B (4:17)

Yes. Took a bit.

A (4:19)

It took a while. Right. But here you are and I'm very happy to have you.

B (4:23)

Happy to be here.

A (4:24)

So before we talk about your fabulous company and your amazing work with Zen Arts, let's explain to people our background. Like I was saying in the car, not only you're my guest, but we're besties and neighbors.

B (4:36)

Yes, we are friends.

A (4:38)

We are. True. A true example of how. Because I get that a lot on the podcast. You know, I've been doing Cat on the Loose for four years now and it's a big debate out there in the relationships and dating world that most people do not believe that men and women can just be friends. They think there is always going to be some kind of flirting or romantic dynamics. And we are a perfect example that men and women can be great friends from the get go.

B (5:05)

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, when we first met, if you remember, we met at the solo house.

A (5:10)

Yes.

B (5:11)

In. In la.

A (5:12)

Yes.

B (5:12)

And I didn't know you. You were actually, I think with someone.

A (5:15)

I was with that, you know who I was with, that situationship person that I was with.

B (5:20)

Yeah, you were with whatever. You're with someone. I was with a friend. A male friend.

A (5:25)

Yes.

B (5:25)

And you came up to me and you're like, you're so fabulous.

A (5:28)

I didn't come up to you. Oh, okay. I almost said his name. The situationship guy came up to you and started talking to both of you.

B (5:38)

He started talking to us?

A (5:40)

Yeah, he started talking to both of you. And then I asked for your. Because I asked what you did and you said, oh, I'm the owner, president of Zen Arts. And I immediately looked at your Instagram like, oh, I want to hit him up because I want to work with him.

B (5:52)

Yeah.

A (5:53)

But I think it was always just friendship.

B (5:55)

No, no, I think you initially, you're like, if you want to go on a date.

A (5:58)

I did not.

B (5:59)

Yes, you did. You said, if you want to go on a date, I'm totally interested in going on a date. And I said, you know, you're not really my type, but I'm down to hang out.

A (6:09)

We never had. You're talking about somebody else.

B (6:13)

You don't remember. You don't remember putting it out there.

A (6:15)

I did not.

B (6:16)

You put it out there a little bit.

A (6:17)

Yeah, I still have our. Okay, we're gonna check after the podcast, because we didn't.

B (6:24)

If you have the text thread from the very first day.

A (6:26)

I have the text.

B (6:27)

I'm sure there's something in there.

A (6:28)

I swear to God. I have the text thread. I said, hi, Doug, how are you doing? We met at the Soho House, and by the way, I saw your Instagram, and I immediately started talk because I want to be your social. I wanted to be your social media manager. And then you asked me. I'll tell you what the story was, but I do have the threat. I can prove it.

B (6:47)

Okay. With two sides of this.

A (6:48)

Then you said to me, oh, do you have any girlfriends to introduce me? And then, remember at the time I thought about Aaliyah.

B (6:56)

Oh, no, no, no. But what you said. What you said was, I'm single. No, that's what you said. No, you're right, you're right, you're right. I did it because. Because I was like, hey, you seem amazing. Do you have any single girlfriends? And you were like, I'm single.

A (7:11)

I did.

B (7:11)

And I was like, cat, come on, I know you've got some single girlfriends.

A (7:15)

Okay, we're gonna look at the tribe, right? So I swear to God, we never.

B (7:18)

Okay, so we're going to do a follow up episode to clarify.

A (7:21)

Yes, guys.

B (7:22)

Because in my recollection, it was.

A (7:24)

Let's bet $100 on it.

B (7:26)

Okay, $100.

A (7:27)

Listen, I don't know.

B (7:28)

And we don't if it's not there, doesn't mean it didn't happen either, though.

A (7:31)

No, I have the thread. I didn't. I'm telling you, this is why I started this, this episode with this conversation. Because from the get go, I thought you were, like, super nice. I. I love your work. I think you're very talented. You're an artist. We're going to talk about all of that. But same. I didn't have the vibe like, I want to date. I had the vibe I wanted to be your friend. And I was really, like, you know, very tangled up in that situationship.

B (7:56)

I mean, regardless, we got through that very quickly. Like, it was like a matter, but.

A (8:01)

It wasn't me or something. It wasn't me.

B (8:03)

We're gonna go through those text messages and you're gonna pay me a hundred dollars because we got through it so quickly you don't remember it.

A (8:10)

You're gonna pay me a hundred dollars. Okay.

B (8:12)

Okay. So we're gonna show up on your screen over here. We're gonna show up on this podcast. Who had to pay. Who.

A (8:17)

Yes.

B (8:18)

Who confirmed.

A (8:18)

But I swear, never wanted to go on a date with you. With all the respect, I love you and adore you, but I think you're wrong on this. I think it was somebody else.

B (8:26)

No, no, no. But anyway, it was very simple. It was just kind of. You just said, hey, I'm single. Do you have any single phone? You said on sing that.

A (8:38)

Because I wasn't.

B (8:39)

Yeah, you were technically single. Well, okay, you're wrapped up in things, but you're.

A (8:44)

I was wrapped up.

B (8:45)

You were on the dating apps at that time too. Because I saw you.

A (8:47)

I was on.

B (8:47)

At the same time, I was like, I think on Bumble or something. And for many years ago, because I Not been on a dating app in a long time.

A (8:55)

No, I will talk about that too.

B (8:57)

Because now I'm like, oh, should I go back on a dating app?

A (8:59)

Yeah, of course.

B (9:00)

The best thing I've ever did is, like, not being on the dating apps in the sense of like, not swiping. But there was a moment around that same time where I swiped. I was swiping. And I saw you in your profile and you're so you're gonna say your word single. But at the same time, you were actively.

