LOVING AND LOSING AN ALCOHOLIC

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kat on the Loose – “LOVING AND LOSING AN ALCOHOLIC”

Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Bailey
Date: March 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This emotional, unfiltered episode of “Kat on the Loose” dives deep into the realities of loving someone with alcoholism and the aftermath of losing them. Host Kat Zammuto and guest Bailey open up about their personal stories: both lost partners—Kat her husband, Bailey her fiancé—to complications from alcoholism. Their raw, unscripted conversation aims to break the stigma, empower others, and provide practical takeaways for listeners navigating similar relationships or recovering from loss.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meeting and Falling in Love with an Alcoholic

• Kat and Bailey discover shared experiences: both fell in love in their 20s, both men hid or minimized their drinking at first.
• Both discuss how normalized drinking is in society, making early warning signs easy to miss.
• Quote:
  • “I thought actually drinking was a normal hobby.” – Kat [05:14]
  • “That’s part of the problem with society nowadays is how normalized drinking is.” – Bailey [05:57]

2. Deception, Denial, and Enabling

• Bailey recalls discovering her fiancé’s secret drinking:
  • Found missing vodka, confronted him, realized the deception went deeper.
  • She discusses the balance between anger over betrayal and empathy for his struggle.
• Kat and Bailey both acknowledge enabling destructive behavior due to love, delusion, or guilt.
• Quote:
  • “You enable it…they are what they are. Right?” – Kat [27:38]
  • “You learn how to lie to yourself to make it okay to stay.” – Bailey [27:56]
  • “Part of me was delusional…trying to save him.” – Bailey [16:43]

3. Progression and Severity of Alcoholism

• Both women detail how alcoholism is a progressive, often hidden disease.
• Late-stage alcoholism can require hospitalization; withdrawal can be fatal.
• Bodily damage extends far beyond the liver—affecting the stomach, brain, and more.
• Quote:
  • “I never realized how severe the effects of alcoholism are.” – Bailey [14:32]
  • “If you stop drinking, all of a sudden you can have a heart attack and die.” – Kat [15:14]

4. Stigma, Self-Blame, and Grief

• Both grappled with guilt, thinking their love might “save” their partners.
• Bailey describes never even considering leaving, while Kat experienced emotional blackmail and stayed for years out of guilt and love.
• The pain of loss is immense and life-altering; both women felt part of themselves died too.
• Quote:
  • “I felt powerless...like I was a failure.” – Kat [30:04]
  • “Part of yourself dies too…that was just very super loving.” – Bailey [30:04]

5. Lessons Learned & Setting Boundaries

• Both emphasize the importance of non-negotiables in future relationships (e.g., not dating heavy drinkers).
• Recovery requires recognizing you can’t save someone who doesn’t want to save themselves.
• Support groups (AA, Al-Anon) are recommended for anyone in a similar situation.
• Quote:
  • “I will never try to save someone from it again either.” – Bailey [47:08]
  • “If you are dating the stage…the heavy drinker…this is your red flag.” – Kat [14:58]
  • “Nobody’s going to stop drinking because they love you. They’re only going to stop drinking if they love themselves.” – Kat [49:25]

6. Moving On: Self-Love and Future Relationships

• Both reflect on how enduring this trauma made them stronger, more self-aware women.
• Kat encourages Bailey (and listeners) not to close their hearts to future love but to love “smarter.”
• The discussion shifts to gender roles and standards in modern dating, with advice on self-worth and not settling.
• Quote:
  • “Once you go through that, you almost become invincible.” – Bailey [29:32]
  • “Self love is self preservation.” – Kat [20:07]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Love at First Sight:

  • “The first time I ever saw him…I could tell you exactly which tile I was standing on on the floor.” – Bailey [07:21]

• The Reality of Late-Stage Alcoholism:

  • “The doctor told us…no shampoo with alcohol in it, no body wash with alcohol in it…his body was that desperate.” – Bailey [14:32]

• The Futility of Trying to ‘Save’:

  • “I always thought I could save him. I always thought, ‘he loves me, he’s gonna stop.’” – Kat [17:42]

• Advice for Listeners:

  • “Put on your non-negotiable list and don’t get tangled up with a heavy drinker from the get-go.” – Kat [46:08]
  • “Go to an AA meeting…even if you’re not a drinker, you’ll hear people that just want to do better.” – Bailey [48:25]

• On Grief:

  • “It’s a journey. Just allow yourself to heal and put yourself slowly but surely out there because I know love is gonna find you again.” – Kat [50:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction, setup for raw conversation – [02:50]
• Bailey’s story: Falling in love and the beginning – [03:12]
• Realization and confrontation about secret drinking – [08:48]
• The medical reality and stages of alcoholism – [13:54]
• The emotional trap—delusion, blame, and not leaving – [16:43]
• Self-blame, loss, and guilt – [18:40], [30:04]
• Physical decline, caretaking, and end of life – [31:58], [32:26]
• Being called out as an ‘enabler’ and learning self-value – [27:38]
• Setting future relationship standards and boundaries – [29:31], [45:00]
• Moving forward—dating, non-negotiables, and advice for others – [46:08]
• Final reflections and hope for healing – [49:25]

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Takeaways and Advice

• Acknowledge Red Flags Early: Heavy drinking in the first weeks is a major warning.
• It’s Not Selfish to Leave: Prioritizing your own wellbeing is necessary, not selfish.
• You Can’t Save Anyone Who Doesn’t Want to Be Saved: No amount of love can cure addiction.
• Seek Support: Al-Anon and AA can provide education, empathy, and empowerment.
• Establish Non-Negotiables: Write down clear boundaries for what you will and won’t accept in relationships.
• Keep Your Heart Open (Cautiously): Moving forward is possible, but only with lessons learned and a commitment to self-love.

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Final Words

This episode is a moving, honest look at the devastation of alcoholism on relationships—but also a guide to surviving it, learning from it, and ultimately healing. Both Kat and Bailey model vulnerability and strength, closing with hope for themselves and listeners: love—and loving wisely—remains possible.

