Boundaries, Blended Families & Brutal Honesty ft. Kourtney Kardashian

Summary

Khloé in Wonder Land: Episode Summary
Episode Title: Boundaries, Blended Families & Brutal Honesty ft. Kourtney Kardashian
Release Date: May 22, 2025
Hosts: Khloé Kardashian and Kourtney Kardashian

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1. Blended Family Dynamics

In this heartfelt episode, Khloé welcomes her sister Kourtney Kardashian to discuss the intricacies of blending families. Kourtney opens up about the challenges and rewards of merging her family of seven with Travis Barker’s household.

Kourtney (00:17): "Some days I've thought like, wow, this is really hard. Blending families. But even in the days where it's hard, there's so much more love. It's such a deeper, richer existence."

Kourtney emphasizes that despite the chaos, the love within a blended family creates a profound and fulfilling environment.

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2. Managing a Large Household

The sisters delve into the practical aspects of managing a bustling household. Kourtney shares insights into organizing family dinners and adapting to the fluctuating presence of family and friends.

Kourtney (03:11): "We set the table for 12. And whoever comes, comes."

This flexible approach allows for spontaneity while ensuring that every family member feels included, regardless of the number of guests.

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3. Parenting Styles and Attachment Parenting

Kourtney discusses her parenting philosophy, particularly her inclination towards attachment parenting. She explains how this style fosters secure attachments and nurtures her children’s emotional well-being.

Kourtney (23:17): "It's really not separating for as much as possible in the first, definitely three years. It really helps, I think, nurture their attachment, secure attachment."

Her dedication to co-sleeping and extended breastfeeding highlights her commitment to creating a strong bond with her children from an early age.

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4. Navigating Step-Parenting and Relationships

The conversation shifts to Kourtney’s role as a stepmother. She reflects on the balance between being a supportive figure without overstepping, allowing Travis to handle discipline while she focuses on being a positive role model.

Kourtney (06:46): "I love my role as stepmom because I don't feel like it's up to me to discipline. And so we've kind of allowed each other to talk about it."

Her harmonious relationship with Travis, rooted in years of friendship, has been pivotal in successfully blending their families.

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5. Kourtney's IVF Journey and Natural Conception

Addressing misconceptions, Kourtney clarifies that her son, Rocky, was conceived naturally, a year after ceasing IVF treatments. She opens up about the emotional toll IVF took on her, ultimately leading her to trust in a more natural approach.

Kourtney (37:06): "Once I was able to let go of all of that and just trust in God, it happened."

Her candid discussion provides comfort and inspiration to others navigating similar fertility challenges.

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6. Faith and Spirituality in Their Lives

Faith plays a significant role in Kourtney’s life. She shares how prayer and spirituality are integral to her family’s daily routines, offering strength and guidance.

Kourtney (39:09): "We say prayers together when we're... there. We say prayers before flights or travel together as a family."

Their shared spiritual practices reinforce the family’s unity and resilience.

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7. Relationship as Sisters and Public Perceptions

Khloé and Kourtney address common misconceptions about their relationship, particularly the false narrative that they and Kim are antagonistic. Kourtney highlights their close-knit bond and collaborative communication.

Kourtney (40:44): "I think you almost talk to Kim more than you talk to me. Because whenever I'm with Kim, you're always texting or calling."

This honesty dispels rumors, showcasing a supportive and loving sisterly relationship.

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8. Balancing Mom Responsibilities and Priorities

The sisters explore the challenges of prioritizing time and energy within a large family. Kourtney discusses strategies like sequencing tasks and prioritizing activities to ensure every child receives attention without feeling overwhelmed.

Kourtney (41:18): "I found sequencing, like putting things in order of importance has really helped me."

Her approach allows for flexibility and responsiveness to each child’s unique needs.

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9. Reflections and Memories

Khloé and Kourtney reminisce about their shared experiences, highlighting both joyful and challenging moments. Kourtney fondly recalls their Miami days as some of their best memories together.

Kourtney (43:40): "The days in Miami were fun. More fun than the days in the Hamptons, I would say, obviously."

These reflections underscore the strength and depth of their sisterly bond.

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10. Brutal Honesty and Personal Growth

Throughout the episode, both sisters demonstrate a commitment to brutal honesty, discussing personal growth and self-improvement. Kourtney shares her journey through therapy and how it has helped her navigate complex family dynamics and personal emotions.

Kourtney (29:57): "I think I had resentment about certain things even before I ever started therapy. It was just kind of like working through them."

Their open dialogue encourages listeners to embrace honesty and vulnerability in their own lives.

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Conclusion

This episode of Khloé in Wonder Land offers an intimate and honest exploration of blended family dynamics, parenting challenges, and the strength of sisterly bonds. Kourtney Kardashian’s candid reflections provide valuable insights and actionable advice for listeners navigating similar life experiences.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kourtney (00:17): "Blending families... there's so much more love. It's such a deeper, richer existence."
• Kourtney (23:17): "It really helps, I think, nurture their attachment, secure attachment."
• Kourtney (37:06): "Once I was able to let go of all of that and just trust in God, it happened."
• Kourtney (39:09): "We say prayers together... before flights or travel together as a family."
• Kourtney (43:40): "The days in Miami were fun."

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Note: Advertisements, product promotions, and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to maintain focus on the core discussions between Khloé and Kourtney Kardashian.

