ZEN ARTS CEO DOUG MILLER

Summary

Podcast Title: Kat on the Loose
Episode: Zen Arts CEO Doug Miller
Host: Kat Zammuto
Release Date: December 18, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Kat on the Loose, host Kat Zammuto welcomes Doug Miller, the founder and CEO of Zen Arts. The conversation delves into their unique platonic friendship, the dynamics of male-female friendships, challenges in the modern dating scene, and insights into Doug's illustrious career in luxury entertainment.

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The Friendship Between Kat and Doug

Kat and Doug share a close, platonic relationship that serves as a testament to the possibility of deep male-female friendships without romantic entanglements.

• Doug Miller [03:13]: "We are neighbors, we live the same area, our dogs are friends. We never dated; we never had anything romantic whatsoever."

• Kat Zammuto [04:04]: "We are a perfect example of how men and women can be great friends from the get-go."

Their relationship challenges the common misconception that men and women cannot maintain purely platonic friendships without underlying romantic or flirtatious dynamics.

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The Myth of Male-Female Friendships

Kat and Doug discuss the societal skepticism around platonic friendships between men and women, emphasizing their own experience as proof that such relationships can thrive.

• Doug Miller [04:23]: "You came up to me and you're like, you're so fabulous."

• Kat Zammuto [04:27]: "I didn't come up to you. Oh, okay. I almost said his name."

They humorously recount their initial interactions, clarifying misunderstandings about their intentions and reinforcing the strength of their friendship.

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Doug’s Background and Zen Arts

Doug provides an overview of his journey as an artist and the evolution of Zen Arts into a leading luxury entertainment company.

• Doug Miller [12:14]: "I was always an artist and I started playing music professionally when I was 10 years old."

• Kat Zammuto [13:19]: "Zen Arts has been around since 2008, creating multimillion-dollar parties, weddings, and luxury events."

Zen Arts specializes in creating bespoke, high-end entertainment experiences for a diverse clientele, ranging from private events to large-scale productions in venues like Las Vegas and the Canary Islands.

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Challenges of Dating in Los Angeles

The discussion shifts to the complexities of the Los Angeles dating scene, highlighting the isolation and hectic schedules that make finding meaningful connections difficult.

• Doug Miller [11:16]: "Dating in Los Angeles is not an easy thing. And it wasn't easy when I was 25, it's not easy now."

• Kat Zammuto [22:00]: "What do you think is the most chaotic or the most difficult part in terms of, you know, being single and trying to date again?"

Doug emphasizes the challenges of meeting potential partners amidst a busy lifestyle dominated by work and high-profile events.

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Experiences with Dating Apps

Kat and Doug delve into the frustrations and pitfalls of modern dating apps, discussing issues like superficial connections, financial expectations, and the prevalence of individuals seeking sugar relationships.

• Doug Miller [24:05]: "Men's top complaint is that so many women hit them up for money right away."

• Kat Zammuto [23:15]: "I think if you're putting 22 or something, very unlikely you're gonna meet a good match in terms of being in a relationship with."

They critique the efficacy of popular dating apps, citing experiences where interactions often lead to transactional relationships rather than genuine connections.

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Thoughts on Matchmakers

The conversation explores the role and effectiveness of professional matchmakers, with both sharing skepticism about their success rates and methodologies.

• Doug Miller [35:42]: "I hope none of my friends who've paid this kind of money have found success."

• Kat Zammuto [38:14]: "Most matchmakers tell women not to have sex until you're in a committed relationship. I think it's emotional blackmail."

Kat expresses dissatisfaction with the rigid rules imposed by matchmakers, questioning the balance between fostering meaningful relationships and imposing unrealistic constraints.

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Advice on Dating with Intention

Kat and Doug offer practical advice for listeners navigating the dating landscape, emphasizing the importance of intentionality, authenticity, and setting personal boundaries.

• Doug Miller [43:42]: "I think I'm just scared of having to swipe on photos on my phone to consider someone."

• Kat Zammuto [44:07]: "I always say, do you want to do a video date? Because if the person tells you no, they just want to take them to dinner or something. They don't want to do a video date or talk on the phone with you."

They advocate for fostering genuine connections through video interactions before meeting in person, reducing the likelihood of catfishing and ensuring mutual interest.

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Closing Remarks

Kat wraps up the episode by highlighting Zen Arts' impressive portfolio, including extravagant weddings and themed events. Doug shares anecdotes about the creative demands and flexibility required to meet diverse client expectations, underscoring the company's reputation for delivering unforgettable experiences.

• Doug Miller [48:45]: "We did a ten million dollar wedding in Florida for an Indian wedding. That was pretty lavish."

Kat encourages listeners to connect with Doug and explore Zen Arts' offerings, emphasizing the blend of artistry and luxury that defines the company's events.

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Notable Quotes

• Doug Miller [19:48]: "Being a man and who has their shit together... there's a lot of stuff you have to filter through as a man in LA."

• Kat Zammuto [41:10]: "No, I'm never gonna go anywhere without, like, doing a video call and stuff."

• Doug Miller [43:42]: "If you're not, the algorithm's gonna send you everything. The wrong type of thing, and you're gonna get caught up in all this bullshit that's out there."

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Conclusion

This episode of Kat on the Loose offers insightful perspectives on maintaining platonic friendships amidst societal expectations, navigating the tumultuous waters of modern dating, and building a successful career in luxury entertainment. Doug Miller's candid experiences and thoughtful advice provide valuable takeaways for listeners seeking meaningful relationships and professional fulfillment.

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Connect with Doug Miller and Zen Arts:

• Instagram: @zenarts
• Website: Zen Arts

Follow Kat on the Loose Podcast:

• YouTube: Cat on the Loose Podcast
• Social Media: @realcatontheloose, @kat.zammuto

Transcript

[Kat Zamuto]

My guest today, Doug Miller is the founder and CEO of Zen Arts.

[Doug Miller]

They create custom made incredible events, weddings, multi million dollar parties, super super fun, magical world that Doug lives in and.

[Kat Zamuto]

Also he's a really good friend.

[Doug Miller]

We are neighbors, we live the same area, our dogs are friends, we never.

[Kat Zamuto]

Dated, we had, we never had anything romantic whatsoever.

[Doug Miller]

We are a perfect example how a.

[Kat Zamuto]

Guy girl can be really really good friends. And I love confiding in Doug and vice versa.

[Doug Miller]

He's just mending a broken heart getting.

[Kat Zamuto]

Off of an engagement. He is just putting his foot back into the dating scene in la. So we had a lot to talk about and I hope you guys enjoy.

[Doug Miller]

This really fun, light hearted episode of.

[Kat Zamuto]

Cat on the loose.

