Mixed Emotions

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Mixed Emotions" – Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

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Episode Details:

• Title: Mixed Emotions
• Release Date: November 19, 2024
• Hosts: Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
• Podcast: Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

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1. IVF Journey Update

Becky opens the episode by providing an update on her and Leah's reciprocal IVF journey. She shares both good and bad news, delving into the emotional complexities of their experience.

• Becky (01:22):

  "As of right now, on good news and bad news, I'll give the bad news first... Unfortunately, my transfer did not take, which is totally fine. And we can speak through kind of the emotional process that I went through with that."

While Becky faced a failed transfer, Leah succeeded, resulting in Leah's pregnancy. This dual outcome highlights the unpredictable nature of IVF treatments.

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2. Emotional Impact of Failed Transfer

Becky reflects on the emotional turmoil caused by the failed transfer, emphasizing the importance of support systems during such times.

• Becky (02:13):

  "Leah is pregnant, which is crazy. And I feel like it hasn't hit me, right? Like I'm about to be a mom and Leah is carrying my embryo. And that is wild."

• Becky (04:11):

  "I can't stress enough. We need villages to get us through these dark times. And society puts this emphasis on women that they need to go through this alone so other people can't grieve with you."

Becky discusses societal pressures on women to keep pregnancies private until the 12-week mark, which can lead to loneliness during miscarriages or failed transfers.

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3. Leah's Pregnancy Confirmation

The conversation shifts to Leah's successful pregnancy, celebrating the joyous news amidst mixed emotions.

• Becky (16:42):

  "We're all scared because Leah's emotions have been all over the place recently."

Becky recounts the anxiety and hope intertwined in receiving the pregnancy news, highlighting the rollercoaster of emotions both hosts experience.

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4. Societal Expectations on Pregnancy Announcements and Grief

Becky critiques societal norms that discourage early pregnancy announcements, advocating for open conversations to normalize miscarriages and reduce the stigma around grief.

• Becky (04:48):

  "Miscarriages happen. It is very common. It's not talked about enough. And the more you talk about it, the more we normalize it, the less that we have to grieve in such an impactful, negative way."

She underscores the necessity of support from loved ones, arguing against the isolation often imposed by societal expectations.

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5. Listener Story: Jamie's Grief and Questions

A heartfelt listener message from Jamie is introduced, sharing her grief over losing both her biological and stepfather within two weeks.

• Jamie’s Message (26:00):

  "In September 2022, I became a member of the DDC not once but twice. My biological father, who I had a mostly estranged relationship with, passed away two weeks later... How do I process the grief of losing them without minimizing or honoring the other?"

Kail and Becky respond empathetically, affirming Jamie's feelings and discussing the complexities of grieving multiple losses simultaneously.

• Becky (30:18):

  "For someone that has shown the growth and understanding this much, I think that it's naturally going to come in, in a way, and it just might take time."

• Kail (33:05):

  "Grief is weird... If she told me, my dad died, he was never a part of my life, and my stepdad died and he was the part of my life for me, I don't think that I would ever question why she's grieving the loss of her father."

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6. Personal Reflections on Grief and Relationships

Becky shares her experiences caring for her father during his battle with dementia and Parkinson's, highlighting the emotional and logistical challenges faced.

• Becky (36:03):

  "We had to chase him that man down so many times... I had to restrain him because he was physically able to run."

She discusses the lack of adequate support systems for caregivers dealing with aggressive behavior in patients with dementia, advocating for better facilities and resources.

• Becky (43:00):

  "There isn't Many places facilities that are equipped to deal with anger from dementia or Alzheimer's... We struggle a lot finding the right care."

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7. Coping Mechanisms and Support Systems

The hosts explore strategies for managing grief and caregiving stress, emphasizing the importance of open communication and financial planning for end-of-life care.

• Becky (58:34):

  "Our generation, the generation above us are more agreeable to going into assisted livings than our parents are."

• Kail (55:13):

  "I just cannot imagine a world where I... don't want my kids to have to take care of me."

They discuss the necessity of setting up care plans and financial strategies to alleviate the burden on future generations, encouraging listeners to seek professional advice.

• Becky (56:12):

  "There are certain life insurance policies that aren't necessarily a life insurance policy. It's a care plan where you're putting money into it in case they ever need medical assistance in the future."

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8. Final Thoughts and Closing

Becky and Kail conclude the episode by reflecting on their personal growth through shared grief and the strengthening of their friendship. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast and share their experiences, fostering a community of support and understanding.

• Becky (66:50):

  "Thanks for coming on this journey with us. Thanks for the feedback. It's been awesome to be back and I'm looking forward to having more conversations and hopefully not crying as much."

• Kail (67:01):

  "Cry with Kale. Five stars. All right, see ya."

The hosts emphasize the importance of vulnerability and emotional honesty in navigating life's complexities, reinforcing the podcast's mission to provide a relatable and supportive space for listeners.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Becky (02:13):

  "Leah is pregnant, which is crazy. And I feel like it hasn't hit me, right? Like I'm about to be a mom and Leah is carrying my embryo. And that is wild."

• Becky (04:48):

  "Miscarriages happen. It is very common. It's not talked about enough. And the more you talk about it, the more we normalize it, the less that we have to grieve in such an impactful, negative way."

• Becky (30:18):

  "For someone that has shown the growth and understanding this much, I think that it's naturally going to come in, in a way, and it just might take time."

• Kail (33:05):

  "Grief is weird... If she told me, my dad died, he was never a part of my life, and my stepdad died and he was the part of my life for me, I don't think that I would ever question why she's grieving the loss of her father."

• Becky (36:03):

  "We had to chase him that man down so many times... I had to restrain him because he was physically able to run."

• Becky (43:00):

  "There isn't Many places facilities that are equipped to deal with anger from dementia or Alzheimer's... We struggle a lot finding the right care."

• Kail (55:13):

  "I just cannot imagine a world where I... don't want my kids to have to take care of me."

• Becky (56:12):

  "There are certain life insurance policies that aren't necessarily a life insurance policy. It's a care plan where you're putting money into it in case they ever need medical assistance in the future."

• Becky (66:50):

  "Thanks for coming on this journey with us. Thanks for the feedback. It's been awesome to be back and I'm looking forward to having more conversations and hopefully not crying as much."

• Kail (67:01):

  "Cry with Kale. Five stars. All right, see ya."

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Conclusion:

In "Mixed Emotions," Kerry & Chaos hosts Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter navigate the intricate interplay of joy and sorrow within their IVF journey, personal loss, and the broader societal expectations surrounding pregnancy and grief. Through candid conversations and shared vulnerabilities, they offer listeners a heartfelt exploration of modern adulthood's unpredictable landscape, reinforcing the podcast's commitment to authenticity and relatability.

Transcript

[Kale]

Rolling. Okay, hold on. Ready? 1, 2, 3.

[Becky]

It's really easier if it's just one part.

[Kale]

This mic on? Yes.

[Becky]

Okay, cool. Just go. Just go. Chandler hates us.

[Kale]

Chandler, it's okay. We love you.

[Becky]

Don't. Don't tell. Just tell us the off. Chandler.

[Kale]

He's so nice about it. We need a slate. I'm buying one. Yeah, it'll make me feel more official. Anyway, you just heard the chaos to the karma.

[Becky]

And you did hear the chaos to the karma.

[Kale]

Let's leave that in.

[Becky]

All right, welcome back, everyone.

[Kale]

Episode four.

[Becky]

Here she goes.

[Kale]

Alessandra is out of producer mode and in commentator mode. We love a good spectator moment.

