The Ultimate Clash: Jillian Michaels vs. Sam Seder | No Holds Barred

Summary

Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels

Episode Summary: The Ultimate Clash: Jillian Michaels vs. Sam Seder | No Holds Barred

Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Jillian Michaels
Guest: Sam Seder (Host of The Majority Report)

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Episode Overview

This fiery, deeply contentious episode of "Keeping It Real" brings together two powerhouse personalities—Jillian Michaels and Sam Seder—for a no-holds-barred, unflinchingly honest debate. Taking up audience requests for more diverse, even oppositional viewpoints, Jillian invites Sam, a progressive media personality, to address mutual criticisms and polarizing issues ranging from US foreign policy, international aid reform, pandemic origins, and health policy, to trans rights, food insecurity, and pharmaceutical regulation. What unfolds is less about reaching consensus and more a case study in cross-ideological challenge—prickly, data-laden, often personal, and emblematic of the stakes in contemporary discourse.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Crossing the Divide

• Jillian expresses her intent to bring in people with fundamentally differing views to "keep it real." Sam responds, motivated to revisit their heated debate on Piers Morgan.
  • Jillian: "Not a lot of people will show up for [civil debate], even when I'm totally neutral on the position." (00:45)
  • Sam: "I was actually interested in revisiting our exchange on Piers Morgan from a year ago." (02:07)

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2. Addressing Past Grievances and Online Attacks

• The opening banter is charged, rehashing prior online insults, mockery, and ad hominem attacks. Both directly read out nasty emails from their followers to illustrate the toxicity that comes with platforming controversy.
  • Email read by Jillian: "Die slow, bitch. So it does seem that the apple does not fall from the tree." (05:11)
  • Sam (sarcastic): "Is that my dad?" (05:12)

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3. Accusations of Fact-Checking and Media Narratives

• Jillian sharply criticizes Sam for what she calls a pattern of "not fact-checking," "mischaracterizing things," or "lying by omission" (07:54), marking the tone for a recurring challenge on truth claims across the episode.
• Jillian's agenda: Debunk Sam's claims on topics such as the Israel/Palestine debate, U.S. foreign aid policy, and corruption.

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4. Iran, Mamdani, and Fears of "Radicalism"

• Jillian connects U.S. diaspora sentiment and fears of left-Islamist collusion, referencing Mamdani as channeling Ayatollah Khomeini’s rhetoric (09:00–11:32).
• Sam repeatedly asks for concrete examples of "communist" or "Islamist" policies from Mamdani.
  • Sam: "What communist policies has Mamdani proposed?" (11:33)
  • Jillian: "This is what they are citing…These are the parallels." (11:26)

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5. Arguments Over USAID & International Aid Cuts

• A central, lengthy clash concerns U.S. cuts to international health aid under the Trump administration, moving USAID operations to the USDA and/or State Department, with debates over intent, efficacy, and impact, especially in Uganda and broader Africa.

Major Themes:

• Corruption/Bloat vs. Humanitarian Impact:
  • Jillian critiques duplicative, corrupt, or inefficient structures inside USAID, citing instances of "ghost employees," failed programs in Afghanistan/Haiti, and double-billing by groups like EcoHealth.
    • Jillian: "Read a book. It’s called Save Three Lives and it’s by the Rodale Family…our big ag companies went into the developed world to addict their soil to our GMO crops. It’s a money-laundering game." (32:46)
  • Sam insists that despite inefficiency, the aid agencies save lives and their abrupt restructuring was catastrophic:
    • Sam: "I'm looking at the cuts…from malaria, 25% cut. From basic education, 35% cut…from pandemic influenza and other emerging threats, 33% cut." (41:09)
• Modeling vs. Concrete Data:
  • Jillian challenges the high death toll figures, criticizing overreliance on models (Lancet, PBS, etc.), claiming they're not based on confirmed mortality statistics.
    • Jillian: "It's a model. It's not…A death registry, confirmed bodies, forensic evidence..." (27:23)
  • Sam defends the necessity of modeling in international health crises:
    • Sam: "Modeling happens all the time." (27:25)

Notable Quotes:

• Jillian: "A dollar cut of duplication, of bloat, of bureaucracy, of corruption does not equate to aid." (43:39)
• Sam: "So first they're models by The Lancet. I said this is the Lancet study." (29:03)

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6. U.S. Foreign Policy: Ukraine, Iran, and the “Lesser Evil”

• Ukraine/NATO Expansion:

  • Jillian and Sam spar over the trigger points for Russia's invasion, NATO expansion, missed “off-ramps,” and assignment of blame (80:14–86:15).
    • Jillian: "We had more leverage in 22. We don't seem to have with..." (83:03)
    • Sam: "Russia's Ukraine was never admitted into NATO." (81:49)

• Iran & JCPOA:

  • Blame is exchanged for the collapse of the Iran nuclear deal. Sam argues Trump’s withdrawal triggered uranium enrichment; Jillian disputes the timeline and motives.
    • Sam: "They didn't start to [enrich to 60% uranium] until Trump unilaterally got out of the JPOA." (90:44)
    • Jillian: "That is not true." (90:50)
    • Sam: "So you're suggesting that we created Covid?" (65:07)
    • Jillian: "I do believe so, yes. I think that we funded…EcoHealth Alliance funded it." (65:10)

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7. Food Policy, SNAP Benefits, and Food Deserts

• SNAP Enforcement & Food Pyramid Reform:

  • Jillian argues Trump administration reforms force healthier food into food deserts by tying SNAP to new guidelines.
    • Jillian: "If they take SNAP benefits, they are forced to offer what the guidelines recommend." (70:18)
  • Sam queries enforcement and market feasibility.
    • Sam: "You would have to argue there's enough of a margin for those people to acquire the foods that you're talking about without any other subsidies." (70:55)

• FDA Regulation & Closed Loopholes:

  • Jillian claims her preferred policies have forced the FDA to begin banning certain unhealthy additives, closing the GRAS loophole, and overhauling pharmacy benefit managers.
    • Jillian: "Kennedy is closing that [GRAS] loophole. That to me is a good thing. I'll take it. I haven't gotten anything like it out of any administration I've ever worked with." (73:28)
  • Sam responds that these initiatives began under prior administrations.
    • Sam: "A lot of the work on the PBMs was started under the Biden administration." (74:28)

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8. Individual Agency, Policy, and “Choosing the Lesser Evil”

• Jillian and Sam debate the broader theme of “lesser evilism” in electoral politics:
  • Sam: "Do you consider Trump the lesser evil?" (67:56)
  • Jillian: "I do. I actually do." (67:58)
  • Jillian rationalizes her position through a focus on health reform, food policy, and pharma oversight rather than foreign involvements or social policy.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On Personal Attacks:
  • Sam (reading from a troll email): "To that woman from The Biggest Loser, go F yourself…" (02:30)
• On the Red Herring Debate:
  • Jillian: "The 'defeating starving children' thing is such a freaking red herring." (32:46)
  • Sam: "You said the kids were a red herring because they were going to get the food anyway." (62:42)
• On Modeling Deaths:
  • Jillian: "So first of all, that's a model. Here's what it is not: A death registry, confirmed bodies, forensic evidence..." (27:23)
• On Iran:
  • Jillian: "There are so many differences that it’s staggering. We had boots on the ground in Iraq, and there were no weapons of mass destruction... Here, we don’t have boots on, and there’s 60% enriched uranium." (101:26)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:01–02:30: Introduction, premise, on adversarial guests.
• 05:01–06:00: Reading inflammatory fan mail, discussing toxic audience culture.
• 07:54–08:30: Jillian accuses Sam of not fact-checking and mischaracterizing her views.
• 09:00–14:35: Iran, Mamdani, and the Ayatollah comparison.
• 15:02–17:14: Israel/Palestine bias, defending professional integrity.
• 18:08–29:54: Central argument over USAID, humanitarian aid cuts, and statistics.
• 32:46–36:58: Food aid as "red herring," bloat, the role of Big Ag, ecohealth, and disaster aid.
• 41:00–43:39: Aid cuts by program/sector, what was “actually” cut.
• 53:02–56:17: Empirical evidence, fraud, and the difficulty in tracking real-world outcomes.
• 62:07–67:19: Policy differences between Trump, Biden; pharmacy reforms; food guidance; SNAP enforcement.
• 80:14–86:15: Ukraine, NATO expansion, missed peace "off-ramps," evaluating U.S. war policies.
• 87:00–97:11: Iran, JCPOA, historical coups, and U.S. regime change history.
• 101:26–102:19: Analogies between Iraq, Iran, and threat perceptions.
• 102:41–103:14: Closing remarks, nuclear enrichment timetables.

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Flow and Tone

• Combative, Personal, Relentless: This episode crackles with direct confrontation and challenges, with few attempts at olive branches. Cross-talk is frequent, often devolving into disputes over data sourcing, studies, and interpretations.
• Data-Heavy, Policy-Focused: Both guests cite books, government memos, legislation, and studies (often disagreeing on their validity or interpretation).
• Occasional Humor and Sarcasm: Despite the intensity, there are lighter moments—mocking audience hate mail, joking about their media stature, and poking fun at each other's expertise.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode offers a front-row seat to the culture war’s frontlines, balancing critiques of U.S. aid bureaucracy, dueling interpretations of policy outcomes, and unresolved historical grievances. It’s essential listening for anyone wanting to grasp the arguments around aid reform, the intersection of foreign/domestic policy, and what happens when two “no-spin” personalities meet without guardrails.

Decision-makers, policy wonks, students of debate, and political junkies will find this especially illuminating—if not always easy or comfortable listening.

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Note:
Ad segments, promotional spots, podcast outro, and non-content banter have been excluded as per instructions.

Transcript

[Jillian Michaels]

You want a more balanced perspective. I want to give you a more balanced perspective. They don't show up. They don't show up. So for the love of God, anybody who is brave enough, throw your hat

[Sam Cedar]

in the ring to that woman from the Biggest Loser. Go F yourself. Go take your maha and shove it up your ass.

[Jillian Michaels]

There are so many differences that it's staggering. We had boots on the ground in Iraq, and there were no weapons of mass destruction here. We don't have boots on on the. And there's 60% enriched uranium, and they're funding terra proxies Night Meet Day. All right, guys, you've been asking me to provide more diverse perspectives on the show, and I've also wanted to provide you with that. So I put out a public call for guests with different viewpoints. Well, the guy who answered that call is Sam Cedar, host of the Majority Report. Now, I can't exactly say that we found a ton of common ground in this conversation, but we definitely brought the heat. Get ready, because there are a ton of. Ton of fireworks in this one. Here we go. Keeping it Real with Jillian Michaels. Sam Cedar, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming. First of all, thanks for having me. Yeah. So this all came about because I asked for people with oppositional views or posing views to come on and talk with me and talk with the audience. My audience actually has requested consistently to get a more diverse perspective. And I have said that it's not so easy because not a lot of people will show up for it, even when I'm totally neutral on the position. So in the video, I talked about wanting somebody to come on from Pro Life, Pro Choice. I see both sides of it wanting a doctor who's anti vaxx and Pro Vax. A host of different individuals have asked them to come on and been unsuccessful, largely. I also did ask for being for when people. When they sling pejoratives and ad hominem attacks, to say it to my face. And you were kind enough to step up for that. You're. You are the first. So SOT number three guys. I wanted to litigate some of this stuff first.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, well, I should say. I should just say that that was not what I was responding to was your. Your video where you said that nobody would show up. I was actually interested in revisiting our exchange on Piers Morgan from a year ago.

[Jillian Michaels]

Promise you we will. That's why I'd like.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'd like some of your time. Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

SOT three to that woman from the Biggest Loser. Go F yourself. Go take your maha and shove it up your ass. Go F yourself. She now has a YouTube influencer channel. Even bigger loser. Everybody knows I like to keep it real. Perfect show for me to go on.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is this a meeting of the Gay Straight Alliance? They're both gay.

[Sam Cedar]

That's Nick. Oil salesman talking about politics. Totally. I'm the one book I read. I'm sure she read that book two weeks ago.

[Jillian Michaels]

Pictures.

[Sam Cedar]

Here's someone who quit her show because of criticism of Israel was happening.

[Jillian Michaels]

Talk to me about Islam. Tell me where we're getting wrong.

