MARINA LACERDA EPSTEIN ABUSIVE SURVIVOR aka JANE DOE MINOR 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kat on the Loose Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Marina Lacerda Epstein (abuse survivor, aka Jane Doe Minor 1)
Episode Date: April 22, 2026
Episode Theme: Surviving Abuse – The Story of Marina Lacerda and the Fight Against Shame, Silence, and Injustice

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Overview

This powerful episode features an unfiltered conversation between host Kat Zammuto and Marina Lacerda Epstein, a survivor of severe childhood and teenage abuse, including sexual abuse by both her stepfather and Jeffrey Epstein. Marina shares her deeply personal journey from a traumatic upbringing in Brazil and the U.S. to being ensnared by Epstein’s circle as a vulnerable immigrant teenager. The episode is a candid, supportive, and often emotional exploration of survivorhood, the importance of speaking out, and the systemic challenges that prevent victims from seeking and receiving justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Speaking Out [00:36–01:23]

• Both Kat and Marina highlight the immense difficulty of sharing stories of abuse and the importance of doing so to empower others.
• Kat reveals her own experience of a 15-year abusive marriage, fostering solidarity and understanding with Marina.
• Quote:
  "It's very hard to tell your story. But I think it's important for women like us to continue talking about it so that we empower other women and men as well, you know, to talk about their abuse." — Marina [01:01]

Shame, Judgment, and the Victim Experience [01:23–03:16]

• Discussion of how victims, especially women, often feel more social shame and judgment than perpetrators.

• Marina reflects on the cycle of normalizing trauma and the difficult process of awakening to self-worth.

• Quote: "People were like, but why did you stay?... It's something so hard to explain, right?... The cycle just continues and you start to normalize that cycle." — Marina [01:57]

Marina’s Early Life and Family Abuse [04:15–10:23]

• Marina recounts emigrating from Brazil, attachment to her mother, and severe abuse by her stepfather, which began at age eight.

• The betrayal by her mother—who failed to protect her and sometimes blamed Marina—features heavily.

• Marina’s earliest exposure to sexual abuse is described with harrowing honesty; she explains both the confusion and the isolation she felt.

• The police response minimized her abuse, leading to further self-blame and silence.

• Quote: "The perpetrator does not stop. It only ends when you speak and you get the authorities involved." — Marina [07:02] "The police officers did not believe me...so I started to minimize my abuse." — Marina [09:30]

Challenges of Disbelief and Social Stigma [10:23–12:39]

• Kat and Marina discuss how societal disbelief and stigma can silence victims, particularly when abusers are well-regarded or affluent.
• Kat shares that nobody believed her about her wealthy husband’s abuse.

Economic Hardship and Vulnerability [13:28–15:07]

• After her stepfather is jailed, Marina and her family face financial hardship.
• Begins working from a very young age, often in difficult environments—a set-up for further exploitation.

Introduction to Jeffrey Epstein [14:17–18:18]

• Through a friend, Marina is introduced to Epstein under the guise of giving massages for money—a standard grooming tactic in his operations.

• Description of first arriving at Epstein’s New York mansion, noting the display of photos with powerful men (Clinton, Bush, Prince Andrew), which she now sees as a manipulative power play.

• Quote: "He wanted to make sure that everybody knew he had power and he knew people." — Marina [18:18]

First Encounter—Manipulation and Exploitation [21:20–27:39]

• Details the explicit abuse and manipulation that occurred during her first visit.

• Epstein’s transactional and grooming behaviors, leveraging both intimidation and "generosity".

• Quote: "He turns around and he goes, can you take off your bra? And I froze...Then he goes to lean in to touch my, my boob, and I just like, put his hand down." — Marina [25:06]

The Economics and Desperation of Survival [27:39–30:45]

• Marina describes how desperation, immigrant status, and grooming compounded to make her and many others easy prey for Epstein’s network.
• Details on how secretaries provided green cards in exchange for sexual exploitation.
• Nuanced discussion on the blurred lines between victims and collaborators under coercion.

Trauma, Memory, and Coming to Terms with Abuse [37:26–40:27]

• Only years later, with the help of other survivors and therapy, Marina recognizes that what happened was rape and not "sex".

• Discusses meeting other survivors at Virginia Giuffre’s memorial and the complex aftermath of trauma.

• Quote: "Trauma is so beyond what we think, and it really does its job. I couldn't remember that he raped me...My therapist was like, you didn't have sex with him. He raped you." — Marina [38:18]

The Role of Ghislaine Maxwell and Systemic Complicity [41:14–44:33]

• Marina recounts her only direct experience with Ghislaine Maxwell, who participated in the sexual assault but was not immediately identified as "Ghislaine" at the time.
• Speaks on Maxwell’s role in recruitment and abuse logistics—described as, at times, even more predatory.

The Fight for Justice and Accountability [45:05–50:41]

• Disillusionment with the systemic failure to hold perpetrators—especially those in powerful positions—accountable.

• Marina emphasizes the need for survivors to testify only if all parties, including powerful men in the files, must testify as well.

• Quote: "Justice really looks like...holding people accountable. There are people out there. Nobody's holding them accountable. Nobody's bringing them criminally charged." — Marina [49:06]

Life After Abuse—and the Power to Reclaim the Narrative [51:15–52:35]

• Kat underscores the importance of reclaiming a name and a face: Marina, not just "Jane Doe Minor 1".

• Affirmation that there is "life after abuse" and a call to protect one’s peace and speak out.