[Becky]

We do. Welcome back. Episode four.

[Kale]

We had an influx of responses to the grief portion of our episode episodes. But before we get into that, I want to give an update on you and Leah's reciprocal ivf.

[Becky]

Are you going to give the update?

[Kale]

No, I want you to give it. I already know.

[Becky]

Yeah. So as of right now, on good news and bad news, I'll give the bad news first. Leah and I both did fresh transfers. Five day fresh transfers. For those that are listening that might not know, the two options are either doing a fresh transfer. People do this to. If they have a low embryo count, they would do this because there is a higher chance that the embryo might not make it through the freezing cycle.

[Kale]

So they want a higher chance of survival.

[Becky]

So I unfortunately, like I spoke to, only had one embryo that came out of my retrieval. So because of that, we did a fresh transfer. I just did a fresh transfer as well. Bad news. My transfer did not take, which is totally fine. And we can speak through kind of the emotional process that I went through with that. But Leah's did so.

[Kale]

So she's pregnant.

[Becky]

So Leah is pregnant, which is crazy. And I feel like it hasn't hit me, right? Like I'm about to be a mom and Leah is carrying my embryo. And that is wild. But this whole entire process has been fucking awful that everything has taken the excitement out of it. It's new, it's early. As of when we're recording, there's, I think, like six weeks. I also want to speak about what society does to women and telling them that they should wait 12 weeks before they tell anyone about their pregnancy. It makes it a very lonely process for if something happens. Right.

[Kale]

Well, I think now just to touch on that really quickly, is that what I've been seeing and what I've experienced on my own is like I'm telling the people that I would look for in comfort and support. If there was something that. I've had four miscarriages. So I. And I told people very early on, and I don't regret it, because part of that was, if something goes wrong, I need a support system to lean on.

[Becky]

Kale, I want to kiss you on the forehead.

[Kale]

Very excited. This is not gonna help the dating rumors. This is. She didn't say kiss you hard on the mouth.

[Becky]

Yeah, I know. Just because, like, it is so important. Like, I can't stress enough. We need villages to get us through these dark times. And society puts this emphasis on women that they need to go through this alone so other people can't grieve with you. And that's not fair. We have loved ones and people close to us that are there on purpose that should grieve with us and should be able to celebrate. Why can't everyone around us celebrate right now, regardless of what happens? Right. Hopefully we have a healthy, successful pregnancy, but at the risk of something happening if we're more open about it. Miscarriages happen. It is very common. It's not talked about enough. And the more you talk about it, the more you normalize it, the less that we have to grieve in a such an impactful, negative way. But that is my statement around that.

[Kale]

When you told me the news. One, I felt honored that you trusted me. Two, I did not know whether to support you in a grieving process first or support you in the fact that Leah's.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Is going well. And so I sort of didn't know what to say. And I said that to you. Like, I was very much. Like, I don't.

[Becky]

Checking in on me too.

[Kale]

Yeah. Like, I just didn't know how to go about that. But I know that you were initially, like, pretty upset.

[Becky]

No, I wasn't upset. When I first found out, I had no time to be upset because I was just so happy that Leah was pregnant.

[Kale]

You know what I'm thinking of?

[Becky]

I'm thinking I was upset about my only getting one.

[Kale]

Yes. That's what it was.

[Becky]

I was really upset about this. I actually wasn't. I. I think that because we gave ourselves the opportunity of having success. Two ways that.

[Kale]

Right.

[Becky]

IVF transfers aren't 100 successful. So we knew that both of us had the chance of it not working. And how lucky are we that it did? For one. Right. People don't get that opportunity. People have to go through transfers multiple times. It's okay that I have to be. Be in that role. I think that I can handle that more so than Leah would have been able to handle that. And I'm just right. My. My embryo is inside of Leah like that. My child is growing inside of my wife.

[Kale]

The person that you love with your.

[Becky]

Whole entire freaking science. Like.

[Kale]

So I guess my question surrounding that is, would your implant. Is it an implant? Transfer. Transfer. Would your transfer. Would your transfer be considered a miscarriage?

[Becky]

No, I think it's just a failed transfer.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

I don't know.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

But I would think, yeah.

[Kale]

And you're okay?

[Becky]

Yeah. I. I went through a weird grief for Leah's dad after. I think that there was I almost like a sense of disappointment. Right. Like, when we told him, he asked if both of us were. Or it. And I had to be. No. And I'm going to get upset.

[Kale]

Oh, we're both all. We're all crying today. I've already cried once.

[Becky]

I felt bad.

[Kale]

Because you wanted to carry on his legacy.

[Becky]

Yeah. And it's not like it's over. Right. Like, his opportunity for grandkids isn't over. He's just, you know, I know that he recognizes whose baby she's carrying, so I had to grieve that I didn't give him that, like, opportunity right away, too, which. Yeah.

[Kale]

Do you feel like it's. There's a difference for him? Is that what you mean? Okay.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

And probably a lot of it is made up in my mind of it, but a lot of it's real. Right. Like, we had those conversations when we were trying to have kids and his concern of Leah not using hers first, which we had to speak. And that didn't impact our choice of how we did it, but we had to speak through that with him. Right. And it was a fine conversation, but we had to do that. But we talked about. I talked about this a little yesterday. Like, from that all emotion, I then had to grieve, like, not being able to tell my dad. And so something I didn't expect was, right, like, my dad. Not that Leah's dad cared, but, like, my dad wouldn't have even had that thought process. Like, he would have just been hacked. And. And so, like, I just can picture telling my dad and just him just laughing and just, like, being ecstatic for, like, us and happy for us. Right. So it was just. I wasn't expecting to have that emotional of a reaction to that process of, like, telling him. And then because I've been grieving that part of my dad, of him not knowing my kids for a while. But I guess I never really thought about not being able to tell him that I was going to have kids. And that was hard. Still hard, obviously. But, yeah.

[Kale]

So, yeah, I. I want to recognize that a lot of times in my other podcast and on Teen mom and just in life conversations surrounding relationships with step parents or step grandparents is just either kind of rotten or not great. And I don't think that I could have ever predicted or even thought of sort of the pain or the grief that you would feel in this entire process. Like, I didn't think about that because I know you as a person and I feel like you, you know, knowing that you would have adopted a child or it could have been Leah's embryo, or it could have been, you know, anybody's embryo, and you would love that child no matter what. And so it. It hurts me to hear you have the pain, like, go through that pain. And knowing that, like, your child won't, it's just. It's not the same for him.

[Becky]

And it's like, like that.

[Kale]

That hurts, I think, too, because, like, I. I see it from the step parent side, right? Like, I love Elijah's. I. I don't have any hard feelings for Elijah's family, but, like, his. His family doesn't take on my. My kids that are not Elijah's the same way that he thinks. Are you an angel? Call me that.

[Becky]

Someone called me that. Chandler's giving us tissues for me. I want to make sure it's no and, like, no, I don't want this. Gene is a. I love that man. And he has done. He has, like, given me a lot as a person. And I love him and I know that he loves me. And he's never said that, right? No. But this could be something that I'm making up in my head. He's never, you know, given me the impression that that's how it is, but. And maybe it's just me thinking about how my dad would react to me in this. You know what I mean? In this situation. So I. Gene's a wonderful, wonderful fucking human. And I know that he's going to love that child because he has so much love for Leah. And it, like, maybe it's just me having this sense of guilt that, you know, I didn't get to give that to him yet either, but I know that I will.

[Kale]

Right?

