MARRIAGE LEASE - A NEW CONCEPT with AUTHOR FANY ROJAS

Summary

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Kat on the Loose – “Marriage Lease: A New Concept” with Author Fanny Rojas

Podcast: Kat on the Loose
Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Fanny Rojas
Date: August 21, 2024
Theme: Exploring a radical new alternative to traditional marriage: the “Marriage Lease”

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Episode Overview

In this lively and unfiltered episode, host Kat Zammuto sits down with her longtime friend Fanny Rojas, author of "Marriage Lease: A New Concept." Together, they pull back the curtain on Fanny’s personal journey through love, heartbreak, and self-empowerment after a major breakup—and how these experiences led her to develop the concept of the “marriage lease.” Their conversation delves deep into modern relationship challenges, the fear of commitment, the value of trust and respect, and why a time-limited, customizable relationship contract may be a game-changer for couples today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin: Kat & Fanny’s Friendship and Fanny’s Relationship Background

[03:00–08:10]

• Kat and Fanny reminisce about their initial meeting in Miami years ago, which involved some social awkwardness and cultural misunderstandings—particularly around jealousy and possessiveness that can be prominent in Latin culture.
• Fanny recounts her relationship with “Jeff,” describing their glamorous Miami lifestyle, but also underlying issues of trust and loyalty.
• Kat observes: “I thought you guys would be married by now. Looking from the outside, you guys seemed like the perfect relationship.” (09:00)
• Fanny is candid about her reluctance toward legal marriage, given life experience and a desire for something less binding but still committed.

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2. Breakup, Growth, and the Road to “Marriage Lease”

[09:16–14:55]

• Fanny explains the emotional complexity of ending a relationship she still valued:
  • “Most people don't have the guts, the courage. They stay in their relationship forever and ever. It took me 14 years growing the courage to get out of an abusive marriage because I loved my husband so much. I know how hard that is.” (Kat, 12:16)
  • Fanny’s method for moving on included total separation, including blocking her ex and even moving to another country.
  • Through heartbreak, she gained a deeper sense of self-worth and empowerment: “If the person with you doesn’t treat you with respect, walk away. There’s nothing else.” (Fanny, 14:44)

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3. Love Is a Verb—The Action Behind Lasting Relationships

[15:22–16:29]

• Fanny credits the inspiration for her book to a conversation with a friend (Michael), whose motto was: “Love is a verb.”
• The notion is expanded: love isn’t just a feeling, but something you practice and continuously choose to cultivate through mutual effort and conscious actions.

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4. What Is a Marriage Lease? The Concept Explained

[16:33–18:24]

• Definition:

  • A “marriage lease” is a mutual, time-limited, renewable contract between partners—outside the legal system—detailing their individual needs, responsibilities, and expectations, much like a lease for a car or apartment.
  • “Basically, you have a committed relationship where you can sit down and say, okay…what can we do, what will it take to make this work? And you write down a lease, like a car lease.” (Fanny, 17:11)

• Purpose and Advantages:

  • Reduces pressure and expectations of “forever;” focuses on maintaining and reassessing the relationship regularly (typically annually).
  • Encourages open communication about finances, fidelity, health, and even appearance.
  • “Marriage is a business contract…and it has so many consequences, especially financial, legal.” (Kat, 18:24)

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5. Personalization, Honesty, and Accountability in the Lease

[19:45–23:48]

• Couples can include whatever matters most to them—sexual expectations, money, health, even things like weight or fitness—prompting a frank discussion about typically “taboo” issues.
• Kat and Fanny engage a humorous yet sharp takedown of the “weight” clause, with Fanny noting: “These are things that we think about, but we don’t say them. That’s the difference.” (21:18)
• Fanny relates a story from a widow friend who credits her successful marriage to annual reviews and revisions—proving the concept has real-life merit.

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6. Accountability vs. Pressure: Is a Marriage Lease Right for Everyone?

[28:12–29:22]

• The contract keeps partners accountable, ensuring neither lets the relationship (or themselves) stagnate.
• Kat notes: “I kind of like the idea because I think it would make people maybe more accountable…people have a tendency of, you know, letting go a little bit.” (28:12)
• Fanny underscores how lifetime marriage vows were developed when life expectancy was lower, making “till death do us part” a much smaller commitment.

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7. Sexual Expectations: When and How to Address Them

[30:33–32:19]

• Both women agree sexual compatibility is crucial and should be explicitly discussed—preferably included in the lease.

“When I'm in a relationship, I want to have a lot of sex…every guy in the beginning when they're dating, especially when they want to get you to bed [says], ‘I love it. I like it every night,’… then they get lazy.”
— Kat, 31:04

• Fanny suggests: “If you’re very sexual, you put that on your list…Let’s compromise.” (31:32)

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8. When Should a Couple Create a Marriage Lease?

[32:19–34:44]

• Six months into a committed, exclusive relationship is a good benchmark for discussing and creating a lease, especially before moving in together.
• The exercise can expose fundamental incompatibilities early.

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9. Marriage Lease and the Pressure to Marry (Especially for Women)

[35:39–37:09]

• Kat addresses the ‘desperation to marry’ that some women express, warning against pressuring partners.
• Fanny adds: “Nobody likes pressure,” and reflects that in her own past, pressure only backfired.
• Both agree that mutual, organic commitment is far more attractive and sustainable than pressure or ultimatums.

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10. The Infamous “List”: Fanny’s Personal Boundaries & Lessons Learned

[37:22–46:41]

• Fanny reveals a personal “boundaries and rules” list she gave her ex when they considered regrouping, including items like sharing locations, phone passwords, and not planning boys’ trips over anniversaries.
• Kat’s take: “If you get to the point that you are asking someone…‘I want to see your phone. I want you to share your location all the time’…it’s already, you shouldn’t already not go back. It’s like the famous broken glass.” (41:54)
• Fanny reflects that trying to force someone to be someone they’re not is futile: “You can’t force someone to be the person. That doesn’t come natural.” (45:17)
• The list—while extreme in hindsight—was rooted in her insecurity and prior breach of trust, and now serves as a cautionary tale rather than advice.

