← Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
If I Struck a Nerve, I'm Not Sorry
01:16:42
This week on BMND, Kail and Vee read a coparenTEA from a listener whose mom devised a bold plan to rescue her baby from an abusive ex. Kail discusses an article about Boy Meets World and the episode that left a lasting impact on Danielle...
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- [00:00]
Game Announcer
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- [00:48]
Parent 1
All right, baby mama, baby mamas crazy. I'm just checking my apps for school. I feel like there's so much going on for back to school still. And we're because it's still and then the south and like the Midwest have already been in school for so long, but I am still getting to know like teachers and stuff.
- [01:07]
Parent 2
Yeah, yeah, same baby. I hate. Do your schools do this too where they have the open house like hella after they already go back to school?
- [01:15]
Parent 1
Yeah, well Isaac just texted right now while we were in the last recording and said there's an open there's like a thing tonight at the school and it's like, I didn't know about it. I can't make it because I already have other obligations at the exact same time.
- [01:30]
Parent 2
Yeah, I me and one of these other parents there, we were just talking about how like why don't they do. Because we do them meet the teachers where we go and drop off all the supplies. I'm like, why don't they just do like the open house before? Because then you're by that time you're waiting just to go to the open house to get all the information about their back to school when they've already been back to school for like two weeks. So I'm like, we have to wait that extra time. Like why don't they just do it all together all at once? Just like, yeah. I'm like, I wish they would do that. But then I also just found out because usually Vivi has cheer practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays and then she used to have chorus like on Wednesdays, but now she's going to have it on Tuesdays. So literally from 3:45 to 5 she has chorus and then she has to be at cheer from 6 to 8.
- [02:16]
Parent 1
Like can I just ask everyone that's listening to this podcast, does anyone else find that everything is always on Tuesdays and Thursdays, like ever Monday, Wednesday, Friday? I've never currently Creed and Lincoln both have soccer practice on Tuesdays at two completely separate locations. Obviously, it's not the same league or anything like that, but it's still on Tuesdays, practice on Thursdays. And then when I found out about whatever other stuff that they want to do, it's always Tuesdays and Thursdays. Why are we not doing anything on Monday, Wednesday, Friday? Because what the.
- [02:50]
Parent 2
And I'm like, I would prefer Friday. Like, Fridays. I'm, like, even more pumped to do because I'm like, the weekend is right there, you know? Like, I don't mind going.
- [02:57]
Parent 1
The thing about Fridays is either one, people are leaving town, but two, I think the adults, like. And I don't know this for sure, this is just my opinion is that I think nobody wants to do stuff on Fridays because the parents and the coaches and the volunteers, they're more worried about going out.
- [03:13]
Parent 2
Yeah, that's true. I guess I just don't have a life, so I don't care. I'm like, I don't. I could go to practice all week. I don't care. I just. I want myself.
- [03:20]
Parent 1
After you go out after practice.
- [03:22]
Parent 2
Yeah. I'm like, I go.
- [03:25]
Parent 1
Y'all are killing me. And if anyone is in the Delaware area and you volunteer or coach, please, for the love of God, suggest a different day. Tuesdays and Thursdays don't work for everyone because we got Tom, Dick, and Harry over here that also have practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We need to utilize the remaining days of the week, please.
- [03:43]
Parent 2
So I had to. I'm like, do you want to do that? Like, do you really want to take on. You're only going to have one hour in between to eat, get homework done, change, get to get to cheer. Like, it's going to be tight. And I saw. I was, like, trying to tell her, like, do you really want to do it? She was like, yeah, I'm good. Like, I want to do it. I was just like, oh, my God, Tuesday, they're going to be.
- [03:59]
Parent 1
Oh, yeah, that doesn't bother me.
- [04:01]
Parent 2
Long last days. I just. I hate when I just feel like everything because there's so many days in a week. So I'm like, this could have been on a Wednesday, you know, like, so you do. If you want to. We're going to have two things back to back, if you're okay with that, whatever. But I was just like, this is a lot. But.
- [04:15]
Parent 1
And then I don't understand the not utilizing Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Like, you can't tell me as a poacher and volunteer, you don't recognize the same shit.
- [04:22]
Parent 2
Yeah, that is true. I didn't realize but most things that we do sign up for is usually Tuesdays or Thursdays. It's wild.
- [04:28]
Parent 1
Well, I just. It's annoying. All right, let's talk about.
- [04:36]
Parent 2
Okay said. I think I have a story of some OG baby mamas. No quote in quotations. All drama. Also, you all were talking about women slash friends coming together to raise the kids on the recent episode Here Goes Kale story on T Mom 2 always hit me the hardest. My mom was an addict. I saw her do drugs, get arrested, abuse and be abused when I was 13. In the 90s she became pregnant with my brother. She really did change her life around. However, she had this piece of shit baby daddy. I never knew what she saw in him. He was abusive and alcoholic and just a miserable person. When my baby brother was just an infant, she kicked Baby Daddy off for good. He always threatened her, saying that no judge would ever give her custody with her record. His record was clean and this was terrifying for my mom. They agreed to an unofficial arrangement where he would get the baby every other weekend and not pay child support. Baby Daddy quickly moved on to and eventually married a woman I referred to as Stepmom. She was the opposite of my mom. Timid, soft spoken, low self esteem. In other words, the perfect woman for Baby dad, someone he could easily control. My mom felt sorry for stepmom because she knew exactly what hell she was living in. However, it was comforting to my mom and I to know that stepmom was there and taking care of my brother on their weekends. Even though she did not have kids of her own, she was very motherly to him. My mom would talk to stepmom about how she deserves better and even help by running errands for her grocery store post office. When stepmom was too embarrassed to go out due to another black eye or split lip. My mom felt stuck because she knew if she called the police, stepmom would deny everything and protect Baby Dad. Then to be spiteful, he would challenge her custody agreement and possibly win. One Sunday, Baby Daddy refused to return the baby. I don't remember why. He was pissed at my mom about something trivial. I'm sure my mom panicked and called the cops. They told her that since there was no legal custody order in place, Baby Daddy had the right to keep his baby as as did she. There was nothing they could do. I remember crying, hyperventilating after hearing that. When would I see him again? Did he think we left him? Does he know we love him and want him back? I still get emotional thinking about it. After a few weeks, my mom and her devious friend. Don't we all need one of those? Devised a plan to steal her baby back. Every detail was planned out. She could take her son, but couldn't break the law by touching anyone else. Assault or breaking into their house. Breaking and entering. She would have to be invited in. Unfortunately, this would require taking advantage of stepmom. My mom waited until she knew baby daddy had left for work and went to their house while stepmom was home alone with the baby. She walked up to the door and through the window, showed a diaper bag to stepmom and cheerfully said, I brought you some things that he needs. Diapers, clothes, everything. My brother, who was about one at the time, could see my mom and went crazy. He missed her so much. This. This actually worked. And stepmom opened the door and invited her in. My mom went straight to him and picked him up and walked out the door. Stepmom begged her not to take him. My mom knew that step mom was about to have a very bad night and said something to the effect of I'm sorry, but this is my baby. You can come with me. Step mom chose to stay. Hold on. I'll never forget my mom walking into our house, baby in hand, like a warrior bitch. I was so proud of her and happy to see him. Baby daddy and the police showed up a couple hours later. I remember him standing outside with his arms. With his stupid arms crossed, all pissed, looking like a toad. After talking to everyone, the police told him the same thing we were told. Since there was no legal custody order in place, she had the right to keep him as does he. My mom went straight to the courthouse to file for custody that day. Mom still wanted to keep this out of court and maybe draw up a legal arrangement with their lawyers. One day, baby daddy called my mom and asked me to discuss a custody plan. They chose a public place in time. When my mom was about was just about to leave. Stepmom called her and said, don't go. He brought a knife. Jesus. My mom didn't go and they only spoke through their lawyers. After that. They did come to a legal and writing agreement which is basically the same one as before. Every other weekend and no child support. Stepmom stayed with baby daddy for several more years. When my brother was about 12, step mom finally left him and she, my mom and brother got an apartment together. I was an adult and out on my own by then. They easily got a restraining order against baby daddy for making all kinds of threats. As you can imagine. He didn't like this friendship. After the restraining order, he pretty much dipped out of our lives. Nobody missed him, not even my brother. The two women would raise my brother together for the next several years. It was a pretty good arrangement actually. And totally platonic. Sorry to disappoint. My brother is 31 now and is a patient, loving, sensitive, well rounded man. Nothing like his dad, only like the two ladies that raised him. Actually three. I was like another mom. More. More than a sister. I still don't know where baby daddy is and still don't care. Mom and stepmom don't live together anymore. They are each in their 60s, single and talk about buying land together and each having their own tiny house. We'll see if that happens. Thanks for reading my long story. I love that for them.
