Dave Smith Just EXPOSED The Whole Damn SYSTEM

Summary

Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels Episode: Dave Smith Just EXPOSED The Whole Damn SYSTEM
Release Date: May 8, 2025

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Overview

In this compelling episode of Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels, host Jillian Michaels engages in a deep and unfiltered conversation with political commentator Dave Smith. The discussion navigates through a myriad of pressing societal and political issues, exploring themes such as government regulation, legalization, the effectiveness of progressive prosecutors, and international conflicts. The dialogue is punctuated with candid insights, notable quotes, and thought-provoking perspectives, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the topics at hand.

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Legalization of Drugs and Prostitution

The conversation kicks off with a debate on the legalization of various activities. Dave Smith articulates a libertarian stance, advocating for the decriminalization of non-violent actions between consenting adults.

Dave Smith [03:49]: "There's nothing between two voluntary adults that should be illegal. If there's no victim, it's not a crime."

Smith emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between violent crimes and consensual activities, arguing that regulation often unnecessarily criminalizes behaviors that do not harm others.

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Government Regulation and Power

Jillian Michaels and Dave Smith delve into the complexities of government regulation, particularly in business and personal freedoms. Smith critiques the expansion of governmental power, suggesting that excessive regulation leads to corruption and inefficiency.

Dave Smith [06:31]: "Once you have a more powerful superstructure to regulate corporations, that power is just going to corrupt absolutely."

He draws on philosophical principles, referencing Lord Atkin to illustrate how increased governmental power tends to lead to corruption, thereby hindering true reform and fostering a climate of mistrust.

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Progressive Prosecutors and Their Impact

The discussion shifts to the role of progressive prosecutors in the American legal system. Smith argues that while some reforms, like addressing mandatory minimums and bail system disparities, are beneficial, the broader agenda of decriminalizing property and violent crimes undermines public safety.

Dave Smith [17:03]: "Once the law goes beyond common universally accepted morality, like murder being wrong, you end up with tyranny."

He contends that the push for decriminalization has led to unintended consequences, including increased violence related to black markets and a weakened stance against criminal activities.

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Critique of Californian Policies

California's stringent laws and their societal impacts become a focal point as both speakers express frustration with the state's regulatory environment. Smith highlights the rise in homelessness, drug abuse, and the challenges these pose to communities.

Jillian Michaels [15:39]: "Entire blocks just taken over by homeless junkies. It's just mad."

The conversation underscores the tension between regulation intended to protect and the real-world outcomes that often contradict these intentions, leading to greater societal issues.

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Political Commentary on Donald Trump and Other Figures

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing Donald Trump's influence and legacy. Smith praises Trump's ability to take on systemic corruption but criticizes his approach to governance and decision-making.

Dave Smith [24:23]: "Donald Trump is a tragic figure in a lot of senses. He's the most brilliant showman of all time."

Despite acknowledging some of Trump's policy successes, Smith points out his lack of depth in knowledge and the chaotic nature of his administration, which complicates efforts to achieve meaningful reform.

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COVID-19 Response and Fauci

The hosts critically examine the government's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly focusing on Dr. Anthony Fauci's role. Smith accuses Fauci of misleading the public and mishandling response strategies.

Dave Smith [44:56]: "Telling people that you can't get hurt by this if you take the vaccine is a clear crime against humanity."

This segment highlights the distrust in governmental health agencies and questions the transparency and effectiveness of their actions during the crisis.

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Israel-Palestine Conflict

The episode delves into the enduring Israel-Palestine conflict, with Smith providing a historical perspective on the origins and ongoing challenges of the region.

Dave Smith [64:14]: "The creation of the state of Israel resulted in 700 to 800,000 Palestinians being forcibly removed or fleeing."

Both speakers acknowledge the complexity of the situation, with Smith advocating for Palestinian autonomy while recognizing Israel's security concerns. The discussion underscores the deep-seated issues that continue to fuel the conflict.

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Concluding Thoughts and Final Questions

As the conversation winds down, Jillian Michaels and Dave Smith engage in a light-hearted segment featuring a series of rapid-fire questions. This portion offers listeners a glimpse into Smith's personal preferences and beliefs outside the heavy political discourse.

• Favorite Book That Changed Your Life?

  Dave Smith [70:59]: "The Ron Paul Revolution was the first book I read of his."

• Would You Rather Debate Rachel Maddow or Ben Shapiro? And Why?

  Dave Smith [71:38]: "Ben Shapiro, because it's a much tougher debate and more relevant to my interests."

• If You Were Arrested Tomorrow, What Would It Be For?

  Dave Smith [72:48]: "Probably some of the stuff I say against the government. Maybe getting into a fistfight under the right circumstances."

These questions add a personal dimension to the episode, showcasing Smith's intellectual influences and his approach to contentious debates.

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Conclusion

This episode of Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels offers an incisive exploration of significant political and social issues through the lens of Jillian Michaels and Dave Smith. Their candid exchanges provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of topics ranging from government regulation and criminal justice reform to international conflicts and pandemic responses. With a blend of serious analysis and personal anecdotes, the episode embodies the podcast's commitment to honest dialogue and diverse perspectives.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dave Smith [03:49]: "There's nothing between two voluntary adults that should be illegal. If there's no victim, it's not a crime."

• Dave Smith [06:31]: "Once you have a more powerful superstructure to regulate corporations, that power is just going to corrupt absolutely."

• Jillian Michaels [15:39]: "Entire blocks just taken over by homeless junkies. It's just mad."

• Dave Smith [24:23]: "Donald Trump is a tragic figure in a lot of senses. He's the most brilliant showman of all time."

• Dave Smith [44:56]: "Telling people that you can't get hurt by this if you take the vaccine is a clear crime against humanity."

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Resources:

For more insights and discussions, listeners can tune into Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels on major podcast platforms or visit the Crossover Media Group's website for additional content and resources.

Transcript

[Jillian Michaels]

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[Dave Smith]

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[Jillian Michaels]

When your metabolism is working properly, you're going to feel the benefits in literally every aspect of your life. And I have found an invaluable tool that gives me the insights to create a healthy metabolism for my body. And it's called Lumen. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And then on their app, it lets you know, are you burning fat? Are you burning carbs? And it Gives you tailored guidance to improve your health, your workouts, your sleep, stress management. All you got to do is breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning. Then you're going to know exactly what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fat or carbs. And then, as mentioned, you're going to get a personalized plan to help you based on your measurements from the day. You can also breathe into it before and after your workouts, before and after your meals, so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time time. And lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. It's been an invaluable tool for me personally with regard to my own health, my own metabolism, and maximizing and optimizing my routine. Whenever I've had the opportunity to work hands on with people, I utilize this as a tool to guide them. And you can do it on your own at home with your own lumen. The warmer months are coming, guys, so spring back into your health and fitness. Go to Lumen Me, Jillian, to get 15% off your lumen. That's L U M E N me slash Jillian for 15% off your purchase. Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode. Okay, so now I have a series of questions that I want to ask you that will arguably highlight your points. So, first question, legalize everything, yes or no?

[Dave Smith]

That's maybe not everything. I mean, I don't, I don't. But it's a, it would be a strict line that like aggressive violence should be illegal. So, you know, murder and rape and theft and things like that should all be illegal. Okay, but know that drugs, prostitution, nothing. There's nothing between two voluntary adults that should be illegal. If, no, if, if nobody, if there, if there's a victim, nonviolent crime, then it's not a crime. That's an oxymoron. And I mean crime in the, in the moral sense of it being a crime. And you know, look, it's like people were either slaves or were free. It is a binary. Now, there are degrees of how brutal slavery can be, but you're either a free person or you're a slave. And if you, you know, there are lots of bad decisions that we make all the time, and there's lots of bad decisions that none of us would even think about legislating. You know, I like, I mean, I think cheating on your spouse is a really horrible thing to do. A much more profoundly horrible thing to do than shoplifting or something like that. You know what I mean? Like, there's. There's things that are illegal that are not nearly as bad as, like, cheating on your spouse or, you know, whatever, just being a bad parent or something like that. Like, but we would never think to say, like, oh, you have to leave. You should make a law against that. We have to start, you know, having police come in and invest, because this is crazy. And it's the same thing with. With drugs and prostitution and all of this stuff. It's like these might, you know, to some degree they're. I mean, certainly with prostitution and with most drugs, I guess they're like, it's not desirable behavior, that's for sure. But first of all, if you believe that people are free, then they have a right to do what they want with their life. It's the. In the same principle, as Milton Friedman once said, the government more right to control what I put in my body than what comes out of my body, meaning speech, like what I say. And then, of course, there are. There's two other points which I guess would be separate points, but one would be more of like, the consequentialist argument that it's just. It's always a disaster when. When you start to attempt to police this. Frederick Bastiat wrote a great book called the Law, which really kind of gets into this. But, like, once the law goes beyond what is like, the common universally accepted morality, which, like, murder is wrong, is essentially universally accepted by everyone except murderers, you know, which are a fairly small.

