How Negligence and Corruption Fueled California's Wildfires

Summary

Podcast Summary: Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels
Episode: How Negligence and Corruption Fueled California's Wildfires
Release Date: January 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels," host Jillian Michaels delves deep into the catastrophic wildfires ravaging Los Angeles, California. Joined by two esteemed journalists, Michael Schellenberger and Anna Kasparian, the discussion unpacks the multifaceted causes behind the wildfires, highlighting issues of negligence, corruption, and systemic failures within local and state governments.

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Government Failures and Negligence

The conversation begins by addressing the critical mismanagement of resources that exacerbated the wildfire crisis. Jillian Michaels outlines a "deadly cocktail" of forestry mismanagement, water misallocation, and political shortcomings that have collectively fueled the fires.

• Reservoir Mismanagement: One of the focal points is the unexplained draining of reservoirs during fire season, which led to dry hydrants and hampered firefighting efforts. Jillian states, "Reservoirs were inexplicably drained during fire season. Hydrants ran dry" (02:08).

• Budget Cuts: Significant reductions in firefighting budgets are criticized, with Anna Kasparian highlighting that Mayor Karen Bass cut the operational fire budget by "$17.8 million," crippling essential services necessary for effective fire response (02:35).

• Lack of Preparedness: Michael Schellenberger emphasizes the absence of proactive measures, stating, "The national weather Service on January 2 issued an extreme fire warning... then Mayor Karen Bass leaves the country" (50:02).

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Corruption and Influence

The episode delves into the pervasive corruption influencing California's wildfire management. Anna Kasparian sheds light on the murky relationship between political leaders and corporate donors.

• Corporate Bribery: Anna discusses how influential families, like the Resnicks, have leveraged campaign contributions to gain control over critical resources such as water supplies, stating, "The Resnicks... were bribed legally by the Resnicks and was a big supporter of having them control our water supply" (10:13).

• Vetoed Legislation: The vetoing of Bill AB 2330 by Governor Gavin Newsom is scrutinized. Jillian Michaels questions, "Why did Gavin Newsom veto a bill that passed without opposition, reflecting a need for streamlined wildfire preparedness?" (13:08).

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Impact of Homelessness and Public Safety

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how California's homelessness crisis has directly contributed to the wildfire disaster.

• Ignition Sources: Anna Kasparian points out that a substantial number of fires are ignited by homeless individuals, many of whom suffer from severe mental illnesses. She states, "Half of all fires that the Los Angeles fire departments respond to are to the homeless" (57:28).

• Public Safety Neglect: The lack of adequate shelter and support systems for the homeless population is highlighted as a critical oversight. Anna asserts, "We need to find a better solution than just letting severely mentally ill people on the streets to do whatever they damn well please" (32:35).

• Looting During Fires: The episode also touches on allegations that gangs are exploiting the chaos of wildfires to loot affluent neighborhoods. Jillian Michaels recounts, "There are groups of guys breaking into homes in full ski masks... it's just madness" (33:14).

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Insurance and Financial Implications

The financial fallout from the wildfires is another critical issue explored in the episode.

• Insurance Withdrawal: Jillian Michaels raises concerns about insurance companies withdrawing from California, leaving many residents uninsured. She states, "Insurance companies are just free to drop people" (72:08).

• California Fair Plan: The limitations of the California Fair Plan are discussed, with Jillian questioning its effectiveness in providing adequate coverage for wildfire-related damages (73:30).

• Financial Devastation: Anna Kasparian explains the dire consequences for residents, noting, "Thousands of people are not insured or are underinsured, and this is going to financially devastate their entire lives" (73:30).

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Climate Change vs. Governance

While acknowledging the impact of climate change, both guests emphasize that governance failures are the primary drivers of the wildfire crisis.

• Climate Impact: Michael Schellenberger concedes, "The world is getting warmer... wet seasons have changed," but maintains that "the main event is how we handle our environment, how we manage our environment" (67:08).

• Governance Focus: Both Michael and Anna argue that poor governance, rather than climate change alone, has led to inadequate preparedness and response, leading to the current disaster.

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Possible Solutions and Way Forward

Towards the end of the episode, the guests propose actionable solutions to prevent future wildfires.

• Consolidation of Fire Departments: Michael Schellenberger suggests consolidating the 88 cities within Los Angeles County under a single fire department to streamline response efforts (57:28).

• Infrastructure Investment: Investing in critical infrastructure, such as rebuilding and expanding reservoirs, is deemed essential. Anna highlights the failure to construct new reservoirs despite voter approval, attributing it to excessive environmental regulations imposed by corporate interests (14:54).

• Political Accountability: Both guests stress the need for voters to hold Democratic politicians accountable for their failures, urging a move away from partisan loyalties to prioritize effective governance (47:00).

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Notable Quotes

• Anna Kasparian:
  "No one in California, no one in Southern California was surprised or shocked by the high-speed winds that we were hit with..." (03:10)
  "We need to move past the partisan brain rot and hold our parties accountable when they f up." (47:00)

• Michael Schellenberger:
  "Politicians in California are just focused on themselves... they're obsessed with the next job." (54:52)
  "This is a crisis of governance. Everything's breaking down because your leaders are not actually governing in the way they need to be." (62:23)

• Jillian Michaels:
  "We have dozens of fire trucks that are out of commission... How is there no plan?" (58:36)
  "If you were running a business, the board would fire them. And I simply cannot understand..." (18:36)

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Conclusion

This episode of "Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels" offers a scathing examination of the systemic failures and corruption that have allowed wildfires to devastate California. Through incisive dialogue with Michael Schellenberger and Anna Kasparian, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the intricate web of negligence, political maneuvering, and inadequate infrastructure that have culminated in one of the state's most severe environmental crises. The guests advocate for political accountability, infrastructure investment, and systemic reforms as essential steps toward preventing future disasters and ensuring the safety and well-being of California's residents.

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Timestamp Reference:

• All timestamps correspond to the format [MM:SS] within the transcript provided.

Transcript

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[Michael Schellenberger]

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[Jillian Michaels]

Today we're unpacking the latest wildfire catastrophe in Los Angeles. A deadly cocktail of forestry mismanagement, water misprioritization, and political failures at the highest levels.

[Anna Kasparian]

In order for me to fill the.

[Jillian Michaels]

Tanks, I had to ask the fire.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Department to stop fighting the fire.

[Anna Kasparian]

And that's a very tough operational decision to make.

[Jillian Michaels]

Reservoirs were inexplicably drained during fire season. Hydrants ran dry. Mismanaged evacuation orders led to gridlock, forcing terrified residents to flee on foot while meter maids continued writing parking tickets just miles away. Fire department budgets were slashed and Mayor Karen Bass focused on optics as critical infrastructure collapsed.

[Anna Kasparian]

This is a time for vigilance and action, not speculation.

[Jillian Michaels]

Negligence? Corruption? It's time to find out. Joining me today are two powerhouse journalists who are unflinching in their pursuit of the truth. Michael Schillenberger, bestselling author and investigative journalist, has spent decades exposing the environmental and governmental missteps that turn natural challenges into human catastrophes.

