A (5:26)

It's an honor to be here. Thank you.

B (5:28)

When I found out about your work, I was like, okay, I'm intrigued because you said you, you basically specialize on, on, on teaching people how to bring their exes back or how to forget about their exes. But mostly how to bring their exes back. So, obviously, I have a million questions about it. I think most of us have. Have had our hearts broken, have thought about bringing our exes back. But I'm going before I ask you the. I want to ask a tough question first and foremost, but I'm going to start with a tiny story. Of course I've had my heart broken a million times, but a while back, I think almost two years ago, I was dating someone, and I thought he was a great person for me, blah, blah, blah. He broke up with me over the phone. And I. I was, of course, licking my wounds for a while. And after a. A certain period of time, I. I actually did a post on my social media, and I wrote the only good ex is exercise, so you look even better for the next one. Meaning in my mind, I don't think it's a good idea in general to want your ex back. So when I saw your work and I did listen to a lot of episodes of your podcast, I think I did a lot of my homework about you, and I do think you're great.

A (6:53)

Thank you.

B (6:54)

But in general, let's start with the tough questions. Why would it be a good idea to want to bring an ex back? Like, especially someone that broke our heart.

A (7:04)

Right? That's always everyone's first question, so I'm not surprised. Here's the thing. At some point, if you date long enough, you know, unless you get married and stay married, you're gonna meet someone and they're gonna break up with you and you're gonna want them back. It's not logical, but you're not coming from the logical side of your brain. And always. It's also not always a bad reason why they broke up with you. You know, if you didn't cheat, if you didn't take them for granted, maybe they lost interest because maybe you were doing something. Maybe you were too anxious, you were too pushy, you were out of control, and they broke up with you and you want them back. So it's not my job to say, no, you should not have your ex back. It's my job to help you because you're going to want them back anyway. So.

B (7:49)

But. Okay, but let me. You're saying you're gonna want them back, but. What. But. But do you. So. And I understand you're saying it's your job, but. But do you think it's a good idea? And my. And my headphone is not working, but we're gonna keep rolling. But do you think it's a good idea to want them back, do you think? Your professional opinion, do you think it's a good idea?

A (8:13)

It depends on the reason for the breakup. Sometimes it's a fake breakup where people are triggered and in the spur of the moment they go, that's it, it's over. And then they think about it later and they're like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have broken up with them. It really depends on the reason for the breakup. Not all relationships. Most people can't communicate effectively because they're triggered. And so they go into the age that they were when that trigger was caused. So now you're, they're five years old and if the other person is also triggered, now you have two five year olds fighting, right, Instead of two adults. You think that people are going to communicate effectively, but most people can't unless they worked on themselves. So unless there was abuse. If you want your ex back, I say, hey, if you're going to play in the street anyway, if you're going to want your ex back anyway, at least let me show you how to play in the street and not get run over.

B (9:02)

Okay? Now here's another problem for me also, okay? Obviously you'll notice I have a bunch. No problem. That's another problem for me. In my case. If someone left me, to me, it's kind of like breaking glass. Even if they said they did, they went to therapy or they realize I'm the, the most wonderful woman because it has happened. Like, I have had instances that people left me and they realized a mistake because it happens, right? They, they realize, oh my God, that woman is so fantastic. She's so hot, she's so beautiful, she's so intelligent, she's so successful, they realize they made a mistake and they want us back. I would always feel, ah, what if I take them back and then months down the road they decide to, you know, make that decision again to leave me? I would always have that feeling on the back of my head. I would never feel 100% like secure, like I could trust them 100%, right?

A (10:07)

So that's why I have the six questions to ask your ex when you want them back.

B (10:12)

Ah, can you tell us?

A (10:14)

I don't know if I'm able to remember all six. One of them is, why do you want me back? What's going to be different? Why should I take you back? How are you going to make it up to me? Those are four. The other six you can find on YouTube.

B (10:29)

Okay, but even if they, they answer because when somebody wants something badly well.

A (10:35)

They have to give you great answers. They can't just say, oh, well, I.

B (10:37)

Miss you, and then you trust them and then they give you all the.

A (10:40)

Great answers to you. Well, no, then there's. There's a probationary period and you see how they're going to behave because people make mistakes. So I mean, there's my clients, they got back together, and now they're married and some of them have children. And those children would not exist if I hadn't helped them get back together.

B (10:58)

Oh, my God. So you think I understand what you're saying? You're saying in some cases it can be a good idea.

A (11:06)

Yes.

B (11:06)

Some cases it works.

A (11:08)

Yes.

B (11:09)

But most of the time it's probably not a good idea.

A (11:12)

Well, most exes don't come back. Right. And part of the reason is because people don't know what to do when they want their ex back. They do all the wrong things. They do the total opposite. It's counterintuitive as to what you should do because you're coming from your fearful brain, you're anxious. And so they call their ex, they chase them. And it's the total opposite.

B (11:30)

Yeah, we're definitely going to talk about that because I saw you. You do mention that. I, and I completely agree. When somebody breaks up with us, the first instinct, of course most people is to cry and say, oh, my God, I miss you. Don't do this to me. And I can't stand when we men do that. And I beg them, like, please have some self respect. Do not beg someone. I don't care how much it hurts. Do not beg someone. And I've made this mistake, of course.

A (12:04)

I think, because we all have. We all have.

B (12:06)

But, you know, have some. I think self respect and self love is like one of the toughest, most important lessons we should learn. Because I think there's nothing more humiliating and awful than begging someone to love you. I think that's awful. But most people do do that. Like you call, call, and you text and the drunk text and like, please give me. And I agree with you. That's the worst technique to get someone back. Right?

