Divorced and Destroyed: How the System Fails Women

Summary

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Kat on the Loose: "Divorced and Destroyed: How the System Fails Women"

Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Sandra ("Sandy")
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This raw, revealing episode of Kat on the Loose dives deeply into the realities faced by everyday women in the American divorce system—especially those without money, fame, or powerful connections. Host Kat Zammuto invites Sandra onto the show, a longtime social worker and single mother of three, to share her harrowing, ongoing six-year battle for divorce in a system that, they argue, repeatedly fails women.

By spotlighting Sandy’s lived experience, Kat seeks to illuminate the ways legal processes can be manipulated to control, deplete, and emotionally exhaust women, while pledging to provide a voice for millions in similar positions.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction: Breaking the Silence on Everyday Women's Struggles

• [00:37] Kat stresses that Sandy represents “millions of women out there every single day that go through a similar situation: a really tough, absurd, unfair divorce in a very broken system.”
• The lack of celebrity or wealth makes Sandy’s story particularly poignant and representative.

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Sandy’s Background: Marriage, Work, and Reasons for Divorce

• [01:52] Sandy was married for 18 years, with three children (all now in college), and has worked as a social worker for 25 years.
  • “You make a decent salary, but it’s not a fortune.” (Kat, [03:21])
• [02:32] Reasons for divorce: infidelity, substance abuse, being left to manage family life almost entirely alone.
  • “Raising three children, working full time … prioritizing my children’s emotional, mental well-being, it was beyond too much.” (Sandy, [02:32])
• Sandy comes from an immigrant, working-class Colombian family, while her husband was raised in privilege.

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The Divorce Process: Five Years and No Resolution

• [02:19] Sandy’s divorce has been ongoing since 2020, unresolved after nearly six years.
• The main complicating factor:
  • Sandy’s husband refuses to grant the divorce as a means of “control.”
  • “When I decided to stop this and make a change and begin to voice my voice, which is very hard… I was the ideal wife, mother … but I was culturally conditioned.” (Sandy, [05:10])
• Her husband leverages his wealthy family’s resources to extend and complicate litigation.

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Legal System Abuse and Financial Manipulation

• [06:11-08:41] The process has included:
  • Four to five mediations, multiple settlement conferences, two courthouses, two judges, and repeated legal stalling (via continuances, non-submission of documents).
  • Sandy was left solely responsible for mortgage, bills, property taxes, and all child-related expenses.

“He found a very creative way to abuse me emotionally and mentally was by using the judicial system and constantly requesting continuances.” (Sandy, [07:36])

• [09:32] When court-ordered to pay child support in 2023, Sandy’s husband quit his job (allegedly laid off) to avoid payments, then filed to make her pay him child and spousal support instead.

“He found a very creative way to get out of paying child support… by being unemployed.” (Sandy, [09:46])

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The Home and Watts Credit Catastrophe

• [13:06-16:00] Despite Sandy paying all home-related expenses and the down payment, the court awarded her ex 100% Watts credit (a calculation based on the rental value of the home), requiring Sandy to pay him approximately $300,000 and sell the home.

“I am now ordered to pay him about $300,000 in Watts credit. And I was ordered by the court to sell our home—this was our children’s home.” (Sandy, [14:08])

• Sandy was denied Epstein’s credit (intended to reimburse the spouse who paid to maintain the home).
  • “There’s not one case in California … where one spouse receives 100% of the Watts credit…” (Sandy, [14:52])

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Systemic Injustice: Gender and Legal Representation

• [17:09-23:42] Unable to afford further legal representation, Sandy (representing herself “pro per”) was ordered to pay $20,000 for her husband’s attorney fees.
  • “You were the first one in the whole state of California…So he’s given 100% Watts credit…and everyone says there’s no way he’s gonna order you to pay attorney fees. Don’t worry about it… but he did.” (Kat, [36:26])
• Despite holding 73% physical custody, Sandy was ordered to pay child support as her children aged out of eligibility.
  • “I am now ordered to pay him child support. Even though I have 73% … custody.” (Sandy, [23:42])

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Immigration, Cultural Norms, and Leaving

• The host and Sandy emphasize the cultural conditioning (especially in Latin culture) to “not rock the boat”—to prioritize marriage and “shut up” rather than leave, regardless of abuse or neglect.
  • “You’re supposed to get married really young, you’re supposed to have kids, and you’re technically not even supposed to work.” (Kat, [29:20])
• Both share their struggle to find courage to leave unhappy, controlling marriages.
  • “It took me three years to have the courage to file for child support… exactly 10 years to have the courage to leave.” (Sandy, [31:09-31:20])

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Emotional Toll, Resilience, and Support

• Both agree that women need support systems, even if it’s “just one person” or a therapist—not necessarily family.
  • “My therapist. She was great.” (Sandy, [33:31])
• Kat and Sandy stress that leaving and rebuilding are possible—and that the sooner you leave, the sooner you can heal.

