B (5:49)

Thank you for having me.

A (5:50)

Thank you so much for doing this. So obviously I have a million questions. You're a guy. We are so confused when it comes to dating and how the mind of men work these days. Are you ready to try to help us out?

B (6:07)

Do my best.

A (6:08)

So the first question is actually mine because I was looking at your YouTube channel and the name of your platforms and the name you have over 35, 000 subscribers on YouTube. You do dating Coach for women and the name of the channel is EZ Dating. Is dating ever easy? Can dating ever be easy? Please tell us the truth.

B (6:37)

Well, I've been doing this professionally for 10 years and myself I've been dating for 23 years. I think it's freaking hard.

A (6:45)

Thank you for being honest. At least he didn't say yes. It's so easy. Nope, it's tough. Okay, good. It's tough.

B (6:57)

Yeah.

A (6:58)

So even with a coach, it's tough.

B (7:02)

Yeah. I mean, I'm very fortunate in that I try to, I think like there's coaches out there that try to like do self work and make you a better version of yourself. I don't do that. I don't have that skill set. I'm a strategy guy and I take women that have already done self work and just want to be put in front of a lot of good men through an online dating system. So for me at this point where I've been partnered with Match, OkCupid and eHarmony for over a decade, I just give them a system to put good men in front of them. For me, that's pretty easy. It's like a science experiment. It's number games that I can do.

A (7:41)

It's a numbers game for me.

B (7:43)

Yes.

A (7:44)

Okay, I got it. So now Valentine's Day is coming up. Let me ask you a question and I want to tell you a super quick story that it's a true story that happened to me. And I started the podcast four years ago and this story happened just before I started the podcast and it kind of inspired me to start the podcast because I needed to vent and I'm going to tell the story again super quickly and then you're going to understand because it's related to the question. I was dating someone, I was married for 14 years, got divorced, blah blah blah, and jumped back into the dating game. Obviously I was so naive when it came to dating. I knew nothing about dating. I started dating someone and it developed into a committed relationship, monogamous. And I really liked the guy. We were dating for like maybe six months. I Think at the time. And on Valentine's Day, he was a very successful executive. I was living in Miami at the time. On Valentine's Day, he told me he was super busy. He was entertaining some executives from out of town, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he was only going to be able to see me at night. So he was like, okay, go to my place, wear some. Some sexy lingerie, whatever, order some dinner and wait for me there. So I did as told. I was his girlfriend. Cutting the story super short. You guys can go back to the first season and listen to the episode Valentine's Day from Hell. I was at his place, wearing sexy lingerie, feeling sorry for the guy, thinking, oh, poor baby, he's working all day. Turns out he was spending the entire day with his ex girlfriend, whining, dining her, giving her expensive gifts like Cartier bracelets, in bed with her, having sex with her. Then he finally got home to me at 10pm, jumped in bed with me without showering. And the only reason why I found out about it is because she started texting me, proving to me what had happened. After that, I forgave him. Dated him. Yeah, I know. You're going to understand the question in a second. Dated him an extra year to find out on my birthday, the following year, March 6, he was cheating on me on my birthday. The same thing with some woman at my favorite restaurant. Because my friend saw him and called me and said, hey, these guys here. So this is the question. Nowadays, of course, I laugh at the story. I think, what the was I thinking? Why? What kind of a woman would be so stupid to put up with this? To forgive, like a cheater, a womanizer, such a creep. What was I thinking? But this is the question for you. So many women do that. They date losers. They put up with this behavior, they accept this behavior, and they come up with excuses. Oh, but I love him. Oh, but he's so nice. And they stay in shitty relationships because they think that's the best they can do or whatever. They justify it. And I get messages from women from all over the world. Do you know why women act like that and they accept this kind of situations?

B (11:08)

Yeah, I do. I've done it.

A (11:12)

Ah, thank you.

B (11:13)

Yeah. So, Kat, I had a fiance back when I lived in New York, and I stayed with her too long, way too long. And we were never going to get married. And it was awful when we broke up. But I think the reason we do it is when we are. When we enter the relationship, we didn't do enough work on ourselves. To decide as a single person. I like myself. I like this life. So when you like yourself, you like this life, then you get in partnership. The moment it's not better than your single life. The moment you can throw that away, and then you just go back to your single life, you're like, this is great. Let me go back to that.

A (12:02)

I love that. That is so true. So what happened with you and your fiance?

B (12:08)

I mean, I was a mess when I dated her. I had bad boundaries. I was a people pleaser.

A (12:16)

Same.

B (12:17)

And I let her do whatever she wanted and push me around. And eventually we would argue, but eventually I'd acquiesce to whatever she needed. So I lost myself. And it was. We had us. She had her thing. I didn't have my thing at all. Like, I totally lost all the stuff I loved, and I became miserable. And so I had to go do some work on myself to find boundaries, to stop people pleasing. And then I could reenter the dating world.

A (12:46)

So how did you figure out you were going to be a good dating coach?

B (12:54)

I mean, this was over 10 years ago, but I just kept getting people into relationships. In terms of some of the skill sets around that, I think I became a dating coach to work on the shit that I needed to work on. And it was a great process for me to get better at life. But at the core of it, when it came down to having a system to get people in front of good options, I think even from the beginning, I was one of the best in the country at that. I was very good at that.

A (13:27)

You just. You just had an instinct to figure out how to match people or were you matching your friends? How did it start?