[Sam Cedar]

Please come on my show and justify why Muslims aren't bad. Three hours ago. Nothing. Have we heard back anything? Nothing yet. Oh, my God. She's a fool.

[Jillian Michaels]

Her role in media is to defend Israel. I think she's a terf. Right. So she doesn't like trans people and thinks it takes away from feminism and then is also a maha person.

[Sam Cedar]

They want to get rid of free lunches in schools both here and in

[Jillian Michaels]

Africa, which I know. I care about both. She cares about neither, but is pretending to care about the kids in America. Okay, well, so first let me address the fact that I'm sorry I did not get back to you within great producers. I, I. Well, you gave us a lot to work with, Sam. Having said that, I. Again, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you within three hours. A man of your stature. I apologize, but your followers spammed the email I put out. So number two,

[Sam Cedar]

not sure how to reach you, but if you're so inclined, have someone from your office email our podcast line and then she puts her email there. If you guys, you know, want to send her an email now, you know what her address is, so go wild with that.

[Jillian Michaels]

And they did. Graphic number one.

[Sam Cedar]

You, you know, hold on for one second. Yeah, you know, the, those guys are on a completely different podcast.

[Jillian Michaels]

I totally get it, but it seems like they, they're your followers, though. They. They like you quite a bit. Along with like, I didn't even know Hassan calls you uncle.

[Sam Cedar]

They do a show about.

[Jillian Michaels]

But I think, I guess so. So then we get. Okay, so graphic number one. So we got, we did in fact get those emails and it made it very difficult to find yours. Lol. I think they left off the last O. You're such a fake dipshit excuse of a human being. I hope cedar guts your duck ass. And how are you too poor to host this email address on your own website when you've been nothing but a grifter your entire professional career? Allison off air. Thanks. I don't really know what that part means.

[Sam Cedar]

Is that my dad.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's one of your fans. Then there's I heard the progressive host of the Majority Report, Sam Cedar. Sam, keeping it real. Cedar would be happy to debunk all of your nonsense. Die slow, bitch. So it does seem that the apple does not fall from the trees.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I'm not sure if. Oh, you're joking.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you for being here. I think I would honestly say to you off the top, given all.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you gay?

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, I mean, I don't know. How do you feel about it? I've watched you make fun of gay people now, including Benny Johnson and Steven Crowder, which is weird because you.

[Sam Cedar]

Benny Johnson is not gay. Benny Johnson was. Was. Was slamming trans people. Is he not gay?

[Jillian Michaels]

He's not gay.

[Sam Cedar]

He's not.

[Jillian Michaels]

He's not. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Seriously?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, it's a little confusing. No, but you. But you've insulted him utilizing that context, which is so weird. Like, why?

[Sam Cedar]

What do you mean?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, you mean like I said, he's clotted.

[Jillian Michaels]

Oh, he's gay. But like, I don't think I'll clip it.

[Sam Cedar]

He's gay.

[Jillian Michaels]

You did. I'll clip it. And you did it to Crowder as well.

[Sam Cedar]

But I do, I do. I do think. Well, I mean, I think it's pretty well documented that Benny Johnson is. I mean, certainly not. I'm not the only person to. To bring that up at all. A lot of right wingers have been more explicit about it than I have. Crowder. Yes, I do think that Crowder is suppressing some things.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why?

[Sam Cedar]

Ex wife sort of like hinted around it. But I'm just asking because somebody wrote that to you in the thing and I wasn't aware that you were gay. If you are.

[Jillian Michaels]

I am. You are gay. You talked about it in the thing. You've talked about it numerous times, actually, with that.

[Sam Cedar]

You're gay.

[Jillian Michaels]

You've talked about it numerous times on your show, Sam. I mean, honestly, there are many things that you.

[Sam Cedar]

Gay. I was surprised there was that many clips that we talked about you over the past year, but I think many just say the first one. Yeah, the first one where I was telling you to f off.

[Jillian Michaels]

We're going to get. There was.

[Sam Cedar]

Was a response. Well, I mean, you put.

[Jillian Michaels]

We're going to get. I promise you we are going to get there.

[Sam Cedar]

I should just say within some proximity of that video. That specifically was when the first report of the tens of thousands. Now hundreds of thousands of children, but also adults who have died As a result.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's not true. Sam, you want to talk about that study? We can start there. You're wrong.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, I'm happy to start there.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right.

[Sam Cedar]

You should play the clip of when you were on.

[Jillian Michaels]

I promise you we are going to. I promise you. I want to litigate some of the other stuff you said first though, if it's okay.

[Sam Cedar]

Is this really going to be just about like your feelings are hurt?

[Jillian Michaels]

No, it's proving a pattern that you either, you either don't fact check your information, you mischaracterize things, you lie by omission. And I can give you so many different examples, it's staggering. Sat 9 Everybody not. You've seen Iranian people in the streets here telling everybody, listen to what we are saying to you. Mamdani sounds like the Ayatollah.

[Sam Cedar]

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. There are Iranian people in the US

[Jillian Michaels]

Call me an idiot

[Sam Cedar]

saying that Mamdani sounds like the Ayatollah, I'm assuming in 1979. Like they're saying like leading up to the revolution, I guess. But no, the. The Ayatollah was in exile in Paris, I believe when the revolution hit. The people that have a lot of credibility right now is the conservative Iranian diaspora.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's see what they have to say.

[Jillian Michaels]

And I would like for some specifics about what Mamdani has said that makes like the Ayatollah. A lot of people picked their Mamdani 47 years ago in Iran, which was Khomeini at that time. If you watch the, if you just listen to what Mamdani said in New York, it's verbatim what Khomeini said 47 years ago in the Islamist lefty committee at that time. And people got fooled because he was in the end of 70s and they just wanted to be hippies and free. And that's how it looked like at that time for Iran. So they picked a Khomeini that was supposed to just come and help people have free everything, give the money. How could you say no to. How could you say no to free? Everything is free and all of that. And you watch, watch what he he says. You listen to Mamdani, find Iranian people on social media telling us over and over and over again that the way Mamdani speaks in New York City is exactly the way the Ayatollah was speaking in Iran, word for word, verbatim. So this is the promises Khomeini made back in 1979. Pre 1979. Look at this. He has promised free water, free electricity and free buses. Now, does that sound familiar? That's why you see the Persians, especially the Persian Jews being so loud in America right now. Because we lived this. It wasn't necessarily our parents or our grandparents or great grandparents with the Holocaust. This was us. Like, I lived that, my parents lived that. We escaped that. What is the red? Who's red and who's green? So basically it's the Islamists joining hands with communists. There are numerous clips like this, Sam. And it's okay if you don't agree. It's okay if you want to.

[Sam Cedar]

What's happening with that first woman on the street?

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't know. An Iranian protester in the street. One of many. I can give you many different sites if you like. I can pull up different posts that have names.

[Sam Cedar]

What is the. What is the argument that. Here's the argument in offering free buses.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's not.

[Sam Cedar]

The argument is like the Atolla.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're more than welcome, by the way, to have that argument with me.

[Sam Cedar]

But the fact is let's not talk about have. Let's have that argument. Well, explain to me.

[Jillian Michaels]

Here's their argument.

[Sam Cedar]

What communist. What communist things that Mamdani has. Has. Has.

[Jillian Michaels]

Graphic number three. Guys, these are the parallels.

[Sam Cedar]

No, wait, wait, wait. Let's just.

[Jillian Michaels]

Just you. But you're asking the parallels. I'm telling you what they're citing.

[Sam Cedar]

What communist policies has Mamdani proposed?

[Jillian Michaels]

This is what they are citing, Sam. What they are saying is that the parallels.

[Sam Cedar]

What Islamist policies?

[Jillian Michaels]

Answer, Sam, He's a. He's a Muslim, correct? Is he a Muslim? He is a Muslim, correct. And this is you saying. I'd like to know what they're comparing. I'm telling you guys.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm asking you right now, what communists. Let's argue the validity of these people.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm having you come on to talk about that. But what's not okay is you calling me an idiot, saying it didn't happen.

[Sam Cedar]

I do.

[Jillian Michaels]

It did happen. And all you have to do is Google it.

[Sam Cedar]

Still reserved.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

You can find a random person on the.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, I showed you numerous clips, guys. Graphic 2. Graphic 4. Graphic 3. Here, give me any one of these.

[Sam Cedar]

Here is so. But you're avoiding the actual.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm not avoiding the question, Sam. If we were going.

[Sam Cedar]

There is no doubt the Iranian diaspora. They also told us that the Iranian government would fall. They also encouraged a war attacking Iran. Not all of the diaspora, but certainly large elements of it. So their credibility. Let's talk about the actual. That you're out there saying that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Mom, don't to. Okay, I'll give you an example of something that concerns me.

[Sam Cedar]

Mom, Dani is a communist.

[Jillian Michaels]

Here's something that concerns me.

[Sam Cedar]

Give me one example.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'll give you an example. Here's a perfect example. Okay? There's a video, and I can drop it in. I can send it to you. Of Mamdani at a mosque, seeming perfectly lovely, ringing in the new year. The mosque for the first time. He gets off stage and they swiftly call for death to the infidels. That freaks me out, Sam, we pray daily for your success in this journey. Insha'.

[Sam Cedar]

Allah.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you. Like, I'm sorry, who does the. The exact imam. He gets off stage and the guy immediately says a prayer that calls for death to the infidels by the sword. That freaks me out, Sam. It freaks me out.

[Sam Cedar]

And so that's your evidence that Mamdani isn't as well?

[Jillian Michaels]

No. Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

This is like Hark to when Barack Obama was a member of the Weather Underground.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Bill Ayers, or because he's a Muslim, his reverend.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, he's sworn on the Quran. He's a self proclaimed Muslim, which is totally fine, but he has some radical.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you aware of what's in the Old Testament in the Torah, Sam?

[Jillian Michaels]

I've actually had scholars on to compare both texts. And if we talk about a religious war and a jihad, it's confined in the Old Testament to the Canaanites, and that's because they were sacrificing babies. So it's not an ongoing holy war or jihad. And I'm not saying that that's what Mamdani is recommending.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, you're not.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, you blatantly got caught in a lie just now. And there are so many others that I got caught. Well, you claimed I was an idiot and it wasn't happening, but it is happening.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, I think we haven't resolved that.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, well, how about this one? How about this one? That. There's so many of these, but buckle up. So SOT number five is Anna Kasparian. We're going to pull that up in a second. And Amy Danger, when you stormed off

[Sam Cedar]

your show with her.

[Jillian Michaels]

Actually, I am, because here's your claim, right? Your claim is that I get paid to defend Israel. I'm more than happy to give you the exact same offer that PBD gave Tucker. We can hire independent accountants. They can go through our finances. It's never happened. I have no problem doing that. If you want to take me up on it at any point I don't

[Sam Cedar]

know if we literally meant that you actually get paid from the Israeli government, but I think clearly, like, you have an audience where you need to suggest how many.

[Jillian Michaels]

How many people have I had on

[Sam Cedar]

from the other radical Islamist. And you're really.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you want to.

[Sam Cedar]

Do you want to see the Israeli line dramatically? And that's your business.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've had Dave Smith on twice. James. James Lee and I have spoken twice.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know who that is, but that's great.

[Jillian Michaels]

He's very pro Palestine. We had a full episode with Crystal Ball coming out on her take. I'm the one who got Anna Kasparian that job on her take. And the issue was not about Israel versus Palestine. And in fact, I've had Cenk Uygur on to talk to me about it as well. And I can even drop a clip in here where we're on peers. And I'm saying I've learned a lot from you on this subject matter. Having said that, the debate on her take was not me being uncomfortable debating because there was no debate because they both agreed with me laterally across the board. Now we've got multiple accusations that all pile up to the same exact. I think it's the furries. It's the furries. I think it's. I think it's the furries. A lot of people I don't know and I don't. Look, there's. Who are saying no evidence to suggest none. But you're saying. Would you stop for a second? Ridiculous. Like this whole thing is ridiculous. There are two things being conflated right now. There are conspiracy theorists who think Israel killed Charlie Kirk. They have yet to provide a shred of evidence proving that. Done. And we're not talking about that. I am talking about something entirely. Talking about. No, we're not on. Let me finish my fucking thought, okay? The real issue here is that before most people even knew that Charlie Kirk was dead. Honestly,

[Sam Cedar]

I'm willing to talk to you about issues. This is going to be about you because we have been mean to you. I'm very, very sorry and I apologize and I'll go. But if we're going to talk about issues, let's talk about it. I don't care. I'm willing to stipulate.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, let's do another lie. That's right here. Let's do this.

