← Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels
THE DR. WHO REFUSED TO KNEEL MANDATES, CENSORSHIP, & CORRUPTION
01:05:14
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- [00:00]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:32]
Jillian Michaels
From the Stanford Halls to dead center of the bullseye. Dr. Mary Talley Bowden is here, and she's risked everything to speak out.
- [00:40]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I mean, I see it every day. I see these people whose lives have been destroyed every day. I've never seen anything like it in my entire career. There's no upside for me to come out and say all this.
- [00:49]
Jillian Michaels
This is her story. And what she says the medical world doesn't want you to know.
- [00:55]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
We could be seeing this unlimited production of spike protein. The other concern is that once the spike protein is made, that it can't be broken down because it has something called pseudouridine, which is a sort of a stabilizer. So it's not to keep it from being broken down to generate more of a heartier immune response. The problem is we don't have a single study showing that the body's capable of. Of breaking down pseudo uridine.
- [01:23]
Jillian Michaels
Buckle up.
- [01:28]
Keeping it real with Jillian Michaels.
- [01:30]
Sponsor Narrator
So let's.
- [01:31]
Jillian Michaels
Let's start here with the beginning, Doc. So there's a direct quote from you. The system is rigged against doctors and patients. The patients part I know. Profitable to keep people sick. We all know it. We got it. Can you elaborate a little bit about the doctor's piece? Is this more on the medical McCarthyism stuff that I've alluded to?
- [01:55]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah. I mean, medicine has changed a lot since I started. It's become much more centralized. It's very rare to find an independent doctor. And it was that independence that sort of allowed me to treat COVID patients the way I wanted. But. So the vast majority of doctors are employees, and they have a third party influencing how they take care of patients. I call myself third party free. So I worked in a traditional system right after residency for a while. Then I started having children, and I had four boys in five years. And I took time off.
- [02:31]
Jillian Michaels
I wasn't even sure I missed that factoid.
- [02:34]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Wow.
- [02:35]
Jillian Michaels
You deserve a badge of honor. Holy cow.
- [02:38]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
It was hectic and I wasn't even sure I was going to go back to medicine. But then once I got older and school routines and everything, I decided to go back that. But when I went back, I was like, I'm going to do it on my terms. I'm going to be third party free. So I don't contract with insurance companies, I don't contract with hospitals. I don't contract with the government, which means that I'm cash only. But it's very transparent. You see the prices. You can get reimbursed for the services, but the only people I work for is my patients. And that served me very well during the pandemic. But that also put me under the target because, you know, most doctors, if they started speaking out during the pandemic, they would have gotten fired. Now, they couldn't fire me, but they could. They publicly shamed me and they turned me into the medical board and they suspended my privileges. So they could, they did everything they could to silence me.
- [03:31]
Jillian Michaels
This is, this is the playbook. I was just having this conversation recently with Bill O'Reilly. So the first is, you know, you're a kook. You're a quack. Kennedy eats dogs. That's my favorite. Cause it's just the most ridiculous. And that was in Newsweek. And when that doesn't work, then they sue you into the ground. And when that doesn't work, you know, the alternative is quite scary. Not to be conspiracy theorist, but, you know, we've seen it come to violence in some cases for people who are influential, moving the needle in directions certain parties may not like. And you've definitely gone through two of the three. God forbid there's a third. Which also leads me to believe, like, well, where there's smoke, there's fire. I've been a victim of, of number one, you know, just the most insane lies and smears and pejoratives that are ridiculous. And it's unfortunate because people sometimes believe it. But then there's the ones that are smart enough that don't. And that's the great news. Like Rogan, for example, it is 11 million person audience. Now, I gotta ask you, we're gonna jump right to the heart of the matter here. What is your position on vaccines? And then I want to get into the nitty gritty, just broad strokes, top line, because this is the most like.
- [04:47]
And can you then from that point start breaking down Covid shots versus things on the schedule or that were, you know, that are currently on the schedule and so on. So just vaccines Broad strokes. What's your take on it?
- [05:03]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Prior to the pandemic, I was your mainstream, cooperative, compliant doctor. All my kids got all their shots. I remember being upset because my pediatrician couldn't see one of my kids to get his three month shots on time. I'm like, oh my gosh, she's going to be delayed.
- [05:23]
No questions at all about the vaccines. Which really makes me mad now that I was not a very critical thinker.
- [05:33]
So, I mean, yeah, I mean, Covid, I saw things, I saw the dark side of vaccinations and now I would definitely do things differently. I mean, I did have a position prior to Covid that okay, if you're sick, you shouldn't get any vaccines because it's just an overload on your immune system. But other than that, I really didn't have any concerns. But now, I mean, I basically have been reading up on everything and realize that none of them have gone through the same safety standards that traditional pharmaceutical products go through. So they don't go through these placebo controlled trials and they don't go through trials where they're, you know, you give four antigens or five antigens in one day and what happens then? So I, I mean, I've done a 180 on them at this point. I mean, and my kids are older now, but if they were younger, I would be, I would be.
- [06:31]
Nervous about giving them these shots. I, you know, I'm not saying that they're all horrible and I haven't seen the immediate side effects. I mean, yeah, I do think there's a link with the autism, but I haven't. Like, with the COVID shots, I'm seeing like immediate. And I'm not a pediatrician, so I know there are moms who have seen this immediate shutdown of their kids after their routine immunizations. But in terms of where it's a little gray. But with the COVID shots, I mean, I'm seeing people that were just like adults primarily, some, some teenagers, perfectly healthy and then bam. I mean, just completely lives destroyed. Yep. I've never seen anything like this with any other product on the market. And I've, you know, in my career, I have seen products come and go. I've seen some antibiotics and pain medications that were, you know, safe and effective. And then all of a sudden they're pulled off the market. But even with those, I didn't see what I'm seeing with these Covid shots. And I mean, I see it every day. I saw two patients today, four or five years Later. I mean, I just, it's astounding to me that these things are still being given to people. I mean, it's, I mean, for example, here's a, here's a classic patient I saw, I think it was last week. She's 50 years old, teacher, marathon runner, gets two shots, had some severe swelling under her arm after the second shot. Now her right arm will not stop shaking four years later. And she's going to numerous doctors and the doctors will not even entertain the possibility that it could have anything to do with the COVID shot. So I mean, she's going around doctor, doctor, doctor. And everybody's like, oh, there's nothing, you know, we don't know why this has happened. We're baffled. It's that sort of thing. Especially with like, people are shaking and they're sitting right in front of you and they were perfectly healthy. And then they get these shots and you're like, well, yeah. And it's bad because we don't have good tests. So these people, they'll get an mri, they'll get a bunch of blood work, everything will look normal. And for some reason medicine has moved to this.