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11. Growth, Self-Love, and Future Relationships

[47:00–49:49]

• Both Kat and Fanny praise the power of “man diets”—intentional periods of being single—in order to grow and self-actualize.
• Fanny now feels her painful experiences have equipped her to attract and appreciate a partner who truly deserves (and reciprocates) her love.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On courageous breakups:
  “Most people don't have the guts, the courage. They stay in their relationship forever and ever.”
  — Kat Zammuto, 12:16

• On the reality of love:
  “Love is something that you have to—it’s an action…sometimes it’s a decision as well.”
  — Fanny Rojas, 15:22

• On the ‘marriage lease’:
  “This gives you the yearly lease, basically…What can I do to keep this lease? You want to keep this relationship going and make it better every year instead of…‘Oh, I’m married. I don’t have to do anything.’”
  — Fanny Rojas, 17:31

• On being honest about touchy issues:
  “These are things that we think about, but we don’t say them.”
  — Fanny Rojas, 21:18

• On incompatibility:
  “You can’t force someone to be the person. That doesn’t come natural.”
  — Fanny Rojas, 45:17

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:00] – Kat & Fanny recount their Miami friendship origin story
• [09:16] – Idealized relationships vs. reality; Fanny’s reluctance about legal marriage
• [12:16] – Courage and pain in breakups; Kat & Fanny share personal stories
• [15:22] – “Love is a verb”—actions matter more than words
• [16:33] – Explaining the marriage lease concept
• [28:12] – Accountability, comfort, and complacency in partnerships
• [30:33] – Sex as an essential part of relationship contracts
• [35:39] – Societal pressure on women to marry (and men’s reactions)
• [37:22] – Fanny’s “list” of rules, boundaries, and the fallout
• [47:00] – Importance of time alone and “man diets” for growth

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Memorable Moments and Final Takeaways

• Fanny’s honesty about the limits of marriage and traditional relationships offers a down-to-earth perspective for anyone feeling disenchanted by “forever.”
• Kat’s and Fanny’s vulnerabilities about their own romantic missteps make the episode relatable and affirming for listeners who’ve struggled with boundaries, trust, or people-pleasing.
• The “marriage lease” concept, though unconventional, is positioned as a practical, empowering alternative—especially for those who have “been there, done that” or value autonomy and regular relationship check-ins over legal permanence.
• The duo’s banter and candid laughter underscore the power of friendship and female empowerment after heartbreak.

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Resources and Links

• Marriage Lease: A New Concept by Fanny Rojas – Available on Amazon (Spanish edition also available)
• Follow Kat Zammuto:
  • Instagram: @realkatontheloose
  • YouTube: Kat on the Loose Show

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Summary compiled to reflect the candid, raw, and empowering tone of Kat on the Loose. All timestamps shown reference the main discussion content. Ads, promos, and non-content sections omitted faithfully.

Transcript

[Kat Zamuto]

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[Drew Ski]

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[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

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[Drew Ski]

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[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I'm not.

[Kat Zamuto]

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[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Right, Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski here.

[Fanny Rojas]

He handles the nice list.

[Drew Ski]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Drew Ski]

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[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Visit t mobile.com My guest today, Fanny Rojas, wrote a very interesting book called Marriage le A new Concept. It's actually a really great idea for a lot of couples out there to stay committed to check on whether or not they're still on the same page when it comes to their relationship. And it's probably a great idea for a lot of people who are not ready to actually go through with the legal marriage. I hope you guys enjoy my really fun conversation and I'll tell you guys all about how I met her, how we reconnected here in California. And the book is very fun, it's easy to read, it's short and it's available on Amazon now. Very interesting. Marriage lease. I hope you guys like it. And can on the Loose is gratefully sponsored by a local wonderful Los Angeles business, Gold Standard Builders, a design and construction company. Local licensed general contractors. A passionate team delivering great service, quality and fair pricing. They pay great attention to every detail. The owner, Adam Kornfeld, is so hands on with his projects. That's why their clients keep going back for more. So if you guys are thinking about remodeling your homes, a bathroom, a bedroom, maybe getting your backyards ready for summer. If you're interested in doing any projects.

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Welcome to Cat on the Loose.

[Fanny Rojas]

Thank you.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's such a pleasure having you here.

[Fanny Rojas]

Thank you for inviting me.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I know we're catching up. We haven't seen each other in here.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know, I know. It's been a while.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. So, full disclosure, not only she's a fantastic writer, this is her first book, Marriage Liz. But we been friends, Instagram friends. We met in Miami many years ago. So before we talk about the book, let's rehash how we met.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay. You tell me if you remember because.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It'S important to put the book into context of your life.

[Fanny Rojas]

Absolutely.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So when was that? Was it before COVID or after Covid?

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, way before.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Way before.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, yes.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Oh, my God, life goes by so fast. So it was maybe 2021 or 2020 that we met. I was living in South Beach. You were living in South Beach. There is a fabulous restaurant in South Beach. And by the way, there's two of my clients. Huge shout out. Semilla. Miami. Miami.

[Fanny Rojas]

One of my favorite places. We would walk there. I think we would have dinner every week.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I know Chef Fred, the owner, he's there every night. They make fantastic French food. And I lived right around the corner and I started doing their social media accounts. I was there almost every night, I remember. So I was there doing some videos and photos. I think I was with a friend of mine sitting at the bar and you walk in with your then boyfriend, now ex boyfriend, and his friend. You guys were the group of friends?

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes, yes, we were, I think group of six. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And I don't remember why, but we started talking because one of his friends was single.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes. Well, you started talking to the group and I thought, this girl's got some nerve just to come in here.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And you were annoyed a little bit.

[Fanny Rojas]

I was like, who is she? But no, I was not annoyed.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I know, because I love that about you because you're being very honest. I know, because my friend told me, oh, she's not happy that you're talking to them because you were very possessed.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, I didn't notice that. You were just like. I was.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I was just being nice.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know. And now I know. But I think at the moment, I think I had this little wall. And Miami can be a little, you know that way. But no, I'm. I. I'm so glad we met. And. And then after that, we actually came. Hang out with us. So we, you know, became friends. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But wait, we're not done with that night yet.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay. Okay. Oh, I'm nervous.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So I should have given you a.

Drink before you came.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, at least the questions. I love that you're so organic.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I'm organic.