Transcript

[Chloe]

Wow, look at her go.

[Courtney]

That is a very intense cup size or crystals, all of it.

[Chloe]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

Some days I've thought like, wow, this is really hard. Blending families. But even in the days where it's hard, there's so much more love. It's such a deeper, richer existence. You know, I think living on authentically is not conforming. I will, like, nurse the fever of my kids versus giving Tylenol or ibuprofen. Like, I love to just go against the grain so I don't do Botox.

[Chloe]

Courtney.

[Courtney]

Oh, well, I was gonna say we're all gonna die. Like, my third eye is open.

[Chloe]

Courtney. Do you see the judging eyes now?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

Okay, they're here. She just has to remember how much she loves me. Sometimes I think she forgets just up.

[Courtney]

Sending the love text messages.

[Chloe]

I'm going to send her a novel after this.

[Courtney]

Take your chance.

[Chloe]

Discover sh.

[Courtney]

The new fragrance Chanel.

[Chloe]

Hello, Courtney.

[Courtney]

Oh, hello.

[Chloe]

Hello, darling. Welcome to Chloe and Wonderland.

[Courtney]

I've been waiting to come down to Wonderland.

[Chloe]

No, but honestly, north had the best idea. She was like, you need. She said this to Kim, so I don't know how she worded it, but she was saying, you, Kim and me need to do a pod together. A session. Because we are the OGs.

[Courtney]

Oh.

[Chloe]

Like, do this, do one of these together and just chit chat. And I thought that would be a great idea.

[Courtney]

Has Kim been to Wonderland?

[Chloe]

No, she hasn't been to Wonderland. We've called her on Wonderland, but she hasn't been here. You are the first sister.

[Courtney]

Wow.

[Chloe]

Wow.

[Courtney]

I'm honored.

[Chloe]

What do you want to talk about today? I have something that I think is interesting, but it's up to you if you want to talk about it.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Chloe]

Let's talk about your new family dynamic. It's crazy. You are a mom of seven. How is the family dynamic? Like, how is the household chaos? Has to be with seven kids. All different ages, too.

[Courtney]

There's days when everyone's home and everyone has friends over, and then there's days when no one's home and it's Travis and I and the baby and what do you prefer?

[Chloe]

Do you love a house of chaos and fingerprints everywhere in messes, or do you love a house of like. Or maybe you like both. You need the exhale moment, which is.

[Courtney]

I mean, the balance is nice, but I think him and I love when everyone's home. We had family dinner last night. We have family dinner every Sunday, and there were four of them at dinner. I remember I first. When we first would do family Dinners. I would try to be like, okay, who are you bringing? And so we can set the table and make sure we have the table set for the right amount of people.

[Chloe]

Oh, now it's more open.

[Courtney]

And then it's just like that. Travis would say, but we don't have to know. Like, just be. Just let it flow, you know, You. You would be like, I need their name. I need.

[Chloe]

I'm making their address, their Social Security number.

[Courtney]

So now we set the table for the whole amount, which I think is 12.

[Chloe]

Like the amount of 10.

[Courtney]

Yeah. That sits at the table. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Yeah, it's 12. We set the table for 12. And whoever comes, comes. There's been times when it's been me, Travis and Rocky.

[Chloe]

Just you three.

[Courtney]

Just us.

[Chloe]

Oh, my gosh.

[Courtney]

And the table set for everyone. And no one else can make it. But it's usually everyone and some friends. But I remember just thinking, can't we do things that are just the family, like family trips or any of those? And there's usually.

[Chloe]

I remember you as a teenager, you loved having a plus one.

[Courtney]

But I remember we would also do things like when we would go to Vail for Thanksgiving and go skiing, we weren't allowed to bring friends. When we would go to.

[Chloe]

But I don't think we could afford to bring friends, probably.

[Courtney]

And also people would do things with their own families for Thanksgiving or when we went to Hawaii, we weren't allowed to bring friends. It's a nice idea, but I've grown a lot of. In the way of just being able to be like, it doesn't matter. We're. Whoever comes to dinner, it's going to be. It's like I let go of a lot of the need to almost plan or maybe it's even have control. I don't know what it is, but I've let go of that a lot to just be like the table set. Whoever comes, you know, comes. And. And for trips, too. I'll be like, everyone's invited.

[Chloe]

No, how you can all bring a friend is insane to me. You handle like me. No, the.

[Courtney]

You're going to pick out who's in what room and what's going to.

[Chloe]

And you are so carefree about it, and I love that. I wish I could be more like.

[Courtney]

That, but I've grown to be that way through the experience because if I held on to it, or let's. Things like that bother me, which I used to. I used to be like when it was family dinner. Well, why can't you tell me who's coming? I don't get it. Why. You know, why can't. I would ask Travis, can you tell me who's coming of the kids, and I'll see who's coming with the younger kids or whatever. And then I just was able to let it go.

[Chloe]

When I was a stepmom, it was challenging for me, and I didn't have little babies. It was just me, I feel like. And maybe because you guys have had so much history, you and Travis, of being friends prior to your marriage, I feel like you've done a pretty good job of being now the stepmom.