- [08:46]
You have to have a test to confirm the diagnosis. Like, there's so much emphasis on testing and there's much less emphasis on the history and physical exam. And there's this weird mindset now where you, you know, you can't prescribe anything unless you got the test to confirm it. And these, unfortunately, with these vaccine injured patients, the only tests that I have been found that have been consistently helpful is looking at their spike protein antibody levels. And it's, it's a little bit muddy because we don't have a great way to measure actual spike protein in the blood. So we have to look at antibody levels and you know, your antibodies are going to go up with infection and they're going to go up with the shots that's normal. And you expect that. But I'm seeing just this dramatic difference. So in patients that got the COVID shots, and I actually intend on going this weekend and updating my information because it's been a couple months. But patients who got the shots, on average, their spike protein antibody level is 13,000. In patients that did not get the shots, their spike protein antibody level is 1300. So it's 10 times greater. And this is four years after the shots. So this is, you would normally these antibody levels would come down after time. The concern is that because the way these products were designed, they're designed so your body produces the spike Protein, that's how they're designed. So.
- [10:10]
We could be seeing this unlimited production of spike protein. The other concern is that once the spike protein is made that it can't be broken down because it has something called pseudouridine, which is a sort of a stabilizer. So it's not, it's to keep it from being broken down to generate more of a heartier immune response. The problem is we don't have a single study showing that the body's capable of, of breaking down pseudouridine. So, you know, we honestly, we need more research. And that's another huge frustration of mine because so much of this is just trial and error and, you know, talking to other doctors who are like minded, but, you know, there's so few of us out there, we really need the NIH to step up. And I mean, it wouldn't be that hard in terms of efficacy. You know, I think the biggest marker for me, the biggest tell for me is that the first hospital in the country to mandate these shots, and that was Houston Methodist, where I had privileges. And they did it April 1, 2021. They did it five months before Biden. They really paved the way for the rest of the country. And so they came after me because I challenged that. But they never shared their efficacy data.
- [11:27]
Jillian Michaels
Right.
- [11:27]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
So they're sitting on, you know, they have 30, 40,000 employees. They never shared, okay, how many of these of our employees didn't get sick, didn't stay in the hospital or look at the hospitalized patients? Why didn't they share that information? And you know, I was doing testing as well. And so I was tracking patients vaccinated versus unvaccinated. And so the patients that came in, what I found is that the unvaccinated outnumbered the vaccinated and were just as sick, if not sicker. And I actually went to Methodists because I had a good relationship with them initially. We were doing research together and I said, hey, what's going on? Are you seeing what I'm seeing? And they said, well, we just think it lowers the severity of the disease. And yet they never shared their data. So why not? It's like, why won't Neil Stone come on the podcast?
- [12:20]
Jillian Michaels
That's the huge tell that is it. I ended up interviewing a woman who was injured. I think it wasn't actually the MRNA vaccine. Her name is Brianne Dresin. She was injured during a trial. They were doing a study on her and other people who were vaccine injured at the nih. As they're rolling out the shots, nothing to See here, Nothing to worry about. And yet you have people who've been injured. You don't understand why. You don't know what's going on with it. You don't have any answers. You're telling them you don't know. You're trying to figure it out as you're burying that quietly and rolling these things out. And then it's like, well, why can't we talk about Ivermectin? Aren't doctors able to use these things off label? It's not, you know, whatever the triple signature opioid situation. I don't get it. And the minute you talk about that, you're demonized. You. I got kicked off of TikTok for a fricking real with a doctor talking about Ivermectin and its safety profile. And it's like, well, because Dr. Phil told me, actually, when I asked him about this, he goes, well, if you have a therapeutic that works, you can't push the vaccine through emergency use loopholes. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. That makes sense. Yeah. Duck.
- [13:54]
Why, though? So what? So let's put our tin hats on here for just a second. Surely the companies that make medications have enough money. Like, why do we need to. And we're still. Why? Like, is it really that profitable? I don't. I don't get it.
- [14:12]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Oh, yeah, well, yeah, there's vaccines, and.
- [14:14]
Jillian Michaels
They have one freaking vaccine of all the drugs you've got, of all the medications.
- [14:21]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Oh, the entire world got it. Yes.
- [14:23]
Commercial Narrator
Okay.
- [14:24]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
And they mandated it. I mean, what a. What a great market. I mean, of our company. I mean, that's. That's bonanza. Right? And they have no liability.
- [14:32]
Commercial Narrator
But.
- [14:32]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, And I want to talk about why they targeted Ivermectin beyond just the, you know, making room for. I mean, beyond that. I want to go a little deeper on that. Let me.
- [14:42]
Jillian Michaels
I don't know more than that.
- [14:43]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Go. Okay. So it was very orchestrated. They went after Ivermectin. They smeared it in the press. And I actually sued over that and won. And it all started in the spring of 2021. They. The government was upset because people were not buying it. They were not going to rush in and get these shots. So In March, only 10% of Americans have gotten the shots. So they started to discredit Ivermectin. The CDC or the FDA put out information on their websites, basically saying, why you should not take Ivermectin for Covid. And then on April 1, this is the first day that this is the day that Methodists mandated the shots, Biden launched something called the COVID 19 Community Corps. He invested $11.5 billion of taxpayer money into propaganda. So this went out to influencers, sports teams, church groups, you name it. And it started off with a small group, and it webbed out to, I think it was something like 17,000 groups or something. Billions of dollars to tell everybody that it was safe and effective. The COVID shots. So then, you know, you might remember the third and the largest surge of the pandemic was late summer, early fall of 2021. And in late August, the FDA put out the horse tweet. So it was attractive healthcare worker nuzzling the horse. And it says, seriously, y', all, you're not a horse. You're not a cow. Stop it. So that tweet went viral, and it. It really did some damage. I mean, it made it very hard for me to prescribe Ivermectin. It created this sort of black market of Ivermectin. Like, you could not send it to CVS or Walgreens. You had to find special pharmacies that were willing to prescribe, willing to dispense. Resulted in the medical boards coming after us. I mean, this whole medical board issue that I've been dealing with, you know, they claim it has nothing to do with Ivermectin, but it has everything to do with Ivermectin. And they, you know, medical boards across the country started going after doctors. And so this is late August, and then early September, Biden mandated the COVID shots and took away monoclonal antibodies. So it was all very orchestrated the way they went after Ivermectin. And we. We actually sued the FDA over that horse tweet. And we won, which is. It's very hard to sue the government and win. And we. They had to take down the horse tweet, and they had to take down the misinformation on their website.