• Quote: "Never forget. You need to protect your peace. And you need to understand one thing. There is life after abuse." — Marina [52:30] "You have every right in the world to speak up and tell your truth, your story." — Kat [31:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Separated, we are not going to be strong. They are going to attack us, and they will win. So we need to stand united." — Marina [07:29]
• "Don't let anybody tell you to shut up in any...even if it's a relative. You have every right in the world to speak up and tell your truth." — Kat [31:49]
• "If I had a green card, I would have done it. Let me tell you, if I was the secretary, I probably would have been offering these girls the same thing because we think we are helping them." — Marina [29:51]
• "No 50 year old should be dating a 15 year old. So normalized. And I'm like, guys, this man has nothing that he can relate to a 15, 16, 17, even an 18 year old." — Marina [33:10]
• "I still think he's very much alive. He's very well protected. He is important. I think he's out there." — Marina, on Epstein’s alleged suicide [48:17]
• "There is life after abuse. Do not think that there isn't...life is even better than what you think." — Marina [52:35]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:36] Host welcomes Marina, mutual recognition of courage
• [04:15] Marina describes immigration and early family life
• [06:36] The beginning and escalation of stepfather’s abuse
• [10:23] Challenges with police, systemic disbelief
• [14:17] Entry into workforce, economic hardship
• [15:07] Introduction to Epstein via friend, grooming process
• [17:22] First observations at Epstein’s house (photos of powerful people)
• [21:20] First "massage" encounter, abuse details
• [29:20] Discussion of immigration, desperation, and grooming
• [33:01] Commentary on cultural normalization of abuse
• [37:26] Recovery of repressed trauma memories; realization of rape
• [41:14] Recollections of Ghislaine Maxwell
• [45:05] Congress, public hearings, demands for broader accountability
• [47:19] Marina’s message: refuse to let trauma steal your power
• [48:17] Marina’s belief that Epstein is alive
• [49:06] What justice should look like for survivors
• [52:15] Affirmation: "there is life after abuse," guest farewells

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Final Messages & Tone

This episode is raw and honest, balancing the pain of Marina's story with her resilience and determination to empower others. Kat and Marina maintain a tone of sisterhood, validation, and encouragement, offering practical hope to listeners who may be living through or healing from abusive situations. Both repeatedly stress the vital importance of breaking the silence.

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Resources for Listeners

• Survivors are urged to speak up and seek help—there are resources and hope, even if it takes time.
• Listeners are reminded that speaking out, no matter the opposition, is a path to healing and a way to help others.

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"There is life after abuse. Do not think that there isn’t. There is life." – Marina [52:35]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Marina. Welcome to Cut on the Loose. It's such an honor having you here.

[A]

Thank you for having me. The honor is mine.

[B]

I have to say, you probably don't know my story, but I was in a very abusive marriage for 15 years, and I know how difficult it is for a woman to speak up and tell her truth. So the first thing I want to say is that I really admire you, and I think you're so brave and so courageous because I know it's not easy to tell your story.

[A]

It is very hard to tell, you know, anyone that has been through abuse, it's very hard to tell their story. But I think it's important for women like us to continue talking about it so that we empower other women and men as well, you know, to talk about their abuse. I think it's something that, unfortunately, it is not talked about so often, so it's something that we definitely need to continue talking about.

[B]

Yes. Bravo. I'm so proud of you. And I completely agree. And that's the goal with my show. I'm hoping that a woman out there that listens to us today and they're still going through what you and I went through, and obviously in different capacities, I hope they. They find the strength to leave to seek help. And there's so much shame, right. That surrounds. It's funny because with women and you tell me your experience, many times we are embarrassed. Like, we feel we are doing something wrong and people are gonna judge us. They're not gonna judge the. The abuser. They're gonna judge us. Was that how you felt?

[A]

I feel like everyone does that, right? It's. It's insane. It's insane. Everyone's like, I think even in a marriage, because I also wasn't an abusive marriage for 17 years. So it's like, people were like, but why did you stay? Like, you have your dependency. Like, you owned your own things. Like, why did you stay? I'm like, because it's something so hard to explain, Right. When you have gone through trauma in your past, the cycle just continues and you start to normalize that cycle. And then when you realize at one point, you know, if it begins with healing, with therapy or anything that you decide to do that is something different that brings you some sort of eye opener, you start to go, wait a minute, this is absolutely not normal. I am worthy way more than this. I deserve way more. I, I demand respect. I deserve respect. I deserve love. And that's when you take, you know, the power, you know, and say, I'm walking away from this. Doesn't matter what situation it is. So it is very hard. And I know that some women are in situations where they are scared to leave because their partners is, is threatening them. But we have to be thankful that here in the United States of America, we have resources to help, you know, women and men. Unfortunately, some other countries don't have those resources, and, you know, we have to take advantage of that. So I hope to empower all the women that have been through abuse and are going through abuse.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And never stop speaking up, because not only helps you, but it helps the next person that's going to get into this, you know, really messed up relationship or friendship even. Sometimes people get into abusive friendships.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And I love your attitude. And of course, when I heard about your story, number one, like everybody else in the world, when I, I found out about Jeffrey Epstein and all his crimes, I was in absolute shock. Mostly and foremost because of the age of the, the, the victims. And then when I, I found out about you, I'm like, oh, my God, she was so young and being Brazilian, I'm Brazilian. We are both immigrants. Your story really touched my heart. And then when I saw some other interviews that you did in videos and how strong you are and how open you are to talking about him, like, I got this woman because she's right up my alley. So let's rewind your story for people that don't know you, for my audience that doesn't know you. You were born in Brazil and then you came to the United States very young with your mom, correct?

[A]

Well, first my mother came when I was 7, and then I arrived to New York when I was eight years old.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yes. So you were, you were a child

[B]

and you, you did describe in a lot of other interviews you're having this really tough upper bringing. You're being a victim of, of abuse in your own home. Right. Rewind us a little bit. Like, in a nutshell, before you met Jeffrey.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, of course. So when I moved to New York, you know, and expectations of just being with my mom and just being with her and just being so close with her. You know, us Brazilians, we're very attached to our mothers. I think both son and daughters were like, I don't know what it is, but we are glued. We're glued to our moms. And I just wanted to be with my mom. So my mom came to New York. She had met her boyfriend at the time and which became my stepfather. And just a couple months in after, you know, living with them, my mom had a night schedule she worked at. Seemed like it was a building and she was cleaning. And my stepfather was a driver. He was an illegal driver. So he would pick up people in the airport and you know, sometimes people would tell him, hey, you know, there's a customer there. So his schedule was crazy. He would come in and out of all hours and he just started to put on porn on TV and cover my face with a blanket. And then I started to peek through the blanket because as an eight year old I was very curious like any other kid. I feel like as adults we are curious people, right? Like you tell me, hey, don't look over there, but that person and you, right away your first instinct is to look, you know. So he started to. I started to peek through the blanket and then the blanket just came off one day and then it was like something was happening in, you know, in the porn my stepfather started doing to me. And next thing you know, like, it was like normal for us to like, for me to get sexually abused by my stepfather. Like I had no clue what was happening. I just know that something was happening to my body. It made my body feel good, but I didn't know what was happening. And then fast forwarding to when I was ten and a half, my mother had, you know, was got pregnant with my sister. She, she, you know, had my sister. We moved into another apartment which was a four bedroom. And at that point, you know, we, me and my stepfather were just, you know, he was just sexually abusing me. And it was like, what the hell?