A (12:29)

Absolutely.

B (12:30)

That backfires.

A (12:31)

It doesn't work.

B (12:31)

It doesn't work.

A (12:32)

Never.

B (12:33)

Hence, you created an entire method and you even have an app which for a lot of people that don't know, you are Italian. I love it. Right. Lucia, you created an apple called silenzio. For those of you who don't know what silenzio means. It means silence.

A (12:53)

In Italian.

B (12:54)

In Italian. And you basically, you created this whole army that you call it on your phone. See, I did my whole.

A (13:02)

Good for you.

B (13:03)

I was listening to your podcast last night and I'm still thinking like I. By the way, for the record, I don't want any of my exes back.

A (13:10)

In case they're listening.

B (13:12)

Oh, and they listen.

A (13:13)

And they.

B (13:14)

That's the. We're also going to talk about that like. Cuz I have a million question about that. Why do X keep listening to our work?

A (13:20)

Right.

B (13:21)

My book. Let's talk about the. The app first and then we're going to talk about the Axis. But you created this whole.

A (13:27)

You call them the, the no Contact Army.

B (13:30)

The no Contact Army. So let's explain to people what you mean. It's. Your whole method is if someone dumps you, don't talk to them.

A (13:39)

Yeah. So we have a slogan. It's called we don't react. We do no contact. And basically that means you disappear like you're in witness protection.

B (13:51)

Do you block them?

A (13:52)

No. Okay, so you don't. Not initially.

B (13:55)

Not initially. I don't block them because I'm like, hey, if you want to see what you're missing out, dude, go for it.

A (14:03)

Yeah, absolutely. Do not block them because you're going to use social media to tempt them and to show them that you're moving on and maybe you're with someone else.

B (14:12)

Yeah, I don't post my personal life because I think that's a bit much. But yeah, I agree. I also don't block. And. And that's another question that I want to ask you. And, and I think you answered in one of your podcasts. Why do people dump us? And they continue following us, looking at our social media.

A (14:36)

The majority of exes will continue to stalk you.

B (14:39)

Why?

A (14:39)

Which is a pain because it's like, listen, you broke up with me. Go away, leave me alone.

B (14:44)

So why do they do that?

A (14:46)

So many reasons. First of all, they want to see if you're doing better without them. Or they just want to see if you're suffering or how you're doing.

B (14:55)

They're never gonna see us suffering.

A (14:56)

Right, Exactly. A lot of times it's curiosity, but people think, oh, my ex is watching, he must be interested, she must be interested. Usually not. They have to make a move. So I don't care if they're watching. I don't care if they're liking your posts like in your story. You do not respond to those that are breadcrumbs. They're trying to tempt you because their ego's hurt. If you don't Speak to them after they break up with you. If you accept a breakup and just go, okay, no problem. I wish you the best. And then you disappear. They're gonna be like, wait a minute. I thought you were gonna be begging me. At least, you know, like, their ego is hurt, their pride is hurt, and they're like, did she ever really like me? Is she seeing someone else? What's going on? Like, curiosity a lot of the time sometimes.

B (15:38)

And I completely agree. If you move on, like, especially with class like that, okay, you know, whatever. You hurt me, but I'm moving on with my life. Goodbye. And you go and you go do your own thing. I agree. It messes their ego and it messes there. And they're wondering, is she doing better without me? Right. I completely agree. That works. It has worked for me many times before. But sometimes, let's be realistic. When somebody dumps you, it's really because they don't like you anymore. They don't want to have nothing to do with you. And many times even worse, they found somebody else. Yeah. And then they don't care about what you're doing.

A (16:12)

Well, apparently they do, or they wouldn't be stuck in your social media. It's not that they don't like you. It's that their interest level dropped. Interest level? It goes from 0 to 100. If they're over 50 in interest level, they're with you. If they go below 50, that's when they.

B (16:27)

What do you mean, if over 50?

A (16:28)

If someone's interest level on a scale of 0 to 100 is over 50.

B (16:33)

But how do you measure that?

A (16:34)

Well, through their actions. Like, when someone's interest level is 90%, they can't control what they say. They can't control what they do. That's when it's like, you absolutely know. You don't have to ask. 50 is when suddenly they're taking a long time to respond. They're busy on the weekends. So once they go below 50, that's when they break up with you. But it doesn't mean they're not interested because maybe they're at 49, so we just have to get them back over 50 to want to be with you.

B (17:01)

Okay, so let's say somebody out there listening, I. And I'm gonna be really honest, with all due respect, I still think it's a bad idea in general. I think if some. And it's funny because I have a couple of really good friends. Best friends. They're my neighbors. Two girls, and they were married. And one of them, a Few months ago, out of the blue, decided to move out. Like broke. The other ones are, she moved out, packed her bags, broke her heart just before the holidays and said goodbye. And the one that stayed behind asked me, you know, what should I. And I said, move on. Like start, go to the gym, take care of yourself. Like usually my approach is work on self improvement. That it always works for me. I focus on myself. Like somebody breaks my heart, I get hotter, richer, more successful. So I, I come back, I'm the Phoenix, like six months later, I come back even stronger than before. Of course I lick my wounds. I suffer like hell because I'm very emotional. But usually my approach is I get very introverted. I go on this major man diets, meaning like I don't date for a while. But I totally like turn the energy into myself and I become a much better version of myself. That's how I do it. So if somebody asked my opinion, like these two girls, I told my neighbor, like, dude, focus on yourself. Don't take her back. I mean, she moved out on you, but they made up and she moved back in. Now they're pissed at me because that was my advice. And I stand by my advice because like I said, if six months down the line, she does it again, I warned you, right? I think it's like reheating souffle like I said, or trying to, you know, glue up glass.