B (13:36)

Yeah, I mean, I don't want to say I'm that smart. I'm good at stealing stuff, though. My soccer coach at the time was this English guy, bald, English accent, super charming, basically was James Bond. And he showed up in a silver Goldeneye Z3, and he would have two or three beautiful women a week in his car. And we're like, how the heck is he doing this? So then he told us his online dating system. And I'm like, all right, let me see if I could make some tweaks to that, make it even better, and then use it. And all of a sudden, I was getting people dates like crazy using his system with a few tweaks. So much so that that even got me on the Today show where they're like, really? How are you so successful at online dating? Everyone stinks at this. I shared my method and then since then, they've shared some of their analytics. So now everything I do online is based on science, is based on millions of data points, and now we just totally optimize online dating.

A (14:42)

Okay, so based on science, but dating, I mean, I understand you can use all the science in the world, but it's still like most of it is the human part of it, right? Because you can control human emotions, you can control how people react. You can control a lot of it. So you still need to have the. The. The. The component of knowing, right? This person is going to connect to this person is going to connect to that person. You still need to know your client, need to know how to connect people. Doesn't matter how great the science is.

B (15:18)

I mean, you're totally right. I mean, my friend was the director of analytics at eharmony, and he spent countless years trying to figure out an algorithm to get people together, right? And he came up with, basically, it's 50. 50. You could use our system or you could not. It's a crapshoot.

A (15:34)

Because, look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I've tried every dating app on the planet because I do the podcast, right? So I gotta test everything. And yeah, this eharmony and all this stuff, I think it's like a crap shoot. Like, they ask you 10 million questions, but 99 of the time, they. They put like, these dudes, oh, this is a perfect match. No, no. And I look at the. The guys, I'm like, are you joking, right? You're joking, right? That this is a perfect match? It doesn't work.

B (16:01)

Let me help you with how we can actually optimize it.

A (16:03)

Yes, please. We can use all the help in the world.

B (16:07)

Okay, perfect. So what we do that actually does produce objective results is we're gonna message 50 guys asking them on a date. And I suspect when we ask 50 guys out, 12 of them are gonna say yes.

A (16:21)

Like, how do you find those 50 guys?

B (16:24)

We just send blast messages basically on match.com for folks like 45 and older. So we're off the apps. We're on match.com we're messaging 50 guys. We're saying, do you want to go on a date? About 12 say yes. And to your point, from the 12, we just pick one. And now we repeat this six to eight times, and we find someone that we like. So that's where the math and the science comes in. But to your point, you still got to go on the dates. You still got to see if you actually like them.

A (16:56)

Okay, but before you do that. So let's say someone is your client. Let's say I'm your client. Do you ask me what I want in a person, Right?

B (17:07)

Oh, absolutely. But I'm also like, we're sharing a zoom screen, so I'll do it with you. So if you and I are partnered, we're, you know, we look, we send our 50 messages to. We don't care who the 12 of them come back. The 12 we care about. And the 12 you and I are going to look at those profiles, look at those messages, and decide who we think makes sense for a date.

A (17:29)

Oh, I see. And you always pick from match.com if.

B (17:33)

You'Re 45 and over. I would say 100%.

A (17:37)

Why is that.

B (17:39)

So? Unlike the apps like Hinge and Bumble, there should be more in the profile for us to make an educated decision. It's paid and typically matches, I want to say, 88% college educated. So it's a little more affluent, more educated. And typically, my client base is affluent and well educated. So that's what we're looking for.

A (18:05)

And if it's a younger client, what would you recommend? Like, if it's a girl in their 20s, their 30s.

B (18:13)

Definitely hinge.

A (18:14)

Definitely Hinge. Why is that?

B (18:18)

So I think the two big ones right now that people are using at least let's talk United States are Hinge and Bumblebee.

A (18:25)

Yeah.

B (18:26)

And Hinge is if you're looking for a relationship.

A (18:29)

Yeah, we're talking about people looking for relationships.

B (18:31)

Okay, then Hinge is a little more serious than Bumble in terms of looking for a relationship. So I would get them on Hinge.

A (18:38)

Yeah. So let me ask you something about dating apps. My opinion. Okay. I think, of course, there are great things about dating apps. You can meet people that otherwise would. You would never cross paths with it. Sure. However, I think because there's so much availability, dating apps have transformed a lot of men. And I'm talking about mature, successful men in their 40s, in their 50s, in their 60s, into immature men that are behaving like teenagers again. I've dated them. A lot of my girlfriends dated them. They, like, they, like, literally swiping girls like they're ordering pizza on doordash. I say that all the time on the podcast because they're like. They say, oh, yeah, I want a relationship. But then they see all the girls like, oh, my God, look at all these girls. They like me, and they start behaving like, yeah, teenagers. So it becomes like a very difficult game, quote, unquote, because they're saying they want a relationship, but many times they're full of. They're just like feeding their ego. Like, my ex boyfriend literally said that to me when I met him. We met on Bumble and he looked me in the eyes and he's like, I'm so ready for a relationship, blah, blah, blah, you're the girl for me. He was all over my life. We were in a relationship for months and months and months. And then I found out he was still on Bumble. And that's the excuse he gave to me. He's like, oh, I don't really want to go out with any of these girls. But you know, I was married for 20 years and just seeing that all these women want to go out with me, it's feeding my ego. And I was like, oh, I want to vomit. You know, a 50 something year old dude, like acting like a 19 year old. Like I totally lost, like, you know, everything. Like I thought, I can't believe this guy is acting like that. But, but I see that a lot and my girlfriends see that a lot too. And it's really frustrating because we don't know who is serious about a relationship and who is not on these dating apps. Do you agree? Do you see that behavior a lot? Do your clients complain about that?

B (20:51)

I mean, of course. I mean, if you think about it, the folks that want a relationship, a lot of them are in relationship. So the people that are single and consistently single is because they're playing games, they're messing about, whatever. But if you have a good strategy and the proper dating cadence, you're going to figure out if a guy likes you and, and if he's really ready for commitment.

