AN AMAZING LOVE STORY FROM BUMBLE

Summary

Podcast Summary: "AN AMAZING LOVE STORY FROM BUMBLE"

Podcast: Kat on the Loose
Host: Kat Zammuto
Guests: DJ & James
Date: April 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring and heartwarming episode, Kat Zammuto welcomes DJ and James, a couple who met on Bumble later in life and went on to not just find love, but create a business together. This raw, unfiltered conversation dives deep into breaking through heartbreak, entering the dating scene after trauma, and reframing thoughts about love, age, dating apps, and partnership. DJ and James open up about their journey from personal lows to finding a soulmate, building trust, developing mutual support, and launching a unique product for couples. Their story is proof that it's never too late for big love and even bigger adventure.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. From Heartbreak to Healing (01:14–04:22)

• DJ recounts experiencing a major heartbreak, ending a relationship with a partner struggling with addiction. She found comfort and resilience listening to Kat’s podcast, hearing about Kat’s own tumultuous past.
• Audience Impact Quote:

  “When Samantha, my publicist, showed me that email, I was like, oh my God. That's like the sweetest thing anybody could say to me. … If I can help one person, … I feel like I did my job.” – Kat (01:29)

2. Empowerment to Date Again at Any Age (04:22–09:21)

• DJ discusses her fears about dating at 47 in LA, comments on ageism, and credits Kat for reframing her mindset.
• Kat emphasizes, “Love is ageless” and urges listeners not to define themselves by societal standards about age and dating.
• Memorable Quote:

  “I personally think it's all baloney. I think aging is in our mind. If you decide you're old… That becomes your reality.” – Kat (04:43)

3. Online Dating Realities: Bumble, Mindset, and Modern Challenges (09:21–13:44)

• DJ relays her experience joining Bumble, appreciating its women-first model, but also facing disappointments with flakey or inauthentic matches.
• She highlights the importance of perseverance and maintaining hope.
• DJ and James both stress the value of believing love is possible, reinforcing a mindset of abundance rather than scarcity.
• DJ is honest that her initial video date with James wasn’t mind-blowing—but the in-person meeting changed everything.

4. The First Date: Humor, Attraction, and Connection (13:44–19:20)

• The couple describes meeting in person after a successful video call—and their real connection sparking over drinks and laughter.
• Highlights include DJ being “blown away” when she saw James in person and their first (spicy, margarita-fueled) kiss, led by DJ.
• Notable Quote:

  “When I saw him walking towards me, I still remember just being blown away, like, wow, he's very handsome.” – DJ (15:49)

• James recalls his surprise at their height difference and comments humorously:

  “I’m a solid five on video.” – James (13:16)

5. Long-Distance Challenge and Building Trust (19:20–21:10)

• After their first date, James leaves town for three weeks. They maintain daily communication, strengthening their bond through consistent effort.
• DJ notes how his reliability and communication reassured her, tying it to the universal advice:

  “You'll know a man is really into you when he's consistent.” – DJ (20:09)

6. From Early Dating to Exclusivity and Moving In (21:10–32:16)

• The couple takes a bold leap early on by vacationing together after just a week or two—testing compatibility and lifestyle fit.
• They review critical moments, like DJ’s health scare (appendicitis) and James stepping up with care.
• They discuss their mutual view on exclusivity—reflecting DJ’s French background: “In France, you just date until you decide to not date… not with a bunch of people.” (25:29)
• They moved in together after about a year, now approaching two years living together.

7. Navigating LA Dating Culture (28:41–31:10)

• James candidly discusses the challenges of LA’s dating scene, encountering materialism and women seeking gifts even before a first date.

  “I actually said [in my Bumble profile], I’m looking for a non-materialistic person. … Let's meet at Rodeo Drive, I want to go shopping on our first date. I thought it was a joke.” – James (28:52)

• Both agree on valuing sincerity and simplicity in profiles and in-person meetings.

8. Hope for Others: Dating Apps Can Work (32:21–33:44)

• Kat and guests emphasize that, despite horror stories, dating apps can yield meaningful, life-changing connections—but persistence, authenticity, and hope are key.

  “The only way to find treasure is if you keep looking for it.” – Kat (33:27)

9. From Love to Collaboration: The Sleeping Dove Story (34:16–44:11)

• DJ and James describe how their relationship inspired the creation of The Sleeping Dove, a luxury comforter with “windows” for temperature customization.
• The product originated from DJ’s discomfort being too warm when cuddling; their combined skills (her design/product background, his law/engineering) enabled them to patent and develop the comforter together.
• The conversation covers the design and development process, their at-home prototyping, and how their relationship complements their professional partnership.
• Business Inspiration Quote:

  “When I started dating her, one thing I did not expect was … I would … be on my hands and knees… cutting up pieces of fabric.” – James (37:26)

• They highlight the product’s appeal for couples with different sleeping preferences, pet owners, people in menopause, and more—and its meaningful origin story.

10. Reflections on Love, Age, and Second Chances (44:54–end)

• DJ and Kat stress that it’s never too late to find love, and that maturity brings clarity in knowing what one wants in a partner.

  “It doesn't matter how old you are. Truly, you can find love.” – DJ (44:58) “I think now that we're more mature, we know better what we want.” – Kat (45:02)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On finding support through Kat’s podcast:
  “Your podcast became my support… I just loved all the stories you shared.” – DJ (04:22)
• On the power of mindset:
  “You determine like what kind of life you're gonna have, right? I mean, love is ageless, right?” – Kat (04:41)
• On consistency as relationship foundation:
  “If the person wants you… they're gonna communicate.” – Kat (19:38)
• On risk-taking and intuition:
  “You just try to enjoy the moment… At an age where, like, you know, I'm just gonna do it.” – DJ (23:07)
• On the difference in approach to exclusivity:
  “In France, you just date until you decide to not date… You’re exclusive. There’s no multi-dating.” – DJ (25:29)
• On the transition from dating to business partners:
  “We just love that it is natural… And easy to use. Anybody can use it.” – DJ (43:31)
• On never giving up on love:
  “Get inspired. Never give up on love.” – Kat (45:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening/Introduction – 00:00–01:14
• DJ’s Journey to the Podcast – 01:14–04:22
• Aging & Dating (Empowerment Message) – 04:22–09:21
• Online Dating Experiences – 09:21–13:44
• The First Date & Early Chemistry – 13:44–19:20
• Communication & Consistency After First Date – 19:20–21:10
• Relationship Progression: Trip, Exclusivity, Moving In – 21:10–32:16
• Dating in LA vs. Other Places – 28:41–31:10
• Online Dating Hope and Lessons – 32:21–33:44
• Founding The Sleeping Dove – 34:16–44:11
• Reflections and Closing Encouragement – 44:54–end