[Doug Miller]

Always 100 organic, never edited, never scripted. This episode of Cat on the Loose is brought to you by Girly a la Mode Building a worldw community for body positivity, self love and inclusion. Hashtag Everybody is beautiful. Every single piece on the collections is great for every single body regardless of size, height, background, age. Super cozy hoodies, sweatshirts, beanies, sweatpants, adorable affordable gifts. Everything on the website is under 100 bucks. Check it out, you're gonna love it. And of course I love the message. Let's spread some love with Girly. G I R L I E A la Mode. Girly Alamoda Shopping and on Instagram Girlya La Mode. Are you an entrepreneur, business owner or major expert in your field? Guess what, your knowledge is worth money.

[Kat Zamuto]

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[Doug Miller]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Doug Miller]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Doug Miller]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Doug Miller]

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[Kat Zamuto]

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[Doug Miller]

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[Kat Zamuto]

Send a message te WhatsApp to 310-692-0578 and start the year monetizing your content.

[Doug Miller]

Big time on LightSpeed VT. Doug, welcome.

[Kat Zamuto]

To Cat on the Loose. I finally got you here. Yes. Took a bit. It took a while. Right. But here you are. And I'm very happy to have you.

[Doug Miller]

I'm happy to be here.

[Kat Zamuto]

So before we talk about your fabulous company and your amazing work with Zen Arts, let's explain to people our background. Like I was seeing in the car, not only you're my guest, but we're besties and neighbors.

[Doug Miller]

Yes. We are friends.

[Kat Zamuto]

We are. True. A true example of how. Because I get that a lot on the podcast. You know, I've been doing Cat on the Loose for four years now, and it's a big debate out there in the relationships and dating world that most people do not believe that men and women can just be friends. They think there is always going to be some kind of flirting or romantic dynamics. And we are a perfect example that men and women can be great friends from the get go.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, when we first met, if you remember, we met at the solo house.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes.

[Doug Miller]

In, in la.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes.

[Doug Miller]

And I didn't know you. You were actually, I think, with someone.

[Kat Zamuto]

I was with that, you know who I was with. That situationship person that I was with.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, you were with whatever. You're someone. I was with a friend. A male friend.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes.

[Doug Miller]

And you came up to me and you're like, you're so fabulous.

[Kat Zamuto]

I didn't come up to you. Oh, okay. I almost said his name. The situationship guy came up to you and started talking to both of you. Yeah, he started talking to both of you. And then I asked for your. Because I asked what you did and you said, oh, I'm the owner, president of Zen Arts. And I immediately looked at your Instagram like, oh, I want to hit him up because I want to work with him.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

But I think it was always just friendship.

[Doug Miller]

No, no, I think you initially, you're like, if you want to go on a date.

[Kat Zamuto]

I did not.

[Doug Miller]

Yes, you did. You said, if you want to go on a date, I'm totally interested in going on a date. And I said, you know, I, I, you're not really my type, but I'm down to hang out.

[Kat Zamuto]

We never. Yeah, you're talking about somebody else.

[Doug Miller]

You don't remember?

[Kat Zamuto]

No.

[Doug Miller]

Remember putting it out there?

[Kat Zamuto]

I did not.

[Doug Miller]

You put it out there a little bit.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, I, I still have our. Okay, we're gonna check after the podcast because we didn't.

[Doug Miller]

If you have the text thread from the very first day.

[Kat Zamuto]

I have the text.

[Doug Miller]

I'm sure there's something in there.

[Kat Zamuto]

I swear to God.

[Doug Miller]

Something in there.

[Kat Zamuto]

The Text thread. I said, hi, Doug, how are you doing? We met at the Soho House. And by the way, I saw your Instagram and I immediately started talk because I want to be your social. I wanted to be your social media manager. And then you asked me. I'll tell you what the story was, but I do have the threat. I can prove it.

[Doug Miller]

Okay, two sides of this.

[Kat Zamuto]

Then you said to me, oh, do you have any girlfriends to introduce me? And then, remember at the time, I thought about Aaliyah.

[Doug Miller]

Oh, no, no. Yo. No, but what you said. What you said was, I'm single. No, that's what you said. No, you're right, you're right, you're right. I did it because. Because I was like, hey, you seem amazing. Do you have any single girlfriends? And you were like, I'm single.

[Kat Zamuto]

I did.

[Doug Miller]

And I was like, kat, come on, I know you've got some single girlfriends.

[Kat Zamuto]

Okay, we're gonna look at the trap. I swear to God, we never.

[Doug Miller]

Okay, so we're doing a follow up episode to clarify.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes, guys.

[Doug Miller]

Because in my rec, shady was.

[Kat Zamuto]

Let's bet a hundred dollars on it.

[Doug Miller]

Okay, $100.

[Kat Zamuto]

Listen, I don't know. And we don't.

[Doug Miller]

If it's not there, doesn't mean it didn't happen either, though.

[Kat Zamuto]

No, it. I have the thread. I didn't. I'm telling you. This is why I started this, this episode with this conversation. Because from the get go, I thought you were, like, super nice. I. I love your work. I think you're very talented. You're an artist. We're going to talk about all of that. But same. I didn't have the vibe like, I want to date you. I had the vibe I wanted to be your friend. And I was really, like, you know, very in that situationship.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, regardless, we got through that very quickly. Like, it was like. But.

[Kat Zamuto]

But it didn't have. It wasn't me or something. It wasn't me.

[Doug Miller]

We're gonna go through those text messages and you're gonna pay me a hundred dollars.

[Kat Zamuto]

You're gonna.

[Doug Miller]

Because we got through it so quickly you don't remember it, you're gonna pay.

[Kat Zamuto]

Me a hundred dollars. Okay.

[Doug Miller]

Okay. So we're gonna show up on your screen over here.

[Kat Zamuto]

We're gonna show up on this podcast.

[Doug Miller]

Of who had to pay who.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes, Who.

[Doug Miller]

Who confirmed.

[Kat Zamuto]

But I swear to God, I did not. Never wanted to go on a date with you. With all the respect, I love you and adore you, but I think you're wrong on this. I think it was Somebody else? No, no, no.

[Doug Miller]

But anyway, it was very simple. It was just kind of. You just said, hey, I'm single. Do you have any single friends?

[Kat Zamuto]

I didn't say that because I wasn't.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, you were technically single. Well, okay, you're wrapped up in things, but you're.

[Kat Zamuto]

I was wrapping up.

[Doug Miller]

You were on the dating apps at that time, too, Because I saw you.

[Kat Zamuto]

I was.

[Doug Miller]

At the same time, I was like, I think on Bumble or something, and however many years ago, because I Not been on a dating app in a long time.

[Kat Zamuto]

No, I will talk about that too.

[Doug Miller]

Because now I'm like, oh, should I go back on a dating app?

