← Kermode on Film
Kermode on Film
Ed Sayers on SUPER NATURE, and Sian Clifford on LADY
00:47:02
Mark Kermode Live in 3D at the BFI Southbank, recorded 13th July 2026 - Part 1
Loading summary
Transcript219 lines
- [00:00]
Commercial Announcer
Is your kid's birthday coming up? Don't stress the prep. The party Shop at Michael's is your one stop shop for every theme from Bluey to Rodeo. Transform your space into a birthday wonderland with dreamworthy tablescapes and decor starting at 99 cents. Plus get free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Whether you're crafting a one of a kind bash or grabbing the essentials, Michaels has everything to make their big day legendary. Shop now and order ahead for delivery or in store pickup. Michaels everything to celebrate. Anything
- [00:39]
Sian Clifford
must be done. There is an element of fun. You find the fun and snap. Did you know that the very first assembly of photographs in sequential order to
- [00:51]
Commercial Announcer
create a motion Picture was a 2
- [00:53]
Sian Clifford
second clip of a black man on horse?
- [00:56]
Mark Kermode
We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them here and we want them now.
- [01:03]
Sian Clifford
You really don't want me to play, huh? No, I do. Captain Howdy said no. Captain who?
- [01:11]
Mark Kermode
Hi, this is Mark Kermode. Thanks for downloading this Kermode on Film podcast. This episode is the first half of the July 2026 MK3D show recorded live at the BFI South bank in London. I talked to Ed Sayers, whose feature doc Super Nature is a love letter to nature created on Super 8 film by people around the globe. Ed and I talked to the brilliant Sian Clifford. You may know her as Fleabag's sister and she now has a starring role in a new mock doc Lady. So sit back, relax and take a front row seat at MK3D recorded live at the BFI Southbank in London. Enjoy. Welcome to MK3D. We have got an absolutely packed show for you tonight and there is, there is something for everyone. There is cinema, artistry, there is stuff you won't have seen before. There is Super 8 film and there is a certain degree of madness since the last time I saw. I don't know whether any of you followed this, so since the last time I saw you, I did two things. Firstly, I was in Croatia. I had to go to Croatia for a film. I had to go to Croatia. I went to Croatia for a film festival. I flew klm. I just want to. Just want to say thanks. KLM on the way out there, changed in Amsterdam. They lost my bags. That was great. So all the time we were there, didn't have the bags. They got them back the day before we left, we left, we came back. They lost the bags on the way back. And it then took them, took them 10 days. And that was fine and so well done. Apparently the world's Most reliable airline. Anyway, since then, I went to Bavaria, okay? Because the Dodgers play. You remember, we did this last year, so we play live accompaniment to silent film. So last year we did City Girl, the FW Murnau film. This year we did Beggars of Life, the Bill Wellman film with Louise Louise Brooks and Wallace Beery. This is us on stage. This is the largest and most modern opera auditorium in the whole of Austria. The festival is in Bavaria, but the hall is across the river in Austria. And so when we did the first gig, I said, I've never played a gig in Bavaria before. They said, you still haven't played a gig in Bavaria. You're not in Bavaria, you're in Austria. So the Dodge brothers are going to be playing the Latitude Festival on the Friday. No. Yes, the Friday of Latitude. And I bring this up because also, the Kermoden film podcast with me and Jack Howard is coming to Latitude. Are any of you coming to the Latitude Festival? Oh, fab. Brilliant. Well, I know you are. You're my agent. You're, like, literally producing the show. Is there anyone who doesn't work with me? Who's coming? Fabulous. So we're on it. We're on the Listening Post in some glamorous. Usually they put us on it like, Sunday afternoon at, like, 2:00', clock, but this year we're on at some quite respectable time in the evening in the Listening Post. So please, please come along. There's no important bands playing or anything like that. There's nothing else happening. Everything else stops. So we're going to be doing that and we'll be recording a show. We have no idea what we're going to be talking about. One of the things that we've just talked about in the new podcast is the Odyssey. Now, here's the thing. I'm reviewing the Odyssey on Comedome on Friday. I saw it at the premiere at the BFI IMAX on, well, last week. And I came out of it and somebody said to me, what did you think of it? I said two words, Samantha Morton. Samantha Morton is absolutely astonishing. And she's in the film for about 20 minutes, 17 minutes, maybe. And those 1720 minutes are just some of the best cinema I've ever seen. And then it turns out I'm not alone in thinking this, because this is an interview with Chris Nolan, who said that Samantha Morton is absolutely the heart of the film. And he said after one of her takes, the crew gave her a round of applause. I was talking with Emma's both afterwards and remember the Last time that happened was with Heath Ledger on the Dark Knight. And I had a conversation with Samantha Morton and I said, it's astonishing. If you don't win an Oscar, I'll eat my hat. Anyway, I'd be very interested to know what people think of the Odyssey, because there's a lot to say about it, but Samantha Morton in it is just absolutely astonishing. Apparently, the queue to buy tickets for the imax, the BFI imax, it's like sold out forever and ever and ever. But the one thing I would say, please do try and see it in imax, because you need to see it on the biggest screen possible. And finally, before we get to our first guest, there is a BFI season celebrating the work of John Woo. I'm going to show you a trailer of the reissue of Hard Boiled. I'm going to show this for two reasons. Firstly, to publicize the BFI season, but secondly, because it's a trailer with lots and lots of bang, bang, shooty, shooty. So have a look. I mean, come on. That really is like one of those things when you go, yep, fine, I'll just have that. So make sure you check out the season. Right here is a trailer for a film which is opening on September 4, which is a really, really remarkable film, capturing the wonders of the World on Super 8. Take a look at this.
