Rekindling Friendships; is it worth the karma OR the chaos?

Summary

Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
Episode: Rekindling Friendships; Is It Worth the Karma OR the Chaos?
Release Date: March 11, 2025

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In this compelling episode of Karma & Chaos, hosts Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter delve deep into the intricate dynamics of rekindling friendships after a fallout. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, emotional insights, and thoughtful advice, making it a relatable and enlightening listen for anyone navigating the complex terrain of modern adulthood friendships.

1. Introduction to Rekindling Friendships

The episode opens with Kail and Becky setting the stage for a heartfelt discussion on whether rekindling a friendship is worth the potential karma or chaos it might bring. They emphasize the importance of friendships in their 30s, balancing family life, and maintaining personal connections amidst life's unpredictability.

2. Alessandra's Personal Story

Alessandra, a guest on the episode, shares her tumultuous experience with a long-time friend, referred to as "Helen" to maintain privacy. She recounts the falling out that occurred years ago and the ensuing complications when Helen chose to go public with the fallout rather than addressing it privately.

Alessandra [02:11]: "Helen and I go way back. We had a falling out over something that occurred years ago. Instead of coming to me and having a conversation, she decided to go public and talk about it, which made reconciliation impossible."

Alessandra expresses her frustration with Helen's decision to air their personal issues on a public platform, highlighting how it complicates any chances of mending the relationship.

3. The Impact of Public vs. Private Disclosures

The conversation pivots to the broader implications of discussing personal conflicts publicly. Alessandra shares her concerns about how public discussions can create a "revolving door of rumors," exacerbating misunderstandings and fueling public perception issues.

Alessandra [04:47]: "If someone goes public about our fallout, I will never reconcile. It perpetuates rumors and creates new avenues for people to hate me."

Becky and Kale offer their perspectives on the matter, emphasizing the importance of addressing issues directly and the challenges that come when personal matters become public.

4. Perspectives from Becky and Kale

Becky empathizes with Alessandra's predicament, acknowledging the complexity of reconciling after such public disputes.

Becky [05:02]: "There are so many different layers to this. If this person didn't matter to you, you wouldn't be having this conversation right now."

Kale adds her thoughts, reflecting on her own limited experience with rekindling friendships but emphasizing the value of closure and honest communication.

Kale [13:17]: "I think it might be good for you both to just have that closure, even if it doesn't end with a friendship. It heals internal wounds."

5. Healing and Moving Forward

As the discussion unfolds, the hosts explore the emotional toll of unresolved conflicts and the potential for healing through closure, even without resuming the friendship. Becky shares her own experiences of rekindling friendships that brought significant healing to her life.

Becky [16:29]: "I've rekindled two friendships that have healed so much of my heart. One conversation can lift a tremendous weight off your shoulders."

Alessandra contemplates the possibility of seeking closure without necessarily reviving the friendship, expressing her desire for a public apology but choosing to remain firm in her decision to not rekindle the relationship.

Alessandra [14:44]: "I want a public apology for what that person did to me. And I also want to remain not friends. That's what I want."

6. Managing Public Perception and Personal Boundaries

The conversation shifts towards managing public perception and maintaining personal boundaries in the face of public scrutiny. Alessandra highlights how public fallouts can set a concerning precedent for future interactions.

Alessandra [25:35]: "Will it set the tone for others, thinking they can go public and still be friends afterward? That's a concern."

Becky and Kale discuss the importance of differentiating personal experiences and avoiding generalizations, advocating for understanding each person's unique situation.

Becky [34:42]: "People need to recognize the uniqueness of each situation. Not every fallout is the same, and public perceptions can be misleading."

7. Advice for Listeners

Towards the end of the episode, Kail, Becky, and Alessandra offer valuable advice to listeners grappling with similar friendship dilemmas. They emphasize the importance of direct communication, setting clear boundaries, and prioritizing personal well-being over public opinions.

Becky [36:20]: "It's a very open and honest conversation about something that's very, very serious. Let us know your stories, and let's talk about it."

8. Closing Thoughts

In the concluding segments, the hosts reiterate the significance of thoughtful decision-making when it comes to rekindling friendships. They encourage listeners to seek closure in ways that prioritize their mental and emotional health, even if it means maintaining distance from certain individuals.

Kale [34:06]: "If you think something through, the second thought reflects your true desire. Trust your instincts on what you want to do."

Notable Quotes

• Alessandra [02:11]: "Helen and I go way back. We had a falling out over something that occurred years ago. Instead of coming to me and having a conversation, she decided to go public and talk about it, which made reconciliation impossible."

• Becky [05:02]: "There are so many different layers to this. If this person didn't matter to you, you wouldn't be having this conversation right now."

• Becky [16:29]: "I've rekindled two friendships that have healed so much of my heart. One conversation can lift a tremendous weight off your shoulders."

• Alessandra [14:44]: "I want a public apology for what that person did to me. And I also want to remain not friends. That's what I want."

• Kale [34:06]: "If you think something through, the second thought reflects your true desire. Trust your instincts on what you want to do."

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Conclusion

This episode of Karma & Chaos provides a nuanced exploration of the challenges and considerations involved in rekindling friendships after a fallout. Through Alessandra's personal story and the insightful contributions of Becky and Kale, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the emotional complexities and practical implications of such decisions. The hosts adeptly balance personal vulnerability with actionable advice, making this episode a must-listen for anyone seeking guidance on managing and mending their personal relationships amidst the chaos of life.

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For more engaging discussions and relatable insights into modern adulthood, subscribe to Karma & Chaos on PodcastOne and join Kail and Becky every Tuesday for a dose of realness and humor.

Transcript

[Kale]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Becky]

Good evening.

[Alessandra]

Don't you want to start with, like, good morning? Because I do feel like everyone listens in the car.

[Becky]

They do. Good morning, everyone. Happy Tuesday, or whenever it is that you're listening to this podcast. Welcome back.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, welcome back. Welcome, everyone.

[Becky]

Kayl and I aren't in our normal locations. Neither of us are in our normal location.

[Alessandra]

And Alessandra is also not in her normal location. No. My office is being worked on. I have, like, a surround sound system throughout the house. So, like, if we played music or something, it goes through the whole house, but that's also connected to our security system and our WI fi. So it's in my office, and I didn't want to record this in front of the guys that are doing that. So outside of that, she's in her bedroom.

[Kale]

So you guys get a thank you for.

[Alessandra]

Because I didn't know where I was going with that. Thank you so much.

[Becky]

You're welcome. So you guys get a glimpse into what it's like in Kale's bedroom. So there you go. I'm at Natasha's house. Natasha and Alcides in North Bergen, New Jersey, with Leah. They're all hanging out. I came here because I am going to. Dan is getting his tattoo today, and I'm gonna go meet him there.

[Alessandra]

Dan's getting who don't remember or didn't listen to the episode.

[Becky]

Yeah, sorry.

[Alessandra]

Got a tattoo on her forearm for her late friend that passed away, and she rekindled a friendship with Dan. And Dan is also going to get a tattoo for in memory of.

[Becky]

Yeah, he's getting the exact same thing.

[Alessandra]

I love that. And it's a really good tattoo. I think you picked a really good artist for it too.

[Becky]

Amazing. Shout out. Speaking of rekindling some friendship.

[Alessandra]

Speaking of rekindling friendships, I asked Alessandra to come prepared for commentary today because I do have some mixed feelings on rekindling a friendship. And for a little bit of backstory, I had a friend that I fell out with, and for all intents and purposes, we'll call this friend Michelle. We'll call this friend. We won't call. We won't call her Michelle. We'll call her. Because I actually have a friend named Michelle, and I don't want it to be twisted. We'll call this friend Helen. So I don't want anyone to be upset. You know what I mean?

[Becky]

Yeah. Helen's A great name.

