← Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Josh Seiter: THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL MAN ON THE INTERNET
01:08:14
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- [00:00]
A
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Direct@joycehotels.com teens share everything that may include the bacteria that can cause meningococcal disease known as meningitis. Even if your teen's been vaccinated in the past, they could still be missing meningitis vaccinations. Ask your teen's doctor or visit meningitis.com today. Sponsored by GSK. She's like, it is. He's trans. I'm like, no, he's not. Look at this guy. It's unbelievable what they can call a woman these days. Josh Seider, I'm telling you, he's trolling people. This went on for six months, and then finally you revealed that this was all a big troll, but you actually had Megyn Kelly attacking you on her show. Today's guest is Josh Seider. He's an Internet sensation who's built a massive following by putting his life on the line, quite literally, to take the social justice warriors head on. So whether he's infiltrating protests, going undercover at controversial events, or testing limits of today's social and political movements, Josh has made a name for himself, exposing what happens when ideology collides with reality. And as always, guys, if you're liking the show, please be sure to drop us a comment like share. Subscribe because it helps us a ton with the algorithm. Keeping it Real with Jillian Michaels. Josh Sater, welcome to the show. How are you?
- [01:53]
A
I'm amazing. How are you doing?
- [01:57]
B
I'm doing great. I cannot tell you what a creepy, weirdo fan I am of yours. And it's not just me. It's my entire family. And we'll get to that in just a moment. But for anybody watching who knows Josh, you're obviously in for a treat. And anybody watching who does not know Josh, you're in for, you're in for a huge treat, Josh. First off, for anybody who does not know you, tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do.
- [02:32]
A
Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me. I am a political satirist and political content creator, and what I try to do is just kind of hold a mirror up to the antics of the left and show Everybody how ridiculous they sound, because it's very easy and alluring to start buying in to the things that the left is trying to tell people, especially as relates to gender ideology. And so what I try to do is dismantle that by showing people that dressing up in a costume and claiming to be something you're not does not make you that thing. And that there's nothing noble and virtuous or kind when you do something like that or when you encourage it. And so I don costumes, and I go to political protests, and I really try to show people how pernicious and how fallacious this ideology is and why encouraging falsehoods is not productive and not good for a democratic society, and why, in fact, the onus is on us to correct falsehoods when we see them. And so that is basically the gravitas of what I do.
- [03:47]
B
So I want to rewind the clock here for a moment to when I first learned about you, and my wife was following you on social media, and she's like, oh, my God, the hot guy from the Bachelorette is trans. And of course, she's like, showing me these clips of you, and you're like, hey, everyone.
- [04:10]
A
Hey, everyone. Okay, so I have to admit, the women's bathroom is so much nicer than the men's bathroom. Did you know they even have waistbands for your feminine hygiene products? So it's just nice to feel accommodated and appreciated. And I just wanted to share. Bye, everyone.
- [04:32]
B
I'm going, this can't be possible. There's no way this is possible. And she's like, it is. He's trans. I'm like, no, he's not. This is. I'm telling you, he's trolling people. And this went on for six months. And we would fight over the dinner table and show each other the videos of you doing the craziest stuff, putting yourself in the craziest situations. And then finally, you revealed that this was all a big troll, but you actually had Megyn Kelly attacking you on her show. Okay, he has full body tattoos, which he shows off. He has short hair like men can.
- [05:10]
A
Women can have body tattoos.
- [05:11]
B
He has facial hair. Look at this. Look at this guy. It's unbelievable what they can call a woman these days. Josh Cider, 37. What was that like for you? Because I think the only person you told that this was not real was, like, your best friend. Did anybody else know?
- [05:29]
A
Nobody else knew other than my best friend, my brother, and my mom. But you bring up a great point, which is, oh, my gosh, Josh Must be trolling people. And to be fair, Jillian, anyone claiming to be trans is trolling people. Anyone to be claiming to be trans is pretending and is a faker. And that was in fact the whole point. I was trying to prove to the world that at the end of the day, anyone who claims to be a trans woman is just a man in costume that is faking and trolling people. And I was trying to show why it's so dangerous to buy into this. Because anybody, especially the most unscrupulous people in society, can claim to be a trans woman and then they automatically get access to women's only spaces. And so, yes, I was faking it and I was trolling, but so is every single person out there that claims
- [06:20]
B
to be trans to be truthful. Somebody like Blair White, I don't know. Are you familiar at all with Blaire White? Somebody like Blaire White wouldn't really freak me out at all in a, in a gym locker room. I'll be honest, I would diverge from your position there and just say, listen, I don't care what adults do in their bedroom, and I'll call you whatever pronoun you want. And I personally wouldn't mind transitioning to look like what Blair looks like. But having said that, this has been such a serious issue for me because of all the reasons you just list, anybody, any predator can just say I'm trans. And they're not just going into girls sports, they're not just going into girls locker rooms. They're going into women's prisons, Josh. And they don't even have to have any surgery. They don't have to be on puberty blockers, they don't have to be on cross sex hormones. They simply say, yeah, no, I identify as a female and they're going into women's prisons, obviously, you know, in California, because that's where this is happening. It's the craziest thing in the world. And women are being r ped and they can't escape. And it is truly horrific and dystopian. So I wonder, what was it that made you take on this particular issue, first off, in the culture war? Is it, Is it things like that?