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For peer support regarding alcoholism: consider Al-Anon (for loved ones) or AA (for those struggling themselves). If you or someone you know needs help, reach out.

Transcript

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[Bailey]

My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising

[Kat]

platform, trusted by over 200 million people.

[Bailey]

Start. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[Kat]

Hi, guys. Before I introduce my guest, I want to say that this is a really special episode. It's a very emotional conversation. It's very hard for both of us. But I am so grateful that you're here, Bailey. Hi, Bailey. Because I know how tough it is to talk about what we are going to talk about. But before we even start, before I even introduce you, I want to mention that for those of you guys that don't know Cat on the loose, this, this is a 100% not scripted show. I have zero script. I don't even have notes for Bailey. It's not edited. It's a very intimate, real conversation. And I have no idea how much or, you know, we're going to share, but I think collectively we are hoping that we can help women out there going through the same thing as we went through 100%. So. Hi, Bailey. It's such an honor having you here.

[Bailey]

I am very excited to be here

[Kat]

on a Saturday, no less. You're a good trooper and you show up looking like a million bucks. Oh, thank you. Like the very successful attorney will be hopefully someday. Right? And I show up in my dog mom clothes and with my baby. Right. We're multitasking today. You have. Yes. You guys might see. You guys might see Phoenix on the video episode because he's so sick, and I felt so guilty leaving him at home, and I did not want to cancel this episode because it's so important. So let's rock and roll and do the best we can.

[Bailey]

Awesome.

[Kat]

So, in a nutshell, a lot people that listen to Cut on the Loose know I was married to an alcoholic for 15 years, and he did die from alcoholism. It was a horrible death. And when we met you, I was shocked when you told me that you went through something very similar. You lost your fiance to alcoholism.

[Bailey]

Yeah, we were set to elope. Technically, we were going to do that whole lovely runoff, go to Vegas, do that whole thing. But, yeah, I lost him to cirrhosis of the liver. And my understanding was, like, he had been sober for a while, and then it kind of came out as he was in the hospital that he had been drinking.

[Kat]

So let's tell your story in bits and pieces so everybody understands what's going on. So, first of all, you're way younger than you're in your late 20s. That's when I met my husband. So that's the similarity. But how long were you guys dating?

[Bailey]

We were together almost two years. I. He was my boss. I did that whole thing. Oh, I did that. But, yeah, all together, I would say we knew each other. They're probably around three years. Dated for about two.

[Kat]

Okay, so when you met him, did you know he was an alcoholic?

[Bailey]

No, actually, so I met him as my boss. It wasn't until we started having conversations that maybe were not safe for work that some personal stuff came up. And he did share that he had cirrhosis.

[Kat]

Also, when you met him, he told you, like, you guys started going out, and he's like, I'm already sick.

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

Ah, very interesting.

[Bailey]

My understanding was that he was sober, that he was getting better.

[Kat]

Okay. That's what he told you? Of course, I believed him.

[Bailey]

I did. But he also said it so casually is the thing. So we could be talking right now, and I could say, oh, yeah, well, I have allergies. So anyways, next week, he said it just like that. Like, oh, yeah, I have cirrhosis. So, okay. Anyways. And I didn't even bother to look it up the first time. It wasn't until we started to get fairly serious that I looked into it.

[Kat]

They started getting concerned. Yeah. So see, that's the interesting parallel, because I think in my case, when I was in my 20s and I started dating Anthony. He wasn't a full blown alcoholic, but he was a heavy drinker. But at the time I did not even understand what alcohol abuse was because I come from a family. My mom was an alcoholic. I don't know if I told you that.

[Bailey]

I don't think you did.

[Kat]

My mom was an alcoholic. And I mean that's. I know my story is crazy. She actually killed herself one year before Anthony died.

[Bailey]

Wow.

[Kat]

Yeah, I think I mentioned that on the show before. So coming from a family of people that abused alcohol in my 20s, I wasn't aware of what alcohol abuse was. I just thought that's, that's what everybody did. I thought, oh, you know, people drink and people drink all the time and, and that that's what people do. So when I started dating him and, and getting more and more and more serious and he was drinking and making a lot of money and he was like, leave me alone. That's my hobby in my mind because I thought it was also my mom, my parents hobby, you know what I mean? I thought actually drinking was a normal hobby.

[Bailey]

And you know what, that's part of the problem with society nowadays is how normalized drinking is. And even just to socialize, everybody's go to is let's go grab a drink.

[Kat]

Yes.

[Bailey]

It's not let's go hiking, let's sit home and watch movies. It's let's go get a drink or let's sit at home and watch movies with a bottle of wine. Yes, always. It's very normalized.

[Kat]

And do you feel. I feel peer pressure like when I go out with my friends or even a date sometimes and I say, you know, because I, I'm not 100 sober, but I drink very, very little. Like maybe I'll have one glass of wine but if I tell people like I don't want to drink at all tonight, they pressure me. Does that happen to you ever?

[Bailey]

I wouldn't say so, honestly.

[Kat]

Oh really? That you're lucky.

[Bailey]

Well, because if I say I'm not gonna drink, I'm not gonna drink. And if they say well are you sure? Just have one, I will put my foot down and say no.

[Kat]

Yeah, but they do do that. Are you sure? Let's just have one. Yes, that part, that's what I'm happened to me too. But I want to go back to your story because that's the awareness part that I think I want to share with everyone because nowadays a huge part of my non negotiable list is I don't want to drink. I don't want to drink. I don't want to date a heavy drinker again. So for me, that's a massive deal breaker. So when you started dating this guy, obviously you were really into him.

[Bailey]

I was so madly in love with him. The first time I ever saw him, I could tell you exactly which tile I was standing on on the floor.

[Kat]

Oh, my God. So it was like, love at first sight.

[Bailey]

Yes. And I didn't believe in that, but it was immediate. I saw him and I was like, yep, that's the one. And this is kind of funny. It was me joking, but I had gone into the bar that I was managing at the time, and I told all of the employees. I was like, the new manager. I was like, that is my future baby daddy. I was like, I was so in love with him.

[Kat]

So he was a bar manager?

