Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Episode: Navy SEAL Warnings: The Truth About Bondi, Brown U, & The Terror Next Door – Carl Higbie
Date: December 17, 2025
Guest: Carl Higbie – former Navy SEAL, host of Newsmax’s Frontline, author of "Profiles in Freedom"
Overview
This episode dives into the intersecting issues of recent global terror attacks, radicalization, immigration, crime, and gun rights. Jillian Michaels and Carl Higbie discuss the Bondi Beach shooting in Australia, chilling campus violence at Brown University, the political fallout in the US and abroad, and the deeper societal questions over assimilation, Islamophobia, gun laws, and public safety. The conversation is raw, unflinching, and challenges listeners to move beyond polarizing labels in hope of understanding and action.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Terror at Bondi Beach & Patterns of Radicalization
- Recap of Events: Two gunmen (father and son) attacked Jewish families at a Hanukkah celebration on Bondi Beach, leaving 15 dead, 40 injured. The father was shot by police; the son is critically wounded ([01:21]).
- Radicalization: The son reportedly became radicalized over the past year while studying the Quran and Arabic in Australia ([12:53]), highlighting how even second-generation immigrants can become susceptible if integrating into insular sub-communities.
- Community Response:
- Higbie questions the lack of broad condemnation from the global Muslim community ([02:37]):
"Where is the wide condemnation from the Muslim community? ... Everybody who does is getting labeled an Islamophobe." – Carl Higbie ([02:37])
- Jillian plays a viral clip of Ahmed Al Ahmed, a Muslim man who disarmed one of the shooters, symbolizing the duality within the community ([04:22, 04:59]).
- Higbie questions the lack of broad condemnation from the global Muslim community ([02:37]):
2. Statistics & the Challenge of Islamophobia
- Radicalization Numbers:
- Citing Biden’s State Department, Higbie asserts “8–10% of Muslims are radicalized,” ready to commit violence ([05:54]).
- Jillian references Pew Research: “16–15% justify or sympathize with violence”; other intelligence estimates go higher ([06:09]).
- Public Debate:
- Michaels describes being called a “white nationalist” on Piers Morgan for bringing up these statistics ([06:54]), underscoring how charged and divisive the topic is:
"They both just called me a white nationalist. I got a black kid and a brown one ... But the reality is you can never just have an honest conversation." – Jillian Michaels ([07:19])
- Both agree radicalization is a minority, but the scale still means millions of potential extremists due to Islam’s size ([06:09]).
- Michaels describes being called a “white nationalist” on Piers Morgan for bringing up these statistics ([06:54]), underscoring how charged and divisive the topic is:
3. Assimilation, Immigration, and Cultural Tensions
- Assimilation Debate:
- Higbie recalls a CNN panel where a guest voiced concerns about “genital mutilation” and “living under Sharia law,” and contrasts the track records and assimilation patterns of white South African migrants versus others ([08:03–09:52]).
- Jillian Pushback:
- She argues that acceptance is not about skin color, but beliefs and behavior:
"It’s not about food and fashion. ... It’s about 'chants of death to America'" – Jillian Michaels ([09:52])
- She argues that acceptance is not about skin color, but beliefs and behavior:
4. Religious Texts and Violence
- Quranic Duality:
- Jillian describes reading the Quran at Carl’s suggestion, noting both peaceful verses and later “sword verses” that call for violence against non-believers ([11:46]).
- She expresses confusion over reconciling these polarities, emphasizing she's agnostic, with no agenda ([11:46]).
5. Wave of Recent Incidents and Security Policy
- Multiple Threats:
- Bondi attack, foiled Christmas market plots in Germany, Hamas weapons networks, and shootings in Virginia and LA from radicalized actors noted as evidence of a broader crisis ([17:40–18:38]).
- France cancelling New Year’s celebrations for fear of Islamic terrorism ([18:38]).
- Western Empathy vs. Security:
- Michaels laments the West’s “beautiful melting pot” is challenged by refusing to acknowledge radicalization, leading to polarization and risky policy inaction ([18:57, 19:35]).
6. Right-Wing Extremism and Crime Statistics
- Government Definitions:
- Higbie disputes official FBI statistics labeling the “alt-right” as the #1 terror threat, explaining the manipulation of data (e.g., categorizing illegal immigrants as “white” in arrest logs, inflating "white terrorism" numbers) ([23:42]).
- Domestic Terrorism Accusations:
- School board protests and conservative activism being labeled as “domestic terrorism” to paint an exaggerated threat ([24:48]).
7. Campus Violence and Security at Brown University
- Murder of Republican Club VP:
- Discussion of the killing, delayed suspect identification despite hundreds of cameras, and speculation about motives for targeting conservatives ([28:32–29:45]).