- [17:31]
Jillian Michaels
That's unbelievable. I want to just validate you from an anecdotal place. Not that you need validation, but I have so many friends that got the shot and have spoken about how their autoimmune conditions were exacerbated across the board, and people are not there. Like, you know, I don't know, it was like a tiny little patch of psoriasis that's now, like, from here all the way down to my knee. Or it could be a random skin condition. It could be Crohn's. It could be arthritis. But across the board, people who had autoimmune conditions tell me, you know, I, I don't want to sound crazy, but after I got the shot and you know I got it, I'm not trying to get pregnant, so I can't. We're way past that. Even if I change my mind. But so many people I know wonder if it's impacted their fertility. But infertility has been on the rise for a long time. Like, there's no way to nail it down. So if I was to try to play devil's advocate here and say, well, Dr. Bowden, you know, autoimmune conditions have been on the rise for decades. These, these injuries that you speak of, you can't nail it down. You know, you, you're making this stuff up, but the data doesn't show it. I, I can only imagine this is what you're, you know, the people who would contradict you would say, so I'm trying to say it. What does one say to that then? If I'm going to critique you with, you've made this up. That's not what the data says. We have very few injuries. They would have, Ah, here's another one. Sorry. And they would have gotten these injuries worse if they've gotten Covid.
- [19:11]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I remember that one. Yeah. I mean, we have, I'll just say we have an enormous amount of data. We just don't have anybody in power who's willing to acknowledge it. And we have not only published peer reviewed studies, so they're over. I think at this point they're probably 3,600 published peer reviewed studies showing adverse reactions to these shots. One of the big tells is the disability data. So in the third quarter of 2021, so this is eight, nine months following the rollout of the COVID shots. The people in the healthiest sector of our, of our country, the working class, the 18 to, I think it's 55 year olds. Disabilities went up 40%.
- [19:58]
Which is shocking. There's all sorts of. It's like worse than World War II or something.
- [20:04]
Jillian Michaels
Oh, my gosh.
- [20:07]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
We have autopsy data. We have.
- [20:10]
Jillian Michaels
Is that real, by the way, Doc, forgive me, I pause on that one. We've all heard, oh, they're pulling out blood clots that are 2ft long. I mean, the thing is, there's no.
- [20:22]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Upside to coming out with this information and going public with it, as I can attest to. And there's a reason so few are doing it. So I believe them. I mean, they got visuals. I don't, I don't know what else it could be. I mean, I'VE seen it. I've never embalmed somebody, but.
- [20:40]
You know, there's just no upside to coming out with all this stuff. It's just.
- [20:45]
Jillian Michaels
It's.
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Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
It's. You're subjecting yourself to a lot of heat. So I just have to believe the people that are coming out.
- [20:54]
Jillian Michaels
Okay, so autopsy data and. And keep going. Sorry I interrupted you, but we were talking about disabilities. We were talking about disability.
- [21:03]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
There's life insurance data. There's data looking at the people dropping dead on the athletes that are dropping dead.
- [21:12]
Jillian Michaels
Myocarditis.
- [21:14]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Myocarditis. And one other point I want to make about the myocarditis is. So myocarditis is sort of a difficult diagnosis to make. The only way you can definitively make it is by doing a cardiac mri, which very few people order or do, or doing a cardiac biopsy. So it's primarily by symptoms. And, you know, there may be some other. You know, there may be some markers on blood work and that sort of thing, but not always.
- [21:43]
So what I'm concerned about is these babies getting these shots because the CDC actually does acknowledge that there's an increased risk of myocarditis. And boys from age 12 to 17, they acknowledge that in writing. But have they even studied the babies? Because the babies can't tell you they have chest pain. And unless you are doing cardiac MRIs or cardiac biopsies on them, you have no idea if they're getting myocarditis. And if they get myocarditis, it can leave a scar on the heart, which then leads to a lifelong increased risk of sudden cardiac death.
- [22:18]
Jillian Michaels
Oh, my gosh.
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Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
That has not been looked at.
- [22:20]
Jillian Michaels
Right. So, okay, now I know you've become more critical of Kennedy and you feel like he's not doing enough. I want to get into that. But he did remove the shot. Covid shot. From the CDC's childhood schedule. Now, from my perspective, I see him remove it, and I see all of the liberal media go after him and claim that he's taken away. They. You promised you wouldn't take away our vaccines. And he's like, I. I didn't take away your vaccine. I just didn't mandate it. You've now, oh, but you've made it.
- [22:52]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Harder for us to get.
- [22:53]
Jillian Michaels
By the way, you drive into the frickin CVS to go get some toothpaste, and there's a big sign. Get your Covid shot. Get your flu shot here. I'm like, it doesn't seem difficult to get. I. I don't know, is it Just my CVS that seems to have it readily available for anybody that wants to get it. Oh my God. You're. You're putting people at risk. You. You dangerous, dangerous man. And it's all a lie. I, I can't wrap my head around it. I'm like you, number one. You could still get it if, if you want it. It's contraindicated for kids. It's just not mandated so they don't have to get it to go to school. To me I'm like, oh, this bastard is taking it on the chin. Holy cow, this poor son of a gun. And to you, you're like, he's been neutered. Tell me what I'm not seeing. I saw that you're like, who neutered Kennedy? I was like, geez, what do I, what do I miss?