[Bailey]

Well, he was the director. I guess I should backtrack a little bit. We were working at the Queen Mary, the haunted boat out in the.

[Kat]

I love the Queen Mar. It's so iconic.

[Bailey]

It's incredible.

[Kat]

So he was the manager of the Queen Mary.

[Bailey]

So I was actually one of the managers. He was the director.

[Kat]

So, okay, so he wasn't, like, literally working in a bar with Boo, but. So when he took you on a date, was he drinking when he told you, I have cirrus? He was never drinking.

[Bailey]

No.

[Kat]

Oh, so he was. You guys were, like, drinking water, juice, whatever?

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

So he was.

[Bailey]

Somebody actually asked me that the other night. They were like, so what did y' all do, Go out and get Shirley Temples? Like, yeah, pretty much. But we would go do. We would have meals and dates that kept you busy. So we wouldn't just go to dinner. We would go to Korean barbecue.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

You don't even worry about the fact alcohol is not there because you're over there, you know?

[Kat]

So you start dating this guy, and as the months go by, do you think he was drinking behind your back?

[Bailey]

There was a point where I came home one day and I had a bottle of vodka in the freezer. Looking back now, I should have cleared the house of alcohol, but hindsight's 20 20, right? I had my own little bottle of Tito's. Now, I was not drinking a lot, but I noticed a little bit of it was gone. And I kept an eye on it.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

So I asked him, like, hey, did you take a shot? And he was actually very honest. He said, yes. And I was like, okay, give me a second. Like, I need to. I need to sit and think about how I want to approach the situation. So I went outside. I left him in the apartment, and then I just had that intuition go off. I'm sure, you know, women's intuition. It's just that gut feeling. And I went and checked the trash right next to the house outside, and there was a completely empty bottle. So not only had he taken that little shot, he finished another bottle.

[Kat]

Oh, my God. Yeah, That's. So that's exactly what my husband is. Yeah. But would. But did he tell you, like, when you guys started dating and you're not. He wasn't drinking alcohol in front of you? Did he say, I'm an alcoholic and I can't drink alcohol?

[Bailey]

He never. He never recognized it and named it as alcoholism. His words were, I love to drink.

[Kat]

Yeah, same exactly like that. But he wasn't drinking in front of you, and he. He already knew he had cirrhosis, which means he was very young. Right.

[Bailey]

He was 42 when he passed away.

[Kat]

Wow. That's. But so if he passed away at 42, by the time he was 40, he already had cirrhosis, which is advanced liver disease, and it's incurable. Right. I don't think you can reverse 100 of it. I'm not sure. I. I'm not a doctor.

[Bailey]

I don't know. Yeah. And different doctors told us different things.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

Honestly.

[Kat]

So he would go to the doctor.

[Bailey]

Yes. The. The time that he was fully honest with me was when he was already in the hospital. So he would go to his doctor's appointments. But he was telling me one thing and saying he was getting better.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

When the reality is his doctor was probably telling him something different.

[Kat]

So this day that you found a bottle of vodka, did you confront him?

[Bailey]

I absolutely did. And I honestly think in this moment, I grew as a. Obviously, like, I was pissed. You don't like being lied to as a woman. Like, it's insulting to your intelligence. I didn't appreciate it. But as mad as I was, I took a breath, and I was like, okay, how do I want to handle this? A, I get mad at him for lying to me, or B, realize he's struggling, and if he's lying about it, then there's a bigger issue here. And at that point, I've kind of put the relationship to the side and just wanted to show up for him as a person. Because if you're struggling with alcoholism, a lot of times, there's a deeper issue that you're covering up for sure. And that's. I thought we opened a very strong line of communication and honesty whenever we had that conversation.

[Kat]

But obviously when you found out it's not true. But this is what, that's my experience because in my case, obviously Anthony, he was drinking in front of everybody and because he made so much money, answer was always like, leave me alone. I make more money in an hour than you're gonna make in a year or in a month. And this is my hobby and I'm going to drink. So he was very open about it.

[Bailey]

Did he keep drinking once he knew he had cirrhosis?

[Kat]

Oh yeah. Like so what? In, in his case, he never wanted to stop ever. He decided. And as he got sicker and sicker and sicker, he was like, because you know there's stages of alcoholism, right? A lot of people don't know that if you are a super busy professional like me, but you don't have a lot of time to plan delicious, wholesome, healthy home cooked meals. HelloFresh makes it easy for all of us to do more of it this year with recipes that feel good and taste delicious night after night. We can choose from over 100 recipes every week including more than 35 high protein recipes plus Mediterranean and GLP1 friendly options so you never get bored of eating the same thing over and over again again. I love the wholesome ingredients such as sustainably sourced seafood and 100 antibiotic and hormone free chicken. Because when dinner tastes this good and it's so easy to put together, nothing is better than home cooking. So hurry up and go to hellofresh.comcat10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free Zwilling knife 144.99 value you on your third box. That's hellofresh.com Kat Kat 10fm for your 10 free meals. So hurry up because offers valid only while supplies last. Free meals applies discount on first box. New subscribers only. Various y plan When I say like there's the functioning alcoholic, the guy that drinks a lot and but he still goes to work. Like probably was your boyfriend, right? They go to work, they socialize, they do everything. That's the functioning alcoholic.

[Bailey]

And those are most dangerous ones.

[Kat]

Exactly. I was dating a guy like that dysfunctioning alcoholic two years ago and I realized because every place we went he was drinking heavily, embarrassing himself and everything. And I'm like okay, I've seen this movie before, it takes a while. Usually the functioning alcoholic, if he wants to stop drinking, you can get help. You can put yourself in rehab and you can get help. But if you advance to stage four alcoholism like that, you're so sick and you're chemically dependent on alcohol, which is what happened to Anthony, my husband, you need to be hospitalized.

[Bailey]

Yes. And I never realized how severe the effects of alcoholism are. There was a point when he was in the hospital, the doctor told us, me, his family, him, that when he went home, he needed to not have any shampoo with alcohol in it, no body wash with alcohol in it, because his body was that desperate for it, it will absorb it. Yes. And that is kind of when it hit me. This is a very serious.

