, put.

[Becky]

It in a bathroom, make a bathroom. A Labubu themed bathroom.

[Kayl]

Yeah, I like that idea a lot. I was thinking I could do a Christmas tree and hang them on the Christmas tree.

[Becky]

You don't even celebrate Christmas.

[Kayl]

I know. There's quite a few topics that we had in mind for this episode, and I think we've covered zero of them. Okay. I wanted to ask you a question that Elisa from book club brought to me this morning. She said, kale, if one of your kids was accepted into a D1 school, full ride, but they decided they didn't want to go because of a significant other, what would you do? What do you think you would do as a parent? Because obviously these are hypotheticals. We don't know until we're in that position.

[Becky]

I'd make them go.

[Kayl]

And it's so tricky because a child that is going to college and got accepted to the D1 school most likely is an adult. By definition, 18 years old. You're an adult. However, I did answer with some complex feelings on it because I don't necessarily think that it's that cut and dry. Right. Like, I know firsthand that a lot of relationships during that time don't work out. I said I would not be happy and I would, I guess, just support them through it. But it's interesting because if I'm paying for it, I'm conflicted on whether or not I have a say. So you got a full ride to a D1 school. Now you want to go to a D2 school or community college. I'm now responsible to pay for that. Because you're not going to. You're not going on, like, sports, right? Because this was pertaining to sports. I said, it's not solely about the education for me, it's about the trajectory of my child's life. Because if we've invested time and money into the sports to put the point that they are eligible to play for D1, it's not just about the education. It's also about, like, the investment. And then it's also about the connections that you make at a D1 school. And I say that because I had a conversation with my attorney about going to law school, and she flat out told me, kale, if you go to law school when the twins are in kindergarten, you're going to have a vastly different experience than someone who goes fresh out of high school because they're going to have the time to attend events and networking and this, that, and the third. I'm working full time, raising seven kids. Everyone has sports. I'm not going to develop the same connections and relationships that someone fresh out of college is. Same thing can be said for a D1 school, right? So I'm thinking. I think. I think it's Clemson. Don't quote me on this. If I'm wrong, feel free to, like, let me know politely. I think Clemson offers something for asl, and Elliot really wants to go to a school for asl. It's not a full academic scholarship or even partial to Clemson. And then was like, oh, on second thought, I don't want to go. I'd rather go to the community college here in Delaware. I'm going to question that. Because don't you want to build and foster and maintain the relationships that you meet at Clemson? Because at that point, it's not the level of education that I'm concerned about. It's about the real world where it's not what it's who you know.

[Becky]

So my experience of it, I'm such a big proponent of college from, like, an experience perspective. I think it forces people to, like, experience life in a way that they'll never get that opportunity to with the least amount of. And I speak this from a privileged perspective because I, of course was like I was paid to for sports and the things I didn't pay my parents covered, at least for my undergrad. It's like my opportunities stemmed from the relationships I made in college, not necessarily the education behind college. And especially like in this situation, it's a full ride. I would, I would hope, hope that I would have a good enough relationship with my child by the time that they're 18 making that decision, that they valued my opinion in the matter where it was like, hey, let's find a compromise. Let's why don't you bring your girlfriend or partner or boyfriend with you so that it doesn't deter you from like this or something. Because even like just getting away from your hometown is just like it's so valuable to meet people outside of like your county lines.

[Kayl]

Pretty soon you'll be able to get Beck started on high vitamins. But for now I'll just tell you how great their products are because these are vitamins that get shipped straight to your door. You don't have to add it to your grocery list and you don't have to send Leah out to go get them because they come right to your door. Children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise, filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy, drunk, growing kids should never eat. But that's why Haya was created. The pediatrician approved superpower chewable vitamin that everyone should give their kids. It's non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gluten free, nut free and everything else you can imagine. And it was designed for kids of all ages and sent straight to your door. Like I was saying. So parents have one less thing to worry about. Becks will love decorating the little jar that it comes in and Rio actually thinks these vitamins are candy. So I'm okay with that as long as long as it's healthy and beneficial.

[Becky]

And if you are tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens, Haya now has Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods, a chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids. Packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power development and digestion. Just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost for your kids that they will actually enjoy. Haya leads the way with third party testing so you can be sure products are both safe and nutritious. Every single batch is third party tested for heavy metals and microbials in a qualified FDA compliant lab.