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, of course.

[Doug Miller]

The best thing I've ever did is, like, not being on the dating apps in the sense of, like, not swiping. But there was a moment around that same time where I swiped. I was swiping, and I saw you in your profile, and you're so you. So you're gonna say your word single. But at the same time, you're absolutely.

[Kat Zamuto]

For sure, because I was as. You know, we're not gonna say in his name, but I was in a very horrible, complicated situationship. I knew the he wasn't the right guy for me, and I was kind of falling for him, and I was trying to meet somebody else so I could get out of it. So I agree. I was on the dating apps. I didn't want to date you. I wanted to introduce you to some friends. It never worked out. But the good news is the best thing the situationship ever did for me is that we ended up meeting each other and we became really close friends, and we did work together, and turns out we're neighbors, which really helps, right? And we're, like, a block from each other. I love your dog. You like my dogs. And. But before we do the entire episode arguing, because I know I'm right.

[Doug Miller]

The bottom line, she's not right. She's not right.

[Kat Zamuto]

And he's looking at the camera, he's.

[Doug Miller]

Like, she's not right.

[Kat Zamuto]

Guys, I'm right. I have to think where you're gonna take me with the hundred bucks, but whatever. But we are proof that guys and girls can have an amazing friendship. So I just wanted to demystify this. This silly myth out there, because so many guys, they write to the pot, and they're like, no, I'm always gonna try to flirt with my girlfriend. And the girls are like, I don't want to have guy friends because the guy's always gonna try to sleep with me. But that's not the case.

[Doug Miller]

No. I mean, I just had lunch yesterday actually with two women that I've known, you know, that are friends of mine that are super gorgeous, super talented, very fashion driven women. I mean, these girls are hot. We, we're friends. Like, we had lunch yesterday, we hung out, we hang out. You know, occasionally we'll have dinner parties. We, you know, there's those lines are never crossed and we compliment each other all the time. It's like, oh, you're hot, you're hot. Like, I appreciate this. And we talk about dating and like, you know, they talk about the guys they're dating and they're on the dating apps or what they're not finding or what they would like. And like, I've been going through a breakup and I'm talking to them about that. Yeah, it's like we kind of just share our relationship, you know, status and what's going on and I don't know. I really do appreciate the women that I'm friends with. And I think as I get older, I just can't have every woman in my life be someone I'm trying to pursue or date. Like, I appreciate the women that are in my life that are friends that I can confide in, that I can like see a female perspective from, that I can just spend time with. It's not me chasing them to try and have sex with them or date them.

[Kat Zamuto]

I love that you said that because I feel the same way. For some reason, I really get along with guys because I think unfortunately, many times, you know, women are catty, right. They're jealous of each other or they want to get your boyfriend. La la, whatever. I love talking to my gu. Guy friends because it's a male perspective. It's always different from the female perspective and in your case, the other way around. Although I have to say parentheses, you know, I'm gonna say that as your friend. You don't listen when it comes to the dating thing. It's a little complicated because you want my point of view, like the woman's point of view, but you continue doing the same.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

So, you know, that's one thing I'm gonna say. Like, maybe you should, like, listen a little more.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. You know, I mean, dating, dating in Los Angeles is not an easy thing.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

Like, and it wasn't easy when I was 25, it's not easy now. You know, it's like dating is just not easy. And it's a lot.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

I think being a, being a man and who has their shit together and you know, I've got, I've got, you know, several. I have a lot, I'm doing well and I've got a really nice life. And I feel very fortunate in a lot of ways. And at the same time, like the amount of stuff you have to filter through as a man in la, with.

[Kat Zamuto]

Women, it's very difficult and vice versa. But yeah, and we're gonna talk about that. But let's rewind the tape a little bit. For people that don't know you, let's explain because you said, oh yeah, you are always around so many beautiful women. You have like such a magical life. So let's, let's give everybody a little bit of your background. You are, you were an artist. You started this fabulous company called Zen Arts Luxury Entertainment. Tell us like in a nutshell how you got there. You are a fire eater.

[Doug Miller]

I think.

[Kat Zamuto]

Well, a long time ago.

[Doug Miller]

I am a fire dancer. It's a little different when you're eating fire. I would never eat fire.

[Kat Zamuto]

Okay, so you never ate the fire?

[Doug Miller]

I would dance with fire. Yeah, like, kind of like Cirque du Soleil, Burning man, you know, like dancing with different tools on fire. I think it goes further back for me is that I was always an artist and I started playing music professionally when I was 10 years old. So I think as a child I was always going to be an artist and it just manifested, the mediums manifested in different ways. Like it might have been a saxophone or a guitar and then it was a fire, it was fire dancing. And now it's kind of, I think evolved into me art directing and producing and directing full scale entertainment and shows that are Runway ready, Cirque du Soleil esque, dance oriented choreography, costumes design, art design, set design. I mean all these things kind of piled into like the art direction of an entire sort of production and show versus like one tool, one thing on stage. But it's been a journey for me, I think since I was a child being an artist.

[Kat Zamuto]

How long ago did you start Zen Arts?

[Doug Miller]

Zen Arts, we started in 2008.

[Kat Zamuto]

So it's been around for quite a long time and it's super well known. I know you guys create this crazy multimillion dollar parties, weddings, luxury events. Correct. You do everything.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, I've done theater stuff. I've worked with Beyonce and Madonna and done stuff with Cirque du Soleil and I've had my own theater shows and, and then I've done private events and corporate events and one offs. Like we did a big party in, in la. A couple nights ago that was like a private event. And then I'm doing right now in talks to do a dinner show in Vegas. It'll be a residency, one of the bigger hotels there for a year versus like we did a show in Reno last year for six months. And it's kind of. It's. There's a lot. It's a lot. You know, it's like from private events to. Could be like. I'm just doing. We just booked a wedding in the Canary Islands in a few months, you know, Spain and then. Yeah. Stuff in Vegas, stuff in la, stuff in New York, stuff in Miami. So it's always kind of evolving, but it's high end entertainment that's customized generally to either a show or a stage or some private sort of venue.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, I've been to a few of your events with you and they're always like to die for. Like we were talking before the podcast started, we went to the record label New Year's party like a couple years ago, I think Empire Records.

[Doug Miller]

Empire Record for the Grammys.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes. Yeah. For the Grams.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

I don't know, I thought it was New Year's. And basically they hire you to do the entertainment. So you had those girls that dance in, you call the lollipops, Right.

[Doug Miller]

Aerialist.

[Kat Zamuto]

Aerialists. It's like super sexy stuff. You have ac. Acrobats all over the party and that's the kind of stuff that you do. We've been to a lot of other events. We've been to that super famous girl, what's her name, that did the birthday party in a mansion. Chloe.

