DATING DECODED with Dr. DAN ROSENFELD PHD

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kat on the Loose

Episode: DATING DECODED with Dr. DAN ROSENFELD PhD

Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Dr. Dan Rosenfeld, Psychologist, Dating Coach, and Author
Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid, high-energy episode, Kat Zammuto welcomes Dr. Dan Rosenfeld to unpack the chaos, pitfalls, and hopes of modern dating. The conversation ranges from cognitive biases and the narrative of “dating doomsday” to practical advice for building healthy relationships, breaking free from toxic patterns, and navigating the minefield of red flags and love-bombing. Kat is, as always, unfiltered and passionate, while Dr. Dan brings well-grounded psychological insights and practical tools.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Dating is Dead” Narrative

• Kat’s Opening Concern: Kat rails against the negativity pervading dating discourse on social media, where influencers and supposed “coaches” declare dating or real love to be dead.
• Dr. Dan’s Analysis (04:05):
  • Such cynicism blends “part truth and part cognitive bias.”
  • “We’re just inundated with so much negativity because that’s what algorithms... disseminate more. And so seeing all this negativity, we just don’t see the positive as much.”
  • Much like moral panics about the decline of society, “dating has always had a lot of problems,” but social media magnifies them.

2. Singlehood: Good, Bad, and Toxic

• Good Single, Bad Single (06:11):
  • Dr. Dan distinguishes between “good single” (intentional, self-aware) and “toxic single” (a self-fulfilling prophecy driven by cynicism or trauma):
    • “There’s good single... you just know that you’re not meant to be in a relationship… And then there’s toxic single: self-fulfilling prophecy where you’re like, nobody out there is good and I’m obviously fucking great and no one’s going to see my worth...” (06:53)
  • “Part of that’s because you have the mindset that you’re gonna be single forever.”
  • Both agree therapy is useful for most people with recurring toxic patterns.

3. Trauma, Trust, and Overcoming Cynicism

• On Moving Past Heartbreak (09:01):
  • Kat asks about how to trust after betrayal (“How do you shift the mindset after being cheated on?”).
  • Dr. Dan discusses the “overgeneralization” cognitive bias:
    • “If you go to the grocery store and you get a bad apple... I’m never going to eat apples again. That’s a ridiculous conclusion.” (09:31)
  • The importance of not letting those who’ve wronged us “win” by closing ourselves to future happiness.

4. Modern Dating Traps:

• Common Pitfalls (12:13):
  • Kat brings up “future faking, ghosting, mind games, breadcrumbing, love bombing.”
  • Spotting Red Flags:
    • Dr. Dan: “The best way to spot these toxic dating patterns is to look for how the other person communicates early on... Is it consistent, is it reliable, and is it honest?” (12:13)
    • Despite best efforts, “You don’t know a lot of these things until you experience it,” so be “cautiously optimistic.” (12:56)

5. The Love Bombing Dilemma

• Charisma Can Be a Red Flag (15:24):

  • “One of the things women are most attracted to... is charisma. And charisma is one of the key indicators... that someone might be a love bomber.”
  • Ask: “How soon is this person giving me floods of affection... is it unique to who I am as a person or just what I represent to them?” (15:24)

• Love vs. Infatuation (16:49):

  • “There’s no such thing as love at first sight. There’s such thing as infatuation at first sight... They have a mental preoccupation very similar to how addiction works on a neurological level…”

• (18:00) Dr. Dan confirms that the three-to-six month mark is a critical transition: “Three to six months is actually the phase where you go from early infatuation... to conflict resolution.”

6. Being at Peace With Yourself

• Need vs. Want (20:30):
  • Kat: “I want a partner. I don’t need a partner.”
  • Dr. Dan: “There’s a big difference between needing and wanting a relationship. If you feel as though you need it, you’re not ready for it.” (20:38)
  • Being single should be a “peaceful time,” not mistaken for loneliness or failure.

7. Breaking free from Toxic Relationships

• On Leaving Long-Term, Abusive Partnerships (22:11):
  • The more your lives are intertwined (cohabitation, finances, children), the harder it is to leave.
  • “Every day that you stay in a miserable, unhappy, toxic, unhealthy relationship is just a day wasted.” (23:54)
  • Beware of “delusional optimism” and the fallacy that “things will get better.”

8. The Futility of “Dating Games”

• Authenticity vs. Games (25:29):

  • Kat: “A healthy relationship... you should not need games, tactics, plans, all this BS...”
  • Dr. Dan: “The opposite of games are authenticity... Do you want to build a relationship inauthenticity?” (25:34)

• Toxic Dating Advice (26:03):

  • People want band-aid solutions ("wait 12 hours to text"), but these are “little band aids for massive wounds, and it’s not going to work.” (26:03)

• On the “Too Busy” Excuse:

  • Dr. Dan: “If it’s just ‘I’m so busy’, open-ended... that person is breadcrumbing you.” (27:10)
  • Self-respect means not chasing those who don’t prioritize you.

9. Chasing and Validation

• On Convincing Someone to Like You (29:42):
  • “If you’re trying to convince somebody to like you... you don’t like yourself enough. You have to take a break from dating... build self love.”
  • “All that liking somebody means is they light up your dopamine receptors. Yeah, so does crack cocaine. That’s not a good signal.” (30:57)

10. The Limits of “Just Be Yourself”

• On Authenticity and Nervousness (32:14):
  • Dr. Dan: "‘Just be yourself’ is like telling a drowning person to swim… A lot of people don’t know how to be themselves because... so much in society has told them how not to be themselves." (32:15)
  • Practical advice: set digital and personal boundaries, limit toxic media, use therapy to rediscover authenticity.