- [06:36]
Commercial Announcer
It's like it resets something in your brain. You feel part of things again.
- [06:44]
Ed Sayers
It's not about the filming, it's about changing your state. It was like these old cameras were compelling us to record.
- [07:05]
Commercial Announcer
It feels like listening to your deepest thoughts.
- [07:12]
Ed Sayers
As creatures great and small, we supposed to be helping each other.
- [07:33]
Mark Kermode
It's a wonderful film. It's in cinema. September 4th. Please welcome Ed Sayers. Ed, congratulations. It's really interesting because as we're having this conversation over in the BFI imax, Mark Jenkins is presenting his latest film, which is a shot on clockwork cameras on the IMAX screen. Explain to us what it is about. And you gave me this as a kind of explain to me what it is about Super 8 and the physicality of it that really speaks to you. Because one of the things that that film says is you see the world properly. It's not looking at it, it's seeing it. Explain to me what that means.
- [08:17]
Ed Sayers
Well, I think it's two things. One is actually when you're filming in nature on a medium that's 50 years old, on cameras that break and cartridges that run out every couple of minutes, it forces you to be very in the Moment you're not looking at your subject, the environment, or a snail and macro off a screen, you're looking through vintage glass right at it. And it really sort of connects you. So I think the actual process of recording in that way has a massive difference. And the 40 filmmakers that were engaged in making the film, many of them had never used Super 8 before. So we'd send them a camera and I'd teach them over zoom, how to use it, because we made the whole film with as little travel as possible. So they got smitten as well. They wanted to keep the cameras and we didn't let them. Well, some of them did, but some are still in various pockets of the world. We may never get them back. But then, of course, when you see it, as you saw in the trailer, you know, you've got the. I must say, it's not projected on Super 8. No, no, you wouldn't get the picture
- [09:18]
Mark Kermode
very big unless you did it in your front room.
- [09:19]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, well, ex.
- [09:20]
Mark Kermode
Small audiences.
- [09:21]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, get the BFI, IMAX, come queue up in my front room. 500 people. No, but. So it's projected digitally like it was then. And it's really like that grain structure of the Super 8 is therefore, you know, bigger than you've ever seen it before. But it's lovingly. It's not like it falls apart, it's just lovingly reproduced larger. And for me, what it does is it's. And obviously I've had a lot of time to think about this while making the film for five years and editing it is. It sort of. It engages your brain in a different way. And I mean, the simplest way of putting it is. To me, I think it's like looking at an impressionist painting. Your mind has to sort of make up and interpolate the image because it's not just given to you really crisply. And therefore, I think your brain leans in more and then your heart starts to get going and everything, because it's basically like a family movie medium. So you think of it as a memory.
- [10:10]
Mark Kermode
I think the thing that's remarkable, the memory thing, I think is absolutely right. I think the thing that's remarkable about it is we've all kind of slightly got used to the idea of really high quality digital nature footage. What we haven't got used to is the idea of, let's have another clip. Let's see a clip from the view. And one of the things this demonstrates is just the kind of the scope of stuff that you're capturing. So when you put the Word. How did you get the filmmakers? What did you. You said, I'm going to do this project. Get in touch if you're interested. Because I just imagined that all the filmmakers had used Super 8 before. I didn't realize that some of them were completely new to us.
- [10:42]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [10:43]
Ed Sayers
So I started a Super 8 filmmaking competition.
- [10:45]
Mark Kermode
Straight 8.
- [10:46]
Ed Sayers
Called Straight 8.
- [10:47]
Mark Kermode
Which is a terrific thing.
- [10:48]
Ed Sayers
Right.
- [10:48]
Sian Clifford
Thank you.
- [10:49]
Mark Kermode
And this is. This is no editing. This is just shooting camera.
- [10:51]
Ed Sayers
Yeah. One roll of film, 50ft of celluloid. It's the same emulsion that Christopher Nolan is using at 65 millimeter width as it's exactly the same stuff that Kodak make. It's just 8 millimeters wide, not 65 millimeters wide. So it's a really great way to try and make some cinema on celluloid. And that the discipline for that competition is. Yes. Editing camera. And the first time you see your piece of work is with an audience like in here and in the imax. Anyway. So I have it.
- [11:18]
Mark Kermode
That's just terrifying because it would just. It'll just be the picture of the inside of your pocket or the. Because you haven't taken the lens cap.
- [11:24]
Ed Sayers
A great shot of the inside.
- [11:24]
Mark Kermode
Exactly. Yeah.
- [11:27]
Ed Sayers
So that means. Because I started that in like. Like a thousand Years ago, in 1999, I know a lot of people around the world that like shooting Super 8 and know how to do it. So the project grew in many ways. And it also grew in terms of the people that were involved, because I knew some people to ask if they were crazy enough as me to go out and try and film some nature on Super 8. So we started off with a teaser where a friend in California and a friend in India and myself all went out locally. I went to Norfolk. One filmed water buffalo in Mumbai and one chased desert quails around in Joshua Tree to little effect. And that gave me a teaser. I cut off four minutes.
- [12:05]
Mark Kermode
The desert quail seems a little effect because as soon as you start the camera going, it makes a noise and they run away.
- [12:09]
Ed Sayers
Exactly. So we got lots of shots of them disappearing, you know, and bushes.
- [12:13]
Mark Kermode
Really funny.