[Courtney]

Well, I love my role as stepmom because I don't feel like it's up to me to discipline. And so we've kind of allowed each other to. We'll talk about it, and then, you know, he could handle the harder things. I definitely give advice or try to be a good, I guess, role model or even just how they say modeling is the best way to kind of teach your kids more than just saying certain things. So I feel just hopefully being a positive influence or an example. And we have lots of good conversations, and we laugh, and, you know, I feel like it's in the best way I can be there to be supportive or really in any way that they want me to be for as much or as little as they want, you know? And so I do think also having the relationship that we've had for so many years, I was friends with Travis and the kids for longer than we've been together, you know?

[Chloe]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So I think having that history definitely helped. And I used to think, too, going into it, oh, there's. There's. We have such a good foundation that it would just be seamless. But some days I've thought, wow, this is really hard. Blending families.

[Chloe]

And I think regardless of how much history you have when you are friends with someone, and then as soon as you get in a relationship with someone, regardless of how great you are, I think kids feel like they also have to still know, like, where's my role? Like, let me test boundaries. And I think that's very normal. But for you, you're probably like, wait, I thought we were good, and you are.

[Courtney]

Well. And I think about testing. Yeah. Also, I think it was hard for all, but we moved out of our house that we had lived in, you know, for the kids, whole lives, and then moved in there, and then sharing space, which we did. Slowly, we stayed. That is true, I think, a year and a half separately, but married. But Living a block away from each other. So I think that was really a helpful transition.

[Chloe]

I think if you're married or if you're getting married, and if you did it before your marriage or after doing that slow transition of that I thought was really smart. You guys did it once you were married. But I do. When you have kids, I think that's a really smart way to do it.

[Courtney]

But even once you're then living together, there's things you don't even think about, like moving things in the pantry or, I don't know, just little things that you don't think about. And again, that's where I've had growth. Because I would think, okay, it's. Take a deep breath. It's okay if the fridge is a mess. Cause there's some days, 25 people going in there and looking for something or grabbing something or. Now I've gotten it to such a good place. But I remember just.

[Chloe]

Well, think about. You've always had younger kids. Mason is now 15. But you then took on a family with young adults, so you sort of missed you evolving into that. You know what I mean? You're just thrown into, like, in the young adult stage, is a hard stage. So now they're young adults who I'm sure want to socialize, have friends over. And that's. You're probably like, wait, what I'm used to rain is what, 10? You know, you're used to young people, and now you have Rocky, who's one.

[Courtney]

Yeah. So everyone is in such different phases. But even in the days where it's hard, there's so much more love. There's so much. It's such a deeper, richer existence. You know, when we first got married, they said it takes four years.

[Chloe]

Oh, my God.

[Courtney]

To get on the same boat together.

[Chloe]

Holy.

[Courtney]

As a family. As a blended family.

[Chloe]

And what year are you in?

[Courtney]

I got married in May.

[Chloe]

You did?

[Courtney]

So my anniversary is coming up, and it'll be three years.

[Chloe]

That's crazy.

[Courtney]

So it said. It said, it really, truly takes four years to feel like you're all on the same boat and you're truly a family. And, like, doing this together where, like, almost there, right? One year left.

[Chloe]

You're almost there.

[Courtney]

But I remember at the times when it didn't feel that way, or it feels like it's like your squad versus my squad, or, you know, we do things this way and you do things this way or whatever it could be.

[Chloe]

Well, think about how hard it is. I don't know if you remember before kids just living with another person. Just two adults integrating their lives together. Blending. Learning how to share a bed. Like, it could be the Share the tv. Like, I dread the newness of that. I'm like, I don't want you touching my remote. This is my bedtime. Think about that. Now you're blending tiny people with big emotions. That's crazy.

[Courtney]

I think doing it each our own way for so long.

[Chloe]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And then coming together and being like, okay, now what's our way? How do we do it? Because I'll be like, but this is how I do it.

[Chloe]

But also, how do you do it as a couple?

[Courtney]

Right. What's our new way now? What's the way? So I think it's like finding your way.

[Chloe]

And then do you have tips for people that are blending families?

[Courtney]

I'll always think of it like this. What is my. What am I supposed to learn from this and grow from this? Say it's one specific thing. I'll be like, okay, how do I learn and grow from this moment? Or, you know, we're two people with two brains that have different opinions sometimes. So how do you each express your side and be heard? How is it good enough, you know, for everybody kind of thing. If I laugh about something and don't take it so seriously, it's kind of like a choice.

[Chloe]

But it really irks the fuck out of a lot of people. Well, like, sometimes if you're like. Because you will laugh in someone's face.

[Courtney]

And just be like, well, no, I don't mean, like, laugh at them. That is just uncomfortableness of just, like laughing. Because I don't know what else to do. But this is like having a choice to be like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. And just kind of like, not like, laugh it off if it means something to you.

[Chloe]

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Courtney]

Yeah, don't sweat the small stuff. But also, I mean, have a sense of humor. Humor. I don't want to give specific examples, but if a teenager did something that's like, what teenagers do, Right? And instead of being like, I'm not the role that has to make it a big deal. So I feel like I could just be like, oh, my gosh, that was think to myself. That was actually kind of funny and smart and whatever.

[Chloe]

I like that you said, you know, your role is not to be the disciplinary with the older kids. And knowing that I think something that Bruce did so well with us, or I could speak for myself, is Bruce never tried to be dad. And I always appreciated and respected that.

[Courtney]

Okay, so that wasn't my experience. Okay, but maybe that's why it became your experience.