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Tone & Style

Conversational, unfiltered, and supportive. Kat remains upbeat, open, and affirming, creating a safe space for real talk about relationships. DJ and James are honest, humble, and encouraging toward those who may be struggling to find love or recovering from heartbreak.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a testament to the possibility of second chances, the importance of resilience, and the beauty of building both love and a life together—no matter your age. The couple’s journey from heartbreak to partnership (personally and professionally) is not only romantic but also an empowering model for listeners seeking new beginnings.

Where to find DJ & James's product:
Website: sleepingdove.com
Instagram: @sleepingdovehome

Watch the video version:
YouTube: "Kat on the Loose Show"

Key Takeaway:
Never give up on love—at any age. Be open, persistent, and authentic. Sometimes, the best chapters begin after you thought your last page had ended.

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Episode recommended for: Those questioning love later in life, navigating dating after heartbreak, seeking hope for online dating success, or inspired by love-fueled entrepreneurship.

Transcript

[Kat]

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[DJ]

Thank you for having us.

[Kat]

It's such a pleasure and honor to have you.

[DJ]

Well, you know, it's an honor for me.

[Kat]

So let's, let's start with you, D.J. and because I want, I want, I want people to understand, like, who are they? What's going on?

[DJ]

Sure.

[Kat]

You send an email to my publicist a few weeks ago.

[James]

Yes.

[Kat]

And you wrote something that I have to say. It really, that's the reason why I do the show. And it's the best gift anybody can give me. You said you were going through some major heartbreak, something horrible, and you listened to the show and it made you laugh and it made you feel better. So when I, when Samantha, my publicist, showed me that email, I was like, oh my God. That's like the sweetest thing anybody could say to me. Because when I started the show, as you know, I was going through hell and high water.

[DJ]

I remember.

[Kat]

Yeah. And that, that's why I started doing it. And I was venting and I always say, like, I don't care how big the show gets. If I can help one person, one woman out there feel better about what she's going through, I feel like I did my job. So I have to say thank you for the email.

[James]

Aw.

[DJ]

But it's Kat. I have to say thank you because when I wrote that email, I knew it was a shot in the dark. I'm like, she gets a ton of emails. She's probably not going to even see this one. But I was like, I Think if anybody's going to understand me, it's going to be Kat and she's going to know, she's going to answer me. Um, but yeah, I discovered you. I was. Had just ended a relationship and the person I was with was an addict. So that's why when I listened to you, what was.

[Kat]

Okay, let's. Let's go by parts. So you were in a long term relationship?

[DJ]

Yes, it was about two years.

[Kat]

Two years? Yeah. That's all they. He was addicted. To what?

[DJ]

Well, he was. So he was initially. He was not. He's a great guy, but he then become an alcoholic like my husband that passed away. Yeah, exactly. And that's why when I heard you, I was like, oh, my goodness. And the way you described your husband, because you were like, it was so hard, but he was still a great person. Same like with this guy I was with. Right. So it was hard to end that relationship, but it was the better thing to do for me. But it was so heartbreaking. And I never had been with someone who was an addict, so I didn't know how to figure out how to move on. And then when I heard you and you were so raw and so honest and you're right. When you started, it really was just you talking.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[DJ]

And because I live in LA and you live in la, I was like, oh, my goodness, I feel so connected to her. And I binge. I think I listened to a couple of them and I just binged everything.

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[DJ]

Just loved it and followed you.

[Kat]

That's so sweet. By the way, congratulations on leaving the relationship because I always say it took me 15 years to leave mine. 15 years being in a crazy abusive marriage to an alcoholic who in the beginning was not an alcoholic and became an alcoholic. And nowadays, of course, I'm more mature. Everything but I say you gotta save yourself and get the hell out and figure out that you deserve better. So. And a lot of people don't understand how hard it is to get out.

[DJ]

It is really hard, especially because this was kind of just during COVID so you couldn't really get together with your girlfriends.

[Kat]

Right.

[DJ]

To get that support. And so that's why your podcast became my support. Thank you. And I just loved all the stories you shared when you went out and dated. And I was 47. Right. And I was terrified of going back to date because in la. This is huge thing though, about age. Right.

[Kat]

You know what I say?

[DJ]

Right?

[Kat]

I. I personally think it's all baloney. I think aging is in our mind. If you decide you're old. Like, okay, I'm out of the dating game. That becomes your reality, right? It's like with anything. Like if you decide I'm old. Yeah, you're gonna age. I think your mind has a lot of power. And it's not just la, right? I know because of Hollywood and everything. But you, you go to Miami or, or New York, the girls say the same thing. But I think you gotta. You determine like what kind of life you. You're gonna have, right? I mean, love is ageless, right? And I'm gonna bring. I'm gonna. If you want to say something, you're welcome to James. I'm listening to you guys, but I want to get to your part. Yeah, I want to get your part, which is the love I'm already telling guys. I never thought I would say this, but this Black Friday. Instead of buying more stuff I don't need, I decided to invest in my sex life instead. We all know Black Friday is about deals, but do spend hundreds of dollars in stuff you don't need or 69 bucks on improving your sex life. Yes. @beducated.com Real Talk no one ever really teaches us how to be amazing in bed. We're just supposed to figure it out somehow, right? Well, that's exactly what I thought until I found educated. I started exploring their courses because I wanted to understand not just pleasure, but connection. And it completely changed how I see intimacy. I learned simple, real techniques that make you more confident, more in tune with your partner, honestly, more empowered in your own body. Beducated is a safe space for all. And that's my favorite part. No matter relationship status, sexual orientation or gender. So if you're ready to level up your love and sex life solo or with a partner, go to beducate.me cat69. That's my code. Cat K A T69 to get 65 off the yearly pass. That's their biggest discount of the year. And it's completely risk free. 14 day money back guarantee. So go to go to bedjukait me cat69 and give yourself a gift that will last. Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[James]

Zoe, this thing weighs a ton.

