Dr Nadine Macaluso

Summary

Kat on the Loose – Dr. Nadine Macaluso (June 4, 2025)

Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Dr. Nadine Macaluso

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Episode Overview

This episode of Kat on the Loose features Dr. Nadine Macaluso, a renowned trauma therapist, author, and the real-life inspiration for Margot Robbie’s character, Naomi Belfort, in The Wolf of Wall Street. Nadine discusses her journey from surviving an abusive marriage with the infamous Jordan Belfort to transforming her life, rebuilding her identity, and helping others escape toxic relationships. Kat, herself a survivor of an abusive marriage, and Dr. Nadine engage in an honest, vulnerable conversation about trauma bonds, leaving abuse, rebuilding self-worth, and practical steps to freedom and healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Nadine’s Story: Marriage to the Wolf of Wall Street

• Background

  • Nadine was married to Jordan Belfort (“the Wolf of Wall Street”) for eight years; Margot Robbie’s character in the movie was based on her (03:49).
  • The marriage involved “a quintessential trauma bond”—lavish experiences and deep dysfunction, including abuse and the impacts of addiction (03:53).
  • Nadine was just 23 when she married Belfort, swept up in the “Romeo mask” of charm, generosity, and luxury (04:56, 08:42).

• Living the “Princess Life”

  • From the outside, the relationship seemed perfect: wealth, travel, luxury (10:54).
  • Public and even family didn’t see or believe the abuse (“They always thought it was me exaggerating the situation.” – Kat, 10:55).
  • Nadine acknowledged the significant power imbalance: Jordan “had all the power” (12:00).

Understanding Trauma Bonds & Why Victims Stay

• Two Conditions for Trauma Bonds (18:00)

  1. Power Imbalance: One partner holds control—financial, emotional, or physical.
  2. Intermittent Reinforcement: 70% cruelty or abuse, 30% kindness—“Hope is the hook.” (18:30)

• Cognitive Dissonance

  • Victims experience confusion—“Is he good? Is he bad? Am I crazy?”
  • Abusers often manipulate and gaslight to keep partners off-balance (19:30).

• Why Didn’t You Leave Sooner?

  • Victims hope for change, want to keep families together, or are financially/emotionally dependent (10:23, 18:29).
  • “These guys are master manipulators.” (18:29)

The Breaking Point & Leaving Abuse

• Nadine’s Last Straws (14:53)

  • Physical violence (being kicked down the stairs) was a defining line.
  • Lack of remorse: When Nadine confronted Jordan after his sobriety, he dismissed her pain—“It wasn’t that bad.” (15:23)
  • Safety in leaving: When authorities placed an ankle bracelet on Jordan, Nadine saw it as her “freedom bracelet.” (15:49)

• Safety & Planning

  • “The most dangerous time is when you’re leaving.”
  • Nadine urges women to plan their escape secretly—don’t warn the abuser, gather documents, secure finances, talk to professionals (20:24).

Notable Quote

“Do not tell him. He cannot see you coming. Wear the mask now, act normal, and plan behind the scenes.”
— Dr. Nadine (20:24)

Rebuilding After Abuse

• Loss of Self & Healing
  • Survivors suffer from loss of identity, low self-worth, and PTSD symptoms, sometimes repeating cycles with new abusers (23:12–23:53).
  • Self-education, support groups, and community are crucial.
  • Nadine created the Surthriver Community—an online support space offering low-cost courses, groups, and expert access ($30/month, drnae.com) (25:09).

Notable Quote

“When you’re in a destructive relationship, that’s destructive pain. But when you’re struggling to make things better, that’s constructive pain.”
— Nadine quoting her mother (26:44)

• Practical Tips for Regaining Independence
  • Secretly save money (e.g., “Buy gift cards and stack them up” – 22:07).
  • Secure personal bank accounts and credit cards.
  • Build skills and confidence through small jobs if possible, even if it’s virtual work (36:44).
  • For those who can’t work: Seek DV shelters, join supportive communities.

Breaking the Cycle & Building Self-Worth

• Understanding Patterns

  • Address attachment styles and early childhood conditioning (30:30).
  • Use free tools and assessments (“Find out your attachment, trauma bond, inner critic… on drnae.com” – 33:11).

• Daily Practice

  • Identify and counter your inner critic with written positive affirmations (32:03).
  • Speak kindly to oneself to raise self-worth and openness to healthier relationships (32:58).