[Jillian Michaels]

Percentage, very black and white. I see that.

[Dave Smith]

But once you go into something like, look, I mean, this. Of all the drugs to. To make illegal, alcohol is by far the number one candidate. There is just absolutely no drug that does nearly that much damage. It's something like 50% of the murders committed, the person drunk when they do it. I mean, it's like. It's an enormous amount of domestic violence and drunk driving accidents, and there's just no other drug that even comes close. And. And also, I mean, it just ruins families. I mean, I. I literally know. I mean, I don't know them well, but I literally just heard a story about someone who my wife knows, who's. Their marriage just fell apart because the guy's like, abusing alcohol. This happens all the time. And yet we all know what happened when we had prohibition. This is even taught in government schools. Like, all that happened is that the alcohol bec. Dangerous. You had the rise of Al Capone and the gangsterization of our cities, and it was a disaster, an absolute disaster. The highest homicide rate in American history was under prohibition. And then as soon as we ended the prohibition, the homicide rate, I think it fell by 50% within the first two years and then another 50% in five years, something like that. And by the way, you know, you look around at all the violence in the inner cities today, it's all gang. It's not all. 80% of it is, is gang related. And how do these gangs fund themselves? They fund themselves in the black markets and they fund themselves with drug sales. Right. And so there's the, you know, when you sweep these things into the dark corners of the black markets, there's an increase in violence because it's necessary. It's all illegal activity. Now you make only violent people are the ones who are willing to get into this. And then the other I think insight that libertarians have is that, you know, it's the old Lord Atkin power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And the more like. And this is like, this is the key flaw that like modern day liberals have. I don't mean classical liberals, I just cited Lord Atkin. But modern day liberals have this problem where they, they just don't recognize the power dynamic. And so even in its, in its purest form, if, if liberals are going like, you know, we need regulation on whatever area.

[Jillian Michaels]

Exactly where I was going after this one was would you regulated because it's the thing, right. You know, do you like there's a law in California now about how you can hire or there's. I think it's proposed. It just actually came across my email because the Daily Mail sent it to me to ask me if I would write an op ed about it. I'd never even heard of it. And it has something to do with being able to hire 16 year olds and 17 year olds as. And I was just like, the state is losing its like would you regulate it? Because then you've got like crack addicts all over the street. And these are different.

[Dave Smith]

Look, there's, there's different the question of regulation in terms of like look, so to tackle the them separately, okay, Number one, anything underage should not like children cannot consent. And so absolutely, that's just like children are a different story. Adults are the ones who have control of their rights. I mean children have rights, but they have them kind of in escrow. You know, like your parents are holding on to those for you.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's nice.

[Dave Smith]

And it's, it's, it's our job as parents to like, you know, make the determination and of Course, as, as you know, we both know because we both have kids, you're constantly doing that with your kids. You're, you're constantly like, aware of when you're using force with your kids. Like, you know, because there are things like, I mean, I don't, I don't believe in hitting kids. I don't like use force like in that sense with my kids. But I like, my, my six year old does not have a choice about whether she's going to brush her teeth tonight.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right?

[Dave Smith]

Like, that's not, it's not an option I'm giving her. This is something she has to do. But I am aware. And the standard that I think all parents know on some level, the standard is like, is this ultimately in her best interest? Like, ultimately, when she is, when she's 35 years old, I'm very confident that she'll be like, okay, I'm glad you made me brush my teeth. Like, that was probably a good idea. And parents always, even with this power were never perfect. And we will sometimes use a force and not a suggestion in a way where like that really wasn't for their best interest. That was just because it was a little bit more convenient for me. You know what I mean? And like, and there's a balance there. And you try your best to not become tyrannical and only use that for. But anyway, kids story, they can't consent in terms of regulation of business. The fundamental problem, which is what I was, I was getting to, is that liberals, they fail to recognize the power dynamic. So if you're regulated, if you're like, hey, these big corporations have too much power, we need regulation. It's like, okay, but what's the obvious contradiction there? If something's going to regulate that thing that has too much power, it must by definition have more power than the corporation you're concerned about. And so you now have to create a more powerful superstructure that has the power to impose its will on corporations. And if you understand the Lord Atkin principle, there's, that power is just going to corrupt now. And in fact, the more powerful it is, the more it will corrupt now. And you could look at this, I'll go, you know, there's things corporations do that are not great. The worst of them almost always involve getting the government on board. But if you want to put that up to the crimes of the government, you simply have no match. I mean, and look at the 20th century. It's like, who. You know what I'm saying? Like, we had, that was kind of, there were Some big corporations in the 20th century. But who is responsible for all of the evil? It is government after government after government. Because of course, you need the power of government to really do the most evil things. Now, your other thing, I don't. I want to make sure to not conflate it. That to me is like regulation of the economy and regulation of business is a very different category than government property, which is like, like the streets or a party or something like that. In, in this case, what you essentially have is, well, you have the problem of socialism, which is that when the government owns the property, it's like, who really owns this? Whose is this? But I would argue, and I think this is consistent with libertarian thinking that, look, if the government taxes the people, so they force the people to give them their what is rightfully theirs, their money, and then they use this money to build, you know, streets and highways, schools, hospitals and public parks and yeah, all these things, well, then, okay, they do have an obligation to at least to some degree represent the will of the people here and maintain this as a private business would. So, no, nobody should be going. In my opinion, nobody should be going to sit, to get locked up in a cage for 10 years. Which I also think, again, and I'm sorry if I'm rambling here, but this is another fundamental libertarian.

[Jillian Michaels]

Dave Smith, this is. You're the king, you're the man. This is, this is what's so awesome about you go, well, if you, so.

[Dave Smith]

If you, you know, building off of the libertarian principle that the government is a group of, is a gang essentially, and that the, the character is, the characteristics of their actions are no morally different than the rest of ours. If you ask yourself kind of the, the most basic question when it comes to laws is we're going like, look, who is it morally justified to throw into a cage? You know, like, that's really the question. You know, we, like, prison is a serious thing to do to somebody and it's something that we kind of remove ourselves from. Part of that is because we have the world's biggest prison population. And maybe it's a little uncomfortable to look in the mirror sometimes. But like, if you're, you're talking about enslaving a human being, you're talking about throwing a human being chained up into a cage to very likely be tortured, which is kind of like a joke. Like in our society, it's like a, it's like a running joke on Law and Order. You know, when they're interrogating someone, they go, guys like, you don't do very well in prison. Like, haha. You know, like, this is, it's so crazy. By the way, if you really, like, think that through for a second, like that, that's normalized in like our, our, our psyches. But so if you're, if you're saying that. Do I think that somebody who is shooting up heroin ought to be thrown into a cage, enslaved, treated like an animal for a decade, then no, I think that's, I think that's like monstrously evil. Am I. If they should be kicked out of a playground? That I'm okay with.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Dave Smith]

You know, like if.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Dave Smith]

So if you're. Yes. It's insane. It is.

[Jillian Michaels]

It is regulation, though. David's like, okay, we're going to regulate that. There's no fentanyl and we're going to regulate where you can do these things. Like, you can, you can't. In California, you're not allowed to drink in the car. Well, there's some regulation that actually makes sense to me. It, like, that kind of makes sense because you've seen in certain blue cities where they've legalized everything. Every, all the streets smell like weed and guys are flopped out with needles hanging out of their arms in front of your kid. And I'm like, oh, it's insane.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, no, it's insane. No, I was just, I literally just got back a couple days ago from San Diego, which is like, you know.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know it's not, it's.