[B]

You know, I want to stop you for a second because I want everybody to picture, if you can, that this is not the Marina that we see today. This is not a consenting adult. This was a child at home, right? That to me that's like, it's so beyond sad and absurd to think that that happens to any, any, any child in this. Any happens so much.

[A]

There are sick people in this world, you Know, and that's the sad part. And that's why we empower women to talk about their abuse. Because the perpetrator does not stop. It only ends when you speak and you get the authorities involved. You know, I think that's what's the main important here. I know that we want to save ourselves, but we got to save the next person. We are all humans united. We are strong. And that is something that I say all the time. Like, same.

[B]

Oh, my God. You know, I say that all the time.

[A]

Us being, you know, separated, we are not going to be strong. They are going to attack us, and they will win. So we need to stand united. So, you know, when. When my mom had her, my sister. My sister was in the crib one day, and me and my stepfather were in the bed, and he was, like, rolling me around, but in a very sexual way. I can't really remember. And my mom walked in the door, and he threw me off the bed. And he threw me off the bed. I was confused because I was like, what are we doing? You know, like, why are you throwing me off the bed? And my mom, you know, brought him to the other room. There was a screaming match. She came to me and she was like, listen, I know what's been happening. Never asked me what. Never asked me for how long. She just assumed right away. Yeah, yeah. You know, and then she was like, it's done from here. And it didn't end there. You know, it only got worse. Like, he then would sexually abuse me, then I would tell my mom, then he would stop. He. And, you know, in the cycle.

[B]

It was a cycle, right?

[A]

And then it got to the point where whenever I would tell her, he would then physically abuse me for telling her, and then sexually abused me on top. And then I just had to let it happen. You know, many nights I would stay in my bed and just praying like, oh, my God, please, I just want to have one good night of sleep. You know, because I started to understand that this was really not okay to happen. I mean, he was almost in his 50s. I was 8 until 12 years old, you know, so it was something. I think it was one of my worst abuses. And I've had many abuses after that, you know, so finally, at 12 and a half or 12 years old, we had a roommate. We used to rent out two of the other rooms, and he was sexually abusing her. So she saw me in Burger King one day after school, and she asked me, hey, do you want to go to the precinct? Like, I know it's been happening to you? And I was like 12 years old in seventh grade, and I jumped up because I was already arguing with my mom, like, hey, are we leaving? Like, this man keeps doing this to me and you keep leaving the house. You keep leaving me home knowing that this man is doing this. Like, what the hell? I was like literally cursing at my mom at like 11, 10 years old. I was like, so. I was so like mature for my age, you know, because of all the things, of course. And then, you know, we went to the precinct and the police officers did not believe me. They were like, you know, if you speak, you know, don't forget your stepfather's going to jail. He'll be going away for a very long time. This are serious accusations. So I started to minimize my abuse. I started to say, oh, he's only been abusing me for two years. Oh, he only touched me here. I got scared, you know, and it goes back to, this is what happens with the authorities. They start to question all women and men about their abuse. And then people get scared and then they start to scare them with like, what's going to happen with the perpetrator? We start to feel bad as humans and then we start to minimize our abuse, which is not.

[B]

No. And that's what I. Yeah, I do want to mention that a lot of women don't speak up because many times nobody's going to believe them. Like I said, it's unbelievable that the stigma is so many times in the victim. It was my case for, for the longest time. The few times that I try to mention that I was being severely abused at home, people wouldn't believe me because my husband was so successful and so good looking and so rich. They were like, what the you talking about? You know, and it happens to so many people. I think most of us agree that starting a business can feel honestly terrifying. All the what ifs start creeping in. What if I fail? What if no one buys? What if I don't even know where to start. I remember feeling exactly like that when I launched my body positivity brand, Girly Alamode. But then I found Shopify and everything changed. Shopify made it so easy to actually build my brand. They have hundreds of beautiful ready to use templates. So your store instantly looks elevated and on brand without needing to be a tech expert. And it's not just about design. Shopify really is all in one business partner. From managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns, they handle all, all of it. One of my biggest fears was, what if nobody finds my brand. But Shopify helps you reach your audience with super simple email and social media campaigns.

[A]

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[B]

got 24, seven award winning customer support. Like you're never doing this alone. The best part, everything lives in one place. Inventory, payments, analytics. No juggling a million platforms. It just makes running your business so much smoother. So you've been sitting around with an idea, wondering, what if it's time to turn those what ifs into real sales. Sign up for your $1 a month trial today at shopify.com cat that's shopify.com Kat K a-t shopify.com cat But I, I won't include so much of your story here. You went to the police, they didn't believe you. So what happened next?

[A]

They went, they picked up my stepfather at home. And then we came back home and my mom was so distraught about the situation. She was so. And not like for me, she was upset that he went to jail.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And she was picking up his stuff and she was crying. So I went to my room and in my head I'm like, oh my God, this is the first night I get to sleep at peace. Because when this was happening to me, I was like trying to figure out ways how to kill my stepfather. I was so upset. I was so angry. I was so frustrated that my mom wasn't doing anything. And you know, obviously I lied to the police. I told them my mom did not know anything. I was just so smart at 12 years old, I don't know why. I didn't want to lose my mom still after, you know, we're kids, you know.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And so how long did you stay home? When did you leave?

[A]

So I stayed home and that's when the working process. And I was already working in a real estate office just a few hours, you know.

[B]

You didn't have money, you were like just struggling, correct?

[A]

We were, you know, when my stepfather was around, we were middle class.

[B]

Good.

[A]

You know, getting by. I mean, you know, nothing outrageous, nothing crazy, you know, public school, just exactly what I need, the necessities, nothing more than that.

[B]

And then I don't know if we mentioned this was in New York City, correct?

[A]

Yes, this was in New York. Astoria, Queens. Yeah.

[B]

So when did you. So you're working at this crazy young age. You're living in this insanely toxic environment. How did you get. What happened? Who introduced you to Jeffrey?