- [23:42]
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Jillian Michaels
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- [25:06]
Jillian Michaels
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- [25:10]
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- [25:26]
Jillian Michaels
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- [26:25]
Jillian Michaels
Quince.com Jillian it makes my stomach turn.
- [26:30]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
To think of anybody getting these shots, but much less a child.
- [26:34]
Jillian Michaels
Oh, I get it.
- [26:36]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
What's the upside? What are we saving them from? I mean, a cold Covid has evolved into a cold. There is no upside to putting them at risk. And like I said, I mean, I see it every day. I see these people whose lives have been destroyed every day. I've never seen anything like it in my entire career. There's no upside for me to come out and say all this.
- [26:56]
Jillian Michaels
I'm 65. I'm 65 years old. I've got an autoimmune condition. I've got fibromyalgia. I'm immunocompromised. I need. I need it.
- [27:06]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
No, you can treat it. Early treatment.
- [27:08]
Jillian Michaels
Doc, I've had this fight with doctors for members of my family.
- [27:13]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I'm sure you have. And they've been brainwashed.
- [27:17]
Jillian Michaels
The convinced the older members of my family, one with Parkinson's, one with fibromyalgia. They're older. You know, this is. This is the population you could be putting. You know, you. You know, you're. You're a trainer. You. You could be. You really want to, you know, take this. This risk, you know? And I'm like, it's not that I'm a trainer. I've interviewed doctors who've explained the concerns about this shot, but they scare the heck out of the members of my family. And by the way, I've seen. What's the. Oh, my God. It's sibo. One of them got sibo, had perfect gastrointestinal health, severe reoccurring sibo. And you know who told me that was gonna happen Dr. Hazen, who's a gastroenterologist. But there's. Can't prove it. I can't prove it. And the last time that this member of my family took antibiotics was like five years ago from a cat bite. I'm, you know, we can't say like, oh, you know, we've been using antibiotics prophylactically, over prescribed. Nope, can't have that conversation.
- [28:26]
But the, that that's the argument is the older group, that's what they tell me. And it. You see no benefit to that. What would you do if you got some 75 year old with Parkinson's who caught Covid? I don't know, turned into pneumonia, and now look what we've done. We've killed her.
- [28:41]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Pneumonia is a disease of neglect of, of not getting early treatment. I, I learned this very quickly. So I treated over 6,000 COVID patients. I've never treated any disease with that amount of intensity in my career. It's all I saw for many years. So you quickly become an expert. And pneumonia comes from not treating early. So that is a huge problem we have in our medical system because there's this fear of over prescribing antibiotics. And we saw this. And that led to the primary care doctors all saying, well, it's a virus, Covid. Let it run its course. And then if you can't breathe, go to the emergency room. Well, that was a huge mistake. And there's also this dogma that you cannot do anything for a virus. So, you know, for the elderly, what I say is, you know, come, come, go see your doctor early and you get early treatment. If it's a viral infection, I put people on ivermectin. If I have to risk over prescribing antibiotics to prevent my elderly patient from getting pneumonia, so be it. It's a risk benefit. There's an art to it. The patient who has diabetes, you're going to be more aggressive about antibiotics than you would somebody with no risk factors other than their age, things like that. But the vaccine is the last thing they need. Believe me.
- [30:10]
Jillian Michaels
They don't lean on these therapeutics at all. I'm like, well, what's the point of having them then? It's very strange. So you've got me on this one. I can't even push back. I've heard it. We've all heard it. I think people realize at this point Covid is not a nefarious pathogen that's gonna wipe out kind of anybody. We're not really hearing about anybody dying of COVID And now that we have therapeutics, we understand it better. Like, okay, great, let's table that one.
- [30:38]
Generally, vaccines. This one is such a complicated, nuanced conversation.
- [30:47]
Where do you stand on this? And I'll just say I'm middle of the road. And the only reason I'm middle of the road is because from a common sense perspective, I don't understand why you give a newborn a hepatitis B vaccine. And I understand the huge financial incentive behind it. And I also know you can test the moment for hepatitis B. And child's not going to engage in risky sex or intravenous drug use to get hepatitis B outside of moms. So why are we doing that? Uh, and I know that, you know, the pharmaceutical companies lobby the World Health Organization to put it, you know, to mandated for kids around the world. Like, I, I get it, I get the incentive and it's, it's nefarious. I don't understand why we would ever want children to get hepatitis B. Which is a question I actually asked Dr. Stone. I'm like, just why? Just tell me why hepatitis B? I don't get it. Now I've had whooping cough and Doc, I've famously. Oh, it almost. Oh my gosh, I've never been sicker. I. When I tell you I've never been sicker. I, I don't like to take a frickin. I don't like to take a Tylenol. I don't like taking Advil. You know, I, I don't, I don't like it. I took every drug that my doctor gave me and I mean, she gave me, Holy mother of God, two rounds of a Z pack, intravenous antibiotics because it wouldn't go away. All kinds of anti inflammatories, allergy medicine. It was hell. So now I think, okay, if a baby.
- [32:18]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Hold on. Did she give you steroids early on? Early on?
- [32:22]
Jillian Michaels
No, Doc, it's my fault. I thought it was just, I thought it was just. It started out not so bad and I thought I beat it. It was like a low grade fever. And then by, I was traveling and then by week two and a half, my wife is like, you're going to the hot. We are going to the hospital. And I wasn't in la and I had kept my doctors in Los Angeles because they're great. And I ended up, you know, calling my doctor in Los Angeles on Sunday at like five in the morning and I was like, I think I need, I think I need to go to the hospital. I think I'm dying. And and she just, you know, she hit me with the horns. But no, it's my fault, because I was like, I got this. You know, I'll take my.
- [33:02]
Vitamin C and my zinc and my this and my that. And this is where I thought, you know, God is trying to teach me a lesson here about, you know, I.
- [33:12]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well.
- [33:14]
I became. I had pneumonia sepsis after getting the flu shot. So. Okay, I. I don't know. You can say that. Yeah. Getting that pertussis shot would have prevented your illness. And there may have been other things going on that I don't know.
- [33:32]
Jillian Michaels
So tell me, Doc, hit me with the, like, what am I not seeing? Because to me, I'm thinking, if a newborn gets this, it's a serious problem. No, because I thought for sure this would kill me if I didn't have all of these medicines.