[Michael Schellenberger]

I've lived in a bunch of authoritarian countries. I've visited a lot of authoritarian countries. Never thought this kind of thing would be going on here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Anna Kasparian, co host of the Young Turks, is a female fearless commentator who's made her mark by calling out corruption and demanding accountability.

[Anna Kasparian]

Why did you say all the reservoirs were full? And then when you're hit with the facts of one of the major reservoirs being completely empty, well, you know, that's why I'm calling for investigations. And you know that's not a state reservoir. I'm gonna pass the buck. I'm gonna pass the buck. Please don't blame me. It's not my fault. Even though I am the governor of.

[Jillian Michaels]

This state, Together we're tearing apart the political and civilization systemic failures that turn preventable fires into a catastrophic inferno.

[Michael Schellenberger]

All 29 fire departments in our county are not prepared for this type of widespread disaster.

[Jillian Michaels]

This is about more than Los Angeles. This is a warning for every community grappling with leadership unfit to manage a crisis. Let's dig in. Keeping it Real with Jillian Michaels. Hi, how are you?

[Anna Kasparian]

I'm hanging in there. I mean, no one's really in the clear until Wednesday's over, so we'll see. But I got evacuated that we were safe to come back, and I'm just, I'm so angry. But I'm hoping that what's happening is going to wake people up to how inept our local government is.

[Jillian Michaels]

I literally just said that, Anna. I said, if anything good comes out of this, it's that there's new leadership in California. And God willing, Gavin Newsom doesn't win in 2028 because that would be an epic catastrophe. And when I reached out to you, you said to me, I knew this was gonna happen. I told everyone this was going to happen. So I wanna start right there because you have been doing that. What did you know? What were you saying? Where we now go?

[Anna Kasparian]

Well, what I've noticed with local government in California is just how little these politicians care about us. I mean, they show us every day following 2020. I mean, things have been so incredibly dysfunctional. To be fair, things had been dysfunctional in the state of California for a while, but it became more pronounced in 2020, and things have only devolved since since then. So let me just be clear in stating that no one in California, no one in Southern California was surprised or shocked by the high speed winds that we were hit with next last week. We knew about it a week prior. We knew that those high Santa Ana winds were very likely going to create a just a situation in which a fire would get out of control. Right. And so fires start for a multitude of reasons. We have aging power lines and infrastructure here that has sparked fires in the past. We have dry conditions, okay? Even though we had record rain last year and the year before that, this year we haven't had rain yet. So there are dry conditions. So you have the Santa Ana winds, the dry conditions, and you also have this aging electrical infrastructure that could spark a fire. And so what we needed more than anything was to be prepared for a worst case scenario. We needed to ensure that all of our reservoirs were filled. We're now learning that one of them, the Santa Ynez reservoir that carries 117 million gallons of water, was emptied nearly a year ago for minor repairs. That reservoir should have been filled in the lead up to the Santa Ana winds. But what makes it clear to me that our mayor, Karen Bass, underestimated the fire weather is that she didn't do that. She didn't prepare and in fact felt the need to go watch another sovereign country's president get inaugurated. That doesn't benefit the people of Los Angeles. I don't understand why Angelenos funded that trip to begin with, but it gives you a sense of what these local politicians really care about, and it's themselves, their own political careers. And it disgusts me. Gavin Newsom, in every single interview I've seen him do, has passed the buck, even though he is the governor of this state. He is pathetic. He's a snake. He's like the slimiest Democratic politician, certainly on a local level. But what we have seen is mismanagement of epic proportions. And the mere existence, and it is real, the existence of climate change should not be utilized as a talking point in order to pass the buck, in order to deflect blame, in order to refuse to take any personal responsibility for how poorly this state has been governed for several years now. I am so disgusted with these people. I mean, Newsom is the governor. He's the top dog in California.

[Jillian Michaels]

You know, you blew the whistle on the PG and E scandal that I'm not hearing anything about right now. And I can't articulate the way that you do. And I learned about it, as mentioned, from you. So I was hoping that you could talk a little bit about that. You have a brilliant 20 minute video that I posted on X the other day. But can you encapsulate what happened there? And what role Newsom played in letting PG and E off the hook?

[Anna Kasparian]

Well, essentially what he did was bail out PG and E even though PG and essentially started the fires in Paradise, California.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Anna Kasparian]

They couldn't be bothered to replace a $10 hook that was nearly 100 years old and that hook was holding the power lines up. So just think about that. These hooks are basically falling apart. Power lines are falling. We have dry conditions in California. And so it's a tinderbox. We live in a tinderbox right now. I mean, Newsom, of course, also can't be bothered to clear the dry brush. Had cut funding for that anyway. But putting that aside, after the fires happened in Paradise, California, and so many people lost their homes, lost everything they had worked for, Newsom comes in because PGE is one of his major donors and essentially bails them out and structures a settlement with the individuals who lost their homes in such a way that it's essentially tied to the value of the shares for the stock of PG and E. And so it created this situation in which the very people who lost everything because of the greed of this utility company now have to root for this utility company to maximize their profits if they are to get any money as part of their settlement. And there was a lot more to that story. You know, it is a 20 minute video. Please do it.

[Jillian Michaels]

I will learn more in the comments below as well.

[Anna Kasparian]

But it shows you that the Democratic Party, what I have noticed is that they engage in quite a bit of projection because they do love to point fingers at the inept governance of Republicans. The corruption that you see among the Republican Party, I mean, a good example of that is what happened in Texas when the privatized energy grid in Texas went out in the middle of a disastrous winter storm and hundreds of people died as a result of that. That was also the crisis in which Senator Ted Cruz was caught going to Cancun for vacation.

[Jillian Michaels]

I remember.

[Anna Kasparian]

And Democrats had no problem calling him out for that. But for some reason, they are providing cover for Karen Bass, the mayor of Los Angeles, leaving us behind in order to go see another country's president get inaugurated. So if you have any fire that you're directing toward Republicans for their inept governance, I am not gonna take anyone seriously if they're unwilling to apply that same logic, that same reasoning toward Democratic lawmakers, Democratic politicians who have also failed the people who they're supposed to be representing. These people do not care about us. And at this point, there needs to be a reckoning within the Democratic Party in regard to Their failures in regard to the fact that they engage in the same behavior, they criticize their political opponents of. People lost everything. Okay. There's a coach in Altadena, California. He's known as Coach Walt, and he's lived in Altadena his entire life. He's known in the community because he spends a lot of time helping others. He lost everything. And just watching that man in tears, watching him attempt to be optimistic despite everything that's happening around us right now is inspiring, but also incredibly heartbreaking. Because, look, I spoke to someone who left California after 2020, and she told me the reason why she decided to leave is because she realized if we were in crisis, no one was coming. That's how Californians feel right now. That's how Angelenos feel right now. And when you have a situation in which insurance companies are just free to drop people, homeowners, you know, a few months prior to these wildfires, they get away with murder. The electric utility companies get away with murder. Even if they're the ones who spark these fires, even if they're the ones who cause people their lives. You see all this stuff happening. You can't blame Republicans for that. In a state that is completely dominated and controlled by one party, and that's the Democratic Party, pointing to climate change isn't good enough for me. Climate change is real. I take it seriously. But there was a lot of mismanagement in the lead up to these fires, and the fact that they're refusing to take responsibility for that is infuriating.