- [09:19]
Parent 1
I love this story so much. This, don't fuck with a mama bear because at the end of the day she's going to get her fucking kids. And then the second thing is that women rule this world. And at the end of the day, women that help women and women that encourage women will run the world.
- [09:39]
Parent 2
And we can figure out anything. Like look at how she did her due diligence. She was like, okay, like I know what I need to do. I cannot assault anybody. I cannot break into anybody's house. Like she did. She did what she did that she knew what the she had to do. She went, got her baby and even though it was at the expense of the stepmom, whatever. Look at where the stepmom ended up anyway. Like fuck the baby dad. They all had a. They all seem to have a good life now.
- [10:03]
Parent 1
So it all works like the stepmom saying like, don't go. He brought a knife.
- [10:07]
Parent 2
Like, yeah, like looking her out.
- [10:09]
Parent 1
She could have been.
- [10:09]
Parent 2
What could.
- [10:10]
Parent 1
Where she didn't say anything. And then the mom, the real mom got.
- [10:16]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [10:17]
Parent 1
So good for them. We love this story. They need to make a movie out of this.
- [10:21]
Parent 2
Yeah. Like what was he trying to do?
- [10:22]
Parent 1
Like kill her 100 or at least like threaten her or. Or kill her for sure. Because you hear about people killing X X lovers or bio parents all the time over custody agreements. Or they like plot to kill the other parent. I've seen that on ID channels so many times. That is so okay. So did you watch Boy Meets World as a kid?
- [10:46]
Parent 2
Yeah, I love that show.
- [10:47]
Parent 1
Well, this is sort of old news now at this point, but I, we didn't get a chance to talk about it so I wanted to bring it up. Daniel Fisher, who played Topanga on Boy Meets World, she talks about the filming of Boy Meets World, not Girl Meets World on Disney as we know it today. But I'm talking like old OG show, Fox Family or whatever it was on Boy Meets World. Right?
- [11:08]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [11:09]
Parent 1
And they had. She talked about how when they were filming that they had taken some time off and when they brought the cast back to start filming again, the. The producers or whoever it was, the directors, the behind the scenes cast, I'll call them, said that Topanga slash Danielle Fisher. Danielle Fisher had gained so much weight that they used it in the storyline.
- [11:38]
Parent 2
How did they use it in the storyline? Like that's so up.
- [11:42]
Parent 1
So in this buzzfeed article, it. She says, I was a size four. Boy Meets World. Daniel Fishel. Did I call her Danielle Fiser? I meant to say Daniel Fishel.
- [11:54]
Parent 2
Oh, because it says Fisher in the dock, that's why.
- [11:57]
Parent 1
That was probably a typo. So, yeah, she said that. She remembers thinking, oh, she says Danielle, who was size 4 at the time, recalled. I remember thinking, wow, these people think I've gained enough weight to have written an entire episode about my weight gain. And so this show actually ran from 1993 to 2000. So roughly seven, eight years.
- [12:17]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [12:17]
Parent 1
And she said that for content, the article says that for context, Ryder Strong was 14 years old and he was Sean Hunter. Will was 17 and he was Eric. And then it said that. Hold on, hold on.
- [12:39]
Parent 2
I really want to know how they use the storyline because that is fucked up. That is embarrassing, like for you to embarrass that poor girl like that. And also she was a site 4. Like, please. That just goes to show too, like where we're at, like in the 90s and like the 2000s, like being a stick figure was like what everybody wanted you to look like. Like that was like the standard for weight. So for them to even have to create a whole storyline about her being a size. Was she a size 4 before or she became a size 4.
- [13:12]
Parent 1
I think she was just. I think she was just.
- [13:15]
Parent 2
That's not even like. That is mind blowing to me. That's fucking mind blowing.
- [13:20]
Parent 1
It says I would have left the show this. No, you wouldn't have. At that time.
- [13:26]
Parent 2
You're creating a whole story about my weight gain, like, for what, you know.
- [13:30]
Parent 1
Me did to me for Team Mom. I was on it for 13 years. I never left. You can't. You at that age, when you're vulnerable, you're impressionable, you're doing whatever it takes to make it. You're not thinking about, like, yeah, it sucks, but you don't leave paychecks like that. She would. Nobody. She didn't leave. You know what I mean? Like, it sounds good in theory. And like, now as adults, we're like, oh, we would have left. No, we wouldn't have. We wouldn't have. No.
- [13:51]
Parent 2
I would hope that my parents would actually stick up for me.
- [13:54]
Parent 1
Agreed.
- [13:54]
Parent 2
Because what the. Agree.
- [13:56]
Parent 1
Agreed. I agree with that. Like, where were her parents? Because that's upsetting. Or other adults.
- [14:01]
Parent 2
That's.
- [14:02]
Parent 1
You know what? Also during that time, I don't think that people were having those types of, like, conversations about protecting. Like, it was also that we. You don't have those conversations. I feel like you just do what's expected of you. I don't think that we were having those, like, oh, I'm going to protect my daughter. Because even then, especially back then, it was like the same generation that was like, if you get abused or you get sexually assaulted, sexual, like, you get molested by a family member, you keep your mouth shut and you keep it under the rug. You don't talk about it. You don't fight against it. You don't go against the grain in any way, shape, or form. So I think that that's also, like, we. We could blame her parents, but we can also say, okay, that during that generation. And I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying that I don't think that's what they were doing back then. So this episode that she's talking about, it's called she's having my baby back ribs. And it's about Topanga being self conscious about her body. In the very first scene, she directly asks Eric, do you think I'm fat? To which he. He bluntly replies, yeah, after he had.
- [15:00]
Parent 2
Oh, my God.
- [15:01]
Parent 1
To dramatically unbutton his pants to sit down. You know, you've packed on a few pounds too, Eric. And that's what she says to him. Eric then reflects on the fact that he's 70% flab. And when Topanga tells him that he's not alone, he says, that's right. You're fat too, Eric.
- [15:18]
Parent 2
I don't remember this episode.
- [15:20]
Parent 1
Eric then refers to both of them as pigs and goes on to stuff an entire slice of pizza in his mouth.
- [15:27]
Parent 2
What the Fuck? I'm gonna YouTube this episode after this recording because I need to watch this shit. Because this is. This also goes to show that we probably watched this and probably didn't even, like, think twice about it back then. Like, Number one, I think also when I. How old were we when Boy Meets Worlds came out? Like, I think I was still very young. I don't even think I was watching it in high school yet. I'm not sure. So like those issues were not really something we were definitely. Yeah, those issues were not things that we were talking about for sure. Okay. You know that feeling when you find great gifts at even better prices? You got to go to Ross. They've got deals on everyone's favorite gifts this holiday season where you can save 20 to 60% off other retailers prices like, come on, your friend wants a sweater. You want savings? Go to Ross. You want savings on a comfy new bed for your dog Ross. You find the cutest dog beds and dog toys. They even sell the brand name toys that kids actually want and PJs for just about anyone. And all new oversized comfy lounge sets for your favorite teenager. And for the men, you can save big on dress shirts and puffer vests too. Don't forget everything you need to host for the holidays as well, like stemware, festive dishes, barware, and so much more. You can find holiday decor and festive bar wear for all your hosting. So what are you waiting for? Head on over to Ross near you and save big this holiday season. You'll be glad you did because everyone is going to ask, where'd you get that? Save on all things holiday at Ross. Yes, for less.
- [17:04]
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- [17:36]
Parent 2
What's the $5 meal deal at McDonald's? You pick a McDouble or a McChicken.
- [17:41]
Parent 1
Then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets.
- [17:45]
Parent 2
That's a lot of McDonald's for not.
- [17:47]
Parent 1
A lot of money. Price and participation may vary for a limited time only.
- [17:53]
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- [18:29]
Parent 1
I remember this episode. I also just don't. I don't think at that time, both the parents and us as viewers of it were thinking of it in the way that we think of it today. Like, we. I don't know. Like, I just don't think that it's the same way that everyone on Quite On Set is reflecting on all the things that were occurring. Ariana Grande talks about all the, like, sexual innuendos that were on the shows that she was on and didn't think of it the same way. And then in hindsight, you're like, oh.