- [07:46]
A
Yeah, it is exactly that. And also I have nieces and nephews, so I have seven year old twin boy and girl and then a nine year old girl. And at the time two years ago, when I did the trans troll that you were talking about, they were five and seven years old. And I was seen on YouTube ads targeted for kids that were my nieces and nephews age things with, they were cartoons with non binary and trans characters. And just in general, this propaganda of gender ideology. And that is when I drew the line. And I said, enough is enough. I am not going to have my young nieces and nephews targeted with this. If adults want to walk around in cross dress, we have seen that for decades. Nobody cares what you want to do. If you want to cross dress and do that in your house or even in an alley somewhere or wherever you want to do it, we don't care. But you are not going to force us to participate or our children to participate in this. And you are not going to force us to affirm something that is false and that goes against reality. And so it was really there requirement that we participate in this false reality and that our kids learn about it and affirm it. That made me draw the line. And I said, you know what, I'm going to take this on because I don't just see it as a culture war, Jillian. I see it as a spiritual war. And I really do believe that there are dark demonic forces at work here and that the best thing we can do is let truth and let facts guide us. And so I said, you know what, enough of this subjectivity. If someone, if a man wants to claim to be a woman, then they're a woman. No, we need to start sticking by facts. Because as you said, there are some exceptions to the rule, like Buck angel and Blair White, where there are some people that probably feel more comfortable identifying as the opposite sex. But it has gone to far. And at some point we have to draw the line and say, you know what, this is going to hurt some people. But there are some basic rudimentary truths in this world and we need to start drawing the lines. Because right now there are male predators, as you said, in women's prisons, raping women. And there are men going into women's bathrooms and assaulting women. And so at some point we just have to say, you know what? We need to start acknowledging the truth. And for me, that was kind of the tipping point.
- [10:18]
B
For me it's interesting because when I watch the Democrats try to defend it. Have you ever noticed that people like Newsom do really try to defend it? They just sort of blow it off as though it's a very nominal portion of the population. Oh, why, you know, why you gotta bring this up? It's just such a small group of people. And I've had to think about that myself, like what was it about this issue? Cause this is probably one of the key issues that made decide the left is just beyond reproach. They're untenable. There's no coming back from this position. And I had to really comprehend the fact that it's putting our most vulnerable at risk, like women in prisons who can't escape, or children transing kids, sterilizing children, creating permanent sexual dysfunction, potential brain damage, bone density problems. And I just thought, okay, I don't care if it's one kid or it's 100 kids. One kid is too many kids. And the last thing was the fact that it also felt so totally unhinged and so totally crazy that if we let it slide, I couldn't even comprehend what other floodgates it would open. Like, if we all went along with this lie, as you're talking about, where does that move the Overton Window? Do you feel like the left is coming around at all, or do you feel they're crazier than ever?
- [12:04]
A
No, I feel like it's getting worse. So my dad and mom homeschooled me and my two older brothers our entire lives. I was homeschooled my entire life until college. My brothers were yanked out of elementary school in the second and fourth grades in 1991 and homeschooled because even in 1991, they were being sent home with material that my parents thought was what we would describe as woke. Now, it was not appropriate. And so my dad used to say back in the early 90s, you give these people an inch, they will take a mile. Well, Jillian, they have taken about 200 miles. And this thing has become ridiculous. It has reached absurd proportions. And that is what I try to show through my satire, is I use reductio ad absurdum to take the premise that men can become women by magically uttering two words. And I try to show the absurd results or conclusions that will flow from that. And so, as you said, one child is too many. And the Overton window has shifted, and this has reached absurd proportions. There is a whole movement now called let tomboys be tomboys. And the genesis of that movement was that there are thousands of young girls that are tomboys that are being told by parents and medical professionals that they might be trans. We all know the suggestibility and impressionability and malleability that young children have. I don't have to go on about it. And so when you suggest something to a young child of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old and tell them, oh, well, you might be trans, that is going to cause all of those children to start Contemplating that because trusted adults are telling them that. And so that is what I find so pernicious about this movement, is that there are young children that just don't fit into traditional boxes with their interests or the way they dressed. And this stuff is being piggybacked in and suggested to these children. And so we have no clue how many thousands or tens of thousands of kids have been confused by these adults with Munchausen syndrome by proxy, because that is what they have that, as you said, are transing these kids. And I will give one example. I have a niece, a different niece, that has depression and anxiety and has struggled with mental health issues, as did I in the early 2000s when I was a teenager. And we both have struggled, as millions of people do, with depression and anxiety. I was told that I should correct my faulty thinking because I was given cognitive behavioral therapy which corrects faulty thinking. She was. Her faulty thinking was affirmed and indulged, and she now identifies as trans. And so I saw what happened to my young niece, this girl who was vulnerable and confused, and she was convinced by adults and medical professionals that she was probably trans. And now she is medically transitioning and says she is a man. And so I take this very personally because I don't know how many tens of thousands of other young confused kids out there have gone down that same route. And I thank God every day that these sick adults weren't around when I was struggling with depression and anxiety. And I was confused because I might have thought that the panacea or the solution was that I was born in the wrong body. So this is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed in encouraging and affirming delusions and faulty thinking. It's not medically right. It's actually definitionally medically negligent.
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B
I didn't know, actually that this touched your family. That's the first time I've heard that. What has this done within your family? Because I imagine that your niece must be furious and that your sibling, either your sister or your brother, who's that child's parent, are they mad at you? Like, what has this done within the family dynamic?
- [16:35]
A
That's a great question. So this is my brother's stepdaughter. I have not talked to my brother in five years because his wife, who is the parents. Parent of this child, is an addict and has addiction issues and obviously has munch housing syndrome by proxy. And so I don't talk to him. So I don't know what they think. But the reason I feel so right in What I do, despite how certain family members might feel about me, is because I know I have truth on my side. And, Jillian, when you have truth on your side, as you already know, you don't care if you offend people. You don't care if people get mad at you. Because our litmus test for what we do is not having people like us. Unlike the left, we don't care about virtue signaling. We don't care about people telling us how amazing and kind we are. The only kind thing to do when people are confused and when people are deluded is to hit them with the truth. And what's so sad is that you can't do that when there's not a free marketplace of ideas. You can only elucidate and crystallize the truth when you have an open dialogue in a free marketplace of ideas. And that is why the left is hell bent on shutting down that marketplace of ideas. And I think we saw the apotheosis of that with Charlie Kirk and with him being. Because they know. They know that the antidote to everything they do is this open dialogue, this open dialectic. And they will do everything they can to shut it down. Because lies can only live and succeed when there's not open discussion.