A (18:56)

Broken glass.

B (18:56)

Yeah. I don't know. But let's say somebody's listening and they want to try out your method. And they don't agree with me. They say, well, I want my ex back, period. I love him, I love her, whatever. She's the man of my life. So can you maybe explain a little more? Like you said, no contact. So somebody broke up with me yesterday. I'm heartbroken. It hurts like hell. Can you explain a little bit better? Like what should, what are the next few steps?

A (19:25)

Yeah, well, definitely working on yourself is a great thing to do. And the great thing is, is that if you level yourself up when your ex tries to come back, you may not even want them at that point because now you're out of their league. So it's like, why would I take you back?

B (19:40)

Exactly.

A (19:41)

So you always want to be working on yourself. Now if they broke up with you because of your attachment style, if you're too anxious, then you definitely have to work on that because you're not going to be able to do no contact. If you have an anxious attachment style, those are the people that are have the most difficult time Getting their ex back. And those are most of my clients, actually. If you have an avoidant attachment style, which it sounds like you do, then we have no problem.

B (20:04)

Which one?

A (20:04)

An avoidant attachment style.

B (20:06)

An avoidant, yes.

A (20:07)

There's three types of attachment styles. How people attach other people. It's not what you think.

B (20:12)

I get very attached.

A (20:13)

It's not about getting attached. It's about how you deal with rejection. And, like, if you pull back, because the fact that you said, oh, I'm just gonna work on myself, and that's either a secure or an avoid. An anxious attachment style would never be able to do that. They would be trying to contact their ex.

B (20:29)

Because I have made that mistake before you leave. Yeah, because I've had my heartbroken many. Hence the podcast. I started the podcast. I was married for a long time. Horrible marriage. Very abusive marriage for 14 years.

A (20:46)

Wow.

B (20:46)

So when I got out of the marriage and jumped in back into the dating game, I'm like, it's chaos. I don't know how to date. And I started telling my stories, and I grew this worldwide audience. Everybody's sharing their own stories. But I kept getting, you know, tangled up with bad man after bad man that, you know, abused me, cheated on me, lied to me, all that crap. And I. I did take a cheater back that cheated on me. All this. This stuff.

A (21:13)

Right.

B (21:13)

So, of course it's been. For me, the podcast has been a process of learning to the point now, three and a half, four years later, I know my value. I know how great and fantastic I am, like the prize that I am. But it was a process, right, to get here.

A (21:30)

Yes.

B (21:30)

But, yeah, like, I. I've made all. Every mistake you can dream of.

A (21:34)

Right.

B (21:34)

I have made. So now, yeah, if somebody breaks up with me, you know what to do. Okay. Arrivederche.

A (21:43)

Right?

B (21:44)

Arrivedercha. Now I'm like, okay, it's your loss. Right now I'm different. But of course, it wasn't always like that.

A (21:52)

Right. So you're either a secure attachment style or an avoidant. But anyway, so to answer your question, yes. So no contact. And most exes, 90%, are going to try to contact you. Doesn't mean they want you back there. If you leave them alone, they're gonna pop up.

B (22:10)

Yeah.

A (22:11)

You know, they just do not go away. You would think.

B (22:15)

But do you think it's because people want what they can't have?

A (22:20)

That's part of it. There's been called the lag period after you break up with someone. You know, when someone breaks up with you, they're not a hundred percent sure that they should break up with you. That's the thing. Like, when are you ever a. You might be 90%, but not 100. And so we work on that 10%, 20%. We work on their, maybe I shouldn't have broken up with them. And so they always pop back up. And what you do when they pop back up is going to determine whether you're going to get them back or not. And most people, they are inclined to respond because they think, well, I have to respond or my ex is not going to contact me again. I wish. In fact, if you don't respond to breadcrumbs, they will contact you again. If they're still interested. If they're 100% done, okay, there's nothing you can do. But if there's still some hope there, if there's still some interest, the fact that you're ignoring them until they say something significant is going to raise their interest level. Like I said, above 50. And they have to say something. They have to be humble. They can't have an attitude like, oh, you're not responding to me now. No attitude. I tell my clients, as long as they have an attitude, they're not interested in getting back together. They need to be humble and apologetic.

B (23:31)

Yeah, there's a big difference, right? But I read a while ago and I don't even remember. It was somebody, one of the relationship expert online, somebody that I follow the work, I don't remember who it was. And she wrote something that really stuck in my mind. She said if somebody like broke up with you or is not with you anymore for whatever reason, they basically put you back into the dating pole. They said, okay, go. They don't care if you're having sex with someone else. They don't care if you're kissing someone. They. They're giving in giving you up. Like they're. They're giving someone else the chance to be with you. So, I mean, do you really want a man? Give the. Get this guy back that. That gave you away to potentially another guy. Guys, I never thought I would say this, but this Black Friday, instead of buying more stuff I don't need, I decided to invest in my sex life instead. We all know Black Friday is about deals, but what would you rather do? Spend hundreds of dollars in stuff you don't need or 69 bucks on improving your sex life? Yes. @beducated.com Real Talk no one ever really teaches us how to be amazing in bed. We're just supposed to figure it out. Somehow, right? Well, that's exactly what I thought until I found educated. I started exploring their courses because I wanted to understand not just pleasure, but connection. And it completely changed how I see intimacy. I learned simple, real techniques that you more confident, more in tune with your partner and honestly more empowered in your own body. Beducated is a safe space for all. And that's my favorite part. No matter relationship status, sexual orientation or gender. So if you're ready to level up your love and sex life solo or with a partner, go to beducate me Cat 69. That's my code, Cat K A T69 to get 65 off the yearly pass. That's their biggest discount of the year and it's completely risk free, 14 day money back guarantee. So go to beducate me cat 69 and give yourself a gift that will last.