[Jillian Michaels]

I would go so far as to double down on climate change. I know nothing about it, but just to say, okay, absolutely, then you should be that much more prepared. And I want to point to a bill that I recently learned about. I pulled it up here. Ready for this one, Anna, have you heard about this? So this was Bill AB 2330, and it passed through both the assembly and the Senate of the state without opposition. It reflected a broad consensus on the need for streamlined wildfire preparedness measures. Newsom vetoed it despite legislative approval, and he expressed concerns over increased ongoing costs. I ask you, what? Wtf? Because how much is it going to cost? Like, Anna, what am I missing? And what I also don't understand is why haven't we buried the power lines? Now, I know this costs a ton of money. I know it would take years, but it hasn't even begun. What happened with Proposition 1, where in 2014, Californians voted to build new reservoirs, or they allotted, like, $2.7 billion to go towards this not one has been built. What is happening? Do you have any thoughts on this? Because I don't understand. I actually don't understand what's happening. Why.

[Anna Kasparian]

So I haven't looked into Newsom's reasons for why he vetoed that bill, and I'll look into that. But I do want to comment on the proposition you're referring to and how Californians overwhelmingly wanted to build more reservoirs. So that passed in 2014.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Anna Kasparian]

And we have yet to build a single reservoir since the last reservoir, the latest reservoir that's been built in the state of California was built in the year 2000, 25 years ago. We have a very real problem in this state where, honestly, environmental regulations are being utilized as a way to hinder new construction. It's definitely impacted the housing market, and it's impacting our ability to build critical infrastructure like the reservoirs that voters and the state legislature overwhelmingly claims they want to build. If you want to build these things, you have to do away with some of this red tape. Now, a lot of these environmental laws are not really about the environment. They're really about Californians who do not want to build more homes, for instance, because they're trying to protect the value of their home. But listen, homeboys and homegirls, like you want to protect the value of your home, you're not going to be able to do that when the state is ravaged by wildfires that firefighters are unable to effectively fight back against because of the lack of reservoirs. So you look at the Pacific Palisade, there's been a lot of BS from the Democratic Party in order to defend their behavior here. But the fact of the matter is, the way the pressure in the fire hydrants work is wholly dependent on the volume of water in the reservoirs. The fact that a 117 million gallon reservoir was empty certainly exacerbated the issues that the firefighters were dealing with. The fact that Mayor Karen Bass cut the fire budget, the operational portion of the fire budget, to the tune of $17.8 million was a problem for all the Democrats coming at me and saying, no, no, she actually raised the fire budget. No, she didn't. She increased the salaries of the existing firefighters. She cut the operational fire budget, which is a different pot of money. And that operational fire budget was incredibly important in hiring civilian employees who did important things, you know, like the mechanics who would fix the fire trucks.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Anna Kasparian]

We have dozens of fire trucks that are out of commission as we speak because they don't have the workers to fix them. They don't have the funding to fix them. And I'm sorry, I am not gonna buy for a second that we have a revenue problem in the state of California. We do not. We are the highest tax state. We. We. We pay incredibly high sales taxes. Certainly in LA county, we pay incredibly high state taxes.

[Jillian Michaels]

The highest.

[Anna Kasparian]

Okay, and so explain to me how it is that this state can squander $24 billion on nonprofits for homeless services. Audits indicate that that money is unaccounted for. Homelessness has exploded in this state. We keep pouring tens of billions of dollars in more and more, more, more, more for homeless services. A problem that just keeps getting worse. Why are we diverting funds to these nonprofits that are stealing from us when this taxpayer money should be utilized to build up our infrastructure, make us more resilient in response to wildfires? I mean, there's so much waste, so much graft, so much corruption in this state. And again, right now, the Democratic Party is scrambling because they can't blame the Republicans for this. They control the state. The buck stops with them.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have a question about Democrat, Republican. To be honest with you, I don't really care. When I look at Newsom or I look at Bass, they're bad operators. I look at California like a business. Isn't it like the fourth or fifth largest economy? I can't say the world. That simply makes no sense to me. But I hear it's a massive economy on a global scale. Obviously, with that said, they're bad operators. I don't care if they're Republican or Democrat. If they were running your company, the board would fire them. And I simply cannot understand how much of this is negligence, how much of it is incompetence, and how much of it is intentional. And I'm not trying to get into these deep conspiracy theories of land reclaiming, although I do have a question for you about. That was something that surfaced this morning with Newsom. But do you think. It's just. I got this campaign contribution from PG&E and I got another example of that with the Resnick family. And I don't know if you're familiar with this one, but this is a family that controls. Like, what is it? I have the exact numbers here. 120 billion gallons of water. Okay? Each year of California's water, 120 billion gallons. Two thirds of that. So 80 billion is dedicated to growing shelled nuts, which are 1200. I'm sorry, 1,200 gallons of water per pound. In other words, 1.1 gallons per almond. Okay? Now, these guys. How have they done it. How have they pulled it off? Campaign contributions to Feinstein, Pelosi, Gavin Newsom. So how much of this do you think is just looking the other way because you're on the take or utter negligence and incompetence?

[Anna Kasparian]

I think it's a mix of both, to be honest with you. I think that there's a lot of narcissism and selfishness being demonstrated as we speak by these politicians. I mean, look, I get that people don't think that it would make that much of a difference if Karen bass was here 100% of the time in the lead up to the fires and hadn't gone to Ghana. I disagree. I think her trip to Ghana gives you a sense of what her priorities are. So there's that narcissism. There's certainly corruption. I mean, Dianne Feinstein is the one who was bribed legally by the Resnicks and was a big supporter of having them control our water supply to the extent that they control our water supply. And so big business rules us corporate. We are under corporate rule as a result of how our political system is now structured, as a result of how legalized bribery is now baked in to our political system, both on a local level and on a national level. And so what you will notice if you just take a step back and look at what has happened to the two political parties over the last several decades is with the Supreme Court loosening up our campaign finance laws and allowing for this legalized bribery to be part of our system, the Democratic Party, which used to be the party of the working class, has become more and more and more corporate. And as they've become more corporate and as they've abandoned blue collar working class Americans, well, they need a way to differentiate themselves from the Republican Party. So what have they leaned into? Culture wars. Okay. The party of. I mean, it is the politics of division, really. Right. Because everything they focus on is really, like, rooted in this, like, identitarian mindset, which has actually fragmented, in my opinion, the Democratic voting base. But more importantly, it has kind of hid the ball for most voters. And that ball is corruption. They don't want to talk about the issues that impact the working class because the policies that would alleviate the frustrations of the working class do not agree with what the donor class wants. The donor class is funding these politicians, and what they want conflicts with what Democratic voters want. And unfortunately, we have corporate media that provides cover for these corporate Democrats. And it's so incredibly frustrating when you hear ordinary people simply regurgitate these pathetic excuses on behalf of the Democratic Party. They have failed us. They have failed us on a local level and on a national level. And what's amazing to me is even after the results of the last presidential election, where Donald Trump was the first Republican since the year 2004 to win the popular vote, Democrats are still putting their head in the sand, refused to take responsibility for their failures, refused to accept that abandoning the working class wasn't just a bad look, it was political suicide for them. And what we're seeing in California right now is further political suicide.