11. Mindset for First Dates

• Mindset Shift (36:01):

  • “Change failure and success thinking to compatibility or not compatibility thinking.” The date is not an audition; it’s about discovering mutual compatibility. (36:25)

• Honesty over “Marketing” (37:58):

  • “Dating is marketing. But... it has to be honest, thoughtful advertising. Lying is manipulative marketing. Lying is never good.” (38:06)

12. Mixed Signals & Self Respect

• Mixed signals = Clear signals of disinterest (40:27):
  • “Mixed signals are clear signals of disinterest.” (40:27)
  • “If you don’t have clarity on somebody’s intentions... what are they really providing you with?” (40:53)
  • Chasing ambiguity erodes peace, self-respect, standards, and sanity.

13. Instincts and Listening to Yourself

• On Following Instinct (43:03):
  • Instinct is valuable for assessing safety (“This person is safe or not”).
  • For compatibility, time and repeated exposure count more than snap judgments.

14. Dr. Dan’s Book and Resources

• Book Plug (46:44):
  • Dr. Dan’s book “The Confidence Equation: Three Keys to Unleashing Self-Confidence as an Introvert”
  • Find him on Instagram: @dr.dan.phd

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Love Bombing and Charisma:

  • “Extremely charismatic people who are just so confident and charismatic, able to charm you over, that’s a big sign that it might be love bombing… Is it because of me or because of what I represent to them?” (15:24) – Dr. Dan

• On Needing vs. Wanting:

  • “If you feel that you need a relationship to be happy, that relationship is not going to make you happy.” (20:38) – Dr. Dan

• On Modern Dating ‘Games’:

  • “The opposite of games are authenticity… games are inherently inauthentic. Right. So do you want to build a relationship inauthenticity? Of course not.” (25:34) – Dr. Dan

• On Convincing People to Like You:

  • “All that liking somebody means is they light up your dopamine receptors. Yeah, so does crack cocaine. That’s not a good signal.” (30:57) – Dr. Dan

• On Mixed Signals:

  • “Mixed signals are clear signals of disinterest.” (40:27) – Dr. Dan

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:05] Dr. Dan discusses “dating doomsday” and cognitive bias
• [06:11] “Good single” vs. “toxic single”
• [09:01] How to trust after heartbreak; overgeneralization bias
• [12:13] Red flags and modern dating traps
• [15:24] Charisma as a love bombing red flag
• [18:00] Why the 3–6 month mark is pivotal in relationships
• [20:30] Need vs. want; peace in singlehood
• [22:11] Why it’s hard to leave long, toxic relationships
• [25:34] Authenticity vs. games
• [27:10] The “too busy” excuse as breadcrumbing
• [29:42] Chasing validation and its harm
• [32:14] Limits of “just be yourself”
• [36:25] Shifting mindset on first dates: compatibility over performance
• [38:06] Honesty and authenticity in dating “marketing”
• [40:27] Mixed signals and self-respect
• [43:03] When and how to trust your instincts
• [46:44] Dr. Dan's book: The Confidence Equation

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Episode Takeaways

• Recognize patterns and mindsets: Negativity and cynicism in dating are magnified but not new. Self-awareness is crucial.
• Self-love is foundational: Need should never replace want in relationships; self-respect makes setting boundaries easier.
• Red flags matter: Breadcrumbing, love bombing, and mixed signals are warning signs not to be rationalized away.
• Authenticity wins over “dating tactics”: Games and dishonesty only breed insecurity and short-term wins at best.
• Cultivate peace in being single: Happiness and fulfillment don’t require a relationship; it should be a bonus, not a requirement.
• Growth mindset: Learning from mistakes is more important than never making them.

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For further info, check Dr. Dan’s IG (@dr.dan.phd) and Kat’s ongoing episodes and YouTube channel.
Final thought:
"Never give up on love." (47:42) — Kat Zammuto & Dr. Dan Rosenfeld

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Thank you Cat. Good to be here.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming over. I'm very excited to talk to you. Likewise, not only your dating coach, but you're also PhD. So, you know, I, I feel like you can help us figure out the chaos that dating has become. A little better than most people.

[B]

It's definitely chaotic.

[A]

Right. And as I was saying, you're doing such a fantastic job on your Instagram. There's so many amazing insights. I have a lot I want to pack in. So let's rock and roll.

[B]

Let's pack it.

[A]

Okay. I want to start with something that has been my opinion lately and I want to know if you agree with me or not. I see a lot of posts on social media, like some influencers, some dating coaches, quote unquote, you some a girl, a 29 year old girl that wrote a book saying really negative things about dating and love and relationships. Basically a lot of women telling other women, like, I'm gonna be single forever, there are no good men out there. The other, this girl, this 29 year old girl, she was like, oh, dating is dead. Nobody's gonna do that. And I'm like, whoa, that. I think that's a, a gross exaggeration. And I don't like the narrative because I'm a huge believer in love and going for it. How do you feel about that? Do you see that as well? And what do you think about it?

[B]

It's the. People are talking about the doomsday of dating, right? Exactly. Yeah. I think this is kind of analogous to like, there's research showing that people think that morals have gone out the window with society today. There's psychological studies showing that people think that today humans are a lot less moral than they've ever been before.

[A]

Really?