[Doug Miller]

Chloe, yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, literally. I know. I'm like, she has the luckiest handle for Instagram in the world because it's just Chloe.

[Doug Miller]

Oh, that's her handle. I don't know.

[Kat Zamuto]

That's her hand. Not even Khloe Kardashian has that handle. It's hers.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

So she has like almost 5 million followers now.

[Doug Miller]

Okay.

[Kat Zamuto]

But that was a fabulous party as.

[Doug Miller]

Well, for her birthday.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah. And so just so people can picture in. In their heads. But of course, I'm gonna put the link of his website, Instagram, here on this episode so you guys can go and see the video so you can like, you know, illustrate what we're talking about. But for example, if somebody wants to throw a super high end fabulous birthday party and they want to put mermaids in the pool, you do that. If they want gorgeous dancers dancing by the bar, you do that. Whatever a person dreams in terms of enter entertainment, you can come up with it.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. Do a lot of music and choreography and dancers and costume design and. Yeah, we customize everything. We just did an event, actually. It was really nice in Orange county for a billionaire client of ours. And the theme was One Night in Bangkok. So it was a Thai theme where we built a temple over the pool and covered the pool and it was a Thai temple. And we created all this different entertainment from singers and live music to dancers to specialty acts and fire dancing and different things, you know, revolved around the theme of Thailand and One Night in Bangkok with all the costumes are very specific. And so that kind of stuff's really fun for me where it's kind of a one off and we get to customize the entire thing. It's like putting on a Broadway show in someone's house, you know, I love them. For one night. For a million dollars.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my God. A million bucks for a party? Holy cow.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, for the entertainment.

[Kat Zamuto]

For the entertainment.

[Doug Miller]

Party is probably more like 3 to 5 million. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my God. That's crazy. Yeah, we're gonna get there. I'm gonna ask about the cost and all the. But so just explaining this is why you're always around gorgeous people. Because of course you have a lot of dancer friends, a lot of. And. And these girls, like, have. Obviously they have insane bodies. They're so beautiful. So it's like a magical world that you live in.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, I think there's this mis. Misconception that, like, I'm either dating or sleeping with all these women that I'm creating art with, which is not true. It is not the case at all. I mean, a lot of the women I work with are half my age, first of all, and they're all. It's a very familial, safe environment. So for me, it's like if I'm working with a bunch of dancers and they're 20 years old, we're creating art together. It's more my vision of what I need to be creating. It's not me trying to get in their pants. So I'm not dating these girls. And it might seem like that. And it's probably fairly intimidating for some women that might come into dating with me of like, oh, you're surrounded by all these women all the time. Like, you're the world of like, my social media looks very sexy, and that's just not the case. It's not like that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right. I mean, you don't even do your personal social media for yourself. It's really just the social media for the Company, Right. You're selling.

[Doug Miller]

I don't have a social media the.

[Kat Zamuto]

Event, but I would think that a girl should date you. And we were talking about it because of, of the breakup you're going through. I think a woman for you has to be someone really confident in their skin and just they trust you, period. Yeah, yeah, Right. If it's somebody like with an insecure personality that, like, if you're in a party or an event or you travel like you said, you go to Las Vegas, you go, you were in New York for Halloween. Same stuff. If they think every single time you're doing this multi million dollar events, you're going to be banging a dancer, it's never gonna work.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, I think too, I don't know that people that aren't in entertainment don't understand, like how much work and focus it takes, whether it's to be a stage performer or a musician, part of a band, or to have a show like a theater show like Cirque du Soleil or to be working with like Beyonce. Is that like everything's. It's a lot of discipline and it's a lot of work and there's a lot of training that goes involved and it's not as much of a party as it might seem. You know, for us, I think, you know, I work and create some of the most luxurious parties with some of the most like lavish venues and locations all over the world. But for us, they're creating that art. It's about us expressing who we are and what we're doing. It's not about drugs and partying and sex.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

It's like backstage is not what you might think it is.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, I agree. I think maybe people that are not in the entertainment industry, they have a much harder time understanding the life of an artist and the long hours and the crazy schedules that we have. So maybe wouldn't it be easier for you to date somebody who is in this world as opposed to somebody who is not?

[Doug Miller]

I mean, yes and no. It's like, I do think, like, for me it's nice to. I mean, I appreciate being with an artist too, because I love art.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

But also, like, for me to be with a woman, the woman needs to be spiritually conscious and aware and have a good handle on who she is. And I can't be with someone who's partying, who's living sort of rock star lifestyle in the sense of like on the road all the time or like, it's hard for me to date a D. Like, I don't know if I could date a dancer, you know, because they're always busy. Yeah. Or they could be on tour tomorrow. Right. So it's like these. These, you know, to be a professional dancer in Los Angeles, you're auditioning every day, and then, you know, you may or may not get a job tomorrow, but then next week you might be on tour.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

You know, with Usher for six months or a year or two years. And there's no. That's not gonna not happen.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

So it's like, it's kind of like a not. It's not a very stable environment, but at the same time, like, these dancers are very young and they're like, this is what they want to do. And there's a short window of doing that. And I don't know that anyone in that world's like, setting themselves up to be in a long term relationship, but for me, it's like that world. So. Yeah, I mean, I do appreciate, and I have had some really good relationships with artists, and I do appreciate at least someone that needs to appreciate art, understands art, enjoys art, whether they're creating it or not. Certainly makes more sense for me than being with somebody that's totally disconnected from fashion and art and music.

[Kat Zamuto]

Same for me.

[Doug Miller]

Because those are all super important to me.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, same for me. So now you're single again. You were going through a tough breakup because you were engaged. Right. You thought, that's it. You literally put a ring on a finger of this person and it didn't work out, and now you're like, picking up the pieces. Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Now I'm back in the game.

[Kat Zamuto]

You're back in the game. And I think personally that's the best way to mend a broken heart is to be back in the game and keep trying to find the right person for you. That's what I think. You know, but you were mentioning that you didn't do the dating apps for a long time. What do you think is the most chaotic or the most difficult part in terms of, you know, being single and trying to date again?

[Doug Miller]

I mean, I think for me, and I'm not really doing a lot of that, like, I'm just like just now recently single, so I'm not out setting up a lot of dates. And I think. But the challenges are, at least in a city like Los Angeles. I don't know how it is in New York or San Francisco, but we're in our own bubble. We're disconnected in a lot of ways. We're segregated and, you know, we're kind of in our own world. So it's like, where, like, I'm not going to a bars or I'm not. If I'm at an event, I'm usually involved in the event. So I'm not like, like, you know, consciously meeting people at an event. And then I'm working all the time. So. And I'm going, I'm sleeping and going to bed and working out and taking care of my body. So the things, the schedule is pretty rigorous. So where, where do you meet somebody in midst of all that? The, I mean, the dating apps are an option. It's not something I'm doing right now. It's something like people have been suggesting and I've done in the past. And the problem with the dating apps for me is that it's just this window shopping of, like, swiping on women. And I think for me, it's like, if I was gonna go, if I was gonna do that again, it would need to be with more intention and a little bit more clarity and like actual, like I, I, for instance, in the past, I, I, when I was on a dating app, I probably put an age range from 22 to 40.

