Welcome to Hollywood - a Survival Guide by Entertainment Attorney Paul Miloknay

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Welcome to Hollywood - a Survival Guide by Entertainment Attorney Paul Meloknay"

Kat on the Loose Sex, Dating & Relationships
Host: Kat Zammuto
Guest: Paul Meloknay, Entertainment Attorney and Author
Release Date: October 30, 2024

In this insightful episode of Kat on the Loose, host Kat Zammuto welcomes Paul Meloknay, a seasoned entertainment attorney with over 25 years of experience in Hollywood. Paul shares his expertise from his newly released book, "Welcome to Hollywood: A Survival Guide for Aspiring Writers," providing invaluable advice for anyone looking to break into the competitive entertainment industry.

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1. Introduction to Paul Meloknay and His Book

Kat introduces Paul Meloknay, highlighting his extensive experience and his book designed to help aspiring writers navigate the complexities of Hollywood.

• Kat [02:05]: "It's a really fun read, very easy to read, very quick, but packed with essential, crucial information so you don't fall in the wrong hands and make amateurish mistakes."

2. Common Mistakes in the Entertainment Industry

Paul emphasizes the critical mistake many newcomers make: failing to secure agreements in writing. Relying solely on verbal arrangements can lead to unintended contracts, especially when dealing with industry professionals.

• Paul [04:44]: "One really obvious one is that failing to get something in writing… you could have unwittingly created a contract."

He advises always documenting agreements via emails or formal contracts to protect one's work and interests.

3. Navigating Con Artists and Protecting Your Work

The entertainment industry, while filled with genuine opportunities, also harbors con artists looking to exploit unsuspecting talents. Paul discusses the prevalence of dishonest individuals who promise success in exchange for access to scripts or ideas.

• Paul [06:25]: "If you get in business with the wrong person, they'll tell you everything you want to hear… to get their hands on your work for free."

To safeguard against such risks, Paul recommends:

• Using Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs).

• Registering ideas with the Writers Guild to establish ownership.

• Paul [07:52]: "Anybody can submit to the Writers Guild. It doesn't give you any membership rights, but it is a good way to establish that you came up with the idea first."

4. Verifying Industry Professionals

Understanding who you're dealing with is paramount. Paul advises using resources like IMDb Pro to verify the credibility and background of industry contacts.

• Paul [08:27]: "You can look up who they are, what they've worked on, who they're connected with… If they don't have any kind of profile, that's very suspicious."

This step helps in identifying legitimate professionals versus potential scammers.

5. Debunking the Myth of Overnight Success

A prevalent misconception in Hollywood is the notion of overnight success. Paul clarifies that true success often requires years of dedication, perseverance, and building a solid reputation.

• Sean [09:29]: "The famous quote, overnight success in Hollywood takes 15 years."

He highlights that most "overnight successes" have a long history of hard work and gradual progress that isn't always visible to the public.

6. Building Relationships and Securing Representation

Success in Hollywood is heavily reliant on networking and establishing strong relationships. Paul outlines strategies for aspiring writers to connect with agents and managers effectively.

• Paul [12:22]: "Start looking for representation and then also beyond that just building a network of friends, people who can help you in the business."

He suggests:

• Researching managers who specialize in your genre.

• Sending compelling query letters without attaching scripts initially.

• Paul [14:00]: "It's a numbers game… It's kind of like dating. If you bat a hundred, you're doing well."

7. Embracing Rejection and Maintaining Resilience

Rejection is an integral part of the entertainment industry. Paul stresses the importance of developing resilience and using rejection as motivation to improve.

• Paul [15:23]: "It's a failure business… You have to be able to accept rejection."

He encourages writers to view each "no" as a stepping stone towards eventual success.

8. Understanding Script Optioning and Its Implications

Paul breaks down the concept of script optioning, explaining how it works and its significance in the industry.

• Paul [21:23]: "An option is a right to purchase something, in this case, a script for a set price, a pre-negotiated price within a set period of time."

He highlights that while optioning can buy time for producers to develop projects, most scripts get passed on, emphasizing the competitive nature of the industry.

• Paul [23:08]: "Some of these places get hundreds if not more scripts per week, and they pass on well over 99% of them."

9. The Importance of Quality and Originality in Scripts

To stand out, scripts must not only adhere to structural norms like the three-act structure but also possess an intangible quality that makes them memorable.

• Paul [24:37]: "It's a combination of things… the pacing and the dialogue and the twists and turns… how it makes you feel at the end."

He advises writers to focus on originality and a strong emotional core rather than chasing current trends.