[Alessandra]

Helen is a great name. So we'll call this friend Helen. And Helen and I go way back. I've known Helen for more than half of my life, and we had a falling out over something that occurred years ago. And then I had talked about it anonymously on Coffee Combo's podcast, told the story, just disagreement. It was. It was just that we weren't aligned. I did not think that I was talking shit, was just more so like, expressing, like, how it all went. And when Helen heard this, instead of coming to me and having a conversation with me about it, decided to just go public and announce that it was her and talk about it. And I just. I live in a very weird situation where a lot the way that I make money is through my personal life. And that is the weird nuance, I guess, is the right word for it. I make money by being myself. And so part of that comes with telling and talking about some aspects of my personal life on my podcast, as you guys know. So I want you guys to keep that in mind and don't come to me and say, well, you should have never talked about it on a public forum. I agree, but I also disagree. So that being said, and I also spoke about it anonymously, and nobody would have guessed who it was. Like, truly did not give any identifying information. Becky also knows this friend and has hung out with this friend. And truly, we have hung out all together, and it's, you know, it was fine. I think the difference in rekindling this friendship specifically is that when Becky and I fell out or when Bone and I fell out, neither one of them ever went public and said things and created, you know, their own version of events. I don't really know how to word it. Sterling and I fell out for, you know, a year. She never went publicly and said things about me. And so I'm having a hard time now that this friend has reached out on more than one occasion in more than one way to potentially rekindle the friendship. And I just don't know how to feel or what to do about it because I've always said, if you go public about our fallout, I will never reconcile.

[Kale]

I.

[Becky]

Not to dismiss what you just said, but you were just bouncing around like a kangaroo because you were being very active in your theatrics and your camera was going like this the whole time. So that was just fun.

[Alessandra]

Anyway, I'm going to give someone, like, I hope nobody has epilepsy, because, yeah.

[Becky]

I think that there are so many different layers to this. The one most Important for me is that there is. If this person didn't matter to you, and you can say they do not, you wouldn't be having this conversation right now. It would have just. You know what I mean? And so I think that bringing it up and talking through it is something that's needed because there's obviously some unhealed feelings from it. And I didn't realize. I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not just going to take your side on this. I didn't realize that you talked about it on your podcast because not saying that I would have done anything differently in our scenario, but if you talked, and even if you didn't say my name or whatever, if you would have talked about us, I would have felt obligated to also maybe speak. I don't know if I would have, but I probably would have felt some type of way to speak my truth as well. I don't. I think that there's a difference between talking publicly and selling out a story. So, like, I don't know if there was any, like, monetary, like, involved, but I, from my perspective, I think it was. This was being said about me. So I want to tell my truth as well. Not that it's. Right, right. Like, it's still fud up. Like, it's still. Things shouldn't have been said in that. In that manner. So I think that this situation is a little bit different than, let's say if someone we both know came forward who literally just sold, like, sold you out to the tabloids right away. Right.

[Alessandra]

See, for me, the conversation that came up on coffee combos about this scenario, it was in relation to that conversation. So it's not like, yeah, into coffee combos and just started. It was like in. That was like. And it wasn't talking. It was literally just explaining, like.

[Becky]

I know.

[Alessandra]

So I think that's different. But whether. Whether this person made money off of it or not, you went to outlets, like, for act. I know for a fact because I saw. I saw the articles. So you went to outlets whether you talk for free or you got. As a matter of fact, I would rather someone get paid to talk because then at least I know. No, I'm being dead serious. I know you're being serious, like, talking shit for free. You're even worse to me than you talking because at least I know that that was going to help you out in some way. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I is where I'm draw the. I also draw the line at the fact that, like, if that was to happen.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

With you and me, you would come me first before you told your story.

[Becky]

Yeah, for sure.

[Alessandra]

And that never happened. So I had no idea that this person was upset about what I said. You know, I recently, like, very recently had a situation with a friend where she knew that I talked about her on the podcast, and she came directly to me and was like, I know this is about me. And I understood and I took accountability. I had it removed immediately. I, you know, I. I can take accountability, but I can't know that it bothered you or upset you. If you don't tell me that you're.

[Becky]

There's so many valid areas of your feelings, like being hurt and the situation just bringing up a lot of unhealed feelings. I think we should recognize that you also aren't who you were when this all happened. So things would have played out quite differently, I think, if it happened nowadays, like you just said, someone came to you and you took accountability for it. It's interesting because. Right. A lot of people that are listening and that are going to have some type of feelings about this aren't going to be able to relate in a way that is understanding to your unique situation. Because a lot of us are in these situations. They're just not public. Right. Like, when me and Dan had a falling out, the both of us went our separate ways and talked so much shit about each other and stuff that made no sense, like finding the littlest things because the only power that we had was in our voice to make someone else look at them differently. And so, like, about me, when.

[Alessandra]

When we weren't. Yeah, you literally said that about us, too. You said, I just want you to know I talk shit about you to this person. Okay. And I understand that. But, yeah, of you, the two people that you like, the one person that you told me you talk shit with, he also didn't go public. So to me, I'm like, if he ever reached out to me, that person, I would. I would rekindle that friendship. Because I understand that, like, you had frustrations with me, he had frustration with me, and I, to my knowledge, he never went public. And I respect him for that. And I feel like that is a part of human nature and a human. The human experience is. And even in the let them theory, they talk about. Everyone can have annoyances and frustrations and things with people they love and still love that person, no matter if they're annoyed with them or if they're. There's a scenario. And so I guess what I'm Trying to get at here in this specific situation is for anyone listening that might have feedback. One, please, before you come at me and say, well, you talked about it on your podcast, please understand the uniqueness, like Becky said, of this specific situation where when I got on a podcast with my friend, which is also another layer to this, is that I do business with my friends. And yes, it is public, which is why I kept this person's name anonymous in the story that I was telling. But that friend is a voice of reason for me and it applied to that realm of conversation. So I don't want it to be like, I got on this podcast and like, was talking shit. That's not what it was. But I do think that it was. So I didn't even know that this person was upset until they got on the Internet and started talking about it. We got into it privately, so this person knew I was upset about it. It wasn't like this person heard about it for the first time on the podcast. Right. Like, we had words privately and then I talked about it on a podcast. So just keep in mind, and I'm not saying I'm right, right? Like, I'm not saying it was the right thing to do. I was just, you have to keep in mind that my personal life is my job also. So talking about it was very natural and something that was going to be done probably regardless, if that makes sense. I'm so excited that we got to talk about Baby backs on this episode because we actually have a sponsor called Haya. I'm obsessed with. Hi. They're vitamins that come directly to your door and you can decorate the little jars. And I'm really excited for Bex to have these in the future. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. They're filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy junk that growing kids should never eat. And that's why Haya was created. The pediatrician approved superpower chewable vitamin. My kids love them. I love to watch them when they get the little jars to decorate. And these are formulated with the help of nutritional experts. Haya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies, then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D, B, 12C, zinc, folate and many others to help support immunity, energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones and more. And the good news is these are non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gluten free, nut free, and everything else you can imagine.

[Becky]

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[Alessandra]

Alessandra, feel free to jump in here.

[Kale]

Okay, so I just think like, I mean, I don't really, I don't know the situation behind the, the person you're talking about because I think this was before my time.

[Alessandra]

Maybe it was during your time, but different podcast.

[Kale]

Okay. Okay. So I just, I think that it's so hard because I personally don't have experience with rekindling a friendship after a fallout. Like, I've rekindled friendships from like high school into adulthood. When we moved back home from college, we met up at like a college, like at our local bar. And we would see each other all the time and we became friends again, close friends. But I don't personally have experience rekindling friendships. I am like a very. We've talked about this before. Like when I make a decision to remove someone from my life, it's pretty finite because if I do it, it's.

[Alessandra]

It's pretty severe.

[Kale]

It takes a lot for me to do that. And I think you're similar in that way too because the way that you, the way that you have friendships is familial and that's the way that I have friendships too. Like, you don't just have friendships that are like surface level. If someone's your friend, they're your family.

[Alessandra]

That's how it is.

[Kale]

I feel like it's like a very deep level of like penetrative hurt that happens when someone like that betrays you. So I completely understand your hesitation and for me, like, if I put myself in your shoes, I think if you were considering potentially even having, like, a conversation with this person so you guys could. Even if it doesn't end up with you guys having, like, a friendship the way that you did, or even a friendship, though, like, at all, I think it might be good for you both to just have that, like, closure, because I think they're. Like Becky said in the beginning, I don't think that if there wasn't a part of you that wanted you, you would even be considering it.

