← Kermode on Film
Kermode on Film
Callum Turner, George Mackay and Mark Jenkin on ROSE OF NEVADA
00:39:11
Mark Kermode Live in 3D at the BFI Southbank, recorded 27 April 2026
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- [00:00]
Mark Jenkin
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- [00:02]
Mark Kermode
Hold on one second.
- [00:06]
Mark Jenkin
I just need to. What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications, no expectations, just space to talk with. BetterHelp therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy. In every job that must be done,
- [00:35]
Mark Kermode
there is an element of fun. You find the fun and snap.
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- [00:52]
Mark Kermode
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Mark Jenkin
You really don't want me to play, huh? No, I do.
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Advertisement Voice
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- [01:06]
Mark Kermode
Hi, this is Mark Kermode. Thanks for downloading this Kermode on Film podcast. In this episode, we get to hear the second half of the MK3D show, recorded live at the BFI Southbank on 27 April 2026. This episode is dedicated to. What's my film of the year at the moment? Rose of Nevada. I'm thrilled to talk to director Mark Jenkin and the brilliant George Mackay and Callum Turner about their film and their film influences. So sit back, relax and take a front row seat at MK3D, recorded live at the BFI South bank in London. Enjoy. Right, on the subject of let's not make films that look like every other film. Here's a trailer for a movie which is currently playing in UK cinemas. Opened on Friday. And it doesn't look like other movies. That boat was lost or are we gonna try again? Who's gonna crew?
- [02:07]
Mark Jenkin
I'll be back in a couple of days. Three years. Luke was on that boat. Different place.
- [02:30]
Mark Kermode
See you soon, my darling. Only one thing worse than being a sheep, okay? Not being a se. Don't worry. She always comes back. Welcome home, boy. Good trip.
- [03:01]
George Mackay
Emily. Can't you see what's going on? She thinks you're someone else.
- [03:10]
Callum Turner
I am someone else. For now,
- [03:16]
George Mackay
we just go out there again and when we come back, it'll
- [03:19]
Mark Kermode
all be back to normal.
- [03:24]
George Mackay
What's your real name?
- [03:26]
Mark Kermode
Tis lost in the wind.
- [03:31]
George Mackay
Just want to get home.
- [03:46]
Mark Kermode
You remember. It's in cinemas now. I've been talking about it for a long time. It's absolutely fabulous. Please welcome to the show Mark Jenkin, George Mackay and Callum Turner.
- [04:17]
Mark Jenkin
Hello.
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Mark Kermode
Hello. Just wreck the table, Mark. Listen, congratulations. It's so fabulous that it's finally in cinemas. And the reviews have been absolutely spectacular. And I think it's a Wonderful piece of work. I'm going to start with you, Mark, obviously, because I read a review of it that said the journalist, I think, was very pleased with this pun. Mark Jenkin is still Jenking. So they're using your name as a verb. What did they mean by Mark Jenkin is still Jenking?
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Mark Jenkin
I don't know, but can I change to another review? I read a letterbox review.
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Mark Kermode
Why do people read letterbox reviews?
- [04:58]
Mark Jenkin
Because I hate myself. Yeah, it said. It said, david lynch has come back to life and decided to make his shittest film. And I apologize to the BFI for reading that out. The BFI distribution. But I did think. I read it to Mary in bed last night. Mary, my partner, who's also in the film. And she said, that's still quite good, isn't it? So I thought, yeah, I'm making Lynchian shit. So, yeah, but maybe. What's that a verb?
- [05:44]
Mark Kermode
Jenking. It is now, apparently your name is now. So Lynchian is a description, but now Jenking. And obviously, I mean, people know this, but the way that you shoot is that you shoot on a clockwork camera. You shoot completely silent, and then every single piece of the sound is then built afterwards. You've done that right back from Bronco's House, Bates, Ennis Main. And that is how you work. That is your process, isn't it?
- [06:10]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah.
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Mark Kermode
And there's no one else doing that at the moment, I don't think.
- [06:15]
Mark Jenkin
I don't know, to be honest. Okay, there isn't. Yeah, yeah, but. And it's funny because, you know, when you introduced it and said it's the, you know, nobody's making films that look like this. It's not until this part of the process that I realize that. Because when I'm making it, I'm just making it. And I think this looks, you know, it looks like other films that I've made. So I worry that it looks like everything else. So it's nice to hear that at least you think it doesn't. So. Because I want to do stuff, you know, it's not a conscious decision, but it's nice to do stuff that feels different because as an audience member, I like stuff that looks different.