[Fanny Rojas]

I'm nervous of what's gonna come out of this, Lisa.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's all good because obviously I adore you, but I remember that night. So you were in this relationship, serious relationship, committed relationship, with your boyfriend. Let's call. What would you like to call him? Douche.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. Let's call him Jeff.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Jeff. Okay, Jeff.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay, Jeff.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You guys were in a committed relationship. You were living together, this dream life in his fabulous multi gazillion dollar condo because he was a very successful guy and you are a very beautiful woman. If you guys are listening to the episode, please make sure you go watch the videos on my social media and YouTube because she's very beautiful. So you were there with a group of friends, and one of your friends was single. But I really was just. It was part of my job of, like, walking around Semila and to everyone. And you guys were having so much fun. I wanted to film and everything, but I remember my friend Dylan that was there with me. She was like, that girl is really pissed. Because it is. Now, that's my first question to you. It's not about you, but tell me if you agree. I think it's a huge part of Latin culture. Girls are very possessive and jealous of their men by nature.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think so, yeah. I think I was a little annoyed, but it wasn't even about being jealous. I just thought that. Okay, I wasn't sure if you were coming on to my boyfriend or his friend, so I wasn't sure. And I was a little standoffish at first.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

And then I realized that you were homeless. You were friendly, you were sweet and.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

That I appreciate that. And so your boyfriend's friend, he. We were just saying off camera. He was such a weirdo. God bless his heart.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so nervous about this conversation. I don't know.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

We're not naming names. I mean, it's not our fault if people go Google your life and find out who they. He was a sweetheart. But you realized right away that was a total weirdo. And I noticed, of course, he was flirting with me and everything. And I'm like, we can be friends, but that's it. Let's be friends. So at the end of the night, I obviously, I had had many glasses of wine back then. I used to drink way more. And I gave him my number. And then the next day, he called me, and he was like, all my friends are gonna go out on a boat. Which was your boyfriend's boat.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right, right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And he said, do you want to come? I said, I don't know. Is she gonna be mad at me? And thr.

[Fanny Rojas]

It's so funny. I didn't know that you knew that back then. Okay, this. This is the first time that comes out. How come?

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Because we never talked about that.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah, we never talked about that night. Okay.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

We haven't caught up. Well, because you were for. Obviously, on the boat. I wasn't gonna say anything.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But I was afraid if I came that you were gonna be mad at me, that I was there.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no. Obviously I knew you were coming, so he asked. I was not.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. So. And I. And when did I go to your. Your apartment? I don't remember if it was before. After the boat. Oh, it was that night. After. After.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah, I think it was after.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But I have to say. So we went out. Fabulous group of friends. And you are very sweet and super chill about it. So I think you were, like, warming up to me. Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think that's when I got to know you better. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But in general, even back then, when you. Now, looking back, in hindsight, do you think you were extra possessive, like, of. Like, being afraid that. Of. Of other women flirting with your boyfriend or vice versa?

[Fanny Rojas]

God, looking back, I don't know. I think that I was just getting used to the culture of Miami. I think girls are very aggressive. So I. Yeah, maybe. I. I don't know. I can't really think back that long ago, but.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So, yeah, we're talking four years ago. Yeah. So then I ended up moving back to Beverly Hills. We lost contact a little bit for a minute. Although I follow you on social media. You follow me on social media. And then let's fast forward. I honestly thought you guys would be married by now, because looking from the outside in, to me, you guys have had the perfect relationship. Beautiful couple on your side. Because I always thought he looked a little douchey, but, like, gorgeous couple living the dream. Because he makes a lot of money, right? Whatever he does. I don't know. Yeah, he has the boat, the condo, the car, and the girl.

[Fanny Rojas]

We had.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

We had a good life.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think that. I think, you know, in his defense, I think we had a lot of fun together.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah.

[Fanny Rojas]

He was one of the few relationships that I had that I actually enjoy being with him and have fun. We did a lot of fun stuff. So I was in love. I, for sure. I definitely was in love with him. And. And the breakup was hard for me, but it was.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. So you were living together. You thought you guys were gonna get married? No.

[Fanny Rojas]

No.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Because you didn't care about the marriage.

[Fanny Rojas]

I didn't want to get married.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Then you wanted a commitment, and we both did.

[Fanny Rojas]

We talked about. Neither one of us wanted to get married again. So we were on the same boat, the whole marriage thing, because you already.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Been married, you have grown kids. You're like in another page of your life.

[Fanny Rojas]

Totally. We. We wanted the same thing at that time.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay. Yeah. So me, now we're gonna talk about the breakup and getting to the book. Me following on social media. Honestly, I thought, all these guys are gonna live happily ever after. What a dream couple. La, la, la. So when I saw that you published the book Marriage Liz, we started talking and I said, oh, so how are you guys? You're like, no, we broke up.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right, right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And I was really surprised. You broke up and that led you to write the book?

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, not quite. I mean, the list that. I don't know if the part that I wrote a list for him to.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

We're going to that, because I have a lot of questions about that.

[Fanny Rojas]

So the book was not about the breakup. The book really came about with another friend who also agreed with me that getting married again is not necessary. Whatever. And we said. He actually said to me, how about it would be great to write a book? And he said, why don't you write it? And whatever. So kind of we work together with the concept. So the breakup was really hard for me, but I also knew that I wanted more and I wanted to be comfortable with somebody that I could trust. And that was the main thing. I didn't.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So the main thing was that you thought he was flirting with other women.

[Fanny Rojas]

He just. I just knew he wasn't loyal. And I think he. You know, some people want to be in a relationship and committed. I think he, from the beginning, pretty much, I think, told me that men are never going to be faithful.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Men meaning him. Because a lot of men are faithful, and a lot of men value their partners.

[Fanny Rojas]

Sure. And I think that he, from the beginning, I should have listened, but I didn't. And instead I had the mindset, oh, no, not with me. He'll Be. And it wasn't the case.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's the famous red flags that we avoid when we're in love with someone.

[Fanny Rojas]

And the longer you wait, the more invested you are. So it's harder to get out.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. So I have to say something. When you told me you broke up with him, I had an extra layer of admiration towards you. And I'll tell you why. Because I know how insanely difficult it is to break up with someone that we still love.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Most people don't have the guts, the courage. They stay in their relationship forever and ever. It took me 14 years growing, the courage to get out of an abusive marriage because I loved my husband so much. I know how hard that is.

[Fanny Rojas]

But I kind of prepared myself. I think I knew in my mind that I was gonna break up, and I was preparing myself mentally. And then after the breakup, I blocked him, and I. And I. You know, I know that 21 days where you don't talk to the person, it's easier to kind of adapt. So I did a lot of that and a lot of. I separated myself completely to the point of moving out of the country.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But it's.

