The Truth About Race and America’s Fracture - Kaizen Aseidu

Summary

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Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels

Episode: The Truth About Race and America’s Fracture - Kaizen Asiadu
Date: October 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and candid episode, Jillian Michaels is joined by philosopher and Emmy-winning producer Kaizen Asiadu to tackle America's complex and divisive issues around race, tribalism, and the deterioration of civil discourse. Asiadu, creator of "Clear Thinker," delves into the origins and impact of race as a concept, the dangers of tribal identity, the role of victimhood and personal responsibility, and how social media amplifies division. The conversation is raw and vulnerable, featuring candid admissions, challenging questions, and concrete strategies for transcending today’s fractured environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Acknowledging the Darkness Within (00:59–05:47)

• Vulnerability and Self-Reflection:

  • Jillian opens up about her struggle not to succumb to divisiveness and anger, admitting she’s finding it hard to remain a unifying voice amidst unrest. She admires Kaizen’s ability to remain centered and seeks his guidance.

  • Kaizen responds, stressing that maintaining calm is a deliberate practice, not an innate trait.

    “It's work for me too, to stay calm and stay centered and stay rational… The first recognition that all of us need to have is that we all have light and darkness. We all have good and evil.”
    — Kaizen Asiadu (04:33)

• The Danger of Externalizing Evil:

  • Kaizen highlights the human tendency to project evil onto others (“the left,” “the right”) rather than recognizing one’s own darkness and role in the problem.

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2. Political Tribalism and Moral Responsibility (05:47–13:47)

• False Equivalence and Responsibility:

  • Jillian admits feeling pulled into tribalism and perceiving a disproportionate amount of political violence from the left.

  • Kaizen differentiates between acknowledging imbalance and taking responsibility for one’s own side. He invokes the analogy of personal relationships and the parable of the speck and the log.

    “We can hold both. And we don’t need to engage in this false equivalence by saying both sides are doing the same thing to the same degree. Because they're not. ...But Jesus said we shouldn't be so focused on the speck in someone else's eye that we miss the log in our own.”
    — Kaizen Asiadu (07:24)

• Responding vs. Retaliating:

  • Drawing on historical examples (MLK, Gandhi, Mandela), Kaizen argues for nonviolence and “putting water on the fire, not fighting fire with fire.”

    “They recognize violence begets more violence. ...the strongest thing to do because they recognize violence begets more violence.”
    — Kaizen Asiadu (12:10)

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3. Vigilantism, Boundaries, and the Role of the State (13:35–16:41)

• Handling Threats and Retaliation:

  • Jillian shares her response to online death threats aimed at her family and questions whether her actions (publicly exposing perpetrators) are justifiable.
  • Kaizen distinguishes between legal remedies and vigilantism, urging reliance on the state rather than personal retaliation.

  “Vigilante justice would be you retaliating and hunting them. ...we decide [to take justice into our own hands] is when we destabilize civilization.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (14:04)

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4. The Decline of Religion and Moral Objectivity (19:14–21:31)

• Loss of Moral Compass:

  • Jillian asks whether religion’s decline is at the root of today’s chaos. Kaizen agrees, emphasizing that belief in something greater than self provides objective principles and humility.

    “The utility of God is that it puts something above your own ego. ... It says there’s objective moral principles that I need to follow and if I don’t follow it’s going to lead to ruination.”
    — Kaizen Asiadu (19:19)

• The Power of Unconditional Principle:

  • “Treat others as you would like to be treated”—not conditionally, but as a foundational rule.

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5. Victimhood, Empowerment, and Personal Responsibility (24:22–28:29)

• Victim Mentality vs. Empowerment:

  • Jillian critiques the culture of victimhood in health, wellness, and society—where identifying as a victim is profitable but ultimately disempowering.
  • Kaizen clarifies: acknowledging circumstantial disadvantages is important, but indulging them isn’t; instead, focus on agency and transformation.

  “There are circumstances that we’re born into, and then there’s the choices we make in those circumstances. ... It’s choosing to constantly focus on what’s immutable about you, and you can’t change versus focusing on, what can I change?”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (27:21)

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6. The Concept of Race: Origins, Reality, and Utility (29:56–36:12)

• Race as a Social Construct:

  • Kaizen explains that race is not biologically real but a concept invented in the 18th century to justify slavery and establish a hierarchy.
  • Historical context: before the invention of race, societies like Rome did not see leadership or status through the lens of skin color.

  “Race is imaginary, and I think it’s not useful. … The concept of the nation state is not real. America’s not real. It’s an idea… But race isn’t a good idea.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (31:08 / 32:35)

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7. Tribal Instincts & Overcoming Division (37:36–43:40)

• Reptilian Survival Mind:

  • Jillian suggests our brains associate difference with danger. Kaizen agrees evolutionary instincts contribute, but higher-level concepts, like nationhood or shared humanity, can overcome them. He gives the example of national unity during crises (e.g., 9/11).

  “We need to find concepts that unify us past those divisions… the question is, what are the divisions and are they useful divisions to have?”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (38:42)

• Critique of Race-Based Division:

  • “What has race given to the human species? … Nothing.” (37:36)

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8. Generational Trauma & “White Fatigue” (46:54–54:59)

• Inherited Consequences vs. Responsibility:

  • Jillian voices common pushbacks: “My ancestors didn’t own slaves.” Kaizen identifies the conflation of descriptive truths (historical oppression) with prescriptive guilt (personal responsibility).
  • He advocates separating these—recognizing impacted starting points without assigning inherited guilt.

  “What is true is that people with dark skin used to be systematically oppressed… That’s different than a prescriptive claim, like you had something to do with it.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (49:15)

• Danger of Victim Spectacle:

  • Both discuss how labeling every act of allyship as “white saviorism” or every critique as “racism” creates paralysis and resentment across racial lines, harming genuine empathy and solidarity.

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9. Social Media, Perception, and Exaggeration of Division (62:06–66:32)

• Rise of Social Media & Racial Tension:

  • Kaizen pinpoints the 2013 rise of social media as a breakpoint for worsening race relations, where negativity and confirmation bias distort reality. Media cherry-picks events and amplifies rare tragedies, fueling collective anxiety and division.

  “Social media operates off of confirmation bias and negativity bias. ...there was not some spike around 2013 [in police violence]. It was relatively consistent and relatively rare as well.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (63:01)

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10. DEI, Affirmative Action, and Shared Opportunity (66:32–70:22)

• DEI Policies:

  • Jillian asks bluntly whether DEI is still needed. Kaizen distinguishes between outreach (valuable) and quotas (problematic), noting that historic narratives can deter black students from opportunities—even when practical barriers have fallen.

  “I’m in favor of policies that are more outreach based… However, we shouldn’t be saying… we’re gonna prioritize this person in the admissions process because of the color of their skin.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (68:04)

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11. Resentment and the Need to Transcend the Racial Paradigm (70:22–79:21)

• Pendulum of Resentment:

  • Both note the rise of white resentment and radicalization in response to being labeled as oppressors, predicting a dangerous feedback loop.
  • Kaizen emphasizes the need to disidentify from race-based labels and focus on shared identity—Americans, individuals, humans.

  “We need to get rid of the paradigm entirely and… identify where old concepts of race are still active today… and transcend it by saying, I’m not going to choose to subscribe to your label of being black.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (70:35 / 71:13)

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12. Understanding Racial Identity and Empathy (74:26–78:47)

• Why Maintain Racial Identity?:

  • Jillian wonders why some celebrities and individuals reinforce racial identity in their work or activism, hypothesizing it becomes economically or culturally self-limiting.
  • Kaizen explains that when people have been oppressed based on race, they may cling to that concept for safety and unity, but warns it can outlive its usefulness and stifle individual growth.

  “Race isn’t real. And yet when race as a concept is used to persecute a particular group... that group is going to come together around this concept of race, because it’s going to be the thing that keeps them strong amidst oppression.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (76:53)

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13. Transcending Group Identity—A Call for Individualism (78:47–81:09)

• From Group to Individual Experience:

  • Kaizen urges listeners to think and act as individuals, not groups, and to reject inherited narratives that no longer serve personal success or the common good. He shares that, personally, his own experience has been as much about opportunity as adversity.

  “Can we think as individuals, not as groups? ...That’s what we need to do.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (78:47)

• Final Words:

  • Kaizen concludes with an appeal for imperfection, honesty, and principle-driven living, rather than self-righteous crusading.