“The sooner you get out, the sooner you can start rebuilding. The sooner you can start healing.” (Kat & Sandy, [35:10])

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Holding onto Hope and Looking Forward

• Despite her suffering, Sandy remains resilient and positive.
  • “Sometimes we have to just be grateful for what we have, you know…in the midst of all this, don’t get me wrong, it’s been very challenging.” (Sandy, [41:46])
• Kat encourages Sandy—and listeners—by insisting that material losses do not define the future: “At least, thank God you’re young, you’re healthy, you’re gorgeous. And I believe in karma.”
  • Sandy: “I have to rebuild, one brick at a time.” ([44:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Control and the System:
  • “He found a very creative way to abuse me emotionally and mentally was by using the judicial system.” (Sandy, [07:36])
• On Court Orders:
  • “I am now ordered to pay him about $300,000 in Watts credit. And I was ordered by the court to sell our home.” (Sandy, [14:08])
  • “You were the first one in the whole state of California…So he’s given 100% Watts credit.” (Kat, [36:26])
• On Support:
  • “You don’t need a divorce on paper to move forward. You’re already moving forward.” (Sandy, [45:36])
• On Courage and Leaving:
  • “I hope to God no woman out there takes as long as I did to leave…It took me 15 years.” (Kat, [31:00])
  • “It took me three years to have the courage to file for child support… exactly 10 years to have the courage to leave.” (Sandy, [31:09-31:20])
• On Women’s Experience in Court:
  • “I don’t know how a judge like that sleeps at night…doing that to a woman.” (Kat, [22:37])
• On Rebuilding:
  • “I have to rebuild, one brick at a time.” (Sandy, [44:23])

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Important Timestamps

• [02:19]: Divorce process ongoing for 5+ years
• [05:10]: On cultural conditioning and control
• [07:36]: Manipulation of the legal process (continuances)
• [09:32]: Ex quits job to avoid child support
• [14:08]: Court awards 100% Watts credit to ex-husband; Sandy must sell home
• [17:09]: Sandy must represent herself, ordered to pay ex’s attorney fees
• [23:42]: Child support ordered despite majority custody
• [31:09/31:20]: Years required to find courage to leave
• [41:46]: Sandy maintains positivity and hope
• [44:23]: Commitment to rebuilding life

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Final Message

The episode closes with Kat rallying listeners to find strength, seek support, and not be afraid to leave unhappy relationships—even when the system seems rigged against them. Both women stress that, while the process is grueling, it is possible to move forward, heal, and ultimately rebuild—even if that means starting over from scratch.

“One step at a time, right? Baby step. But it’s one baby step at a time, unfortunately. It is heartbreaking how broken the system is.” (Kat, [45:21])

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Transcript

[A]

Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery. Sandra, welcome to Cat on the Loose.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Before I tell your story and I ask them 10 million questions and we dive into the super important situation, I want to tell you guys out there that are listening to Cat on the Loose that for those of you who don't know Sandy, she's not obviously she's not a celebrity.

[B]

No.

[A]

She's not a multi millionaire. She's not an heir.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You are a crazy hard working woman and I decided to bring you on the show representing millions. And that's, that's the sad part about this episode. Millions of women out there every single day that go through a similar situation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

A really tough, absurd, unfair divorce.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

In a very broken system.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We have a friend that is going, she, she cannot even participate right now because she's going through a similar situation and she's still going through divorce. So she was afraid of coming and, and getting her situation complicated. I went through total, total chaos seven years ago when through the cards. So we are going to talk about your case because I know there are millions of women out there going through the same and I really want to shed light in this situation. And we are trying really hard to bring in a very famous, successful divorce attorney back in the show to help us because I think the more we talk about it, hopefully we can help other women out there.

[B]

That sounds so amazing.

[A]

So thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Thank you for having me and allowing me to just voice my voice and share this story.

[A]

I mean, 1 million percent. So let's start from the get go. You were married for a really long time, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

18 years. 18 years.

[B]

18 years.

[A]

That's long term.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How many kids do you have?

[B]

We have three kids in college.

[A]

We have three kids. And how many years ago you decided.

[B]

To get divorced in 20.

[A]

20. 2020. This is 20. The end of 2025. And you're not divorced yet.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Correct. It's still going through the car. But guys, still going through the car. Hang in there because the plot thickens. It gets worse. It gets worse. So it's been five years.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it hasn't been resolved. And you're going to explain to us why. But let's go step by step. Why did you decide to get divorced?

[B]

For many reasons.

[A]

Many reasons.

[B]

Many reasons. I Don't know if we have enough time for that.

[A]

Just in a nutshell, of course.

[B]

The nutshell. You decided infidelity, substance abuse, and then just the fact that, you know, raising three children, you know, in this culture, you know, working full time, you know, as a social worker and just trying to maintain the household and, you know, prioritizing my children's emotional, mental well being, it was beyond too much. Especially when, you know, the children's father was always traveling like about 20 days out of the month and I was working full time and trying to navigate and provide and be present for my children.

[A]

Okay, so you mentioned it. You have been a social worker forever, correct?

[B]

25 years. Fuck.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Because they don't pay you millions of dollars a year, we know that much. You make a dec salary, but it's not a fortune.

[B]

No, it's not. It's not a fortune.

[A]

It's under a million dollars a year. It's under half a million dollars a year.

[B]

We can go court, like beyond. It's significantly less.

[A]

Significantly less. I mean, we know the government doesn't pay well.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And you've done this for 25 years. So when you were married, did your husband have a job?

[B]

Yes, he did at the time. He did.

[A]

But he had to travel for the.

[B]

Job, all the way, constantly.

[A]

And he just left you with the kids and La la. Okay. So you decided you're like, I can't take this shit anymore.

[B]

Can't take it.

[A]

So you go and you file for divorce.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Why? So now that people start understanding your story. Because I know a lot of women out there are going through the same. What made it like the first step that you realize, oh my God, this is not like a black and white, okay, I'm done. I'm divorced. Correct. What made it complicated?

[B]

He's not giving me the divorce.

[A]

He refuses.

[B]

He refuses to give me the divorce. And he has parents that are financially wealthy.

[A]

So he comes from a really rich background.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And you don't. You're an immigrant like me, right?

[B]

Correct. Yes.

[A]

Where do you come from?

[B]

My parents came from Colombia.

