Real Housewives of New Jersey Jackie Goldschneider

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kat on the Loose – Episode Featuring Jackie Goldschneider

Title: Real Housewives of New Jersey Jackie Goldschneider
Host: Kat Zammuto
Release Date: February 26, 2025

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of "Kat on the Loose," host Kat Zammuto welcomes Jackie Goldschneider, a star from the acclaimed Bravo TV series "Real Housewives of New Jersey." Beyond her reality TV fame, Jackie is also an author who has courageously shared her personal battle with anorexia in her unfiltered memoir, "The Weight of Beautiful: My Battle With Anorexia and Journey to Recover."

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Jackie's Struggle with Anorexia

Jackie Goldschneider opens up about her decades-long battle with anorexia, detailing how she concealed her eating disorder from friends, family, and the public until she felt ready to expose the harrowing realities of her struggle.

"After decades of hiding her eating disorder from friends, family and the world, Jackie felt ready to expose the realities of her devastating struggle with anorexia, including the harrowing day-to-day tactics she employed to count calories and restrict meals," (00:24).

Kat praises Jackie's bravery in sharing such a personal pain, drawing parallels to her own experiences overcoming an abusive marriage.

"I was very impressed by her book because I know as a woman how tough it is to put out there... it's very raw, very real," (01:03).

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Origins of Anorexia

Jackie's journey began in high school when she grappled with obesity, leading her to use food as a coping mechanism during a lonely period.

"I became obese in high school. It was very lonely, and I used food as a companion because I really had no one else," (05:40).

A turning point occurred during a pre-college physical in April 1994, where her doctor's weight-shaming comments propelled her into restrictive dieting.

"I went straight from his office to Weight Watchers, and it was the last day of my life that I was not on a diet," (06:20).

This initial foray into calorie counting quickly spiraled into an unhealthy obsession.

"Weight Watchers in the 90s was the start of many people's eating disorders... it taught me to look at food as numbers instead of nourishment," (10:27).

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Impact on Personal Life

Jackie's anorexia profoundly affected her relationships and physical health. She recounts extreme weight fluctuations during college—losing and gaining up to 30 pounds multiple times.

"I lost 50 pounds, and college was a total roller coaster of weight gain and weight loss. It was horrific," (12:33).

Her struggle extended into her marriage and motherhood, where she constantly measured her children's food to ensure they were nourished, reflecting her deep-seated anxiety about food and weight.

"Feeding my kids was a nightmare. I didn't know how to feed them enough because I didn't feed myself," (28:28).

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Joining Reality TV: Real Housewives of New Jersey

Amidst her turmoil, Jackie received an invitation to join "Real Housewives of New Jersey." Initially hesitant due to fears of constant surveillance threatening to expose her secret, she decided to participate, believing that the platform could simultaneously aid her recovery.

"If I do this in front of the whole world, I'll stop, because I won't show people that it's too hard to recover," (37:29).

The reality TV environment brought additional stress, including malicious rumors about her husband's fidelity that exacerbated her anorexia.

"My husband never cheated on me... People love to talk. They love to start problems," (48:22).

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Journey to Recovery

Jackie's decision to be transparent on camera became a catalyst for her recovery. By openly discussing her struggles, she found the strength to seek help and begin healing.

"Every single bit of it was worth it, because I truly believe that I would not have had the strength to recover if I had not decided to do it in front of the whole world," (42:43).

Though she acknowledges that recovery is a lifelong journey, Jackie celebrates her progress and newfound freedom to enjoy food without guilt.

"To have that freedom and that flexibility, to get a call on a Tuesday with a friend asking, do you want to come to dinner? There's no chance that I would have said yes in my past... now there's no more rules," (44:37).

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Insights and Advice

Jackie emphasizes the importance of redefining one's relationship with food. A pivotal mantra from her recovery is:

"Food is not bad and it's not good. It's not your enemy. Nothing is just something that nourishes us and allows us to be healthy and live our lives." (46:27)

She advocates for moderation and intuitive eating, distancing herself from past restrictive habits.

"I don't overeat. I'm never on a diet. I just enjoy it in moderation... and if it has worked for me ever since," (46:27).

Jackie's story serves as an inspiration, demonstrating that with courage and support, it's possible to overcome deeply ingrained struggles and rebuild one's life.

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Conclusion

Kat Zammuto and Jackie Goldschneider conclude the episode by celebrating Jackie's resilience and the impactful message of her memoir. Jackie encourages listeners to read her book, "The Weight of Beautiful," highlighting that it offers hope and motivation not just for those battling eating disorders, but for anyone seeking to overcome personal challenges.

"It's anybody who has ever lost themselves and found themselves again. It's really a great story," (49:38).

Kat and Jackie reaffirm the importance of sharing such personal journeys to empower and support others facing similar battles.

"You are major living proof in your case that you can be gorgeous and healthy and recover," (50:03).

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Recommended Read:
The Weight of Beautiful: My Battle With Anorexia and Journey to Recover by Jackie Goldschneider

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Note: Advertisements and non-content sections from the transcript have been omitted to focus on the core conversation between Kat and Jackie.

