The Monkeys Are Avoiding Taxes

Summary

Podcast Summary: Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter Episode: The Monkeys Are Avoiding Taxes
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Hosted By: PodcastOne

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Karma & Chaos is a vibrant podcast hosted by Kail Lowry and Becky Hayter, two friends navigating the intricacies of their 30s. In the episode titled "The Monkeys Are Avoiding Taxes," released on July 8, 2025, Kail and Becky delve deep into personal challenges, friendship dynamics, parenting, and whimsical theories about evolution and taxes. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and humorous exchanges that define this engaging episode.

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1. Personal Updates and Life Challenges

The episode kicks off with Kail sharing a somber update about personal losses and upcoming changes in his life.

• Emotional Struggles: Kail opens up about a tough week marked by the loss of Leah's dog and his missing cat, stating, "Leah's dog died and my cat is missing. And everyone listening to this knows how much I love my cats." (00:57)

• Pregnancy News: Kail reveals that his partner, Leah, is three centimeters dilated and expecting to deliver soon. Becky expresses her excitement and support, highlighting the joy of spontaneous childbirth: "Giving birth is the best part of pregnancy." (02:11)

2. Friendship Dynamics and Communication

A significant portion of the episode revolves around the playful yet revealing dynamics between Kail and Becky.

• Communication Misunderstandings: Kail brings up a recent lapse in communication, joking about Becky ignoring his FaceTime calls. Becky counters by explaining her busy week, leading to a humorous back-and-forth where they tease each other about being bullies in their friendship: "We just bully each other. That's just a part of our friendship." (12:11)

• Invitation Faux Pas: The conversation shifts to a mutual friend's birthday party where Becky was not invited. They brainstorm amusing ways to handle the situation, emphasizing their close-knit bond despite minor snubs: "She's the life of the party and I'm the slug. We fucking ate them." (15:30)

3. Parenting and Breastfeeding Insights

Kail and Becky share their experiences and opinions on parenting, specifically focusing on breastfeeding challenges.

• Breastfeeding Realities: Becky discusses the mental and physical toll breastfeeding took on her, highlighting the pressures within the breastfeeding community. She mentions, "The mental toll that breastfeeding takes on you is like at first it's all great and good. Did you breastfeed by the end of the year? I was like crying because I cannot do this anymore." (40:06)

• Feeding Practices: They debate the standards of baby feeding, questioning the rigidity of feeding schedules and the differences between breastfed and formula-fed babies: "Why do we feed them so much out of a bottle? Why don't we do..." (39:30)

4. Whimsical Theories: Monkeys Avoiding Taxes

In a lighthearted segment, the hosts explore a quirky TikTok theory that monkeys are intelligent beings avoiding taxes.

• Evolution and Intelligence: They humorously discuss the idea that monkeys could talk but choose not to to evade tax responsibilities, leading to a playful debate about evolution and the practicality of such a scenario: "If we evolve from monkeys, why can't they talk?" (24:22)

• Humorous Speculations: The conversation meanders through various humorous anecdotes about animal intelligence and human societal structures, keeping the tone light and entertaining.

5. Listener Engagement: Sperm Donation Dilemma

Becky presents a heartfelt question from a listener contemplating donating sperm to a lesbian couple, sparking a meaningful discussion on family building and societal norms.

• Ethical Considerations: Kail emphasizes the importance of altruism in sperm donation, advising legal precautions and the emotional implications of such a decision: "It's a beautiful thing to think beyond yourself. Let them spend the money on, like, the lawyer or whatever." (49:58)

• Personal Reflections: Becky shares her belief in non-traditional family structures, highlighting that a family's stability isn't solely based on biological ties: "Your village is not necessarily the people that you are blood related to. And your village can be, you know, and your family can be non-traditional and it can still be a family." (52:05)

6. Pop Culture and Entertainment

Towards the end of the episode, Kail and Becky touch upon popular shows and their emotional impacts.

• TV Show Discussion: They discuss the series "Jenny and Georgia," sharing personal reactions and emotional responses to the characters' developments: "This season was wild because you start seeing Georgia become her... Like plotting other people." (45:29)

7. Humor and Lighthearted Banter

The episode is peppered with humorous exchanges and inside jokes that showcase the hosts' chemistry.

• Nipple Piercing Talks: A playful conversation ensues about nipple piercings, reflecting their comfort in discussing intimate topics openly: "They are Mother Nature's accessory. I love nipples." (28:08)

• Culinary Adventures: They recount funny experiences with tasting unusual foods like caviar and matcha, adding levity to the discussion: "I tried caviar, too." (17:06)

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Notable Quotes:

• Kail on Personal Losses: "Leah's dog died and my cat is missing. And everyone listening to this knows how much I love my cats." (00:57)

• Becky on Spontaneous Birth: "Giving birth is the best part of pregnancy." (02:46)

• Becky on Friendship Dynamics: "We just bully each other. That's just a part of our friendship." (14:51)

• Becky on Non-Traditional Families: "Your village is not necessarily the people that you are blood related to. And your village can be, you know, and your family can be non-traditional and it can still be a family." (52:05)

• Kail on Sperm Donation Ethics: "It's a beautiful thing to think beyond yourself." (49:58)

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Concluding Thoughts

In "The Monkeys Are Avoiding Taxes," Kail and Becky offer listeners a blend of heartfelt personal narratives, candid discussions on complex topics like grief and parenting, and their signature humor. Their ability to navigate serious subjects with levity makes this episode a relatable and enriching listen for anyone journeying through the chaos and karma of modern adulthood.

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Timestamp Reference:

• 00:57 - Kail talks about personal losses.
• 02:46 - Becky on the joys of spontaneous childbirth.
• 14:51 - Becky on friendship dynamics.
• 40:06 - Becky discusses breastfeeding challenges.
• 39:30 - Debate on baby feeding practices.
• 24:22 - Discussion on monkeys avoiding taxes.
• 49:58 - Listener question on sperm donation.
• 52:05 - Becky on non-traditional families.
• 45:29 - Discussion on TV shows.
• 28:08 - Conversation about nipple piercings.
• 17:06 - Kail and Becky on caviar tasting experiences.

Transcript

[Alessandra]

Foreign.

[Becky]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to karma and chaos. If you can't see my face, it's because I'm getting hair and makeup. Because I have two guests. I'm barely famous. So just bear with us today.

[Kale]

We are back in IRL in a while. Good morning, good evening, good night. Whenever you're listening, we're happy to have you here.

[Becky]

Yeah, we are.

[Kale]

Thanks for listening to Carmine Cast. I did not sleep here, so I might look a little bit more put together on a morning episode.

[Becky]

You were supposed to sleep here, though.

[Kale]

I was supposed to.

[Becky]

So you were not a man of your word.

[Kale]

I'm gonna tell you why I. I didn't sleep here. There's multiple reasons I didn't sleep here. Number one, it's been a hard week. I'm gonna get this out of the way. Father's Day, year, year anniversary of my. My dead dad.