A (9:17)

For sure, because I was as. You know, we're not gonna say in his name, but I was in a very horrible, complicated situationship. I knew the. He wasn't the right guy for me, and I was kind of falling for him. And I Was trying to meet somebody else so I could get out of it. So I agree. I was on the dating apps. I didn't want to date you. I wanted to introduce you to some friends. It never worked out. But the good news is the best thing the situationship ever did for me is that we ended up meeting each other and we became really close friends, and we did work together, and turns out we're neighbors, which really helps. Right? And we're like a block from each other. I love your dog. You like my dogs. But. And. But before we do the entire episode arguing, because I know I'm right.

B (10:01)

The bottom line is not right. She's not right.

A (10:03)

And he's looking at the camera, he's like, she's not right. Guys, I'm right. I have to think where you're gonna take me with the 100 bucks, but whatever. But we are proof that guys and girls can have an amazing friendship. So I just wanted to dismissify this silly myth out there, because so many guys, they write to the pot and they're like, no, I'm always gonna try to flirt with my girlfriend. And the girls are like, I don't want to have guy friends because the guy's always gonna try to sleep with me. But that's not the case.

B (10:34)

No. I mean, I just had lunch yesterday actually with two women that I've known, you know, that are friends of mine that are super gorgeous, super talented, very fashion driven women. I mean, these girls are hot. We. We're friends. Like, we had lunch yesterday, we hung out. We hang out. You know, occasionally we'll have dinner parties. We, you know, there's those lines are never crossed. And we compliment each other all the time. It's like, oh, you're hot. You're hot. Like, I appreciate this. And we talk about dating and like, you know, they talk about the guys they're dating and they're on the dating apps or what they're not finding or what they would like. And like, I've been going through a breakup and I'm talking to them about that. Yeah, it's like we kind of just share our relationship, you know, status and what's going on. And I. I don't know, I really do appreciate the women that I'm friends with. And I think as I get older, I just can't have every woman in my life be someone I'm trying to pursue or date. Like, I appreciate the women that are in my life that are friends that I can confide in, that I can, like, see a female perspective. From. And I can just spend time with. It's not me chasing them to try and have sex with them or date them.

A (11:35)

I love that you said that, because I feel the same way. For some reason, I really get along with guys because I think, unfortunately, many times, you know, women are catty, right? They're jealous of each other or they want to get the. Your boyfriend, la, la, whatever. I love talking to my guy friends because it's a male perspective. It's always different from the female perspective. And in your case, the other way around. Although I have to say parenthesis. You know, I'm gonna say that as your friend. You don't listen when it comes to the dating thing. It's a little complicated because you want my point of view, like, the woman's point of view, but you continue doing the same.

B (12:12)

Yeah.

A (12:12)

So, you know, that's one thing I'm gonna say. Like, maybe you should, like, listen a little more.

B (12:17)

Yeah. You know, I mean, dating in Los Angeles is not an easy thing.

A (12:21)

Right.

B (12:21)

Like, it wasn't easy when I was 25. It's not easy now. You know, it's like dating is just not easy. And it's a lot.

A (12:29)

Yeah.

B (12:29)

I think being a. Being a man and who has their shit together and, you know, I've got. I've got, you know, several. I have a lot. I'm doing well, and I've got a really nice life. And I feel very fortunate in a lot of ways. And at the same time, like, the amount of stuff you have to filter through as a man in la, with.

A (12:47)

Women, it's very difficult and vice versa. But. Yeah, and we're gonna talk about that. But let's rewind the tape a little bit. For people that don't know you, let's explain, because you said, yeah, you are always around so many beautiful women. You have, like, such a magical life. So let's. Let's give everybody a little bit of your background. You were an artist. You started this fabulous company called Zen Arts Luxury Entertainment. Tell us, like, in a nutshell, how you got there. You are a fire eater.

B (13:15)

I think.

A (13:16)

Well, a long time ago.

B (13:18)

I am a fire dancer. It's a little different when you're eating fire. I would never eat fire.

A (13:23)

Okay, so you never ate the fire?

B (13:24)

I would dance with fire.

A (13:25)

Yeah.

B (13:26)

Like, kind of like Cirque du Soleil, Burning man, you know, like dancing with different tools on fire. I think it goes further back for me is that I was always an artist, and I started playing music professionally when I was 10 years old. So I think as a child I was always going to be an artist and it just manifested, the mediums manifested in different ways. Like it might have been a saxophone or a guitar and then it was a fire, it was fire dancing. And now it's kind of I think evolved into me art directing and producing and directing full scale entertainment and shows that are Runway ready, Cirque du Soleil esque, dance oriented choreography, costumes design, art design, set design. I mean all these things kind of piled into like the art direction of an entire sort of production and show versus like one tool, one thing on stage. But it's been a journey for me I think since I was a child being an artist.

A (14:18)

How long ago did you start Zen Arts?

B (14:21)

Zen Arts, we started in 2008, so.

A (14:24)

It'S been around for quite a long time and it's super well known. I know you guys create this crazy multi million dollar parties, weddings, luxury events. Correct. You do everything.

B (14:36)

Yeah, I've done theater stuff. I've worked with Beyonce and Madonna and done stuff with Cirque du Soleil and I've had my own theater shows and. And then I've done private events and corporate events and one offs. Like we did a big party in, in LA a couple nights ago that was like a private event. And then I'm doing right now in talks to do a dinner show in Vegas. It'll be a residency, one of the bigger hotels there for a year versus like we did a show in Reno last year for six months and it's kind of, it's. There's a lot, it's a lot. You know, it's like from private events to. Could be like. I'm just doing. We just booked a wedding in the Canary Islands in a few months, you know, off of Spain and then. Yeah, stuff in Vegas, stuff in la, stuff in New York, stuff in Miami. So it's always kind of evolving, but it's high end entertainment that's customized generally to either a show or a stage or some private sort of venue.

A (15:25)

Yeah, I've been to a few of your events with you and they're always like to die for. Like we were talking before the podcast started. We went to the record label New Year's party like a couple years ago.

B (15:37)

I think Empire Records. Empire for the, for the Grammys?

A (15:41)

Yes. Yeah. For the Grams. Yeah. I don't know, I thought it was New Year's and basically they hire you to do the entertainment. So you had those girls that dance in, you call the lollipops. Right.