[Jillian Michaels]

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And it's Altadena. I mean, they're frigging everywhere. That said, do you think. Cuz there are rumors and again, this is pure conjecture, I don't know. But there are rumors that you've got gangs who are starting these fires in order to loot. And if this is in fact true, this kind of comes back to how lenient California has been with regard to cracking down on crime. And the second part, I'll say second piece of this is Newsom was saying, well, looting won't be tolerated. And I thought, aren't you the guy that doubled down on pushing back with Proposition 36 was meant to crack down on theft and drug crimes. What do you mean it won't be? You tolerated it all through the riots. You've tolerated it for years. You pushed back on it again in this last election cycle. So my question in a nutshell here is do you think this climate that has been created by Newsom and the Basses of the world has made this an environment ripe for and looting?

[Anna Kasparian]

So look, I don't know anything about these rumors regarding gangs intentionally starting fires in order to, you know, loot these wealthier neighborhoods that have been impacted by the fires. What I do know, you know, going back to my text to you, you know, just to shed more light on what happens. So I live in like the foothills type area. So at one point, the Palisades fire hadn't quite reached the San Fernando Valley yet, but it was getting very, very close. I could see flame, I could see flames from where I live in the hills and it was terrifying. And so me and my husband decide to evacuate to the middle of the San Fernando Valley. That seemed to be the safest place and so we went to the area where I actually grew up, Reseda. And when I was in Reseda, we get notification that a new fire had started in Reseda. And it was a giant encampment fire. Luckily, firefighters were able to get control of it. And they put it out. They contained it, they put it out. But this has been an ongoing problem in Southern California for a while now. And it's not because homeless people are bad people, but a lot of them are severely mentally ill and they're starting fires. They've been doing this. This has been an ongoing thing. And so when you have that unchecked, and it has been unchecked, in addition to high speed winds, dry conditions, it's just the perfect combination for destructive and deadly wildfires. And people get mad when you bring it up, but I don't know what else to do. Are we supposed to pretend like this isn't happening? Oh, my God. You're saying something that stigmatizes the homeless. No, I'm saying something that is real.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's true.

[Anna Kasparian]

We have been dealing with for years. And it is terrifying people. It is destroying neighborhoods. We need to find a better solution than just letting severely mentally ill people on the streets to do whatever they damn well please. It is not fair to us. It is not fair to them. It's not fair to us. It is insane. Now, in regard to the looting, are we really surprised? Are we really surprised? Okay, now wait for the chorus of rad libs to argue. Oh, they're just hungry. I don't give an S. Hungry. They're hungry. There's gotta give an S if they're hungry.

[Jillian Michaels]

Anna, they're walking out of homes with art and television. Come on. I haven't even. I can't even go that far down the rabbit hole with you. It's so ridiculous. They're organized. I mean, there are groups of guys breaking into homes in full ski masks and garb. It's. I mean, literally, I was talking to my brother because I went to New York to do New Year New you press. And he's like, yeah, we're all sitting here. We're armed. I'm like, you're. Are you kidding? He was dead serious. Everybody I know wanted to go buy a gun. I mean, it's just madness because they don't trust that the city will protect them. Now, with that said, Newsom did call in the guard, thank God. And I wonder, by the way, why days later, you knew about this. You admitted to knowing about this on Sunday. I believe these fires broke out On. Was it Tuesday? I think it was Tuesday the 7th. He admitted to knowing about this and being prepared for it on the 5th. And then he called the Garden, I think on Wednesday the 8th, like days later. Why? Why?

[Anna Kasparian]

The only reason why. This is my theory. This is what I suspect happened. Once someone like Gavin Newsom realizes that his inaction has become a political liability, that's when he acts, right? Gavin Newsom looks out for Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom only cares about his political career. He doesn't care about you getting robbed on the streets. He doesn't care about homeless people starting fires. He doesn't care about the looters. He doesn't care about all the multiple targets, Walmart, CVS's that have now shut down, closed their doors, did away with hundreds, thousands of jobs because of the theft, because of all the retail crime. He doesn't care about any of that. The only time he does care, though, is when he realizes, oh, people see me for what I am and it's gonna hurt me, right? So I say that because for the first time in so long, in several years, I am noticing Californians and Angelenos in particular wake up and speak out against the local Democrats. And nothing is going to change unless voters rise up and do something about this, okay? Because again, Gavin Newsom doesn't care about you, okay?

[Jillian Michaels]

Not at all.

[Anna Kasparian]

Karen Bass clearly doesn't care about you. No, you have to make them care about you. And I think that's the reason why Newsom finally called in the National Guard. There was so much outrage.

[Jillian Michaels]

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[Michael Schellenberger]

So do like I did and have.

[Jillian Michaels]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Anna Kasparian]

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[Jillian Michaels]

Extra fee, full [e-mail] I want to go off piste one more time. A clip surfaced this morning where Gavin Newsom literally, and I don't know if you've seen it yet, he's dancing like this and he's like I just spoke with the I swear to God, I'm going to insert it. I just spoke with the governor of Hawaii, and he's talking about land prospectors coming in. And I'm thinking he's going to say, give us his bullshit about how he's going to protect everybody in California, right? And it's like. And I'm gonna work with my team and my lawyers to facilitate this and shepherd this through. And all of these conspiracy theories, what I deem to be conspiracy theories about, oh, they're gonna reclaim land, and, you know, they're not getting high enough property taxes. Cause that Property was bought 20 years ago and it's worth a thousand times more. And I thought, well, it doesn't make sense. Property taxes get reassessed and nobody can. You can't plan for these wins. This is ridiculous. And then another clip of him talking about reimagining California and Los Angeles 2.0. And you're thinking, hold on. These fires are currently 16% contained. And you're talking about your plans to reimagine the city, and you're going to work with your team of lawyers to facilitate the ability of prospectors to do a real estate grab. And I thought, like, maybe I misinterpreted it. Cause honestly, I swear to God, maybe I did. And I said, please, community notes, like, am I reading this wrong? Am I complete? And then there's the I'm gonna reimagine California. What are your thoughts on this? Am I crazy? Have I gone down the rabbit hole and thinking there's some nefarious intent here? That can't be possible, right?

