← Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:12]
B
Welcome to karma and Chaos. Karma Rouge. We have a special guest, Enrique today. I am so sorry that y' all couldn't be here in person, because that's what I was hoping for. But I came across Enrique's video on TikTok. People were tagging me in it because you wanted to come on one of the podcasts. And so Becky was like, let's have him on Karma and Chaos. And so here we are.
- [00:33]
A
Let's first let him introduce himself, and we'll go from there. Tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you live. Are you gay or straight?
- [00:44]
C
Are you gay or straight? Is crazy. Becky. Becky with the good hair. Oh, my God. We're starting there already. Okay, so I'm Enrique. I'm 31, I'm from Chicago. I'm gay. Proudly gay. Yeah, Love that for me. But I, like, just. I love reality tv. Like, I love online personalities. I think it's so interesting to me, like, especially with TikTok right now. Like, this revolution of like. Or not revolution, but, like, these people that are just coming out of nowhere and have, like, a following and are just insane and have a. I don't know. I started off with, like, my drama or, like, chisme. TikTok. Cheeseman in Spanish just means, like, tea. So, like, I started following Simi. I don't know if you guys know Simi. I heard a name and I posted a video. Like, oh, who's Simi? I didn't think it'd go anywhere. All of a sudden, like, three days later, she's getting arrested. And, like, it's a whole thing. And I'm like, what's going on here? And, like, everyone's telling me to go live. I'm live. And all of a sudden, I'm unlocking every character, every person that she knows. People, like, in the deep cuts, and I'm like, oh, this is insane. Okay, this is awesome.
- [02:00]
B
Poncho. And what's her name? What was her name?
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A
Ash Trevino.
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B
Ash Trevino. It's giving the Poncho Ash Trevino lore.
- [02:09]
C
Yeah. No, actually, though, like, I. And then that's another one that I'm like, I'm posting about. Low key, a little bit high key, a lot of it, But I just, like, find it really entertaining. So with Simi, she got arrested. I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm live with everyone that she knows. And then with Ash, I'm, like, posting about her, and people are watching it, and I'm like, why am I hitting over 80, 000 views? Like, this is crazy. But then I was like, all right, let me take my chance and try to talk to people that I'm, like, really into or that I follow. Like I said, I was raised by mtv. So Teen Mom, Next Room Raiders. We're talking about the challenge. All these shows where I follow all these people and personalities, and I'm like, okay, well, what if I try to make this a thing where I can get to know them?
- [02:57]
B
Okay, well, so you. Do you know Becky from Teen Mom? Like, did you know who she was from?
- [03:05]
C
Becky with the good hair? Yeah.
- [03:06]
B
Yeah. Okay, so you're a big. You were a big Teen mom watcher. So did you watch the OGs? And then you also watch Team Mom 2 or did you start with. With Teen Mom 2? Because there are a lot of people who never watched OG and started with Teen Mom 2.
- [03:20]
C
Well, I started with 16 and pregnant.
- [03:22]
B
Oh. Period. From the original season or from my season two.
- [03:26]
C
Oh. Oh, my gosh. The pop quiz is crazy right now. I. I want to say everything, to be honest. I don't know.
- [03:34]
B
So, like, the original girls that first. First came out were Macy, Amber, Kate, Farah, Ebony. And I want to say there. There were six of them, right? Ebony, you were Team mom, too. I was team mom, too, but I was 16 and pregnant, season two.
- [03:52]
A
Okay, so the seasons of 16 and pregnant were there.
- [03:56]
B
Oh, God. 16 and pregnant were. I think there was like five, maybe more.
- [04:04]
A
More, you know, wow.
- [04:05]
B
Because I was 16 and pregnant 2A, so there was 10 girls in my 2A, and then there was 10 girls in 2B, and then there was three and four and whatever. And then they eventually tried to do Teen Mom 3, which completely flopped. I don't know if you remember that whole situation. So you've been watching for a minute, and I thought. I think in one of the videos you wanted to ask us questions.
- [04:29]
C
Yeah. So, like, I mean, I have a million questions. Don't get me.
- [04:32]
B
Well, ask away.
- [04:34]
C
Yeah. Well, okay. This is actually my biggest curiosity is, like, how did this even get here? Like, when did you. Did you apply? Did you get contacted or what happened in that situation?
- [04:45]
B
Okay, so I. The. There's not really a short answer. There's not like an easy, like, wrap up in a bow type of answer. Some girls were reached out to. Because when they were originally trying to cast for 16 and pregnant, they were, like, putting ads out on, like, Craigslist and, like, shit like that and contacting people for the original girls for my season, they had a casting on MTV.com saying 16 and pregnant now casting. And I saw it and I clicked on it. I had already watched 16 and pregnant season one, I think they were. I think there was like six or seven girls in that, in that season. And I had already started watching that season. I was already pregnant. So when I go on MTV to like look more into this, it said now casting. And I click on it and typed in like a little couple sentences or whatever. And by the time they contacted me, from the time that I sent that email to the time they contacted me, my situation had already changed. So we went through like the whole series from that point. Like the whole it's like questionnaire, psych eval, video interviews. They where they submit, they like send you a list of questions and you have to film yourself and film the other people in your life and stuff like that. And so I went through that whole process and eventually they picked me.
- [06:01]
C
Oh, wow. Wait, okay, this. Right away I need to know what was the voiceover life like? Like? Doing the voiceovers is one of the things I love to talk about because I'm like, I want to narrate a tick tock video for me with like a teen mom voiceover moment.
- [06:15]
B
Like, oh my gosh. Okay. So the voiceovers are, were really frustrating for me because we didn't get to write them ourselves. Like, we were never part of that process. And there was always information in the voiceovers that was not accurate or it was not true, but it, we needed to say it in order for the scenes to make sense to the viewers. And that was in our contracts that we all didn't really know about until later on when we realized what we signed. It was like, you know, they wrote all of them. And then we would go into a studio, whether it was in New York or a local studio or, you know, anything like that. We would have to go in there for hours. We would be in the studio for hours reading these scripts out, and we would read them and they would say, okay, one more time this way. Okay, now say it this way. Okay, now change your tonality on this. And so we'd have to say each line 4, 5, 6, 7 times each. And we would go in and we would have to just read the scripts. And then at some point I started arguing with them because I'm like, this is not factual. This is not accurate. I'm not saying this. This is not how it happened. And so I started giving pushback and, and, and really arguing with the producers about it because they're trying to tell a story that makes sense to the viewers. But that's not how it happened in real life. So I'm getting pissed off because I know how it happened in real life. And saying it this way is basically confirming that this is how it happened when it in fact wasn't. If that makes sense.