[Dave Smith]

I don't think it's as bad as LA or San Francisco, but it's. It's so. It's like heartbreaking because San Diego is a beautiful city. You know, it's just like a beautiful city has got great restaurants and great people and like, great culture. It's all this great. And then there's just like entire blocks that are just like taken over by homeless junkies. And. Yeah, it's just mad. But I will say this. I think that a lot of these, like the progressive prosecutors, as they call themselves, the, The Soros backed up Democratic takeover of the, of the, of the prosecutorial class in America. You know, they've given kind of the libertarians a bad name on this because now people look at this example and they go, whoa, like, we kind of did it your way and look how terrible all of this is. But what really happened, and I remember I was very closely paying attention to all of this, all of this stuff as it happened, is that so essentially these progressive prosecutors, many of them who had to run for elections, they all came up and they basically made the argument that they were like, well, look, I mean, we got people going to jail over possession of marijuana. We have this. That was one of their big ones. Just like we're given these mandatory minimums, these long sentences for, for drug use.

[Jillian Michaels]

And three strikes like that. Yep. No, I see it 100%.

[Dave Smith]

Their, their other big beef was with the, the bail system and advocating reform for that. Which, look, certainly there, there, There is an argument clearly to be made that, like, it is a little bit messed up, that you'll set a price for your. Like you're, you're supposed to have the presumption of innocence, and then you'll be arrested for a crime, charged, but innocent until proven guilty, not convicted of anything. And a judge can say you owe $50,000 in bail, and if you have the means, that's no problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

I'm out and I can go. But if you don't have the means, then you essentially have to have the presumption of guilt and stay in jail until you can prove yourself innocent. So anyway, my point is these progressive prosecutors, they had some points and people. And they ended up winning over. You could see these. This message was very appealing in liberal areas. And then they got in there appealing.

[Jillian Michaels]

To me again, the way you're describing it, and yet I'm like, wait a second, I've lived that part.

[Dave Smith]

Well, because that part's not actually the problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

The issue was never any of that. Like, they could have reformed both of those things and it just would have improved society. The problem is that then they got in there and then they said, we're decriminalizing crime.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Dave Smith]

And we're gonna, we're gonna. And we're decriminalizing property crimes and violent crimes. And we're also just deciding that the public square is now an area where anyone can do anything they want to do. And it's like, no, no, that was never the point. Like, no one ever thought that was a good idea, except, I mean, I guess some insane progressives. But, like, that was so the, so the point is they came in and they made it's. Look, it's like this balancing act, right? Where as I was saying before, it's like, if government is simply protecting people and property, that, like, that's the, the, the optimal range. And if they're doing less than that, then you have chaos. And if you're doing more than that, then you have tyranny. And so what they started doing is just being completely derelict in their duty and saying that, like you know, again, it's not even, it's not a libertarian thing either because it's, it's an anarcho tyranny thing where they come in because it's not as if they're going, hey, it's the wild, wild west. You can do whatever you want to. It's actually that the law abiding citizens of, say, California, as you know, are the most hyper regulated, hyper taxed, hyper, you know, like they have more laws and rules targeting them, but then the criminal class has nothing. So if someone comes in and shoplifts, whatever the rules out there, depending on the city are, now if they shop with $900 from you or whatever, you're not allowed to do nothing. But let's say, let's say the store owner has a gun and pulls it on the guy and says, you give me my money back, right? Or you give me my stuff back right now, maybe even rough some up a little bit, they will throw the book at that guy like. So it's not just that they are not like they've decriminalized people aggressing on you and then they've criminalized you defending yourself 100%. Like it's, it's a statist nightmare, but it's not at all. And then unfortunately, people like me, I feel like, are in the position now where as soon as you say, like, oh, the war on drugs has been a failure, we should repeal it, they go, ah, you're advocating that California stuff. And so it's like, no, it's, it's. Listen, what I'm advocating, if people listen to me, you know, I believe in zero restrictions to the second Amendment and I also believe in the right to defend yourself. And that would clean the whole thing up quite quickly, by the way. You don't need much more than that. Yep.

[Jillian Michaels]

In Florida, the top concern is like, you know, every single dad in the movie theater is carrying. And to be dead honest, you feel much safer when you're at the mall, you're at a restaurant, because you think if one lunatic like flies into this place and opens fire, there's 50 guys here that are just waiting to draw on this guy. Whereas in California they just passed some law that if you shoot someone dead in your own house, you end up in jail for life or however the hell long it is. And I, I can't remember the nuance of it. I just remember my kids asking me about it because my ex still has a handgun that I had bought her when we were together. I'm like, what if mommy has to shoot someone if they break in the house. And I'm thinking you would never even ask these questions if you weren't still spending time in California. That would not. It's like, it's madness. And there was something else that was so ridiculous. I just saw it. Like, somebody can graffiti your property, and it's like a $60 fine, but if you don't clean the graffiti up off of your house.

[Dave Smith]

Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's like 10 times the amount of money. If you don't do it within a certain amount of time, you get fined far more money. It's exactly that.

[Dave Smith]

That's a great example.

[Jillian Michaels]

So, Dave, when you're picking evils, right, because ultimately you had to vote. You had to vote Kamala, you had to vote Trump. It was one or the other. And so often people don't see the nuance. If you were to lean one way or another, because we really don't have a choice, would you take a job, a high level job in the Trump administration right now? Would you take one? Or would you be like, no, I'm, I'm libertarian.

[Dave Smith]

No, I don't, I don't want that. I mean, you know, I guess it's like, my instinct is to say no. And I suppose I should be humble enough to go. Like, it's such a, it's a kind of far fetched idea to me. So, like, doesn't have, like, if it was actually. Well, if it was actually presented to me, I, maybe I would feel like, oh, man, I got to consider this or something. But it doesn't make sense. It's like, I'm not, you know, like my, my role in all this is I don't really bring anything more to the table than, than telling you how I think about this. And you can already get that for free. You don't need to hire me. You know, Like, I'm not, I'm not the guy who's going to be like, oh, I really know how to get into government and execute and move the machinery of government to get the policy that I want through. You'd be much better off getting someone who has some knowledge of that. And then just like, listen to my podcast and I'll tell you what I think you should do. And I just don't, like, I don't think. I just, I don't think that's what I'm supposed to do, you know? Like, I don't, I get what you're.

[Jillian Michaels]

Saying, but I find that people like yourself, I end up begging to go into politics There have been a handful and I could place, like, you know, Adam Carolla, Governor of California. Like, I've, I've listened to that if I could. I know exactly my point. And I, I've. I've put you in the cabinet, in Trump's cabinet, making these changes. Like, in my mind, I've cast this political map like a movie, and you're a character in it. And, you know, people like yourself don't want to do it, though. That's the problem. People like you don't want to go into politics, which, I mean, you're right, you've offered so much, but still, it's like we actually need somebody in there with integrity to make these kinds of changes. Like, who do you want to see in the Oval one day? Who's your dream in there.

[Dave Smith]

Man? I mean, Thomas Massie would be incredible. Rand Paul, I would love to see there. I mean, of course, he's, he's a little. Getting a little old for it, but Ron Paul would have been the, the dream scenario because just, it's great. As great as Thomas Massey and Rand Paul are, just. Nobody was quite like that guy. Just so smart and so wise and so well read. I mean, it was just insane. It was really, truly unbelievable. I mean, he was, he was, he was a doctor who knew more about the history of monetary policy than any economist. I mean, literally, like, if, if you just sat Ron Paul down with 10 economists, Ron Paul will school every single one of them. And also, just like, a tremendous knowledge of history. Like, it was just. He was an unbelievable, just brilliant and, and truly, like, pure soul. And, you know, the other one who comes to mind, I mean, this is, Again, this is not Thomas Massey and Rand Paul were the two I could think of today, but there have been figures like. And while I don't agree with him on, on everything, but, you know, Pat Buchanan ran for president in 1992, and I believe again in 96, or maybe it was again in 2000, but he ran for, for president and was, you know, he didn't end up putting it together and winning the, the primary. He, he tried to primary George H.W. bush, which is a very tough thing to like. Pretty much the toughest thing in presidential politics is to primary the current incumbent president, you know, from their own party. And. But he was like a famous TV host and had worked in three White Houses, had the credentials to do it. And I mean, he was ahead of the game on so much of the disastrous policies of the 21st century. I mean, he was, he was the conservative who broke with Conservatism Inc. First, like their first major guy over the terror wars, starting with George H.W. bush's war in Iraq. Like, he was just like, we should not get in the game of fighting wars in the Middle East. He was way ahead of his time on the debt and insane spending, you know, reckless spending. And so the guys, some, you know, guys like that, I think would, would have been or would be incredible. And, you know, Donald Trump is not, to me quite on that level, but he is probably the closest we've gotten in terms of having somebody who is at least outside of kind of this corrupt establishment.