[Kat Zamuto]

Which is a bad idea.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't do that.

[Kat Zamuto]

35. Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

To 45 or something. Right. Like, I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't even want to be dating women in their twenties.

[Kat Zamuto]

No, I agree. We talked about that. I think, you know, if you're putting 22 or something, very unlikely you're gonna meet a good match in terms of being in a relationship with. Yeah. So you gotta be a little more focused.

[Doug Miller]

Well, with the algorithm, I think, like, if I, if the age range is 22, then I'm getting girls, you know, that are in bikinis, you know, on private jets or in yachts in San Tropez or whatever. And I'm swiping on that because it looks good in a photo.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And then all of a sudden, the algorithm's only showing me these girls that are, like, hitting me up and wanting to, you know, wanting either their rent to be paid for or wanting sugar daddies or you don't want to be taken care of or don't have jobs or just flat out broke or.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Want to be models or.

[Kat Zamuto]

So that's what we were saying before we started recording that the number one complaint of most men, always, always, always. I've been doing this podcast for four years now, guys, and it's always the same thing. Number one complaint of guys through dating apps is that so many women hit them up for money right away. Right up front.

[D]

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[Doug Miller]

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I mean, I think the dating apps, like, have. There's a lot of. There's just straight up hookers all over the dating apps. And so the dating apps are kind of flooded with, like, this sort of thing. Right. Whether it's straight up girls that are hookers or girls are just looking for sugar daddies or whatever. And I don't. Other than, like, really being intentional and, like, maybe not swiping as much like. I don't know. Someone told me the League is an app that they send you, like four or five people a day. Right.

[Kat Zamuto]

I gave you the.

[Doug Miller]

But how many people do they send you a day?

[Kat Zamuto]

Three.

[Doug Miller]

Okay, three. You get three options. But that may not be bad. Like, because even if. Even if there's a hundred options.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

You probably should only be swiping on three options because the problem is, at least as a guy and me, I could just spend all day swiping on these apps. And then before you know it, you spend a couple hours in one app and you swiped on like 50 women. And so then the algorithm.

[Kat Zamuto]

But you gotta be peak here, you know.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. Because if you're not, the algorithm's gonna send you everything. The wrong type of thing, and you're gonna get caught up in all this bullshit that's out there.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah. But have you had. When you were using the data apps, did that ever happen to you? Like, that a girl sends you a message and even before you guys meet and like, ask. Because that's what I've been hearing from a lot of guys, that even before the first date, they're like, hey, well, are you. You have to bring me a gift on a first date. What are you gonna do?

[Doug Miller]

I've gotten all that before. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my God.

[Doug Miller]

Like, I'll go out with you, you know, but bring me a gift or, you know, oh, my God, how, you know, can you afford me tonight?

[Kat Zamuto]

Can you afford me?

[Doug Miller]

I mean, I've had. I've had more. I've had more. More situations where I've taken somebody out to dinner in the past and everything's been fine. And I didn't pay the girl any money or anything. Maybe we went for a nice dinner and it cost 300 for dinner, and like, she's making out with me at dinner or by the end of dinner, and then she wants to go on another Date. And then she asks, like, you know, oh, by the way, I'm looking to be taken care of. I'm like, I had a really good time with you, but, like, you know, I am looking for someone who's gonna, like, support me.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my God.

[Doug Miller]

And take care of me.

[Kat Zamuto]

That. I. I think women are doing themselves a huge disservice doing that.

[Doug Miller]

There's a lot of that just today.

[Kat Zamuto]

I know there's a lot. I don't think it's just in la.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

I don't know, because I hear that from, like, every place on Earth. I get messages. We get messages from people everywhere in the United States. We get messages from people from all the countries. Anybody that uses the dating app, if you talk to guys, you can, like, talk to a guy in France. You can talk Brazil. All the Brazilian guys complain, like, oh, my God, all these girls want something from me. You know, And I think it just. Yeah, like you said, even if they're not whores, but it makes you look horrible. Like, you're just meeting a guy and you're asking him for gifts and money.

[Doug Miller]

Maybe. It depends on the app, too. Like, I tried the Raya app a few years ago, and, like, that's the app. It's like, exclusive and every. I have a bunch of friends on that app now, and they're like, oh, you know, you have to be vetted and you have to be referred. And I don't know how it is now because this is years ago. But, like, when I. When I got on this. This app, Raya, they had to vet you by your social media.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

So you couldn't even be on. Well, you had to be referred, first of all. And then you had to have, like, a significant social media presence to be accepted on that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And at the time, I don't have a personal Instagram. Right.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

So my Instagram is Zen Arts. So I got referred, I applied. They're like, well, no, you don't have an Instagram. And I basically made a case, like, no, this is me. This is my Instagram. I can show you everything to show you that this is my social media. I don't have a personal Instagram. And they accepted me on the. On the app. And then I. I think, like, what I found was, at least at that time, it was, like, filled with all the wrong girls for me because, like, I was. I was swiping on the girls that are Instagram models and, you know, like, look great in all these fancy photos. Like, girls that have fashion and G string bikini photos. And whatever. And so I quickly, like, these girls that I would go on dates with or meet were like, looking for sugar daddies. Looking for celebrities.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Like, looking to be celebrities themselves, you know, like, because they wanted, like, you know, to gain more followers themselves. It was like, exactly the girl I don't want to be with. So I had to delete that app. I couldn't be on that dating app.

[Kat Zamuto]

Same Raya for me is the same thing. A few years ago I tried it the, the. The reverse side. Of course, all the guys there, they want to be actors, they want to be musicians. You know, they. A lot of them are like, unemployed, but they look good because they have like a nice Instagram with all kinds of modeling pictures. I'm like, that's exactly the kind of people that I'm not interested in going out with at all. And there are some famous people in there, both women and men, but a lot of actors, but they don't want a relationship. They just wanna.

[Doug Miller]

Or they even have quick sides.

[Kat Zamuto]

They just wanna have fun.

[Doug Miller]

Even on it. Because, like, I have a. Yeah, I had a couple friends at the time that were celebrities, women and female. I mean, female and male were like, their, their, their profiles were on the app and they were never on the app. They're like, yeah, I don't even know. I'm not even. I'm not even on that app. I think some people, they might have created a profile.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

But they were never on it. Or like the apps kind of got them, you know, I think they.