• Paul [39:37]: "I wouldn't try to follow trends at all. I would write what's important to you because the writing will speak for itself."

10. Consistency in Writing: The Kaizen Approach

Drawing from Japanese philosophy, Paul introduces the concept of Kaizen—making small, consistent improvements—to foster steady progress in writing.

• Paul [26:51]: "Kaizen is the concept of creating massive change in tiny little increments."

He illustrates how writing a few pages daily can lead to substantial progress over time, advocating for persistence over perfection.

11. Words of Encouragement and Final Advice

Paul concludes by reinforcing the message that persistence, resilience, and continuous improvement are key to succeeding in Hollywood. He urges aspiring writers to believe in their stories and keep pushing forward despite challenges.

• Paul [29:44]: "It's not easy. It requires a lot of persistence and… a thick skin. But people do it every day…"

Kat echoes this sentiment, encouraging listeners to pursue their dreams with dedication and patience.

• Kat [43:10]: "Follow your dreams and don't give up. Right, Paul?"

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for aspiring writers and entertainment professionals. Paul Meloknay's expertise provides listeners with practical strategies to navigate the industry's hurdles, from protecting their work to building meaningful connections. The emphasis on persistence, quality, and continuous improvement offers a realistic yet hopeful perspective for those aiming to make their mark in Hollywood.

For a deeper dive into these topics and more practical advice, consider reading Paul's book, "Welcome to Hollywood: A Survival Guide for Aspiring Writers," available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other major retailers.

Transcript

[Kat]

My guest today, Paul Melock and I.

[Sean]

Is one of the most successful entertainment attorneys working in Hollywood and he wrote.

[Kat]

A really cool book called welcome to Hollywood, A survival guide for aspiring writers and for everyone and anyone interested in working in the entertainment industry and actually succeeding. It's a really fun read, very easy to read, very quick, but packed with essential, crucial information so you don't fall in the wrong hands and make amateurish mistakes. I hope you guys enjoy this really fun, great episode with the super talented Paul Milaknai.

[Sean]

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[Kat]

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[Sean]

Paul, welcome to Cat on the Loose. Such an honor having you here.

[Paul Melock]

Oh, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Sean]

I know how busy you are, so I'm very grateful. So let's talk about your incredible book. Welcome to Hollywood. But first, I want to for people that don't know you, that never heard about your work, you've been an entertainment attorney for a really long time.

[Paul Melock]

Over 25 years now.

[Sean]

Oh my God. So you've seen it all in this industry?

[Paul Melock]

Pretty much.

[Sean]

Pretty much. So how did you decide you were going to write a book?

[Paul Melock]

It came really spontaneously, but kind of from a couple of places. One, I've always had a soft spot for the younger writers, the ones who are just starting out. And sort of the flip side of that was frustration because when I would work with younger writers, they usually came to me with a lot of problems that they could have avoided fairly easily if they knew what to do. So that's really what inspired me to write the book and sort of, you know, to sort of guide people through that process and avoid, you know, some costly mistakes.

[Sean]

Yeah, which a lot of people make for sure. But I know you wrote it as a survival guide for aspiring writers, but when I was reading it and I think I mentioned it to you, I think it applies to pretty much anyone that wants to work in the entertainment industry because it's very, very good advice and very good ideas on how to navigate the industry.

[Paul Melock]

Well, thank you. And truth be told, I originally intended it to cover all different fields and decided to just focus in on writers for the time being. And I anticipate doing more books for directors, actors, influencers and those type of people.

[Sean]

So welcome to Hollywood is probably going to be a series of a bunch of books.

[Paul Melock]

That's my hope. Yeah.

[Sean]

Amazing. Okay, so let's start with this one. Welcome to Hollywood for aspiring writers. Although, like I said, anybody out there who is interested in working in the entertainment industry or even people who are not that want to know the behind the scenes. This is really awesome. And I like it that it reads really quickly because nowadays people have like the attention span of like a few minutes. Right. But I love how it's like very fast paced. I literally read it like the same day very quickly. But you packed up a lot of information there. So first question, 25 years in the industry, like you said, you met probably dozens and dozens and dozens of writers and like you said, you see them making a lot of mistakes. Is there like one top primary mistake that people trying to get successful in this industry make?

[Paul Melock]

That's a good question. Because there's a couple things jump to mind. One really obvious one is that failing to get something in writing, surprisingly, you know, people enter into verbal arrangements all the time and they are enforceable. So if you think it's not important or you know, it's just talk, you know, you could have unwittingly created a contract.

[Sean]

Oh, really?

[Paul Melock]

With someone.

