Podcast Summary:

Keeping It Real with Jillian Michaels
Episode: INSIDE EPSTEIN OPERATION, VENEZUELA AIR STRIKES, GAZA PEACE DEAL W / CIA Insider Mike Baker
Release Date: November 23, 2025
Guest: Mike Baker, Former CIA Officer, CEO of Portman Square Group, Host of The President’s Daily Brief

Episode Overview

Jillian Michaels brings on CIA insider Mike Baker for an unflinching conversation about three major current event flashpoints:

• The true story (and theories) behind Jeffrey Epstein and his possible intelligence connections
• The recent US naval airstrikes against Venezuelan narco-trafficking operations, and whether they signal deeper geopolitical motives
• The changing landscape of the Middle East, political jockeying over the Gaza ceasefire, the roles of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the challenge of Iran.

Michaels, playing the role of the inquisitive everyperson, asks Baker to clarify rumors, cut through misinformation, and articulate what intelligence professionals really see happening in the shadowy intersection of power, politics, and global security.

Key Topics and Insights

1. The Epstein Intel Asset Question

[03:00-35:10]

• Popular Narratives vs. Reality:

  • Michaels lists widely discussed claims: Epstein as an intelligence asset (CIA/Mossad/MI6), kompromat schemes, influence peddling, honeytrap operations, and the notion Ghislaine Maxwell inherited her father’s intelligence links.
  • Baker: “People have to be careful when they start talking about these things because there’s more complexity… There’s a range [of intel relationships].” (05:44)
  • He stresses the lack of hard evidence that Epstein was officially working for any intelligence service.

• How Spy Agencies Define “Assets”:

  • “If I’m an intel service, Jeffrey Epstein is a real person of interest… Would I want him as a recruited asset? Well, sure. Because he’s collected all these interesting people around him… I’m going to push this relationship and see what this is all about.” (09:46, 11:35)
  • Epstein’s Rolodex itself would attract agency attention, but it does not prove he was managed as an asset.

• Fraudster Patterns and Elite Circles:

  • Michaels probes strange career jumps (Epstein teaching at Dalton, then Bear Stearns), suggesting possible deep state placement.
  • Baker: “On the surface it sounds very bizarre… That sort of activity… are certain traits that fraudsters and scam artists typically do. Right. They’re inflating their cv, they’re getting a door open and then using that to push their way through.” (15:59)

• Conviction, Leverage, and Power:

  • Epstein’s 2008 conviction and light sentence are highly suspicious, fueling rumors of intel protection.
  • “He had developed quite the cadre of wealthy, influential individuals and he had probably co-opted some of them or felt… you kind of owe me.” (19:12)
  • Both guest and host agree it’s “friggin’ bizarre” such a high-profile offender received leniency.

• On Honeytrap (Sexual Kompromat) Operations:

  • “Are honey pots, honey traps a thing? Sure they are… If what he was doing was, I’m setting up this whole trafficking thing at the behest of an intel [service]… that’d be very sloppy tradecraft.” (27:58, 28:19)
  • Baker: Real intelligence ops are “much more discreet and clandestine.”

• Cynicism and the Stakes:

  • Baker is skeptical major truths will emerge: “It’s the city where investigations go to die.” (33:59)
  • Both parties reflect on how “both sides” exploit Epstein for political gain, rather than focus on justice for victims.

Notable Quotes:

• “If I saw Jeffrey Epstein, he was a collector of people... Would I want him as a recruited asset? Well, sure…” —Mike Baker [09:46]
• “It's speculation, but it's not uninformed speculation that you could say, 'Yeah, these people felt some form of obligation [to Epstein] beyond just, Well, I sure like Jeffrey.'” —Mike Baker [19:12]
• “If you’re going to run a blackmail operation for an intelligence agency, you’d do it more discreetly than this.” —Mike Baker [29:12]

2. Venezuela Air Strikes: Counter-Narco TK or Regime Change?

[35:21-53:57]

• Situation Recap:

  • US (under Trump) strikes boats off Venezuela, claiming counter-narco intent.
  • Michaels: “Is this about narco terrorism... or is all of this about regime change?” (35:21)

• Baker’s Analysis:

  • “The deployment... is designed to create an environment where the pressure builds so much internally... that either Maduro himself decides... [to leave or] his inner circle says, now you know what? Maduro’s got to go.” (37:43)
  • The real intent is to promote internal regime change without boots on the ground.