[Becky]

It's not over. It's not like I'm. I'm done trying to do that at any capacity, but it's just like a we. I wasn't expecting this. I wasn't expecting to go through, like, those emotions of. Of having to feel that way. And obviously the climate of the world just brings up, you know, so many other.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

More emotions of it.

[Kale]

So in this way, in such an exciting time, as Alessandra was sort of mentioning, is like, you're grieving the loss of your dad through finding out, like, this super exciting news. Right.

[Becky]

Like, yeah.

[Kale]

Because you, you're not able to tell him and it's still so fresh. It's like you got married and pregnant and your dad died in the same year.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Like all. And a regular person wants to tell their parents and like all of these things are going on and you don't have.

[Becky]

Yeah. It's an interesting concept because I think it's this, like a beautiful disaster of I don't think I'm missing out not being able to tell my dad, but how lucky I am I to know how my dad would have reacted. Right. Like, I don't. I'm not someone that has to question, you know, how he would have reacted to it. And how lucky am I to have that image? There's a lot of people that don't even get the acceptance of their parents or the love of their parents. And so in these moments, I'm, you know, I, I'm sad that I don't get to. To have that with him, but how lucky am I to have that visualization of what it could have been, you know?

[Kale]

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[Becky]

I've always struggled to find jeans that really fit me perfectly, so I'm really excited to give these a try.

[Kale]

Absolutely. These were co founded by Khloe Kardashian and Emma Greed with a mission to redefine fashion through inclusivity and comfort, creating denim that feels as good as it looks, catering to all body shapes and sizes, which is super important to us. And you guys can shop [e-mail] use promo code karma for $50 off your first pair. And don't forget to select podcast at checkout and choose our show to let them know that we sent you Karma and Chaos podcast. Did you tell your mom?

[Becky]

I did, yeah.

[Kale]

What did she say?

[Becky]

She's over the moon. And, and so like, and I told my mom, I hesitated to tell her this early because I didn't want to have. For her to have to grieve through if something happened. Right. That was a different situation and conversation because of the amount of loss that she's been through this year. I didn't want to have to add to that. If something happened, could she handle that? But I'm a firm believer in giving people the option and themselves to have to deal with something or make the choice. And you know, I told my mom and she went from, you know, my mom's been crying and really upset a lot lately in the grief of my dad, which is completely obviously understandable. And this gave her something to be happy about. Right. Like it gave her.

[Kale]

Because there's no more. There's no other babies in your family right now, right?

[Becky]

No, not yet.

[Kale]

Like, all your nieces are older.

[Becky]

Yeah. So this will be the first.

[Kale]

No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying like there hasn't been a baby baby for a long time. That's what I'm saying.

[Becky]

15 years.

[Kale]

Right. So that's, that's more so what I.

[Becky]

Mean like, so I got to give her something to be excited about. And I mean, I guess I feel like maybe she's even a little disappointed that I'm not pregnant either. Like, it was really. Yeah. I think there was some sort of, you know, are you going to try again? And maybe that's me overthinking it, but I just find it a very. Like. Is one not enough and not just her in general? I mean.

[Kale]

Yeah, I know.

[Becky]

But for me to think like, that's my automatic reaction to everyone that I have to speak to is like if someone asks if we're. If we're. And it's like, oh, I think it comes from.

[Kale]

It comes from a place of like, love and like trying to support you. I just want to. Like, I can't speak to anybody else, but when I asked you, it's more so like I sort of don't know how to navigate this with you. And like, I'm over the moon for you guys. Like, I knew you'd be excited for Leah. I'm excited for Leah. Texted Leah. But I'm was sort of concerned about your.

[Becky]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kale]

Well being and like, what did you want to try? Like, where are we going?

[Becky]

Yeah, we just set our. We set oursel up for this and, and that's okay, but it's just an unfortunate circumstance that I have to give bad News with good news. And instead of it just being a good news type of situation.

[Kale]

Well, could you just. Instead of saying you can't, like, it's.

[Becky]

It's all out there. Right. So any question if I say Leah's pregnant, it's. Oh, you're not.

[Kale]

See, I wouldn't have thought that way.

[Becky]

Every. It's like every react.

[Kale]

Like if you would have. When you said good news and mad news, I thought you were quitting the podcast.

[Becky]

She's traumatized right now.

[Kale]

I was like. I was like, wait, what? Like, what's like. I just was thought so. If you would have came to me and said, I have really good news, like Leah's pregnant, I would have never thought twice unless you said like, do you know what I mean?

[Becky]

Yeah, I guess it's just not the experience I've had yet.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

And. And it's okay, right? Everyone? This is new for everyone too. This isn't your typical roundabout of pregnancy announcements. So we're navigating it. And I'm just happy. And.

[Kale]

Well, we're all happy.

[Becky]

We're all scared because Leah's emotions have been all over, like, the place recently.

[Kale]

What was her. What was yours? Both of Yalls reactions when you found out.

[Becky]

So what happened was our clinic didn't call us the day that we were supposed to get our results. And that really infuriated us and we didn't know what to do. And that night, Leah hysterically cried in bed that we did what they tell you not to do. Take pregnancy tests because P tests don't come up for IVF as quickly as blood tests do. And so we kept taking P test and disappointing ourselves because they would be negative. And so Leah was crying. Leah doesn't cry that much and get upset. She was crying. I looked at her and I said, if you're not pregnant, I don't know what the is going right now. I didn't say fuck, because she doesn't like when I curse at her.

[Kale]

She's such a. She's like a saint.

[Becky]

Yeah. And I was just like, holy shit. I was like, I really thought I was pregnant, but she really might be pregnant. And the next day I drove to where we got our blood work done. I was like, why the didn't we get our results? And they were like, we can't tell you. You have to call your clinic. So I drove back home. This was in the morning, and I'm pulling. I, like, pulled up to the house and Leah's standing there and she has, like, tears in her eyes and I was like, all right. And she's on the phone with the clinic. And Leah was like, she's like, we. You aren't pregnant. And I was like, okay. And she was like, but I, like, I am. And I just started hysterically crying.

[Kale]

I was not prepared to cry as much as I've cried today. This is like, the third episode I've cried on.

[Becky]

And I like, what is going on? And everyone in the room is bawling right now. It was on an automatic. Like, it. I was like, leah, this is exciting. It's. And she's like, are you sure you're okay? I'm like, I'm okay. Like, we're okay. You're pregnant. And like, obviously just, like, embraced each other. And that was kind of. That a beautiful, weird moment of us just, you know, being thankful. I. I had no other feelings and excitement. I didn't feel sad about myself because this. It's not my only opportunity. You know, she has eight embryos left to try, and, you know, it's not.

[Kale]

Over through the whole. Remember when I asked you, too. I think it was like episode two or something where I asked if. How you guys would be there for each other. I didn't think about it how you guys would be there for each other if one of you was pregnant and one of you wasn't. When I asked you, I was specifically asking for about if one of. If you both got pregnant. I never. The. The grief of a loss or a failed transfer never crossed my mind. But I say all that to say, would you in the future do a transfer to you. Do you think, like, you want the chance to be pregnant now that you've gone through this, or do you think that you. She would carry her own egg, an embryo?

[Becky]

I think I would try one or two more times. And if the transfer didn't work, I don't know if I would try it again.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

Because at that point, if my body does not want to be pregnant, that's okay with me. I've never felt the need to be pregnant in life. I. I would love to be able to carry Leah's embryo, but if. If my body can't, then I don't want to just keep going through her opportunities of caring. I'm going to do another transfer first. I mean, another retrieval first before I do another transfer, though.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

I want to have a couple more. Hopefully a couple more embryos to have just to have in case in the future so I don't have to do that process when we have kids.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So that's well, I'm really excited for you guys.