[Sam Cedar]

Mean to you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's do this.

[Sam Cedar]

All of that.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, let's do one in the real House now.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's talk about issues, shall we?

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's can we do the trans kids? Because you have a crazy lie about that one.

[Sam Cedar]

Let's start with what you suggested to my producer.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

I want to talk about the turf. Let's talk about the only thing that I actually care about.

[Jillian Michaels]

I went over all this with your

[Sam Cedar]

producer whining and crying about how to. And how we called you a name.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

This and that. You're sorry about that. I accept.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna bust you in so many lies.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, there you go.

[Jillian Michaels]

Here we go. Let's talk. Let's do SO number seven. Let's do SOT number seven.

[Sam Cedar]

I'd also say that organic type of thing that she represents, it'd be catastrophic. There's an article in Foreign Policy Magazine, 2022 in Sri Lanka. Organic farming went catastrophically wrong. Nationwide experiment is abandoned after producing only misery. Basically tried to go pesticide free and it caused food shortages. So these people have no real solutions other than they have a perverse incentive in that when people are sicker, they and aren't covered by public health, they turn to quacks like them.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yep. Yep. Okay. So that is. That's exactly what we're talking about. That was in relation to usa. Did you read the article?

[Sam Cedar]

Did I read the article?

[Jillian Michaels]

You said yup. So did you read it? Because it doesn't support any.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't even know what you're talking about. The clip, honestly. I don't know what you're talking.

[Jillian Michaels]

You said yup. Are you not okay?

[Sam Cedar]

I said yup. Just.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, it. In the clip, when you read it. This. This I just ties back to today.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know when that clip was from.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, don't you think you should be responsible for the things.

[Sam Cedar]

Yup.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

What is the. I don't even know.

[Jillian Michaels]

So this ties back to the usa.

[Sam Cedar]

This.

[Jillian Michaels]

This ties back.

[Sam Cedar]

It's for show. I'm here to have an adult conversation. You're not.

[Jillian Michaels]

You're just, I think free fall because I'm gonna bust you in lived. You are after lie after lie.

[Sam Cedar]

That's great.

[Jillian Michaels]

So in the article. What?

[Sam Cedar]

There is no. Let's. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

[Jillian Michaels]

Beginning. That's.

[Sam Cedar]

We were on Piers Morgan. You said to me that when I brought up that there were going to be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, millions of people over the course of the next decade who are going to die because of cuts in usaid. Your words to me were quote. And I'm sure you have it sought whatever number it is.

[Jillian Michaels]

I do.

[Sam Cedar]

Your words That's a red herring. And then you said to me read a book.

[Jillian Michaels]

And if you had, I think you know what I was talking about.

[Sam Cedar]

Remember what book it was?

[Jillian Michaels]

Save Three Lives by Rodale.

[Sam Cedar]

Yes, I did read that book.

[Jillian Michaels]

Did you? Then you.

[Sam Cedar]

I bought that book.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

I have it right here. It was an okay book.

[Jillian Michaels]

But it should. There was a lot of stuff in there which I agree on going. You know, when that book was. You would. Sam, you know, not only do I know when it's written, it actually started in the 50s.

[Sam Cedar]

91.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, can I explain.

[Sam Cedar]

And that was 35 years ago. And so I read the book. It mentions USAID once on page 65 where Rodell actually speaks sort of positively of the USAID representative at a conference who is discussing. Discussing what is the food aid run through getting what does the supplies needed to grow food in Africa was actually more expensive than the actual food and of itself. Yes. And so you got it exactly in this book. And everything that you complained about saying that USAID was just a front for corporations to go in and destroy the food supply in these countries by forcing. And much of what has been written here. I've interviewed countless peoples on this topic later than 1991 where this dynamic continued. It got worse. All those operations that you supposedly had a problem with with USAID have been moved over to the usda. I'm well aware all that stuff is still happening.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes, I know. That's my point.

[Sam Cedar]

Not getting. People are not getting. They're not getting like TB fighting drugs.

[Jillian Michaels]

They are. Sam, that waiver was on the 28th of January. There was a blanket and then two,

[Sam Cedar]

three and then two, four right here in my hand. That talks about. The fact is even after the waiver was issued, it took a few weeks screwed up the supply side. The, the. The logistics stuff that they still having problems. PBS just wrote a piece on this actually maybe it was in. In March about how they are actually seeing deaths extensive deaths in. As a. As a function of.

[Jillian Michaels]

Send it to me because I, I did a ton of homework on April

[Sam Cedar]

22 sees spike in disease related deaths after elimination of USAID from pbs.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's been moved over to the State Department. It isn't eliminated. It changed.

[Sam Cedar]

It specifically talks about the. The abrupt grinding to a halt by USAID for Both HIV and HIV associated. Close to 15% of the clients dying of malaria and TB. This is because of USAID.

[Jillian Michaels]

Anything. Okay, first of all, all of that was done on 128. A blanket waiver for life saving aid.

[Sam Cedar]

It shut everything Down.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm sorry, on 1 28. It was. A blanket waiver was given. Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

That this will produce 14 million additional deaths by 1030.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can we, let's go through that. Can we do that? Can I address your two studies?

[Sam Cedar]

Sure.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so number one. Well, you've got.

[Sam Cedar]

This is. This one's not a study they're modeling is direct reporting. No, no. By PBS. On the ground in Uganda, 14 million people have died. That people were dying in Uganda because of the destruction of usaid.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, send it to me because. So I did take it up with PBS and here's what I Learned. Since the 2025 dissolution of USAID, the US shifted global health operations to the State Department under the America First Global Health Strategy. The new model still funds the actual medicines, the HIV drugs, the TB meds, the malaria treatments. But we did stop paying directly for some of the operational infrastructure like mobile clinics, fuel, local delivery networks. And that's the core criticism. The medicine still exists, but the quote last mile delivery system broke, rendering some patients in remote villages unable to access care. But here's the catch. When uganda signed a five year memorandum of understanding with the U.S. they got up to $1.7 billion in direct U.S. funding, strictly earmarked to guarantee 100% of physical drug commodity costs and to build high level digital disease surveillance systems. They got an additional 800 million in direct US support, which also flows into the country through global platforms like GAVI and the Global Fund, bringing the total Mac valuation of U.S. commitment to roughly $2.5 billion through 2030. Now, in exchange for this money, the government of Uganda formally assumed full legal and operational responsibility for the Last Mile delivery framework. Uganda legally agreed to fund local clinic operations, absorb distribution logistics and permanently transition thousands of previously US funded frontline healthcare workers and nurses onto its own national public payroll system. Now, on the death toll, they give no numbers and no percentage of increase offered for the quote spike in deaths. But my honest assessment is that one would assume if people can't access care, there's credible reason to believe there were preventable deaths. But with Uganda now responsible for its own system and multiple global donors having backed out, it's difficult to say who truly bears responsibility for them. So in summation, the United States government under the America First Health Strategy, ended its long standing partnership with NGOs for health service delivery, reverting instead to direct engagement with the government of Uganda. The US cited persistent concerns that the NGO led delivery model fostered abuse of American funds, including theft, wastage and limited accountability. How often have you felt like your skincare routine isn't doing much? Well, I've been there. Too many products, not enough real results. I'm drawn to skin care that's actually grounded in real science. And that's exactly what stood out to me about one skin. It was created by PhD researchers. This is serious science that slips seamlessly into my routine. And every time I use One skin, I feel like I'm helping my skin repair damaged cells, boost collagen, and reinforce its barrier from within. It's backed by clinical studies and thousands of five star reviews. One Skin proves you don't need a complicated routine, just one that actually works. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS01 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging. Help you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age and for a limited time, you can try OneSkin with a 15% off usage code. Keeping it real at Oneskin Co. Keeping it real. That's 15% off OneSkin Co with the code keeping it real. And after you purchase, they're gonna ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that I sent you. Okay, well, I'm going to. I'm going to start with your first study. Okay? So you claim numerous times that 600,000 people have died. All right? So first of all, that's a model. It's not. Here's what it is not. Are you ready? A death registry, confirmed bodies, forensic evidence. Who? Mortality census. None of the above. The authority.

[Sam Cedar]

Do you have that?

[Jillian Michaels]

This is yours, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no. I am asking you what counter evidence you have. That's correct. Modeling happens all the time.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. In public, Sam. There isn't any. In fact, there's none. And here's the reason. Because it is impossible to identify exact numbers. The author herself says they're modeling numbers. And I recognize the limitation. And then I'm going to show you the limitations with the study that you never cite. Sam, they're modeling numbers. I recognize you okay? With none, which is why I want to get into. Sam, they're modeling numbers. And I recognize the limitations that this comes with. We don't have routine data sets that we can measure as such as those killed by lack of US Funding. Having said that, okay. What she doesn't take into account for in her modeling, she doesn't take into account any of the waivers. There was a blanket waiver for life saving aid given eight days after Trump's executive order.

[Sam Cedar]

I just read to you a piece from PBS that said that waiver was Irrelevant in terms of actually getting the aid to people because of all the other mechanisms that were destroyed. The waiver was.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, send it to me, send it to me and I'll have the team fact check it right now because Google, Sam, Uganda.

[Sam Cedar]

See spike in disease related deaths.

[Jillian Michaels]

Guys, check that out.

[Sam Cedar]

Elimination of usa.

[Jillian Michaels]

Check that. How many deaths? I did find some through Washington Post, I found a handful. Hardly 600 to 750,000. I found a handful and a handful.

[Sam Cedar]

How many is a handful? Kids?

[Jillian Michaels]

Honestly, I found about eight cases that are documented. And the issue also has to do with war. It's very, very difficult to lock it down. Having said that, you're throwing out numbers that are not true.

[Sam Cedar]

So first their models by the Lancet. I said this is the Lancet study.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, you neglected to mention the problem with this model. A, the author of the study has significant conflicts of interest because she gets grants from usaid. All right, there's flawed math because she's saying that every dollar spent equates to an amount of people saved. That's not true at all. She's got opaque, not rigorous layered modeling. She layers six different historical studies on top of each other and mashes them together. She ignored pre existing duplication which I'm going to give you an example of with the nih, the usaid, the Eco Health alliance is a perfect example which I'm going to give you. Usda, local governments, private philanthropies, she just forgets completely exist. She ignored reassignments because pepfar, as you know, went to the State Department, USDA got food. These things were reassigned.

[Sam Cedar]

There is no, no, first off they were not all reassigned and secondly they weren't. It's one thing to get a waiver, but if you have undermined the entire logistical side, all the contracts are canceled. If all the.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's, let's go to, let's go to USDA because I think you'll like this one. Let's go to that one. So you read the book and I think you get it. You referenced that. It's from 1991. It actually started in the 50s and it was started by Eisenhower and it was a public law, I think 480. Then Kennedy turned it into Food for Peace when he created usaid. Trump grabbed this. You'll like this. This is, this is anti Trump. He grabbed this on the 3rd of February of 2025. Right. And he moved it all under USDA and then he called it America First Food Aid. And what he did was he made sure, sure it's called Tide Aid, which existed but it got expanded over the years. So you referenced 1991. It got worse over the years. So Tide Aid essentially means that all aid has to come from our big ag companies and go through our shippers. We lose 30 cents on every dollar as American taxpayers because of this. Now what it does in the developing world is horrible, but there's no universe. And this is what I mean when I tell you it's a red herring. There's no universal giving up those contracts. It's billions of dollars to Big Ag. Billions of dollars. It moved over in less than two weeks to usda. And the reason I'm telling you it's a red herring is because it's covering up for so much filthy dirty stuff

[Sam Cedar]

that you're saying that the, the, any of the life saving stuff that usaid. Is it your contention the USAID never saved a life?

[Jillian Michaels]

No.

[Sam Cedar]

Never provided. Absolutely not stuff?

[Jillian Michaels]

No.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, what is your contention?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, I'll give you an example. All right. Can I, can I give you an example?

[Sam Cedar]

When I mentioned kids. Can I give you said that's a red herring.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes, it's a red herring because we're still eating them. Sam, you. It's a red herring because wanted to feeding them. They're distracting.