[Alessandra]

No, but hear me out on that, though.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

I want a public apology for what that person did to me. And I also want to remain not friends. That's what I want. And that's in a perfect world. So I will apologize on my own behalf for speaking about something publicly. And if I would have known that that was going to be upsetting, I just thought. Because again, let me reiterate for those listening, I don't want anything twisted here. We fought behind the scenes about said argument. So it's not like this person heard the podcast for the first time and was like, she's talking shit about me. This was. That actually happened that we discussed. Right. So if this person did not go public, this would not. This would not be a conversation. I would be friends with this person again. So it's the fact that you perpetuated this revolving door of rumors that Kale is always the problem, and you exacerbated it. You created new hate avenue people, new avenues for people to hate me. And so in that way, like, those people that were like, oh, yeah, Kale's the problem, a lot of those people already hated me, but now there's no coming back for them. Like, whereas if this didn't happen, maybe they would have grown to like me at some point or maybe not hated me as much or maybe stop being a troll towards me, and you just perpetuated that even further and later on involved my kids in it. Yeah, that's, you know, like, I will say that, you know, when it comes to. So you said that you'll typically just, like, cut people off. Really. Like, it's like a finite. Yeah. Decision.

[Becky]

That's how. I mean, that's how I am as well with cutting people off, but I'm also on the other fence of it. Like, I've rekindled two friendships that have, like, healed so much of my heart. And, like, I know what, like, my eyes are getting wet. Like, I know what, like, that can do.

[Alessandra]

Your eyes are getting wet instead of Like, I'm about to cry, My eyes are getting wet.

[Becky]

Yeah. But like I just, I've had that healing for me and like when me and Dan first started making that like transition, it wasn't a healed and then we were friends. It took another year or two before we actually started having a friendship. But that one conversation, I went home and my. The weight of everything was gone. Like I no longer had it to hate this person I created in my mind because of the hurt that he caused. Like, same thing for you, right? One singular conversation that we had healed this weight that I had to carry. Like regardless of where our friendship or our relationship went, it just healed so much inside me of like not having to carry that anymore. Not having to worry about what their saying about me. Just because we've created this neutral ground, right? Like not for nothing like the way that they messaged, saying it was in a place of reconciliation, right. It was like I love and care for you still. Like, I like just know that, right? So it's not coming from. I don't like it's coming from a place of healing, right? Like, it's not coming from a place of anything other than I think that there's sorrow, right. I feel bad for what I did. I feel bad for the things that I did when we weren't friends too. So like talking like, they're also carrying weight from that.

[Alessandra]

And so I don't carry weight from this specifically because outside of talking about it on a podcast, I never did that person wrong ever in my whole life and never talk about that person ever in my whole life. For me.

[Becky]

No, I not. Wait, like that Kale.

[Alessandra]

Oh, oh.

[Becky]

Like, like this weight of a lost friendship, right? Like, wait, like that, that was a regard. Regardless of how you feel now, that was like a true friend to you.

[Alessandra]

I don't. Don't agree.

[Becky]

That's okay. I mean that's like they don't have.

[Alessandra]

I think that it's very. It was very a self serving friendship and it was everything that that person could get from me. I never did that person wrong. And specifically that person never did them wrong. And I was shocked by how this was handled because something wrong in the friendship. Tell me that. I can't say that at that time I would have been in a place to accept it and take and acknowledge it. But that's why I'm saying right here, right now, like I acknowledge why that would be upsetting to hear it on a podcast, right? Like yeah, situation. Nobody else KN the fuck it was. Or like maybe a Small group of people knew who it was, but I wasn't talking shit about it. In a way that was like, fudge this person, right? Like, we already had the word. But I guess for me, it's like the. The added layer of using my platform against me and going public about it is something that I cannot recover from, the same way that I can acknowledge. And I've never in my whole life talked about this publicly. But, like, it sort of reminds me of the situation with Natalie, right? Like, I can acknowledge that that scenario right there, when there was an issue, I should have gone directly to her and said, but I, like, not in that place yet. And so naturally, she did what she did, I did what I did, and now there's no repairing it, right? So if I would have just walked right up to her and told her, this is why I'm upset, it could have been salvageable. Same thing for Helen, right? Like, Helen, you know, could have came right directly to me. But now you publicly ruined it. And I'll never go back to it. The text message that Becky said in regards to all of this was. Can I read it?

[Becky]

Yeah. I don't even know what I said you said.

[Alessandra]

I said to Becky, I think this person saw me. And you come back from our meaning, me and Becky. And you never went public. And Becky said it could not be worth the trouble of putting any thought into. But if there is any healing that could come from it, maybe an apology, what's the worst can happen? I don't care what you do. I just care about you being okay. So you guys are both equal. Like, both of y'all are saying that I should talk to this person or.

[Kale]

What I do think, like. Like, I get that. And, like, just from the. Like, we've been around each other, you and I, for almost four years now, and I've watched you, you know, go through these, like, different relationships.

[Becky]

Where did it get people? Kale, people are pissed that you eat on this podcast. They're gonna stop.

[Alessandra]

Stop listening myself.

[Becky]

Okay, good.

[Kale]

But it's just so funny. Out of nowhere, you see a pizza coming out of the corner of this.

[Becky]

Two things. I just want to make it known. Two things can be true at once. Someone's intention when they first met you could have been not pure. But it also could be true that they turned into a very caring and nurturing and loving friend.

[Alessandra]

I agree. I do agree, though. I do.

[Becky]

I think so. What happens is you form who you want someone to be based on how you're. When Leah and I broke up, she became the worst person in my head. She became not. Like, literally, like, I could have pinned her in every worst way possible. That she was ugly, that she was not. Like, never had good intention. Like, I. That's what happens when you fall out with people is that you put them into this picture of the worst. And so when you have that, like, you can pinpoint all of those things. I don't, I don't agree. And like, we can have a difference of opinion. Like, right. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, I don't agree that there is a forever ill will of. Of that person and, and what they meant to you and what they mean and what their intentions are. I don't think the intention is to get back in some public eye. I think that there's like a lot of sorrow and a lot of pain held because I was that person. Right? Like, I. Like, I was also that person. And so that's how I feel. That's like, what? Again, whatever you do, and like, I will support you. And it could be nothing. We could talk about it now and it's like, okay, we'll forget about it and not talk about it anymore.

[Kale]

But I remember when you were telling me and one of your co hosts, you were telling us that you were talking to Becky again. And this was like, right. Like, it was the time that you guys started just like, chatting. You weren't like, friends yet. You were just like, testing the waters. You just started and you literally said to us, you were like, like, I don't think we'll be friends again, though. And the second you said that to me, I was like, they're going to be friends. I didn't even know your relationship. I wasn't a part of it previously. But you even saying we're not going to be friends led me to believe you were thinking about it already for sure. And the last year, we are not even a year later. So I. And I'm grateful and happy for that. That and I think, like, again, like, knowing you for the time that I've known you and watch you go through, like, relationships and stuff like that, I. I feel like you're deep hurt when someone betrays you in that way because again, you love familiar, like in a familial way. So it's. It's hard to like, reconstruct that vision of a person once you place them in there. And I think we do what Becky said, which is like, put these people in this box to also, like, try and alleviate us of that love that we have, because love doesn't just disappear even once somebody does you wrong. So you have to put that. You're like your Brian. Your brain just subconsciously does it and wants to put them in this box so that you can hate them and you can move on and you can release that love. And I'm not saying. Saying that what. That what Helen did to you wasn't, you know, diabolical at a point or like, and I really agree, the public thing, you know how I feel about that. Like, I'm not about it. I think that's like, things need to stay between people. But I think also, even though you can't understand it and I can't. I can't understand being that person. But there might have been a level of hurt there that may not have under. Like doesn't make sense to us. But they knew that was a way to hurt you. And the way that they were feeling, they wanted you to feel that way. And that does not. That does not, like, excuse the behavior. But I do believe that's where people. That's where it comes from. And I don't always think it's like, with malicious intent because of course meant to hurt you, but I don't think it came from a point of, like, hatred or thinking you're a horrible person. I think they, you know, were hurting. And even if it doesn't make sense to me or you, that's the way they chose to show their her. And I'm not saying that you need to forgive them. I'm. I don't know, like, the level of. And I don't know that person. But. But I think for yourself, maybe, you know, like, just to release it and the weight of somebody betraying you like that, like Becky. Becky said that's. That's the hard thing, like, to. To live with.