- [12:13]
Ed Sayers
And we sort of include that in the film to sort of in the. In the setup, sort of show how hard it is, because otherwise you don't really appreciate really hard. And so it started with that community and the Straight eight community, globally and all over, on every continent, there are people I know. But then gradually, as the project grew, BFI, Dr. Society came on board. Screen Scotland came on board. We were able to bring on a casting producer and Then we started going like, well, wouldn't it be nice to have a sort of Masai filming, maybe lions? And like, two days later, she'd found someone that could do it, and the cameras were on their way. And then, you know, we wanted to have some indigenous voices in there. And the whole idea was that everyone got to have their voice in there in whatever dialect and whatever accent. And therefore, you're. You're sort of being taken to the places that are close to people's hearts by those people, rather than a crew going out there in some voice.
- [13:03]
Mark Kermode
Let's take a look. This is just a tiny little fragment of the film, but I honestly, the whole film is full of this kind of magical wonderment. So have a look at this.
- [13:41]
Sian Clifford
Being scared of monkeys, I'm a little
- [13:43]
Commercial Announcer
nervous,
- [13:50]
Sian Clifford
But I feel like it's just about understanding them as a inhabitant of the city. That fear goes away because once you observe them, there's not so much to be threatened about.
- [14:26]
Mark Kermode
Did you find it therapeutic? I mean, were you dealing with personal stuff when you started doing this project?
- [14:31]
Ed Sayers
Well, you're always dealing with personal stuff.
- [14:33]
Mark Kermode
Sure. But.
- [14:36]
Ed Sayers
Well, yeah, I mean, what I would say is that it's become a journey. I mean, it sounds pretentious to say it cold, like, quickly, and it's, listen,
- [14:45]
Mark Kermode
you're on this show. Listen, Home of Film. It's all pretentious.
- [14:49]
Ed Sayers
I would hesitate to say it, but it's almost been a bit of a spiritual journey in as much as it started off with me just having a hunch that Super 8 was a really interesting way to look at nature. And five years later, so many incredible people I've met through doing it or not met, you know, just met over Zoom, who are amazing environmental storytellers who've shown me the world and taught me more about the world. Me having personal encounters like that one with the snail, it's like a mega. A mega thing when you're lying on the floor with a macro lens. And I didn't know snails had eyes. Can anyone honestly say. Can everyone honestly say they knew that already? And I was the only person that didn't know, because I didn't know. And I thought I'd seen it, but I was so busy trying to keep. Keep this very specific distance to keep it in focus on this particular macro lens that I wasn't. I couldn't even really look properly. I was just like, is that 15.7 cm from the film plane? Probably. And I'll move it a bit, and then some will be in focus and Somewhere. But I was pretty sure I'd seen these eyes. And when it came back from the lab, there they were. And I was like, wow. And since then, I've not been able to harm a snail. I'm literally saying to people, like in the kids and stuff, careful, there's a. Literally last night I said, there's a slug there. Don't walk on it. When you come up the corner garden. Well, because, you know, like the Thai guys, lads, if you see nature, you care more about it, but if you
- [16:04]
Mark Kermode
really see it, you see, I think it's. I think there's something fascinatingly magical about the. The physical process. And I know, you know, as I said, Mark Jenkins showing Rose of Nevada. And Mark said that somebody said to him, you know, well, why do you make the films like this? Couldn't you make, you know, because he does everything with clockwork cameras, you know, Singer and then he post sinks them. He said, the process is the point. He said, I couldn't. I don't know how to make it any other way. If you gave me an efficient digital, I wouldn't know what to do with it. I mean, it's not that he hasn't worked with him, he did in the past, but he re found his love of cinema through rediscovering Sonny Lloyd. And he said that the process is the point. And it seems to me that that's true of your film as well.
- [16:44]
Ed Sayers
I love the. I love the unpredictability of the footage of the cameras. We used about 80 different cameras. Some that could go underwater, some that could do slow mo, some that could do macro. And we always sent people two or three, made sure they had two or three cameras. But things went wrong. We got whole rolls that were just black. I would sit there in my edit suite and I would mark them up for the good bits of sparkle and flashes and scratches. Just a black roll. I was quite excited about that. Sorry.
- [17:09]
Mark Kermode
I know, but the imperfections are exciting, aren't they? There is something really kind of, where does that line come from? Where does that scratch come from? What's that particular flash?
- [17:19]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, but for me, it's not. For me, with this process of making this film this way. And I think it's really important to mention this was the autonomy that we granted all the other filmmakers was another layer of surprise. So it wasn't like, you know, we sent them a storyboard and said, can you shoot that for us? Quite the opposite. And we worked with, you know, indigenous people in Europe and also in the Amazon jungle. We Taught them how to film themselves on the cameras because we didn't want to do it sort of extractively with our gaze on them. So one of my favorite behind the scenes shots of the whole film is Rodolfo, who was a filmmaker that I'd been tipped off about in Brazil. He was a DoP, but a really un egotistical DoP who knew his way around an analog camera. Was up for going into the jungle, five days with a producer, not really to shoot himself, but to teach the tribe how to film.
- [18:05]
Mark Kermode
Right.
- [18:06]
Ed Sayers
So, and then I would ask everyone, and my favorite shot is him sort of standing next to this tribesman who's got a Super 8 camera. And he's sort of. He's going like that to him, you know, you can tell he's trying to explain it to him. And you know, and then I would ask everyone to give audio recordings, just like little audio diary sort of things whenever they felt like it. And so for me, what was really interesting was that lack of control as well. Because when I got all the footage in and all the sound in, that was the time to make it into a story. And that was actually the hardest bit is how to make it not like a collection of short films, but how to make it into one story, which
- [18:41]
Mark Kermode
I think you managed to do really well. I mean, it's very uplifting. I mean, there are things in it that are very pointed with stuff from war zones. There's stuff where terrible tragedy is happening. But I think the film itself is genuinely uplifting and life affirming. And it does feel organic. It feels like it's actually got a physical soul to it. And I really hope it does well in. I want people to see it in cinemas. That's the other thing is it is a theatrical experience, you know, you need to see it projected. So that's. Yeah. Well, I wish you every success with it. I asked you to, to pick an inspirational film. What did you pick?