- [33:46]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
If you treat pertussis early, it responds very well to a Z pack. That's my argument.
- [33:52]
Jillian Michaels
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah. I mean, maybe it's your fault for delaying treatment.
- [33:56]
Jillian Michaels
You're not. Okay, okay, okay, that's fair. I did delay treatment. You're 100, right? I did. You know, but I was thinking, like, oh, I don't want to take antibiotics. So I was. I guess I wasn't properly gauging the level. The defcon levels of cost benefit analysis with different medications. So unilaterally. Do you think vaccines save lives? I would say, well, sure. I mean, look at polio. Look at. Look at measles. You're giving me that look. Okay, so. So what do I not.
- [34:30]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I. I'm not. I'll just say, and this is something Dr. Drew taught me. I'm just gonna say, I am unconvinced. I need more information to say that. And I. I definitely am. I mean, if it were my own kids, I would. I would stop at all. I would wait until we had proper information and. And remove the liability protection. Because if they're all as safe and effective as they claim to be, then they should be fine. You know, standing in a court of law if things go wrong.
- [35:00]
Jillian Michaels
Okay, 100%. See your point there. Let's talk about Florida removing all vax mandates. I'm a parent in Florida. I'm a liberal. And for some reason, liberals lean into this a little harder, which is weird. Like, because we used to be liberals. We're like the crunchy granola people who drank raw milk, and now it's Republicans. I can't wrap my head around how this became political at all. But nevertheless, I'm outraged. Kids are coming to my school with measles. And they're giving my kids measles in these insane Luddite. Republicans have facilitated this, and to a certain extent, yeah. I mean, some of this stuff's pretty nefarious. Tetanus. I mean, it's not contagious, but you know, what kind of parent. You know, as a parent, are you being irresponsible if you don't protect your child from tetanus? From. I. I know that measles is not that dangerous.
- [36:02]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, if you get tetanus, you can still get a tetanus shot after the exposure, by the way.
- [36:09]
Jillian Michaels
Really?
- [36:12]
So if you. Okay, now. I don't know. I got tetanus. My kid stepped on a rusty nail. He didn't tell me.
- [36:19]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't have all the answers on all these vaccines. I do believe that you should never. The government or a third party shouldn't force somebody to have something injected in their body or in their kid's body. And if the vaccines are effective, then it shouldn't matter if somebody else comes to school with the disease. If you are vaccinated, then you're protected.
- [36:47]
Jillian Michaels
Okay, ready for the argument on that one? The argument on that one is my child has a condition where they can't get vaccinated. So you.
- [37:01]
Are. Are essentially responsible as a good, upstanding member of society. I mean, this is the argument, Doc. You've heard it a thousand times. Because I thought that I had that conversation, actually. I was like, well, I don't understand why you're so alarmed. If you could get the COVID vaccine or you could get the MMR vaccine, then you should be fine. Well, with the child's immune compromise, they can't get the vaccine, and now you put their life at risk.
- [37:28]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, if the child's immune compromised, they're going to be susceptible to all sorts of things that vaccines don't cover. So perhaps that's not the right environment for them.
- [37:43]
Jillian Michaels
That's fair. Are there.
- [37:46]
Any in particular you. You would do blindly? Not. Or. It's not blindly, but like you'd say, no, no, no. This one is a. Hell, yeah, I gotta get it. Do you look at them. No.
- [38:00]
Cheese. Doc, is this not.
- [38:02]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I gotta be more convinced.
- [38:04]
Jillian Michaels
Okay, so then let me narrow it down again one more time here. Is it because there's not enough data because you've seen data that scares you?
- [38:16]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, I'll put a plug in for. I don't know if you watched that documentary that just came out. An inconvenience Study.
- [38:24]
Where.
- [38:26]
Did you. Is Henry Ford Hospital.
- [38:30]
And all sorts of alarming data showing much higher risk of asthma and other. Other medical problems, autoimmune problems, ADHD in the kids that got vaccinated. So I mean, that, that's disturbing.
- [38:53]
But yeah, I mean, a lot of the diseases you can treat with antibiotics, early treatment.
- [39:00]
And I just think it's.
- [39:04]
We don't. I just don't trust the system at all anymore. Yeah, after what happened during COVID I just, I just don't trust them.
- [39:11]
Jillian Michaels
So it' so unfortunate is that no one trusts anything anymore. Everything is up for grabs now. You can't hold on to anything. Whether it's like somebody was assassinated by a guy that seemingly is a member of Antifa, who is seemingly in love with a person who's trans and you know, is seemingly is on the fringe of society and is a furry. I mean, it seems like, yeah, that guy would probably want to take out Charlie Kirk instead. It's like, no, there's an underground bunker. No, no, there's a. The microphone exploded. No, no, Israel did it. And you just. And it's like, you can't, you know. No, no, no. His wife is a honeypot plant from a foreign nefarious government. It, it just. And the thing is like, I, I'm not comparing these two things at all. I, I understand everything you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is it just unfortunately opens up this. Just nobody knows what to believe and what to trust. And I would say, all right, you've gone to medical school, so you of all people should be able to disseminate fact from fiction. And if you're telling me you don't know what to trust, that's kind of alarming. So what does the average person do now? Right? Like you're saying, like, hey, guys, we can, we can treat these conditions with therapeutics once they occur.
- [40:45]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, I think. Yeah, the nice thing about our system now versus what was going on 20 years ago is people have access to so much more information. I mean, 20 years ago you really had to trust your doctor. There was. You couldn't. We didn't have the Internet. Right.
- [41:04]
And yeah, the Internet can lead you down the wrong road, the wrong path, but it's certainly helpful. And then getting multiple opinions is. I strongly advise that. And I think Covid, how doctors behave during COVID is a litmus test. They don't have to be out there like me, but if, if you walk in their office and they want you to put on A mask, and they're telling you you need to get all these shots, and they don't allow you to ask any questions and, you know, walk, you know, find another doctor.