[A]

Wow. Okay. Yeah. One of my best friends is from Colombia as well. So you come from a simple family.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Immigrants, hard working.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And your crazy ex husband comes from a very privileged background.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And why does he tell you he doesn't want to give you the divorce?

[B]

It's all he. It's all about control. Because I was with him for 27 years, so it was just a culturally conditioned situation that I allowed myself to be in. And When I decided to stop this and make a change and begin to voice my voice, which is very hard, by the way. Very hard, because I was culturally conditioned to check the box. You prioritize your spouse, your children, your home, your work, and you will be the last, last priority.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And that's what I did. I was the ideal wife, mother, and I was. I don't want to say, like, in an egotistical way, but I was a trophy wife. My kids always looked sharp and clean, you know, and you did everything right.

[A]

You were supposed to do that.

[B]

I was culturally conditioned.

[A]

So when you said, I want to divorce, he's like, I'm not gonna sign.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's it. Okay. So you guys go to court and you start fighting. Now this is where the plot thickens, guys. When me. Her story, I was like, what? He basically, you tell me in your own words. He says he doesn't want a divorce, and then somehow you have to start paying for his shit.

[B]

Yes. So in this whole divorce process, I. We've gone to four to five mediations, a trial settling, settlement conference. We went to two courthouses. You know, the case was originally in the San Fernando Valley, but then it gets transferred to, you know, I don't know if I can say the courthouse. Pasadena courthouse. You know, I mean, it's public record. It is public record. You're right. It is public record. And trying to. We even gone through two judges, but.

[A]

I need to see.

[B]

I know, right? Don't we all need some love here? Whatever way we can get love.

[A]

Chaos. Go ahead.

[B]

And so with all that, what the biggest part was, the big turnaround for him was that he was court ordered to pay for child support because it did take.

[A]

Okay, so he was caught. Ordered to pay for child. So he was.

[B]

He started paying child support in 2023.

[A]

Wow. So for three years, he wasn't paying for.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

So what was the. The turning point that the judge started telling you that you had to tell. Tell that part of your story.

[B]

So we tried.

[A]

It's so freaking unbelievable, guys. Like, this is how the system treats women. And again, we're not talking, like, about a celebrity or a multimillionaire, because I know a lot of people, they're like, oh, well, but how about when women do that to men? We're going to get to that. But I mean, just like a salaried government employee, correct?

[B]

Yes. Yes. And so what ended up happening is just he found a very creative way to abuse me emotionally and mentally was by using the judicial system and constantly Requesting for continuances. Now, continuances are not given the next week or in a month. It's usually you're going to have to wait.

[A]

Can you explain to people that is for those who don't know.

[B]

Oh, so a court. Because you have, you're always scheduled a court hearing and then you have. If, if he has an attorney, which he did. Yeah, just for a continuance because she wants, the attorney wants to go on vacation, it's granted and it's. And the continuance is like you're going to get another court hearing, but it takes about six to eight weeks. So you're now waiting another two months. And it just, it just becomes a repeated cycle over.

[A]

So he does this on purpose.

[B]

Or in another reason is not submitting documents. You know, that is required by the court in order to make a decision in regards to child. And then it gets continued again. And so then it was just repeated continuances.

[A]

So at one point, because. So he moved out. Right. You were living in your house. Because that's another part of your story that I thought is total chaos. You're living in your house, you are paying the mortgage, you're paying all the bills. He's not helping at all.

[B]

No.

[A]

Although he has a job.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

He's healthy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How old is he?

[B]

52.

[A]

Wow. So he's young. He's a young, healthy middle aged man.

[B]

Educated as well with the degree.

[A]

Educated from a great background. And he decides he's not gonna help you with anything.

[B]

Anything.

[A]

So you're paying the mortgage. Like the email you wrote me. You're paying mortgage, property taxes, insurance, la la la la la. And taking care of three kids all on your own.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And all you want is get divorced. And this dude is not giving you a penny.

[B]

No.

[A]

Until the judge ordered him to pay you child support.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So he started paying your child support.

[B]

Yes. In 2023, he. And so when his wages became garnished, that's when he became very angry about an animal. And then he found a very creative way to get out of paying child support. And that is by being unemployed.

[A]

Oh, really? So if you lose your job. So he quit his job. What was his job?

[B]

He was in sales in the alcohol industry.

[A]

Okay, so he quit his job on purpose, you think?

[B]

Well, he says he was laid off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We don't have any documentation to confirm that.

[A]

Okay, so he probably quit his job on purpose.

[B]

Yes. And four days later he filed for a request for order hearing and that is to now order request for me to now pay child support and spousal support.

[A]

Okay, so he stopped working. But it's his kids.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

He doesn't want to help the kids. That's crazy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you told the judge that.

[B]

Yes, we did. And what does the judge say in the meantime? He, you know, in the meantime I was paying the property taxes and homeowner's insurance and as well as the mortgages with my own separate income. Wow. And then, you know, for him, he believed that paying child support is also paying for school tuition. I was as well paying half of all the bills, school tuitions, my kids.

[A]

You know, God knows how you afford all this stuff. Correct. On your own, you know, with the salary.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then, okay, so he stops everything and you're living in your house and the judge doesn't help you.

[B]

No.

[A]

When you go to the judge and you say, but you know, your honor, look, he comes from means and his family is rich.

[B]

So when he became unemployed in 2024, I had to make the most challenging decision was to release my attorney because I was no longer able to afford paying her.

[A]

They are fortunate.