  “I don’t want people to be perfect. I just want us to be human about stuff rather than making everything this life or death struggle, good and evil. ...We just need principles.”
  — Kaizen Asiadu (81:09, 83:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Paraphrase | |-----------|-------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:33 | Kaizen Asiadu | "It's work for me too, to stay calm and stay centered and stay rational... we all have light and darkness." | | 07:24 | Kaizen Asiadu | "We can hold both. And we don’t need to engage in this false equivalence by saying both sides are doing the same..." | | 12:10 | Kaizen Asiadu | "Violence begets more violence... that’s the strongest thing to do." | | 14:04 | Kaizen Asiadu | “Vigilante justice would be you retaliating...that’s the whole thing that destabilizes civilization.” | | 19:19 | Kaizen Asiadu | “The utility of God is that it puts something above your own ego... objective moral principles that I need to follow.”| | 27:21 | Kaizen Asiadu | “We all are the hero or the victim... but it doesn’t warrant being indulged in.” | | 31:08 | Kaizen Asiadu | “America’s not real. It’s an idea... But race isn’t a good idea.” | | 38:42 | Kaizen Asiadu | “We need concepts that unify us past those divisions.” | | 49:15 | Kaizen Asiadu | “...people with dark skin used to be systematically oppressed... That’s different than a prescriptive claim...” | | 63:01 | Kaizen Asiadu | “Social media operates off of confirmation bias and negativity bias... [distorts] reality.” | | 68:04 | Kaizen Asiadu | “I’m in favor of policies that are more outreach based…we shouldn’t be... admissions because of the color of skin.” | | 70:35 | Kaizen Asiadu | “We need to get rid of the paradigm entirely and... transcend it.” | | 76:53 | Kaizen Asiadu | “Race isn’t real. And yet when race as a concept is used to persecute... that group is going to come together...” | | 78:47 | Kaizen Asiadu | “Can we think as individuals, not as groups? ...That’s what we need to do.” | | 81:09 | Kaizen Asiadu | “I don’t want people to be perfect. I just want us to be human about stuff...” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:59–05:47 — Vulnerability and internal darkness: admitting and combating personal biases
• 05:47–13:47 — Political violence, moral equivalency, and responsibility
• 13:35–16:41 — Handling threats, boundaries, the state vs. vengeance
• 19:14–21:31 — Religion’s societal role, moral objectivity, and foundational principles
• 24:22–28:29 — Victimhood, empowerment, and wellness narratives in society
• 29:56–36:12 — Race: invention, consequences, and the case for discarding it
• 37:36–43:40 — Tribalism, division, and the quest for unity
• 46:54–54:59 — Resentment, white fatigue, and the complexity of empathy
• 62:06–66:32 — The social media effect and the exaggeration of racial division
• 66:32–70:22 — DEI, affirmative action, and outlining effective outreach
• 70:22–79:21 — Rising resentment, radicalization, and the imperative to transcend group identity
• 74:26–78:47 — Understanding racial allegiance, the risk of outliving its usefulness
• 78:47–81:09 — From group narratives to individual agency

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Conclusion

This episode provides a courageous, unguarded exploration into the fraught territory of race, tribal affiliation, and societal breakdown. Asiadu urges listeners to reject inherited and divisive paradigms, to remain vigilantly self-aware and principle-driven, and to build a healthier, more unified nation by remembering our shared humanity.

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To learn more or connect with Kaizen Asiadu:

• Visit clearthinkeracademy.com
• Follow him on Substack and social media profiles for critical thinking resources and community discussion.

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“We just need principles. And we, we can recognize that identifying principles doesn’t need to turn into a personal attack either.”
— Kaizen Asiadu (83:09)

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Transcript

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[Jillian Michaels]

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[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, well, just to be clear, it's work for me too, to stay calm and stay centered and stay rational. So, yeah, I'm no one special. I think what you actually said is the solution. You just got vulnerable and admitted you're being pulled to the darkness and you feel that.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm feeling it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And the first recognition that all of us need to have is that we all have light and darkness. We all have good and evil. And unfortunately, what's happening right now is rather than pointing the finger at ourselves and saying, what can I do? How can I be better? How can I not give into darkness? We externalize evil and darkness. And we say, it's those people over there. It's the left, it's the right, it's Trump, it's the Democrats. Whatever it is. And here's a problem, it's not that that's wrong, but we all are contributing both to the problem and potentially the solution. So when I say that I'm doing great, it's cause I choose to do great. Honestly, I choose to say, hey, I can either view the world as ending and there's nothing I can do about it and everything sucks, and why was I born into this time? And everything's terrible.

[Jillian Michaels]

Or.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Or I could say, okay, this is an opportunity to do something important and something useful with my life.

[Jillian Michaels]

I am definitely falling into a tribalism with the red and the blue. And here's the problem. If I look at your entire narrative, right, it's a concept. I get it. But when 1. I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. And I have avoided it, but I'm doing it because we gotta talk. Someone's gotta talk it through with me. I've tried the both sides. I've tried it, but I don't see it on both sides at all in any sort of proportionate way. I see the left inciting far more violence. I see the left shutting down conversations. I see the left using pejoratives. I see the left rioting. I don't see it on the right. And I am like, I don't know how to have unity with you guys anymore. I don't know how to do it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, let's talk about this.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm losing it, babe.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

This is a great talk.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm losing it. Let's talk about it. I'm starting to get angry.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. So we started off this conversation with you talking about the dark impulses in you.

[Jillian Michaels]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, I want to. I'm, like, ready to be like, okay, dude. Yeah, I'm gonna. Like, I. Like. I did not call for the cancellation of Kimmel because I know it's wrong, and I refuse to be a hypocrite, and I despise cancellation. M. But if you don't think I was so happy when they pulled and I was just. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Stop.

[Jillian Michaels]

Stop. But deep down, I was like, you. You deserve this, you hypocrite. I ne. I don't want it. I'm glad he's back on the air. I don't believe in it. But. But. But.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

And.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And I'm not gonna tell you how to feel. Right. I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Tell me. Not feel this way.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

No, But. But you. But you also said you're glad he's back on air.

[Jillian Michaels]

I didn't act on it. I'm only telling you the deep underlying feelings I was struggling with. I've never said anything. I didn't call for it. The opposite.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

But how I felt inside was dark.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yes. And that's because there's darkness in you, just like there's darkness in me. And we don't have control over whether the Darkness exists. We have the control over the choices we make despite the darkness. So we all have preferences. That's okay. Like you can have a preference for Team Red or for Team Blue. And I believe that right now there's a lot of mental illness and evil, just straight up evil. And I think it's more prevalent on the left right now. Not exclusive to the left. Nope. But statistically, I mean, if you look at Luigi Mangione, the, the, the minority of people were celebrating what he did, but that minority was majority represented on the left. Same thing with general acceptance of political violence as a means to a political end. YouGov just did a poll and they found that the biggest group that was in support of using violence to support a political end was very liberal people who. People classified as very liberal. But Jesus said we shouldn't be so focused on the speck in someone else's eye that we miss the log in our own. It doesn't mean there's not a speck in someone else's eye. It means take responsibility 100% for what's in your eye, as you point out what's in someone else's eye too. Why does this matter? Well, think about this, right? Let's say we're in a relationship and we have a fight and you did messed up things to me. I, I didn't mess up things to you. Let's say I did more messed up things to you than you did to me. Right? But if you're not willing to take ownership of your part, I'm not going to care because I'm going to be like, well, why should I? You did this bad thing too. And why do I have to take all the responsibility? That's part of what's happening between the right and the left. Constantly. Every discussion becomes about instead of, you know what? I did this messed up thing. You know what? Maybe the FCC chairman shouldn't have threatened Jimmy Kimmel and he shouldn't have done that. And, and when YouTube censored a bunch of conservative voices, that shouldn't have happened either. We can, we can hold both. And we don't need to engage in this false equivalence by saying both sides are doing the same thing to the same degree. Because they're not. They're just not right now. Majority of a celebration of political violence on the left. What I'm saying, though, is what I see is a lot of rhetoric from some people on the right where it's like, it's good versus evil. We're good. Oh, yeah, they're evil. And it's like 100. No, no, no, no. We all have good and evil in us. We're all sinners. Let's recognize that. Because if you recognize that you have a very different approach to healing the evil that you see in someone else instead of this being, you're going to go in like a crusader and you're going to decapitate everyone and you're going to come with self righteous justice, you're going to be calm, you're going to try to de escalate things. You're not going to fight fire with fire. You're going to put water on it. And by the way, that was actually a lot of what I saw at the Charlie Kirk Memorial. I know that a lot of people have been focusing on Stephen Miller's speech which was very fire and brimstone, but there were like at least five other speeches where people were talking about Christ. They're talking about what would Charlie want? Erica Kirk said, I forgive them. I forget which speaker. But they said, hey, even while we're correcting them, we can still be compassionate toward them. Something to that effect. Which is the right message. When someone is acting in a deranged fashion and throwing tantrums and is a danger to you and your, and everyone around you and themselves, you do need to subdue them.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Right. You need to disarm them, you need to, you need to put them in a chokehold essentially and be like, okay, you're like, you're bananas.

[Jillian Michaels]

There's no unity with you. You're insane. Yeah, I did that. Like isolated and marginalized. You know what I was thinking of? And I'm not trying to take you too far off, but to give you an example of contain them. I was thinking, did MLK talk to people who were lynching blacks or people with darker skin? No, he didn't talk to them but he, he focused highlighted on the do gooders, focused on getting his message out. He didn't try to create unity with a person who was lynching a black person.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, I, I don't know if he ever actually spoke to racist. That would be something interesting to look into.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't think so. I did, I did look into it because I was looking for guidance.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But, but, but the genius, the genius of Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela is even though they had the power to be violent back because they were very influent not to. Why? Not because they were weak, but because that's the strongest thing to do because they recognize violence begets more violence.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I have every reason to rile up my followers to retaliate. But if I retaliate, it always comes back to me. So I have to be the one who says, no more. We're stopping the cycle. That's what I'm getting at when I say, hey, we all have evil inside of us. Don't be so focused on the evil in another that you allow your evil to come out in a retaliatory fashion. But of course, you need to have boundaries. You need to have consequences. You need to have. Have these things because they're corrective. You're not going to allow yourselves to.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's a healthy boundary and a healthy consequence. I can't even tell anymore. Like, I now that we're getting death. We get death threats since cnn, to be honest. Lots of them to my wife. My kids were getting them. So I made all, you know, all their things were private. A few people managed to get through to follow them, I guess because my wife just got some new ones I don't like. I don't pay attention to my comments because I honestly don't have the time. And I very rarely post on anything but X. But okay. I got to the point where I was like, okay, next one of you mother that sends a death threat, I'm gonna put your information on my page. I'm gonna file a police report, and I'm gonna send it straight to the FBI. I've done that with three people now. And I'm like, am I losing it? Is this vigilante justice? Cause I'm like, think again. You better be real sure. You wanna tell my wife to.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Weird.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're gonna die slow. Sure. Yeah. Like that. Like I. You. Yeah, what do. What would you do? Yeah, what would you do?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, first of all.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, my God.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Sorry. On a human level, I'm sorry. On a human level, we get tons of them. Yeah, that's horrible.