[Becky]

Can we call this episode my dead dad?

[Kale]

Leah's dog died and my cat is missing. And everyone listening to this knows how much I love my cats. So I'm not going to talk about it too much because I don't want to get emotional and start crying.

[Becky]

We don't need your eyes to get wet today.

[Kale]

No. And so the real reason. Well, last night Lee and I were looking for the cat. It got late. I was thinking about coming. The real reason I didn't come is because Lee and I went to the doctors yesterday. She's for a check. And I just want to say Leah convinced me to try to find her cervix and she dilated and I couldn't find it. And I'm just so confused about the female anatomy.

[Becky]

Your cervix is right before the vagina.

[Kale]

Could not find anything. I felt something and I did. I don't know.

[Becky]

Anyway, how dilated is she?

[Kale]

She's 3cm dilated.

[Becky]

Yeah. That doesn't mean anything. And I thought you were gonna be like, she's six centimeters tightly.

[Kale]

I mean, she. She's three weeks out, so that's pretty normal. 3. The midwife told us to expect delivery next week.

[Becky]

Oh, perfect. So she doesn't have to this weekend.

[Kale]

Oh, yeah. So I stayed home because Leah was contracting yesterday, having contractions, and I was nervous to leave throughout the night.

[Becky]

That is so exciting. It's also exciting. And I. Everyone knows how I feel about it, but I don't love inductions. And so I love that she's going to get to go experience, like, her water breaking stuff on our own. And, like, the element of surprise, like, that just adds to everything that you experience during childbirth.

[Kale]

I asked, because I asked the midwife if we were still planning to do a membrane sweep next week. And she kind of, like, looked at me like, you're not making it to that, so it's not going to be needed. And she's like, oh, it's going to be a spontaneous.

[Becky]

You're going to love it.

[Kale]

Spontaneous.

[Becky]

That's the best part.

[Kale]

Birth.

[Becky]

Giving birth is the best part of pregnancy. Like, going into labor. All of it is the best part of pregnancy.

[Kale]

I am excited about this because our entire pregnancy has been very scientific, very planned, very. No surprises whatsoever because, well, I guess the gender was a surprise. But the idea of, like, being woken up in the middle of the night and Liam being like, it's time my water broke, or it's time, like, makes me so excited.

[Becky]

I told you one thing, Kale was right about this time. So I love that. I hope that it goes so smoothly. I hope that you. She has an amazing labor and delivery. I hope that you guys soak up every moment and also take your cameras because you'll want to print the pictures.

[Kale]

I'm gonna take all my cameras. Yeah, she. I think that she'll honestly go into labor Sunday because, like, this coming Sunday, she has three shifts.

[Leah]

Her last three shifts of work.

[Kale]

She's gonna work them our Friday, Saturday, Sunday, she's gonna work them. Y. Yeah. I think that it's going to send her into labor.

[Becky]

I mean, that's. Being on your feet is one way to do it.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

So I, I, She's a rock star.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

So I'll be. I'm so excited for you guys. If you need anything, if you want to just. If you could let me know so I can start sending meals to your house, because I think that's really important to have. You don't want to be having to cook while you're.

[Kale]

I know that you've been ignoring my FaceTime calls recently, but if I. The next time I FaceTime you.

[Becky]

I haven't been ignoring them. I also had an incredibly wild week. That's all.

[Kale]

Yeah, that, that's fair. But, like, next time I FaceTime, you just know that it's probably going to be have a baby in the picture.

[Becky]

Okay, so I'll answer.

[Kale]

That's your pre. Warning. One thing I do want to talk about. I know I glimmed. Like, glimmed? Is that the word?

[Becky]

No.

[Kale]

Glazed.

[Becky]

Glazed. Glimpsed. She glimmed over it.

[Kale]

I glazed it over a little bit. But one thing I was not expecting. The first year anniversary of death is very hard. But one thing I was not expecting just from experiencing grief for the past year is the amount of jealousy that comes with grief. And I wanted to recognize that because your entire like being kind of changes like the way that you perceive life and consume life changes like I no longer can. And look at like videos of people telling their parents that they're pregnant or parents interacting with or grandparents interacting with kids without feeling like an overwhelming amount of jealousy. Like I can't just look at it and enjoy it and consume it. It's like I get mixed emotions now because of it because I'm also sad for myself. And I don't think that part of grief is talked about enough because like you, you go through life just so differently like of. Of grieving like obviously and like being just being jealous of things that people have.

[Becky]

I felt that my whole life.

[Kale]

Yeah. I mean valid life. Yeah.

[Becky]

Like I could never call my mom and say I'm pregnant. I could never call my dad and say I'm pregnant. I could never call and just be excited. You know what I mean? So it's a different kind of jealousy I guess. But I guess when you are grieving the loss of someone, it's new where I like felt it my whole life. So it didn't. Wasn't.

[Kale]

You were grieving those experiences like and jealous of those experiences.

[Becky]

So same feelings but in a different way.

[Kale]

It's the same feelings. You just experienced it earlier than I did. Like I wasn't in the shoes to be able to experience when you had.

[Becky]

A great dad your whole life and then, you know, you experienced that. I could see why that would be really.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Almost like traumatizing.

[Kale]

But I so I did wanted to. To touch on that because for sure I think it's important. I think like we don't talk talk about like just the different parts of grief.

[Becky]

Do you feel that way towards Leah because she still has her dad?

[Kale]

Definitely sometimes.

[Becky]

Have you ever shared that with her?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

So she like knows she like gets it.

[Kale]

Oh 100. Leah and I like talk about a lot like, and I talk about a lot of my feelings like with her like it like even like when I. The day comes when Bex is here and like her dad will be able to like hold him and like, and be with him. That's. I mean that's going to be.

[Leah]

Something.

[Kale]

That should be just filled with love.

[Leah]

Like it's.

[Kale]

It's definitely going to be filled with jealousy as well.

[Becky]

Wow, that's so. I don't know what the word. I don't want to say interesting, but, like, I guess I never thought of it because I've never lost a parent, so I never thought of it in that way. It was just natural. But like, for you, it's new.

[Kale]

Yeah. Like, I texted Gene on. On Father's Day. I just like, told him, happy Father's Day. He said, thank you. Love you too. Let's see that grand grandson already. And like, I was like, fuck, you know, my eyes are wet.

[Becky]

Don't do that. Don't do that.

[Kale]

Anyway, next conversation. Next topic of conversation. Who in this room thinks that it's unfair to have a best friend that. That interviews authors and has no. No passion or purpose to bring on an author that their best friend wants to hear?

[Becky]

Do you want to hear Sarah J. Maas?

[Kale]

Yeah. Mass Moss. Is it Moss or Moss?

[Becky]

I don't know.

[Kale]

Or Rebecca Yaros? I think it's really up that.

[Becky]

You know why? Because they were both pitched to me and I'm waiting for the day that you can join us. That's why.