[Kayl]

We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Get 50 off your first order. And to claim this deal you have to go to hayahealth.com Karma. This deal is not available on their regular website. So go to H I Y A H-E-A-L-T-.com karma and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. For my own kids, like, I hope that I'm instilling things in them now that they don't ever find themselves in a position where they're questioning whether they should. I mean I saw it in Elliot.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Change it like just from, you know, one relationship I saw like thing like almost like being. And I don't mean in a positive or negative way. Just I noticed that certain things that he had said to me were now influenced or different than what he and. And that happens life. But when it comes to the, the education aspect of it is like, I.

[Becky]

Don'T know if my kid came to me and said they didn't want to go because they don't. Aren't in love with playing sports anymore, that would be a different. Like I would respect that a hundred percent. But changing the trajectory of your life for a significant other at that young of ages.

[Kayl]

I don't know. I kind of actually take back what I said about understanding if they don't want to play sports anymore. If you got a full ride to a D1 school for sports.

[Becky]

Yeah. But ruin you.

[Kayl]

I know. But you might as well at least go for one year before you quit. Like at least try it. Do you know what I'm saying? Give it a shot so hard at all the sports. And now because it's a little bit challenging or obviously if it's taking a toll on your mental health or you get injured, like obviously different. There's. It's nuanced. Right. It's not just wet and dry. So I just feel like that conversation when she brought it to me, I was like, oh, yikes. Like I don't know because I'm thinking, I know ASL is not a sport, but similar concept. Same thing for Lincoln. If he's like, oh, I'm not going to Georgetown, which I don't even think can you get a scholarship to a private school?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Oh, okay. I felt like private is like you have to pay. He always said that he want to go to George Georgetown. I'm like, if you decided that you don't want to go there because your girlfriend or boyfriend is Saying like, no, stay home.

[Becky]

I couldn't imagine.

[Kayl]

No. I'm gonna riot same because at that point it's like I failed.

[Becky]

Yeah. Yeah. And even though that's not true. Right, like, but that's what it would feel like.

[Kayl]

It's like.

[Becky]

But I. I agree that that is exactly what it.

[Kayl]

So I just thought that was.

[Becky]

It's a great question. Great, great conversation starter. Speaking of book club, I finished your book.

[Kayl]

No, you didn't.

[Kayla]

Yes, I did.

[Kayl]

Housemate or never lie?

[Becky]

Both.

[Kayl]

I know you're lying.

[Becky]

I swear on Bex's life. I'm not lying. Yeah, I swear. Both books I finished.

[Kayl]

Okay.

[Becky]

I've been in a. A vulnerable place the past couple weeks and so reading has quite honestly saved me because I wasn't doom scrolling from everything. Like I literally has. I've read five books in the past like couple weeks. It's been crazy.

[Kayl]

You've read five?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kayl]

Because that's when you like started. Started to read.

[Becky]

Yeah, I got both of those done. I finished the two. The tandem read and then I finished a thousand page book. It was the Kingdom of Ash book. The last of the Throne of Glass series. It destroyed me.

[Kayl]

I was a fantasy book destroy someone. Like I'm out here. Like we were at football practice and somebody started their car and I panicked because I was like, where are my kids? Because the river is waiting is like realism. It's like real life. But like, how does a fantasy book to straight. Like I can't ever put myself in a. Like what is a fairy is gonna come murder the my book boyfriend? Like, what's happening?

[Becky]

No, listen. Throne. A Glass is a commitment. It's a nine book series.

[Kayl]

Oh, thank you.

[Becky]

I'm not asking you to read it. It's a nine book series. So like you really get to know every single character. And so in the last book, all hell breaks loose. And so it's not. And it's not about all losses. Like I was like, I was happy crying about situations of people reuniting and all it. I cried so many times I added probably like 30 marks to my cry log. Anyway, you're. You're deflected.

[Kayl]

Can you please send me your updated cryog?

[Becky]

Yes. Kayla and I made a bet and I have it on video. If I read her book, she would.

[Kayl]

I agreed to that. Under duress.

[Becky]

You didn't even know your dad was dead yet.

[Kayl]

Under duress. No, that is null and void because I was. No, like, basically what happened was. What is it called?

[Becky]

You were in a chipper mood, drinking your Coca Cola.

[Kayl]

I wasn't in a chipper mood. I'm never in a chipper mood.

[Becky]

You were in a chipper mood.

[Kayl]

It was basically like a virtual gun to Gail's head. Read this.

[Becky]

You made the promise. I didn't bring it to you.

[Kayl]

Me too.

[Becky]

No, you told me. She said, if you read this, I'll read 4th Wing. And I said, okay, bet.

[Kayl]

Why did Taylor text me and said, are you really reading this?

[Becky]

Yes. And you probably said, no.

