Kat on the Loose – “DON'T SAY YOU'RE SORRY WITH NICOLE SODOMA”

Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Nicole Sodoma, Divorce Attorney & Author
Release Date: February 18, 2026

Episode Overview

In this raw and empowering episode of Kat on the Loose, Kat Zammuto sits down with renowned divorce attorney Nicole Sodoma to discuss her new book, “Please Don’t Say You’re Sorry.” They explore the nuances of apologizing in relationships, especially for women, the guilt tied to prioritizing personal happiness, the realities of divorce, and the courage needed to break free from unhealthy marriages or partnerships. Both women candidly share personal experiences with abuse, guilt, and liberation, while upending outdated expectations around marriage, divorce, and self-worth. They also delve into actionable advice for anyone considering separation, the importance of financial independence, and why it’s crucial never to give up on love.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Pitfalls of Apologizing

• Nicole explains the book’s title:
  • Repeated apologies, especially from women, often emerge from a place of undeserved guilt or shame (01:00).
  • “You have clients who apologize for not knowing their financials or clients who were embarrassed for whatever it is. … When you’re saying you’re sorry, it makes you think that you’ve [done something terribly wrong]. … Most of the times in my area of practice, and especially when I went through my own divorce, the thing I did not want to hear was an apology.” (Nicole, 01:05)
  • The phrase “Sorry, not sorry” is discussed as a way to reframe unnecessary apologies (02:51).
• Kat shares her habit of over-apologizing:
  • Relates to feeling the need to apologize for simply existing or wanting something for herself (02:07).

2. Placing Personal Happiness First—The Guilt and Liberation

• Quote from the Book:
  • “Never apologize for placing our happiness first.” (Kat quoting Nicole, 02:56)
• The guilt of self-prioritization:
  • Both Kat and Nicole discuss the massive guilt women often feel when considering their own happiness, especially as mothers (04:17).
  • Nicole: “If you aren’t taking care of yourself first, then you’re likely to be less of what you want to be and who you want to be for those around you.” (04:40)
• Kat’s Perspective:
  • Shares her story of enduring a 15-year abusive marriage, hindered by guilt and the belief that leaving would harm her husband (03:02, 12:19).

3. Gender, Guilt, and Social Pressure in Unhappy Marriages

• Men experience similar guilt:
  • Kat notes men often stay in unhappy marriages for the kids or out of guilt (05:54).
  • Nicole: "About half of my client base... [are men who] think they’re going to stick it out because they’re doing women favors… Is that what you want your children to do? Is that how you want your children to be loved?" (06:47)
• Cultural pressures:
  • Parental or social advice to “not rock the boat” keeps many people in unfulfilling situations (07:48, 08:17).

4. Understanding, Naming, and Escaping Abuse

• Broader than physical abuse:
  • Nicole: “It’s no longer just physical abuse. There’s so many other types… emotional, financial, verbal …” (08:20)
  • Shame often prevents victims from leaving or being believed (09:56).
• Overcoming financial fears:
  • Kat and Nicole emphasize the need for independence and understanding finances as a key to escaping unhappy or abusive relationships (10:52, 11:12, 27:45).
  • Nicole: “You just have to get your head out of the damn sand. Do it. And then see how you feel before you decide whether you’re afraid.” (28:12)

5. Growing Apart and the Reality of Change in Marriage

• People evolve—so does love:
  • Nicole: “The people we marry are not the people we divorce.” (12:58)
  • Discussion on “till death do us part” vs. more flexible commitments; joking about a “five-year lease” on marriage (13:38).
• Anecdotes:
  • Nicole shares client stories: unexpected head trauma, addiction and the unpredictability of life changes within long-term relationships (15:04).

6. Therapy, Reconciliation, and Knowing When It’s Over

• The importance of seeking therapy:
  • Nicole: “If your partner says, ‘Hey, I think we really need to go to counseling,’ always say yes.” (16:59)
• When refusal is a red flag:
  • If one partner categorically refuses therapy, it often signals a point of no return (17:23, 17:54).
• Encouragement to start over:
  • Both stress it’s never too late to rebuild; the hardest moments can lead to remarkable empowerment (20:21).
  • Kat: “[After] you build a new life for yourself... that is insanely empowering.” (21:31, 22:35)

7. Practical Steps: Responsibility, Independence, and Relearning

• Nicole’s client exercise:
  • Write out the responsibilities in a relationship and then switch roles for a month to develop empathy and skills (22:35).
  • “It's harder than you think, especially when you have one parent who stays [home]... the other one’s like, ‘I don’t know what they do.’” (23:29)
• Financial literacy:
  • Knowing how to manage accounts, credit, and daily administration is key for independence post-divorce (27:45).