[Sean]

But how do you prove that?

[Paul Melock]

Well, that's the trouble. And that's why you need to get things in writing, because the writing proves what you agreed to. So I tell writers if they can't get someone to sign something, at a minimum send them an email and get them to reply to it. Yeah.

[Sean]

Instead of talking on the phone.

[Paul Melock]

Right, Exactly. Yeah. Even if you have a phone conversation, confirm it with an email right after. It doesn't create a contract, but it's good evidence of what you guys agreed to.

[Sean]

So you think some people get Here. And they have, let's say, a great script or a great book, and they fall in the wrong hands and they get promised a lot of. Because unfortunately, this industry has a lot of con artists. Right. A lot of amazing, wonderful people. Yeah. A lot of con artists. So they promise you the sun, the moon, and the stars, and obviously, a lot of people fall for it because they see the dollar signs and they're seeking success. And then what do they do? They give this person the script.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah, they'll give them. In one way or another. They'll give this. We'll call them a producer. You know, either an option which involves paying money.

[Sean]

Right. We're going to talk about that. That's one of my questions. But hold on.

[Paul Melock]

Or what's called a shopping agreement, where it's just basically the free right to shop the project buyers. And. Yeah. If you get in business with the wrong person, they'll tell you everything you want to hear. And.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Paul Melock]

In order to get their hands on your work for free.

[Sean]

I also heard, and I don't know if that's true because it never happened to me, but when I was, you know, because, you know, I wrote a script and. Out of my book, and a bunch of people told me, be careful. Don't tell everybody about your project, because they will literally steal your idea. Like just talking to someone, oh, I wrote a book about, blah, blah, blah. If they think it's a good idea, they'll just go and plagiarize your work and do it first. Have you ever heard of stories like that? Does it really happen?

[Paul Melock]

They're rare, but, yeah, that does happen, you know, which is why people use NDAs and other types of things to protect their work. I always recommend that if you have an idea, write it down in as much detail as you can and register it with the Writers Guild.

[Sean]

Oh, really? Even people that are not a part of the Writers Guild?

[Paul Melock]

Yes, anybody can submit to the Writers Guild. It doesn't give you any membership rights, but it is a good way to establish that you came up with the idea first.

[Sean]

Oh, wow. See, even I didn't know that. So I'm gonna go register my ideas. I don't even know if Sean knew that. Did you know that, Sean? That's a very good one because it's a very competitive industry. And I know everybody's out there. You know, they want to make money now. So that's the next question. How do you know you're not falling in the wrong hands?

[Paul Melock]

Well, sometimes it's hard to know if someone intends to deceive you. They'll probably get away with it, at least for a while. But you can do your homework. You know, there's. You can look on IMDb Pro, which is a paid service from Amazon, but it's worth it. It's about 100 changes, like 10.

[Sean]

It's 10 bucks a month. I agree. It's so worth it.

[Paul Melock]

And you can look up who they are, what they've worked on, who they're connected with. And you know, if they don't have any kind of profile, you know, that's very suspicious.

[Sean]

Right?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. You should probably, you know, move on.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's a really good one. I agree. I use it all the time. And 90, I think 99 of the people that work in entertainment have a good IMDb profile, or at least everything that they worked on there. Right. Even. And I know a lot of people don't know that. They think this is a directory just for actors, for talent, but it's not true. It's also for like, people like you.

[Paul Melock]

Yep. Attorneys, agents, PR people. Yeah. Anyone who's connected to talent or production will be in there.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's fantastic advice as well. I completely agree. Now, somebody, you know, thousands of people show up here every week, every day. I think a lot of them think it's easy. Right. We've heard that. That's one of the quotes that I love from your book. The famous quote, overnight success in Hollywood takes 15 years. And I think a lot of people get here and I think you mentioned that in the book, they're like, oh, I'm going to give this a year or something. I've heard many people say that. Like, I hear 20 something year olds say, like, oh, but I've been trying so hard. It's been like two years.

[Paul Melock]

It's usually not enough time. I mean, unless you get incredibly lucky, it's gonna, it's a process, you know, building your resume, getting people to know you, getting people to respect you as an artist. And that's. There's no shortcut for that.

[Sean]

I agree there are the rare cases, yes. Of people that have become overnight successes, but that's a very rare exception. Correct.

[Paul Melock]

Well, usually when you hear about an overnight success, it has been years in the making. They just don't tell you that part. You know, the PR people and the agents, you know, the agents especially want to make you believe they conjured success out of nothing. And, you know, no disrespect to agents, but, you know, that's, you know, very rare. Makes for a better Story.