B (15:52)

Aerialist.

A (15:53)

Aerialists it's like super sexy stuff. You have acro. Acrobats all over the party and that's the kind of stuff that you do. We've been to a lot of other events. We've been to that super famous girl, what's her name, that did the birthday party in a mansion. Chloe.

B (16:10)

Chloe, yeah.

A (16:10)

Yeah, literally. I know. I'm like, she has the luckiest handle for Instagram in the world because it's just Chloe.

B (16:18)

Oh, that's her handle. I don't know.

A (16:20)

Not even Khloe Kardashian has that handle. It's hers. Yeah. So she has like almost 5 million followers now.

B (16:26)

Okay.

A (16:27)

But that was a fabulous party as.

B (16:28)

Well for her birthday.

A (16:30)

Yeah. And so just so people can picture in. In their heads. But of course, I'm gonna put the link of his website, Instagram here on this episode so you guys can go and see the video so you can, like, you know, illustrate what we're talking about. But for example, if somebody wants to throw a super high end fabulous birthday party and they want to put mermaids in the pool, you do that. If they want gorgeous dancers dancing by the bar, you do that. Whatever a person dreams in terms of enter entertainment, you can come up with it.

B (16:59)

Yeah. Do a lot of music and choreography and dancers and costume design and. Yeah, we customize everything. We just did an event, actually. It was really nice in Orange county for a billionaire client of ours. And the theme was One Night in Bangkok. So it was a Thai theme where we built a temple over the pool and covered the pool and it was a Thai temple. And, you know, we created all this different entertainment from like singers and live music to dancers to specialty acts and fire dancing and different things. It was kind, you know, revolved around the theme of Thailand and One Night in Bangkok with all the costumes are very specific. And so that kind of stuff's really fun for me where it's kind of a one off and we get to customize the entire thing. It's like putting on a Broadway show at someone's house, you know, for one night for a million dollars.

A (17:45)

Oh, my God. A million bucks for a party. Holy cow.

B (17:49)

I mean, for the entertainment.

A (17:50)

For the entertainment.

B (17:51)

Party is probably more like 3 to 5 million.

A (17:54)

Yeah. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Yeah, we're gonna get there. I'm gonna ask about the. The cost and all the crazy, but so just explaining this is why you're always around gorgeous people, because of course, you have a lot of dancer friends, a lot of. And. And these girls like have, obviously they have insane bodies. They're so beautiful. So it's like a magical world that you live in.

B (18:15)

I mean, I think there's this misconception that, like, I'm either dating or sleeping with all these women that I'm creating.

A (18:23)

Art with, which is not true.

B (18:25)

Not the case at all. I mean, a lot of the women I work with are half my age, first of all, and they're all super. It's a very familial, safe environment. So for me, it's like if I'm working with a bunch of dancers and they're 20 years old, you know, we're creating art together. It's more my vision of what I need to be creating. It's not me trying to get in their pants. So I'm not dating these girls. And it might seem like that. And it's probably fairly intimidating for some women that might come into dating with me of like, oh, you're surrounded by all these women all the time. Like, you're the world of like, my social media looks very sexy. And that's just not the case. It's not like.

A (19:00)

Right. I mean, you don't even do your personal social media for yourself. It's really just the social media for the company. Right. You're selling.

B (19:07)

I don't have a social media, the events.

A (19:09)

But I would think that a girl should date you. And we were talking about it because of. Of the breakup you're going through. I think a woman for you has to be someone really conf. In their skin and just. They trust you, period.

B (19:24)

Yeah.

A (19:25)

Yeah, Right. If it's somebody, like, with an insecure personality that, like, if you're in a party or an event or you travel, like you said, you go to Las Vegas, you go. You were in New York for Halloween. Same stuff. If they think every single time you're doing this multimillion dollar event, you're going to be banging a dancer, it's never going to work.

B (19:45)

Yeah, I think too, I don't know that people that aren't in entertainment don't understand, like, how much work and focus it takes, whether it's to be a stage performer or a musician, part of a band, or to have a show, like a theater show like Cirque du Soleil or to be working with like Beyonce is that, like, everything's. It's a lot of discipline and it's a lot of work and there's a lot of training that goes involved and it's not as much of a party as it might seem, you know? For us, I think, you know, I work and create some of the most luxurious parties with some of the most, like, lavish venues and locations all over the world. But for us, they're creating that art. It's about us expressing who we are and what we're doing. It's not about drugs and partying and sex.

A (20:28)

Right.

B (20:28)

It's like backstage is not what you might think it is.

A (20:30)

Yeah, I agree. I think maybe people that are not in the entertainment industry, they have a much harder time understanding the life of an artist and the long hours and the crazy schedules that we have. So maybe wouldn't it be easier for you to date somebody who is in this world as opposed to somebody who is not?

B (20:51)

I mean, yes and no. It's like, I do think, like, for me, it's nice to. I mean, I appreciate being with an artist too, because I love art.

A (20:58)

Yeah.

B (20:59)

But also, like, for me to be with a woman, the woman needs to be spiritually conscious and aware and have a good handle on who she is. And I can't be with someone who's partying and who's living sort of rock star lifestyle in the sense of like on the road all the time or like, it's hard for me to date a day. I don't know if I could date.

A (21:16)

A dancer, you know, because they're always busy.

B (21:18)

Yeah. Or they could be on tour tomorrow.

A (21:20)

Right.

B (21:20)

So it's like these, these, you know, to be a professional dancer in Los Angeles, you're auditioning every day and then, you know, you may or may not get a job tomorrow, but then next week you might be on tour.

A (21:31)

Yeah.

B (21:32)

You know, with Usher for six months or a year or two years. And there's no. That's not gonna not happen.

A (21:39)

Right.

B (21:39)

So it's like, it's kind of like a. Not. It's not a very stable environment. But at the same time, like, these dancers are very young and they're like, this is what they want to do. And there's a short window of doing that. And I don't know that anyone in that world's like, setting themselves up to be in a long term relationship.