- [19:00]
Parent 2
Yeah, well, that was what I was thinking about too. But there was. I forgot who it was. But there were parents on the. On this on set that did stick up for the child and they actually pulled them out of it because they were the ones that caught on to everything while all the other parents kind of just like, watched on and were like, you know, like, I just want my child to make it. Like, they just stood by and let things happen.
- [19:20]
Parent 1
I don't remember anyone from Quite On Set pulling their kids out.
- [19:23]
Parent 2
I remember them talk. They weren't on the show, but I remember them talking about them. And they're like, the one child, he didn't, like, really make it as far as the other people because they knew some shit was going on. And I also heard shit about. Remember that show Tyena? Like, her parents, too. Like, they said something about, like, she got out pretty early because. Yeah, I've heard rumor. I've heard things about that show. And, like, her.
- [19:45]
Parent 1
I don't know that show. I'm not. I'm not surprised, love.
- [19:47]
Parent 2
I still love Taina. That was like, representation for, like, my, like, me back in the day. Like, that was my shit. I loved that show. And people are always talking about why didn't they get another season or, like, why didn't she pop off? Because everyone loved her. She was like a. Like, kind of like that. Like, that's so Raven. Like, Raven. Like, everyone kind of, like, liked her. Like, they knew she was going to be the next best thing. But I think so.
- [20:13]
Parent 1
I can look it up.
- [20:14]
Parent 2
Taina T A I and A. Oh.
- [20:17]
Parent 1
I remember that show.
- [20:19]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [20:19]
Parent 1
Yeah. Like, everyone loves this one.
- [20:23]
Parent 2
I hear I. I don't. I just heard rumors of, like, her family just, like, what? Like, they watched out for her and they didn't really want to keep her doing the show or anything.
- [20:32]
Parent 1
Oh.
- [20:33]
Parent 2
But it was assuming it was because of some stuff that they probably witnessed behind the scenes or something. But they didn't. She wasn't, like, a part of the documentaries or anything. I've never heard her, like, speak out exactly. About anything that happened or while they. Why they pulled the show or why she didn't do the show anymore. But I was huge.
- [20:53]
Parent 1
I'm not seeing anything online right now about them pulling it because of that.
- [21:00]
Parent 2
Yeah, but people are always like. Like, that makes a lot of sense. Like, we probably really do. We probably know why that's crazy. I think there were some parents who, like, did kind of realize what was going on. And, I mean, but for others, it was just like, I guess, like you said before, it's like the paycheck and, like, wanting your kid to, like, go up the ladder in the entertainment business, too. Like, they're like, oh, we see potential. Like, they're about to become these child stars, so they're, like, enduring all this shit that really they shouldn't. And now look where. Now look where most of them are.
- [21:33]
Parent 1
Right. We're like. Now we're having open dialogue about it.
- [21:36]
Parent 2
I don't know.
- [21:37]
Parent 1
We're becoming more aware of what. What goes on behind the scenes on these sets. And I think that that's where we have to. We have to continue the conversation. We have to continue advocating for our kids. Like, there. There's a way that we can. Our kids can stay in. In the acting world or the singing world and protecting them, too. Right. Like, I think that with open dialogue and, like, secrets, not saying secrets forever is, you know, something that we have to continue doing because that way they don't take advantage of the kids, Right?
- [22:07]
Parent 2
Yeah, absolutely. But that is. That's disgusting. I don't remember that episode, so I have to watch it. And I feel so bad for her. Like, the fact that she's even in this article. Did she say. Did she say something about how she felt about that episode?
- [22:21]
Parent 1
But she said that she was upset because they did an entire episode about it.
- [22:25]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [22:26]
Parent 1
And then it says that later in the episode, Topanga is shown struggling to zip up her pants, and her husband Corey starts to speculate that she's pregnant and that her and Eric try to stick to a diet. The episode ends with Topanga opening up about how she's feeling to her friends and her husband and being assured that she's just as beautiful the way that she is. And like, that's great that that's how they tried to end the episode. But even putting a focus on the emphasis of her weight gain in and of itself is a problem, no matter how you ended the episode positively. That doesn't. It's counterproductive. It doesn't matter. Ending no longer matters because you've already made someone feel like. Yeah, multiple people feel like. And even Alessandra said that she remembers that episode. And then it made her feel like as a plus sized child, I also was a plus sized child. So I. I don't know that I remember feeling a certain way when I watched it, but I'm sure it was a subconscious thing that it was like, oh, I'm supposed to look a way that I'm not. And I don't know that I recognized it at the young age that I was. But very much looking back as an adult, I know that I felt that way. Like I felt every single day seeing my friends that were skinnier than me. I felt that. So seeing shows like that subconsciously had to have had an. An effect on me.
- [23:40]
Parent 2
Yeah. On so many people. I'm sure I was. I watched, I. I've watched Boy Meets World, but I just. I don't remember any episodes at all. Like, it was so long ago.
- [23:49]
Parent 1
I. This is like a comfort show. I think when I was pregnant with Creed during COVID I went back and watched every episode from the beginning. So Danielle says they called me into the office to tell me they were going to do this. And it wasn't really. Will had gained some weight. I had gained some weight. And obviously you guys have gained. This is what she said that the producers had said, obviously you guys have gained a little bit of weight. So we're going to write it. We're going to write an episode about it. And we want. We just wanted you to know. So here's what it's going to be. It's going to be really funny.
- [24:18]
Parent 2
That's where they try to flip it. They try to be like, oh, like, you don't have to worry about it. Like, we're going to make it funny. And it's like, no, that doesn't make it any fucking better because now you're laughing about my weight gain. Like you're making people who actively watch the show want to sit back and take it as a joke.
- [24:32]
Parent 1
Well, she said the hardest part for me was that meeting, because Will was on board. He was totally up for It. And immediately. Just immediately. Which I know he was very insecure and it was really painful and hurtful for him.
- [24:45]
Parent 2
Oh, my God.
- [24:46]
Parent 1
So he pretended that.
- [24:47]
Parent 2
He was pretending like he was okay. Yeah. Which I think that probably happened. I mean, I'm sure so many of them. We've witnessed them just say okay to things that they were not okay with. Mm.
- [24:59]
Parent 1
Yeah.
- [24:59]
Parent 2
That is sad. That's so fucked up. And then you also have on here that there was a huge pay gap also between her and the male co stars, which.
- [25:05]
Parent 1
Yeah, she talks about a pay gap between them too. So they're both getting something written in the episode about their weight gain and not. Are you already putting. Exploiting that.
- [25:16]
Parent 2
Being exploited.
- [25:19]
Parent 1
They're them by paying someone. The male counterparts, significantly more than Topanga. And they're being. That doesn't make sense to me. And it rubs me the wrong way because I always loved women's world. But it's so. It's crazy that one episode. Knowing this about that makes me look at the entire show differently because it's like, who wrote that? And were there any women that were involved in this process? Because surely if there was women producers even at that time.
- [25:46]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [25:47]
Parent 1
Were they involved in this sort of exploitation?
- [25:50]
Parent 2
Yeah. Were they saying as well. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, because that's about. I don't know. I'm pretty sure they're. But that's the thing. Like, back then, I think a lot of them couldn't even speak up because even if they were in the room, a lot of the higher ups were male and they would probably. No matter what the women had said, they probably would have went and fucking did it anyway.
- [26:10]
Parent 1
Yeah, that's true.
- [26:11]
Parent 2
Like that. You know, and that's another thing too. That's why it is important. Yes. To have women in those rooms that. To be able. But to actively be able to speak up in those rooms. You can have a seat at the fucking table, but that doesn't mean that you're actively speaking up and still like talking about these things and telling people, hey, no, that's not right. Like, no. No one should be talking about anybody's weight gaining, making in a storyline, especially as women. You know, like, there's. Yeah. For anybody. So I'm just like. I think even if there were women who were there, they probably just probably didn't even speak up either. Or if they did, they were taken seriously.
- [26:44]
Parent 1
I feel like for women, we are. I think overall, like, as a generalization, women are more vocal about, you know, you don't talk about a woman's weight. Right. But like, men in that aspect, they suffer silently. They're not going to actively make these vocal. Vocalizations about their weight and. And being insecure about their weight.
- [27:07]
Parent 2
Right.
- [27:07]
Parent 1
Like, that's all like silent suffering, which is exactly what Danielle was describing of Will, which is. Which is really sad.