Well, it's. It's.

Regardless. Yeah. Obviously you did everything right, but it's still a really difficult step.

[Fanny Rojas]

Of course, it was. It was. I had a hard time for a while, and now, of course, it's over.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Now you're happier, prettier, richer, more gorgeous. Everything a million times better. Of course. And he is probably always gonna look back and say, like, I took her for granted and I lost her.

[Fanny Rojas]

I don't know.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I. I know.

[Fanny Rojas]

I don't know. And it doesn't matter, but. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. No to. It doesn't matter, but that's usually what happens with someone that they. You know. And a lot of it happens to a lot of guys, but women, too, like, we say, I want to have the perfect relationship I want to have, and then when they find it, they cannot appreciate it enough.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And they think, oh, there is some better fish in the sea. And then they go fish. And then when they lose that perfect situation, they're never gonna have that level of a fabulous relationship again. And then they look back and inside and they regret it, you know?

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. It is not my concern right now, but I agree with you. And I also think that I've done that in my life where I've been in a great relationship, and I thought, well, what else is out there? And then you don't value that person. So we all do. It subconsciously or, you know, so it's. I think it's just a learning curve for sure.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But I do think once you break up with someone you still love and you know that that person is not good for you. Hopefully we've all done that. Instead of staying in an unhappy relationship, I was just telling about the situation that I broke up with someone that I was really in love with for almost two years, but I know he's so toxic for me. I think it's very empowering.

[Fanny Rojas]

Thank you. And I think it is. I think it is.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And like you said, as the days go by, you start feeling stronger.

Of course.

[Fanny Rojas]

And I also feel like everything happens for a reason. I think my time with him taught me different things, you know, and one of them is to value myself, because if the person is with you doesn't treat you with respect, walk away.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

There's nothing else.

[Fanny Rojas]

Nothing else. Yeah. And I think that was the main thing.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Respect.

[Fanny Rojas]

I didn't feel respected. And. And now I feel like, okay, I. I will look at the signs from the beginning.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I was saying to you. That. That happened to me just from doing the podcast.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I got tangled up with so many bad guys after. Bad guys that were still disrespecting me, cheating on me, then finally on them, like, what the hell? You know, Learn from your mistake. Now we know our value. We know what we want. And what you're never going to accept again.

[Fanny Rojas]

Totally.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So maybe after all of that, you felt empowered and encouraged. Like, you know what? I am going to be a writer. I'm gonna go for this.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes, yes. And the book just was very organic, too, with my friend Michael, by the way. I hope he'll be listening to this. You know, when he said we should, he said, I would write the book, but I don't have time. He said, why don't you do it and I'll fund it? And, you know, so that was very sweet of him that he trusted me. In the first part of the book, where I talk about love is a verb, is what he said. He says, fanny, love is something that you have to. It's an action. You can't just say, oh, I'm in love, or whatever. You got to work at it. And sometimes it's a decision as well. Like we think, oh, you're just magically going to be in love. No, you say, okay, this person in front of me. I'm going to look at this person say, is this good enough? And then you build that love and the trust and that because it took. I didn't fall in love right away with him. It took me a while, and then all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my God, I really love this guy. But in a way was. Because I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. So I fell in love with the potential.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, I think you fell in love with the idea when you had in your mind of him. Like we do so many times, we idealize that person. We want that person to be everything we want. It's so disappointing when they're not.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly. And. And so now I feel like I've learned a lot. So.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So the book. Yeah, let's talk about the book. Marriage lease.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right. So the idea is that. But after you been married, been there, done that, you know, you think that getting married again, your chances of divorce are much greater, first of all. So you're going in knowing that it might end up in divorce. So why do it? You're right. Why do it? But in a way, I think that this gives you the yearly lease, basically. And I was talking to somebody recently, and they said, well, we do this weekly. We sit down and we make sure that we don't build up situations.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

In a nutshell, for people that haven't read the book yet. Can you, like, explain the concept? Like, what would be a marriage lease? Okay.

[Fanny Rojas]

Marriage lease would be a contract that you do it with your partner outside of the legal and outside of the church. So basically, you have a committed relationship where you can sit down and say, okay, I want a committed relationship, but what can we do? What will it take to make this work? And you write down a lease, like a car lease.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay.

[Fanny Rojas]

For example, you know, you get a.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Car lease, which, by the way, you show, like on the last page of the book, it's right here, a sample marriage lease agreement.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right, Right. So that's just. And I wanted to do another ones where it would be funnier. But you know that. That will come later. But, yeah, why not? This gives you that. That. What's the word? The empowerment of saying, okay, what can I do to keep this lease? You know, like, for example, if you lease a car, you want to make sure that the car is kept in good condition or you don't get, you know, you have to pay extra. You know, so it's like a little push to say, okay, I want to keep this relationship going and make it better. Every year, instead of a lot of people get married and then they're like, oh, I'm married. I don't have to do anything, you know, so we forget to water the plant, just like, you know.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And a few months ago, I interviewed one of the top divorce attorneys in the country. She's a celebrity divorce attorney. Her name is Christina Royce. She's fantastic, by the way. A really good episode. Anybody that's thinking about getting married because. And she's happily married, but she's very matter of fact about it, and she said, marriage is a business contract. And I completely agree. Right. It has so many consequences, especially financial, legal consequences. But when people are in love and I see I have so many younger friends, it's hilarious. Like, they meet a guy and they're already, like, trying wedding dress.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly, exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But that they don't think about the important part about it. It's a document, you know, you're tied up legally to that person for many reasons.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, the thing is, for example, I think that I agree with people that get married and want to have kids and build a life. So go for it. You know, I'm not saying marriage is a bad thing or, you know, the legal part, but after you've been there, done that, you don't want to have kids. What. The only thing you take out of here is the having to go through an attorney to get, you know, paid ton of money. So if you go in saying, look, this is what I have, this is what you have, what can we do to work this together? It makes it easier, you know?

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. So you explain in the book, like, everything in detail. Like, of course, you talk a lot about the, you know, divorce rates and all that stuff and how to keep the sparks alive. And then you talk a little bit about how you would manage finances. So, like, if somebody decides, okay, I'm going to do a marriage lease, meaning it's temporary, you basically can put everything in there, everything that's important to you.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly, exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Like, if I'm super rich and you're not, I can put there, like, you know, if we decide to terminate this relationship, this agreement, you're not going to take any of my stuff. You're not going to ask me for money.