[B]

As well as receiving any child support because he was ordered to give child. And I decided to take this challenge independently. And because we went through so many court hearings and mediations and trial settlement conferences where we couldn't come to an agreement, the case then went proceeded to trial setting. So I had to release my attorney because to be honest, the mental and emotional well being for my children is a priority. I had a daughter that was graduating high school. I had my son graduating from eighth grade. There was no way I'm pulling kids out of private school.

[A]

No. And listen, I think everybody in the world knows a half assed attorney costs a fortune. A good attorney costs a huge fortune.

[B]

Significant fortune.

[A]

It's fortunate, almost impossible for a working mom with three kids to be able to afford all this crap. So you go and you're like, I'm going to defend myself.

[B]

I'm going to defend myself as pro per. And he, even though he's unemployed, he was still able to have.

[A]

And where was he living, Sandy?

[B]

He was still living in the San Fernando Valley.

[A]

He got his own apartment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How was he paying his bills? You don't know? You don't know anything? No. You have. No. Probably his family's help.

[B]

Absolutely, 100% because he comes.

[A]

Did you tell the judge that?

[B]

Yes, uh huh. We did.

[A]

And so what is the story of the house? Because that's the part that broke my heart.

[B]

So the part is. So I put pretty much. 20% down payment of my home. Yeah, It's a single story home. It's a little small home in the San Fernando Valley.

[A]

But you bought it.

[B]

But I bought it for hard work and also because, you know, I was. Yes, I did buy it. So what ended up happening is that he requested to receive Watts credit. So Watts credit is when one party that is residing outside of the home is wanting the renter's value of what the house could have been if it was rented out. And the Judge ordered him 100% watts credit and denied me Epstein's credit, which is the having credit of preserving the home from going into foreclosure.

[A]

Because you've been paying for the house to make it more easy for people that don't understand the lingo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He moved out. You're living in the house. You're paying all the bills.

[B]

All the bills.

[A]

And the judge or says that he has rights in the home.

[B]

The financial means of the home.

[A]

The financial means of the home. And how. Meaning you have to pay him.

[B]

I am now ordered to pay him about $300,000 in Watts credit. And I was ordered by the court to sell our home. This was our children's home.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And regardless that I've been paying it for the last five years.

[A]

And you prove. You. Obviously, you showed. So when you arrive in court with all these documents, like, look, you, Honor, I'm paying for this shit by myself. This asshole is not helping. What does a judge say to you then?

[B]

Actually, there's a law. Watt's credit.

[A]

He talks. So he looks at you and he's like, whatever. That's the law.

[B]

It's Watts Credit, and he's entitled to it. What the interesting part is, but how.

[A]

About if it's half, why is he entitled to all of it?

[B]

Exactly. That's the catch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's not one case in the state of California that's been published where one spouse receives 100% of the watts Credit. Here in California, it should be 50. 50. But he received 100% of the watts credit.

[A]

And why?

[B]

That's what was ordered.

[A]

But do you talk, like, when you go to court, are you allowed to look at the judge and talk and ask questions?

[B]

So I then retained an attorney because that's a signif. That's pretty much the entire equity. And that there's just not enough equity of the house once it's, you know, sold to. Although he says you can get your down payment back. But the attorneys are saying he has priority.

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

Of receiving the Watts Credit. Because he had to live outside of the home, which he voluntarily moved. There was no restraining order. There was no move out order. He voluntarily moved, but he was granted 100% of the watts. And when I went back to court, I then retained an attorney to help correct this, because this has to be an error.

[A]

Right. But you didn't.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Oh, you didn't.

[B]

And the judge dismissed my attorney. The judge repeatedly said, counsel, orders were made. Counsel, I'm giving you instructions on how to proceed to the next. For the next court hearing.

[A]

And so basically they listen to you and your attorney.

[B]

No.

[A]

So now you have to sell your home.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And how much is the home worth?

[B]

1 million.

[A]

So the home is worth a million. What is the equity?

[B]

It's about 350,000, which is exact.

[A]

So you gotta get this money and give it all to him.

[B]

Correct. Because you also have to pay for all the additional fees to sell out.

[A]

Yeah. And how about all the mortgages that you paid? There is no law that protects you and gives you this money back.

[B]

Well, technically, I'm supposed. I'm entitled to Epstein's credit.

[A]

Right. So how do you get that?

[B]

You can't. He dismissed it. He was silent on it. And the other thing is, it's very challenging. You know, I would. Since it went to trial, I have to request for an appellant attorney. And with all the research and the interviews that I've had with appellant attorneys, they're like, if you do not have an order on Epstein's, you cannot file an appeal.

[A]

Really.

[B]

On a non existing order.

[A]

So there's like, basically, in layman's terms, they said there's nothing you can do about this situation. And you talk to a million attorneys. If there is a divorce attorney out there listening, let us know, because this is one of the most absurd situations I've ever had in my life. So you're having to sell your house. Yes. Leave your house with your kids and where. And then you. Where you go. You're gonna have to start from scratch, like renting an apartment. And he takes all this money? Correct. He takes $350,000. $300,000.

[B]

About 300,000.

[A]

So he's gonna get a $300,000 check and put it in the bank for doing absolutely nothing.

[B]

Not paying one, because the judge ordered him. 59 months of Epstein's credit.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I mean. Sorry. Of watts credit. 59 months of watts credit, and you.

[A]

Don'T think there is. And you cannot take it to another judge.

[B]

No. Not when it goes to trial.

[A]

You cannot appeal this Decision of his.

[B]

Credits, of the Watts credit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But that's the other issue is because it wasn't indicated in a minute order, and because a judgment hasn't been signed, there could be no movement. A judgment needs to be signed. The fact that he's giving him 100% of the watts credit. And the judge, to this day, we are in November. This hearing was. This trial hearing was in June, so.