[Kat]

Yes, it's. That's. And that's the scary part. If anybody out there is listening and you are dating the stage, like the heavy drinker. The heavy drinker that I need a drink, I need a drink, I need a drink. Or the functioning alcoholic that is always around booze, this is your red flag, in my opinion. Get the hell out, because this is going to be a long road. But like you said. Yes. If the person ends up in the hospital that they need in. I don't know if that was what happened to your boyfriend, but with Anthony, we got to a point towards the end of his life that they were like, okay, the only way you're gonna get cleaned up is you need to stay in the hospital. You need to get like this IV treatment. And. Because if you stop drinking, all of a sudden you can have a heart attack and die. And I don't think most people understand the severity of alcoholism that it gets to this point.

[Bailey]

And again, part of the issue with that is because it's so normalized and it's so cute, glamorous, have a glass of champagne and everything until you're turning yellow in the hospital.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

So that's. It stinks. But sometimes it takes having that experience to realize how serious it is.

[Kat]

Right, but so in your case. Because obviously, yes, I was going through the same in my 20s, but I ended up marrying him. I ended up staying with him for 15 years. I don't wish that on anybody. But that was my story. In your case, you were going through this. You are very young, in your 20s, you're madly in love with this guy. But why do you think you stayed? Because I know a lot of 20 year olds would say, you know what, this is just too much for me. I don't want to deal with this shit. Even if you're in love with the person, you just can't handle it.

[Bailey]

I think part of me was delusional, honestly. I was so in love with him and I thought he wasn't drinking And. And I would have done absolutely anything for him. In my head, he was gonna get better. Even as I saw him getting worse, I still was in such denial that I thought he was gonna get better. And I would sit there, like, going down wormholes on my phone, like, almost trying to save him in a way, like, where can I get you a liver? Like, where can we. Can we go overseas? And maybe there's some sort of stem cell, something. Like, I was so desperate that I think it made me delusional. And that. That is the craziest part, because, like I said, Hindsight's 20 20. And looking back, even I look and I'm like. Like, what was my thought process? It doesn't make sense. But when you're in love, I guess it doesn't.

[Kat]

Yeah. When you. Did you feel he was going to stop drinking for you? Like, oh, I love him so much, and he loves me. He's gonna change for me.

[Bailey]

I thought that he wasn't drinking to begin with is the thing, but when

[Kat]

you found out, like, when he was hospitalized and everything, like you said, you're looking for liver transplants, you. There was probably some part inside you, because that was my thinking, because people ask me all the time, why did you stay so long? And my answer is, because I always thought I could save him. I always thought, he's gonna. He loves me. He's gonna stop. He loves me. He's gonna change. I always thought there was something I was going to be able to do that was going to, you know, turn the game around.

[Bailey]

Yeah. And I do relate to that. I think I had a little bit of a savior complex, but it's just. Yeah, I just wanted to help him so bad. And honestly, I wanted to be there for him more than anything, because even at my ripe age, I couldn't imagine the situation he was in. Just removing myself from it. Just knowing that you're that sick, having to deal with these things. And I didn't want to. It didn't feel right walking away at any point, because how am I just supposed to leave somebody like that?

[Kat]

And I think I felt the same way. I felt guilty. I. I felt like if I leave him, then he's really going to die. Because he used to say that to me, by the way, in my case, the emotional blackmail was so happy. He literally used to say to me, yeah, if you leave me, yeah, it. I want to die anyway. I'm just gonna drink until I die. I mean, he did end up doing that, by the way, but he used to, like, the minute I would say, like, I'm gonna divorce you if you continue drinking, I can't take this shit anymore, he would tell me, yeah, fine, I just want to drink until I die. And I felt so guilty, so guilty. Just the thought of leaving that situation.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Were you similar. Did you think, like, in a similar way, like, if you left him, something bad was gonna happen to him? I.

[Bailey]

The truth is, I never thought about leaving him.

[Kat]

Wow.

[Bailey]

Yeah, I was. I think the only. You are committed 1 million percent. The only time that I even thought maybe this isn't working out was towards the very end because he was completely bedridden. Pretty much. Like, our anniversary came around and I thought we were gonna have like, a very nice date night, but he was too sick. And I hate to say it, but at a certain point, I started to get a little selfish. And I was like, you know, I am young and now I'm giving up part of my life to take care of him. And within a couple days after that, he was in the hospital.

[Kat]

It's very interesting that you said that I'm being selfish because this is the lesson that I learned because I used to feel the exact same way. I don't think this is being selfish. Like, self love is self preservation. And I want to say that to anybody going through the same thing that we are going through. If you feel you have to leave because the person is an alcoholic, you're not being selfish. I think you have the right to put your health and your life first if the person doesn't want to stop drinking. Because now, nowadays, I'm a firm believer that nobody's going to stop drinking because they love you. I think they're only going to stop drinking if they make this decision, like, I want to save my life. It doesn't matter how much they love you. I think for an alcoholic, the booze always comes first.

[Bailey]

Yep.

[Kat]

They love the booze more.

[Bailey]

Yeah. When did you. When did you realize how bad your situation was getting?

[Kat]

Yeah. So it's interesting, right, because people ask me that question all the time. It's not like one day, Right. It's not like you wake up and you say, oh, my God, this is horrible. That's the sad part about alcoholism because it's a disease that progresses, like, slowly. It creeps in. It creeps in. And then the famous phrase, the person says, I can stop whenever I want. I can get better whenever I want. So it's something that, like, you're so invested. Right. Year after year after year after year. It's not like, one day, you know, it kind of progresses as life goes on. And of course, in my case, as the years went by, once I realized, oh, my God, this guy drinks a lot, I was so invested. I ended up being his wife. I'm like, okay, now I really gotta save him, you know?

[Bailey]

Yeah. When he would go to doctor's appointments, would you go with him?

[Kat]

He would not. Oh, no, that's the problem. He only started going to doctors appointments at the very end of his life. So for many, many, many, many years, he was drinking and drinking bottles of vodka, bottles of wine, bottles of this, and he would not see a doctor. He did not. He was like, I don't believe in doctors. I'm fine. You know?