A (21:19)

So what do you mean? If you have a good strategy, what would be a good strategy?

B (21:25)

You're going to hate me for this?

A (21:27)

No, please. We like honesty. We like to learn. I'm not going to hate you, I promise.

B (21:32)

All right. I listened to one of your podcasts and you dumped on this idea.

A (21:35)

But no, please tell me. Look, I'm not an expert. Like I said, I do the podcast because I'm learning like everybody else. Tell me, please.

B (21:44)

All right, so this is really for folks that have trouble figuring out, like, is this the right person? Like, so I built this basically for myself, okay? I would date and I would have sex. You know, for the most part, pretty early date, three, four, five, whatever. And then I would be like, sometimes after the end of date two, I'd be like, this is my partner, I'm gonna MARRY her, like 100% this is my wife.

A (22:10)

Guilty. I've done that before.

B (22:13)

I've done it a bunch of.

C (22:16)

Same.

A (22:16)

Guilty.

B (22:18)

Yeah. So I'm like, this is my wife. And then it ends up. We break up. So I know I stink at this. And so if other people are having trouble, I like taking the hormones out of it. And I love science. I love math. Let's understand this. When we have sex, we produce oxytocin, and there's confusion. We think it's different between men and women. It's actually not. I'm a man, you're a woman. We produce the exact same amount of oxytocin when we have sex. But something very different happens between us because I have 10 times more testosterone than you do. My testosterone almost blocks the oxytocin from doing what it does, which makes it a bonding hormone. So I have sex, and I literally don't feel any more bonded to you versus when a woman has sex, the oxytocin, because she doesn't have the testosterone, goes wild in her body, and she feels very bonded. So for a lot of my clients, women, when they're having sex, they feel super bonded to a guy. And if we had sex after knowing them, think about it. Two, three dates, that's four or five hours. We're like, oh, I feel so bonded to this guy. He's my husband. But it's really just the oxytocin, and we don't really know this guy. It's been five hours. So I find that if we go slower, make them continue to court you, the guy feels like he's earned the prize. He's like, oh, I got it. I got her. This is amazing. I don't want to throw her back into the pond like I want her. And then women get to be a little more discerning without the oxytocin cocktail through them.

A (23:59)

However, yes, I've talked about it a million times on the podcast because it's all over the map. Guys, I never thought I would say this, but this Black Friday. Instead of buying more stuff I don't need, I decided to invest in my sex life instead. We all know Black Friday is about deals, but what would you rather do? Spend hundreds of dollars in stuff you don't need or 69 bucks on improving your sex life? Yes. At baducated.com real talk, no one ever really teaches us how to be amazing in bed. We're just supposed to figure it out somehow, right? Well, that's exactly what I thought until I found educated. I started exploring. Their course is because I Wanted to understand not just pleasure, but connection. And it completely changed how I see intimacy. I learned simple, real techniques that make you more confident, more in tune with your partner, and honestly, more empowered in your own body. Beducated is a safe space for all. And that's my favorite part. No matter relationship status, sexual orientation or gender. So if you're ready to level up your love and sex life solo or with a partner, go to beducate me cat 69. That's my code. Cat K A T 69. To get 65 off the yearly pass. That's their biggest discount of the year. And it's completely risk free. 14 day money back guarantee. So go to beducate me cat 69 and give yourself a gift that will last. I have guy friends that have told me this is a very dangerous game. Because, yeah, guys are hunters. Like a lion. They will play this game. Like they will. Oh yeah, I'm gonna keep dating, dating, dating until she, I can take her to bed. And once I take her to bed, if it's just for that reason, yeah, then they'll let go. So. And I had one of my best guy friends, he came to the podcast years ago and he's like, oh, yeah, if she's gonna withhold the vagina hostage, sure, go for it. I'll fuck somebody else and I'll keep dating her until she lets me bang her. So I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a double edged sword.

B (26:11)

You know, I'm 100% with you on this and I get the male perspective too. And I'm a person that wants to have sex when I like someone, I'm like, let's have sex.

A (26:22)

Same.

B (26:24)

So, but let me explain what happened with my current girlfriend. Some point somewhat early on, I'm like, I would like to have sex. Like, she's hot.

A (26:34)

How long have you guys been together?

B (26:36)

Like 10 months now.

A (26:37)

Oh, okay. So anyway, she's really cute. I saw a video you posted on. I think she's the one on Instagram you guys posted. Yeah, she's really cute.

B (26:45)

Very cute. So at some point I want to have sex with her. Pretty early on.

A (26:50)

May I ask when? Like, how many dates into it?

B (26:55)

That's a good question. I don't quite remember.

A (26:58)

I'm sure you do. Come on. Come on.

B (27:01)

Probably like date three, four, five, somewhere in there, five, six, I don't know. I know that on date two I tried to kiss her and she said no.

A (27:11)

Really?

B (27:12)

I remember that one.

A (27:13)

Okay.

B (27:14)

But what's amazing about this is it allowed us to have a dialogue. So when she didn't want to kiss me, I'm like, should I? Like, does she like me? Like, I don't want to pursue someone that's not into me. So we then had a dialogue. She's like, I'm really into you. I just want to take things slow. I'm like, all right, cool. I'm like, I'll wait till you are pining for a kiss and you have to grab my face. Like, I will wait. Let's go. I like you too. So let's give it a go. And in regards to sex, eventually she said, I don't want to have sex for a while. I want to take this slow, make sure we get it right. And because I really liked her, I was like, oh, that's fine. And because of my past, I was also willing because I'm like, I've messed this up so many times. Let's go slow. But I'm still very sexual. I like to have sex. We did other things. And that allowed to the guys you were talking about that are like, well, I need to have sex with someone else. Well, if we're doing other things, we're satisfied.