- [07:46]
C
Yeah. And actually to tie into the next question, because I'm really curious about this, like, what if you were to give it like a percentage, like, what was scripted? Not scripted, but, like, what was like, kind of pre. Written, pre planned. And what was the more real part of Kill.
- [08:01]
B
Becky can attest to this. And I'll let Becky speak on this as well. Yeah. Nothing was not real. Like, nothing was scripted for Teen Mom. Teen mom itself was one of the least scripted reality shows to ever exist. And when I say that, I mean, like, if they missed an event that happened, we would have to recreate it. One of the most common scenes that I point out for myself is when I told Jordan that I cheated on him with Joe. I told him that in real life off camera. I think I want to say, like a month or two before they actually filmed me telling him he had already known. So when I retell him on camera and I'm very cold and it's like, well, I cheated on you. And he. He is like storming out of the house. He had already known. So it was like nothing was scripted so much as recreated. And then a sec to piggyback off of that was like they would come film scenes when they knew we had stuff going on and then we would have to talk about it. So it be like talking about something happening, the thing happening, and then the aftermath. But they would make sure that they planned around, okay, I'm going to the. I went to go get an IUD after Elliot was born. And so they knew that was coming up. So it wasn't scripted. It was just planned out to make sure that I was doing. And so there was, if you remember, there was like sort of a shift in all of Teen Mom 2, specifically where everyone was sitting on the couch all the time in every scene. And that was like a whole thing where we would never get off the couch. Everyone was on the couches all the time. Because we got so tired of, like, trying to plan shoots around certain things. Because the other thing is that we would have to. I don't know, the gynecologist, for example, if I had an appointment at 12 o', clock, I might actually end up being an hour and a half late to that appointment because of the crew taking time to like, go mic up the office and go in the office and set up and this, that and the third. And so it got to be really chaotic and we were missing appointments, our kids would be late to shit, you know, stuff like that. And so it wasn't to answer your question and put it all in a nice package. It wasn't scripted but it was like planned out.
- [10:14]
A
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- [11:43]
B
Becky, I'm sure that you can add to that.
- [11:46]
A
Anytime people ask me what it was like and like if it was real, that's obviously a very common question that people will will ask about. I always say that it's never like the events themselves are never fake. It's just out of order. Like, like. So when I would go and film, the producers would be like, okay, Becky, can you ask this question about something that happened a month ago to bring up and re spark the conversation. So it's really funny because I've never thought about it like that. Cal of like people seeing you in that, like I remember questions I had to ask you and you would just be so fudgeing, frustrated. And so to the viewer it's like, why is she so like angry and frustrated when you're talking about something serious? And it's like, well, because it happened a month ago and she has to like, we rehash the feelings or like rehash this moment of life again to be able to speak through it. So yeah, there would always be like, the producers would always like, chime in, like, oh, can you ask this now? Like, can you get. And the amount of times that I've seen Kayl rip off her mic and be like, I'm fucking done.
- [12:53]
C
Okay. That was my anxiety with this whole thing because I was like, I know Kale. And I mean, I don't know Kale, but I feel like I know Kale. I'm like, if there's a question she doesn't want to answer, I'm not going to push that or ask it because.
- [13:05]
B
I'm like, oh, no, I don't. I want you to ask me whatever you have, whatever questions you have. But I also am frustrated. I just going back to that space, like in my life, I would be so frustrated because I was pigeonholed into this. Kale has all these baby dads. And so all the planned conversations, every single conversation with a friend, a scene with a friend, was always about a baby dad. It was never about anything else. So I would get so irritated because it's like, like I'm tired of hearing myself talk about this. And now you're gonna have Becky drive in from New Jersey and I gotta rehash something that happened last month that I already moved on from. And now I'm gonna get re pissed off and then I'm gonna have to watch it again when it airs and then I'm gonna have to talk it talk about it again when it goes on the reunion. So it's like I'm traumatized from it happening in real life. I'm traumatized from you bringing it up a month later. I'm traumatized from having to talk about it at the reunion. And then I'm traumatized from re watching it again. So it's like I would be so furious because why are you not talking about all of the things that I'm doing right? And you're just focused on the baby dads. I don't even talk to him on a day to day. I don't know the last time I talked to Joe. You know what I mean?
- [14:10]
C
Okay. And also, like thoughts on Dr. Drew? I don't know if you can talk about this, but I hated the reunions because I could not stand him.
- [14:18]
B
Okay. I need people to let go of the doctor Drew hate and I'm gonna tell you why.
- [14:23]
C
Okay, My bad.
- [14:25]
B
Everyone Looks to let it go because he had a job. His job was to host the reunions. He's not watching 14 fucking episodes of Teen Mom. That is 14 hours of his time to sit there and ask questions. No, he has an earpiece in his ear and he has questions on a card that were already written for him. So he was literally showing up to do a job. With that being said, the little bit of information that he did know, he is one of the only producers that I. And he's not even a producer, the only person I'll say from production hosting anything like that. When I hit my rock bottom depression, like literally gun to my head, suicide depression, Dr. Drew called me on a regular basis to make sure I was okay in real life. Like in real life, I remember being in Texas and Dr. Drew was calling me to check on me, to make sure that I could ask my psychiatrist about meds, to talk about symptoms. Like in real life, off camera, unscripted. And nobody knew. So he's real for that. And no, none of, aside from Larry, no other producers ever did that. So I respect Dr. Drew a lot and I understand that he had a job to do. Like, Nessa probably didn't watch that stuff either. And she was just showing up because she was hired to do the hosting job.
- [15:44]
C
Right.
- [15:45]
B
He's not, I don't know that he's a journalist, so I can't expect him to sit there and have watched 14 episodes or 12 episodes. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [15:53]
C
And I guess, like now that we're talking about mental health, I'm curious, how much do you think the show tied into affecting your mental health versus if you kind of just like lived life, does that make sense? Like, versus it being broadcasted for everyone to witness and see and have opinions?