[Fanny Rojas]

I personally would say this is like a prenup. And it is, but it's not, because you're still not going through the legal.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Through court. So it's just between two people.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So someone out there listening could say, well, if it's just between two people, it's not enforceable. What good is it? Why am I going to go through the trouble?

[Fanny Rojas]

Right. But it is enforceable. If you make it enforceable.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You know, how do you make it?

[Fanny Rojas]

You know, you trust the person and at the end of the day, you go with, okay, so here's another thing, aside from the financial part. Let's say that. And I do talk about my friends who. Her boyfriend got really heavy and she's like, no, no, no, I, I can't do this.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Or heavy, like gain a lot of weight.

[Fanny Rojas]

So it's, it's kind of.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Did they have something there on the marriage lease about weight? That's a very sensitive.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know. Somebody said that to me. How can you say that?

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Sean is laughing here. My son. Like, I would be really offended if my boyfriend told me, you cannot be over 117 pounds.

[Fanny Rojas]

But these things, these are things that we think about, but we don't say them. Okay, so that's the difference. Like you, for example, you.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But would you.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay, so let's say that I meet my person and this person is, Is heavy. Yeah. I'm fine with it, you know, whatever.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Right.

[Fanny Rojas]

But you meet someone who's, let's say, fit, and it's always at the gym, and then all of a sudden we get married and he decides, I don't.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Want to let themselves go. Exactly.

[Fanny Rojas]

So it's more about letting themselves go. It's not about even about appearance. It's about saying, look, I don't care enough about how you see me, whatever. So at that point. So it isn't a little.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But how do you bring it up? Like, let's say you're sitting down. Like, I would. Your boyfriend say, okay, I'll do the marriage lease because I love you. Let's try it out. How do you approach. Because some subjects, Money, looks, certain things are very delicate.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, the weight part, I would approach it as, as a health issue, number one. And number two, let's say this person has some health issues they can't work out that I would not leave my person. Because you're already invested and you love the person. So it's not, it's not being that insensitive.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

No, you're very. I think you're actually very delicate the way you bring it up.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know. Because I do think that these are things that we think about, but yet we're so afraid to talk about.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

And this is why the affairs. Let's say you married somebody and then your wife looks amazing and then 10 years later she puts on a lot.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Of weight and which, by the way, parenthesis is one of the top five complaints about most men is that they marry this gorgeous woman. I'm not saying most women don't kill me because I know I get Amelia mess. But most women, they get married and they let themselves go, right? They're like, oh, I already got him, whatever. And guys don't like that. They complain about and that's how the.

[Fanny Rojas]

Affair start and that's how, you know. So I think having a lease, you're, you're putting everything out there.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You're putting a little pressure.

[Fanny Rojas]

Pressure and also honesty, you know, and saying, look, if this happens, I might want to review renew the lease or not renew it and maybe we need to talk about this. And so when I was this last time I was in Costa Rica, I met this friend, Hera. She's amazing. And I was telling her about my book and she said this is what I used to do. Her husband died two years ago and she said we used to every year some people do it more often. But she said every year that we sit down at their anniversary and write down their list of things they want to change, the things that are good. And I thought, whoa, that's like that.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I do too.

[Fanny Rojas]

And she said that's what kept their marriage so vibrant for so long. And I was happy to hear that because she read the book and she thought be was right on on what they do.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Let's take a really quick break and talk about a problem that I know most of us have. Especially after super crazy long work days, puffy eyes, dark circles, eye bags, tired looking skin. And this is why I partnered with Marie Marine. And now I am madly in love with this brand of collagen eye gels, collagen and hyaluronic acid face masks. They use ocean sourced natural ingredients such as pearl extract, algae extract, everything science backed, everything sustainably formulated which is so important. Ethically and responsibly sourced. This USA brand really, really, really works. I use my face masks every Sunday and I have fantastic skin all week long. And when I come home super tired, I put the eye masks at night and I wake up with fantastic, fantastic skin. I invite you to check it out. You can buy all of their products right on Amazon. It is spelled Mar M A R E or right on their website. I am a. Guys, I never thought I would say.

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I kind of like the idea because I think it would make people maybe more accountable. Because, like, if we love someone, even if you're not married, like, you live together, like it was your case with your boyfriend, or you're even dating someone, like, past that beginning of the honeymoon, six months, one year into it, people have a tendency of, you know, letting go a little bit. Even like sex right in the beginning, it's like, oh, I don't have a lot of it. And then they get lazy.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And other. And like you said, looks. So I think maybe this is a great idea for accountability.

That's it.

[Fanny Rojas]

That's the word I was looking for earlier. Accountability. That's it. And we forget to do that. And another thing that I've noticed is when you get married, you say, till death do us apart.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Well, that's a long time.

[Fanny Rojas]

That's a long time. Because back then, people didn't live as long as we do now. So it's. It's a long time to. And you. I'm not saying you couldn't, but if you have something like this, you can definitely change with the times. Versus you can do whatever. Whatever. And I'll still be married to you. No, it's unfair. And then. Okay, so another thing. I agree.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I like that.

Yeah.

[Fanny Rojas]

I was watching this movie and. And the guy was getting married for the second time, and the daughter was very upset. And so he's at the wedding and he says, till death do us apart. And I'm thinking he did that with the mom, too. So how true is that? We say things that we don't mean because you don't know. You don't know what could happen.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Ideally, it's always amazing if you meet someone that you love so much, and obviously there are a lot of people out there and you know you're gonna be together forever. I think that's our first choice. That's the goal. But like you said many times, that's not life. Because people change.

They evolve.

Circumstances change. I have examples. And I'm actually proud of myself in that sense. The few, very few relationships and boyfriends that I had ever since Anthony died, I. We realized that we were not a good match for many reasons, and we remained friends. Like, I have a very friendly, very nice relationship with everybody I dated. And I think that's important. And maybe like you said, if you put it on paper and you go read it A year later and you realize you're in such different pages. Then you're like, you know what? Let's repurpose our relationship. Maybe we're better as friends.

[Fanny Rojas]

Totally. That's the goal.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I love that.

[Fanny Rojas]

That's the idea.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So let's talk about the sex part for a minute because this is so important. It's important to me and probably to you as well.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I was in almost, almost sexless marriage for 14 years.