[DJ]

Drew, ski, lift with your legs, man. Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[James]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[Kat]

I'm not that. Of course he did.

[James]

Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here.

[DJ]

He handles the nice list.

[James]

And elf.

[DJ]

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[James]

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[DJ]

Group selfies, right, Mrs. Claus?

[Kat]

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[James]

Or give it as a gift.

[DJ]

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[Kat]

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[DJ]

Guys, my side of the tree is slipping.

[James]

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[Kat]

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[DJ]

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[James]

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[Kat]

With auto papers, taxes and fees required.

[James]

Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

[Kat]

Visit t mobile.com telling everybody. It's a really happy, happy, happy ending love story. That's why I love it. I couldn't wait to share you guys with the world.

[DJ]

But I wanted to mention the age because that's where I was right? I was.

[Kat]

Your mindset was like, oh, that's it exactly.

[DJ]

Who's going to want to date me? And then I was listening to your podcast and I was like, okay, if Gad can do it, I can do it. And he made me laugh the plunger story. Like I was like just dying laughing.

[Kat]

I know, right?

[DJ]

I cannot told James about it.

[Kat]

Oh, you gotta. You saw it.

[James]

I didn't hear, but she told me about it.

[Kat]

The plunger episode is. You guys gotta actually watch a video. Episode was a crazy. She's adorable. It's a friend of mine and she has this theory that men are shy approaching women in public, which is true most of the time. So she was like, if you walk around with something really, really crazy, they're gonna come talk to you. So me and my friend, it was just before the holidays here on Rodeo Drive. We, we are dressed to the nines. We look fabulous. She's super gorgeous and she's like, I'm gonna carry a plunger around. And sure enough, every bar we went to, all the guys, everybody stop and they laugh and they talk and. And I ended up dating. Exactly, you gotta date. I ended up dating one of the guys and falling in love with the guy, which was like huge risk because he's like a trust fund baby useless guy that doesn't do anything with his life. But anyway, that's another episode I can think about.

[James]

I would 100% could talk to some woman if she was carrying a plunger.

[Kat]

See, there you go. Everybody talks.

[DJ]

Yeah, it was such a great idea. But that's how you got me out of my sadness, right? And then slowly, okay, I can do this. I can go back and date.

[Kat]

Oh, thank you. That means the world to me. So, okay, then as you're mending your broken heart, you're like, I gotta jump back into the dating world.

[DJ]

I gotta jump back in the dating world. But I just wanna say the whole time I'm following you and I'm a big podcast junkie, and I was looking at the list of the top 200, and then one day I was like, oh, my gosh, Kat is like, on.

[Kat]

That day, we were climbing slowly. It is taking forever, but, yeah, every little step, you know, it's. It's fun. Yeah, it's a good journey.

[DJ]

But you were right. So I decided, okay, I gotta start dating. And so I joined Bumble because that's my favorite app. I love the idea that I could be the one contacting the guy first. And so I started doing it was not very successful at first. Got my hopes broken a few times here and there.

[Kat]

You went on a few dates?

[DJ]

Yes, went on a few dates. Some guys were like, yeah, I'm looking for a relationship. And the next thing you know, they send you a message saying they're more into a situationship maybe, and you're like, that's not what we.

[Kat]

Unfortunately, that's the net. That's the number one complaint of everybody on dating apps. There's a lot of flakes out there for. On the men's side and the women's. Everybody complains, like, of course. Right? There are a lot of players, a lot of liars, a lot of bs.

[DJ]

But yeah, for sure. And so. But I'm not someone who gets negative. So I was like, okay, I'm going to keep doing. I really, truly believed I was going to meet the right person. And so.

[Kat]

So your mindset, you notice how was changing, right?

[DJ]

I really believe in having a vision. Yes. So I always kind of knew this.

[Kat]

You have to believe.

[DJ]

Yes, yes.

[Kat]

You have to believe.

[DJ]

And so, yeah, one day I was matched with this guy, and he looked so handsome in his picture. And I think we just talked about this too. I lived in Wooden Hills at the time, which is the valley, and he was on the west side. And I was kind of like, oh, that's not gonna work. That's too far. It's 12 miles.

[Kat]

Oh, my God, you're worse than me.

[DJ]

Yeah, I'm like, in LA, 12 miles.

[Kat]

Like, now I have people there that I want to date within the Beverly Hills ratio. They're like, oh, my God, you're such a snob.

[DJ]

Forget.

[Kat]

I'm like, but ye. Yeah, Traffic is. Is. It's tough.

[DJ]

It's like.

[Kat]

It's tough. Yeah.

[DJ]

The first month, it's fine. You're all excited, but after a while, it gets.

[Kat]

Woodland Hills in West Hollywood is not that bad. It's not that bad.

[DJ]

Yeah. Well, he was in Culver City. It's Culver City with traffic. It could be an hour and a half, Right?

[Kat]

Or more. Yeah, or more.

[James]

I know every inch of inch of that road now.

[Kat]

You memorized it.

[James]

Yeah.

[DJ]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So you guys connected on Bumble and you went on a date.

[DJ]

Yeah. So what I want to say what I loved about him because I grew up in France, and so what I loved about him was that he had lived in Italy for 15 years, and so he had a story as well. And we connected. And the first thing we did first is we did a video chat, which.

[Kat]

I think is a great idea. I love video chats. Because, you know what, if the person doesn't look like that, if you don't have that initial attraction, you're not going to waste. Especially for Ruben. Right. Because honestly, going on a date, I know guys say I have to pay, but for us, we pay too, because we do our hair, makeup, nails, outfit.

[DJ]

Yeah, right.

[Kat]

It's such a production, for sure.

[DJ]

And you're right. It's. Some people don't look like that pictures. But also, it's that connection, the vibe you can feel right away. Even on the video, you can feel if you're gonna get along with this person.