- [16:09]
B
It's hard to say because I think none of us knew what we were signing up for. With the rise of social media and being on a groundbreaking series like Teen mom changed a lot of people's lives. And I don't think that people fully understand what all went into it. And we were literal children. Like, when I think about my 15 year old son who will be 16 in January, like, I cannot imagine him having a baby and trying to raise a child and go to school and be on tv. Like, I don't even think the producers could have predicted the effects that would, we would, that would have on our mental health. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think anyone was prepared for that. But if you asked MTV or any of the producers for Mental health support, whether it be a therapist to see a psychiatrist, they would set you up with somebody. I don't know that therapy could ever heal the damage that has been done from being on reality tv. And I do, and I've said this for years, and I will say it again. You have to be mentally ill to agree to be on reality tv. And I am, in fact, mentally ill.
- [17:22]
C
I feel that in my heart. I feel, I felt that on my chest. I'm like, yeah, I get that. You get that? And wait, Becky with the good hair. Sorry I keep saying that. But let me know if you don't want me to tell you that. On the other side of things, like, how do you think your life would be different if, let's say the last 10 years were broadcasted on TV?
- [17:40]
A
Oh, man, I def. You know, Kayla and I lived completely different lives, right? Like, and you, you said you're 33. 31.
- [17:51]
C
31. 31.
- [17:53]
A
So like, I lived a very, like, if, if the, the American dream was put into a movie, like, that's how I lived, like my early teens or late teens, right? Like, went to college, partied in college, did all the drinking, like, made all the bad. And like, if my life was filmed, like, I would probably be in jail because, like, it would just encourage like, the drinking and like all the things that, like, that I was, you know, that I was doing. I just was enjoying my life. So my life would be significantly different. I wouldn't have a successful, like, career.
- [18:35]
C
I don't think.
- [18:36]
A
I don't even know if I would have made it through college if I was like, being filmed all the time, because I would have just been addicted to that like, lifestyle. So we would, we lived completely different lives.
- [18:47]
B
Like Jersey Shore style living.
- [18:49]
A
For sure. A hundred. Yeah, thousand percent. I'm also. I stopped dating men in college.
- [18:58]
C
I started dating college.
- [19:01]
B
Started dating men in college. You stopped.
- [19:02]
A
We just did a little swap. So, like, I didn't have the opportunity to like, accidentally get pregnant. Well, before that I did.
- [19:12]
C
Yeah.
- [19:12]
A
That's weird. So my life would have been a lot different, for sure. Like, I think I, like, I wouldn't have. I don't think I would be the person I am today if I was fueled by like, that attention and that like, craving of everything that like, comes from it. Because I would have succumbed to it. Like, I love attention, so I would have liked, continue to do everything I could to like, get that attention. I'm the youngest of five, so I.
- [19:41]
B
Love the self awareness, truly.
- [19:43]
C
No, I totally get that. I'M the youngest and I, like, I crave validation through, like, others people. Like, other people's, like, attention.
- [19:50]
A
People would always, that would always be like a running topic of, like, was I, like, using Kale as a friend throughout those years to like, grab that? And like, I constantly always said, like, two things can be true at once. Like, I love the attention that I got from being friends with Kale. But like, I, I also loved and cared for her as, like, as a person and as a friend simultaneously. Right.
- [20:12]
B
Like, even there's a difference between you and other people who just like the attention because you are self aware of it. Like, you're self aware surrounding that whole situation. But, like, I also know that you care about me as a person where, like, other people who have come into my life who, like the attention of being my friend, I know that they don't actually care about me outside of surface level, but I try to ignore it, hoping that maybe it'll change. And that never works out. Well.
- [20:43]
A
No, never works out.
- [20:47]
B
Wait, Enrique, I know that you said that you started dating men in college. So, like, could you rank my baby dads actually.
- [20:56]
C
Look wise?
- [20:58]
B
Yeah, like Smash or Pass.
- [21:01]
C
Okay, okay. Name them and I'll tell you. Let's go.
- [21:04]
B
Okay, we'll go in order. Joe.
- [21:06]
C
Pass.
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B
Javi.
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C
Smash. Just as long as he's like. As long as he's quiet, as long as he doesn't talk. Huh?
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B
Chris.
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C
Are we talking? Chris? Like in front of the cameras, just flicking everyone off. Chris.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Smash.
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B
I knew it. Okay. And Elijah.
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C
Smash.
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B
Oh, interesting. Okay, Okay. I mean, that's not. I feel like we're. We're 54. Three for three for four.
- [21:40]
C
I'm like, well, also true. Two things can be true at once. Like you said.
- [21:48]
B
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- [21:50]
A
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- [23:15]
C
And now that we're on this topic, like, what's your biggest green flag? Like, what is the one thing about someone where you're like, immediately, like, yes, I'm in.
- [23:22]
A
I don't know if she's the right person to ask about what green flags.
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B
Look like, but I've never seen a green flag.
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C
I'm thinking of that movie the Bird Bug, where, like, they can't see the whole time. I'm like.
- [23:36]
B
I'm like a bull, and I just charge at red flags.
- [23:40]
C
Okay, so we're the same person.
- [23:42]
B
Yeah. If they're not good for me, head first, dive in. Head first in. You know what I mean?
- [23:48]
C
Okay, so what's your. What's your favorite red flag?
- [23:51]
B
My favorite red flag.
- [23:57]
C
Becky, you too?
- [23:58]
B
I like men that look like they cheat for a living.
- [24:05]
A
Carol, I'm so sick and tired of you.
- [24:11]
C
Like, you're mad that I'm out with my friends and I'm not with you. That's my favorite red flag.
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B
Yeah, like, what I want you to be, Becky, you're old and married. Please, like, please.
- [24:27]
C
What'S your favorite red flag?
- [24:31]
A
I don't like red flags.
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B
You like straight women. You don't even like gay. Oh, red flag.
- [24:37]
C
Wait, Becky, are we the same person?
- [24:40]
A
Is that a red flag?
- [24:42]
B
What?
- [24:43]
A
Is that a red flag?
- [24:44]
B
It's a fucking huge red flag. It's like the fucking red flag for the bulls. Like, you might as well go to Spain.
- [24:50]
A
If I didn't pursue women that never experienced being with another woman, I wouldn't be married right now. So.
- [25:00]
B
Okay, but it's still a red flag.