- [19:16]
Ed Sayers
I picked a scene from the Long Goodbye.
- [19:19]
Mark Kermode
Okay, now I am going to allow you to explain why you picked this scene from the Long Goodbye.
- [19:23]
Ed Sayers
Okay. Well, the Long Goodbye is an amazing film directed by Robert Altman is just such a master and he, he has this amazing way of making filmmaking seem intuitive and inviting chance in. And you know, when I've seen him talk on stage, when he was still alive. And I really went away from that screening thinking, God, it makes you want to shoot more and do it in this sort of free way and invite chance, which is obviously, as I've been saying is one of my favorite things to do and then figure it out later. But he. So in this scene, apparently, you know, they Wait. It's the bit in the Long Goodbye when they've gone down to Mexico and legend has it, they just. There was some. What do I say?
- [20:02]
Mark Kermode
What?
- [20:03]
Ed Sayers
They swung the camera onto what we're about to watch.
- [20:05]
Mark Kermode
Yes.
- [20:05]
Ed Sayers
And it was just happening. And of course, you don't just put that in the film because it was cool and it happened. You only put it in if it serves the story. But what I think is really fun is it's the famous scene everybody knows from the Long Goodbye, even if you've not seen it, is the cat scene at the beginning, which is obviously very scripted and very carefully done and is great. But this is quite the opposite.
- [20:21]
Mark Kermode
It is. Okay, let's have a look.
- [20:45]
Commercial Announcer
It.
- [21:11]
Sian Clifford
Sam,
- [21:57]
Mark Kermode
The thing about. Happens. I mean, people talk about Altman a lot and happens lots. And, you know, Altman sort of famously saying, we don't even have a script. Of course, scripts. It seems to me that in order to be able to take advantage of chance, you have to be fairly well organized. You can't just let chaos reign. You have to have everything in place in order for that sort of stuff to happen. Right?
- [22:16]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, I think that's right. And that's what we always say about the Straight Eight competition. It's like, plan the hell out of it and be prepared to totally reinvent as you go along.
- [22:25]
Mark Kermode
You're editing a camera and what are you doing now? What's next? Because obviously, Supernatural has been really, really well received. And I really look forward to that theatrical release here. But, I mean, the responses to it are terrific. So where do you go from here?
- [22:36]
Ed Sayers
Well, in my head, I'm working on something. I actually opened Final Draft the other day, but I'm not quite ready to actually type. But I'm. Handwriting.
- [22:45]
Mark Kermode
Okay.
- [22:46]
Ed Sayers
And I.
- [22:46]
Mark Kermode
Is that a. Is that another physical thing you always.
- [22:49]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, I think. Well, I don't always. I don't always, but it's something I'm. I'm leaning into more and more. I mean, there was a brief conversation about AI earlier, and we won't go there now, I'm sure, But.
- [22:57]
Mark Kermode
No, we'll revisit it later in the show.
- [22:58]
Ed Sayers
I want to double down on. On all this. So I think I'm working on a film that would be narrative this time, and it would suit itself. It would lend itself well to 16 millimeter and some interesting sort of things that I've been trying out. But the story is more about Me exploring this deep connection to nature that we know we've got inside us, but are we really able to still reawaken it? So I kind of want it to have the freedom of fiction to explore this further because basically that's what making Supernature for five years has made me think about a lot. It's like we are nature. It's actually fact. We've got more, you know, we have more bacteria and cells on us, on us and in us by the time we're adults that are non human than we have human. No, apparently.
- [23:45]
Mark Kermode
Really?
- [23:46]
Ed Sayers
So when we say we are nature, we kind of are, because we're kind of walking around. We say we're human, but are we really?
- [23:50]
Mark Kermode
Wow.
- [23:51]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Mark Kermode
We should bath more often. And so you are now firmly wedded to film. For me. You talk about making it 16 mil. I mean, that's for you, the process is the story as well.
- [24:02]
Ed Sayers
I'll say this here because then I've said it, but I'm figuring, you know, it's taken me all this time to make my first feature length film, do the second one on 16, third one on 35, fourth one on 65. That would be. It can't be that hard. I mean, surely the hardest one is the Super 8 one.
- [24:18]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, yeah. And other than Altman, who are your sort of guiding lights? Who are the people that you look toward?
- [24:23]
Ed Sayers
God, I was hoping you wouldn't ask me a question like that because you put me right on the spot. Can I just say, the best film I've seen recently?
- [24:31]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, absolutely.
- [24:33]
Ed Sayers
Instead, I finally saw Sentimental Value just a couple of weeks ago.
- [24:37]
Mark Kermode
Isn't it wonderful? It's absolutely. It's fantastic, isn't it?
- [24:40]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, really incredible. I can't believe I waited so long to see it.
- [24:43]
Mark Kermode
Shall I tell you my Joachim Trier story? Yeah, I'll be very quick. So Joachim Trim was. He was on the show a couple of months ago and. And he walked into the. I love his films. And he walked into the thing and I said, I'm so pleased to meet you. He said, I have met you before. And I said, when? He said you used to present a short film strand on Channel 4 called Shooting Gallery. Which is true. It was in a previous century and I looked very different. But he said, and you presented my film and then you interviewed me about it and you said, what are you going to do next? And I said, I'm going to be a feature filmmaker and one day I'm going to come on a show you're going to. To do and Talk about my feature films. And now he's Joachim Trier. So I have taken full credit for his career. Thank you very much. You're welcome.