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Mark Kermode
Callum, I was told that there was a meeting at some point in which somebody was talking about the genre of the film, and you said, he is the genre. What is it about working with Mark that's kind of unique?
- [07:06]
Callum Turner
I don't remember saying that. You know what I mean? He's a purist. Right. I'll tell you a Story about Mark, I wasn't there. He went in for an operation and I definitely wasn't there. He went in for an operation, they dose him up and he's going under. And he does the operation. He comes out, he's all good, and he's in this hazy state. And he went, film's not dead to the nurses. And I think that's.
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Mark Kermode
That's what you're.
- [07:37]
Mark Jenkin
Is that true? That's a true story. When I came around from the operation, I was in recovery and the anesthetist came down to see me to check I was all right. And a couple of people from when they'd given me the anesthetic came down to see if I was okay. And it turned out they don't normally do that, but they came down and anaesthetist said, yeah, we had to give you a little bit more anesthetic than was expected. And. And I said, why? And they said, well, you wouldn't stop talking. And I think it was anxiety, but I said, oh, God, what was I saying? And he said, you wanted everybody to come into the room because you wanted to explain it wasn't quite a film. It was before the operation. I wanted everybody to know that it wasn't. That film was better than digital. It was just different. And it was important that both were allowed to exist.
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Callum Turner
So there you go. I mean, that's Jenkin. That's Jenkin, right?
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Mark Kermode
How different from an actor's point of view, how different is that to the usual wave? Every director as kind of quirky and individual.
- [08:39]
Callum Turner
Definitely. I mean, we talked. Every director is individual. But we talked about at the beginning, I think I asked you, actually, is it going to change your process? Because Mark works with the Bolex and we get 27 seconds per row and he has to wind it back up, which is good use for thinking time,
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Mark Jenkin
because if we want to sometimes wind it slowly so it's a bit more.
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Callum Turner
The slower he's going, the more he's thinking, oh, shit, how do I tell him that that was crap? But I was the one that asked you, and actually you said to me, nice. I said, is it going to interrupt your process? Are you going to approach this differently? And you said, no, which was good note for me. I was nervous about it, in a sense, not nervous, because I was excited to work with Mark and what a gift that is for me. But there is a different way of doing things and there's only two takes you get, and, you know, so you're jumping into his world and his community. And you know that because you've been down there. There's like a whole bunch of people that. We're the. We're the strangers to this, to this journey.
- [09:41]
Mark Kermode
George, what was it like from your point of view? Because it was. There is a strange thing about stuff, stepping into a very different world. Mark and I live quite close to each other. Obviously I'm a late arrival there, but it is stepping into another stalker.
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Mark Jenkin
Stalker, yeah, that's right.
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Callum Turner
By the way, every time we walk past your house, he says, mark,
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Mark Jenkin
just so you know, just.
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Mark Kermode
Just so you know.
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Callum Turner
And I go, I know.
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Mark Kermode
Just so you know, I'm in a film field, right, with my phone, and I get a picture outside our house of him, you and Dua Lipa. And he says, you're not in.
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Mark Jenkin
I was trying to impress them and you let me down. You weren't there.
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Mark Kermode
And my kids were going, dad. I went, it's so much cooler that we weren't in.
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Callum Turner
It actually was. It actually was.
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Mark Kermode
George, what's it like stepping into the. That world?
- [10:38]
George Mackay
Oh, it's magic. It's magic. I mean, like, as. Just as sort of people coming in with, like, Callum. I used to joke that we're kind of like the new boyfriends at the wedding, coming into the family and. And it was just like, you know, the community and the crew that we were stepping into, that was. That was the main thing. And then in terms of, like, the way that we worked, as Cal said, it doesn't really change too much. But I think if it was, if. If the way that Mark worked with the kind of the limitations that come with the mechanisms of the camera, like, if that happened on a quote unquote, sort of regular film, that would feel different, but because it was laid out from the very first meeting, when we even sort of the kind of meeting that was our essential audition, it was like, this is how I work. This is the parameters of the camera and this is how it's going to be done. So once you know that and the stool set, then you're grand.
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Mark Kermode
Obviously, the thing that we understand from the trailer is that a boat that has disappeared comes back, you two crew it. It then goes back to the period that it disappeared from. I've asked Mark this a lot of times, so I won't ask you again, but for you two, what is the film actually about?
- [11:48]
Callum Turner
No idea.