[Alessandra]

I think I'm struggling with one. What does that tell. What is that? How will this impact other people who have gone public about me and our friendship fallout?

[Becky]

I think they're different.

[Alessandra]

Will that set the tone for, oh, I can do her dirty and go public about it, and I can still be friends with her after the fact. That's number one. And then number two is, well, I had a number two. Hold on. It was. No, I really did. It was. Will it set the tone for other people? And then I just want it to be known as well that a lot of the times when people do me dirty like this, they do come back. So when people say that I have a revolving door of friends that I can't keep or I Can't keep a friendship or I'm always the problem. It's like, it's interesting because, yes, I do have a hand in it always. But a lot of the times people come back and can we just agree.

[Becky]

To have a reset? Not with this, like, just in, like, how people look at the revolving doors of friends. Because let's have a. These reset. Like, let's not look at the revolving door of friends that happened in our 20s, because everyone has them. Literally anyone listening right now is not friends who they're like, they might have one or two, but they're not friends with the people. Like, your 20s are a revolving of friends.

[Alessandra]

Yours were just public using that reset as just like an example. Right. Like, I'm thinking of my bridesmaids. Two of my bridesmaids in my wedding with Javi were related to Javi. So they're not in my life in the same way. But did I have a fallout with them? No, Same for. Actually, three of the bridesmaids were related to Javi. And then, you know, I moved away from Gigi. There was a, you know, a fallout there, but that also involved other people that wasn't me and her. Do you know what I mean? So I would agree with that. And I think me having kids and doing sports with them every weekend versus actually, actually, now that you bring that up in the Let them theory book, I was very apprehensive about this because I'm. I'm not really into, like, the cliches and the obvious things that we should all be applying to our lives, but I actually decided to listen to the Let them theory because I wanted to apply it to a very specific aspect of my life. And in that, I found another aspect that I want to apply it to. And she does talk about. And I don't have the exact three examples because I don't have it in front of me. But in chapter 11, she talks about proximity, time, and I want to say effort with friendships and how you see your co workers. Just follow the bouncing ball here, because I'm going to circle back, I hope to. My main point is that you work with your colleagues and you see them the most, and then you see your family and your friends less. And so proximity and time is important when it comes to friendships. And so I say all that to say that, like, we did move from Pennsylvania to Delaware, and then proximity and time matter here and then now I work with my friends who have been friends with me for years and years and years. And so I say all that to say that like again, to Becky's point in the beginning of this episode is that I do have a very unique situation. I cannot be compared to the Chelsea of Teen mom who's had her same friends in South Dakota for 20 years. I cannot be compared to, you know, Macy who has never moved out of Tennessee and has been there and has had her. Like they're comparing me to the other cast members of the show without context.

[Kale]

And I think the, the just because like just out of everything I know and I like for me the way that you are so public. Like I forget about it sometimes. Like until we're in public and I'm like we're gas station and three people just said hi to you.

[Alessandra]

Do you know what I mean?

[Kale]

And I'm like, I just, I genuinely forget. Like, I forget and because I wasn't like around that much. Like you had just ended filming, like right when I came into the fold. I think I was around for filming maybe a year. So it wasn't like a thought in my brain. And I just. Because of the way I came into the situation, like, I just never thought about it.

[Alessandra]

I never.

[Becky]

I just.

[Kale]

It's not something I think about and I put myself in your shoes and there's a lot of things that I personally don't know that how I would deal with. With. But this is one of the bigger ones that it's a repetitive. It's a thing that I hear you say often because it's, it's so the way that people view you and your friendships and your fallouts or that were public are. Is pretty. In my opinion. Every time I hear or see or like anybody talking about it, I'm confused because from what my perspective is exactly what Becky just said. It's a normal situation of how everybody else gets to live their and their lives. But yours was public, public. And so people get to comment on it even though they probably went to something similar. Like if people really sat down and, and thought truth really. And like, and the fallouts that people know about publicly what happened, like genuinely, like I get in. I'm not trying to like negate anybody's feelings in it. But it wasn't this like people. You weren't doing these insane things to people that make you like an evil person. So it's just so mind boggling to me the way that people perceive you and your friendships because I'm on the other end of it and I never understood. I've literally always been so confused from the time that I met you, the public perception of you because it's just not who you are. And it's sad and, and I hate to see you worry about it. It bought. It bothers me, like, deeply that it's something that affects you because it's so, like, it's fucked. It's not who you are. Period, point blank. It's just fucked.

[Alessandra]

Becky, I have to tell you a story. Lindsay and I were talking about smelly feet feet and I brought you up and I was like, actually, Becky will love Lumi deodorant because it's whole body deodorant and you can use it between your toes if you wanted to.

[Becky]

I do have smelly feet, but I did, I did get my box in and it's. It did smell really good. There was like, like a coconut smell.

[Alessandra]

Yes. And I'm telling you right now, you can use the solid stick deodorant sweat control spray deodorant on your feet if you want. And all these products are baking soda free. They're parab free PH balance for safe use below the waist. So if you need to do it on your chub rub, that's a good option. And I struggle with that on a regular basis. So they do have a variety of fresh, bright scents like clean tangerine, lavender, sage or the toasted.

[Becky]

Yeah, the toasted coconut is great.

[Alessandra]

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[Becky]

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[Alessandra]

Well, I think some of the times when I fall out with people, it's like conversation. If we would have had regular conversations in those said friendships where. And I'm Guilty of it too. So I'm not blaming the people that I'm having falling outs with. Right. Like Natalie. I've never spoken on it. If I would have went to her and said, here's where I am concerned. Here are my frustrations and she would have came to me and she said, and here are my frustrations, we could have worked it out. Right. All these fallouts could be prevented. They are very real life issues that French. And you have to work at friendships the same way you have to work in a, at a relationship. Like, you know, if I'm frustrated with Elijah, he has to tell me about it or we're not going to get through it. So the same way you have to do that with a relationship, like, I don't know. I say all that to say. I'll circle back with you guys on an update on what I decide to do, because I truly have no clue on this one.

[Kale]

Yeah. And I think that's fair. I think you sit on it until you know what to do. And if you feel compelled, you do it. Because that's like your. I'm always like, if you think something first, then you. The second thought is really like your true, like what you want to do. And I think immediately upon receiving that message, you would probably probably like this motherfucker.

[Alessandra]

Like, you were probably like, no, because I got a FaceTime call and I literally was like, that person can go fuck themselves.

[Kale]

But yeah, I, and I. And I also get your concern about like people seeing you and Becky rekindling your friendship in a public way and these things and being in you to twofold. Right. People coming out of the woodwork and who don't have the best intentions because some people don't. Some people suck. And you are in a unique perspective and a unique position that people, you do have something that people can gain. And so you do have have to think about those things in a way that other people don't. And I get that. And then also you think, oh, what about the people in my life? They're gonna, they, they're gonna think they can me over and that they're just gonna come back and blah, blah, blah. That's fair. That's really fair. But I think that the people you are around are not like that. Like, I think you've done a really good job of allowing the people that deserve the space and the energy in your life. Life to have it and the people who don't to just fall off naturally. And I think that's like Becky said what the. What you do when you're to be a human being, to get to this age. That's how it has to happen.

[Alessandra]

Went on the profile so I can see the Instagram. I wanted. I wanted to go look at their Instagram.

[Kale]

But I do think that, you know, I think also y'all. Y'all let know. Let Kale know what you think you would do in that situation. I. I'm thinking.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, keep in mind all of the things, because if this was about me.

[Becky]

A year ago, be like, don't do it. And I'm just saying.

[Alessandra]

Oh, you're saying don't do it.

[Becky]

No, no, no. I'm. I'm saying that people would have told you not to do it about me. And I. I want you to know that I wouldn't support this if I thought if. In other people, If. If there were other people trying to do this, I would be very clear of my standing on that. I'm not just doing it out of without. Without thought or, like, without context of the people that are involved.

[Alessandra]

No, that's helpful to me because I think you would tell me if you felt like I should.