Wow.

Because my husband was very conservative. He drank a lot. The more money he made, the more he drank. Anyway, total chaos once I got out of it. And now I'm rebuilding my life. I, I, It's a very important part of a relationship for me.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I don't want to be in that situation again. I, When I'm in a relationship, I want to have a lot of sex.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And I tell all the guys.

[Fanny Rojas]

I don't think you're gonna get a lot of complaints about.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

No, but it's. Listen, every guy in the beginning when they're dating, especially when they want to get you to bed, like, oh, I love it. I like it every night. La la la la la. Even my ex boyfriend or girls have like, like my ex boyfriend. Oh, I same. I, I want to have a. But then they start getting lazy about it. Then it's like once a week, twice a week, every other. How do. Would you approach that on a marriage lease?

[Fanny Rojas]

The same thing. You add that into. And I think that's a very important factor. And you should put that on your list and say, listen, I'm. If you're very sexual. You said sex is very important to me. Let's compromise. It might not be for the other person, but maybe get to a point where you both are happy, where you don't feel forced, and where he or she, you know, where they don't feel like they have to do something they don't want to do. But if you're not sexual, then those are things you want to know up front because it's not going to change.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's gonna get worse.

[Fanny Rojas]

It's gonna get worse. So, so if you put that in there, you can. And maybe a year later you can say, okay, well, this is not working the way we thought it was. What happened to the sex? So, you know, you can easily talk about those things because you're already going with this idea.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So it could happen, let's say. So how soon in a relationship should you be doing this? Let's say you're dating someone for six months and you guys really, really, really like each other. Then you bring it up. Oh, by the way, I would love to try this out. So once you're writing it down, could it happen maybe, right, like the very first time, Once you start writing it, you realize that you guys are not on the same page.

[Fanny Rojas]

Of course. And I think that's a good way to see. Yeah, for sure. Because you write your. The things are important to you, and these are things that don't come out unless you have something silly like this too. Like, let's look at this book, let's do this, whatever. And then you can see that, you know, maybe you're not so compatible. And so when do you do it? I think that if you're with somebody for six months exclusively, I think six months is probably the time where, you know, okay, where is this going? Because sometimes we waste our time. I mean, when you're in your 20s and 30s, maybe it's like, whatever. But, you know, like you said to me earlier, you're dating consciously.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

You want a partner. So are you going to date a million guys? No. So you, you know what you want, so you go into a relationship with someone that also wants a relationship. And so I think within six months, you say, okay, where's this going? Do you want a relationship to blast or whatever? And then you, you.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I would say it's a good idea to do it before you even think about moving. Like, if you're thinking about moving in together.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay, let's do.

[Fanny Rojas]

And I think six months is kind of like the move in together at this point. Yeah, I agree. Or maybe, maybe not.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Obviously there's variations, but I agree with you. I don't want to waste a year, two years of my life. Usually for guys, believe it or not, it's like between three and four months, a lot of guys will date you for like, three. And then they're like, okay, I want.

[Fanny Rojas]

To give guys a month. You never know.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I think a month is a little much of a, like a love bombing. Like, if, if the guy's already treating you like, I want you here. I want to do this, I want to do that. No, no. Like, you are ready. In a committed relationship, to me, that's a pink flag.

[Fanny Rojas]

So pink. Yeah, I, I think six months is a good number.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And because you need, you need more. Like, I don't think you can know someone in a month.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

That's really, really soon.

[Fanny Rojas]

Really soon. But you do know the person when you spend a lot of time with them.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Of course.

[Fanny Rojas]

And that's Part of you living with somebody before you. You go, you know, whether you want to get married or not. You know, some people want to get married. Some people. And I did say that some people have that dream.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yes, I agree. But in your case, just like a personal question. I love the idea, by the way, because you and I have been married same. It's not a priority to me to get. To get married on paper, but if you met someone that it's really important to them and you were in love and he did the marriage list, but then another year later, he's like, but it's really, really important to me to get married. Would you do it? Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, yeah. So I'm not.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I'm not completely against same.

[Fanny Rojas]

I would. I would do it and I would.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Change my mind if I met the right partner and it was so, so important to him. I would be flexible.

[Fanny Rojas]

And I think it's usually the other way around. I think mostly women are the ones that.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, we are, but we are like, we don't care.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no, I don't care. But I think men are happy not being married necessarily.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It depends on the man.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, true.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Some men, yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

Very true, Very true. But it depends.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, Yeah, I guess that's very interesting because things are changing and you. But this is what I think. And I always tell girls that. Tell me if you agree, because I have some friends here in. In la. They haven't been married before. Okay. But they're a little desperate. Like, that's all they say. I want to get married. I want to get married, I want to get married. They even scare guys away because, like, the first, second date, they already tell the dude. They put everything on the table, and then they start dating the guy. And they put all this pressure, like, hey, dude, you better propose soon if you know what you're doing. I actually have one friend that it's even the more extreme. She's been dating the guy for a few months since February. They are already moving in together, and she's already trying on wedding dresses. He hasn't even proposed yet, and they're gonna go on vacation. I'm not even gonna say where. And she was like, well, he better propose when we go to. I'm like, like, dude, you're putting so much pressure on this guy, even if he's madly. I think men don't like that.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no, no, I don't. I don't think.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Do you agree?

[Fanny Rojas]

And we don't like that either. Nobody likes pressure.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But I think men even. They may even if they love you, they want to be the men. Like they want to get to that point.

Yes.

[Fanny Rojas]

And I think that's when I. When I did my list with my ex. I think that after the fact, I've noticed that there was pressure on my part. Was it let's get married? But it's Sunday.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. I'm thinking guys don't like that.

[Fanny Rojas]

I didn't like that.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And this is why I think we attract such great quality partners. Because we are not pressuring them. We have our own things going on. And once you release that pressure, I think they feel more comfortable coming and being near you and deciding what they want. I think pressure is a really bad idea.

[Fanny Rojas]

But I think I did that.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So. Okay, let's talk. That's the part that I'm really excited to talk about.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, no.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay, lady. So you did a list. Okay, let's talk about your list. Oh, boy. It's on page 43 if you guys want to get the book and follow. It's a really fun book, by the way, because it's very short. I like short books because I'm so busy. I love to read, but I don't have time to read those 400 page books like I used to anymore. Now it has to be fast and furious.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And so I love it. So on page 43 you talk a little bit about your story. And it was after. Yeah. You had moved out and you guys were thinking about getting back together, Right?