A (28:16)

Yeah, but I think the key there is what you just said. I liked her. I think that's the key if you like someone. That's my opinion. And I've had, like I said, so many experts come to Cat on the Loose, and they have opinions on all, you know, different spectrums. Some matchmakers, they come here, they're like, don't have sex for six months. Don't have sex until they put a ring on your finger. And, you know, it varies, but I think the. It's here. If the guy likes you, it doesn't matter if you're gonna have sex on the first date. The third date, the fifth date, I. I was married for 14 years, and I had sex with my husband. I think the second or the third date, and he was madly in love with me. And. And. And I've, you know, and. And obviously, after I've been divorced, like, it's been a show and I've tried all kind. But I think the keys, like you said, this girl, you really liked her, so it didn't matter what she did. Your mind is focused on this girl. So maybe it's not the timing. Maybe it's like the. The mind has to be into the person.

B (29:37)

I mean, you're right. If a guy really likes you, you could have sex on the first date, and you guys are going to be together. Forever if it's meant to be. And for a lot of us, we're not good at deciding. And for a lot of us, when we get oxytocin, it messes up our decision making. So for.

A (29:57)

But it didn't mess up yours once you guys had sex.

B (30:00)

Well, we had sex so late it was, ah, so you waited 20, which I've never waited that long.

A (30:05)

So this girl waited and waited and waited. She was smart. Let's take a really quick break and talk about very easy, quick fix for a problem that a lot of us have super tired eyes. If you're crazy busy like me, some days, there's no amount of makeup in the world that can hide your tired eyes. And this is why I partnered with Marie Marine Collagen eye gels and Collagen facial masks. Dermatologist recommended with hyaluronic acid and pearl extract, a professional treatment for puffy eyes, dark circles and eye bags. Mare M A R E e Eye gels are a fast and delicate fix for tired eyes. I love them. They're suitable for all skin types and also exfoliate tired skin. This is why I like them. Because some days, especially after long, long, long hectic work schedules, right, I wake up and my eyes are so puffy, I look at myself in the mirror like, oh my God, what I'm gonna do. You put them on for a they depuff your skin so fast. You can get yours right now on Amazon or right on their website. Imarie.com I am, as in Mary A R E.com Professional treatment for dark circles, bags under your eyes. Super fast. Dermatologist tested for all skin types. I absolutely love, love them. One question that you guys ask me a lot is how do I record Cat on the Loose? Where do I do it? Is it complicated? Do I use expensive equipment? And the answer is, I do it. With Spotify for podcasters. With Spotify for Podcasters, you can easily upload and manage your podcast, track your performance, and connect with your audience like never before. Plus, with over 300 million active users on Spotify, your podcast has the potential to reach a massive audience. And everything is free. No catch. I love this word free. So if you're a podcaster looking to take your show to the next level, or if you are beginner that just wants to give it a try and start your own podcast, give Spotify for Podcaster a try. Trust me, you will love it. And yes, best of all, it's completely free. All you have to do is download the app and get going. No need for complicated podcasting equipment? Nothing at all. Just come up with a team and get going. Let's get those downloads and streams up. Good luck, have fun. And Valentine's Day is just around the corner. Are you still thinking about an adorable but affordable, which is one of my favorite words, gift for your loved ones. Take a look@girlyalamode.com and girlyalamo shopping. Building a worldwide community for body positivity, self love and inclusion. The Love Collection with adorable casual pieces such as hoodies, sweats, my favorite, which is the reusable organic tote bag. Adorable beanies. So many cute, cute gifts for everybody on your list with beautiful love messages. There is this adorable cozy sweatshirts that I love so much that say spread love, love me more, share love. Go check it out. Girlyalamode Shopping. The Love Collection out now. So many, many gifts. Gifts for everyone. And I think we need love not only on Valentine's Day, but the idea of spreading love is great today and always. Girly A la mode on Instagram.

B (34:08)

Girly.

A (34:08)

G I R I L E a la mode. Girlyalamo.shopping girlyamo.com Smart, but like I said, yeah, I don't know.

B (34:18)

Yeah.

A (34:19)

Okay, wait. I'm going to bring a little reinforcement. I'm gonna bring in my friend Nellie. She's another matchmaker, but she's a Nelly. Come in, come in. Check out on the Loose. I want to expand this conversation. I need two experts because this conversation is very important. Hi, Nelly. Thank you for jumping in.

C (34:38)

Thanks for inviting me back.

A (34:39)

I need two experts here to help me figure this out. I think in this girl's case, she made you wait 20 days, but your mind was like all this waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting made you like her more and more and more and more. So what is your opinion, Nelly? Do you think this is the deal? Like when you're dating a guy, if you make him wait and wait and wait and give him a little bit of foreplay. Foreplay. Foreplay. Maybe that's the key to building up like a long term relationship and keep the guy interested in you.

C (35:19)

I always say if you're looking for a relationship, the key is to establish emotional intimacy before physical intimacy. And for some people, emotional intimacy might be two dates that are really long. For some people it might be two months, you know, and that's where it gets nuanced and it's more individualistic. But I certainly think for men, whether they are conscious about this or not, and I know there's a lot of, of varied perspectives on this, I think if you as a woman put out too early, a lot of men will go to, why buy the cow when she's getting the milk for free?

A (35:57)

Isn't this.