• Geostrategic Context:

  • Venezuela’s collapse began with Chavez; Maduro has deepened the crisis.
  • The region’s strategic importance comes from oil reserves and proximity to Russia and China.
  • “You can have people who legitimately are working this issue because… they want a better country, and others who look at it and go, man, we could certainly use those resources.” (53:35)

• Intel Caution:

  • Baker says agencies tend to be risk-averse about kinetic actions without “buttoned up” intelligence.
  • “I have no problem targeting narco traffickers, but… what’s the credibility of the intelligence that you’re operating on?” (48:59)

Notable Quotes:

• “You don’t send a carrier strike group to support just counter-narcotics… you send that to send a message.” —Mike Baker [37:43]
• “Multiple things can be true at the same time.” —Mike Baker [53:35]

3. The Middle East: Gaza, Saudi, Qatar, and Iran

[53:57-80:12]

• US Relations with Saudi & Qatar:

  • Discussion of Jamal Khashoggi’s killing and realpolitik: “Is it in our own nation’s self interest to burn down the relationship with Saudi Arabia? No… You can certainly express your displeasure and make a point of it... but I wouldn’t die on that hill.” (56:04)
  • Both Saudi and Qatar act in their self-interest; Qatar in particular “plays both sides of the fence better than anyone.”

• Gaza Peace/Truce Prospects:

  • Skepticism about the effectiveness of peace plans as long as Hamas maintains arms and control.
  • “You’re not going to get the cooperation of any nation to take part in this international stabilization force… if they have to go into Gaza with the notion that they’ve got to disarm terrorist groups.” (63:54)

• The Role of Iran:

  • Iran continues to build up arms and missile programs post-conflict.
  • Change can only realistically occur from within: “The only answer for Iran… is change from within. The people have to get to the point where they’re done with this.” (77:45)
  • US and West do have a history of complicating things: “It's not one nation or another... It's human nature.” (74:48)

• The “Vacuum of Power” Paradox:

  • In many regions, US intervention intended to improve authoritarian situations can lead to even more extreme regimes.
  • “Why is it always the most extreme that fills the vacuum?... The pendulum does tend to swing wildly.” (80:12)

Notable Quotes:

• “No one plays both sides of the fence better than the Qataris.” —Mike Baker [60:20]
• “They just want the problem to go away. The Qataris are probably the most pragmatic people out there.” —Mike Baker [67:11]
• “If the lack of water doesn’t finally wake up the people of Iran to say… we need a different form of government—then nothing will.” —Mike Baker [78:23]

4. Society, Government, and What Individuals Should Do

[83:26-end]

• US Domestic Parallels:

  • US faces its own unrest and systemic challenges—affordability, health care, immigration, debt, political polarization.
  • “Everyone knows the country’s in massive debt, right? ...But you can’t do that. Politicians don’t have the courage because they want to get reelected.” (83:49)

• Why Good People Avoid Politics:

  • The system is self-perpetuating; term limits could help.
  • “People look at it and go, I'm not putting myself and my family through that mess.” (86:04)

• What Can Citizens Do?

  • “The first thing people need to worry about is misinformation and disinformation… You're really the only meaningful line of defense.” (88:20)
  • Advocates for individual due diligence before spreading information, practice of civility even amidst strong disagreements.

• On Nuance in Politics:

  • Baker: “I'm pissing everybody off, right? Because I'm saying, well, that's a good idea, but that's also a good idea. And people on both sides are now pissed off at you—which probably means you’re doing something right.” (91:46)

Notable Quotes:

• “You have to, you're really the only meaningful line of defense. The individual is.” —Mike Baker [88:20]

Memorable Moments & Soundbites

• On being targeted by intel:
  • “If you were going to run a blackmail operation for intelligence, you’d do it a lot more discreetly.” —Mike Baker [29:12]
• Balancing principles and reality:
  • “There are the hills you die on: family, friends, honesty, loyalty. But with policies... you have to understand both sides.” —Mike Baker [94:15]
• On public debate:
  • “No one seems to be living in the middle… if you do, people on both sides are pissed off at you—which probably means you’re doing something right.” —Mike Baker [91:46]

Timestamps & Segments

• Epstein Allegations, Myths, and Reality: [03:00–35:10]
• Venezuela Strike Analysis: [35:21–53:57]
• Middle East, Saudi, Qatar, Gaza, Iran: [53:57–80:12]
• Why Regime Change Goes Wrong: [80:12–84:25]
• US Domestic Parallels and Political Dysfunction: [83:26–87:05]
• What Ordinary People Can Do (Misinformation, Due Diligence, Civility): [88:20–end]

Takeaways

• “Multiple things can be true at the same time.” US actions abroad can have several motives—and both critics and supporters may have valid points.
• Lack of evidence is not evidence of a hidden hand: Many theories about intelligence manipulation (Epstein, regime change) are plausible but unproven.
• Regime change almost never yields easy or straightforward “wins.” The power vacuum often leads to greater chaos or greater extremism.
• Political self-preservation and media amplification distort both policy and public comprehension.
• The biggest defense against manipulation or chaos? Individual critical thinking, fact-checking, and engagement—plus demanding integrity without self-righteousness.

Host: “If we role model civility, people will lean into those not engaging in hateful vitriol… If one person does it that we admire and respect, I want to be more like Mike.” —Jillian Michaels [90:10]

Mike Baker: “If you do [show nuance], people on both sides are pissed off at you—which probably means you’re doing something right.” [91:46]

Guest Plug:
Mike Baker’s podcast, The President’s Daily Brief, covers top global intelligence and security stories without telling you how to think. Available on all platforms and YouTube.

End Summary