- [25:05]
A
Everyone deserves to have a little fun.
- [25:06]
B
Kale, One time when I think this was, like, maybe 2019, something like that, I. Me and Becky are in a hotel room. I'm like, I'm straight. Why have you never tried to be with me? And she said, because you're too easy.
- [25:23]
C
That's Becky's red flag then.
- [25:25]
A
And I stand on that. So that's your, like, way before 2019.
- [25:33]
B
Oh, whatever.
- [25:34]
C
Kayla's, like, a little offended. She's like, Hello.
- [25:36]
A
Like, she's always been offended. She's grown out of it, though.
- [25:39]
B
I think my whole life is offend. Is offended.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah.
- [25:43]
C
I mean, people speculate.
- [25:46]
B
Did people speculate one time?
- [25:49]
A
Yeah, it was planned.
- [25:52]
B
It was not planned.
- [25:54]
A
Oh, the speculations. Yes, it was.
- [25:57]
B
What are you talking about?
- [25:59]
A
Like, people thinking that we were dating.
- [26:01]
C
I did.
- [26:03]
B
Wait.
- [26:03]
A
Yeah.
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B
That was planned.
- [26:05]
A
Yeah. There. We've talked about this before. There was something happening. And you were like, we need to feed into this.
- [26:11]
B
And you were like, we should make out. And I was like, okay. And then we made out.
- [26:19]
A
We needed to. To steer the ship and to. And to avoid people looking at this. So let's let them. Get them to look at this.
- [26:28]
B
Listen, I don't remember that part, but I believe you.
- [26:32]
A
Yeah. Why do you think the whole marriage boot camp was about. Am I the reason that you and Javi got divorced?
- [26:38]
B
I thought it just naturally went that way.
- [26:41]
A
Oh, my God. The answer is no. We've never dated. We've never had a romantic relationship. We've never had, like, any type of.
- [26:49]
B
We've never seen.
- [26:51]
A
No. That would be funny, though.
- [26:56]
B
With no rhythm, trying to scissor, like.
- [27:01]
C
Okay, wait. This is actually a good. Okay, so my. My best friend, shout out to Casey. She's newly. She has a girlfriend now, so she's, like, having her first gay relationship. And we talked about scissoring. And I'm like, so how does this work? Like, I don't want to watch the videos or anything, but I'm like. She's like, I'm nervous. I'm like, I don't.
- [27:21]
B
I don't think scissoring is, like, a staple in a lot of lesbian relationships. I think that some do it, but most don't, is my guess.
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A
I think it's like a 50 for 50 drop.
- [27:32]
B
No way. No way.
- [27:33]
C
They went dick shopping.
- [27:36]
B
Oh, good.
- [27:36]
A
Oh, that's fun.
- [27:37]
B
That's a good time.
- [27:39]
C
I know.
- [27:39]
A
Yeah.
- [27:40]
C
Yes to the dick.
- [27:41]
B
But you can get clone a willy and clone your own.
- [27:45]
A
I don't know. What? Like, maybe I should look up how people do it online. I don't. I just know how I do it. So, like, I don't. Like, I don't know if that's universally how everyone does it.
- [27:56]
B
Is the question.
- [27:58]
A
For sure.
- [27:59]
B
Oh, you do? Okay. Not all lesbians are scissoring, though. Like, I hate to tell you that. You wouldn't know because you're mostly with straight women.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah.
- [28:08]
C
You're telling me this. I'm like, I. I don't think I'm ever gonna Find out.
- [28:12]
A
Tell Casey to explore it.
- [28:13]
B
Can men scissor? Like, could they do that?
- [28:17]
C
No, because that's just. You're rubbing butt.
- [28:19]
B
The angle would be off. Okay. I was just wondering.
- [28:21]
A
Not rubbing butts.
- [28:24]
B
Balls on balls.
- [28:25]
C
Yeah, Balls on balls.
- [28:28]
A
No, you're not laying. You're not laying down, facing against each other. No, but, I mean, you're not on opposite sides.
- [28:37]
B
I was just wondering. Okay. Same level of questioning as, why does the earth have a sky and the moon does not? You just never know.
- [28:46]
A
I guess so now. Anyway. Next question, please.
- [28:50]
C
Yeah, I was gonna say I have more questions than answers now. I was gonna ask who's more chaotic? And I think it's Becky.
- [28:56]
B
No. Yeah, it's definitely Becky.
- [29:02]
A
It's not. Kale is a. Kale says more unhinged things. I. What?
- [29:09]
B
I don't say anything unhinged.
- [29:10]
A
Okay. Kale says more unhinged things. I am a little. I think I'm just a little bit more blunt than she is.
- [29:17]
C
Okay.
- [29:17]
A
So it makes it the perfect pair, you know?
- [29:21]
C
Perfect pair. I have a question about how you. Okay, okay. I don't know if you want to answer this, but did you see that Janelle responded to one of my videos?
- [29:31]
B
Wait, I think I did, but what was it? What was she saying? Because it said something about Janelle entered the chat. What was it?
- [29:36]
C
Yeah, so what happened was. I think I was talking about. Or someone was coming for you about, like, how you're. The way you treat your children is really specific to the baby daddy. And then Janelle is just a terrible mom. And I'm like, okay, one of these is true. But I was just like. I was telling Janelle. I'm like, I don't. What they said about Kale is not rooted in facts. These are people just having their own weird opinions. Versus, like, with Janelle, it's what we saw on TV with her choosing men over her kids. From what we saw. Right? Like, I'm not trying to talk smack. Like, my response was not even like, no, I'm gonna tell everybody that was negative.
- [30:13]
B
I'm. I plan on talking smack. So.
- [30:15]
C
Okay. Perfect. Awesome.
- [30:17]
B
Yeah. I. The difference between Janelle and I, because she also has three baby dads. The difference is that while I am not good at relationships and I have had several and did not learn my lesson until very late in the game, I would not choose men over my children. Where we have seen Janelle choose men over her children. So there is a huge difference. At the point that this relationship is no longer serving me, I move on and people do not like that. People are a victim of their circumstances. They get into these relationships where they're miserable and they stay there and they're mad at me because I get the fuck out now. That being said, do I need to introduce my children to everybody I'm dating? No, I do not. That is obviously something that I did not do better in. And then second to that, I just feel like the whole this is the first time I've ever heard someone comment or suggest that I treat my kids differently according to their father, which is interesting to me because if that were to be true, which it's not, I would treat the ones that don't have good dads.