[Kat Zamuto]

I think maybe they are, but they just want, like a quick fling or something.

[Doug Miller]

You know, maybe I just. All the attractive, like, celebrities that I know, I don't really need to go on a swipe again.

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly.

[Doug Miller]

Get attractive women and then the guy. A couple of my male friends that are on the app, like, I've seen some of the women they go out with. Like, Like, I've met them and I've heard the stories and like, Like, I've never heard anything good. Like, all my friends have been dating girls off the Raya app. It's like a disaster.

[Kat Zamuto]

Because, listen, but that's one thing too, right, that I, I want to talk about you. You and your friends, probably. But you do that. I don't know if you still do it. But anyways, you go on these apps and, and the, the girl that you guys take on dates, you know, are not the girls that would be good for relationship, but you take them out because they're sexy, they're beautiful. Very likely you're Gonna have good sex quickly. But you guys know that that's not gonna lead to a relationship, but you still do it, and you keep dating the same pattern of girl.

[Doug Miller]

I've been like that in the past. It's not what I would do now. Yeah, in the past. The version of me that was dating in the past, you know, partying.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Drinking, sex, rock and roll. That kind of like, that person was like, yeah, I know this is not going to be my wife, but I'm going to take this girl out on a date from the dating app.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

But I don't know if I was good, if I was good. Whenever I get to that, if I'm going to be on a dating app, I would do it with much more attention.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

I would screen girls way more, you know, considerably. I wouldn't go on dates all the time. I wouldn't. It would be very rare that I go on a date. I would screen the person more heavily. I don't know. I'm just still not. I'm just still not there because I'm. I think I'm just scared of, like, having to, like, swipe on photos on my phone to consider someone. But, you know, I've had a couple friends that are doing matchmaking, which I.

[Kat Zamuto]

Haven'T done, but matchmaking is like a fortune.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. I mean, my friends are. A couple of the companies are working with. They're paying 10, 15, 20 grand, I'll tell you.

[Kat Zamuto]

You know, I've interviewed pretty much every matchmaker out there. They all have, like, their little crazy theories and everything. I never had a great experience with matchmakers because they all try to match me because they've been on the podcast, and I don't think they do a great job. I'm not sure. As a guy, and no disrespect to them, I would pay this kind of money to, you know, for a service. But, I mean, it depends how badly I don't.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, I probably have three or four friends that have, like, paid this kind of money. I hope none of my friends. It's worked out for.

[Kat Zamuto]

That's what I'm saying.

[Doug Miller]

They keep talking about other people. They know that it's worked out for that somehow they've been convinced.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Like, one of my friends has tried it, and he's had no success.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, they do send him really good quality girls. It's like, okay, like, they'll send him this girl who's like a Stanford grad and is a CEO of some company, but there's just something that doesn't work out.

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly.

[Doug Miller]

Nothing works.

[Kat Zamuto]

I don't think they do a good job like figuring out if the two people really match and want the same things. You know what I mean? It's kind of like luck because, like, if you pay them, they have a database of girls, so they got to pick from that database. And they promise you. Usually that's how the matchmakers, they promise you three or four dates. And so they have to deliver. So whoever is on that database, they have to do as best as they can. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm sure they have their rate of success, but for me, honestly, never, ever, ever, they've sent me on like a half ass decent date.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, my only. My only personal interaction with it, with a. With a matchmaker was like a couple years, a few years ago, maybe right before COVID It was like someone approached me that was a matchmaker, and they had a girl that was one of their clients. It was a woman who was paying all this money. Very, very wealthy woman. And they. And they found me and they said that, like, I was. I was a potential.

[Kat Zamuto]

Was that she in Salt Lake City or something?

[Doug Miller]

I mean, I'm not getting into, like, you know, where she was from.

[Kat Zamuto]

Okay. But she was out of the. Out of town. Yes, I remember that lady. Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And they wanted. They. She was gonna fly in to meet me, blah, blah, blah. And like, they. I don't know. For some reason, they. They found me. Just like they find anyone, I'm sure, right? The matchmakers. I'm sure they're scouring social media, whatever, but they found me. And they're like, we have the perfect girl for you. And I'm like, you're a matchmaker. Like, no, no, you don't have to pay. She's already paying us. But we want to set up a day with you guys.

[Kat Zamuto]

I remember that.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

So, I mean, that's my only experience.

[Kat Zamuto]

But it didn't work.

[Doug Miller]

No, no, it wasn't.

[Kat Zamuto]

It was not a match at all.

[Doug Miller]

No, no, no, no, no. But we're friends. We had her and I had spoke, and we're friends now, and nothing happened between us. It just wasn't like the right. The right fit. But yeah, I guess whatever she was paying didn't work out for her either. But we're friends. We became friends.

[Kat Zamuto]

There you go. And another thing that matchmakers do that I personally really don't like and disagree with and including many of them that have been on the show. You guys can go listen to the episodes and make your own conclusions. But they have these rules, like, these absurd rules. For example, most of them, they. They tell the women, like, don't have sex until you have a commit. You're in a committed relationship. Like, withhold sex.

[Doug Miller]

Okay. With all the books.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

They even control that. What does that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Well, no, because they say it's a rule, and if we find out you had sex, we're gonna kick you out. And we're completely against it that most of them. That's. And I think it's absurd personally to tell someone because I almost think it's, like, emotional blackmail somehow. Like, one of my guy friends said, like, you're basically holding the vagina hostage because you want to date someone for six months. Whatever it takes. Two months, two months, three months, six months. And not have sex until the guy looks at you and says, oh, okay. I mean, I want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship with you. How do you know if you don't know if you guys have sexual chemistry?

[Doug Miller]

I don't even think that exists. I mean, that kind of dating doesn't. I mean, not. Not with. It doesn't work for me. There's no way. I mean, I. I could. I mean, where I'm at right now in my life is that I could go out on dates and not have sex because I'm just not. That's not what I'm rushing to do right now.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

But, like, months. No, there's no way.

[Kat Zamuto]

That's what I'm saying. I'm never rush. Ever, ever, ever. But after a while, I want to know if the sex is good before I commit to be with that person. Only.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, if I was, like, someone I'm friends with, like. Like, there's some women that I'm friends with, like, where we've already established we're in the friend zone kind of thing.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And then maybe over months or years or whatever, like, as friends, and there starts to turn, like, some attraction, you know, then maybe that could. Could kind of manifest or grow in that way.

[Kat Zamuto]

Totally different.