[A]

So I started to work at that, I was working already in that real estate. I started to work there a Little more. I started to go there after school. Then I started to work with my mom in a catering hall. And. And that worked out pretty well, but we were getting paid almost $6.75 an hour. And then it went up to a little bit more and I was like, this is enough. So, you know, people would always find me jobs. I started to work in a nightclub at one point, and that's when I met Jeffrey. I started to hang out with a lot of Brazilian people towards the end of eighth grade, which I was still 13. And that summer before I turned 14, one of my girlfriends who always managed to know people and get me into trouble because after my stepfather went to jail, I just became totally rebellious. You know, my mom was very sure. My mom kept calling me like a vagabunda, which, you know, we know what that means.

[B]

Like a slut. Yeah, that's a very painful, heavy word, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially if your mom is calling you that. That's. That hurts.

[A]

It hurts. My mom hurt me a lot. You know, she blamed me a lot for my stepfather going to jail. And then this girl who I knew very well, who were very close, you know, she was not the best thing for me, but she's like, hey, listen, like, I know this man. He's super rich, he's super wealthy. He can pay you for half an hour to do a massage. However, you know, me and this girl, we always had a thing. She always got me into things, but I always. I always had this thing where I didn't want men to touch me. So anything that we did, it always had to do with something like we were either abusing men and they were paying us for it. Which is terrible to say, but that was something that she knew. She had that connection. But then she had this connection with Jeffrey Epstein. She knew my rule about, like, men touching me. So when we got to Jeffrey Epstein's house, I was only thinking, I'm going to go there, do a half an hour massage.

[B]

And I want to. Sorry, Marina. I want to keep reminding people you are a kid. Right. So whatever you're thinking and believing and doing, you're not like a mature, properly developed, functioning adult. Because we don't know what the hell is going on when you're 13, even if you think you do. Right. So you're getting into this world and everything, but you're a pre teen.

[A]

13. I have a 13 year old. She absolutely has no idea what she's got.

[B]

Yeah, and she's not living in the chaos that you were, which makes it a million Times worse.

[A]

Okay, so even the little decisions that she makes, I'm like, oh, my God, you know, like, we gotta talk about this girlfriend, you know, so, you know,

[B]

get to this guy's apartment in New

[A]

York City, his mansion. He had a huge mansion. I was so amazed by it. I was so wild. I was like, wow, this girl, like, out of all the people she has introduced me to, this guy is definitely somewhat important. You know, we get there. I see all these crazy pictures with all these prominent people on his office when it is also his waiting room.

[B]

Can you. Do you remember who are the prominent people you saw in the pictures?

[A]

I saw Bill Clinton. I don't know why, but I think Jeffrey Epstein really was obsessed with Bill Clinton. He had a picture with Bill Clinton. He had a. A picture with President Bush. He had a picture with Prince Andrews. A lot of celebrities, which I can't, you know, I don't want to mention the celebrities because I don't think they're really much involved on it. There were just people that he knew, and maybe some of them were involved.

[B]

Don't you think it's bizarre? That's because normal people, I guess, doesn't matter how rich they are. Usually we put photos of our relatives at home. But even if you love someone, if they're your bestie, like, I know a million celebrities and actors, whatever. I'm not gonna put a picture of them in my home. Don't you think that's. That says a lot now? Looking backwards, of course, at the time, I'm sure it didn't compute in your mind, but looking backwards, don't you think that's, like, crazy behavior?

[A]

Well, I think Jeffrey really. The. The thing is, Jeffrey is a manipulator. And he had one job and one job only. He didn't have a wife and a kid because I had asked him, because I seen this girl that he always had pictures up and he had pictures of with Ghislaine. But at the time I didn't know, and I thought that was his wife, you know, but it wasn't his wife. So a lot of people, you know, us today, now we're like, oh, he's just a person that wanted to make sure that everybody knew he had power and he knew people. So it is weird. But when you think of it as a. You know, when you think of it like as a manipulator and you have a job to do here, and you want to set the record straight, he did the right thing. He did. He did exactly what he wanted to portray. You Know, he didn't want to be, like, a family man. It's like my divorce lawyer now. When I went to go look for a divorce lawyer, I was like, I don't want a big firm with like 50 lawyers. I want a firm that has an older man. He has his grandkids on the. On the.

[B]

On his.

[A]

On his desk. He has his wife, you know, his daughters. And. Exactly is what I found. And that tells me what? That he is a family man and he's going to be by my side on this divorce. Now, if I went into a law firm where the guy has pictures with the mayor from. Sure. Where I live, it tells you what? That he really doesn't care. He cares about money. He cares about power. He wants you to know that he has connections.

[B]

So, yeah, when you're 13 and you get into the situation, you don't know these things. Right. Because your brain doesn't compute. Any of that.

[A]

I was just like, he knows people. Wow, this is crazy.

[B]

You know, and you show up there and. And then how did he treat. He's sitting in this massage table waiting for you.

[A]

Well, the ma. The maid came to get us. We got into the elevator. We went upstairs. It opens up to this beautiful hallway, which I always remember Jeffrey Epstein in his library. Once I started to wander off his house. There were certain parts of his house that almost reminded me of Beauty and the Beast. But my therapist told me that was just the child in me, you know, because he had this beautiful library, which was kind of like in a gold. Like he had some gold features on it. So really remind. And get. Like the stairs. It really reminded me of Beauty and the Beast. So this maid comes and gets us, brings us up to the third floor. There's sketches of naked women. There's a statue. We walk into the massage room. There's a massage table on the ceiling. There's like these beautiful fake, like 3D or 2D clouds, I think it was at the time. I don't know what it was, but it looked like the sky. He had these heavy curtains covering the wall, which he had then covered, which was a window, but he had blocked it. And then put a curtain on top of it, very dark. And. And, you know, when we got up there, he comes in in a robe, and he's like, hi, my name is Jeffrey. And I said, hi, my name is Marina. He goes, I've heard great things about you. And, you know, he laid down. We had a great conversation. He was super nice. He seemed super interested in who I was. And then he turned around and at that point, at that point I already had taken my shirt off because that's what this girl said to me. She just.

[B]

So you take your shirt off and you're wearing a bra.