[Chloe]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

So grateful for that. For you. But really, he. Yeah, I think tried to be dad for you. Well, not dad, but tried to be the following and bossy and would tell me certain friends can't come over and would like.

[Chloe]

But also maybe that experience molded you into being the step parent that you are today. Whether it be things you don't didn't like from Bruce or things you did.

[Courtney]

Like or I think about too with Denise, who Denise was our dad's fiance for five years. Many.

[Chloe]

We love her. We still love her.

[Courtney]

And I love her and shout out Denise still have a relationship with her. And I think about what an amazing example she was to all of us. She taught us so much about being young ladies at the time.

[Chloe]

She put me in cotillion. Do you know what cotillion is? Loved cotillion.

[Courtney]

She didn't do that for me, but.

[Chloe]

Oh, you were just born a lady.

[Courtney]

With knowing table manners or whatever it is.

[Chloe]

It is. Oh, my God. Does that mean I was a beast?

[Courtney]

No, I wish that I did that. But maybe I was just older, so maybe she was able to teach us.

[Chloe]

You're right. You know, that means I was a savage at the table.

[Courtney]

You could have been wild.

[Chloe]

I could see myself.

[Courtney]

So, yeah, I think having that really positive experience with Denise really helped me too.

[Chloe]

And I think you didn't connect with Bruce well. Yeah, I just thought you didn't like him because he was replacing dad. Not that he did. Yeah, no one could replace dad. But that's just why I thought you didn't like him.

[Courtney]

So weird that you had such a different experience. I think it's because you were younger.

[Chloe]

I had such a different experience. But maybe mom at a talk with him, maybe your retraction taught him something. So maybe it was a lesson for everyone.

[Courtney]

Oh, yeah. I'd be like, I want to call my dad. And then he would, like, hang up the phone. We would have yelling wars.

[Chloe]

Yeah, that is not my experience at all. That's crazy. See, you can live in the same house, being raised by the same parents, not even know. Not even know. And have totally different experiences. Well, I'm sorry you went through that.

[Courtney]

Thank you. It was fine. That's why I moved into Dad's.

[Chloe]

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[Kim]

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[Chloe]

And how do you like being a mom?

[Courtney]

About nine years later I was like, being a mom.

[Chloe]

No, I mean just starting over nine years later. That's crazy.

[Courtney]

So I felt like becoming a mom again really ignited, like intensely ignited my motherly role, my motherly instinct. And I feel like my feminine energy. Remember, I would always send. Yes, I have many videos about this, about feminine energy. And I feel like it intensely ignited that feeling inside me of just I am a mom. I had a strong desire to not work and stay home and be with the kids, which is, I would say probably like once a week I'll work just today. This is today.

[Chloe]

Okay, this is, yes, thank you.

[Courtney]

And it's not like the whole day, it's, you know, two hours. Yeah, it's like a couple hours of my day. And then the rest of the time I'm truly at home and I'm, you know, being a mom.

[Chloe]

Is there anything that you either forgot about, like, oh, wow, I forgot about this stage or is there just because Rocky came nine years after rain? Or is there something you're like, wow, I'm gonna do this so differently because I either learned I don't need that or just you're in a different phase in your life.

[Courtney]

Maybe the stuff I would want to have the best lotion or the best oil or whatever. And now I just use organic coconut oil. You know, I keep it pretty simple even.

[Chloe]

I think for me, your first kid, you overdo everything. And then your second, you're like, we don't need half this crap. I mean, obviously there's marketing tactics. And I get why we are conditioned that we need to buy all this stuff and a new mom. You're nervous and scared, and so you're like, I need everything.

[Courtney]

I had things before, but I remember, like, when mom would try to stress me out about the room or be like, it's not even painted. And that's when I said people had babies in caves. It just like gave me peace to know it's okay, whatever it is, as long as I have a boob. And yes, you know, you've two of those. Whatever. And one thing I guess we did differently. I did differently this time is I've always shared a bed with the other kids, but I share a room. We share a room with Rocky, but eventually.

[Chloe]

Do you think he'll have his own room?

[Courtney]

Yes, of course. And I think it started more from just space in the house, you know.

[Chloe]

But this style of parenting is called attachment style parenting.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chloe]

And what is that exactly?

[Courtney]

I think it's really not separating for as much as possible in the first, definitely three years. It really helps, I think, nurture their attachment, Secure attachment. And it's actually, it's just. Even without knowing that, I remember I read this, the attachment parenting book before Penelope. But it's kind of just what my instincts tell. Like I lean towards and it's like what they tell me to do. I feel like just my motherly instincts.

[Chloe]

I love that.

[Courtney]

Mother knows best.

[Chloe]

No. Oh, my gosh. And Dreza sings me that song all the time.

[Courtney]

Oh my gosh.

[Chloe]

Okay, I want to look at questions now.

[Courtney]

I thought one of them that was interesting was like, how do we do things differently?

[Chloe]

Yes. As a family.

[Courtney]

As a. As like mother, like, as the mother role. And I feel like I was thinking about it because first I'm like, I don't know what Chloe does. I have no idea. And then I started thinking.

[Chloe]

Wait, let me ask you.

[Courtney]

Oh, I was just gonna say that you are very scheduled.

[Chloe]

Uh huh. I am.