[Anna Kasparian]

I have not seen those videos with Newsom. I'm definitely gonna watch them after this interview. But I can see speak to what we have seen happen, the trend that's been taking place not just in California, but across the country after a natural disaster hits and people lose their homes. Go to Maui. I mean, they were ravaged by wildfires. And all those people who lost their homes have not been able to rebuild. They're still without their homes. And oftentimes what happens. And I've seen this take place in Fort Myers, Florida, which was victimized by a brutal hurricane. A lot of the residential homes were wiped out as a result of the flooding and as a result of that hurricane. A few years later, my husband and I visited Fort Myers. We love that area. We have, like a short family vacation once a year there. But when we were finally able to return, what did we notice? Developers had come in and they had built Airbnbs hotels. There were very few homes that had been rebuilt. And so this is what's referred to as disaster capitalism, where those with the capital see a disaster not as a tragedy, but as an opportunity. And these are people with deep pockets who are able to either legally bribe the politicians to loosen up some of the red tape so they can build. These are people who have the resources that ordinary Americans do not have. And so while ordinary Americans, certainly in a place like California, will need to abide by incredibly difficult permitting processes and difficult, like red tape developers and those with deep pockets have the resources to bypass some of those regulations or figure out what the loopholes or the carve outs can be for those types of regulations. And so the other thing that they do is they take advantage of the fact that it's so difficult to rebuild because of the red tape. And so they'll just buy the land off of the Americans who have lost their homes on said land. It's just. It's so depressing. And this is a very real problem. I actually don't think that it's a conspiracy. I think that this is how our system is set up. Now the question is, is it intentionally set up this way? And that would be the conspiracy. Right. But whether it's intentionally set up this way or not, it is set up this way.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Anna Kasparian]

And it is further victimizing people who have already been victimized by tragic events, whether it's a natural disaster, wildfires, things like that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm going to play this real quick just so you can hear it. It's 20 seconds. Hang on. Okay. And I'll insert it right here. Ready? Sounds like this. Here he is. I wish you could see him dancing. We're dealing with a myriad of issues.

[Michael Schellenberger]

I was just talking to Josh Green.

[Jillian Michaels]

The governor of down in Hawaii, who.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Had some ideas around some land use concerns he has around speculators coming in.

[Jillian Michaels]

Buying up properties and the like. So we're already working with our legal.

[Anna Kasparian]

Teams to move those things forward, and.

[Jillian Michaels]

We'Ll be presenting those in a matter.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Of days, not just weeks.

[Jillian Michaels]

So I thought he was gonna say, we're concerned and we're gonna block it. Instead he's like, we're gonna move those things forward and we're gonna present those in a matter of days and weeks. Then in another video, he's talking about reimagining California. In another video, he's talking about how he's gonna cut red tape despite the fact that when my house burned down in 2018, it took me a year to get a permit to clean up the catastrophe everywhere. The debris to Drain the pool. I mean, I just cannot even believe this man is saying this out loud. So it's like, tell me.

[Anna Kasparian]

Yeah, so I have heard him talk about this. I hope the reporter he was speaking to asks a follow up question, because in other interviews, I've heard him say that he's going to attempt to block these.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, that's what I was hoping.

[Anna Kasparian]

But here's the thing about Gavin Newsom. He talks a big talk, and then when no one's looking, when no one's paying attention, he does the opposite. A perfect example of that was what happened in his first year as governor. So, first year as governor, he had this lofty goal of investing in land management to clear dry brush, to do forest management in order to mitigate the impact of wildfires. And that's the other thing. Look, we have wildfire season in California. We've always had wildfire season in California. And so wildfires have been a longstanding issue in the state even before climate change was something that people were aware of, were talking about. We have to engage in efforts to mitigate the severity of these wildfires. Land management is part of that. So in his first year, he actually did increase the amount of land that had been cleared of dry brush, forests that had been managed more appropriately. But then after his first year, he actually cut funding.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Anna Kasparian]

For these efforts. Over $100 million in cuts, I believe, if I remember the numbers correctly. But nonetheless, what he likes to do is engage in policies that the people want, popular policies. And that's when people are paying attention. He'll do the bare minimum and he'll give himself a pat on the back. And then when people aren't looking, he'll cut the budget. And I want to understand, with the high taxes we pay in the state, why are you cutting the budget for critical things like land management?

[Jillian Michaels]

He vetoed that bill.

[Anna Kasparian]

Why aren't you more upset about the fact that $24 billion. Gone. $24 billion that were funneled to these nonprofits for homelessness. Gone. Gone. It didn't go to the homeless. Okay. It didn't alleviate the homeless crisis. It certainly didn't solve a damn thing. But I do know the executives at these NGOs are collecting real sweet salaries, way more than I'm getting paid. Okay, you, that, that you said to.

[Jillian Michaels]

The tune of like a half a million dollars.

[Anna Kasparian]

Yeah, Yep.

[Jillian Michaels]

They're getting of taxpayer dollars to run NGOs to solve a homeless problem that's gone up 30% in the last several years. And what I know your time is limited. I know you're quite literally on the run. What needs to change? What would you do differently? What can we do or what can Californians do? Now.

[Anna Kasparian]

This is certainly the biggest issue I see in California, but I think it's a problem across the country, and I really want people to hear what I'm saying right now. We need to move past the partisan brain rot and hold our parties accountable when they f up. And the Democratic Party has been effing up a lot lately. And so if your gut instinct is to provide cover for the foibles and the mistakes and the mismanagement and the horrible governance of the Democratic Party because you identify as a Democrat and you really dislike the other party, unfortunately you are contributing to the problem because nothing will change unless these politicians are terrified of consequences from the voters. Gavin Newsom didn't call in the National Guard until he was terrified of the consequences of not doing so. Far, too many people have written into me because they don't like the fact that I'm criticizing Newsom. In fact, one person was like, I find him breathtaking. I don't care how hot you think Gavin Newsom is, okay? I personally think that his internal ugliness is so severe that I could never look at him and see an attractive person. I look at him and I see a monster.

[Jillian Michaels]

I do, too.

[Anna Kasparian]

They're not going to represent you effectively. They're not going to look out for you, and they're not going to do what's right unless you, the voter, demand it. That's what I want.

[Jillian Michaels]

Where can everyone get more from you?

[Anna Kasparian]

Well, check out my [e-mail] you can also watch the Young Turks daily Monday through Friday at 3pm Pacific, 6pm Eastern. We will be talking about the fires today, top of the show, so please check that out.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you so much. Anna, you're brilliant as always. I really appreciate your perspective and all of your advocacy, and I hope everything is okay and will be okay. And I look forward to speaking with you soon.