[A]

It'S almost six months. And why do you think that is that he's.

[B]

Negligence.

[A]

This judge is like a total, I.

[B]

Mean, just negligence the.

[A]

The court system. Because as immigrants. Right. I mean. And I always say that when I tell my story and tell me if you were the same, like, you were born here, right? Yes, I wasn't. But I came when I was very, very young and I became a citizen. La la la. You know, I've been here my entire life. It's my home. But I always had this dream mentality that I'm like, I live in the United States and it's the best country in the world, and we are so protected. I really believe up until my husband died and I had everything taken away from me because the courts didn't enforce the will. I believed the laws would always be respected and applied.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was the most naive person in the world. I really, really believed in my heart, like, nothing can go wrong if you have a will. All you have to do is go to court. They're gonna read it, they're gonna do the right thing if you get divorced. It's like, I really believed until. This is why I believe you, because it freaking happened to me. And when I tell people, they're like, what do you mean, if you had a will? Why? And I said, exactly. Because I took the will to court. And they ignored every single paragraph of the will. It took me two years arguing and kicking and screaming. The judge, I remember when I tried to open my mouth, she would say, shut up or I'm gonna hold you in contempt. Hold you in contempt means I'm gonna throw you in jail.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That's how the judge would talk to me. Yes.

[B]

And finally intimidating.

[A]

Exactly. Like, who the hell wants to be thrown in jail, you know, for speaking up? So when I heard your story, I'm like, the system is broken. The countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here. Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique, high quality finds you won't see anywhere else. So don't wait. The most meaningful gifts get scooped up fast. And now it's the perfect time to cross names off your list. And Common Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique and often handmade or made in the usa. Many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses. I love that. Making every gift feel meaningful and truly one of a kind. I found so many adorable things on Uncommon Goods. You guys have no idea. For my friends, family, even for my pets, Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. From moms and dads to kids and teens. From book lovers, history buffs and die hard football fans, chew foodies, mixologists and avid gardeners. You'll find thousands of new gift ideas that you won't find anywhere else. When you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches, so shop now before they sell out this holiday season. And with every purchase you make at Uncommon Goods, they give back $1 to a non profit partner of your choice they've donated more than $3 million to. How nice is that? So don't wait. Let's cross our names off our lists before the rush. To get 15 off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com cat that's uncommongoods.com KatKat For 15 off a gift on Uncommon Goods we are all out of the ordinary. And for some reason most of the time the women are the ones that get. Pardon my French.

[B]

You're absolutely right. And not only that, because I was pro per legally representing myself without proper legal representation, I was then ordered to pay $20,000 of his attorney fees.

[A]

That is outrageous. Especially this is the thing. I don't know how a judge like that sleeps at night because this guy comes from a rich family. You told me his parents are really wealthy. So like they he has something to like this grown ass 52 year old man. We're not talking about somebody who is disabled. No, we're not talking about a retard. We're not talking about somebody with a low IQ with no. We're talking about a guy from a really sophisticated family. So he has all these people behind him and he's taking your money. The judge orders you to pay for his attorneys. Like how the hell does a judge like that sleeps And I doing that to a woman.

[B]

And on top of that I have 73 now. My kids are older now so one is already aged out of the system because this has been going on for nearly six years and the other one is nearly 18. So I have my 14 and a half 15 year old son and I'm now ordered to pay him child Support. Even though I have 73% leave, you know, physical custody.

[A]

OMG.

[B]

And I'm a social worker.

[A]

How do you do it? How do you do it? How do you make enough money?

[B]

You don't. And your parents.

[A]

And so let's put this on record. Your parents are not rich.

[B]

My parents are deceased.

[A]

Your parents are same. I don't have a family to fall on. Neither do I. I'm the same as you. Like when I lost everything, and I'm not kidding, I lost everything. I lost my pants, my assets, my bank account, my cars. Like you name it, I lost. I literally lost everything. I had to start from zero. I was penniless, I was jobless. My friends, friends with big quote, they ran away like rats because nobody wanted to help. I was totally on my own and I. But I don't have kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. But I could barely support myself and my two dogs. I know what an uphill battle it was for me to rebuild from scratch. You know, this is seven years later and I'm by no means rich millionaire like people think I am. You know, I'm doing better. But I know how hard it was. I cannot imagine going through what you are going through for so long and supporting your kids, supporting yourself, going to work and I mean, you got a salary at the end of the month.

[B]

And still having to go to court and deal with and still have to go to court.

[A]

What do his parents. Have you tried talking to his parents?

[B]

No.

[A]

You don't want to?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

We've are. We're into this for over six years. Because I think.

[A]

Six years, you never tried talking to his parents?

[B]

Oh, no, no. They are supporting this.

[A]

No, I'm sure they are, but I would have tried. Yeah.

[B]

You know the interesting part? Sorry for interrupting. His mother went through the same exact thing.

[A]

Are you saying.

[B]

And you would think she would be.

[A]

With her ex husband.

[B]

With his father.

[A]

With his father.

[B]

With her ex husband.

[A]

So his parents are divorced?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they both have money?

[B]

Well, his parents. His father's deceased, but his mother married a wealthy man. Remarried a wealthy man.

[A]

Okay, so obviously, is he an only child?

[B]

No, he has one other sibling because.

[A]

He'S behaving like this brat. Right. Where are they from? Are they from California?

[B]

His parents were from Peru. He was born here in the United States.

[A]

Okay, but he's an American.

[B]

Yes, he's an American.

[A]

And to this day. Did he get another job?

[B]

Yes, he just recently got another job.

[A]

Finally.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you know what the job is in sales.