[Jillian Michaels]

I see that. The part about Trump that just has me banging my head into the wall every day is this like, like there's just so much political capital that he is spending on crap like putting a picture of yourself and a Pope uniform. It just, it's like, why the constant chaos of. Because, Dave, listen, I, I see the genius in some of it. You know, I, I get it. I'm like, okay, you're taking on. I get what you're doing. There's trade asymmetries, and we've got a national security problem because we're manufacturing everything from pharmaceuticals to technologies overseas. And I can see it. I'm like, I'm so impressed you're going to take this on. This is great. How brave. But then it's like, there's a strategy. We don't need the constant chaos. That's the only part that, because. And what, what worries me so much about it is that when this swings back in the other direction, we're getting like, we're not going somewhere middle of the road. We're going full blown woke aoc. You know, I'll never forget when she tweeted this. It scared out of me. And I remember thinking, if Trump had tweeted this, the world would be up in arms. And she said something to the effect of, you know, those of you who voted for Trump or worked in the administration, they're going to be excommunicated from polite society. We're keeping a list. Dave, Dave, Dave.

[Dave Smith]

It's a dangerous. It's a dangerous situation we're in. And I think you are exactly right in the way you just laid it out. And it's. It's actually kind of hilarious the more you think about it. Because it's just this. It's like there's this, okay, so we had kind of the woken sanity. We're in the swing back and you're going like, hey, look, we got to do something with this time, because this swing back here is going to. These people who are. Are going to take it even further the next time they have the opportunity to. And then imagine you're in this disastrous situation and all your chips go in on and you're like, okay, so who do we got? And they're like, we have Donald Trump for you. And you're like, oh, man, that's my shot. Like, this is the one. And listen, I don't say this to knock Donald Trump.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't either, but the Pope. I'm like, what are you doing? Gaza CGI video. Dave.

[Dave Smith]

Dave, here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Dave.

[Dave Smith]

The thing is, look, I've been. Look, I have all types of these swings throughout. Like, even just like the last year where, like, you know, I'll be. I'll be on my show. I'll be like, taking on Kamala Harris. And then like, the MAGA world is like, yeah, we love this. This Dave Smith guy or whatever. And then, like, I had Bobby Kennedy on my show and we had like a great conversation, and then the Bobby Kennedy people are like, yeah, we love Dave. And then I, Then I got mad at Bobby Kennedy over the Israel stuff, and then we had a whole debate about that. And then they're like, oh, we hate you. And then, you know, I, When, When Trump started trashing Joe Rogan, everyone forgets that chapter. Now. I remember that I was like, screw Trump. Joe Rogan's the man. Then the Trump people were all mad at me. Then I ended up, you know, supporting Trump in the end, and the MAGA people were all thrilled with me for that. But, like, forget it. Just forgetting all of this. It's like, if I have any role in this, if I have a job, my job is to tell the truth about, like, my job at the nightclubs is to make everybody laugh. And my job on these podcasts is to tell the truth. So just telling the truth. It's like Trump is. It's a. He's a tragic figure in a lot of senses. He's. America needed someone, and this is all we've got. And he's. He is a genius in his own way. The most brilliant, the most brilliant showman of all time. The most brilliant, like, salesman and self promoter and. And he has some amazing instincts and he can own a room like nobody else can own a room. But, like, if we're just being honest with ourselves, as we all know, the man is an egomaniac who's never read a book. Like, I don't think he's ever read a book about anything. About any one thing. So any issue that he's talking about, he's going off what he's seen on the shows.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Like, there's just no depth of knowledge about any topic, any of them. And. And this is obvious. You know, it's like, everyone. Trump. What's so fascinating about Trump is like, everyone projects their thing onto him, and none of it's real. You know, the left, he's Hitler, the writer. Like, he's our champion. You know, everyone's got. And really, it's just. It's right in front of you, what he is. He's that guy, and he's that guy. You know, the. And that's the problem. It's very limiting. It's very limiting when you don't know stuff, man. And it's like when. When you. When you start, like, when you read about stuff and you. And you really, like, try to really do the work to inform yourself. It's like this weird dynamic that happens a lot in life. It's kind of like, for people. You know, I know my buddy. My buddy Lewis is like. He was like a real fat kid and fat his whole life, and then he got in shape, and he was like. He said at one point how, like, he goes. As soon as I just started, like, working out and eating healthy, I. Then I started realizing how unhealthy I've been all this time. Then I started thinking about it. Then you're kind of aware of where you're not. You're aware. Whereas, like, before, it was just I was fat, I accepted. I never really thought about it. But it's almost as you start. So what happens is, as you start educating yourself, you're like, oh, my God, there's so much I don't know.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

He's like, oh, I'm sorry. You know, like, you. You realize how far. You know, I just always have 15 books that I'm supposed to read that I haven't read yet, and then I really got to read and, like, a new book by someone I love, and I still haven't read that book yet. And, like. And so you're just aware. And there's no. None of that with Trump. He. He doesn't know much about anything, and he's convinced he knows everything about everything, and that works to some degree to, like, for his own ends. It keeps him the center of attention and it keeps us always talking about him. But from my perspective, there's a long way to get back to the beginning of your point. Just to back up how Much. I think you're right. Donald Trump had the political capital and the positioning coming out on January 20th of this year, unlike anyone I've ever seen. I mean, Obama had more, but Obama was not truly outside the system and about to do so. Donald Trump had a mandate from the American people. He took every swing state and the popular vote. He had Bobby Kennedy with him. He had Elon Musk with him. He has this moment, and I do essentially think it's been squandered at this point. Now, it's not that nothing good has come out of it. I think he has done some good things. And, And I don't even. Like, I'm not trying to downplay some of the good things. I mean, like, I agree. Taking on some of the executive orders around DEI and the gender stuff and the stuff with the Department of Education.

[Jillian Michaels]

Controlling the border, the influence of. Of, you know, criminals, like gang members running the border like a business.

[Dave Smith]

He's his control. Forget even the deportations where he's gotten himself into some more trouble and made some questionable moves.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

But in terms of the flow of illegal immigration coming into the country, he's got like an A plus on it. It's unbelievable. It went from record highs to record lows.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's like, that's exactly the part where you could be like, look how amazing he did with the. You know, this is incredible. But then he'll do, like, sit with the ABC report. He's like, no, no, no. Oh, no. It says Ms. 13. You're like, no, no, it doesn't say that. It's. You're decoding that. And I'm thinking, how did they not explain this to him? And then I got to get in that argument with all of my liberal friends who are actually advocating for a wife beater who crossed the border illegally.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And is suspected of human trafficking to come back into the country. And this is what frustrates me with him, is because I feel exactly like what you said, like, it was all right there. Stop. Don't. We don't need this chaos. Crazy.