[Sean]

Yeah, for sure. So what would you say to these people that get here full of hopes and dreams and a lot of them don't know anything about the industry. They just think they're gonna make it big and it's gon to be easy and it's going to be a quick process. What would be a first, reasonable first step, like you got here and you. Because that's one thing, right? A friend of mine who is an Oscar winning, I'm going to connect with him, an Oscar winning movie director, he said that everybody tells him I have an Oscar winning script, I have an award winning story to tell. Everybody thinks their story is award winning. So okay, what would be a first step for somebody that thinks they have an award winning story and wants to succeed?

[Paul Melock]

Well, I mean it's a relationship business. And so probably the first thing I would advise is start looking for representation and then also beyond that just building a network of, you know, friends, you know, people who can help you in the business.

[Sean]

But Paul, that's really tough, right? Like I agree it's totally about relationships but like people that get here. Well, we know I've been here now back many years. I grew up in this industry. I left for 15 years during my marriage, now I'm back. God knows how hard it is to build these relationships. And like you said, knock on doors and have people listen to you, even listen to you because competition is so insane. How do you make that happen.

[Paul Melock]

Again? There's no shortcuts. I advise if you're trying to say get a manager, is to do your homework about the managers who handle your kind of material. Because some will specialize in animation, some will specialize in horror, you know, so you want to get with someone who fits what you, what you write. And once you've got a list of those and I, I say just, you know, send a query letter, tell them who you are, you know, briefly and you know what you're working on and ask if they'd be interested in reading anything. Don't send the script with your first correspondence.

[Sean]

So is this considered a solicitation? Because I know a lot of these managers, agents, all the big cheeses, of course there's even on their website is like no soliciting, we don't care. Don't send unsolicited materials. We're not going to read it. The big agents, they're even like we're going to throw it in the trash. We're not going to even open it.

[Paul Melock]

Which no, that's why you have to, to Ask first.

[Sean]

So you send an image of saying, would you be interested in reading something?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. You'd give them a little, you know, a log line, some little description of what the project is, and, you know, obviously you want to write it in a way that's compelling and makes them want to read it.

[Sean]

Yeah. So kind of like just cold trying it, you think, just reach out. Reach out. Reach out.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And that's.

[Paul Melock]

It's a numbers game. I mean.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Paul Melock]

You know, it's kind of like dating. I mean, if you bat a hundred, you're doing well, but. Yeah, I don't think there's any shortcut. I mean, get out and, you know, meet people. Go to all the industry events you can get yourself invited to.

[Sean]

Network. Network, right.

[Paul Melock]

Just. Yeah. Keep track of people that you meet.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Paul Melock]

You know, people who you think can help you, you know, follow up, you know, that's key. And, you know, do. Do something to get their attention.

[Sean]

I think that's where having major thick alligator skin in this industry is crucial. Because if you don't deal well with rejection, if you don't deal well with people telling you no, I think this industry is not for you. Do you agree?

[Paul Melock]

100%. It's a failure business. You know, just like I said, one in ten, you're doing great. You know, you have to be able to accept rejection. And for writers, also, just criticism. You know, a lot of people are going to have, you know, criticism of your work, and I think you got to be, you know, emotionally mature enough to accept it and when appropriate, use it.

[Sean]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I always say I get messages from people all over the world asking me. Obviously, in my case, they ask a lot about the podcast. How did you get there? No, no, no, because how do you get guests and all these things? And this is what I always say. I think I get maybe a hundred nos. 200 nos for one. Yes.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But I be. I maybe because I grew up in this industry, I don't really care. It doesn't really affect me. Every no is more like I see it like, you know, as logs of wood in my fire that keep me going. That's the way I describe it in my head. Oh, yeah. Okay. That person that said no to me, one of these days they're going to be begging me to come here. But, you know, that's the way I think. And it's the same when I audition for a part. I think I get one movie that I really want and I don't get 2, 300. But you kind of gotta understand that it's part of the game. And it's the same with writing, right?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. Well, I tell my clients all the time, you know, their script will go out to a bunch of places and you get a bunch of passes and I remind them, it's like, well, you only have to get one person to say yes, right? You know, it's. The trick is finding that person.

[Kat]

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[Sean]

Easy.

[Kat]

We love that.

[Sean]

So how does it work? Can you explain for people that never shop the script around? Because you just mentioned it doesn't mean you have to send it to one person. You can shop it around to several different people, correct?

[Paul Melock]

Yep. And depending under the circumstances, sometimes they'll shop it to one person or they'll give one person sort of a first look at it because of the nature of the relationship or they think that that is a likely sale. But generally, you know, and like, especially if the agent's trying to create a bidding war, they'll send it out to a bunch of people at the same time.