[B]

Same industry.

[A]

And you cannot Go to the judge and say, hey, look, why am I paying child support to this guy since he has another job?

[B]

Well, so when I discovered that he retained employment, then I did request for a hearing. So I just.

[A]

How did you find out?

[B]

My kids.

[A]

So your kids are on your side?

[B]

I would hope it would. It's. It's a really challenging position for them.

[A]

They go back and forth, but.

[B]

Yeah, they go back and forth, but, you know, and I'm sure.

[A]

But that's the thing. He must twist the story, right?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

I don't want to divorce her. He probably won't say shit like that.

[B]

She wanted this.

[A]

She wanted this. Yeah. And to this day, by the way, you're still single. Right. It's not like. Because I know women get so judged. And that's another thing that bothers me because when I know a lot of people see the situation, maybe a lot of people are going to listen to the episode and they're like, oh, she must have had another guy. You know, that's the only reason why she. They always try to. Because this is very unfortunate. But it's true. And I'm saying most of the time, I know there are exceptions, but I'm saying most of the time, somehow the woman gets blamed, like if you ask for the divorce. Right.

[B]

They're like, absolutely.

[A]

She has another dude. Oh, yeah, she must have a lover.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She has some dude helping her pay the bills. But it's not your case. You're still single.

[B]

Still single.

[A]

You're still working super. Look at her smile. Obviously you deserve another love.

[B]

Of course. We all deserve another.

[A]

We all deserve love.

[B]

Just in general. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's been many. But it's. The reason why you left him is not because you found another guy.

[B]

No. Oh no.

[A]

You left cuz you couldn't put up with his shit.

[B]

I can't do this anymore. I couldn't do this anymore.

[A]

And obviously now we know why, because obviously this guy is like a douche.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't imagine putting anybody through that, especially like, you know, the mother of his kids.

[B]

Right, right. And that was one of the decisions I had to make was that, you know, I didn't want my daughter to marry someone like that.

[A]

How old is your daughter?

[B]

She's 19 now.

[A]

Yeah. Now she's an adult.

[B]

Yeah. And I. She's, you know, they're learning by observation 1 million percent. And I didn't want her to think that's a healthy marriage, that's a healthy relationship, because it's not. There was no partnership. There Wasn't. And you shouldn't stay in any marriage because your culture expects you to, you know, because it's not healthy for you. To the individual. It wasn't healthy for me. And if I'm not healthy, how could I be healthy for my children?

[A]

I'm glad that you brought this up, because I completely agree with you. And that's a big deal in the. In Latin cultures, for sure.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like you said, we are raised to be compliant, to keep our mouth shut.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Right. Like be a nice wife and shut the up. Yeah, basically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Don't rock the boat. No, like raise. Imagine me, like, because I. I didn't have kids. So imagine for me, it was like, the pressure. Right. Why aren't you having kids? Why aren't you having kids? You're supposed to get married really young.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're supposed to have kids. Kids you're technically not even supposed to work in. In a lot of Latin countries to this day. You're supposed to just stay home with the kids, cooking and cleaning and everything. And the guy works. So in your case, you were actually lucky in the sense that you marry a guy that was supportive of you going to work.

[B]

Right. But I still had to do all the cooking, the cleaning and making all the medical, dental appointments, taking them to their school programs, practices. I had three kids, very athletically involved in their sp.

[A]

God, how do you're superwoman. Three kids. Three kids. Like I said, I didn't have kids, but. And then I ended up, interestingly, I ended up marrying a guy. My husband was American, from Boston, Italian descent. And I, of course, I didn't know in the beginning, but he ended up being insanely controlling. He barely. He told me in the beginning that he. Because when I met him, I worked, because I always loved working. I love it. But when I met him, so he was like, oh, I'm super supportive. Go have a career, go. But obviously, as the. The years went by, he started cutting me off, cutting me off, cutting me off to the point that he didn't want me to work. He didn't want me to do anything. He barely wanted me to leave the house. He was insanely controlling. So for 15 years, in my case, I ended up being more and more and more financially dependent on him. He controlled my friendships. He controlled, like, every step I took. So in my case, as much as I didn't have the kids, but. But I lost my freedom, which is very hard as well.

[B]

And I'm sure you lost yourself, oh, a million percent.

[A]

And I think this is such an Important conversation. Because I always say, I hope to God no woman out there takes as long as I did to leave because it took me 15 years.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I understand. It took me three years to have the courage to file for child support.

[A]

To have the courage. How long am I the courage to leave?

[B]

Exactly 10 years.

[A]

10. So for 10 years, you are sitting there thinking, I want to leave. I deserve better. Right? I deserve better. This is not right.

[B]

And I'm going to give them a chance to change.

[A]

That's the problem. We. And that's a big mistake. Yeah. They will never change for you.

[B]

They won't.

[A]

Never. And so many women make this mistake and stay in unhappy relationships, and they always use this phrase. Phrase. I used it. I'm sure you used it. But I love him. But I love him. He's gonna change for me. But I love him. His love is gonna make him change for me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that day is never going to come.

[B]

Correct. And their other phrase is, like, I recall, it could be worse. It could be worse. And I wish. And encourage any woman that I hear say that.

[A]

That. Don't say that.

[B]

Don't say that.

[A]

You know, it's so funny. I got goosebumps when you said that, Sandy, because when my mom was alive, the few times I tried to complain, like, oh, my God, you know, this is really tough. My mom would say, don't rock the boat. It could be worse. Because my husband was so wealthy, right? From the outside world, they thought, what are you complaining about? You have this princess life. You live in these mansions. You have the cars, the jewelry, the trips. So I remember she would always say, it could be much more. What if you don't have money? What if you lose everything? You know, don't rock the boat. And it's interesting you said that, because mentally, it took me so many years to gather the courage and say, you know what? I'm not gonna put up with this shit anymore. Like you just said, I deserve better. And I think we should not be afraid of the unexpected. In order to just stay in an unhappy or abusive or toxic relationship, you gotta go for it.