- [31:25]
A
I feel like you, I would love.
- [31:26]
B
Them more and over compensate, but I would not hate them because the dad hates me. Does that make sense?
- [31:31]
C
Yeah.
- [31:32]
A
But I, I would argue that you like, you do like, cater to your kids a little differently because of their needs. Like, you're being a better like, because of like the, you know, what they go through at their dad's house. You cater and nurture them a little differently because of that.
- [31:52]
B
Like, I still lay to go to bed on and off. I still lay with Lincoln, Lux and Creed. But I also recognize right now, for example, for Lincoln, like his dad living in another state is very new, that's only a couple months old. So I'm going to cater to that. Not because of my relationship with his dad or how his dad treats me. It's just like I recognize that he needs more comfort right now. Or for Lux and Creed, the same thing. They. I have them 90, 95% of the time. I'm going to cater to them differently. But it's not about was the comment saying, like, how their dads treat me or based on my relationship with the dad.
- [32:28]
C
And that's the thing that, like threw me off. The whole comment was based. There was just that it was like, oh, she treats them differently depending on the baby daddy. And I'm like, this is rooted in nothing. You have no fat.
- [32:39]
A
Life can never just be rainbows and butterflies.
- [32:42]
B
You know, you don't even go here.
- [32:48]
C
Okay, Becky, question. How have you seen kale, like grow over time, as you've seen, I mean, with recording and then being off of Teen mom and now podcasting and like, you're super uber successful Kale. Like, I'm commending you for all of this. It's amazing what you've done with.
- [33:03]
B
Am I? Because yesterday, two days ago, I called Kristen crying, talking about, well, what if I lose everything Tomorrow. How am I going to fuck up?
- [33:12]
C
You wouldn't. The thing is, like, your hustle is compliment.
- [33:15]
A
Thank you. Say thank you. Take a compliment.
- [33:18]
B
Thank you. But I also am concerned. You know what I mean? Like, both true.
- [33:23]
A
Yeah. But any person that is successful, that has things to lose is always concern. Like people. People aren't concerned about losing nothing if they don't have something to lose.
- [33:33]
B
But you know what? It's so interesting because I've had that mentality all the years I was on Teen mom was like, this show could go away tomorrow and I have to figure out what is next. So that's why I got a degree. That's why I started podcasting. That's why I did all these things. But a lot of these girls, they have nothing.
- [33:47]
A
Yeah.
- [33:52]
B
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- [35:02]
A
He asked that question, like, first two. Two things that popped into my mind. One, Kayl's always been a good mom, and that's the only reason that I've ever, like, consistently supported her and all the craziness that she has done. Two, she's always been like, business thinking forward. Even if it was an mlm.
- [35:26]
B
I have to say that I just lost my very last long standing MLM because I Didn't do something on the website, and it was just, like, sitting there.
- [35:35]
C
But anyway, different idea of MLM then, because MLM on Tick tock means men liking men. So I was so confused, right? I was like, oh, it's like a.
- [35:45]
A
It's like a pyramid scheme.
- [35:47]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:48]
A
But it's. It's like being around. It's been really. I think that this version of kale is my favorite version of kale, and it, like, just kind of grows every year. We've been open, like, had open conversations, like, being around her and being friends with her back in 2018, and, you know, those years, there was just so much chaos surrounding her life that, like, it was a lot even being an outsider kind of stepping in and not just around, like, baby dads and things like that, like, friendships that she had around her, like, the constant, like, it was just like, super overwhelming and super overstimulating. And I think that she's allowed herself to, like, settle down into a little bit more of, like, simplicity and enjoying, like, life, this life that she's built and created a lot more. But that comes with growth in general with people. And it's. But it's beautiful to see that she's allowed herself to get there. She didn't have. Have to allow herself to, like, build, like, build a life around her family and allow herself to, like, grow businesses, too. Like, I get the privilege of seeing, you know, what her mornings look like with her kids, which is, like, literally the most beautiful thing that you'll ever see in. In your life. Like, it is. It's chaotic. Yeah. But, like, it's. It's like, literally, like, I. I've talked about this before on here, but, like, I will sit on her couch and I'll text Leah and I'll be like, this is like, everything that, like, I hope for. Right? Like, each kid coming down the steps and just, like, going to her and, like, just being a magnet to her because they, like, love her and just, like, the enjoyment of what's next and just how her kids are, like, the people and the beings that her kids are just beautiful. So going, like, throughout her life, she's just allowed herself to kind of take that next step to becoming more of an adult, even though she doesn't think she has an adult body. But it's cool. It's like being in her inner circle, you get to see the chaos that everyone sees, but you also get to see that, like. Like the more soft side of things, which is.
- [38:03]
B
What I'd be crying.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah, she'd be crying a lot.
- [38:08]
B
Getting wet. Yeah. Yeah.
- [38:11]
A
Her eyes be getting wet. Yeah. So that's my answer.
- [38:15]
C
Oh, I love that.
- [38:16]
B
How.
- [38:16]
C
Have you seen. What about, like, your relationship with, like, friends who aren't, you know, used to being on TV or anything like that before the whole podcasting? What. How did that kind of change your relationship with people?
- [38:30]
A
Go ahead, girl.
- [38:33]
B
Before podcasting or after? What do you mean?
- [38:36]
C
I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, with making new friends, I mean, I'm sure that you walk into, like, situations a little hesitant, like, hey, are you here for me? Are you here for this? Are you here for, like, what are your intentions? So how is it, like, navigating new relationships or friendships?