Transcript

[Cat Zamuto]

My guest today, Jackie Goldschneider, is a.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Star of the super successful Bravo TV.

[Cat Zamuto]

Show Real Housewives of New Jersey.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And now, more importantly, she is also an author. She wrote an unfiltered memoir, the Weight of Beautiful My Battle With Anorexia and.

[Cat Zamuto]

Journey to Recover, where she bravely chronicles.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Her decades long battle with anorexia and public journey to recover. After decades of hiding her eating disorder from friends, family and the world, Jackie felt ready to expose the realities of her devastating struggle with anorexia, including the harrowing day to day tactics she employed.

[Cat Zamuto]

To count calories and restrict meals, her.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Struggles with fertility and pregnancy, the effect her eating disorder had on her relationships with her husband and children, and ultimately how, in a twist of fate, becoming a reality TV star saved her life. I was very impressed by her book because I know as a woman how.

[Cat Zamuto]

Tough it is to put out there.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

In the public something that we are struggling with personally, something that is a personal pain to us. In my case, I've been doing it through the podcast, talking about overcoming an abusive marriage, being a victim of abuse, rebuilding my life from scratch, and I know it's very intimidating when you're talking to thousands and thousands of people out there. So I was very impressed by her book. It's very raw, very real.

[Cat Zamuto]

Beautiful, beautiful story.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Even if you are not dealing with anorexia. I highly recommend a read because it will definitely inspire you.

[Cat Zamuto]

Jackie is living proof that you can turn your life around and it's a beautiful story.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I hope you guys enjoy my great conversation with the beautiful and super talented Jackie Goldschneider. Are you thinking about planning an amazing.

[Cat Zamuto]

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[Cat Zamuto]

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[Unknown]

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[Jackie Goldschneider]

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[Cat Zamuto]

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[Unknown]

Thank you for having me.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's my pleasure. It's such an honor having you. I have to say, I was reading your book the past few days and I am very impressed. First and foremost, as a woman, because I know how hard it is to open up about personal things and you did such an amazing job. So the first thing I want to say is congratulations.

[Unknown]

Thank you. It was very healing for me to open up that much.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, it's really hard, right? Because I do the same. Like on my podcast, I talk a lot about my personal life, my journey, getting out of an abusive marriage. And I know in the beginning it's scary and it's tough. So the way you open up in your book, I was like, wow, this is just because it was so raw and so real and so on. Obviously you poured your soul into it.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I did. I mean, certain parts were harder to open up about than others. Some parts I couldn't wait to just get the terrible memories out of my head and onto paper. But other things were touchier. I questioned whether or not I should open up about them.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, so let's rewind for people that don't know your story, people that haven't read the book yet, and I want to try to pack up as much as we can, like I told you, because I also want to talk about your experience being on the show. But for those who don't know what you've been going through, the book is the way to Beautiful. You decided to talk about your journey being an anorexic and recovery. So for people that don't know you, in a nutshell, you. Everything started because you were. You grew up obese, Correct?

[Unknown]

I became obese in high school.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yes. And it was very lonely, and I used food as a companion because I really had no one else.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. Like a lot of people do, by the way, we use food to. To cope. Right?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yes. So, and then in your journey of gaining weight and feeling as an outcast.

[Cat Zamuto]

When you were younger, food triggered you.

[Unknown]

What.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

What was the turning point that you went from just gaining weight and eating so much to like, oh, my God, I want to lose all this weight and I want to be skinny.

[Unknown]

Yeah. There was an absolute turning point. It was one day I was having my. My pre college physical. It was April of 1994. I was a senior in high school, and I knew nothing about how to lose weight. It was totally foreign to me. And I went to my doctor, and he basically weight shamed me and told me that I wouldn't have any fun in college if I went to college. So overweight and, you know, it was a different time back then. Obviously that wouldn't fly right now. And I think he gave me some medical jargon about also the benefits of losing weight, But I really remember him talking to me with, like, palpable disappointment about how much more fun I would have if I was. If I lost weight. And I went straight from his office to Weight Watchers, and it was the last day of my life that I was not on a diet. Wow.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I. And this was a long time ago. How many years ago was that?

[Unknown]

That was 94. So it was 31 years ago.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So this is something that. That you've been going through for a really long time. Now. I just want to point out that when we say that you were overweight and how skinny you got, if you. When you guys are reading the book, you also put the pictures there. You put pictures of yourself in the book. So I saw it. I was like. And I also think that's very brave because as a woman, we get judged all the time. If you're too fat, if you're thin, if you gain five pounds, we judge ourselves and the world judges us. So when I saw that you put the pictures, I'm like, wow. That's because everybody can see the difference. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I mean, it's one thing to read it. It's another thing to visually, you know, to look at it with your own eyes and say, wow.

Yeah.