C (35:59)

That being said, that being said, I think if a woman is a quality woman and a man sees her value, he might still be able to get to the emotional intimacy part if the physical intimacy is provided earlier on. So I think it depends on the woman. I think it depends on the man, But I think it doesn't hurt to prolong it and, you know, if that's what your goal is, a serious relationship.

B (36:24)

I think from a dating coach perspective, when I have my clients, if a guy can consistently show up and take a woman on six dates, plus without him getting laid, most of the time, he likes you. Yeah, because let's be honest, any guy that's worth, you know, as Wayne Gold can go get laid. And so if he can go out there and get laid on date two, date three, date four, and he's just looking to get laid, he's not going to make it to date five, date six with you, because that's inefficient. Why would he do that?

A (37:02)

Because, like I said, believe it or not, for a lot of guys, guys, it's the game. It is the. It's the chase. It's the, oh, I'm going to get this girl to. It happens. It has happened to my girlfriends. It has happened to, like, so many girls. I know one of my best friends, she was dating this dude, like, that seemed. I met him. I met a guy. It seemed like he was the whole package, you know? And he kept taking her on date after date after date. Nice dinners, nice restaurant, this and that and that and that. I think they went. They dated for like two months.

C (37:39)

Maybe she wasn't good in bed.

A (37:40)

I mean, they're adults. Yeah, right. But then finally. And it broke my heart. Then finally one night, she's like, okay, I think I'm gonna spend the night at his house. They spend the night at his house. They have breakfast the next morning and everything. Then that night he calls like, oh, you know, let's just be friends. I'm not feeling like, what a fucking creep piece of shit. You know? But it happens, believe it or not.

B (38:06)

Yeah. I mean, I was pretty shocked because I've heard you talk about that stuff a lot. Like, I couldn't imagine putting in all this effort to get laid and then not being like, I'm horny four days later or three days later, let me get laid again. Like, why Would you just do all that work and then not do it a few more times?

A (38:22)

That's what I'm telling you. It's. It's. And yes, it breaks my heart because I feel for a lot of men, and I don't know if you don't. You would never get these messages on. On your social media.

C (38:34)

So with your friend, for example, if this guy invested 20 dates in her, I just kind of feel like she must have sucked in bed. But I don't know.

A (38:45)

I mean, I don't know.

C (38:47)

I don't have a rigid rule. I. I think the people who say, wait three dates, wait four days, wait five days, like, everyone's different, you know? But really, emotional intimacy is, I think, the key. That's what I would say.

B (39:03)

I mean, some men are superficial. We need. I mean, we're in Los Angeles. Like, he may have. If he has. And we know men have 25% more receptors from their eye to the brain than women do. So perhaps when he unwrapped the package and he just didn't like what he saw, and he's like, well, I'm gonna get laid. He was like, all right, let's understand men. Let's not say it's right or wrong, but this is what it is. Men, probably most of them, they're like, first prize is falling in love. I would love to be in love. That would feel amazing. But second prize of getting laid, that's a decent second prize. So maybe he was like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna be in love, but I'll get my second prize.

C (39:46)

You know what's interesting?

A (39:47)

That's. That's a. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, that's very honest. That's a good way to put it.

C (39:52)

I've had, I think, an interesting experience even dating in la, where men will sometimes not even try to, like, sleep with me. It's weird.

A (40:02)

Really?

C (40:02)

Yes. There are. Yes. I've gone on dates with some guys, and I'll like them and I'll be, like, into it, you know, and they will just reject or friend zone me.

A (40:15)

And not even try, because they know you're looking for a serious relationship and you want to get married because you tell everybody.

C (40:21)

But wouldn't you at least want to hit it?

A (40:24)

No.

B (40:24)

Well, like, are you advertising that you're gonna give it to them quickly?

A (40:28)

No. She tells them, you tell them you want to. You ready for a serious relationship and you want to get married?

C (40:33)

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's usually the impression But I'm also, I think I'm selective with the guys I choose. Marriage minded men.

B (40:39)

Yeah. So it's perfectly logical if I go on a date with someone, I find them attractive and I'd love to have sex with them, but I know I wouldn't date them the moment they're like, well, it's gonna take a lot of work. Well, I don't want to do a lot of work.

C (40:52)

What if it won't take that much work?

B (40:55)

I mean, if it's not that much work. But once again, like, we're much. A lot of men are more excited about an opportunity of first prize, which is falling in love.

A (41:05)

You really think so?

B (41:07)

Yeah.

A (41:07)

I thought they think the first prize is like, okay, I just want to get laid.

B (41:11)

I mean, that's a very.

C (41:13)

I would echo what you say. I think a lot of men, the concept of falling in love is something that feels very exciting and rare.

A (41:21)

Really? I'm happy to hear that.

B (41:23)

Don't get me.

A (41:24)

Like, I really am happy to hear that.

B (41:25)

Until I was maybe through the first 24 years of my life, I was like, she's hot. I want to have sex. And that's the only thing that really worked for me was my eyesight. I was like, are they attractive? Do I want to have sex with them? But eventually it's like once you have enough sex, you're like, I would really like to have a good conversation and be able to hang out with this person and not want to like stab my ears out during the date with how boring this and awful this is.

A (41:52)

I know, that's the best part, right, of being in a relationship. Of course great sex is so important, but waking up with a person, traveling, spending the weekend, waking up together, these things are so important. Now both of you mentioned la, la, la. I don't think dating good people, bad people players have anything to do with geography, do you? Because, I mean, I lived in Miami. I think Miami is a shit show. I have friends in New York that complain about dating. In New York, do you think like certain areas are worse than others when it comes to dating?

C (42:29)

Yes. What do you think, Mike?

B (42:35)

I mean, I've helped people all over the world and especially in the us There's a lot of variables that affect dating specifically, like New York City, it's four educated women to one man.