- [38:52]
B
It's hard for me because I could. I. I do see the red flags, like, when people try to befriend me. Like, I do know who is seeking me out for that reason, and I ignore it because I think, okay, well, maybe this person will prove me wrong. Or maybe I, you know, this was their intention to start, but then they realize, okay, I. I am mostly good, right? Like, I do up a lot, but I'm mostly good. And so maybe they'll stick around because I'm mostly good and they actually like me. It always backfires, usually. So I just don't really make new friends at this point, or I keep people at a distance for a really, really long time before I consider them a friend. Now, where, like, before, everyone was my friend all the time, now it's like, you're an acquaintance for a really long time, and you may never actually get to be my friend, because as you guys have seen throughout the years, especially on Teen mom is, like, certain friends would be around for a certain amount of time, and then maybe on the next season, you wouldn't see them again. And so it wasn't. And I know people love to say that because I'm the problem, but usually those people, like. And I've said this before, like, one of the only reasons that Becky and I became friends again is because she never did me dirty. She never went public about our falling out. She never talked. Like. And she. When we became friends again and we reconnected, she told me, hey, by the way, I talked to this person, and I said, X, Y, and Z. No other people have really done that. They have always just, like, used me. And then when I'm. I realize and I say something or I cut them off, then they, you know, do whatever. But a lot of. A lot of the times, like, the outside people watching Teen mom or commenting or the trolls or whatever. A lot of them think it's because of me, but it's because the person never came into the relationship with good intentions to begin with. Not saying I'm perfect, obviously, no one thinks that. No, people think that I think I'm not the problem. They think I don't have the self awareness to recognize that I am the common denominator. But that doesn't always mean that I was the problem.
- [40:55]
C
Okay, that's fair. Yeah. Because I can't imagine, like, having that kind of, you know, presence on TV and stuff and then trying to meet someone new or like, date someone new and not know if they actually care about you or if they care about what they could potentially gain from that.
- [41:11]
B
You look at Chelsea from Teen Mom. Her friends stayed the same through all the years because she, one probably had the support system that she didn't need to let other people in. She didn't need validation. She had supportive parents. She had a good friend group from day one. So she wasn't letting all the outside people come in. Where I didn't have support, I didn't have a good support system. I didn't have any of that. So it was like whoever was willing to help at that time, I would ignore the red flags and just let them in my life, only for it to backfire. So I think that when you look at situations like that, like, I'm an easy target for people who are using me, where Chelsea, for example, wasn't an easy target because she had everything she needed with support and things like that and like, good people in her life before tv, if that makes sense.
- [41:54]
C
Yeah, that's kind of a good segue because I know people were wondering, your relationship with Janet or Joe's parents, if there's any.
- [42:03]
B
I don't have a relationship with those parents. I have not had a relationship with Joe's parents since I moved out, Janet. And my relationship was nothing like what it played out like on tv. I did not. I was never that close to Janet. So what people saw was not what happened in real life. I'm not saying that they never. They didn't help me. I'm not saying that they didn't put a roof over my head. But those good deeds and those, you know, acts of service came with attachments and came with an iou like it came with strings attached. And people don't realize that.
- [42:38]
C
Yeah, yeah. Like, there was more behind the scenes that we even realize.
- [42:42]
B
I was never close with Janet. I don't. I was never. I was closer to Joe's dad than I ever was to Janet.
- [42:48]
C
Oh, wow.
- [42:48]
B
Yeah.
- [42:49]
C
That's crazy, because, like, from my perspective, I thought that y' all were, like, super, super close. That's why I was curious, too.
- [42:55]
B
No, I was never close with Janet.
- [42:58]
C
Okay. Not to get a little more light hearted, I was like, oh, shoot. Okay, if you were to go to a bar and let's say, like, kale, you're gonna order the Becky drink. Becky, you're gonna order the Kale drink. What's the drink like? What is it comprised of?
- [43:13]
B
And why Becky's is like an ipa? Actually, no, no, no, no. I take that back. Becky's is crown apple. I'll let her pick mine.
- [43:29]
A
Kale's is a Coke.
- [43:33]
C
That's it?
- [43:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, Literally a Coke, not the Coke.
- [43:40]
C
Or like a. It can't be a McDonald's.
- [43:43]
A
Yeah, no, kale doesn't really drink. She's never like. I think that's also something. Like, I think that people don't admire a lot about her, that she's, like, self aware of the alcoholism that comes from her family. And so, like, I'm a. And I'm a pusher. I'm like a, you know, I'm like, I want you to drink with me type of person. She does not. She doesn't give a about alcohol, like, ever. Like, I can convince her to take sips and stuff here and there. And, like, you know, maybe one time in a year, I'll get her to, like, down a couple drinks with me, but she doesn't give a about alcohol.
- [44:25]
B
Not at all. I'll be the dd, though. If you ever need someone, just call me and I'll go pick you up. But I'm not a drinker.
- [44:35]
A
I used to walk into the vitamin aisle and just guess, like, I think I need iron, maybe some B12. And don't get me started on powders. Half of them taste like grass and regret. But then I found parallel. And it's like someone finally said, hey, women's bodies are different. Let's make vitamins that actually work for us. Whether I'm dealing with hormonal chaos, trying to stay energized, or just want a routine that doesn't feel like a science experiment, Parallel has something specific for where I'm at, not some generic multivitamin. Their formulas are obgyn, founded and backed by actual research, which I love. And their powders, game changer. Their protein powder isn't just protein. It's protein, fiber, and creatine. The greens fiber and Antioxidants. Even their hydration mix has collagen and hyaluronic acid. It's like they took my supplement jar and made it make sense. Exclusive for our listeners. New customers can enjoy 20 off their first order with code karma. Visit parallel.com. that's P E R E L E L H E A L T h dot com. Speaking of drinking, what's your favorite bar in Boys Town?
- [46:00]
C
Wow, great question. So Progress has to be my favorite because it's mostly like R B and hip hop and a crowd. There's Fantasy, which I just found out about. And it's like, mostly Latino men and, like, you know, I like to spice things up.
- [46:20]
A
So I've been to Boys Down a couple times. I love. Chicago is one of my favorite cities.
- [46:25]
B
I only went one time for the Steve Harvey show.
- [46:30]
C
That's so random. And the most random thing is that again, my best friend Casey told me she learned how to clap at a Steve Harvey show. And I'm like, make that make sense. Apparently there's like, a certain way you have to clap to make it louder.
- [46:44]
B
Oh, that's so interesting. I'll have to try that. It's the most rare.
- [46:50]
A
Our donor lives in Chicago.
- [46:53]
B
Have you seen the bean? Isn't there a bean?
- [46:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. Kale. Everyone, if you're. Everyone's seen the bean.
- [47:01]
C
It's like, if you go to LA and you're like, have you had in and out? It's like, okay.