[Dave Smith]

But it's. It's his only speed, you know, I mean, this is. He doesn't go at a different speed. Like, this is it. And it's. It's just the thing that's. That's frustrating about it is like. And I'm not. I'm not like, trying to downplay any of those wins, but it's like, I just feel like our country is, like driving at 100 miles per hour off a cliff. And in the best Moment foreseeable that we could have. We needed a bit more than that. And, you know, I. I had a post about this earlier today on. On Twitter, and I really try my best, you know, again, I try to call balls and strikes and just be fair with all these people. And it does. As I've started getting kind of, like, bigger, it's. There's a weird dynamic where I start, like, knowing some of these people, and that does make it a little bit more challenging. So, like. Like, I know Bobby Kennedy. It's. It was, like, hard for me to criticize him about stuff because, like, I like him.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

He's been so cool to me, you know, like, he's been. He's really gone out of his way to be a. Just a great person to me. And I know Tulsi Gabbard and I know, like, the. But at the same time, look, between. Look, the crimes that the US Government has perpetrated on the American people over the last just 15 years have been profound. I mean, you cannot. I said that on Twitter. I was like, hey, just to name a few. Just to rattle off a few of the crimes that our governments pulled off, okay. They've lied us into multiple disastrous wars. They instituted totalitarian lockdowns based off lies, lied about the origin of the whole thing, because they made it. I know their own tracks.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's the craziest part.

[Dave Smith]

Before they did that, they framed the current sitting US President for treason intentionally. Like, there's no question about it. The CIA was not confused. The FBI didn't think he was a Russian spy. They knew what they were doing. They flamed the sitting president for treason.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

Also, there was a giant file ring that they were covering up for. Like, I mean, these are just like. And you know who's really made a name for themselves calling out so many of these crimes has been Tulsi Gabber.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Dave Smith]

And Bobby Kennedy and Dan Bongino and. And Cash Patel and all these guys and Donald Trump himself. And yet now they're in power. And for all the talk the media made about, like, oh, he's going to prosecute his political enemies, nobody's being held accountable for any of these crimes. Like, you know, like, I mean, my God, the Jeffrey Epstein stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

Nothing. Where's the list?

[Dave Smith]

You know, by the way, this is such an awkward thing to say, but I said this on Lex Friedman's podcast, and I think I just. I feel like I haven't heard enough people saying this, but it's such an uncomfortable thing to have come out of your Mouth. But it's like, okay, but not even, where's the list? Where's the tapes? And, like, it's such a. Like, it's an icky thing to get into. And I'm like, I don't even know who would have the legal ability to be allowed to, like, review these tapes. And I certainly don't want them, like, put out there publicly. You know, I call for just about anything public. Like, I want the list public. Like, I don't really. If there's underage girls in this, I don't want those tapes being released. But, like, if they were all being recorded, as there's video cameras set up there, like, where's the chain of custody to wear these? These.

[Jillian Michaels]

That tells you everything.

[Dave Smith]

Who's on them?

[Jillian Michaels]

Exactly.

[Dave Smith]

Who's on them and what are they doing? Like, and so the fact that there's just no will to even go for that. Well, like, what does that tell you? It tells you something that there's only. There's only several possibilities of what's going on here. It's like, either these guys in the Trump administration aren't the real deal, and they're not as committed to these principles as they said they were, or perhaps it's. There's. It's not as easy to get this information as you might think. And there's other forces who really control the government. And even being in these positions, they don't quite have the power that we imagine that they have. Or there's a possibility where they were neutralized, compromised in some way along the line. I'm not even saying I jumped to one of them, but you have this moment. You have this mandate. There really was a mandate behind Donald Trump, more so than anything else, more so than immigration or war or the economy or any issue. The mandate behind Donald Trump was to root out the corruption. Like, all of us just know it. It's like the entire system is just permeated with the most blatant corruption. It's like, all of it. It's so. It's too corrupt to stand. This is why CNN has no viewers and all the podcasts are blowing up. This is why even in the Democratic Party now, the only ones who could draw a crowd are AOC and Bernie Sanders is. Nobody wants to support Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer anymore. Right? It just. If you're defending this establishment, like, get out of here. It's just too ridiculous. You know, if it's Bobby Kennedy's, like, as he always says, it's like the. Like, why do people Love him so much. Like, I don't know, you know, it'll be like, you know, it's always the thing. They go, well, he said this thing about the WI Fi. He said this thing about this. He said this kooky thing or that kooky thing. Even the ones to me that do come off kind of kooky. You're like, yeah, but you know what else he said? He said that we spend more money on health care than any other country in the world, and we're the sickest country in the world. And he's the only one bringing up that central point. For years, I've been watching all you bastards run for president and run for everything else, and none of you have ever mentioned that once. It never came up. Obama had a whole goddamn national debate about health care and it never came up.

[Jillian Michaels]

He was going to label GMOs and never did. That's when I was disenfranchised with him because I had all these expectations of policies that he would pass regarding food and GMOs, and all of this stuff. There was. Let's move. All gone. None of. None of it happened. Michelle Obama launched a soda. I was just like, the FDA never got fixed. It's.

[Dave Smith]

It's just.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, the one thing I will say that I find so fascinating is you've got Trump sending this executive order to ban gain of function research, which, yeah, I haven't seen since Brett Weinstein talked about COVID being the result of gain of function research and really getting an idea of what that is and what the implications are. And it's an existential threat, I would argue, as big as nuclear weapons. Trump did lift the moratorium on it. That's the crazy part is Obama put a moratorium on it. Trump lifted it in 2016. And I certainly don't think for any bad intentions, but I would imagine that he. He didn't, as you mentioned, he didn't really know. They convinced him it was a good idea, he lifted the moratorium. At the very least, I have to give him credit for this. He can course correct and change his mind on things, and he did. But when you bring up Epstein, I mean, Dave, I think the bigger question is the. Not only who was behind him, because where's the money? How did this guy even get the money to run this fund? Like, what the. So if he is the asset of some intelligence agency now, it's like, what kind of information are they trying to extract? But how about the fact that they used children in a sex trafficking ring as pawns, we're never getting this information. Never. We're never going to get it.

[Dave Smith]

Probably not. You know, and with, like, with intelligence agency operations like this, you. You never get 100% of the picture, and that's never going to come out. But we do know, I mean, enough about Jeffrey Epstein to certainly say, like, you know, yeah, he was. I don't want to get you in too much trouble on this.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know what, if you don't mind us getting five years.

[Dave Smith]

He was very clearly connected to some intelligence.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah. You know, it's crazy because I know exactly what will push an episode off of a cliff. And it's like, you know, as long as you're like, okay, there's certain people that can push through it, like a Joe or Alex. But, yeah, for me, they're like, oh, yeah, talking about that again. But let's. Let's. Let's rephrase this. If you could get one person on the hook for Covid, if one person was going to pay, who would you choose?

[Dave Smith]

I. I'd say Fauci, because he. He was. He was the face of the thing. And so therefore, it's the most meaningful to, like, the American people to get that guy who was the face of the thing. And, I mean, and his crimes are so appalling. I mean, but, you know, there was. I. Even if you. I mean, the blatant lying to Congress is I just straight up saying that we didn't fund gain of function research, which turned out to be an absolute lie. And under any reasonable standard, you know, he tried to wiggle out of it by saying, like, oh, he doesn't consider it gain of function. It was enhanced, meant. But not. It's like, by any reason. No, that, like, no judge would accept that as, like, no, I didn't perjure myself. I, you know, anyway. But then also, I mean, just the, you know, the blatant lying to the American people. I mean, like, even admitting to his lies, admitting that the stuff he was pushing came out of nowhere and wasn't based on science. But then, I mean, look again, when I say this as. As a libertarian, you know, like, I. There's, you know, there's the law as it is written down, but then there's, like, the greater law, the moral law of the universe, and, like, it may not technically be illegal, but to stand up there as, like, the expert virologist leading the COVID response and to knowingly lie through your teeth about an experimental, like, vaccine.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right, right.