- [18:22]
B
You know, Dave Rubin recently had me watch this clip of Jordan Peterson talking about how if you tell the truth, you'll go on the adventure of a lifetime.
- [18:36]
A
If you say the truth and nothing else, you'll have an immense adventure as a consequence. You won't know what's going to happen to you, and you have to let go of your clinging to the outcome. You have to let go, but the truth will reveal the world the way it's intended to be revealed. And the consequence for you will be that you'll have the adventure of your life. And the other part of that ethos is this. And it makes perfect sense to me. I can't see how it can be any other way, which is that whatever makes itself manifest as a consequence of the truth is the best possible reality that could be manifest, even if you can't see it.
- [19:20]
B
And that really struck me, Josh, because it doesn't suggest it's like the path to salvation. It doesn't say it's gonna set you free. It doesn't say if you build it, don't worry, they're gonna come, they're gonna have your back. It basically says it's gonna be the adventure of a lifetime. And, man, you know, from. From my perspective, it has been. It has been the adventure of a lifetime. And there has been a lot of attacks, a lot of ups and a lot of downs. But I just think when the death threats come and the cancellation comes and this sponsor pulls out and that job cancels, I'm like, you know what? On my deathbed, I am not going to regret any of it. I won't regret any of it. And I'll stand by everything I did and everything I said because I know it was the right thing to do. What has that adventure, I'm just curious, been like for you? Because I imagine you must swim in threats. And I can't even believe your Instagram's still up. I can't believe it, actually. I'm shocked. So I'm just curious, what the hell have you been through, putting your life on the line, quite literally, to confront these matters?
- [20:31]
A
Well, that's a great question. And like you, the only regret I would have is if I indulge duplicity, I indulge these ridiculous lies. And I went along with something that was terrible and pernicious, like child mutilation. You know, I can think of a movement in the 1940s where people were convinced to go along with something in Europe that was horrible. And a lot of them went along with it because it earned them the approval of their neighbors. And it got. You know, it was something that was countenanced by everybody around them. And I don't think those people on their deathbed felt very well. And so, like you, I can sleep easy at night because I know I have truth on my side, and I know I'm not going along with a child mutilation movement, which is what this is. It is no different than what the experimental stuff that Dr. Mangali did with the Nazis in the 1940s in concentration camps. And that is why a lot of it is being shut down now by the Trump administrations. And these hospitals are no longer allowed to do these experimental surgeries on children. So I do, Jillian, get a lot of death threats. I do get a lot of vitriol and a lot of animus from people that don't like what I do. But actually, the support is tenfold of that. It is overwhelming. And I would say that my DMs are 90% positive. Josh, thank you. What you did has woken me up. My whole family loves you. All me and all of my co workers at my workplace love you. We share your videos. And I think the reason why I get more positive feedback than negative, Jillian, is because what I do is infused with hilarity and humor in comedy. And so I think that is what sets me apart from a million other content creators, is that I am very silly. And I know that. And that's kind of my hook. I'm a silly, silly, goofy person, and I think that endears me to people, but I think it helps my point get across even better. And so I can. You can sit there and try to debate the left for hours and you're not going to get anywhere. And I genuinely believe that a 30 second humorous video that is satire can just as effectively prove a point, is trying to debate these people. And so that is why I have completely stopped, stepped away from trying to have a serious discussion with some of these people. And I'm like, I'm just gonna use humor to show how ridiculous these people are and to hold a mirror up to their movement. Hello? Hello, ma'.
- [23:22]
B
Am.
- [23:24]
A
Is that your car in the garage? Yeah, I was just taking in my groceries.
- [23:28]
B
Oh, my God.
- [23:29]
A
Two black guys just ran off with a stereo system down the alley from your car.
- [23:35]
B
What?
- [23:35]
A
Yeah, just now. Do you want me to call the police? Well, yeah, okay. You do? Yeah. So are you not gonna call them? Really? Yeah. God, you people are you, but not the police when you need them. Right. And so I think because of how silly I am, I get mostly all support when I'm out in public and people recognize me. I have never had one negative interaction. It has all been positive interactions. And so I'm very grateful because I do know there's people like Nick Shirley and Cam Higby and others who do get a lot of hate. And fortunately I don't, but if I did, it wouldn't change anything. I know that these demonic. Again, we're not in a culture war, we're in a spiritual war. And so I know these demonic forces freak out when they're confronted with the truth. So when the vitriol does come at me, I just take that as a sign that I'm speaking the truth and that's why they're freaking out like that.
- [24:42]
B
You know, you use the term demonic forces and there was a real long time that I would have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, like code word, you know, evil. Bad people do bad things, and we all have the capacity for bad things. And I would have written off the literal aspect of that word. Demonic. I'm now at a place and I'm totally agnostic. I don't subscribe to any particular religion, you know, but I am now at a place. I watched a guy on Instagram and I forget. I cannot remember his Name. He has a huge following and he's a Christian. Huge following. David Harris Jr. Reposts him all the time. And he was talking about how in the Bible it says that there's going to come a time where evil is going to be considered good and good is going to be considered evil. And in that moment, Josh, I was like, that's exactly what's happening right now. That is exactly what we are living now. I don't know if it's biblical, I don't know what it is. But up is down and you know, right is left and white is black. I mean it is just an inverted reality that sometimes leave me, leaves me thinking like I must have fallen asleep and you know, somewhere around, I don't know, like 2016 and at any given moment I'm going to wake up and go, holy. How I had the craziest dream. Do you remember when the world was normal? You say that your parents saw this in 91? Honestly, I didn't really see this until 2019 with the whole body positivity thing and then the COVID crazy. And that opened the floodgates for me. How long have you been experiencing the world as unhinged and demonic in this fashion? I'm just, I'm just curious.