[Anna Kasparian]

Thank you so much, Jillian. I appreciate it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Michael, thank you so much for joining me. I know you're on route right now, about to break a huge story in Los Angeles. All transparency, everyone. I begged Michael to give me a few minutes of his time because I know you are deep in what the hell is going on with how these fires have been mismanaged. And I'm gonna start with the excuses, and then I'm just gonna let you go and ask questions along the way as you unveil new information to me. Number one, we needed to shut the power off, otherwise the power lines could have fallen, and that's why the hydrogens didn't work. Number two, the reservoir that was drained was irrelevant. It was small. We needed to do repairs. Number three, we've got ridiculous climate change. Nobody could have stopped this. It was an act of God. And if I missed anything, please let me know. Go.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Well, look, I mean, the first thing is that this was not completely unexpected. They had. They'd known that there had been Santa Ana winds in January before. This is not so anomalous. They didn't predict it right. They had. And I think here's the most important thing that people should know. The national weather Service on January 2 issued an extreme fire warning to underscore the point, on January 3rd, they held a press briefing warning of extreme fire risk. The day after that, Mayor Karen Bass leaves the country. She just flies to Ghana. This is somebody who had promised never to go abroad while she was mayor. She's gone abroad six times. It's a vanity junket. There's no reason for her to go abroad, but especially because there was this inevitability to the fire. I mean, this wasn't like a might happen kind of thing. But even if it had, they should have stayed. Given the risk of catastrophe. They knew there was going to be a fire. They were so confident of it that the Weather Service is just raising the alarm. So, I mean, that's the most important thing which should have happened next on January 2nd. January 3rd is two things. The first, Governor Gavin Newsom should have set up an emergency command center, mobilize the National Guard, ask Canada, Mexico and all 49 other states to send firefighters, including from across California, to just come to LA and be ready. They should have put fire engines in the neighborhoods most at risk just to be standing by. You know, look, worst case scenario, you waste some people's, you know, you spend money on firefighters that you don't need. We're talking about a disaster that we're estimated is that now, what, $100 billion. They could have spent $100 million in advance buying somewhere around 100 to 200 fire engines, maintaining them, storing them at different parts of la. You know, I just interviewed a firefighter yesterday who was saying they could have stored like 30 of these fire engines at Dodger Stadium, but they could have stored them in the hills, but they would have mobilized them in advance. This is the most important thing. And then when, as soon as you know you're going to get Fires. It's almost impossible not to have any fires, but you got to put them out right away. You got to be mobilized for, not right away. So you know the other. And then finally you would be flying these C130s that you're seeing that are, that you're seeing them dumping water.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Michael Schellenberger]

You just start flying them with water over the affected areas. I mean, this is. People have to understand and you know, because you live there. Yes, this is some of the greatest, wealthiest properties in the world. I mean, this is world class properties. These are people that are billionaires. They have plenty of money. Rick Caruso, the mayoral candidate who lost to the current mayor, saved his properties by having a private fire department on around at the time. So look, it's all about preparation. The reservoir thing is just egregious. I interviewed the head of a water utility in California who said that, look, first of all the repairs, they just had to repair the COVID This is like the big tarp that covered the water to make sure that birds didn't poop in it. They should never have drained it, first of all, never drain it during the fire season. They could do the repair some other time of year. True. It would have meant that the water was no longer potable, no longer drinking water, because of course the water in the hydrants is the same as the drinking water. That's fine. They would have just not had to go into the water system. It would have just held on reserve. And look, it was. That particular reservoir is the second largest reservoir of the ten major reservoirs that the LA city depends upon. And it was drained of water. I mean, it's madness. And not only that, but the people say, oh, but the pressure would have gone in anyway. Not at all. This reservoir was right above. It was very high up. It was right near Pacific Palisades fire, which is one of the major fires. If you go to Google Maps and you look at Santa Ines Reservoir, it's right next to the Pacific Palisades fire. It's just a walking. It's just crazy that this happened so series of disasters leading up to it, but really just start from January 2nd. That should have been the moment that everybody was mobilized.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why do you think they weren't? There are so many whys. Because even as a layman who doesn't understand any of this, common sense would dictate that you would manage the forestry, you would put in firebreaks, you would build the reservoirs that were commissioned in 2014. Michael, what is your theory as to why all of this is so Botched and so bungled. I cannot wrap my head around it.

[Michael Schellenberger]

I mean, I think the big picture is that the politicians in California are just focused on themselves. I mean, that sounds mean, but I mean, they're just obsessed with the next job. It's just one of the next characteristics. Like, if you're the. If you're the lieutenant governor, you want to be governor. If you're mayor, you want to be lieutenant governor. If you're the. In the state assembly, you want to be in the state senate. If you're the LA mayor, you want to be governor. They're always looking at that next job, and that means they're always engaged in politics, which is always very petty. It's. It's really like. It's not that different from junior high school. Like, at a social level, they're obsessed with each other. They gossip and talk about each other all the time. They are in a bubble socially. They hang out with very wealthy people. They really are disconnected from common people and they're disconnected from physical realities. I mean, why else did Gavin Newsom cut the fire, the forest fire budget in 2020? Why did Mayor Karen Bass cut $17.5 million from the fire budget? And she was moving towards an additional $49 million of cuts? It's. It's crazy. They were. There's a lot of talk about dei. Okay, right. Were they. Is that a major reason for it? Can we prove the role played? You know, no, not exactly, but the firefighter that I interviewed just said that, look, whenever the focus is on anything other than the job, whenever your focus is on anything other than the job, you're distracted. And the job is fire safety. The job is physical security. And they have absolutely been obsessed with DEI at the fire departments of Los Angeles. Part of the problem, Jillian, there are, as you know, there's 88 cities. Most people outside of LA don't know there's 88 cities in Los Angeles County. One of them is Los Angeles, the city of Los angeles. Of those 88 cities, there's only. There's 29 fire departments. All of the other cities have their fire services done by LA County. When the LA County Fire Department is mobilizing to fires like the ones that you're having in la, they literally have to get on the phone and call the other fire departments to get their help. It's like, it's crazy that then they all have to meet somewhere. Meanwhile, the fire is raging. But they have to meet somewhere in Los Angeles. They have to get on the same radio state channels. They have to develop a plan of attack. And then they have to drive their fire engines through LA traffic up to the fire while people are evacuating. I mean, it is absolute madness. That's why you had to have the engines stationed near the fires, so they would be there right when they started. That's the bottom line.

[Jillian Michaels]

Here's another question for you. The absurdity of how this played out. And I think it was Sarah Michelle Geller, correct me if I'm wrong. Cause I was, you know, caught up in it, all this chaos myself, who had mentioned when she was trying to evacuate the Hollywood Hills, there was gridlock. And in the Palisades, you saw the. Oh, my God, what is now like, iconic footage of this bulldozer driving through gridlocked cars. It looked like a scene from the Walking Dead and the arg. But, Michael, the best part is just a few miles away, there were meter maids giving parking tickets. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, hold on a second. Again, not a genius, but if you know that you have an area prone to fires, and, you know, you've got people in the hills, and there's only, in some cases, one road of egress, and there's not. Would you not have a plan so that you could relocate people like meter maids to direct traffic if you need to take down traffic signals? How is there no plan?