A (21:55)

Right.

B (21:55)

But for me, it's like that. That world. So, yeah. I mean, I do appreciate, and I have had some really good relationships with artists and I do appreciate at least someone that needs to appreciate art, understands art, enjoys art, whether they're creating it or not. Certainly makes more sense for me than being with somebody that's totally disconnected from fashion and art and music. Same, because those are all super important to Me?

A (22:17)

Yeah, same for me. So now you're single again. You, you were going through a tough breakup because you were engaged, right. You thought, that's it. You literally put a ring on a finger of this person and it didn't work out, and now you're like, picking up the pieces.

B (22:34)

Yeah, now I'm back in the game.

A (22:36)

You're back in the game. And I think personally, that's the best way to mend a broken heart is to be back in the game and, and keep trying to find the right person for you. That's what I think. You know, but you were mentioning that you didn't do the dating apps for a long time. What do you think is the, the most chaotic or the most difficult part in terms of, you know, being single and trying to date again?

B (23:01)

I mean, I think for me, and I'm not really doing a lot of that, like, I'm just like, just now recently single, so I'm not out setting up a lot of dates and I think. But the challenges are, at least in a city like Los Angeles. I don't know how it is in New York or San Francisco, but we're in our own bubble. We're disconnected in a lot of ways. We're segregated and, you know, we're kind of in our own world. So it's like, where, like, I'm not going to a bars or I'm not. If I'm at an event, I'm usually involved in the event. So I'm not like, like, you know, consciously meeting people at an event. And then I'm working all the time. So. And I'm going, I'm sleeping and going to bed and working out and taking care of my body. So the things, the schedule is pretty rigorous. So where, where do you meet somebody in midst of all that? The, I mean, the dating apps are an option. It's not something I'm doing right now. It's something like people have been suggesting and I've done in the past. And the problem with the dating apps for me is that it's just this window shopping of like, swiping on women. And I think for me, it's like if I was going to go, if I was gonna do that again, it would need to be with more intention and a little bit more clarity and like actual, like, I, like, like for instance, in the past, I, I, when I was on a dating app, I probably put an age range from 22.

A (24:14)

To 44, which is a bad idea.

B (24:17)

Yeah, well, I wouldn't do like, I don't 35.

A (24:21)

Yeah.

B (24:21)

To 45 or something. Right. Like, I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't even want to be dating women in their twenties.

A (24:26)

No, I agree. We talked about that. I think, you know, if you're putting 22 or something, very unlikely you're gonna meet a good match in terms of being in a relationship with. Yeah. So you gotta be a little more focused.

B (24:38)

Well, with the algorithm, I think, like if I, if the age range is 22, then I'm getting girls, you know, that are in bikinis, you know, on private jets or in yachts, in Saint Tropez or whatever. And I'm swiping on that because it looks good in a photo.

A (24:51)

Yeah.

B (24:52)

And then all of a sudden the algorithm's only showing me these girls that are like hitting me up and wanting to be, you know, wanting either their rent to be paid for or wanting sugar daddies or you don't want to be taken care of or don't have jobs or just flat out broke or.

A (25:06)

Yeah.

B (25:06)

Want to be models or.

A (25:08)

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B (28:49)

I mean, I think the dating apps, like have. There's a lot of. There's just straight up hookers all over the dating apps. And so the dating apps are kind of flooded with like this sort of thing. Right. Whether it's straight up girls that are hookers or girls that are just looking for sugar daddies or whatever. And I don't. Other than like really being intentional and like maybe not swiping as much. Like, I don't know. Someone told me the league is an app that they send you like four or five people a day. Right.

A (29:16)

I gave you the.

B (29:17)

But how many people do they send you a day?

A (29:19)

Three.

B (29:19)

Okay, three. You have three options. That may not be bad. Like, because even if, even if there's a hundred options.

A (29:25)

Yeah.

B (29:25)

You probably should only be swiping on three options.

A (29:27)

Yeah.

B (29:28)

Because the problem is, at least as a guy and me, I could just spend all day swiping on these apps and then before you know it, you spend a couple hours in one app and you swiped on like, 50 women. And so then the algorithm.

A (29:41)

But you got to be peak here, you know?

B (29:43)

Yeah. Because if you're not, the algorithm is going to send you the wrong type of thing, and you're going to get caught up in all this bullshit that's out there.

A (29:52)

Yeah, but have you had. When you were using the dating apps, did that ever happen to you? Like, that a girl sends you a message and even before you guys meet and, like, asks. Because that's what I've been hearing from a lot of guys, that even before the first date, they're like, hey, well, you have to bring me a gift on a first date. What are you gonna do?

B (30:12)

I haven't gotten all that before. Yeah, yeah.

A (30:14)

Oh, my God.

B (30:15)

Like, I'll go out here, you know, but bring me a gift or, you know, oh, my God, you know, can you afford me tonight?

A (30:22)

Can you afford me?

B (30:23)

I mean, I've had more situations where I've taken somebody out to dinner in the past, and everything's been fine. And I didn't pay the girl any money or anything. Maybe we went for a nice dinner, and it cost $300 for dinner. I'm like, she's making out with me at dinner or by the end of dinner, and then she wants to go on another date, and then she asks, like, you know, oh, by the way, I'm looking to be taken care of. And, like, I had a really good time with you, but, like, you know, I am looking for someone who's gonna, like, support me and take care of me.

A (30:54)

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B (32:22)

There's a lot of that just in.

A (32:23)

I know there's a lot. I don't think it's just in la. Yeah, I don't know because I hear that from like every place on earth. I get messages. We get messages from people everywhere in the United States. We get messages from people from all the countries. Anybody that uses the dating app, if you talk to guys, you can like talk to a guy in France. You can talk Brazil. All the Brazilian guys complain like, oh my God, all these girls want something from me, you know, And I think it just, yeah, like you said, even if they're not horse, but it makes you look horrible. Like you're just meeting a guy and you're asking him for gifts and money.