- [26:39]
A
So my journey parallels yours. It was around 2020 with the lockdowns when I started to see this bent towards fascist behavior and trying to lock us in our homes. And then especially with the George Floyd when I saw millions of people celebrating this drugged out junkie that was a violent felon that became a celebrated hero because he fought the cops until he died. I thought we are living in a clown world. So it was really around the 2020, 2021. And then with the violent protests that followed the George Floyd incident where they were burning down towns and the Democrats were encouraging all of this violent behavior, I was like, okay, as you said, we're living in this weird inverted world where criminals are good people, cops are bad people, men or women. What is going on? And it really did feel Orwellian, right? Where words just have the opposite meaning. It was like a modern day news speak or a modern day double speak. So I am very grateful that my parents saw it as early as the 90s. It obviously wasn't as bad back then, but I really woke up around 2021 and that's when I saw that, you know, we're living in a clown world. And I knew the only way I could take it on was was by kind of holding a mirror up to it and hoping that people. Other people would see that. Yeah, you know what? We are kind of living in a. In a clown world.
- [28:11]
B
I see. I could look at the George Floyd situation and say, listen, George Floyd was a deeply disturbed person. You know, I certainly would say that the black community has many other people they could elevate as heroes simultaneously. I watched the video. It was disturbing. Nobody wants that man to die. And I appreciate the fact that there is a historical wound and hurt and depth of pain and suffering there. That does not mean you get to burn down cities. And do you remember when the mayor of Atlanta, I think her name is, like, Keisha Lance Bottoms. I don't know if you remember this woman. She was black. She is. Was black. She is black. And at that time, she came out, came to the podium, and she basically said to the people in Atlanta, she's like, what the hell are you guys doing? This is our city. Like, this is like the black person's New York. What are you. You're burning down your own city? And I remember thinking, that woman's a rock star. Who is that woman? And instead of Joe Biden picking her to be the vice president, which was, like, truly a voice of reason, somebody reaching across the aisle, somebody who could call balls and strikes, we got Harris, who was the exact opposite. And then all of that, like, violence and vitriol and chaos in the streets until Seattle, and they took over downtown Seattle. And I'm sitting at home going, hold on a second. There's no part of being a liberal that is for violence and for radicals taking over the cities. And the mayor of Seattle goes, it's the summer of love. And all of a sudden, Josh, as Trump is saying, this is crazy. You've got to send in the National Guard. The man that I thought was the most disgusting human being on the planet, by the way. I wasn't operating with all of the facts. I believed Russia, Russia, Russia. I believed all that stuff at this time is making way more sense to me than my own party. And that was another key moment for me. What you're describing, where it was like, up is down, right is wrong. And I kept thinking, this is gonna, like, self correct. This is going to, you know, find its equilibrium, and we're gonna come back to balance, and we never have. And, you know, you talk about this, I guess the strategy tactic that you learned in law school, I'm gonna butcher it. But the absurd one. Will you elaborate on this? You went to law school. You referenced it briefly in the beginning of the interview. And I forgot how to Frickin pronounce it. But you're utilizing this tactic to expose all of that. Can you elaborate on what that is and what it looks like for anybody who hasn't seen you? Even though I'll put clips of it in real time when you go into the streets and you deal with this stuff.
- [31:11]
A
Yeah, so great point. So I use reductio ad absurdum, which is you take a premise proposed by somebody and you draw it out to its logical or illogical conclusion. And so what I do, instead of putting on lipstick in an earring and saying, I'm a woman now, I put on an Indian headdress in war paint and say, I'm trans indigenous now. And I go by walking Tomahawk. I'm trans indigenous. Trans indigenous. Are you, are you CIS American? I'm trans indigenous. For ice. We love ice. We love ice. We love ice. To port them all. You're all trespassers on our land. Well, trans indigenous people are indigenous people and you're all trespassers on our land. And we want Bovino to deport all of you guys. We love ice. Trans natives love ice. We love you, ice. What nation are we love ice. The trans nation. Trans nation is just as valid as CIS nations. You're not trans natophobic, are you? No, but okay, I'm just checking. You're a CIS American. I'm trans indigenous. You really need to check your privilege because you're talking to a beautiful trans indigenous person of color right now.
- [32:31]
B
I believe that I am. I'm hoping to learn more about about your person.