- [27:14]
Parent 2
Yeah, no, definitely. I don't think till this day, like, I don't. I hear women talk more about their weight and like, oh, I have to go on a diet or I have to go to the gym. Like, there's barely. I can't even think of men that I know right now that are actively like, oh, I have to watch my health or I have to watch my weight. Like, I need to get in the gym barely ever.
- [27:32]
Parent 1
Which is interesting because two of my kids have both expressed concern over their weights recently. And it makes me really sad because they both privately told me they're different concerns and they're very, very different. And then most recently, I had one of my kids at the doctor's office, and mind you, this provider was significantly overweight. Like, I'm not talking a little bit of overweight. I'm talking about a lot of bit overweight.
- [28:01]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [28:02]
Parent 1
That in front of my child that he. He needed to. He was overweight and needed to lose some weight. And I'm thinking to myself, that's really rich coming from you. But also, that was a conversation that you could have said to me privately and I could relay that to my child. I also think that certain ages with hormones and, And. And things like that, at different ages of your life, you, like puberty, for example, you either gain or lose weight and. Yeah. Just like in different parts of adolescence. And so I just felt like that was so inconsiderate. And so read the room. Because now I have two kids, boys, obviously, that are concerned about their weights for different reasons, and it wasn't because of me.
- [28:55]
Parent 2
That's terrible. I'm sorry that that happened. But I understand the frustration because I would literally been like, even. And it's the delivery, too. You know, like, sometimes doctors can be very, like, I get, like, you want to be to the point and stuff. But these are also children. You have to think about the way they receive information and their mental health. Like, obviously, if he was already struggling or feeling like this was a concern, don't you want to give it to them in a way where it's like, not going to scare them and, like, actually comfort them or be like, hey, you know, like, like you as a mom, I'M sure you would have found a better way to relay the information.
- [29:28]
Parent 1
Right.
- [29:28]
Parent 2
And I think as to what he probably told him, you know, it's one.
- [29:32]
Parent 1
Of those things that say something to me. And if I, as the parent, express concern and say, hey, my child's not going to listen if it's coming from me, maybe you need to say that to my child directly or in the same room as my child. I feel like that should have been a conversation between myself and the provider, because you don't know what type of impact I heard Alessandra say on another one of Byban's episodes. Something along the lines of, like, it was. It was about bullying and people carrying one sentence with them for their entire lives. I wholeheartedly believe that. And I do think that that one sentence will carry. Will stay with my child for a really long time. And I just don't think that that was for the provider to say directly to my child.
- [30:17]
Parent 2
I agree. I agree. And I think, yeah, that's so fucking frustrating.
- [30:23]
Parent 1
So I can't even imagine, like, a.
- [30:26]
Parent 2
Room full of a whole TV show being fucking directed about it. Imagine.
- [30:31]
Parent 1
Could you imagine?
- [30:33]
Parent 2
That's heartbreaking. And I'm sure she's still traumatized about that shit. Like, it still errors. People still see that. People, like you said, Boy Meets World is like a comfort show. So people probably watch it still till this day and are like, what the fuck was that?
- [30:45]
Parent 1
Like, obviously held. Wait for her if she's still talking about it today.
- [30:48]
Parent 2
Exactly. That's what I mean.
- [30:49]
Parent 1
We're talking. If this show was from 1923 to 2000 and we're in 2024, that's at least 24 of drama. As you wanted to make a episode about this. You know what I mean? So it's like, be careful what you say, because that sticks in stones. We break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Bullshit is not actual.
- [31:10]
Parent 2
I am a firm believer that words do cut just as deep as, like, anyone's actions. And sometimes I feel like they hurt more. Sometimes, like, I feel like people can do to me, like, physically or, like, I feel like words really stick with me more honestly. And that's how. That's how I've been my whole life. I've been like that my whole life. So that's why I've never been. I've never. I don't think I've ever even told BB Once in my life, like, oh, say, you know, sticks and stones and break your bones, but words can never hurt you. Like, don't work Like, I don't say things like that because I understand. And there's something that she has told me before and she's like, you know, like, people have said this to me or someone has said this and I'm like, like, how did you feel about that? She's like, that hurt my feelings. Like I heard it hurt my feelings. And I'm like, that's valid. Like, I understand that would hurt. I literally said that would fucking hurt my feelings too, you know, like, oh.
- [31:58]
Parent 1
Don'T worry about it. Oh, don't listen to them. Oh, it's.
- [32:00]
Parent 2
Yeah. And it's like easier said than done, right? Because I do want to be someone that instills in my daughter. Like, I don't want any of your, like what you believe yourself to be and like your self esteem and like everything. I don't want you to. I don't want that to fall on other people. I don't want that to be like a validation. Like you need to other people's validation. But I'm also, I have to be understanding of the fact that yeah, I understand that these things hurt. But you have to understand that it's not, it's not coming from a place where they're doing it. They're doing it because it's like something that they're going through. So I try and put emphasis on that too. Like most people who hurt people through words are hurt people, you know, like, you don't know what they're going through. So it's like I try and have grace and I also have to understand that these are children, you know, Like, I'm like, we don't know the type of background they're coming from. We don't know her, their household. We don't know the shit that gets said to them. So I try and tell her that, but then I also had let her know. Like when someone speaks to you that way, you let it be known that they don't have the right to speak to you that way. Like, I don't care how old you are. Like, I'm like, you tell someone, like, listen, don't, don't talk to me that way. That's it. And I tell her that all the time. I'm like, it's simple to say that to somebody and just walk away. And you don't have to be their friend or you don't have to talk to them if they make you feel some type of way. And it's constant. Don't feel like you need to be her friend because she's Also at that age where she feels like she has to be friends with everybody or like, you know how little kids are. Like, they'll be like, oh, I'm your friend one day, I'm not your friend the next. Like. And I'm like, no. I'm like, that don't have to be a thing. If you really don't like this person or what they say to you on a daily basis or how they make you feel, that's not your friend. That's not your friend. Like, it's not all because they're children. No, I don't believe that shit. That's their. That's who they are right now. If they change, fine. But right now you don't. They don't have a place in your life for a friendship. That's just. What's the $5 meal deal at McDonald's? You pick a McDouble, or a McChicken.
- [34:03]
Parent 1
Then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets.
- [34:07]
Parent 2
That's a lot of McDonald's for not.
- [34:09]
Parent 1
A lot of money.
- [34:10]
Parent 2
Price of participation may vary.
- [34:11]
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- [34:46]
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- [35:24]
Parent 1
The comprehension level at their age. Like it's so hard. When we were growing up, people used to say, oh, you know they're hurt. They're trying to hurt you because they're hurt, right? Or like explaining it to us that way. And we didn't understand at their age. Like I don't even Isaac fully understands that at 14. So it took me until I was in my late 20s, early 30s to understand that it's projection. And I. I don't necessarily think that young children have the ability to understand that. So it's like, how do we teach our.
- [35:57]
Parent 2
Dumb it down? Like, I literally try and give her. I've straight up told her, like, I know there are children in your class that come from families that probably don't have the most. They don't get their full attention, you know, like, they probably don't have a lot of the things that you have. Like, I know that because I've also. I've. I've been around friends that have come from families like that. So I also want her to understand that too. I don't want her to go around thinking just because you have something like everyone else lives that same life, like, that is not true. People are not living this life that you're living sometimes. And I just want her to understand that as well. Because I know that I have been hurt by people who are great people, but I think in the moment, like, they were going through something, through a lot of things, like with their parents or something like that, you know? So I think that just comes from my experience as well. Like, especially being younger. I don't know if it's also just because where I come from, like, I have to keep in mind, like, I'm in a totally different setting than Bibi is growing up in too. But I do. I think I just try and help. I'm trying to humble a child that doesn't come from the same place you come from is, like, really hard because it's like, they're never going to exactly see it the way you saw it or what, how you went through it, you know?
- [37:13]
Parent 1
Right.
- [37:13]
Parent 2
Like, I do try and explain to her, like, certain situations, like, you don't know, like, it's not. They could tell you one day, like, you're ugly, I don't like you, and then the next day, like, try and be your best friend. Like, I try and tell her not to take things with a grain of salt, but it is. It's hard. Like, I can't explain to her fully why someone is using words to hurt her when she doesn't understand it. Like, it has nothing to do with you, you know, they're just doing it. Then she's like, then why are they doing it to me? You know? And I'm just like, well, that's.