B (33:01)

Maybe it depends on the app too. Like I tried the Raya app a few years ago and like that's the app. It's like exclusive and every. I have a bunch of friends on that app now and they're like, oh, you know, you have to be vetted and you have to be referred. And I don't know how it is now because this is years ago. But like when I, when I got on this, this app, Raya, they had to vet you by your social media.

A (33:25)

Yeah.

B (33:25)

So you couldn't even be on. We had to be referred first of all. And then you had to have like a significant social media presence to be accepted on that.

A (33:33)

Yeah.

B (33:34)

And at the time, I don't have a personal Instagram. Right. So my Instagram is Zen Arts. So I got referred, I applied. They're like, well, no, you don't have an Instagram. And I basically made a case like, no, this is me, this is my Instagram. Like, I can show you everything to show you that this is my social media. I don't have a personal Instagram and they accepted me on that, on the app. And then I, I think, like, what I found is at least at that time it was like filled with all the wrong girls for me because like I was, I was swiping on the girls that are Instagram models and, and look great in all these fancy photos. Like girls that have fashion And G string bikini photos and whatever. And so I quickly. These girls that I would go on dates with or meet were like looking for sugar daddies, looking for celebrities, looking to be celebrities themselves because they wanted to gain more followers themselves. It was exactly the girl I don't wanna be with. So I had to delete that app. I couldn't be on that dating app.

A (34:32)

Same Raya. For me, it's the same thing. A few years ago I tried it the, the, the reverse side. Of course, all the guys there, they want to be actors, they want to be musicians. You know, they. A lot of them are like unemployed, but they look good because they have like a nice Instagram with all kinds of modeling pictures. I'm like, that's exactly the kind of people that I'm not interested in going out with at all. And there are some famous people in there, both women and men, but a lot of actors, but they don't want a relationship. They just wanna.

B (35:06)

Or they even have quick sides. They just wanna have fun even on it. Because, like, I have a. Yeah, I had a couple friends at the time that were celebrities, women and female. I mean, female and male were like, their, their, their profiles were on the app and they were never on the app. They're like, yeah, I don't even know. I'm not even, I'm not even on that app. I think some people, they might have created a profile.

A (35:25)

Yeah.

B (35:25)

But they were never on it. Or like the apps kind of got them, you know, I think they, I.

A (35:30)

Think maybe they are, but they just won't. Like a quick fling or something.

B (35:33)

You know, maybe I just. All the attractive, like, celebrities that I know don't really need to go on a swiping.

A (35:39)

Exactly.

B (35:40)

Like get attractive women and then the guy. A couple of my male friends that are on the app, like, I've seen some of the women they go out with, like, like I've met them and I've heard the stories and like, like I've never heard anything good. Like, all of my friends have been dating girls off the Raya app. It's like a disaster.

A (35:56)

Because, listen, but that's one thing too, right, that I, I want to talk about you. You and your friends. Friends, probably, but you do that. I don't know if you still do it. But anyways, you go on these apps and, and the, the girl that you guys take on dates, you know, are not the girls that would be good for relationship, but you take them out because they're sexy, they're beautiful. Very likely you're Gonna have good sex quickly. But you guys know that that's not gonna lead to a relationship, but you still do it, and you keep dating the same pattern of girl.

B (36:28)

I've been like that in the past. It's not what I would do now. Yeah, in the past. The version of me that was dating in the past, you know, partying.

A (36:36)

Yeah.

B (36:36)

Drinking, sex, rock and roll. That kind of like, that person was like, yeah, I know this is not going to be my wife, but I'm gonna take this girl out on a date from the dating app.

A (36:46)

Right.

B (36:46)

But I don't know if I was good, if I was. Whenever I get to that, if I'm gonna be on a dating app, I would do it with much more attention.

A (36:53)

Yeah.

B (36:53)

I would screen girls way more, you know, considerably. I wouldn't go on dates all the time. Yeah, I wouldn't. It would be very rare that I go on a date. I would screen the person more heavily. I don't know. I'm just still not. I'm just still not there because I'm. I think I'm just scared of, like, having to, like, swipe on photos on my phone to consider someone. But, you know, I've had a couple friends that are doing matchmaking, which I.

A (37:16)

Haven'T done, but matchmaking is, like, a fortune.

B (37:19)

Yeah. I mean, my friends are a couple of the companies they're working with. They're paying 10, 15, 20 grand, I'll tell you.

A (37:24)

You know, I've interviewed pretty much every matchmaker out there. They all have, like, their little crazy theories and everything. I never had a great experience with matchmakers because they all try to match me because they've been on the podcast, and I don't think they do a great job. I'm not sure, as a guy, and no disrespect to them, I would pay this kind of money to, you know, for a service. But, I mean, it depends how badly I don't.

B (37:50)

I mean, I probably have three or four friends that have, like, paid this kind of money. I hope none of my friends. It's worked out for.

A (37:56)

That's what I'm saying.

B (37:57)

They keep talking about other people. They know that it's worked out for that somehow they've been convinced.

A (38:01)

Yeah.

B (38:01)

Like, one of my friends has tried it, and he's had no success.

A (38:04)

Yeah.

B (38:05)

I mean, they do send him really good quality girls.

A (38:07)

Yeah.

B (38:07)

It's like, okay, like, they'll send him this girl who's, like, a Stanford grad and has a CEO of some company and. But there's Just something that doesn't work out or exactly like nothing works.

A (38:17)

I don't think they do a good job, like, figuring out if the two people really match and want the same things. You know what I mean? It's kind of like luck because, like, if you pay them, they have a database of girls, so they got to pick from that database. And they promise you. Usually that's how the matchmakers, they promise you three or four dates. And so they have to deliver. So whoever is on that database, they have to do as best as they can. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm sure they have their rate of success, but for me, it honestly never, ever, ever they've sent me on like a half ass decent date.

B (38:54)

I mean, my only. My only personal interaction with it, with a. With a matchmaker was like a couple years, a few years ago maybe right before COVID It was like someone approached me that was a matchmaker, and they had a girl that was one of their clients. It was a woman who was paying all this money. Very, very wealthy woman. And they. And they found me and they said that, like, I was. I was a potential.