[Courtney]

And very scheduled and planned out throughout the whole day. Like activities, you know, outfits, all the things. Bedtimes, food.

[Chloe]

You don't have a bedtime for your kids?

[Courtney]

Well, we have a general time, but we're not definitely as babies, we had no schedule. Rocky doesn't really have a schedule, but he has a general thing. But if it's like some days like today, we got up at 7 made breakfast for the kids and they got out the door. And then I noticed he was so, so tired at around 8:30. And so we. We nursed in bed and he went to sleep.

[Chloe]

Let me also say if my kids are tired, I'm like, they could go to sleep.

[Courtney]

Yeah. No, I'm not.

[Chloe]

Like, you better stay awake.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

And tell.

[Courtney]

No, I could just tell. But since day, I have no idea what nap time would be. And like, it's okay. We're just kind of go with the flow and also with the attachment style parenting. I hold him for his naps.

[Chloe]

The whole time.

[Courtney]

The whole time.

[Chloe]

Wow.

[Courtney]

On.

[Chloe]

That's crazy to me. I think Saturday, he's also not a light baby. He's.

[Courtney]

Yeah, he's like 23 pounds.

[Chloe]

You're holding a 23 pound baby for two hours.

[Courtney]

Three hours.

[Chloe]

Three hours.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Once he took a nap for like five hours and holy.

[Chloe]

In a sling. Or just.

[Courtney]

No, like, sit in our little chair.

[Chloe]

Okay.

[Courtney]

Usually in the room. And then that's great. I still have my little breastfeeding pillow.

[Chloe]

Okay.

[Courtney]

And then he'll kind of lay on there, but my arms under. And then I have a little radiation blanket that I put over to like protect from EMFs for phone use.

[Chloe]

Don't you have that thing that you made me?

[Courtney]

And I have that little sticker on my phone too.

[Chloe]

I wonder if we have to replace that sticker.

[Courtney]

I was curious. I don't think so.

[Chloe]

How do you think we differ as moms? Well, I think him.

[Courtney]

I think even just how I'll do like extended breastfeeding, co sleeping.

[Chloe]

But not everyone can breastfeed. So some of the. But I'm just saying some of that isn't possible.

[Courtney]

No, but it's also me. What? It wasn't possible.

[Chloe]

I couldn't breastfeed. I've tried. I did. I had a person come to Cleveland and I don't know what they're called, and they came for over a week, tried. I did the tea and the cookies and these sweet potato cookies.

[Courtney]

I think you were stressed out too.

[Chloe]

I was just a tad.

[Courtney]

I read something recently that said if you do things the opposite of how you were raised, in certain things, like in certain areas that you're healing yourself, you're healing that wound of things that you didn't get that you needed.

[Chloe]

Do you think you remember breastfeeding?

[Courtney]

Oh, I did. I wasn't breastfed.

[Chloe]

I'm saying.

[Courtney]

Oh, as a child.

[Chloe]

Yes. Like, well, yeah.

[Courtney]

Are you, like, are my kids gonna remember that?

[Chloe]

I'm assuming you're saying now you breastfeed because you weren't breastfed or something.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Chloe]

So. But do you. You wouldn't know known you weren't breastfed if mom didn't tell you.

[Courtney]

But I think it's subconsciously. Subconscious. It's like an instinct inside of me that's like, I didn't with Mason. I breastfed for like 14 months. I wasn't thinking like, whoa, I wasn't breastfed. So I'm gonna breastfeed this long.

[Chloe]

It's just, I think, like, do what makes you happy.

[Courtney]

I think it's a feeling inside of just like. Or just an instinct or intuition. That was the first time I read that was recently of that sentiment. And I just thought it was interesting.

[Chloe]

So it's healing your lack of breastfeeding.

[Courtney]

I think it's that connection or like co sleeping or like that I don't leave for extended periods of time.

[Chloe]

What are your issues with mom? Let's talk about that.

[Courtney]

No, I don't have issues.

[Chloe]

I feel like subliminally.

[Courtney]

Well, no, I don't have issues now. Now I feel like I can ask her questions. I even went to visit MJ recently and just out of curiosity, because I feel like it's good for us to know our just even family, how our family did things before us, just more from a curiosity standpoint. I was asking mj, like, how did you do things? Did you breastfeed? Did you have help?

[Chloe]

Did you. What did she say?

[Courtney]

She said she breastfed. Forgot how long. She told me. And then I asked, but I need. I recorded it actually.

[Chloe]

Nice.

[Courtney]

But then I asked her, like, did you co. Sleep? Where did the kids sleep? Sleep. Did they sleep in their own.

[Chloe]

It was a very different.

[Courtney]

By themselves?

[Chloe]

No, it was like kids back in those days were not seen, not heard. That was like the expression no playrooms, no toys were in the main part of the house, like kids. Well, this isn't hiding.

[Courtney]

I'm not asking to judge. I'm just asking to know.

[Chloe]

No, but I'm just telling you. It was also you have to have like the context of the era.

[Courtney]

So then I was asking mom too, when we went to lunch the other day, and I was asking her, like, what did they do? Did you have a monitor? Did. Did was cry it out like a thing?

[Chloe]

She said she did sound only.

[Courtney]

Sound only? Yeah, she said that she had a sound only monitor. And I said, was cry it out a thing at that time? And she said she would try, but she would always cave. And I was thinking, after how long was I sitting there crying alone in a dark room.

