Episode Overview

Podcast: Kat on the Loose
Host: Kat Zammuto
Episode: LEGENDS LIVE FOREVER with Mark Roesler CEO CMG Worldwide
Date: February 5, 2025

In this fascinating episode, Kat Zammuto sits down with Mark Roesler, CEO and founder of CMG Worldwide—the leading authority on celebrity intellectual property rights, especially for deceased icons. Broadcasting from Roesler’s memorabilia-filled Beverly Hills office, the conversation dives into the evolution of protecting a celebrity’s name, image, and legacy, how posthumous fame is managed, the legal complexities of intellectual property, and intriguing behind-the-scenes stories from dealing with some of the most famous personalities in history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of Celebrity Intellectual Property Rights

• Mark’s Pioneering Idea:

  • Mark shares how, in the early 1980s, there was little to no legal protection for the likeness and rights of deceased celebrities.
  • He recognized this gap and worked to establish what is now the “right of publicity” for celebrities and their estates.
  • Mark (07:19): “I was at the forefront of that, and I was in the right place at the right time.”

• First Clients & Early Days:

  • Mark’s journey began with representing the Elvis Presley estate and quickly expanded to James Dean, Babe Ruth, and Buddy Holly.
  • He explains how challenging it was to build legal frameworks in an era without the Internet.

2. Understanding “Right of Publicity” and Its Legal Complexities

• What It Means:

  • The right of publicity enables control over the commercial use of one's name, image, and likeness—even after death in many cases.
  • Mark (11:26): “You and I both have a right of publicity which allows us to protect our name, our likeness, our signature, our voice.”

• How Long Does It Last?

  • Duration varies greatly by jurisdiction:
    • Indiana: up to 100 years after death.
    • Tennessee: 10 years plus renewal with use.
    • California: 70 years.
    • Some states/countries: No recognition at all.
  • Mark (13:20): “It depends on the state and it depends on the country... The majority of the states here in California… are set at 70 years.”

• Difference from Copyright & Trademarks:

  • Copyrights & trademarks are federally governed and thus more uniform.
  • The right of publicity is state-based, presenting a patchwork of laws and complications for multinational personalities.

3. Money, Memorabilia & Posthumous Earnings

• Who Benefits?

  • Only rights-holders (often families or designated foundations) can profit from new uses of a celebrity’s image or name.
  • Mark (19:14): “You can’t [use a celebrity’s face/name on merch]… The intellectual property must go through the rights holder.”

• Memorabilia vs Image Use:

  • Anyone can own or sell memorabilia (like a celebrity’s shoes or autographed items), but commercializing their image requires legal permission.

• Misconceptions About Profits After Death:

  • While some celebrities see surges in revenue posthumously, generally “a celebrity does lose about 10% of their intellectual property, right. Value after their death.” (Mark, 16:19)
  • New technologies and AI are starting to change this trend.

4. Case Studies: Icons Managed by CMG Worldwide

• Biggest-Earning Legends:

  • At their peak:
    • Michael Jackson was the highest-earning deceased celebrity soon after his death.
    • Albert Einstein currently brings in significant international licensing revenue.
    • Elizabeth Taylor’s estate benefited from massive jewelry auctions posthumously.
    • Mark (28:03): “Our biggest client and the most famous person… is Albert Einstein.”

• Rights-Holders—Who Gets the Money:

  • Albert Einstein’s rights go to Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
  • Michael Jackson’s and Marilyn Monroe’s rights have changed hands via estate sales and transactions.

• Estate Drama:

  • Families often fight over assets after a celebrity’s death, sometimes with dozens of beneficiaries involved.

5. Estate Planning & Challenges

• Living Celebrities Planning Ahead:

  • Mark assists living celebrities with estate planning, helping minimize eventual estate taxes that can consume up to 50% of IP value.
  • Celebrities sometimes sell their name/image rights before death for estate or tax reasons.

• Example:

  • Michael Jackson's estate planning, Elvis Presley family disputes, and other classic "Hollywood family drama" stories highlighted.

6. The Rise of AI, Social Media & Digital Personae

• New Legal Dilemmas:
  • Social media makes enforcement harder, as people casually misuse celebrity images/names.
  • AI and digital technologies (“digital humans”) can re-create personalities—CMG Worldwide is developing authoritative, legal, high-fidelity recreations.
  • Mark (38:25): “People can’t recreate these people… What AI lets you do is research and instantly accumulate vast history… But is it going to allow people to come up and create Albert Einstein? People try… but it’s hard.”

7. Memorable Stories, Client Relationships & Legacy

• Personal Favorites:

  • Mark’s favorite clients include Bettie Page, Albert Einstein, and Maya Angelou.
  • Heartfelt stories about working with Hugh Hefner and the Playboy legacy, as well as managing the aftermath of Princess Diana’s passing.
    • Mark (35:08): “I spent a lot of time with Bettie Page… one of my favorite clients.”

• Princess Diana:

  • After her death, Mark was called to the UK to assist in securing her legacy and managing image rights.

• Legal Expertise:

  • CMG employs around 20 lawyers globally to navigate ever-evolving laws and disputes.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vision & Motivation:

  • Mark: “One of the most invaluable lessons that you learn from your celebrity clients is that they follow their dreams and by doing so, lived their lives to the fullest.” (42:58)

• On Family Estate Drama:

  • Mark: “It’s almost uncommon for there not to be a fight over the money and the intellectual property. We have celebrity estates that have as many as… 64 beneficiaries.” (34:22)

• On AI & the Future:

  • Mark: “We are at the forefront of digital human technology… it kind of allows personalities like Albert Einstein to almost come to life.” (37:42)

• On the value of memorabilia:

  • Mark: “Some of it’s priceless and irreplaceable… I’d say tens of millions of dollars, but we like to be as discreet as we can.” (41:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:55 – Introduction of Mark Roesler, overview of CMG Worldwide
• 05:00 – Tour of the Beverly Hills memorabilia-packed office
• 06:52 – O.J. Simpson trial and celebrity asset valuation
• 07:19 – Genesis of right of publicity law
• 11:26 – Explanation of “right of publicity”
• 13:20 – How long posthumous rights last in different states
• 15:45 – Copyright, trademark, and right of publicity differences
• 16:19 – Who profits from celebrity images and memorabilia
• 19:14 – Legal clarifications on commercial use of celebrity images
• 28:03 – Who are the top-earning posthumous celebrities & their estates
• 33:45 – Estate planning and complexity for living celebrities
• 34:22 – Family disputes and “Hollywood drama” after celebrities pass
• 35:08 – Mark’s favorite celebrity stories
• 37:42 – The legal, technical, and ethical challenges of AI/VR
• 39:46 – Princess Diana case study
• 41:15 – CMG’s legal team and the value of historic memorabilia
• 42:58 – Mark’s inspirational closing thoughts

Tone & Language

• The conversation is engaging, knowledgeable, and conversational—Mark is detail-oriented yet approachable, while Kat remains enthusiastic and curious throughout.
• Balance of serious legal insight, inspiring storytelling, and lighthearted moments.

Final Thoughts

Mark Roesler’s pioneering vision and legal work have fundamentally shaped how legacies of legendary celebrities are protected, managed, and monetized. The episode offers rare insight into the tangled worlds of celebrity estates, the evolving threats and opportunities posed by AI, and the enduring power of fame beyond the grave. An essential listen for anyone fascinated by celebrity culture, entertainment law, or the intersection of legacy and commerce.

For more:

• Watch the video episode on YouTube (Kat on the Loose Show) for a visual tour of the memorabilia.
• Read Mark’s book, Brands That Never Die, for deeper stories and lessons.