A (42:49)

Oh, really?

B (42:50)

Yeah. So in New York City, if you're a guy, it's a gold mine, really. And believe it or not, LA is much better for women. There's more men here and San Diego, the Same actually. If you go down the east coast of the US it's mostly great for men where there's more single women and on the west coast it flip flops and there's more single men.

C (43:12)

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

A (43:14)

Yeah, and I did not know that, but that's good news.

C (43:19)

I would say geography definitely plays into the difficulty level because when you're in a big city there's probably more transient people, there's perhaps just, you know, more abundance of single people. Like in a lot of middle America, especially suburban middle America, you know, you're gonna find more married couples, more high school sweethearts. And so I've worked with people who live in remote areas and it's easier to find marriage minded people who are there because there aren't a lot of people who are single in general. And the people who are there, they're more serious. Whereas in place like la, people sometimes just date to date. You know, you've got dinner daters, you've got people who are, you know, just, they want the, the trophy girlfriend or whatever. So I just think it's more competitive in big cities. But it depends on the individual options too. You know, there are more options, but like you said, we're living in a bit of a fast food dating culture. And so I think more options, sometimes you have a little bit of like people go into like analysis is paralysis or they have paradox of choice, right. Where it's like so many options and you always want to, you know, see if the grass is greener. Whereas in other places too that perhaps are also more faith driven, you might have people dating with more wholesome values. No, that's my take.

A (44:38)

Let me thank another question, Mike. Do you think somebody that is dating. Because I, I know a lot of girls do that. Somebody that's dating a guy who is afraid of commitment or like a boy or a guy that you know, doesn't want to get married or doesn't want to move in together or is not sure about what he wants. Is it possible to change a man? Look, I. Guys, if you are listening to the episode, go watch the video episode on YouTube or Spotify right now. So you see his face, please, because your face already answered the question. But can you please, because I get this, this message all the time and I don't know, but is it possible to change a guy? Slowly convince the guy to be the man you want or forget it.

B (45:36)

No, no. I mean this goes into my point earlier of if we went slower and saw his true intentions, we wouldn't be in this situation, okay? Like, we've got to do the pre work. The pre work is I've got a decent life. Like, I don't love my life. Like, it's good. Like, I got a good job, good friends, good family, all right? My life's good. Now I want to add a guy, and I'm not going to put up with this shit. Like, he's got to be legit because I have a pretty good single life. I'm not giving that up unless this guy's the real deal.

A (46:17)

Okay? So if someone is dating a guy out there who you know, he's not gonna. He told you he doesn't want to get married, or he told you he doesn't want to have kids, or he told you he doesn't want to be in a committed relationship, there is no point in staying and thinking he's going to change for you. You don't think men change?

B (46:36)

Absolutely not.

A (46:37)

He's absolutely not.

B (46:39)

All right, well, fine. Let me be fair. Since I'm a math person, you're a math person. And if you're a math person listening or watching, 98%, I would say he's not changing. And don't think you're the two percent. Everyone thinks they're the two percent.

C (46:57)

Everyone thinks they're the exception and not the rule.

B (47:00)

The chant. Like, I've been doing this for 10 years. I've talked to thousands and thousands of people. I think I've seen a flip flop. If I think back maybe once or twice. And I've talked to, like, everyone who calls me is like, well, almost everyone who calls me has this situation. I got this guy, and he, like, kind of wants to commit or he doesn't want to get married. Dump him. They don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear that.

A (47:22)

Yeah, no, I know.

C (47:24)

Same.

A (47:24)

Because I get messages like that from people from all over the world and. And 99% of the time, women saying, oh, my God, he loves me. He's gonna change for me. He's. I'm like, I'm sure he will not. I think it's such a waste of time thinking that somebody's going to change for. I think it's the biggest waste of energy that anybody can. Can. Can do. I'm glad you said that because you're the expert. Do you agree, Nellie?

C (47:52)

Yeah, and I'll just add to that sentiment as well. I think self awareness is really key as a woman. If you are dealing with a man who has commitment issues, you know, Ask yourself, why am I attracted to people who have that avoidant attachment style? What is it in me that feels I need this person so badly? Right. It goes back to feeling whole within yourself and feeling like you're good with or without someone. And when you have that anxious attachment style that's attracting you to toxic men or attracting you to someone who's commitment phobic or thinking you're gonna change someone, is that coming from something deeper? And I think that's why it's really important to become a version of yourself that is operating on your highest vibrational frequency. Not to sound too woo woo or hippie dippy for people, but essentially becoming again, solid within so that you can find someone who is also solid and you can attract in a healthy relationship.

A (48:54)

But sometimes guys change in terms of like, let's say, like in your case, like you said you had a fiance and everything was going wrong, blah, blah, blah. Many times men will change in terms of like, if they find the right person for them, like, they will play the field. Play the field. You know, they will go out on a bunch of dates, but if, if they meet the one woman, it's like, okay, that's it. I like this one girl. They might change their behavior for that one girl.

B (49:24)

Yes. But they make that decision instantly when they meet her, not later, once he's already had sex. He's made that decision on date two, probably on what category he thinks you're in. If he's taking you on dates, a lot of the time he's like, all right, this is probably a relationship. And at some point he may downgrade you to, oh, I just want to have sex. Yeah, but once he downgrades you into sex, the chances of him then upgrading.

A (49:51)

You back are very small. Like, it's not gonna happen.

B (49:55)

Yeah, but to your point, absolutely. There's men out there that are just, I'm gonna go have sex and. Or I'm gonna go meet girls and this is gonna be fun.

C (50:03)

Yeah.