[Becky]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Kale]

What a whirlwind. A whirlwind of emotions.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

We've all cried. I'm glad that you feel comfortable sharing. Thank you.

[Becky]

I'm excited. Yeah, of course. And I'm excited. I'm pumped to bring a child. And as crazy as this sounds, I'm excited to bring a child into this world because I'm excited to love that child so much that nothing else matters.

[Kale]

I'm excited for more people like you to be on the planet and also more people like Leah. That's.

[Becky]

Yeah. That is very nice. Thank you.

[Kale]

You're just such, like, you and Leah together, too. It's just like. It makes me emotional because I've never really seen an example of that, like how you can be together for almost 10 years and love each other as deeply and intensely as you two do.

[Becky]

Yeah. I feel lucky every. Well, mostly every day. Are we okay?

[Kale]

No, I think it's been a really long week.

[Becky]

It has.

[Kale]

And everything feels emphasized. I don't know what's going on.

[Becky]

Well, it's a. It's a sad week. Alessandra is here as our producer, and we wanted to give her a mic so that she can chime in anytime she wants because she keeps us on track.

[Kale]

I think in the future, I would love to have Chandler have a mic as well.

[Becky]

Oh, yeah.

[Kale]

What Keem was to baby mamas, if you guys remember. K on baby mamas. Chandler is to karma and chaos. And we love Chandler.

[Becky]

We do love Chandler.

[Kale]

And we're gonna put a face to the. The. The. We're gonna put a face to the man behind the camera on Instagram and take a little video. Maybe we should make, like, a little montage. A little compilation is what I'm talking about. A compilation of Chani Chan.

[Becky]

So follow killer network Instagram.

[Kale]

Yes. We're gonna highlight Chandler.

[Becky]

Yeah. Wow.

[Kale]

So we've already sobbed our eyes out for the first 10 minutes of this episode. So where do we go from here?

[Becky]

I know. What's next?

[Kale]

No, like, truly, I have no idea because it's one of those things where, like, in therapy, when you. When you're working through something in therapy and then, like, it sort of like, you. You feel a relief, and then where do you go from the rest of. With the rest of the therapy session?

[Becky]

I guess we just have to keep the train going because we listened and we heard your feedback from the first episode, and there was an overwhelming amount of support and just understanding to the grief that we kind of spoke through. And I think that the beginning of this episode touches kind of on those unknown moments of grief that are going to continue to kind of pop up. I appreciate when people reach out and tell me their stories of grief. There was so many people that sent messages to me of just simul similarities of losing a friendship, losing a friendship, then going through grief and then reconnecting after it because of whatever grief did, or losing a friendship because of grief and then reconnecting after and having this aha moment of I didn't know what to do during that moment I lost myself. Which we both can kind of relate to.

[Kale]

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[Becky]

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[Kale]

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[Becky]

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[Kale]

And with every purchase you make at Uncommon Goods, they give back $1 to a nonprofit partner of your choice. They've donated more than $3 million to date. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com karma that's UncommonGoods.com karma for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods we're all out of the ordinary so some of the submissions that we got include a pretty lengthy one that I would like to read from a listener, Jamie, and she says, hi, Kale and Becky. First of all, I just want to get it out of the way. Kale, you never have to worry about losing listeners because you pivoted. Those of us who have followed your whole journey know and understand that a pivot doesn't mean malicious activity was at play. Thank you so much for that. I believe that you do what you need to do to succeed for your family. Being as transparent as you are cannot be easy. I will always be that mom in your corner, feeling pride for a person. Why am I going to cry again? Can y'all stop? Do I cannot do this. Anyway, unfortunately, in September 2022, I became a member of the DDC not once but twice. My biological father, who I had a mostly estranged relationship with, passed away two weeks later. The dad who raised me from three years on until his death passed away. So she lost two people in two weeks. During the last few months of both of their lives, I had the privilege of spending time with each of them and was given the gift of conversation. You might have to pick up. Okay, because I can't stop crying. The good news about my story is not much went unsaid. I was able to understand my biological father for the man he was. His lack of parental excellence was not a flaw in his character, but rather a role he was not equipped to Play. As a 50 year old woman who had always judged this man to be uncaring, selfish and purposely absent, I was able to learn and grasp that some people are not meant to be parents and that is okay. He was a good man. He gave to others. He gave to his country through military service for 39 years. He was a terrible father. For so long I just believed all those things put together could not be true. I believed he couldn't be a good man but be a bad father. So my visits with him during the last months of his life were very eye openening. Cleaning his home out after his death was even more eye openening. Where he was not present in my life, I was present in. Can you take over? I can't do this. I was present in his. I was all through his home where whether it was photos, cards I sent, etc, I was thought about. I believed I was. I can't read. You're gonna have to take over.

[Becky]

I don't think I can. I believe I was loved. My point to this is for those of you who have absentee fathers, please know that they may bring Jesus. I don't.

[Kale]

My point is that for those of you who have absentee fathers, please know that they may be loving you by not forcing a fake relationship they are not capable of. I'm grieving the loss of what I wanted our relationship to be. I wish I would have understood the man he was a lot sooner I could have possibly had a relationship with him that didn't demand the pressure of my expectations. But instead I was a my way or no way type of girl and it was a no way situation. I spent time with the dad who raised me. We too had many conversations. The conversations were different, but also so much the same. He had. He too had regrets, but how he handled certain relationships and actions of his past, I learned about him on a whole new level again seeing him a man and not just a dad. Now that they are both not here, my struggle is processing the grief. I am trying to balance the grief of losing them. I can't decipher what is proper when I grieve my biological father. I feel guilty. I feel like I'm betraying my dad. After all, it was my dad who had every concert, every birthday, every graduation prom, my wedding and was a happy to my children. I feel like there is someone silently judging me for the group. The grief I feel for my father who is not present for any of those things. So that's where I am. How do I process the grief of losing them without minimizing or honoring the other? It's been two years. I am stuck in this vicious cycle of not being able to express my sadness over one without feeling the need to quickly mention the other in fear of disrespecting one of them. What do you ladies think? Any advice? If you are still reading, thank you for listening. I will appreciate any sight that you two may have mps. Becky, being a member of the DDC just plain sucks. I'm sorry for your loss. I appreciate you talking about it and sharing. Do you know how hard it was to read that? Oh, I would. I. I never lost a dad. I never lost really. Anyone outside over here sobbing while I was reading through all the emails trying to pick that one I call my dad. That's not funny. But it's like. No but like.

[Becky]

Like what she said really resonated with me. Like some people just really aren't meant.

[Kale]

To be parents and they're doing you a service by not being there.

[Becky]

Yeah, I find it. I find irony in this because Kale, we were. Before we started recording, we were just having a conversation about your mom. And, like, when I read that, I think about what you could gain from having that kind of insight and outlook. Right. Maybe she was never supposed to be a mom, but she's still a person at some capacity. And your expectations were your way or no other way. Like, we were literally just talking about this. And how do you find, how do you find forgiveness? How do you find empathy for someone that you have zero for right now? And.