[Sean]

And you know, and do they tell these people, like, by the way, we're shopping this around and all of you are seeing it.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And that's what makes the price goes up.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. That's crazy. If you get two or more people interested. Exactly. Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay, so can you explain? Because I know you wrote about that in the book, but I know a lot of people don't know what that is. You mentioned at the beginning, what does it mean to get your work optioned?

[Paul Melock]

Okay, so an option is a right to purchase something, in this case a script for a set price, a pre negotiated price within a set period of time. So if I'm optioning your script, I might pay you $1,000 to. Excuse me, $1,000 to have an option for 12 months. And during that 12 months I'd have the right to take the script around town. And you couldn't allow anyone else to have any rights in. In it.

[Sean]

And it doesn't mean you're going to do anything with it. You can decide right to publish. If it's a book, you can decide to make a movie. It's a movie. Right. You're just buying time basically with that script.

[Paul Melock]

Exactly.

[Sean]

And then after the 12 months, if you did nothing to it, then the script goes back to the person, to the writer.

[Paul Melock]

Exactly.

[Sean]

And then the writer can go and shop that script around.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Does that happen a lot?

[Paul Melock]

Oh, absolutely. You know, where one company will option a script and not be able to get it set up or packaged properly with the right acting talent and Director or whatever it might be and they'll just let the option expire and at that point the writer's free to option it again to whoever they want.

[Sean]

Do you think most scripts in Hollywood stay unpublished or not made? Movies are not made of them and they just get optioned and go back to the person, the big majority?

[Paul Melock]

Oh, yeah. You know, I would say, you know, some of these places get hundreds if not more scripts per week.

[Sean]

Really? Oh my God.

[Paul Melock]

And you know, they pass on well over 99% of them.

[Sean]

Oh, wow. So basically getting your script sold and turned into a movie or getting a book published is like winning the lottery.

[Paul Melock]

Yes, someone actually did. The odds on that and it's, it's not too far off. It's extremely difficult.

[Sean]

Oh, my God. I don't wanna, I don't wanna discourage anybody out there, though.

[Paul Melock]

Me neither. But you know, it's something I talk about in the book is that the bar is incredibly high. You know, it's good. Is not good enough. You know, it has to be great. It has to really stand out and be memorable.

[Sean]

So any tips like, because I know you mentioned something about that in the book. What makes a script stand out from others? Any ideas?

[Paul Melock]

Well, they have to be well written in the sense of, you know, they're looking for certain things when they read a script, like a three act structure, for example, and things like that. But you know, most scripts have that. Beyond that, it's something, you know, something intangible. I just know it when I see it. And I think a lot of readers say the same thing.

[Sean]

So. Yeah, you. I forgot the exact phrase you wrote in the book, but you wrote something like that that you just know when a script.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah, I think, you know, it just pops.

[Sean]

It just pops. And you don't know what pops. You just know something.

[Paul Melock]

I don't think I could explain it to you. No, it's just something. It's a combination of things. I think it's, you know, the pacing and the dialogue and the twists and turns and how it holds your interest and, you know, how it makes you feel at the end, you know, especially.

[Sean]

It's just, I guess some people are better writers than others. I don't know how.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Yeah. You think so?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And so if somebody comes to you and you, you do read a script like one of your clients and you know that it's really, really, really bad, do you tell them, I wish people could see their face now?

[Paul Melock]

No one likes to be the bringer of bad news. Usually I'll be polite yeah. You know, but I'll never come right out and say, this is terrible.

[Sean]

That's the problem. Because you're too nice.

[Paul Melock]

Well, the manager. That's the manager's job.

[Sean]

That's the manager's job.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And they will probably do that, right?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah, they have to.

[Sean]

By the time they get to you, it's usually because you're doing the deal. Because you're right. Your. Your job is you're an entertainment attorney. So by the time a client gets to you, it's because they have something going on. Major.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. Usually there's. I don't get involved until there's a deal to be made.

[Sean]

And that's when you come in. And so usually your clients are. Their scripts become movies.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And books and all that good stuff.

[Paul Melock]

Right.

[Sean]

Oh, okay. So you deal with the crime de la creme. De la creme de la crime.

[Paul Melock]

Well, not always. You know, again, I wrote the book for people who aren't there yet.