Notable Quote

“If you could start to be kind to you, you're going to also start to accept kindness from other people.”
— Dr. Nadine (32:58)

Reflections on The Wolf of Wall Street & Transformation

• On the Movie

  • Nadine had no participation in the film or financial gain; views it as an opportunity to “exploit it to help women everywhere” (27:50–28:13).
  • Jokes about needing a “Wolf of Wall Street Part 2—told from the woman’s lens.” (38:05)

• Transformation

  • Nadine rebuilt her career, becoming a therapist at age 38, getting her PhD, and now helps women worldwide (26:55–27:11).
  • Her work and story are proof that it’s possible to start over and thrive.

Notable Quote

“You can start a whole new life. If somebody would have told me as a young girl, this is what I’d be doing, I would have never imagined.”
— Dr. Nadine (27:30)

Empowerment & Final Notes

• Abuse Is Never the Victim’s Fault

  • Key message: “Abuse is never your fault... but it’s your responsibility to heal.” (35:19)

• For Those Feeling Stuck

  • Employment, no matter how small, is vital to regaining independence.
  • Seek out community—you’re not alone, and help exists.
  • “The only way to end abuse is to leave. Abuse only escalates.” (37:09)

• Contact & Resources

  • Nadine’s book: Run Like Hell
  • Website & Support Community: drnae.com
  • Instagram: @therealdrnadine

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• On why people stay in abusive relationships:
  “Hope is the hook.” — Dr. Nadine (18:30)

• On financial autonomy in relationships:
  “Financial independence, no matter who you are, no matter who you're married to, is very important as a woman, for sure.” — Dr. Nadine (22:25)

• On healing after abuse:
  “You've been so obsessed with this man. What you need to do is turn the mirror back on you.” — Dr. Nadine (23:53)

• On self-talk and self-worth:
  “Find out what your inner critic says to you... and then write an opposite affirmation.” — Dr. Nadine (32:03)
  “Be kind to you, you’re going to also start to accept kindness from other people.” — Dr. Nadine (32:58)

• On rebuilding after destruction:
  “When you’re struggling to make yourself better, that's constructive pain.” — Nadine’s mother, recalled by Nadine (26:44)

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Useful Timestamps

• 03:49 – Nadine’s background & marriage to Jordan Belfort
• 08:42 – Why victims don’t leave: the “Romeo and Dirty John” mask
• 10:23 – Social pressure & not being believed about abuse
• 14:53 – Nadine’s breaking point and how she left
• 18:00 – What is a trauma bond? Power imbalance & intermittent kindness
• 20:24 – Secretly planning escape from abuse
• 22:07 – Practical tips for financial independence
• 23:53 – How to start healing after leaving
• 25:09 – Nadine’s supportive healing community (Surthriver Community)
• 26:44 – “Destructive pain” vs “constructive pain”
• 27:11 – Reinventing career & late bloomers
• 32:03 – Affirmations and the inner critic
• 33:11 – Free online assessments for healing
• 35:19 – Abuse: fault vs. responsibility to heal
• 36:44 – Financial dependence—ways to regain control
• 37:09 – “Abuse only escalates, the only way out is to leave.”
• 38:05 – “Wolf of Wall Street, Part 2: Woman’s Lens?”
• 38:55 – How to reach Dr. Nadine and join her community

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Final Thoughts

This episode is an empowering, practical guide for anyone feeling trapped in toxic or abusive relationships. Through personal experience, psychology, and compassion, Dr. Nadine and Kat Zammuto affirm that it’s never your fault—but transformation is possible with the right knowledge, support, and action. Listeners are encouraged to educate themselves, reach out for help, gather their courage, and remember: “You can start a whole new life.”

Transcript

[A]

My guest today, Dr. Nadine Mancaluzzo, is a therapist specializing in trauma healing and personal transformation. Her incredible life inspired the character Naomi Belfort, played by actor Margot Robbie in the iconic movie the Wolf of Wall Street. Nadine was married to the Wolf of Wall street, real life name Jordan Belfort. After overcoming several personal challenges, she earned a Master's in counseling and a PhD in psychotherapy. Nowadays recover from trauma bonds, post traumatic stress disorder and shame. She's also the author of this great book, Run Like Hell, A Therapist's guide to recognizing, escaping and healing from trauma bonds. If you are out there in some kind of horrible relationship, you don't know how to get out of it. Any kind of bad situation. These are very doable first steps and I hope they inspire you. If I could start my life over after a horribly abusive marriage and she did it too, you can. Sorry. I hope you enjoyed this episode with the fabulous Dr. Nadine. But before anything else, let's talk about sleep. Do you ever toss and turn because you're too hot, too cold, or just can't get comfortable? I used to, but now I have the perfect solution and you won't believe it. It's so amazing. Sleeping Dove is this new luxury comforter invented by an adorable real life couple who had the exact same same problem. One of them was too hot at night and the other one wasn't as hot. But they wanted to continue sleeping together and they wanted a tech free solution. So they came up with this ingenious patent pending design. Each sleeper has their own windows, one at the midsection and one at the feet so you can open or close it to keep cool or cozy just where you need it. The comforters are made from luxurious 100% cotton that feel incredible on your skin. I'm super picky with my linens and I absolutely love the way the Sleeping Dove comforter feels. These are all luxury materials. It's on my bed right now and you know my dog is asleep right next to me, right? I stay cozy all night and when I get too hot, I just open a window. It's so easy. You can choose down or down alternative. Both are cozy, breathable and naturally smart. It's perfect for couples, hot sleepers, expecting moms, and yes, people that sleep with their pets. Right now Sleeping Dove is offering a special discount for the month of June just for new customers. You get an extra 15 off your first order. Go to sleepingdove.com Treat yourself to the comforter everyone's talking about. You're gonna love it and Change the way you sleep forever. Dr. Nadine Macalooza, welcome to Cat on the Loose.