[Kale]

No.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

No way.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

I don't believe it until I see it.

[Becky]

I'm not. I don't know those books. Why would I do? You literally led a book club live around them. So I. You would need to be there. Emily got to participate yesterday for the first time. If I ever get Rebecca or Sarah, I will have you there as well.

[Kale]

I'm reading right now. I'm reading this. Another Sarah J. Maas. The.

[Becky]

We haven't played that game in a while. What we.

[Leah]

Throne of Glass.

[Becky]

We used to say every episode, what we were reading.

[Kale]

I'll be on this. This series for a really long time.

[Becky]

So what is the series?

[Kale]

It's Throne of Glass. I'm on book five and six. You read them in tandem. So you. Like it's two books that were written at. On the same timeline, but people like to read them in tandem. So you're not going back and forth like, one of the main characters is Kale and spell it C H A O L. And so I listened to the audio, so I knew that's how you pronounced it. So. And I saw an interview or it was of someone on a podcast and she calls him Chaw because, like, she just read the book. But, like, if you've never heard, like, don't know how it's said, like, well.

[Becky]

She didn't listen to the audio.

[Kale]

No.

[Becky]

I'm waiting for the day that someone names a character or their baby after me because it's gonna happen. That was really close to Kale. It was so close.

[Kale]

And she was too stunned to speak.

[Alessandra]

I've been telling all the authors, she wants them to name a character after.

[Becky]

Well, why haven't they? Why haven't they?

[Kale]

I mean, I guess you listen to, like. I mean, you read different books than I do, but I just imagine a fairy named Kale and I'm like, that doesn't matter.

[Becky]

She was a fairy.

[Kale]

Yeah. Interesting. Wait, wait.

[Becky]

So you think I'm a fairy?

[Kale]

No, I don't. I think you would more belong in, like, a smaller.

[Becky]

Not the swamp. Just call me Shrek. Just call me Fiona.

[Kale]

You said a thriller.

[Becky]

A swamp, though, Like a swamp thriller. Like, what are you.

[Alessandra]

What's a swamp thriller?

[Becky]

Maybe the Lake of Lost Girls.

[Kale]

Yeah, I've never heard that in my entire life.

[Becky]

I'm reading the Addicted series. I'm on book six, if you were wondering.

[Kale]

I was wondering.

[Becky]

Thank you. Yeah. It's book six out of ten.

[Kale]

Wow.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

How is it?

[Becky]

It's good. There's a lot of smut in it, which I'm getting used to. It is like a lot of, you know, sucking dick under the desk.

[Kale]

Oh, my.

[Becky]

And the dad walking in, like, there's just stuff going on that I could never relate to, but I.

[Kale]

We need trigger warnings.

[Becky]

Okay, sure.

[Leah]

Okay. I'm just going to say it. Nobody prepared me for how chaotic my downstairs could feel sometimes. Like, one week, everything's great, the next, I'm googling. What does that mean? What does this mean at 1am? So when I found out that tight leggings, working out my cycle, even just existing basically can throw things off, and I was like, oh, it's not just me. That's when I found Euro by O positive. It's a vaginal probiotic designed specifically to Help balance your pH, support healthy smell, and just keep your vagina floral in check. Two capsules a day. And y', all, I notice a difference. Fast women out here just living their best life and thanking Euro for it. Honestly. Same. Take proactive care of your health and head to positive.com Karma and enter Karma at checkout for 25% off your first purchase. That's O P O S I T I V.com Karma for 25 off.

[Kale]

Kayl's been ignoring me for a little bit and that is not true.

[Leah]

It is.

[Kale]

It has been true. Which is fine. Like, you're busy, I'm busy. It's okay. But it was funny because you hadn't been answering my text messages and.

[Becky]

Leah, that's literally not true.

[Kale]

Okay, I'm pulling them Up.

[Alessandra]

Right.

[Kale]

And. And Leah had texted her after she hadn't answered me. And I thought to myself, if she doesn't answer Leah, I'm like, that's it. I'm terminating this friendship. But you're lucky, because you did.

[Alessandra]

She did. She answered Leah, but not you.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

I'm literally scrolling through my text messages. She'll send me the most random text. Hey, when you can, can you send me a picture of you? Of you, thumbs down, no smile. Sure, no problem. What does she do, make a sticker collection?

[Kale]

You and Oliver.

[Becky]

Wait, you never said the one of me, like, jumping the.

[Kale]

Sorry.

[Becky]

See, the two of them make stickers of me all the time. There's literally not one text that went unanswered.

[Kale]

Yeah, there is.

[Becky]

No, there's not.

[Kale]

Yes, there is. I said, hey, just checking in. No answer.

[Becky]

Where was that? What day?

[Kale]

Saturday.

[Becky]

I'm on Monday, June 9th. I sent you something. You said, should I do a wall? I said, yes. You. You sent me three texts in a row. I said, I agree with you. You sent me yourself. I said, morning. You said, that's the moon I spilled. Lol. Where do. I don't have a just checking in text from you?

[Kale]

Yeah, it was Saturday.

[Becky]

Oh, you said, just checking in on Saturday, and I said, thinking of you today, on Sunday. That's basically an answer.

[Kale]

It was for two separate reasons.

[Becky]

It was basically, I'm thinking of you. Love you so much.

[Kale]

I'm not saying it wasn't nice. And that's it, folks. No, I'm just kidding.

[Becky]

All right, see you later. The tea is hot.

[Kale]

And there. There you have it. We haven't talked in, like, two weeks.

[Becky]

I was saving it for the podcast. I wanted to be authentically us. I went to a rage room.

[Kale]

I saw that on the itinerary.

[Becky]

You weren't invited.

[Kale]

I wasn't invited.

[Alessandra]

Said she doesn't have. She's not an angry person.

[Kale]

Did she go ham?

[Alessandra]

No, she was scared.

[Kale]

You're such a little.

[Alessandra]

Claims it's because she doesn't have any anger and she's not an angry person.

[Becky]

I just talked to my therapist on Tuesday.

[Alessandra]

I said, who? Patricia?

[Becky]

I have a feeling you're ridiculous.

[Kale]

Off.

[Becky]

Why are you so mean to me? I got a comment on a tik tok the other day, and it said that I was so cruel to you or I was so harsh to you, and I literally said, in what way? Because you bully me every day of my life, and I get for it.

[Kale]

Okay?

[Becky]

I pushed back one time, and Kale's the bully.

[Kale]

We Just bully each other. That's just a part of our friendship. But you are a bully to me. I agree with you. Always when doesn't have. I don't need it. I don't need receipts. The Internet will believe me. You're such a little. I would have been swinging.

[Becky]

I don't. People think that I'm so angry. I'm really not.

[Kale]

You are angry, but it's situational.

[Becky]

It sounds like prison.

[Alessandra]

What did I say?

[Becky]

Bastard ass.