[Kat]

So you guys saw each other's profile, and you're like, let's do a video date.

[DJ]

Yes. Yes.

[Kat]

And the minute you did a video date, you were like, I want to meet.

[DJ]

You know, I was telling him the other day, like, I knew I wanted to meet him, but I wasn't, like, blown away by him on video initially, to be quite honest with you.

[Kat]

That's why he fell in love with you. You're like, I'll give you a shot.

[DJ]

He looks great in person, though.

[Kat]

Yeah. And I. That's so cute.

[DJ]

It's true. I was not.

[James]

I'm a solid five on video.

[DJ]

Five.

[Kat]

Well, you passed. Well, the good news is you passed the video.

[DJ]

He was so charming, and so he had so much interest, easy to talk to. We laughed. It was a fun conversation. And so we decided to meet in Sherman Oaks. But like a week later. And then he emailed me saying, well, actually, I have to go to Kansas City on, I think before your marriage.

[James]

Was the day after.

[DJ]

Yeah, like, we were supposed to. Yeah, we were supposed to on Wednesday. And he said, you had to go on Wednesday to Kansas City. So then we had to push our date to Memorial day. Right, the 2023.

[James]

Yeah. And then I had to leave the.

[DJ]

Next morning, the very next day. So he wanted to meet me before he left.

[Kat]

But wait, did you plan a nice date for the first date?

[James]

We were just gonna meet for drinks, that's all.

[Kat]

But did you plan it?

[James]

Yeah, I think so.

[DJ]

He was new to town, so he.

[James]

Didn'T have to go. I had just arrived in la, like, two months.

[Kat]

Where'd you move from?

[James]

I have lived all over. And, yeah, I have a crazy situation.

[Kat]

No, but, like, when you arrived in LA from where.

[James]

I was traveling around the country and also, and hiking in different areas, and my son had moved to la, and he said, dad, come check it out. I think you'd like it. And I just never really pictured what the nature was like in la.

[Kat]

Hiking, so. I know. It's funny, so many people don't know.

[James]

I rented an Airbnb for a month and I came out and I had so much fun, and so I extended for a month, and I just kept extending. And I think. I don't remember how many months I'd been here when I.

[Kat]

It was meant to be.

[DJ]

Yeah, it was meant to be.

[Kat]

So you.

[James]

You.

[Kat]

When you. When the first date, you said, let's meet halfway.

[DJ]

Yes. Yes.

[Kat]

You look very nice.

[DJ]

Yeah, well, I think he would have come to me, but I just said, let's meet in Sherman Oaks. Right.

[Kat]

Because, like. Okay, so I'm going to be completely honest. I never, ever, ever would have done that for a guy. Yeah, I. I know. I'm. That's why, like, I'm so picky. Like, I just have these things in my mind and I should be more like you, that I'm like, dude, you know, you have to.

[James]

I would have.

[Kat]

Yeah, I know you would have, but I think it's very nice of her, since you were new in town, to like, make it easy for you. Obviously, that's why you guys are together, you know, But I. I just think I just wouldn't have done that so I could have lost an opportunity to meet the person of my life, you know, because I'm like that.

[DJ]

But go with your guts, because I don't think I've done that with some guys. Right. But with him, I just really kind of felt like something could happen here for whatever reason.

[Kat]

So you guys had drinks?

[DJ]

Yes. When I saw him, I gotta tell you, when I saw him, because in a. It wasn't that, you know, but when I saw him walking towards me, I still remember just being blown away, like, wow, he's very handsome.

[Kat]

So you saw him, you're like, oh, okay, I like this. How about you, James? What was like, so tell me your impression when you had a video call with her.

[James]

Yeah, I just remember that she was cute and easy to talk to. And so I was like, yeah, let's try. You never know until you meet someone.

[Kat]

But were you kind of like her? Yeah, you never know. Okay. And when you saw her in person, were you like, okay, I really like her.

[James]

I was kind of. It was a surprise to me because. So I'm 6 to 200ish pounds.

[Kat]

Yeah, you're very tall and you're very tiny.

[James]

DJ is 5ft tall and like half of my weight. Right. And so I was standing there and I didn't know that she got out of the car and I was, oh.

[Kat]

You didn't know her height?

[James]

I didn't know. So she got out, she's walking up the street and I was just like, wow, she's so like, like tiny and girly. This is really nice. And. And she came and so, yeah, it was. It's funny, when we look at ourselves in a mirror right now, we look like different. Like we're from different.

[Kat]

I personally think it's really cute. I like that because I also like a man that is much bigger than me.

[DJ]

Yeah.

[Kat]

So, you know, if, if it works for you guys, I think it's super adorable.

[James]

But, you know, obviously she's very, very good looking, so I was happy with that. But there are a lot of beautiful women around, right? In la.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

And I had been here for I don't know how many months, but I.

[DJ]

Think about two months.

[James]

Yeah. I'd started dating already and had some funny experiences too. Right?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

But then we sat and talked at the corner of a bar and we're drinking these spicy margaritas and the conversation was just so natural and flowed really well. And we were laughing our heads off. And part of it was these margaritas were so spicy. I don't know if you remember that, that our mouths were literally on fire. And then when we kissed at the end of the night, it was almost painful.

[Kat]

Oh, you guys kissed the first date.

[DJ]

We did. I actually kissed him.

[James]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we're sitting at the bar.

[Kat]

That's another thing that I would never do.

[James]

I never had that done. And knowing dj, it surprises me.

[Kat]

You know, you're not gonna believe that, but sometimes I go on a first date and if the guy's pushy to try to kiss me, that's a deal breaker for me. I get super annoyed.

[James]

No, but can't.

[Kat]

She kissed me, obviously. You guys are really mental. Yeah, she kissed me.

[James]

She leaned across and kissed me. And the way she says it is, she's like, I could tell you wanted it. Cause of the way you're speaking.

[DJ]

And I can tell he was way.

[Kat]

Too polite to do it, but you wanted it too.

[DJ]

I did. Because I knew he was leaving the next day. And I was like, okay, I need to know if he's a good kisser. So, yeah, I mean, we had been drinking, so I mean, there was a bit, you know, margarita in there. I love it.