[Becky]

Like, this is a bad idea. Bad energy, bad.

[Kale]

Like, I just.

[Becky]

I don't.

[Kale]

I don't even think you would have, like, brought it up to her, if you know what I mean. Like, I don't think you would have even. Like, you would have been, like, dismiss it bad. Like, we're not doing that.

[Alessandra]

And also, falling outs that are not necessarily falling. I think that's the other thing, too. When people grow apart doesn't mean that it's a falling out. And I can't stress that enough because a lot of the time, you know, people think of my friendships. When I was married, not only does life evolve, but I was literally married to someone. And when there's a divorce, the way that it ricochets and can destroy friendships in that way, because people feel like they have to pick sides. Like, that's another part of it. When we got divorced, some of those friendships that people are talking about when they talk about my revolving door are they literally split, right? Like, even Becky's ex girlfriend went to Javi, and Becky was my friend. Like. Like, it's. It's very different. I don't know. So I'll let you guys know. I'll circle back. I hope that nobody tries to play the guessing game here, because that's not what it.

[Becky]

It's not worth it. Yeah, it's not.

[Kale]

In general, we need to stop doing that. Like, as a psa, we love Y'all. But, like, that does more harm than.

[Becky]

Yeah. And it's not even like we need. It's not even like there needs to be, like, a public, like, back and forth of this either. Like, people, like, it's like, this is a very open and honest conversation about, like, something that's very, very serious. Right. Like, it's a very, like, close to home thing.

[Kale]

And we're talking.

[Alessandra]

It's like, it's confusing because they're like, then don't talk about it. And it's like, no, I want your input, but I don't need you to go run to the person you think it's about.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

To them. I don't want you guys to come to me and say, is it this person? Because at the end of the day, that's not what this is about. I want your input. I want to know if someone else has experienced this. I want to know if you know, what you guys think, whether you know who it is or not. Keep it to yourself and just let me know what you think from there.

[Kale]

It's.

[Alessandra]

It's. It. You have to understand how nuanced this is and how unique it is. Because I am in the public eye. I want to give you guys information to my personal life, but not in a way that's like, damage. I don't know. I don't know where that threshold is either.

[Becky]

Yeah, I think it's. I'm interested to see what people's experiences are. And obviously, everything is going to be so different. We've talked about friendships and everything in the past, but it's just. It's. I think that this. It's just such a real thing. Right? Like, all of the emotions that come around, having people leave your life that were just so important, having people come back in your life, that can heal a little bit. And then, you know, it's funny you bring up your wedding because Lee and I chose to not have anyone in our wedding party. And I think that there was just multitudes of reasons behind that one being. I feel like I have a lot of people who mean a lot to me that deserve to be there. And so I didn't want to have to limit that down. And also, I've seen so many people have wedding parties that they. They just don't, like, aren't friends with people anymore. And I would hate to, like, see pictures of my wedding and be like, that person ruins this entire picture.

[Alessandra]

No, truly. That's why I always said if I get married again, I would not have bridesmaids. I Would not have a bridal party at all. Yeah, just be my kids. Pick a side. You want to be on Elijah's side or my side?

[Becky]

Wait, whose side do you think they would all pick?

[Alessandra]

They already told me.

[Becky]

Well, spill it.

[Alessandra]

They. Everyone but Lux said they would be on Elijah's side.

[Becky]

No way. Even Elliot?

[Alessandra]

Yes. Looked me dead in my face and said he would stand on Elijah's side.

[Becky]

I mean, goes to show and tell a lot about Elijah, but that's. That's very surprising to me.

[Alessandra]

Really?

[Becky]

Yeah. I don't know why.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, Lux said he would be on my side. Actually, I think Creed, when we. We asked twice. Twice. I think Creed flip flopped. I think he was like, one day he want to be on Elijah's side, one day you want to be on mine. But Isaac and Lincoln both said they were going to be on Elijah's side. I said, great, then I'm getting all the babies. Then you can put all the babies in a wagon right next to me because somebody's got to stand on my side.

[Becky]

Are you guys gonna have a wedding?

[Alessandra]

We'll probably do a micro wedding.

[Becky]

I just like, I won't be mad if I'm not invited because obviously you're not gonna invite anyone. But like, I would be happy to be in like, and like, maybe not at the wedding, but maybe be in the same town. So I could like go to dinner or celebrate or something.

[Alessandra]

I would love. In a perfect world, I would do like a private ceremony with nobody but our kids and me parents. And then. And by our kids, I mean all, all seven of them. And then I would like to like rent out a place for dinner. Not like a huge reception like my wedding, but like, like my closest people and rent out a place and everybody eats and it's just like actually soft saw on Tick Tock. This girl, she was like having an unconventional non traditional wedding and she was like, I refuse to pay for these really expensive plates. And so she ordered pizza for her wedding venue. If I can find it, I'll. I'll post it or send it to you. But I thought that was because you want to celebrate with your friends that people aren't going to remember the food. People don't care about.

[Becky]

Most of the time. Food at wedding is trash.

[Alessandra]

Honestly though, my wedding, they were. It was good.

[Becky]

I don't remember.

[Alessandra]

It was filet mignon and.

[Becky]

Or it probably wasn't that good.

[Alessandra]

It was. It was. I was very good.

[Becky]

I've been to a lot of weddings. Like a lot. Not all of them are bad. But one wedding. Kate and Sarah. Their wedding. Their food was so good. It was the cocktail hour food that just like really set it above. They had a Mac and cheese bar.

[Alessandra]

Oh that's awesome.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

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[Becky]

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[Alessandra]

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[Becky]

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[Alessandra]

Did you love it?

[Becky]

I did love it well.

[Alessandra]

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[Kale]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns.

[Alessandra]

McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Becky]

I do wanna. There's a topic on my list. I have so many topics. We're gonna have to record 20 podcasts but this podcast is relative to the conversation or this question. So people were really upset with us around and wanted more clarification around us choosing our partner over our kids. And who. Who would we save from a burning building? I don't know if we. We. If you did it intentionally because there wasn't a place to put them above. I don't think in that scenario. But I don't have a kid yet so I don't know the love for a child. I want to set that there. But I still believe that I would pick my partner over my child because I feel like I like I just love Lilia so much. Like how do you not like that's like my person so so like.

[Alessandra]

And I get that because you guys are having a baby together. So at the end of the day, if something were to happen to Leah, you and Leah cannot then turn around and create another baby. So I'm not saying that the life of that baby is not important but together if she is not here, can never make that baby again. I say all that to say that my situation is also unique. And I would save Elijah over our children together, but I would save Isaac, Lincoln, Lux and Creed before I saved Elijah.

[Becky]

That's wild. Like that's wild to have to like not like that like answer is wild. Like I didn't even think have to think about that so.

[Alessandra]

Because there's never going to be another chance to create an Isaac. There's never. Not, not that. Oh recreating it like I don't want to upset anyone. Trigger warning if this would upset anyone because obviously we hope to never.

[Becky]

I think you put trigger warnings before something.

[Alessandra]

Well, well. So I obviously don't want to procreate with Joe again. But like Isaac is it was one and done and that could never and like Other baby would replace him. But, like, yeah, let's not, like, dig into semantics here. But it's like, truly, I would save Isaac, Lincoln, Lux, Creed before I save Elijah, but I would save Elijah before I would save our babies together. Because at the end of the day, I cannot. But you know what? I also am, like, would I save him before our babies together? Like, because their babies are here. Like, I can see those babies.

[Becky]

I think we're gonna have to revisit this. And four. Oh, my God. Can't think about it in a couple months from now.

[Alessandra]

I just. Don't I say that.

[Becky]

But, like, Alessandra, what would you do?

[Kale]

I thought about this, like, in two ways, right? So, like, if I were. If it was like I was about to. I was giving birth, and the doctor was like, you can save your wife or you can save the baby. I told Billy, you better save me. Especially if we have other kids, because, like, I have to be here for them. Like, I. Like, you're not taking me away from my kids. Like, they. They need their mom. And. But, like, if. Like, when they're here, existing.