[Doug Miller]

But to set things up as, like, I'm going on a date.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And it's interesting because I talked to the women I was with yesterday, my friends, they're both, like, wanting to take things very slow, and they're going on dates, so, like, they really want to take things slow. Like, they want. They want to take months and months. They don't want to sleep with anyone right away. And.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

And. But they're on the dating apps and going on dates and, you know, we Were having this conversation of, like, well, okay, how do you take it slow? Because, like, if you're on a dating app and you're going out on a date, it's like, I would respect that the woman doesn't want to sleep with me right away, but what, how long is that? How many dates am I gonna take her on?

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly.

[Doug Miller]

How much time am I gonna spend with her? Because let's just say it turns into four dates, five dates. Now it's a couple months. Yeah, well, now we're just in the friend zone. It's like, I'm gonna shut off the energy, right. If I'm really that attracted her, I'm probably just gonna move into a friendship and not really pursue anything. Yeah, but, but at what point do you both feel safe and comfortable to.

[Kat Zamuto]

Like, cross the boundary or you're going to end up going on a date with someone else.

[Doug Miller]

Right. Because that, that one, because that one's my friend. Now I'm in the friend zone. So we're gonna, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start seeking something from someone else.

[Kat Zamuto]

I, but that's what I'm saying. This is why I disagree so much with the way matchmaker do things. I don't think it's a good idea, Good way to convince someone to commit with you to being only with you. Withholding sex. I think it's just a bad game.

[Doug Miller]

Maybe the matchmakers think that, like, there's more success by withholding sex.

[Kat Zamuto]

I, I, well, I'm just saying, me, I disagree. You know, I, I, you know, I don't date a lot, but when I date after so many dates, I'm like, okay, we have to have sex. Because if the sex sucks, you know, to me, it's a deal breaker. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone that I don't have physical chemistry with.

[Doug Miller]

No, I mean, I couldn't be with somebody, like, for a long period of time and not, like, explore the physical connection either.

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly. So I don't know, maybe you should go back to the dating apps.

[Doug Miller]

I wouldn't even know which which apps at this one.

[Kat Zamuto]

I told you, you should do Bumble. Bumble is always great. Maybe Hinge. You know, you should try a few. Put yourself out there.

[Doug Miller]

There's no new app. Like, these are apps have been, like, going on for so many years. There's no.

[Kat Zamuto]

I know.

[Doug Miller]

There's no new apps out there that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Are coming out that I heard of. I know that. I mean, to me, Tinder is a shit show. I don't recommend Tinder, I think it's the worst quality of people.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. I have money, change.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah. But they're my experience.

[Doug Miller]

I used to be on Tinder years ago too, and that was better when I was traveling.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Like Tinder. In some countries, people like, are not using Bumble. Right. So it could be like whatever, Eastern Europe, Europe or South America or wherever. They might use Tinder more. But I mean, in my experience, but like, again, my dating app experience is like five years ago or something.

[Kat Zamuto]

So I don't.

[Doug Miller]

Not sure what the dating app world looks like now.

[Kat Zamuto]

I know you have a broken heart now, but like I said, you know, I think you need to put yourself out there because. Because this is my opinion. When you keep insisting on trying to be with the wrong person, which is what you were trying to do, the right person is out there trying to find you, and you need to give them an opportunity to find you.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, you got to be available.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah. You know, you have to be available and give them a chance because they, they don't know where you are. They're not going to knock at your door. Right. And I think there's nothing better. Like, once you are in a happy, wonderful, fulfilling relationship with. With someone that really accepts you is the best remedy for forgetting, you know, the crap that did not accept.

[Doug Miller]

If it's with intention. Like, I, I wanna. Yeah, I think, like, of course I want to be in a relationship. Of course I want to find like the right woman, but I also don't want to distract myself with the wrong women. And like, I don't want to get into a habit of like, you know, like, serial dating or like trying to hook up with women or partying. Like, it's like, okay, yeah, of course I want to be in a relationship. So that needs to be with intention. It's clear. Needs to be like, I need to screen these, these people more carefully.

[Kat Zamuto]

You have to be very picky. And I think I told you one thing that I do. I always say, like, do you want to do a video date? Because if the person tells you no, they just want to take them to dinner or something. They don't want to do a video date or talk on the phone with you. Usually it's like a red flag. Like, they have something to hide if they have nothing to hide.

[Doug Miller]

So it's like we meet and then it's like, okay, let's talk on FaceTime or video.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, I mean, I would do that exactly.

[Doug Miller]

Like, I don't think I'd jump into a date with anyone that I didn't feel super comfortable with.

[Kat Zamuto]

Right.

[Doug Miller]

Who I hadn't at least seen videos.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yes.

[Doug Miller]

Like, even if I didn't do a FaceTime video, I definitely would need to see a significant amount of, like, social media videos or something. Right?

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly.

[Doug Miller]

Send me videos. No, I would. I don't know. I've never. I don't think. Think maybe 20 years ago when dating apps started or something, you know, you. There were surprises or you didn't know if people showed up, like, their photos. I don't think now it's like, at least for me, it would be. I just wouldn't end up with someone. It doesn't look like their photo or video. I mean, they may not have chemistry.

[Kat Zamuto]

People do that. You know, people.

[Doug Miller]

That's gaslighting. Is that gaslighting? Or that's. No, that's.

[Kat Zamuto]

That's fishing.

[Doug Miller]

It's catfishing.

[Kat Zamuto]

Catfishing.

[Doug Miller]

Catfishing.

[Kat Zamuto]

It has happened to fish in a while. It has. I. I've. I was catfished in the past. Like, I see these pictures of this guy and everything, and we text, and then when I show up at the restaurant, I barely recognize them. I'm like, dude, what's wrong with you? Like, 20 years ago or something. So this is why after that, I'm like, no, I. My time is so precious. I am never gonna go anywhere without, like. Like, doing a video call and stuff. Because people that are real and honest, they have no problem showing themselves, you know, telling you who they are.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. No, I mean, for me, if I was gonna take you out from a dating app, I would be like, show me your Instagram.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

I'd be like, send me a video.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

I probably would be a little more obnoxious about it. Like, let's FaceTime. Show me a video. Like, there's no way I'm gonna take you out, because I'm not gonna do a coffee date. Like, I'm just not a Starbucks. Like, let's meet.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my gosh.

[Doug Miller]

Some relationship coach.

[Kat Zamuto]

So boring.

[Doug Miller]

Years ago, she was a relationship coach, and she was like, basically, you got to play the numbers game where, like, she was saying the best way to. To date off the dating apps is to, like, set up multiple coffee dates.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my gosh.

[Doug Miller]

She talked this whole thing of, like, she likes. She likes. She post up at, like, Starbucks and have, like, five, six dates.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, my God.

[Doug Miller]

She's like, you can't just go out and waste, like, time on dinners and drinks.

[Kat Zamuto]

And this is, like, horrible advice.

[Doug Miller]

You know, if I'm gonna go on a date, I Want to be at a nice dinner.