[Michael Schellenberger]

Absolutely. I mean, they're. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Look, I mean, look, it would have been easy. It would be easier if there was a single fire department for the whole county. That's what should happen. They should consolidate it. But in the past, they were able to put out fires in a much more organized way with the current crazy system. And they didn't. You know, they could have also. Jillian, they could have evacuated many days in advance of the fires. I mean, they didn't. It could have been really, if you be really worried about it, right. They could have evacuated earlier, and then you wouldn't have had all that chaos, you know, at the end. The other thing is that I live in the Berkeley Hills. It's also a fire zone. It's also a dangerous fireplace. They. When the winds are blowing really hot and fast, it's really hot, they will shut off the power. Because basically the fires. I mean, look, if I had to reduce it. I mean, I'm not to say that nobody's smoking cigarettes anymore. In the old days, you know, people smoke a cigarette and they throw it in there. Right. I don't think that happens quite as much anymore. You're Looking at two big ignition risks. The first is the electrical wires rubbing up against the brush and causing fires. You have to clear the areas around the electrical wires. They did. Obviously haven't done a good enough job with that. But the second is that you've got somewhere around 60,000 homeless people in Los Angeles. Methamphetamine in particular, meth heads really love starting fires. I mean, everybody. If you're trying to live on the street, you're starting fires. Half of all fires that the Los Angeles fire departments respond to are to the homeless. I mean, it's a huge. Can you imagine the cost of that? I mean, you're in a, you know, millions of people, and yet 60,000 people are causing half of all the fires. So we know that one of. At least one of the fires started in the residential subdivision. Some of them might have come from that brushland area. But you also just need to reduce the ignitions. You've got to get people. This is now an imperative to get people off of the street. Mayor Bass ran on a campaign. Her campaign promise was called Inside Safe. It was to get everybody on the streets off the streets. Better for them. Your chance of dying as a homeless person is three times higher. Living on the street rather than being in a shelter where you can get the care that you need, because a lot of these people are addicts or suffering from mental illness. So the. The. The. The precursors, the things that led to the disaster are multiple. They were, yes, many years, many decades, including when the current politicians are officers. But really, I just kind of go, January 2, January 3, no excuses. That should have been the moment that the whole thing is mobilized and you had those fire engines sitting there physically waiting to put out fires as soon as they found them.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're talking about so many different elements, though. So it's not just, okay, what conditions made the state ripe for fire? Okay, what could we done? What could we have done in advance? But you're also talking about the homelessness crisis, which has been raging in California. Then you've got people looting. You have all of these different elements that have been left unattended, much to the outrage of people living in California. So much so that I actually left in 2021, but couldn't extricate my mother and my ex, which is unfortunately why I have to go back to California so often. I was in California when the whole thing erupted. And there was, ironically, I was damn near at the exact location where it started on Sunset and pch, because I went to the gym. There was a new Equinox there and I was smelling smoke and they set off the alarms and I thought, oh, they know about this. We all got the warnings last night with a hurricane wind thing. They're gonna be right on top of that. I took my time. I was like, I got five more minutes in the sauna. Michael. I couldn't have imagined that they could have been this unprepared. Now, speaking of climate change, cuz you understand this uniquely as well as the homelessness crisis.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can you explain to me the smelt fish thing is this, I've heard, like, it's not a lot of water. It is a lot of water. It does matter. It doesn't what's going on with California's water? Because that's also part of this.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Yes. Well, on the issue of. So when everything's breaking down, when civilization is breaking down as a whole, it's because you're in a crisis of governance, meaning your leaders are not actually governing in the way they need to be. I mean, the, you need a command center in an emergency. You need that hierarchy, need people issuing demands. We had one governor who, our governor is focused on running for president in 2028. We've got a mayor who just loves to go out on junkets and be a cosmopolitan. I mean, California politicians. I mean, look, California is the greatest state in the world, right? I live there, I love it. I mean, we know it's special, but there's an arrogance that the policy, the politicians, they act like they're heads of state. You're like, you're the mayor, you gotta clean up the garbage. That's your job. But no, no, I've got to go and be at the inauguration of the new president of Ghana. I mean, it's just really awful in that sense. It's a crisis of governance. That's why you're gonna see some of these. Everything's breaking down. Look, on the water issue, Trump was directionally correct, okay? The specifics were not quite right. I mean, so the thing to understand is there's two different kinds of reservoirs. There's just the lakes that we call a reservoir. You call like a lake or reservoir. It's a reservoir of water that's getting the water that's getting the snow melt. We passed a bond, as I think you tweeted about on X, that was that we should raise the, the size of these reservoirs, build new reservoirs that we can expand the capacity of water that we're holding for all of our needs, whether it's farming or lawns or just drinking Water or whatever we need. So we've all agreed that we need to do that. Gavin Newsom has not done it again because he is focused on himself. And then there's the second reservoir, which is the drinking water reservoirs. That's the Santa Ines reservoir that we're all obsessed with. That was right near the Pacific Palisades. That was empty. That had they let the water out ostensibly for repairs, but there was never a reason they should have done that. That's potable water. There are 10 of those just around L. A specifically for this purpose. You know, so is it a problem that we haven't built and expanded the non potable snow melt rainwater reservoirs? Yes. Was that the proximate cause of the lack of water in Los Angeles? No, it was not. And so, but you know, it's one of these things where it's like when, when Trump gets kind of part of it wrong and then Gavin comes out and goes, I'm going to check the misinformation. Gavin then makes it sound like there wasn't a big problem. There was a big problem both with, with both kinds of reservoirs, one of them directly related to the Los Angeles reservoir. But look, I mean, all you need to know about it is that the second largest clean water, potable water, fire hydrant, water reservoir, was empty. I mean, and there was no excuse for that. And according to the Free Press, according to Barry Weiss's publication, the reporter that looked into it said that the fire department didn't even know that it was empty. I taught the person I spoke to, who's a senior water utility executive at a different water system in California, said, that is crazy. Like, the first call, if you have no water in this really essential reservoir, the first call is to the regulator. The second call is to the fire department and just be like, look, we don't have 117 million gallons of water. I mean, that is a lot of water. That is enough water to give you the pressure on the hydrants that they needed. Certainly in Pacific Palisades, if not in the rest of Los Angeles, you know.

[Jillian Michaels]

They'Re saying that, oh, forestry management wouldn't have mattered because the winds were so crazy. And you mentioned that the governor. The governor, my God, I wish she was the governor. You mentioned that Rick Caruso, the would have been mayor, managed to protect his spots in the Palisades with a private firefighting team. But that said, there was a fire scar in northern Malibu for where northern Malibu just burned down. And they're on the news going, well, the fire has Stopped here in northern Malibu because of the fire scar, which is a natural firebreak from a burn that just happened before. They did, by the way, manage, fortunately, to save so many of those different structures. I know because my friends had their kids sheltering in place at Pepperdine as the fire's burning all around them. And you're thinking, it already did work. There's a fire break right there. It stopped the fire in its tracks from burning down structures in northern Malibu. We already know this stuff can work. And yet they continue to make the excuses.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

What, Michael? What is the way forward? People. People ask me that, and my answer is fire. Gavin Newsom and Mayor Bass. But really, you understood this. You ran for governor. I wish I had known it at the time when I was in California. Will you run again? Your grasp on what needs to happen is stellar. I mean, it's crystal clear. You're so well versed what needs to happen going forward. Because we both know this is not an isolated event. It happens year after year after year after year, and it's going to happen again. How do we avoid this?