[James]

But it was just good fun. I literally remember, like, just laughing our heads off until you almost cry.

[DJ]

Right, okay.

[Kat]

So that was the first date. So after that date you're like, I wanna see her again.

[James]

Yeah. And so then I had to travel for three weeks. I decided I was gonna stay in la, so I had to go back and get my car and drive across country in the car. And I had some work things to do. So for three weeks we didn't see each other. Which was kind of nice because three.

[Kat]

Weeks after the first date, you did and you were still connected.

[James]

We started texting and talking and it was really a nice way to, like, get to know each other in a non physical way with this, like, forced separation. And I was. And she would see pictures of me like, o, now he's in New Mexico and I'm coming across the country taking pictures out the window. And so it was really sweet. And we were really looking forward then to seeing each other again.

[DJ]

And he doesn't know this, but. And I think you'll understand. For me, I was really scared that. Because sometimes you know how people you meet and then you don't see each other for weeks and. Diesels. Right? But he was so consistent every day. I would hear from him every day. And so I think this is really.

[Kat]

Important because if the person wants you, if they want to see you again, they're gonna communicate. Especially women, they make excuses like, oh, he's busy, he's. No, no, nobody's too busy to be in contact with you if they care about you, like, if they really care. Like, I want to see this woman again.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

They can be working 12 hours, driving cross country. They're gonna find the time even when you go to the bathroom. Right. Or when you go to sleep. So this is really important.

[DJ]

I always tell my girlfriend's cat, I said, you'll know a man is really into you when he's consistent.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[DJ]

And he, James was always consistent and never worried about whether or not he was into me. Yes. And then tell her about what we did after you came back.

[James]

Yeah. So we got back and I don't remember.

[DJ]

You got back on Father's Day.

[James]

Yeah, we had another day. We had a dinner. It was very nice. And then I was like, I need to learn la. So I'm gonna plan a trip for us. So I planned was like a five day trip.

[Kat]

That was the second day to me.

[DJ]

To go on a trip with you before the second date.

[James]

Yeah. Cause I wanted to go around. So we went to Idyll. Was it Idyllwild?

[DJ]

We went on a one week vacation after barely knowing each other.

[James]

Yeah.

[DJ]

And she's.

[James]

And as we were talking, she's like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it home from this. I don't really know you. And I rented a tree house in Idlewild. Idyllwild. And then we went to Big Bear and we went to Joshua Tree and we had so much fun. I'm not especially outgoing in public. And she got me to go on stage and sing karaoke.

[DJ]

Oh, wow.

[James]

She sang Like a Virgin.

[Kat]

I love that.

[James]

And there was an audience of like six people in this theater. And I got up and sang Johnny Cash song.

[Kat]

Oh my God.

[James]

We just had a great time. We went to Joshua Tree and climbed around on boulders and things.

[Kat]

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[DJ]

Absolutely.

[Kat]

Or is he just wants to travel with me? You know, let's be honest, like, have sex and dump me, or was he telling you I want a relationship?

[DJ]

No, he was not.

[Kat]

Did you know you wanted a relationship, James?

[James]

I was open to one for sure, but I didn't need one. But I was open to one.

[DJ]

Yeah, right. I think I was. No, I was scared the entire time. I think like most girls we don't know, right. The first couple months, you don't know, so you just try to enjoy the moment. And so I had no idea.

[Kat]

But.

[DJ]

But I was like, at an age where like, you know, I'm just gonna do it.

[Kat]

Yeah. And. And you followed your instincts, right?

[DJ]

Right. Take a chance. And he's such a good guy. And even then I knew he was a good guy, so. But yes, I was always nervous. I don't know if you knew that.

[Kat]

That is like the sweetest thought. Of course, I mean, in the beginning, when you're getting to know someone, and I think that's the. The test of fire when you travel together. Right. Because one thing is go on a date, dinner. But like, when you're traveling, you're, like, sleeping, waking up, you're doing everything. Then you really find out, like, do we have similar lifestyles? Do we really want the same things? Right. It's like make or break for a lot of couples.

[James]

Anybody can fake it during a dinner.

[DJ]

Or a date or whatever, but, you.

[James]

Know, if you're gonna be with someone for six days, Right. You're gonna really get to know who they are.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[DJ]

So I have two dogs, and it was very important for me that he loved dogs. And we took them on a vacation and he was super with dogs. That was a big plus.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[DJ]

And like you said, our lifestyle is very similar. We wake up early, we like to exercise. I mean, we just had a lot of things in common. It was easy.

[Kat]

I think you have to have that. I always say. Yeah, of course, love is important and chemistry and physical attraction. But if you don't have similar lifestyles, it's not gonna work in the long run. Right. Great example is I always say, like, JLo and Ben Affleck, Right. They love each other. Obviously they tried twice. Why didn't it work? Because they're like, night and day. She loves the limelight and traveling and parties and everything. And he's the opposite.

[DJ]

Exactly.

[Kat]

And you have to have like. Like you said, if you wake up early and he wakes up at 10am it's never gonna work.

[DJ]

And I gotta tell you, Kat, I want to say this. I've always had not great luck with men. So I've always. It's always been very difficult for me to the point where I was like, okay, I must be cursed somehow never to find love.

[Kat]

Oh, my God. Obviously not.

[DJ]

Yeah, I was very. And so.

[Kat]

But yeah, I know. You start feeling, like you said, insecure, like, what's going on? You know, where's my person?

[DJ]

Right? So the whole time I'm dating him, right? I'm. I'm showing him, like, this confident woman, but deep down, I'm like, so scared, right? Scared to get hurt, scared to get disappointed. But. But he's. He's just great.

[Kat]

So after this trip, how long did you guys date until. Did you say, let's be exclusive? Did you say, let's be exclusive? How did that part happen?

[DJ]

It's just kind of new, right? We didn't really.

[James]

It was pretty quickly, actually. I think after a month or two. And I remember you saying to me, I don't know if you remember this. You're like, well, in France. Because she grew up in France. In France, you just date until you decide to not date. And it's not like you date around with a bunch of people.

[DJ]

You're exclusive. There's no multi dating.

[James]

You just try one.

[Kat]

That's how I am.