[Kayl]

I did. I said, no. I'm not. Like, I just. I have to quit this podcast. There are two commitments that I have made that I am struggling. So if you. If anyone listening to this podcast has any advice for me, I am. I actively try to teach my kids to be a man of their word. Right. So try to follow the bouncing ball here. Right. And, like, so I need to lead by example. And so with that being said, I need to follow through on my bet. So there are two that I have lost at this point in the last six months that I am really, really struggling with, which is one, this reading. And another one is I have to cook a full blown meal. Okay. From scratch. And these two things in my life have put so much stress on me that, like, I can't sleep at night.

[Becky]

You could kill two birds with one stone and listen to the audiobook while you cook. So.

[Kayl]

Is there like a. Like a do that's like, okay, if I win this, I don't have to do either? And it's like, yeah, we'll have a race. It's like, get back with your ex or do this.

[Becky]

No, we'll have a race. A foot race.

[Kayl]

No, because I lost a foot race, which is how I ended up having to cook someone a meal. No, we will not do a foot race because I'm slow as.

[Becky]

Oh, you know what we could do?

[Kayl]

What?

[Becky]

I really wanted to see if you can eat a whopper in under a minute.

[Kayla]

And so we can.

[Becky]

No, I think the next time we're together, we have a competition to see who can eat it fast enough faster.

[Kayl]

Okay. And if I win. No, it's. No. The first thing you said was under a minute.

[Becky]

Now you're not going to be able to eat it under a minute. So I'm not really concerned.

[Kayl]

I. What I can't do is beat you, and I'm gonna practice leading up to this. So now I know what the challenge is. And now.

[Becky]

Fourth Wing. It's not that big of a deal.

[Kayl]

Don't judge me. Becky said at the beginning of this episode that happiness and sadness can coexist. So I can be happy that I'm gonna win this challenge and also sad that I got fat doing it. Okay. She also told me to be happy at how lucky I am for the opportunity for this challenge. Okay. So I am. Somebody saved me. I need help.

[Becky]

It's a good book, and you'll understand why fantasy is, like, such a great genre.

[Kayl]

I've never even read Harry Potter.

[Becky]

Okay. Neither have I.

[Kayl]

What?

[Becky]

I've never read Harry Potter. Are you gonna ask me what I thought of the books?

[Kayl]

Yeah, I am. That I got sidetracked. What did you think of the books? Did you love them? Did you hate them? And honestly, I won't accept any slander, so if it's not positive, we're moving on.

[Becky]

I liked them. They were enjoyable. They were quick. I think I'm trying to. I think I liked Never Lie Better. Yeah, I think I liked Never Lie Better because I was more shocked at it. Like, I was like, oh, I didn't really see that one coming because I really thought that the boyfriend. Oh, can I say something? Wait, just. If you're reading the book, pause this, because I do want to just say this out loud. I really thought, like, the boyfriend was gonna end up being ej, so, like, that in my mind, that's what I was, like, configuring. Like, I'm like, oh, this. Like. Like, he's definitely him and just, like, cosplaying in this house. So I was definitely more, like, surprised. But those kinds of books don't, like, don't do it for me. Like, fantasy books do. Like, I. In fantasy, I'm building a world. Like, I am imagining this new world. I'm creating characters. I'm, like, imagining and using so much creativity while I'm reading. So, like, I'm being fueled in. In life. Like, I walk around and I'm like, oh, this reminds me of this. This reminds me of that. I didn't get, like, that for those two books. The first one, I can see it's going to be a good movie.

[Kayl]

Here's the thing that, like, I. With me, having interviewed a lot of these authors. Colleen Hoover, Frida. I think the only one. Who else?

[Becky]

Jodi Picol.

[Kayl]

Jodi Pico. Like, I understand now, and I think Colleen Hoover was the first person to have said it on Barely Famous. If you haven't listened to it, go listen to the episode with Colleen. But she basically said that the. The books being, like, we'll say 300 pages has to go down to, like, 100 or 150 pages of a script for a movie. Problem that I'm having right now is, like, we know they have to take out details for it to make sense. In the movie Never Lie, the Housemaid and Verity, which are these two Never Lie and the House Meter by Frida and then Verity. But you need to read Verity if you haven't already. By Coho, you cannot take details out of those movies. So, yeah, like, for those. Like those books specifically, if you change anything, it just. It will. I can see why they did it. For it ends with us. Like, I get it. I see why they did it for Harry Potter. I see why they did it for certain ones. But Never Lie, the housemate and Verity are so specific that it would royally it up.