[Chloe]

Oh, my gosh.

[Courtney]

But I think I had resentment about certain things even before I ever started therapy. And then I think as maybe the first year or so on my start of my therapy journey, I would have certain resentful feelings which already existed. It was just kind of like working through them. And then I think finally getting to the place of either if there's actions that happen that I don't love or agree with, just to not take them personally or even feel the need to, like, correct them or, you know, have a conversation about every little thing with balance. Because I also just don't want to keep it in for. And it keeps happening and then I like, explode or something. I think it's good to thoughtfully say something if it makes you feel a certain way. But yeah, to now just being able to be, like, curious about how things were done, but not really judgmental because we're all just on a different journey path.

[Chloe]

I love that.

[Courtney]

It's interesting, though. I always hear the thing too, how kids could grow up with the same parents and the same household, but they're so different. But it's because they get a different version of you because you're at a different place in your life. You know, more you're just a different person. But I think I love our traditions, that we love our traditions.

[Chloe]

And I love how over the top I do because I love, like any holiday. I'm like, I lean in with the napkins or the cookies or whatever, and I. But I learned that from mom growing up.

[Courtney]

Yeah, mom in the 80s.

[Kim]

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[Chloe]

I get asked about you all the time in regards to your IVF journey and I'm like, but she didn't do one.

[Courtney]

Oh, like, people think that. People think that that's how I got pregnant.

[Chloe]

Yes. And I know. And so I know you talked about, yes, you tried IVF and it didn't work for you. But how Rocky was conceived was that he wasn't through ivf. And no shame to ivf. I have an IVF baby. Love ivf. It's a great thing. But I do think that, and I don't know if you care to talk about it, but people always, to me, when they say it to me like, well, who's. What doctor did she use and how long was she doing IVF before that? I'm like, I think to my knowledge, always, Rocky was just naturally.

[Courtney]

Yeah. A year after stopping ivf. Oh, a year after he conceived naturally on Valentine's Day. We conceived naturally on Valentine's Day.

[Chloe]

But I still can't believe you went into labor Halloween. But he was born November 1st. Dream and True were telling me the story. Dream knows like every specific.

[Courtney]

Oh my gosh.

[Chloe]

She, she knew the time of when he was born. Yeah, she was like it was 1201. She almost had.

[Courtney]

Yeah. 12 Halloween baby. 12 midnight.

[Chloe]

Well that's not nice. Well that's crazy because Courtney is the biggest Halloween fan.

[Courtney]

Well no, I love that he obviously wanted his birthday to be November 1st. But I, my lesson from IVF was that it really was felt like it was going against against me against physically, spiritually, mentally. Everything that I believed and felt. It just felt like it was going against what my body wanted. And so we, it didn't work for me at all. We never made an embryo through ivf. It also felt like a monthly negative, almost like rejection every time it would be like it didn't work or you know, this isn't happening and your body's doing this. It was like someone negatively talking about my body to me every month after month. And then you almost start to feel that way about your body, like I can't do this or you know, whatever. So once I let go of all of that, it's almost like certain fear based doctors that kind of are like, haha, you need to do this because I don't know, that's kind of what was happening. So once I was able to let go of all that and just trust in God, it happened.

[Chloe]

Why don't you talk about your faith and how much faith plays a part in your life?

[Courtney]

I feel like people are always surprised. They'll be like what you witches? Like, yeah, you know, I get that all the time.

[Chloe]

Believe in God when I talk about that. I read the Bible every day.

[Courtney]

People are like, yeah you do. I read like I have like a daily devotional that I read. I've been trying to ask some of our friends out that live near us to do a Bible study, which I think would be amazing for the adults.

[Chloe]

I would love it. I told you that I want to do it with you. I'm going to try that new church. Not this weekend because it's Mother's Day, but the next weekend. Do you and Travis have the same, like do you guys pray together? Is he faith based? Is he on his own journey?

[Courtney]

I feel like we both are. And I feel like we say prayers together when we're like, you know, when there's something coming up. I mean I say the kids prayers every night if there's something that they might be anxious about at school or something. You know, we'll pray in those moments. Pray before flights or travel together as a family.

[Chloe]

I think the more you talk to God, the louder you'll start hearing him. Because at first you're like, well, okay. Like, it's so awkward or weird, it's just foreign to you. But then the more that you talk to him, those answers do show up. Or innately you find the answer, you figure it out and that's how he speaks to you. So keep talking to him. What do you think people misunderstand about our relationship as sisters the most?

[Courtney]

I don't know. What do people think about our relationship?

[Chloe]

From what I hear, people have more of a misconception about you and Kim. I think they think you and Kim, like, are like enemies, hate each other.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

And I think you almost talk to Kim more than you talk to me. Because whenever I'm with Kim, you're always texting or calling. And I'm like, that bitch doesn't call me this much.

[Courtney]

Really. It's probably either about kids stuff.

[Chloe]

I know Pee and North, you know. So you guys have the same stuff going on.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

How do you decide what's actually worth your energy these days?

[Courtney]

So one thing that was surprising also is being a mom of four or seven. But yeah, mom of seven. Obviously all my kids deserve my energy. But just of being like, how do I prioritize here? Because like I said, I want to be with the baby as much as I can, but then if one of the other kids need me and if it doesn't make sense to, you know, sometimes they need one on one attention. And so I found sequencing, like putting things in order of importance has really helped me.