- Weapon-Free Zones:
- Brown University is a weapon-free campus, but incidents reveal students are “sitting ducks” ([38:43, 39:08]):
"Our banks are protected by armed guards ... Everybody’s protected by armed guards except for our children that are protected by a little stupid sign ... This is a gun free zone." – Carl Higbie ([40:35])
- Brown University is a weapon-free campus, but incidents reveal students are “sitting ducks” ([38:43, 39:08]):
8. Gun Rights, Gun Control & Law Enforcement
- Australian Gun Reform Critiqued:
- Higbie recounts Australia’s sweeping gun buybacks haven’t kept criminals from being armed, noting the increase in illegal guns ([33:24, 35:23]).
- Highlights how police failed to intervene decisively at Bondi, while a civilian (Ahmed Al Ahmed) did ([35:23]).
- Second Amendment Intent:
- Higbie frames gun rights as a bulwark against government tyranny, not just personal safety or hunting:
"The Second Amendment was designed to allow the American citizen to rise up and defeat their government should they become tyrannical." – Carl Higbie ([41:46])
- Higbie frames gun rights as a bulwark against government tyranny, not just personal safety or hunting:
- Defensive Use of Guns:
- Cites “50,000 acts of violence stopped annually by lawful gun owners,” with many cases never reported ([37:16]).
- Gun Free Zones:
- States 97% of mass shootings (3+ victims) occur in gun-free zones, making citizens more vulnerable, with children bearing the brunt ([40:35]).
- Background Checks & Mental Health:
- Michaels asks about the efficacy of background checks. Higbie supports them only if applied to all rights—voting included—cautioning that legislation post-tragedy tends to be reactive and ineffective ([45:07, 46:31]):
"Never shop when you’re hungry ... never legislate when you’re scared." – Carl Higbie ([46:43])
- Michaels asks about the efficacy of background checks. Higbie supports them only if applied to all rights—voting included—cautioning that legislation post-tragedy tends to be reactive and ineffective ([45:07, 46:31]):
9. Assimilation & Understanding Extremes
- Why Hate Spreads:
- Jillian shares concern that extreme anti-white rhetoric (from the left) could fuel pushback and drive youth toward actual white nationalism ([26:36, 28:32]).
- Higbie argues extremist voices amass followers because people feel dismissed or silenced, not truly understood ([25:57]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Honest Dialogue:
"You can never just have an honest conversation. Of course people are developing Islamophobia because they’re seeing this and they’re scared."
— Jillian Michaels ([07:19]) -
On the Purpose of the Second Amendment:
"The Second Amendment was designed to allow the American citizen to rise up and defeat their government should they become tyrannical like Great Britain did to the colonies."
— Carl Higbie ([41:46]) -
On Gun-Free Zones:
"All the same people that are like ‘gun control, gun control’ ... our government officials, our judges. Everybody’s protected by armed guards except for our children... 97% of recent shootings of more than three people...have been in gun free zones."
— Carl Higbie ([40:35]) -
On Motivation for Mass Shootings:
"There were no mass shootings at schools and kids brought their guns to school because hunting was like a part of culture back then … more guns don’t equal more crime."
— Carl Higbie ([41:46]) -
On Legislation After Tragedy:
"Never shop when you’re hungry ... never legislate when you’re scared ... Politicians legislate so they can stand there and … say, ‘look at what we did, it’s so good.’"
— Carl Higbie ([46:43]) -
On Enforcing New Laws:
"You have 68% of law enforcement officers in ... Connecticut that refuse to comply with that new law ... Not one arrest has been made in conjunction with that law."
— Carl Higbie ([47:41]) -
On the Scale of Radicalization:
"It's not the vast majority of Muslims. It's not. It's just that you have a very radicalized faction. And because Islam is so big, it's still a heck of a lot of people."
— Jillian Michaels ([21:16])
Important Timestamps
- [01:21-06:54]: Bondi Beach shooting facts, radicalization statistics, media reactions and Islamophobia charges
- [11:46-12:38]: Jillian on reading Quran, wrestling with violent verses and religious dualities
- [17:40-18:57]: List of recent terror-related incidents in Europe and US
- [23:42-25:34]: FBI stats, manipulation of crime and terrorism data, defining domestic terrorism
- [28:32-29:45]: Brown University shooting, conservative students as targets, campus security concerns
- [33:24-35:23]: Australia’s gun laws, effectiveness, and armed citizens versus criminals
- [37:16-38:16]: Examples of mass shootings stopped by lawful gun owners
- [40:35-41:25]: Gun-free zones, children’s vulnerability, calls for armed defense
- [41:46-43:23]: Second Amendment’s revolutionary intent and historical context
- [45:07-46:43]: Background checks, mental health, fair application of restrictions to all rights
- [46:43-48:21]: Legislation under duress, why new laws rarely solve immediate safety concerns
Closing
Carl Higbie encourages listeners to confront hard truths, get genuinely educated about firearms, and recognize the pitfalls of reactionary, emotional legislation. He and Michaels both seek nuanced solutions, wary of both left and right-wing extremes. Higbie can be found daily at 6pm on Newsmax and via his book “Profiles in Freedom.”
This episode is a must-listen for anyone concerned about security, liberty, and the cultural challenges shaping today’s politics—offering a forthright, provocative discussion that doesn’t shy from controversy while demanding more nuance in the national conversation.