[Kale]

That looks so much fun.

[Becky]

Invite, invite.

[Kale]

Invite. Must have got lost in the mail. Just like Alyssa's birthday. Or listen, Alyssa's birthday party. Yeah, that was fucked up.

[Becky]

For anyone that doesn't know, Lissa is on the killer team. And she runs. She helps. She helps with karma and chaos. And she did invite me to her birthday party, and she did not invite Becky. And so I was saying, before we started recording, I never thought I would see a day where I was invited somewhere that Rebecca Hayter wasn't, because she's the life of the party and I'm the slug. We also ate slugs. We fucking slugs. We fucking ate them.

[Kale]

This is so chaotic.

[Alessandra]

Okay, like.

[Kale]

Like, off the ground.

[Becky]

Yes, off the ground. They literally put. Yes, they were off the ground.

[Kale]

Am I gonna get contacts here or. No?

[Becky]

We went to dinner and ate slugs. So snails or as cargo.

[Kale]

Are snails and slugs different?

[Alessandra]

Yes.

[Becky]

Oh, well, we ate one of them. And they were disgusting. They were so foul. I don't know how anyone eats them, truly. You would have had a great time. And I think the next time that we have a rendezv in New York City, we need to basically replicate what they did to me. We need to do it, too. They kidnapped me from this Airbnb right here. And they said, we're going to dinner and we're going to a rage room. They removed me from the premises. And we also ate caviar.

[Kale]

I tried caviar, too.

[Becky]

Did you. Was it good? Did you like it?

[Kale]

I did.

[Becky]

I didn't love it.

[Kale]

Did you eat it with creme fraiche on a really nice.

[Becky]

We ate it on a mozzarella stick.

[Kale]

Oh, I could see that being good.

[Becky]

Not Alessandra, not her.

[Kale]

Sending me the invite right now.

[Becky]

That's more than I got, so. Oh, okay. Why was it not me?

[Alessandra]

Not me?

[Kale]

Why wasn't. Why wasn't I thought of to begin with? Like, I'm here. Should we show up?

[Becky]

Should we show up and just, like, show up and then dip?

[Kale]

Should we just show up at least for, like, 10 minutes and then just Crash the party. Yeah.

[Alessandra]

She'll pretend she doesn't.

[Becky]

She's like, I didn't invite them. You're like, actually listen to the podcast. We have proof.

[Kale]

Fascinating. How many people are going. 27. You have 27 friends, Becky, how many.

[Becky]

Friends do you think you have in these days?

[Kale]

I don't know.

[Becky]

How many people came to your wedding.

[Alessandra]

Was just full of people?

[Becky]

What, literally your wedding and your baby shower. Like, how many people have a lot of friends? If you could. If everyone that you wanted to be there was that what could be.

[Kale]

I have a lot of friends.

[Becky]

Like, how many?

[Kale]

Okay, but here's the thing. I have a lot of friends because I am very intentional and very.

[Becky]

That's not what I asked. How many friends do you have?

[Kale]

A lot. Like, friends in, like, acquaintances. People I could call to hang out with. Right. Or, like, best friends?

[Becky]

No friends. Anybody that falls into the category of friends. Not have a lot of. It's not a. You'll catch up when you catch up. Like, a real friend that you would consider a friend that you would want to be there with you in your mom. Trying times.

[Kale]

I probably have, like, 100, 200 friends.

[Becky]

Oh, my God. What is.

[Alessandra]

You have 100 people you could call during a trying time?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

That's crazy.

[Becky]

What is that? Like, I have, like, four. I literally have, like, four.

[Kale]

But that's. But, like, I also put energy into people. Like, it's not just because of any other reason than, like, I also put my energy into other people. So it's very intentional.

[Becky]

Yeah, of course.

[Kale]

I just make connections. I tried to. I try to keep connections with good people that have, like, brought happiness to.

[Becky]

My life or have you ever experienced a friend that places more emphasis on you than you do on them? Like, have you ever had someone call you their best friend and they are absolutely not your best friend?

[Kale]

No, it's been.

[Becky]

Has anyone ever posted for your birthday and said, happy birthday to my best friend and you're like. Like, we're not best friends?

[Kale]

No. Has that happened to you?

[Becky]

That happens to me a lot.

[Kale]

Yeah, but you have a lot of surface level friendships.

[Becky]

Okay, that's just. You didn't have to cut me that deep.

[Kale]

No, but we've talked about that before. That's been, like, the whole root of like, issues for you is that, like, you never know people's intentions with you.

[Becky]

You can contour it. Because I'm getting my neck chopped off, and I would like it to be as close to what it's going to look like after.

[Leah]

Got it.

[Becky]

Thank you.

[Alessandra]

I'm clipping.

[Kale]

I'm just really, I'm just really fortunate to have like good people around me. But I will say I've been. I think I've. I talked about this recently is that I'm very envious of Leah's friendship with Natasha because like, they're each other's people. Like, when anyone asks them who their people are, like, they will say each other. And I just don't think that I.

[Becky]

Have like, that one person have a.

[Kale]

Person that would like, choose me over everyone.

[Becky]

I don't agree.

[Kale]

Okay.

[Becky]

I think you have a lot of people in your life that would.

[Kale]

I have a lot of people that would choose me. But like, I, like, I don't have like, yeah, like Leah is definitely my best friend, but like I don't have friends that I know I'm gonna see every weekend or I know that like I know like what is going on in their life or xyz. Like all of my friends also have other friends. Like Leah and Natasha are like soulmates in a different life. Right. Like, I have a lot of friends that I share that connection with, but not just like to us.

[Becky]

Right. I got that for sure.

[Kale]

So it's, It's a weird. For someone like me who like loves my friends probably more than most people love their partners, like, it's a very weird situation to be in because like, I like, want to be loved too.

[Becky]

Yeah. Do you remember the time in New York when I asked you, I told you that I felt like you don't love me as much as your other friends? Remember that?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

I don't feel that way anymore.

[Kale]

Yes. Seriously. Glad we got that cleared up. Even though you don't answer my FaceTime.

[Becky]

Call, I had a rough week. Okay. People are putting my business out there whether it's true or not. And so I'm. I'm just tired, you know?

[Kale]

I guess the one benefit for us is like, we can comment now. You're like, like when you just want to like kind of talk to someone and you're like, never mind. I can't say anything cuz we don't know who K wants to be today.

[Becky]

It's a hard place to be. Exactly. Living a double life is like, I like what? Don't trying to reel back a little bit on and not be old Kale and like go digest things with my therapist before I comment. Well, it's just like I'm preaching to my son on an episode of him coming out about how he should have the final say and what he wants out there about his life and his sexuality. And then I'm turning around and I'm not able to do the same is like, do you know what I mean?

[Kale]

I think it's different though. You guys are at different stages of life. You want him to start his. Like you've experienced all of those things. You don't want him to experience it and then have that like going back and forth.