[B]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

It's a huge pleasure having you here. As we were saying before we got looking through your work, and I'm amazed after everything you've been through, how you transformed your life. And I have to tell you, we have a lot in common, because I don't think you know, but I was in a horribly toxic marriage for 15 years. My.

[B]

I'm so sorry. That's a very long time. That's double the time I did.

[A]

Yeah. That's why when I saw the title of your book, Run Like Hell, I'm like, I got to read this book. I have 10 million questions for you. So I do. Let's do this fast and furious. So I want to start with the toughest, because for people that don't know you, you were married to someone. I don't know if it's infamous or famous, but famous at this point, I think he's famous famous. So called Wolf of Wall Street.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Do you want to give us a little bit of the background for people that don't know about? Sure.

[B]

Yeah. So I was married to the infamous Jordan Belfort, AKA the Wolf of Wall Street. So Margot Robbie played me in the movie the Wolf of Wall street, and we were married for eight years, and we had the quintessential trauma bond, which is a toxic, dysfunctional relationship. Right. Now, I didn't know this back then because nobody was talking about narcissism and trauma bonds, but we were married for eight years. It was a crazy, crazy, insane life as the movie depicts. Drugs, rock and roll, just tons of money. But unfortunately, what the movie doesn't show is how traumatized I was and how abusive he was and what his drug addiction did to me.

[A]

Yeah. So, okay, let's stop there, because obviously, it's one of the most iconic movies, most famous movies of all time, the Wolf of Wall Street. So the Margy Robbie character was based out of your real life?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you married this guy and you were super young, correct?

[B]

Yeah, I was 20, 23 when I married him, I think.

[A]

Yeah. So I keep. It's funny because we have so much in common, because it's the same. I married my husband. He was not addicted to drugs, but he was an alcoholic. And I married him when I was really young. But when I marry him, he wasn't an alcoholic yet. It's something that develops and gets worse. Right. And the thing that you mentioned, the movie shows, you know, the drugs and the money and everything. But it doesn't show how painful it is for the partner of a medic that is going through all of that.

[B]

Correct?

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

So. But when you got tangled up with him, like in the very beginning, because I'm not sure if it was the same for me, but I get messages from women all over the world. The number one question they ask me is, why didn't you leave sooner? Why didn't you leave sooner? I just leave sooner. In my case, at the very beginning. You don't know it's going to get that bad. Like, Right. You're in love and you're young. And then when you realize the person may have a problem, I was always like, he's going to change for me. He loves me. He's going to change for me. Was that kind of the same for you?

[B]

Yeah. So when you meet this person, I call them, they have two masks. They have Romeo and Dirty John. So when you first meet them, they're Romeo, they love on you. They're nice. You know, they're generous, they're kind, they're helpful. They say, you're my soulmate. And that's what it was for me. You know, I was a young girl modeling in New York City. I'd grown up in Brooklyn with a single mother. And all of a sudden, you know, he's flying me, you know, on private planes, and we're going to Paris and the Concorde, and we're having $2,000 dinners. And, you know, he's buy me a Bulgari watch. Right. But. Right. So he's only five years older than me, and we just fall madly, madly in love. And then the mask falls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you start to see other parts of this person that can be cruel, that can be controlling, that can have addiction. And by that point, I was already in love. And I'm a loyal, tolerant person.

[A]

Same.

[B]

Right. So I wanted to make it work. And I thought, just like you, of course. Listen, I'm a therapist at heart, right. So I really thought I could fix him Yeah, I do for a living. Even though I don't fix people, they fix themselves. But my job is to help people. And so I'm a naturally inclined helper with a lot of empathy.