[Dave Smith]

You know, telling people that you can't get Hurt by this. If you, if you take this, you can't get Covid. You can't transmit. Covid lying to them when he knew like damn well that none of the data that was in backed that up. I mean, like, you could argue, at absolute best, you could argue we didn't know at the time how effective the vaccine was going to be. But there was nothing in the trials that would have told you. They didn't even test for transmissibility. It's like transmittability. It's so he just clear crime, like criminal against humanity. But then, I mean, you know, I, I pick Fauci just because, you know, he was such a prominent face of the whole thing. But really, like, to me, all the lockdown governors are, are just, you know, should be in the Hague. Like, you don't. I don't care. I don't care if there's a. You don't get to appoint yourself many dictators out of nowhere based off, Based off no authority, not even citing any authority. I declared an emergency. So what, like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights don't exist anymore because you declared? Yeah, there was one, the greatest interview through all of the COVID days was Tucker Carlson in, like, maybe it was In June of 2020, I want to say May or June, I would say he got my awful Governor Murphy, who was one of the lockdown governors, and he got him on his show when he was still on Fox News. And he asked him at one point, so he had just like shut down a service at a, at like a synagogue, and he arrested. There were like some Jews who got arrested for, for going to synagogue during lockdown. And so Tucker Carlson's just like, well, you know, I'm, I'm reading the First Amendment here, and it says that, like, all Americans have the right to worship whatever religion and peacefully assemble. So, like, where do you get the authority to tell someone they can't do that? And Governor Murphy just goes. He goes, he goes, well, you know, I mean, I, you know, I wasn't thinking about the Constitution on this one. That's above my pay grade. Because his words were, that's above my pay grade. He goes, I'm following the science. And then of course, the science turned out to be completely wrong, and it wasn't science at all. But so anyway, like, to me, that's just like, oh, yeah, you okay? You're. You're a dictator. I don't know, you just appointed yourself a totalitarian dictator. That's. You're the worst criminal that there is. And so Gavin Newsom, he took it.

[Jillian Michaels]

To the next level because this guy went with the lockdowns for the longest period of time, and he engaged in tremendous hypocrisy. So, as we all know, the infamous incident at the French Laundry with no mask, I think it was a fundraiser right around the time that it was the holidays. And you weren't allowed to see family for the holidays. You weren't allowed to visit loved ones in the hospital. You weren't allowed to worship at church or synagogue or mosque or whatever it might be. But he's having a fundraiser at the most expensive restaurant in the western hemisphere, and he was the last to let kids back into school. And it wasn't because he was following the science. It's because he's on the take from the teachers union, and they didn't want to go back to school, period. End of story. Like, I also couldn't understand what would make Kamala choose Tim Walt, because this is a guy that let his city burn for three days in the middle of the pandemic, but then, I think, had law enforcement drive around and shoot people with beanbags that were on their porch. Wasn't that him, or am I getting that wrong?

[Dave Smith]

He did some weird. What? Such a. Such a weird guy. Yeah, you know, I do. I don't know. I mean, I. It's. I think that the. The. What seemed the most plausible to me, really, was that, you know, Kamala Harris was a deep. She's a deeply insecure person. Like, a very, very profoundly insecure person. This is where all of that stuff where, you know, the. The cackling and how she's certainly got. I mean, she's.

[Jillian Michaels]

Not to cause more trouble for both of us. Pills or something.

[Dave Smith]

Well, it could be pills or something.

[Jillian Michaels]

Something.

[Dave Smith]

She's. Look, there's something. Or it could just be, like, a real anxiety. I mean, it is possible, but she does. She's very guarded, and she's very guarded because she's insecure. And this. I mean, who. Who is running for president and turns down the Joe Rogan experience? I mean, it's just too crazy. Like, you got to be a really insecure person to be like, you're more like you're running for president, but yet you're more ruled by this feeling of how this could go wrong, rather than thinking to yourself, I'm gonna go get to make my case to this big audience. It shows, like, a real insecurity. And so, look, a lot of these guys are. And I'm not the first person to point this Out. But I do think there is something to the fact that, like, you know, all these people are egomaniacs. She's a particularly insecure egomaniac. You got Barack Obama. He picks Joe Biden as his VP because, well, that guy's not going to outshine Barack Obama now, is he? You pick Joe Biden because he's like this simpleton who's always, always kind of been a dummy. Like, even when you look back at old videos of Joe Biden now, don't be fooled by the fact that you're impressed that he's standing up and speaking, you know, because you're like, oh, he sure was a lot sharper then than he is now. But he was always kind of a dummy. Always, like, very impressed with himself, but never really saying anything that intelligent. And so then he picks Joe Biden just like that guy he'll never outshine. Barack Obama is black Jesus. Joe Biden is whoever, then that puts Joe Biden next in line. So what does Joe Biden got to do to pick someone? Right?

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

He's got to pick someone who can't possibly outshine him. And now we're down the idiocracy, like, loophole all the way to Kamala Harris, who has to pick somebody who can't outshine her, Especially someone so deeply insecure like that. So that I think, you know, they were saying, oh, she didn't like Shapiro because he's Jewish or something like that. I don't think that was it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do I feel like all.

[Dave Smith]

I don't think so.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't know, Dave. I do. See. Listen, I. I think Israel, Palestine is very. A very different conversation than anti Semitism and.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, I agree. I agree with that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think what I find so bizarre is that the people who love to scream anti Semite and point at Trump or point at Elon and call them hit Larian are the same ones who didn't want Josh Shapiro to be her vp. And I would argue he was the most qualified to do it, at least from what I can tell. I mean, if you could make a case for someone else. But they all kind of suck. To me, he's the only one that seems reasonable, moderate, common sense, did a good job in his state. Well liked. I. What would be another reason? And here's another question that I actually had for you, and I don't mean to go off piece. I'll circle back to it. But it's like, where does free speech cross into violent rhetoric? Because I'm sure you would make the case for this Guy Mahmoud Khalil and I had this fight with Anna Kasparian the other day. This is a guy who literally is part of a group that celebrated Yaya Sinwar. So these guys want Mahmoud Khalil not to be deported, but they also point to Elon and call him a Nazi. Like, I do think they didn't want Josh Shapiro in because he's Jewish. You don't think so?

[Dave Smith]

No, no, not at all. And I think, look, I think that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think there's.

[Dave Smith]

Well, look, let me. Stick with me, okay?

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm with you.

[Dave Smith]

I'm with you.

[Jillian Michaels]

If anybody's gonna change my mind, it'll be you.

[Dave Smith]

There's a. Especially when it comes to a lot of these things, man. And I guess this goes back to kind of me saying, you know, my perspective about, like, you know, Ron Paul talking about the perspective of the people in, you know, the countries that were bombing and the idea that governments, you know, the moral characterization of what a government does is. Is the same as when a group of people did, like, all that stuff, you know, look, I certainly. I don't like one preface before. Okay, Number one, if we're going to have a rule that is like, if you're a legal resident, you still can't speak about certain topics or that could be reason for you to be deported, then for. Fine, but that's got to be applied across the board to all people and across the board on all issues. Like, then you can't take a side because, you know, you could sit here and say, look, I oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza. I think the way a lot of people have protested it, many of them have devolved into hating Jews.

[Jillian Michaels]

With you to Yaya Sinwar, that's on their. Honestly, I can't.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, but Jillian, Dave, I. Jillian, A tribute to Benjamin Netanyahu would be just. Is disgusting, if I'm being honest. And are you really prepared to support people for that?

[Jillian Michaels]

I can't.

[Dave Smith]

I can't See, it killed a lot more people.

[Jillian Michaels]

A lot more by order men and shot them in the back. They killed babies. Like, I can't. It kills me. It's the grossest activity.

[Dave Smith]

Yes. Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. Right now in Gaza has been going on for the last 18 months. There are babies whose bones are being crushed slowly under rubble with no one coming. Coming to get them because there's no freaking excavators or bulldozers around. I mean, I get your point. October 7th was horrible, but there were 18 months later of the absolute destruction of one of the most densely populated areas in the world with a full blockade around the country so that people cannot leave and goods cannot get in and they're just being slaughtered. And so, look, I understand where in reaction against that, as America is funding this whole thing and arming this whole thing and making it possible, in reaction against that, there are excesses by the other side. And they probably cheer some things that you certainly wouldn't catch me cheering. But at the same time, I also see people. We got a sitting. Did you see the. What did he say? The other day, the Randy Fine guy in Florida tweeted. Someone tweeted, he's a sitting congressman. Someone tweeted a picture of one of the dead babies from over there. And he tweeted back, good, we need more. I mean, like, yo, we're talking about deporting these kids. You know, everyone's given these kids such a hard time who are out there protesting. And, like, I don't even know. I don't even know what's real anymore, because I don't. I'm not there. And I don't know if I trust all of the people who are telling me this. I do know that at Columbia, last Passover, they had a Seder, and the Jewish and Muslim students at the protest had a Jewish Seder together. So it didn't seem to me like those kids seem to hate Jews too much. But, like, I don't know. I don't know, maybe they do, maybe they don't. But, like, there's a war on. And the most important question right now is like, does this war absolutely need to happen? And that's the answer is no in this case. And whenever there's a war, it's like. Like, the most important question is always like, how do you minimize the human suffering here? Like, is as every other, you know, possibility been exhausted. Is there anything else you could do? And if you know anything about this topic, you realize, oh, yeah, there's like 25 other paths that could be attempted right now. And in fact, the phase one of the ceasefire which Israel just broke, they got something like 20 hostages back out of negotiating for them. They could stop doing this and negotiate for the rest of them, but they don't want to. And they also. Whatever. They also want to draw us into a wider conflict, which is. They've been quite open about.