[Becky]

I just didn't know that we were going backwards. Like, great.

[Leah]

When people start podcasts, they are typically like content we can do. Websites, logistics, selling, anything. Total deer in headlights moment. I didn't even know what I didn't know. I wish I had Shopify back then. Shopify is like your built in business partner. From beautiful store templates to helpful AI tools that write product descriptions and boost your marketing game, it's got everything. And yes, it's the platform behind that iconic purple shop pay button, the one that makes checkout a breeze. It powers 10% of all US E. Commerce. That is wild. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com karma. Go to shopify.com karma shopify.com karma.

[Becky]

Anyway, what's on your list today?

[Kale]

I have a couple of things on my list.

[Becky]

Okay, let's go down it.

[Kale]

Number one. This is so random coming off that. Is there anything else you want to say before we.

[Becky]

That's all of it.

[Kale]

My first thing on here is I saw a tick tock about why you.

[Becky]

Because I never know what's gonna come out of your mouth ever.

[Kale]

This girl fully believes that monkeys are smart enough talk, but they just don't want to have to pay taxes. So they purchase same. They pretend to like lack intelligence beyond what they give you because they don't want to have to be like enslaved to society in a more like, severe way than they already are.

[Becky]

I actually, I could get behind that theory. You know what I mean?

[Kale]

Is that like something that we could support?

[Becky]

You know what?

[Kale]

Because if we evolve from monkeys, why can't they talk?

[Becky]

Well, because. No, because we had this cup, me and someone just had this conversation. Because, right, like, if you take an axolotl, right?

[Kale]

Oh, what?

[Becky]

Just listen. Just listen.

[Kale]

What did she say?

[Becky]

Listen, this is my theory of evolution. If you take an axolotl, it's like, it's like a reptile amphibian sort of deal. And it has legs, right? And you put it in the tank, okay? And you have the PH balance and you take care of It Right. If you stop. Just listen. Just follow the bouncing ball. Okay? I'm trying. Just. If you stop taking care of it, the legs fall off. So then it, like, is evolving to. It's adapting to its surroundings. But that's not going to happen to every single axolotl. So the same can be said for the ape family, right? Like, some evolved into humans and some didn't. Right? The ape family. What is it like the marsupial family? The Homo erecti?

[Kale]

I don't know. I'm not on that kick right now. Iran kick? Not that. So just keep going.

[Becky]

No, that was my theory, though, is like, we. We evolved because only some of them evolve. It's the same way that, like, so.

[Kale]

The apes that aren't evolved don't have a chance to evolve at all.

[Becky]

Probably not. Not in this. Like, maybe they're babies. Because, like, that's why a lot of our wisdom teeth are impacted, because we don't need wisdom teeth anymore. Do you know what I mean? Like, we're evolving. I don't know what's funny, but I'm laughing because she's laughing and I feel like. I feel like I have a point. I have a point.

[Kale]

How do wisdom teeth get involved here?

[Becky]

Evolution.

[Kale]

Is that a thing?

[Becky]

Yes. I'm not saying. I'm not talking out of my ass.

[Kale]

Well, the ape family.

[Becky]

What do you mean? I was. Are they not apes?

[Alessandra]

Yeah, but there's different. Like, there's Iranian tanks, there's gorillas, there's.

[Becky]

You know, are they all part of the ape family?

[Kale]

I have no clue.

[Becky]

Well, I all. I say all that to say that she's on to something. And I also don't want to pay taxes. So maybe can I do reverse evolution and stop talking? Maybe.

[Kale]

I think it would be. You wouldn't have to pay taxes if you stopped talking.

[Becky]

Neon Neanderthal and human. Actually, I evolved from the Neanderthals. It's on my 23andMe. Like, I'm like, heavily Neanderthal. I look like it too.

[Kale]

It is 8am it is too.

[Becky]

Like, have you seen Raymond? I really think that he was like, second generation Neanderthal.

[Alessandra]

They're priming makes. Oh, I wanted to say that, but I needed to double check.

[Becky]

Okay, if you guys can't hear Alessandra, she said the primate family. Then what's a marsupial? A sloth. Oh, with a thumb. So like a koala. A sloth.

[Kale]

Sometimes I feel really dumb.

[Becky]

Glider. Okay, let's play trivia.

[Kale]

No, it's too early.

[Becky]

Maybe the next episode I asked if a piercer could come to the space today so that I could get my nipples pierced.

[Kale]

You already had them pierced.

[Becky]

I know.

[Kale]

I love a nipple piercing.

[Becky]

I think they look so pretty.

[Kale]

They're so hot. Pretty?

[Becky]

Yeah, like, pretty.

[Kale]

Okay. Not the term and or word I would use, but yeah.

[Becky]

You don't think pretty is like a. Like, I think they're pretty. Like if you see a nipple that's pierced, it's like, wow, that's so pretty.

[Alessandra]

Yeah, they're Mother Nature's accessory. I love nipples.

[Becky]

It's like. I love nipples. You know, I pinch them a lot.

[Kale]

I have been exploring nipples lately because.

[Becky]

Do you ever pinch Leah's? Don't pinch them while she's pregnant, though. Do you ever get cuteness, aggression, and you just want to pinch her?

[Alessandra]

I really need to hear Becky say what she's gonna say, though. Exploring nipples lately?

[Becky]

Yeah. What? We're gonna. Exploring nipples in what way?

[Kale]

Because Leah is.

[Becky]

Oh, is she lactating?

[Kale]

She's getting collagen and so she has the nipple size thing. Oh, what did she.

[Becky]

Collagen?

[Kale]

Oh, my God. It is too early.

[Becky]

Whose idea was to podcast at 8am?

[Alessandra]

Mine.

[Becky]

Oh.

[Kale]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Colostrum. Did you do that?

[Becky]

Remember when you took a breast milk shot at Buffalo Wild Wings?

[Kale]

Oh, my God.

[Becky]

I pumped into a cup.

[Kale]

This was when. This was. Lincoln was just born.

[Becky]

Lincoln was just born. And I pumped my breast milk into a cup and Becky and our friend, our other friend at the time took a shot of my breast milk, like, chugged it.

[Kale]

It tasted like moth.

[Becky]

What?

[Kale]

No, like. Not moth. Like, like. What's the word? Yeah, like mothy. Is that the word?

[Becky]

I've never. What is that?

[Kale]

Like, is that right?

[Alessandra]

No, I don't know what you're trying to say.

[Becky]

Like a cotton ball.

[Kale]

No, like.

[Becky]

I think like mothballs. Moth is a bug.

[Kale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It tastes like Molly.

[Alessandra]

You're talking about mothballs. Like, it tastes how it smells.

[Kale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Like, cilantro tastes like stink bugs.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Like, it's like that old lady. Like.

[Kale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. I feel so seen right now.

[Becky]

Wow. Are you okay?

[Kale]

No, because, like, some things, like, taste how things smell and you. Like, it's not like I've eaten a stink bug, but that's what cilantro tastes like.