[B]

And that's similar to people thinking that dating is harder today. It's part truth, it's part cognitive bias. So the reason people think that morality is so bad today is that we have more news cycles, we have more nuanced problems, and that creates this idea that things are really bad today. And there are a lot of bad things, but morality, like dating, has always had a lot of problems. And today I do think that there are a lot of things about dating that are worse, a lot of things that are more difficult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you look at my Instagram, you will see, you will see there are a lot of negative experiences.

[A]

We're gonna talk a lot about that.

[B]

Yeah. But I think that it's part truth and it's part like, narrative, it's part availability heuristics as we call it in psychology, where we're just inundated with so much negativity because that's what algorithms on social media that's what news cycles disseminate more, it gets more reach. And so seeing all this negativity, we just don't see the positive as much.

[A]

Yeah. And I feel, and I'm not a doctor, it's just my observation, these women that are putting posts out there like I'm gonna be single forever. You great to be single forever. And there are no good men out there and dating is dead. I think it's their own issues, their own unresolved chaos and they're trying to project in an audience because it makes them feel better. You know, if you're feeling like shit and you have an audience like, okay, at least I'm not feeling like shit by myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't think it's a good idea like the message they're sending to other women.

[B]

Yeah. I wouldn't. Well, there are two things of being single is one, there's good single and bad single. Yeah. So good single is because you just know that you're not meant to be in a long term relationship. There's nothing wrong with that. Be single if that's. You don't force yourself to be in a relationship. And then there's of course good single in short term to understand yourself, to heal before you get back out there and date. But there's also a bad single which is toxic single. It's self fulfilling prophecy where you're like, nobody out there is good and I'm obviously fucking great and no one's going to see my worth and so I'm gonna be single forever. Like guess what Part of that's because you have the mindset that you're gonna be single forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have the mindset that everyone out there is horrible and that creates a self fulfilling prophecy a lot of the time.

[A]

Yeah. And people like that very like probably should go see a therapist. Right.

[B]

I think most people should go see a therapist.

[A]

I don't know. But I feel that. No, I agree, I agree that part. But I, and I also feel same. I always say I'm not an expert, I'm not a doctor. It's just my vibe on things. I think whatever you decide for yourself becomes your reality.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So like if you decide all men suck, like everybody out there sucks. I've been heartbroken once. I'm never going to trust anybody again. Okay, great. Then that's what you're going to get.

[B]

That's right. People with trust issues find people who are not trustworthy today. And if you go on a date thinking that everybody, you know let's say you live in la, you date in LA and you go, every guy in LA sucks. And then you go on a date with a guy from la. You're not going to be looking for the reasons of why he's a great person. Your mind is going to be looking to validate your pre existing belief that this guy probably sucks so that you can go back to your friends and say, see, I told you I was right. And so that you can literally go back to your own mind and say, I was right all along, of course I was right. And people look for the evidence that supports their preexisting beliefs.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't think that's a good idea because I'm a huge believer in never giving up on love. But that's a question. Thank you. That's a question that I get a lot and I don't know how to answer. Maybe you can help us. Like, a lot of women send me this, but men too, they're like, oh, but I was heartbroken. Like, she cheated on me, he cheated on me. My guard is up. Like, how am I going to trust again? I don't care. Now they have this mindset, like, you know, it's going to happen to me again. I cannot trust. Everybody's a cheater. La la la. Is there any tricks or ideas or suggestions? Like, how do you shift the mindset to say, you know what, just because somebody did something wrong to me doesn't mean the next person is going to do the same.

[B]

Well, yeah, this is literally a cognitive bias called overgeneralization where you take one case and then say, because I have this experience with this one case, I am going to assume that every case in that category, maybe the category is men, maybe women, maybe human, are going to be exactly like that case. So if you go to the grocery store and you get a bad apple and then you're like, I ate an apple today, that was horrible. I'm never going to eat apples again. That's ridiculous. Conclusion.

[A]

I love that analogy.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

You cannot think that all the fruit is spoiled because one fruit is spoiled.

[B]

Exact. You have to realize that in every scenario there's going to be hopefully a small percentage that are toxic, spoiled, bad. When you encounter those cases, you don't go, every case is like that because it's just not true. You go, maybe some cases are like that. I will avoid those cases. I might not know those cases exist until I experience them, but when I do, I'm not going to, you know, be in contact with that person further, and you look elsewhere.

[A]

Yeah. And I also, for me, from my experience, and I always say that on the podcast, if somebody did something really bad to you, like, let's say you've been cheated on, it's very painful. Right. It's horrible. But if you give up on love and you decide, like, I'm never going to be in a good relationship again, basically you're letting that bad person win, so to speak. Like, basically, like, you said the apple. Like, okay, that apple was spoiled. I love apples, but I'm never going to eat an apple again. Like, congratulations, you let that crap win. And I always say, like, I don't want to let the cycles I dated win. You know what I mean? The love game.

[B]

And that's where I would say, that person didn't win. The cycle won. Yes, people, there's no winners and losers with people in dating. There are winners and losers with ourself versus our mind. And if you are not winning, it means that your mind is winning and your mind's toxic patterns are winning.

[A]

I love that. But is there a way, Like, I know a lot of people out there listening. They're like, I don't care. I'm being burned. I don't want to get burned again. Is there an easy way to shift that mindset?

[B]

You have to find somebody who's very safe. You have to be with somebody who re teaches you the lessons you've learned previously. So you can't heal in the same place where you were harmed, so you can't date the same kind of people who gave you that narrative in the first place.