[A]

Yeah, I am the same. Although, yeah, I. I got better because obviously my marriage, I mean, 15 years, I was like, this guy's gonna change.

[B]

This guy.

[A]

But now I know, like you said, you know, you can't fix someone. They either want to be fixed and want help, or there's nothing you can do about it.

[B]

Correct. Correct. Correct. And we have to give ourselves grace, because all those years ago, nobody was talking about trauma bonds, nobody was talking about narcissists, nobody was talking about coercive control, all the things that I write about. And so we didn't know about it. I was even in therapy, and my therapist wasn't talking to me about it.

[A]

I was not in therapy. But I will tell you one thing, because. And I don't know if you have a similar experience, because when you marry someone really wealthy to the outside world, you have this perfect life.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

The trips and the homes and the vacations and the cars and the jury. So I remember the few times that I would try to reach out and tell someone, like, you know, this is horrible. He's being abusive to me because he was extremely verbally abusive and sometimes physically abusive. Even my mom, she used to be like, don't rock the boat. Are you crazy? You have this princess life. Nobody really. They always thought it was me exaggerating the situation. Was it kind of the same for you?

[B]

Yeah. You know, my ex was so crazy that, like, it was obvious he was crazy. You know what I mean? He was very like, go big or go home. So what would happen for me is I would go to therapy and I would tell my therapist. But no good therapist is going to tell you to leave anyway because then you won't come back to therapy. Leaving has to be the victim's choice. And when I talk to my friends about it, you know, a lot of our friends, my girlfriends, their husbands worked for Jordan. So it was kind of like Stratton was kind of like a cult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, so even if I told people like my girlfriends, even if I tried to stand up to him, I didn't have the power. He had all the power.

[A]

I know. So what was the. Well, before I ask you about the breaking point, I want to mention I saw a video that you posted on your Instagram account. I think you got millions of views for that. Your wedding day, you're like, My wedding day. And it was like a really fancy wedding. And you mentioned that the part nobody saw is you were sad.

[B]

I was so sad. I was so sad because I was pregnant. Because he had said to me, if you don't. First of all, he made all these demands, if you don't. If you don't marry me, I'm not going to date you. And I was like, oh, God, okay, I'm not ready to get married. Then if you don't have babies, I'm not going to marry you. So here I was marrying him and pregnant, and then he's wasted the whole entire weekend. And I just felt so alone. And the night before our wedding, I got furious with him because I am from Brooklyn, you know, so I'm not a wallflower. And I was so sad and so disappointed, and I couldn't believe it. I'm like, you wanted all this and then this is how you behave? And he was just like, oh, well. And we never resolved it. And then the next day, I had 250 people flying, you know, on the islands, waiting to get married. And I just was like, okay, I'm going to get married. But it's. Was it that. That was such a bad beginning. I mean, the signs were all there. How did I think it was going to go good?

[A]

Crazy how our stories are similar, because I had. I have a very similar story that the day of my wedding, after dating for six years, same. He was pressuring me to get married. He was hammered. Like, hammered, hammered, hammered. He arrived at the church like, over an hour late and then could barely stand there. We got married in Las Vegas. And he was, like, waddling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I had planned this beautiful party, like, at this penthouse suite of the Bellagio and cake and everything, and my closest friends. And he ran to the street and. And, like, attacked the buffet, attacked the cake trash, and locked himself in the bedroom and fell asleep. You know, I. So similar experience. Like, I was.

[B]

I have.

[A]

I have, like, the worst memories of. Which should be one of the happiest days of our lives.

[B]

Yeah, that was definitely. There were a lot of red flags there for me. But again, we weren't talking about red flags then and what I would say, but just be like, oh, it's just like when he wanted me to get married, wanted me to have babies, I was just. Because he loves me so much. But I didn't realize he was taking away my autonomy. He was taking away my whole sense of self.

[A]

So what was the breaking point for you to say? You know what? I gotta get out of this situation.

[B]

In my book, I call them last straws. And I had three of them. One was when he got physically violent with me. Finally he kicked me down the stairs. There's something. Even though the emotional and verbal abuse to me feels just as bad or worse, honestly, I agree. But there's something about that physicality that snapped me. And then when I confronted him after he did finally get sober, and I said to him, you know, this was really so hard. Everything he put me through, the drugs, the rage, he goes, it wasn't that bad.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And I didn't know what the word callousness meant. And I didn't know. But inside my heart closed because I was like, how could you not have remorse or empathy? And then. So I wanted to leave him, but I was afraid to leave him. But then he got arrested and the government put an ankle bracelet on him. And so his ankle bracelet was my freedom bracelet.