[Becky]

Security had a drink the other day that tasted like sushi.

[Kale]

No.

[Alessandra]

Security claimed that Matcha tasted like sushi. And it did.

[Becky]

And it did. No, no, it did.

[Alessandra]

I didn't taste it because I didn't.

[Becky]

Taste it at first, and then I drank it again and I was like.

[Kale]

No, this is already collectively agreed here that we don't like matcha.

[Alessandra]

No, we tried to. A strawberry one.

[Becky]

Security wanted to try it.

[Leah]

Security.

[Kale]

You are out. I don't know how we got here. I don't know if this was an ending. I just want to know. Thank you, Alessandra. I really feel validated in that.

[Alessandra]

You're welcome.

[Kale]

How you said that. Next item on the list. Their Internet went wild.

[Becky]

Whose?

[Kale]

Mine. Oh, of me. Burning the weeds. Did you see how I burned the weeds?

[Becky]

No. I don't think you're supposed to burn anything. The environmentalists are going to come for you.

[Kale]

It was. I did it after it rained, so everything was wet.

[Becky]

Is that a thing?

[Kale]

Yeah. So it was safe. Like, there was nothing that could burn down.

[Becky]

So what did they say? They said, don't do that.

[Kale]

No, they all loved it. They said. I know. I didn't know this was an option. I have weeds by my pool, like on brick, and weeds on my stone. And I. I bought a blowtorch and I burned them all.

[Becky]

Do you remember when you bought me.

[Kale]

A leaf blower for your wedding gifts? Dude, it is the best practical wedding gift.

[Becky]

I would agree. You used to use it so much. It was a backpack, leaf blower.

[Kale]

You had just kind of house.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So, like, it was with a backyard.

[Becky]

So, like, if you know someone that has weeds and you need to get them a gift, buy them a blowtorch. Do you know what I mean?

[Kale]

Yeah, I do. It worked really well.

[Becky]

Did you link the blowtorch? Because you could have made so much money.

[Kale]

I think that my Amazon storefront is fake. I've never made a single dollar off.

[Becky]

It's pennies for sure.

[Kale]

I've never made a single penny. Yeah, but my concern is that it shows. Link clicks.

[Becky]

You better call Amazon.

[Kale]

And it's zero.

[Becky]

Jeff, where you at? Always.

[Kale]

He's busy.

[Becky]

With what?

[Kale]

Katy Perry.

[Becky]

They're together?

[Kale]

What? Oh, no.

[Alessandra]

In their rocket.

[Becky]

What?

[Kale]

Oh, my God.

[Becky]

Anyway, you're starting rumors that Katy Perry and Jeff Bezos are dating.

[Kale]

No. Honestly.

[Becky]

Should we start that rumor?

[Kale]

No. Can we bring this conversation back to two things?

[Becky]

Yeah, what is it?

[Kale]

Number one. Did you know.

[Becky]

Oh, my God.

[Kale]

What?

[Becky]

What are you gonna.

[Kale]

Did you know that there's no entrance from your vagina into your abdomen?

[Becky]

Yes.

[Kale]

What?

[Becky]

Rebecca, be so for real.

[Alessandra]

You just said the ape family.

[Becky]

That wasn't far off.

[Kale]

Did you know that there's no entrance? Like.

[Becky]

Like, that's why when I stick my.

[Kale]

Bed go inside your vagina. It can't go any further.

[Becky]

If my Benoit balls get stuck in my vagina, you just squat down and they come out. They don't go up into your stomach.

[Alessandra]

That's like three and a half inches up there.

[Becky]

You can't fit a lot of dick in there either.

[Kale]

Okay, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm just saying. Apparently my health education classes weren't really good when I was.

[Becky]

Why would you.

[Kale]

I thought that, like, something could, like, go up into your body.

[Becky]

Of an aerial disease maybe. Like, where have you been for the past 34 years?

[Kale]

I tried finding leave Leah's cervix and I was so confused.

[Becky]

Is the cervix not right before the vagina? Like, what is the opening called? What? It's like your cervix and then your.

[Alessandra]

Vagina, it's inside of inside too, so.

[Becky]

Yeah, yeah, no, but like the vagina is the canal, right?

[Kale]

So like.

[Alessandra]

You mean like pastor vulva.

[Becky]

Your vulva is like on the outside, right?

[Alessandra]

Like you have. Yeah, your vulva's Your lips.

[Becky]

Not me.

[Kale]

Like, just.

[Becky]

I have no crucifying you and then like not knowing. Yeah, no, there's the labia majora. Malay. The labia menorah.

[Alessandra]

You also have. But that's on the inside of the lips. So you have the outer lips, right. That fold on the inside of the lips right where the clit and everything is. And then you have the canal.

[Becky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In.

[Alessandra]

Up in there you have your cervix.

[Becky]

Your uterus, your fallopian tubes and your ovaries.

[Alessandra]

Cervix is like the end.

[Kale]

Are you a? Are you a.

[Becky]

That's what I meant. Before your vagina. Okay. Should be required, I feel.

[Kale]

Anyway, so if you're listening and you didn't know there's no entrance into your body from your vagina. You learn, love that.

[Alessandra]

You thought you were going to cut the very.

[Becky]

You thought you were gonna tell me something I didn't know.

[Kale]

I thought I was gonna shock at least one person.

[Becky]

No.

[Leah]

So my cats are spoiled. Like, full on. Will refuse to eat when vibes are off. They eat breakfast, they eat lunch like clockwork. Which is how I ended up doing a full on taste test with multiple bowls, their old food in one, smalls in the other. And no joke, they walked over, sniffed around and immediately went for smalls like they were judging me for ever serving them that other nonsense. Smalls is fresh, protein packed cat food made with ingredients you'd actually recognize. No Mystery meat. No sketchy additives, just real food delivered to your door since switching their coats are shinier, they have more energy and maybe tmi. But the litter box situation is way less offensive. Even my friends have noticed. For a limited time only, because you are a karma and chaos listener, you get 60% off your first Smalls order, plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com karma that's 60% off when you head to smalls dot com karma plus free shipping. Again, that's smalls dot com karma.

[Kale]

This.

[Leah]

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[Kale]

Anyway, my next concern is people are like very they monitor how much babies eat, right? Like you're supposed to give them X amount of ounces at every hour, blah, blah, blah blah. How the do you know how much a baby's eating when they're breastfeeding? And why is it like so what.

[Becky]

I learned from breastfeeding is that typically breast milk metabolizes faster, like quicker than formula because it's like a whole food. Not like a whole food, but like it's like, like pure basically. So it the baby is going to go through breast milk typically faster than a baby goes through formula. And I think by the time that the stomach empties, like it's just like an average.

[Kale]

So like it's the size of a Little bean.