[A]

Yeah, I totally. You gotta give it a chance.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. You did a post on your social media that I really loved. I took a few notes because I didn't want to forget about it. Modern dating traps, right? I think all of us have been through this at one time or another, such as future faking. You're gonna help me explain what that is. Ghosting. Which is horrible, Right? I think we've all been ghosted. Mind games. Breadcrumbing. Which is also horrible. Giving you the bare, bare bare minimum. Nobody wants crumbs. Love bombing, of course. Which is like giving you too much too soon, and you don't really mean it. And then you bur out. Right? How do we. Or if there is a way to avoid being a victim of all of this, is there a way to spot it?

[B]

The best way to spot these toxic dating patterns is to look for how the other person communicates early on. So when you meet them, which maybe that's in person, through friends, through a dating app, look for their communication pattern. Is it consistent, is it reliable, and is it honest? And does it seem authentic? Does it seem curious to get to know you or does it seem like a ploy to win you over? What is the person's goal here? Hopefully their goal should be genuine connection. And that's an ulterior motive, like to gain power manipulation or to make their attention a currency that they want you to seek. I would say as well, the hard truth is you don't know a lot of these things until you experience it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you have to be cautiously optimistic. You have to not be pessimistic, but not be blind eyed optimism. And so you have to put yourself out there and experience some toxic people perhaps, and have a good intuition of knowing when to step away from those people.

[A]

I totally agree with you. And I think especially for women, it's hard to spot love bombing because when we meet someone, you know, you love that attention. Right. If the guy's like all over you, making plan. Oh, my God, you're amazing, Anna. It feels so good. We have a tendency of, like, letting the guard down. Hey, guys, make sure you enter the room dick first. Bluechew isn't just a tablet. It's a cheat code for your crotch. Stronger, harder, longer lasting. Like someone gave your downstairs a pep talk and major gym membership. Bluechew is the original brand offering chewable tablets for much better sex. And ladies, if you're listening, tell your guys about it. Because who doesn't want a partner who can perform better in bed and last longer? I think that's every woman's dream, right? Guys? This isn't just about performance. This is about legacy or third leg. See? Give her group chat. Something to talk about. You know, when you lay low, they're talking about how it gets up. Nothing makes you more of a legend than a little blue chew. Discover your options [e-mail] and take your sex life to the next level. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. As always, get your first month of Bluetooth free. Just use promo code cat K a T at checkout and pay five bucks for shipping. That's it. Join Bluetooth's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. Head to bluetooth.com now for details and safety info. And big thanks to Bluetooth for sponsoring the podcast. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that Brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th, and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] how do you know the difference? Like, oh, wow, this guy is really into me. Or maybe this is a little much.

[B]

Well, you know what's really interesting is, so since you mentioned women getting love bombed, is that one of the things that women are most attracted to, especially in men, is charisma. And charisma is one of the key indicators that would perhaps, you know, show that somebody might be a love bomber or at least be able to get away with it. So extremely charismatic people who are just so confident and charismatic, able to charm you over, that's a big sign that it might be love bombing. If that charisma is not paired with genuine interest in getting to know you, you also have to ask, how soon is this person giving me floods of affection and interest? Is it soon enough that it is simply because I am a person they are dating, or is it late enough that it is unique to who I am as a person? Is it because of me or because of what I represent to them?

[A]

Wow, that's. That's very, very, very good insight. I personally think it's almost impossible or impossible to, like, fall madly in love with someone that you just met like, two weeks into it, four weeks into it. Right. I had one of my best guy friends, he was dating this girl, and like, two weeks into is like, oh, I'm madly in love with her. I'm like, you can't love. You barely get to know someone. Right. What do we.

[B]

There's no such thing as love at first sight. There's such thing as infatuation at first sight.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

There's such a big difference. So people cannot fall in love at first sight, but they believe they are in love because they are so infatuated. So they have a mental preoccupation very similar to how addiction works on a neurological level with somebody they meet the moment they meet them. Because that person, it could literally be as simple as their scent and a very subconscious, hormonal or other scent that their body's giving off that clicks in our brain like pheromones. It could be nonverbal body language that that person gives off that reminds you of someone you knew many decades ago. It could be even a caregiver. There are so many of these subconscious Things that spark early attraction in ways that are not love. They are infatuation and can very much resemble addictive cycles.

[A]

Yeah. So what do you suggest? Like, let's say you meet someone and you really like that person. And I hear that all the time, I love him, I love, that's my person. You suggest like pace it, like take your time for like I say, at least the first 90 days are a good. Right. It's a good timeline in terms of getting to know the person.

[B]

Yeah, it's awesome you say 90 days because that's three months, which is regarded as three to six months is a transition cycle from early dating to more mid dating. And so three to six months is actually the phase in dating where you go from early infatuation in butterflies in fantasyland to the conflict resolution stage where you're seeing, do you have the potential to resolve conflict with this person. That's why a lot of breakups happen between three to six months. Yeah, a lot of early breakups. They're kind of two main waves of early breakups and one is about three to six months. And those couples are not able to go from honeymoon infatuation, lovey dovey vibes to conflict resolution and deeper connection. There's also another wave at around two years where two years is a point at which the longer term infatuation starts to wear off. And it's a time at which you transition from a long term relationship into what we might consider an ultra long term relationship. And that's also a pivotal breaking point.

[A]

Yeah, I think the first few months, at least for me, I don't want to say I love you too quickly. I think that's a red flag.

[B]

Yeah. That's a key sign of love bombing is saying I love you within the first few months.

[A]

Yeah. Like, oh, you're the woman of my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like they just, they, they take you on three, four days. Like, oh my God. Yeah.

[B]

Have you had. I think that.