[Michael Schellenberger]

Yeah, I mean, look, this is the most important question. And by the way, whether or not I run. And I haven't even thought about, I mean, literally haven't talked to my wife and thought about it. So it's just mood. But whoever is governor, the first thing is you have to care about civilization. That may sound really, like, abstract or something. It's actually a really basic physical process. Everything around us is physical. I'm not. I have a. We have a spiritual life. You know, Hollywood and Los Angeles is the City of Angels. We should have a spiritual life. We should have an imagination. But we live in a physical reality, and you have to maintain that physical reality. There is a group of people, call them radical left, woke left, you know, but they're not always. But now that's a group of people, they hate civilization. They hate. They think it's capitalism, it's modernity. One of the most famous authors in Los Angeles, a guy named Mike Davis, wrote a book called City of Quartz. One of the chapters is called Let Malibu Burn. They just hate. They just don't think that there should be people in Malibu. That's the problem, is that there's just some people that really. You can call it envy. Look, let's face it. I mean, Pacific Palisades, Malibu, these are some of the wealthiest, incredible places. These are some of the most privileged people in the world. But we protect our citizens. Doesn't matter if they're rich or Poor. We have an obligation to protect them. If they need to pay, you know, more to take care of the place around their home, they should do that. They already do pay more in taxes. But you have to believe in wanting to protect those communities. You have to understand that civilization is good. It's how we protect ourselves. This is not. Preventing these catastrophic fires is not technically difficult. It's not like fusion or decoding the human genome or fly. Or taking a rocket to Mars or landing a rocket. I mean, this is all happening as a backdrop of, like, Elon Musk is, like, landing rockets, like, and, you know, having this elaborate satellite system. And look at how we're communicating right now. I mean, these are all. These are all technologically difficult things. We're talking about, you know, putting out fires, like, maybe one of the most ancient things that humans have ever done. So it's definitely not like a hard. Is the world getting warmer? Yes. Is that like, the fact that the wood was, you know, that it was drier and whatever. Is that part of the problem? Yes. Is that from climate change? You know, we had. We had dry. We had dry seasons before. I mean, there is no change in precipitation. I posted online the amount of precipitation has unchanged in the Los angeles basin since 1877. So there's no evidence of any change of rainfall. There's been. There's dry seasons, there's wet seasons. As you know, as a Californian, you know, that's just what it is like. It's. When it's too wet, everybody goes, oh, my gosh, is climate change. When it's too dry, that goes. Climate change. That's not the main event. The main event is how we handle our environment, how we manage our environment. That's not rocket science. You have to fund your fire departments. You know, you have to maintain your reservoirs. And that all of that requires people that you've elected to office, that that's what they care about. They get up every morning being like, hey, I want to keep my people safe because I love humanity, I love Los Angeles. And they're not getting up every morning being like, hey, how do I, you know, position myself for my next run? You know, or how do I go get some good publicity, or how do I go rub elbows with some foreign leader? You. It really starts from your heart. It really starts with caring about people and loving this incredible civilization that we inherited from our great grandparents and our grandparents and parents who were a lot poorer than we are and who struggled a lot more than we did. It's a disservice for them to just completely fall down on the basic maintenance of this incredibly special, you know, beautiful civilization that we've inherited.

[Jillian Michaels]

One statement and one question. The one statement I want to make is that we are all seeing, you know, Paris Hilton's house burned down. And there was some headline I wanted to kill the Daily Mail where it was like, Jillian Michaels, $10 million mansion stands. And I was like, well, first of all, I sold that house four years. And second of all, I did not pay $10 million for it. But it's like, if you're focusing on this stuff, people aren't going to have sympathy. And the reality is that there are many regular people who have lost everything and are going to be financially devastated. I lost a house in the 2018 fire. I was very well insured. I was fine. Like, there's nothing. I'm good. I didn't lose anything. I'm out of California. I'm 100% okay. It is the people that are not 100% okay. Which brings me to my next question, and I'll make it my last, cuz I know you're on the go and you've got a huge story you're about to break, but the insurance issue, somehow all of these insurance companies knew to pull out of California just a few months prior. And then you've got California Fair Plan. And I don't really understand how this works. So correct me if I'm wrong. I'm under the impression that California Fair Plan doesn't allow big inflation insurers to charge what they would need to charge to stay in the state. And so they're not incentivized to stay. And then the necessary mitigation elements are not done, which doesn't incentivize them to stay. And now you have thousands of people that are not insured or are underinsured, and this is going to financially devastate their entire lives. Do you have any thoughts on why this is happening or what could be done to fix something like that?

[Michael Schellenberger]

Yeah, I mean, look, at a first principle level, you. We genuinely, you, you do want free markets in terms of insurance because you don't want to be having public subsidies for things that nobody would insure privately because then it's going to be. You're at risk of people taking risks. It's known as moral hazard in economics. So one of the risks of having the government provide that insurance is that it would end up subsidizing bad, you know, dangerous investments. But here's the thing. It all comes back to maintenance. It all comes back to management. You know, you can live in a forest, like you can live on a cliff. You can live. I mean, look, we're an earthquake. I mean, we all thought it was going to be. We all worried about the big earthquake, right? And ended up being a big fires. So, you know, but we have done an incredible good job actually in California of preparing for earthquakes. We all, you know, those of us who live here, we know you. There's a way to retrofit your house. I live on a hill. I live on a very, very steep hillside in a slide zone. But I have a lot of confidence in the building because this is science, this is technology. We know how to, how to make. You know, and our house has gone through earthquakes and it's done really well, even though it was built 100 years ago. So we know how to prepare for these things. If, again, it all comes back to governance. If your leaders care about civilization, and they're physicalists, I don't know what the right word is, but they're people that recognize that we live in a physical reality that has to be maintained, then there's no reason why you couldn't maintain the area around electrical wires or bury them, you know, in places that you need to, because it would be too expensive to do statewide.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right?

[Michael Schellenberger]

But you can maintain that. You have fire crews. I mean, it's so funny because it's like, like, oh, well, do we have all the people for this? It's like, look, we got a lot of young men just sitting, playing video games in their mom's basement. Like they would. They would do really well to be, you know, on fire crews, you know, doing, you know, risk of being politically incorrect, doing some masculine work, getting out there and then work. But there's, you know, look, that's the work of living in California. It's a. This is a premium. California is a premium state. We pay a lot extra to live there. I mean, the taxes are absurd. And so, yeah, we pay to maintain it. Like people. We all pay a lot more money to live in California, but we're not getting the services in return because we've just elected people who have sold us certain fantasies around ESG and DEI and trans and homelessness and climate apocalypse. And they haven't done that really basic work of maintaining civilization.

[Jillian Michaels]

Michael, you're brilliant. Where can everybody get more from you?

[Michael Schellenberger]

Public News is our website and substack. And you can find me at Stellenberger on X.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you so much. And to everybody watching, Michael will weaponize you with the information you get. I learned everything from you and Anna, and I can't thank you enough for joining me and educating me and all of the Watchers. Travel safe, and I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you for everything.

[Michael Schellenberger]

Thanks, Jillian. I appreciate.