[Kale]

Well, I think that's been my struggle for the past several years, truly my whole life, is that, like, I know who my mom is as a person when she's sober. And I, I, It's. I go back and forth. There are periods of my time where I forgive her, and there are periods of my time where I'm angry and resentful. And, you know, I talked to my uncle. I wrote about this, and pride over pity was like, my uncle said to me, your mom has always done her best. And it might not be your expectations of what is best, but it was her best. And I just, I, I have a really hard time with that. I don't, I don't know. I always said I won't go to her funeral, but. And maybe I won't, but I think the grieving will still be very difficult.

[Becky]

Yeah. And before I. Jamie, if you're listening, hopefully you are. I just want to say thank you for your words, because while I'm not in the situation of having to manage grief in two different ways, there's other people listening that will read what you wrote or will listen to what you wrote. And I can assure you that your story is going to be incredibly impactful to someone.

[Kale]

I will. I think that both things can be true. You people can't. They won't. They shouldn't be true. People might not understand grief, but grief looks different on everyone. And I think it's perfectly fine to grieve the loss of someone who really wasn't there for you. I also was conflicted in the death of one of my ex boyfriends, and I was very conflicted by that because we didn't have a healthy relationship. And I think, you know, it, It's. We. Grief is weird, right? Like, it's weird in the way that, like, you don't know how it's going to impact you. And it's okay if you're grieving the loss of someone who wasn't there for you because it's still a loss.

[Becky]

Absolutely.

[Kale]

And your feelings, your feelings are still valid. Your grief is still valid. You're allowed to grieve both of them, and people don't have to understand it.

[Becky]

Yeah. And I. I know that she asked for our. Our advice.

[Kale]

I don't have any, unfortunately.

[Becky]

And it's. And it's not even that I don't have any. I just think that even. Just from the words that she put down, she's doing such a great job of navigating already just her openness to understanding a human at their core, opposed to the relationship between two people that is 10 times ahead of anyone else in her situation. And I think that, Jamie, if you're listening, you're doing a phenomenal, like a phenomenal job at grief for the unknowns that come. And it is so okay to not know in this moment of how to move forward. You don't need the answers. But for someone that has shown the growth and understanding this much, I think that it's naturally going to come in, in a way, and it just might take time.

[Kale]

I just feel bad that she even feels like she has to explain the guilt or the grief, like there shouldn't be. It's easy for me to say, too, because I am not in the position. But for me, if she told me, you know, my dad died, he was never a part of my life, and my, you know, my stepdad died and he was a part of my life for me, I don't think that I would ever question why she's grieving the loss of her father. Because grief is so weird and it does very different things to different people. So I'm really sad for her that she even has to feel.

[Becky]

I mean, we talked about this on the first episode. Like, I. I spoke to feeling bad that I was feeling the way that I was. I felt guilty for being upset about something outside of my father when I was grieving my father. So grief brings in these moments of guilt as well, because your mind is thinking of so many other things and situations at full. You just have to give yourself. Give yourself some patience and give yourself some grace. Grief is fucking hard, and there's no playbook to it. And not only is grief hard, relationships are hard. Right. She got the opportunity, and I think that that could help a lot of people that are out there who might not have. Might not have been open to having conversations, to have conversations with people while they're still alive, because that's going to help at some capacity. I have people really close to me that lost someone before they were able to have those conversations. And.

[Kale]

You mean like a healing conversation before they pass?

[Becky]

Yeah. So like an estranged. Yeah. So a strange parent, a strange sibling, a strange friend. People miss out on closure conversations. And sometimes it happens at a point that's just too late. Right. Someone can pass and those conversations weren't had. But also in the same breath, some people don't need conversations to have that closure. So you don't have to force a situation if you don't feel. But if you're listening to this and you're. You're thinking about someone or thinking about a situation, it's worth exploring that thought.

[Kale]

Do you remember before your dad got sick? Like, were there any moments before his diagnosis that stand out to you that you remember whether it be good or bad?

[Becky]

Yeah. So. Right. It was after his diagnosis, but he wasn't sick right away. So there's different stages of dementia. And it was right around the time that my dad should have stopped driving. And so that's a hard conversation to have with someone that is kind of mentally still there is. How do you take away their license and control? And he was set on taking a trip to visit his family in Virginia.

[Kale]

And drive.

[Becky]

Yeah, and drive. Something we did all the time as kids.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

And so my sister and my brother and I decided to take off work and the three. And I'm gonna get upset.

[Kale]

This whole episode is tears. Crying a lot with Becky and Kayla. Yeah, that's what we should have named the podcast, Crying with Kayl and Becky.

[Becky]

The four of us took a road trip down to Virginia together and for whatever reason, I decided to vlog it, thankfully.

[Kale]

And vlogged it.

[Becky]

Yeah. And so there's like a 10 minute video of this trip that me, my brother and sister and dad took. And I'm just so happy for that moment and like, and that trip kind of all together, like, we had such a great time. We just laughed and loved and just got to enjoy life. And my dad got to do something he loved to do. And it was just like a beautiful, a beautiful memory of mine to kind of have.

[Kale]

What made you want to vlog that?

[Becky]

I think I've somewhere inside me knew that that was probably the last time we were going to do that. And I knew that those kinds of situations weren't going to happen that often moving forward. And I just, I've recorded the whole thing and yeah, it's crazy. There's videos after. There's videos of my dad. We were playing cards and he is just hysterically laughing.

[Kale]

He just seemed like such a happy person. Like, even the video. You. Who did you play of me drinking beer for the first time?

[Becky]

He's in the background and he's in.

[Kale]

The background laughing and he just was such like I don't like a light.

[Becky]

Yeah. So that is one of my, my favorite memories that I'm just happy that I have have you heard about senolinics yet? It's a class of ingredients discovered less than 10 years ago and they've been called the biggest discovery of our time for promoting healthy aging and enhancing your physical prime.

[Kale]

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[Becky]

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[Kale]

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[Becky]

Yeah, the person time he met Leah. Leah like turned around and my dad gave me like a double thumbs up and was like nice.

[Kale]

Larry.

[Becky]

He loved Leah so much and that. Yeah. And that is something like I will always treasure for the rest of my life. Probably gonna get upset again but Leah and I like helped care for my father and like those are lines that you never really want to cross. Like never think about or having to cross. Right. Giving your parent a shower, changing your parent stuff of those sorts. And there were just there were a bunch of times that Leah did it because like that's her profession.

[Kale]

Do you think that that that whole experience and doing it with Leah made you guys closer and why.

[Becky]

Yeah, how can I do.

[Kale]

I knew how much you loved her prior to but when you go through something like that like do you think that that also intensified what you already had?

[Becky]

Yeah. And I think that navigate. Right. I think that it also made Leah respect me more as a person. I had to give a lot of grace and I was put in a lot of really difficult situations. My dad faced. My dad faced a Lot of anger in the end couple years. And that was put on me because I was the only one that was physically strong enough to restrain him. And so there's many times that I had to see him look through me and see him look at me like he was ready to kill me. And I think Leah having to watch me go through that kind of. I mean, how do you not come together a little bit more? And even, you know, my dad slept at our house probably for a good six months. He slept at my house for two to three nights a week. And that was on Leah too, right. I guess some comic relief. I had to get locks and like put in. I. I say put in. Like I did. I wasn't the one that did it. I put in locks in my, in my. Like I had a deadpool all the doors and stuff because one night Leah woke up for a 6am shift and my dad was missing from the bed and the door was open and. And you guys have been all to my house. I live in the middle of nowhere on the top of a mountain. My dad was a runner, so he was like, he was gone. And Leah, before she, Before Leah decided to wake me up, she went outside and then saw the garage door open. And then in her mind she was like, maybe it's not Larry, maybe someone's breaking in. So she runs back inside, wakes me up and she's like, back, Larry's gone. And this is a very normal thing. Like it's not. I had to go searching for my dad a lot of times and I woke up and I was like, fuck, all right, put my shoes on, go to get my car. And he is passed out in my car.