- [41:39]
So, yeah, it's. There's not a. It's a little bit muddy with the vaccines, but after what they did to us with these Covid shots, I just. I just can't recommend any vaccines at this point. I mean, they're not. There's no recourse if something happens and this is going on with these Covid shots. There's supposed to be a government fund to help these people if they get injured. There is an assumption with vaccines that there will be some injuries. But the CICP, which is the COVID fund, they have only reimbursed 41 people, and there have been about 14,000 people that have applied. So people are not getting help. So if something happens to you, whether it's with the COVID shot or one of these other vaccines, you're basically out of luck.
- [42:29]
Jillian Michaels
Okay, Doc, you mentioned that you think there is potentially a link to autism. I want to. Here we go. I'm going to be devil's advocate. I actually have no idea. And that's. My answer is I have no idea. I don't think we have an idea. That's what. I've sort of taken away the contrarian position. This is settled science.
- [42:51]
I think I know why. It's not because I've interviewed several experts on the subject matter. But just in case I missed it, can you tell people, do you think. Why do you think it's not settled science?
- [43:01]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, I'll have a disclaimer that I am far from an expert in this area.
- [43:07]
And I did recently interview Toby Rogers. If you haven't interviewed him, he's wonderful. He is really devoted to much of his career to studying the link.
- [43:19]
But the studies that have been done looking at autism have not controlled for vaccination status, which makes it all very muddy.
- [43:30]
And so I think that that's sort of my strongest indication is that all these studies that say, oh, it's genetics or Tylenol or, you know, the Tylenol studies don't control her vaccination status. And I don't know that, you know, it's probably multifactorial. It's probably not all vaccines. I certainly don't think it's all Tylenol.
- [43:53]
But there's a huge problem and we don't really have. I don't think it's genetic. There's no way it could be genetic in the. In the timeframe that has exploded. That just doesn't make sense from a genetic perspective.
- [44:09]
Jillian Michaels
I can say that with obesity, people are like, well, genetic predisposition. I'm like, well, it's a quantum leap for genetics because in the 70s, 5% of the population was obese or overweight, and now it's 74 of the adult population in America. So, my God, that's just insane. Do you think we'll be flying in another 50 years? Like, we'll grow wings, like.
- [44:30]
And in fact, I believe there was a study at UC Davis, at the Mind Institute that said genetics loads. Well, they didn't say that, obviously. Doctors say genetics load the gun, but environment pulls the trigger. And they said that the explosion in rates just can't, can't be genetic. And I've, I've heard differing numbers, from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 31, 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 31, one in 2,000. Even if we said 1 in a thousand nowadays to 1 in 31 can't, oh, better diagnosis. You can't account for that kind of staggering increase.
- [45:05]
And I, I, I, I wonder about, you know, Kennedy says something happened in the 80s, the mid-80s. We saw this. We don't know. We got to nail it down. Do you, do you have any idea, have you interviewed anyone that thinks they know what that is? I've heard him talk about that, that there's something that flipped the switch, environmentally speaking, that made this skyrocket in the 80s.
- [45:34]
He said something about in the 80s, and I wasn't sure if it had to do with Thimero, because then there's the study that was a huge study. I'm trying to remember which one. There are two that people say it's settled science, settled science. And they refer to one that's on mmr and it's, it's really broad. And there's another on thyme. And they're like, no, you know, which, for anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about, is added or was previously added to vaccines. And I think it's like 50% mercury by weight. And there was concern about that. And like, no, there's a big study that debunks that. So I don't know if that's what he was referring to or if it was the schedule maybe getting more aggressive because of immunity, and that's what he was referring to.
- [46:20]
But what's interesting is that they will basically just put out there that it's settled science. And I, I have seen so many people do that, and it's.
- [46:30]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well. And Peter Hotez won't debate anybody either.
- [46:33]
Jillian Michaels
Right?
- [46:34]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
So that's another tell.
- [46:36]
Jillian Michaels
Yeah, exactly. I. I have a friend who's exceptionally intelligent that I'm. I'm not gonna put on blast. But I saw her on her show taking Kennedy to pieces, and I was like, hey, dude, you know, I think you're brilliant, and so many things you. You educate me on. Could I kind of enlighten you on why this isn't settled science?
- [47:01]
Nope. Won't have the conversation. Which is. Which is really alarming, is that they just don't want to know about it, which I find even stranger.
- [47:15]
In this. In your field, outside of vaccines and this medical industrial complex that punishes doctors for being honest and authentic and essentially profits off making patients sick, what are some other things that deeply alarm you that you'd like to see changed?
- [47:41]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, the nonprofit hospitals are really milking it for all it's worth. They're part of the reason that our healthcare expenses are so enormous. So you have a hospital like Houston Methodist Hospital that has over $13 billion in assets. They sponsor the Houston Astros. They sponsor the Houston Ballet. Not a day goes by that I'm not assaulted by their brand. So there's all this money going into their marketing. It's questionable how much indigent care do they really care, you know, take care of? Because people on the inside say there aren't that many poor people running around that hospital. And yet, you know, they get a huge. They don't pay any property taxes. And if you follow Texas politics, that's a huge thing for Texas. Like, they don't. We don't have an income tax in Texas, so they get us with our property taxes, and our property taxes are just insane. So Houston Methodists and other nonprofit hospitals and, you know, Houston has the largest medical center in the entire world. So we were like the heart of the medical mafia is what I call it. But they don't pay property taxes. And, you know, why is healthcare so. It's so outrageous. Even if you have insurance, it's outrageous.
- [49:04]
And I just think that's a huge issue that people aren't really paying attention to. The hospitals really behaved poorly during the pandemic. They treated people like prisoners. They let people die alone. They subjected people to these very rigid protocols. My fight with the medical board is over a patient that was just trying to. He was on hospice and wanted to try Ivermectin, which is now over the counter in Texas or will be in in two months. It would pass the law passed.
- [49:43]
But the hospitals were just so rigid and, you know, not looking out for the best interest of the patient.
- [49:53]
Jillian Michaels
Do you think there should be Nuremberg style trial for people that perpetrated this?
- [50:02]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, but I don't think it will happen. I mean, you look at, it was so hard to, to hold people accountable for the Holocaust. So I just think, you see, you know, Trump with Borla in the Oval Office, I think they're, you know, not on this, not during this term. We will not see accountability. Now there are, there's two big lawsuits that give me hope. And the first one is.