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George Mackay
No, we're sworn to secrecy.
- [11:52]
Callum Turner
We've asked him some. George and I would come in once a week with the theory. Mark, Mark, we think we've got it and we'd lay it out and he'd go, maybe. I mean, that was the same thing you said last week. So you're going to give us.
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Mark Jenkin
But you actually said that Toby got it.
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Callum Turner
So. Toby. Hey, Toby over there.
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George Mackay
The oracle.
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Callum Turner
Yeah, him and Mark and Mary are probably the only ones.
- [12:15]
Mark Jenkin
But it's not like it's a secret that, you know, that I want people.
- [12:18]
Callum Turner
I like that we don't know.
- [12:19]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah, yeah. It's not like, oh, you haven't worked out what it's about.
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George Mackay
It's whatever.
- [12:24]
Mark Jenkin
It's. You know, it's. There's, there's. There's lots of themes within the film that people pick up on. And all the reviews I read and a lot of. Most of some of the letterbox reviews I read, so, you know, people get it. And I think, yeah, that is, you know, and sometimes the things I hadn't thought about and I thought, yeah, of course it's that. And of course it's that. So it's not like a sort of winning number or anything. It's just like I. And I never realized when I was editing this film, I started thinking, whenever I'm editing, I want to be writing the next thing. So I started thinking, oh, I want to write a film about this subject and this theme. And I started thinking about it. And while I was editing, I said, I want to stop editing this one and start writing this other thing because I want to make a film about this. And then as I went on with the edit, I realized I'm already making the film that I thought I was making making. And actually they're all kind of, you know, my themes are all very similar. You know, I'm interested in.
- [13:21]
Callum Turner
The beautiful thing is that there are so many, and it's up to the audience member. You allow them to connect in their own personal way by not saying explicitly this is the. What it's about. This is. This is what I'm traveling down the road. I'm traveling down. They can choose affected in different ways.
- [13:37]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah, exactly. And I do think it all goes back to this. You know, we've got this thing in Cornwall which. Which is called Hira, which the Welsh have Hiraeth, which hasn't got an exact definition in English, but it. We always say it's like a search for home, but home can be. It could be your home, or it could be a person or a piece of an atmosphere or a feeling or a smell or anything. It's like this search for. For something. And I think all of my films are kind of about that. I think that kind of drives me. I think that's the sort of. The kind of, you know, the thing with. I think a lot of Cornish people are born nostalgic. And I think there's a. There's a bit of that there. And somebody said to me the other day, a critic who was interviewing me said, you know, I was explaining that, and they said, that sounds like a desire to return to the womb. And I was like, all right, chill out. And then. And then she said to me, you've got a character in the film who literally repeatedly says, home to mother. And I was like, oh, yeah, all right, maybe then.
- [14:47]
Mark Kermode
It's an interesting thing, though, because I've seen it a few times now. Seen it projected. If you see it in the cinema, make sure they turn up the sound, because the sound is a really sort of big deal of it. But the first time I saw it, I saw it at the Newlyn Film House, which is just down the way from. From us. And I was walking back and it's like a couple of miles or something. And, well, you know, exactly how long it is because you run that all the time. But it was. I was about halfway between Newlyn and Maozel before I realized something really, really kind of heartbreaking about it. And it was like this kind of delayed reaction that says, there is something really about the plot, but there is something that's only afterwards that you realize what's been sacrificed and what's been given up in order for the community to throw. And I think the thing that's really lovely about it is it works after the fact. It has to sit with you for a while. And I wonder what that's like with film festivals, when people go in and see a film and immediately come out and say, what's it like? Write your review now. It's like, no, see the film and then sit on those thoughts for at least a week before, you know, before you respond to them. Did you. Did you find it emotional? Because I think it's a really emotional story.
- [15:58]
George Mackay
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I. You find it emotional at different stages. Like the first time that, you know, I'm speaking for myself when I read the script before I very first met Mark, and the script is totally like, you know, obviously it kind of. It comes before the film, but in terms of the spirit nature of the writing works in the same way as the film. With that, you can then sort of project and interpret what it means to you. And. Yeah, and I, like, the first time I read it, I Found the whole thing very, very moving. And then when I, when we came to do it as well, there's elements of the character of Nick that I feel, you know, sort of privately very close to. And yeah, of course, yeah, it affects you sort of, but kind of at the least at times when you wouldn't expect it.