[Bailey]

So how did he find out he had cirrhosis?

[Kat]

Yeah. So in his case, it wasn't just cirrhosis, because towards the end of the very end of his life. Because this is what I think a lot of people don't understand about alcohol. It's not just the cirrhosis. Alcohol affects your entire body. For example, it starts destroying the lining of your stomach. So, like, you drink alcohol so much every day, it starts destroying your stomach. So one of the symptoms of a heavy alcohol drinker is that, like, you start having horrible stomach pain. So, like, even you try to eat and the food doesn't go down. Well, you know, some people start throwing up. I mean, I don't want to be so graphic, but there's like. It affects your body in so many ways. You start gaining a ton of weight because your entire body does not know how to process alcohol. So, like, if you notice a lot of alcoholics, I don't know if. If your fiance was the same, because, by the way, you guys were engaged by the time he passed away, Right.

[Bailey]

Pretty much.

[Kat]

You thought you were gonna marry. Yeah.

[Bailey]

It's a very interesting situation. And I mean, honestly, I speak to it about, or I speak to some people about it, but it's such a crazy, like, Grey's Anatomy situation that it's. It was so dramatic. And for what?

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[Bailey]

But he was in the hospital. Liver transplant was on the table. They're getting his profile together to send to different hospitals. So we were already going to elope. We were already basically engaged, but we were like, like, crap. Now we need the ring and everything. And we basically decided to go fully through with it to make his profile look better.

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[Bailey]

Because it looked a lot better if he had messed up and drank and had a family and things like that, rather than just a single you were

[Kat]

crazy invested in this situation. Yeah, that's love, but it's not. Not I. It's love, but at the same time, it's toxic love for you as it was for me, you know? Yeah.

[Bailey]

And that's the thing is looking back, and I mean, I don't want to air out my dirty laundry or his because he can't.

[Kat]

Well, you can air as much as you feel comfortable with, you know.

[Bailey]

Yeah. I just looking back, I think it's a relationship that I absolutely had to have because there was absolutely nothing that was going to make me leave him. Yeah. There were messages I found on his phone. There was an ex that he couldn't leave alone. There was just so many different things. And I. I put myself to the side and honestly, I feel like I definitely stayed longer than I should and put up with things that I promise you I will never put up with again. And I think that's where the situation sucks.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

But my goodness, did I learn some valuable lessons.

[Kat]

I think that's the whole point. Right. Because we hope, like, I mean, look, in my case, I was situation for 15 years. 15 years, same. And I always say, I hope to God no woman stays in such a toxic, horrible situation, horrible environment for so long. But on the same token, if you take some lessons from it and you don't repeat the same mistakes. Right. Because every person that comes through our lives has to be a lesson you have. And I. And another thing that I believe, if you don't learn that lesson, the universe will teach you that lesson over and over. And which was he happened to me, by the way, because when I left him, I was so messed up in my head because, you know, I was in this chaotic, abusive relationship because of course he started being very verbally abusive to me because he drank. I thought that was normal. So I kept getting tangled up.

[Bailey]

So he was a mean alcoholic.

[Kat]

He was a very mean alcoholic. He started being a very mean alcoholic, very bipolar.

[Bailey]

So he didn't start. Do you think he was possibly always a mean alcoholic, but kind of kept it on the back burner?

[Kat]

I think it, it gets worse with time. Right. Like, if you're bipolar, I think the alcohol exacerbates the behavior. If you are, if you, if you think it's okay to verbally abuse someone, you know the alcohol is going to make you do it and then you do it once, twice. Because I, I just heard that from a guy that I interviewed on my show the other day, and I agree with him. We enable it. We enable it. So when I say, yes, he was verbally abusive to me. Right. If you let the person do it again and again and again and again, you are telling them how they can treat you. At the time, I did not think about it, but it's so true. We can blame the abuser, you can blame the person, but they are what they are. Right. It's like dating a narcissist, whatever they do to. Or dating a cheater. If you, if the guy cheats on you, like you, you said, you look at it, you know they're cheating on you and you. Okay, I'll forgive you. You are basically saying that it's okay to treat me like that. Say, what are you gonna say? You have something you want to say? No, no, no.

[Bailey]

I'm agreeing. I write borderline, feel called out, but in a good way. Because you do. You enable it. And that's.

[Kat]

I felt called out too, but it was in a good way.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Because I never. Because I was always saying, oh, he abused the out of me. He abused the out of me. He abused the out of me for 50 years. And then I'm like, yeah, but I put up with it. I let him do it time and time and time and time again, you know? Yeah.

[Bailey]

And you learn how to kind of tell yourself excuses too. Like you learn how to lie to yourself to make it okay to stay. But I don't know about you, but there were certain situations that you would enable, but they would give you an excuse or like an I'm sorry.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

And you buy it. Like, I got hit with, I think the worst one in the world. And looking back now, oh, my goodness. But I would find messages with other girls on there. It's like, but you're my main one. You're the one that I'm living with.

[Kat]

Yeah. Like, oh, oh, you guys were living together.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Wow. Yeah. That's very intense.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Kat]

But it's good that you're putting it out there because these are the things I. That's. That's what I learned. And, you know, I'm a very slow learner, as you can notice, because it was literally doing the show for being married to an alcoholic for 15 years. You know, leaving the marriage, all this chaos, doing my show for six years to finally learn the lessons. I now have a list of non negotiables I literally wrote down on a piece of paper. And one of these things like you just said, if somebody gives you excuses why they are treating you poorly, that's like, don't accept it.

[Bailey]

But wouldn't you Say that's one good thing that came out of a very negative situation is now you have the ability to take absolutely no shit at all. And once you've gone through that level of pain, and it's one of the worst things that can happen, losing the person that is your other half, literally, once you go through that, you almost become invincible. Would you agree?

[Kat]

One million percent?

[Bailey]

Yeah. Nothing else hits you in the same way.