Like, you know, that something drastic must have happened this is the days before diet drugs. Right. So something drastic must have happened to have, you know, well over a hundred pound difference in a young girl.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I know it's, it's shocking, but most people, I mean, when they go to Weight Watchers and I, I maybe or I don't know if your doctor was coming from a good place or not, they, it doesn't mean they're gonna transform that, that weight loss journey into a full blown battle with anorexia.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You go to Weight Watchers and you're like, I hope it's gonna do me some good and help me lose weight. What do you think happened in your case? That it became an obsession to you? Right? Yes.

[Unknown]

Well, I think that actually it was due in part to my diet journey, beginning with Weight Watchers. I have strong feelings about Weight watchers in the 90s that I haven't really gone into yet. But I do believe that Weight watchers in the 90s was the start of many people's eating disorders. That being said, what happened at Weight Watchers is it taught me to look at food as numbers instead of nourishment, and it taught me to treat food as a mathematical equation instead of food being something that, instead of teaching me how to eat and stop when I'm full or eat intuitively, it did none of that. It teaches you how to make food into numbers and then end when you've reached the limitations of your mathematical equation. And that worked for me. And my mind is very mathematical. And the counting, I do have little bits and pieces of ocd, which very controllable, not full blown ocd, but I like things, I like numbers, and numbers make me feel safe. So that worked for me and immediately it transformed my way of eating into just mathematical equations. And my joy of food completely disappeared. And the way that I ate completely transformed into just math.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So when you started going to Weight Watchers, you started seeing the weight was dropping, you went to Weight Watchers, started.

[Unknown]

The first week on Weight Watchers, I lost nine pounds and basically Weight Watchers.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Lost for a week. I know. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but as I was reading your book, I was like, obviously, I think any outsider can see that this is not healthy. Like, nine pounds in a week is a ton of weight.

[Unknown]

It cannot be significantly overweight.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, but still it cannot possibly be healthy to do that. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I mean, there are so many things that happened that made me go from dieting to anorexia or from like a casual diet to obsessive. A lot of things happened it was almost like a perfect storm. It was like the. The weight shaming, and then the. The fact that it started just like that. Like, the day I got weight shamed, I went to Weight Watchers, and by the next week, I had already lost that pound. The positive reinforcement that I got from every single person in my life, despite the fact that what I was doing was so harmful to my body, because I was a teenage girl eating maybe 1200 calories a day, probably a thousand, and that's not even enough to support your organ function and much less like a healthy, developing teenage girl. So I was doing all these horrible things to myself, and I couldn't. Like, people just could not stop telling me how great the results were. So it's just like your head is not able to think logically and rationally, especially as a teenager, you know? So I think that I just. I never knew how to get out of it. And then once I did lose so much weight. So on Weight Watchers, before college started, I went out in April. I left for college in August. I lost 50 pounds, and college was a total roller coaster of weight gain and weight loss. And I'm not talking 3 pounds, 5 pounds. I'm talking like 30 pounds up, 25 down. 25 up, 30 down. It was horrific.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God. It's interesting that you say that, that everybody was encouraging and supporting you, because I have the same perspective. I think we live in a world that people, of course, they see us from the outside in, and everybody glorifies thin women. I remember in my life a few Years ago, in 2017, when my mom passed away and my husband passed away, I lost a ton of weight. It wasn't on purpose. Like, I couldn't eat because of stress. So I literally went from having, like, 1£18. I was £111. And I was so sick, so sick. And I remember. And now I look at the photos. I was getting photo shoots. I was on the COVID of two magazines, People. I was getting more endorsements, like, on social media than I do now, and people are like, wow, look at her. Because I literally. They would send me a size 0 dress, and they were, like, taping it on the back, and I was. I was almost dying, and everybody was complimenting me. And I remember thinking, wow, if people only knew the pain that I'm going through that I can't swallow food. So now, as a woman, supposed to.

[Unknown]

Say, you know what? Let me take a break from this. I know everyone around you is telling you how amazing you look. Not only do you not want that to stop. But gaining weight at that point feels like you failed everyone. Yeah, right. Like, oh, what happened? You were doing so well, you know, so going back to healthy habits or doing something healthy for yourself is almost like failure. So it's a really twisted dynamic when it comes to losing weight in unhealthy.

[Cat Zamuto]

It really is.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So you're going through college, you're watching the weight drop, you're watching your pants size drop. You, you talk a lot, a lot about that in the book. I love it. But do you remember, do you have a memory in your mind? I know it's obviously slowly became an obsession, but do you remember anything that triggered you or a special moment? They were like, oh my God, this is it. I don't like food. I can't. Because you mentioned like you were putting the poll, you were doing post its.