8. Optimism, Love After Divorce, and The Value of Non-Negotiables

• Nicole’s hope for her clients:
  • “The person that is showing up in that relationship, you are a different person than you were. … You will not settle for anything less.” (29:58)
• Non-negotiables in love:
  • Both Kat and Nicole advocate for clear standards and open communication in future relationships (30:38, 32:08).
• Practice and communication:
  • Marriage requires continued effort and honesty; “we prep, we study, we do all these things [in life], but we don’t do the same thing for marriage.” (32:53)
• Rejecting bitterness:
  • Kat: “Because one relationship didn’t work, it doesn’t define what the next relationship is going to be. … I want to keep my heart open to finding love again.” (33:27, 34:28)

9. Prenuptial Agreements—Necessary Safety Net or Romance Killer?

• Nicole’s take:
  • “Of course, an attorney is going to say, yes, you should always have a prenup. … We don’t want to use [insurance], but we pay for them.” (38:46)
  • “If they can’t have the conversation about the what-ifs… then start over.” (41:10)
• Kat’s practical view:
  • Though romantic, marriage is a contract—prenups streamline separation and reduce later conflict and expense (42:13).
• Male perspectives and changing gender roles:
  • Nicole: “If you have a daughter, I want you to think about what it would be like if your daughter was the one paying alimony. … Women do pay alimony, too.” (41:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Apologizing:
  • “I understand the spirit of an apology, but… the thing I did not want to hear was an apology.” (Nicole, 01:00)
  • “Never apologize for placing our happiness first.” (Read by Kat, 02:56)
• On Leaving Abusive Relationships:
  • “I hope nobody takes 15 years to get out of a horrible relationship. … Life is too short. I think we all deserve to be happy or at the very least, peaceful.” (Kat, 05:54)
• On Self-Liberation:
  • “As you rebuild... that is insanely empowering. That makes you feel so much better as a human being, as a woman. And I think it opens doors for healthier and better relationships.” (Kat, 21:31)
• On Marriage and Divorce:
  • "The people we marry are not the people we divorce. ... We all change and evolve." (Nicole, 12:58)
  • “You are a different person [after divorce] and you are so much more aware … you will not settle for anything less.” (Nicole, 29:58)
• On Recovery:
  • “Taking financial control of what’s going on—knowing what’s going on—is key. … You just have to get your head out of the damn sand.” (Nicole, 28:12)
• On New Love:
  • “Because one relationship didn’t work, it doesn’t define what the next relationship is going to be. I don’t think you should give anybody that much power over you. … My heart is open to finding love again.” (Kat, 33:27, 34:28)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• Title discussion—Why “Please Don’t Say You’re Sorry”: 00:40–02:07
• Guilt and difficulty of putting yourself first: 02:56–05:54
• Pressure on men and women to stay in unhappy marriages: 05:54–08:17
• On defining abuse and shame: 08:20–10:50
• Parental advice to “not rock the boat”: 07:48, 11:12
• Empowerment through rebuilding: 20:21–22:35
• Nicole’s practical client exercises for independence: 22:35–25:56
• The realities of finances and the cost of ignorance: 27:45–28:12
• Marriage, change, and the “five-year lease”: 12:58–15:04
• Therapy as a make-or-break moment: 16:59–19:11
• Non-negotiables & open communication in future relationships: 29:58–34:28
• Prenuptial agreements & setting expectations: 38:46–46:01
• Nicole on finding love after divorce: 46:01–47:44

Final Thoughts

Nicole and Kat deliver a refreshingly honest, heartfelt, and empowering conversation about relationships, self-worth, guilt, and starting over. Listeners are reminded not to apologize for prioritizing their own happiness, to recognize and break out of cycles of guilt and abuse, and to embrace the possibility of love after hardship. Whether you’re considering leaving a marriage, rebuilding after divorce, or searching for love again, there’s advice, solidarity, and hope throughout this candid episode.

Where to Find Nicole’s Book:

• “Please Don’t Say You’re Sorry” is available in print, on Amazon, and as an Audible audiobook narrated by Nicole herself (47:12).

Closing Advice from Kat:

• Stop over-apologizing, don’t sell yourself short, rock the boat if you need to, and never give up on love.