[Jillian Michaels]

But it makes you like, I'm gonna. It just.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That's very human. Yeah, it's very human. And it's not vigilante justice to report them to the police.

[Jillian Michaels]

I did. Okay, we are.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Because vigilante justice would be you retaliating and hunting them. And that's the whole thing that destabilizes civilization when we decide is putting them.

[Jillian Michaels]

On blast doing that, though.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, I think you doing that on your personal platforms would be retaliation.

[Jillian Michaels]

I did. It was two of them.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I think it's just going to beget the same cycle. Look, this is what people want to.

[Jillian Michaels]

Be like, you want to play ball Help me. Losing my mind. I never do this.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I get it. And when you're under a tremendous amount of stress, you're going to make stressed out decisions. But I want to just build this from the bottom. The bottom line of nature is violence without society. People resolve things through violence. And that was happening the majority of human history in the majority of places. The triumph of human civilization is we said, hey, look, this whole violent cycle thing is hurting me and it's hurting you. Even if I win today, I'm going to lose tomorrow, so let's stop doing this.

[Jillian Michaels]

Got it?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It doesn't mean violence doesn't exist, but it says we're going to give up our ability to be violent toward each other as citizens and give that to the state. And the state is a much more stable and fair judge of when to mete out violence than we are as individuals. So when we have an issue with another citizen, the thing to do is report it to the state, which you did, and say, hey, the state needs to restrain this person. If I restrain this person, it's going to get really messy really fast. And I can't trust my judgment to do that in this moment. Obviously, if it comes to your door and you need to defend yourself, you got to defend yourself.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, no, they're, they're, they're death threats. Over social.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. Social media.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, they're all over social media.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. And, and that's, you know, that's a death threat. That's illegal.

[Jillian Michaels]

They find ways to do it too, because it's like, well, block the words, dumbass. We did they spell it D, Y, E. You know, they find a way. How much time do you have, by the way?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Really? To re. How many times did you rework these words to find a way to say, like, I'll kill you slowly. Yeah. But like, you make a great. Okay, so you're saying use every legal remedy available to you and try to maintain your humanity because it's just a vicious cycle. I need a. You know what we need? We need guardrails. I'm not kidding. You need to put something on clear thinker, like, okay, if someone calls you this, if they do this to you, if they do that to you, like, here's a healthy way of containing this.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, I mean, look, obviously, you know, I'm not dealing with death threats and.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, you. You will be.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I'm sure I will eventually.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're definitely going to be into Charlie Kirk's funeral. You definitely will be. I'm shocked.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And it comes with the territory. And look, my, my philosophy on it is I'm not going to give it energy. Like, even with haters. Like, I just don't respond to haters because, look, a lot of it, it's actually kind of in a weird way, they really want you.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Like, they want your attention, they want your energy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's a cry for help.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've always known this.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And, and here's the thing. Like, if a, if a, if a child is misbehaving, you don't reward the child with more attention. Oh, I'm gonna give you what you want or I'm gonna get mad. And now you got the emotional response you're looking for. You just like you're having a tantrum right now. I'm gonna ignore that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah. You know.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Okay. And when you're willing to act like an adult and you can express what you. What you have a problem with, we can have that discussion. And I think that's a problem. That's the non retaliatory stance we need to take. Doesn't mean if it hit you, it's like, whoa, all right, now we gotta put you down. We gotta subdue you. So you can't do this anymore because now you've crossed a physical boundary. Same thing if they're sending you death threats. Now we gotta report this to the cops. But it's not from a retaliation. Like, I'm gonna get this person or.

[Jillian Michaels]

Any was coming from. When I reposted this guy, I was like, I, I. And people feel it that dark. And I was like, this is not who you are. You know, you're not supposed to do this. Like, you know, I know what to do. But I, I was like, mother it. Like I just wanted to be like, who's. There's a part of me that just. And I have done so much to like put that part down, you know, and like, and I know better. But to see these people being like Charlie Kirk a pee the neck celebrate good. I want. I, like, the feelings were so intense, Kaisen. Like, I. Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And I could have.

[Jillian Michaels]

I. I'm not kidding. Like, I could have. I could have just. I could have punched that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I, like, I got it. I got it. That. And that's. That exists outside of all of us.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

Gotta just reason through it. I didn't do anything and didn't say anything.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's. It's not the impulse. It's not that. It's not the. The feeling is not a problem. It's what you do.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's what you do. Right. That's what celebrate. That separates us from the animals. Animals have feelings and they just act on it. What separates us from the animals is we have a conscience.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yep.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

We have principles.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And we act on those principles despite our baser instincts.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is that what religion is, do you think? It's like, well, Christ said this, I have guidelines.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I think religion is one of the core things that we've lost in society that's creating so many of these problems. Because the idea of religion, you don't. Even if you don't believe in God, the idea, the utility of God is that it puts something above your own ego. It says there's objective moral principles that I need to follow and if I don't follow is going to lead to ruination. That's the utility of God, even if you're a secularist. The problem is we've disposed with not just the idea of God, but the idea of moral objectivity. If you don't have moral objectivity, you get to make up all the rules for reality. And by the way, not only are there rules for reality, if you want to have a good life, it's humbling to have the idea that, hey, I'm not actually calling the shots. I don't get to just choose whatever choices I want and get whatever consequences I want. So, yeah, this is why the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated is so powerful. It's not just some moral edict. It's actually descriptively true. If I start yelling at you right now, very likely you're going to start yelling at me. Might not be now, might not be in a minute, but eventually you're probably going to lose it. Now, does that mean, does that mean you're excused in yelling at me? No, but I'm engaging in a pattern of cause and effect that is likely to elicit a reaction. So let me do everything in my control to act the way I would like to be treated. That's what's we're all being called to and the. The like. Even I went to Catholic school, but I didn't really have a relationship with God for most of my life until a few years ago. And it's only recently that I started to revisit the teachings of, of Jesus. And I. I just look at this like, look, you can ignore the stories of divinity if you're not ready for that, it's not for you. What he was saying was timeless wisdom.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That you can observe in your own interpersonal dynamics. And we need the idea of truth, of universal principles that if we all follow, we all get to have a good time. Because that's what everyone wants. We just want to all have a good time. And the principle is not treat others as you would like to be treated, but only if they treat you like the way you would like to be treated first. No, that's not how it works. That's not how principles work. Principles are not conditional. You do it unconditionally. So when you feel that evil impulse, I feel it too. Just to be clear.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like, it's that time. It's Skims time. If, like me, you have had the hardest time with underwear that creeps up the center of your rear end so uncomfortable. Or the panty lines that you see through clothes. Or those inserts that come in certain bras that when you wash them they roll up like little hot dogs. It's just. I'm sorry, but I. I know you know what I'm talking about. Bras that give you the little armpit bulge right here, but don't give you the boost where you need it. I I could Essential and on I love Skims the Fits Everybody T Shirt bra. The Fits Everybody Boy short are my go to. I live in them. Literally. And you can shop my favorite bras and my favorite [e-mail] after you place your order. Do me a favor and please be sure to let them know that I sent you. Just select podcast in the survey and be sure to select my show in the drop down menu that follows. And just remember, Fits Everybody T Shirt bra Fits Everybody Boy shorts. You're going to love [e-mail] select podcast in the survey and be sure to select My show in the dropdown menu that follows that sound. That is the sound of an idea turning into income. If you got a business dream or even just a great product name in your notes app, Shopify can be the catalyst to make it real. So many of my personal companies and the companies I invest in use Shopify. From Alaya Naturals to my own Jillianmichaels.com, shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide, powering about 10% of all E commerce in the U.S. they meet you where you're at. What if you can't design a website? Shopify's got you. They got beautiful ready to go templates that match your brand's vibe. What if you need a hand? I mean, you can use all of Shopify's AI tools that are built for commerce to enhance product photos, write product descriptions and Even generate discount codes. What if no one's ever heard of you? Well guess what? You can find customers with easy email and social media campaigns all in one place. And what if you get stuck? Well, there's an award winning 247 support from real humans who've seen it as. So if you've been waiting for a sign, this is it. Build the store, launch the product, ship the first order, turn those dreams into and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com Jillian go to shopify.com Jillian that's shopify.com Jillian.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I'm a very intense person. Okay. Like this stuff going on in my brain at all the time that I need to like check just like every other human being. Right.