[A]

You were afraid to leave because of your physical safety or were you afraid because. Because I know a lot of women are afraid to leave because they depend on their man.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes. For both. Yes. I was afraid.

[A]

I was a part of it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I was afraid financially, I was afraid, you know, men in power. And I've seen this with many of my patients, in cases, they twist the story and say the woman's the drug addict, the woman's the crazy one, and someone has all that power and money, they could pay people off. And I knew that, you know, and I'd seen him do it right, so. But I knew once he got arrested, it was so clear, you are the problem, sir. Yeah.

[A]

And then you got out.

[B]

I got out. I said, that's it, I'm done.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah. So. So. So here's the thing about a child or bond. It has to have two conditions for it to exist. The first one is a power imb, which we've been talking about. The second one is something called intermittent reinforcement, meaning 70% of the time they're cruel, drunk. Right. Addicted, controlling, mean, betraying. But that 30% of the time, they're nice, kind, generous and helpful. So that 30% of the time keeps us hooked. Hope is the hook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When we see that Romeo part, because I call it Romeo and Dirty John, when Romeo is there, we're like, oh, there's the guy I fell in love with. Plus they make promises they're going to change, they're going to grow, they're going to do better, but then their words don't match their actions. And so that's one of the reasons. Right. But also for me, I wanted my. Keep my family together. I wanted to. I had kids, I wanted to make it work. I genuinely loved him. In the beginning, this was something. This was a vow that I took very seriously. And also these guys are master manipulators. So you're getting manipulated and gaslit the whole entire time. So it's a complex. A trauma. Bonds is a complex process. And I want to mention one more thing. Because of the two masks of Romeo and Dirty John, you have a symptom called cognitive dissonance, meaning you feel totally confused. Is he good? Is he bad? Am I crazy? Is he crazy? Is the relationship good or bad? So you're genuinely confused by the relationship. Plus you're in love, plus you're financially dependent.

[A]

Then if you have kids, it's very complicated. So for women out there who are still in these complicated relationships, is there any kind of a third step or a word of encouragement for them to actually gather the forces to get out of it? Because I know you and I did. Regardless of how long it took, I think we are very lucky because we got out and we were able to reinvent our lives and start.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I get messages from women from all over the world and they say, like, how did you do it? I can't do it. I'm stuck. I depend on. But I'm not a doctor, so it's hard for me to respond. Maybe you have some kind of word sure.

[B]

What I say, first of all, you know, we know that when a woman's going to leave it, this trauma bond is the most dangerous time. And we have to take that very seriously. So what I say, you know, inside, when you make that decision, like, I'm not going to stay anymore, don't tell him. Do not tell him. He cannot see you coming. This person who wants power and control over you, if you tell them you're going to leave them, they're going to go crazy. So you have to wear the mask now and act totally normal to their face and plan behind the scenes. Get a lawyer, get a divorce coach, get a good therapist, get all your documents right, get a new bank account, get your own credit card, get everything prepared. Maybe go talk to a domestic violence shelter, right? Read my book, right? Get really educated. And then at the right time, you leave.

[A]

I love that. I think that's a great idea. And I even go further. I made the mistake that I was very financially dependent on him because he was so controlling. The years went by. He made me work less and less and less and less. Like me to work. He was very jealous. He kept saying, even now I know he was humiliating me with phrases like, I make more money in a day than you're ever gonna make in a year. You know, do you think you are la la. So towards the end of my marriage, when I wanted to get out, I have very little, like, in my bank account in my name. I literally had to start over from scratch. So I tell women, even if you do marry a multi millionaire, always keep your own horses, right?

[B]

Of you have to, you have to. And that's why I say, you know what? Immediately get new credit cards, right? And listen, a lot of times I'll tell women, go to Target and Walmart and just for a year, get gift cards and stack them up at home.

[A]

That's very clear. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah.

[B]

But it's true. Financial independence, no matter who you are, no matter who you're married to, is very important as a woman, for sure.

[A]

Oh, my God. And the second part, so let's say somebody out there got out of the relationship part is get or getting organized to get out of the relationship. The second part that is really complicated is to rebuild yourself mentally, right? For me, and that's how I actually started the podcast, because after I left my marriage, the I had this mind that I was a piece of shit, that I was worthless. I thought it was normal to be treated like shit by men. So I kept getting tangled up with the same kind of men that were abusive in some way, mistreated.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's how I started Cat on the Loose. Like, I was literally vamping. And I realized there is millions of women out there going through the same. My process was actually, believe it or not, the doing the podcast and meeting women all over the world and giving them a voice healed me. And it made me wake up and say, wait a minute, you deserve better. You know, the process, it took me many years to understand that we do. We are not supposed to be kicked and beaten and called trash and called a piece of shit. How do women heal? Same thing is their first step. Because not everybody can afford therapy.