- [47:05]
B
But when I went, I didn't get to explore. I was there for literally, like 12 hours. You know what I mean? Like, I went for, like, this. The show, and then I left. So I didn't get. I don't know.
- [47:17]
C
So you didn't, like, see Navy Pier or like, you didn't Lakeshore Drive? Okay, then you gotta get out here.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah, I would love to go to Chicago. That would be cool. I would love to visit.
- [47:28]
C
Yeah, we should make that.
- [47:29]
B
I'm in.
- [47:30]
A
Well, I'll be in Chicago probably early spring, maybe summer.
- [47:34]
B
We're gonna come.
- [47:35]
A
We're gonna go visit Matt. Matt's our donor. He lives in Chicago.
- [47:38]
B
So love. I want to go.
- [47:40]
C
Let me know. You can have pot bellies. What's your comfort food?
- [47:44]
B
Indian food. Never had it. That's a crime. I get.
- [47:51]
A
Yeah.
- [47:52]
B
Anytime, like, there. Anytime there is, like, we are on set. You can predict. I'm gonna order Indian food. Anytime, anytime.
- [48:02]
A
Every time.
- [48:03]
B
Every single time we are on set somewhere, I'm ordering Indian food because there's a story for why I can't Go to the one here in Dover. And so I just can only order Indian food at other locations.
- [48:17]
C
What's that story? Do you want to talk about that story?
- [48:19]
B
I don't know if I ever told the story because I've been really embarrassed about it. But what happened was I went to the Indian restaurant here in Dover, and I went inside and I ordered the food, and I can't. I said, I'll be back in 15 minutes to pick it up. And he was like, okay, cool. Go to the car. Why I didn't just send my kid into the restaurant to go to the bathroom. I don't know. I panicked. And I was like, well, then we have to get back out of the car and go back into the restaurant, and you have to use the bathroom. So here, pee in this bottle. And so he' peeing in the bottle at the same time that the owner. I told you I was coming into the store. Why are you bringing the food out to me? You're bringing the food out to me. He's knocking down the window. Creeds peeing in the fucking bottle in the middle of the car. And so I can't not ever go back because I just know that the owner saw this transpire.
- [49:07]
C
Of all the things that I could have predicted, that was not even in my top 20.
- [49:12]
B
No.
- [49:13]
A
If there's one thing about Kale, the prediction of what's going to come out of her mouth is negative. Like, you just never know. Although I will say I just texted Alessandra and I said, and Kale and I said, to quote, I don't know if I've ever told this. And then in parentheses has told this 10 times.
- [49:37]
B
Oh, really? I've talked about that.
- [49:39]
A
Yeah.
- [49:42]
B
Every time I've said it on the podcast. Yes, it was this podcast, in fact. Oh, okay, good. Well, I've been so embarrassed by that story. That was one that I was going to take to the grave because why am I letting my kid piss in a bottle? You know what I mean? You're not. Taking anything to the grave. Is literally out in public. And it's, like, in the most random spots, too. Like, we'll just be recording. What was it the other day? You go, oh, when you were a child, did you ever. And Kale goes, oh, Zuzi would smoke in the car with me as a kid and yell at me when I wanted to roll the windows down. You're like, no, that's not what we were gonna say at all. I say, I'm gonna take something to the grave. Here's the thing about me too is, like, people think that I like, am. So what is the word? Starts with a C. Secretive. No. Well, that starts with an S. Oh, God. I gotta go. See ya. No, the word is not conniving. When you calculated, they think I'm calculated. I'm not. I tell on myself even on accident. So if I do something up, I'm most likely telling on myself. Nothing is calculated.
- [51:00]
A
You're a little bit calculated.
- [51:01]
B
Give me an example.
- [51:03]
A
You are a calculated person. You have to be.
- [51:06]
B
Okay, but the things that come out of my mouth are not calculated.
- [51:09]
A
I would agree.
- [51:10]
B
I'll say that.
- [51:11]
A
Yes, I would. I would 100 agree with that. All right, you got us for like a couple more questions. So you better. You better get the. Any. Yeah, but is there anything else you're like, I wish I would have asked this. I want to know this.
- [51:26]
C
Like, I have so many, but I have a silly one because I feel like, you know, it's light hearted here. So let's say it's a road trip. You have a five person car. You're one of them. So you have four spots left with the team mom cast. Only in mind who's in this car and who's assigned what position. Like who's putting the music on, who's in the back, who's driving?
- [51:49]
A
Is this good? You go.
- [51:53]
B
Okay. Macy.
- [51:57]
C
Yeah.
- [51:57]
A
Where in the car is she?
- [51:59]
C
Yeah, where is she?
- [52:00]
B
Oh, hold on. Let me pull out my. Let me pick my people and then I'll place them. Is this 16 and pregnant too or teen mom only?
- [52:14]
C
We'll open it up. Yeah.
- [52:16]
B
Okay. Macy. Lindsay Nicholson. She was a cage fighter on 16 and pregnant. Kate. Ty. That's four and then I'm one of them or.
- [52:33]
C
Yeah. So that's your five.
- [52:34]
B
That's my five. Okay. I'm. Me and Ty are on the aux. I'm driving. Ty's on the ox, so he's got to be passenger. Kate's in the middle because she's got to be next to Ty. And I'm not trying to step on toes. You know what I mean? And so then we got Lindsay and Macy on either side of Kate and we are. What was the next question?
- [52:57]
C
That's pretty much it.
- [52:58]
A
But yeah, I want to do mine.
- [53:00]
B
Okay, go ahead.
- [53:03]
A
I would choose. Okay.
- [53:09]
B
I know where your brain is going.
- [53:11]
A
I want more. I want more seats. I'm gonna take my. I'm gonna take.
- [53:15]
B
You're taking the Denali?
- [53:18]
A
Okay. Yeah. So I'm picking. I guess I have to have kale. So Kale will be there because I have to bring her with me. I'm picking Macy because I love her and we have really good conversations. So she's gonna be in the front seat with me so that we can reconnect and have really good. Ty and Kate are going to sit in one seat. They're counted as one person because I love them. And then I also have always had a really great relationship with Leah. So Leah is going to be in the other seat. But in the back seat, I am going to put Janelle and Amber because I would love to just.
- [54:00]
B
Why am I in the back seat with them? You said I'm one of these people.
- [54:04]
A
Yeah, I know. You're in the.