[Becky]

So what I was taught when I was breastfeeding was that typically it's like you would average 1 ounce of breast milk per hour. So like, if you're going to be gone for eight hours, or if Leah's gonna be gone for eight hours, she would pump 8 to 10 ounces for the eight hours. That never worked for me. Like for Lincoln, it was like any of it. No, you. It's gonna go by baby. Obviously it's gonna go by your individual child. Yeah, but people will say that.

[Kale]

Yeah, but like it's just like everything is so unbelievable because everyone isn't gonna produce as much milk. And then like a baby's can be latched forever drinking and then it's.

[Becky]

And then they'll have opinions about that too. And then there's cluster feeding and then sometimes you just have them on your boob all the time. Like I did with Lincoln.

[Kale]

Yeah. So you know, I just don't believe it.

[Becky]

Okay, well, I'm.

[Kale]

You know what that. Why do we think babies spit up all the time? Because their stomach is like this big and they're overfed a lot of times.

[Becky]

That'S like formula fed babies are gen. Generally more overfed babies than a breast. A breastfed baby, because when they stop sucking it, like literally cuts it off where like a. A bottle, it'll just keep. And they don't know how to stop the flow the same way.

[Kale]

And why do we feed them so much out of a bottle? Why don't we do.

[Becky]

Because everyone overfeeds. It's just a thing in America.

[Kale]

I don't know, Lincoln, I remember you being so upset and not wanting to tell people that you weren't breastfeeding anymore.

[Becky]

Yeah. I made it to one year and I was stressed because I didn't want to be judged for not breast.

[Kale]

Yeah, I remember that you were.

[Becky]

But I made it the year. I feel like a year is good enough. But I feel like then when I was in the breastfeeding feeding community, it was like the longer the better. So when I was like, like mentally I was over the breastfeeding cuz like how many I don't. Did you. Did you breastfeed at all? The mental toll that breastfeeding takes on you is like at first it's all great and good. Did you breastfeed by the end of the year? I was like crying because I was like, I cannot do this anymore. I had a baby attached to me all the time. It was like night day and then he had to fall asleep with me. So he needed to be on my boob to fall asleep. So, like, there is pros and cons to breastfeeding. Obviously had a. A bond with Lincoln that Javi never could have had at that time. But, like, it was rough and, like, if you're not pumping enough, then you're stressed out because the baby's upset because you're not producing, you're not pumping. You're not. If you don't eat there. And then I started getting off the black market to be able to produce more milk.

[Kale]

What do you mean, off the black?

[Becky]

There's something called. I think it's called Dom. Dom Peridone or Don. It's like a perion. It's some kind of, like, pill that, like, makes you produce more milk.

[Alessandra]

I might not leave that in.

[Becky]

Oh, I don't. Don't. They don't sell it anymore. Like, they don't sell it at all. But I was, like, ordering it. You could use, like, fenu Greek lactation cookies. Like, none of that stuff was working for me, so I, like, went and got stuff that I. I don't even know if it was. I mean, whatever. I was desperate.

[Kale]

Yeah, we're not. We're not relying on breastfeeding in the. In our.

[Becky]

And you can supplement. Some people will have comments about that, like, you shouldn't supplement. You shouldn't do get nipple confusion.

[Kale]

Everyone should shut the up.

[Becky]

I agree. I agree. But if I had another baby, I would not breastfeed because it is the toll, the mental toll that it took on me. No.

[Kale]

Yeah, yeah. Not for us in our house. Well, we don't know what we're gonna do. We'll let you know next week, I guess. Isn't that crazy?

[Becky]

Next week is. Yeah.

[Kale]

I mean, hopefully.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Alessandra]

Because this doesn't come out next week. This comes out the following week.

[Becky]

Oh, so when this airs, you'll have a baby.

[Kale]

This airs. I will. I will be a mom.

[Becky]

Do you have, like. Do you know what the baby's gonna call you? No, like, just. Just see what happens.

[Kale]

Yeah, I. I think we're just gonna see what happens. I. I see Leah as, like, a mommy, but, like. And me as, like, a mom, but, like, also, who knows? Maybe. Maybe my kid will call me senor.

[Becky]

I love that. What if. What if Bex called you dad? Would you be pissed?

[Kale]

I think it's probably going to be a running joke. I want to be pissed.

[Becky]

No. You're literally wearing a shirt that says dad Bod.

[Kale]

Yeah, I'm wearing a. That says dad Bod. So Kale has X ray visions. You can see through my shirt.

[Becky]

No, I just saw you naked before this.

[Kale]

I don't really care. I could. I said senior. I don't know if I've talked about this. I called him Junior sometimes. That's why it's.

[Becky]

People get so upset when my kids, like you said, call it your Bex. Calling you dad would probably be a running joke. I agree. My kids, sometimes, when they're joking, call me Kale.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

And other people get so upset and offended by that, and I absolutely do not. I think it's funny and it doesn't bother me at all. And I don't think it's any sign of disrespect at all.

[Kale]

I called my dad Larry.

[Alessandra]

It's literally your name.

[Becky]

Yeah, it's my literal name. And mom and dad are made up, so it's like, I don't. There's nothing that upsets me about it. And it's always like, in a joking way. So I, like, don't care. Like, Lux will be like, mom, Mom. If I don't answer him, he'll be like, kale. You know what I mean? Yeah, Kale. And it's so. It's to me, it's like, funny or. I don't know.

[Kale]

What do you think that my kids should call me?

[Becky]

I think your dad, your. Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. Yeah. Sorry about that. I don't know. Call you Senior because Beck's Junior. You know what I mean?

[Kale]

Yeah, I like that. Senor, did you see the hat that I got? No. Natasha got me a hat that says Beck Senior on it.

[Alessandra]

Oh, that's so cute.

[Becky]

That's really cute.

[Kale]

I thought so too. One more thing. It is very funny. You know how there's different sides of Tick Tock?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

So there's a crossover happening right now, which is funny to me because when I first started this journey of parenthood, I was. And also being in the queer community, there's always been two separate sides of ftm. So when I see ftm, I think of female to male always. Like, that's a transgender term. That's always what I say. But first time moms also use it as a hashtag. And the worlds are colliding on Tick Tock right now because of the hashtag. Like being put on a video, like a first time mom putting it on it. But they're getting put on the queer side of TikTok because of that. And, like, it's very funny. It's a. It's a very interesting crossover to be in because like what Anytime I see it, I'm like, oh, they're trans. That's so cool. And then I'm like, oh no. They're just a first time mom. My bad. It can be interesting place. Does anyone watch? Do you before we go. Before we go into is a karma is a cast. I'm gonna. You're not. You're gonna say no. But. But did you watch the first two seasons of Jenny and Georgia at all? No, I just finished the first. The third season I cried so much.

[Becky]

Elliot loves that show. He told me to watch it. He said I could relate to it. Why? Why can I relate to that?

[Kale]

I I could see you guys relating to is just like a really powerful relationship between like the mom and the daughter. But it. It like there's like. Like I don't want to say lines are crossed of just is it friendship more than it is parenthood like parenting? And it's. This season was wild because you start seeing Georgia become her. You know what I'm talking about?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

And so mom.