B (50:04)

And then all of a sudden they run into this woman and they're like, whoa, she's amazing. And she's so amazing. He's like, well, I don't want to meet other women. I just want to focus on this that happens. But this other nonsense, so unlikely.

A (50:17)

I know. And it's so heartbreaking that so many people insist on that, like with this dream that the person is going to change for them.

C (50:24)

It reminds me of that famous scene in When Harry Met Sally where Sally was with her. I think it was her ex fiance or boyfriend and she goes, it's not that he didn't want to get married. It's that he didn't want to get married to me because she found a guy right after.

A (50:39)

That's always the end of that phrase, phrase, right? I don't want to be in a relationship. I don't want to be in a relationship with you. Because with the right person, we want to do everything right. With the right person, you want to have sex with the right person, you want to be in a relationship with the right person, you want to get married with the right person. Right now, we were talking about before we run out of time. Oh, my God, this goes by so fast. We were talking about dating apps. It's a little bit of a shit show out there and everything. Do you have any recommendations, people out there listening? If you don't want to deal with the dating app, if you want to, any other way that you can potentially meet partners you can potentially date?

B (51:18)

Yeah, I'm all about strategies.

A (51:21)

Strategies. And I'm also like, I like strategies. I never tried strategies before.

B (51:27)

I'm freaking lazy. And so all I do is look for competitive advantages. So what I would suggest to people.

A (51:36)

We can try that if you have.

B (51:37)

A lot of social skills, like, if you're not a social person, don't do this, but go to Whole Foods, go to a park, go to Barnes and Nobles and just go talk to people. Now, if that sounds scary. What I used to do, this was like nine years ago, I went to Chelsea Market in New York City, which is just people zooming by you. And I had this one woman, and what she would do, Isabella, she was an animal. She would just wave at guys, and so as they were coming by, she'd give her this big wave. And men would do one of three things. And if you're on the podcast, I'll try to describe this, but they'd either kind of quasi wave back and then look behind them and like, is she waving at me? And then she'd point at them, be like, yeah, you. And then wave again. And then what this wave would do would then get us a yes or no. The guy would either wave back, and that meant he was open to communicating, and she'd be like, come here. Or he would, like, put his head down and do that New York thing.

A (52:44)

I don't know if I would do that. Yeah, it takes a lot of offsets.

B (52:48)

Well, let me explain how successful. I know no one wants to do this, but it's so successful. I used to do this at a bar I'd hang out with my buddies, I'd wave at 10 women and three of them would give me the big wave. And then when I was ready, I was like, all right, these are the three women that want to talk to me in the bar. The other seven don't greatly. These are the three I'm gonna talk about.

A (53:04)

I like when guys do that. And guys are very shy about approaching women in public. Very shy. At least here in la. Do you agree?

C (53:12)

Yeah. I think the key to dating is almost the same as the key to investing, diversification. It's great to be on the apps. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. To your point, go out in person. Make an effort to plant yourself in social environments and also environments where you're gonna meet like minded people. Like, if you want someone active, we live in California. Go on a hike. If you want someone who's a skier, go to a ski resort. You know, if you want someone healthy, whole foods, erewhon, you know, seek out places and environments where you're gonna meet people who have shared interests and think about where your ideal partner might be on a weekend or on a weeknight.

A (53:52)

I like that idea. If somebody wants to work with a coach and your strategies and your numbers game, that sounds like an interesting approach as well. How do they find you?

B (54:02)

Yeah, my website is the letter E, the letter Z, Easy dating coach dot com. And then if you want free stuff.

A (54:11)

I have, I don't know, everybody likes free stuff.

B (54:14)

I have 160,000 followers on TikTok, another 40 on YouTube. So awesome, go watch some free videos. But also I have like a whole section on my website called free content. And I have like a lot of things on there. And then I have my book coming out in the next week. Probably by the time you put this out, it'll be out.

A (54:31)

Yeah.

B (54:32)

So you can get the book.

A (54:33)

What is it called?

B (54:35)

Successful dating for women over 50.

A (54:37)

Congratulations. That's amazing.

B (54:40)

Thank you.

A (54:40)

So you have a lot of happy, successful clients that find their perfect match. Okay, that's very encouraging.

B (54:49)

Yeah.

A (54:50)

Never give up on love. So all the single ladies out there, that might be a little sad, discouraged from dating, especially Valentine's season. What do you say?

B (55:01)

I mean, this is the best time to date. We know that everyone joins online dating. January, February.

A (55:07)

Oh, yeah.

B (55:07)

This is a great time. And to speak about competitive advantages, do online dating differently than everyone else. Everyone is looking at the picture and the picture makes the decision. Take that out of your decision making. Instead, make the profile. 85% of your decision. If you do that, you will start getting access to men that or women that actually make sense to you versus just making the decision based on the picture.

A (55:37)

Because unfortunately, most people put the shittiest pictures, the crappiest pictures. They don't know how to choose good pictures. Right? Especially guys, right?

B (55:46)

Oh, guys are awful. They'll be like, super close up.

A (55:50)

Yeah, stop posting pictures with the fish guys and the weird animals.

C (55:58)

I lived in Florida for nine years, so I am so not bothered by a man holding a fish.

A (56:02)

So bothered. Like, look at my fish. Look.

C (56:05)

Well, if it's a massive tuna, then that's impressive. Listen, I will say this. If political alignment is important to you, the fish can tell you a lot.

A (56:19)

Oh, my God, you're too funny. No, I just want, like, simple photos that show your lifestyle, that show your face. Right? Something simple.

C (56:28)

Professional photos go a long way too. I always tell my clients, you know, get a photographer that's worth the money.