[B]

You do. You do. 100%. But, I mean, it takes just a lot of courage.

[A]

It does, right?

[B]

And the right support system, if all you need is, you know, anyone, it could be one person. You know that.

[A]

Who was your support system? Your family?

[B]

My therapist.

[A]

Your therapist.

[B]

She was great.

[A]

Lisa.

[B]

She's great.

[A]

I'm glad you're being honest.

[B]

I'm being honest.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

And that's the thing. It took me Years. Like I said, three years. You don't understand. It was so hard to file for divorce.

[A]

Understand.

[B]

Especially not having, you know, my mom or my dad. And I'm, like, the first one to do something like that, you know, in my family, in my circle of friendships, I'm the first one to take a chance. But I just couldn't do this anymore. And you know what? It really had to do, the fact that my daughter was a teenager and, you know, she's growing, observing. And I didn't want my sons to think this is healthy.

[A]

This is how I hope your sons don't ever think. Yeah, exactly. Because that's the freaking. Talk about a horrible role model for. For men, for kids.

[B]

And then the generational cycle continues.

[A]

Horrible. But I will tell you, I know how hard it was because I went through the same. And many times people judge, like, oh, if you're unhappy, why don't you leave? Why don't you leave?

[B]

It's not that easy.

[A]

It's because, like you said, mentally, you try to save the marriage. You love the person. You are wondering about the consequence and everything. Sometimes it does in our. Unfortunately took years for us to gather the. The courage. But I hope if it's a woman out there listening, get whatever support. Because the support system doesn't have to be family. Like in your family, a therapist, a friend. Do whatever the hell you have to do, so you gather the strength and. Because I think the sooner you get out, the sooner you can start rebuilding.

[B]

The sooner you can start healing.

[A]

Yeah, you're insanely poised and calm about it, considering he still has not given you the divorce and you still don't know.

[B]

No, at this point, I don't know. When you know, it's unfortunate, and I've done.

[A]

It's outrageous.

[B]

I made requests to the core to, you know, legally separate me, which was denied.

[A]

You know, and it's beyond to think that that 5. How long? 5 years?

[B]

5 years? 20. 20.

[A]

It makes me wonder, like, this judge person, it's a man. We're not gonna say his name on the show, but it makes me wonder if he hates women, if he's in a miserable marriage, if it makes me wonder. I know you guys are gonna think I'm crazy conspiracy theory, but I actually think this might be possible. I swear to God, if his family is paying the judge off, I swear to God. Because in my case, the way things happen to me, and that's a whole other episode. I swear to God, to this day, I believe that the people that stole everything from me they were paying my attorneys to not help me because they were getting a cut.

[B]

I mean, it's just unheard of.

[A]

I really believe that.

[B]

I mean, like I say, I was pro per no one.

[A]

You were the first one in the whole state of California.

[B]

So he's given 100% watts.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And everyone says there's no way he's gonna order you to pay attorney fees. Don't worry about it. You're representing yourself. If you can't afford legal representation. How are you expected to pay for his legal representation at $500 a month?

[A]

How does the court justify that? Like they see you, you have a salary and you do beautiful work.

[B]

Have a job.

[A]

Yeah, but you have a job and you do beautiful work, by the way.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Can you tell people what you do?

[B]

So I protect children and families. Yeah. I'm a children's social worker.

[A]

Yeah. That's incredible. Very difficult work. Very taxing.

[B]

Very challenging work.

[A]

Very challenging. Mentally exhausting.

[B]

Emotionally exhausting.

[A]

You're an angel considering you've been been doing that for 25 years. So you tell this judge all this stuff and it doesn't move the needle to your side?

[B]

No.

[A]

So he's like, okay, this is jobless at his free will because he's healthy.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Totally capable of getting a job.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. 100.

[A]

But you're like, you gotta pay for his.

[B]

I have to still pay for his.

[A]

How outrageous is that, guys? Like, how rageous.

[B]

Because I stayed employed.

[A]

That's insane. That's insane. And if you are crazy, like, I'm gonna quit my job. You can't do that because then you end up homeless, on the street with your kids.

[B]

There's no way. And I've exhausted, you know, a significant of my life to my work.

[A]

It's unbelievable, you know that? I don't know if you know that actress Denise Richards, when you told me your story, just a few days later, she, her husband filed for divorce. Similar situation. Very healthy, grown ass, middle aged man. He goes to the judge like, oh, I want whatever. Crazy. I'm 150 grand a month because she makes the money. She makes whatever. 200,000. $250,000 on only fans a month. And I took the pictures. I deserve the lifestyle, I deserve the money, I deserve this, I deserve that. And then a lot of people said, oh, she's the rich one and he's not. Not. But it made me feel the same way. Why the. Pardon my French. Because I get so mad. This grown ass middle aged man cannot get a job.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Go support yourself and they should be embarrassed.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Asking for women to pay their bills. I don't even understand that. Like, let's say he gets a new girlfriend. What does he tell a new girlfriend? Like, oh, yeah, my wife is supporting.

[B]

Supporting me. Oh, yeah. And he goes on vacation trips with.

[A]

You on your dime. Well. Or his. His family.

[B]

His family's dime. And then now that I have, and.

[A]

You see, like on his Instagram and.

[B]

No, I don't follow him.