- [50:30]
Brooke Jackson, who was a whistleblower. She was a research manager. She was overseeing the research at Pfizer at one of their labs and she noticed all these issues going on, like they were unblinding the patients. They weren't following the protocols that were set out for the research. And when she reported it, she got fired. And so she is suing Pfizer and it is a RICO case, a fraud case. And if it's successful, it could be huge. I mean, it could take down Pfizer. But the problem is Pam Bondi is blocking it, is trying to get the case dismissed. Normally the government works with the whistleblower against the evil company, but in this situation, the government is assisting Pfizer. That's super unfortunate, but it's hanging on by thread. If that goes through, that could be huge.
- [51:28]
There's also another case and people need to know this. It's important if you think you were injured by these shots and it doesn't have to be definite, but if you have strong suspicion and you report it to the doctor that gave you the shot, they are legally obligated to report that injury to vaers. VAERS is a vaccine adverse event reporting system. And if they don't, you can sue them. And you have until probably 2029 to do this. So there's plenty of time to get this going. There's a big case in the works. Deb Conrad was a physician assistant at Rochester Hospital. She was reporting injuries to vaers and she got fired for reporting too many.
- [52:14]
Jillian Michaels
And she is suing.
- [52:15]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
But that is a big case. It's made it past the motion to dismiss. It's in discovery. And so if that sets a good precedent, then people can, I mean, open the floodgates. I mean, this could go all over the country, any hospital, you could. Because this is what I'm seeing too. None of my patients have come to see me. Most of the time they've seen multiple other Doctors. And no one has reported the vaers. I'm the one that's reporting them to vaers. And they get gaslit. They're told it's all in your head, and they get put on psychiatric medication and all sorts of things. But the people that gave out the shots are legally obligated to report any suspicion. It doesn't have to be definite, but if there's suspicion, they're obligated to report it. So that's a huge avenue for people to get some accountability.
- [53:10]
Jillian Michaels
Do you regret.
- [53:12]
Taking action? I mean, sometimes I ask myself that. I'm like, should I just. Like, should I just shut the fuck up? Honestly? Should I just be, like, on the COVID of Novo Nordisk's ozempic page because one of the former Biggest Loser trainers is. I mean, should I, like, should I have, you know, should I be like, ah, yeah, dude, dudes in chick sports, 100% fair. Yeah, awesome. Should I have. I mean, I wonder about it. Should I be like, yeah, you know, like, all white people are racist. Mea culpa. Like, I think, like, what? Why? Because you do this suffering that you go through, and you have experienced that on an exponential level. Like, deep down, you lay in bed at night and think, I fuck it. I wish I hadn't done it.
- [54:05]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, I. I didn't really. I don't feel like I chose it. Like, it kind of happened to me. I mean, I. I was speaking out on social media, but at the time, I. I mean, I had, like, two likes on a tweet. It wasn't like I had the following I have now. I mean, I wasn't, you know, going up to CNN and making an announcement. I mean, I was just on Twitter or, yeah, I was Twitter back then. And, yeah, I would. And I sent emails to my patients to go back to Houston Methodist. So, you know, what happened was I was. I got a text message from a reporter at the Houston Chronicle saying, can you confirm, is it true that your privileges have been suspended from Houston Methodist for spreading dangerous and misinformation? And I did a double take. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. So they went straight to the press. And then I go, you know, next thing I know, it's like, CNN and the Washington Post and an NBC are all reporting about me. I mean, it was surreal. I mean, I'm like, I was like a soccer mom two years before that.
- [55:05]
Jillian Michaels
You know, they made you a martyr.
- [55:08]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
So. But it made me so angry. So, yeah, I'm still so angry. So that's what kind of fuels me. And I. And I just want to prove them all wrong.
- [55:18]
Jillian Michaels
Well, I think it's working. I was really hoping to. To try to have somebody say, no, Dr. Bowden, you know, because people love to smear you with that brush. Anti vaxxer. I'm like, I'm not a doctor. I don't have enough knowledge to be an anti vaxxer. All I'm telling you is it's definitely not settled science. That I can say with confidence. But it's fascinating the way they try to smear you like you're some sort of kook crazy lunatic.
- [55:45]
And yet, look. Look how powerful you've become. Look how your message has resonated. You have become an unlikely hero. And. And I know what that feels like. And not being an unlikely hero, but being crucified for trying to sound the alarm. And you have taken it, my God, 10 times worse than I ever have. And I am grateful for your sacrifices. I'm a regular person. I'm watching this. I'm feeling a bit dystopian. So you. You spoke a little bit about the clinic you set up. What am I. How do I care for myself at this point? Like, how do I practice prevention.
- [56:28]
If I can't, you know, I can't. I don't. Can't trust. I don't know how. How to, like, how do I take that medication? Is it safe? Like, how do I move forward with my family? Like, what advice do you have for the person watching? That's just, like, if I can't trust this, what can I trust?
- [56:46]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah. Yes. It's hard. I mean, I. Number one is, you know, there's so many things you can do to take care of your health as you can attest to. You know, managing your weight is probably, I think, number one, keeping your weight under control and keeping your blood sugar down, getting enough exercise to alleviate stress, and you sleep better. If you sleep better, your immune system is better.
- [57:12]
I'm not a huge, you know, take every vitamin kind of person. I'm kind of. I'm a simpleton with that. I mean, I just. I believe in good diet, big rocks, vitamins. But, yeah, vitamin D is the most, like, it's pretty important. And I will say, like, when I test people, their vitamin D is. That's sort of. I think it's probably the most common lab abnormality I find, is low vitamin D. So if you're going to supplement, that's usually where I tell people to focus on. But basics, you know, weight is not, you know, as you said, obesity is probably our number one health problem. If people can manage their weight, a lot of things will follow with their health.
- [57:55]
And then, you know, there are doctors out there you can trust. Covid is a litmus test. There are some websites you can go to. Independent Medical alliance has a list of like minded doctors.
- [58:08]
There is the Simone Gold has a network of physicians, Gold Care alliance.
- [58:16]
And then, you know, go to the doctor for emergencies. Doctors are good with emergencies, but maybe stay away for other situations.
- [58:24]
Jillian Michaels
Gosh. Okay, so you're saying focus on prevention. Find a doctor that you can trust who listens to you and doesn't blindly follow the dogma. That makes great sense. Are you taking patients at all? Are you, are you allowed to see people outside of Texas? Can people find you?