- [54:06]
B
No.
- [54:09]
A
And Amber in the backseat because that is where all the content is going to come from. That is gonna.
- [54:18]
B
Me and Janelle don't like each other. Actually. I don't care about Janelle. I have no feelings about her at all. I'm indifferent. But Janelle and Amber hate each other.
- [54:26]
A
I know.
- [54:27]
B
Have no beef with Amber at all. I allegedly.
- [54:30]
A
I love Amber.
- [54:31]
B
Beef with Janelle, but I don't care about it, so she's got beef with me. So.
- [54:35]
C
Yeah.
- [54:36]
B
Who's sitting in the middle?
- [54:38]
A
No, that. That's it. It's captaincy.
- [54:40]
B
Out of the three of us in.
- [54:42]
A
The third, Amber sitting in the middle.
- [54:44]
C
Oh, my God. I would pay good money to be.
- [54:48]
A
I want to be the driver so I can be involved.
- [54:52]
B
Honestly, I would need my Kindle, and I just wouldn't participate. Like, I'd be there, but I wouldn't be there. You would be. That's not true. You would participate.
- [55:02]
C
Yeah. Yeah, please.
- [55:06]
B
With everybody talking and you're just gonna sit on your Kindle? It sounds good.
- [55:14]
A
Yourself in the back of the car.
- [55:16]
B
I. And I would, too. I would. Everywhere.
- [55:19]
A
Yeah, probably.
- [55:20]
C
That's so funny.
- [55:21]
A
All right, let's give. We gotta give him a. Is it karma or is it chaos? He has to read it.
- [55:28]
C
Are y' all ready?
- [55:29]
B
Yes. Yep.
- [55:29]
C
Is it karma? Is it chaos? You had mentioned that a listener had left their dad's ashes in their car to not intertwine their energies. That instantly reminded me. My grandma passed away in 2023 of an aggressive brain cancer. Up to the point of my grandma passing. My aunt and my grandma did not get along. It doesn't matter to me, but this is my step grandma and my aunt's stepmom anyway. My aunt is vile and just a plain, horrible person. My aunt was a complete bitch to my grandma. Naturally, after my grandma passed, she started Referring to my grandma as her mom. She never really did before this. I think it's an attention thing. My aunt asked my grandma for some of my.
- [56:12]
B
Wait.
- [56:12]
C
My aunt asked my grandpa for some of my grandma's ashes to put with her bio mom's ashes. The two women didn't get along whatsoever. I you, not my grandpa. Oh, my God. You sent me a whole story. I. You, not. My grandpa gave my aunt their dead dog's ashes to this. She doesn't know. Grandpa and I laugh too hard at this, but I told him I won't say anything for now, and I will wait until my grandpa passes away to tell her. Or. Yeah, yeah, it's spiteful, but it's probably karma for the way she treated my grandma.
- [56:43]
A
That is definitely karma, and that is awesome.
- [56:47]
B
Wait, so just so I'm clear, she gave her Great. Her step grandma dog ashes instead of.
- [56:55]
A
Her aunt asked for ashes from her stepmother, and her grandfather, who was married to her, gave her the dog's ashes instead because they never got along and she knew she was being fake about wanting her ashes. It was just for, like, attention.
- [57:13]
C
Oh, my God. Karma.
- [57:15]
B
Wait, but now she's, like, tainting the dog's ashes.
- [57:19]
A
No. Because she put it next to her mom's ashes, and so dogs are always down for anything. They don't care.
- [57:27]
C
Dogs were chilling. You know, it was fine.
- [57:29]
A
I love. That's a great story. That was a. That was a great. Is it karma? It was a chaos.
- [57:34]
C
Sheesh. My reading was probably terrible because, oh.
- [57:37]
B
My God, reading is the worst. So it's fine.
- [57:40]
C
This is my karma from, like, high school popcorn style, when they made you read and, like, oh, my God, I cannot do this.
- [57:46]
B
You're fine.
- [57:47]
A
You.
- [57:48]
B
Obviously, you guys don't hear, because it's the clean version, but Kale's talking about Becky not being able to read it. Ms. Kel Be stuttering every two seconds and read out loud to save my life.
- [57:59]
A
She's ripping me apart the second she starts reading.
- [58:02]
B
For some reason, you forgot how to read. Every time. It's out loud. For some reason. Every time. But I can comprehend. If I read silently, I'm great. I'm golden. But if I read. I wish I could weave in the little things you say to me during ad recordings. Like, you're so funny sometimes. Like, you'll read it and you'll know that you said something so fucked up, you'll be like, wait, what the fuck? What the fuck is wrong with me? Okay, I'm sorry, Alessandra. All right. Okay. And Then you'll do the sentence. I'll be like, hey, Mikael, I'm about to read these. Yeah, literally. Literally. Where can people find you? Enrique?
- [58:32]
C
Oh, my gosh. So on TikTok, I am essay Enrique. So E, S E Enrique with two E's at the end. On Instagram, I am a Enrique with five E's at the end. And yeah, that's pretty much it, period. You can find me all around Boys Town in Chicago if you're single.
- [58:51]
B
I love that. Thank you so much for coming on Karma and Chaos.
- [58:55]
C
No, thank you all. Like, honestly, I'm so. I'm like, geeked. I don't. I think I blacked out this whole time. I don't know what I said. I'm just, like, grateful. And I love y'.
- [59:04]
A
All.
- [59:04]
C
I support it.
- [59:05]
B
I love this. Thank you.
- [59:06]
A
We love having here. With all the best memories.
- [59:34]
C
The holidays are brutal, so if you're.
- [59:37]
B
Feeling Frugal, stream Pluto TV.
- [59:40]
C
Stream Pluto TV.
- [59:42]
A
Stream Pluto TV for free.
- [59:46]
C
Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street, Ted, the Expendables, and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay Never.
- [59:56]
A
Hi, I'm Lauren.
- [59:58]
B
And I'm Chandler. And we're the hosts of Pop Apologist.
- [60:00]
A
Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, Real housewives, drama, and anything and everything. Taylor Swift.
- [60:09]
B
We're two sisters who make no apologies.
- [60:12]
A
For our love of pop culture and the fact that a listers might mean.
- [60:15]
B
More to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app.
- [60:18]
A
Every Wednesday for pop Apologists.
- [60:21]
B
Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.