[Sam Cedar]

The contrary. The idea of the corporations. That is your. That is a red herring because if Donald Trump wanted to go in there and reform the that big Ag is getting all the contracts and creating monocultures and growing crops that are not appropriate for those countries, etc. Etc. This is all just sort of like imperialism and it is.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's neocolonialism is right up your alley. Which is why I don't see why

[Sam Cedar]

you don't want to fix that. No.

[Jillian Michaels]

He could have easily didn't want to fix that.

[Sam Cedar]

That's correct. All that ended up happening is all of those bad things continue.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

The only thing that is no longer

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm saying that's my point. None of that has change changing. That's what I was trying to tell you.

[Sam Cedar]

Anti TB stuff. No. Well, let's play the clip and let people decide if that's what you were trying.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, no problem. Guys. It's son number eight. Jillian Defeating starving children thing is such a freaking red herring. So first of all, the vast majority of this USAID bloat and corruption does not go to that. Second of all. And what you don't know and what you have not looked into. Okay. Is that. Read a book. It's called Save three Lives and it's by The Rodale family. And it has to do with the fact that our big ag companies went into the developed world to addict their soil to our GMO crops. It's a money laundering game. They can grow their crops in their soil for far more efficiently and did for thousands of years before conagra and Cargill and Monsanto and ADM went in. You just don't know that because you haven't done your homework. So you're like, oh, there's children starving in Africa. When really it is about billions of dollars going to big ag. That's what that's really about. And I've seen it firsthand when I went to South Sudan and stayed at a refugee camp.

[Sam Cedar]

No.

[Jillian Michaels]

So don't, don't play your starving children card. I can't. So I'm telling you that bloat and corruption is not about the USAID program. But if you're truly concerned about it, it's, it's way worse than not sending puffy, nutty or whatever the paste is. It is because it is actually because

[Sam Cedar]

the budget, the spending by sector from 2024. You said the majority of this stuff.

[Jillian Michaels]

Bloat and corruption. I said the majority of the bloat,

[Sam Cedar]

Internal and child health, basic education, disaster readiness.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, that's not what I said. I said the majority of bloat and corruption is not going to that. Can I give you an example?

[Sam Cedar]

The majority of, of stuff that's not going to them is not going to them. But is your suggestion.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can I give you an example?

[Sam Cedar]

Majority. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm going to try to tell you.

[Sam Cedar]

Are you saying that the, the, the majority of the USAID budget was just bloat?

[Jillian Michaels]

The bloat and corruption that Elon Musk is referencing. He was very clear by the way, that he didn't want to cut a.

[Sam Cedar]

You going to try and argue to me that Doge was somehow successful? It is universally considered an absolute failure.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's talk.

[Sam Cedar]

We didn't save any money.

[Jillian Michaels]

The budget did save money. Not nearly as much. You're absolutely right.

[Sam Cedar]

We didn't save a dime.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can we get into wine?

[Sam Cedar]

The way they went about this was just the most ham fisted way they used AI just to look at contracts and, and, and, and willy nilly. We just had a judge ruling the other day half the stuff is being reversed to the extent that it can be because it was done.

[Jillian Michaels]

So why don't we talk about what he was talking about? You see, if you don't agree with It. Okay, so can I point out something I think that you, you got wrong. I'll give you an example of what we're talking about.

[Sam Cedar]

The COVID pandemic. I think we all know that infectious

[Jillian Michaels]

diseases abroad do not necessarily stay overseas.

[Sam Cedar]

And we prevented, we helped countries prevent and detect infectious diseases before they could come to our borders. And we built partnerships that, you know, helped the United States and built goodwill and on the foundation of American generosity over the course of about six decades that created an international framework that supported the United States success over that time. I mean, it was created under the Kennedy administration along with things like the Peace Corps. This was a way to project or in many respects, like American influence, if not power, but soft power. And to do so by making friends. I mean, like we, you know, we like, like essentially to help people. And it was, I mean, aside from like you say, a lot of this had implications for American health too, because particularly, you know, less so maybe in 1960, but certainly by the time you get to 2020. We saw quite quickly how something that starts all the way around the world can impact this country.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, can I give you some examples about where that's flawed? All right, so us, what I said,

[Sam Cedar]

or the guy who worked at USAID for 10 years. But Sam, both, which, okay, both of us are flood.

[Jillian Michaels]

Both. All right, so USAID gave EcoHealth alliance, which is the organization that funded the Wuhan lab. Okay, they gave them millions of dollars. Part of it quite literally went to bat borne coronavirus research. 1.1 million. They've given them tens of millions simultaneously. These guys are taking money from the NIH for the same thing. They're double billing both agencies. That's bloat, that's corruption. Not only that, okay, just to show you, I'm trying to show you that there is bloat and there is corruption. And this is the kind of stuff that people are upset about. So now if you look at right how corrupt these people are, we have.

[Sam Cedar]

Does that have to do with the USAID funded them.

[Jillian Michaels]

Tens of millions of dots, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

Pathogens.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, the point that Elon Musk was trying to make, and he said so numerous times, he did not say I want to cut food, I want to cut life saving aid. He said the opposite.

[Sam Cedar]

So you said it was a joke. You laughed at it. You literally said it's a red herring and it's a joke.

[Jillian Michaels]

It is a red herring.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, kids dying card.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, what I was saying, if you're

[Sam Cedar]

so worried about bloat and corruption, do you understand that you're that you don't

[Jillian Michaels]

want to see this, do you?

[Sam Cedar]

Donald Trump right now has been selling pardons. He is literally about to get a $1.7 billion slush fund. Agree with you by suing the government.

[Jillian Michaels]

Hate it. And this is his 100% agree with

[Sam Cedar]

you attorney who's the head of the DOJ. And you're talking about like, well, you

[Jillian Michaels]

wanted to debate this, didn't you? Isn't this what you wanted to debate?

[Sam Cedar]

A red herring? No, I just don't think this is. This is all disingenuous, really. The idea of like that somehow that the USAID was targeted to deal with a lab in Wuhan is absurd.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam. It's not absurd. It's absolutely true.

[Sam Cedar]

All of the resources that were cut in the first Trump administration from pandemic, a whole pandemic alarm system with people who are stationed in Wuhan from the United States with a cabinet level secretary who was in charge of keeping the country aware of pathogens that were coming. All of that stuff, waste and bloat until we end up having to shut down.

[Jillian Michaels]

Have you actually listened to anything else I've said about this? Because I could actually.

[Sam Cedar]

I've listened to everything you've said.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so then you would know that

[Sam Cedar]

I said you were crying about what we had said about you on the show.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam. If you'd actually done that, you'd know that I said that this should be like removing a brain tumor. In other words, if USAID is the brain, you need to be slow and strategic about removing.

[Sam Cedar]

I think that's exactly what I was saying on the. With Piers Morgan. Your response was that's a red herring. Don't throw that around.

[Jillian Michaels]

The reason it is a red herring is because they are using you. And when I say they, I'm talking about big Ag. I'm talking about places like EcoHealth alliance to distracting about. Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

The definition of billion dollars. Sam, I'm talking the percentage of what you're talking about. Donald Trump has made more money in the past.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's a separate conversation. Stay on point. You want to talk about this?

[Sam Cedar]

This is all part of one conversation.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

Because when you decide to prioritize shifting big ags, neo colonialism.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's terrible.

[Sam Cedar]

From.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think it's terrible.

[Sam Cedar]

This is USDA at the expense of providing things like malaria care.

[Jillian Michaels]

They did provide malaria, maternal and child health care.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, I'm looking at the cuts.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam. On two, four, right here. So tell me. Here's my question.

[Sam Cedar]

I will tell you then on the.

[Jillian Michaels]

What was the blanket waiver on 2, 4, that specifically is for child mortality and maternal.

[Sam Cedar]

I will give you the actual dollar amounts that were cut from each of these programs. From malaria, 25% cut.

[Jillian Michaels]

But, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

From basic education, 35% cut. From disaster readiness, 24% cut. From pandemic influenza and other emerging threats, 33% cut. I mean, I could just keep going on.

[Jillian Michaels]

Can I address that? And I address that. They are cutting bureaucracy, corruption, fraud and duplication. Was it perfect? No, it wasn't. That's why I'm trying to show you, just with one example on crypto.

[Sam Cedar]

Have you not heard how the guys from Doge did this? They used AI and they just used keywords to cut all these contracts. They're cutting any bloat or waste or whatever you're talking about. There's not a single piece of evidence that there was any bloat or corruption or whatever.

[Jillian Michaels]

It is a ton of evidence. Okay, can I give you more? Can I give you more? Can I give you more?

[Sam Cedar]

I agree with you that we should give you more. Allow big corporations.

[Jillian Michaels]

You want to talk about Afghanistan? Do you want to talk about Haiti?

[Sam Cedar]

Listen, I have talked about both those places significantly. But Doge did nothing to address those issues whatsoever. They have flourished under this administration, Sam. They did nothing.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't disagree with you about that. If you want to say they flourished under this administration, then this. What I would say to you is maybe this is an area where you and I could find some common ground. Because I still stand for what I stand for. But when people are hoping that that stuff dies, there are reasons that they hope it dies. That's what I'm trying to show you. There are.

[Sam Cedar]

For example, you're telling me that the reasons why Doge did this was because they were concerned about neo colonialism.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, that's why I told you that's a red herring. That's not what it was.

[Sam Cedar]

Colonialism is a red herring.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

The children dying is a red herring.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, Sam, what I was telling you is they weren't cutting that ever. It was just moving over to the usda. That's what I was trying.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, that is not what. Let's watch that clip again. Because you specifically said the children dying is a red herring. Not.

[Jillian Michaels]

I said in the very beginning. And we can play it again. I said the corruption and the bloat is not going towards the food. Meaning. That is not what he is talking about. I can play it again. That's what I'm talking.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm just simply looking at all the cuts across the board here, the cuts,

[Jillian Michaels]

A dollar cut of duplication of bloat, of bureaucracy, of corruption does not equate to aid.

[Sam Cedar]

Show me the place sought, whatever number where you have the proof that this is bloat and corruption.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, can I give you examples? I don't have clips of what happened with COVID I can put the articles up.

[Sam Cedar]

So that's bloat and corruption.

[Jillian Michaels]

So, okay, when EcoHealth alliance is given tens of millions of dollars from USAID and they're double billing two different government agencies for the same thing, do you think that's bloat and corruption?

[Sam Cedar]

Eco alliance had this contract in 2024.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, let me give you the exact.

[Sam Cedar]

Or did they. Or that it ended before that?

[Jillian Michaels]

They got the contract. So here we go. Okay, so they got it before that. Obviously. I can get you the exact date if you want. So USAID's Predict program. All right, team, can you give me the exact year that USAID predict gave 1.1 million to Eco Health alliance specifically for a sub agreement with Wuhan Institute of Virology.

[Sam Cedar]

1.1 million.

[Jillian Michaels]

They also got. Listen, I'm not done. They got $83 million in total. Okay, this is just to identify from USAID the connection. Yes, yes.

[Sam Cedar]

83 million from USAID.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes, Sam. Okay, ready? In October. I got it, I got it. Okay, so we have. Hold on. So In October of 2021, USAID awarded 4.67 million grant with total funding obligations that reached 13.1. So some of this has to do with farming in Liberia. Ecohealth also operated as a subrecipient and other multimillion dollar USAID projects, including. Here we go, one health workforce grant and the ready initiative. Total 85 million just for those programs. The ready initiative was 8 million. The Liberia money was 13.1 million. And simultaneously these guys are billing the NIH and they're double billing. That's what I'm trying to show you. Not only are they double billing, if I could just show you this. This is not a gotcha graphic number six. This is the.

[Sam Cedar]

No, it's not.

[Jillian Michaels]

This is a son of a bitch from Eco Health Alliance. Okay, so ready. This is David Morenz from the nih. They got him more money after they were trying to hide the FOIA requests. I'm sorry, hide the emails. And from the FOIA requests that were coming in to show that there was a connection with the coronavirus and the NIH funding. And the USAID funding. Now we know. Ahem. This is David Moren's okay, this is Fauci's guy. Do I get a kickback? Too much fucking money. Do you deserve it all? Let's discuss. And then Peter Daszak goes. Thanks for your kind words. Of course there's a kickback. So do you not think that's shitty? That's gross?

[Sam Cedar]

I think that the. That Doge, that Donald Trump, that Russell vote, that Elon Musk, had the ability to cancel that contract. Instead, what they did is they cut.