[A]

Yes, I have. I've been burned. Yeah. Yes, I've been burned and bombed and bound. Yeah, burned and bombed. But now I'm like, you know, I like to say I learned from my mistakes. Right. You don't want to keep making the same mist.

[B]

We should all be more like Cat, everyone listening. Learn from your mistakes, please, because you're making a lot of mistakes.

[A]

How many times have we made those mistakes?

[B]

It doesn't matter. No matter how many times. I mean, you don't want to make 3,000 mistakes. It's a matter of. Are they the same mistakes?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Are you making the same mistake over and over?

[A]

No, I think at this point, Dr. Dan, I have made all the mistakes at least once. So at this point, I'm like, okay, I'm done making mistakes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is why I'm so. Like, first of all, I think it's really important. I learned how to be really, really happy with myself.

[B]

I think that's so important.

[A]

Right. I always say that if you learn how. Because so many women are afraid of being alone, they keep jumping from one dude to the next and simply because they're so afraid of being alone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think if you learn, like, for me, this was a journey, but I. I realized, like, I love my company. I love my life. I am so fulfilled. I don'. Need a partner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want a partner. So that's a very peaceful. Like, it lets you chill in terms of dating. Like, you're not gonna take any crap.

[B]

No. It's what you said there for the first, that. That's right. That's exactly right. And there are so many things that you said there to unpack. Is. The first thing is that there's a big difference between needing and wanting a relationship. And so if you're in a place where you feel as though you need it, you're not ready for it, you have to want it. You cannot feel as though you need it. And this isn't about being chased versus being the chaser. This is a game with yourself. This is. If you feel that you need a relationship to be happy, that relationship is not going to make you happy. It is going to make you cling to an illusion of happiness that only comes from outside of yourself. So that's the first thing. And I think that you have to as well, find peace in singlehood, that being single has to be a peaceful time. Because there are a lot of people who, unfortunately, would rather be in a chaotic relationship than a peaceful singlehood.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because loneliness. And again, being single is not loneliness, but people think that it is. And the idea that solitude, loneliness, being on your own is so scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That they'd rather be in an abusive relationship than be healthy and feel in solitude at times.

[A]

How do you break the pattern? Because I completely agree with you. I know a lot of women, I know a lot of couples like that. Right. I get messages from people from all over the world. They're like, oh, I'm in this miserable marriage, but I don't have the balls to get out. I was married for 15 years. Took me 15 years to get the hell out of the super abusive Marriage. And so people ask me, how do I do it? How do I start over? What's the first step?

[B]

It's so hard, I mean, getting out of it. The longer the relationship, the harder it is to get out. And more than the amount of time you're together, the more intertwined your lives are, the harder it is. If you are living together, that is a massive, massive hurdle than if you are in a long term relationship but not cohabitating and living separately. A big thing is how intertwined your finances are. That's huge. Especially for women who tend to have, if they're with a man, they might control more of the money perhaps, or at least have the threat of more control. There are of course, threats that exist with leaving. If you have kids together, that's perhaps the biggest barrier. And then if you're married versus not married, you have legal systems, so you have legal financial, housing, children, so many different systems that are going to keep you in a bad relationship. And so the fewer of those systems you have, the easier it is. And this is all about how you have to understand what that relationship feels like, why you are in it, and whether it is nourishing you or depleting you soon, ideally within a few months, definitely a year or two of dating. And it's so hard to let that go on for years and years. And when you do get to that point, it's so much harder to get out. So it's amazing that you did, for example, and a lot of other people who do.

[A]

It is amazing. But I always say, I hope nobody waits as long as I did because like you said, the longer you wait, the harder it gets. And nowadays looking back, I always think that doesn't matter how hard it is. Every day that you stay in a miserable, unhappy, toxic, unhealthy relationship is just a day wasted.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

As opposed to building a new life and trying to find the right person for you. Right?

[B]

That's right. I think a lot of people have a like, like delusional optimism that can lead them into longer term relationships that are not going well. There's always a belief a lot of people subscribe to where things will get better, this person will change, they'll get better, I'll tolerate more of their bullshit and, you know, feel better about it. And none of those things are true. Whatever situation you're currently in a relationship, unless you're going through a rough patch, odds are it's probably the best it's going to be. And unless you're both willing to put in Work. It's not going to get better on its own.

[A]

Yeah, totally agree. Now I want to ask you something and you tell me if you think I'm crazy, because a lot of my inner circle, they think like, I'm totally the Lulu. I. I see the. The world with this rose, rose color landscape.

[B]

You see some of my comments on.

[A]

Instagram, but this is nowadays, this is how I feel. I know they're there because of social media, right? Everybody calls themselves an expert. Everybody calls itself a dating coach. La, la la, la la. And they keep. Like, for example, there are a lot of posts like this, this is what you should do to make him call you. Don't do this, don't do that. This is how you marry a rich guy. This is how you And I always laugh because in my mind, I think a healthy relationship, like when two people want to be together, that's it. You should not need games, tactics, plans, all this bs, which is freaking exhausting. Right?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Do you agree?

[B]

I absolutely agree. You know what the opposite of games are? Authenticity.

[A]

Authenticity.

[B]

So, like, games are inherently inauthentic. Right. So do you want to build a relationship inauthenticity? Of course not.

[A]

And yet so many women do it because these dating coaches are literally telling them, like, for example, the texting back, like, oh, make him wait 12 hours or a day, play hard to get. Like, it is exhaustive.

[B]

It's horrible. Yeah.

[A]

But yet most women are doing that.