B (56:34)

So, like, I like, so I would do a great job for my clients, but for myself, I did a shitty job. I'd be like, all right, I just spent all day helping people build their online profiles. So for me, I'm putting up these shitty pictures and I'm gonna do a half assed job. And I'd read my profile like, mike, this is embarrassing. Like, you're supposed to be good at the. Anyway, so then last winter, I had some friends help me rewrite my profile because I couldn't do myself. I just hated it for myself. I love doing it for other people. And then we got upgraded the pictures, upgraded the profile, and maybe I was getting like two to four messages a week from women. Got up to 10.

C (57:14)

It's overnight, honestly, for a lot of my clients. I tell them, get on the apps. And then when we make their profile and we really refresh it night and.

A (57:24)

Day, if both of you saw my profile, I think you guys would cringe. You would be so mad at me because I make it, like, really, really, really tough. Well, the thing is, like, really tough, because I want to weed out like 99.9% of people.

B (57:38)

Give me an example of how you make it tough.

A (57:40)

Kind of like, you know, I'm really. I take great care of myself. I have very high energy. I am very successful. I am this, I am that and that. And you have to be all of these things.

B (57:52)

Wow.

A (57:53)

And I live in Beverly Hills. Like, I just like, you know, this is what I want. And, you know, I just make it really tough.

C (57:59)

What's interesting is you have to remind Yourself that. First of all, online dating is a two dimensional experience and people don't know you the way you know you. The way your friends know you when they're looking at your profile.

A (58:11)

No.

C (58:11)

So you got to give them an impression that's like appetizing. You want to make yourself, you know.

A (58:16)

It'S like looking at me. I totally agree. It's almost like I'm like, okay, just, I'm almost testing them. Who has the guts to approach me because I'm making it so hard for everybody.

B (58:26)

Hey, Cat.

A (58:27)

Yeah, but I get messages. I gotta. But very, very rarely.

C (58:31)

Who wants to step into the dragon's den?

A (58:34)

Very rarely. I. I'm like, o.

B (58:36)

So think about this though. So like this hyper masculine guy that the guys that are messing you must be hyper masculine because they've got to be like, I'm even bigger and better than her.

C (58:47)

Yes.

B (58:47)

But this guy that's big and bad.

A (58:49)

They all say they are and you.

B (58:51)

Know, but they don't want to deal. I just want to be honest with you.

A (58:54)

Yeah, I agree.

B (58:55)

They want a feminine woman. They don't want to compete and they feel like they have to compete with you.

A (59:01)

I know, but they don't.

B (59:03)

I know, but that's what your profile is saying.

A (59:05)

I agree.

B (59:06)

And I, I'm talking to you right now. I don't feel like I have to compete with you. I'm having a great time with you and that's who you are. I know, but your profile's not saying that.

A (59:13)

Every time when they meet me, all the guys that, that I date, they meet me, they're like, oh my God, you're so different. You're so sweet and you're so nice and you're so, like, you know, so different from your profile. I thought you were so bougie and you're so different from your pictures. But they have a but that's what I want. I want to see if they cross the fire to find out.

B (59:35)

Now you've ruled out all, like, I.

C (59:38)

Know the most eligible guys.

B (59:39)

I'm super successful, I'm emotionally available. Like all the things that woman never would get a message from me. It's too combative. Why do I want to compete with that?

A (59:49)

I guess I have to change my tactic just a little softer. Yeah.

B (59:54)

And you'd be surprised. You're actually going to get the guys that are successful, that are emotionally available, that are good talkers, that are going to take you on a great date. And more importantly, they don't cheat because.

A (60:06)

Yeah.

B (60:06)

The guys that the reason you keep getting the. The guys that compete. Those are the guys that are having the games that want to, you know, it's a game when. Let me go bang whoever on Valentine's Day and then come home to you because you're something they have to compete.

A (60:21)

No, but listen, that was four years ago. Like, I would never date, you know, I was a completely different person then that I am now. You know, obviously I learned so much. It was a process, you know, like you said you were a different guy when you were at a fiance from the guy that you are now. It's the same with me. I changed so much. I'm a much stronger person. I would never date, you know, this crazy womanizers that cheat on me. Nowadays, I date a much more solid, nicer guy. But yeah, I think I need to be a little bit nicer and more soft on my.

C (60:53)

Lean into your feminine energy.

A (60:55)

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

C (60:56)

What do I always say?

A (60:57)

I need to.

C (60:58)

Men like to be around women who make them feel like men.

A (61:00)

Yeah, no, for sure. I agree with you guys. How did you meet your girlfriend?

B (61:06)

Believe it or not, on hinge. Even though she lives like a hundred feet from me.

C (61:10)

No way.

B (61:11)

We've lived 100ft from each other for four years. Never ran into each other.

A (61:15)

Wow. So it was really meant to be.

B (61:18)

I hope so.

A (61:19)

Wow. Looks like you're very happy.

B (61:21)

Yeah, we're about to go travel the world. Leaving Friday.

A (61:24)

Wow. Where are you going first?

B (61:26)

Guatemala.

A (61:27)

Guatemala. Well, I hope you guys have an amazing time. Thank you so much for doing this. I will definitely try your videos, your new approach. Thank you, Nelly, for chiming in. Of course. You guys are amazing. Congratulations on all your success. And you guys can watch the video episode and all his fantastic videos on E. Easy dating. Right, Mike?

B (61:49)

Easy dating coach.

A (61:50)

Easy dating coach. My Goldstein. Thank you so much. This was a really fun cat on the loose. Never give up on love, right, guys? Never until every person. Thank you, guys. I'll see you very soon. Yeah. Thank you.