[Alessandra]

That's the thing. It's like, I've only ever thought about this in the context of childbirth. Yes. I've never thought about this in a context where it's like, you know, my. My. My Rio and The twins are 1 and 2 years old. Like, they're existing. They have personalities. They're here. They're like, I know them. So I've never thought about it in that context. So if we're talking about it in.

[Becky]

That way, your age, too. Your age matters. I'd want to be saved now, but if I'm 70 years old, you better save my kid.

[Kale]

Like, Yeah, I also. Like, I don't know. I would. Like, if I had to choose between me or my kid surviving, I would choose my kid, like, living. So I would. My partner would do the same, I think. Like, I would lay my life down for my child. I'd lay my life down for sure. The children I have in my life.

[Alessandra]

Life.

[Kale]

So, like, if I feel that way, then I feel like my partner would, too, and vice versa. I don't know. I think. I think if my kids. Because I just know the way I love the children in my life, and I used to nanny and, like, that's not the same as being a mom. But I'm telling you, like, I could take a kid off the street, and they'd be my child, and there would be no difference from if I birthed them or not. Like, that would be my baby. And I think I would save the kids. Like I. And I love Billy. Sorry, but I think I. I would.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, I'm. This question is very. It's hard. Hard. I have answered in the context of giving birth, but like, a burning building. My baby. I'm grabbing all real vers and valley in one arm and. Elijah, I apologize in advance. That's.

[Becky]

I don't think that I'm equipped to answer this question yet. I don't have yet.

[Kale]

I think we should revisit it in a couple months, because I. I have.

[Becky]

A feeling, hopefully we're still friends.

[Alessandra]

Stop. Let me ask Elijah who he would save. And out of a burning building real quick.

[Becky]

Is it gonna piss you off, though, if he doesn't pick you?

[Alessandra]

The next thing is kill. Kill and Elijah break up over who they would save in a burning building.

[Becky]

Oh, you're calling him.

[Alessandra]

Hey, if I was in a burning building with Rio Versa Valley, who would you save first? Because, like, don't think about it in, like, a child birth from childbirth point of view, right? Because. Because child birth, I would say, save me, but what about a burning building?

[Becky]

I need more details about the building.

[Alessandra]

Like, it's burning down, and you're. You have.

[Becky]

You can only save one person.

[Alessandra]

You can only save.

[Kale]

He's military, he's methodical. He's like, I need more details. What's the structure? Because I could probably save you all. Because what he's thinking. That's what he's thinking.

[Alessandra]

He's like, push out the window, grab the babies.

[Becky]

You can. No, you can only save one person. Who is it?

[Alessandra]

You could only scoop up all the babies or me. That's it.

[Becky]

I can make a way, find a way to y'all.

[Alessandra]

Y'all. Look, if I only can say one.

[Becky]

Probably would be nobody.

[Alessandra]

I probably just join you. Oh, my God. That is so sinister and so morbid. Oh, my God. If we would all die, you wouldn't even try to save anybody.

[Becky]

I mean, fair. That's such a valid answer.

[Alessandra]

All right, love you. Bye.

[Becky]

That's such a valid answer.

[Kale]

He said, I can't live my life without either of y'all. So we're going. And you're not living without me either.

[Alessandra]

Is what he said.

[Kale]

He said we're going together. Okay. He didn't even say, like, I'll save the kids, and then we'll both. You and I will both stay together.

[Alessandra]

He said.

[Kale]

No, we're all.

[Alessandra]

We're all. We're all.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Jesus.

[Becky]

That's funny speaking. I. From My eyes being wet this episode I had to add drop down option for our, our karma and chaos supporters because they make me cry a lot with things that they say. So I had to add it as a filter on there.

[Alessandra]

I think you need to post your post a pic of your the times that your eyes are wet. Your your spreadsheet. I think you should post it.

[Becky]

I I well on our karma and chaos tik tok that we finally have. So if you're not following us us please go do so so I don't get fired.

[Alessandra]

Instagram not TikTok.

[Becky]

Well, we have a tick tock too Instagram. I guess I need to get better at that. I need to ask you a question. So Alessandra, I want your opinion on this too.

[Kale]

I'm here I A lot of people.

[Becky]

On the Internet and even friends of mine that I'm not really friends with like acquaintances wouldn't have invited them to like a wedding or you know, know event. Everyone's been asking for my registry list and I feel really guilty. So I haven't given it to anyone. So I feel like, because like why do I put, why would I put someone that I don't know in that position to get me something? Because I'm like, we're fine. Like, we're like we'll figure it out. We have everything covered. If no one bought us anything, we would be able to do it, right? Like we're fine. Is that like what would you do in that situation? Like would you share it or would you not share it if someone's asking. I just feel like I don't want people to get the wrong idea of me of like me trying to like get things from people because it's just not. But like, I also would want to buy something for someone if I had some type of connection to them or you know, that's.

[Kale]

I was going to say like I. One of my love languages is gift giving and my mom's is too. So I grew up with someone who nurtures in like a gift giving way. And I think that you have to take into consideration how much you give people the listeners and followers in the sense of like calmness and peace and understanding and all these things that they say. You know, there's a lot, lot of understanding and there's a relationship and it might not feel as intense between you and that person when they're talking, but for them a lot. Like, for a lot of people, you guys are, you know, their friends. They're you are their, you know, comfort. And so if you think about it that way. They're trying to reciprocate that in some way. I think it's sweet, but I get your hesitation of, like, you don't want people to think the wrong way. But I hope that just from listening to the podcast and they see, like, how you were crying during your P.O. box unboxing. Like, you're so appreciative, and it fills you with joy because it makes. Makes you feel good. The way that you make them feel. It's like a reciprocal energy. And I think if you think about it in that way, I think I would do it.

[Alessandra]

Yeah.

[Kale]

And some people in my DMs, like, on my Instagram, I.

[Alessandra]

They're a regular.

[Kale]

Like, they're writers. They're in there all the time. And, like, there's some people that I would 100% understand why they'd want to do you know what I mean? So I think I would also would.

[Alessandra]

And this is coming from someone who I never did. I never posted. I never even made a registry or had baby showers except for one and a half. So I just felt the same way as you. But oddly enough, you being in that same sort of position, I think it's fine also. I mean, people even ask me for a P.O. box. I don't have one anymore, but, yeah.

[Becky]

People are about to start sending me me shit to give to you. Someone asked. Someone asked your crew neck size to. I think it was Heather, actually.

[Kale]

I don't if it was Heather. Like, Heather is someone who you have, like, a connection with and she asked you for your register. You probably would have given it, you know, I don't know.

[Becky]

I would. Like, I'm trying to work through mentally. Like, I just feel. Just because money is such a weird thing, right? Like, I have an idea.

[Alessandra]

I haven't because my book club girlies, the turtle girlies, told me to do this, and it made me feel weird to do it. But they have. So, like, we have storefronts, right? For Amazon Storefront people ask for links. I'll just call them my friends, because that's really what they are. They were like, make a public wish list for the books that you want. And the way that I justified it in my head was, okay, I'm gonna do this because they told me to, but it's actually for Elijah, because Elijah keeps buying me books that I don't already. That I already have a public wish list. What if you made, like, a. Like attaching it to your storefront and so it's like, public anyway. Okay, that's fine.

[Kale]

I get the money thing because money is a weird thing. But I also, like, for me, I've had to heal my relationship with money. And I view it as energy.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Like, it's, you know, you're giving energy out, you're taking it back, and. And things like that.

[Becky]

And I guess, like, with the whole baby thing, too, like, I'm. I'm convincing myself here, is that. That I want everyone that's listening to be involved in this pregnancy just as much as I am. Because I think that it just brings, like, I'm bringing life into the world. It brings light into people's lives, and so it gives them the opportunity to have. To feel like they kind of have a piece of that. So, you know, when he is here, say that they bought just something simple, like a bottle or whatever it is, and they see me posting that, they feel connected to, like, his life coming, like, and his upbringing, which is kind of cute to think of about, that is. But I just don't ever want to feel perceived in a way of, like, using this platform for anything other than, you know, what my intentions are of just creating that community aspect. But.