[Kale]

He was going to Virginia, he was.

[Becky]

Sleeping and I was just like, oh my God, never again. And after that night, I deadbolted every single door that I could so that I never. I could sleep a little bit more peacefully.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Knowing that he wasn't gone. Oh, we've had. We had to chase him that man down so many times.

[Kale]

He was like physically able to like run around my.

[Becky]

That man could run three miles. That, that, that's what the, the problem was was his anger propelled him.

[Kale]

The anger propelled was strong.

[Becky]

I had to. I'm a strong person. I had to use my full might to control this. Like I had to everything. It was a wild, wild time. I think one of the things that I'd like to say there's la. Such a lack of help and support in those situations. We struggled a lot finding the right care. There isn't Many places facilities that are equipped to deal with anger from dementia or Alzheimer's. You have to result to psych like wards that will eventually just dump medicine into someone. It's a really. Because it's a double edged sword. Right. Sword. Right. You. How can you put someone into a facility that doesn't have the necessities there to protect other people from their anger. But then.

[Kale]

But you're not equipped to take care of them either. So then what is the solution in taking care of.

[Becky]

It was a lot. I mean, and my dad fought for disability from the VA and took. I think it was like four or five, six times. He got denied. The beginning of this year, he finally got approved for disability like 100 disability. My dad was at Camp Lejeune, which has a lot of lawsuits out of it because of the toxic order that was there. And so that's what we were had been fighting for because my dad had Parkinson's too. And he finally got disability, which is the only reason we were able to get him into a facility. And I know people might be listening and saying the VA offers facilities.

[Kale]

You have to fight for it.

[Becky]

If anyone knows anything about the VA facilities, you know that it's.

[Kale]

It's a death. Yeah, 100%. Also, I didn't know your dad served. What branch was it he was in the armies. Oh, the Marines. Okay.

[Becky]

Yeah. So just navigating all that. Parents didn't have financial stability or ability to, you know, put him somewhere that could help. And my mom didn't deserve that either. Right. My mom didn't deserve the weight of. Of caring for someone in that situation. And it wasn't fair for her. And that was really hard as well. So we were able finally to get him into a facility earlier this year. But he was only there for a couple weeks before we brought him home.

[Kale]

I think I asked you this before, but remind me, did you hold any resentment for your siblings who. Who couldn't help you care for your dad in the same way?

[Becky]

No. Honestly, I was happy that they also didn't have to go through that pain. Why. Why make all of us go through it? Right? Like their help wouldn't have burdened me less. My sister Alex did everything that she could from Florida. She did everything to make sure my dad's medical needs were met, everything she could to make sure she managed their finances. She managed getting my dad's appeals submitted. She did everything she could from not like without being present. And in the moments of hardship, right when my dad started getting way too violent, we needed everyone Showed up. Right. And so during the other months, at least for me, I don't hold any. Anything towards them of. Because why. Why should I want their. Them to feel that pain? They know.

[Kale]

No, I guess I just mean more.

[Becky]

So their help wouldn't have eased it.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Okay. That's. I guess that's what I'm asking. I. I've talked about.

[Becky]

At least for me.

[Kale]

Right, right.

[Becky]

For me, their help wouldn't have eased my pain.

[Kale]

You're right.

[Becky]

I do. I do feel bad that I. I feel bad for myself and I feel bad for my mom because a lot of my siblings got to see my dad during the holidays where he wasn't having moments of crisis. And so we kind of sound like crazy people talking, like, you know, talking through the struggles of something that's not seen. So I think we talked. I think we talked about it the first episode that. When my. When we brought my dad home, when it was his, like, final week, all my siblings came and we had this week of just memories and talking and hanging out and spending time together, and that was something else. Never be able to pay. Like, that was just amazing.

[Kale]

I, I don't. I. I don't have any experience with losing a, A, A parent or, or anything like that, but I have a very weird, maybe unpopular opinion about death. I don't want my kids to take care of me in any capacity. I don't want to. I want to. I don't want them to have to pay for me to go somewhere. I don't want them to take care of me at home. I do not want them to be responsible for me.

[Becky]

There was a. I don't know if it was a meme or a podcast or something that I listened to or saw, and it spoke to. The biggest disservice you can do as a parent is not setting yourself up for end of life care.

[Kale]

My end of life care is that I told my kids to kill me.

[Becky]

Oh, my God. Unfortunately, that's not an option. I would have killed Larry.

[Kale]

I think there's assistance.

[Becky]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Kale]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What did she say?

[Becky]

I would have killed Larry did not deserve to be living the life. Let's say yes, yes, yes. I would have. I would have did his suffering.

[Kale]

If you could have.

[Becky]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kale]

No, I think certain places do have.

[Becky]

Assisted suicide is a very difficult navigation. You have to be of sound mind consistently for.

[Kale]

But I've been saying this for like 100 years.

[Becky]

Yeah, I know, but you. And you have to say it Consistently in that moment. So if you have Alzheimer's or any type of. You can't do it.

[Kale]

But if I've been saying it on a regular basis for my entire life leading up to that moment, it has.

[Becky]

To be consistent for six months prior to the act of doing it.

[Kale]

Got it.

[Becky]

Okay. And I could be wrong about. But it's something of those sorts.

[Kale]

Okay. There. I don't know if I've ever told this story. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. My. My grandparents had a pact. Did I tell you this?

[Becky]

No.

[Kale]

My grandparents packed. They were. They helped raise me. My. Their pact was that they also didn't want to be like, I'm putting it in air quotes because I don't. I don't look at it as a burden. But, like, I understand. The thought process was like, if I have to be an assisted living or you cannot care for me. Yeah, you'll kill me. I'll kill. And I'll kill myself. And that was what happened. So my grandmother got really sick. My grandfather could not care for her anymore, and he attempted to kill her. However he was caught doing that.

[Becky]

Did he go to jail?

[Kale]

The morning they went to. They have to put it in the paper, like, where we're from in Wayne County, Pennsylvania. He was found dead in his house. It's like a Romeo and Juliet.

[Becky]

I have been doing this for three and a half years at this point, almost four. And every time there's a recording, there's something that Kale says, and I'm like, what the.

[Kale]

Every time. Every single time, without fail. So the plan was for him to shoot himself in the backyard so that there was no mess. Unfortunately, he.

[Becky]

Who told you this?

[Kale]

I was very present for the. For like, the aftermath.

[Becky]

Not crazy.

[Kale]

If I may.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

If you will. And so when they. My uncle couldn't get in touch with him. He was like the caretaker. He was the child of. You know, he was the youngest, actually, of all the siblings. And he was, you know, the caretaker because nobody else was capable or wanted to found his body. And he had bled out from natural causes. But that was the morning that they were supposed to run it in the paper that he was being arrested and indicted, which is a coffee combos thing for attempted homicide of my grandmother.

[Becky]

Fascinating. Your grandma was already dead.

[Kale]

Attempted homicide. Attempted murder, I guess, because he was poisoning her.

[Becky]

And then. But did.