[A]

I'm wearing a bra. She was like, it's just like being a bikini. And it seems so.

[B]

But this like in his 50s.

[A]

He's in his 50s, yeah.

[B]

So this is a way, way older man and you are this tiny little teenager in your bra in his house.

[A]

But you know, I also want to remind people, and this is like just really quick a reminder. Like, my daughter turned around to me a few days ago and says to me, oh my God, mom. Like, she has this guidance counselor who she absolutely loves. And we went on a cruise, me and my daughter and my girlfriend and her daughter. But this guidance counselor happened to be there. I've never met her in person. So I'm walking down the hall, my daughter, you know, because the cruise, you let these girls, you know, you let the teenagers go. They go to the teen club. So my daughter comes up to me, she's like, mom, Miss, you know, is here. And I'm like, oh, I'm thinking, because she said she's my age. So I'm like, where is this, like, where's this teacher from? Because she also has cheer classes, she has tutor. She's like, from school. Mom, it's my guidance counselor. I told you about her. And I'm like, oh, hey, how are you? And I walk away and I tell my girlfriend, I'm like, oh my God, that woman is like in her late 50s. She does not look like in her late 30s like me. So my daughter is going to be 13. We do not process right. We do not know the difference of like 30, 40, 50.

[B]

Oh, no, I'm sure. That's what I'm saying. You're like in this innocence and you're trying to make a few bucks and they. Your friend said he was gonna pay like 300 bucks. Correct. For a massage?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's a fortune for a 13 year

[A]

old girl, especially back then.

[B]

Back then, yeah.

[A]

2002.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of money even now. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Especially I think there are a lot of. I want to pause for one second because I think a lot of. There are a lot of aggravating points to your story. Number one, the fact that, you know, you're an immigrant. I think maybe only immigrants understand the pain and the difficulty of being in a different country. And you are a much more vulnerable prey to Predators, because they know that you are vulnerable. They know you're not sitting in a lot of money. They know you need money.

[A]

You're not country. You don't have a Social Security. You do not have any rights in this country if you do not have the Social Security.

[B]

You came to meet your mom here. Yeah. And you were, you didn't come with a green card, you just came to wing it.

[A]

I came, I came with a green card. I legally came, but I overstayed, you know, and that was a problem. That was the reason why my mom didn't want to leave my stepfather. It really limited my access to getting a job. Even though at 14, people have to understand people back then and now they are allowed to work at 14. You go to some parts in Florida here, there are 14, 15 year olds that are working over the time of two hours. They are.

[B]

There's still trouble, but okay. But whether they are allowed or not,

[A]

let's be honest, Hours a day. It's two hours a day.

[B]

No kid should be going hustling like you are.

[A]

Hustling. Yes. We're talking about working in public. These are, these are regular okay.

[B]

Jobs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We would hope that no kid has to go through while you are going hustling all over town to make a

[A]

few extra bucks, looking for different venues to work. Like, where should I work next? And just jumping around from places. So he comes upstairs, he's super nice, he's talking to me. He's laying down. My bra is on. And I'm just talking to him and I'm like, this is, this is pretty easy. Like, this is a gig, you know, that she got me. And he turns around and now that he had a towel, and now the towel exposes his private area. And I was just like, oh, okay, maybe he's going to get up. And he went to go, he turned to me and he goes, can you, can you take off your bra? And I froze because now I'm not expecting this. And I was like in my head, I didn't even, I couldn't even talk. I was like, like, no. Like, I. I was like, so, you know, like, surprised. The girl's across from me and I look at her like, like, what's happening? And then he goes, he goes to lean in to touch my, my boob. And I just like, put his hand down. And I said, I'm not comfortable. The girl now walks to the other side, she's aggravated with me, and she's asking me like, what's wrong with you? And I'm Like, I'm not comfortable. And I'm so stuck because now she's moved on to Jeffrey Epstein. They start to go at it really, really deep with so at it.

[B]

Having sex.

[A]

They didn't have sex. What happened was Jeffrey Epstein had spat on his hand and started to aggressively stroke his. His private area. And she was pinching his, like, nipple.

[B]

And he's masturbating in front of you girls, and she's helping him in front of me.

[A]

And I'm just like, yeah. I'm standing there in complete shock because I'm not expecting this. And the way that Jeffrey Epstein was. He was so, like, violent with his private area, if that makes sense. Like, he was so disrespectful to it. Like, he was, like, up to the point where he was like. I think. Because later on I found out he had so many orgasms throughout the day that I think it made it hard for him to orgasm. So it looked like he was having a problem getting to the climax point. So it was like, he was so eager and he was so, like, his face, I just, I can't take it out of my head. And she's pinching his nipple and kind of moving forward, and he's, like, kissing his neck, and he's grabbing her with one hand and he's like.

[B]

And you're just standing there because you don't know what to do.

[A]

Standing there for like a good, like, eight minutes. And then he climaxed. He grabbed. He had. He always had a little towel next to his. His massage bed. And he had a special lotion. Even though he had hundreds of lotions, expensive lotions, he never used any of them. And we left there. The girl was like, you know, I, you know, I put my shirt on, she got dressed, we left out.

[B]

Wait, wait. So. So he comes and they stop. And then did he. They pay who?

[A]

Oh, yeah. So he. He gives her the money, and he

[B]

gives her a bunch of cash.

[A]

He gives her a whole bunch of cash. And he turned around to me and he goes, I'll be seeing you soon. I know that you weren't comfortable today, but it just, it's. It'll take some time. And I'm waiting. I'm willing to wait. And I was just quiet. I was like, it was nice to meet you too. And we left. And when we left, she gave me the $300. Like, she kind of, like, stopped, like, was like, here. She's like, I don't know why. She's like, I don't know what the. Is your problem. And I was like, damn, girl. I was like, you. You didn't tell me any of this. I feel like you're so clear about other situations. She's like, listen, Marina, you know that I've introduced you to other people. This guy right here, he's the guy, he's the man, he's going to introduce you. You're from Astoria, you're from Brazil, you're an immigrant. You're barely making at home. Like, be thankful that I introduced you to this guy. Anybody would be thankful that I would have brought them here because now we have to go back on the mindset of an immigrant, right? An immigrant girl. We have immigrant girls that come. And I've come across them. They've lived in my house because I lived it by myself. At one point they came to my house, they had nowhere to stay. Parents give them a thousand, $2,000. They're like, go babysit, go start school, go start an English school. It doesn't work that way. And then when they do get a job, the parents want them to send money back. The parents aren't asking what they're doing. And these girls are struggling in America because they're just trying to make it. And a lot of them were too young to go and be a stripper, so they did the opposite, the very wrong thing. Boys that came from other countries sold drugs.