A (25:40)

So when it comes to matters of the heart, it's not logical. The heart has its reasons which reason knows not of. And so you're not going to argue with the heart. People who've been broken up with their brain scans are similar to people who are trying to get off of coke.

B (25:55)

Yeah.

A (25:55)

So if you're trying to tell someone to get off coke, you're not going to just say, hey, just stop doing coke. Oh, okay, I didn't think about, yeah, I'll just stop doing coke. Same with getting an ex back. Hey, stop trying to get your ex back. They're not going to stop. It's an addiction. They're like a crack addict. So I can only help them maneuver through the addiction.

B (26:14)

Do you ever see cases that you think like, okay, no, you're just obsessed. This is a bad idea. Your ex doesn't want it. Cut it out.

A (26:23)

So I'm a hired gun, you know, if they hire me, then I'm going to help them. Unless there's been abuse. If they tell me there's physical abuse, then I go, no, I'm not going to help you. However, I will help them. But I will also try to plant the seeds that listen, maybe this guy or this girl isn't as great as you think they are, but they don't want to hear that. All I can do is plant a seed, right?

B (26:47)

What if the person they want back found someone else?

A (26:51)

Usually if they get into something relatively after a short time after they broke up with you, it's a rebound. And most rebounds don't work because they're trying to use that person to get over you. They haven't processed their feelings. So I tell my clients, don't worry about rebounds.

B (27:08)

So you think that eventually it's just gonna expire and they're gonna say, oh, I really miss you. And that's how they come back.

A (27:15)

Well, I mean, they're either going to get married or they're going to break up. The chances are they're going to break.

B (27:18)

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A (32:20)

If you leave them alone and if you work on yourself and you level up.

B (32:24)

Okay, so let's go back to the leaving alone. Can you talk us through the process of your silence? How does the silence.

A (32:32)

Okay, so I have a panic button here because. So there's a counter. It shows you how many days you've been in no contact. This is the counter. You set the time and the day of the breakup and it starts counting. And a woman, actually, she wrote in and she said the app saved her life. And I said what? How? And she said she was in an abusive relationship. She was Trauma bonded. She was unable to leave. She kept going back. And then she got the app. She used the timer, and it gave her strength. Every day. She saw it going up, up, up, and she didn't go back.

B (33:09)

Okay.

A (33:09)

Isn't that crazy?

B (33:10)

So she. Okay, so wait, so somebody, bro. She. Whoever she was with, broke up with her?

A (33:20)

Well, I think in this case he was abusive. She was trying to leave.

B (33:23)

Oh, okay.

A (33:24)

Kept trying to leave. If she kept going back because she was trauma bonded.

B (33:28)

So in this case, she didn't want to go back with him.

A (33:31)

No. But she kept going back.

B (33:32)

Huh. So the app helped her be strong enough to not go back.

A (33:36)

Yes.

B (33:37)

Okay, I like this one on yes.

A (33:38)

And then also the panic button. So what is the panic? Okay, so when you press the panic button, you hear my voice giving you a very good reason why you should not contact your ex. So I'll press the panic button now and let's see what it says. Okay. If you break no contact, you may temporarily relieve your anxiety, but it's only going to be short term relief if your ex doesn't want to get back together. So it's a different statement every time they press the button.

B (34:09)

Oh, okay.

A (34:09)

Just to give them, you know, it's like, oh, I want to contact my ex. Oh, let me hit the panic button. All right, I won't contact my ex.

B (34:15)

Okay, and then what?

A (34:16)

So you go so many days, you focus on yourself. If you're going to post on social media, look happy, upbeat, no cryptic posts about exes. Don't try to send a silent message. Right. You want to give them zero attention whatsoever. Take the focus off of them, focus on you.

B (34:35)

Yeah. Move on with your life, basically. Right, Right.

A (34:39)

And then I found that the golden period, as I'll call it, of 45 to 60 days after the point of last contact. So not necessarily after the breakup, because if you still stayed in touch a week or two, then you look at the point of last contact, count 45 to 60 days, and there's a very good chance that's when you'll hear from your ex.

B (35:01)

Okay.

A (35:02)

I've found with my clients, 45 to 60 days. Yes. So at least we have a time period. Because everyone's always wondering, when are they going to hear from their ex? Because everyone thinks they're going to get their ex back next week, within a couple of weeks. And it generally takes at least 45 to 60 days to at least hear from your ex. And then, even then, it's not a process of you just have a phone conversation. Okay, now we're back together. Just like they didn't decide usually in one day to break up with you, they're not going to decide in one day to get back with you. It's a whole process. It always takes months. With all my clients, it takes months. Not because I'm a bad coach, but that's just how long it takes.

B (35:36)

Right.

A (35:36)

And two guys, it took them two years.

B (35:39)

Oh my God.

A (35:40)

They did not want to give up.

B (35:42)

And it worked.

A (35:43)

And they finally got them back.

B (35:45)

But. Got them back. And yes.

A (35:48)

One is getting married this year and the other one, I think they got married also.

B (35:53)

I am really surprised. I, because, I don't know, I, like I said, I, I just have this image that it's like I, I, it's.

A (36:03)

Not always that bad. Sometimes like the client that got his ex back after two years, he was just showing too much jealousy and insecurity, you know? And as women, we want a strong guy.

B (36:13)

Yeah.