[Jillian Michaels]

They did, they did cancel it.

[Sam Cedar]

$5 billion from Protection Assistance and Solutions. They cut $2 billion from HIV AIDS. They cut $672 million, or I should say $300 million from malaria. They cut $200 million from basic education. They cut $200 million, approximately. A little bit more from maternal and child health.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam.

[Sam Cedar]

They cut money from good government. They cut money from disaster resistance, readiness, private sector competitiveness, family planning and reproductive health. I could go on and on. Pandemic influenza. Influenza and other emerging threats.

[Jillian Michaels]

So if they're cutting corrupt organizations like

[Sam Cedar]

eco, the alliance, did they do all of those, Can I give you a

[Jillian Michaels]

bunch of other examples then? Speaking of. Right. Okay, so why don't we look at things like. How about Afghanistan? That was botched. Yeah. Are we on the same. Do you think that was botched?

[Sam Cedar]

Yes. I don't think we should have been there for 20 years.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's totally fine.

[Sam Cedar]

George W. Bushama bin Laden rebuilding.

[Jillian Michaels]

It was a disaster. And it's trillions of dollars. So we.

[Sam Cedar]

I was very much against our occupation of Afghanistan. And in fact, I thought that our invasion of them, we should have just used. It should have been just a police action to get Osama bin Laden.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's totally fine. Separate issue, though. We're talking about bloat and corruption. All right, so you have 2 trillion went into rebuilding the country for 20 years. So you have Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction. And they found trillions of money wasted. Projects were abandoned, infrastructure was unusable. There was corruption, vulnerabilities, obviously, from the government. Ghost employees, like police officers that didn't exist. Massive inability to verify spending. Facilities that were built that collapsed into the ground, that were never used. Schools and clinics that existed only on paper. Same thing with Haiti. And the list goes on and on. So the point is that you can say, oh, they, they cut these trillions of dollars that we're going to schools. Schools that never exist.

[Sam Cedar]

We were out of Afghanistan when.

[Jillian Michaels]

When we're still giving money to the Taliban.

[Sam Cedar]

Elon Musk, when Elon Musk implemented Doge. I don't understand. Well, you're just bringing up examples that corruption and bloat exists in certain areas and therefore it justified cutting off the aid that I'm telling you for usaid. Again, you think there's only eight people who have suffered because of the end of these usaid.

[Jillian Michaels]

It's very difficult to get a quantifiable number.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, what's your estimate?

[Jillian Michaels]

Honestly, considering if we're looking at this honestly, given the fact that you have other governments giving that never was interrupted.

[Sam Cedar]

They have cut back as well, actually, in the wake of our cutting back on usaid, because a lot of these programs had to cut back on January

[Jillian Michaels]

20th of 2025or later down the road.

[Sam Cedar]

No.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. No. All right. So no. So they were giving it the time. So you have a three week interruption for some of this stuff. Some of it one week, some of it two weeks, some of it several weeks. But you have blanket waivers where this was as you very appropriately show me.

[Sam Cedar]

This is from somebody who worked in Uganda. The number. Hey, Bill O'Reilly here. Please check out my new interview series. We'll Do It Live.

[Jillian Michaels]

Each Thursday I sit down with the

[Sam Cedar]

most in fluential people in America. We're a no spin chat, no script. Anything could happen. You can find We'll do it live on Billor.com YouTube or wherever you download your podcast first began to trend downward closer to 10% in terms of deaths after an exemption was issued for certain life sustaining programs. It's still high, but it's lower than during that time. So it did drop after the.

[Jillian Michaels]

I searched and searched. I could not find one quantifiable number. I did find a really good piece in the Washington Post that listed specific cases and one guy who went to South Sudan, I found that.

[Sam Cedar]

But I said there's a guy here in Uganda, Sam.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. And you know what they all say? Well, it's hard to know because there's also starvation and there's also war and there's conflating factors. I couldn't find any concrete numbers.

[Sam Cedar]

I know there's comorbidity.

[Jillian Michaels]

So when I say to you we're looking at a matter of weeks that there was an interruption. Simultaneously you have duplication from other government agencies like the State Department, like the usda, like the cdc, like the nih. So now you have, you have our government agencies that are simultaneously doing it. You have blanket waivers that came into effect within a matter of what was

[Sam Cedar]

the date of us being on that on that show.

[Jillian Michaels]

I know that you had a post about nutty putty. That was March 3rd. And Elon Musk said this contract was reinstated two weeks ago, which would have been. Which would have coincided with the waivers. I know that on the 28th of January, we'd already given a blanket waiver, or Rubio did. I already know there's duplication with government agencies. I know other countries are giving. I know that for a fact. I know that there's local charities. I know that these companies that are getting this money are getting tens of millions of dollars. So I would think that they could probably float it for a couple.

[Sam Cedar]

You think it's all just sort of. Some people are faking it now, a year.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, 600 to $750,000. I'm sorry, 750,000 people. Yes. I think that's inaccurate. And I'm giving you all the reasons why I think it's inaccurate.

[Sam Cedar]

You think the models are inaccurate, you think the Lancet is making this up, etc. Etc.

[Jillian Michaels]

I just told you all of the. I'll tell you one thing for sure, it's absolutely partisan. I was able to see, like, different information coming from both sides. One side says nobody and the other side says millions. I can't find anything concrete online. It's not to say that I think, oh, this is amazing. What I was trying to tell you is that food aid is not stopping. That is a narrative that they were leaning on to distract from other things that are really nefarious, like corruption in Haiti, in Afghanistan.

[Sam Cedar]

I am, I am, I am fully on board with. But nothing, nothing Doge did in any way dealt with all of those things that you're talking about.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, of course not. It helped a little. And, and I think. And if you listen to Ken, you

[Sam Cedar]

have evidence of that or is that your projection?

[Jillian Michaels]

I'll give you two examples. So, guys, which side is it? SOT 13, where Elon Musk talks about what he was able to accomplish? I think.

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, wait a second. So we're going to. Going to trust Elon Musk. We're concerned about the partisanship of somebody who's. He says there was from the heart, from Harvard, is. Is in. Or I should say it's bullshit from the Lancet. And you're going to go to Elon Musk.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm going to go to Marco Rubio. I'm going to go to the State Department. What he talks about is he killed like 200. He created a code to kill zombie payments. He talks about how he was able to be nominally effective, but when he references why he wasn't capable of being super effective. He talks about the bureaucracy and the corruption and the bloat and how it was more entrenched than he ever imagined. It doesn't mean it wasn't.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't need to hear Elon Musk try and justify why he failed so miserably.

[Guest Expert]

What we found with USAID cuts, and by the way, they haven't all been cut. The parts of USAID that we found to be even slightly useful were transferred to the State Department. So they've not been deleted, they've simply been transferred to the State Department. But many, many times over with USAID and other organizations when they said, oh well, this is going to help, you know, children or it's going to help some disease eradication or something like that. And then when we ask for any evidence whatsoever, I say, well, please connect us with this group of children so we can talk to them and understand more about their issue. With we get nothing. We, we don't. They don't even try to prevent show. Come up with a, with, with a show orphan meaning like it's sort of like, well, can we at least see a few kids? Like where, where are they? If they're in trouble, we'd like to talk to them and talk to their caregivers and then we get the thing as a response because it's what we find is an enormous amount of, of fraud and graft.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, let me put this example.

[Guest Expert]

Very little of it actually gets to the kids, if anything at all.

[Jillian Michaels]

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[Sam Cedar]

some type of proof. It also that he cut corruption because he said he did.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so he did. Nothing got changed. What about the duplication of moving things like malaria aid from multiple different agencies just to the State Department? You don't think that could be helpful? No benefit there or drawing some attention?

[Sam Cedar]

I think actually when you get rid of institutional knowledge about the way that systems work and logistics and you do this in the, in the. Particularly in the method in which they did it, I think it's actually incredibly damaging. Yeah.

[Jillian Michaels]

So when all of this moves over to the State Department or the usda, you think.

[Sam Cedar]

In fact, I think the usda. Look, we already know.

[Jillian Michaels]

We already know philanthropies that aren't get engaged involved NGOs that are engaged and involved. You don't think that there's. If you worked for USAID and you were involved in.

[Sam Cedar]

If you worked for usda, your number one agenda would be try and like boost Big Ag. Essentially. Same thing with Food for Peace.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, it was the same. That's why I told you it's a red herring. It's the same.

[Sam Cedar]

You know what red herring means?

[Jillian Michaels]

It's a distraction away from a key issue. I'll give you the. I knew you were going to say that. Actually I pulled

[Sam Cedar]

the, the, the. The death of children and of other

[Jillian Michaels]

people looking the deaths of children. A red herring is a piece of information, clue or line of argument that misleads or distracts from the original relevant topic or issue, which was bloat, corruption, ghost receipts, middleman skipping money. Bureaucracy was dealt with. That's not. You just agreed some very clear.

[Sam Cedar]

Just agreed that it's that. That all the nefarious colonial things have just moved to other agencies.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is it possible that we're saying the same thing? You were worried about food aid and I'm telling you not to worry. It's still happening.

[Sam Cedar]

That's what I was worried about food aid about.

[Jillian Michaels]

You worried about food aid. And I said don't worry, that is still going to happen. That is a red herring and it is still happening 100%. No.

[Sam Cedar]

The argument even that Rodale made in his book was not that the food aid wasn't real, is that it was delivered in a way that whose agenda was the Primary benefit. Big Ag in this instance.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so let's address that.

[Sam Cedar]

And that he said it's actually not the case that disaster direct aid is disaster aid. He thinks there should be more of it.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's disaster aid. So this is ongoing aid. And just the fact that you.

[Sam Cedar]

There was I specifically in that, I think in that Piers Morgan thing talked about. I can't remember the amount now, but it was in.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you know that the USDA purchased 211 million. I'm sorry, 211,000 metric tons of food on February 3rd for disaster food relief.

[Sam Cedar]

There were tons of like, food that. For malnutrition, malnourished kids who couldn't digest actual food, pre digested stuff. And that all just rotted.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, it didn't. It did not. It did not, Sam. So that tweet was put out on March 3rd. I think Jon Favreau put it out. Elon Musk responded immediately and said the contract was reinstated two weeks back and it was put through the USDA. And on February 3rd, the USDA said, We are buying 211,000 metric tons of. Of emergency food aid. That is disaster relief. We're not talking about disaster relief. That's not actually what that book is about. It is about. I can.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, he does mention disaster relief in there.

[Jillian Michaels]

No one is. There's not one person.

[Sam Cedar]

Disaster readiness, 25% cut.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam. A dollar of aid does not equate to food or medication. So when you're cutting things, I'm going to say it one more time. They're cutting duplication, they're cutting bloat, they're cutting corruption.

[Sam Cedar]

According to.

[Jillian Michaels]

So you think. Okay, so real quick, you think. I'm just curious, you think that Big Ag was going to let anything be cut from that contract? Do you? Not that contract. I mean, they're. Right now, do you think that they were going to allow that? Because they didn't.

[Sam Cedar]

I think. Do you think that Trump and Elon Musk could have cut any contract they wanted to? And they specifically did not cut the contracts you're talking about, which was exactly what they did cut a bunch of other stuff that help people, which is

[Jillian Michaels]

exactly what I told you on Piers Morgan, which is why I told you.

[Sam Cedar]

I interpreted. I must have misunderstood.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, well. Well then forgive me. I would hope, actually that you and I may see eye to eye on this because ongoing aid does create dependency and it creates it by design. And if I. And this is not. Listen, I'm not trying to say, oh, you got it wrong. I'm trying to just show you something so that maybe, maybe you'll agree with me and we'll have some common ground. So the way that these guys do this, right, it comes in phases. And this is. I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm literally just trying to educate the audience should they be confused at all. This has gone on since the 50s and it was started by Eisenhower and Kennedy, rebranded it as Food for Peace and it moved through USA, USAID, Trump in 2000 and I'm sorry, Trump in 2025, on February 3rd, moved it to the USDA and made it all tied aid. So Tide aid means that it has to come from our ag companies and ship through our shipping companies. This is in fact terrible. And other countries give cash.

[Sam Cedar]

You did the opposite of what you are advocating.