[B]

It's very unfortunate that men such as Epstein take advantage all of that and they take advantage of, of the, the fragile situation. And I think you need to stop blaming these victims, like calling them names because again, these are kids, you were a kid and desperation and, and the world just presents the situations. And I know most girls would do it and would take it because they don't know what else to do.

[A]

I just had this conversation with the survivor because one of Jeffrey Epstein's secretary was giving out green cards to girls that would go to him. And I said to her, I said, babe, I didn't have a green card, I would have done it. I said, and let me tell you, if I was the secretary, I probably would have been offering these girls the same thing because we think we are helping them. I said, just like we thought we were helping other girls when we brought them to Jeffrey. They needed money, they needed to survive. They wanted to get out of their fucked up homes. I said, we thought we were helping them. I said, how are they any different? These girls that were worked for, for Jeffrey Epstein as a secretary, they were told when to eat, when to breathe, when to, when to leave. It was worse abuse than we did. And they had also to bring about six to eight girls. If he was in New Mexico, Paris, wherever he was, they had to make sure he had six to eight girls lined up.

[B]

He had to solicit girls for him, like your girl, like your girlfriend took you there. So how did you end up going, so this was your first time. So after that, how did you end up going back through the same girl or who contacted.

[A]

Well, she called me a couple weeks later. I was absolutely sure I was not going back. Me and my mom were struggling and my sister were struggling so much. At this point, we had rented out all the other rooms and we were living in one bedroom. I want to make this clear because my mom has heard some of the podcasts. She's like, we've never lived in one a bedroom. And I'm like, no, we've never lived in one bedroom.

[B]

I'm going to say something to you. To be honest. I, I, I don't think most people like me. I don't really care about your mom's, you know, description after everything you've been through. I don't care what she would ever say that, that anybody is interested in listening other than because it's your story, it's your narrative.

[A]

That's what I told her. I said, it's my story. She's like, please don't mention me or my other person, meaning my stepfather.

[B]

It's a big start of your story.

[A]

I'm going to mention it.

[B]

I wanted to talk.

[A]

You guys are the main event of this, of this whole thing.

[B]

But, yeah, you know, by the way, I'm very proud of you because same thing happened to me. One of my relatives called me the other day, is like, why are you mentioning your mom? Why are you telling the world she's an alcoholic? Like, because it's a part of our story. We have the right to tell our story. So if there is any victim of abuse out there listening, don't let anybody tell you to shut up in any. Even if it's a relative, you have every right in the world to speak up and tell your truth, your story.

[A]

You know, Kat, when I wanted to break my silence, and I did, and then when it landed in Brazil, all my family in Brazil, and now they're with me, they were like, oh, my God, nobody's gonna give a about your stories. You know how much abuse happens in Brazil? I said, I know that it happens a lot more in Brazil than it happens here and over there. So, so corrupted. You think we're corrupted here in America, forget about South America is beyond that. Right? India, India, India is even worse. There are people raping little boys and little girls in the street and nobody does absolutely nothing. So when I speak in, in India, I have so much love. When I speak in Brazil, I get so much hate. I get so much hate. And the whole point is to change that.

[B]

Yeah, but don't let it stop you. Yeah. Good for you.

[A]

You're very strong. It only encourages me to do more because we need to shift that culture in Brazil.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

ASAP. No 50 year old should be dating a 15 year old. So normalized. And I'm like, guys, this man has nothing. Like nothing, nothing that he can relate to. A 15, 16, 17, even an 18 year old.

[B]

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[A]

Premier hosts on verbo deliver quality vacation rental stays with fast responses and clear instructions so you don't have to worry about about surprises. I asked our host a question about the house last night and he got back to me super quick. See, that's the premier host move right there. I wish I had a premier group chat.

[B]

I asked them where we should have

[A]

dinner last night and they left me on read. I know you saw it. It says it. Classic group chat move. Don't walk into a surprise book a top rated verbo. Stay with a premier host if you know you verbo.

[B]

So two weeks later, this girl calls you and you're struggling with your mom. You're living in this house packed with people renting out rooms packed with people

[A]

eating little noodles, a cup, whatever they were. We were barely eating food. We were barely making it through. And I'm like, I'm gonna go back. This guy is really going to help me. So I went back. He was very nice. He did not try anything. He did not try to ask me to touch me, to remove my bra. He was so nice. So I started to trust him.

[B]

So you just gave him a massage?

[A]

Yeah, he talked to me. The girl came and he was super nice. I was like, oh. I was like, he's going to see that I'm different than her and he's going to help me in a complete different way. He's going to get to know who I am. You know, maybe he's going to help me with, you know, I was doing ballet at the time. I really wanted to take ballet to another, you know, jazz, tap. I wanted to take it to another level. I was like, and even then, maybe I can be his secretary. I could work for him, you know, and within time, it was just like, take off your bra. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, I know him. He's.

[B]

He kept going back and he was paying you 300 bucks each time you went back, or did he give you more and more and more?

[A]

No, he just 300 bucks. But if I needed. But if I needed money, if I had something to pay, I used to call up secretary, like, hey, listen, I need $600 for this bill. And I would go by his office and I would pick it up. He would help me.

[B]

So you had a. You had a. A line of access to him. They gave you a number to call?

[A]

Yes, it was his secretary. It was never straight to him. It was his secretary. And he would call me back. Or sometimes it would, you know, like, just, he'll call right back.

[B]

And then this relationship obviously developed into you guys having sex?

[A]

Yes, he did. You know, and I kept saying that too. I was like, you know, the thing is, I didn't remember that he raped me, right? Like, I didn't Remember that? Because trauma is so beyond that, what we think, and it really does its job. And I think just about two years ago or a year and a half ago, I went, well, actually a year ago, because it's about to be Virginia's vigilance schedule right now in Washington that we're gonna go. We're going to have her memorial a year late. You know, a year of her. Her passing.