- [16:47]
Mark Kermode
One of the things that it is definitively about is just how brutal fishing is in terms of a profession. I mean, it's rough and tough stuff, isn't it? It's like, it's chains. It's. What was it like filming that stuff? Because there's virtually a shipwreck in the middle of it. This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com helping people worldwide, getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry.
- [17:14]
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Mark Kermode
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Mark Kermode
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- [18:07]
Callum Turner
Well, yeah, we had a guy called Lee who actually you used as your accent guy. Yeah, your North Star.
- [18:15]
George Mackay
My guy.
- [18:17]
Callum Turner
Lee the guy.
- [18:18]
George Mackay
Lee's the man.
- [18:21]
Callum Turner
You were like, quite excited to meet me.
- [18:22]
George Mackay
I was genuinely so starstruck when I met Lee. Mark sent me like a bunch of references for the voice. Sorry, jumping on them.
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Callum Turner
No.
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George Mackay
And there was like, there was this documentary that was made years back about lots of different fishermen in Cornwall. And Mark said, you know, there's a couple of people, this fellow particular. And I agreed. I was like, yeah, there's something about his voice. That's great. And then so I was watching Lee a lot and then Mark said, you know what? We're going to use Lee's boat. And I was like, you're kidding. We're going to use Lee's boat.
- [18:48]
Callum Turner
But that's what he was like.
- [18:49]
George Mackay
And I saw. And I saw him across the harbor, like Mully.
- [18:52]
Mark Jenkin
And I saw him there.
- [18:53]
Callum Turner
Wow.
- [18:53]
George Mackay
He's taller than I thought.
- [18:55]
Mark Kermode
Oh, my God.
- [18:57]
George Mackay
And he's sort of. And he was just sort of, you know, slightly sort of self conscious and.
- [19:00]
Callum Turner
And he, like.
- [19:01]
George Mackay
And he shook hands.
- [19:02]
Mark Jenkin
I was like, hell, it's Lee. It was brilliant. It was so much.
- [19:06]
Callum Turner
That's not an exaggeration, honestly.
- [19:09]
Mark Jenkin
It was all around the wrong way. It was brilliant.
- [19:12]
Callum Turner
Lee didn't give a. Lee just wanted actually to get his boat back out to make some more money.
- [19:16]
Mark Kermode
Yeah.
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Mark Jenkin
Lee treats everybody exactly the same. So he was all right, mate, but he was.
- [19:22]
Callum Turner
He was really. He was really. He got into it. I think, you know, someone coming from what Ali does is he gets up and he gets on his boat, crack a dawn goes out. He doesn't know if he's going to make any money. He fishes for 12 hours with a small crew and he comes back and he hopes the market is on his side that day and he can sell the fish to a good pound and then crack on with his life. And then all of a sudden we're here. We're like, schedules and people. All these people in his boat and one man film crew. But there was a gaffer and there's lots of people. It must have been quite surreal for him.
- [19:57]
Mark Jenkin
At the end of the shoot, when he came to the wrap party, he said to me, he turned up with a massive box of cakes. Yeah, fish cakes. And he went. And he said. He said, I can see. I can see how hard you all work, because what you just described then is filmmaking. You know, you go out and you try and do something, you come back and it's the vagaries of the market and whether you manage to capture anything when you. And he said to me, stick with it. He said, yeah, thanks, man. He said to me, he said, it's a lot like fishing. And I was like.
- [20:36]
Mark Kermode
And I thought, oh, great.
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Mark Jenkin
And he went. He went, it's nowhere near as hard. He was kind of saying, I got a bit of respect for you, but not. Not much, really. But it was like a major moment.
- [20:47]
Callum Turner
Yeah, it was a big. But he did. He got the bug, right?
- [20:51]
George Mackay
And he's in it. But to say, like, sort of how tough they are. He showed us this picture of his hand, right, that got caught in the winch and a section of his hand sort of exited his hand somehow. I said, lee, what happened? How'd you get back? And he went, pack of Pro plus and a Vimto.
- [21:09]
Mark Jenkin
It was the Vimto I.
- [21:16]
Mark Kermode
Fishing is the most. One of, if not the most dangerous profession. Right.
- [21:20]
Mark Jenkin
Most dangerous civilian job still. Yeah.
- [21:24]
Mark Kermode
Which is astonishing.
- [21:26]
Callum Turner
It's extraordinary what they do. I mean, really, they go out and they're like the last of the hunters, really. They go out and they see a thing on the radar and they go, let's go that way. And they hope there's not a French boat or an Irish boat, whatever, and they just go there as quickly as possible. One try and earn a living.