[Jillian Michaels]

100%. That's what I would advocate with food policy. Absolutely. I'd like to see 24 million that was given to the Children of God orphanage in Kenya that was trafficking kids. I'd like to see that go away. Yes. And the thing is, you also don't, in all fairness, you don't really know anything about me, Sam. I have been doing this a long time.

[Sam Cedar]

I, I don't, I get it.

[Jillian Michaels]

But when you say I don't care. I know, but then don't make accusations if you don't know.

[Sam Cedar]

I was responding to what you said on that program and you said that the kids were a red herring because

[Jillian Michaels]

they were going to get the food anyway. No, no, no. So when I said the bloating, corruption is not about that.

[Sam Cedar]

The cut. So when I, I've just written, quoted from an article from April 22, and

[Jillian Michaels]

tell me, what did they cut though, Sam? So when you say, when you say malarial relief, could it be a cut in duplication? Is that possible? Could it be. Could it be a cut in bureaucracy? Could it be a cut in ghost payments? Is it possible, Sam, do you think you were successful?

[Guest Expert]

We're a little bit successful. We were somewhat successful. I mean, we stopped a lot of funding for that really just made no sense. That was just entirely wasteful. For example, there was like probably 100, maybe $200 billion worth of zombie payments per year, which simply by enforcing that there be a payment code and an explanation for the payment, that the payment would not go out.

[Jillian Michaels]

You do doge, again, knowing what you know now.

[Guest Expert]

I mean, the thing is like, I think instead of doing doge, I would have basically built, you know, worked on my companies, essentially, so. And not. And the cars, they wouldn't have been burning the cars.

[Jillian Michaels]

You gave up a lot to do, Doge.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah. Like, if you, if you, if you stop money going to, going, going for political corruption, they will, they will lash out big time. So they really want the money to keep flowing. So if you stop it from flowing, there's like a very strong reaction to stopping the money flowing.

[Sam Cedar]

I spoke.

[Jillian Michaels]

Is it possible for 10 years. Is it possible.

[Sam Cedar]

I know.

[Jillian Michaels]

And the guy literally didn't even know that we funded Covid partly through usaid. He, like, there's.

[Sam Cedar]

So you're suggesting that we created Covid?

[Jillian Michaels]

I do believe so, yes. I think that we funded. I do think the EcoHealth alliance funded it through money that came from the NIH and the USAID. And I do think that that string of emails from Morens and Daszak is fairly good evidence of that fact. I do believe that. Yeah. And so does the FBI. I think the CIA does now. Like, that's a generally well recognized, not gonna say fact, but thought belief. If you don't think so, that's totally fine. We could litigate it a different time. I do think we did. Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

You don't think we did it on purpose, do you?

[Jillian Michaels]

I have no idea why we would do it. I do know the theories about gain of function research. I can't necessarily tell you. I think they're entirely altruistic. You know, I mean, the argument is like, well, we're just studying what would happen.

[Sam Cedar]

So do you support, like, things like patent reform and antitrust?

[Jillian Michaels]

Of course.

[Sam Cedar]

That would prevent these agents. And so how is it like, do you see yourself supporting a. An administration that has had total control of our government, that has broached laws and constitutional authority to do whatever they want, and they haven't done any of this stuff that would actually in any way.

[Jillian Michaels]

They have. In health. They haven't. They have in health. I'll give you a few.

[Sam Cedar]

They've hurt. I mean, I'll give you like, just even most recently, the. They have rolled back meat processing. For that matter, there was a huge antitrust case against the meat packers.

[Jillian Michaels]

And Trump is definitely like a defense

[Sam Cedar]

attorney who's now the head of the doj. Basically just let them walk away from what was clearly a case that was going to be found to. They have violated antitrust. You see the consolidation of Big Ag across the country.

[Jillian Michaels]

But do you think this is unique to his administration? It's not.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it's. That's.

[Jillian Michaels]

You do. I don't. I don't think so at all. And I would tell you, okay, I

[Sam Cedar]

don't, because all of these.

[Jillian Michaels]

I've worked for numerous administrations. I worked with the Clintons, I worked with the Obama administration on this. I don't actually work with Obama on

[Sam Cedar]

antitrust, without a doubt. But under the Biden administration, all of these antitrust cases were lined up, and the Trump administration has basically just ejected them. I mean, that's it.

[Jillian Michaels]

But I'm not arguing with you about that. If you're asking me what I see, I see evil, and I see the need to pick a lesser one. If there's a different option, that would be wonderful. I'm not actually part of.

[Sam Cedar]

Do you consider Trump the lesser evil? I do. Who's the lesser evil?

[Jillian Michaels]

I do. I actually do.

[Sam Cedar]

And in what respect?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, I'll give you an example. In the area that I am in is my wheelhouse. So when it comes to health, let's say insurance, pharma, food policy, with Trump, you get one and you lose one. You get one and you lose one.

[Sam Cedar]

What's the one you get?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so when Kennedy redesigned, we'll call it the Food Guidelines, it's not just an infographic. So it guides hundreds of millions in subsidy flows. Now, by doing that, by redesigning it, what he's forcing is he's forcing more of our tax dollars to go towards healthier food. And he's forcing areas, food deserts. Okay, so what's gonna fund. What is the Food Pyramid Fund? Right. It's gonna fund lunch for our kids in school, military. It's prisons, all that stuff. That's what guides what gets fed to your kids in public school, for example, or our soldiers in the military. By changing that, we're forcing the funding of healthier options, and we're forcing their availability into 250. I think Brooke Rollins said 250,000 locations. We have food deserts. That's a win going after.

[Sam Cedar]

Yeah. So how are the food deserts being. I mean, because they take.

[Jillian Michaels]

They take snap. Because they take snap.

[Sam Cedar]

Donnie, first of all, this administration has kicked tons of people, I mean, three to four million people off of snap.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, let's go through. So what do you agree with about that and what don't you. I'll tell you what I don't agree

[Sam Cedar]

with about Mamdani is actually literally addressing food deserts.

[Jillian Michaels]

The first. Okay, Sam, we could definitely look at the economics of mom. Donnie. They've done it before in New York in the 70s, and it didn't work. And that. That food, that. That supermarket is $30 million for one market. It happens in four years when his term is up what?

[Sam Cedar]

Just to be clear, go more aggressively on it. I'm with you on that, but.

[Jillian Michaels]

So I don't think it works. But I would definitely get an RFK

[Sam Cedar]

in doing and changing the food pyramid has, is going to deal with food deserts. How's that happening?

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, here's how it happens. If a place that takes SNAP benefits, right. If they take SNAP benefits, they are forced to offer what the guidelines recommend. I could even find you, if someone can find me a clip like Brooke Rollins says she is going to demand now that 250,000 locations carry healthier options. Can I guarantee.

[Sam Cedar]

How is she gonna do demand?

[Jillian Michaels]

Because if they take. You can't take SNAP if you don't offer the food on the.

[Sam Cedar]

The market solution here is we've subsidized food purchases.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

And if we don't allow, I'd like

[Jillian Michaels]

to subsidize healthier food. The food pyramid directs those subsidy flows. So by.

[Sam Cedar]

You would have to argue that there is enough of a margin for those people to acquire the, the foods that you're talking about without any other subsidies. Just that the market forces there are going to do it so that these small bodegas that may exist in these food deserts, for instance, they're going to, they're going to buy the fresh fruit and produce.

[Jillian Michaels]

If they take any other incentive to offer the food that the pyramid recommends,

[Sam Cedar]

this, the snap, their only eligibility is associated with having to offer those. And you think that there is any type of enforcement mechanism that's going to come in and do that?

[Jillian Michaels]

I do, I do.

[Sam Cedar]

What is the enforcement?

[Jillian Michaels]

What do you think about. What do you think about food in schools? How do you think, how do you think that flows? What directs that, what directs food in schools? What directs the food that we feed to the military?

[Sam Cedar]

What, what, what directs it?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah, like what informs. What your, if your kid went to a public school, what would inform what's on their plate?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, in New York City, I mean it's programs that are city based. Now certainly there's federal money available for specific schools.

[Jillian Michaels]

Public schools are. The food in front of your kid, if they go to a public school is directed by the food pyramid. That's why it's more than just a food. An infographic.

[Sam Cedar]

I get it. I can tell you though that the food varies from public school to public school. Having sent two kids to public school in New York City, it is a function of a lot of things. It is not just one set of foods. And yes, I get that the food pyramid does that, but I, I'll give

[Jillian Michaels]

you two other examples. I'll give you two other examples.

[Sam Cedar]

How about the FDA has not issued a single new food regulation. The FDA has not banned a single chemical in any food.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's not true. They banned, they banned one and they're reevaluating the grass rule. That's not true. So now, so the way the grass

[Sam Cedar]

rule works, they have asked the, the industry to remove certain dyes.

[Jillian Michaels]

They have three years, I believe to do that. That, and that, that is not enough. There are thousands of chemicals.

[Sam Cedar]

It's not a ban. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's an ask. Okay.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't believe so. Red number, I think it's 40. That's, that's, it has to be removed within several years.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm in favor of it, but I just, I think that like what's going on, Santo? When you see what's going up with Roundup, when you see all these different things, I'm very skeptical, but I.

[Jillian Michaels]

As you should be. Change as you should be. But it does not mean. I'll give you two other examples. Okay, so the grass rule, which is the generally recognized as safe rule, is a food loophole that allows Big Food to just vouch for the safety of the chemicals on their product. So Kennedy is closing that door. He's closing the grass loophole. That to me is a good thing. I'll take it. I haven't gotten anything like it out of any administration I've ever worked with. I'll give you another one. Pharmacy benefit managers. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with this at all. And it's confusing. So I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm just trying to explain. And I'm just trying to explain to

[Sam Cedar]

the eyes I don't know very much about PBMs.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Okay. So now they're forcing the clawback to go back to the patient instead of the insurance company. That's a good thing. Dr. Oz is going after the pre authorizations which people end up dying waiting for things to be authorized through their insurance. Like these are things. I haven't seen anything like it. And I.

[Sam Cedar]

A lot of the work on the PBMS was started under the Biden administration. The negotiating with Medicare that the Trump administration is.

[Jillian Michaels]

No work with PBMs. Show me, show me this, show me the work that the Biden administration did on PBMs. Show me. That's actually completely news to me. I haven't seen any laws they passed blocking that. That Kind of vertical integration. If they did. Amazing.

[Sam Cedar]

The FTC released two major interim reports investigating pbm.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's an investigation. What did they change?

[Sam Cedar]

This is the way that the government works. This is what government does. I'm not done. They filed an administrative complaint against three of the largest PBMs, CBS Express and Optimum. Medicare Part D rules. Implemented new rules in 2024 to regulate how PBMs operate within Medicare Part D. The acrimination.

[Jillian Michaels]

Nothing they didn't take away.

[Sam Cedar]

So, okay, the, the Inflation Reduction act, in the whole negotiating directly from Medicare to negotiate drug prices sidestep PBMs. I mean, you, you say what changed? I just told you. They were the first ones to act upon this.

[Jillian Michaels]

But nothing came out of it.

[Sam Cedar]

The government right now is operating on, in terms of their knowledge of PBMs came from the Biden administration.