[Kat]

You are so right. Obviously the pain of loss. Loss, unless you've been through loss, I don't think we can describe it and explain. The people listening that have been through loss, they know it is the people that have not been through it. You're very lucky. But losing someone that you love so much and knowing that there was nothing you could do to help them. I felt powerless. Like I felt when, when I knew he was going to die. And then when he died I was like. I felt like I was a failure year.

[Bailey]

But part of yourself dies too. And you always hear people say that and it sounds dramatic, but. Yeah, I know looking back now, part of me did, but it was the part that was just very super loving. So much so that I would love others more than myself.

[Kat]

Same, same. I was always the one. I put myself last.

[Bailey]

Last.

[Kat]

I would take a bullet for that man. Like I would have given him my kidney, whatever he needed, you know, I would have done anything for him. But when he died and I remember the told me, I remember the day I said, I'm going to divorce you if you don't stop drinking. That was when my father died. He was drinking at 7am Your father

[Bailey]

died from alcoholism as well?

[Kat]

No, my father passed away. My father had a heart attack in 2013 and my mom called me at 7am to tell me, you know, your father died. And my husband was getting drunk already at 7am sitting by the pool and I remember telling him, you know, hey, my father died. And he made fun of it. He was like, ah, don't worry about it. My true. My father wasn't a nice.

[Bailey]

Goodness.

[Kat]

My father was not a nice person. But it's a loss, right? I lost my dad.

[Bailey]

And that day you grab out the chunk line.

[Kat]

And that day I remember thinking like, I went to my bedroom and I was so sad. And I'm like, he's never gonna support, he's never going to understand anything. And that's when I, I put this ultimatum like, I'm going to divorce if you don't stop drinking. And he was like, I'm not going to stop drinking. Divorce.

[Bailey]

Wow.

[Kat]

Yeah. So I did, I did, we did sign the divorce paper a few months later. And I remember I was crying and crying and begging and begging and begging and we signed a divorce paper. But he, we found out he was very sick. We found out he was going to die. So I went, moved back in to take care of him because I was the only person he allowed near him.

[Bailey]

Oh, wow. You know, so you were kind of playing the role of caretaker towards the end.

[Kat]

Oh, yes, for two years. I almost died in the process. Like if you see the videos, I always say, I, I hope every alcoholic, every person that drinks heavily would watch the videos of what it is taking care of. By the time he was almost done, he was a 240 pound man. Because like I said, a big side effect of, of severe alcohol abuse is that your body cannot process calories.

[Bailey]

Yes. And you also get, I believe it's a cities is how or a cd, something like that. But it's basically where your stomach starts swelling because your liver cannot process toxins, so they start building up in your belly.

[Kat]

Exactly. That's what happened to Anthony. Yes.

[Bailey]

And the craziest part is like you have to go in and drain it.

[Kat]

Drain it.

[Bailey]

It's so uncomfortable. That procedure exists.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Bailey]

There's so many different things. It does. And I think what people don't understand is how important the liver is that next to the brain is probably one of the most vital organs because once it's gone, it is so hard to get back and it does almost everything for your body.

[Kat]

And I think, yes. And also, like I said, a lot of people think, oh, he drank, it's cirrhosis, right? Yeah, that's a big part of it. But it affects your entire body. You become a diabetic, you get this huge bloating that you have to like drain it out of you. And it's crazy painful. Obviously, needless to say, it affects your brain, it affects your entire body. And it is horrible. It is horrible. And that's why I think this is such an important conversation. Because if you are drinking heavily, this is your time to seek help and stop. Because every alcoholic I ever met, they always think they have it under control. Until the day that they lose control. Until the day that they cannot stop alone anymore.

[Bailey]

More.

[Kat]

Right?

[Bailey]

Yep.

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[Bailey]

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[Kat]

Grocery outlet bargain market. Do you think when he was in the hospital, like, do you think he knew he was gonna die or did he think, yeah, he knew he was gonna die?

[Bailey]

I think he knew he was gonna die before he went to the hospital. I think he knew probably a couple months before he did.

[Kat]

I don't want to because he was very, very sick.

[Bailey]

He was very sick. And on top of that, he was drinking. We didn't know that at the time. Wow. But. And even how I found out he was in the hospital, like, he had gotten really sick. The toxins had started going to his brain, so he was completely out of it. So I hear a nurse going over his chart, and it got to the part where it's like, last drink of alcohol. His last drink was 10 days ago.

[Kat]

Oh, wow.

[Bailey]

Yeah. I was like, I love you so much. I cannot be around you right now, partially because of emotions, but I also wanted to be. Excuse me.

[Kat]

But it's very painful. I cannot imagine because like I said, you know, when Anthony died, I was way older than you. I was in my 40s. But I cannot imagine going through all of it so quickly like you did. But in a way, it made you such a strong woman.

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

You are not the same that you were before everything happened. Right.

[Bailey]

100%, no. And I would say the hard part is there is like a. I don't know, like a breeze of coolness that kind of came with it, like coldness, if you will, because that will make you so cold. And I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. You just become almost void of emotion. And it. It's really hard. Cause I think naturally, like, our hearts kind of want to close. And it's so easy to become a bitter little person. And that's the thing that I'm struggling with right now more than anything, is not letting it close. Your heart up, still caring about people and.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

Kind of learning the fine line between giving too much of your heart.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

And. Yeah.

[Kat]

Well, this is what I would say to you and everybody else out there, no matter what happened in your past and our experiences are extremely painful. Right. We are talking about it now because I'm seven years, six years after everything happened. I'm very healed. I'm in a great place in my life. And you are. Are in a. In a process of getting.

[Bailey]

Healing. I just got over the anger part.

[Kat]

Yeah. Because by the way, this just happened last year to you. Right. He passed away last year, Correct.

[Bailey]

August. I think we just hit six months.

[Kat]

Yeah. So this is very raw. Yeah, very raw. And I'm extremely grateful that you're willing to share your story because, I mean, like you said, it has. Hasn't even been a year.

[Bailey]

So I think It's a process, 100%.

[Kat]

But this is what I would say. Never, ever, ever close your heart to love, because love is the biggest healer, you know. But yes, I do think you need to be smart about who you love.