[B]

Virginia, by the way, for those of you guys who don't know, is the victim that she very sadly took her own life. Right.

[A]

Committed, fought for us all the way, and is here with us in spirit. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Virginia Godfrey. So at Virginia Godfrey's, I started to hear all the other survivors talk about how they were raped and all these things. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, these women went through hell. So I came back home, one of my girlfriends who knows Jeffrey Epstein has gone there. She's a Jane Doe. I started to tell her. I'm like, oh, my God. Jeffrey Epstein raped all these women. Why didn't. Why. Why didn't he do that to us? Like, that is so up. Like, I can't believe this happened to these girls. I'm so distraught. I'm so sad. The memorial was beautiful. She's been through so much, Regina, because they spoke a little about her, and I got to meet the survivors and hear their stories. She seriously goes on the phone, she goes, hey, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm okay. I'm like, I'm just very upset about these women getting raped by Jeffrey Epstein. He would never do that to us. Now, Jeffrey Epstein has used toys. He's done some horrific things that I, in my mind, can remember just really being aggressive, the way he touched us, and just, like, thinking that he was like this lover man, and he was like, completely the opposite, you know? And she turns around to me, she goes, I really need to tell you something. She's like, you know, like, jeffrey raped you a whole bunch of times, and when he did rape you, he would call, like, three or four of us in the room and ask you to jump on top of him. And he would tell us, like, this is the way that you're supposed to me and be a good girl. This is the way that you're gonna get ahead. And I couldn't remember that. I couldn't remember that I had another survivor. And then I was like, no, no, no, no, no. So I called my other friend who was in the room. Supposedly, that's what she told me. I Call her up. I'm like, hey, you know, I'm explaining her little thing. She goes, yeah, that sounds like what it is. He's like, jeffrey used you as, like, his little doll. Like, this is how you do things. This is how, when you listen to me, you get good. You get a good outcome. So I couldn't remember that he raped me, you know? And for the longest time, I kept saying sex. He had sex with me. My therapist was like, you didn't have sex with him because you are not like an adult. And he's an adult, and you guys are having consensual sex. This man is 15 years old. Having sex with a 15 year old, like, that is insane. You need to stop thinking that you had sex with him. He raped you. You know, whether you thought it was okay or not. It's not okay. You know?

[B]

Oh, my goodness. It's. I think it's the most cruel, crazy. I don't even have words for it. Form of child abuse. Yes. It's. It hurts to hear it. It hurts to think that that's such a young girl, especially after everything you've been through in your own home. You were so broken. And to think that you fall in the hands. To think that you fall in the hands of a monster that does that to. To young, young girls and takes advantage of them, basically buying you and your family fear and your desperation to make money is like, h I. I wish I had words to.

[A]

To.

[B]

To describe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, to.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I wish I had something nice to say to you, but I'm like, I get so speechless when I hear stories like that. It's so painful. It's so painful.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Did you ever meet his longtime assistant, Julain? Some people say just Lane. Some people say Ghis.

[A]

Yeah, right. Which way is the right way? Do I even care how to say her name?

[B]

No.

[A]

She's that woman, right?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. That monster. I mean, I would say, because she was literally soliciting girls for him.

[A]

Yeah. And she was. You know, from what the girls told me, she was worse. I only had one interaction with Ghislaine, and I couldn't remember. I could. I didn't know who Ghislaine was because when we entered the room, me and this former model who Jeffrey was deeply in love with, he asked me to join that day. And we had gone there many times, and he would ask me to leave the room. But that day he asked me to join. And when we joined, he was like, we're going to go into the bedroom today. And I Was like, didn't think anything of it, you know, and we get into the bedroom and we are just. I guess he's fooling around with us. He's doing some stuff. And Ghislaine walked in and he says, my friend will be joining today. Now, being 15 or 16, I can't remember. I just thought it was like a young girl. I didn't know. I just, I'm not thinking at that time. And she, you know, they both use a lot of toys. They raped me. And this other girl, well, she jumped

[B]

in bed with you guys.

[A]

Yes, she did, with me and another Jane Doe and Jeffrey Epstein. But I did not know it was Ghislaine because I did not get introduced to Ghislaine. So when Ghislaine started to come out on the news, I was like, ah. I was like, that's the woman that was with us in bed, you know, so that experience. And again, because I guess trauma does its job. I forgot about all the details. So sometimes I find it like a good thing, but sometimes I find it bad because when you have the, the first lady asking us to do a public hearing, it's very hard, you know, about that.

[B]

What did you think about that bizarre speech? I have a vibe when someone is trying really, really hard to defend themselves. Like that opposite. Exactly. Because if I didn't do anything wrong, I'm like, I don't give a what you say about me. I know I wasn't there. I don't care.

[A]

Say what you want. I know what I know exactly.

[B]

Right. You know your truth. But I think when you stand and you're so nervous about it, and then there's a million photos of her all over the place with. I don't even like to say his name because it makes me want to throw up. Trump, what did you think about it as a victim when you saw that,

[A]

you know, our phones were blowing up? All of, all of the survivor's phone. And I myself did not take any. I did not take any interviews that day. I needed a time to process and figure out what and how this benefit the Trump family. Because in the end of the day, we've been with Trump for a long time and he does only to benefit him. And I really had time. So I came out with a video on my page and I was, I had my bun. I was all messy and. And I was like, so pissed. I was like, yeah, I. I really told, you know, I told them. I told everybody off. I was like, what? Where did you think this was a good idea? What difference will it make if we tell our stories publicly, under oath, and only then it'll be the truth. What are you talking about? FBI files 302s pictures are not real. We tell our stories in these podcasts sometimes. I've done the three hour podcast

[B]

and you are. You're one of the few ones. And I know, I see. That's why I said I wanna. If there is anything in the world I can do to help you amplify your voice, I'm here because I think this is so important. You are the ones that have to speak up. Like you said, it's the only way you stop such crimes from happening again. It's the only way you take your power back and you speak on behalf of millions of women that are going through the same thing. But she said something. Oh, I think the victims need to go to Congress. La, la, la.

[A]

But you've already done that. We've been to. We've been to Congress before. I broke my silence in September. Six of us sat there and told Congress our story. And do you know how hard it was for each victim to do it? Because I got to tell you, when we sit in podcasts and say it, we don't have such a hard time. But when we were sitting in front of these important people who are in a different bracket, and I know that they've probably been through some trauma in their life, we just don't see it like that. We don't visualize it like that. That was.