A (39:19)

Wasn't she in Salt Lake City or something?

B (39:21)

I mean, I'm not getting into, like, you know, where she was.

A (39:23)

Okay, but she was out of the. Out of town. Yes, I remember that lady. Yeah.

B (39:28)

And they wanted. They. She was gonna fly in to meet me, blah, blah, blah. And like, they. I don't know, for some reason, they. They found me. Just like they find anyone, I'm sure, Right? The matchmakers, I'm sure they're scouring social media, whatever, but they found me. And they're like, we have the perfect girl for you. And I'm like, you're a matchmaker. Like, no, you don't have to pay. She's already paying us. But we want to set up a day with you guys.

A (39:49)

And I remember that.

B (39:51)

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's my only experience.

A (39:53)

But it didn't work.

B (39:54)

No, no, it wasn't.

A (39:55)

It was not a match at all.

B (39:56)

No, no, no. But we're friends. We. I, her and I had spoke and we're friends now. What? Nothing happened between us. It just wasn't like the right. The right fit. But yeah, I guess whatever she was paying didn't work out for her either. But we're friends. We became friends.

A (40:11)

There you go. And another thing that matchmakers do that I personally really don't like and disagree with and including many of them that have been on the show. You guys can go listen to the episodes and make your own conclusions. But they have these rules. Like this absurd rules. For example, most of them, they. They tell the women, like, don't have sex until you have a commit. You're in a committed relationship. Like, withhold sex.

B (40:36)

Okay. With all the books. And they even control that. What does that.

A (40:39)

Well, no, because they say it's a rule, and if we find out you had sex, we're gonna kick you out. And we're completely against it that most of them that. And I think it's absurd personally to tell someone because I almost think it's like, emotional blackmail somehow. Like, one of my guy friends said, like, you're basically holding the vagina hostage because you want to date someone for six months. Whatever it takes. Two months, two months, three months, six months. And not have sex until the guy looks at you and says, oh, okay. I mean, I want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship with you. How do you know if you don't know if you guys have sexual chemistry?

B (41:15)

I don't even think that exists. I mean, that kind of dating doesn't. I mean, not. Not with. Have. It doesn't work for me. There's no way. I mean, I could. I mean, where I'm at right now in my life is that I could go out on dates and not have sex because I'm just not. That's not what I'm rushing to do right now.

A (41:28)

Right.

B (41:29)

But, like, months. No, there's no way.

A (41:31)

That's what I'm saying. I'm never rush. Ever, ever, ever. But after a while, I want to know if the sex is good before I commit to be with that person only.

B (41:45)

I mean, if I was, like, someone I'm friends with, like, there's some women that I'm friends with, like, where we've already established we're in the friend zone kind of thing.

A (41:53)

Yeah.

B (41:53)

And then maybe over months or years or whatever, like, as friends, and there starts to turn, like, some attraction, you know, then maybe that could. Could kind of manifest or grow. But to set things up as, like, I'm going on a date.

A (42:07)

Yeah.

B (42:08)

And it's interesting because I talked to the women I was with yesterday, my friend friends. They're both, like, wanting to take things very slow, and they're going on dates. So, like, they really want to take things slow. Like, they want. They want to take months and months. They don't want to sleep with anyone right away. And.

A (42:23)

Yeah. And.

B (42:24)

But they're on the dating apps and going on dates. And, you know, we were having this conversation of like, well, okay, how do you take it slow? Because like, if you're on a dating app and you're going out on a date, it's like, like, I would respect that the woman doesn't want to sleep with me right away, but how long is that, how many dates am I going to take her on?

A (42:43)

Exactly.

B (42:44)

How much time am I going to spend with her? Because let's just say it turns into four dates, five dates. Now it's a couple months. Well, now we're just in the friend zone. It's like, I'm going to shut off the energy. Right. If I'm really that attracted to her, I'm probably just going to move into a friendship and not really pursue anything. Yeah, but at what point do you both feel safe and comfortable to, like.

A (43:04)

Like, cross the boundary or you're going to end up going on a date with someone else?

B (43:09)

Right. Because that, that one, because that one's my friend. Now I'm in the friend zone. So we're gonna, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start seeking something from someone else.

A (43:18)

I, but that's what I'm saying. This is why I disagree so much with the way matchmaker do things. I don't think it's a good idea, good way to convince someone to commit with you to being only with you. With holding sex, I think it's just a bad game.

B (43:33)

Maybe the matchmakers think that, like, there's more success by withholding sex.

A (43:37)

I, I, well, I'm just saying, me, I disagree. You know, I, I, you know, I don't date a lot, but when I date after so many dates, I'm like, okay, we have to have sex. Because if the sex sucks, you know, to me, it's a deal breaker. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone that I don't have physical chemistry with.

B (43:56)

No, I mean, I couldn't be with somebody like, like for a long period of time and not, like, explore the physical connection either.

A (44:02)

Exactly. So I don't know, maybe you should go back to the dating apps.

B (44:07)

I wouldn't even know which, which apps at this point.

A (44:09)

I told you, you should do Bumble. Bumble is always great. Maybe Hinge. You know, you should try a few. Put yourself out there.

B (44:17)

There's no new app. Like, these are apps have been, like, for going on for so many years.

A (44:20)

There's no, I know.

B (44:21)

There's no new apps out there that are coming.

A (44:23)

Not that I heard of. I know that. I mean, to me, Tinder is a show. I don't recommend Tinder. I think it's the worst quality of people.

B (44:31)

Yeah, I have a hinge.

A (44:33)

Yeah.

B (44:34)

But they're my experience. I used to be on Tinder years ago, too, and that was better when I was traveling.

A (44:39)

Yeah.

B (44:39)

Like Tinder. In some countries, people, like, are not using Bumble. Right. So it could be like, whatever, Eastern Europe. Europe or South America or wherever. They might use Tinder more. But I mean, in my experience. But like, again, my. My dating app experience is like five years ago or something.