[Kale]

She never died. She. He got caught before he killed her. So he died before she did. So she. He was point. Yes, he. Yes, exactly. But he was poisoning her and was. Was caught poisoning Her. Yeah. But by her wishes. That was their pact. I mean, if she. If he would have got sick before she did, that was their pact. Regardless. Like, that's just the type of relationship they had. And so when I was told this, I was floored. But also, they didn't have a funeral. Neither one of them had funerals. They both died. Neither one of them had funerals. So I feel like because of that has sort of shaped my perspective and outlook on death and my kids caring for me and all of the burden that was left on only one of my grandparents kids. And so that's why I was asking about the resentment thing, because I think there was a lot of resentment in, you know, my family, with my mom's siblings, for sure. Okay. I sent Becky skims and I was like, you and Leah have to get these for holiday. Yeah.

[Becky]

And right when you sent them, I got into the holiday spirit. I got. We got matching pajamas.

[Kale]

Becky loves the holidays and shopping for anyone on a list is super overwhelming. So when we saw that Skims launched their holiday shop, we were like, oh, we have to do this. And I think you love them. Yeah.

[Becky]

And it made me even feel like there was something for me.

[Kale]

I love that. So everyone and everyone's family should get skims for the holidays. I love matching, so that's definitely something that I can get behind. I have two Skims robes and I'm obsessed with them. So it's pieces like this that will make your holiday so much better.

[Becky]

Shop skimsholiday. [e-mail] available in styles for women, men, kids, and even pets.

[Kale]

If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know that we sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select Karma and chaos in the dropdown menu that follows. Follows.

[Becky]

I mean, I think that there's studies that have come out that show that our generation, the generation above us are more. I'm trying to think of the word agreeable to going into assisted livings than our parents are. There's some.

[Kale]

I don't want to go into assisted living. I want to die.

[Becky]

Okay.

[Kale]

But I want to take a dirt now.

[Becky]

I would love to live in an assisted living community from a younger age and have no worries. Right. Go to happy hour every.

[Kale]

But you're talking about. You're talking about 55 plus communities. You're not talking about an assisted living facility where you're getting rolled over so you don't get bed sores.

[Becky]

No, no, but those are two of the same. Right. Like we're like, you prep yourself starting in a community that has a 55 older. Start your life there, and then as your medical needs progress, they have the ability to continue that progression. So no one else is responsible for taking care of you.

[Kale]

Here's the thing. I truly recommend that what, no matter what sort of, no matter what your tax bracket is, no matter what your savings plan is, is truly to talk to a financial advisor. Because I didn't start saving for like retirement until like the last, like seven years, like five years.

[Becky]

My sister is my financial advisor. She does that if anyone wants to.

[Kale]

Oh, maybe I should switch mine over.

[Becky]

Yeah, she's great. She handles my 401k and all that stuff. And she's like a huge advocate of setting yourself up for those purposes. Because obviously we've lived through what happens when you don't. And it's the best thing to do.

[Kale]

I just cannot imagine a world where I. And obviously I'm not. This is no shade to you. Obviously you've went through a great deal of pain. But I just can't imagine, like, my kids taking care of me also. They probably wouldn't do a good job. Shout out to Isaac, but he would never shower me. I'm.

[Becky]

I'm curious to know, like, if your feelings would have. Would change if you had a closer relationship with your parents.

[Kale]

Because I don't think you can imagine.

[Becky]

The kind of love that a child has for a good parent because you didn't experience it. Like, I will literally, I literally told Billy when we met that if my mom ever needed it, I will literally kick him out of our own bed.

[Kale]

To take care of her.

[Becky]

Like, my goal in life, the reason I work so hard, I literally could cry, is that I want to retire my mom. I want to take care of her. I have a policy and this is what I was going to say if you guys do want to. There are certain life insurance policies that.

[Kale]

You can have on somebody else.

[Becky]

That isn't necessarily a life insurance policy. It's a care plan where you're putting.

[Kale]

Money into it in case they ever need medical assistance in the future.

[Becky]

I have one on my mom. So I wonder if your feelings about that would be different if you felt that way towards your parents. Because I think everything you're doing and the way that you're setting yourself up for your kids and your relationship between them, they will feel very differently about it when you're older. They will want to take care of you. They will want to love you. My mom is only 61 and I'm.

[Kale]

Already seeing that cycle begin where I'm.

[Becky]

Worrying about her the same way she worried about me. And the care cycle begins because I don't love anyone more than I love my mom, and I'm going to take.

[Kale]

Care of her till the day she.

[Becky]

Dies the way that I watched my mom do for her mom. Sorry, I didn't mean to pull that.

[Kale]

One out, but I think I'm just curious, like, because I'm sitting here and listening to you about it.

[Becky]

And, like, I've heard you say it all the time.

[Kale]

I've heard you, like, you have said.

[Becky]

It so many times. I tell my kids to push me.

[Kale]

Down the stairs, like, feel like everything that you have described today is, like, my worst fears, but I never want them to go. Like. And I think that you are way stronger than I am. And I think that, you know, like you said, you. You're glad that you took it on and, you know, your siblings didn't have to experience that. But I just, like, I can't imagine a world where my kids would even. I don't want any of them to.

[Becky]

But I think that there's different levels to it. My dad was sick, right? Not every person dies from a sickness, right? So old age and needing help is a lot different than someone that's suffering from especially something like dementia, Alzheimer's, or anything of those sorts. So if my mom. I'll take care of my mom forever. I don't think it's fair for someone to take care of someone that is that sick.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

It wasn't. It wasn't fair to anyone. It wasn't fair to my dad.

[Kale]

I was about to say that it.

[Becky]

Wasn'T fair to my mom. Mom. It wasn't fair to me to have to take care of someone who is sick if my dad was just old and just needed to be careful.

[Kale]

Completely different story.

[Becky]

It's different. Right?

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

And I think that this. I think society has failed for us to have the ability to care for someone that is in need, especially at that, you know, at elder care or whatever that looks like. Leah sees it all the time. People coming into the hospital being dropped off because they don't know what else to do with them. Like, we don't have options for people. It's.

[Kale]

And if there is options, we don't talk about it because nobody can afford that.

[Becky]

So old age is different. Right? My mom, if. And we have to have that hard conversation with my mom of her saving money in. In case something happens. And there's two situations we're not telling her to save money because no one will care for her. Because if my mom never gets sick, it's never really. That's never really an issue. But if she gets sick, you don't want to do that to someone again. She saw what it. You know, she saw my dad. And so it's just not a situation. You should want to put someone kind of through Leah's parents too. I would. We would take care of Leah's parents in a heartbeat if we had to. But it's really like I'm setting myself up so my kids never have to be put in that situation. And hopefully that day never comes. Because there is a world that that day doesn't come. Right. You just die of old age.

[Kale]

Right.

[Becky]

You're good until you're not. In a week, you're. You know what it like, that's best case scenario.

[Kale]

Right.

[Becky]

But you know, that's not how it works for everyone.

[Kale]

Interesting.

[Becky]

But you're. You're doing a phenomenal job raising your children with so much love that there isn't a world that they wouldn't take care of you.

[Kale]

I don't want to.

[Becky]

I know, but know that Isaac is.

[Kale]

Not feeding me with a spoon. I promise you. He's not touching the drool. The not wiping my.

[Becky]

He's just not Long time.

[Kale]

But no, no, because I'm. One of my fears is getting old, so I don't want to live past a certain age anyway.

[Becky]

Fair. But you could live a healthy life until one day you just die. You say 65 get. Oh, my.

[Kale]

That's what. My grandma got sick.

[Becky]

Okay, so that's your like. Yeah. 65 is not old. No, it's not.

[Kale]

Well, that's where I tap out.

[Becky]

No.

[Kale]

Yes. That's another 30 years. I don't want to live past that. Like, I'm tired.