[Jillian Michaels]

I get. I'm starting to learn about that.

[Dave Smith]

That's the most important thing. And now you're telling me, listen, I support mass deportations. I support every illegal immigrant having to leave. If you, you don't have a right to be here if you came here illegally. That's really sad. It's not right. But you're talking about deporting legal residents because they're critical of a policy of a foreign government. I mean, that's just like.

[Jillian Michaels]

It wouldn't be that.

[Dave Smith]

You're crossing a line.

[Jillian Michaels]

Group. I know that's what Anna said. And I.

[Dave Smith]

What's a terror group? What's a terror group? You support. If you support the US Government, you're supporting a terror group. Every pro military right winger in this country supports a terror group. The United States of America's military destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen in the last 20 years. You know what I'm saying? Like, we, we remove ourselves so much from, like, the government crime and. Because it's like a non government. Hamas, which, by the way, is a non government, because they're not allowed to be a government and have never been.

[Jillian Michaels]

Allowed to have their own government committing, like, unthinkably horrible.

[Dave Smith]

I'm not arguing. I'm not arguing they're good. I'm not arguing they're good. They're horrible. Yes, they, they. You are absolutely right. They commit. Like.

[Jillian Michaels]

Between that and I. Iraq, I, I do understand what you're saying, but it's like, mother.

[Dave Smith]

Well, it's not. Look, but forget the moral equivalence. Like, I'm not saying these two things are the same. Like, no, there are differences. There is a level of primitive barbarity to what Hamas does that is not the same with surgical strikes. But if it's your kid on the other end of that strike, you know, the same thing happened to you that human suffering is. If the end result is this level of human suffering, those are real human beings on the other side of that. So I'm not saying, like, they're equivalent. I'm not saying they're the same. In fact, it's like, no, like, one of the major characteristics is that the Israeli and US side is like 100,000 times more powerful than the other one. And so we don't. We don't. We would never even think to act in these naked, barbaric ways because we got a drone operator from 4,000 miles away who will take your wedding out right now. But you drop a drone bomb on a wedding, as Obama did in Yemen, and you bombed a wedding. I mean, gee, like, okay, yes, I understand. It doesn't trigger the same thing as a bunch of, like, savage men running in and, like, grabbing the women and like, okay, I get that. I'm not defending that, obviously, it's horrific, but, like, still blew Obama on a wedding full of people. There's little kids whose legs are blown off and there's, you know, it's like it's. And, and particularly there does seem to me to be like, a moral issue with doing it to people in, in extreme poverty. I mean, doing it to people already when it's like that, you know, especially in the case of Gaza where there's, there's this, this blockade. I mean, the finance minister just a couple of weeks ago said not one ounce of grain will get in. And from all the interviews of the doctors who have been over there, I.

[Jillian Michaels]

Didn'T know about that part. And then I, and then I tried to get the answer to it and, well, Hamas will take the aid if, if we let it in. But then there's polio vaccines that you're not letting in, and it's like, well, Moss is not going to take polio vaccines. But I, I could also make the argument. I, I can't. I, I've. The argument has been made that you make people far more intelligent than me on the subject matter because I, I really am not intelligent at all on the subject matter except to say, like, if Hamas laid down their guns and they returned the hostages, right, what would happen? Okay, there'd be peace. But if Israel laid down their guns from the river to the sea, dead Jews, like, that's the part that it's like. And I'm certainly no match. I, I just, you know, listen to your points of view and learn from your perspectives, because I, this one is just such a loser of a topic. You know, you can't win because it's like, well, it's disgusting across the board. You can't win. There's no.

[Dave Smith]

Well, I would just, look, I would just say that it's like, you know, okay, first of all, like, if America laid down all of its guns and let Saddam Hussein invade America and take over the country, that probably would have been worse than if the Iraqis had laid down all of their guns and just let the Americans take over their country. But that's not really the relevant question about should we have invaded Iraq in 2003 or not? The question is, like, is this a justified war? Is this, Are you being lied into this? This going to be a disaster? Will anything good come of this? Are you, Are you morally justified in killing all of these innocent people? And so, like, you know, first off, I would say that, yeah, I would not suggest Israel lay down all their arms tomorrow and Open their borders. That would be a bad move, like, but that's also not on the table. That's never going to happen. So I don't see how relevant it is. And you know, honestly, look, again, I'm not trying to blame any group of people for old crimes that their government committed. You know, my government's committed a ton of old crimes and I don't hold the American people responsible for that. I'm also not particularly interested in rectifying them. We're not giving the land back to the Native Americans, like, as that's. This is the way of the world and you get to a certain point where there's a statute of limitations, you got to move on. But that being said, the found. Listen, the fact is, the bottom line is that. The fact is that there were. There was always a very small Jewish population living in the land of Palestine, what was called Palestine at the time, going back thousands of years, a bunch of Eastern European Jews decided that because they were being so persecuted in Europe, they needed to have their own homeland. And this started in the late 1800s. And these Zionists, they started this movement and they pulled it off some. It's like unbelievable. They were like a ragtag operation when they started. And they like create and they put it together and they got this international movement, they got international financing behind them, they got the British Empire behind them. And then ultimately in. In for all the pogroms that, that went on for, for hundreds of years before World War I. It wasn't in World War I they got the British to back their, their project. And then it wasn't World War II. Something came along that blew away all of the pogroms in all of history, which was the Holocaust. And I mean, so in this environment, Post World War II, this group of Zionists, like, had so much wind in their back, like, yes, they were proven correct. They were telling all these Jews, you can't make a home in Europe. Things may seem good now, but they're going to turn on you at some point. And then they had the rise of Adolf Hitler. And this Zionist movement really got a big burst of energy in it. And they went and they created their state in, in what is today Israel. And look, I'm not even trying to be too judgmental here. This was an environment where World War II just happened. 60 million people have been killed. The Holocaust just happened specifically to the Jewish people. The good guys in the war are firebombing Tokyo and dropping nuclear weapons and bombings, bombing cities when they know the men are out at War and just bombing the women and children in the state. You know, like, this is on all sides. World War II is like, you know, we. We wrote all these international rules after World War II to be like, hey, we can never do this again. Because this was like, just, you know, too insane. And then, so you're talking two years after that, in the end of 1947, when the UN partition recommendation comes, and these guys were like, okay, we're going to kick some people off of their land and make our own little state here. And that's. Listen, this happened in context. All these governments committed crimes.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was going to ask you, because my understanding, which as mentioned is very limited, is that nobody wanted the Jews. Everybody hated the Jews. So then it was like, I don't want to take them. Well, I'm not going to take them. I'm not. Anyway, long story short, nobody takes them. So they get thrown out of all these different countries because nobody wants them. Everybody's anti Semitic. And. And Britain had already stolen this land in Palestine. It was like, well, it's ours. We took it, so we're going to give it to you.