[Jillian Michaels]

And it makes me feel better.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Oh yeah, for sure. Just to be super clear. And that's my work.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like how does he have this lucidity? Because I am losing it and I, I, I. This means so much to me. And, and the reason I think outside of this being a personal therapy session, I really do think people watching are not only feeling the way that I am feeling, I think they are acting on it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. And here's the thing. It's like not all, but not all. But there's a fringe and it's growing and it's scary. And I'm not telling people ignore your feelings. Like your feelings are valuable data and your whole life is a feeling based experience. Right. Like why do we make any logical decision? Because we think it's going to lead to a better feeling in the short term or the long term. What I'm saying is understand where these things go. I think a lot of the people who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death didn't understand that. I'm not. No, I'm not asking you to mourn him. I'm not asking you to feel a certain way. How you feel is largely involuntary. I'm telling you if you're rationally self interested, you want to condemn the principle of what was just violated here. Because if it can happen to him because you thought he was a hateful person, what happens when someone thinks that you're the hateful person and decide to be violent toward you. That's why all people of sound mind need to say it actually doesn't matter how you felt about Charlie Kirk. It doesn't matter if you thought he was the devil himself. The principle is we don't allow people to be violent toward other people who are Exercising free speech, because if it happens to them, it can happen to me. That's the point. People are so caught up in. Well, I feel. I feel it's about principles. Principles protect us all. And the moment one person violates principles, everyone's principles are up for grabs. And that's hard because that takes personal responsibility. And I think, unfortunately, that's not a cool word these days. Responsibility?

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, hell no. It's all about, I don't even need this to interview you. I don't need any setting this down so I can see you. But it is all about indulging in victimhood. And I don't want to go to a far off piece because you're on a beautiful train of thought. But in health and wellness, that's a huge narrative to profiteer off of. Oh, you're genetically this way. You know, you need this drug or don't. Don't bother trying, or da, da, da, da. And I've always fought that narrative, and historically, it was, oh, you're a fat shamer. You hate fat people. I'm like, sure, whatever. And, you know, and then there were the people that could see through it, and they appreciated that I was trying to empower people by saying, and if you live in this victim mentality, you're fundamentally disempowered to change anything. While there was a time in your life that you were a victim, the choices that you have made in response to that are killing you. And you could live in that world. There was a healthy amount of support to juxtapose the overwhelming criticism. But now everybody is a victim, and people love it. And I think they've been conditioned to love it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Mm. Well, it's interesting because this word victim has become so loaded. And here's the truth. There are circumstances that we're born into, and then there's the choices we make in those circumstances. And just like we all have good and evil, we all are the hero or the victim. We all have things about our birth or our skin color or our sex that we didn't choose, obviously. And then we're born into a time that has a society that looks at all those attributes a certain way that deserves to be acknowledged, but it doesn't warrant being indulged in. Which is the actual problem when I think people are saying victimhood. It's choosing to constantly focus on what's immutable about you, and you can't change versus focusing on, what can I change? Where can I be powerful? How can I alchemize this bad into good? And that's the message of empowerment. I think people need to hear. Cause it would be dishonest to say, you know, we're going to talk about race relations.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, we have to. I'm completely lost. And it's the first time in my life I think I would ever say that to you.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think when you. When you're saying even that needs to be acknowledged. I don't even know what needs to be acknowledged anymore.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

I can't. And I think. I'm so sorry to. I don't mean to interrupt you. Just to put the full thought out there of what I mean by that is from my perspective, right? We watched the Boomers and they burned bras for women. And, you know, they. They marched alongside MLK and all of the good guys, right? Marched alongside MLK and fought for civil rights and all of these things. And then I'm a kid, and there's still one black person on the magazine cover, and there's only one black show on tv. It's the Cosby show, right? And we start consuming the Cosby show and nwa. And we're buying the tickets, we're buying the T shirts, we're casting the ballots. My generation was the one race, human love is love. And I thought we were doing a great job right up until 2020. And there is so much anger and so much rage and so much that needs to be acknowledged, and black people get pissed. I shouldn't need to tell you. And it's like, I think you're gonna have to. I can't figure out what the. You're still so mad about and you want allies, but when you tell me, like, I'm the root of all your problems, how am I supposed to be an ally when you've. You've already made me your enemy? I don't even know what you need. Help me.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, let me help.

[Jillian Michaels]

Help us.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Let me help. So let me first talk about this idea of race to begin with, because I think that's actually the fundamental problem. Things that are real exist independently of the mind. So this table is real. We are real. These microphones are real. Whether I think they exist or not, they exist. They're mind independent. Things that are not real are concepts like race. It's not real.

[Jillian Michaels]

Genetically, it's not real. Right. You can't tell off of a DNA test if a person is Asian or Caucasian or black.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Race is a concept that we use to refer to certain genetic correlates like melanin. But race itself is not real. It's a Very arbitrary way of looking at these genetic correlates.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But there's tons of things that aren't real that are still useful. For example, the concept of the nation state is not real. America's not real. It's an idea, and it's a set of laws and customs and norms that we all agree to and we say, we're Americans. This is what it means. This is how we coordinate. So that's useful, but it's not real. Right. You can't touch. You can't feel America. It exists in our collective minds.

[Jillian Michaels]

What if I made the case it's this land here?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's not. I mean, the land exists in reality. But can you touch the border of America?

[Jillian Michaels]

I could tell you this. I can tell. Okay. I'm just. I'm just playing devil's advocate to play devil's advocate. Work with me. I was just. Come on, Jill. Where were you? Kenya. I was just in Kenya. And they literally have markers.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

That define the border with Tanzania. They're like, you have one foot in Tanzania and one foot in Kenya. Yeah, Tanzania, Kenya. And they made it tangible.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

Literally, I stand on the market.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It was like sticks or lines or something.

[Jillian Michaels]

Little cement.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Okay, cool. The cement is real. And then we make the story about the cement. Oh, where the cement is is the end of Kenya and the start of the next nation over. So you can have a wall and say, this is the border separating America and Mexico. But the wall is a wall. That's a real thing. The story that the wall separates two nation states isn't real. That doesn't mean it's not important, just to be clear, because people feel like, oh, my God, he's saying it's not real. I love America.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know. You're a huge patriot.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I think it's an awesome concept. And what it is, is a concept that we all agree to because we realize that that concept has a real impact. That concept allows me and you to relate to something and say, yeah, we all agree to these rules. We agree that if we have a dispute we're not going to resolve through combat, we're going to resolve it through civil means.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So there's things that are real and there are things that are imaginary. Race is imaginary, and I think it's not useful. Right. So if something's imaginary and it's useful, great, let's use it. I think America's a great idea. I don't think race is a good idea. And if you look at the origin of race, it was never meant to be Something that was actually good and pro humanity.

[Jillian Michaels]

It was meant to make slaves.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It was meant to justify slavery. Yeah. So in the 18th century, Johann Blumenbach, who was a physician, invented the idea of race eugenics. Well, not quite. He looked at different skull sizes and he separated them into five categories and he said, okay, this is like the Caucasian skull because these come from the Caucasus Mountains. These are the African skulls, the Asian skulls. So he went off skull measurements. He was actually a Christian. He didn't believe that these skulls were equal or lesser or greater moral worth. He just thought they were different. And he thought that the white skulls were the most beautiful. But that's as far as he went. Which was already an error by him because, like, who gets to decide that?

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh my God.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But then, then, then another man came around. His name is Georges Cuvier. He said, ooh, let me take this idea of race and create a hierarchy. And that was literally the invention of white supremacy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Skulls.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, off of skulls. And I mean, I didn't even know this. Yeah. And people don't realize race is literally made up and it's a recent invention and it was used to then justify an economic system of slavery. So when I talk about race, it's like I talk in the language of the culture that we're born into because we live in a racialized society. Like the moment you meet someone like, oh, that's a black person, that's a white person. This is new. Race is new and it sucks and we need to stop using it. If you look at societies, great societies that predated America, they didn't have the idea of race. If you look at Rome in the year 193 A.D. there was a man named Septimius Severus. He was what we might call black. He was just a dark skinned guy and he happened to be from Libya. He became Emperor of Rome. People didn't look at him like, oh, he's black. They looked at him like he's a Roman, he's legit, he's accomplished things, let's let him be emperor. But in this world that we've created, rather than just saying people are just different shades of melanin. It's like it'll be weird to say, oh, you're a brunette person, you have the brunette race or the blonde race or the black haired race, like it would be. It's an absurd concept. But we're so entrenched in this paradigm that was literally created for racism and it just keeps on perpetuating racism. But race isn't real. And we're attached, everyone's being too attached to this racial concept that is only about 200 years old and we could discard of at any moment. So when we talk about like what people say is like a victimhood narrative, I think what people are saying is that, hey, this racial concept has been used to oppress people unfairly. And that's true.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yep.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And even though there's way less oppression than there used to be, there's still inconsistencies in the system. For example, black people are more likely to be incarcerated. Per capita.

[Jillian Michaels]

Get unfair sentences.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. Unfair sentences is redlining.

[Jillian Michaels]

Wrongly convicted.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. Wrong convictions.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And it's obviously way less bad than it used to be, but it still exists. And then there's still the effects of, you know, if your great, great grandfather was a sl. Yeah, you're not going to have compounding wealth that was passed down to him and that made your family rich in the year 2000. Of course that exists. But I, and I think the fundamental problem here is we continue to be attached to this idea of race when it caused the problems that we're talking about in the first place.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So how about instead of viewing people as, you're a white person and I'm a black person, it's like, no, you're a human being and you're a woman, because woman actually is a thing. Biological female. Right. And I'm a human being.