[Jillian Michaels]

That actually didn't come from the Biden administration. So let's take a moment to evaluate the policy differences between the Biden and Trump administrations regarding pharmacy benefit managers. The Inflation Reduction act gave the federal government the right to negotiate lower prices on select drugs, but it never touched the PBMs themselves. They still controlled the formularies, which is the list of drugs that your insurance actually covers. So when a drug's price got forced down and the PBMs lost their rebates on it, they retaliated by just burying those cheaper drugs in higher cost tiers. And then they added prior authorization hurdles. And when junk fees got banned at the pharmacy counter, they just raised monthly premiums to recoup the loss. And the result was a marginal change at best. So when the first round of negotiated prices finally took effect in 26, they covered only 10 drugs and saved roughly 3 cents on every dollar. And by law, not 1 cent of savings actually reached anyone on a commercial insurance plan. The Trump administration looked at that track record and they went after the mechanism itself. And this is what I mean when I say I sat in the rooms where it was discussed. The Consolidated Appropriations act signed February 2026 under the Trump administration, does three things. The inflation Reduction act never attempted. It legally delinks PBM compensation from drug prices and REB forcing flat fees, destroying their core incentive to favor expensive drugs over cheaper generics. It mandates 100% of manufacturer rebates passed directly to health plans and consumers, eliminating the hidden spread pricing that's been skimming billions out of the system for decades. And it extends those protections into the commercial market, covering the employer sponsored plans that Biden's model by law explicitly left behind. And on top of that, TrumpRx.gov launched in February 2026 as a federal price transparency portal, gave patients direct access to comparable cash prices across major platforms and manufacturer discounts on high cost drugs, including GLP1s visible comparable pricing that the PBM model was specifically designed to prevent. The reforms fully kick in in 2028-2029, but the incentive structure that made the system corrupt has been legally dismantled through legislation that can't be undone by a regulatory pen if you haven't heard of Beam's Dream Powder, let me tell you this one is different. Not just because it changed how I sleep, but because of the people behind it. Beam is American, made by real people focused on creating something that actually helps For a long time my nights were rough. I was tossing and turning, then dragging myself through the next day on caffeine. And when you're running on empty, it's hard to show up for what matters. Now with Dream I sleep through the night and I wake up clear headed and present. It's made with all natural ingredients like Reishi, magnesium, L theanine, apigenin and melatonin without the drugstore fog. It tastes great. The chocolate peanut butter flavor is my absolute Go to guys. Spring is here. Summer's right around the corner. This is the season to show up strong. So do it with something made by Americans for Americans. Do it with dream. Go to shopbeam.com real use the code real and get my exclusive offer for up to 40% off Beam's Dream powder. So with my discount code real you get their best selling Dream powder for just 39. If you've been meaning to fix your sleep, this is the time. I was in the room when this was being discussed.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, at where? Which one? The ofTC or the DOJ?

[Jillian Michaels]

I've sat in the room. One room, but all right, a room with Kennedy and people like Dr. Oz when they were discussing how this exact flow with a middleman works.

[Sam Cedar]

Well, you didn't sit any rooms.

[Jillian Michaels]

I didn't see you.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, you're right.

[Jillian Michaels]

I didn't have those conversations with Kennedy or Dr. Oz or any of that. Who then went and joined the administration. None of that happened. I have video of it, but none of it happened. When I testified, none of that happened. I have video of those comments, conversations, but none of it happened.

[Sam Cedar]

Not what I was talking about.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Okay. So again, I don't know what else to tell you. This stuff does matter to me. What else? Would you like to litigate about it? I'm not quite sure. Tell me what Else you want to discuss, I'll discuss it with you. These are the things that matter to me.

[Sam Cedar]

Not the wars, not the.

[Jillian Michaels]

But if you want to talk about war, Biden is the one who. We got into Ukraine under Biden.

[Sam Cedar]

And what do you mean we got into Ukraine? There was Ukraine.

[Jillian Michaels]

But Sam, there were potential off ramps for that, one would argue, like the Minsk Accords. There were potential off ramps.

[Sam Cedar]

I think Ukraine didn't want to give up territory.

[Jillian Michaels]

They didn't have to give up the territory in 22.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't see why they didn't have

[Jillian Michaels]

to give up the territory.

[Sam Cedar]

Had any more opportunity to end this than Trump does.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't agree with you. I think that there were opportunities at the Minsk Accords that provided off ramps and we didn't take them. Why we didn't take them, I could posit, again, it's we now.

[Sam Cedar]

So under Biden, we controlled Ukraine, but under Trump, we don't control Ukraine.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, let's look at that one. And I, this is the way I perceive it. We pushed and we pushed and we pushed with regard to expanding NATO and we promised we wouldn't. Right. There was a hard red line. You've got the memo. I think it was from was it burns to Condoleezza Rice. That was like, under no circumstance should you add Ukraine to NATO. It is a hard red line. Like I can't remember yet means yet. It was something like that. Like, do not do it. We've known for a long time that this would trigger somewhat of a disaster. Correct me if I'm wrong, cut to. We've had numerous opportunities to take an off ramp prior to this.

[Sam Cedar]

Russia's Ukraine was never admitted into NATO,

[Jillian Michaels]

but they wanted to be admitted to

[Sam Cedar]

NATO, which is what Ukraine did want to be. We also had an obligation from 93 to provide defense for Ukraine in exchange for them to give up their nukes.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, what does that have to do with Putin saying, I don't want them to go to NATO?

[Sam Cedar]

Well, they didn't go to NATO, but they.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so what?

[Sam Cedar]

They're not in NATO now.

[Jillian Michaels]

So what triggered. So in the Minsk Accords, what triggered Putin's invasion? Tell me what triggered it.

[Sam Cedar]

What triggered his invasion?

[Jillian Michaels]

What triggered the invasion? So we blew the Minsk Accords. We had an opportunity to reinvigorate that in 22 to fix that whole situation. And we. It didn't fell apart. There was an opportunity.

[Sam Cedar]

So you're justifying the invasion of Ukraine because.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, I'm not justifying it. I've been on the record Saying, I think Putin is a monster. I think there were opportunities to negotiate this before it got this far. I don't know how. How would you get Putin out of Ukraine at this point? He's arguably winning. What's the leverage?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know if he is winning. I don't know. I have. I mean, I.

[Jillian Michaels]

Seems like it. So what's the leverage now? We had more leverage in 22. We don't seem to have with.

[Sam Cedar]

We had more leverage in 22. With whom? With Ukraine or with.

[Jillian Michaels]

With Russia before they were what appears to be winning?

[Sam Cedar]

What was our leverage with Russia?

[Jillian Michaels]

What did Putin want? What did he want? He said, do not add what. Let's.

[Sam Cedar]

I think he wants Ukraine.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's look it up. Let's look it up. What happened? What was his ultimatum in 2022?

[Sam Cedar]

I think he wants Ukraine.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's not what caused his invasion, though. We had an opportunity to negotiate that situation in 2022, so I think he wanted Ukraine.

[Sam Cedar]

I think that's what it is. You have countries like invading Ukraine in

[Jillian Michaels]

say, see if I can. Okay. Historical grievances, deep seated fears of Western democratic influence. Okay. Fear of Western expansion. Putin perceived Ukraine's pivot towards Western institutions, particularly the EU and NATO, as an existential threat to Russia's geopolitical sphere of influence and security. That's what I just said.

[Sam Cedar]

I understand.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's what I just said.

[Sam Cedar]

I, I understand eventually, okay, the. That Putin says that it was because there was. There's. It's an existential threat to have an independent Ukraine to them. But, I mean, let's see. I don't think that justifies an invasion.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'm not telling you it justifies an invasion. I'm telling you there was an opportunity in 2020.

[Sam Cedar]

What would America should have done at that point? We had a pact with them to provide defense against.

[Jillian Michaels]

I wouldn't have continued expanding NATO. It seems like that was kind of a big deal.

[Sam Cedar]

What was the NATO expansion in that direction?

[Jillian Michaels]

As far as I know, we have. Okay. Most of what, hold on.

[Sam Cedar]

The US So when we promise to expand to Ukraine.

[Jillian Michaels]

When we promised. Right. When was this Reagan administration. We promised we wouldn't expand NATO. Would we add like 15 countries and put it all the way on their border? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So hold on. What did the US Promise Russia about NATO expansion? Wasn't this Reagan what Gorbachev heard? All right, hang on. 1990 assurances? Is that it? Okay. James Baker told Soviet leader Mikhail, Here, Mikhail Gorbachev, that there would not be one. An expansion. One inch eastward. Okay. So since then, we've added like 15 countries and we're about to move it all the way to their border. Like, probably just shouldn't have done that since then,

[Sam Cedar]

as far as I know.

[Jillian Michaels]

Country NATO. Okay, see,

[Sam Cedar]

We did move.

[Jillian Michaels]

We added 16 countries after we promised not one here. Since 1990, NATO has expanded to include 16 new member countries through six waves of enlargement, increasing its total membership from 16 to 32. The expansion incorporated nations from Eastern Europe and the northern region. And we put it right on the border there, which was a no, no. And we have. Was it WikiLeaks or was it Julian Assange? What was it that leaked the memo from Burns to Condoleezzare saying. No, I'm just saying. So if you're going to say Trump is a president of war, I don't actually agree with you. I don't think so.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm talking about Iran.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, let's talk about Iran.

[Sam Cedar]

We attacked Iran. We did. We did not attack Russia.

[Jillian Michaels]

True.

[Sam Cedar]

You understand you're comparing providing defensive weaponry to Ukraine. Is this a literally bombing another country?

[Jillian Michaels]

My feeling on Iran right now is that we don't really know how it's going to turn out so far.

[Sam Cedar]

What do you mean we don't know how it's going to turn out? We already know.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right now, I don't agree with you

[Sam Cedar]

that we have killed thousands of civilians. We have expended thousands of civilians.

[Jillian Michaels]

We've killed thousands of Iranian civilians on the street.

[Sam Cedar]

We've killed thousands of Iranians. Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

Civilians. Or, or the IRGC civilians.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't think that's controversial at all.

[Jillian Michaels]

Really? All right, team, have we killed thousands of Iranian civilians? I know there was some skepticism over a school.

[Sam Cedar]

There's skepticism over that school.

[Jillian Michaels]

Yes.

[Sam Cedar]

Because I don't even think the US Government has denied it.

[Jillian Michaels]

They just said that they actually, they've said that they think that it was probably an IRGC missile potentially hitting the school. And there's no defined answer because I tried to find it. How many.

[Sam Cedar]

I mean, the level of delusion to argue that somehow we're not engaged in a war and that work out okay?

[Jillian Michaels]

I do think it can work out. Okay.

[Sam Cedar]

Like you're, you're. To the light of.

[Jillian Michaels]

Of, of, you know, the US Killed

[Sam Cedar]

significant portion of the Republican Party. I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's see, how many civilians have we killed? Okay, so how many do you think it is?

[Sam Cedar]

How many do I think it is?

[Jillian Michaels]

Yeah.

[Sam Cedar]

I think we've killed probably thousands.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. The Manob school strike is the first thing that comes up. The primary incident under US military investigation is a strike on an all girls school near Manob which killed at least 156 to 175. Okay. Urban strikes. Independent documentation from news outlets like the May news agency notes. Specific incidents like an attack on Tehran's Nilofar Square. I don't know if this is us that killed 20 civilians.

[Sam Cedar]

Human rights says 1700 civilian deaths. Civilians. Tens of thousands have been wounded, supposedly. I mean, I, I don't think tens

[Jillian Michaels]

of thousands of civilians or irgc, which I don't really, to be honest, I don't really.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't really.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't really feel bad if, if the irgc, who's hanging teenagers, I don't really feel bad if they're being killed. I would rather, I'd rather see the IRGC not beat women to death for their hair sticking out of their hijab or engage in sexual torture. Like, I don't really feel bad about the ircc.

[Sam Cedar]

That's exactly why we were sold to go into Afghanistan too.

[Jillian Michaels]

But we don't, we don't have boots on the ground in Afghanistan. We've lost 14 million soldiers. We're in the process of a negotiation, are we not? How many 14 soldiers are soldiers?

[Sam Cedar]

I thought you said 14 million. 14 soldiers we've lost. You know, we're spending billions upon billions of dollars.

[Jillian Michaels]

If first of all, you were so

[Sam Cedar]

concerned about, okay, we're going to end up.

[Jillian Michaels]

Do you know that that's a fraction of just a fraud in California? Just a fraction, Just a fraction of the fraud in California? I do think. Tell me something. I have a question for you. Why. Why would Iran enrich uranium to up to 60%? Why? We have that. We have that independently verified.

[Sam Cedar]

Why would they. Why would they store it?

[Jillian Michaels]

Why would they enrich it? Why would they enrich it up to 60%. Why?

[Sam Cedar]

Because it's leverage.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, you want them. I don't want them to have.

[Sam Cedar]

They didn't start to do this until Trump unilaterally got out of the jpoa.

[Jillian Michaels]

That is not true.

[Sam Cedar]

It is true.

[Jillian Michaels]

No, it isn't.

[Sam Cedar]

And they built up their stockpiles. They.

[Jillian Michaels]

So Iran has never been a threat. They haven't chanted death to America. They haven't had a nuclear program. It hasn't been a problem for years.

[Sam Cedar]

They haven't had a nuclear program outside of starting.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why did they. So they enriched it because of Trump. Okay, so that's the reason.

[Sam Cedar]

No, no, no. They didn't enrich it because of Trump. Trump was the one who took us out of the deal, that if we're lucky we would.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why did he take us out of the deal, Sam?