[DJ]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I know a lot of people. A lot of people. Even girls, like, even matchmakers, they're like, oh, just keep your options open. I can barely focus. I barely have time to focus on one person. I don't know how so many girls, like, focus on 2, 3, 4, 5 at the same time. It's crazy, right?

[DJ]

Well, especially if you really like someone. Like, I feel bad not, you know, so. So I had expressed. Expressed that to him, but I think what really. I had. My appendicitis had to be removed. And this happened like three months after we dated. And he was amazing. I think that's really what cement how I felt about you and how you felt about me.

[James]

I forced her to go to the emergency room. She wouldn't have done it.

[DJ]

He wasn't me.

[James]

The hospital together.

[Kat]

That's very. Then you know the person really cares about you. Of course, in times of stress. And how about. Did you guys have the conversation about let's delete our bumble profiles? Because That's a big deal, right? I had this Bumble story years ago. I don't know if you listen to the Bumble episode. I was dating this guy for like you guys are. We're dating like we are literally all over each other's lives. He's staying my, blah, blah. We travel. And then one day I'm sitting at his house like, my dog's there. I'm like, literally. I'm not kidding. I was naked on his couch, a towel wrapped around me, having an ice cream, my little dog napping after me. And he decided to tell me that he was still on Bumble because he was feeding his ego. Feeding his ego like after all these months.

[DJ]

Right, right.

[Kat]

You know, and I'm like, I don't think so. You know, like, I, I, I deserve better. Goodbye. So I think the, when you delete the app is a really important part in a relationship if you're meeting through a dating app. Did you guys have that conversation?

[DJ]

I think we did. I think we just did that on our own and we didn't have a conversation about it.

[James]

I don't remember, but I know we told each other that we had done that.

[DJ]

Yeah. Just because we knew a couple months in that this was a serious thing. Yeah. So we, no, we didn't have that conversation.

[Kat]

But you never asked him, like, hey, no, I just. You just knew he wasn't looking. Yeah.

[DJ]

And I just, I feel like at least for me, for things to work out, I just have to trust for sure. Yeah. Because if I start to have doubts, then it gets crazier.

[Kat]

Oh my God. I completely agree. If you can't trust someone, if there is no loyalty, there is nothing. And how about for you, Jane? You just like you were dating her.

[James]

I just arrived in LA and I had been dating around for a couple years, had been divorced for I guess 15 years now. Right. And I had a few long term relationships since then. And so for a couple years I was just wanting to just relax and just date casually.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

So I wasn't, but I wasn't against it.

[DJ]

Right.

[James]

And so I arrived in la.

[Kat]

You're a smile.

[James]

Yeah. In la, the whole dating scene was completely different. So I had traveled around with this app and dated in, I was in Colorado, I was in South Dakota for a while.

[Kat]

Oh, wow. So you're a good tester for Bumble.

[DJ]

Yeah.

[James]

And so I got to la and it was crazy.

[Kat]

Was LA the worse?

[James]

I had to literally change my dating profile. I don't know if it was before. You must have seen it. But I said on there, I had to change it to add a sentence that said I'm looking for a non materialistic person. I actually said that in my thing because I was getting a lot of interactions and these women were saying like, okay, let's meet at Rodeo Drive, I want to go shopping on our first date. I thought it was a joke. But then it kept happening over and over again. So I put that on there. So it was kind of crazy.

[Kat]

But unfortunately, by the way, it is true. It happens. Every guy ever dated says the same thing. All my guy friends say the same thing. So many girls out there, even before the first date, they're like, hey, can you bring me a gift? Can we go to like, come on, that's disgusting. Right? Let's be all like, please. And like ladies, you know, have some self respect.

[James]

It happened a lot. And I remember DJ's profile was like, was like mine. It was very simple. It's like, I live here, I have two dogs, I have this. I won't mind. I like to sleep in my socks.

[Kat]

And you like to sleep with socks?

[James]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And you put that on the day.

[James]

Yeah, something very basic like that. Like just, just the facts, sir. Right. And, and I like that.

[DJ]

I still do, even in the summer.

[Kat]

It's funny that you open up like that. Like, hey, if you don't like me to sleep in my. Do you have sex with the socks on or you take them off?

[DJ]

Yes, I take them off.

[Kat]

Thank God.

[DJ]

When it's time to be sexy.

[Kat]

Last time I had sex with this dude that I was dating and I looked, all of a sudden he had the socks on. I was like, like, okay, I have to go home and sleep at home cuz my dog sitter and I left cuz that was like a little much like, come on, if you don't take your socks off to have sex, like you're not for me. No, I lost the track.

[DJ]

Okay.

[James]

So we were dating after we started then dating and I was, you know, I was having fun dating. Right?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

Cuz LA is a crazy place for that. Right. I was meeting very interesting people, very nice people, everything thing. And after a couple months maybe I sort of realized, well I could still do this, but I just don't really want to.

[Kat]

That's awesome.

[James]

Right?

[DJ]

Yeah.

[James]

And, and so yeah, that's how we kind of.

[Kat]

That I think that's the, that's the, the purpose of it, right? If you like someone like you said, focus on them. And that's very unfortunate that a lot of men are still like oh, let me see what's better. If that's how you feel. Yeah, go see what's better out there. But if you like someone, appreciate them enough to focus on them and see where this is going to develop. So how long after you guys were dating that you decided, like, let's move in together?

[DJ]

I think it was July, because I moved to. I sold my place for a reason. We'll explain later. I sold my place and then I moved to the west side.

[James]

So over a year. Between a year and a year and a half.

[Kat]

Okay, so you guys dated for a year.

[James]

She moved to the west side and got a place near me. And then I was still in this Airbnb where I was extending every month, and then we moved into that place together.

[Kat]

So how long has this been now?

[James]

Now two ish years, almost.

[Kat]

Coming up on two years that you guys are living together?

[James]

Oh, no, no. Living together.

[DJ]

A year plus. Yeah.

[James]

No, from the summer. Yeah. Not even a year.

[Kat]

So you've been together for what, three years?

[DJ]

Almost two. Two years now.

[Kat]

Yeah, two years. Okay. And you're living together super solid. So here it is.