[Unknown]

With the so that was in college. So college was a computer. So college was very much a roller coaster for me. I did not become anorexic until I was 26 years old and I was living in New York City. I was a young lawyer and I hated being chubby and I just couldn't figure out how to lose weight unless I was on Weight Watchers, which just didn't work for my lifestyle. Living in New York City, I was running around with my friends, I was drinking at night. And so I was trying all kinds of different diets and things would work in the beginning. Back then it was like south beach diet and the Zone and the Atkins and like they just weren't working from my lifestyle. So I decided to try getting and when I, and so I would started cutting out foods and then I started losing weight and I started cutting more and eventually got to the point where I was like, if I just eat as little as possible, I don't have to follow any diet. I just have to eat as little as possible. And then I started really counting calories and count the day I decided to count my calories strictly was the day that everything spiraled because then I got scared to eat anything that I didn't know the nutritional value of and it, it became too restrictive of a lifestyle and I didn't know how to get out of it and I didn't get out of it for another 18 years.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh my God. Yeah, that's, I, I, I cannot imagine. And yeah, you do mention that like for 10 years there were certain foods you wouldn't try and all this, this crazy, crazy things. I want to talk about a few things that I read in the book. That I was like, wow. And I think it's important that we share. For example, you mentioned eating jelly beans.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. That was the only thing I would eat.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God.

[Cat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Jelly beans. It's not even food, right?

[Unknown]

It's like.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's a. It's a bad snack.

[Unknown]

Well, eating became about safety for me, so I didn't care. I lost all the joy of food. Food no longer brought me any joy whatsoever. Food was only. I only ate for the sole purpose of not starving. Absolutely starved. Like, the physical feeling of being starved. As long as I could get rid of that feeling, I didn't what went into my body. So jelly beans were the only, like, treat that I would give myself because I knew how many calories were in each one, and I could sort of, like, play with them in my mouth. It all became a game. Everything with eating was a game. And so I would cut jelly beans in half and just, like, savor them and just eat, like, oh, my God, 10 jelly beans would take me, like, an hour.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

That's crazy. You also talk about when you met your now husband and you guys were dating, you fell in love, and he. Do you think he noticed in the very beginning? Because obviously when you go on dates like you mentioned, they take you to dinner and they order food and they ask, do you want to share a bite? And you were always making excuses about that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, No, I think our first, like, two or three dates, I managed to hide it because I knew on our first actual date that he. That I didn't want to scare him away. He ordered. We went to a Mexican restaurant. He ordered some food for us, and I very. I didn't eat all day. And then I ate a little bit, as little as possible at that meal, but I did eat. And then I just didn't eat anymore the rest of the night. So I would, like, bank calories, you know. But I think after, like, our third date, he started to notice. But, you know, he was a kid in his 20s also, and nobody taught him anything about this. His mom and sister have always been, like, pretty normal eaters, and he had no exposure to eating disorders, you know, So I think that he just thought that I was, you know, he was living in New York City. I mean, New York City has plenty of thin women. So I think maybe he thought, like, oh, like, this is what some women do to stay thin. And it didn't really start to concern him until he saw actually how little I ate. And over the course, you know, when I met him, I was only a few Months into my journey with anorexia. And so I wasn't that thin when I met him, and by the time we got engaged, I was just absolutely emaciated. And I think that it just got so far so fast that he just didn't know what to do.

[Cat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And also, I think when you see a person every single day, you don't really notice as shockingly, like, the weight loss. Like, if I saw you one day and then six months later, you're like, wow, Right? But if you. If you're with a person every day, you kind of, like, life just happens, and you don't really realize that person is like.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And also, it's a little bit overwhelming for, like, a young man, you know, not saying that young men shouldn't help. You absolutely should if someone in your life is struggling. But, like, he's, you know, this guy in his 20s, he's trying to. He's working in finance in the city, trying to support himself, trying to be in a new relationship. And also he's got people asking him, is Jackie okay? Is Jackie okay? You know, And I don't think that he knew enough about, you know, it's not the world we live in today. You know, back then, it was different. And, like, I just don't think he knew enough about how to help someone while it was an eating disorder in order to be able to help me, you know, and that's why I'm doing. Some of what I'm doing is because I want people to know, among many other things, how to help somebody.

[Cat Zamuto]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I think it's very brave of you, for sure. And I'm sure you're going to help a lot of people out there. I saw you actually put a picture on your wedding day. Like, you have this beautiful strapless gown, and you're tossing the bouquet, and I see your arms. I mean, now we look. Because I know you're star. Like, oh, my God. You are so, so, like, beyond skinny. I don't even know the word for that. You are so frail.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And what people don't know is that that skinniness comes with a lot of health problems.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yes, it must. It must.

[Unknown]

I just tried a lot of things in my body by doing that to myself and the prolonged anorexia, a lot of. I caused myself a lot of health issues.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God. That I was thinking about as I'm reading your book. I. I mean, I had tears in my eyes, and I'm like, oh, my God. Because you were so malnourished I, I kept thinking about what is going on inside her body. And then you guys go to the honeymoon, to Italy, right? And you, you also. Another picture that you put in, it's in, in the book, you talk about, like, being this gorgeous place. You're in your honeymoon with the man you love, and there's a huge plate of pasta in front of you guys. And you didn't want to eat the pasta?