- [25:21]
Ed Sayers
Do you take credit for mine?
- [25:24]
Mark Kermode
I've already done that.
- [25:25]
Ed Sayers
Three more films to talk about.
- [25:26]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. So listen, but come back. So come back on with the 65, with 16. Come back on with the 35. Come back on with the. With the 70 and then the IMAX. Yeah, fine.
- [25:34]
Ed Sayers
We can change the order. I don't mind.
- [25:35]
Mark Kermode
It'll be fabulous. And people can see Supernature. When?
- [25:38]
Ed Sayers
September 4, across the country thanks to BFI distribution and then other countries to follow.
- [25:44]
Mark Kermode
And you're doing Q&As and things.
- [25:46]
Ed Sayers
We are from mid August. We're working our way down the. I'm going to say another thing that I'm going to regret. We're working our way down the country from mid August from Scotland quite sequentially. I'm not going to kind of go home and go back all the way around and up to the Imax on the 4th talking about. And now I've said it out loud about bike packing, as much of it as possible.
- [26:03]
Mark Kermode
Wow.
- [26:04]
Ed Sayers
But I don't have the right bike and I don't have any bags. So if anyone wants to help me out.
- [26:08]
Mark Kermode
Okay. We will be keeping tabs on you. Thank you so much and good luck with the film.
- [26:12]
Commercial Announcer
Thank you. Is your kid's birthday coming up? Don't stress the prep. The party shop at Michael's is your one stop shop for every theme from Bluey to Rodeo. Transform your space into a birthday wonderland with dreamworthy tablescapes and decor. Starting at $0.99 plus get free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Whether you're crafting a one of a kind bash or grabbing the essentials, Michaels has everything to make their big day legendary. Shop now and order ahead for delivery or in store pickup. Michaels everything to celebrate anything. This year's girls trip to Telluride was the best. We one upped ourselves with my Sapphire Preferred card. And with 5 times points on Chase Travel plus 3 times points on vacation homes with top brands, we got this incredible cabin. It was a mansion. And with three times the points on dining. We ordered a Wagyu steak dinner and that pistachio gelato was too good. So where should we go next year?
- [27:20]
Sian Clifford
I've got ideas.
- [27:21]
Commercial Announcer
Chase Sapphire preferred the card that's preferred for a reason. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [27:36]
Mark Kermode
Okay. Sticking with coming attractions opening on the 14th of August and this is a massive gear change from where we've just been. Take a look at this trailer.
- [27:45]
Sian Clifford
I'm Lady Isabella. Welcome to Ravenhide Hall. Everyone's saying I'm the aristocracy's answer to the Kardashians. Hat I did do a bit of teen modeling. I have so many friends, I'm gonna lie. Sam's here with his crew. I'm directing the film.
- [28:04]
Mark Kermode
Boo.
- [28:05]
Sian Clifford
Jesus. Placed. Action. Action. It's better when we do it together. Filming me as I embark on a journey of artistic discovery. Who is Lady Isabella? Why did you pick me? No, you look so pretty. Come on, guys. But if you leave, then who's going to film all of this? You just lock the door. That's really creepy. Isabella, what's happened to your dad? I can see through my hand. This is happening to me for a reason. I've been living a shallow, meaningless existence. I am not leaving this house. I deserve to disappear. You're floating. Oh, big ditch.
- [29:03]
Commercial Announcer
Whoa.
- [29:11]
Sian Clifford
I could adopt you. Adopt me? I'm 30. Like all great artists, I've turned my suffering into spectacle.
- [29:35]
Mark Kermode
It really is as mad as it looks. Please welcome the star of Lady, Sean Clifford. That film is nuts. Right? So there's many things going on in the film, okay? One of them is the mock documentary about this particular character. And then the other one is this whole weird story about this character is literally, not metaphorically, literally starting to disappear, starting with her hands. What did it look like on the page? Tell me how it was painted. I mean, it's. It is genuinely anarchically bonkers.
- [30:18]
Sian Clifford
It's. I mean, it was on the page. And that was why I immediately said yes, because it was so mad and so unusual. And mockumentary is a genre that I adore and was desperate to make something in that genre and have that freedom. And. And, yeah, it felt like mad, and it felt like a world away from anything that I'd gotten to play at that point.
- [30:51]
Mark Kermode
What reference points were used when the project was being described to you? Because people must say, it's a bit like. But what is it a bit like?
- [30:59]
Sian Clifford
Well, God, our director's here. Sam, what's it a bit like?
- [31:04]
Mark Kermode
Sam, what did you say?
- [31:07]
Sian Clifford
Where are you? Where is he? I mean, they sent me.
- [31:13]
Mark Kermode
You said what? I didn't say Grey Gardens.
- [31:15]
Ed Sayers
But you said Grey Gardens. Did I?
- [31:17]
Mark Kermode
He didn't say Grey Gardens. But you said Grey Gardens.
- [31:21]
Sian Clifford
He did mention to me, Daphne Guinness, and I. So I dove into that, and I was like, oh, okay. And, yes, Grey Gardens was talked about. Larry Sanders show. You mentioned to me, Sam, I'm sorry to mention. Television on a film podcast.
- [31:41]
Mark Kermode
No, no, no, no. We're very happy with that. In fact, we have a television clip coming up in a little bit.
- [31:45]
Sian Clifford
Well, the US Office and Parks and Recreation are two of the greatest TV shows ever made, let alone comedy, in my opinion. And I watched them religiously. And so it really appealed to me that. And then, I don't know, it just. It was all there on the page. I mean, there was a lot of improvising. Sam, let me go. Go nuts.