- [21:40]
Mark Kermode
Well, listen, I mean. Well, I think it's your best film. You know, I'm a huge fan anyway, but I think it's. I think it's the most emotionally accessible of your films. And I think it's got real. That kind of heartbreaking thing that I said that, you know, ends up on the thing. I think it has real universal appeal because of that. And. And it's all. It's always, you know, it's the difficult third album.
- [22:03]
George Mackay
It's.
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Film Clip Character
It.
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Mark Kermode
It's like, you know. Oh, yeah, you made Bake. Great. Well done. You made Endless Main. Right now. Do it again. But. Do it again, but. So I think the possibility of failing was huge.
- [22:12]
Mark Jenkin
That's next.
- [22:15]
Mark Kermode
I asked all of you to choose something that was inspirational. And I'm gonna start with you, George, because yours is sort of big and big and bright. What did you choose?
- [22:24]
Mark Jenkin
Mine?
- [22:25]
George Mackay
I was, like, watching everyone else's choices, like, oh, no, mine's, like, so fl. Lowery like, mine, honestly, like, I. Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet. I love that film. And I love John Leguizamo in it. I love John Leguizamo as an actor because I love anyone who takes big, big swings. And I remember seeing the sort of. The scene that comes at the beginning of it, and it was just, like, wild. It's so over the top. It's so over the top. And the colors and the guy with the pink hair and things being sped up, and then there's like this kind of John Leguizamo, and it's just so theatrical. So theatrical. And I love theatrical performances. And this one always stuck with me. And I think that's where my taste, sort of.
- [23:08]
Mark Kermode
And no director is more in love with theatrical than Baz Luhrmann. Let's take a look. Why did thou draw on among these heartless hinds? Turn thee, Benvolio, and look upon thy death. I do but keep the peace. Put up thy sword or manage it to part these men with me. Peace. Peace. I hate the Word as I hate hell all Montagues envy.
- [24:02]
Callum Turner
Bang.
- [24:12]
Mark Jenkin
It.
- [25:31]
Mark Kermode
I don't think I've ever seen anyone enjoy taking off a jacket more than that.
- [25:35]
George Mackay
It's just. I remember we did it in school afterwards, like when we studied Romeo and Juliet and then it's just a one line piece. I hate the word. I was like, that's it. It felt so small in sort of in comparison to like. It's just so much. There's so much of everything and I, I loved it.
- [25:51]
Mark Kermode
The really interesting thing is that Lohman says that when he, when he was first selling it to the studio and then he said, well, we're going to do the Shakespearean dialogue. They went, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. And then he gave them the script, they went, what's all this? He went, that's the Shakespearean dialogue. What you. You're going to have them talking. But it.
- [26:05]
George Mackay
I love that the studio would think, let's not do Shakespeare's dialogue.
- [26:11]
Mark Kermode
When Abel Ferrara made China Girl and at the end the deaths and you know, the studio were going, do they have to die?
- [26:20]
Mark Jenkin
It's Shakespeare.
- [26:21]
Mark Kermode
That's what happened. But the amazing thing is that it works, that it does work together with that incredibly sort of modern sensibility about it. And John Legnizomo is fantastic. What do you love about him?
- [26:31]
George Mackay
Again, it's big swings. It's like, it's like Daniel Day Lewis and There Will Be Blood. It's Stephen Graham and this is England. It's John Leguizamo and Moulin Rouge. It's when people take big, Big Sweat. Gary Oldman and Leon, like, you know when they throw something in there that's just like feel so real and like, you know, my mum always says, none so funny as folk. Like, I think we are all like. And in a way, in very different ways. The other footage that we've seen, it's all like the enormity of real life. And that's what cinema captures so beautifully. And this is a kind of, a lot more of a kind of surface level version. But as a kid when I saw it, I was like, wow. And it always stuck with me.
- [27:06]
Callum Turner
I actually had the same. Because we did that in like Year eight drama. And seeing that on the small.
- [27:13]
George Mackay
Yeah, the vhs, they wheel out.
- [27:16]
Callum Turner
And I remember it was the opening monologue, which is actually on a tv.
- [27:19]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:20]
Callum Turner
And two houses. And then at the end of the monologue they go, all right, great. Now let's talk about it. I was like, why?
- [27:29]
Mark Jenkin
Let's watch it.
- [27:31]
Callum Turner
I was really infuriated because we did it, like three or four times. So that. That movie is beautiful. So you studied that as well, right?