[DJ]

Pro.

[Kat]

The dating apps can help you find love. Because we always talk about. It's a shit show. It's so frustrating. It's exhausting. It's stressful, which can be. But I loved the story when I heard it because it is a means to an end you probably would never would have met if you weren't for, like, you wouldn't cross paths anywhere. You wouldn't cross paths on Rodeo Drive. It's not your style. And. And I like that people, you know, because a lot of people, like, they lose hope. They're like, I'm never gonna do this dating app again. But I always say, like, you gotta keep putting yourself out there because your person is trying to find you. And if you give up, like, if you delete your profile, they're, you know, they're not gonna find. So yes, guys, don't lose hope, because there are amazing people on dating apps that actually want a relationship.

[DJ]

Yeah, you're right. I mean, I personally think dating apps are great. I know people don't really like them, but I do. And I think you just have to meet someone who's on the same page as you are.

[Kat]

Totally.

[DJ]

Timing and everything.

[Kat]

Yeah, I think it's. Honestly, obviously, there's a lot of crap out there. I agree. Unfortunately, a lot of gold diggers and escorts and a lot of players, but it's like finding a diamond in the sand. Right? And the only way to Find treasures if you keep looking for it.

[James]

Yeah, it's a good way for that first connection. And then I think you have to just meet. And then there's either that chemistry or that's not. And you can't really tell that over the app. It's a way to meet. And then you know it right away.

[Kat]

You have to meet, and then the story gets better. And now explaining why you reached out to Samantha, my publicist. You guys obviously sleep together, you live together, and you created something incredible. You went into business together. So this is like pretty solid.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

Do you want to tell me the story about how you came up with this idea of the sleeping dove? And we're gonna explain what the sleeping dove is because I. Not kidding, you guys like Shameless plug. Because I fell in love with them and the product because I thought it was the cutest. Because it's interesting when there's a product with a meaning behind it and a romance behind it. And this is like all around super romantic.

[DJ]

Well, so I met him when I was 48. So I always tell people it took me 48 years to find him. So I was. I love being close to him. I love him. And so. But when we went to sleep, he loves to spoon hold me, but I would get super hot in my midsection. And your midsection is such an awkward part of your body to try to cool off with the regular blanket. And so I was having a hard time sleeping because I kept sweating in that particular area. I didn't want to push him off because we love sleeping together. We love sharing the same blanket. And so one morning I woke up and I said, okay, what if we put windows in a blanket? Why can't I have windows?

[Kat]

Which sounds like crazy, but you guys actually developed and obviously very complicated engineering, so to speak, and you developed this fantastic plastic comforter. It's not really a blanket. It's a very high end comforter. With windows.

[DJ]

With windows.

[Kat]

Which is super cool because you can literally flap it open. And so, like, if you're feeling really hot and he's colder, like you're. You can flap open your window and then it cools you.

[DJ]

Yes. Each sleeper have their own windows, and you have top and bottom. So if it's your feet or your midsection, like me, and I can still cuddle next to him. Right. He can still hold me, but I can just open that flap and then it cools me off. So. And we wanted something that you didn't have to plug in or use an app to program. We just wanted Something natural.

[Kat]

Yeah. And obviously, when she told you the idea, you thought it was a really cool idea. You didn't think like, you're crazy.

[James]

No. She told me in the morning, and I knew that she'd been having trouble sleeping, and I felt for her, because I sleep like a rock. And she told me simply, like, I wish there was just a winner window. Because you like to open the window, you know, you have the fresh air and it feels great. Right?

[DJ]

Yeah.

[James]

And I'm maybe a more methodical thinker than dj, who's very emotional and very impulsive. Right. And I just started thinking about it, and the first thing I thought was, well, you know, surely someone has already invented this. Right. And I was a lawyer at one point, years and years ago. I started. I did some patent searches and stuff, and I'm like, well, this exact thing we're thinking of, no one has thought of to my age.

[Kat]

That's amazing.

[James]

And so, I don't know, over the next week or two, and then we thought, well, let's just make one.

[DJ]

Yes.

[James]

And DJ has a background in fashion and.

[DJ]

Product development.

[James]

Product development. And I have sort of a physics engineering technique.

[Kat]

So you guys drew it, like, on a piece of paper.

[DJ]

We drew.

[Kat]

Then you got, like, prototypes.

[DJ]

Yes, yes.

[Kat]

And you literally, step by step by step, made the sleeping.

[James]

When I started dating her, one thing I did not expect was that I would, at my age, like, be on my hands and knees with the scissors cutting up pieces of fabric.

[Kat]

Oh, yeah. I saw you guys showed me some pictures of you, like, literally doing everything yourself.

[James]

So we would buy comforters and cut them up and piece them together with, like. We started with tape, and then we started sewing it, and then we started hiring people to do the sewing force as they got better and better. Better.

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[James]

And so that's, like, the coolest story.

[Kat]

Because you guys are literally developing this product at home, but at the same time, it's becoming a real business.

[DJ]

It is. It is. And it worked. And was like, okay, this. This actually works. These windows work. Now we just have to figure out how to mass produce this.

[James]

Yeah. It's not just that it worked. It was, you know, it was a sort of a clever idea. Right?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

But when you start sleeping under it, it really changes the way you sleep because you don't have to move the blanket at all. You just literally flap it open.

[DJ]

Yeah.

[James]

Flip open either the one on your midsection or your lower, and it just folds over. And then when you get cool, you just flip it right back so you stay Swaddled the whole time. You're completely covered because when you open.

[Kat]

In different temperatures, but you can cool.

[James]

Off or warm up. And it changed our sleep. And then we started giving out prototypes to people to test. And we learned there's all sorts of other. Other.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[James]

People that love it.