- [32:35]
A
I'll educate you because you're CIS pigmented and I'm trans pigmented and I'm trying to educate you. My name's Walking Tomahawk and by doing that, I am showing. Where does this stop? Where do we draw the line in the sand? If our gender, which you know is just it's verbal ledger domain, their gender is an irrelevant fiction that was invented by people decades ago. All that matters are biological reality realities. But assuming arguendo, we're gonna say that gender is not a binary, it's a spectrum. Well, surely then our skin isn't a binary. Our skin definitionally is a spectrum. It's a color gradient. And so if you can identify as a different sex or gender, whatever medical nomenclature you want to use, I'll identify as a different race. And as soon as I put on the Indian headdress, Jillian in the war paint, people go, well, that's ridiculous. And so that is a prime example. That is the quintessential reductio ad absurdum, which is kind of leading these people to water and getting them to understand how stupid it is. And, you know, going back to your prior point, where have we fallen as a society when we're encouraging this kind of barbaric, troglodytic, regressive behavior where we go out and burn down our cities? You spoke of the mayor of Atlanta. One of my heroes who is similar is Thomas Soule, who was a black intellectual, one of the most brilliant minds ever. And Thomas Soule is my inspiration. And he wrote a book called Black Rednecks, White Liberals. And what it talks about is how white liberals try to get people en masse, but mostly people in African American community, to adopt this regressive behavior of white rednecks in the 1930s, 40s and 50s. And he talks about how there is nothing noble about encouraging people to act like rednecks or to act like these barbaric people in the streets and to become violent. He that is not productive. And these white liberals, Thomas Sowell argues and proves they're just hurting you. Anyone who truly cares about you is going to give you the tools to become successful. They're going to tell you what is going to make you successful in this country that is the greatest country on earth. The whole reason I do what I do, Jillian, is because I love America. I believe in America. I believe and internalize America's founding edicts. That is, this is the American dream and we can literally pull ourselves up from our bootstraps and become anything we want. And I was born into a very lower class family. My father was a printer and we were, you know, very, very poor growing up. And I have since through hard work and being an industrious person who believed in the American dream and applied himself every day, I have become one of the most watched political creators on earth. That is now sitting with Jillian Michaels and talking to her in an interview. And the only way I got here and I'm able to speak to you today, J. Jillian, is because I was given tools. I was told what could make me successful. And I see the antithesis of that. I see the opposite of that with these white liberals that Thomas Soule was talking about 40 years ago. And what they're doing, it is. It truly is unforgivable. It's terrible that they're encouraging people to do things that they know is going to land them either in a prison or get them in trouble with the law. And I don't know why they do it, Jillian. The only Thing I can think of is liberals love it when people are dependent on them for anything. And they don't want us to be self sufficient, they don't want us to become successful because if we are sufficient and self successful, we won't need Democrats. And so they keep trying to convince everybody that we are nothing but victims, that we can't become anything, that the system stacked against us. And I think at the end of the day, Jillian, there's not some huge conspiracy, it's not some secret cabal. It's very simple. They know if we're self sufficient, we're not going to need them and we're not going to need handouts. So they do everything they can to convince us that we're nothing but a bunch of victims and to make us dependent on them. And it's really sad. You see what's going on in California. I think that is a microcosm of that belief and that it's kind of living itself out.
- [37:17]
B
Yeah. You know, I'm searching my soul as you're talking because I was a lifelong liberal. And what I mean by that, I do think there is a very important distinction to make is that, you know, a classical liberal was not the woke progressives that you're seeing today. This is, there's no universe where, you know, Clinton was advocating for open borders, late term abortions, transing children. Like that party has become unrecognizable to me. But as a classic liberal, I do remember Josh, you know, my wife, who is a staunch conservative and has been her entire life when we met in 2018, and she's like, you know, oh, you think you're the party of tolerance. You guys are the most judgmental, you know, you're the least tolerant. And I thought she was crazy. I thought we were the good guys. And I was like, what do you mean? Like we're, we're, we're, we're the good guys, we're the tolerant ones. We're, we're for, you know, we're empathetic. And I truly thought, I really did, that we held the moral high ground until my whole world came crashing down. And I, you know, yes, the left changed dramatically and quickly, but, but I was also exposed to so much of the hypocrisy of the left that you're talking about where it would infantilize people and it would make them victims. And I saw it with my work where it's like, oh no, no, no, listen, you know, it's okay that you're 300 pounds and you're gonna die of type 2 diabetes and heart disease and cancer. Don't. That's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. And that's when I started to see for the first time, the fact that it's like, okay, if we make these people victims, they're gonna love us. Cause we're validating their deepest, darkest concerns, and we're taking away any responsibility that they might hold, but in doing so. Right. So it's like, oh, thank God I don't have to hate myself for this or judge myself for this, which. Which they shouldn't. But that's not the point. If you make them a victim, they're never capable of taking responsibility. Like you're saying. They're never capable of. Of rising up and achieving any degree that they want, getting any job that they want, being as healthy as they want, having the love that they want. You're absolutely right. When we strip them of their agency, they're fundamentally enslaved. Did you always see that? Or, like, is that, like, was your family conservative? I'm just trying to figure out, like, how was I so late to this party? Were you ever a liberal? Did you move more to the right? Or have you always kind of been where you're at now?
- [40:08]
A
No, I definitely oscillated. So I was conservative when I was done being homeschooled, obviously, because every day my dad was listening to Rush Limbaugh anytime we were in the car. So I grew up with that from a very young age and Sean Hannity and all these other people. But then when I went off to a liberal arts college, the University of Illinois, I started reading Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and I became kind of brainwashed in this utopia. This, you know, that things that in theory sound great, but later on, as you get older, you realize they play out a little different in reality. And so I became liberal in undergrad, more liberal when I got my Juris Doctor in law school, because I was doing criminal defense work. And so you're defending these people, that most of them are guilty of the crime that they were accused of. And then after law school, it took about five years in that 20, 20, 2021 period we talked about earlier, where I shifted dramatically back to the right. And it's interesting, Gillian, because you touched on the fact that, you know, they've really switched places, places, the left and the right. In the early 90s, the left claimed and did, in fact, seem to be all about diversity, tolerance, love, and kindness. They used to rail against and preach against the morality police, specifically of the Religious right and focus on the family. And they'd say, look, stop being the reality plate police. Stay out of our lives. The everyone has a right to live their own life and to do what makes them happy so long as they're not harming anyone else. And to a lot of us, that resonated and that made sense. And we said, you know what, that actually sounds good. Fast forward 30 years, Jillian. Now the left are the morality police. The left want a homogenous society where there is no diversity. No one can say. There's kind of this omerto where no one is allowed to say, speak or say anything that goes against the official narrative. There is no diversity of opinion. They don't want any of it. And they are constantly telling us they're not just the morality police. They're telling us what words we can use. They're telling us what language we can use. They're changing the definitions of words and language. They're trying to cancel us, get us fired and ruin our lives and alienate us from our social groups. If we say that men are men and that men aren't women, they have become the left has become everything they hated in the 90s, which is the morality police on steroids. And I think lots of people like you and me are sick of it. And we truly did like what they stood for, this classical liberalism that you talked about of let everyone do what makes them happy so long as they're not harming anyone. And sadly, the left no longer stands for that. And what the right talks about is much more congruent with those principles. And I think that's why me and you, Jillian and your wife find ourselves sitting decidedly on the right now because they have kind of switched places.