[Becky]

You.

[Kale]

Well, you've lived a long life.

[Becky]

You don't want to see your kids. You don't want to see your kids get married.

[Kale]

Well, they probably won't. What?

[Becky]

They're children. Stop.

[Kale]

Where do we go from here? I just. I don't know. It's.

[Becky]

What day?

[Kale]

No, today has truly been like, this entire day has been. And it's 3:00. It's so weird that we've like, laughed, we've cried. We fought less than 24 hours ago. We were yelling at each other.

[Becky]

Okay. I was not like. Yeah, he was not involved.

[Kale]

Let's clarify that.

[Becky]

Becky was not involved.

[Kale]

Becky was just.

[Becky]

I was looking back and forth like, the carnage. What?

[Kale]

The carnage?

[Becky]

What did I What did I get myself back involved in? That's what I was.

[Kale]

Did you like how we all worked through it? We sat there until we came through. She's got to say something like, no, I do want to hear her perspective, actually. This would be interesting.

[Becky]

I am no stranger to how Kale communicates, so I knew it wasn't anything than what it was. I think that I was just a little shocked because it's been a really long time since I've seen people communicate like that, that it's.

[Kale]

We are an entire group of very spicy, fierce Alpha women. Yes.

[Becky]

And so there's not one single beta amongst us.

[Kale]

And so it's always a fight for that. Not a fight.

[Becky]

I don't want to say that.

[Kale]

Everyone's. It's as strong. It's the last word. It's.

[Becky]

Yes.

[Kale]

And we're all very stubborn. And we all think we're right and we're all. It's a lot. I think all of our goals are the same. Yeah, exactly. Right. But getting there is not. We're not on the same path at all.

[Becky]

Yeah. And it's not. It's not fighting about things that aren't important. Right. The conversation was a business conversation, and it was about what can we do to move forward and be better and build and grow? And so it was a very valid conversation.

[Kale]

The delivery was off.

[Becky]

I don't know if it was off. That's just kind of how you guys. You guys are like. You guys know that. So that's okay. Right? You're not going to walk away from that conversation holding a grudge or feeling some type of way.

[Kale]

I hope not. I mean, I know I don't. We had several conversations about this prior. Like, you and I just texted about it.

[Becky]

I take nothing personal in that situation. Like a business conversation is business.

[Kale]

But that's difficult.

[Becky]

That's why it's difficult to do business with friends. The reason things get the way they do, the reason the conversations end up.

[Kale]

Being that way, because we all are friends. That's why I said to my mom.

[Becky]

I was like, we were having this conversation.

[Kale]

Sounds like Thanksgiving. It's like family. Do you know what I mean?

[Becky]

It's like we all, like you said.

[Kale]

We all have the end. Same end goal. We just need to hear out everyone's ideas of how to get there so we can put them all together to make the best possible plan.

[Becky]

And in saying that we're all alpha.

[Kale]

Females who think that we all are right. We all. We all are.

[Becky]

Best plan.

[Kale]

We all are right. So when we have all of our information and we're putting it all together, can get a little loud. That's all. The whole conversation, for those of you guys listening, just to give you some context, was, are we touring in 2025? What does merch look like? Killer is growing exponentially and has exploded in the last six months. What are we doing? And so that sort of. And then, obviously, the abrupt ending of baby mom.

[Becky]

Adding employees.

[Kale]

Adding employees. Adding, you know, or independent contractors. You know, all of that is just like, how do we all get what needs to be done in a very, very, very short amount of time? Especially because karma and chaos was born in pure chaos.

[Becky]

For real.

[Kale]

Becky also went down memory lane showing us pictures of her with my kids.

[Becky]

I did. Yeah.

[Kale]

That was crazy. A wild ride.

[Becky]

That was a wild ride.

[Kale]

Because I was like, wow, they're so little.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

And then five years goes by, and you're like, wait, they're grown.

[Becky]

I know. I can't wait to see them. We've been talking. I'm going to go spend some time with Gail. And she just constantly keeps saying that she's not prepared for me to see the chaos of what unfolds at her house. And it feels like she's trying to tell me not to come.

[Kale]

No, that's not it. Here's the thing is that I used to live in a world where I wanted my friends at my house all the time. And it was a coping situation. It was codependency. It was a lot of different things. I have seven kids, and I think that people give me entirely too much credit for thinking that I have my life under control, and I absolutely do not. And so when someone comes into my world now with seven kids and 12 chickens, two. Two ducks, four goats, three pigs, three cats, two dogs is like. And Elijah. Elijah is the partridge in the pear tree. It. It. I want to fully prepare the person for what they're about to.

[Becky]

It's all people in this world. You think that I couldn't comprehend what your life could possibly look like?

[Kale]

No, I absolutely do, but it still scares me.

[Becky]

Yeah, but. But you. And I said this to you before. Is then you're taking away my ability to form relationships with the kids I've never met, have time with the kids that I have met and want to re. Meet. Right. They're different people now than they were the last time I met them, obviously. And I'll be pissed if you do that.

[Kale]

No, I want you to come. I just want you to be prepared because there's a lot of crying. There's a lot of screaming. There's a lot of throwing up. No, I'm just kidding. There's no throwing up. But.

[Becky]

And what has happened the past two days?

[Kale]

You know, I have. I need.

[Becky]

Your life is chaotic.

[Kale]

The kids are not unlike us. Yeah, no, I just real. I have toddlers and babies, and so that's a really difficult mom. I just want you to be prepared is all. Because when I left teen mom, you know, my kids, I got a lot of kudos for how well behaved my kids are. I've added four more since then. It is not the same. Okay?

[Becky]

The concept of adding four more is just so crazy.

[Kale]

So buckle up.

[Becky]

I'm camp I'm.

[Kale]

And we'll see you in Delaware.

[Becky]

Yeah, I'll see you in Delaware.

[Kale]

Where can you find us? You can find us on social media, Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, Karma, and Chaos Pod. You can follow Becky@aster25. She also has a blog and a website, Becky hater.com and you can find me, Kale and the Chaos. Wherever you get podcasts, just type in my name somewhere.

[Becky]

Thanks for coming on this journey with us. Thanks for the feedback. It's been awesome to be back and I'm looking forward to having more conversations and hopefully not crying as much, but.

[Kale]

Maybe crying, I don't know, it makes me feel better. Go follow our podcast on Spotify, Apple. Wherever you get your podcast, tag somebody and rate and review on Apple podcast app and Spotify.

[Becky]

Yeah, go right now and say I related to this I I or I empathize or I love to see Kale cry.

[Kale]

Cry with Kale. Five stars. All right, see ya.

[Becky]

Bye.

[Kale]

Pluto TV is a place for movie fans like me and TV fans like me. They've got something for everyone and it's free.

[Becky]

I love free. And I love Jersey Shore.

[Kale]

For me, it's the Godfather, SpongeBob Square, wear pants.

[Becky]

I am Patrick.

[Kale]

Patrick is me. Oh, Forrest Gump. Come on, Criminal minds. Solving crime after bedtime, whatever you love to watch. Pluto TV makes it easy with thousands of free movies and shows. Pluto TV stream now pay never.

[Becky]

Hi, I'm Stassi Schroeder. On my podcast, I share candid updates from my personal life, chat with some of my best friends about what's going on in our lives, give commentary on the latest pop culture headlines, and sometimes deep dive into random topics. I'm obsessed with, like, human design. It's a bit all over the place, but that's how I like it. And you will too. Listen to my podcast Stasi. Wherever you get your podcasts.