- [27:39]
George Mackay
Yeah, yeah, that. We watched that. We watched that. Yeah. And that came before I'd ever sort of. We did the play in school. I saw that first.
- [27:46]
Mark Kermode
Now, the clip that you've chosen, Callum, is pretty much the polar opposite of the exploding gas.
- [27:51]
Callum Turner
I'm having a slight nervous breakdown because I realized that the scene that I picked is actually maybe just a rotating camera around the room.
- [28:00]
Mark Jenkin
It is.
- [28:01]
Callum Turner
Okay, cool.
- [28:01]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. Do you want to tell us what it's from?
- [28:06]
Callum Turner
Yeah. It's from Five Easy Pieces, which is the Bob Raffleson movie that Jack Nicholson is in with Karen Black. And it's about this guy at the beginning. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but I'm gonna ruin it for you. Anyway, it's about this guy who's kind of rejected who he is and where he's from, and he's drifting for the first 45 to an hour, and he's called home because his dad's gonna die. And I wish I picked the scene with him and his dad, because that's a really beautiful scene. He wheels his dad out onto them.
- [28:34]
Mark Kermode
Although, to be honest with you, that's the scene that's always wheeled out. The scene that you've chosen isn't. And I thought, wow, what a really smart move to actually. To actually choose the scene in which the camera just looks around the room.
- [28:46]
Callum Turner
Now I'm panicking.
- [28:47]
Mark Kermode
Should we enjoy it?
- [28:48]
Callum Turner
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's catch it.
- [29:00]
Mark Kermode
Sa. See, I think. I think the reason that's a really smart choice and actually, particularly in the context of the show, is this relates to what we were talking to Lindsay about before. The story being told. It's filmmaking. It is. From a directorial point of view, that is a really bold thing to have done.
- [29:45]
Callum Turner
Yeah.
- [29:46]
Mark Kermode
And.
- [29:46]
Callum Turner
Well, I guess it just. I mean, this point in the. In the film, we realize that he's actually a brilliant pianist. And he's playing this piece to this girl who is his brother's girlfriend or wife. He's trying to sleep with her. And he plays this piece badly, he says after. And she emotes this pretense of being moved by the piece. And he plays this and that whole going around. You see their life and the history and everything and the fragility of family. And he comes back and. And then they just rip you out of that moment because he goes, you're full of shit. I played it badly. And look at you. You're crying. It's just genius.
- [30:26]
Mark Kermode
Because he played it better when he was 8.
- [30:27]
Callum Turner
Exactly.
- [30:28]
Mark Kermode
Yeah.
- [30:28]
Callum Turner
He wasn't even trying.
- [30:29]
Mark Kermode
And Nicholson in general, somebody that you look to and admire.
- [30:33]
Callum Turner
I think I've got like five foes, including the five easy Pieces poster in my house. So.
- [30:42]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, what is it, what is it about him?
- [30:45]
Callum Turner
The masculinity and the fragility at the same time and the joy in life that he can find and just. I love watching him. I love watching. He's never delivered a bad performance. I don't think about movies, but not.
- [31:01]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. And when you watch him, do you. Do you take inspiration from his performances, things that you watch him do and you think, oh, I can see, see that he's doing that. Or you're just completely soaked up by the performance.
- [31:15]
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- [32:50]
George Mackay
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- [32:57]
Callum Turner
I just love how daring he is. You know the scene that we talk about in this movie where he just opens himself up, you know, is he empties himself in front. He was so vulnerable. And then, you know, to contradict that. The. What's the one in the prison when he's with. Yeah. Cuckoo's Nest. And he's just, like. When he's talking about the game and then he plays the game out because, like, the joy in what he's doing, even if he's in the depths, even in the dungeons, he's still enjoying life somehow.
- [33:29]
Mark Kermode
There's really interesting stuff about the making of Five Easy Pieces about how the relationship and how much his character should or shouldn't emote. And they had profound disagreements about it. But it's one of those great things in which that tension seems to have come, created the best possible.
- [33:45]
Callum Turner
Well, they made a movie immediately after Together that wasn't as well received.
- [33:52]
Mark Kermode
Well, yeah, they worked together several times. But it is that. But that tension is, I think, is a really.
- [33:57]
Callum Turner
And he had that with Kubrick, too, the Shining.
- [34:01]
Mark Kermode
Because he was. Although Kubrick had that with everybody. I mean, he was. Yeah, I guess he was particularly horrible to Shelley Duval.