- [43:26]
B
You're spot on, Josh. You're spot on. Did you see in the frickin news? Because there's been a lot in the news this week that apparently lawmakers in New York want to get rid of the term mother and father and change it to like gestating parent and non gestating parent. And I swear to you, I think they said they were going to make it illegal to use those terms, which I don't even, I can't even comprehend because it's literally the First Amendment in the Constitution, the one that like, we all know about and then a lot of us know about like 2 and 3, and then we sort of get lost beyond that. And we've heard a little bit about, you know, 14 with birthright citizenship, but everybody knows, number one, everybody knows the freedom of speech bit. So the fact that they're going to outlaw the term mother and father, they're going to try to is insane. And when they cornered Kathy Hochul about it, she's like, well, I don't know, I haven't looked at it. And of course, you know, was like dodging bullets like Neo in the Matrix. And I just, I'm like, when do you stop? Like, when do you guys get the hint? Nobody wants this. And then they point at Trump. And I'm starting to think, I really am, that so much of this is a projection, you know, oh, he's a fascist. And I'm like, actually, listen, Trump is far from perfect. There's a lot he does that I don't love. But he's the farthest thing from a fascist. But what does feel fascistic is you telling me it's going to be illegal to say mother and father in the state of New York. Where do we go from here, Josh? Because Hochul. And I know, I could see in her eyes that she's like, this shit is crazy and I have a communist for the mayor of my biggest city in my state. But, like, I have to go along with it. Where do we go from here? Because they're not pushing back. They're embracing Grant Platner. They're frickin'. They're campaigning with Hasan Piker. Like they are all in on crazy and we may lose the midterms. What do we do?
- [45:43]
A
Well, that's a tall order at its core. You know, hopeful. Doesn't even think that black people know what a laptop is. So that kind of shows how regressive this ideology is and how regressive and troglodytic the people within this ideology are. And so, you know, yeah, with the gestating and non gestating parent thing, again, just trying to police the language that we can use, which is inherently anti First Amendment. And it is because of my love for the First Amendment that I do what I do. And I saw the writing on the wall with the left that they're trying to basically creep in on the First Amendment and just keep trying to test and see what they could do to kind of get this attrition going on the First Amendment. And that's when I said, hey, like you, Jillian, I said, you guys are starting to look like the fascists here. And so what is the antidote to this? How can we fight back against this? Again, I would just say with open discussion and dialogue. If you look at the gestating and non gestating proposition that they're doing in New York. There has been such a backlash against it with people saying, this is absolutely ridiculous. It's offensive to women. It's offensive to mothers. You're erasing women by claiming to stand for women. You're inherently anti feminist while claiming to be feminists. It is. I think open dialogue is the best cure for this and the best remedy for it. And I think social media is great because there's people like me and you on social media that can kind of bring topics like this to the public and say, hey, this is what they're trying to do in New York. They're trying to get rid of the word mother. And so I think that social media has a very democratizing effect. It allows. It takes away the stranglehold and the monopoly that the media, especially the mainstream media, had on truth and dialogue in that Overton window. And I think it has been extremely democratizing. So I think it is people like us, not just people with millions of followers, but people with a hundred followers. It doesn't matter who you are, but as an aggregate, all of us speaking up on social media and calling things out like this and saying, you know what? This is offensive. This is disgusting. And I take umbrage at it. And the terms mother and father were invented for a reason because they're rooted in biological realities. And we are no longer going to play this subjective, stupid game that you guys are trying to play. And you can believe whatever you want, but you're not going to force us to participate in it. And so I do believe it takes all of us speaking up on social media. And I think that can. That is our only cure for this nonsense. I can't think of anything else. You know, the one thing that comes to mind is Donald Trump declaring that there was, you know, only two genders, that the fact that it took a reality star that became president to speak some truth into the world and tell people, hey, knock off this nonsense. It's kind of a sad indictment on the shallow intellectual waters we're treading these days. But I do think that all of us speaking up is going to be the answer to. To our way of fighting back.
- [49:10]
B
Josh, if I was to play devil's advocate here, I want to know how you would respond, because I see this coming out of the mouths of people on the left, people that I like, people that I respect, and they literally think Trump is taking away the First Amendment. And I'm going, but did you see they were deplatforming people on social media? Did You. Are you seeing that people are getting booted off of TikTok and this one and that one, and Shadow banned. And, you know, now there's clips I could show you, a montage of everybody from John Kerry to Hillary Clinton to the COVID of Time magazine talking about how we may need to rethink the First Amendment, over people questioning whether or not newborns needed a COVID vaccine or whether it came from a lab in Wuhan. Like, somehow they forgot all of that. And they just see things like, you know, Jimmy Kimmel getting suspended for a week over making jokes about Charlie Kirk's assassination or the fact that he's suing all these major media companies. And to them, they somehow. And listen, some of those lawsuits, I think, are justified. Some of them, I think, are punitive. You know, like I said, I could look at Trump and be like, ugh, I don't like that. That. Wish he didn't do that. Really, really like that. But then when I put him up and Harris and Biden up, I'm like, nope, nope, better, worse. He's gonna win for me every time to this day. But they don't see it. So if I said, you will, Donald Trump, he's engaged in familial corruption. Donald Trump, he goes after his political enemies and he weaponizes the doj. You guys are the ones that are blind to all of this. How do you respond to that? Because they look at us like we have three heads. How do you respond to them in that moment?