[Kale]

Okay, you again. I hope everybody, anybody who listens to this regularly is in the Facebook group. Here's the way that you talk about the people who you connect with and how important it is in community and just the little time that I've known you and how you are and just your friendships, like, that's what you bring to the world. Like, that is your light into the world. And I think that people want to share it back with you, and I think that's so beautiful. And I think maybe shifting it into the perspective of, like, they're trying to share their gratitude and stuff and just, like, allow you to, like, sink that in and, like, drink it up, because that's really sweet. That's, like, a really good feeling.

[Becky]

And maybe I can be intentional with things that, like, you don't really save for the next baby, but, like, you want to donate. Maybe I can be intentional in that way with things that I get and, you know, put, like, offer it to people, like, listeners that might need those types of things. So maybe that's a way that I can justify it, too.

[Alessandra]

Frida Mom. Frida baby. Frida Mom. It's like this product. It's like a brand. They sent me so much stuff. I mean, it was for the twins, but I ended up, like, I posted about it, and then I turned around and a mom. I didn't announce it. I don't Think maybe the freedom mom.

[Kale]

Stuff I might have said, like, I'm.

[Alessandra]

Gonna give this away. I ended up sending it to a mom that follows me because I was like, at the end of the day, day, like, you know, I do get a lot of stuff here and I think that's, you know, something that a way to give back is like, for sure. Maybe it's the same way, like, I have stuff that's like unused, unopened. I'm going to give it to you. We could always, if you decide that you're not going to use it, we could get. Send it to followers.

[Becky]

Yeah, you know, like, that makes me, I think that alone makes me feel comfortable knowing that I'll be intentional with, like, Right.

[Alessandra]

Like, yeah, you're going to decide very quickly what bottles you're going to stick with. Like, you're going to decide that very quickly. So the bottles that I give you that are unopened, you may decide that this is not the kind that you want to use. We ship them out and send them to people. I'm. I'm never going to have a girl again. I gave pretty much everything I could to Taylor. She's happy.

[Becky]

You mean you're never going to have a child again?

[Alessandra]

Yeah, that's what I mean. This episode is brought to you by Better Help and we talk about therapy all the time. And we can talk about numbers too. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to 250 per session, which adds up quickly. I know because I paid actually more than that. And Better Help. Online therapy you actually have, you're saving an average of up to 50% per session. With Better Help, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you a bit on cost and lots on time. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to take therapy from my car while I'm on hands free because I literally do not have time to like drive somewhere, get to therapy and drive back home or wherever I need to be.

[Becky]

Yeah, we love therapy here. If you aren't going currently and you are even thinking about it, definitely give Better Help a shout out because they can help you find a therapist and it should feel like therapy is accessible. Right. It's not a luxury. With online therapy, you can get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Whatever it is you're going through in life, therapy can help. Your mental health is worth it. And now it's in reach with over.

[Alessandra]

30,000 therapists, better help is the world's Largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient, too, so you guys can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Like I was saying. And you can switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com karma to get 10% off your first first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com karma.

[Becky]

We did talk about, though, the last time we were in person together, which was at the New York City event, which was so much fun to just have some time without recording and just, like, being friends and yapping and enjoying each other. I walked in and I said, kale, I thought about this. How much fun would it be if Rio and Vex started a podcast together?

[Alessandra]

Like, or. Or the twins. I mean, any of them.

[Becky]

Yeah, or like, Bex and Valley started a podcast together.

[Alessandra]

Like, that would be so funny. Like, to see the next generation full circle. Yeah, well, and what's so funny is, like, the tagline for killer network is growing the next generation of killer podcasters. Like, we gotta prep these kids.

[Becky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alessandra]

And then Nepo babies. Podcast babies. Same thing.

[Becky]

Yeah. It's gonna be so much fun.

[Alessandra]

What? We'll keep the money in house because we'll produce it 100, period. So, like, they're paying us to do the work. They're talking on the mic. It's fine. It comes full circle.

[Becky]

They are gonna. We have to start thinking about names for their podcast now, you know?

[Alessandra]

Oh, yeah.

[Becky]

Secure the Instagram handle. Really thinking about their futures.

[Alessandra]

I'm down. I'm so down. Podcast and then the killer sports. I mean, every. All my friends, kids have jobs for life.

[Becky]

Yeah, we're set.

[Alessandra]

We're set.

[Becky]

I wanted to bring this up as well, not relative. Well, kind of relative, because it has to do with babies. Lee and I went, I guess for everyone listening, Leah and I went through ivf. If you don't know that when you go through ivf, you have to go. You have to do a fetal echo test or echo fetal test, where they do a bunch of tests on the baby's heart to make sure it's okay, first and foremost, this place that we went to, I could kiss everyone on the forehead. The reception lady, the person that was doing the ultrasound, the doctor that came in to review our results with us. They were the first people that we had such a beautiful experience with and, like, asked us questions about ourselves before they got into anything else. Like, just made us feel so comfortable, comfortable. It was amazing. And everyone, if you're working, if you're listening and work in healthcare, work on your bedside manners. So that was the first thing. Second thing, two people in that experience told us multiple times, and I feel like I need to tell this to everyone here to not use any type of lotion that has cocoa butter in it on your belly. Cocoa butter contains caffeine, and that caffeine soaks through your skin and will potentially make it to the baby. The doctor said, and I'm going to screw this up. But I tried to write it down. There's a higher likely chance of a, a fetal arrhythmia to the baby's heart if you use cocoa butter on your belly. And that's like a very common thing that people do.

[Alessandra]

So, yeah, I used, I used cocoa butter throughout my entire pregnancies with Isaac and Lincoln. I really did it with the other, ah, maybe Lux too.

[Becky]

It's not a 911 situation, like, oh, my God, there's going to be death involved. It's just a say. Let's just maybe stop doing that. But we were told by two people, like multiple times. So I wanted to bring that here because I know that there's a lot of people that listen that could be, you know, caring or, or have people in their lives that are caring.

[Alessandra]

No, I think that's really important and I would have not done it too, if I would have known.

[Becky]

So thanks for the input.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, I would have. I wish you would have gotten pregnant, I guess, a couple years ago.

[Becky]

I was trying.

[Alessandra]

I was. Was. Wait, you were?

[Becky]

Yeah, just. It's not how it works, you know.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, well, anyway, anyhow, good insight. And also you had to do. What did you call it? An echocardiogram.

[Becky]

I know you weren't listening to me.

[Alessandra]

I was gonna ask you a question about it.

[Becky]

Oh, yeah, that's. That's what? Yeah, that. It's a fetal echo.

[Alessandra]

Okay, so what is the reasoning? I know you have to do it for ivf, but what is the reasoning?

[Becky]

I think that there's an increase. Hold on, Leah. Everyone's going to get to meet Leah a little bit for the first time, if she's willing. Leah, can you come here?

[Kale]

Round of applause for Leah.

[Alessandra]

The live studio audience.

[Becky]

Hi. GROANS can you come here for quick, quick second? Can you tell the listeners. Hi.

[Alessandra]

Hey, Leah, could you please let me and other people know what exactly the echo fetal test is for? Tests are for specifically for IVF patients.

[Becky]

I think it's just to look at.

[Alessandra]

The heart and the structure so to make sure the valves are functioning correctly, to make sure that they have the right tubes coming off of their heart. Make sure they have all the anatomy scan. Yeah, it's just like a. Like, is there a higher. To the heart.

[Becky]

Is there a higher risk in IVF for something. For there's something to be wrong with the heart? Like, why does just IVF do it?

[Alessandra]

They said that IVF babies are more prone to heart abnormalities. Yeah, but I have not done the research to figure out exactly which heart abnormalities, and you're putting me on the spot. One of my cousins was an IVF baby and was born with a heart condition. Now that you say that.

[Becky]

Yeah. Like, valve stuff or vessel stuff.

[Alessandra]

I don't. Specifics. I'm not sure, but everything looked good, so. So baby backs is healthy and. Well, yes, we love that. Yeah.

[Becky]

She has a little bump.

[Alessandra]

Baby bump.

[Kale]

Look at that.