- [34:09]
Callum Turner
Yeah. I think she got the. The short end of the step on that one.
- [34:12]
Mark Kermode
But it's. I think it's a great choice. And thank you for choosing it, particularly, actually, in the context of the rest of the show, I thought was a really, really interesting scene to show. Mark.
- [34:21]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah.
- [34:21]
Mark Kermode
What did you choose?
- [34:23]
Mark Jenkin
Radio on Chris Pettit's 1979 masterpiece.
- [34:28]
Mark Kermode
Just for anyone who doesn't know. Who's Chris Pettit?
- [34:30]
Mark Jenkin
Chris Pettit. Well, he was a critic at Time out, then became a.
- [34:35]
Mark Kermode
Of part. Brilliant filmmaker.
- [34:36]
Mark Jenkin
It became Brilliant filmmaker. Yeah. And he.
- [34:37]
Mark Kermode
Demonstrating that it is possible. Yeah. Well done.
- [34:40]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah. He also said, one of my other favorite films of all time is Big Wednesday, which he described as the most important Hollywood film of the 1970s. And I never realized it was a 2. I never realized that was a Chris Pettit quote. I didn't think. I didn't realize it was the same person until not that long ago.
- [34:58]
Mark Kermode
So Radio 1 in America, if you have a road movie, somebody gets in a car in New York and they drive to California. Yeah. In the uk, if you have a road movie, he gets in a car in London and he drives to Bristol via Chippenham. So what is Radio one about? And this is not your film. So you were able to answer this question.
- [35:15]
Mark Jenkin
I'm not telling anybody what it's about. But what's. What's brilliant about? Well, I mean, it's about alienation, but that's a very vague term. But what's brilliant about it is. Yes, it's a road movie. Set between London and Bristol. And the Road movie element of it is over quite quick.
- [35:30]
Callum Turner
Very quick physical movie.
- [35:31]
Mark Kermode
It's a very short journey.
- [35:32]
Mark Jenkin
I mean, it's pre M4, but it's still quick. But what is brilliant about it is it addresses that issue of the Road movie is whatever you're sort of running from or you think you're running towards when you get there, and you either can't run any further from what you're running from or you can't, or whatever you're running to isn't there. You have to sort of face what's inside, which is the thing that's causing you to move. And it's got the most incredible ambiguous ending. I love films that when they finish, the film continues to play in your head.
- [36:09]
Mark Kermode
This is what I was saying about Rosa Nevada. I think that is the case with that.
- [36:12]
Mark Jenkin
Yeah. Well, that was my segue into getting people to come and see it. Great.
- [36:18]
Film Clip Character
Okay.
- [36:18]
Mark Jenkin
And just to find the end of my film. Because, yeah, you leave. I like films. You leave the theatre and you're not quite. You know, it's still playing in your head. You kind of provide the third act of the film. And sometimes, like Radio 1. I told this story in great detail last night, but the first time I ever went to see this film, I'd heard about it. There was a 35 mil print that had turned up and was being shown at the Cube in Bristol. And I traveled from Cornwall to Bristol to see this film. I sat there. As soon as it started, I was like, I don't know what this is. I've got no reference points. First, it's a British rogue movie and they don't really exist. And then I like the way it was portraying Britain. Even though it was 70s, you know, when I was very young, it seemed so alien and so sort of strange that I didn't. I just didn't know whether I liked it or not. And at the end, the craft work are playing over the end credits and the role is going, I think horizontally, which was weird as well. And then somebody in the cinema just went out loud. That is the shittest film I've ever seen. And I was like. I was sat there thinking they might be right, but also they might be really wrong because I didn't have any reference points. And then, you know, 2022, I was asked to submit my. The 10 greatest films for the sight and sound poll. 10 years after I'd seen it, 15 years after I'd seen it was the first thing I wrote down because it Just played this film. Plays in my head all the time. I was asked to find a clip from it. Did you watch? Yeah. And I switched it on and I just watched the whole film. I've been on tour with the film.
- [37:57]
George Mackay
I remember.
- [37:58]
Mark Jenkin
I don't know where I was, but I watched the whole film. Stood up in a hotel room with my laptop playing because I was gonna skip three it. And I just stood there for 102 minutes and watched the whole thing.
- [38:09]
Mark Kermode
Shall. Shall we watch the clip that you chose after that experience? Take a look. Is this your daughter?
- [38:18]
Film Clip Character
Yeah. She lives with her father, but they've gone away. I cannot find them. Her father was. Wants to keep her.