- [51:09]
A
Yeah. So if it were a competition between who's trying to censor and suppress free speech the most, the Democrats would get first place. All you have to do is look at what Mark Zuckerberg just said a year ago. He said that the Biden administration was pressuring Meta and obviously they own Instagram to censor anyone who said anything negative about the COVID vaccine. It was also revealed that Jack Dorsey, the owner of what was Twitter at the time, was being pressured by the Biden administration to de platform and delete accounts that were saying things that were going against the official Biden narrative. We now know that Google admitted just a few months ago through their top lawyer, that they were being pressured through Google and They also own YouTube to delete content creators and clips that went against what the Biden administration was the official narrative. So if there is anyone carrying out this kind of Orwellian Big Brother thing that everyone talks about and says they're scared of, it wasn't Trump. It was the Biden administration, and before it, the Obama administration. Weaponized the DOJ and did a lot of things with surveillance when it came to telecommunication companies in recent reading private messages and listening in on phone calls, there were whole lawsuits about it. Edward Snowden is still in hiding because of what the Obama administration did. And so it's not even a contest. Most of the attacks against Trump are not based in reality or based on something he did. It's just a general dislike for his disposition or the way he talks or the things he says, which they don't like. But if we're really going to actually look at facts and look at reality, I'd say the Biden administration and the Obama administration take the cake on censoring free speech.
- [53:01]
B
Totally forgot all that stuff with Obama. How crazy that I just somehow deleted that from the recesses of my memory until you rebooted it for me just now. And it's entirely possible that I didn't pay attention when Obama was president. I thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well spoken, good looking, went to law school. I was like, look how far we've come, baby. We've got a black first family. And I just thought it was the best. And I don't think Josh, you know, at that time I was just focused on selling workout videos. There was nothing to be alarmed, but I was not paying attention. And then guests like yourself come on. Or I just recently had Victor Davis Hansen on that. Remind me about how Obama blew Libya to smithereens for seven months at a time with no deliberate targets. And did I even take note of that? Like, it didn't even register. I have gone back into the annals of presidential history to surface the clips of Bill Clinton and Obama and Hillary Clinton talking about the necessity of closing the borders. But the things that you bring up, it's amazing. It's amazing how short our memory is. I want to ask you, because one of the things that you do so brilliantly is the whole transracial, trans, indigenous. I'm Native American, I'm black. And, you know, I had thought, I'll be honest, that when we got Obama as a president, I really was like, we are on our way as a culture. Like, we're gonna leave this behind us. We're getting to the whole, like, one race human. And. And this labeling and racial tension is a thing of the past. And it's no longer like, you know, just the Cosby show with black people on TV and no black friends in the Friends show. Like, I thought that, like, we were. We were done, and now it's worse than ever. And personally, I experience it as the left racializing every dirty deed in order to deflect, like voter id. Like, you brought up Hochul in the computer. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Don't worry about the fact that California has gone from a 48 hour certification window in 2014 to 38 days and that we could probably fix a lot of that with voter id, but that that would be racist. And if you question it, you are of course a racist. What do you experience when you play this whole transracial game? Because the videos I've seen, they actually get like furious with you. Even when you hide the person you're talking to, you hear that the rage come up for them. Like, do you think we've backslid? What is your experience of this?
- [56:06]
A
That's such a good question. We've absolutely backslid. Like, with most things that the left tries to fix, they end up just bungling it and making it a thousand times worse. Who would have thought that obsessively talking about people's identities and skin color would make things worse than when we just saw people as humans? Well, the left decided let's obsessively talk about and fetishize people's skin color. And so obviously Josh Cider has to come in and do reductio out of sertum and take it to the nth degree and show everyone how ridiculous the state of identity politics has gotten. Guys, it happened again. I was out minding my own business, not bothering anybody, and I got mispigmented. I was at the Dollar Tree, I was picking up some wave caps for the 360 waves I'm growing out and the sky behind me is like, I didn't know white guys needed those things. And I said, excuse me, bigot, did you just dead skin me? And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, what am I talking about? I was assigned white at birth by a doctor, but I identify as a black man. And this whole time the cashier's just kind of standing there. I'm like, are you not gonna say anything to this racist? She's like, sir, he's an actual black man. I said, actual black man. Do you understand how harmful those words are to trans pigmented people like me? You know? And it's just like, how many black identifying white guys are gonna have to suffer until people just start doing the right thing and affirming our identity? You know, I'm not very old, but I'm old enough to remember when identity politics was a big, bad, dirty word that the right was accused of. You remember the Willie Horton ad with the first George Bush. And that's when it kind of first came into common parlance was this identity politics of trying to racialize things. Well, as you so brilliantly just pointed out, the left now racializes everything. I mean, IDs are racist now. There is not computers or laptops are racist. There is is nothing that's not racist when it comes to the deranged left. And so yes, they have made things a thousand times worse like they always do. And we need to just start seeing people as human beings. What your orientation is, doesn't matter. What your skin color is doesn't matter. As long as you're just a good human being, 99.9% of the world's gonna like you that you interact with. And there will always be out outliers. There will always be people that don't like me because I'm ethnically and culturally Jewish. There will always be people that don't like you and your wife because you're in a same sex relationship. There will always be people that don't like my uncles because my uncles are gay. But those are the outliers. Most people we like people that are just good, kind human beings. But what the left does is it says it doesn't matter. Your character. Well, let's invert everything. MLK said the content of your character doesn't matter. All that matters is your skin color. And so the left has really run with an inverted MLK narrative and has turned everything, as you said earlier, upside down. So now your character doesn't matter, only your skin color doesn't. So we truly do live in an inverted world. And yes, they have made everything worse. And that is why I do the transracial character to show everyone how stupid gender ideology is and how stupid notating people's skin color is. Just be a good human being.
- [59:55]
B
I didn't know you were Jewish until this moment. Can I ask you how are you experiencing the left when it comes to to Jews? And I just had this conversation with my friend Bhatia Ungar Sargon who wrote the book. She just wrote this book Jews and the left. And sure there's some people on the quote woke right are doing it and I will call that out of course just the same. But 77% of the left, this is according to my friend Bhatia is now like quote anti Zionist, which is like the new way of being anti Semitic when apparently being a Zionist just means you think that Israel has a right to exist. What is your take on this?