[Alessandra]

That's crazy. Move around. It's still, like, fluttery. But she said I have an anterior placenta, so. So that's. Yeah. I mean, not unusual to not feel him that much, but it's more consistent. Like, it. Like it's a different type of gas feeling. I also had interior placenta for two of my kids, obviously in a different place each time, but 25. Well, do you know that the placenta cannot reattach to the same exact place it was before? So if you guys were to have another baby, you could have anterior placenta again, but it will never reattach to the same place because there's, like, scar tissue. You there. So it'll go somewhere else. No, I didn't know that. So the. If you were to get pregnant again, you might feel very differently at week 20 because of the placement of the placenta.

[Becky]

Whoa.

[Alessandra]

Cool. Yeah. Well, Becky's gonna try next time, and we're gonna see what happens, because two kids seems great.

[Becky]

She was laying in bed last night and was like, I guess I could do this again if I had to, but not on the top of my list.

[Alessandra]

Okay. So would you do. Would you carry next time, Becky?

[Becky]

I'll give it a shot.

[Alessandra]

We're gonna give it a shot. I just think pregnancy, you know, it's beautiful. I'm very lucky.

[Becky]

I.

[Alessandra]

Unfortunate, but pregnancy is kind of a drag.

[Becky]

You're talking to someone who's been pregnant seven times.

[Alessandra]

I mean, did you have fun? Did you like pregnancies, or did you like kids? I didn't want kids originally, so that's the craziest part. What's interesting to me is, like, I really didn't Mind loved pregnancy with the first and second and third. But fourth, I started to not love pregnancy as much. And I could be that it could be the age. Like my first three were before 25. So that could play a role.

[Becky]

I would agree with that. Probably does. You're like more of a spring chicken, you know.

[Alessandra]

Yeah. And I don't feel like I'm a spring chicken at all. I feel like, you know, I'm hoping that the kid gets my desire to lay down and nap.

[Becky]

Oh, that's also something that we've been talking about. So Leah sleeps all the time. If, if she's not working, she's sleeping or laying or laying. Do you think that there's any correlation between how much you sleep, sleep during your pregnancy and how much the child sleeps when they're out of the.

[Alessandra]

No, because I have. Are you sure? I hope for you like there you get like the off chance. But like, I'll tell you what, all I wanted to do is sleep with Creed Romello Lowry Lopez, and he never slept a day in his life. But you wanted to sleep. Did you sleep? Because I'm sleeping. Well, I couldn't because I had three older children.

[Kale]

Yeah, see, that's it.

[Alessandra]

I think he's gonna be a sleeper.

[Kale]

What about Rio?

[Alessandra]

Rio's a great sleeper. Rio is a great sleeper.

[Kale]

Weren't you like.

[Alessandra]

I know I'll.

[Kale]

I'll edit this out, but no, you.

[Alessandra]

Don'T have to edit it out.

[Kale]

I was era, so I think like, you know what I mean?

[Alessandra]

So what did Rio sleep? Well, Rio is a very great sleeper. And I was heavily depressed and sleeping. Like I would literally drop my kids off, go to sleep, and then I would wake up from a nap and then I'd go out, say hi to everyone and be like, okay, I'm going back to sleep, that kind of thing. And Rio's a great sleeper. I mean, he doesn't want to sleep all the time, but like he would wakes up, I mean, at between anywhere between seven and eight o'clock, which is really great for a two year old. Yeah. And you like him, right? We love him. Yeah, we love Creed too, but he doesn't sleep, so. Yeah.

[Becky]

Yeah, we're gonna like this baby. I think he's gonna.

[Alessandra]

It'll help you because you guys, if you guys do a lot with, with baby Bex.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

He'll get used to sleeping kind of everywhere. So that'll be helpful so that if you do want to sleep and Becky takes them out, he'll. He could just learn to sleep wherever she is golfing wherever.

[Becky]

On the golf course.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, of course. Well, I was asked, we were talking today about if we can put, like, a car seat in the tractor so my dad can like, babysit him and.

[Becky]

Like, you know, on the farm, he could just, like, mow the fields and wear him.

[Alessandra]

Put a baby. Give him a baby.

[Becky]

That would work.

[Alessandra]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Is he a tripping hazard, though?

[Alessandra]

What? My dad.

[Becky]

Yeah. No, on the tractor. Just, like, while he's there. Yeah, he just drive around with him. He's gonna be a farm boy. Yeah.

[Alessandra]

As he should slow. It's like five miles an hour, and.

[Becky]

Tractors go 20 miles an hour, 30 miles an hour. All right.

[Alessandra]

But it's not like, you know, 90 on Route 80. There's nothing that really, like, hit.

[Becky]

So.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, it's gonna be.

[Becky]

It's gonna be good.

[Alessandra]

It's gonna be so good. Yeah. So good.

[Becky]

All right, thanks.

[Alessandra]

Okay, love you. Thanks, Leah. Really quickly, before we go, I just wanted to give an update on the farm animals. Really quick. Last episode, we talked about the. The pigs balls and stuff like that, and I just want to say that the farm that did come out and say that it would be best to castrate the. The pigs.

[Becky]

Okay.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

So switch the food out. So the. The. The goats are on a diet, and then we are. We are taking steps to castrate the pigs. And then did I tell the story about the new chickens that Elijah. I came home to new chickens. Did I tell you that? Yeah. So they're. They're living and thriving and loving. So if anyone has tips on how to. I've never done this. I've only had one block of chickens with. I'm now going to be. Not anytime soon, probably in the next, like, month or so. I will be transitioning the chicks that are growing so fast, by the way, so fast. I have to introduce this flock to the OG flock, and I don't do that.

[Becky]

So integrating them.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, because, like, I don't want there to be, like, a pecking order, like, anyone to get pecked to death. You know, there might.

[Becky]

That might be a question for my mom, Marianne.

[Alessandra]

Let me know.

[Becky]

She's probably listening.

[Alessandra]

Perfect. Will you ask her also?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Perfect. Thank you.

[Becky]

You got it. Now is time for our little end.

[Alessandra]

Of podcast segment called is it karma or is it chaos? And you guys can please, for the love of God, or anything holy. Please email us at info karma, chaos, podcast.com. we want stories. We need stories. Yeah, we would love that.

[Becky]

Yeah, just a little chaotic story. Let us. Let us just yap it out. Let everyone hear it.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, let's hear it. Let's. Let's talk about it.

[Becky]

Yeah. Yeah. So jokes on you guys. We're actually not going to read one today because we need someone to send submit one.

[Alessandra]

So yeah, if you guys could submit stories. Is it karma? Is it chaos? We want to know. Info karmakaos podcast.com you can also follow our Instagram. Now we have Karma Chaos Pod on Instagram becky hater.com hater25 on all socials for Becky. You know where to find me and we'll catch y'all next time.

[Becky]

Thanks for listening. Love you.

[Alessandra]

See ya.

[Becky]

Bye. All right, I may not be as.

[Alessandra]

Funny as Nikki Laser.

[Kale]

I want to pitch a series of calendars where men are just crossing, crying.

[Becky]

In a therapist's office or punching a.

[Alessandra]

Pillow and working out their anger towards their dad. But I do have my moments. I actually have full conversations with the moon.

[Becky]

Yes, I try to keep it pretty.

[Alessandra]

Balanced on this podcast. A little fun dance between comedy therapy, self medicating. Oh, and sorry if you haven't guessed. Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Bristowe, host of off the vine podcast where we like to just keep things loose and keep them raw and keep them real. Like when we have listeners call in and give confessions and then that glass of wine progressed into me becoming a unicorn for them.

[Becky]

So.

[Alessandra]

But we do, and I promise you this, try to keep it honest and vulnerable. So jump on the wagon, not off. Grab your favorite bottle of wine, preferably spade and sparrows, and join the vinos. Have yourself a time. The off the vine podcast is available.

[Becky]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alessandra]

Pluto TV is the place for movie fans like me and TV fans like me. They've got something for everyone and it's totally free.

[Becky]

You can binge laugh out loud sitcoms.

[Alessandra]

Like Frasier and rewatch cult classics like Higher Learning. Whether you're in the mood to solve.

[Becky]

A little crime before bedtime with NCIS or Tracker, or curl up with a.

[Kale]

Surefire hit like Forrest Gump.

[Becky]

Run Forrest Gump.

[Alessandra]

Pluto TV has thousands of movies and.

[Becky]

Shows, all for free.

[Alessandra]

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[Kale]

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