[B]

Well, people want simple solutions to big problems, right? So dating is a big problem and wait 12 hours to text them back is a simple solution. But guess what? That's an illusion. Where are there simple solutions to massive complicated problems? Not often. So I think people are looking for little band aids for massive wounds, and it's not going to work. People are intrigued by this advice because it gives them an escape from their own struggle. And that escape is always temporary.

[A]

I'm so glad you agree with me because I feel the right person for us. Right? Like the right person for me. It doesn't matter when I text, when I don't text.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

What I do, they're gonna wanna make plans with me and be with me and communicate with me.

[B]

Yeah, right, Absolutely.

[A]

Do you agree that that phrase, I'm too busy is a massive red flag?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. There. I mean, there are two kinds of, you know, busy text that you might get. One is genuine, like, oh, this is a really busy week at work. Here's the key thing that needs to come after that. Are you available Next Thursday at this time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If it's just I'm so busy, open ended, there's, there's nothing. That person is breadcrumbing you. They are not actually following up and they're not actually going to be interested or if they are interested, they're not going to make you a priority in your life. And of course in relationship, you should not be this grand number one priority to each other where you sacrifice the entirety of your single lives individually. But you need to be to some degree a priority in the sense that they will give you the time, energy and space and investment that you need to actually build something.

[A]

I love that. I think if somebody says, I'm too busy, I'm busy, the rest of the phrase is for you.

[B]

That's right. And if you want to, you know, be a little savage, text them back busy until when? And see what they say.

[A]

Right. And even like if I felt, well, I would never even entertain it. Like I said, I'm in my, like my me era. I don't want to entertain this little. Yes, exactly. So I'm like, you know, I'm so true and so happy. Like the right person for me is magically going to appear whenever. If not, I'm very happy the way things are. But if somebody said to me, oh, I'm so busy, I'd be like, whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would never even try to respond.

[B]

You know what that's called? That's called self respect.

[A]

Yeah, right. Boundaries. Right. Self love, which is one of the toughest lessons.

[B]

If someone tells you they're too busy for you, the worst thing you can do is chase them or try to convince them that they're not busy enough for you. That's ridiculous. That's what most people do.

[A]

And a lot of people do that. Right. How do you stop from doing that?

[B]

Well, then guess what? When someone texts them, oh, I'm too busy, you know, and they pursue this person and maybe they actually win, maybe they convince that person to date them. What happens a few months later? Oh, they weren't, I wasn't a priority to them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you know, where did this come? It's head of nowhere. Well, guess what? The first day you met them, they told you they were too busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a lot of these red flags are there all along, but they can sound very genuine and honest at first.

[A]

But listen to the red flags, right?

[B]

Listen to the red flags.

[A]

Listen to the red flags. Somebody out there listening, they're like, oh, but you know, I like Him. And how do you stop this behavior of trying to convince. And I think you did a post about that like we shouldn't be trying to convince people to like us. It's, it's crazy. It's crazy. It is so much work. But how do you tell us, is there a way for people to stop this behavior?

[B]

Well, yeah, if you're trying to convince somebody to like you, what that might mean, the harsh truth, if you're hanging onto that, is that you don't like yourself enough. So you have to take a break from dating. You have to do the inner work, probably in therapy to actually build self love. Because if you don't actually like and love and accept yourself, you're going to constantly chase that validation from other people. Especially other people who are not going to give it to you. Because the more they resist giving to you, the more value your mind thinks that it has.

[A]

Oh my God, I love that you're brilliant. I think just the fact like if you have to tell someone, look at me, I'm so beautiful, or come on, I'm so great, or I'm this or I'm that or I'm good in bed, just the fact that you have to remind that person that person is not for you. Right, right. Because the right person for you, they're going to see all of these things with their own eyes.

[B]

Exactly. And you were saying before, you know, but, but I like them. Well, you know what I would say to that? I like french fries, but I'm not going to eat them all the time because I know they're not good for me. Yes, you can like something. That doesn't mean it's healthy for you.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta like have things under control.

[B]

All that liking somebody means is they light up your dopamine receptors. Yeah, so does crack cocaine. That's not a good signal.

[A]

No, it's not. I love that. Plus I think liking has to be a two way street, right? Liking and loving alone is beyond exhausting.

[B]

It is. And I think that liking, liking somebody is a feeling, but loving somebody is a behavior. It's a behavior and it's something that you build. Not always first experience. It's such a big difference.

[A]

Oh my God, I love that. Now I want to ask about a post that you did on social media.

[B]

Because this is always concerning.

[A]

Maybe I'm gonna get in trouble for this post because maybe I'm giving people wrong advice. This is why I always say I am not an expert by any means. I just tell you guys what I've done. What worked for me. But here is a true expert. But this is the post you did. Okay. You wrote, just be yourself is like telling a drowning person to swim. That's very profound.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So I want you to explain to me and tell me if I'm wrong. Because I constantly tell people, just be yourself. Just be yourself. Just be yourself. You know, I say that like 10 million times, I might be a little harsh. What does that mean? Can you help?

[B]

I think that there are a lot of complicated problems that people are experiencing. And whether it's their personal life, friendships, dating life, work life, where they're not sure what to do. You know, people. I'm not getting along with people. I'm not buying the right partner. I'm unhappy with this, whatever it is. And you might hear, oh, just be yourself. You know, I'm nervous about this first date. Just be yourself. It is great advice in theory. It is great advice in theory. I love it in theory. And a lot of people still need to hear it. But a lot of the time I say it is like telling somebody who's drowning to just swim. Because the obvious answer that's right there is what they're struggling to do. They don't know how to be themselves because they've had either. Society, parents, early, you know, relationships, friends, teachers, so much in society, the media that has told them how not to be themselves.