A (44:55)

So I don't.

B (44:56)

I'm not sure what the dating app world looks like now.

A (44:58)

I know you have a broken heart now, but like I said, you know, I think you need to put yourself out there, because this is my opinion. When you keep insisting on trying to be with the wrong person, which is what you were trying to do, the right person is out there trying to find you, and you need to give them an opportunity to find you.

B (45:17)

Yeah, you got to be available.

A (45:19)

Yeah. You know, you have to be available and give them a chance because they don't know where you are. They're not gonna knock at your door. Right. And I think there's nothing better. Like, once you are in a happy, wonderful, fulfilling relationship with someone that really accepts you is the best remedy for forgetting, you know, the crap that did.

B (45:37)

Not accept if it's with attention. Like, I. I wanna. Yeah, I think, like, of course I want to be in a relationship. Of course I want to find, like, the right woman, but I also don't want to distract myself with the wrong women. And like, Like, I don't want to get into a habit of, like, you know, like, serial dating or, like, trying to hook up with women or partying. Like, it's like, okay, yeah, of course I want to be in a relationship. So that needs to be with intention. It's to be clear. Needs to be like, I need to screen these people more carefully.

A (46:05)

You have to be very picky. And I think I told you one thing that I do. I always say, like, do you want to do a video date? Because if the person tells you no, they just want you to. To take them to dinner or something. They don't want to do a video date or talk on the phone with you. Usually it's like a red flag. Like, they have something to hide if they have nothing to hide.

B (46:25)

So it's like we meet and then it's like, okay, let's talk on FaceTime or video. Yeah, I mean, I would do that exactly. Like, I don't think I'd Jump into a date with anyone that I didn't feel super comfortable with.

A (46:33)

Right.

B (46:34)

Who I hadn't at least seen videos.

A (46:35)

Yes.

B (46:36)

Like, even if I didn't do a FaceTime video, I definitely would need to see a significant amount of, like, social media videos or something. Right. Send me videos or. No, I would. I don't know. I'd never. I don't think maybe 20 years ago, when dating apps started or something, you know, you. There were surprises or you didn't know if people showed up, like, their photos. I don't think now it's like, at least for me, it would be. I just wouldn't end up with someone who doesn't look like their photo or video. I mean, they may not have chemistry.

A (47:05)

People do that. You know, people.

B (47:07)

That's gaslighting. Is that gaslighting? Or that's. No, that's.

A (47:11)

That's fishing.

B (47:13)

It's. It's catfishing.

A (47:15)

Catfishing.

B (47:15)

Catfishing.

A (47:16)

It has happened to me. It has. I. I've. I was catfished in the past. Like, I see these pictures of this guy and everything, and we text, and then when I show up at the restaurant, I barely recognize them. Like, dude, what's wrong with you? Like, they don't even know.

B (47:31)

20 years ago.

A (47:31)

Yeah.

B (47:31)

From 20, 30 or something. Whatever. Yeah.

A (47:34)

So this is why after that, I'm like, no, I. My time is so precious. I am never gonna go anywhere without, like, doing a video call and stuff. Because people that are real and honest, they have no problem showing themselves, you know, telling you who they are.

B (47:48)

Yeah. No, I mean, for me, if I was gonna take you out from a dating app, I would be like, show me your Instagram.

A (47:54)

Yeah.

B (47:54)

I'd be like, send me a video.

A (47:56)

Yeah.

B (47:56)

I probably would be a little more obnoxious about it. Like, let's FaceTime. Show me a video. Like, there's no way I'm gonna take you out, because I'm not gonna do a coffee date. Like, I'm just not a Starbucks. Like, meet.

A (48:06)

Oh, my God.

B (48:07)

Some relationship coach.

A (48:08)

So boring.

B (48:09)

Years ago, she was a relationship coach, and she was like, basically, you got to play the numbers game where, like, she was saying the best way to. To. To date off the dating apps is to, like, set up multiple coffee dates.

A (48:19)

Oh, my gosh.

B (48:21)

She likes. She'd post up at, like, Starbucks and have, like, five, six dates.

A (48:26)

Oh, my God.

B (48:27)

She's like, you can't just go out and waste, like, time on dinners and drinks.

A (48:30)

And this is, like, horrible advice.

B (48:32)

You know, if I'm gonna go date I want to be at a nice dinner.

A (48:34)

She's the kind of.

B (48:35)

Maybe a glass of wine. So I'm going to screen the girl enough that I know I'm going to be okay having dinner with. Now you get to dinner. The chemistry may or may not be there, but I don't know, I. I just, I can't remember the last time where I like, you know, met someone, you know, I didn't know. I took out to dinner where there was like some massive surprise.

A (48:53)

I mean, but this lady, this relationship coach, whoever he is, I don't.

B (48:57)

A woman. Yeah.

A (48:58)

Yeah, this, you know, the serial dating, like coffee shop. It just, it's like desperation.

B (49:04)

Yeah. It seems like a lot of work to me. It's like you're gonna set up. You're like set down like an interview process. Like runs a lot of applications.

A (49:12)

Exactly. Like, oh my God, someone like putting.

B (49:14)

Name tags on them.

A (49:15)

I know the whole thing.

B (49:17)

I couldn't do that.

A (49:17)

Yeah, no, never. Yeah. I think that's horrible advice. Whoever this woman is, don't do it. Date with intention. Take your time. I am a good example. Right. We were talking about my situationship. I was tangled up in that for two years and I kept letting this wrong person come back, as you know very well. And like, taking crumbs. And if you're taking crumbs, taking crumbs, taking crumbs, it starts messing up with your self esteem, messing up with your ego. And then if you give yourself a chance to someone else, you might find somebody that treats you really well and you could see yourself like in a happy, wonderful, amazing relationship. And this is what you deserve, you know, you deserve much more than. Crumbs.

B (49:56)

Crumbs. Yeah, no crumbs, no crumbs. Can we do like a no crumbs party?

A (50:01)

No crumbs party.