- [37:42]
Parent 1
Adults don't even understand it. Adults, yeah.
- [37:44]
Parent 2
We don't even get it hurtful towards.
- [37:46]
Parent 1
Other adults, like, especially Internet trolls. Right. Like, I understand now that everyone has them, not just me. Like, for a long time I thought it was just me because they hate me. No, the Internet trolls, the same ones who say I have a bachelor's degree and a husband and, and children and I'm so happy. No, the. You're not. So you clearly don't understand that these in like you yourself are doing this because of projection. Because. Yeah, you are deeply unhappy and you don't even realize. So trying to explain it to children is really hard. And they didn't tell us that when we became parents.
- [38:18]
Parent 2
Yeah. And I also, I told her one time, which I think kind of stuck with her in a way because I was like, you remember there was one time where she was really, she was having the best day and she gave me like an attitude and you know, she said something that I was like, whoa, no, like, there's no fucking way you're talking to me like that. Number one, you know, and number two. Yeah, like, that's hurtful, you know, like, I don't want you saying any of those things to anybody. Like, that hurt my feelings. So that's not usually how you communicate with me.
- [38:43]
Parent 1
Right.
- [38:43]
Parent 2
And then I use that moment to tell her. Like, you see, like when you're doing stuff like that, you didn't, you didn't mean to hurt me. Like, I know you didn't want to do it to hurt me. That was just how you were feeling in the moment and came out in an unhealthy way, you know, like, that's what happened. But I know you're not really trying to like, hurt my feelings, you know, like it's projection. Like, you projected how you were feeling and you were bottling up some type of emotion and it came out on someone who didn't deserve it, you know, and sometimes that's just how it is. Like, that's how it is. So I try to use that moment as like, sometimes that shit happens. But you have to work on yourself and how to regulate your emotions. I can't do that for you. Like, I can help you as far as I can, but treating me a certain type of way because you feel some type of way is not acceptable. Like, that's not going to happen in this house.
- [39:28]
Parent 1
But that's another. That's a whole other conversation. Regulating emotions. You have to be. Children have to be taught to do that. That's not something when people are like, oh, cry it out. They need to self regulate and then come back to me. No, adults can't self regulate. So why are we expecting children to self regulate? We have to teach our children to do that. And in order to teach your children to do that, you need to know how to do that. And so that's also frustrating too, because, I mean, I know at Creed and the school that all my kids have gone to, they. They teach, like, taking a deep breath when you're upset and like.
- [39:58]
Parent 2
Yeah, she knows all those things.
- [40:00]
Parent 1
Those, like, things that they teach us in therapy as adults to self regulate, get your frontal lobe re engaged, and things like that. Those are all forms of self regulation, and we have to teach our kids to do that. We can't expect our kids to cry it out, throw a tantrum, and then come back to us when they're figuring it out. They don't. That has to be taught.
- [40:18]
Parent 2
Yeah. And Bibi knows, like, she. Whenever she's feeling anxious, because she does already suffer from anxiety at a very young age. I've taught her how to count it out in her head, how to take deep breaths. Like, we've worked on this for so long. Because I know she's gonna have anxiety. Like, I know being where I come from, my background. Joe, like, we all. We all suffer for anxiety. So I'm like, I know you're gonna go through these things because you also just see it in me. As much as I try to, like, regulate my feelings and not show, like, I am a certain type of way, I know you understand how I work already. So these are the things that I do. So I need you to understand that these are the things that you need.
- [40:52]
Parent 1
To do and just, like, just doing it, I think. Yeah, you not just talking about it, but, like, modeling it. Because that's the other thing is, like, they're gonna.
- [41:00]
Parent 2
Yeah, they have to see it. They're not. You can tell kids to their blue in the face what to do, but they have to see it from you.
- [41:07]
Parent 1
Agreed. I agree with that. Yeah.
- [41:10]
Parent 2
Do you remember when we talked about cell phone conversation? Like, you were like, what are, like, the exact boundaries for, like, a child to have, like, a cell phone and things like that? And we were like, there's no nothing that we see that, like, tells how to, like, protect kids from, like, you know, having their cell phones and, like, what they should be doing at what age. I actually found an article that I thought was, like, really, really helpful that I wanted to share with you because I feel like you would actually love this too. And it was basically so from the American Academy of Pediatrics center of Excellence on Social Media and Youth Mental Health that's a tongue twister. But they recommend considering something called the five Cs to assess the risks versus benefits of screen time for your child, your particular kid. I'm going to go through the five Cs but then they also have an age like age by age. They did like what they recommend as far as screen time for kids. Okay, so the first one, the first C is child. So it says who is your child and how do they react to the media? The second one is content. What is worth their attention? And then the third one is calm. Are they able to regulate their emotions, which we just talked about, or fall asleep without a screen? So I think that's really important. And then crowding out. What does time spent consuming media replace? So is this, you know, what is this replacing? And then communication. Is your child able to comprehend the risks and benefits of media and follow directions responsibly? So those are like the five Cs that they recommend you actually thinking about before you give your child a screen, whether it be like an iPad or a phone. And then I'm going to go through the actual ages because this is really interesting to me. So it says for babies from 0 to 18 months, it says basically you have to prioritize interactive hands on activities, which I think that's basically we, you know, that's the one thing we actually try to do. So their phone time should be highly limited as far as basically maybe just doing like a video chat here and there with grandma. So that's like something that I looked at back when Bibi was young and I was like that's basically like what we did. Like I wasn't giving her my phone at like 18 months or like 12 months. Like most of the time like we were doing most activities like puzzles and things like that. But she maybe would get my phone to like screen like facetime my mom or whatever. So I think that's pretty, I think I agree with that. And then so toddlers from 18 to 24 months, this is where they agree that it's smart to like limit the screen time to avoid, you know, like high quality age appropriate content and avoid using the phone as a babysitter, which I think people sometimes, sometimes do. So between the ages of 18 months and 2 years, they say it's cool to use a cell phone to introduce a quote unquote limited amount of educational programming while a cake, a caregiver is actually present so that they can, so that you can engage with and reinforce lessons but don't actual, don't actually replace Regular playtime, like, keep it. It should be kept at a minimum. So I think this is basically like, okay, they can have something. That's where it's educational, but you're still there with them.
- [44:20]
Parent 1
Here's the thing. I'm going to stop you right there. I'm going to get a lot of hate for this comment that I'm about to make. Okay, this is not apply. I'm not applying this statement to kids with special needs or anything like that.
- [44:34]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [44:35]
Parent 1
I'm gonna say, and this is my opinion and my opinion, only the parents that are giving their kids unlimited access to phones and iPads and tablets are lazy. They are going to use it as a babysitter.
- [44:54]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [44:54]
Parent 1
That is my statement and that's how I feel. My 24 month old has no idea what an iPad is.
- [45:00]
Parent 2
No, mine didn't.
- [45:01]
Parent 1
They didn't. Screenshot, iPad. The time that Rio gets is on Elijah's phone to FaceTime, his mother and his grandmother, and then maybe a TV show. And that's it. Yeah, there's no. You're not getting my phone. You're not getting an iPad. I made my mistake. I learned the hard way. The meltdowns, the babysitting, the reliance, all of that. I don't care. So in the past, I've used iPads on like airplanes, when we go on trips. And that's it. Yeah, practice. Yesterday, Creed had soccer practice. Well, the coach at Creed soccer practice allows Lux to practice with Creed's team and like, be like an assistant, like, to like help the younger kids. And guess what? I brought toys for Rio.
- [45:45]
Parent 2
Yeah, that's what I used to. Bibi never had an iPad, like, ever. Like, I did toys. Like, I did. And even when she did, she didn't get one till she was like, don't get. They got both of them iPads when they were like, I don't even. I don't even know how old. But it was very limited. Like, she had like one hour of screen time a day. Like, that was it. Like, I just never really. I never knew. I didn't think that it was like, important for her to have an iPad because I was also able to just be hands on with her throughout the day. Like, I luckily was able to be home with her and stuff like that. And that was most of my time. Like, I was with her. But even when we go out, I don't. I still, to this day, you're not bringing your iPad with you. Anywhere we go out, like, there's people around us. You can communicate. Like, we Talk. We sit and talk at the table. Like, you don't. She never. That iPad never leaves my house. The only time that has ever left my house was like on, like you said, like on an airplane. If it's going to be a long flight, obviously I'm not going to stay there and like entertain you for five hours straight. That's it. But like, and then if we're going to my mom's house and maybe her and Allie want to play together, she'll be like, oh, can she bring her iPad? Okay, maybe. But she, you still have, she still has very limited time, like on her iPad.