[B]

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. So that's why I wrote my book, right? Because the third, whole third part is about healing because you have symptoms of loss of self and you have trauma symptoms called cptsd, and you do have cognitive dissonance. So I lay out in my book how to Heal. But what I. And what I say to women is, you've been so obsessed with this man. What you need to do is turn the mirror back on. You listen to these podcasts, get educated, read books. What are your attachment patterns? How did your developmental trauma shape you? Right. What are your personality traits? Find something that you're good at to build your confidence up. And so what I did recently is because everybody can afford therapy, I started something called the Surthriver Community. And so I took my book and I made it into an online course, and I host a community where you can take my course. It's. I run support groups three times a week, and I bring in experts every week to Talk. And it's $30 a month.

[A]

Oh, I love that. How can people find that? Like, that's you. Finally somebody that is doing something right.

[B]

Because. Because I was. And it took me a year to create it. I mean, a lot of work, but it's. And the way I started in February, the women are loving it. So if they go to my website, Dr. Nay Nae.com, you'll see community on the website. You just click on there, and it's 29.99amonth.

[A]

Gonna join. By the way, guys, listening to the audio episode, the link of our website is here. So when you're done, go there and click. If you're watching the video episode, I'm gonna put it here on the. The bio. Yeah, that's. Yeah, fantastic. Because what we want is, like, actual places that women can go to and feel they're supported, Right?

[B]

That's right. That's right. And I have women. Canada, from London, from Italy, from the United States. And the bet. I mean. I mean, the best part of it aside, the information is the way that women validate each other and say to each other, you're not crazy. I believe you.

[A]

When you left your relationship, did you have a support system like, was?

[B]

I did. I had my family, I had my friends. It was still really hard. You know, I had two little kids. But I put myself in really intense therapy to make sure I could heal from this. But I did have support, and it was hard to rebuild. But honestly, this is what my mother taught me. When you're in a destructive, toxic relationship, that's destructive pain. When you're struggling in life to try to make yourself better, that's constructive pain.

[A]

Oh, I love that. Right.

[B]

So you're. You're. Even though it's hard and it's painful, you're building a better you. A better life.

[A]

But. And after you, like, you became a therapist after.

[B]

Yes, I went back to school. Yeah, I went back to school at 38 to get my masters. Wow.

[A]

Date lady.

[B]

So I'm 57 now. And then I got my Ph.D. and then I wrote a book. So you can do anything. I'm a late boomer.

[A]

You took all this pain and everything that happened to you, and you literally repurposed and transformed it into a new career. And you started this whole new amazing life. And now you help a lot of women out there.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Proof that, you know, you can start a whole new life.

[B]

You can start a whole new life. And, you know, if somebody would have told me as a young girl, like, this is what I would be doing, I would have never imagined, you know, this is what I would do. But, you know, I get to take the most ridiculous, misogynistic movie and exploit it to help women everywhere. I mean, I couldn't have written it better if I tried.

[A]

How did you feel when the movie came out? Did you find it properly?

[B]

Oh, yes. I mean, she was great. It was fine. I thought it was funny. It's a great movie. You know, she was 22. I met her because she wanted to get my accents. And I had nothing to do with the movie. I don't make any money. I took no money. When I left my house, they paid nothing. Nothing.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

You know what? Life isn't fair. But it's okay.

[A]

I would think if they're like, you know, putting literally your life there, and obviously, they. They.

[B]

I know you would think you would.

[A]

Think it looks like you. She's from Brooklyn. It's literally you on me.

[B]

She's me. Yeah.

[A]

Think that, you know, you get some kind of participation.

[B]

I got nothing, and I left with no money, so. But that's okay because my life. Have anything. What'd you say?

[A]

Have a prenup or anyone had a prenup.

[B]

But honestly, when he got arrested, the government, you know, we gave up everything. And I didn't want anything because it was all blood money.

[A]

So how support yourself and your kids?

[B]

So I was in the garment business. I had a maternity company. I had a little store and a website and a catalog. And so I had a business that I built when I was with him. And then I. Then I sold clothing to Walmart and Target. So I was in the garment business for years before I went back to school. Yeah. So I, you know, I did work, but, you know, you can do it. Women. Women are amazing. That's why we give birth. That's why we give life.

[A]

Yes, we are. We are. I think we have a. We are much better reinventing ourselves and getting through this type of pain than most men, actually.