[Jillian Michaels]

Careful with that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I'm a, I'm a male words for people. It really shouldn't be because that's a biological fact. And I'm a male. You have lighter skin, I have darker skin. That's about as far as the conversation should really go. We don't have to ignore the fact that you have lighter skin, I have darker skin. But all these stories that we create about what it needs to mean, it needs to mean, oh, you have an affinity for every other person with lighter skin over people with darker skin. Or I have to have an affinity for every other person with darker skin over people with lighter skin. It doesn't make any sense and it's not a useful concept. So again, America is a concept, but it's a useful one. Why? Because the idea of liberal democracy and laws and free speech, all of these have allowed us to scale a civilization that's given a lot to the world. And it's not just America. China, Japan, France, the uk, all of these are ideas. But the idea of a nation state has allowed us to scale from hunter gatherer tribes of hundreds of people to a civilization of 9 billion people, nation states, work. What has race given to the human species?

[Jillian Michaels]

Nothing. Here's my question though. Well, I have a million, but okay. I'm under the impression that our reptilian mind sees difference and sees danger. You are not like me. Your skin is different than me. You pray to a different God. You, you, your sexual orientation is different. Danger. Difference is danger. Is there truth to this in your, in your beliefs that this sort of survival instinct to see difference as danger is real? And if it is real, which it seems very much to be, what can we do about it? Because then inherently it's like, okay, you can tell me we're the same, but you're black and I'm white and you'll see evil white, racist, you know, and I might see lesser black person. And then what? Then what?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, so we need to find concepts that unify us past those divisions. So to give you a little thought experiment, if we all got an alert on our phones that aliens attacked us, we would forget about all of this nonsense real quick because we would say, wait a second, there's an enemy that's clearly way different than us, that is trying to kill all of us, so we better get united real quick. So when we have a common enemy, I mean the time that we were most united in America in Recent history was 9, 11, right? Because you know, obviously those division in the country before, but when you have a foreign invader or a foreign enemy attacking you, all of a sudden you forget about your divisions real quick. So the question is not are there divisions? Because there are. The question are, is what are the divisions and are they useful divisions to have? So for example, I think family is actually a useful form of division. The idea that you have a family and you're responsible for taking care of them, and I have a family and I'm responsible for taking care of it. I think that's a useful unit of organization, right? Because if we said, oh well, family doesn't matter, then it's like, well, who's going to take care of the kids in your family and who's going to take care of the kids in mine, right? So you have family, then you have your community. So your local community, like who you live around, you want to be more concerned with the well being of those people than someone who's 2,000 miles away, right? And then you have the level of country. It's like, okay, cool, we're all unified in America. Me taking care of America is not more important than me taking care of my family, but it is Important and it unites me across the division of family. The problem with race is it's a fixed, rigid form of division that doesn't allow for actual growth. Because what happens is again, for example, if we look at Rome, rome existed for 2000 years. How did it survive so long? It survived attacks by barbarians, it survived the rise of Christianity. Right. Christianity was actually originally a threat to Rome because Rome was able to adapt. It incorporated these different cultures, it incorporated Christianity. They were smart enough to realize, hey, we can't make the thing that we're united on skin color. Because all of a sudden if a bunch of people with different skin color are introduced to Rome because it's an empire, all of a sudden we don't have anything binding us together anymore. So what is actually Rome? Rome is the norms and the customs and laws that we call Roman. That's how you have a situation where you can have a dark skinned emperor of Rome and everyone's like, it's totally cool. Like what? Who cares if he has dark skin? He's a Roman. In America we don't have that anymore. We don't have this idea of what America even is or that it's a good thing, by the way. So when you don't have a unifying concept of America and a shared purpose, you start focusing on these, these forms of division that actually aren't useful. And you can't build anything with that. You can't build anything with the idea of race.

[Jillian Michaels]

No.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And we need, yeah, it just is literally a destructive concept and it just keeps on feeding upon itself. Now part of the problem here is look, and again, I hate these terms, but people from Africa were met by people from Europe. And then people from Europe said, hey, you're black. And then Africans were looking around like, what do you mean we're black? What is this black thing? It's like it's just us around here and occasionally, you know, some like traders from, from, you know, from the Arab world come here. But what is this black? It's like, no, you're black, you're black, you're black. And eventually they're like, I guess I'm black. And they internalized this racial narrative that didn't exist in Africa. No one was talking about race in Africa before Europeans came. And obviously it's not all Europeans, but the slavers who came from Europe.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And they, the reason that they kept telling them that is because they realized, well, if we tell these people there's something different, they're going to view themselves as something different rather than humans deserving of equal dignity. And they'll internalize the slave narrative. So every time we continue to operate within this racial paradigm, we continue to sow the same. We continue to perpetuate the same thing that they were trying to do in the first place.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can I push back? I'm not pushing back to. Because I. I'm pushing back because I'm. I'm thinking what. What the audience might be thinking. Okay, so number one, did they not see white people and go, they're white. They must have. I mean, surely there are accounts of, like, those people are white. They look different than me. They didn't. There was none of. Kind of.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

I mean, like, what the hell is that coming out of the ocean?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. You might notice someone looks different, but the question is, what story do you make around?

[Jillian Michaels]

So they made a story to Africans saying, you're black.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, yeah. That was the invention of race and racial hierarchies. And then they created a hierarchy, and they said, well, white people are at the top, black people at the top.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm not trying to play stupid. I actually just thought it was like, you're different.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

No, no, no.

[Jillian Michaels]

I mean, I see that. You see that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

No, the Mali Empire, the Roman Empire, There are all these empires before that functioned without the idea of race, and they had different people, people of different colors. Again, it's not that people were colorblind, which is also a fiction. Like, you can't not see it. It's a story that you make around.

[Jillian Michaels]

Around it. Got it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That's what it is.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So the story that you make is you have a different skin color. Like, imagine if I said, you know, you're. What are you? Brunette?

[Jillian Michaels]

Ish. Depends on the hair color, but yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Born brunette.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. And then I made a whole story about what that must mean and how you must be tribally affiliated with other brunettes. Like, it would be like doing that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So this idea that we have to attach all this story. That's the problem. These. All these things are mental.

[Jillian Michaels]

I have another question.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. So slavery has existed, I would argue, since the dawn of humanity. How did one people enslave another if. If it. Race wasn't invented until the 1800s? So, like, the Egyptians enslaved the Jews, and the Arabs enslaved the Africans, and some Africans enslaved some other Africans and Native American like it. This whole thing, Everybody's an imperialist at one point or another. Every race has worn the whips and the chains. What is that then? If it's not a. If it's not a Skin color game and it's been going on for thousands of years. What is that?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, it's just a primitive economic system. That's all like. And obviously in hindsight we realize, oh, this is evil. And at the time, I mean, I'm talking about pretty much all of human time, it was just the way that you resolved things was combat. If you win, then you get to do whatever you want. Might is right. That was the idea. And fortunately we emerged from that, those dark ages with enlightenment ideals of all men are created equal. And no, you don't get to just take what you want. We have rules and we have customs and norms. And the reason we have those things is because we believe it's morally right. And part of the reason is cause it's just rationally self interested. Who wants to live in a society where it's just might is right because you might be the winner today, but you might be a loser tomorrow. So I think we, we realize that and that's why liberal democracy, I'm talking about like America and what, what we're doing here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Is such an advanced and evolved concept because it's completely different than how we did things for the majority of human history in the majority of societies. But yeah, it was a primitive economic system and people, their morality was strength. And we, we evolved past that and we said, hey, you know what, Instead of killing each other and enslaving each other, what if we had rules that say, no, you can't just kill someone because you want their stuff and you can't just kill someone because you disagree with them. You actually have to appeal to this imaginary concept called laws. And if we all appeal to this imaginary concept called laws, guess what? You get to thrive and I get to thrive. But in these zero sum systems that we used to have, very few people could win. And if very few people can win, you can't sustain a planet of 9 billion people.

[Jillian Michaels]

I want to back up to the, to the part where you were saying if your ancestors are slaves, you haven't had an opportunity to build generational wealth. I want to say the quiet part out loud because this is what everyone says when there's no black people in the room. My ancestors didn't own slaves.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I.

[Jillian Michaels]

Guilty is charged, by the way. Okay, Grandmother's a Russian Jew. They weren't enslaving anybody as far as I know. And my father's Syrian and Lebanese. I'm like, don't I hold the moral high ground here? I didn't have any ancestors that were slaves. You don't get to pay. Even though I think that's ridiculous. It's like saying, is the child of a rapist evil? Like, if the rapist impregnates somebody while raping them, are we blaming the baby now for this crime? It's like, okay, so. But I know this argument. And, And I've even been guilty of being like, don't put that on me. I didn't do this to you. I. I didn't enslave your people. My ancestors didn't enslave you. But I didn't write the redlining laws. I didn't write the segregation laws. My grandparents came here as immigrants. They came here with nothing. I. I didn't benefit off of this. I. It. And it immediately, immediately becomes. And I never, by the way, used to be like this. I used to feel like, I know there was one black person on the magazine. I know that there was one black show on tv. I know the history of this, and I'm your ally. Then you become the white savior. So now it's like, oh, white savior. And you're like, okay, I'm not going to get involved in this at all. Then it's like, not only are you, you know, the white savior, you're the white devil. And then now you. You can't even. You don't even understand how to be empathetic. What about that guy? What do we say to that guy that he. That say to me? What do I need to know? What is it that I need to do better? What am I not understanding? How can you be an ally? Because it feels, Kaizen, like a lose, lose. And anybody who's like, I don't want to hear your black fatigue. Okay, you can say that all you want, but this is the. That people are saying, and it's dangerous, in my opinion.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. So here's the thing. We can separate descriptive claims from prescriptive claims. So descriptively, what is true is that people with dark skin used to be systematically oppressed in this country.