[Kat Zamuto]

She's the kind of.

[Doug Miller]

Maybe a glass of wine. So I'm gonna screen the girl enough that I know I'm gonna be okay having dinner with.

[Kat Zamuto]

No.

[Doug Miller]

Now you get to dinner. The chemistry may or may not be there.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

But I don't know, I just. I can't remember the last time where I, like, you know, met someone, you know, I didn't know I took out to dinner where there was like some massive surprise.

[Kat Zamuto]

I mean, but this lady, this relationship coach, whoever he is, he's a woman. Yeah, yeah, this. You know, the serial dating, like, coffee shop. It just. It's like desperation.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. It seems like a lot of work to me. It's like you're gonna set up. You're like, set down like an interview process. Like, runs a lot of applications.

[Kat Zamuto]

Exactly. Like, oh, my God, someone like putting.

[Doug Miller]

Name tags on them.

[Kat Zamuto]

I know the whole thing.

[Doug Miller]

I couldn't do that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, no, never. I think that's horrible advice. Whoever this woman is, don't do it. Date with intention. Take your time. I am a good example. Right. We were talking about my situationship. I was tangled up in that for two years. And I kept letting this wrong person come back, as you know very well, and like, taking crumbs. And if you're taking crumbs. Taking crumbs. Taking crumbs. It starts messing up with your self esteem, messing up with your ego. And then if you give yourself a chance to someone else, you might find somebody that treats you really well. And you could see yourself, like, in a happy, wonderful, amazing relationship. And this is what you deserve, you know, you deserve much more than crumbs.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, no crumbs.

[Kat Zamuto]

No crumbs.

[Doug Miller]

Can we do like a no crumbs party?

[Kat Zamuto]

No crumbs party?

[Doug Miller]

No crumbs party.

[Kat Zamuto]

No crumbs.

[Doug Miller]

Invite all the single people.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah, we could do like, you know what I saw one time on, Remember Sex and the City. I love that idea. Like, they did a party that it was all singles and each single person should bring a single friend to see. Like, if they're single friends like each other. That's a good idea. That maybe we could do that.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone should be having dinner parties and inviting single people. Like. Yes, I think I'd much rather have a dinner party at home.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah.

[Doug Miller]

Invite a few people and then everyone's got to invite someone single. So there's like, you know, that's what.

[Kat Zamuto]

I meant in this case, like, everybody say, hey, bring a single friend. So you never even if hopefully there is somebody has chemistry with somebody else. If not, then you just meet like a bunch of new people.

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[Kat Zamuto]

Yeah. But before we run out of time, Zen Arts is doing amazingly well. Right. We're in the middle of party season holidays. You're planning all these incredible parties. You plan Christmas parties, you plan New Year's parties, birthday parties. Everything under the sun. Right. What is the biggest budget anyone ever gave you for a party?

[Doug Miller]

Oh, it's a really good one. I mean we did a, a ten million dollar wedding.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh my God.

[Doug Miller]

In Florida for. It was an, for Indian wedding. That was pretty lavish.

[Kat Zamuto]

Wow. $10 million. That just for entertainment or for the whole way?

[Doug Miller]

No, the whole wedding is mean. That's a lot.

[Kat Zamuto]

How much for entertainment?

[Doug Miller]

This is like probably like a million and a half.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh my God.

[Doug Miller]

I think it was over a million in flowers.

[Kat Zamuto]

Wow.

[Doug Miller]

I mean, we've done some pretty lavish weddings, but I think the Indians are the most lavish that, that I've experienced.

[Kat Zamuto]

And they spend serious money. Right.

[Doug Miller]

They don't spend any expense.

[Kat Zamuto]

I hope the, the marriage lasts forever for this.

[Doug Miller]

I'm not sure what the success rate is.

[Kat Zamuto]

Did anybody ever ask, do you remember the craziest, biggest thing anybody wanted in a party and could you do it?

[Doug Miller]

Yeah, I mean, we've had, I've, you know, I've had so like there was a time kind of even before pink started flying around stadiums where someone wanted so, you know, an artist to fly around a stadium. And we made that happen. We're like with, with three dimensional flying and it's probably a couple million dollars to do this kind of rigging and kind of using this sort of sophisticated flying systems. But I mean, I've also been a, you know, had clients that have asked me like, you know, can we have, you know, six girls peeing in champagne glasses? I get kind of a little bit of everything, you know, from like high end.

[Kat Zamuto]

And you're like, yeah, if you're paying. Yes.

[Doug Miller]

Stadium stuff.

[Kat Zamuto]

But what's the answer to that? Yes. Can they pee in the champagne glass? Yes.

[Doug Miller]

Oh, I mean, yeah, we could do that.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh my God. I mean, people with money, they can get crazy, right?

[Doug Miller]

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

[Kat Zamuto]

I can only imagine.

[Doug Miller]

I don't tend to do anything that sexually overt, you know, unless it really makes sense. So, yeah, we do a little bit of everything.

[Kat Zamuto]

I can only imagine the stuff you must have seen in all the years you've been doing parties. But it's a really fun life.

[Doug Miller]

It is fun. Yeah. It's fun.

[Kat Zamuto]

Well, thank you so much for being on Cat on the Loose.

[Doug Miller]

Thank you.

[Kat Zamuto]

I am sure love is trying to find you. I'm looking, so keep on. Yes, he's looking, ladies. So if you're listening to the audio episode, he looked at the camera. If you're listening to the audio episode, don't forget to. You can watch the entire video episode on our YouTube channel, Cat on the Loose podcast, and you can see mini bits and clips of our episode on our social media. Real Cat on the Loose and Cat Zamuto is all over the place. And to see Doug, the Instagram is Zen arts. La, right?

[Doug Miller]

Instagram, Just Zen art.

[Kat Zamuto]

Instagram is Zen art. And I mean, that's the best place to see you. There are few pictures of you there, but not a lot.

[Doug Miller]

Not a lot.

[Kat Zamuto]

He's very mysterious. But if you go, if you girls want to meet him, feel free to Send me a DM and I'll hook you up.

[Doug Miller]

Slide into her DMs or Zen artsy's.

[Kat Zamuto]

DMs. Yeah, better. Better. Okay to go straight to the source. Thank you, Doug. Was such a pleasure. And I'm sure I won 100 bucks bucks from you.

[Doug Miller]

No, no.

[Kat Zamuto]

Oh, you're gonna. You're gonna buy me breakfast?

[Doug Miller]

Okay, we'll see.

[Kat Zamuto]

We'll see, guys. Be safe out there and I'll see you very soon. Many kisses. This was fun.

[Doug Miller]

Thank you.

[Kat Zamuto]

Thank you, though.

[Doug Miller]

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