[B]

Yes, I do. I do. And we're, you know, we're living examples. So if you're listening to this, you know, feel hopeful and look for the helpers, because there are, you know, helpers out there that will help you 1 million percent.

[A]

But also another issue. A lot of women when. And. And I, like I said, I was one in the beginning. When they leave a bad, toxic, abusive relationship, they have the tendency of repeating the cycle. I have been. Some girls joke about, like, oh, well, the other day one of my girlfriends said, oh, I like the bad boy. I like the bad boy, but it's not a joke.

[B]

Right.

[A]

At the end of the day, you're hurting ourselves over and over again. Why do we do that? And is there a way to literally break the cycle?

[B]

Yes, that's where you have to go. That's why you have to understand how your developmental early years shaped you, because how your parents responded or didn't respond to you. Why is your brain, heart and body for love? And you need to know how you're wired for love. But you can rework that wiring so that you don't keep choosing people that abuse you. Because, you know, all we have to do is turn on the news and CP Diddy and all these women that, I mean, get actually killed by these men, you know, so it really isn't a joke. And you gotta really be careful because you don't want to end up with one of them if you don't have to. Right. Like, if you can avoid it. Why, why, why not fight to. Like, you need to fight to avoid it. Get educated. Yeah.

[A]

And you don't want to go back. Like, you don't want to leave one and get into another one. Like I did. I kept literally getting tangled up with men. And what broke the cycle for me, like I said, my therapy was the podcast. Because I kept listening my stories out loud and I'm like, are you crazy? You know, I started thinking that, why are you putting up with this? So, yeah, to me, speaking my stories out loud made me realize that, you know, you got to stop it. But if somebody does not have a podcast or if they cannot afford to do therapy every single day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Any kind of mental exercise or any kind of exercise that they can do to real. To understand that they deserve better than another bad boy.

[B]

Yeah. You know, the thing is that I think that we all have an inner critic and a basic exercise that. Find out what your inner critic says to you. You don't matter. You're not worth it. You're not good enough. You're broken. You have to be perfect to be loved. You know, find out what your inner critic says to you and then write an opposite affirmation. You don't have to feel the affirmation, but you have to. Whenever that inner critic, whenever you're criticizing yourself, you have to stop the thought, say, no, oh, that's my inner critic. And say the affirmation. Because the way you speak to yourself really affects how you feel and it affects your sense of self and your sense of self worth. And we don't even realize how mean we are to ourselves inside. So if you could start to be kind to you, you're going to also start to accept kindness from other people.

[A]

It's so true. And actually, I saw something that you have on your website that I loved. I mentioned to you just before the. The recording. I was like, I'm gonna do one, because I like that people can actually do.

[B]

Right. They bring all the assessments.

[A]

Assessments. I love you literally put free assessment tests on your website. Guys. It's amazing. You can go there. It takes like a few minutes. Few minutes questions and you learn so much about yourself. And then you email the answers to the per.

[B]

Because I was.

[A]

Yes, I got the email immediately.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I have all different worksheets on attachment. And it's all for free.

[A]

Yeah, it's all for free. So I think that's a great first step.

[B]

It's a great first step. Great first step.

[A]

Yeah. To realize, like, where are you at in the spectacle?

[B]

It'll tell you what your attachment is. If you're in a trauma bond, have a pathological lover assessment. I have so many assessments. No, it's. It's important because I feel like then the reason why I have the assessments is because if you're not in therapy, you need information.

[A]

For sure. For sure. Now, how'd you come up with the name of this book? I love it, but can you give us the run?

[B]

Like, you know what? Honestly, I can't take credit for it. My publisher came up with it, and when they first presented it to me, I was like, that's not academic enough. And they were like, nadine. I was like, okay. And of course, it's a great title, so.

[A]

But how. I mean, how do you guys come up with. Or the meaning behind it? Because obviously we're all like, hell means get out of the relationship.

[B]

Get out. Just because the whole book is about that. And the only thing is that if you're in a toxic relationship, you can't really have it next to your nightstand, so. But I do have an audiobook and an ebook.

[A]

Yeah. Meaning, like, if you want to read it. If.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To know that.

[B]

Right. You don't want your partner. No. You're planning to run, like, well, put a book cover on the front, but, you know. But that's why I do have an audio book and an e book. So you can read it in private.

[A]

On Amazon.

[B]

On my website or Amazon. Both.

[A]

The most important take from it, like, if people. I'm saying women, because I feel this.

[B]

You know, it is women. Yeah. The most important take is that abuse is never your fault. The abuser will try to blame you. The abuser will say, you made me do this. But if somebody's addicted to drugs or alcohol or somebody's abusing you, you did nothing to cause it. It's their responsibility. But it is your responsibility to heal.