[Jillian Michaels]

100%. Got it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And descriptively, what's true is the conditions of your ancestors are going to affect the starting line that you start at in life.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That's different than a prescriptive claim, like you had something to do with it, or everyone else who looks like the oppressor from a hundred or two hundred years ago has something to do with it. We need to disambiguate these things. They're not.

[Jillian Michaels]

They're completely conflated.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, we're conflating the descriptive claims with them. Prescriptive claims. And that's where you get into stuff like, oh, well, you, you, I have moral status over you because of your skin color. Like, no, no, no, we're all equals and we can recognize that we don't all have equal things happened in our lineage. Yep. Right. And, and by the way, this is not just down to people of the same skin color. Like, there are people with light skin who came from places where there are genocides.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, well, that's where we keep going. Right. My grandmother ran from the Nazis, so. Na na, na, na na. And it becomes like a.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And the error here, the error here is constantly conflating your circumstances with your ancestors circumstances and treating your circumstances as deterministic because of what your ancestors did. It's like, look, there's a whole bunch of things that control your starting line that you didn't get to choose. You get to choose your finish line, though. And yeah, you might start at an earlier point in the race than someone else who was like a trust fund kid whose family went back multiple generations though.

[Jillian Michaels]

See, like, what if I say I'm not that freaking trust fund kid. I'm supposed to be on your side of the thing, which I don't even want to draw sides. I'm just simply saying if I was to buy into this and really fall victim to it, which I see a lot of people doing, a lot of people doing, then it's like when you say to the cash, you know who said this to me? And it was, it was really interesting, was Victor Davis Hansen. And he goes, here's the problem. When you have black multimillionaires telling the poor white guy he's privileged, he's going to vomit that up. My next stage to that is going to be you're going to make a racist out of him. And I, I, I think that's not just the only way we're going to make racists. I'm seeing it in a host of other ways and I'm wondering if you are too. And Jordan Peterson said, you keep telling young white boys, your ancestors, you this white, this white, that they're gonna lean into. Hopefully not, but it is unquestionably happening. And I don't wanna say the names of certain influencers. Cause I don't wanna give it more power. But we both know that there are dangerous influencers who are deeply, truly not. Like, I'm gonna label you this pejorative on you because I don't like what you said here. I mean, truly racist. And I, I think that these Narratives are breeding racism. So how is it then? How do. How does one say, because I used to feel like I did that. I get it. There's a lot of historical pain here. And then it was, you're a white savior. So now you kicked me out of that. Now I'm not involved, right? It's like, oh, you adopted a black child. You shouldn't have a black child. Like, there's a lot of them that need homes. Anybody could sign up. I. I don't know that there's enough black parents looking to adopt. And by the way, I didn't seek a black child. Just happened to be the only international country that was open to international adoption at the time. China was closed. Russia was close. Uh, India was close. Like, Haiti happened to be open because they hadn't ratified the Hague yet. So they're like, haiti's open. We can move your home study over to Haiti. I was like, great. I got a. I started working for the United nations refugee agency because of what was happening in Syria. Kids washing up on the beach. And I thought, like, well, I'm Syrian. I wonder if I'm related to any of those kids. I want to get involved. And they were like, yeah, Angelina Jolie and Ben Stiller got this one. You want to go to South Sudan and Congo? Like, I didn't sign up for that. But then the minute you try to be human nowadays and say, I want to adopt a kid. Oh, you're in Haiti. I think I could give you a better life. You don't have parents. I think I could give you a better life. It's like, white savior. Or you go to Africa. This. This woman during that trip to the Congo, I'll never forget this. There's a woman who's traveled hundreds of miles on foot, as all of these. Many of these refugees do, through literally poacher traps. The kids get malaria. It is hideous what they go through there. I am traveling with them from the end of this one journey to the refugee camp. So they're coming on buses, and I actually meet them on this bus, and we're documenting this, and we're trying to do a fundraiser thing where you could, like, walk as many miles as they walk to raise money. Um, anyway, long story short, we're crossing a bridge with holes in the bridge, like, it's old planks. This woman has. I hate to tell you, I don't even remember. It was at least two children, maybe three. She's holding a baby. She's got a toddler. There could have been another kid. I don't even remember at this point. I just know I wanted to pick up toddler. Cause she had her hands full. And there were holes in the bridge over a river. And they were like, don't, don't, don't. Don't pick up the baby. I was like, don't pick up the baby. Like, you don't want you to look like a white savior.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Michaels]

This is the United nations refugee agency. Because they're documenting everything these people go through to try to raise awareness. They're like, this could be very controversial. And I was like, I'll take the hit. And I. I know, obviously, the footage didn't go. I did actually end up getting the whole white savior thing, though, big time because of that. And my daughter, nevertheless, the woman. I said, you know, pick up the baby. And she was like, please pick up the bag. Carry the baby across the bridge. I was one mother to another mother, can I pick up the baby? But I caught hell, not necessarily for the baby, but for being there in the first place. So now I'm saying, do you, like, can you see the conundrum?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. Well, again, what people are. They're looking at that whole event through the lens of race as opposed to the lens of humanity.

[Jillian Michaels]

Tell me how to get them to stop. Because now white people aren't picking up the black woman's baby.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. I think.

[Jillian Michaels]

And she's no longer human. She's a black woman, and that's her black baby.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. And I think a. There's a lot more people that see through this nonsense than maybe we're recognizing right now.

[Jillian Michaels]

Really?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. I think there are a lot of people who are like, no, she's just helping a child. That's a human adult helping a human child. And I don't try to convince people of anything. I'm not here to, like, tell people what to think. I'm trying to be an example. And then the people who want to follow that example will.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And the people who are not ready to follow that example or need another example to follow, they can follow another example. But the disposition of trying to convince is bound to frustrate.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

God. If you're trying to. If you're trying. Because there's always going to be people who just get triggered and they're not ready. And that's okay. And it's. But it's not powerful or useful for me to try to convince them. Like, no one likes to be shaken out of their beliefs. They need to be inspired out of it. And it needs to Be from a place of, hey, I'm not trying to control what you think at all. I'm just here. I'm here to show, not tell. And if you like what I'm showing, cool. Like, welcome to this way of viewing reality. So, you know, I'm saying everything I'm saying here. I'm sure there's gonna be people who are triggered. And, like, what do you mean? Race is not real? And, like, I am black, I am white or whatever, and I'm. I'm just gonna tell them, hey, I define what real is. Real is things that are independent of the mind. Race is not independent of the mind. Race is a belief. It's a belief structure that we've opted into, and it's not a useful one. It's not in that positive one. And that's a it. And my goal is just to enjoy my life and be powerful and share the message that I have and the people who want to receive it. Cool.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm just wondering. I feel like when I say we, it's so funny, too, because it's like, when did I become the kind of collective we? But I guess because I'm not black or not brown, it's like, well, you're white. I'm like, okay, I get. Okay, I'm white. White, I guess. So this is white. Fine. But I feel like, what is it that we're not getting? Did you see that video of that kid? Or what can we do different? What do we need to do? Yeah, and. And what can we ask black people to do? Because there's a video of this kid who's trying to be the next Charlie Kirk. And I say this affectionately. I don't mean he's like. He's trying to be Charlie. Like, he's going like, cam, Cam something.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, I've seen him o.

[Jillian Michaels]

And he's going. He was just at Tennessee State or something like that. And he sets up his little booth, and he gets in his dialogues. And as far as I've seen, this kid's pretty respectful. I've watched a few of his videos now because he's been coming up in the feed, and he's never been rude or insulting or anything like that. Wears his little MAGA hat. He sets up his booth, and he tries to do the debate thing. Tries being the key word. So he sets up his little tent, and the conversation doesn't even get started. And a group, a huge group, actually, of black people are going bananas. They're so angry at the table. And this one girl goes, I am so sick of it. And all I could think about is like, I don't understand what you're so sick of. I don't. I look at you and I'm like, good looking kid in college, got your whole life ahead of you. Like, what is happening that I don't understand? Because I don't understand it. And I don't care how many people are like, you dumb race. Like you're already calling me that anyway. What? Please, what is she talking about?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, well, teach me. She believes in race, but she's feeling something.

[Jillian Michaels]

Something's happened to this kid. What is it?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, what am I not seeing again? If you, if your identity, if your primary mode of identity is race, then anything you perceive as happening to your race becomes your personal problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, I got it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So the solution, okay, so George Floyd, everything is like, oh, they look like me, they're me, the same tribe. That's. It's a form of tribalism.

[Jillian Michaels]

Understood.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So the, the solutions is to understand that's just their belief system. And.

[Jillian Michaels]

When I. Tell me, tell me that. Okay, okay, okay, I'm sorry. I appreciate that's their belief system, but I looked into the statistics of how many unarmed black men are shot by police after George Floyd, and it's less than unarmed white men. No, I know black men. I get it. I understand. I know they're a smaller percentage and therefore, proportionately speaking, it's higher, but it's not like, so it's very little higher. And I watched George Floyd. It was disgusting. Disgusting. But I really just think Derek Chauvin is hideous and he pulled pepper spray on the people that wanted to stop it, that were of all different. Like, what if he's just a psycho? What if the guy, you know, like, like the, I get that the black guy on the train that stabbed the white girl, but he was obviously banana shorts. He clearly wasn't like, I understand, and I understand why people. Why don't you make a thing out of this the way you made a thing out of that? I, I get it. But. But it actually, it was not a race killing, in my opinion, because he's insane. The man is insane. I don't see it. Statistically, I don't see it. I see interracial crime, black on black, white on white. Intraracial crime is small, but yet.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So part of what's happening is if you actually look at the chart showing black, white, race relations, and again, tell me race isn't real. But, you know, this is.