- [32:06]
Mark Kermode
It's kind of interesting that in order for mockumentaries to work, there's two things have to happen. One of them is that they have to be rigorously planned. This is kind of relates to something we were just talking about. And the other is it has to give the impression that you are making it up on the spot. I'm gonna show a clip. This is a slight crossover with the trailer at the beginning, which I think illustrates this, because watching it, you get the impression that this is all just being done completely on the fly, which, of course, is the great illusion. Okay, so let's have a look.
- [32:31]
Sian Clifford
Well, I'm Lady Isabella. Welcome to Ravenhide Hall.
- [32:37]
Commercial Announcer
Come on in.
- [32:37]
Sian Clifford
Come and see where the magic happens. Good journey? Yeah, it was fine, thank you. This is amazing. Oh, yeah. We're big animal lovers here. I can see. Very impressive.
- [32:51]
Commercial Announcer
Thank you.
- [32:53]
Sian Clifford
You must be pinching yourself, getting to make something like this for Netflix. Yeah. What can I get this plucky young talent to drink? Oh, water's fine. Good God. Only been here two minutes, Freddie. You can't take your eyes off me. Hope you're getting this. Mr. Cameraman, what you are witnessing is what we fondly refer to at school as chem, short for chemistry. Can I show you my tiny room, my den of iniquity? Don't subject me to that.
- [33:23]
Mark Kermode
Okay, so how much of that is on the page? How much of that is in the moment? Well, how. You know, because. And it. That tone, that sort of sense of anxious laughter, the kind of uncomfortable. You don't know whether to laugh or scream is all the way through the film.
- [33:37]
Sian Clifford
Yeah. And I think there's a great moment. It happens just before this, where. Because we pretty much shot it in sequence, which was really, really helpful to the process. But there's when. So you. You come in with the car, up the drive, and there's a moment where I peep out. And when I saw that, I. I sort of knew it was going to work because it made me laugh immediately. And it was. It was. There's a cheekiness to this film that is very, very joyful. And I feel like I haven't seen a lot of. In things for a while. And that was all there. I think it was like, you say it's like freedom within the form, so you had to know your material. So. So, so. Well, we rehearsed a lot and then we would just shoot. And we would shoot for really, really long sequences. And so it becomes a bit like theatre.
- [34:38]
Ed Sayers
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:38]
Sian Clifford
And Laurie Kiniston, my gorgeous scene partner, we'd worked together before, so there was a real trust there already. And so we just went for it. And Sam really wanted us to be loose. And so you.
- [34:54]
Mark Kermode
Okay, so you have that looseness. But then injected into it is this fantastical element, which is that she is starting to disappear. And obviously there is. Well, forgive me for saying, I felt that there was a metaphor there about somebody not being seen and somebody disappearing. When she first. She calls somebody and says, I'm disappearing. Says, yes, many, many women of your age feel like this. No, I'm literally disappearing. Which, of course, actually is what an awful lot of those science fiction conceits are about. But that is a complex element to work into something which looks like a freewheeling, loose limbed documentary.
- [35:28]
Ed Sayers
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Sian Clifford
And it's so unusual. And it's. When I saw that, I was like, what? Okay. And. But it's. I think that's what's so exciting about it is. It's. It's in so many ways, it's steeped in such old English traditional values. It's in this stately home, and she's this lonely, narcissistic aristocrat. But then it's sort of. It's. It's commenting, I would say, both intentionally and unintentionally on some really sort of topical things about that need to be seen. And, you know, this is the character's response to, you know, seeing a friend have success with tablescaping on Instagram. I mean, that is what. That's why she's invited these people into her home. You know, she's. And it's so. It is hitting all of these very, very contemporary themes, but I think at its heart, it's ultimately about loneliness.
- [36:26]
Mark Kermode
Yeah. Yeah. There's a moment in it in which your character, you heard a bit of, you know, if you go away, who is going to film me? And it reminded me of a line from a film from the 1990s, Gus Van San film with Nicole Kidman, in which she is called to Die for which is inspired by real life, in which she says, if nobody's watching, what's the point? And it is that kind of weird obsessive culture that if you're not being looked at, it's as if you don't exists. And that sort of lends weight to her saying, if you're not here filming me, who is going to be looking at me? And then she literally starts disappearing. Yeah, good. Never ask a lot. This is like me and David Lynch. Never ask a long question to which the answer is yes. You mentioned television before and this thing about kind of anxious comedy, edgy comedy, comedy in which you don't know whether to laugh or whether to scream. I want to play a clip from a TV show which everybody will know. I want to play this clip because for me this is absolutely the comedy of anxiety. So take a look at this.
- [37:27]
Sian Clifford
Tell the truth. It's horrendous. It's horrendous. It's modern. Don't lie.
- [37:31]
Ed Sayers
I'm not.
- [37:32]
Sian Clifford
I look like a pencil. You. You don't look like. Don't laugh, it's okay. It's not okay. I'm gonna lose my job. Don't lose your job. It's cool.
- [37:42]
Mark Kermode
It's not cool.
- [37:43]
Sian Clifford
It's ed off. Oh, it's g. It's unsalvageable. Claire is French. Really? Yes. You've been drinking. Oh, he gave me champagne before he ruined my life. That's how they get you. Did you go to Anthony? Claire, I know what you remember. Why happened to me. Honestly thought it was the last time I was going to see him. I mean, that's awful, but if I.
- [38:14]
Mark Kermode
His little face was just Anthony.
- [38:17]
Sian Clifford
Is this what you asked for? No, of course not. He's just a bastard, right? Fuck it. What? Come on. No, no, it's all right. Come on.