- [46:48]
Parent 1
I just feel like the people that are going to get mad at me for saying that are the ones that need to dig deep and really they're not ready for these conversations. If you're getting mad that I said that, then you are part of the problem. I just, the thing is that what the fuck are we doing not replacing Playtime? Well, they're, these are the same people. I don't like getting down on the floor and playing with my kids. I'll do it. I don't love it. But I also, when we take, when I take my 2 year old to practice, you're going to go kick a soccer ball too. And I understand two years old, there's no reason why I should be putting something in front of my 2 year old's face that is keeping their attention for an entire hour. That's not normal. That is not normal. So you're going to kick a ball for five to 10 minutes and then we're going to sit down and we're play with toys. So we're going to bring your little action figures. We're going to, we're going to.
- [47:34]
Parent 2
I think that helps, like them want to go outside. Like BB still says, like yesterday she was outside on the trampoline just bouncing around for like two hours. You know, like that helps them want to like do other things. I don't want her just like on an iPad all fucking day. Like, even if I'll admit, like she's at a bigger age now where she watches like shows like she likes icarly and things like that. So if she wants to watch a show and maybe she's, you know, Isaac's not at the house or whatever and she's maybe bored. Like, can I watch my show? I'll let her watch like a few episodes of her show. But other than that, like she's not, she's not so connected to the iPad where she has to have it all the time. Yeah. And she could go forever without that thing. We could take it from her. She wouldn't even fucking care. She finds other things to do and things. Because that I've. That's just the one thing. I've never wanted that to be something that she actively looks for and, like, needs or like, has a breakdown over it. And there's kids her age that need it. Like, they will actively, like, break down if they don't have their iPads. And I'm like, I just never wanted her to be that person at any age. Like, I just don't want her to have to rely on, you know, like, you're not. I don't want you living your life on a screen. You're young, number one. You're a child. Go outside and play. Go touch some grass. Like, go. I think kids need to just learn how to entertain themselves. Like, be bored. Like, there's times where she tells me, oh, I'm bored. And I'm like, you have a million things to do. You have talk. You have a trampoline outside. You have a bike, you have scooters. You have all these things that I value all the time, like bubbles. You have so many things to keep you entertained. You want me to go outside with you? I've outside with you. Like, let's hang out. No. Like, you're not going to stay on your iPad all fucking day.
- [49:08]
Parent 1
I think that if I struck a nerve for anyone listening to this podcast, I'm not sorry. And I honestly think that you need to do some self reflecting. Because once you read that part of the article that said, don't replace regular playtime, it's the same people whose kids don't know how to play by themselves, let alone, you know, take.
- [49:28]
Parent 2
Because some people play with others, some.
- [49:30]
Parent 1
Parents don't want to do the playing at all. I'll do it like I did it yesterday for Rio at soccer practice. You know, I'm gonna do it. But at the end of the day, it's the people that don't want to do it at all. Or they, they. The problem is that you're perpetuating the cycle of not being able to remove the screen.
- [49:44]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [49:44]
Parent 1
Because we're not teaching them how to do independent play. And I. Just for me, I, I. Lesson learned. And I don't. I have not introduced Rio to any type of screen outside of the tv.
- [50:03]
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- [50:34]
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- [50:51]
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- [52:08]
Parent 2
Yeah, that becomes the hardest part is like, you start to realize, oh, they're so, like, they are so emotionally attached to this iPad. And then you have a problem. So then it's like, yeah, they're there. That needs to be regulated like they should.
- [52:21]
Parent 1
And the same thing for video games. Like the kids that have these like extreme addictions or like they're constantly on a. Like on a. Lincoln has FIFA.
- [52:31]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [52:31]
Parent 1
And I think he might have like an NBA thing. But I mean, Javi and I are very much aligned in like, don't even ask me for your cell phone unless you're leaving the house, because you don't even need a cell phone while you're in the home. So you have one you're not in. No, like, it's the answers. I got emailed Hobby and I was like, hey, when you give, when Lincoln has a chance, like have him call me or FaceTime me and that's it. Like, I know I can't just text Lincoln. And Lincoln's about to be 11.
- [52:57]
Parent 2
Yeah, okay, so that was 18 to 24 months old. And then so this is little, this is little kids 2 to 5 years old. It says while screens should go off during family meal time and outings, according to the aacap, kids over two can amp up total screen time a bit after their second birthday. Up to an hour a day is considered acceptable as long as you recover your phone from them 30 to 60 minutes before bedtime so they can wind down on their own. But don't let them go rogue. Basically, like, like, don't just give them unlimited screen time just because they can. So I thought that was interesting too. And as it says, as kiddos become more comfortable using smartphones, parents often underestimate how much supervision is needed. And I think that is very important because I think that's very true.
- [53:43]
Parent 1
But the same parents that are giving screen time, most of them are not going to monitor because they're using it as a babysitting device. They don't, they're not ready for these conversations. And that's the hardest part, is like we can read this until they're blue in the face with these parents. They don't want to acknowledge where they're going wrong here. They're not going to acknowledge this. They're not monitoring the stuff, they're not looking after, they're not cutting it off at a certain time. And that's part of the problem.
- [54:08]
Parent 2
Yep, that is the problem. And then. So this one, 5 to 10 years old. Hold on, I'm trying to find. Focus on setting strict time limits, which should depend on what else your kids got going on. So once they tick the boxes on sleep, play, reading, learning, homework and extracurriculars, digital media can fill in that leftover time. Just continue to closely monitor content so they are only using apps and games that are age appropriate, no social media. And then preteens 10 to 14 year old, once they've got their own phone number, establish clear rules from the start, like no phones during family dinners, which could interfere with face to face interactions. And no phones in the bedroom at night, which could take a toll on sleep. Establish consequences for breaking rules, like temporary limits on when and where your kid can use their phone. But reassure them that they can tell you about anything they encounter online and you'll work through it together rather than taking their phone away as Punishment. This builds trust and encourages open communication.
- [55:06]
Parent 1
Okay, but this goes back to the same conversation that I had months ago is that if you don't have open conversation and open dialogue on a regular basis about regular everyday life things, what? Why would a child come talk to you about anything regarding the phone or what's on the phone? And tech, Like, I know for a fact if I didn't have a very close relationship with Isaac, he's not going to feel comfortable talking to me about anything related to his phone or what's on his phone. So like that sounds good in theory, but you have to have that on a regular basis in everyday life anyway. And to begin with, yeah.
- [55:41]
Parent 2
And then the last one is just 15 to 17 years old.
- [55:47]
Parent 1
Oh, what does it say for that? Since Isaac falls into that category, let.
- [55:51]
Parent 2
Your team, Let your team participate in setting their own phone boundaries while you continue to monitor the content they consume and produce. Specifically on social media that convo about potential risks of screen addiction, cyberbullying and exposure to harmful content. Make sure it's a CONSTANT, Not a one time thing. @ this age, what they do on their phones matters more than how long they're on them. Facetiming a friend or family member is much different than watching hours of videos or mindlessly scrolling through social media. Confidence over screen time can sometimes do more harm than the screen time itself. So emphasize the quality of their screen use. The key is to keep lines of communication open. They might be on their phones more than usual when dealing with friend drama or digesting stressful situations. So talk to them and help address the root cause.
- [56:35]
Parent 1
Agreed.
- [56:36]
Parent 2
And if you notice your kid is always on their phone, take a look at your own habits. If you're always on your phone, they're likely to do the same. It's also great to be open and honest with them when you make a mistake or aren't happy with your own phone habits, which lets them see that learning healthy phone habits is a process. I agree with that.
- [56:52]
Parent 1
I mean, it is. And that's part of the reason why as an adult at only what, like in my 30s so far that I have replaced most of my scrolling with books. Because not only did I want to make that healthy change for myself and for my mental health, but also I want my kids to see that. Like, I want my kids to remember, what was mom doing reading? I don't want mom. I don't want my kids to be like, oh, mom was always on her phone.