[Jillian Michaels]

I understand, but, but for the intense.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Of this conversation, but Just for the conversation. Around 2013, black, white race relations started to worsen. So people might wonder, like, why? Why 2013?

[Jillian Michaels]

I thought 2020.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, but you thought it's 2020. But no, it had been. It had been building, and then it really popped off in 2020. Why? Well, that was the rise of social media. And what does social media actually do? Social media operates off of confirmation bias and negativity bias. Confirmation bias, meaning we tend to focus on information that ignores. Confirms our existing beliefs. A negativity bias being that we tend to focus on information that is profoundly negative. So in the 1990s, early 2000s, race relations were relatively good. In fact, around 2008, they were at their. Their highest, around high 60s to 70% of black and white people agree that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Race relations, especially living in California, I was like, we're good.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So what happened?

[Jillian Michaels]

One blood, one race?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Like, people were better. So what happened? Social media exaggerates the most negative incidents, and it can feel like all of a sudden there's this epidemic of police brutality and it's targeting specifically black people. When in reality, is it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Am I missing something?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

There was not a local spike in police brutality. There was police brutality against black people. And it was a problem. And any degree. Like if even one person. Rodney King, it's. Yes, it's a problem.

[Jillian Michaels]

I remember all of that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

What I'm saying is there was not some spike around 2013. It was relatively consistent and relatively rare as well. Like police brutality, people getting killed unjustly by police is relatively rare. Numbers are low on every single time it happens. It's a tragedy and we should condemn it when it happens. And we should not conflate it with, oh, this is happening everywhere. And this is like something that no one is safe, no black person is safe. That's not what was happening here. But social media can make it appear as if that's the case. And that's a problem. When we lose a sense of proportionality, okay, we start to think that something that is a fringe incident that should be condemned is actually a majority of the majority state of affairs, when it's actually not. So part of the problem here is social media, frankly. And instead of socializing, we have social media, and they're not fungible with one another. When and before social media, the way that you would make sense of reality is you would talk to people. You would talk to your community, you would talk to your neighbor, you would talk to your family, you would talk to your friends. These days, people are more isolated than ever. The inspector general actually declared loneliness an epidemic. And they were right. It is an epidemic because rather than having real human connection, we have online connection. And it's not the same thing. It's a very fragmented form of conversation and it's very dehumanized. And what it does is it just plays off our cognitive biases to the point where we're seeing a distorted version of reality where something that is like a 6 out of 10 issue looks like a 10 out of 10 issue, something that's a 2 can look like a 5. And we don't actually understand, we can't put these things in appropriate context. And short form media, especially video and, you know, posting on X and all of this stuff is contributing to that because we're getting fragments of information rather than connected, longer conversations where we can actually make sense of reality together. So again, I'm going to keep going back to it. I think a lot of this is we're unable to distinguish between imaginary concepts that have a real impact and things that are actually real. Race isn't real. It's an imaginary concept that we keep holding on to. The way to escape the entire paradigm is to stop using the paradigm. And I also understand we're in a world that has been racialized, so we need to talk about it, but we should be talking about it with the intention of moving past, past it. So, for example, if you want to talk about like redlining or wrongful convictions against black people, yeah, we should talk about that. But I would encourage people with dark skin to say, I'm not black. I have dark skin. This person's viewing me as black and discriminating against me. That's the actual problem. Rather than saying, oh, people are viewing me through a lens that's not real and mistreating me when they should be viewing me as a human being deserving of equal dignity, they're saying, no, no, you have to treat me this way because I'm black. No, that's not what it is. You need to treat everyone the same because we're human. Humanity is real. Race is not real.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, but is that still happening? And I am an idiot. In other words, it doesn't appear like black people can't get loans anymore. It am I. If I'm wrong, someone tell me I'm wrong. Wrong. It doesn't appear like black people can't have any job they want. It doesn't appear like they can't get into Harvard anymore. They seem to be getting into Harvard just fine. It did. Is it like, is someone still doing that? These Kids seem to feel that way. Do you think that we need dei? Do we need it? I'm asking you honestly, do we still need this? People like Michelle Obama obviously think we do. People like Charlie Kirk obviously think we don't. What do you think?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. So first we should be clear about what DEI is.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Right. Because it's a very broad category of policies. And I think what, honestly, when people talk about dei, what they're really talking about is race based quotas or race based admissions practices. Something like, you know, Joy Reid, she, a few years ago, she said this, she said, oh, if it hadn't been for an affirmative action, she wouldn't have gotten into Harvard. And what she was saying was that she wouldn't have even been reached out to by Harvard and scouted and recruited.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Which is a nuance here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, Yeah, I didn't know that. It always means like if I, I'm sorry, the bias is like, oh, you didn't do the work.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah. So I'm in favor of policies that are more outreach based and say, hey, you're from a group of people who historically didn't even think that this was an option. I want to let you know you might qualify for Harvard. However, we shouldn't be saying, hey, we're gonna prioritize this person in the admissions process because of the color of their skin. We can just let them know this is an option. You can actually do this. And there's a lot of people with dark skin who believe they can't do it because of the historical narratives around where they're allowed to be. Yeah, that's how stories, stories get.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can you believe that?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yes. Stories get passed down and they create cultures and these cultures create meaning.

[Jillian Michaels]

Not only can you do it, they're gonna pick you over me. And now I'm angry about it and.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Just to be just.

[Jillian Michaels]

And now I'm becoming racist.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But, but just to be clear, just because a, a story has been passed down doesn't mean you need to accept it. And this is where there's a shared responsibility between the past and the present. You don't get to choose your past, you get to choose how you react to it in the present. That's why I keep on saying this piece about race isn't real. Because if you view your situation based on the situation of dark skinned people from 200 years ago, you're going to perpetuate their situation. You're gonna say, and you're not gonna be spending brain cycles on figuring out how can I win with the hands that I. The hand that I have right now, which should be, I think, a hundred percent of your focus, honestly, I think 100% of your focus is how do I win with the immutable traits that I have and the immutable opportunities before me. But what's happening with all of this race rhetoric? Is it. The constant narrative is because of where you're starting, you can't get to the finish line? And that's not true. It might be harder, though. It might actually be harder for you than someone else who had a different starting line. And they might have a different starting line because of their skin color, because of their parents were wealthy, because they just have higher IQ than you, because they're more beautiful than you look.

[Jillian Michaels]

Life is on a few of those boxes. She was prettier than me. They had more money.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, we all.

[Jillian Michaels]

I mean, I get a few of those, too.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

We don't all have equal cards in our hand.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But we all get to choose how we play the them. And that needs to be the point of emphasis. And I see what's happening, you know, to the point about, again, you know, people who are black and people who are white and just passing this pendulum of resentment.

[Jillian Michaels]

That is what's happening.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Part of the reason I speak about this so much is because I'm concerned. Because I'm like, yeah, I see now a lot of resentment among white people.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, yeah, they're becoming racist.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And I was like. And I.

[Jillian Michaels]

They are becoming it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, it's creating more racism.

[Jillian Michaels]

Like normally, all your parents raised you to be racist. No, they're.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It's radicalizing people. Yes, it's radicalizing people. And that's why I'm saying we need to get rid of the paradigm entirely and we need to recognize, hey, where are these old concepts of race still active today? Because they are. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but they are. And how do we identify it when it's happening? Discrimination. And transcend it by saying, I'm not going to choose to subscribe to your label of being black. I'm not going to choose to subscribe to your label of being white. I see that you're calling me this and I see that you're mistreating me. We're not going to allow you to mistreat me, But I'm not going to keep subscribing to this thing that for centuries has been dividing.

[Jillian Michaels]

Makes it a foregone conclusion.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is what you believe impacts how you behave, which dictates your reality.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Exactly. But let me just say another thing, please. What it does is it puts people in a tribal state where they excuse misbehavior in their own community.

[Jillian Michaels]

Of course.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Right. Because if your primary mode of identification is black, then you're. If anyone who's not black calls out misbehavior in your community, you're going to defend the black person because they're black. Same thing with white. If you see a white person act racist and white person mistreat a black person, well, they're white. So I got to hold it together. That's why the unifying concept needs to be we're Americans. Because otherwise the standard that we hold people to is based on an immutable characteristic. You can't change your skin color, but you can choose your belief, you can choose your allegiance, you can choose your loyalty to the United States of America.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you think that some of this victim stuff is a trick? And what I mean by that is I started to watch this race stuff grow. I, I guess I started paying attention around 2020. I didn't appreciate it was starting in 2013. And I started to notice like Serena Williams saying things like, well, you know, I play for, for underprivileged kids of color. And I was like, wait, what? Because I mean, my wife is a like a banana Serena fan. Has been for years. My wife is obviously a grown woman, but she was, she felt like, you're not my champion anymore. You know, you're. And I started to watch like, I sing for black people. I sing for sort of trans people. There were those guys singing for the tr. And I, I said to my daughter, and you know how many years I spent, whether you like this or not, trying to win over people of color as customers. Like, how can we get the lat. Latinos are a monster size market. How do we get them to want to work out with us? You know, what can we do to like, what can we do to engage the Latino community? Should we put Spanish subtitles in the DVDs? Which we did. We all we thought about was how do we get the Latino market? How do we get the black market? How do we get, like, I want to expand my market to make more money off of everybody. White people, brown people, yellow people. When you're saying, yeah, I'm just singing for these 13%. What, what are you doing? Point. And I, I said to my daughter, I was like, dude, I don't know what's happening here. I feel like this, this has to be some sort of a trick, because, you know, if you ever get into a position where you're offering a service, sell the tickets and the T shirts to everybody. Like, why are you trying to cut off revenue streams? I have to believe that maybe this is some sort of reverse racist trick of, like. Like, how do I. I. This is going to sound totally conspiratorial and insane, but I. I have to believe somebody tricked black people into cutting off their desire to get dollars from everybody else. It. It has to be some sort of, like, trick oppression. Because why in the world would you not want everybody to give you money for your work? Eating them nuts? Lay into me.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, so it's.