A (36:13)

Not someone who's anxious. And so it was a turn off. And so she broke up with him. So he spent, I mean, he wasn't trying the whole two years, obviously, to get her back. Obviously he was in no contact. And they would run into each other once in a while and then finally they're back together.

B (36:28)

I'm sure it's possible because relationships are so singular. Right. Each case is a case, each situation is a situation. In general, like I said, for me, if somebody leaves me, yeah, I don't want that. I think for whatever reason, I don't want to revisit that. I don't want to go through that again. I would always have some kind of trust issue. And then I start, and it's funny because my, the way my mind works, I start looking at that person like, oh, you know what? He's so right. Like we weren't meant for each other. And he did that, that thing that I didn't like and that thing that I start thinking that I deserve somebody better in that area or better in there. I just think it's just so complicated to, to try to regroup and make it better. Is it possible? Yeah, it's possible. But in general it just sounds like, ah, I don't know.

A (37:18)

I know it's, it's a lot of work.

B (37:20)

It sounds like a lot of work. And one of, of your podcast episodes and I don't know, I thought it was a little harsh. That's why.

A (37:30)

Well, listen, I'm known for tough cookie, tough love. Listen, I say that getting an X pack is like, you're in a way war. People don't want to believe that.

B (37:38)

But, but that's the thing. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be a war.

A (37:41)

Well, it is.

B (37:42)

I don't want to be in like. And, and that's another thing. Like, I don't want to fight for anybody to love me. I don't want to. I certainly not gonna beg anybody to love me. I think love should be organic. It should be natural. People, like, if two people want to be together, they should be together. It should be like a two way street. If I have to go and make all this effort, I'm like, okay, I'm out, you know?

A (38:05)

I know, but that's just the nature of love and human emotions, they're messy.

B (38:09)

So this episode that I want to ask you about.

A (38:11)

Okay.

B (38:11)

And I think it's the title, if I'm not wrong, because I'm telling you, last night I spent many hours in bed with my dogs listening to your episode. I love their short and sweet. But you wrote, if you don't get your ex back, it's your fault.

A (38:30)

Well, I, I should mention, if you know about no contact and you don't get your. And there's a chance to get your ex back and you don't. It's your fault. But I couldn't fit all that into the title.

B (38:41)

Okay.

A (38:42)

That's an awful long title.

B (38:44)

So you think the secret is the no contact.

A (38:47)

It's absolutely the secret.

B (38:50)

So everybody listening? If somebody. So let's rewind because I know we're talking really fast and furious because this is. This topic really piqued my curiosity.

A (39:01)

Everyone's curiosity, because everyone's been broken up with.

B (39:04)

Yeah.

A (39:04)

It's been heartbroken.

B (39:06)

Yes. And like I said, I. I admit I changed because I've had my heart broken so many times and I tell stories that people cringe. I've had people cheat on me on Valentine's Day. My boyfriend cheat on me on my birthday. I've had like the craziest, most horrible. This dude broke up with me, by the way. I think, think I'm gonna make a parenthesis and you tell me if you agree, if you're gonna. Everybody has the right to break up with anyone.

A (39:31)

Sure.

B (39:31)

Because they're adults.

A (39:32)

Okay.

B (39:32)

But do it in a civilized. Because I believe in karma and I treat everybody the way I like being treated. I've. I've broken up relationships, but look at the person's eyes. Be respectful, be kind. Breaking up over the phone, I mean, come on. That is so tacky. Right? That is so disrespectful. Respectful. Do you agree?

A (39:54)

It depends how long you've been dating.

B (39:55)

I. I don't think it depends. It was a few months, but honestly, we were all over each other's lives. He knew all my friends, my clients. We were literally, like, sleeping in each other's homes, travel together. He knew my neighbor. Yeah. We were, like, very intense. I think if you're man enough to be, you know, that intense.

A (40:17)

Yes.

B (40:18)

Sit down, have a cup of coffee. You know, like. But breaking up, like, you know, I changed my mind like a child.

A (40:23)

Yeah.

B (40:24)

I told Think for all. I have a big, massive male audience out there, and I know dating apps are transforming big, mature men into, like, teenagers again. Be a man. Look at. At your woman's eyes and say, you know, for whatever reason, I change my mind, and you part ways as friends. But breaking up over the phone, I just think it's really cheesy.

A (40:46)

Yeah. They don't have the emotional maturity. And what about breaking up over text, which is even worse?

B (40:50)

Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly. Don't do it. Like, be men up.

A (40:54)

I tell my clients, if someone breaks up with you over text, don't even respond.

B (40:59)

I love that.

A (41:01)

Don't even. Don't even dignify the text with a response.

B (41:05)

I love that.

A (41:05)

And then they're going to text you again. It's like, did you get my message?

B (41:09)

I know. I don't think I would if somebody broke up with me over text. I agree with you. I don't even think I would. I would dignify.

A (41:16)

Yeah. Was to respond.

B (41:17)

Yeah, that's ridiculous. I think especially men be gentlemen. If you're dating someone, talk to them, like, the same way that you talk to them when you want to take them on a date, when you ask them to be your girlfriend, when you ask them to be exclusive. You know, treat women with the same kindness that you want your daughters to be treated your sisters, your mom. Right. That's what I always say. So to me, that was like, like. And that's what I'm saying, like, months later, if that person is still talking to me or even decided, like, oops, I made a mistake, you know, I miss out on, obviously, one of the hottest, most fabulous girls on the planet. I'm like, yeah, dude, you did. But that's your loss. I don't want you anymore. Thank you for making room for the right one to come along.

A (42:07)

And why did that guy break up with you after two months?