- [57:15]
Parent 2
You know, that was my goal for the beginning of this year too. I Was like, I'm tired of, like, just watching bullshit television or, like, just being on my phone all the time. Like, I don't want my. I don't want them to look at me and be like, that's what. Where's Mom? Like, she's just on her phone. Like, I don't want that. And that was something that I really thought about earlier in the year, so replacing and just trying. I also have, like, a thing on my notes where I was like, what can I do specifically with the kids that doesn't require, like, us on our phones or, like, anything that has to do with social media? And I wrote down, like, a bunch of stuff. So now we paint. Like, we have. I get, like, tote bags, and we'll, like, make tote bag. Like, we did bracelets. And, like, you know, like, I try to do different things where we can do it together and connect. And, like, I don't want. I don't even. I find myself not even reaching for my phone as much anymore. Like, I just want to be in tune with, like, doing things.
- [58:07]
Parent 1
100% agree. I feel bad for Elijah because if I don't have the kids or the kids are all in bed, I don't want to watch a show. I want to read a book. So I'm like, you can put the show on. I'll be here in the. Reading, reading the book. Tell me about it after. But I just. It's so weird how things change. And I don't know if it was. Like. The only thing I do wish was that it happened sooner. Like, I wish it didn't take me to my 30s to get here, but, I mean, I remember growing up, my grandma was always reading. Like, when I was with. I spent a lot. A lot, a lot of time with my grandparents. And my mom was always reading. Like, not my mom. My grandma was always reading. And I. I love that about her, and I wish that she was alive today so that we could talk about the books. You know what I mean?
- [58:48]
Parent 2
Yeah. My grandpa did puzzles, and every time I would go to his house, he had a different puzzle thing that he would work on, and I would just sit down and, like, work on it with him. And it's. It's good for, like, focus, I think, for someone with, like, adhd, that could probably really help someone, like, just learn, like, how to focus on a task. And I literally told Joe not too long ago, I was like, I feel like I'm at that phase where I don't blame our grandparents for, like, picking up a goddamn Puzzle and just doing a puzzle and it's like. Or just staying in the porch and drinking a cup of coffee. Like, it's the little things in life at this point that I'm like, this is what I want to do. Like, I just want to do a puzzle. I'm in my puzzle era.
- [59:26]
Parent 1
Oh, no.
- [59:27]
Parent 2
And Legos, too. I've been really loving Legos. I told the kids for my birthday, I wanted one of the rose set Legos that they have. Like, they have a whole bunch of different ones. They have, like, a Polaroid one. They have a guitar. Like, making the Legos is so fun. Like, I'm obsessed with this. So that's become, like, my newest thing. Like, I just want to do all the LEGO sets. And.
- [59:44]
Parent 1
Yeah, we gotta do something other than scroll. Like, it's good to, like, and it's a business. And, like, I get that whole thing. And, like, Isaac is now in his influencer era, where he's, like, doing. He has. He's doing social media with a purpose.
- [59:57]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [59:58]
Parent 1
But to aimlessly scroll is, like, not, like, that's not it. Like, okay, give yourself a few minutes, and then after the few minutes, even if you're not like a book reader, go listen to a book. Or, like he said, Legos are a good option. My great grandmother, my Nana, did puzzles all the time. She always held them on her dining room table. And so I also. Yeah. Oh, my.
- [60:17]
Parent 2
My mom has booked. She brings a book every. Every day with her. Like, if she comes over here, she's got her crossword puzzles or, like, the brain. Like, something to, like, you know, just. Just to stimulate your brain. Like, I'm like, this is stuff that we need to be doing.
- [60:32]
Parent 1
That's what I'm gonna do, especially for Lincoln and Isaac. I'm gonna have them do word searches.
- [60:37]
Parent 2
Because I feel good. I love them. Me, My mom will sit down and just do word searches, and it's just so fun. You sit there and like, oh, did you get this one? Did you get, like. Like, it's fun, and it's like you're stimulating your brain as well. Like, you're working. You're working your muscles. I guess I don't know what it is, but it's different. Like, it's.
- [60:52]
Parent 1
I'm getting these for the car because that's like, yes. Going to. And from. Like, we're in the car so much from, like, this soccer practice and that soccer practice and everything else. But Lincoln is. We've. He. We've had the most trouble, I say, with Isaac and Lincoln, as far as, like, when we were not being the greatest monitors on phones.
- [61:11]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [61:12]
Parent 1
Which is where this all kind of stemmed from. And so I think this good for them, too. And then also, it sets a good example for, like, younger siblings. Lux is. He has been asking me all week, can I get a phone now? Can I get a phone now? Can I get a phone now? And absolutely no, you cannot get a phone. You're seven years old. You're not getting a phone. You're not mature enough to be responsible for a phone.
- [61:32]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [61:32]
Parent 1
And obviously this doesn't apply to people who are, you know, you have to have a phone at that age because maybe they're staying home alone. Like, this doesn't apply to you. But we're not doing that. I already. I already did that and had to undo it with Isaac and Lincoln. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes, and I'm just not doing it. So I'm going to do these word searches, and then we'll keep them in the car.
- [61:52]
Parent 2
They have, like, car, like, car games that you can buy. Like, like, I Spy, whatever. And you have to, like, I buy stuff like that so that BB can keep entertained. Like, if I'm in the car with them or whatever. Like, I just. We don't. I'm not taking the iPad in my car. Like, that doesn't come in my car.
- [62:08]
Parent 1
Like, oh, we don't even have them anymore. We don't have iPads anymore. So blame you.
- [62:12]
Parent 2
That's not. Yeah. So I'm just like, no, girly. Like, find something. And she's. Luckily, she's always been pretty good in the car. Like, even on our rides, our long car rides to Jersey, she'll just take a nap. Like, she just, like, she. I'm going to bed. Or, like, I'm going to sleep. Or she'll ask me to play music. Like, that's where we connect on, like, music. And I'll show her, like, new music or, like, old 2000s music. Like, stuff like that. Like, I just try. And it's just about, like, you know, trying to connect with her in, like, a different. A different way. So we do music a lot, too.
- [62:42]
Parent 1
Me ordering word searches right now. I'm gonna get, like, a little. I'm gonna get word searches, and then I'm also gonna get, like, a case for the car to put, like, the pens and the highlighters in, because that'll also be helpful because we're just. We're in the car. Lincoln's soccer practice is an hour from our house. So, yeah. And it's twice a week, so I mean, we're just. And I. I take the other kids so that they can get out of the house and they can go play outside. I'm not gonna keep them at home. So I think, yeah, just having stuff like that will be good. Yesterday I was teaching Lux how to do, like, those mazes on, like, the back of menus. They have them at, like. And I mean, he did pretty good. So just, like, stupid. Like, just little stuff like that.
- [63:29]
Parent 2
Little. They call them, like, brain games, don't they?
- [63:32]
Parent 1
I'm trying to find one.
- [63:34]
Parent 2
They have a bunch of different ones that have varieties. Like, it's not just crossword, but they have different things that you can do.
- [63:39]
Parent 1
Oh, okay.
- [63:40]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [63:41]
Parent 1
Adult coloring books.
- [63:43]
Parent 2
Oh, I love adult coloring books. Stop. We had gel pens. Like, she has so many gel pens. And I just use them all the time with my color books.
- [63:51]
Parent 1
Well, we. I think they have those markers that are, like, blending markers. They, like, don't look weird when you, like, color in them, though. I saw them all over Tick Tock, so. Oh, my God.
- [64:00]
Parent 2
That's always been me and BB's thing. Like, we love to color. We can literally sit down and just color for hours. Like, I love coloring. That's the one thing I never mind doing with her. Like, I'm kind of the same as you. I don't want to play Barbies or nothing, but I'm like, you want to sit down and color. We can color, like, we can get down.
- [64:13]
Parent 1
Like, I been did the. The Barbies thing on that now.
- [64:18]
Parent 2
No, no, I'm.
- [64:20]
Parent 1
I'm actually ready for the Barbie thing. I played with Barbies until I was 12 years old. So I will be ready for Barbies when Valleys. I like, gonna be a Barbie girl. I don't care what people like. Like, sit down and play with your Barbies. Because I used to myself for hours with Barbies. Like, you couldn't tell me about 12 years old. And everyone else was doing other things. I was still playing with Barbies.
- [64:43]
Parent 2
So that's how Vivian Alia, they still play with Barbies and they're at this stage now where they're, like, making up dances and stuff together. It's like, I love it. Like, I want to keep them innocent for so long. I'm like, just do that. Like, please, like, don't get on the Tick Tocks. But Ali does show her some of, like, the Tick Tock dances and stuff, but it's nothing crazy. Like, it's never anything inappropriate. So I'm like, that's cute. Like, whatever. Yeah, they are. They're at that phase now and I'm just like, I love it. Like they all just be doing dances, dance moves and like that. But I'm past the Barbie stage and I'm honestly, I'm happy about it. I'm. I'm over like the Barbie stage. I'm like, I don't want. Don't ask me to play Barbies for two.