[Sam Cedar]

Because he resented that Obama signed it. I have no idea. Because there were also people in his administration who wanted to have more of a conflict with Iran. And it wasn't until his second term right now that he was able to. And so Iran, had they a nuclear weapon, I think we probably would not be bombing them.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's true. We probably would not be.

[Sam Cedar]

It is the most rational thing in the world for them to pursue that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, I personally do not want.

[Sam Cedar]

Unless they get the benefits. And they have put on the table on multiple occasions already deals. In fact, the PM of Oman who was doing the negotiation said that Iran had made a deal to get rid of all of their enriched uranium.

[Jillian Michaels]

That they would not stop. They would only.

[Sam Cedar]

They. Excuse me, let me finish. They would only enrich uranium at a level that was necessary for a civilian nuclear power program.

[Jillian Michaels]

Just said they wouldn't.

[Sam Cedar]

And Witkoff and Kushner, for whatever reasons, some speculate because they didn't come with any experts on. On nukes. Some speculate because Jared Kushner has a lot of interests outside of that room that he is working for. I don't know what the answer is to either one of those, but we do know that this offer was put on the table while the deal United States attacked.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so you're saying Iran never violated the jcpoa? Never.

[Sam Cedar]

I don't know if they never violated, but they certainly didn't increase their uranium productions. I'm sure on some level there were probably a specific type of 130 metric

[Jillian Michaels]

tons in 2016 of heavy water stockpile that I guess you use to enrich uranium. Advanced centrifuge development in 2016, 2017. Systemic, deliberate breaches of the deal in 2019 and 2021 following the deal was exceeding enrichment purity capsules. JCPOA strictly limited uranium enrichment to 3.67 and they had enriched to 20% in 2019. No, 2018. What do you mean it's happened under Trump? This has been happening. It's been happening. I don't want them to have a nuclear weapon. I don't. So it's one thing to say they don't have one. Okay, but then just tell me why then are they violating the jcpoa? Before Trump,

[Sam Cedar]

it was. Trump unilaterally left it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Unilaterally left it. What do you mean he quit?

[Sam Cedar]

He quit the.

[Jillian Michaels]

He quit it why did he quit it, though, Sam? You know Obama gave them pallets of cash, right?

[Sam Cedar]

Oh, do you know how much cash they made? Twice that in selling their oil in the wake of our bombing.

[Jillian Michaels]

Well, this is one of the reasons that if Trump can get China to buy oil from us, that's a nice little checkmate without us having boots on the ground. I would actually like to see. I think the Iranian regime is a cancer. I think they're the number one funders of terror. I think they're evil in the atrocities that they commit.

[Sam Cedar]

What?

[Jillian Michaels]

They don't fund Hamas. They don't fund Hezbollah. They don't really. They're not the number one funders of terror in the world.

[Sam Cedar]

I meant international terror. That would implicate us.

[Jillian Michaels]

They fund terrorist organizations. I'm not. I'm not for it.

[Sam Cedar]

They fund. They fund. I mean, I don't know. Hezbollah is more of these militia and a parliament military.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay. Do they fund those groups, though? Yes, they're the number one. Okay. They're the top disrupting force in the Middle East. Why would the Saudi.

[Sam Cedar]

In. In what manner?

[Jillian Michaels]

You tell me. Why does the Saudi Crown prince.

[Sam Cedar]

I think a lot of people would suggest that Israel is the top disruptive force.

[Jillian Michaels]

Why does the Saudi crown prince say that the Ayatollah was like Hitler? Why, if he's such.

[Sam Cedar]

Because he has a rival country and is in. Is in competition.

[Jillian Michaels]

So. So the Abraham Accords region, If this regime ended up falling and you could expand the Abraham Accords, you think that's a bad thing? If they were incapable of funding terrorist organizations, do you think that's a bad thing? If the Iran never was able to

[Sam Cedar]

get a nuclear weapon, it's a bad thing?

[Jillian Michaels]

I just don't think it's bad.

[Sam Cedar]

New dictator in Iran. Would that be better? Is that what you're suggesting? Like the Shah?

[Jillian Michaels]

I think it'd probably be the same. Oh, the Shah. Who are you talking about? Reza Pahlavi. I don't think that he's as nearly as bad as the Iota.

[Sam Cedar]

I'm not saying you should install a new shah. I'm talking about the old shah. His father.

[Jillian Michaels]

I don't think his father was as bad as the Ayatollah. No. I do know that he had, like, secret police and all of that, but I don't think he was as bad as the Ayatollah.

[Sam Cedar]

No. And you do know that it was the United States that put him into power?

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's actually relitigate that for just a moment. So when did that happen? We went in 1950 years. Right. And when did it happen? 1950. Right.

[Sam Cedar]

I think it was 53. Maybe it was 51.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so there's actually. Actually watched a whole thing on this and I would have prepared better for you, but 20 something years later, we weren't. We weren't involved in that. 20 something years later after we got involved.

[Sam Cedar]

A, A 79.

[Jillian Michaels]

That's 20 something years later.

[Sam Cedar]

Yes.

[Jillian Michaels]

By the way, the guy that the Shaw replaced was a horrible person. I remember I had a whole interview about this. Hold on. I didn't know we were going to talk about this, so. All right.

[Sam Cedar]

It's all right. Let's not.

[Jillian Michaels]

I mean, but hold on. Who did. He was like a whole horrible person that the Iranians hated. I know that we thought that he was like this really good guy, but

[Sam Cedar]

he actually wasn't in getting rid of their democratic elected leader.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam. That happened in the 50s though they. The Ayatollah.

[Sam Cedar]

30 years later, nothing matters. I get it. Honestly, there's no point in us talking about it here.

[Jillian Michaels]

I'll tell you, it's actually really interesting. Admittedly this is a totally irrelevant sidebar, but it is kind of an interesting story. So if you want to know the history behind what really happened to Mosaddegh, I have a link to it in the show notes. I mean, I, I can't remember his name. Okay. Mosaddegh. That's right. Okay, hang on.

[Sam Cedar]

I've run out of time. It's 4:30.

[Jillian Michaels]

All right, well, do you have any more.

[Sam Cedar]

I was actually gonna tell you thoughts to where I've. I or anybody on my show has offended you. I'm happy to.

[Jillian Michaels]

Mossadegh's signature achievement. Okay. He. He created severe economic collapse, retreat from democratic principles and power grabs. Like Mossadegh actually wasn't this tremendous guy. I actually did. I forgot this because it was about six months ago, so forgive me if I don't remember the details, but he turned out not to be a tremendous guy.

[Sam Cedar]

So what other tremendous guys do you think the United States should be overthrowing?

[Jillian Michaels]

What I'm saying is that people did not actually love Mossadegh. So yes, I do know that it was mostly MI6, not necessarily the CIA, but we were involved that did get involved in that coup. It was like 20 something years later though that the Ayatollah came to power. We weren't involved in that.

[Sam Cedar]

We weren't involved in the Ayatollah coming to power. No. It was because the Iranians overthrew their government.

[Jillian Michaels]

Right. We're in agreement on that fact. I'm not quite sure exactly. Your argument is that Iran's enriching uranium because of Trump, that the JCPOA was. I'm saying that the, I don't, the facts don't show that, though.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, well, you're the only person I

[Jillian Michaels]

just read them to you.

[Sam Cedar]

But I know you just, you just read about it, so you must know.

[Jillian Michaels]

Okay, so, so what's online is wrong. All right, I'll draw.

[Sam Cedar]

I'll draw. This is not a controversial issue. The real issue that the neocons and your buddies who are in favor of this attacking Iran and doing it because they're perceiving we've lost 14 soldiers, which

[Jillian Michaels]

is terrible, but they've killed hundreds of Americans over the last 47 years.

[Sam Cedar]

Obama's deal did not go far enough in their estimation in terms of curbing Iran's, you know, proxies, whether that was the Houthis or whether it was Hezbollah or whomever. And the, the, if, if Trump is successful and they're in striking a deal with Iran, 47.

[Jillian Michaels]

I think it would be a great thing. Will that happen?

[Sam Cedar]

I don't get rid of Iran and they finally found an American president who's willing to do it. And that's what this.

[Jillian Michaels]

So, so what about, what about the fact that the Saudis want to get rid of Iran? Do you just blame, just blame Israel?

[Sam Cedar]

I'm quite, I'm quite.

[Jillian Michaels]

For every single president that has said I'm going to deal with Iran. Don't. Every single one. But like that. What about that? What about them? Just listen.

[Sam Cedar]

Just Trump Iranians came to George W. Bush and tried to make a deal in the wake of 911 that was completely comprehensive. And in fact, not only did they do this though, they brought the deal to the Swiss, the Swiss went to the United States and said, here's a big deal. Iran is willing to stop fun that

[Jillian Michaels]

they adhere to the JCPOA and Trump ruin it.

[Sam Cedar]

And the Bush administration was so upset that there was a chance for peace with Iran that they sanctioned Switzerland for even delivering the message.

[Jillian Michaels]

What does that have to do with Trump? I didn't vote for Bush. What does that have to do with any of this?

[Sam Cedar]

It is the same that has been operating this hostility towards Iran and Biden hostility towards Iran.

[Jillian Michaels]

So when they, when they chant Death

[Sam Cedar]

to America, they've in my criticism, hundreds

[Jillian Michaels]

of Americans over the last 47 years,

[Sam Cedar]

JPO say is the, the JPCOA. And I, in retrospect, I realized you

[Jillian Michaels]

think Iran is this great regime no threat, no worry, don't care if they have a nuclear weapon.

[Sam Cedar]

Exactly what they said. This is exactly, verbatim what you're saying to me right now is exactly what they said to people who said we should not be invading Iraq.

[Jillian Michaels]

Let's go. There's so many differences that it's staggering. We had boots on the ground in Iraq and there were no weapons of mass destruction.

[Sam Cedar]

I was crazy.

[Jillian Michaels]

Here. We don't have boots on. On the ground and there's 60% enriched uranium and they're funding terror proxies Night Meet day. Totally different.

[Sam Cedar]

I see. It's a completely different set of reasons why we're invading this country.

[Jillian Michaels]

There were no weapons of mass destruction. There's 60% enriched uranium and a failure to comply with the IA and A funding of terror proxy destruction. Do you know how long. How long? I'm going to ask you one question. How long to get from 60% to weapons grade?

[Sam Cedar]

My understanding, according to Donald Trump, is that we were two weeks away.

[Jillian Michaels]

That does seem to be. That does seem to be the number. That the lift from 60% to weapons grade is only a matter of weeks. I'm not. Okay, all right, I'll look it up.

[Sam Cedar]

You should talk to the CIA.

[Jillian Michaels]

I actually did speak to somebody from the CIA. That's where I got it wrong.

[Sam Cedar]

There is no reason to have 60% enriched uranium if you are claiming that you have a civilian peaceful nuclear program. Nothing over 5% makes sense. You don't need it, and yet they've been stockpiling it.

[Guest Expert]

Getting from 60% of weapons grade is the easy lift.

[Jillian Michaels]

I spoke. Okay. How long is the time frame to get from.

[Sam Cedar]

Okay, honestly, I gotta go. This has been great. Very edifying and appreciate it.

[Jillian Michaels]

Thank you for having me on to weapons grade. I'm just curious. The short answer is a matter of days to roughly one to two weeks. Sam. That's the answer.

[Sam Cedar]

Days and weeks away from. From a nuclear weapon. It's amazing how. How many years, for decades I've been hearing that.

[Jillian Michaels]

Sam, they had 60 enriched uranium. It takes. Literally. The short answer is a matter of days to roughly one to two weeks. And I did speak to somebody from the Seattle. No. Okay. All right. How long is the time frame to get from 60% enriched uranium to weapons grade? The short answer is a matter of days to roughly one to two weeks. Because the law of physics and nuclear engineering because of the laws of physics and nuclear engineering, uranium enrichment is not a linear process. Moving from Natural uranium to 0.07 purity to 20% enrichment takes about 90% of the total effort effort. Once uranium has already been enriched to 60%, nearly all of the heavy lifting is done. The final dash to weapons grade 90% purity requires only removing one microscopic fraction of unwanted isotopes. I guess that's the end of the show. Thank you so much for watching. If you enjoyed the podcast, please like, comment, subscribe and share and make sure to let me know what guests you want to see on in the future.