[Sean]

Yeah. Like us, 99.9 of the population. But we will get there. I want to talk about this Japanese concept that you explain in the book. I know you love Japanese culture and I do too, but I don't know a lot about it. The little I know is I learned from you. And I think this part is fascinating. So I want you to explain to us. It's this concept called. And tell me if I'm pronouncing this right. Kaizen. Kaizen.

[Paul Melock]

Yes, that's right.

[Sean]

Kaizen.

[Paul Melock]

Right. Yeah. Kaizen is the concept of creating massive change in tiny little increments. And the way I think of it, you know, for a writer, for example, is to write a few pages every day. You don't need a eight hour block of time to write a script. What you need is consistency. And you know, I think I give the example in the book. If you write three pages a day in. In a month, you have a 90 page manuscript.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Paul Melock]

So it accumulates really quickly.

[Sean]

I mean, and writing. And I think it can burn, you know, it's very tiring. Right. And it can make you feel burned really quickly. And I think a lot of writers make the mistake of trying to finish very fast. And I don't know, I think we talked about it one day. I personally think it's unrealistic to sit on a desk and say, I'm going to write eight hours today or six hours.

[Paul Melock]

Nobody does that a day.

[Sean]

Right. But I've heard of people that try to do it.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, but that, that's probably what ends up not being A great result at the end.

[Paul Melock]

Well, I will say every writer has their own process and you know, you sort of whatever works for you, but someone who just sits at a, at a desk for eight hours, I guarantee you they're not writing for eight hours. You know, nobody can do that.

[Sean]

Yeah, it's just too, too crazy. Too much time.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But this concept, I think applies for anything in life, right?

[Paul Melock]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

Don't try to conquer the world in one day. Just do like even I think the other day I was thinking about the skies and when I was trying to exercise and I was thinking, because now I'm trying to lift weights again. And I thought it's the same thing. If you try to have like this perfect body overnight, you're not going to lift like the heaviest weight. But if you start like tiny, tiny bits every day, like after a month, after two months, after three months, you actually have a big improvement. So I actually started applying this for like everything in my life. You know, a little bits and pieces every day.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah, it, it works for everything. And you know, the key is consistency.

[Sean]

Yeah, consistency. So. But if somebody, you're saying only the few get published, of course, it's such a tough industry, so much competition. But I don't want discourage anybody out there because I really believe in going for it and trying and trying and trying, even if it takes 10 years. But do you have any words of encouragement for new writers? Like, if somebody's out there, I'm going to give up. This is too difficult. Maybe they did shop their script around and didn't get anywhere.

[Paul Melock]

Well, like you say, it's not easy. It requires a lot of persistence and, you know, like you said, a thick skin. But people do it. People do it every day, you know, and why can't one of those people be you? You know, I think everyone should try. I think everyone's got at least one good story in them.

[Sean]

I agree.

[Paul Melock]

And if you want to be heard, you should just do it, you know?

[Sean]

Yeah, exactly. Even if you start like as a side gig. Right. If it's not paying the bills, start on the side as opposed to giving up, but just, just keep going for it. Right. Your clients in general, how long did it take them to actually get a script sold?

[Paul Melock]

I mean, it really varies. You know, there are some that, you know, it took 10 years.

[Sean]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Melock]

I just made a deal for a client who sold a script that he wrote 22 years ago.

[Sean]

Oh my God.

[Paul Melock]

And it's been around town at different times and, you know, it's going to.

[Sean]

Be a movie now or a book?

[Paul Melock]

A movie.

[Sean]

A movie. And do you know why, like this would be around for so long before somebody decides to do something with it?

[Paul Melock]

It could be anything, you know, there's trends, you know, sometimes everyone's looking for police procedurals, sometimes everyone's looking for, you know, multi camera comedies also, you know, just social mores, you know, like in this particular case, the main characters are Indian. And so there's a different culture involved there, you know, at different times. People weren't looking for that. Now people are more open minded.

[Sean]

So.

[Paul Melock]

But I've had clients who've sold stuff like right away and it still usually takes two or three years for it to go into production.

[Sean]

After you sell.

[Paul Melock]

After you sell. Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay. So you don't want people to think like, okay, I sold my script today, I'm gonna have this movie like six months from now.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. I mean most options are for 12 or 18 months with a right to extend for more, you know, another 12 or 18 and you know, so count on it. And sometimes they extend from that, you know, so count on taking at least three years.

[Sean]

And what's the average price for an option of a script?

[Paul Melock]

Could be anything.

[Sean]

Anything. Like, can you give us a ballpark? So people have an idea how much money they're going to make for beginning.

[Paul Melock]

Writers could be anywhere from a dollar. A dollar to say $10,000.