[Chloe]

Yeah. Sometimes we say yes so much, but does it actually add value to our family or is it more dividing and separating it? I don't know.

[Courtney]

That's a good way to think of it because even with activities, like mom said to me the other day, and I love challenging the things that she will come to me with. But she was like, do I know? She was like, you know, Chloe's son does all these activities every single day, blah, blah, blah, like naming the whole.

[Chloe]

Thing, I go, I also don't like the comparing because that always just makes.

[Courtney]

Well, also I said to her, I said, you know, it's also. And this is not for your son because he's 3. But when the kids get older, I said, it's not great to like fill over schedule over schedule or fill too much of their time with scheduling because they also need time to just relax.

[Chloe]

I agree with Tru. I pulled back some of her activities. I don't like over scheduling.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I was trying to figure out how to balance with all the kids, and I felt this need to drive them to school in the mornings. And then I started talking about it and thinking about it, and then I was like, is it important to you guys? Like I said today, for example, would you rather me drive you to school in the morning or go to your game? And it was go to the game. So then I was like, it's okay. Then I can spend the morning with, you know, Travis and Rocky, and then I can go to the game this afternoon, and then I can, you know, figure out. It's like each. Each person getting their own time.

[Chloe]

Yeah. What is your favorite memory of you and I as a duo?

[Courtney]

There's a lot.

[Chloe]

I know we have a lot. Or what's something that stands out doesn't have to be your favorite.

[Courtney]

I mean, the days in Miami were fun.

[Chloe]

So fun.

[Courtney]

More fun than the days in the Hamptons, I would say, obviously.

[Chloe]

Did you see Kylie was just in Miami? I saw, and I was like, girl. She was, like, FaceTiming me from Miami, and she was having the best time. Oh, you're gonna die. When I show you this video that she sent me.

[Courtney]

But Miami's just such a good time.

[Chloe]

I was like, you have no idea. Court and I, we ran that city. It was amazing.

[Courtney]

Yeah. In a hot summer when no one was in town.

[Chloe]

Was. That's probably why we ran it. What's your least favorite memory?

[Courtney]

Just, like, the era where it felt like you and Kim were, like, the tables turned, and you and I would gang up on you and I would gang up on Kim for so long, and then it felt like the tables turned.

[Chloe]

So you didn't like both eras, or you didn't like when Kim and I would.

[Courtney]

No, I liked when we ganged up on Kim. That was fun. But then later, once you and Kim would gang up on me, and I was the sensitive one. I think it was once I started therapy, and then once I would kind of started challenging the ways that we did things sometimes, like the way that we just all function.

[Chloe]

No, I know that era, and I hated it, too.

[Courtney]

And so I think the now, it's.

[Chloe]

Just sometimes feel like we're in that era sometimes.

[Courtney]

Well, I feel like I love to just go against the grain, I think.

[Chloe]

But do you do that because you really care or you just are?

[Courtney]

No, I think living authentically I think living authentically is not conforming to whatever it is. And whether, for me, it's like, there's so many ways. There's ways, like, we function as a family that it's like, if someone does the same thing every day, like, I do it with everything. It's not about our family. Like, let's say, the school system. I'll think, why do kids fucking go to school? Truly, it's so dated.

[Chloe]

Oh, I'm such a homeschool person. So don't even get me going.

[Courtney]

So then I'll start thinking, and then, like, you know, my kids will send me videos about, like, why do kids go to school? It'll be, like, really successful people. And they'll be like, my kids never go to school, and they're never going to. And whatever. And then I'm like, okay, what's the goal here? You want to do homeschool? Let's do it, you know, or whatever it is. I'll just. I think it's anything. I will, like, nurse the fever of my kids versus giving Tylenol or ibuprofen. Like, I just, like, want to do that. And whatever. Whatever it is. There's so many things like that where I feel like I kind of do maybe in the world. The generally maybe does more what I do. But in the United States. States.

[Chloe]

Oh, it's Kimberly. Hi. I'm doing my podcast with.

[Courtney]

Oh, you are? How's it going? I'm the first sister guest.

[Chloe]

She showed up. Wow, your makeup looks so pretty. Kim's getting ready for the mask.

[Courtney]

Oh, I forgot.

[Chloe]

You look so. You look so pretty.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Chloe]

Oh, I see. Who's in the back?

[Courtney]

I just wanted to say good luck to today, guys, on doing your podcast.

[Chloe]

No, she didn't.

[Courtney]

No, you didn't.

[Chloe]

You didn't know she was doing it.

[Courtney]

Yes, I did. I have a camera crew.

[Chloe]

Oh, productions. That's so nice of them.

[Courtney]

Well, good luck at the Met Ball.

[Chloe]

Good luck at the Met. Thank you.

[Courtney]

We can't wait to see how everyone looks.

[Chloe]

Wait, what time are you going out?

[Courtney]

Imagine being us and just being able to sit home and think, watch everyone on the red carpet. I can't wait.

[Chloe]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And imagine being us, being able to walk down the red carpet. How fun and exciting and all glammed up. I'm gonna be home eating cloud popcorn in some pajamas.

[Chloe]

And some. Yes.

[Courtney]

I'll be drinking 818.