B (42:10)

So, no, it was more than two months. It was four months. I think almost five, because it I, I think I told that story on the podcast before. It was very funny. He was married for 25 years. Very conservative marriage, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we met on Bumble. And when we met, he told me that he was very. And he looked me in the eyes like, you know, very firm, like, I'm ready for a relationship. I know what I want. And this is what drew me to. Because I had my doubts about it. About. About dating someone who was getting out of a marriage.

A (42:42)

Yes.

B (42:43)

So all the red flags were down. But he was so, like, looked me and said, I'm ready and that's it. And he was so convincing and, and reassuring and told me over and over again, oh, you're the girl from in. And we had so many things in common. We clicked on so many boxes. And he kept reassuring me. But then months into it, he told me I found out he was still on Bumble. And then his excuse was, oh, I don't want to date any one of these girls. It's just massaging my ego.

A (43:17)

And why do you need your ego massage now?

B (43:19)

After. Now I laugh about it. He said, oh, it's because after being married for so long, just knowing that all these girls are there that day, I should have ran out. I should have left.

A (43:32)

Yeah. And I. You know, when you said you had a short relationship and he broke up with you over the phone, I had a feeling it was because he wasn't ready. And I've heard this story before. When someone has just gotten out of a long term relationship or a marriage, I don't care how much they argue that I'm ready. I'm ready. No, you're not.

B (43:48)

Exactly.

A (43:49)

Leave them alone for at least a year.

B (43:52)

No, totally.

A (43:53)

You're asking for trouble otherwise.

B (43:54)

No, I completely agree with you. But he, since he kept saying to.

A (43:57)

Me, I don't care what he said, I agree.

B (44:00)

Now I know. But after that, he got out of Bumble. He reassured me, you know, oh, you're the girl for me, I want to be with you, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So then one beautiful day, he said, I changed my mind. Okay, whatever. Okay, bye. Next. And yeah, I broke my heart. I was super shocked because we were very intense and he was very like all over my life, whatever. And I, I don't hold like, you know, any hard feelings. I. And again, like I said, once I picked up the pieces and I started thinking about it, I agree with you. We many times ignore the red flags and men do that too. But women, we have a tendency of ignoring red flags, right?

A (44:40)

We're too nice. Right. We want to give people the benefit of a doubt.

B (44:44)

Yeah. And, and as much as, yeah. We, we had had so many things in common. Like the minute I noticed the dude was, oh, let me see what else is out there. I should have said, go for it. And I wanted to. I should have removed myself from that situation, but I kept believing the. And I got burned.

A (45:03)

Right. Or you just say, okay, you're on, bumble, no problem, I'll be back on and we'll just date other people at the same time. We'll see how it goes.

B (45:09)

Yeah, but.

A (45:10)

And he probably wouldn't have liked that. Right.

B (45:11)

But that's the thing. I, I just have a personality at this point in my life. I don't play games. I don't want to play games. You know, I don't, I don't want to waste my time.

A (45:21)

Yeah.

B (45:21)

You know, I, I'm, I'm at a point in my life, I want to have a relationship and I'm really happy by myself. I'm super fulfilled by myself. But I certainly, I'm thankful that he made that mistake because it was better sooner than later. Right. But I think many times it's our fault because like you said, if a guy tells you he's still married, getting out of a marriage, like, don't get tangled up with a guy like that.

A (45:47)

No matter what he says.

B (45:49)

No matter what.

A (45:49)

There are never any exceptions to this rule. I once met this guy. He had just gotten out of a seven year relationship. It had only been three months. He was amazing. I'm like, nope, no, it's just, it's too soon. Absolutely.

B (46:01)

Because most guys, they will want. And, and this phrase is very telling. Like if a guy tells you they want to feed their ego. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

A (46:11)

Right.

B (46:12)

Like, because these dating apps, yeah. They guys love playing this game. Like ordering girls like doordash, like, oh, oh my God, look at all these blondes. They want to date me. I am so hot. And I mean these dudes are like in their 50s or so they say. Oh, so whatever, 50s, whatever. But it's making them feel like teenagers again.

A (46:32)

Right. And act like teenagers.

B (46:33)

Teenagers and act like teenagers.

A (46:36)

Right.

B (46:36)

But back to the getting the ex back. So I don't want this X back. Thank you very much. I don't want any, any of my exes back. But the. For the people that do want the X back, let's finish this because I still want to ask you, because you also tell people like how to forget the ex before you run out of time. So you use the Silenzio app and you go through this process of like, ignoring them. So that's the text tactic. Somebody listening, you have your heart broken. Resist all the urge. Do not contact under any circumstance unless.

A (47:11)

You cheated or took your ex for granted. And by take them for granted, and usually men are the ones who are taking the their girlfriends for granted. Usually women aren't taking their guys for granted. That means that your ex felt like they were not a priority, like they weren't important to you. That's my definition of taking for granted. So if you did either of those two things, it is up to you to get them back. Obviously. Because if you cheated on someone, you can't expect them to come looking for you. But I always say wait at least a month because they need to calm down from the shock and then start attempting. But just understand, it's going to take a long time if you cheated or took them for granted. Otherwise, if you didn't do those two things. Yes, you stay in no contact until your ex says something significant, no matter how long that takes. Because if they're not ready to say something significant, then they're probably not ready to get back together. So all you're doing by responding is just showing them that you're still interested. And so you appease their temporary anxiety and that lengthens the time that it will take to get your ex back. So that's why it's important to be quiet and not say anything. You raise their anxiety and you raise their interest.

B (48:17)

What is something significant? Significant.

A (48:20)

Hey, can we talk? And then you say, about what? And then they go about us. And you go, well, what about us? So you don't just immediately, oh, sure, let's talk. Right. You got to feel them out. They have to show that maybe they made a mistake. They're starting to doubt. You know, you'll know. You'll know.