[Kat]

Like mothers, people, women going through menopause, people that sleep with their dogs, such as myself. Because I want to be bundled up. My big dog, Phoenix always wants to be on top. My little guy wants to be like under the little window. So, yeah, it's great for. And you did a video on your Instagram of your dog and your cat is the cutest thing. So it's basically like anybody that. And you know, there's a lot of couples doing sleep divorce.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

They're sleeping in separate bedrooms. Exactly. So the Sleeping Dove. I love the name. Sleeping Dove is a great option for people to stay still, sleep. Sleep together. If they have different temperature. Let's. Let's get. Grab one, guys. If you're listening to the audio episode, please go to the YouTube because we're gonna dump the. The video there. Cat on the Loose show. Because you gotta see it because it's so adorable. And you can go to their Instagram as well. It's Sleeping Dove home.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

So you gu. Actually see this. Let's open this box. Let's open this box. James, open for me.

[James]

Open this one.

[Kat]

Oh, this one is the gray one, right? You brought one that is open. So no, we're not gonna destroy the packaging is like super high end.

[DJ]

Thank you. Yes, yes.

[Kat]

Super high end.

[DJ]

High quality.

[Kat]

It's like 100 cotton.

[DJ]

Yes. 100% cotton.

[Kat]

It's 100 cotton.

[James]

And it's absolutely. One thing we decided was we were only going to use the very best materials you could find.

[Kat]

And I'm very finicky. I told you with my bedding. I'm super picky. And opened it, I was like, yeah, this is insanely soft. I want to show you guys baffle box construction. Yeah, look, this is the window. Like literally underneath is like a light, like a sheet type thing. And if you're cold, you close the window. And there is one on the upper body and there is a window on the lower body.

[DJ]

Exactly.

[Kat]

Because like you said, some people like, oh, my feet are cold. So like no excuse for anybody in low body love to not sleep exactly together anymore. And the quality is like, oh, yeah.

[James]

We decided not to try and cut any corners on it. And so we used the very best, like the best down.

[Kat]

No, obviously it's Very high expensive to just get the. Oh my God. I'm very bougie with my bedding. You know, my sheets are Freddy, you know, fretted Italian. Yeah, that's why I'm telling you. No kidding. I only partner with stuff that I believe in and that I would use myself because I don't. It. Because I think, you know, when we have people out there, I don't want to tell people to. To buy something that I wouldn't use myself. So no kidding. When I got it out of the box, I was like, yes, this is fancy. Like a five star hotel type bedding. It's really fabulous cotton. You guys did an incredible job. And now you on top of being in love and a Bumble happy story. And by the way, Bumble is not sponsoring this podcast, so you're welcome. Bumblebee, right? Yeah, we should have reached that.

[DJ]

No, I say please join. If you trying to find love, give it a chance.

[Kat]

No, totally. Like, I do my Bumble, like, I take breaks. You know, the man. I do my man diets for many months, but I jump in like, okay, you know, every once in a while you gotta go for it. Seriously. Yeah, totally. But you guys are building an amazing business together.

[James]

Yes, it's very exciting. And we didn't. I had no idea what kind of trouble I was getting into when I decided to meet dj, but it's been a great ride.

[Kat]

But now you guys sleep snuggled like a spoon under the sleeping dove.

[DJ]

Yes, we sleep together. And I'm not sweating in my midsection anymore. And when I do, I just open the window. It's more your feet for you.

[James]

Yeah.

[DJ]

Yes.

[James]

Yeah. The other thing, some people don't like the weight on their feet. And so you can flip this off of your feet. And so, you know, there are two sort of conflicting things that people need when they sleep. One is this, like, what's it called? You need to feel swaddled. You want to be covered. And it's like a very primitive instinct. Right?

[Kat]

I do.

[James]

But at the same time, you have this thermoregulatory system where you want to be at the right temperature.

[Kat]

Yeah, totally.

[James]

And there are just no other solutions that do both. They keep you completely covered. Yeah. But they allow you to thermoregulate where you need it almost instantly. And it doesn't have any wires or.

[Kat]

No, listen, you guys were crazy inspired because like I said, it's an adorable idea. And like people with pets, the little dogs can be under da da na. Sometimes guys feel hotter, you know, like, and they you know, they don't want to cover. They can move, and the girl feels colder. This is, like, great for every. And like you were saying, for expectant mothers, it's not just for couples in love. You guys created something amazing for a lot of people out there.

[DJ]

Thank.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[DJ]

And we just love that. It is just natural. It's easy to use. Anybody can use it.

[Kat]

And I think the message as well, like, if you're a couple and you're in love, you should collaborate. You should do. I totally believe in power couples. You know, some people say, like, don't work together. Don't do it. Like, why not? Like, you know, if you're feeding off of each other and you can create something incredible together, like, you guys are doing.

[DJ]

Right.

[Kat]

Why not? It just solidifies what you're doing, you know?

[DJ]

Yeah. I did discover we're very complementary to each other in terms of. Because he's great in math. Right. And I'm more the creative type. Right. So, like, when I told him the idea, he. He. He made it for me. Right. Because there's a lot of math involved in.

[Kat]

God, I'm sure. And you did it, guys. Congratulations. This is such a heartwarming story, and I wish you guys all the success in the world. I. I think I told you. I can see this brand getting huge. Huge. And from the. The Sleeping Dove comforter, maybe you can create more products.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

With the same idea. It's patent pending. I know. And if you guys are watching the video episode, then you want to get one, which I highly recommend, by the way. It's Sleeping Dove dot com. Yes. And on Insta is Sleeping Dove home. And you guys can check out the videos. You guys are on the videos. You're such a beautiful couple. Congratulations. And I think you, you know, I hope anybody out there that was giving up online love.

[DJ]

Yes.

[Kat]

Now they're gonna be like, yes, I'm gonna give this a whirl.

[DJ]

I want to say it doesn't matter how old you are. Truly, you can find love.

[Kat]

Yeah. I don't think people put, like, an expiration date on love, on finding love. Right. Especially I think now that we're more mature, we know better what we want.

[DJ]

Right. Right.

[Kat]

We know we're not gonna make the same mistakes that we did when we were, like, 20 or 30. Right. So you're like, more like, okay, I know what I want, and I know what I want in a party partner.

[DJ]

Right.

[Kat]

So that's the. The positive about it. And you guys are smiling. Like, if you listen to the. The audio episode. Make sure you go watch the videos because they have, like, the biggest smile. Obviously, you're super happy. This was amazing, guys. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Get inspired. Never give up on love sleeping, though. I'm so proud of you.

[DJ]

Thank you.