[Unknown]

No, I didn't eat any pasta, no. And I brought my 900 page calorie encyclopedia in my bag with me on my honeymoon. I didn't eat anything on that honeymoon. I had, like a tablespoon of sauce. I just had salads. I was so. My mind was, like, warped. It was just completely focused on maintaining my weight. That was my number one priority in life. And after I had children, that became my number two priority in life. Like, it was staying skinny was everything to me because I had such a traumatic experience being overweight as a teenager, and my mind put together being overweight with trauma and loneliness. And so it wasn't a normal response. I had such a fear, such an overwhelming fear of gaining weight. Not just because of what I would look like, but because I equated gaining weight with loneliness.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God. Yeah. No, obviously it's a mental issue. And you actually mentioned that in the book. You meet this guy, it's the guy of your dreams, and you're getting married. Then you're like, oh, my God, he met me skinny. What if I gain weight? You were literally thinking you didn't want to lose him. You thought you might lose him if you gained the way back.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Which is so silly because weight was never anything that he cared about with me.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah, no, for sure. I mean, and I, I, I know we get so, I think we judge ourselves more than anybody else, but obviously, if a guy is madly in love with you and you put a ring on your finger is like, I want to marry you £5 more, £5 less, £10 more. Yeah. It's gonna be like the deal breaker, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it was. But I was so scared because I had never had anyone love me back like that. And I just was so scared of losing him that I didn't listen to anything or anyone. I just did what I wanted.

[Cat Zamuto]

Then.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So you guys decide to have children. That's another thing that I. Because I did not know your story before. So when I'm reading the book and you're like, I want to get pregnant, I'm thinking, oh, how can she carry healthy children? Because her Body must be so malnourished. I was so, like. So as I'm reading the book, I'm reading really fast because I'm like, oh, my God. I want to make sure. I want to know that everything is okay. And you have twice twins.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I had five rounds of ivf. My first round I had twins, and my fifth round, I had twins, and I had nothing in the middle. But I, I really. I remember the first time I got pregnant. Nicole Richie had just gotten pregnant, and this was. She was emaciated. And I kept telling myself, well, Nicole Richie got pregnant so I can get pregnant. And I, I really. Throughout the course of this whole thing, I. I rationalized everything and I made excuses for why my behavior was okay. And that was one of them. Like, other really skinny women get pregnant and have healthy kids. So I don't have anything to worry about. So, yeah, pregnancy was very, very hard for me. It was very hard to justify eating more efficiency.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I can imagine. But your kids were born healthy, thank God, right?

[Unknown]

They were born early, very early, but not very early, but they were born significantly early because it was better for them outside my body. And, and they stayed in the NICU for a little bit. But, yeah, they're healthy.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But when you were pregnant and you're going to the doctor, were they saying something to you, like, you have to eat more, you have to gain weight? Are you, Are you nourishing yourself enough? Did anybody say that to you?

[Unknown]

And so I gained weight with the pregnancies, and I made sure that I lost it all very quickly when I was done. And it was gut wrenching for me to gain the weight, but the only doctor who ever said anything to me was my. My obstetrician. When I first went to him, and he determined that I needed help getting pregnant, he said to me, why don't you try gaining a few pounds? He didn't say, you're too thin. He didn't say, you're malnourished. He said, why don't you try gaining a few pounds first and see if that helps you get pregnant before we go to fertility treatments. And I said, and I said, okay. And then I went home and I just, I couldn't bring myself to eat. I just couldn't do it. So a week later, I called him and I said, I can't do this. Like, I just, I don't want. I don't want to gain weight. It's not going to work. Let's just go for fertility. And so I went to the fertility clinic and, and it worked, thank God. But you know, no, no doctors ever said to me. And I was so, so thin. No doctors ever said to me, are you eating enough? You're way underweight. My heart rate was so low. Nobody ever said, you know, this is dangerous. Your body's not working right, your heart's in danger. Nobody, not one doctor.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

That really surprises me, everything that you were going through that I don't know if they were afraid or I, because I'm not a doctor.

[Unknown]

I think maybe back then it just wasn't a thing, you know, I mean, after I had children, my weight was higher. I was still a size 0, but I was in children's clothing when I was. Before I had kids, I was in children's clothing. I couldn't shop in regular stores anymore. I was in the teen department. And after I had kids, my body settled at a higher weight, so I was still a size zero. But I was, you know, if you looked at me, you couldn't immediately see like anorexia. The way that you look at some women and you're like, wow, you are way too thin. It wasn't like that. It was like, she's really thin. But like, you could ignore it. You could totally ignore it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And you thought so as you're living your life and you're raising your kids, you mentioned, for example, never sharing ice cream with them. Of course you're not snacking with them. You, you thought. But you were, you were measuring their food, right? You had the scale at home. You're measuring your kids food.