[Dave Smith]

It wasn't even theirs yet. It wasn't even theirs yet. They were. It was controlled by the Ottoman Empire when they gave it to the Jews. But they were. They, you know, they were trying to take out the Ottoman Empire, which ultimately they did. So they. Then. They ultimately took control of it after World War I when the Ottoman Empire fell. And then they had what was known as a League of nations mandate, and Britain. So Britain occupied Palestine. And essentially they were the government from, I guess, the end of World War I until 1947. And so they. So on that entire time. Now, what they. What they said in 1917 in the Balfour Declaration was that, like, the. The king approves the Jews creating a homeland in Palestine. So, like, it had the blessing of the king. And so that, you know, like this gave international legitimacy to the movement at the time. But regardless of any of that, look, the creation of the state of Israel resulted in somewhere between 700 and 800,000 Palestinians who had been living in this land for hundreds of years being either forcibly removed from their homes or fleeing and never allowed to return. And that's what created the refugee problem to begin with. And then there was. There was always a problem of fighting back and the terrorism and counterterrorism, which is kind of just more terrorism and all of this. And then in 1967, they fought Israel, launched a preemptive war against Egypt, and then Jordan joined in the war so they fought a war on two fronts, and Israel won. And then Israel took control of Gaza and the west bank, and they made themselves the government of all of it. But there were millions of Palestinians living there, and Israel's controlled the thing ever since. They've just controlled it ever since. And so you're just at a certain point in time, you know, and people can argue and caveat with this. Well, there was a disengagement in 2005. Or says, no, there wasn't. They kept a complete perimeter around the place. They controlled the water, the sea, space, the airspace. They controlled everything about the area. And, you know, if you. I think that if you do that, it's going to come with the price tag of people developing a burning hatred for you. And it's. Listen, I'm not saying anything about the Israeli government that I wouldn't say about my own government. Just like, they've really mistreated some people and had some really, really bad foreign policy decisions. But, you know, anyway, I kind of lost track of where the point I.

[Jillian Michaels]

Was making what you're saying, because I, I admit.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, oh, but okay, I'm sorry. So, I'm sorry. I just, I literally just remembered it right now. But just. And I'll be, I'll be quick with this.

[Jillian Michaels]

Listen, I got all the time in the world. You. You're like, well, 90 minutes. I was like, okay, well, I'll just say.

[Dave Smith]

I'll just say. So when. When people say if Hamas put down their weapons and gave up all the hostages, there'd be peace, it's like, define peace. I mean, what, what it seems to be is that like the, There used to be this illusion that Israel was going to give the Palestinians a state. This was all the way since literally the 70s. The Israel, they started occupying them in 1967. And as of the 70s, the first Camp David summit, they're going, yeah, yeah, we'll give them a two state. We just have to work toward it. We have to work toward it. The Oslo process in the 90s was supposed to end in the negotiation of a Palestinian state.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, I, I've always been under the impression that the Jews are here, let's negotiate. And Arafat keeps. I don't actually know actually a lot.

[Dave Smith]

So I got a lot more complicated. It's a lot more complicated than I know. Truly.

[Jillian Michaels]

Very, very.

[Dave Smith]

Certainly mistakes. There were certainly mistakes made. But the point is that all the way cut to 2025, and the Likud Party's man, Benjamin Netanyahu, is the longest serving prime minister in history who's clearly just gone. No, no, screw that. We're never giving the Palestinians a state. So it's not like, oh, if you put down your guns and return the hostages, you're. You have peace, you have subjugation for eternity. That is the. The perceived alternative to this, and perhaps correctly. And so, you know, it's just a little bit more complicated than saying, if Israel put down their guns, they die. If. If the Palestinians put down their guns, everyone would be happy. You know, it's like, Israel shouldn't put down their guns. That's a good. Keep your guns. You don't have to shoot them so aggressively, but keep your guns, you know, and. And let. Let the Palestinians have their autonomy.

[Jillian Michaels]

I promised I would let you go at 90 minutes, but I have a few questions I just want to have some fun with real quick.

[Dave Smith]

Sure, sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. In the event of apocalypse, bullets are bitcoin.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, bullets. I mean, listen, I love bitcoin. I love bitcoin, but you're talking about the apocalypse here. In the apocalypse. Anything. Bill Burr had an old, old joke about this, but it was something. It was great. It was something like. He goes, if you don't have guns in the apocalypse, no matter what else you have, you're just. You're just getting a lot of stuff together for some other dude, you know, Like. Like, even if you have land and food and, like, everything you think you would need, you're like, yeah, until someone else just has a gun. And now it's all there. So apocalypse time.

[Jillian Michaels]

You always go, okay, who would you not let babysit your kids? Gavin Newsom, Bill Gates, or Lindsey Graham?

[Dave Smith]

I've. This is the truth, okay? I have little kids. My daughter's 6 and my son's 3. Nobody's ever babysat my kids. I've literally. They've been with their. I mean, if grandmas and grandpa counts, they've done my. I got, like, my sister and my brother, my wife's brother, but I've never had anyone. I just would never do that. I'm too neurotic of a parent. I'm just like, wait, what are you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Millennial OR Gen X?

[Dave Smith]

1983? So I think millennial.

[Jillian Michaels]

Millennial. That's like a true Gen X position, because you barely survived the 70s and the early 80s. And so a lot of us are like, no, the babysitter's boyfriend is not coming over.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I've heard ours. Oh, no, I would never. But, you know, on that list, so really, I mean, I'd have my concerns about all of them, but Lindsey Graham is the one that jumps out at me. Got it. Like, definitely not that guy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Got it. Favorite book that changed your life?

[Dave Smith]

Well, I would. I mean, there was the Ron Paul Revolution was the first book I read of his. So in that story there that was. I mean, that one would probably be the one I picked. And then I get like, like honorable mention to Anatomy of the State by Murray Rothbard. The Closing of the American Mind by Alan Bloom I thought was like a phenomenal book that really changed the way I looked at a lot of things and. Yeah. And then everything, everything that Murray Rothbard ever wrote, everything Ron Paul ever wrote. All those guys.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, two more. Would you rather debate Rachel Maddow or Ben Shapiro? And why?

[Dave Smith]

Oh, Ben Shapiro. No question. Because, Because Ben Shapiro, you know, because it's an interesting debate and, and me and Ben Shapiro in a lot of ways compete. I mean, not completely, but like, we compete over talking to like a similar audience in a way. And so the, the, the issues that we have is something that like, I think ought to be settled. It's like, you know, the kind of maga, you know, libertarian, right winger view of what foreign policy should be or something like that. Rachel Maddow is like, first of all, I don't even think anyone watches Rachel Maddow anymore. And her views, at least to me, her views have been totally discredited. Like, all this stuff is, you know, it'd be, it'd be easier to dunk on Rachel.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was gonna say I choose Maddo because I know I could win that one. That would be my job.

[Dave Smith]

Well, yes, that's what. Yes, Ben Shapiro is a much tough, a much tougher debate and, and, but just a more relevant one and a more interesting one to me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would accept a Rachel Maddow debate if that was offered to me. I'd be quite. That'd be. And I'd be, I'd be pretty excited.

[Jillian Michaels]

To buy tickets to that. I want front row. All right, last question. If you were arrested tomorrow, what would it be for?

[Dave Smith]

Man? Oh, that's an interesting question. Well, I mean, probably some of this, like the stuff I say, I guess I don't like, you know, I. The most likely candidate to me would seem to be like, oh, that, that means the government finally cracked down on what you're allowed to criticize them for. Like really crackdown and was arresting people. People. Now, other than that maybe, like, if it's not that, maybe getting in A fight. I guess under the right circumstances, if I kind of felt like I had to, I could get in a fistfight. Still, I really hope to never get another fist fight in my life, but I don't really do anything else. I don't think that's. That's illegal these days.

[Jillian Michaels]

Another fist fight? What was the. What was the last fist fight?

[Dave Smith]

Oh, that's. No, it's been a while. Like maybe. Maybe 10 years ago or something like that. But I said that's not that long ago. I guess it's not that long ago. Well, you know, I was. I was a mess before my wife got me together. I was. I was a bit of a mess, but.

[Jillian Michaels]

Did you win this?

[Dave Smith]

Yeah. I hope to never do that again. Huh.

[Jillian Michaels]

Did you win that fist fight?

[Dave Smith]

I did win the last one. Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

I was gonna say. You better say yes or I. I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

I've taken some Ls in my day, but I did win that last one. Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

Dave Smith, you are fantastic. Where can we get more?

[Dave Smith]

Oh, you know, part of the problem is, is my podcast and comic, Dave Smith, if you want to come see me do standup on the road, that's the. The website for that. And thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Julian, I loved having you on my show and I really enjoyed doing. Doing yours as well.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you. You're every bit is awesome when I get you for 90 minutes, then when I get you for two. Thank you.