[A]

I love that you said that because it's so true. Like, in my case, during my marriage, so many times I thought I was doing something wrong. Like, every time he would call me names or attack me or abuse me physically, verbally, I would feel like I did something.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

We. We feel like, okay, I'm not being a good enough wife. Why did I piss? I remember I used to say that to me. Why did I piss him off so much?

[B]

Right. You didn't. Trust me. If he wasn't married to you, he'd be treating this, his other, whatever, wife, he had the same exact way, for sure.

[A]

But I know that's the number one thing that a lot of women out there say I can't get out. Number one issue, financial. If somebody depends on their husband 100% and they are being abused and they don't know how to get out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Any suggestions?

[B]

Yeah, I would say get a little.

[A]

Job on the side.

[B]

Yeah, just try to get a little job. Become a virtual assistant.

[A]

You know, a lot of these guys.

[B]

Especially don't let them.

[A]

Yeah, they don't let you work.

[B]

I know. Yeah. And I would say then, you know, join my community. That would be the first thing. Or go to a domestic violence shelter and they will come up with a plan for you.

[A]

Anything is better than staying. Right? Because I think abuse just gets worse.

[B]

Abuse only escalates, and the only way to end abuse is to leave.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. So much. Incredible, amazing information. Last but not least, did he ever, like, reach out to you?

[B]

Oh, you know, listen, we. We raised two children together. My daughter's 31. My. She's a therapist. My son's 29. They're great. Yeah. When I moved, I moved to California and him and I became friends. Now, he doesn't love so much that I'm posting about him all the time, but. Oh, well.

[A]

Oh, well. I mean, he made the movie, like when he wrote the book and he made the movie. You were right there and apparently you didn't have any say on it.

[B]

Right. So I get to do what I get to do. But no, we have a good relationship.

[A]

Great idea, Nadine. Maybe pitch the Wolf of Wall Street Part 2 by lenses of the Woman.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We do the narrator. Sorry, from your side. That would be pretty cool, right?

[B]

That would be great.

[A]

Totally different movie there.

[B]

Totally different. Probably not as funny.

[A]

Well, congratulations on your beautiful work. I'm dying to read the book. I'm definitely going to get it. Guys, check it out. I think the idea of building a community where women can find each other is absolutely fantastic. I'm going to join myself and take the assessment tests as a first step. Right?

[B]

Take it, take it. Please, please, please. And you know, I'm on Instagram as the real Dr. Nadine. You know, hit me up in the DMs. I love to say hi to everybody, Visit my website, Dr. NA.com. read the book, run like hell. And that's a great start to get out of the toxic relationship.

[A]

Absolutely. So I'm going to repeat the Instagram is the real Dr. Dr. Nadine. The website is.

[B]

Dr. It'S-R-N-A-E.com.

[A]

Okay. Of the website is here. Thank you so much.

[B]

It was such a, such a pleasure to meet you.

[A]

Thank you for doing such great work. I'm very grateful.

[B]

Thank you guys.

[A]

Be safe out there. Yes. And get out of any abusive relationship. We all deserve better. Many kisses. See you soon. And this one is for everyone that loves to play poker and is planning a trip to Las Vegas. I just came back from Las Las Vegas. I found out about this and I want to share with you guys because I had so much fun. I'm inviting you to go check out the most fun, most private poker game in town, held right inside Aria's resort VIP poker room. It's called Table one and I love the name and it's very fitting because this is the most exclusive, hottest poker table in town right now. Even if you're not that into poker or new to the game and want to try it out, this is a great opportunity to network with businessmen, athletes and celebrities in a super exclusive environment. Mr. Beast has played there. Dan Bilzerian has played there. Golf pros have played in it. It's like an elite, exclusive social club, but also a really, really fun, cool environment. And you're going to play Texas no Limit hold' Em and you're gonna have so much fun. It's blowing up. Definitely one of the hottest places in all of Las Vegas right now. However, your name needs to be on the list in order for you to gain access. So make sure you send me a message if you want to do it through Instagram katzamuto z a m m u t o DM there or text me or WhatsApp on 1310-692-0578 to reserve your seat for priority access. And I am going to give you some incredible special comps that are only available to my guests. You guys gotta listen to this. They will reimburse your Aria hotel fee for up to $350 for each day you play the game. They will give you private transportation from the airport to the hotel, and they will give you access to special airfare deals for business and first class tickets. I mean, these guys will totally roll out the red carpet for you and you're going to have so much fun. So if you're planning a trip to Las Vegas, let me hook you up with Table one and you are going to love it. Don't forget, send me a message.