[Unknown]

Food. Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because I didn't know how to. And food gave me a lot of anxiety and I didn't trust myself to feed my kids enough because I didn't feed myself. So I wanted to make sure they were getting enough. And so I was measuring out their food because that's how I lived. I measured out everything that I did.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I measured out everything they did. And it wasn't until, you know, I made a half assed attempt at recovery when I was about, I think, like 36, 37 years old, I made an attempt and I wasn't ready for it and I didn't go anywhere with it. But the one thing that the dietitian did help me with was to stop measuring my kids food and to let them tell me when they were full and when they were hungry. And it was the best thing that could have come out of that. So I stopped all of that. But that was really hard for me. Feeding my kids was a nightmare. A nightmare. Because when they would stop eating. I got so nervous. I got so nervous that they were going to be malnourished like me and I just, I didn't know what to do with that.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh my God.

[Cat Zamuto]

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[Unknown]

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[Jackie Goldschneider]

So fast forward, you are going through all of this and you're battling this major, major issue. You're hoping nobody notices, right? You're just living your life. You get a call to be on the one of the most successful television franchises which is the Real Housewives on New Jersey. You get a call and an invitation to go on the show. So, so I have a few questions about that. My first thought was why did you decide to do it? I mean, considering everything that you were going through, weren't you afraid? Because I mean, you know, it's like you, you, you jump on fire on that show. Were you afraid? I mean because obviously, the women can be vicious. Weren't you afraid, like, they're going to notice? They're going to trash me. This is going to be too much.

[Unknown]

No. My first question was, do you keep cameras at my house? Because I knew that if I was on surveillance 24 hours a day, there was no way that I could hide this. And it was my biggest secret, so I wouldn't have done it. But they only film you when you are filming a scene for the show. And I had had already at that point, 15 years of experience with being anorexic. I knew how to hide it. I knew how to save up my food. For the one time that people would be watching me keeping this secret was that after my children and my marriage, it was the biggest priority of my life. So I knew how to hide it. So I wasn't worried. I really wasn't worried about that. And, you know, the truth is that there's so many women with not eating disorders, but disordered eating that I felt like it would just. Especially in the reality TV world, right? I could just blend it in to, like, how everyone else is being.

[Cat Zamuto]

Why did you want to do the show?

[Unknown]

A lot of reasons, but I think the first and foremost was that I was just looking for something different in my life. I had very big goals that I didn't know how to achieve. I needed doors opened that I could not open on my own. And also, I had spent my life chasing the acceptance that I didn't have when I was a teenager. Right. So I spent four years really being an outcast, and I never really got over that. And so I was always looking for that validation and that acceptance and for people, you know, to finally be, like, you know, not the popular girl, but, like, to finally be more than just like, the average, you know, just like mom.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, sure.

[Unknown]

And here's this, like, opportunity that's gonna make me into a star overnight. It was so enticing. And, yeah, fame was just.

[Cat Zamuto]

It just.

[Unknown]

It was overnight, like, my world changed.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, I'm sure. I have to say that I watched the show a really long time ago. Many, many, many years ago. I think I was still married. I don't even remember when it was. And there was a scene that Teresa, like, flipped the table, and some. It was, like, huge chaos. They were, like, screaming and yelling at each other. And after that day, I never watched it again. And I tell you why, because I think because of everything that I've been through, I'm all about women empowerment. Like, women helping each other, women supporting Each other. All my work, everything I do is about that. And when I saw the way they were treating each other on the show, I was like, I understand wanting to be on tv. I agree. It's such a fantastic platform for your projects, for opening doors. I support all of that. But when I saw the way they were treating each other, especially some of them, I was like, oh, my God, this is just too awful. Do they need to be doing this on tv? So when you jumped in and as I was reading your book, I haven't watched your scenes I haven't seen. I just know what I know from the book. I. As I'm reading the page, I'm like, these women are gonna pounce on her because not only she's new, but the minute that I don't think they're gonna be supportive because they want, you know, I think the show, of course, the show thrives on drama. I was like, oh, my God, this is going to unfold not in a good way for Jackie. This is what I was reading, like.

[Unknown]

When you finished show like this, you don' about the bad parts, everybody thinks they're going to come in as the voice of reason. Yeah, everybody thinks they're going to come in and unite everyone and have a great time. And I did have some great times on this show, but, yes, it is not for everyone. And I think I did a really good job of handling myself over the years. And I tried not to get too far into the mud, but, yeah, I mean, like, I know what I signed up for.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, you. You talk about messy sometimes. Let's give people some examples for those who haven't watched. And by the way, I'm gonna go and watch it because now I want to see the scenes you imagine. Because I do agree, I think, at least from the book, you, you, you did an amazing job going through it, and then you end up, you know, opening to the entire world. But in the beginning, you mentioned, like, you guys are having breakfast. You. You went on a trip. I forgot where that trip was.

[Unknown]

And I just. Breakfast has always been a really difficult meal. You know, eating disorders are very dual. So just for your audience, first of all, they are a mental illness. And anorexia is the. As of last year, I know it was the number one most fatal mental illness in the United States. So, you know, a lot of this stuff won't make sense to other people, but for me, there were so. It's so nuanced and like, breakfast, starting my day off heavy was like a non starter. Right. So I would like, board calories to the end of the day. But starting with a heavy meal, I just. I couldn't bring myself to do it. So when I had to have breakfast on camera, it was a very big problem for me.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And you mentioned this one trip that you wrote about in the book. There's, like, all this food, and there is bacon, whatever, eggs, and there's no fruit. And you're like, what am I going to eat? What am I going to eat? And you kind of grab a bag of, like, snack seeds.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Like vegetable chips.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And I think the other women, at that point, they're kind of beginning to wonder. Right. How come Jackie doesn't eat?