B (48:39)

You feel it.

A (48:40)

Yeah. And so then when you talk, then you ask the six questions. So you got to kind of have them a little note to ask in your phone to ask the six questions. Not all at once, just in the course of the conversation. Find out why they want you back. And then like I said, they're on probation for 30 days to make sure that they are going to stick to what they said. And they really.

B (49:03)

Probation for how long?

A (49:04)

At least 30 days.

B (49:06)

Do you think that's enough?

A (49:07)

Probably not, but that's why I said at least 30 days. Depends on the breakup, too.

B (49:14)

Now, if somebody cheated, do you think it's possible? I think Cheating. Oh, my God, That's. To me, that's even worse, because how do you trust a cheater? Again.

A (49:25)

Again, I understand. Again. What was the reason for the breakup? What was the circumstance? And what do you call cheating? Some people call cheating if you just texted another girl.

B (49:33)

Oh, come on. Really?

A (49:34)

Yeah. No, that's cheating. So, you know, unless I think there was actual physical contact, it's not really cheat. It may have been emotional cheating. So there's physical and emotional. Probably emotional is worse because it's like you had an intimate conversation with this person, but there was no sex. That's like. That's even worse.

B (49:53)

Yeah, it can be. It can be. But do you think that's repairable?

A (49:58)

If both people want to repair it, you're gonna have to build the trust.

B (50:02)

That's super tough.

A (50:03)

Right. And sometimes you have to go to therapy to figure out why you guys got to that place in the first place.

B (50:08)

Yeah. I would always, always wonder. Would you? If they're gonna cheat again.

A (50:17)

I don't know. I'm pretty intuitive, so. First of all, it would depend if I even took them back. Because I'm like you, right? For myself, Personally, for myself. It's like, if you break up with me, good luck trying to get me back.

B (50:31)

Aha. I like that.

A (50:33)

Right?

B (50:34)

See? Yes.

A (50:35)

Yeah. But if I do give you a second chance, then it's because I do trust you. However, at the first sign of a red flag, then I'm out of there for good.

B (50:48)

Yeah, no, same. And I tell you guys, the. The one boyfriend that I gave and I told that story before, and people are shocked. I had. It was the first boyfriend I had after my. My horrible marriage. He cheated on me on Valentine's Day. Super creepy story. With his ex girlfriend. Yeah. He was in bed with her the whole day.

A (51:05)

Oh, my God.

B (51:06)

Anyway, and then I forgave him, gave him a chance, dated him an extra whole year. Then he cheated on me on my birthday. I caught him. Yeah. Having dinner on my birthday with someone else. I literally saw it with my own eyes at the restaurant.

A (51:24)

What did you do?

B (51:25)

Yes. Oh, big scandal. Through a glass at his face with whiskey, the flowers, the rose. Got kicked out of the huge scandal. And then, you know, the whole story is on the podcast. He caught Covid. That was just March 2020. He caught Covid from the girl he was cheating with. Ended up in the hospital. This is a true story, people. I'm not making this up. Ended up in the hospital. Apologize to me like, oh, my God, you're the best thing that Happened in my life, blah, blah, Please forgive me. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm gonna make it. And I, at that point, I was like, just get out of the hospital. Right. I don't want you to die. True story. He died. Yeah, he died. No, I'm serious. We're laughing like, no, but serious. He died. Apologized to me from the hospital. Yeah, but so I'm like, that was the worst trauma right. In my life, giving somebody, like, a second chance. Because, yeah, he, He. He did it all over again. So, like, to me, I. In my mind, I think like a cheater. They just have this behavior that they think it's okay to cheat, and they're always gonna cheat.

A (52:33)

It depends on their age. Usually. Obviously, the younger you are, you, the more you're likely to cheat. But as you get older, hopefully you become more mature. You realize, okay, then he's cheating in his 50s. Forget it. Yeah, there's no hope.

B (52:46)

I don't want to say too many bad things about him. Because he died when he was a pig. Yes.

A (52:50)

Yeah.

B (52:52)

Now, you also say, like, that you help people forget exes. So can you talk a little bit about that? If somebody doesn't want their ex back, if they want to forget the ex?

A (53:02)

Yeah, so.

B (53:04)

Because that can be really tough, too.

A (53:06)

Absolutely. So there's something called fab, which is faded effect bias. And that means that as time goes by, if you've been in a bad relationship, you tend to forget the bad and you focus on the good.

B (53:17)

Yeah.

A (53:18)

And that's also one way of getting your ex to contact you, because they'll slowly forget the bad things. So you want to use that in reverse. So instead of thinking of the good, because that's why you want them back. You want to think of the bad. And if. Make a list if you have to, because there's no way the relationship was perfect. Otherwise they wouldn't have been a breakup. So, you know, he chewed too loudly when he ate, or, you know he did. You know, he did this. He didn't work out, he had a dad. Bod. Whatever.

B (53:47)

I love that. I love that idea. Yes. Physically, make a list of all the things you don't like about them.

A (53:56)

Right.

B (53:56)

And read it every day if you have to.

A (53:58)

Yeah. It's like your morning prayer. Every morning. Read that list. And again, focus on yourself. Go on a trip if you have to. When you change your environment, you change your thoughts. Especially if you go on a trip, you're focused just on what you're going to do on that trip. So That's a great way to kick start the getting over someone.

B (54:17)

I love that idea. And I know when people are going through heartbreak and we're laughing and making fun of it, but it can, it's very painful.

A (54:25)

Absolutely.

B (54:25)

It's. It hurts like hell.