[Sean]

That's it. Not like, oh, wow, a dollar. No, come on. Why would anybody option a script for a dollar?

[Paul Melock]

They shouldn't.

[Sean]

They should.

[Paul Melock]

It's basically free, which I, you know, you should never give your work away for free.

[Sean]

Right. You do mention in the book that sometimes, and I do agree with you on that, like many times we look. Because the talent, whether it's writers, actors, whatever it is, we look at the managers, at everybody else like we are doing them a favor. Like we have to beg them, you know, like, represent me, please. I'm not. But it shouldn't be like that. No, I mean, because you're talent, if.

[Paul Melock]

You'Re good enough, you know, you're doing them a favor.

[Sean]

Right. Because they're going to make money from you.

[Paul Melock]

Right. You're the employer in that relationship. They're the employee.

[Sean]

So if somebody offers you like, oh, I'll give you like 100 bucks for your script, whatever, it's usually like a red flag, isn't it?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. I mean, if they're not willing to, if a producer's not willing to put money and have some skin in the game, there's not Much incentive for them to do anything with your material. They'll just be taking it off the market for whatever period of time and you know, when you could be doing something else with it.

[Sean]

But let's say someone has an incredible script. It does happen that it doesn't get optioned. Gets bought right away, right?

[Paul Melock]

Sometimes. Rarely.

[Sean]

Rarely, yeah. Oh, really?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Oh, I did not know that. So it's most of the time scripts get optioned first?

[Paul Melock]

Yes.

[Sean]

Oh, okay. I did not know that.

[Paul Melock]

And I mean. And there's been more of a movement in that direction, you know, over the years. You know, in television now, they don't even option scripts. They do what are called if come deals. So they don't pay you anything unless they sell it to a network.

[Sean]

Oh, my God. So they just get it.

[Paul Melock]

They just get it for free. And that's how the business works. If you want to be in business with the big studios, that's what like the most junior writers have to deal with.

[Sean]

God, that's you. You actually wrote something in the book. Yeah, I didn't want to forget to ask you that. Yeah. You say there is actually a big difference between credit s and written by.

[Paul Melock]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean]

And created by.

[Paul Melock]

Correct.

[Sean]

Like if you get credit written by or if you get credit created by.

[Paul Melock]

It's a little different than that. Credits are very confusing, especially in television. In television, the best credit to get is written by. And that means you wrote both the story for the pilot episode and the teleplay which is based on the story.

[Sean]

Does that mean you're going to get paid more money?

[Paul Melock]

Sometimes, yes, depending on the terms of your deal. But usually yeah, if you get created and whoever gets written by credit on the pilot script gets awarded the created by credit on the series.

[Sean]

Oh, wow. So I mean, all of these things are very intricate. Very complicated. That's why you should have a great entertainment attorney if you are in the point of selling your material. Right?

[Paul Melock]

Absolutely.

[Sean]

Don't try to do everything by yourself.

[Paul Melock]

No, I mean get help, you know, at the earliest possible time. You know, the book is for people who aren't able to do that. And it's not easy to get good representation right off the bat. You know, you need to get your material to them first. It has to be great. And you know, so that. That takes a lot of work.

[Sean]

Yeah. But you do give a lot of great practical ideas, especially towards the end of the book, how people can do that. So I highly recommend, if you guys want to know more, get the book. It's on Amazon. It's on Barnes and Noble. It's all over the place. Even on your website, on Instagram, it's Welcome to Hollywood book. Because you do tell people, like a lot. I don't even remember all of them. But you say do this, do that, do that, go to this website, go to that. There's very practical ways of how to getting your materials in front of the right people. Even how to get the right representation.

[Paul Melock]

That's right. You know, I go through all of that. I try to keep it pithy and made it hopefully a fun read.

[Sean]

It was. It was really fun and.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. And hopefully informative for everyone who reads it.

[Sean]

Yeah, for sure. Have you ever seen a script from one of your clients, like being bought for a lot of money right off the bat? Or can you tell us like, what was the biggest project you ever senior client sell?

[Paul Melock]

I could tell you a little bit.

[Sean]

Okay, spill the tea.

[Paul Melock]

I've had some, like, I've had a couple of clients who hadn't done anything prior who sold their scripts for. For a good amount of money. The biggest deal on the movie side that I ever worked on was.

[Sean]

It.

[Paul Melock]

Was years ago, but it was a bidding war and my client had created one of the first animated Internet series. This is back when it was Internet 1.0. And yeah, there were like three or four studios competing for the project. And that was a wild day.

[Sean]

What was it called?

[Paul Melock]

It almost never happened.

[Sean]

Can you tell us the name of it?