- [38:32]
Commercial Announcer
Is your kid's birthday coming up? Don't stress the prep. The party shop at Michael's is your one stop shop for every theme from Bluey Rodeo. Transform your space into a birthday wonderland with dreamworthy tablescapes and decor. Starting at $0.99 plus get free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Whether you're crafting a one of a kind bash or grabbing the essentials, Michaels has everything to make their big day. Legendary. Shop now and order ahead for delivery or in store pickup. Michaels everything to celebrate anything.
- [39:10]
Ed Sayers
Hello, I'm Ozempic and I'm other GLP1s.
- [39:12]
Mark Kermode
Kinda like him. Are you shaking a maraca?
- [39:15]
Ed Sayers
Nope, I'm shaking the pill version of Ozempic. Which no one should ever do, except in ads like this.
- [39:19]
Mark Kermode
Nice disclaimer. Hey, thanks.
- [39:21]
Ed Sayers
Ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of the Ozempic pen or pill may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about ozempic semaglutide tablets 9 milligrams and ozempic semaglutid injection, 2 milligrams.
- [39:36]
Mark Kermode
There's a pill version of Ozem.
- [39:46]
Sian Clifford
I haven't watched that in a very long time. Makes me a bit emotional.
- [39:49]
Mark Kermode
Do you have good memories of it?
- [39:51]
Sian Clifford
Amazing memories. It's actually, I think, like, almost. It's 10 years this week that it first came out. I think. I think it was July 18, 2016, the first one, obviously the second one. But, yeah, very, very happy memories.
- [40:09]
Mark Kermode
There's a really weird thing, is that I am so old. I've told you this. I am so old that the band member of that band that you saw the picture of earlier on, his daughter won awards for producing fleabags. So I'm literally now at the level that we are the older generation. Well done. Well done. Marvelous. But there was a remarkable moment when suddenly everybody was talking about flu. It was absolutely everywhere. And then, of course, you're in Ballad of Wallace island, which, again, was one of those films you turn on the radio. It was on radio for everyone was talking about it. You seem to have a habit of picking very, very talking point projects.
- [40:44]
Sian Clifford
Well, not. Not intentionally. I mean, yeah, I really. I'll always try and. Yeah, I always try and I don't know, when I'm reading a script, I'm looking for the thing that is gonna make me most elastic. And this script, like, no one's come to me for warm parts since Vburg. That's the truth. Like, no one's interested. But this was. Yeah, she seemed kind.
- [41:15]
Mark Kermode
When you say warm parts, you mean cuddly, soft, edgy?
- [41:19]
Sian Clifford
Yeah, I think, yes. Severe Executive women has become a bit of. A. Bit of a specialty of mine. And. And so that, you know, that's been the conversation with my agents. I was like, can we get away from playing those types of women? And so that was one of those scripts that came in and I mean, obviously it was Tom and Tim and Carey, so. And it was shot in 18 days in freezing Wales, but beautiful Wales. And. Yeah, and it's. I mean, we had zero expectation of. Of what happened with it. I mean, yeah, lady, we shot in even less, 15 days with a crew of four people.
- [41:58]
Mark Kermode
The whole thing was 15 days.
- [42:00]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [42:01]
Mark Kermode
Wow.
- [42:02]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [42:03]
Ed Sayers
So that's.
- [42:03]
Mark Kermode
That's really impressive.
- [42:05]
Sian Clifford
Yeah. Yeah. Well done.
- [42:06]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, no, well done. And it's playing really well. Right. There is a response. I mean, you saw from the trailer. Well, you said. I know you said you don't read reviews. I said, but you've seen the trailer. You've seen the, you know, Saltburn on shrooms. You've seen all that stuff. Did you always know it was going to work? Cause here's the thing. If it had gone wrong, it would have gone spectacularly wrong.
- [42:27]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [42:28]
Mark Kermode
So when did you know it was working so well?
- [42:30]
Sian Clifford
Here's the thing is right before. And Sam the director knows this, so he won't have a hashtag now. But I almost pulled out because I was so scared of playing the part, because it felt like a leap. Even though, if I'm honest, growing up, I mean, I did, like, mostly musical theater when I was growing up, but even at drama school, I played massive comedy characters, really big swings. And then I just haven't done that professionally. And so I knew it was an amazing opportunity, but I was really, really scared of fucking it up myself. And I was actually. I was filming Bates Riz Ahmed's incredible TV show. I was just doing a few days on that. And I was talking to him about it and he. I mean, he was like, no, you should do it. He was like, independent film, this is an opportunity to roll the dice. And it wasn't just him saying that that made me make the decision, because I knew it was a fear that I had to run into rather than, you know, a sign that I shouldn't do it. And it was absolutely exhausting and, yeah, life changing. And it was a really. It was a battle some days to get through it and to. Yeah. But I have to give credit as well to our editor because it is. The way that it's pieced together is. It's. It's just. It's so funny. Like, the way the editing and that's, you know, the rhythm is everything in comedy.
- [44:05]
Mark Kermode
Yeah, absolutely.
- [44:06]
Sian Clifford
Really, really amazing.
- [44:08]
Mark Kermode
It's interesting. I mean, one of the things I've always thought as a critic is I would always rather see somebody take a risk and miss rather than play it safe. And independent cinema is one of the areas in which it's. Just go for it, you know, what's the worst that can happen? Because the market for independent cinema is so restricted and limited anyway. Like, if you make something, that breaks out, great. But if you make something and it doesn't matter. I'd always rather see somebody take a swing. Now, I asked you for an inspirational performance in a film and you didn't choose something from the independent sector. What did you go for?