[Unknown]

Yes. That was, I think, the first time that people started discussing on camera whether or not I. Yeah. And I didn't know that those conversations were being had. I thought I was still flying under the radar.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So when you find out that they're talking about you behind your back, were you worried? Like, oh, my God, I don't want this to be.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I.

[Unknown]

When they confronted me with it, I had in my head, a nervous breakdown, and I stayed pretty calm, and I had my stories ready to go, and I explained everything away, and that was. That was good. And one that put a, you know, a period on the end of the sentence, and then we all moved on. But I. Before my fourth season started, I was. I had gone through, you know, a really tumultuous time. I had lost more weight. I was. I knew that my health was failing. And I said, you know, if I don't stop soon, I'm never going to stop. I was already 45 years old. And I said, how am I ever going to stop? And I said, you know what? If I do this in front of the whole world, I'll stop, because I won't show people that it's too hard to recover. Like, I'll never start a recovery journey and then fail in front of the whole world, because I know that there's people watching me who need that hope. Right. So for all of the tumultuous things that you could go through on a reality show and for all of the days that I came home and cried on this show, every single bit of it was worth it, because I truly believe that I would not have had the strength to recover if I had not decided to do it in front of the whole world.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, no, for sure. And when you got to that point, I kind of agreed with you. Like, I see. Okay, at least she got help. But. And for people that haven't Read the book yet? I think the turning point of everything was that your husband ended up getting involved in the chaos. Right. There was some gossip by some housewives. One of them started this horrible gossip that your husband was cheating on you. Yeah, right. And he's way more private than you. He didn't even want to get tangled up in this chaos. And his name was being thrown around.

[Unknown]

And it was a lot for my family. He was very, very upset. And his happiness means everything to me. And I had promised him when I started the show that it was not going to be about him. It would not involve him. He just had to be, you know, showing, supporting me. And he was so messed up in it, and he was so upset about it. So not only was I fighting for work, but I was coming home and fighting with my husband. And then my kids were seeing it and, like, we really don't fight. So my kids were crying, they were upset. Everyone was afraid that we were going to get divorced. My daughter would go to sleep crying. You know, it was. It was like a never ending nightmare. And. And I just didn't know how to handle it. And my default way of handling things is to stop eating. So when I stopped eating, it felt like I was. It felt like the only way to punish myself enough that I could not feel guilty about all the chaos that I caused.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So how did you resolve it? And they're talking about your husband on the show. Obviously, it's a public show. People are talking about it on social media. It's total chaos. It's gossip, it's nasty. How do you calm everything down and you get to the conclusion, okay, I'm gonna do something good out of this and I'm gonna get help. What was the change that that allowed?

[Unknown]

I mean, I will say first that, like, the cycle of being upset about something that happens on a reality show is kind of short, you know, like you can do something bad on a reality show and, like, people move on to the next thing pretty quickly. So that's first. I mean, once Evan received the apology that he needed and sort of like the other person said, you know, it wasn't. I didn't have any facts to base this on.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So she just started, like, photographing.

[Unknown]

So I let that move into my path to get to the point where I was like, let me do something good with this. I think I just needed to say it out loud on camera. And once I did, there was no closing that door. It was the first time that I really said it out loud, you know, so. And then Once I was really far enough into my treatment, I was not recovering yet. When I started writing this book, once I was far enough into my treatment, I said, I, you know, I was in a place where still. I'm still suffering and I was still learning how to come out of this. But I wanted to be raw. I wanted it like that when I started writing. So that's why I think it's so raw, is because I was still pretty sick when I started writing this book. And then by the time I finished, I don't. I will tell you, I'm not 100% recovered. I'm about 80%. Right. I still have, you know, irrational food fears sometimes. I do not have an eating disorder anymore. I think I do not restrict myself. I do not. I'm not underweight. No. You look like I'm at a very healthy weight. My health has been restored, but I still have, you know, after 30 years of, you know, thinking one way, that's something. It takes a long time.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I think it's a lifetime journey of recovering.

[Unknown]

Right? Yeah. But I do feel like you can fully recover.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

100% fully recover.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, you're living proof of it, because you look incredible. You look super happy. You look super beautiful.