[Paul Melock]

No, because I told you a little too much already.

[Sean]

You can't tell us the name of any of your clients. Can you like any big movies that sold for a lot of money?

[Paul Melock]

I'd rather not.

[Sean]

Can you tell us what was the amount or like the script that you've seen that got sold for the most amount of money? So we can all dream big. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I mean, let's dream big.

[Paul Melock]

I've had clients sell scripts for between 2 and 3 million.

[Sean]

Okay, see, so there is hope in the horizon. 2, 3 million. I cannot imagine what kind of story that must be.

[Paul Melock]

Well, they're the movies that justify those kind of prices are usually blockbuster superhero movies and things like that.

[Sean]

So whoever reads it, they know, okay, this movie is going to make a pile of money.

[Paul Melock]

Yeah. Basically, people are paid to know that stuff. I don't know if they actually do know anything.

[Sean]

Is there anything trending right now that you think that you would recommend aspiring writers to work on more?

[Paul Melock]

I wouldn't try to follow trends at all. I would write what's, you know, what grabs you, what's important to you because the writing will speak for itself. I think you try to follow trends, you lose the thing that everyone's looking for, which is, you know, a strong emotional core, originality.

[Sean]

Well, hopefully new stories. Something nobody ever heard before. I kind of like. Do you remember? That's one that always comes to my mind when I think about scripts because I do think that's like one of the most typical and fabulous Hollywood stories. It's the Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. Right. The script they sold, Good Will Hunting, that was like, I forgot. I remember I read the story that they sold it for a lot. For them, it was so much. They were both broke. They were both so young. One was sleeping on the couch with the other in the other apartment. I don't even remember the details, but they sold for, like a significant amount. Do you remember how much it was? But it was.

[Paul Melock]

I don't remember the price, but it.

[Sean]

Was a significant, significant amount that they were like, oh, my God, I can't get out of my friend's couch. I can pay my bills. And it went all the way to.

[Paul Melock]

The whole story behind that. I mean, you know, I think. Was it Rob Reiner? It was set up with Castle Rock and Reiner helped them rewrite the script. It went through a long process of rewrites. It's turned into a completely different story than it started as.

[Sean]

Yeah, well, but he made it all the way to the Oscars. Right. And it transformed their lives. So, I mean, I think that's a good, inspiring one for. Yeah, everybody to dream. We can all get there. Right?

[Paul Melock]

Yeah, that's what I said. You know, people do it all the time.

[Sean]

People do it all the time. So don't give up. Don't, don't get discouraged. I think this is a very fun, fantastic guide for anybody. Like I said, I know it's for writers, but I was reading from my actors perspective and a lot of the stuff you wrote, I'm like, yes, this is right on point. Be careful who you trust. Don't give your work for free. Get the right representation. I mean, look at the red flags. It's, it's fantastic. Pointers. It's like you said, it's a little survival guide. So I absolutely love the congratulations.

[Paul Melock]

Well, thank you.

[Sean]

It's really fun. And any idea when you. You're getting another one out?

[Paul Melock]

Well, I'm talking to my, my law partner about that right now, and we're thinking of making that the next one for influencers.

[Sean]

I can help you with that one. I Can co write because. Yeah, that's a really tough world. Oh, my God. Yeah, they definitely need a guide, so. Yeah, that's a fantastic idea. Congratulations. Welcome to Hollywood Book, guys. If you're listening to the audio episode, make sure you go to my YouTube channel so you can see Paul and you can see the COVID of the book Cat on the Loose podcast. And if you want to get a copy, it's crazy affordable. It's fast, easy to read, so everybody has time. You can buy. I like the hard copy because when I'm reading a book and I make notes, I highlight. Like the Kaizen. Yeah. If you see my books, they have 10 million notes and everything because I apply some of them to my life. Like this Kaizen. Kaizen. Kaizen. Kaizen. Yeah. So. But if you don't want to buy the hard copy, you have the Kindle as well, which is even more affordable. So go for it and follow your dreams and don't give up. Right, Paul?

[Paul Melock]

That's right.

[Sean]

Don't give up. Don't give up. And when you're ready for an attorney, here you are.

[Paul Melock]

I'm available.

[Sean]

You're. And I'll be ready for you soon. We're gonna sell my script. I know we will. Thank you so much, Paul. It was such a huge honor having here. I know how busy you are.

[Paul Melock]

Thank you.

[Sean]

Very great. Thank you for being on Canada Lose. I'm very grateful, very honored. Guys, be safe out there. And go right, go. Go win some Oscars and I'll see you very soon.

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