[B]

Be honest, Marina. I know a lot of those people are looking at you guys again.

[A]

They are crazy.

[B]

Why you weren't like what you did voluntarily. But let's. Let's remind everyone it's a child. A child should not be going there in the first place, period.

[A]

We were all misguided. We all had a lot. We wouldn't have a little broken home. We had up homes. Like some of these stories that I hear from these women, I'm like, holy. I thought I had a really terrible upgrade upbringing. I just hear everybody's story and we always like, oh my God. We always got to think like there is somebody out there that went through worse than we did. I always remind people, don't forget what you are going through. God only gave it to you because you can handle, because you couldn't handle the next person's problem. So take that amen as a lesson in life and you will surpass it. It is a process, process. But once you are on the other side and you look back and you go, oh, it did this to me so I can do this. Now you have to shape it into a positive way. And I think that's the whole purpose of going through difficult times and having that process to reach a point in life and going. Understanding why you went through it and then shaping it into a different way. I think it's more important.

[B]

And in your case, thank goodness you were able to build a nice life for yourself. You have a daughter and I am. I think it's very admirable that you keep speaking up and repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating. So, you know, our bravo to you and you have such a beautiful smile. I think that.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You know, nobody was able to break your smile. And I think that and your strength, you know, and your strength now I can't stop now.

[A]

I'm not going to be sad about my past.

[B]

Yeah. Do not, on the contrary, get loud, be louder.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Now, your personal opinion. Do you really think he took his own life or do you think he was murdered? Just your opinion on that.

[A]

So I know Jeffrey for at least three years, right? Like, and I gotta tell you, just from like when we talked about his pictures. Like people usually have pictures of his family. Look how you already enter into his house. He's like power, money. Yeah, I am. I have the ability of control. You know, that's what he set the record straight. A man like that would never go down in history. You know, allowing someone to kill him, that's a sign of weakness. Like, it sounds like you can't control your own situation. And he would never go down as committing suicide. It's just not Jeffrey Epstein. I still think he's very much alive. He's very well protected. He is an important. I think he's out there.

[B]

Do you think that was all cover up to get him out of jail?

[A]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I don't think he's dead. I think he's very much alive. I think that, you know, he is looking at us and sometimes going like girls, like, you know, like, what are they doing? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think so.

[B]

What in for you? How do you feel would be the best, best possible outcome instead of getting some measure of justice for you and the other victims? Because I know like you said with him. Okay, just Lane, Ghislaine, whatever, she's in, in prison.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think that's good enough.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Do you feel anything in your heart that would give you, like, okay, I got justice.

[A]

You know, like when people ask me in the Past they're like, are you upset that he killed himself and didn't, you know, wasn't held accountable for what he did? And I said, no. I said, he's no longer going to hurt anybody. That man got indict indictment in 2008. Didn't stop him. He even did worse. He found a way. So abusers don't stop. Right. They just continue. Just find a way how to do it in a different way. I think I would be recipes and I don't wish anybody at death. But if he was no longer here with us or if I think he had beat the. If he was, he would have to be castrated of like his fingers and his private area. I think that's the only way in my head, I would be like at peace. But obviously that's not an option here. I think right now what justice really looks like to us is unfortunately is holding people accountable. There are people out there. Nobody's holding them accountable. Nobody's bringing them criminally charged. Yeah, it's nice that the first lady, you know, you know, if she wants to meet us and talk to us about her stories, that's fine, but if we're going, if I'm going, I don't want to speak for all the survivors because they all feel a little bit differently. If I'm going to testify under oath in a public hearing, I have no problem with it. But she has to promise that the other men that came out in the files will also do a public hearing and will also testify and we also get criminally charged. And then, and only then, the set of. Of of, you know, it will be put in the record that it is the truth and we will have accountability.

[B]

Good for you. Bravo. And. And I like to say, of course, when you speak up for, for legal purposes, you were Jane Doe, minor one. But I am really proud to be able to proud of you that we are putting a name, a name and a face to the victim because we don't want victims being called Jane, Jane. Because they're not Jane J. They're not like an unknown ghost. You are women that survived.

[A]

Humans. Humans, yes.

[B]

Women and humans that survived massive, massive abuse. And you are here to speak up. So, Marina Lacerda, congratulations for speaking out. Congratulations for not letting whatever happened to you destroy your life. You are very strong. You are very brave. I am insanely honored to be able to talk to you. I have goosebumps right now. This is why I do the show. I do the show because of women like you. Because I think by speaking up we give voice to other women. Don't stop. Good for you. Speak up. And if a relative, if anybody tells.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Say you. I'm gonna speak until my last breath. And I'm here for you forever. I'm sure we have a bond forever. So if there is anything I can ever do to help you, speak up. If you have other stories you want to tell, if you want to bring other girls, I have an open door for you guys forever and ever and ever.

[A]

Cat, this means so much to me to have this platform to allow us to speak it, you know, this amplifies our voice. This also helps other women, other men, to break their silence and to be strong. And to also remember, guys, never forget. You need to protect your peace. And you need to understand one thing. There is life after abuse.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do not think that there isn't. There is life. You go through a little healing process, and let me tell you, life is even better than what you think. So thank you for having me.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for having me. Thank you for helping me. Helping me amplify my.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Yes.

[A]

I, I. It's an absolute honor to be here. Really.

[B]

I'm sending you so much love. And listen, if you ever. Because you're in Florida, I'm in California. If you ever come my way, please let me know because I would love to meet you in person. And then we'll do another one.

[A]

Okay? We'll have a little confession with Ponji. Casual.

[B]

Oh, deal. Done and done.

[A]

Done.

[B]

I miss that. Moica Brigada. Milamur Moyo Brigada. Do mail. And I'll keep in. We'll keep in touch, and I'll keep putting videos and following your story. I'll talk.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[B]

Guys, be safe out there. And if you are going through any sort of abuse, there are ways to get help. Speak up. The first way, the first step to stop is speaking up. Right, Marina, speak up.

[A]

100.

[B]

Thank you, my love. Guys, be safe, and I'll see you again very soon. Thank you.