[Unknown]

I feel good. And it's, you know, aside from, like, the physical, the mental aspect of being able to go on vacation and not worry that you're going to come home two pounds heavier, not spend your vacation in the hotel gym. I mean, we just booked a trip to Spain and I didn't even check the hotels to see if they had gyms. I don't care. I don't exercise when I'm, like, on a trip like that with my children because I don't want to take that time away from them, you know, so to have that freedom and that flexibility, to get a call on a Tuesday with a friend asking, do you want to come to dinner? There's no chance that I would have said yes in my past because on a Tuesday night, I don't eat like that. Right. But now there's no more rules, you know, and just to have that freedom back in my life is just. I can't explain how life changing.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So now you actually get to enjoy food a little more. You get to eat out. You mentioned something so beautiful in your book. Like, you finally decided to take your kids for ice cream, and you're like, oh, should Mommy get one? Because before, you never even got ice cream with your kids, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You taste the ice cream and like, oh, it tasted like heaven. I Thought that was so adorable.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I liked sharing my firsts. I had my first piece of pizza I shared with my son in Italy. And just sharing those things with my children. And, you know, it's also my attempt to normalize. I. You know, I did a lot of damage to them over the years, letting them watch me for over a decade. And the way that I was eating was just so terrible. And I know that there's things in there, you know, stored in their head that. Of the way that mommy ate when. When they were kids. And, you know, I don't pretend that that didn't happen. So now I'm just trying to show them the way that, you know what healthy eating looks like.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. No, I think it's amazing. I. One time I forgot where I read that, but with some nutritionist that when I was going through this horrible time that I couldn't eat and this is what helped me get back to normal, that she mentioned that food is not bad and it's not good. It's not your enemy. It's nothing is just something that nourishes us and allows us to be healthy and live our lives. And that phrase stayed with me because that's what keeps me. It's the lifestyle. Right. I don't overeat. And I'm never on a diet. I just enjoy it in moderation, in bits and pieces, like most of the time healthy. One in a million years. Indulge. And if it has worked for me ever since, and I never forgot that phrase.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's where I am heading for sure. You know, I'm learning. I still get nervous sometimes that my weight is going to spiral. I get nervous. You know, I get nervous because of all the diet drugs. It's hard to be a person whose body is getting larger in a world full of people whose bodies are getting smaller. And I don't ever want or intend to take any of those drugs. But it's hard knowing, you know, sometimes I feel like the whole world is going to end up on them. And I'm going to be the only person who's still struggling with weight. And, you know, it's scary. It's a scary world. And there's. Like you said, there's a lot. We idolize thin bodies. So it is. It is a struggle, but it's definitely a worthwhile struggle.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God. And you, you did a super brave thing opening up. I'm sure you're going to help so many people out there who are going through that and don't know how to seek help. I think it's our job as communicators to open up as much as we can. Because if, you know you're helping save a life out there, you're doing something so beautiful. I have to ask you something. My curiosity. The whole gossip. I thought that was so mean and so horrible.

[Unknown]

The.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

The gospel by your husband. So she just pulled that out of thin air?

[Unknown]

In my personal opinion, no. I think another cast member on the show started the rumor, and I think a second cast member repeated the rumor.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, God.

[Unknown]

And when you repeat it on the air, then the whole world starts saying it. So she heard it from someone.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

And where that first person heard it from, I don't even know. People love to talk. They love to start problems. If there's one thing I'm sure of in my life, it's that my husband never cheated on me. And.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, you got so.

[Unknown]

I mean, I never questioned him. I was only upset about the fact that had been started, but I never. I never worried for a second about my husband.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, no. You guys have, like, the most beautiful fairy tale, which I also loved because I love reading stories about happy couples, and I believe in karma. That's all I'm gonna say about the people that start nasty rumors like that about a couple. It's such an honor having you here. I have to say. Congratulations. Your book is amazing. Where can people find it? The Weight of Beautiful Gu. Go read it, even if you're not going.

[Unknown]

So there's. The paperback is out now, but the hardcover and the audible, which I recorded myself, you can get them anywhere books are sold, but Amazon's the easiest. Barnes and Noble, independent bookstores, everywhere. It's a really great book. And it's not just for people with eating disorders. It's anybody who has ever lost themselves and found themselves again. It's really a great story.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I agree. Even if you're not going through an eating disorder, read it, because whatever it is that you're going through, it's going to inspire you that you can actually get out of it and rebuild your life. I'm living proof, in my case, rebuilding after an abusive marriage. You are major living proof in your case that you can be gorgeous and healthy and recover. Thank you, Jackie. Such an honor. Connecting.

[Unknown]

This is such a great conversation.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Are you going back to the show.

[Unknown]

By the way, if the show comes back? Right now we're on pause, and we're not really sure if they're recasting, if they're bringing the show back. So we'll see if they invite me back. I would love to come back.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, congratulations. It's such an honor. Have you guys. The link to find her Instagram is here on the audio episode. If you're listening to the audio episode, make sure you go to YouTube Canada's show so you can watch the video. Her gorgeous face because you look way younger than your age. You look fantastic.

[Cat Zamuto]

Congratulations.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I wish you all the success in the world. It was such an honor having you.

[Unknown]

Thank you. Thank you so much, guys.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Be safe out there and I'll see you soon. Love you.

[Cat Zamuto]

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[Jackie Goldschneider]

So if you're planning a trip to.

[Cat Zamuto]

Las Vegas, let me hook you up with Table 1, and you are going to love it. Don't forget, send me a message.