[A]

So what do you do? Like, what would you say?

[B]

What would I say? It's really hard. It's really hard. I. I would. I mean, the biggest thing is you have to block out the noise of a lot of those influences, which for people in your life is boundaries. For a lot of media and cultural dialogue is silencing notifications being better about having boundaries with your digital life and your phones and it's cutting toxic people out of your life. It's choosing which media to consume that actually makes you feel better about yourself. This is a very systemic issue. There are a lot of factors. It's knowing who to date.

[A]

Go do therapy.

[B]

It's go to therapy. Go to therapy is the answer to most of these questions that I'm trying to give. I know they're trying to give more.

[A]

Nuance and I'm trying to get like, specifically. But this is what I feel. Continuing this.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Like, you go on a date. And I know most people get so nervous. For me, that's a big turn off. Like, if I go on a date, I understand a little nervous. But if the dude is like, you know, sweating and shit, I'm Like, I'm like, so turned off. Like, come on, get your. I know I'm beautiful. I know I'm intelligent. But come on, you know, like, behave like an adult. I'll tell you how I get the pressure off of me. For me, when I go on a date, I'm like, you know what? Okay, maybe I'm gonna meet my match, but maybe I'm just gonna meet a new person. He could be a friend. I actually have clients in my PR and marketing agency that I met on a date, and I was like, yeah, I swear to God. Some of my oldest clients, we went on a date, and we were in a match. I'm like, do you wanna do business together? So I kind of, like, transform. And so in my mind, it works for me. I never get nervous. I'm just like, I'm meeting someone new. But I know most people out there, they're like, I get nervous, I get nervous. I get nervous, I get nervous. Do you have any tricks, any suggestions?

[B]

I wish we could all be like cats. I know that's a great place to be, and that's definitely where everyone wants to be, is they're confident and comfortable enough in themselves to not be nervous on a date. But the majority of people, they get nervous before a date. And I think the main two reasons why people get nervous before a date and where they can change their mindset to be more like kat is one.

[A]

Obviously, don't be like, because it's not.

[B]

Working well for me, the first one is to be beautiful.

[A]

Be super picky.

[B]

I would say the first one is that a lot of people, whether they realize it or not, they view dates like tryouts, auditions, and they think there's either success or failure. And they think that you can either succe or fail at a date, depending on whether your date is interested in you or not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is such a bad mindset to have because you need to change failure and success thinking to compatibility or not compatibility thinking.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

The goal of a first date, the purpose of a date is to see whether you are compatible or not. Not to see whether you can charm and convince this person to like you.

[A]

Yes. But that's what most people do. And we go back to the be yourself.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I give my daughter smarty pants vitamins to support her brain. So her science fair project sounds more like and less like. And while I may say it's not a competition, of course it f ing is. Choose smarty pants vitamins to support your kid's brain Health shop on Amazon, smartypantsvitamins.com or at target today. Brain health Support from key nutrients. This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Most people, they do tell little white lies. And I actually had famous. I'm not gonna name names, but it's on the episodes. I've actually had famous matchmakers, dating coaches on the show. And they're like, yeah, it's totally fine. It's marketing. Go for it. Fib. I don't think it's a good idea at all. Like, you know, some people fib about their age or, you know, their financial situation or their job or whatever. I'm like, I don't want any white. Because if I find out about it, like a month, two months down the road, I'm like, I don't like it.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

What's your take on it?

[B]

I'm 100% with you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. No. So here's where I agree with both sides in a way that makes sense.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Dating is marketing. Dating is marketing. But just because it's ready, just because it's marketing doesn't mean it has to be manipulative marketing. We're used to manipulative marketing. Marketing just means conveying your product so that people can make a decision whether to consume it or not. We need honest marketing and dating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A dating profile is an advertisement. That doesn't mean it's evil. It just means it has to be an honest, thoughtful advertisement. So lying is manipulative marketing. Lying is never good.

[A]

Even small little fibs, right? Little white lies. Right? Like, I had this lady, she was like, for women. Oh, lie about your age because you're gonna get better. Gu. And down the road, they're not gonna care. I'm like, I don't wanna lie about my age. I want my guy to be proud of me for my age and the way I look now.

[B]

Exactly. Who are you marketing? A younger version of yourself. That person doesn't exist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would say that you are going to start a relationship if it works out on a lie. Is that a good foundation to have?

[A]

No, I don't think so.

[B]

No.

[A]

I'm glad they're listening from you because I hope people out there, like, stop putting pictures from 20 years ago. Right on the dating. I think it's the best version of yourself.

[B]

Right? Yeah. And especially if your photos are that old. I mean, it's saying that you are prouder of the person you used to be than who you Are today. And that's a hard thing.

[A]

And I think when we meet someone, you want them to like you for you the way you are.

[B]

Right? Right. Yeah.

[A]

Right. Now another. You did so many posts. Oh, my God. We could do like a 10 hour episode. You guys gotta follow his Instagram. It's. No, it's very powerful. Very, like, every one of your posts is like very eye catching. Fantastic advice.

[B]

Wow. Thank you.

[A]

But this one, I really, really, really love the price of chasing mixed signals. Because I hear girls do that all the time. Does he like me? Does he not like me? Why did he come? Why did he not come? Guys do that too, right? Is she into me? No, No. I think just the fact that it's a mixed signal. You have your answer. Like, if I got a mix, that's my answer.