[A]

You don't follow him?

[B]

No.

[A]

So how do you know he goes on vacation and stuff? My children, they tell you everything. They spill the tea. They spill the tea on him, but obviously he doesn't care.

[B]

He doesn't Care. Care. He doesn't care. He doesn't. You know, I mean, to him it's like he doesn't care as long as he still has some type of control, which he does, because I'm still controlled by the judicial system of having to keep going back to that courthouse.

[A]

And you have no idea. So when are you going back In December. December. And you have no idea if they're gonna grant you the divorce, if they're gonna squeeze more money out of you, they obviously don't give a fuck that you're selling the house and you're gonna have to rent. Obviously, a much smaller pay place.

[B]

Much.

[A]

A significantly smaller, smaller place. I mean, I don't even know what to say because I'm not an attorney. I told you, we're trying to bring an attorney into the show because I want to ask a professional opinion, but I. I hope we shed light on. And if anybody out there has a crazy story to tell, please, by all means, share, because I know you're sitting here today representing millions of women out there who are literally afraid of leaving because they don't want to be in your situation. So something needs to be done in the system in order to make it a little more fair. And I'm saying to women, because women most of the time end up being the victims. And I know a lot of people are going to say, like even our friend said, oh. People say, how about when it's the girl that divorces the guy and asks for all this money? Well, number one is not the subject here today, but I'm not saying women that marry guys, price and ask for all their money are doing the right thing either. Yeah, but it's completely different if it's a. Let's say a woman that was married to a guy for a long time and had kids with him and he was home for 15 years doing nothing. Right? Then, of course, she needs money to support herself. So it's completely different when most women. I know there's exception guys, but when most women ask for support, it's because usually they were depending on the dude for a really long time. But in your case, that's not the case. That's not the case at all. And for many, many women out there, they are like you.

[B]

Like us, we're just average women.

[A]

Well, you're not average. You're superwoman. You're not. And. And it makes me happy that you didn't lose your smile.

[B]

Oh, that's. Sometimes that's. We have to just be grateful for what we have, you know, because. Because, you know, in the midst of all this, don't get me wrong, I mean, it's been very challenging. I'm very challenging.

[A]

Sandy. What people see, like, we're sitting here, right? And if you guys are listening to the audio episode, make sure you go to the Cat on the show channel on YouTube so you can see her beautiful face. But what people see here is the final product. Like, we wake up, and like my mom used to say, we pull ourselves by the bootstraps and we go fight. We work. We have bills to pay. We have projects, shit together, done. We. We're not filming the struggles. The nights that we cry, the nights that you freak out, you pull your hair out. You're like, what the Am I gonna. There were some days, I swear to God, I thought I was gonna. I really thought I was gonna go homeless. I started making plans like, okay, how am I gonna sleep with my dogs in the car? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not kidding you. But I don't put that on social media, right? We put the like, hi, here I am. Like, yeah, but I'm very proud of you. You as a woman.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And a Latin woman that you are look fabulous, and you're smiling and you're putting yourself out there.

[B]

Because I'm trying to just stay, you know, take, like, I'm grateful that you gave me this opportunity to be able to voice my voice, because it's happening. It's really happening. And, you know, it's happening to just, you know, women. And it's like, it's not right. I mean, we are trusting the judicial system to, like, set boundaries and follow the laws and do what's right.

[A]

But it's like, we're gonna try make the judge listen to this podcast. I'm gonna find you. I'm gonna hunt you down. I'm gonna email this episode, right? I mean, because come on, dude, what is wrong with you guys? You know, Right?

[B]

I mean, when I received the news, the impact. I mean, it's like you just felt so. I mean, I just felt so hopeless. Like I lost everything. Everything. The struggles, the tribulence, the. The trials.

[A]

But listen, you didn't. Because losing the material things is insanely painful. Losing a home. I know. Because I lost everything. But at least thank God you're young, you're healthy, you're gorgeous. And I believe in karma. I really believe in karma. You don't. You should start believing in Lady Karma because she's a. And I believe in energy.

[B]

I believe in energy. Everything is energy.

[A]

Yeah. So he's gonna get his. His karma. And I'm sure you're gonna rebuild. And I'm sure you're gonna.

[B]

I have to. Yeah, I have to rebuild one. One brick at a time.

[A]

That. That's it. Let's go, girl.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Thank you for sharing.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. No, thank you for having me.

[A]

I hope you're out there dating, you're out and about, so I hope you find an incredible man.

[B]

Thank you so much. That's very nice.

[A]

I really, really. Because you deserve it and I know.

[B]

That we all deserve love.

[A]

Guys, if you're watching the show and you wanna. If, look, I'll be cupid. I'll hook you up. Sandy, if you live in California, preferably. Right. Because we don't want to remove. But if you don't live in California and you are willing to relocate, hit me up and I'll connect you guys. Let's find you a lovely. And we're gonna get this judge hopefully to listen this after episode. But thank you for sharing your stories. And guys, if you're going through something similar out there, be strong. One step at a time, right? Baby step. But it's one baby step at a time, unfortunately. It is heartbreaking how broken the system is. It really, really sucks.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you, Sandy. It was such an honor. Guys, be safe out there. And really, the sooner you leave, the sooner you can start rebuilding the life of your dreams. Yeah, you don't need a divorce on paper towel.

[B]

Move forward. You're already moving forward. I've already moved forward.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

I'm very proud of you. Thank you, guys.

[A]

I love you. Cheers. Drink some love.

[B]

Thank you. We'll need some love for sure. Cheers.

[A]

And I'll see you guys again very soon. Thank you.

[B]

Oh, you're amazing. Thank you.