[Chloe]

Oh, hell yeah. See, we have a product for every situation.

[Courtney]

We do. And I'll be wearing my skims with my Kylie Makeup.

[Chloe]

Just take your Lemmy Purr for fun.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Don't forget that Lemmy Purr.

[Chloe]

Okay.

[Courtney]

I love you guys.

[Chloe]

Oh, thank you. I love you.

[Courtney]

Bye. Bye.

[Chloe]

Bye, guys.

[Courtney]

Did you know Lemmy Purse our number one Lemmy?

[Chloe]

Stop. Did you ever think, like, you were gonna dominate with Lemmy like this?

[Courtney]

I kind of did.

[Chloe]

Of course you did. No, that's so you. Of course you did.

[Courtney]

But no, it's obviously such a blessing, and I love that people resonate with it and that it's fun and that.

[Chloe]

It'S the cutest branding. Like all your commercials, I will say your best one was let me sleep with that gorgeous Sleeping Beauty that you had. Yeah, me, Sleeping Beauty. That was me. Let's do a lightning round. Is there anything that really bothers you about me? I'm here to listen.

[Courtney]

I mean, sometimes.

[Chloe]

Yes. Let's go through the list. Go through the list. What sometimes bothers you about.

[Courtney]

Oh, some.

[Chloe]

No, you're going to talk about sending things.

[Courtney]

No. Sometimes you send a really long text message answers, and I'm like, who has the time? First of all, if anyone here has you on text, I'm sure, sure they know what I'm talking about. But you're very thorough in your response, and it's. It's not so, God forbid, I'm thoroughly vague quality. But sometimes I'm like, dude, we get it. If Kim will send something to the chat, you'll be like, kim, this is absolutely the most fantastic thing I've ever seen. And, you know, whatever.

[Chloe]

And I'm so keep it for the private chat.

[Courtney]

No, I'm just like, I want people.

[Chloe]

To feel seen by me and know that I get it and then I do actually paying attention. Unlike you, who won't respond for three weeks.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Chloe]

No, but go on, what else? I feel like this is good for you. It's healthy. Tell me what else.

[Courtney]

I think that's honestly it, Courtney.

[Chloe]

Don't lie. Tell me what else.

[Courtney]

Sometimes you'll just, like, look at me with, like, just judging eyes. Like you'll just be there, like, kind of judging, like, no judging away.

[Chloe]

Okay.

[Courtney]

It's not today's mood. It's a certain mood.

[Chloe]

Okay. I don't feel like maybe I do. I don't know.

[Courtney]

It's just kind of like, oh, yeah. I don't know.

[Chloe]

It's just when I do it next, will you call it out?

[Courtney]

I will.

[Chloe]

So I can be aware.

[Courtney]

I will.

[Chloe]

Because I have a very exciting, expressive face. But I don't mean to do that. And you would think I've had a lot of Botox, and it still just really shines on through.

[Courtney]

So I don't do Botox, and it's.

[Chloe]

Sort of a joke. Courtney.

[Courtney]

Oh, well, I was gonna say we're all gonna die. I feel like the poison third eye is open, and so I feel like my intuitions are very awake.

[Chloe]

Courtney, do you see the judging eyes now?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

Okay.

[Courtney]

They're here with no other facial expression.

[Chloe]

Just the judging eyes. Okay.

[Courtney]

Maybe that's why they stand out so.

[Chloe]

Much, because of the facial moving.

[Courtney]

Just the eyes.

[Chloe]

Oh, my gosh. Do I have big eyes?

[Courtney]

Like no.

[Chloe]

Deer in headlights?

[Courtney]

No, you don't. That's all about you.

[Chloe]

Long text messages, judging eyes. I'm sure there's more.

[Courtney]

It's kind of what I said on the chat the other day. I said, I will always push the envelope or push a little against what you guys are. Not always. If I feel it. And then I'm just gonna give a little thing to maybe sprinkle a little thinking dust.

[Chloe]

Aren't you happy that I added you back to that chat? Because.

[Courtney]

Well, then I said, take me off if you. Right.

[Chloe]

But nobody wanted you off.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Chloe]

I added you back.

[Courtney]

So glad.

[Chloe]

So Courtney loves to leave a chat. And I said, oh, not that fast.

[Courtney]

The chats are staying here. Especially when Rocky was even smaller. The chats are overwhelming. When I'm, like, trying to.

[Chloe]

Kendall hasn't responded in two years. I don't know if she's on it anymore.

[Courtney]

Probably has us restricted.

[Chloe]

She probably changed her number.

[Courtney]

Well, Kylie hasn't responded longer than that.

[Chloe]

So Courtney used to hold up picket signs. She used to make picket signs around the house and protest because we.

[Courtney]

Mom made the same dinner every night for, like, years. And I was like, no more spaghetti. I need something else. Yes.

[Chloe]

Do you understand why she probably made spaghetti every night now?

[Courtney]

I guess. But, I mean, it's. I don't know. And then I would say, I wonder if it was that same pasta, you know, the pasta that she makes. The pasta peppers or the pasta primavera.

[Chloe]

Yeah, that's what it is. Pasta and peppers. Pasta primavera.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I was like, no more pasta primavera, Rob.

[Chloe]

And I love that. Okay, Courtney, I could talk to you all day.

[Courtney]

This was great.

[Chloe]

Good. It was great for me, too.