A (54:28)

It's physical pain.

B (54:29)

It's physical pain. Yeah. And it's mental pain.

A (54:31)

It's.

B (54:32)

It's anguish. A lot of people get depressed. Of course I've been there. I don't know if you've been there.

A (54:36)

Yeah, of course I have.

B (54:37)

Yeah. Most of us humans have been there.

A (54:39)

Yes.

B (54:39)

But I will tell you guys from experience that if you take the first steps, right. And you really make an effort and focus on yourself, it's such a wonderful exercise and it works wonders. Like the, the hard part is the first step. Right. But if you really switch that energy into focusing on yourself and you, you talk a lot about that on your podcast. Like, like you say that it's. I think it's one of the things that you recommend, like to, to bring your ex back if you start focusing a lot on yourself.

A (55:13)

Yeah. I actually have a meditation to bring, take your energy back from your ex. Because right now all your focus is on your ex and you're actually sending them energy, which they feel. And when you cut that energy off, they actually feel when you've cut it off. And that's when people often hear from their exes. So I have that meditation on the podcast and on my YouTube to take your energy back and you're so. Yeah, you definitely want to do that when you're trying to get over them. And don't jump into the dating pool right away because if you're not over your ex, you're going to go out on a date and you're going to feel miserable. You're going to go home and want to call your ex.

B (55:49)

Oh, really? You think so?

A (55:50)

Oh, that's. Yeah, that happens all a lot.

B (55:53)

Interesting. Because I would have thought that maybe it's something fun to distract your mind, not the attention of other people.

A (56:00)

Not if you're not over your ex, because you're going to become. You're going to be on the date comparing them.

B (56:03)

Really?

A (56:04)

Yo. Yes.

B (56:06)

I don't know. Because for me, to be honest, it has worked in the past. Like I put myself out there just for fun and the attention of other guys makes me feel great. Like, ah, all these guys want to date even if I don't want to date them.

A (56:20)

Yeah.

B (56:21)

You know, just for fun, like to. Instead of sitting home, like, whatever, watching tv and crying. It makes me feel good.

A (56:27)

No, it depends where in the grieving process you are. So it sounds. If it had been just out of the breakup, I don't think you would have felt that way. And also depends on your attachment style too, which we talked about earlier.

B (56:39)

Yeah, amazing. So how can people find you and. And the app? And you guys should definitely check out her podcast because they're short and sweet. I love them.

A (56:50)

I like to get to the point. No, no beating around the bush.

B (56:52)

I love them. That's our style here, as you notice. And I love your YouTube videos. So can you tell everyone here on Cannabulous how they can find you?

A (57:00)

Yes, you can find the link to everything on my website, theartoflove.net the art of Love.

B (57:07)

I love that.

A (57:08)

Thank you.

B (57:09)

And before you guys decide, if you, I mean no judgment, if you want your access back, good luck. It's a war out there. But before you decide if you want your access back or not, think about working on self improvement and self love. I think that's the, my message out of all of this here today.

A (57:28)

Yeah. And self worth.

B (57:29)

Self worth. I love that. Lucia, thank you so much. Was a huge pleasure having you. You're amazing.

A (57:35)

Thank you so much. I had so much fun.

B (57:36)

Time. Time went by so fast.

A (57:38)

I knew it. I knew it would.

B (57:40)

First love, self love, first and foremost. You're. You're gorgeous. You're fabulous. Don't forget to go look at the full video episode of this cat on the loose on YouTube and of course, the audio episode on all platforms where you enjoy your podcast. Thank you so much, Lucia. The Art of Love. I love the name. Thank you.

A (57:57)

Thank you.

B (57:57)

Be safe out there. Don't, don't, don't care too much about your ex. They don't deserve it. Bye. See you soon. Bye.

A (58:05)

Thank you.

B (58:07)

Big shout out to the Burat Brata House. One of my favorite casual dining places in the heart of West Hollywood. They make authentic, delicious, fresh Italian food, sandwiches, pasta, salads with the delicious, delicious, fresh burrata on Top on 161 South Crescent Heights. So if you're looking for a place that you can have a quick bite for lunch, dinner, takeout for your family, this is it. And I love, of course, supporting local businesses. So if you guys are in the Los Angeles area, West Hollywood, go check out the Burata house. If you guys want to see pictures, buratahouse.com on Instagram. Burata House. I love, love, love their food so much. Everything is really, really yummy. Not only I'm a huge supporter of women supporting women, but I have so many amazing guy friends in my industry. So I want to give two big shout outs to people that also do podcasts and radio stations. It's such a tough business. So big, big shout outs to other podcasts that I love very, very, very much. And I always say there is room for everybody. I think we need to see stop looking at each other as competition, competition, competition and more. Looking at each other as co workers, looking at each other as collaborators. Because like I said, if we're authentic, we should all do our thing. And there is space for everybody. So if you guys love sports, I highly recommend check out Aira on Sports, one of the top sports podcasts in the nation By Ira Kaufman Ira is a walking encyclopedia of sports. He follows sports no matter what it is. Football, volleyball, tennis, golf, you name it. He's there up and down the country, everywhere. Amazing guest interviews. He drops new episodes every Mondays. He is incredible. He's in all the games. He always has exclusive photos, exclusive videos on Instagram, on Twitter. Ira on Sports, I highly recommend you guys check it out. I love it. And if you're a huge fan of country music, I love it. Check out Kick Ass Country Radio. You can listen everywhere you go. You can get all the links through their Instagram Kick Ass country music so you can get your country vibe on the go. Big shout out to them. They are my friends out of Texas and I love them. Kick Ass. Many, many kisses for you gu.