B (50:02)

No crumbs party.

A (50:03)

No crumbs.

B (50:04)

Invite all the single people.

A (50:05)

Yeah, we could do like. You know what I saw one time on Remember Sex and the City. I love that idea. Like, they did a party that it was all singles and each single person should bring a single friend to see, like if they're single friends liked each other. That's a good idea. Maybe we could do that.

B (50:24)

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone should be having dinner parties and inviting single people. Like, I think I'd much rather have a dinner party at home.

A (50:30)

Yeah.

B (50:31)

Invite a few people and then everyone's got to invite someone single. So there's like.

A (50:34)

That's what I meant in this case. Like everybody said, hey, bring a single friend. So you never even if hopefully there is somebody has chemistry with somebody else. If not, then you just meet like a bunch of new people.

B (50:45)

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

A (50:46)

Yeah. But before we run out of time, Zen Arts is doing amazingly well. Right. We're in the middle of party season holidays. You're planning all these incredible parties. You plan Christmas parties, you plan New Year's parties, birthday parties, Everything under the sun. Right. What is the biggest budget anyone ever gave you for a party?

B (51:08)

Oh, it's a really good one. I mean, we did a, a ten million dollar wedding.

A (51:14)

Oh my God.

B (51:15)

In Florida for. It was an, for Indian wedding. That was pretty lavish.

A (51:19)

Wow. $10 million. That just for entertainment or for the whole way?

B (51:23)

No, the whole wedding. I mean, that's a lot.

A (51:25)

How much for entertainment?

B (51:27)

This is like probably like a million and a half.

A (51:29)

Oh my God.

B (51:29)

I think it was over a million in flowers.

A (51:32)

Wow.

B (51:35)

I mean, we've done some pretty lavish weddings, but I think the Indians are the most lavish that, that I've experienced.

A (51:41)

And they spend serious money.

B (51:43)

They don't spend any expense.

A (51:44)

I hope the, the marriage lasts forever for this.

B (51:47)

I'm not sure what the success rate is.

A (51:49)

Did anybody ever ask, do you remember the, the craziest thing anybody wanted in a party and could you do it?

B (51:59)

Yeah, I mean, we've had, I, you know, I've had some like there was a time kind of even before pink started flying around stadiums where someone wanted some, you know, an artist to fly around a stadium. And we made that happen. We're like with, with three dimensional flying and it's probably a couple million dollars to do this kind of rigging and kind of using this sort of sophisticated flying systems. But I mean, I've also been a, you know, had clients have asked me like, you know, can we have, you know, six girls peeing in champagne glasses? I get kind of a little bit of everything, you know, from like high end.

A (52:34)

And you're like, yeah, if you're paying. Yes.

B (52:35)

Stadium stuff.

A (52:36)

But what's the answer to that? Yes. Can they pee in the champagne glass? Yes.

B (52:40)

Oh, I mean, yeah, we could do that.

A (52:41)

Oh my God. I mean, people with money, they can get crazy, right?

B (52:47)

Yeah.

A (52:47)

I mean, yeah, I can only imagine.

B (52:49)

I don't tend to do anything that sexually overt, you know, unless it really makes sense. But yeah, we do a little bit of everything.

A (52:54)

I can only imagine the stuff you must have seen in all the years you've been doing parties. But it's a really fun life.

B (53:00)

It is fun. Yeah. It's fun.

A (53:02)

Well, thank you so much for being on Cat on the Loose.

B (53:04)

Thank you.

A (53:05)

I am sure love is trying to find you. I'm looking, so keep on. Yes, he's looking, ladies. So if you're listening to the audio episode, he looked at the camera. If you're listening to the audio episode, don't forget to you can watch the entire video episode on our YouTube channel, Cat on the Loose podcast and you can see mini bits and clips of our episode on our social media. Real Cat on the Loose and Cat Zamuto is all over the place. And to see Doug, the Instagram is Zen Arts. La. Right, Instagram. Instagram is Zen Arts. And I mean, that's the best place to see you. There are few pictures of you there, but not a lot. Not a lot. He's very mysterious. Yeah. But if you go, if you girls want to meet him, feel free to Send me a DM and I'll hook you up.

B (53:53)

Slide into her DMs or Zen Artsy's. DMs.

A (53:56)

Yeah, they can slide better. Better.

B (54:00)

Okay.

A (54:01)

To go straight to the source. Thank you, Doug. Was such a pleasure. And I'm sure I won 100 bucks. Bucks from you.

B (54:06)

No, no.

A (54:09)

Oh, you're gonna. You're gonna buy me breakfast?

B (54:11)

Okay, we'll see.

A (54:12)

We'll see, guys. Be safe out there and I'll see you very soon. Many kisses. This was fun.

B (54:17)

Thank you.

A (54:18)

Thank you, though. All right, this is a really good one. For everyone that loves to play poker and everyone that is planning a trip to Las Vegas, I invite you to come check out the most fun, fun, private game in the city, held right inside Aria's VIP poker room. Even if you're not that into poker or new to the game, this is a great opportunity to network with businessmen, athletes and celebrities in a Super exclusive environment. Mr. Beast and Dan Bilzerian have played in it. Golf pros have played there. It's like an elite, exclusive social club, but also a really fun, fun environment to play. Texas, no limit. Hold them. It's blowing up. Definitely one of the hottest places in Las Vegas right now. But your name needs to be on the list in order for you to gain access. So make sure you send me a message through Instagram at Real Cat on the Loose or text me or Send me a WhatsApp at 1-310-692-0578 and I will put your name on the list.

B (55:24)

List.

A (55:24)

They also offer incredibly special comps that are available only to my guests. They will reimburse Aria hotel fees for up to $350 in case you decide to stay at the Aria Hotel. They will give you private transportation from the airport to your hotel and to the game. And they will give you access to airfare deals for business and first class. I mean, they will totally roll out the red carpet it for you. And you're going to have so much fun. Table 1 is the place to play poker in Las Vegas. Why do you think it's called table one? Because it's the number one game in town, baby.