[Becky]

Well, I saw a clip that Frida said that she got a preview to the House made and that it made her. It made her, like, potentially want to write another one because of how good it was.

[Kayl]

I hope so, because. And I don't think Never Lie, I. It might have been optioned, but I don't know if it's in the works currently. I know the housemate is and I know Verity is, which is interesting because.

[Becky]

Like, production of that movie would be so cheap, right? Like, production of Never Lie would be so cheap because, like, it's all in one plate.

[Kayla]

It's.

[Becky]

Yeah, right. Like, it's not that high production cost, and it could be a good movie. Right? Like that. That would be a good movie as well. You need to read Fourth Wing.

[Kayl]

Okay, I'm going. I said I would. Unless I win this challenge, then I'm not. But if I.

[Becky]

But just, like, listen to the audio.

[Kayla]

The audiobook.

[Becky]

There's a theatric version of it. Some. Some people love theatric version. Audiobooks, books. I'm not a fan of a theatrical version. It means it's like. Like each character has a voice. Like it, like, ass.

[Kayl]

Full production. Those are my favorite. I do not want to hear an audiobook that is in the same for the entire time.

[Becky]

So you're in luck. Fourth Wing has a theatrical version of it, so get on it.

[Kayl]

Okay.

[Becky]

Look at this hair.

[Kayla]

I look like a mess.

[Becky]

Everyone just leave me alone.

[Kayl]

Is it karma or is it chaos? Okay, hold on. Let me pull. Okay. My best friend and I have been friends for 18 years. We're now 34 years old. I'm married, and she's in a semi serious relationship. We went on a weekend trip with my sister for her birthday. My sister is single and started talking to a guy at one of the bars we were at, my friend, let's call her Jenny. She started butting into my sister in this guy's conversation. Drinks were obviously flowing strong in everyone. I simply told Jenny to leave them to talk and come to the the bar with me to grab more drinks. She freaked out, saying that the guy was interested in her first and we were just bullying her and said we made her feel judged all weekend. She was over sharing most of the weekend telling bartenders about her last breakup before she started this new relationship with her girlfriend. She left the bar and I followed her to try to talk to her, but she took off. I called and text multiple times with no answer. She finally answered and it was a screaming match between the two of us that lasted about two hours. She ended up ubering back to the hotel alone. She told my sister the next morning that she wanted me to ride home with her so we could talk it out. So I did. And she didn't say a single word. I was annoyed, so I didn't talk either. It's been three months since that trip and I still haven't heard from her. He's been my best friend for half my life and I don't want to lose our friendship. But at the same time, if she's so willing not to speak to me, is our friendship even as important to her as it is to me? What would you do in this situation?

[Becky]

Can I just make some clarifying questions here? Did I see here girlfriend? Like, so she date, is dating a girl now?

[Kayl]

Maybe she's bisexual?

[Becky]

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. But like, and it was a dude at the bar?

[Kayl]

I think so.

[Becky]

Seems like there's bigger issues here.

[Kayl]

Seems like people have too big of an ego or pride to not talk.

[Becky]

Yeah, it sounds like insecurity.

[Kayl]

So what would you do?

[Becky]

Tough decision. How much, how much does her friendship to you matter? And like sometimes friendships go on a little bit of a hiatus to come back stronger. So like let her feels off. Something feels off.

[Kayl]

That just feels like a very little incident to end an 18 year long friendship or whatever.

[Becky]

Like yeah, but if they were screaming at each other over this, then like there has to be history behind something. Or like the girl is like unhappy in her relationship or, or was embarrassed. I don't know, like, or maybe she's not a good person and likes to cheat. I don't know.

[Kayl]

I don't know what I would do. I, I, if someone's not talking to me, I'm not talking to them. Like I'm not gonna be the bigger person so.

[Becky]

You remember that Teen mom episode where I said someone needs to be with the bigger person? And you're like, why?

[Kayl]

Because I'm sick of it. I'm sick of it. Why does the responsible one have to be the bigger person? Like, how about go straight to hell? I don't care.

[Becky]

Okay, we'll work on that too. But I. I need more information. Send another follow up.

[Kayl]

Yeah, we would love that. But other than that, like, please go look at our merch. Buy some merch. Go listen to. For the haters, where can people find you?

[Becky]

Hater25 on all social media platforms and for the haters with a y H a y T E R s Love love ya.

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[Kayla]

You will die in seven days.

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[Kayla]

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[Kayla]

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[Lauren]

Hi, I'm Lauren. And I'm Chandler. And we're the hosts of Pop Apologist podcast. A weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, Real housewives, drama, and anything and everything. Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that a listers might mean more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for pop apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.