- [58:41]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, I, I, yeah, I only see new patients in person. I don't like, I really don't like telemedicine, but I'll do it in a pinch. I just think it's much, you just get a better sense of things seeing people in person. And I'm in Houston and I do, I'm primarily ear, nose and throat. I do allergy sleep medicine. But on top of that, I do Covid, either long Covid or, or Covid injured shot injuries.
- [59:13]
Jillian Michaels
So and there's treatment for that. Like if you have long Covid and in shot injuries, there's a way to treat that stuff.
- [59:21]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, I get the best response from ivermectin.
- [59:24]
Jillian Michaels
Wow. Okay.
- [59:25]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
My test, you know, and again, we don't have great markers on blood work and that sort of imaging. But the thing that gave me the most confidence in treating long Covid or Covid shot injuries with ivermectin were a couple patients that just had these horrible rashes that came on after the shots. Previously healthy, you know, they'd been, they'd been on antihistamines, they've been on steroids and they'd been on biologics and nothing worked. And the only thing that worked for them was ivermectin. So that kind of gave me the confidence to keep using ivermectin for patient. Basically it blocks the spike protein from entering the cell and it has 20 mechanisms of action. It's very anti inflammatory.
- [60:09]
Jillian Michaels
Wow.
- [60:10]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
So tends to, and I use it for all viruses now.
- [60:16]
It's not just specific to Covid. It blocks viruses from entering the cell.
- [60:21]
Jillian Michaels
You know, when I got whooping cough, I got that one too. I got ivermectin as well.
- [60:29]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
I was like, okay, yeah, done.
- [60:31]
Jillian Michaels
What am I Taking heroin? Sure.
- [60:33]
Sponsor Narrator
Yes.
- [60:34]
Jillian Michaels
Like it was at that point because I'd been. I'd been so irresponsible. I'm just out from my own curiosity and friends of mine who are suffering. Are you using Ivermectin consistently or is it like a therapeutic dose? Once, twice, I don't know, three days, five days, however you. Or is it something that you're micro dosing over time? I'm just my own selfish curiosity.
- [60:57]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
No, I. So there's a protocol on. It used to be FLCCC and now it's independent medical alliance. So that's a great resource.
- [61:06]
Jillian Michaels
Got it.
- [61:06]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
If you have long Covid or if you have an injury, they have sort of dosing protocols. I don't adhere to it, you know, rigidly, but I generally start out with 0.2 milligrams per kilogram per day with food. And I say as long as you don't have any side effects, keep at it for at least a month.
- [61:27]
Jillian Michaels
Wow.
- [61:28]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
It's not like a lot of people. They don't just get an instant response. But I've, you know, and I've. I've gone way up on that dose too. In people that have some more severe problems and had some success. When you go up on that dose, like, it's hard to overdose on Ivermectin now. You can. So don't go crazy.
- [61:49]
Jillian Michaels
Of course it. Let's see your doctor. But no, no what to ask them. That's a. You know, of course, don't go treating yourself. Don't. Don't go treating yourself with Ivermectin. But. But my goal is that they would be like, hey, you know, I saw this podcast. What do you think about this? You know, here's the resource to try to empower people to have these conversations with their medical professional, because I have friends who have.
- [62:15]
Not a rash. But for example, my. I'll probably cut this out of the show because it just selfishly because it's boring. But my. My wife developed something called Anita Derma, which is this bizarre autoimmune condition. And I think it was there kind of latently, and she thought she had rosacea always. So she thought that she had gotten it from.
- [62:37]
Accutane, which cured up the. Cured up the rosacea. 100% was crazy. But then she developed this condition and the dermatologist had no idea what it was. She thought it was Accutane. And now we're like, holy shit. I wonder if it was the COVID shot. Because there was an absolute intersection of that shot. And so, and I as mentioned, I have a lot of friends who, who, who suffer with. So it's just, it's fascinating. Doc, is there anything I should have asked you that I didn't?
- [63:09]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Yeah, I'm not, I feel like we covered everything.
- [63:13]
It's kind of exhausting though. Sorry.
- [63:16]
Jillian Michaels
I know. But just in case. Is there any stone I left unturned?
- [63:21]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Oh yeah. How about this? So, politicians. I started a nonprofit called Americans for Health Freedom and basically to try to encourage politicians to state that the COVID shot should be pulled off the market. And I think I have about 240 politicians on this list. We have Thomas Massie on there, Marjorie Taylor Greene. We have Senator Ron Johnson, we have the Florida Surgeon General, Joe Latipo. But we also have a lot of state representatives and senators. We have precinct chairs, we have school board members.
- [64:00]
But it's basically the premise of courage is contagious. And I want to you know all the politicians out there who are no longer giving themselves these shots.
- [64:09]
Jillian Michaels
Yeah.
- [64:10]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
No longer giving them to their children because you have safety concerns, but you're staying silent. You know, your job is to protect your constituents and urge you to speak up. Because if these shots are not safe enough for you, if they're not safe enough for your children or your grandchildren, then they are certainly not safe enough for your constituents. So we just want people to speak up. You can go to americansforhealthfreedom.org and you can just sign the pledge and add your name to the list.
- [64:41]
Jillian Michaels
Doc, where can people go to follow you to get more from you? Tell them everything. Dr. Bowden.
- [64:48]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Oh, I'm active on X at MD Breathe. I have started doing a live stream on Wednesdays with Shannon Joy Overlap and then I do my own little show just trying to get more information out there. And then my, my office website is.
- [65:07]
Jillian Michaels
Breathemd.Org thank you so much for your time. You're very brave. Thank you for the sacrifices you've made.
- [65:16]
I consider, consider me, you know, an ally is the best of my ability and I, I, I really respect all that you've done and all this sacrifices stock. Thank you.
- [65:29]
Dr. Mary Talley Bowden
Well, I am thrilled we connected and I really appreciate you having me on.
- [65:33]
Jillian Michaels
Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please like comment, subscribe and share and make sure.
- [65:41]
Sponsor Narrator
To let me know what guests you.
- [65:43]
Jillian Michaels
Want to see on in the future.