[Bailey]

Right. Like I told you, I told him, and this is partially a joke, I think, but I had told him like he was my chance to marry for love. I do still. Was it the most healthy? No. But I do think that he's still at least one of the loves of my life. I guess we'll find out what happens.

[Kat]

But I'm sure you will have father. I mean, you're super young.

[Bailey]

Well, I told him he was for sure my chance to marry for love. 100% next time I'm marrying for money.

[Kat]

No, you're full of you.

[Bailey]

You say that. Tell me that from my little yacht.

[Kat]

Listen, number one, you don't need to. I, I going to tell you something. When I marry Anthony, everybody thought I was because he was richer than me. But I did not marry him for money because I made my own money. I was successful in my own right. I had my college degrees, I did my thing. And that's why he got attracted to me. Right. All these girls around Beverly Hills, like fishing around for the millionaire. I'm like, have your own life, have your own interest.

[Bailey]

You don't fish for the millionaires in Beverly Hills anywhere opinion.

[Kat]

But they're out in Bel Air. For people that don't know you, you're gonna give them the map. But for people that don't know you, you have a lot going on in your life. You're building a beautiful career. I am sure you're not gonna marry for Money. Even if you marry a very wealthy guy, which you deserve, it's going to be. Be, like, an equal to all the success that you're building in your own right. You are going to marry for love. I promise you. I know today, maybe you're skeptical.

[Bailey]

I've been paying men's bills for over two years now. It's time for somebody to pay money.

[Kat]

Well, Bailey, listen, that's another thing that you never do. Why in the world would you do that?

[Bailey]

Well, I'm 27 now. I was like, 25.

[Kat]

But why would you.

[Bailey]

24, 23.

[Kat]

No woman should be paying a dude's bills.

[Bailey]

Now I understand why I'm at where I'm at. I'm like, if a man's gonna come into my life, I say dating for money, and I don't actually mean that. But if a man comes into my life, he is never going to ask me to split a bill.

[Kat]

Of course.

[Bailey]

But I spent the last two years dishing out money to see my love.

[Kat]

Look, we preach on Cat on the Loose, and we just had an episode with this fabulous guy last week. You should listen. And he. He said the same thing. And I say over and over and over again, again, you should not be splitting bills because we split bills. Girlfriends split bills. Buddies split bills. When you go on a date with a guy, you want the guy to treat you like a princess, like a woman, so you can relax and be in your feminine energy. And that has zero to do with how much money you make. Even if you're making $5 million a year, you want a guy that will take you on a date and treat you like the woman that you deserve to be.

[Bailey]

Yes. But a date at, like, Fogo de Cha,

[Kat]

so you can go to Fogo de Chon, the Brazilian steakhouse. It doesn't matter where you go.

[Bailey]

Some of my jokes are going over here.

[Kat]

No, I get your jokes, but you should still go on dates with guys that are gonna treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

You shouldn't be going on a date with guys that want you to split the bill. Oh, no.

[Bailey]

100%. That's one of those things I had to live and learn. And I think for the first part of my 20s, I was so focused on being the chill girl. The cool girl, like, oh, it's okay. I'll split half the bill. No, I'm not. I'm not the chill girl. Not anymore.

[Kat]

No.

[Bailey]

Maybe I never was, like, oh, gosh, look. No standards.

[Kat]

Did you hear what happened? That's another thing I Talk on the show already. This girl is going viral on Tick Tock. But she has millions of. I forgot her name. She has millions of. Of people that follow her on Tick Tock. She went on a date with this kid of his. Privileged kid, I think I saw this.

[Bailey]

And he was like.

[Kat]

And at the end of the day he was like, well, I'm only gonna pay the bill if you go home with me sex. And she filmed it and she posted. She didn't. She didn't. She, she did the writing because she didn't film his face, but she filmed the situation. She's like, are you crazy? Right? And then she put it on Tick Tock and he threatened to sue her. Did you see that? I mean, what kind of.

[Bailey]

There's no grounds there. His face wasn't shown in it. Yeah.

[Kat]

Plus she went to his father's an attorney. So she went to the father and told the father everything.

[Bailey]

Everything.

[Kat]

And I think that was genius because what kind of a man behaves like that? You should pay for the date because you are a gentleman, not because you expect something from the woman at the end of the date. Right. It's just the way women deserve to be treated. It's that simple. And obviously that's the kind of guy you should date. The guys that think you deserve an amazing date.

[Bailey]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Kat]

Yeah. So that's. It's okay. Like do your non negotiable list. And you're like, I don't want to date dudes that treat me. Because if a guy splits a date with you, you're gonna feel like you're going out with your friend. Not with a date.

[Bailey]

Whenever. Let's say you're on a date and you feel like it's not going well, like you're.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

You know, at the end, are you going to let him pay?

[Kat]

Always. Oh, I. Listen, I want to tell you something. God's honest truth. I've been on many, many, many dates. Not once ever a man suggested that I split the bill because they know the kind of woman they are taking out on a date date. So I only go on a date with the man that agrees that a man pays the bill. Again, it has nothing to do with money. It's how I want to be treated on a date. If I want to go out with my. And my best friends are men, by the way. If I go out with my bestie, we split. We're besties. But if I go out with my man, they pay.

[Bailey]

Now even the friends. I don't know about you but even if I go out with my guy friends, yeah. I never really have to reach for the bill.

[Kat]

Well, but. But answering a question, you go on a date, you don't know if that's your person or not. So. But even you can still be polite. You have a great conversation. At the end of the night, you're like, thank you so much. But the guy always grabs the bill and pays. That's it. Don't offer. Don't offer. It's a date. You need. Same thing. You need to set the standard for how a man is going to treat you. Remember that, baby.

[Bailey]

If the date's not going well, though, you don't really have to set a standard for how he's going to treat you, because he's not going to be treating you at all like you're telling

[Kat]

him bye on that date. But on that date, and in your mind, it's your mindset, if that's a date, you need to be treated like the way you want to be treated from beginning to end.

[Bailey]

See, that's kind of my way of being like, this isn't going any further than this, like, putting my half of the bill. And I don't know, that kind of makes me feel good, letting them know, like, hey, I can do this on my own.