[Jillian Michaels]

I get it sounds insane, but it's so bananas that somebody would want that. Don't you want everyone to vote for you?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, here's the thing again. If your primary mode of allegiance is racial, then you're gonna focus on racial.

[Jillian Michaels]

You don't think someone, like, brainwashed people to say that stuff? I mean, how in the world else could you get there?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Well, it's kind of like. Let me. Let me say it this way. When you think of ethnicity, right? So ethnicity is more tied to your place of origin. There's people who are from Mexico and they feel an affinity for Mexico.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

There's people from Germany who feel an affinity for Germany. There's people who are dark skinned and have an affinity for people with dark skin. I think that's all. Okay. I don't. I don't mind people having preferences and saying. I just feel more connected to this. Cause the issue is when we become so attached to that that it overrides principles. So if Serena wants to say, hey, I'm here to make money to serve people of color, that's okay with me.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But it should be about as important.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't get it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Ice cream flavors.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Okay. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be this. This entire worldview that makes race the most important thing and principles less important.

[Jillian Michaels]

So again, I don't even think it's racist. I just think it's the most sort of totally bizarre. Like, I think she. You. You hurt yourself. That's what I mean. Michael Jordan was the people's champ.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Hmm.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't know. I like you. You go to the concert, whoever the color of the person is, and everybody sings along. Doesn't matter if you're listening to a white artist or a black artist. And it's like, when do we get to. Like, my music is made for. I Just can't. I'm like, what are we doing, dude? Like, this isn't even good business. You want to fill that stadium? Does it matter who's in the seat? Like, what human is sitting in that seat? And I guess maybe it's because she felt like nobody inspired me to play tennis when I was young. So I wanted a black role model, and now I have one. This is the part where I think, like, as, as a person that doesn't have dark skin, I'll stop using the labels. You just don't understand. And, and I, and. And I want to understand. I feel like if you're looking for empathy, I don't even know where to be empathetic.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

So that's the problem.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Can I. Can I help you understand this then?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

So.

[Jillian Michaels]

So again, where does my empathy go?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, and I, I don't even like the term empathy here.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But I just want to understand. I want to explain descriptively what's going on. So again, race isn't real. And yet when race as a concept is used to persecute a particular group of people, that group of people is going to come together around this concept of race, because it's going to be the thing that keeps them strong amidst oppression. Okay, so what happens is that originally happens. Right. Again during slavery, and then it continue with Jim Crow, these other forms of oppression. And then that story gets passed down from generation to generation because the parents are thinking, well, this concept is keeping us safe and together. I need to pass this down to my kids because it kept us safe and together.

[Jillian Michaels]

A multi generational, Multi generational thing.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

But, but part of the problem is that there's a point where the concept outlives its usefulness. And now you're more. You're focused on this thing that was first of all imposed upon people who look like you. You, then internalized by people who look like you, then passed down by people who look like you, but is not needed by people who look like you. Right now, you're not in a situation where you need to be attached to this concept of race for you to succeed and survive. Because it's pretty great in America to have dark skin, just like it's pretty great in America to have light skin. And what I want people to do is focus on what is actually happening in your individual life. Life, not the lives of other people who look like you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Got it?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That's all I'm saying.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And I think there are a lot of people, frankly, and I see it like, you know, the things I'M speaking about. They're controversial. And I see a lot of people who look like me resonating with it, who are afraid to say what I'm saying, but they messaged me privately. It's like, yeah, I see what you're talking about. And it's like, yeah, I haven't. I don't feel like I'm discriminated against in America, and it doesn't mean that someone else isn't being discriminated against. But can we think as individuals, not as groups?

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That's what we need to do.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Stop thinking in terms of a mental concept. This boundless mental concept that is. Has so much variance. Like, so much of this depends on where you live, socioeconomic status, these things that can be much more precisely defined than race. So, again, is there racism in America? Of course there's racism in America. Is every person with dark skin experiencing racism all the time, and they can't just come escape it? No, no, that's not happening. And then, you know, sometimes people critique me because they're saying, oh, well, you're not a foundational black American.

[Jillian Michaels]

What does that mean?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Because my parents came from Ghana, right? So I was born here. I was born here. I was born in the Bronx. And, like, you know, we didn't have a lot of money coming up, but my parents figured it out, and, like, I'm doing well, so they. They try to discount me by saying, well, you're not a foundational black American. Yeah, that's true. And because I'm black, if his current discrimination, I should be experiencing it. If it's ubiquitous, I'm not experiencing it to the same extent that you are. What is. So. So. So maybe that's the thing.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't want to pass. I want to know to the extent that you do experience it.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

I've been called the N word sometimes.

[Jillian Michaels]

Really?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Yeah, but. And it's like, you know, I remember, like, once in fourth grade, so some kid, he was just being an idiot. He just called me the N word. And I was like, okay, well, he's dumb. It's like, I'm not gonna internalize this thing. He's like, he's dumb.

[Jillian Michaels]

It was great. You thought that.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

And then, honestly, a lot of the time, I feel like having dark skin, being black has been a tremendous advantage. And I feel like, for me, the good has outweighed the bad. And I feel like I play my cards correctly so that, you know, when I go into a room, I'm not leading with being black. And I know I also Stand out because I'm black and often I'm the only black person in the room.

[Jillian Michaels]

You stand out cause you're good looking before you talk. No offense, but you're a good looking guy.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Thank you.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've noticed a lot of women swoon when you're around. I mean, you're tall and good look. Literally. I don't know if you heard me when we didn't know if you were here. A tall, good looking guy.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Thank you.

[Jillian Michaels]

You were jumping on the trampoline side of the studio. I love you. I just think, I think you're so special. I really appreciate the time you give me and all the content you put out there. You're just an exceptional person. Where can everyone get more from? You tell them about your substack, which is fantastic.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Thank you.

[Jillian Michaels]

I just. You help me so much to think things through and stay grounded and be the best version of myself. So how can you help people do that?

[Kaizen Asiadu]

Thank you. So first of all, just thanks for sharing your platform. You know, it's. It's nice to just get an opportunity to talk about the real stuff. Like you said some stuff that was probably scary for you to say. And I'm sure there are things that we said imperfectly or whatever, but that's how conversations are, right? They're imperfect, they're clumsy. We make mistakes, we don't say things perfectly, but we're not looking to cancel and condemn each other constantly, which is unfortunately where we gotten as a culture. And I want to make something clear. I'm not some enlightened guru. Guru. I'm not some perfect dude. I'm certainly biased. I have my own proclivities. I have my business interests. I have my personal incentives. I have my status games. I have my political viewpoints. I have my algorithmic echo chambers. Just like everyone else. I don't want people to be perfect. I just want us to be human about stuff rather than making everything this life or death struggle, good and evil. You're evil, I'm good. It's, it's, it's killing us. It's ruining the one life that we all have together. So that's just what I want to stand for. And yeah, if you want to be a part of it, I don't know where the camera is, but if you want to be. If you want to be a part of it. Yeah. So clear. Thinker is my brand. It's a course and a community that's dedicated to giving people a sane space for thinking clearly about the difficult issues of our time. Because we talked a little bit about the social media effect. A lot of this is social media distortion. And when you understand how cognitive biases work and logical fallacies, it's a lot easier to see through when you're being manipulated. And also, frankly, have more compassion for other people who are not in their right mind because they're being manipulated too. We all are. So you can go to clearthinkeracademy.com to check that out, or you can just go to that's Kaizen on any profile and you can sign up for my various substack short form videos, all of that stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're wonderful. We need to keep these conversations going.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

We do, we do. And look, I, I commend you for just being honest about what's going on inside of you. Because, look, the, the most dangerous thing is not to acknowledge those things because then they get out of hand. And that's what happens. People have become so self righteous.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

That they believe. Oh well, there's nothing to. I have to look at it myself. It's all in the other people. So I need to stamp them out. And I don't have anything that I need to address that's dangerous. And that's, that's what I'm concerned about. And it's not fence sitting. It's not same siding. It's principles. We just need principles. And we, we can recognize that identifying principles doesn't need to turn into a personal attack either.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right.

[Kaizen Asiadu]

It can just be like, hey, look, you're a human being just like me, and what you just did was wrong. Cool. I do wrong things too, by the way. I'm sinning too. Right. Sin is to miss. It comes from archery. That's what sin means. It's just a miss. It's just we all miss. We spent a whole life missing and trying to become more accurate. It's okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

I didn't know that. Yeah, I love that. Thanks. K means the world. Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please, like comment, subscribe and share and make sure to let me know what guests you want to see on in the future.