- [65:20]
Parent 1
Like, I'm done.
- [65:21]
Parent 2
I will color with you.
- [65:23]
Parent 1
I'm. I'm not having the Barbie thing. No, I.
- [65:25]
Parent 2
You can make up a dance. Like I tell her, let's practice cheer. Like, she. She always is like, mom, can we go practice my cheer stuff? And she'll use me for like whatever the whatever she tells me what to do. So I'm just like, let's just do that.
- [65:35]
Parent 1
Like I'm looking up all the things for the car so that my kids can take all their.
- [65:40]
Parent 2
Yeah, you'll find. You'll find a lot of stuff. They have a lot of fun car games. I remember I got some stuff from Target. They had a whole like at the dollar section and stuff. They had like cute little car games that you can play. But you can get all that stuff on Amazon.
- [65:55]
Parent 1
Yeah, I'm getting the retractable markers, like the ones that click. Because anything with lids I don't like, we're not drying up markers. You know what I mean?
- [66:03]
Parent 2
Yeah, no, I feel you. I use my. I use like these nice ass gel pens that I got on Amazon and they're so. You know when something just writes so silky and smooth and it just feels so good and satisfying. Like that's how they. That's how they feel when they write.
- [66:16]
Parent 1
So like that's what we Coloring when.
- [66:18]
Parent 2
Coloring with it in your adult coloring book is like it hits different. Like it just feels so good and relaxing. Girl, that is my. I love it so much.
- [66:27]
Parent 1
Okay.
- [66:29]
Parent 2
Coloring books and such adults puzzles.
- [66:32]
Parent 1
We do have it down in the dm. It's a long one. What?
- [66:40]
Parent 2
Damn, it's going down in the the DMs. Hi ladies. Love you both and have been keeping up with you since 16 and pregnant teen mom too. New podcast viewer and now that I'm a mom, look up to you both for mommy style info and advice. Just want to preface this with I am 28 and now have an almost 7 month old and amazing fiance. So I'm not pressed about this now but needed to vent Sl get this off my chest. Cuz the men we date when we are young are so evil and I can't believe I tolerated this stuff in my early 20s. From like age 20 to 24, I was off and on with a dude I thought I'd marry. What was weird was for the first couple years of the relationship I never met any of his friends or family at the time. I knew that wasn't normal considering how much we talked about marrying each other and having kids and having unprotected sex. We fought over this constantly. He and his family were very close and very religious, so I assumed he was taking it slowly with next steps in the relationship because of their conservative Christian lifestyle. Fast forward to May 2020. It's Covid and we move in together because he said he was finally ready to start taking the steps to have a child and plan an engagement. At this time I had only met his sisters a couple of times and one of his friends. Not even his main friend group or the BFF who he was best man in his wedding and not his parents. But because we had moved in and he literally had my ring choices saved and everything, I I was couldn't argue because he would throw it all in my face and gaslight me. I had a gut feeling he was hiding something. You obviously can't be serious about someone you don't want to introduce to your parents and friend group who you're super close with. One day he left the apartment to quote unquote have lunch with his sister and when he got home we cuddled up on the couch. He was texting over my head and I glanced up and saw heart and a girl's name not his sister and she said it was so nice seeing you today Heart eyes. I immediately asked asked what that was and he tried to lie and show me a tick tock. I told him I saw hearts and asked him to be honest. He still tried to lie so I just got up, got my keys and shoes and left. He followed me in the elevator into my car. I was quiet the whole time while he's trying to spin a lie. I could barely hear him, my ears were ringing and I was mad so I drove off and parked around the corner and called my friend screaming. He got in his car and found where I had parked so I pulled off again still on the phone with my friend. He followed me all over the city while I tried to lose him taking random turns and getting on and off the freeway. Eventually I got enough distance so I went back to the apartment and locked the door and the latch chain locked so he couldn't get in. When he got back, we argued through the door and he gave me his phone to prove his innocence. He had obviously deleted everything. So I started seeing red and just called the girl and was like, hey, do you know you are dating my live in boyfriend? She played dumb and hung up. So I started losing it. I let him in to pack his shit and leave. We wrestled for his phone. The police were called resulting in him getting arrested. While in cuffs, I took a pic of him getting put in the back of the cop car. When the cops took him, I texted his sister to come pack his stuff and that I didn't want him back here. His sister called me and admitted to me she didn't know we were still together. I only met her twice, total over four years or that we were living together. She told me basically he had told everyone we were not anything serious and that he was living with a guy friend and the girl I caught him texting was his girlfriend that was also a family friend. She was also implied that I had understood the seriousness of the situation. Mind you, we signed a lease together and we're actively trying for a baby. So he was living a double life. And I wish I had left and trusted my gut. Thank God I didn't get pregnant. We were literally doing IUI with our doctor. I snapped and sent the pic of him in cuffs to the girl he was cheating with and his parents and sent a long unhinged message about how he trapped me in the lease with him and tried to trap me with a baby. After all that, he begged for a year to get back with me and paid for my lasik, trying to prove he wanted to save the relationship. It's now the end of 2021. After getting my free Lasik, I blocked him. I did some stalking just to find out. Six months after he paid for my lasik, he got married to another girl. Not even the one I found out about. Where do men find the time and audacity? Fuck men. Happy I found my person. But what the fuck was 23, 24 year old me thinking? We paid for your Lasik. Like I would have been happy about that. Like you, I got new eyes. That's. You can blame it on that. You have your old eyes and now you have new eyes and you can.
- [70:57]
Parent 1
See through all the 1000%. It's like, isn't our frontal lobe not always like developed, not developed till 25? Yeah. So like, I do think that that is part of it. That's why when people are like, oh, pick your kids out when they're 18. First of all, they're babies. Like 18 is that young. Like you're still in fucked up relationships until at least 25.
- [71:21]
Parent 2
Dude, if my mom kicked me out at 18, I would have been like, like, what the fuck do I do? Like, I mean I would have got my, I would have got my shit together, but I would have been devastated. Like, I'm not an adult the way I thought I was. Like, not the way I was thinking I was adulting. That was not adulting.
- [71:38]
Parent 1
No, I thought. Of course I thought I was on top of the world when I was 23.
- [71:41]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [71:42]
Parent 1
Years old. But Alessandra said it's actually not developed until 30 years old in people that have ADHD. Which makes sense because at 30 years old I have, I have ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD years ago. I'm unmedicated. I, yeah, would agree with that because at 30 years old I had some sort of awakening. I don't know what it was. I don't know. But I really like only been in the last two years that I really have, like, like I'll even go back and like certain things shouldn't be said and be like, hey, like, can you just double check that I didn't try to air them out in a way that like it's more so like therapy versus like airing people out. And I think that. But like I was with Chris until 25. Like, or how old was I with Creed? Creed before. You're 28. But like, yeah. So before 30 and 30 years old.
- [72:32]
Parent 2
After I got married. What? 20? Like 20, 20, 18. Right.
- [72:38]
Parent 1
So basically what we're saying is don't get married or have children until after 25 or 30, depending on your situation.
- [72:45]
Parent 2
Yeah.
- [72:46]
Parent 1
I would say you're not even fully married at 25.
- [72:48]
Parent 2
I would say even. Wait. I should, if I, I should have waited.
- [72:52]
Parent 1
I should have waited.
- [72:53]
Parent 2
We all should have. Just wait. Like, just wait. It's hard, man. Is a, it's a full time job also just like maintaining relation. Like, like a relationship on top of like everything else in life. Like, it is, it's a lot.
- [73:08]
Parent 1
It is a lot.
- [73:09]
Parent 2
But I agree with that. Just remember you heard it here first. Our frontal lobes are not developed till 30. So don't make any life changing decisions till after 30.
- [73:19]
Parent 1
Yeah.
- [73:22]
Parent 2
Time.
- [73:23]
Parent 1
We'll talk to you all next week. We hope you loved this episode and yeah.
- [73:30]
Parent 2
Bye guys.
- [73:31]
Parent 1
Love ya, Pluto.
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Patrick is me. Oh, Forrest Gump. Come on, Criminal minds Solving crime after bedtime.
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