[Alessandra]

Yes, yes.

[Kale]

No, Jenny. Sorry I said that wrong. Jenny become Georgia a little bit in her maneuvers and like what she's doing. Like. Like plotting other people. But this season like me up like I was like crying a lot in it.

[Becky]

Did you tell Elliot you watched it? No, but I should text him.

[Kale]

I will.

[Becky]

He'll freak out.

[Kale]

You should watch it.

[Becky]

I'll watch it. He said that. You said that.

[Kale]

But I don't want. But I don't want to you to think that because there are some really up parts of Georgia. Like it's a little bit manipulative how she just hurt like what she is the being she is. But. So I don't want you to think that.

[Becky]

That that's what you're saying.

[Kale]

Yeah. I mean Georgia is calculated beyond measure. But it's all with the intent of keeping her kids safe and with her. But it gets a little narcissistic I think this season anyway we have an.

[Becky]

Is it karma or is it chaos? Dear Becky and Kale, My husband is getting us into some lesbian and I can think of no one better than to come to about it than the queens of lesbian. For a small backstory on My husband and I. We are 26 years old. We met in high school and have been together for eight years and we have sons together. My husband comes home from work the other morning and tells me he has something he needs to talk to me about. He has an iced coffee in hand that he picked up on his way home. So I know it's about to be something wild. He proceeds to tell me that a woman at work asked him if he would consider donating his swimmers to her and her wife. When I tell you, my jaw dropped. He has told me about this couple previously, but I had never met them. They're also friends with a few people that my husband works with and I'm also friends with, but our paths had never crossed. I asked him what he was thinking and he said he would consider doing it it they have spent a lot of money trying and nothing has worked so far for them. He asked me my opinion and I'm actually surprised that I feel like this is a good idea. My husband is a typical macho guy, so the fact that he's even considering it tells me he really wants to do this for them. My thoughts are I wouldn't really like it if he was just going out and donating to whoever, but if this is a couple he knows personally and trusts to be good parents, I honestly feel okay with it. I just keep thinking having a family is such a basic want out of life. If he's able to give them them, if he's able to help them with that, who am I to stop that? My friends have their own opinion. They think it would be weird for this couple to have a child that is biologically a sibling to our kids. Other people have said we should be getting paid for it, but he does not want to do that and neither do I. What are your thoughts? Should we get into some lesbian? Would it be awkward? Would it be weird to donate to a couple, you know, in real life and would possibly see the child grow up? Love you guys so much and thank you for reading. I say do it.

[Kale]

I mean obviously this is something very relevant to my life and personal to my life. We this is kind of the second time we're reading through. The first time my eyes did start getting wet again reading through it because like how the like the girl that submitted recognizing that it is something important to him because he is that like saying he's like this macho guy and he wouldn't ask unless it was something that was important to him. And it's just a beautiful thing thing to think beyond yourself. Like you have these two people that are trying intently to create a family. I mean I think that the, the standard norm of queer relationships are going to change and evolve. There's a lot of studies around known donor and like the ethical like standing behind it. I think that you should do it but with just like a couple precautions of making sure you get a lawyer, because that's really important. If you aren't going, like, a medical route and you're doing at home, like, at least do the genetic testing to make sure you get that out of the way. And quite honestly, like, you don't make that much money donating, so you're not missing out if you were doing it some other way. But the only expectation is the queer couple to pay for the donation process, the. The lawyer process, any fees like that. But I would do it.

[Becky]

I would also. I also. If you and your husband are aligned on him.

[Kale]

Kids already.

[Becky]

If you and your husband are aligned on him not getting paid, I don't think you should consider what anyone else has to say about that, because not everyone is doing every single thing for money. Yeah. And I just think you're not going to make that much money. Let them spend the money on, like, the lawyer or whatever. Not paying for the sperm.

[Kale]

Yeah. And like. Like, for me, it was important for me to. To like, we even considered using just Leah's eggs and having my brother. Like, if I am going to know the person that is going to give me this gift to be able to create this family, then, like, I'm gonna do it with intent with someone that, like, I want my kid to know.

[Becky]

Right.

[Kale]

Right. Like, I'm proud for my kid to know our donor at some point when. Like, that, that, like, when they build their own relationship. So it's just, if you are both ready for that, if you guys are comfortable. There's no. Like, I plan on raising my child as cousins with his half siblings. And at some point in his life, he is going to start calling them their siblings. Could you imagine having, like, donor siblings and, like, you're eventually going to feel as if you're siblings as, like, an adult in life. Like, you're gonna. I'm gonna be like, oh, yeah, like, that's my donor siblings.

[Becky]

I would disagree.

[Kale]

Really?

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

You wouldn't feel like, as if. If you knew them your whole life, you wouldn't be like, oh, I mean.

[Becky]

I guess if you knew them your whole. Not your whole life.

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Like, I know that I have siblings in the Philippines, but, like, they're not my siblings. Like, they are, but they're not.

[Kale]

Every time you talk, it's just like, you've said that before, so it's not that surprising. But.

[Becky]

But I understand what you mean.

[Kale]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Becky]

I wasn't thinking about the. The part where you said they knew each other. No, I would agree with that because if you're close enough to be be cousins, who cares? Then you're like, okay, more family. I think that people get so caught up in like what things are supposed to be based on societal norms from decades ago. And that's where it's like your village is not necessarily the people that you are blood related to. And your village can be, you know, and your family can be non traditional and it can still be a family. And that doesn't mean it's unstable or not normal.

[Kale]

Yeah. I mean, and just have the conversation.

[Becky]

Yeah.

[Kale]

Expectation conversation. Like.

[Becky]

Like my biggest fear for this situation. And it is valid. But I don't think you can play the what if game. My therapist said to stop doing that. But it's like the one thing that's like, okay, but what if you guys get into a fight later on and then it affects the relationship between the couple that is raising the child and then the sperm donor. But you could play the what if game in all cases, in every aspect of life. And so that actually wasn't brought up at all. So it sounds like they are on board. I would just not listen to what your friends are saying. Do what you and your husband have.

[Kale]

And meet the people. She hasn't even met him yet.

[Becky]

Oh, true. Just circle back with us. Let us know.

[Leah]

Circle back.

[Kale]

If vibes are good, help help them out. They're just trying to. They're just trying to be moms.

[Becky]

Yeah. That's cute.

[Kale]

I love that.

[Becky]

You know?

[Kale]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Where can people find you on socials?

[Kale]

Everyone can find me at hater25 on all socials. Hoping that Bex is born actually on the 25th. That would be really cool. Listen to for the haters new episode every Monday. Thanks for being here, guys. Where they can't. Where can they find you?

[Becky]

Everywhere. Mostly in the swamp.

[Kale]

Oh.

[Becky]

And that's it. See ya.