[B]

Absolutely no. Mixed signals are clear signals of disinterest.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're sitting by the phone, like, is he gonna take me out this weekend? Like, today's Wednesday.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is he gonna take me out on Friday? What's just the fact that you're wondering. That's your answer, right?

[B]

Yeah. If you don't have clarity on somebody's intentions towards you, then what do you have clarity on? What are they really providing you with?

[A]

Right. So here are the prices that you say. And I love that. Okay, where are my notes? Where are my notes? Oh, my God, I lost my notes here. I love that. The price of chasing mixed signals. Your peace.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Peace of mind, for sure. Self respect, your leap, your standards, your sanity. Right. Can you elaborate like on the standards? What do you mean by that?

[B]

Well, you will pursue the people that you believe you're worthy of. And so if you pursue people who give you mixed signals, which to phrase more honestly is people who don't even give you the decency to say whether they're interested or not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what their intentions and availability is, what you are saying to them and to yourself is that that is the level of communication and intention that you believe you deserve. So you reinforce low standards for yourself by chasing mixed signals.

[A]

And everything goes back to what you said before. It's all about self love.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I think that's the foundation of everything.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because and believe me, it took me forever to get here. My therapy was doing the podcast because when I listened to the first episodes of the Dudes I Dated, like, I cringe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And listening again, I'm like, why did you put up with it? Why did you put up with it? So it build my Self love. But I think that's the foundation.

[B]

And because you, you cannot, you cannot love somebody else, like more than you love yourself. You can't. I guess to phrase that better, if you don't have self love, you can't build real love in a relationship.

[A]

Oh my God, I love that you need that. Yes, I love that. Before we run out of time. See, I told you so many things to talk about. I'm gonna have to invite you for part two. Tell me if you agree with me, because same. I have experts tell me that. No, when you meet someone, let's say you go on a first date, I think the first instinct you have about that person usually is the right one.

[B]

One. Yeah.

[A]

And a lot of people told me no. Sometimes you got to give that person a chance. Or maybe they were too nervous for me. Every time that I did not follow my instincts, I get burned.

[B]

I think that this is such an important question where it's one of those things where I'm going to say again, you're both right and you're both wrong. Okay, here is how I make sense of it. Don't you love?

[A]

I love you.

[B]

You are right.

[A]

You're going to be a recurring guest. We need so much help from you.

[B]

Oh, I need help from myself. I would say that your first instinct is right if the information it's giving you pertains to safety. That's when your instinct is right. This person is safe or this person's not. That can be physical and or emotional safety. Your instinct is not always right when that pertains to compatibility.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Is this a. Is this going to be somebody who I really can be compatible with, who I might live with one day? Who. I feel like we have shared values and shared interests and we can build a good relationship together. That takes more time to figure out. But when it comes to safety, that's when instincts are really powerful.

[A]

Oh, wow. Yeah, because I know, like, and again, I get messages from email from all over the world. They go on a first date and I have girlfriends that do that too. Right? You go on a first date and it happened to me last year. You look at the guy like, you know, it's not the person for me. But then they insist, right? And you go on another date and another date and another date, and I have girlfriends that. I have a girlfriend that has been dating this guy for like four months. And she keeps saying, like, yeah, I don't really like him, but I don't know, maybe it changes. Maybe gets better, maybe. But like, you're literally going against your gut.

[B]

Yeah. In those situations, like in one sense you can be going against your gut for a bad reason, which is that you really don't like this person. You really know that they're not good for you. But you are trying to be optimistic or trying to deny that feeling for maybe because you don't want to be single or other reasons. But another thing that could be going on, which is a lot more complicated, is that you might have toxic tendencies that are kind of lying to you, saying, oh, this person's boring, they suck because of this. Or these toxic tendencies are telling you that somebody's not good for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But guess what? They're actually really good for you. It's just your toxic tendencies that are saying they're too safe, they're boring. You know, we're too compatible. Like, ew. I mean, all of the, you know, oh, this is too easy. I want to challenge all these ridiculous things that are.

[A]

Yeah, no, that I agree. But I also think wasting time with the wrong person keeps you from meeting the right person. Of course it's better to be alone and happy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than being like giving it a shot with the wrong person. Right?

[B]

Absolutely. The hardest part is knowing how long has been enough to know whether you've given a shot enough or not. Because of course like two dates isn't enough to be like, oh, is this person going to be great long term? Often you need a couple dates, a couple months. But of course like seven years is probably enough time.

[A]

No, come on, like a year is already a long time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Especially nowadays, like, come on. You wrote an incredible book. The Confidence in Equation.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Three keys to Unleashing Self Confidence as an introvert.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

Can you give us like one little.

[B]

Yeah. This is my book that's out now for pre order. The Confidence equation, which is about how to build self confidence, which most people need. That's right, most of us need that.

[A]

So go get the book. It's on Amazon. And your Insta guys follow him because like I said, you are doing such a fantastic job and your posts are so nice, organized, fantastic advice that we all need. On Instagram, it's Dr. Period Dan Period PhD and the link is here on the audio episode. If you guys are listening to the audio episode. And his website is also on, on the YouTube if you guys are watching. Thank you so much, doctor.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So much. More to talk about.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I'm sure I'm gonna invite you back because I know I'm gonna get like so many questions, but it was very helpful. I'm very grateful. I really appreciate you.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

And never give up on love, right?

[B]

Never give up on love.

[A]

Never give up on love. Guys, be safe out there. I'll see you very soon.