- [44:41]
Sian Clifford
Well, my 11 year old self in my defense, went for Laura Dern in Jurassic Park.
- [44:48]
Mark Kermode
Now some of you may have seen Jurassic park, but it's a film about dinosaurs. I love Laura Dern. I think Laura Dern is fab. What do you like about Laura Dern?
- [44:58]
Sian Clifford
Oh, she's just effortless and real and so like she just wears her vulnerability all over her and she's just. She's the tops.
- [45:11]
Mark Kermode
Okay, we're gonna watch a clip from Jurassic park in which I think Laura Dern gives one of the all time actually shit scared screams, which is. And people think it's really easy to look scared on film and it really isn't.
- [45:24]
Sian Clifford
Yeah.
- [45:24]
Mark Kermode
Okay, here we go.
- [45:26]
Commercial Announcer
Ian.
- [45:27]
Sian Clifford
Ian.
- [45:28]
Mark Kermode
Remind me to thank John for a lovely weekend.
- [45:36]
Sian Clifford
Can we chance moving him?
- [45:39]
Mark Kermode
Please chance it. Ellie, come on.
- [45:58]
Sian Clifford
It's the other car.
- [46:00]
Mark Kermode
Dr. Grant.
- [46:04]
Sian Clifford
Ellen, they're not here. It.
- [46:36]
Ed Sayers
Anybody hear that?
- [46:39]
Commercial Announcer
It's a.
- [46:41]
Ed Sayers
It's an impact hurt is what it is.
- [46:45]
Mark Kermode
Fairly alarmed here. Come on, come on, come on, come on.
- [46:49]
Ed Sayers
We gotta get out of here.
- [46:50]
Mark Kermode
Gotta get out of here now. Now.
- [46:51]
Commercial Announcer
Right now.
- [46:52]
Sian Clifford
Go, go, go.
- [46:53]
Mark Kermode
Let's go.
- [46:53]
Commercial Announcer
Hey,
- [47:05]
Ed Sayers
Must go faster.
- [47:19]
Mark Kermode
Let it move.
- [47:20]
Commercial Announcer
Look out.
- [47:47]
Mark Kermode
Come on. It's that. That single still image doing that. I mean if that it. I. It's because it's not easy to actually look scared on camera. Exactly.
- [47:58]
Sian Clifford
And I think if I'm honest, that's what I look for in any performance that I admire. It's scale but grounded in truth. That's my favorite type of acting. That's what I'm always, always reaching for.
- [48:12]
Mark Kermode
Did you see lady with an Audience? Have you seen it with. And what was that like?
- [48:19]
Sian Clifford
Terrifying.
- [48:20]
Mark Kermode
Because.
- [48:22]
Sian Clifford
Because I don't like watching myself number one. And just. Because you just don't know how it's going to go down and you don't, you know, and there are moments where you hope that people will laugh and you hope that they'll cry and you hope they'll, you know, be startled by. But you can't predict those things. You can't control those things. And, and you. I'm a control freak and you're handing it over.
- [48:52]
Mark Kermode
What's it like when you hear them laughing?
- [48:55]
Sian Clifford
It's amazing. It's so satisfying because then you've done your job, you know, done a good job.
- [49:02]
Mark Kermode
So you did the thing that you were told to do, which was that you took the risk, you jumped in and that's the moment in which you think it's okay. It paid off.
- [49:07]
Sian Clifford
I think it's okay. And it was, it was that pop out and it gave people permission to laugh and I just, then I could relax a little bit.
- [49:14]
Mark Kermode
Okay, so the film is in cinemas 14th of August?
- [49:18]
Sian Clifford
Yes, I believe so. Yes.
- [49:19]
Mark Kermode
Go and see it in the cinema. Thank you so much. Lovely to have you in the show. That's it for this week's edition of Kermit on Film. Thanks to my guests Ed Sayers and Sian Clifford. You can hear the other half of this month's MK3D on next week's Kermodon film when I talk to imran Peretta about Ish and to Jason Isaacs about his latest exploits. The MK3D show happens live every month at the BFI Southbank. If you'd like to join us, tickets are available on the BFI website. For more conversations about film from me and Simon Mayo, head over to Kermoda Mayo's take wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Keep watching the skies.
- [50:08]
Commercial Announcer
Is your kid's birthday coming up? Don't stress the prep. The party shop at Michael's is your one stop shop for every theme from Bluey to Rodeo. Transform your space into a birthday wonderland with dream worthy tablescapes and decor starting at $0.99 plus get free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Whether you're crafting a one of a kind bash or grabbing the essentials, Michaels has everything to make their big day legendary. Shop now and order ahead for delivery or in store pickup. Michaels everything to celebrate anything.
- [50:47]
Mark Kermode
Hello, this is Simon Mayo. And this is Mark kermode. He's the UK's best and most trusted film critic. He's a best selling writer, broadcaster and national treasure. Far too kind. Kermode and Mayo's take has all the reviews you need and star guests such as Sir Ian McKellen.
- [51:03]
Ed Sayers
Nice to be with you.
- [51:04]
Mark Kermode
Emma Stone.
- [51:05]
Commercial Announcer
That sounds like something I would love
- [51:06]
Sian Clifford
to be a part of.
- [51:07]
Mark Kermode
Ewan McGregor.
- [51:08]
Commercial Announcer
I'm very good.
- [51:09]
Sian Clifford
How are you doing?
- [51:09]
Mark Kermode
Kate Blanchett. What was that word you used?
- [51:11]
Sian Clifford
Cattywampus.
- [51:12]
Mark Kermode
Kerma de Mayo's Take all the film you need available wherever you get your podcasts.