- [60:45]
A
Yeah, so the woke right, you bring up a great point. Is very similar and indistinguishable from the woke left. And there are many now that have joined the woke right, and they're both anti Semitic and they're odd bedfellows. It is the mutual hatred for Jews and Israel that aligns them much more than, you know, even the woke right is aligned with their own party. And so it's, you know, disturbing to see. I'm confused why the woke left and woke right are so mad at Israel. I thought borders were imaginary. I thought everyone was welcome on whatever land they wanted to go on. So what is the problem with Israelis taking land from Palestinians? If that's happening, let's assume arguendo it's happening. Hey, guys, borders are imaginary. So what's the problem? Are you racist? Is that why you don't want Israelis taking Palestinian land? So, yes, it has bled over, unfortunately, into the woke rate, which has become a problem. I had Trump's ambassador, Rabbi Kaplur, just called me a month ago. He is Trump's ambassador, ambassador on anti Semitism to combat anti Semitism and hate. And he reached out to me personally, who had a lovely phone call, and he wants me to join him and, you know, just correcting some of the misimpressions that are out there, that there's, you know, this secret Jewish cabal controlling everything, or as you said, Jillian, these people that think that Jews, Jews, they're using this very broad term, a responsible thing for all of society's ills. So, you know, it's become a problem. But I am a big believer in free speech. And even though I'm ethnically and culturally Jewish, because my maternal grandmother was born in present day Jerusalem, I am, I am, you know, I, I don't take it personally. I understand that people are going to believe what they want. We live in a, you know, constitutional republic that has free speech, something the left doesn't understand. And so these people are entitled to their opinions. Gillian, I think their opinions on Jews are wrong and on what constitutes Zionism is wrong. And if you're going to be true to what you preach and you're saying that borders are imaginary and this is specifically to anti Semites on the left, then you have to be okay with Israelis taking any Palestinian land that they want. So.
- [63:12]
B
So, oh, God, I didn't even think of flipping the argument around, but of course you would, because this is what you do. Is the. Say it again. Absurd. What the heck is it called again?
- [63:23]
A
Reductio ad absurdum.
- [63:27]
B
Reductio ad absurdum. I've got to cement that into my memory. Josh, you are an absolute treasure. Is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have?
- [63:38]
A
Well, thank you very much. I've been a fan of yours for about 20 years. So my brothers got me into fitness when I was 17 years old and I started going to Gold's Gym in Illinois and I used to see you on the TV all the time and I was like, she is beautiful. And so I'd always like pay attention and very, very into fitness and very knowledgeable and you're a diet and brilliant. And so I am just humbled to be here. So thank you so much for your kind words. I don't think there was anything you didn't ask me. This has been an amazing conversation and I thought you. You know, sometimes I get asked questions that are kind of these boilerplate questions that I get asked a million times, but I feel like we actually had an illuminating discussion for an hour and this was just absolutely amazing. So thank you.
- [64:27]
B
Well, I cannot thank you enough. And just so you know, I'm hero for a day. I have a 14 year old boy and there's a handful of heroes. There's Charlie Kirk, loves Tom McDonald, loves Jeff Dye, loves you. So he couldn't. Unfortunately he's in school. He couldn't be with me for this one. But Phoenix, buddy, this one is for you. And Josh, please consider me a friend called. Call on me for anything at any point and let everybody know where they can follow all of your fantastic work.
- [65:04]
A
Thank you Jillian. And hi Phoenix. You guys can follow me on Instagram @joshcyter and on Josh Cider underscore official and on X@joshcider
- [65:20]
B
and Josh, send me all of that guys, I will put it in the show notes. Thank you babe. Keep. Keep doing what you're doing, but for the love of God, you know, be safe.
- [65:32]
A
I will. Thank you so much for having me, Jillian. I appreciate it.
- [65:37]
B
Thank you so much. Honey, if there is anything that you don't like, anything you want in the show notes, just let me know and anything I can ever do to be helpful, please, you have my number. Like, consider me an ally and a friend.
- [65:54]
A
Thank you. Ditto. Text me anytime. And thank you so much for having me. And I'm sure this will only be the first of many times that we interact, so I hope so.
- [66:05]
B
I absolutely hope so. I'm going to do your intro now with. Oh and by the way, if there's one video in particular that's your favorite. Send me like a handful of the ones you love because we're going to chop them up and like put them in throughout the show and like put them into the intro. So if there's anyone, my favorite is the tampon headdress. But if there's, if there's anything that
- [66:28]
A
is your favorite, please forward it along
- [66:31]
B
to me and we'll put it in there. And I'm probably gonna get this up. I'll get it up for sure within the next two weeks. I just gotta get through now with this California craziness. So it'll go up within the next two weeks.
- [66:42]
A
Amazing. I tend to usually just let people. I don't like impinging on people's crazy creative, you know, ideas. And I think you whatever clips you like best and whatever you, however you want to introduce me or anything, please. You have full range to do all of that and I never take offense to anything. I'm very low maintenance, so I like seeing what people come up with when it comes to me. So I don't want to dictate anything. So.
- [67:10]
B
Okay. Well, I hope you will be pleasantly surprised and thank you again. So sweetheart, thank you.
- [67:17]
A
Bye.
- [67:18]
B
Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please, like comment, subscribe and share. And make sure to let me know what guests you want to see on in the future. This episode is brought to you by Google Health. Stop chasing someone else's definition of health. What matters is what's healthy for you. Google Health offers a new kind of coach built with Gemini for effortless tracking, sleep insights and holistic coaching tailored to you. Visit googlestore.com to learn more and start a new relationship with your health. Requires Google Account, Google Health app Internet and Google Health Premium subscription Features subject to change availability and results vary. Not intended for medical purposes. Works independently of Gemini apps. Check responses for accuracy.