[Kat]

But they know that that's privilege to

[Bailey]

be able to pay for my bill.

[Kat]

I agree. Look, I can pay. And I always say, like, the guys that say, oh, girls want the meal, the free meal, we're like, no, we can pay for our own meal. We can go to any restaurant we want. In Beverly Hills. It's not about the money. It's the gesture. Like, when you go out on a date with a guy, if you want a man that is being. Going to be a provider that is going to think you deserve to be treated like a lady, you got to set the precedent that that's the kind of guy you want to date, you know? At least that's how I see it. I would never offer to pay for half, even if I know I'm never gonna see the guy again.

[Bailey]

Really?

[Kat]

Yeah. I never did. I never was asked to do it ever. Not ever.

[Bailey]

I've definitely done that before. It's kind of me being like, okay, like, this is. We're good just splitting it off. It's my way of politely being like, the.

[Kat]

This is so he knows, like, I'm not gonna call this chick again. That's a. That's very interesting. I know I'm gonna get a lot of messages about this one. I I, I'm from the club. Like, thank you very much. I appreciate you, you know, and that's it. But I'm not gonna pay for a date. It's just my, I don't know, it's my rule for myself. I never paid for dates in my life. I don't want to start now at my age. So I'm like, okay, that's, you know, it is what it is. But before we run out of time wrapping it up, um, because obviously this is a really important and serious subject, I believe and tell me if you agree or not. And that goes for any woman out there listening or any man for that matter. If you go on a date, if you go out on a date, one date, two dates, three dates, and you notice that person is a heavy drinker, I personally would say don't invest in that.

[Bailey]

Especially if they're drinking that heavy within the first three dates, that's a definite red flag because that's normal to them and that. Yes, they think that that is acceptable to get wasted around you. And that's whenever they're trying to put their best foot forward.

[Kat]

Yes.

[Bailey]

So if that's their best foot, you might want to pick a different pair of feet.

[Kat]

That's a very good, very good point. Because I started dating this attorney. I told you. Right. And he was a heavy drinker and I have no idea why I went on six dates with him. Although I already knew, like this guy is drinking an entire bottle of, of wine, an entire butter. So yeah, like if it's a red flag. So I would hope nobody gets to the point that you and I got to be dating a full blown alcoholic and lose them because it's so painful or have them be a big part of your life. So I would say put on your non negotiable list and don't get tangled up with a heavy drinker from the get go. Do you agree?

[Bailey]

Yes, 100%.

[Kat]

Yeah. So you, you would never gonna get, go down that road again, know. Yeah. Good for you.

[Bailey]

And I think it's more important than that. It's also putting, I guess it's acknowledging the fact that I will never try to save someone from it again either.

[Kat]

Just very good. Same, same. Yeah, I know my limits and I, and again, I don't like to use the word selfish. I know Phoenix is like, let's go, mommy. He knows the time, right. He's very intelligent. I wouldn't want to put this word selfish, but I am super, super honest and I tell people like, I cannot possibly physically and Mentally deal with helping another alcoholic again.

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

I just don't. I just can't because it almost killed me. And I know it's not something I'm capable of doing again.

[Bailey]

Yes.

[Kat]

And I'm sure it's not something you're capable of doing again.

[Bailey]

Absolutely not. I say it to my friends. It's. I was a hospice nurse at the age of 26 and didn't know.

[Kat]

Same same for two years. Exactly. And it literally almost killed me. So I'm going to say, say, we are not doctors. We are not experts. We're just sharing our personal opinion, how tough it was. But if anybody out there listening, if you are dating an alcoholic, there are tons of L ANON groups, amazing groups out there. If you feel you need support, get help. Because it's really, really tough to go. Go through what we went through. Right. It's horrible.

[Bailey]

It is. And I'm gonna make a recommendation as well to anybody that's watching. Go to an AA meeting. You do not have to be an alcoholic to go to an AA meeting. You don't have to drink to go to an AA meeting. But it is actually a very enlightening experience. I have sat in on one before, hearing people's experience with alcoholism. It's very educational.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

And it also. I feel like it's chicken soup for the soul, if you will, because you're in a room full of people that just want to do better. They're looking at their life, and they're just like, wow, I could be a better version of myself for whoever that be, even if it's themselves.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

And I think it's such a powerful room to be in. Oh, my God.

[Kat]

I agree with you. And I love that you said that, because get help. All unknown. If you guys don't know, it's for family or relatives or spouses, whatever, significant others of people that drink, and they give you a lot of support and they guide you on how to do the situation. And of course, Alcoholic Anonymous, you know, you can go. And even if you're not a drinker, you're gonna seek people that are going through the situation.

[Bailey]

Same.

[Kat]

But I will say, get help. Get help. Don't get tangled up in the same crisis that you and I did because I'm a firm believer. Nobody's going to stop drinking because they love you. They're only going to stop drinking if they love themselves.

[Bailey]

This is a disease.

[Kat]

Yeah. Bailey, thank you so much for being so courageous for sharing your story with us. And please keep your little heart open for love. Because you are gorgeous. You are so young. You have your entire life ahead of you.

[Bailey]

Yeah, I think it'll come with time. You know, six months is so fresh. I'm not gonna hurt.

[Kat]

I think I have to say I agree with you. I think it's a journey. But just allow yourself to heal and put yourself slowly but surely out there because I know love is gonna find you again.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Kat]

You're amazing. Thank you so much.

[Bailey]

Thank you, guys.

[Kat]

Be safe out there. I love you. And please don't drink and drive and don't drink too much because it's a horrible, horrible disease. Right? Be safe out there. Drink love. Drink love.

[Bailey]

Yeah. Here we go.

[Kat]

Cheers.

[Bailey]

Cheers.

[Kat]

Thank you. Love you. See you guys again very soon. This is Ayoa Kemolare from the Athletic FC podcast. Buying a car should be exciting, not exhausting. And if you're looking for a gleaming SUV to replace your old banger or you're taking the plunge and going electric, the good news is you can buy

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[Kat]

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[Kat]

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Really?

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