- [38:31]
Mark Kermode
Can he keep her legally?
- [38:32]
Mark Jenkin
Hmm.
- [38:33]
Mark Kermode
Does he have a court order to keep her?
- [38:38]
George Mackay
Doesn't matter.
- [38:44]
Film Clip Character
When you don't speak a language, it makes you so. So homesick. You go home, but your own languages, It's not always possible to understand.
- [39:07]
Mark Kermode
What's her name?
- [39:12]
Film Clip Character
Alice. She's nearly five. Tomorrow I go to west.
- [39:26]
Mark Kermode
You think she's there?
- [39:27]
Film Clip Character
Village. An aunt by her father lives there. Maybe she knows her father's English. No, he's German. He works in England. He's a businessman. His aunt come from Germany because of the war. How do you say?
- [39:49]
Mark Kermode
A refugee.
- [39:52]
Film Clip Character
Refugee.
- [40:02]
Mark Kermode
The landscape of it is like a science fiction film. It's like a kind of, you know, Tarkovsky. There's obviously a lot of vendors in there. But I confess that the reason I went to see Radio on the. When it came out was because there's a scene in it in which a guy goes into a cafe and they put Reckless Eric's Whole Wide World on the jukebox and listen to it.
- [40:18]
Callum Turner
Yeah.
- [40:18]
Mark Kermode
And. And that was enough to make it happen. There's the. There's the. You know, the Bowie Helden. So it was a weird thing for a movie that's that. Strange that it had a kind of pop cashier. But I mean, people, you know, it was a. It was a cult movie. And it. I think it. I think it's breathtaking.
- [40:35]
Mark Jenkin
I was in Bristol the other night and. And I was there with Gweno, who was hosting the screening I did at Watershed. And I took her to the hotel to show her the hotel. And it's just derelict, that area. Everything's been scat down. And the old hotel is there, and it's completely clad in scaffolding and tarpaulins, but you can kind of look inside. And I just don't think people. Well, yeah, I don't think people know that it's still there. And it just needs to be. Be preserved because that sort of, you know, like the Edward Hopper.
- [41:06]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:07]
Mark Jenkin
Composition of that shot from the. Because that was also like a temporary flyover that was built in Bristol. There's also really significant. But the hotel's there and it just needs to be. It needs to be preserved. I think they're just waiting for it to fall down because it's probably listed.
- [41:22]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, well, it's. I mean, I think. I think the film's. The film's really magnificent. I'm really glad that you chose it because I do think it's. It's a really fine piece of work. I'll say it again. I've said it before and, you know, I mean it. I think Rosa Nevada is your best film. And you know what? Huge fan I am. Anyway, congratulations to both of you because your performances are terrific and I just. There isn't anything like it out there in cinemas at the moment. I think you should all be incredibly proud of it and I wish you every success with it and I hope it gets the audience that it deserves because it's fantastic. As I said to everybody, there is a screening immediately after this show, 8:45.
- [42:00]
George Mackay
No pressure.
- [42:03]
Mark Kermode
And so, yeah, so it needs to be seen on the big screen. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
- [42:07]
Callum Turner
Thank you.
- [42:08]
Mark Kermode
Best of luck with the film. Thank you.
- [42:09]
George Mackay
Cheers.
- [42:11]
Mark Kermode
Thanks, mate. That's it for this week's edition of Kermit on film. The MK3D shows happen live every month at the BFI South bank in London. Tickets are available on the BFI website. For more conversations about film from me and Simon Mayo, head over to Kermode and Mayo's tape wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Keep watching the skies.
- [42:38]
Mark Jenkin
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [42:46]
Mark Kermode
Hello.
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Brooke Devard
Hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care journeys, wellness tips and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deep, deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for naked beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.
- [43:31]
Mark Kermode
Hello, this is Simon Mayo. And this is Mark kermode. He's the UK's best and most trusted film critic. He's a best selling writer, broadcaster and national treasure. Far too kind. Kermode and Mayo's Take has all the reviews you need and star guests such as Sir Ian McKellen.
- [43:47]
Callum Turner
Nice to be with you.
- [43:47]
Mark Kermode
Emma Stone. That sounds like something I would love to be a part of. Ewan McGregor. I'm very good.
- [43:52]
Callum Turner
How are you doing?
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Mark Kermode
Kate Blanchett. What was that word you used? Catty Wampus. Kerma de Mayo's Take. All the film you need, available wherever you get your podcasts.