[Fanny Rojas]

I moved out and then we actually did get back together. We did get back together three months later. So I give him.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So he begged.

Begged.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no, no. He had three months to go have fun, which he did. I'm sure he probably went crazy. You know, Miami is an easy place to get crazy with girls and everything.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

This on any plate, by the way. This, this geography excuse. I agree, mime is chaotic. It's a hellhole. But if a guy wants to go crazy, quote unquote, believe me, if he's in Nebraska, he's gonna. The secretary at lunchtime, the girl that works at Burger King, pardon my French.

[Fanny Rojas]

I love her direct yard.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Because if guys want to be in trouble or have fun, it's not geography that's going to keep it. So these dudes that are douche because they're in Miami, they're gonna be a douche anywhere.

[Fanny Rojas]

That's true.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I promise you.

[Fanny Rojas]

So we got back together after three months of. And I already moved out. So we were dating, living separate places and then. But prior to getting back together, I came up with the list and in.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Case he wanted you back.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, no, no, no.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

We.

[Fanny Rojas]

This is after I decided to get him back. So it wasn't.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay, so you decided.

[Fanny Rojas]

So we got back together. We talked about, talked. And then I said.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You made a list called Boundaries and Rules.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes. Basically I said, these are the things that I need from you in order for this relationship.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay, let's read the list because we have to talk about some of it. I. Yeah, it's a little too much.

[Fanny Rojas]

A little much. Exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

If somebody gave me this list and you know I love you, of course, but I'm telling you, if somebody gave me this list, I would be like here exactly. Like a pressure. But because I like giving this thing. But we are the same. I like being loyal and giving these things voluntarily.

Right.

But. Okay, let's read the list. Okay.

[Fanny Rojas]

All right.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's very short. Share location.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay, first of all, okay, that's kind of like. Remember when I wrote this list, I.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Thought, yeah, you're not. I know you're not in the same mind. No headspace anymore.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, I'm not. But I also, I didn't think he was going to take this seriously. I didn't think he was going to agree to this.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, so you were making it super tough.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah, super tough.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Okay, so share location. Call to check in when you're traveling. No hookups. I mean, that should go without saying. We prioritize our kids first than us. You will not get random girls. Phone number. Same. That's just like basic respect, right? Do not stare at other women in front of me. Again, basic respect. I mean, come on, we all like looking at beautiful people. I love looking beautiful men. But I agree, if you're sitting at a table, someone like, come on, have some respect. Like you're going back to the basics. Respects. We discuss all the guys trip trips before you plan. By the way, this dude is not 30. This dude is like almost 70 now. He's in his 60s.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, he's, he's not.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I mean, boys trip. I mean, come on.

He's.

He's a Peter Pan.

[Fanny Rojas]

He's a. Yes, he had. Definitely had that. He, he did a lot of guys trip.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

The way like you talk guys trips. Like, okay, if you're in college, 25, 28, 29, it's so funny. 30, but like a 60 something year old dude that's already like, you know, come on.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay, but the video is true.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

This one really bothers me and I'll tell you why. Okay. We will share passwords to our phones.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, it Bothers me too. I don't want to do that. I don't.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And I'll tell you why. It's not because I'm very. I'm an open book. As you can see. Everybody knows my entire life is out there. And if my boyfriend wants to see my phone, I'm like my ex boyfriend. He still has the codes of my phone to this day, in case there's an emergency with me, my dog. I'll be like, sure, go ahead and look. But to me, if somebody tells me, I'll give me your. It makes me feel like you don't trust me. And that's the problem. I have. I want to be trusted because I'm proud of being loyal.

[Fanny Rojas]

Right. But remember, all of this is after I have a reason why. So nothing is.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You were feeling insecure.

[Fanny Rojas]

That too, but I had my reasons.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, exactly. But. So this is what I'm gonna say. If you get to the point that you are asking someone. I want to see your phone. I want to know your password. I want you to share location all the time. It's already. You shouldn't already not go back. It's like the famous broken glass.

[Fanny Rojas]

Totally. And. And yes.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's not done yet. We have a few more. All the stuff you say is like. Should go without say. You should not have to ask for it. Like this one. Anniversaries are important.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, no, that was the end of. Actually, that was the end of our relationship. It was. Our anniversary was coming up, and he had a guy strip planned, and so that's.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Did he remember the date?

[Fanny Rojas]

He did. And he planned his trip right on that day.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, he's a narcissist douche.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, anyway, so that's. That's why I put that in there, because I. I thought, you know, it was.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I know you agree with me. You're just being polite and you don't want to say because he's gonna listen to the episode.

[Fanny Rojas]

I don't know that he's gonna listen.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Oh, yeah, he will. Trust me. Oh, I feel bad person you are. So go get some therapy before you. You heard some other woman out there. Yeah. Yes. Really?

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay, let's go on with the list.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Be selective with friendships, keeping them age appropriate. Like, same. Right. Age appropriate. If you're not age appropriate.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, most of this guy's friends in Miami are probably in their late 20s, early 30s, so I thought that was.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Kind of Peter Pan, maybe makes him feel younger. Yeah, because he's not. Yeah, he's in his 60s. Well, not. He's not way older.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, he's not. Anyway.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And you, by the way, that's one thing. I'm not joking. Even if you guys had married, I would tell you that.

[Fanny Rojas]

You're so bad.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

No, I'm just honest. When I met you guys, and. And I realized that you guys were a couple back then. I'm. I'm sorry, but I was really surprised because you looked a million years younger than him. Like, seriously, even back then. I know you were in love, but you looked like. Like 20 years younger than him. Wow.

[Fanny Rojas]

Okay. Well, I. I don't know.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I kind of, like, everybody said that too, by the way, even his friends, like, when we're on the boat. Because you have a killer body.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. You going with the list?

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

No, you guys can go on her Instagram. But I'm saying the truth. I'm not, like, buttering up. I'm just saying, like, it is. If he was super handsome, I would say. But it was shocking. Strikingly. Like, the difference between you guys. But, I mean, you shouldn't have to tell a boyfriend that an anniversary is important.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know. I know. I. And this is why.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And yeah, you shouldn't tell. A boyfriend should be age appropriate. Right? He's not your kid.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, I know. And that's how kind of.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I would never. If I had. Even if I had to say that to a guy, I wouldn't even say it.

[Fanny Rojas]

I know. And.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And it was kind of like, oh, yeah, this one. That's the pressure. But you would never do that again.

[Fanny Rojas]

No.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I want to get married before September 20th, 22nd, pre. Nup. No problem. Run off to Vegas. So you put the marriage thing on the.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah, I did. I thought that was, like, the ultimate. Like, are you committed to me? It was. All of it was. So I. I know how obnoxious that list was, but.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But you changed.

[Fanny Rojas]

No, but the thing is, he. He. Like I said in there, he agreed to it. And I was kind of happy because I thought, oh, my God, he really loves me. He's willing to do these things.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I think he really loved you.

[Fanny Rojas]

But then I realized that you can't force someone to be the person. That doesn't come natural.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Exactly.

[Fanny Rojas]

I don't want to share my password. I don't want. I don't want to do that. But I want to tr. Person so much.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yes. And I did.

[Fanny Rojas]

I trusted him so much for so long, until I got to see things.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It's heartbreaking, right?

[Fanny Rojas]

It was heartbreaking because you loved at that point. You already love the person.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And, you know, I know we're invested, but this is what I was gonna say. First of all, you're very brave for putting the list out there because I hope every girl and guy read the list. And if you are doing that to your significant other or other, ask yourself, why do you really want to be with someone that you gotta like, like share location? If they love you, they're happy to look like, oh, here I am. This is what I'm doing. I miss you. I think these are things that we all deserve organically.

[Fanny Rojas]

Exactly, exactly.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Voluntarily.

[Fanny Rojas]

I would, I would never. If I have any of that on the new person, I would not.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah, like all these things. Like, I want my guy to like you, to like plan an anniversary. This is. You say to your kids, I know, where are you? Right. So this is a really good checklist list for everyone because the. I would ask myself, am I getting all of these things? And if you're not, there is a problem. And if you are asking all of these things, there is a bigger problem. But it's very brave of you.

[Fanny Rojas]

So basically, go on Fanny's list and don't use things.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Exactly. Page 43 of the book, the marriage list. So you guys got back together. Obviously, he didn't do it.

[Fanny Rojas]

Well, no, I gotta say, one of the things he did say, he says, fanny, I did everything on the list. And. But, but he, he did him, actually. I, I just felt like I was forcing him to do it. Wasn't for. Yeah, I can't force him, so.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

But everything happens for a reason. Right? Because you left him and you're so much happier.

Yeah.

[Fanny Rojas]

You know, I moved to Costa Rica. I got to kind of self discover. I went there and I got that time alone to be on my own and realize that looking back, I obviously learned a lot from that relationship. And now I know what not to do.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Exactly. We learn from our mistakes. And I think taking these breaks is so good. I call them the man diet. And I do those a lot.

[Fanny Rojas]

I heard that, that episode, I take.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

A lot after, like I, I get out of a relationship, I really, I focus on myself. I focus all that energy on me, my projects, my work. And it's really good. I'm proud of doing that because I'm not in a hurry. I don't want to have sex with random strangers. And during those months, when I take a break, everything flourishes for me. And I feel like I'm an even better partner for the right person for me. Like it's happening to you now.

[Fanny Rojas]

Yes, absolutely.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You're a very brave girl.

[Fanny Rojas]

Thank you.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

So are you.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think that every time that something bad happens, something better is on the other side. We learn from our mistakes. We learn from our pain.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think if your life is so easy, you just don't even have the need to grow. You just go with the flow and all is good.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Exactly.

[Fanny Rojas]

So I, I, I don't know. I think I'm. For the first time maybe in my life that I'm so comfortable with me, with what I want. Yeah, it's, it's beautiful.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

You look amazing.

[Fanny Rojas]

I think if I would have stayed in that relationship, I wouldn't be where I am today. So for that, I'm grateful that, that, that he didn't.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

Yeah. I think when we are going through the pain and a brink breakup, it's very hard to see it because we are in pain. Yeah. And that's why most people stay, because they don't want to get out of it. But once you do that and you're strong enough, you realize why. It was like me when I left that marriage. Oh. Even my mom. My mom was alive and she was like, you're crazy. He's a multimillionaire. You have this letter. But I knew it was something that I needed to do. And now you saw my life. You saw I work like crazy. I don't have the same luxury or anything, but I've never been happier because we are creating and building up. And like I said, I said it's so empowering.

Yes.

To be on your own. And I think it makes you a much better partner.

[Fanny Rojas]

Oh, absolutely. That's the thing, I think, to find. Okay, going back to that. I think when I met him, I was not the right partner either. So I'm not going to put all the blame on him. I think that I was living in Miami. I was, was going out a lot. I was drinking a lot. So I, I attracted someone that was at that same level of, of vibration or whatever. So I feel like it, it. That's what happened. And then I was changing, but he wasn't changing. And that's when the disconnect. Yeah, that's the disconnect. And now I'm like, okay, I think that I'm in a good place to attract better and, and, and be with somebody that, that deserves me and that I deserve them.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

I love that. And now you are a fabulous writer because I know you're already working on the site. I'm gonna bring you back for the second one. Guys. The book Marriage leaves a new concept By Funny Rojas. I love saying that name. And it's on Amazon, so it's also in Spanish. I have it. Oh, I love that. There you go. I love it. Go grab it because like I said, such a fun read. And try it out with your partner because it keeps you accountable. And she's gonna sign two copies, right?

[Fanny Rojas]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

And I'm gonna give them away. So the first, these two people that listen to the podcast send me a message. WhatsApp [phone] if you want to shoot me a message on Instagram, you guys know the Instagram. It's real cat on the loser Cat Zamuto. And we are all over the place. The first two people that send a message say, I want the signed book by Fanny. You're gonna get your free copy FedEx anywhere in the world. I will send. We have audiences in 55 countries, so anywhere in the world. The first two people that are listening, hit me up. You get the free book. Book signed by Fanny and you look gorgeous. It's so fun. And now we're gonna go have a great lunch and gossip more. And you please come back to Canada lose with the next book because I predict you're gonna be a best selling book writer for now. Thank you. Congratulations.

[Fanny Rojas]

Thank you.

[Kat Zamuto (Host)]

It was so nice having girls. Be safe out there, guys. Be safe out there. Don't be douches. Thank you. See you guys very soon.

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